Difference between revisions of "ISFDB:Community Portal"

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(→‎Joshua T. Calvert / Joshua Tree: Fixer's data entered)
 
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{{Shortcut3|shortcut1=ISFDB:COMMPORTAL|link1=ISFDB:COMMPORTAL|shortcut2=ISFDB:CP|link2=ISFDB:CP|shortcut3=COMMPORTAL|link3=COMMPORTAL}}
  
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== 2 Guys ==
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== Through the Budgerigar ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?392465; shouldn't this be an anthology? --[[User:Username|Username]] 22:46, 1 September 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?925198; While adding LCCN to Jones novel Transplant I noticed this book was added not long ago and while SFE mentions it and even a cover artist there seems to be no evidence of a cover online; can anyone find one? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:06, 3 January 2024 (EST)
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: Yup [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 07:57, 2 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== SF-Encyclopedia ==
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== To the Sound of Freedom II==
  
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Do we have permission to use cover scans from SF-Encyclopedia?  It would be useful for older pubs. [[User:Biomassbob|Bob]] 20:12, 2 September 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal/Archive/Archive53#To_the_Sound_of_Freedom; I came across this record again today; should it get an all-8's date? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:24, 4 January 2024 (EST)
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:It looks like we do, but there are restrictions. See [[ISFDB:Image linking permissions#List of sites granting permission|this page]].  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 21:14, 2 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Ellery or Avram? ==
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== HG Wells and His Critics ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2024873; added info to "And on the Eighth Day" and PDF where I got price from says it's actually by Avram Davidson; he has it as a pseudonym here but none of the Queen books listed show his name. Any old Queen experts here? --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:33, 3 September 2021 (EDT)
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https://archive.org/search?query=wells-and-his-critics; Anyone know a way to tell which of the 3 publishers these copies are from so I can add links? The USA one has no record; maybe it was never actually published by them. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 22:38, 5 January 2024 (EST)
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:According to [https://elleryqueen.us/novels2.html elleryqueen.us] as well as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellery_Queen#Novels Wikipedia] and [http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/davidson_avram sf-encyclopaedia.com], this EQ novel was ghostwritten by Avram Davidson. Manfred Lee may have been involved. Dannay apparently wasn't. [[User:Horzel|Horzel]] 09:43, 12 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Anthology Discovery ==
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== Top Science Fiction ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?769422; I was fixing/adding info for Gahan Wilson, and this book, which was wrongly entered as a collection here, is actually an anthology; I fixed what I could, but searching for the word copyright shows 2 pages worth of poems, some by big names, so so, meone with an account who can read the whole book can enter individual poems and page #'s if they wish. --[[User:Username|Username]] 08:21, 5 September 2021 (EDT)
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https://archive.org/search?query=pachter-josh+top&sort=-addeddate; Someone added intros to this anthology recently, I added archived link long ago, just noticed a Spanish-language edition, La crema de la ciencia ficción, was upped to Archive.org in 2013 in case anyone fluent wants to enter that. EDIT: From the same publisher is La Crema del crimen, https://archive.org/search?query=crema-del-crimen, which includes a few stories from ISFDB judging by back cover. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:40, 6 January 2024 (EST)
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:Thanks for finding this! I corrected the entry. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 05:45, 7 September 2021 (EDT)
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:I will add the Spanish one. What the heck. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 13:12, 6 January 2024 (EST)
  
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:: I'm just going to go ahead and delete what's in the contents now, because none of them are poems; they're actually chapter headings and the actual poems are by other authors, with Moore just being 1 of the editors, although checking now I see the first poem under the Queer and Eerie chapter is signed L.M. so maybe she contributed a poem to each chapter, too. Whoever entered this here originally seemed very confused about what it is, and edit history shows no names, so maybe it was entered by 1 of the robots years ago, with the wrong info coming from some other site, but now that I found there's a copy on the Archive individual poems can be entered if anyone wants to do that. It will require someone with an account because it only shows a limited preview, which makes entering dozens of poems and their page numbers tough, especially since most or all of them are reprints, so some importing of poems already on ISFDB will be necessary, too. UPDATE: I found out there's an index of authors on the last page, 64, which shows there's more than 40 poems by nearly 30 authors. Turns out Ms. Moore only has that 1 poem, so I got the ball rolling by entering it here. --[[User:Username|Username]] 07:01, 7 September 2021 (EDT)--[[User:Username|Username]] 06:42, 7 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Pachter ==
  
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::: Fixer and the other automatically adding tasks don't enter the contents, so that must have been done by an editor; I already added the other editor, who was forgotten upon entering. Thanks for your work! By the way, I have deleted the initial publication (after cloning it), it wasn't primary verified: the links also were faulty. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 12:23, 7 September 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1914279; Josh Pachter is credited as "with" on title page of 2015 English edition on Archive.org. Should he be added as co-author? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:21, 6 January 2024 (EST)
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:I didn't check the Archive.org copy, but the Look Inside on Amazon shows that "with" citation, but then on the copyright page it says the English translation is copyright 2015 Dhooge and Pachter. There is also a copyright 2014 for Dhooge and the original publisher.  I interpret that to mean Pachter's role was (co-?)translator.  I found Pachter's [http://www.joshpachter.com/bib/bibliography.html bibliography page], and this listed in the "Translations" section.  But just to avoid having anything be too clear, he also has [http://www.joshpachter.com/bib/bib.styx.html this], where he talks about previously translating another Dhooge work and being asked to "collaborate on an American version" of this one.  So does that mean this isn't a translation but is actually a major revision?  Dunno.  Given that Pachter only takes credit for translating it, I think noting him as translator and documenting the "with" citation and the copyright statements (could throw in the Pachter site references as a bonus) should be sufficient. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 13:30, 6 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Prophecy Editions ==
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== Star Gors ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?998067; There's only 1 edition on ISFDB of this novelization of the 1979 GIANT MUTANT GRIZZLY film, but note says it's a 4th printing. Checking Open Library, they have the original which has a date 4 months earlier than the one here, with a totally different cover, so I fixed the date. Also, there's a British edition from Mayflower that says "date unknown" with a cover which seems to be trying to recreate the poster, while the other Mayflower edition says 1979 but looking at the preview it's actually from 1982 and mentions it was reprinted twice, plus it has a cheap cover which looks like a stock photo but actually has a cover credit on the back for someone who has no other credits here. So there are lots of editions that can be added, and I wouldn't doubt that some have different covers, plus who knows how many foreign covers there are. Maybe some of them have a drawing or photo of the GIANT MUTANT GRIZZLY. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:02, 6 September 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5851689; I was adding links and adding/fixing other stuff in some Gor editions, mostly UK Star PB, when I noticed an artist's signature for Players of Gor, Star edition, is on the cover but ISFDB had no credit. I tried several names I thought it could be and finally got Tony Masero who, as far as I can tell, is credited exactly once on the entire net for doing this cover, an AbeBooks/Biblio seller's description, but AbeBooks show the wrong (Daw Books) cover and Biblio's scan of the right cover is much too small to see the signature clearly. So I think I got a rare one. As can be seen here, [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?USE_1=pub_title&O_1=exact&TERM_1=&C=AND&USE_2=pub_publisher&O_2=exact&TERM_2=star&USE_3=pub_title&O_3=contains&TERM_3=of+gor&USE_4=pub_title&O_4=exact&TERM_4=&USE_5=pub_title&O_5=exact&TERM_5=&USE_6=pub_title&O_6=exact&TERM_6=&USE_7=pub_title&O_7=exact&TERM_7=&USE_8=pub_title&O_8=exact&TERM_8=&USE_9=pub_title&O_9=exact&TERM_9=&USE_10=pub_title&O_10=exact&TERM_10=&ORDERBY=pub_year&ACTION=query&START=0&TYPE=Publication], there are 5 other Star editions with no cover credit; if anyone can find a signature on any of them, beat me to it and enter them yourselves. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 21:49, 6 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Author Award Bibliography tweaks ==
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== Night Mayor Cover Art ==
  
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The way the Author Award Bibliography page selects and sorts title-based awards has been changed. The most noticeable change is that awards and nominations are now sorted by:
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?474; I noticed that the cover art for the original UK HC and the US C&G HC, which is the same, is credited to 2 different artists here. It's easy to find photos of the back flap of US online which does say design by Roy Colmer but of the several eBay sellers who offer the UK none thought to show the back flap. There are many C&G Colmer design credits online so I'm thinking Kemp did the art and US just didn't credit him, only their designer. So should we make C&G artist Jon Kemp with a note about him not being credited? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:11, 10 January 2024 (EST)
  
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* award year
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:I have the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?44644 UK hc of Kim Newman / The Night Mayor]. The rear flap of the dust jacket states: "Jacket Illustration: Jon Kemp" and "Jacket Design: Bostock & Pollitt Ltd." [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:44, 18 January 2024 (EST)
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* award title
 
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* award level (1-N with nominations treated as "9"s)
 
  
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We also have a new cleanup report in the "Awards" section. It looks for title-based award records whose linked titles have different authors compared to the authors that existed at the time the award was entered. In most cases it's harmless because the current version of the award display/sorting software always uses the title and the authors of the title record. However, in the past some parts of the ISFDB software used the author names as they were originally entered, which created an opportunity for title-based award records and their linked title records to diverge. This cleanup report will help identify these problems once the data is populated tomorrow morning. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:19, 7 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Darrah Chavey's Passing ==
  
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== Open Library linking template for use in Notes missing? ==
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I was saddened to read this morning of [[User:Chavey|Chavey]]'s passing in [https://file770.com/pixel-scroll-1-10-24-tom-swift-and-his-scrolling-pixels/ File 770] (Number 7 in the Pixel Scroll).  It was always a pleasure to work with him here and he will be missed.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 06:49, 11 January 2024 (EST)
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:I replaced link on his page with an updated one; also, while adding a link to the issue of the zine, Aurora, where his Walton essays appeared I discovered that most issues of Aurora and its predecessor Janus are on Archive.org, he PV most (all?) of them, but some have full contents while others have nothing. I imported a few poems from Robert Frazier, Steven M. Tymon, etc. but there's a ton of other book reviews and articles and stuff for anyone who's interested. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:15, 11 January 2024 (EST)
  
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If there is no Open Library linking template, can we get one? [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 07:49, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
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:: Sad news indeed. He had a heart attack a few years ago and has been less active since then, but he was only 69, so it was unexpected. Thanks for updating his User and Talk pages. I have updated user rights on his account. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 23:11, 12 January 2024 (EST)
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:Rtrace, thanks for letting us all know. I echo your sentiments. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:47, 13 January 2024 (EST)
  
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: It looks like the following supported External Identifier types do not have matching templates:
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== Barn Owl ==
  
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:* Goodreads
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?4296; I made an edit for City of Hermits long ago and today added some more stuff; I think this Barn Owl is not the same as the other that published much later. Ann Jungman who wrote a few of the later ones has a Wiki page where it says she founded Barn Owl in 1999 so I think the 1983 one should get a USA or California or something added to it. Whoever wrote the note about Frances Lincoln here seems to have conflated the 2 publishers; the England location probably belongs with the later publisher. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 08:27, 11 January 2024 (EST)
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:* Open Library
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:I separated out [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?4296 Barn Owl Books (UK)] and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?83339 Barn Owl Books (USA)] based on the ISBN's. I also updated the notes for Barn Owl Books (UK) based on [https://www.thebookseller.com/news/frances-lincoln-acquires-barn-owl this article]. When untangling publishers, the [https://grp.isbn-international.org/ Global Register of Publishers] can be of help. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 09:11, 13 January 2024 (EST)
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:* COPAC
 
  
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: Unless there is a reason for these exceptions, we should presumably synchronize them. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 09:21, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Pat Frank Title ==
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:: Can't think of any reason to exclude them. They may not be used often, but why not have them so we can use them if we do? Regards, [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 10:27, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
 
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::: Probably noone remembered to ask for them and it slipped the developer's mind to add them. No cookies for the developer tonight! ;) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:20, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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(unindent) "Goodreads" and "OpenLibrary" templates have been added -- see [[Help:Using Templates and HTML in Note Fields]].
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5856366; I added cover image long ago; just came across archived copy which was there years before my edit so I'm not sure why I didn't add it back then but I did now and also added dash in title, H-Bomb, but I noticed there's another part of the title that people can't decide on. Mhhutchins entered it with 3 dots but title page has one GIANT dot while facing page has long dash and LOC/WorldCat has comma. So what's the consensus? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:44, 11 January 2024 (EST)
  
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COPAC, alas, is no more. It looks like its partial successor, [https://discover.libraryhub.jisc.ac.uk/about/ Library Hub Discover], doesn't have stable IDs which we could use as External IDs. We could still link to them using ISBNs, although it's not as precise. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:31, 12 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Sue Robinson ==
  
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== Balzac ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?16675; I added archived link and a few other things to the HC of Amendment; author is a respected American newsperson. She should be differed from the Australian author. 1992 story in Weird Tales may be by either of them or another person since there's no bio in that issue. Also, does anyone own Amendment PB? It has nice cover art but there's no back cover photo online where I assume the artist would be credited. I see some weird blocks in the lower right, P and another letter, maybe initials or maybe just part of the art. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:10, 11 January 2024 (EST)
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:I separated out ''The Amendment'' to {{A|Sue Robinson (I)|373246}}. The author blurb for ''The Amendment'' does not align with the bio for the more prominent newspaper reporter of the same name, nor does that person list ''The Amendment'' as one of their works on their personal or faculty website. So probably two different reporters with same name. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 09:55, 13 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?24944; Whenever I see a non-genre anthology with a note saying only titles already in the database were entered I double-check because some are often missed; in this case, "My Last Duchess" by Robert Browning wasn't entered so I added it. More importantly, there's a 50-page story by Honore de Balzac titled "The Succubus" which turns out to also be on ISFDB; it has an 1837 date as "Le succube" but only book it appears in on ISFDB is a 1978 German horror anthology as "Der Succubus". I don't like to mess with the foreign titles because I can barely handle English, but if anyone wants to add it and variant or merge it's on Archive.org; https://archive.org/details/onceagainstlaw00tenn. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:10, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Peter Goodfellow ==
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:Likely in this case the missig titles were only introduced after the anthology was added (in 2009!), the German Balzac certainly was. But thanks for the hint! [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 12:03, 11 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== how to add preexisting title to collection? ==
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http://petergoodfellow.com/index.php/2-uncategorised/18-misc2; I added a few credits for this artist but the last one has me stumped because the 1992 edition had the same cover as the last image here, http://petergoodfellow.com/index.php/2-uncategorised/18-misc2, but that was wrong because archived copy has the same Posen cover as the later printing on ISFDB. Goodfellow cover has an M for Mammoth so was it an earlier or later edition and why can't I find the original Methuen cover anywhere? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:54, 12 January 2024 (EST)
  
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Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I can't find it in the first few archive pages.
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== French Swastika ==
  
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I'm trying to add preexisting short stories to a collection. So far I've been using the "Add Title" button, adding in a new short story, then later merging the new title with the preexisting one. What's a more streamlined way without having to merge titles?
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5857839; French speakers, I made my usual shaky attempt at entering a foreign-language edition but I felt a book of such fame probably deserved it; after approval if anyone cares to look it over I'm sure it can be improved. I also made a follow-up edit changing date of French variant to a year earlier to match the date of this book. Also, those Feminist Press editions, https://archive.org/search?query=swastika-night&sort=-addeddate&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22, are a mess, the one with the white cover matches the UK Lawrence & Wishart edition's cover but has the info of the '85 Feminist edition, while the other 2 with the face on the cover either a) have no price on the back and totally different back cover text but copyright page is the same or b) are a 4th printing from 2003, I think, with cover info on copyright page the '85 edition doesn't have and a missing back cover so no way to tell what was on there. If anyone cares to figure all that out. For some reason the French edition I mentioned above is in English according to Archive.org which is obviously wrong. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:59, 12 January 2024 (EST)
  
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Also, is there a way to search the archives without going to individual pages?
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== UK Omni ==
  
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Thanks!
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https://fantlab.ru/edition356174; I added archived links to the 6 volumes of Best of Omni and noticed FantLab has a photo of #6 with a UK price on it in case anyone knows more about that; maybe all 6 were published there but, if so, none are on ISFDB. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:23, 14 January 2024 (EST)
  
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:First to your second question: What exactly do you mean with 'archives'? If you search for a specific title you may use the 'Search the database' or the advanced search.
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== Tiret-Bognet ==
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:Second, to your first problem: It's quite easy to add a pre-existing title to a publication (for example one of a collection). Just use 'Import Content' from the 'Editing Tools' on the left. If you'd find that Vonnegut's [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?41335 Harrison Bergeron] is missing in one of his collections, you'd just have to enter the title id # 41335 in the lower section of the form that was opened after clicking on 'Import Content'. (If you'd like to import many stories from one existing source, you may use the upper section). Hope that helps, [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 16:06, 11 September 2021 (EDT)
 
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::If by searching the archives you mean searching the archives of "ISFDB:Community Portal" then I don't think that's possible with the current wiki settings (requires a different search extension). /[[User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 16:52, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Brite Question ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=bognet&type=Name; same Verne illustrator, same book in different languages, one should be parent and maybe some of the art needs merging, Holmesd worked on many of these Verne books so he'd probably know. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?92472; I've been adding/fixing a lot of stuff for Dell's Abyss line of the 90's, and there's something weird I found; Poppy Z. Brite published a collection called Wormwood which has a January 1996 date, as can be seen in the Archive.org copy. However, there's a story titled "Wormwood" in Brite's record which has a 1995 date, a nomination for an IHG award, and nothing else. Here's what I think: the story "His Mouth Will Taste of Wormwood" came out in 1990 and was collected in a small-press collection in 1993, Swamp Foetus, which was retitled after the 1990 story for a mini-collection from Penguin in 1994, and then was reprinted in Wormwood; that collection should be nominated for the 1996 IHG (it probably appeared in late December which would explain being nominated for a 1996 award). Anyone know more? --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:41, 12 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Server maintenance 2024-01-15 at 3pm EST ==
  
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== Hale Western? ==
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The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance on 2024-01-15 (today) between 3pm and 3:10pm EST. The database and the Wiki will be unavailable. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:09, 15 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?278545; cover looks like a Western, https://www.amazon.com/Highland-Vengeance-Archie-Venters/dp/0709169604. Probably should be deleted. --[[User:Username|Username]] 00:21, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
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: The server is back up. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:06, 15 January 2024 (EST)
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:I don't think it's a Western. It doesn't look like one to me (and I have a lot of them). [https://www.fantasticfiction.com/v/archie-venters/highland-vengeance.htm Fantastic Fiction] has it listed as science fiction. I can't find any reviews of it, and Amazon doesn't give any description. In fact, I can find practically nothing about the author except [https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12327516.archie-venters/ this obituary] and [http://www.classiccrimefiction.com/archie-venters.htm this very brief bio]. Based on that, it appears he wrote mysteries and/or crime fiction. That doesn't mean this one isn't both science fiction ''and'' a mystery (the cover says "mystery" to me). His books seem to be very hard to find, too, so getting a copy of this one would be difficult. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 11:26, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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:: Note by another editor in Highland Vengeance's record mentioned the Western thing, and since it doesn't have the usual Hale SF logo on the cover whatever it is it's probably not SF. Maybe someone here will have a copy and clear this up. UPDATE: https://archive.org/details/deathbelowzero0000vent; picture of author on back cover. No sense adding info to his record because his 1 book on ISFDB will probably be gone soon. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:05, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
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== N. Katerli ==
  
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::: It might not be straight science fiction, but any science fictional element in it would qualify the novel to be indexed into our database, I'd think. We really should wait for somebody having read it, or a competent review. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 12:47, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=katerli&type=Name; I found a huge (380+ pages) thread on FantLab's message boards with people who have died, many of which were never entered on ISFDB (not all genre, though, some footballers and other non-genre people are included, too) and while adding many dates and photos I came across Katerli; I added Wiki link, day of death, and photo to Nina's record but is that other spelling the same person? If so, some variant would probably be needed. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:25, 17 January 2024 (EST)
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:It's very possible, given how things get romanized from Eastern European languages. Perhaps one of our Eastern European language people can do a little digging? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:30, 17 January 2024 (EST)
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::Looking into it a bit myself, I'm 100% sure they are the same person. Working on connecting them. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:57, 17 January 2024 (EST)
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::Okay, everything is [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?373565 here], now. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:27, 17 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Standard naming of synopsis ==
+
::: Thanks for working on her stories. I have added dates and updated the author record. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 21:51, 17 January 2024 (EST)
  
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Hi all. Have been adding some of the publications in my bookshelf and came across some which included a synopsis of an earlier books in a series. I added it to the contents but have in retrospect gotten a bit unsure about how these should be named (when the name is just that of the earlier book). I went for ''TITLE (synopsis)'' but I've also seen ''TITLE Synopsis'', ''Synopsis of "TITLE"'' or ''Synopsis (TITLE)''. By contrast for excerpts there is a clear rule stated in [[Template:TitleFields:Title]].
+
== Terry Venables ==
−
Mainly thought I'd ask for the preference her since it affects which name I keep after merging two synopses. /[[User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 17:13, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Author Award Bibliography page tweaked ==
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5861442; Is this the famous footballer (or soccer, as we Yanks call it)? There seem to be a lot of photos of him but some of them look like a different person so just making sure this is the right guy (he wrote some novels including Bornless Keeper which is on ISFDB but online info seems to suggest he didn't actually write any of it, Gordon Williams did). --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:44, 17 January 2024 (EST)
  
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The Author Award Bibliography page has been tweaked to display translation languages -- see [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/eaw.cgi?166136 Stanisław Lem]'s Awards page for an example. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:58, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
+
: Yes, things like that do happen: there are several titles in the database for which it is doubtful if the featured prominent author did actually write them; and so, jugig from the photo and the theme of the listed title it is '''the''' Terry Venables. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] ([[User talk:Stonecreek|talk]]) 07:38, 18 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::I can confirm that the photo in your submission is indeed of the English footballer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Venables Terry Venables]. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:42, 18 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
== 2 new External IDs and templates added for the National Library of Sweden ==
+
== Alchemy Magazine ==
  
−
Two new External IDs have been added for the Libris catalog of National Library of Sweden. We need 2 of them because the old catalog (Libris) and the new catalog (Libris XL) use different IDs.
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?35135; Luminist.org has a lot of magazines not on Archive.org and while replacing cover and adding link to Alchemy #2 I noticed all 3 issues have a different format, TP/unknown/pulp. Those who know about such things may want to adjust those since I'm assuming they all should be the same format. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 01:11, 18 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
See [[Help:Using Templates and HTML in Note Fields]] for the two matching Notes templates, "Libris" and "Libris-XL". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:02, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
+
== Dinotopia Digest Novels ==
  
−
== West's Malicia ==
+
I just made about 20 edits for this series (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5862661 through https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5862859) and as usual with series books it's a nightmare; I think I did as much as I could with what's available (oddly, only 1 book, Survive!, didn't have its original Random House edition entered on ISFDB so I had to scrounge up a copy on Google Books to enter info from). I think only one thing may raise questions and that's this, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2230051, where an editor here in 2017 entered James Gurney as cover artist but even though he's mentioned on all copyright pages because he's the creator/owner of Dinotopia it was actually Michael Welply who did all the covers. Problem is after I removed cover credit (I didn't enter Welply because while it does say that in archived 3rd printing copy there are some 1st printings of books in the series that misspelled it as Welpley and then corrected that in later printings) I noticed the nomination for best cover in the art record. So I don't know what to make of that; was Gurney nominated because he's the creator or did someone make a mistake and not nominate the real artist, Welply? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:58, 18 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?14229; first 4 stories were all in his 1961 mainstream collection Call Out the Malicia, I think, but there's many questions. "Chanceyville" comes from Shock magazine, so is a reprint, and "The Fiesta..." has a note here saying it came from the 1961 collection and has a different date than that of the F&SF where it was reprinted, so that makes sense; however, "George" has the same 1961 date as the F&SF where it was reprinted and "Gladys's Gregory" has the 1963 date of the F&SF where it was reprinted, which are both wrong. Also, the page count seems to be very different for the original Heinemann vs. Dutton edition, cover has same artwork but different colors (red for British, green for American), and titles seem to be different for a few stories, with the contents of Dutton on Worldcat listing "TOWN OF Chanceyville" and "Gladys's Gregory (A REPORT)". I can't find a photo of any edition's contents page, and Open Library not only includes the above 2 editions but 1 they claim is in French (!) and that's the 1 that has a Worldcat link. It's also possible some of the other stories might be genre, too. So both editions would require checking a physical copy to verify lots of info and the differences between editions. Maybe some readers will have them and respond here so at least 1 edition can be added to ISFDB. --[[User:Username|Username]] 17:27, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
+
== Pratchett's Eric - converting into novella? ==
  
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== Simon? ==
+
I did a word count on a digital version of [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1832 Eric], and it's around 35000 words, i.e. clearly a novella. Comments on the title and various publication records point out how unusually short it is. [http://www.locusmag.com/index/b381.htm Locus] calls the first edition a novella, but later editions a novel. I think the novella classification is correct, but am hesitant in converting such a high-profile title. Any opinions? [[User:TerokNor|TerokNor]] ([[User talk:TerokNor|talk]]) 08:01, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?322963; http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?96369; added page numbers to couple of huge old anthologies and this name is spelled with quotes and without, which makes 2 separate records; also, I don't believe those Lovecraft books in the Simon record are by the same person. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:16, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
+
: My electronic copy contains 34.2K words, so it's a novella. That said, I wonder about Locus changing its classification after the first edition. Is there any indication that later editions may have been longer? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 11:43, 19 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:: I can find no indication of there being different editions of the text. I noticed however that after the original illustrated edition (which was billed "A Discworld Story"), it usually says "A Discworld Novel" on the covers, so Locus might have just gone with that. [[User:TerokNor|TerokNor]] ([[User talk:TerokNor|talk]]) 13:59, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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:Once again thanks for finding this erroneous ordering! I have dealt with them by assigning the 1936 titles to 'Simon': it may very well be that they weren't eligible for ISFDB in the first place, being part of publications that seem - at least in part - non-genre ones (and so these stories may also turn out to be that. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 10:28, 16 September 2021 (EDT)
+
:::: It sounds like it's a novella whose subtitle (but not the word count) was changed in later editions. I suggest we wait for other editors to share their thoughts before we change the type from NOVEL to SHORTFICTION. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:49, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== New cleanup report for the National Library of Sweden ==
+
:::I added an Archive.org link in a PENDING edit to The Illustrated Eric, 2010 Gollancz HC, so that may help with the counting; page count said 144 but it is actually 131. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:26, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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A new cleanup report, [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?299 Publications with Swedish Titles with no Libris XL ID], has been deployed. The data will become available tomorrow morning. This is cleanup report #300 :-) [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:21, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
+
:::: I have approved the submission that corrected the page count and updated the Note field to indicate where the corrected page count comes from. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:49, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== COPAC retirement and partial replacement ==
+
::::: (Chime) Not surprised, don't care, go ahead. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] ([[User talk:Holmesd|talk]]) 21:26, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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As [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal#Open_Library_linking_template_for_use_in_Notes_missing.3F previously discussed], the UK/Irish union catalog COPAC was retired some months ago. Its replacement, [https://discover.libraryhub.jisc.ac.uk/ Library Hub Discover], doesn't recognize COPAC IDs and, as far as I can tell, doesn't have permanent IDs of its own, at least at this time.
+
(unindent) Hearing no objection, I have left a message on TerokNor's Talk page asking him to proceed with the proposed changes. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:38, 24 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:Thank you. I have submitted the first edit to begin the process. [[User:TerokNor|TerokNor]] ([[User talk:TerokNor|talk]]) 05:19, 2 February 2024 (EST)
  
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I have changed the name of the ISBN-based link in the navigation bar from "COPAC" and "Library Hub Discover" and added the word "(defunct)" to the name of COPAC's External ID Type. AT first I considered removing COPAC External IDs, but the mere fact of their existence is informative -- it indicates that the publication's existence was confirmed at some point in he past. Besides, it's possible that Library Hub Discover, which clearly tries to be backwards compatible with COPAC, may start supporting these IDs again. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:00, 16 September 2021 (EDT)
+
== Late Mods ==
  
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== Barry Pain ==
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I had a thought while adding FantLab ID to a PV Brian Lumley book today; is there a way to remove the necessity of adding a note to the mod about what changes you made if the mod is deceased? There have been several mod losses recently, most of whom PV countless books, so it would save time to not have to write anything if the only PV's are ones who are not going to read those notes. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:23, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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I've been adding/fixing a lot of stuff for Pain's books, and got stumped by this one, https://richarddalbyslibrary.com/collections/all/products/barry-pain-more-stories-t-werner-laurie-1930. This, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?586806, says 2 old novels and 2 apparently new stories are included, but that Canadian Canoe is puzzling, since it seems to be a reprint of Pain's 1891 collection, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?552605, not a short story, but doesn't separate Canadian Canoe and Nine Muses into separate stories (at least on contents page) but does include the last 3 stories separately. Maybe Nine Muses was published in a separate edition not on ISFDB, and then it and Canadian Canoe could be added to More Stories as collections. Because it's a 1930 collection it's not in public domain and there's no copy on Archive.org. I'm no Pain expert, so anyone who knows more can reply here. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:21, 16 September 2021 (EDT)
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: I think there are two sides to this issue.
  
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: I found a copy of More Stories on Archive.org from The Public Library of India, but it ends on p. 238 so is likely part of a multi-volume set. Got a couple of page numbers from it (had to search for story titles because the contents page is blindingly bright and the numbers are unreadable). --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:33, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
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: The first one is technical, i.e. whether it would be possible to modify the software to check each primary verifier's Talk page to see if it starts with the "Deceased user" template. The short answer is "Yes, it would be possible, although it would also make our core software more closely intertwined with the Wiki software, which may become a minor nuisance during the next Wiki upgrade".
  
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== Online Publication Dates ==
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: The second one is functional, i.e. whether making this kind of change would be desirable. I am not sure it would. It would save some keystrokes, but there is value to having more detailed Edit History for primary verified publications even if their verifiers are no longer available. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:42, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5085457; I've been adding more horror fiction only found on old archived sites, and I have a question: this story by Moore has a 2016 date on ISFDB as if it's original to the collection it appears in, online info mentions it was in Moore's super-rare Slices collection from the mid-2000s, but it actually came from the horror site Stillwaters Journal, which was an online arm of Marietta Publishing (the editors also edited Warfear from Marietta). Which date should be used? That's a significant gap of more than 15 years! --[[User:Username|Username]] 17:09, 16 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Moll/Head Virgin Planet ==
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:The Amazon.com Look inside for [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?741915 This Is Halloween] shows a copyright date of 1994 for [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2636645 Harvest Moon]. Hope you don't mind a non moderator answering. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 17:19, 16 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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::Wow, man, that's some info you found, because turns out this story predates anything above and actually was published in 1994 by Pumpkin Patch, a Marietta publisher, possibly related to the publisher named Marietta. So I'll change date to 1994, but really that rare publication should also be entered, too. I'm not even going to ask if anyone has a copy because I know the answer, so I'll try to dig up enough info to make it worthwhile to enter it. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:21, 16 September 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5864268; I added cover and prices but I think publisher should be changed to Wyndham, either Star or Tandem or Target which are all on ISFDB related to Wyndham, since their logo is on front and back covers, https://www.ebay.com/itm/143869122299. The other issue is the cover is the same Charles Moll art as earlier US paperbacks; Michael Head was a designer with 1 other ISFDB credit that notes say is just a photo and a Mike Head I noted in an edit earlier today as the designer for Piatkus edition of M. Bingley's Waiting Darkness did a cover which is just a photo of a fist. So where Head credit came from for Virgin Planet I don't know but I think Moll credit should replace it. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:09, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== How much of Jules Verne is genre? ==
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== One Hundred Years of Science Fiction ==
  
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Jules Verne has been called the Father of Science Fiction, and did indeed write a number of classic SF stories like  [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?7389 De la Terre à la Lune] (From the Earth to the Moon), [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2722043 La journée d'un journaliste américain en 2890] (The Day of an American Journalist in 2889) and [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?7388 Voyage au centre de la terre] (Journey to the Center of the Earth). However, many of his lesser known works (e.g. [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?7386], [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?7395], [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?7399]) and even one well-known one [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?7396] seem to lack any speculative elements. The [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Policy ISFDB Policy] gives latitude to pre-1800 works, but Jules Verne went from the 1860's to 1900's. Without arguing particulars (there are too many), what is the thinking regarding the following: ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 22:54, 16 September 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5864915; I'm guessing this Gollancz edition is rare judging by the fact there's almost no photos of the cover online. As can be seen in my edit, notes about year (probably very old and entered by the long-gone Bluesman) are obsolete now because the year is on the title page. Also, the price was entered by Mellotronman from his copy but for a 1969 UK book the pre-decimal price should be entered so that's what I did; problem is in his note to mod in edit history he says other price is 32s, not 30. So if he's still around he may want to PV and add a note about the alternate price (I'm assuming the archived copy's flap is badly framed which is why the other price is not visible) and delete year notes and add a new one saying the date is on the title page. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:31, 20 January 2024 (EST)
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:
+
:It doesn't help that two different printings share the same ISBN. Mine says 1970 on the front of the title page and 'second impression 1970' on the back of the same page. The price is most definitely listed on the dust jacket as '32s', an unusual way of writing 'shillings'. The more usual way would be '32/-'. Perhaps the first impression was 30s and the second 32? [[User:Mellotronman|Mellotronman]] ([[User talk:Mellotronman|talk]]) 16:55, 20 January 2024 (EST)
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1 Giving a blanket genre to his works vs. assessing each title individually
+
::OK, I think it makes sense now, copy on Archive.org is '69 1st pr. with just s-price while your 1970 2nd pr. has both s-price and pounds. So after my edit is approved you may want to clone it and enter yours with new date and prices and PV it, too. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:07, 20 January 2024 (EST)
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: one argument for the blanket approach is they are (mostly) part of the famous Extraordinary Voyage series, and hence linked. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 22:54, 16 September 2021 (EDT)
 
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:
 
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2 To what standard would we hold any title?
 
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:
 
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3 What would be the threshold for keeping the non-genre works?
 
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:
 
  
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== Foreign Trek ==
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== Tom Palmer ==
  
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Hello German readers. I found a book called Cap'n Beckmessers Führer durch Star Trek - Die Classic Serie, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1832273, which is a reprint of a 1994 American edition. Only copy I can find on Amazon shows cover pretty clearly except for the GIANT SPOTLIGHT in the middle so I added it here. There's a nice cover on Goodreads, but searching further there's also a cover on booklocker.de and memory-alpha.fandom.com. Thing is that none of them show back cover, while the Amazon page shows back cover in a separate photo but there's a GIANT STICKER covering up barcode and probably other info, too. So rather than trying to choose which of the non-Amazon covers is the best and uploading it here, maybe someone who owns a copy can upload a cover scan which shows the entire cover, front and back, and possibly make ISFDB the only site on the web which shows the entire cover. --[[User:Username|Username]] 16:26, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?98449; 2 or 3 different Palmers here; novels are by the guy pictured but the art credits are by the recently deceased (2022) famous comic artist who had a still-online site, tompalmerillustration, and a Wiki page as Tom Palmer (comics); the poem, judging by the bio at the archived Aphelion link, is by another likely American Palmer. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 21:58, 20 January 2024 (EST)
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:I have access to a copy of the pub and just uploaded a scan. [[User:Welo|Welo]] 07:57, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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:: Live long and prosper. --[[User:Username|Username]] 08:06, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Lone Star Law ==
  
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== George Evans? ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?80404; Anyone think this should be deleted? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 17:34, 21 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?26438; I added photo and info to his record, but I doubt that story in a British anthology was by him. Anyone have a copy who can check and see if there's a bio which would verify it's a different guy? --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:10, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
+
: The Note field says:
 +
:* Western story anthology. It may have some spec-fic stories, but otherwise, there's no reason for it to be in the database.
 +
: Have we been able to find this anthology's table of contents and determine whether any of the stories are SF? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:23, 24 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::I was able to look at the ToC via the Amazon Look Inside feature for the pb edition (ISBN 978-1982153069) and I don't see anything there that looks like SF. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 15:38, 24 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Boulle Collection ==
+
::: Reading the editor's introductions to each story I noticed that two stories were called "eerie". After reading them, I can confirm that one is an unambiguous ghost story while the other one is an ambiguous "curse" story. I have added them to the publication record and updated Notes. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 22:13, 24 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?37905; Secker had no page #'s so I used Google Books to enter them, but 3 stories didn't get any hits when searching for their titles. Paperback edition includes those 3 as verified by seeing contents page on eBay and copyright page says it's a reprint of the Vanguard edition. Secker's page count is much lower than Vanguard, and notes here say Tuck only lists 9 stories, so I have a feeling they dropped those stories but editor here just imported all stories without verifying that all editions had the same stories. There's nowhere I can find that has a photo of Secker's or Vanguard's contents page, so I ask if anyone here has a copy to check and delete those 3 if needed. Also, Vanguard edition on Google has page #'s that don't match up at all with what's on ISFDB, so that will also need checking. --[[User:Username|Username]] 08:04, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
+
== Recording plagiarized work ==
  
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== Possible rise in Wikipedia vandalism ==
+
A couple of days ago [https://file770.com/pixel-scroll-1-19-24-all-these-pixels-are-someone-elses-fault/ File 770 reported] (item 5) that [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3221864 "After the Flood" by John Kucera] was plagiarised from another author.  I've added a note to that title record, but I'm wondering whether anything else should be done, e.g. making it a variant? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] ([[User talk:ErsatzCulture|talk]]) 01:36, 22 January 2024 (EST)
  
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Please note that there appear to be more cases of Wikipedia vandalism as of late. For example, {{A|Andrea White}}'s article was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrea_White&type=revision&diff=1043410230&oldid=1043399852 recently vandalized] and now includes an incorrect place of birth as well as other biographical details. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 10:11, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
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: Unless the poem uses the same wording I'd think the only thing we can do is to add notes to the title (and likely the publications the plagiat was published in). Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] ([[User talk:Stonecreek|talk]]) 01:32, 22 January 2024 (EST)
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:I'm not sure about a rise in vandalism; Wikipedia has always had a lot of it. I have reverted that page & watch listed it. If you ever see any others, please fell free to ping me directly. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 15:10, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
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:All three of the works "by" this author that are listed on ISFDB appear to have been plagiarized. I've added notes to the title entries as well as the publication entries. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:59, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:: Thanks all! [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] ([[User talk:ErsatzCulture|talk]]) 15:22, 22 January 2024 (EST)
  
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:: Thanks, will do! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:22, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
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:::At some point, we should probably make them variants since (in all the reports I've read) only the title were changed by the plagiarizer. Similar to [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1570478 this one]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:34, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::::I've added the variants for the two I could figure out. Still unsure who originally wrote "[https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3205023 Summer 1993]" and what the original title was. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:15, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:::::How about this one, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2951283? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 16:29, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::::::Looks like it's the same guy per a Google search that brought up [https://eunoiareview.wordpress.com/2023/11/16/fanlight-and-ice/ this] ([https://web.archive.org/web/20240123001032/https://www.silverblade.net/tag/john-siepkes/ archive]), which is the same thing but under his Kucera name. Now to try to figure out who really wrote it. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:06, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::::::Some additional archive links to help us figure out all of this: [https://web.archive.org/web/20230604133528/https://thewildword.com/poetry-john-kucera/ Wild Word], [https://lothlorienpoetryjournal.blogspot.com/2024/01/john-kucera-exposed-as-serial-plagiarist.html Lothlorien Poetry Journal] ([https://web.archive.org/web/20240123004257/https://lothlorienpoetryjournal.blogspot.com/2024/01/john-kucera-exposed-as-serial-plagiarist.html archive]), [https://twitter.com/OneArtPoetry1/status/1747732242581876815 One Art Poetry on X], [https://web.archive.org/web/20230922115703/https://oneartpoetry.com/2023/09/11/two-poems-by-john-kucera/ One Art Poetry], [https://web.archive.org/web/20230530004119/https://www.fictionalcafe.com/spare-parts-poetry-by-john-kucera/ The Fictional Cafe], [https://web.archive.org/web/20240122101438/https://sparksofcalliope.com/2024/01/17/it-was-bound-to-happen-eventually/ Sparks of Calliope] (see also [https://web.archive.org/web/20240123004746/https://sparksofcalliope.com/2023/09/22/two-poems-by-john-kucera/ this page]), [https://issuu.com/newreadermagazine/docs/nrm_issue17_lowres_1_/s/16096176 New Reader Magazine] ([https://web.archive.org/web/20240123005036/https://issuu.com/newreadermagazine/docs/nrm_issue17_lowres_1_/s/16096176 archive]), [https://bsky.app/profile/wnwagner.bsky.social/post/3kj5gwyptla2o Wendy N. Wagner loves pie on BlueSky], and I'll add more later. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:31, 22 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Hell Is Murky ==
+
(unindent) I suspect that the issue of plagiarized works is going to become harder to deal with in the near future. In the past we had to deal with two types of scenarios:
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?279823; added page #'s from Dalby's site, and also changed "Gie Me..." because contents page shows it's not a variant but exactly the same title as original in 1996. Also, "Game of Nine" says "The Game of Nine" on contents page and Mr Raven should have a period after Mr, so anyone who has a copy and can verify "Before I Dee" at story head, The before Game of Nine, and Mr with a period, respond here. UPDATE: Checking online reveals story in Castle Fantastic spells it Gie Me Somethin' Ta Eat on copyright page but To Eat on contents page, so story header for this anthology is needed, too, to find out how this story is titled there and whether these Afore and Before words are actually used. Locusmag.com says Ta Eat Afore for Castle Fantastic, so I'm merging them for the time being unless someone says differently. --[[User:Username|Username]] 13:08, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
+
* word-for-word reprints with the title/credits changed, usually by shady publishers or self-publishers
 +
* more elaborate schemes whose perpetrators plagiarized sections of other authors' works
  
−
:Edit was approved but didn't seem to work, as correct title (as far as I know) is in both books now but there's still a variant that doesn't belong. No sense changing it because not 100% sure which title is used at story head in both books, so will just leave it as is and if and when someone verifies correct titles it can be fixed. --[[User:Username|Username]] 17:37, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
+
The first type is fairly straightforward, but the second type is hard to catch. For example, volumes 29 and 33 in the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?4950 ''Casca'' series] were retroactively removed from the series over allegations of plagiarism in April-June 2013. It happened 3-5 years after their original publication even though the Casca fandom is very active. It's not something that we, bibliographers, can realistically identify on our own.
  
−
== Varma Drama ==
+
Over the last few months I have seen a number of reports of plagiarists using software to scrape Web-published stories, massage them using ChatGPT and put them on Amazon, e.g. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgressionFantasy/comments/18v1d5e/attention_authors_of_rr_there_has_been_a_spree_of/ this episode over the Christmas holidays]. I suspect it's going to be a pain to deal with. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 22:29, 24 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?359469; Someone messed up this record badly, with some wrong names and titles and dates, wrong page count, no price, wrong page # for the stories, etc. What's odd is there's an ID for Open Library which leads to a page with a preview copy of the book, so all of this info could have easily been verified. I fixed a lot, but there may be little things I missed; I think per ISFDB rules the Varney extract should have date of this book, not original date, but others who know for sure can take a look. What's more important is the publisher, Key Porter, is Canadian, so I added a C to the price, but checking further revealed the other 17 books by them on ISFDB mostly have prices entered, all American $ except for 1 £. So they may need a C added, too. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:15, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Bard II ==
  
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== New award - Ignyte ==
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?291859; Wrong cover, it has price and ISBN of earlier printing, I can't find right cover, if anyone else can, can you upload it and replace this one? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:47, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:Also, The First Long Ship (or Longship on some sites) which has no cover online I can find so if it exists and someone can find it that needs uploading, too. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:03, 22 January 2024 (EST)
  
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"Ignyte" is a new [https://theconvention.fiyahlitmag.com/2021/04/22/announcing-the-2021-ignyte-awards-shortlist/ award for speculative fiction]:
+
== Galactic Central Images ==
  
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* The Awards seek to celebrate the vibrancy and diversity of the current and future landscapes of science fiction, fantasy, and horror by recognizing incredible feats in storytelling and outstanding efforts toward inclusivity of the genre.
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5867682; The only other site I can find that has this cover is Camelot Books; I was going to upload it when I thought of checking Philsp and found it hiding there. Is the owner(s) of that site ever going to upgrade to HTTPS? Right-click and "open image in new tab" does show the image but it still would be better if that didn't have to be done. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:43, 22 January 2024 (EST)
  
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According to [http://file770.com/2021-ignyte-awards/ Mike Glyer of File770, who posted a list of winners on 2021-09-19]:
+
: Last I heard, the owner said that he had no plans to upgrade to HTTPS. That said, browser vendors have been making it harder to access HTTP sites, which puts pressure on site owners to upgrade. It remains to be seen how it may affect Galactic Central in the future. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:21, 24 January 2024 (EST)
  
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* The winners were chosen by an open public vote on a shortlist selected by the Ignyte Awards Committee, 15 BIPOC+ voters made up of FIYAHCON staff and previous award winners, of varying genders, sexualities, cultures, disabilities, and locations throughout the world.
+
== German Playboy ==
  
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According to [https://www.jamesmurua.com/ignyte-awards-2021-finalists-announced/ this blog post]:
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?757; While replacing sideways Amazon cover with better straight cover for one of these books I noticed there are 8 or 9 that don't have cover credits (last book was unpublished so likely no cover exists); since most covers in the series were originally on English-language books it's likely the missing ones were, too, so if anyone can recognize the art then artists can be entered and variants can be made. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:08, 24 January 2024 (EST)
  
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* Fiyah is a quarterly speculative fiction magazine that features stories by and about Black people of the African Diaspora based in the USA founded in 2016. The magazine announced that they would host FIYAHCON for Black, Indigenous and People of Colour (BIPOC) with the Ignyte Awards as its centrepiece in 2020.
+
== Brian Ames Title ==
  
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The full list of 2021 nominees is [https://theconvention.fiyahlitmag.com/2021/04/22/announcing-the-2021-ignyte-awards-shortlist/ here].
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?119003; I added a link to a MOTA anthology over a year ago and there's a 2002 story by Brian Ames which editors before me seemed to have trouble deciding how to enter (see extensive title edit history), eventually settling on a symbol; however, in his collection someone entered the title as "grey blob", which is what it actually looks like in the anthology. So the 2 stories are the same and should be merged but what should the title be entered as? This reminds me of that David J. Schow horror story where nobody can ever decide how to enter it and eventually settled on "scribbled graffiti" or this, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?76213, but at least Oates can get away with that because most of her work is pretentious "literary" stuff, anyway. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:22, 24 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:Merged [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2148942 here]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:39, 24 January 2024 (EST)
  
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There doesn't appear to be a dedicated Web site, so the information is kind of scattered across multiple Web sites. Still, it's probably enough to create a new Award Type if we have a volunteer to enter the data. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 10:04, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Duplicate finder -- NOVEL/CHAPBOOK? ==
  
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: If you go ahead and create the award, I'll be glad to take care of it. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 17:59, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
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The "Duplicate Finder" program, which exists in three incarnations -- one for Author pages, one for Title pages and one for Publication pages -- searches for potential duplicate titles and then lets you merge them. Its default mode of operations is "exact", which means that two (or more) titles need to have the exact same spelling as well as the same authors in order to be considered potential duplicates.
  
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:: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/awardtype.cgi?94 Done]. Thanks for volunteering! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 11:44, 23 September 2021 (EDT)
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The "exact" mode also ignores unlikely title type mismatches. For example, if one title record is SHORTFICTION and another one is NOVEL, they won't be flagged as potential duplicates. However, the "exact" mode currently flags NOVEL and CHAPBOOK titles with identical titles and authors as potential duplicates. I am thinking that this is likely more harmful than useful and would like to propose that we change the behavior of the "exact" mode to skip identical NOVEL/CHAPBOOK pairs. Ideas? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:35, 24 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:I agree. As it is currently, we could accidentally merge titles incorrectly. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:40, 24 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::I also agree. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 13:21, 25 January 2024 (EST)
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::: I use that one a lot especially when adding juvenile chapbooks to prolific authors (mainly Fixer's) - because of how Amazon has these, they rarely make it to addPubs and not having the duplicate finder highlight the previously entered novel (a lot of these are stored as novels and need conversion) makes it more likely not to see the other version on the page. So I would rather not lose it... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 18:43, 25 January 2024 (EST)
  
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::: All Done, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 14:25, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
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:::: Let me clarify that the Duplicate Finder's "similar" mode would continue to flag NOVEL, SHORTFICTION and CHAPBOOK titles as potential duplicates after the proposed change. Would it be sufficient for Fixer-originated use cases? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 21:41, 25 January 2024 (EST)
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::::: But we do not have a similar mode in the pubs/titles Duplicate finder. The one I use is the one that triggers when you click on "Check for Duplicate Titles" after a Pub/Title Edit. Which I believe is "exact". If I need to go to the author page every time to run a separate similar mode check, it will add steps. Plus in some of these authors, it will highlight a lot of things which is different from the current case where it is a quick check that finds usually a single match when it does. I can make it work - but it will add to the workflow. One option may be to allow the similar as an option on pub/title duplicate finder - keep the exact as a default but allow a similar to be run with a click how we do it on author page's find duplicates? A separate click which is right there will help.
 +
::::: And this is not just for Fixer usecases - I've needed it when moderating as well often enough in a similar usecase - we have chapbook/novel and a new(ish) member adds the same as the other.
 +
::::: If the proposal is to remove it from the 'Author' exact duplicate finder only with no change for the pub/title duplicate finder, then I am fine with removing it there. But the way the proposal reads, it sounds like we are not going to show it in the default mode in either :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 10:45, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
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:::: Looks good, thanks! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:24, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
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:::::: Thanks for the clarification. I forgot about the fact that the versions of the Duplicate Finder software used on Publication and Title pages do not support "similar" and "aggressive" modes. If memory serves, the reason was performance -- there can be thousands of titles with "similar" spellings where "similar" is defined as an 85% overlap, the current threshold value.
  
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== Phantom Feast ==
+
:::::: It sounds like what we may need is a new Duplicate Finder mode. Something that would be the same as the "exact" mode except that it would also flag identical CHAPBOOK/NOVEL title pairs. It would be made available on all three Duplicate Finder pages.
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?28553; no cover I can find online, 2 copies on Open Library have no external ID's, no nothing. I have a feeling this was never published, but I can't find anywhere that says so. Anyone know? A Sheckley collection from a major mainstream publisher like Holt would certainly have some info online. --[[User:Username|Username]] 16:34, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
+
:::::: If it sounds workable, I can look into what it would take to implement it. I suspect that it should be a fairly straightforward change, but I am not 100% sure. We'll also need to come up with an intuitive name for the new mode. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:11, 26 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::::::: That will work for me. And if you are going to do it, we may think about throwing an anthology/collection/omnibus format mix in the same mode (same usecase essentially - especially around juveniles and novellas previously added as novels). And even poem/shortfiction? Maybe simply pull all the format discrepancy matches out from Exact (requiring a format match in it) and move them to their own type of duplicate finder mode. That will also make it less likely for someone to merge by mistake based on the standard duplicate find.[[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 12:27, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
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:Your feeling seems to be correct! I didn't find nothing also, and set this to unpublished. Thanks for this find!! [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 05:49, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
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:::::::: You could have "type" be an independent modifier applied to any of the three modes. Something like "Match identical types only", on by default. That would also be easy to extend to other criteria (e.g., language) in the future without having a cross product of mode choices. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 14:26, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Rhys/Stall ==
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::::::::: Good point! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:43, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/rhys_jack; while working on Robert Hale books, I found out Jack Rhys published stories as by Michael Stall. The novel The Five Doors was an expansion of a Stall short story. I thought it was unknown info, but turns out it's right there in the SF3 link for Rhys. The next 2 stories by Stall were also in New Writings in SF, but the last 2 weren't, so don't know if they're all the same Michael Stall. I varianted "Five Doors", so if anyone knows more they can do more. --[[User:Username|Username]] 07:57, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
+
(unindent) After experimenting on the development server and paying closer attention when working on the Clean Authors cleanup, I think I have a better appreciation for Annie's concerns. At this point clicking "Check for Duplicate Titles" post-approval is second nature for moderators and self-approvers. When a submission adds a NOVEL publication, it's very helpful to know that a CHAPBOOK pub with the same title already exists in the database, especially if the submitter is a robot. Requiring the approving moderator to click yet another link/button would mess with the workflow.
  
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== Australian Story Title ==
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I suppose we could change the Duplicate Finder logic to ignore CHAPBOOK/NOVEL duplicates by default, but display a yellow warning -- and a link to the more relaxed version of the Duplicate Finder -- if they exist. I am not sure it would be ideal, though. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 11:34, 31 January 2024 (EST)
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: As long as it is a link and not a need to go elsewhere or to go to the author level, that will work for me.
 +
: I'd also want to ask for the anthology/collection/omnibus and the poem/short fiction checks to be added to the chapbook/novel both for the yellow warning and the more relaxed one - both of these happen often enough to be annoying if we lose the ability to see them on the duplicate finder. Unless the plan is to leave these into the default one - in which case, we are fine. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:45, 31 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?10268; Boy reprinted as Torment; dropped 1 story and added 1 new one. I fixed all this from copy of Torment on Archive.org, but 1 story, 15 Globe St., Tarelle, is 15 Globe Street, Tarella in Torment. Online info on Australian sites give both titles, and Tarella is a real place in Australia, so I changed title to Torment's spelling. If anyone has a copy of Boy... and can say different, they can always variant. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:45, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
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:: After thinking some more about this issue, it occurs to me that there may be another way to approach this issue. Currently, most post-approval Web pages display links that let you view/edit the updated/added record or, for some submission types like Make Variant, multiple records. A few post-submission pages also link to the Duplicate Finder or other pages.
  
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== Cover Artist's Various Names ==
+
:: However, there is nothing preventing the post-approval software from quietly checking the status of the added/updated record(s) and displaying appropriate warnings. For example, the post-approval page for NewPubs could run the Duplicate Finder behind the scenes and then display a message like:
 +
::* The added publication record includes a title record with the same title and authors as another title record. Use the Duplicate Finder link above to see the details.
 +
:: This warning message would be easy to implement and moderators would no longer have to worry about forgetting to click "Duplicate Finder" after approving NewPub submissions. Does this sound useful?
 +
:: If we choose to add this warning message, we could still decide to tweak the Duplicate Finder logic later, but I think the message should be implemented first since it changes the workflow. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 16:53, 2 February 2024 (EST)
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::: That will be useful -- I am not sure how many false alerts will show up and how they will be treated (especially from the less experienced moderating users - usually the self-approvers) but other from that, any checks the software can do for me are always welcome. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 14:08, 6 February 2024 (EST)
  
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Beverly Le Barrow, Le Barrow, Beverley Le Barrow, Beverley Lebarrow, Beverley Le Barrow, Beverly Lebarrow. Added Le Barrow to http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2919033, searched for cover artists named Barrow, only people listed above came up, all of which are probably the same person but spelled many different ways. Every book is PV'd except the 1 I added to, so if anyone wants to investigate whether all these names belong together several people will probably need contacting. --[[User:Username|Username]] 00:36, 21 September 2021 (EDT)
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:::: OK, {{FR|1592}}, "Warning after approving NewPub submissions which create potential duplicates", has been created. We'll see how useful it will be. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:48, 6 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Laymon and Woods ==
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=== Duplicate Finder enhancements -- Outcome ===
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12996; found very informative article, https://beta.peakd.com/hive-180164/@modernzorker/untangling-richard-laymons-the-woods-are-dark-1981-1991-and-2008, which details the tangled history of this novel. What stood out to me is that it says Leisure's 2008 edition of the full uncut novel runs much shorter and says it's 215 pages, while ISFDB claims it's FOUR HUNDRED PAGES (no note about where that info came from). The 2009 e-book has same cover and a note on ISFDB saying the Kindle runs 215 pages. So a print copy of the Leisure is needed, which can't be found by me online. Someone here should have a copy since Leisure was a mass-market publisher, so they can correct page count if needed. Other info in that article may prove usable, too. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:28, 21 September 2021 (EDT)
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{{FR|1592}} has been implemented. After approving NewPub/AddPub/ClonePub/EditPub submissions, moderators and self-approvers will now see a yellow warning and a link to the Duplicate Finder if the created/affected publication record contains one (or more) title records which have the same title(s) and author(s) as other title records in the database. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:58, 8 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== New Mervyn Peake Artwork ==
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== Moondust ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?444364; verified it was done by (and plagiarized from) Peake. Mentioning it here in case someone needs to variant it to that 1944 publication, if necessary. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:35, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?22737; I added a whole bunch of edits for Rosemary Harris books and also found a PDF link for her early uncollected story "Hamlin" at Galactic Journey. Looking through their list of PDF's I noticed a Swann link and, thinking it would be a short story, I clicked it and it turned out to be the full original edition of his novel Moondust which has no copies at the usual places like Internet Archive or Luminist. I'm guessing there's more novels hiding in that list but for now I'll just ask if anyone owns the book and wouldn't mind transcribing the text on the last 2 pages and adding it to the record because those are missing in the PDF. I'm not sure what copyright rules are for a 50+-year-old book but I think a page or two would count as an excerpt and wouldn't bother anyone, right? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:43, 25 January 2024 (EST)
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:That can get complicated. Since this was first published in 1968 in the United States, and if it was published with a copyright notice, the copyright expires at the end of 2063 (meaning it becomes public domain on January 1, 2064). If it was published without a copyright notice, since it was published between 1964 and 1977, it is now in the public domain. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Public_domain#When_does_copyright_expire? here] for more details. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:27, 25 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:Looking at the PDF copy from the link you submitted, the copyright notice is very clear on the back of the title page. This means the copyright doesn't expire until 2064, so we shouldn't be linking to a pirated PDF copy. I rejected the link addition. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:30, 25 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::So does that mean that all the 330 or so Luminist.org PDF's currently linked on ISFDB are pirated, too? Because I don't think most of those are public domain; I would know because I'm the one who added most of the links. Has any mod in the history of this site ever gotten a request from anyone to remove a Luminist PDF? I'd be curious to know. When someone pirates something and uploads it, they love to add their name, fake as it may be, to the upload, similar to how computer game crackers decades ago loved to add their names to the crack, usually with some animation and music (which were sometimes better than those in the game itself); believe me, I could easily add hundreds of Internet Archive links to rare books right now except for the fact that the uploaders converted them to crap e-editions with removed page numbers. I don't see anything like that in Moondust so it's likely someone's personal copy they converted to a PDF; it's clearly the original paperback with page numbers and a bookstore sticker on the cover and everything. Since Swann died in 1976 and the last reprint as far as ISFDB (and WorldCat) say was in 1977 I doubt anyone would care if a PDF was linked to here; any serious collector would want a physical copy. My suggestion would be to un-reject it. Barring that, I'll just go ahead and make a note with the address of the PDF but not hot-linked so people know where it is but actually have to paste the URL into the address bar themselves in order to get it. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 17:47, 25 January 2024 (EST)
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:::This guy, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?286234, runs the site. Looks legit to me; he even published a magazine of the same title. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:08, 25 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Help - Undelete ==
+
:::: The question about the status of Luminist-hosted PDF files is an interesting one. I should first note that I became aware of the Luminist Web site back in 2010 when we were given permission to link to Luminist-hosted images. I was under the impression that the files that they host were similar to [https://www.gutenberg.org/help/copyright.html Gutenberg-hosted "copyright-cleared" files], which is why I have been approving their addition for the last few years.
  
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Please, I delete by mistake!
+
::::However, reading the copyright statement on the [http://www.luminist.org/archives/ main Luminist page]:
 +
::::* This collection may contain copyrighted material which has not been specifically authorized for our use. The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) provides for making “fair use” copies of copyrighted materials under certain conditions, including that that the reproduction is not to be used commercially or “for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research.” By accessing files linked to this site you are agreeing to abide by these restrictions. If you do not agree, do not download. If any copyright owner objects to our inclusion of their material on this web site, please do not harass our hosting providers; just contact us with the pertinent information. We will remove contested content promptly upon receipt of legitimate requests. Readers who wish to obtain a permanent copy of any item are encouraged to acquire one from a bookseller of their choice. Readers may contact us for assistance in locating copies for purchase.
 +
:::: I see that they expect their users to download PDF files for "private study, scholarship, or research" purposes and, apparently, not for permanent use. This relies on an interpretation of the [https://copyright.columbia.edu/basics/fair-use.html "fair use" doctrine] which seems a bit too stretchy to me, but I am not an expert in the field. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:09, 25 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:::::OK, sounds good to me, "private study" clearly can mean reading the book and since they're being linked at ISFDB that covers the scholarship/research part. Also, what I took to be a Galactic Journey magazine is just a few random pages from the webzine with a couple of essay links, 1 of which is movie-related and probably doesn't qualify, but there's some Hugo Award nomination so I guess they count; the first entry is totally blank and was actually entered by user "galacticjourney" himself with mods questioning on his page why he entered it since it's a webzine. The site is still running currently and has hundreds of essays, many of which would be suitable for entry here, I'm sure. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:25, 25 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5092758--[[User:Paulotecario|Paulotecario]] 13:50, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
+
:::::: Let me clarify what I meant by "a bit too stretchy". The part of the Copyright Law that they cite -- "for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research" -- doesn't come from the "fair use" clause ([https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 Section 107 of the Copyright Act].) Instead it comes from [https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#108 Section 108, "Reproduction by libraries and archives"]. Section 108 is a lengthy section with a set of provisions that are completely different from the "fair use" provisions in Section 107. It's odd that the Luminist Web site cites Section 108 ("libraries and archives") language to support what they state is a Section 107 ("fair use") exception.
−
: Unrejected and approved :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:05, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== New post-submission yellow warning for "Source" ==
+
:::::: I should add that both Section 107 and Section 108 lawsuits can get complex and technical as we saw during [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachette_v._Internet_Archive Hachette v. Internet Archive] in 2020-2023. My knowledge of these topics is very limited, but hopefully other editors may have more in-depth knowledge and/or relevant experience in this field. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 21:38, 25 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
"New Publication" and "Clone Publication" data entry forms include a "Source of the data" list of radio buttons. The last one says "Other website, later printing/edition or another source (please explain in Publication Note)".
+
::::::: I have started a [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Rules_and_standards_discussions#Linking_to_third_party_Web_pages_--_defining_.22legally_posted.22 Rules and Standards discussion] to see if we can come up with unambiguous rules for linking to third party-hosted texts. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 20:50, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
I have added a yellow warning which warns reviewing moderators if an "Other" submission doesn't have anything entered in the Note field. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:14, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
+
== Reactor?!? ==
  
−
== New Web API - lookup by publication ID ==
+
I was at my awful local public library printing out various articles and short stories for free which is the only positive thing about libraries these days and after my hour was up I realized I forgot to check Tor.com to see if they published any new fiction (horror only, please, no SF or fantasy) so I checked when I got home and got a scary-looking page which made me think a computer virus had finally taken hold of my laptop after not having one for many years but it turns out that Tor apparently has re-named themselves Reactor. Is anyone else aware of this? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 17:08, 26 January 2024 (EST)
 +
: Yes, they announced it a few weeks ago. New site, new name (to differentiate them from the Tor.com publisher), same team, same contents. All the old links to their old site should be forwarding cleanly to the new one. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 17:30, 26 January 2024 (EST)
 +
: And the [https://reactormag.com/tor-com-to-become-reactor-debut-new-site-on-january-23rd/ announcement] and [https://reactormag.com/answering-your-questions-about-tor-coms-change-to-reactor/ Q&A] about it. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 17:31, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
A new way to query the ISFDB system has been added. Developers can now request XML representations of publication records by publication ID -- see [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Web_API#getpub_by_internal_ID.cgi this section of the Web API documentation] for details. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:15, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
+
:: I suspect that the part of the FAQ that is most likely to affect us is this:
 +
::* SFF literature is still the heart of what we do, and that’s our priority. We’ll just also be open to related subjects of interest, from nonfic to romantasy, pirates to gardening, and so on.
 +
:: So it looks like they will have more non-genre content going forward, but they expect to remain primarily SF-oriented for the foreseeable future. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:23, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Black/Negro ==
+
== Chinese Godzilla? ==
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?850944; Spanish speakers, I think this may be a Spanish-language edition of Altman's Black Christmas. --[[User:Username|Username]] 00:13, 26 September 2021 (EDT)
+
https://archive.org/search?query=%E6%80%AA%E7%8D%A3%E3%82%B4%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A9&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22; If anyone knows what this is about and decides it warrants entering, thanks. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:18, 29 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
: It's a Portuguese translation. VT set up, thanks! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 00:29, 26 September 2021 (EDT)
+
== Magic German Cats ==
  
−
== Co-Authored Charles Beaumont Story ==
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?33710; There was a 1999 German edition under a new title, https://archive.org/details/katmagie13katten0000unse, in case anyone fluent wants to enter that. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:02, 30 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=moon+in+gemini&type=All+Titles; date unknown for inclusion in Centipede reprint of Beaumont and Tomerlin's novel, but it's actually from Beaumont's 2000 collection of unpublished stories A Touch of the Creature; photos of contents page online don't show Tomerlin, so maybe it's at head of story or they didn't know back then (or forgot to mention it). PV rarely responds so maybe someone else has the book handy. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:46, 26 September 2021 (EDT)
+
== ZOLTAR ==
  
−
== "Publications with Invalid Prices" further enhanced ==
+
[https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?USE_1=pub_title&O_1=exact&TERM_1=&C=AND&USE_2=pub_verifier&O_2=exact&TERM_2=Zoltar&USE_3=pub_title&O_3=exact&TERM_3=&USE_4=pub_title&O_4=exact&TERM_4=&USE_5=pub_title&O_5=exact&TERM_5=&USE_6=pub_title&O_6=exact&TERM_6=&USE_7=pub_title&O_7=exact&TERM_7=&USE_8=pub_title&O_8=exact&TERM_8=&USE_9=pub_title&O_9=exact&TERM_9=&USE_10=pub_title&O_10=exact&TERM_10=&ORDERBY=pub_year&ACTION=query&START=0&TYPE=Publication]; Polish primary verifier seemed to be very active in 2012 and then nothing, they left a lot of their 300+ PV unfinished with missing info, mentioning this in case anyone fluent in Polish wants to follow up on any of them and add or fix anything. I thought of this before but remembered it today after finding a photo for Jerzy Sosnowski on FantLab and an archived copy of the anthology PL +50 which his story on ISFDB appears in. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:45, 30 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
The cleanup report "Publications with Invalid Prices" has been further enhanced to look for incorrectly positioned currency abbreviations, missing decimal separators, etc. I expect that the next run of the report will find around 1,680 problem prices. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:54, 26 September 2021 (EDT)
+
== verification email  ==
−
: So can we get a yellow warning when trying to add a price that will ping on the report? :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:57, 27 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:: Yup! {{FR|1444}}, "Enhance yellow warnings for prices", was created 3 hours ago :-) [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:10, 27 September 2021 (EDT)
+
I have tried several times to elicit a verification email but nothing has arrived. I've checked junk & trash as well. Is this simply not working? {{unsigned|Starman99}}
−
::: Great. The big offenders on the missing thousands separator are the few languages which have 4-digits prices often but do not natively use thousands separator - Japanese, Hungarian... Some of the other weird prices in the report are... weird. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:42, 27 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:::: Done. The logic was a bit tricky due to certain obscure technical issues, but it should work in the vast majority of cases that we are likely to deal with. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:48, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
+
: I am afraid this is a common occurrence, which we [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:FAQ#What_if_I_don.27t_receive_the_confirmation_email.3F discuss in the ISFDB FAQ]:
  
−
:Related to this, could we have the system automate the adding of commas where appropriate? A similar thing is already done with dashes in ISBNs, and that could probably be adapted to insert commas where appropriate in prices. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:58, 27 September 2021 (EDT)
+
:* Different email servers have different automated rules which may block email coming from certain Web sites, which makes it hard to tell what's preventing ISFDB confirmation email from being delivered to your mailbox.
  
−
:: The way the ISFDB software auto-hyphenates ISBNs is not a very good example because the code that does the work is over 60,000 characters long :-)
+
:* Note, however, that confirmation emails are optional as far as ISFDB is concerned. As long as you can log in, you have full access to all ISFDB features including Advanced Search, display preferences, submission creation etc.
  
−
:: I'll have to think about the feasibility of adding commas automatically. It seems doable, but there may be gotchas. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 18:44, 27 September 2021 (EDT)
+
: Since you were able to post the message above, you should be all set :-) [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:11, 30 January 2024 (EST)
−
:::: NNNN will always need to be N,NNN and NNNNN will always need to be NN,NNN (and NNNNNN -> NNN,NNN). Not much of a place for gotchas. Unless someone writes something like 0200 as a price copying from somewhere which padded 0s but these can be easily caught on moderation even if we cannot first remove the padding on submission. Still better than chasing people for the missing comma. Plus that will also allow you to catch things like 12,23 - comma will always mean 3 symbols behind it. ;) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:08, 27 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== (The) Claw ==
+
== Ace Dates ==
  
−
Futura edition of Ramsey Campbell's (as Jay Ramsay) The Claw, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?178149, was actually titled Claw, which I discovered from title page on Richard Dalby's site (which doesn't show up on Google Images because in the Dalby site's usual shoddy way misspelled name as Jay Ramsey). I changed title for both Ramsay and Campbell parent, but there are 2 1992 editions which say The Claw, so I don't know if those actually have that title, whether their title pages just say Claw, and whether their variant status has to be changed now that I've fixed the original edition's title. --[[User:Username|Username]] 17:51, 27 September 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5872024; Can someone on the long list of editors find out where someone got month from? Whoever entered many of these old PB long ago was very random about noting where they got the month, but I remember it was a checklist or something so that's likely where this one came from, too. I thought it would be obvious why I added the month since it's there throughout the contents but I guess not. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:27, 30 January 2024 (EST)
−
: You cannot change the title of the parent because it is inside of the two books that we highly suspect have "The" on their title pages (as they do on their covers - title and pub records should match). So we have two options here:
 
−
:* Create a new parent for [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?13370 this record] with the title "Claw" and redate the existing "The Claw" to match the first record under that form so 1992-07-00 (now it takes its date from the earlier publication because of the "most commonly known title" rule.
 
−
:* Leave it as is if "The Claw" is considered the best known title.
 
−
: Let me know if you have any questions. Cases like that can get a bit complicated because of early publication under different titles under pseudonyms. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:11, 27 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Asimov's non-fiction ==
+
== Berthon ==
  
−
A new editor found a new updated list of Asimov's non-fiction, a lot of which we are missing, most of it is non-genre related (but is eligible as it was published as separate books and he is above threshold). The data is [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Pdw1966#Answer here] if we have a volunteer. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:57, 27 September 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=theodore+le&type=Name; Space in first entry separates same essay from its appearances elsewhere; no essay title page I can find but I did see a contents page of Frankenstein File that says, um, Ted Le Berthon, https://www.ebay.com/itm/334647759422. So, if anyone can verify, a merge or variant will be needed. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 00:08, 31 January 2024 (EST)
−
: One volunteer. Willing to share. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 19:29, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Gahan Trio ==
+
== I'm looking for a book title ==
  
−
"Phyllis" by Gahan Wilson had a 1962 date on ISFDB but no note about where it came from; it came from Playboy, and was part of a 3-story group, Horror Trio. Another story, "The Book", has a note about where it came from but wasn't in that issue on ISFDB so I imported it and "Phyllis", but the 3rd story, "Appetizer", apparently was never published solo in any Wilson collection so I added it to that issue. However, Horror Trio is listed as a short story on ISFDB in Gahan Wilson: 50 Years of Playboy Cartoons, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?333886, so that might be a problem; either they just used the drawings accompanying the stories or actually reprinted the stories, in which case some varianting might be needed. --[[User:Username|Username]] 09:25, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
+
Hello everyone,
 +
I'm looking for a book title. I read the book years ago probably in the 80s. A quick summary the world is divided by a massive mountain range. I think that the protagonist must climb the mountain range in order to become the ruler. They climb the mountain only to find a deep valley on the other side with an even higher mountain range behind it. The protagonist ultimately climbs the second mountain range where they find another land on the far side with another intelligent species. This has been driving me batty and I would appreciate it if anyone knows what this books title is and who wrote it. Thank you. {{Unsigned2|19:21, February 1, 2024‎| Firefighterbgrg }}
 +
:If no one here is able to help you, we have a [[ISFDB:FAQ#I need help finding a book|section in our FAQ]] that gives several places where you can ask for help finding the book. Good luck! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:15, 2 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
:Well, there's a primary verifier for that publication, who is active. So, what about asking him? (That'd be a lot more effective). [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 09:27, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
+
== Darrah Chavey ==
  
−
:: Because the 1 time months ago I let him know I added/fixed info for a book he PV'd, he responded with extreme rudeness bordering on hostility, so much so that I left him a message calling him out on it, to which he never bothered to respond. So if you want to ask him about this book, go ahead. If not, who cares, it'll go unfixed for years or maybe never; book was PV'd in 2014, so obviously nobody else here was ever curious about why a new story was written by Wilson in a book full of decades-old stories. UPDATE: PV also entered Dracula Country as original when it's actually from 1978, so I fixed that and added a link to PLAYBOY's site which includes the full story and the original cartoons by Wilson. Also, 50 Years of Playboy Cartoons is on Google with a preview of the book, and searching inside shows Appetizer, Book, and Phyllis are mentioned, so why PV didn't enter them under their individual titles is unknown. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:15, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
+
I learn via [https://news.ansible.uk/a439.html Ansible] today that Darrah Chavey left this mortal coil on 6 January. He was always a learned and consistent editor to work alongside at the ISFDB... Happy trails Darrah, Rest In Peace. :( [[User:PeteYoung|PeteYoung]] ([[User talk:PeteYoung|talk]]) 10:39, 2 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
::: You refer to [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Willem_H.#Wellspring this]. Re-read the first line and tell me again how you wrote "in a professional manner". And about not responding to messages, on your talk page I counted over 40 messages to which you never bothered to respond. How civilized is that?
+
: Yes, indeed. There was a brief [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal#Darrah_Chavey.27s_Passing Community Portal discussion on 2024-01-11] and Darrah's database record was updated. RIP. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:01, 2 February 2024 (EST)
−
::: On the subject of Gahan Wilson, 'Horror Trio' is presented as one story with three chapters titled Appetizer, Book and Phyllis. There is nothing in the book about how and when it was published before. The only thing I knew (from the title of the book) was that it was published in Playboy at some undefined time. Nice that you found this. I entered the three separate stories and a note about how they are presented. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 15:13, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:::: The first line mentions info I added and changes I made and reason why I contacted you about them first, because of frequent complaints from mods about checking with PV first before making changes. There's nothing unprofessional about any of that. Most of the messages I get on my page don't receive an answer because they're not the type that require an answer; if a fix is needed I just fix it, so there's no need to respond. I also noticed today for the first time that when you deleted some of my notes for Wellspring you referred to them as "nonsense notes", which is clearly not professional. None of this matters much because I've refrained since then from contacting you about any book PV'd by you and if I come across one I just fix what needs fixing, which is often needed. As to Gahan Wilson, a check of ISFDB's record for him would have shown that his 1998 collection The Cleft contains 2 of the tales, The Book and Phyllis, and obviously there was a third tale, Appetizer, since they were all under the heading Horror Trio. I found out all of this in a few seconds. Also, I suppose there was no date for Dracula Country, either, since you entered it as an original story, but the real 1978 date was also found in a few seconds. A PV should know that books are totally unreliable as to when and where stories are first published and more research is needed to verify the info. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:41, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
+
== Gardner F. Fox's text story in "Strange Adventures" ==
  
−
::::: Let me clarify one thing here. Primary verifications exist to confirm that our records accurately reflect what's stated '''in''' the actual publications. If a primary verifier decides to do more research, that's great, but it's not a requirement. As per [[Help:How_to_verify_data]], the only requirement is to "make sure that your publication matches what is in the database". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:47, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
+
Earlier today a Usenet poster pointed out that {{A|Gardner F. Fox}} published "The Magic Maker of Rann", a text story, in the comic ''Strange Adventures'' #226. The story is lavishly illustrated, but the text works just fine even if you were to reprint it without illustrations, which is how we determine whether a story is "graphic".
  
−
:::: I've added page scans from a site that shows all 3 stories, so that should be all for this matter. FYI, I found a 2007 edition of Wellspring and added it a while back, in case you own that one, too, and have anything to add to its record. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:41, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
+
The whole thing is available [https://thedorkreview.blogspot.com/2012/01/adam-stranges-magic-maker-of-rann.html online], illustrations included. Should we treat ''Strange Adventures'' as a non-genre periodical and list this story? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 16:32, 2 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
::::: Deriving an ISBN and adding notes are not significant changes, if you had read the message above my talkpage, you could have seen there was no need at all to bother me with that. "you can look at it before others do and complain that I didn't talk to PV before making changes" is cynical and completely unnecessary for a first contact. If you don't have the decency to acknowledge you read a message and explain what you did, why do you keep complaining that I didn't respond to your last accusation? On your talkpage see [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Username#Plagiarism this], [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Username#Language this] and [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Username#.5Bno_subject.5D this] for some of your most blatant breaches of protocol. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 16:13, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
+
:I've entered a number of Eando Binder stories from the {{Series|Lieutenant Jon Jarl of the Space Patrol}} series that originally appeared in {{Series|Captain Marvel Adventures}} comic, and I entered them in exactly the manner you suggest. I believe some of these stories have been reprinted as text alone, so I felt I was on pretty safe ground.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 16:43, 2 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
:::::: The "Plagiarism" issue turned out to be correct, as the person guilty of it was mentioned on several websites, and not only was my webpage about him added to his ISFDB record but moderator searched the web and added a page about his plagiarism they found, too; the "Language" issue was because when adding edits I would occasionally refer to "damn Amazon" or something similar when their shoddy info was annoying me; none of the (very mild) language was ever directed at editors, moderators, etc.  --[[User:Username|Username]] 17:24, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
+
== Lost Ark Storybook ==
  
−
::::::: "Damn Amazon" would be fairly mild in a casual conversation. However, keep in mind that not only Notes, but also Moderator Notes can be accessed by anyone on the internet. Not only would such language present our project as unprofessional, but it could also jeopardize our ability to get book data from Amazon. The reason that our robot, Fixer, has been able to build and enter so many records -- see [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/topcontrib.cgi?7 this Top Contributors page for NewPubs] -- is that the ISFDB and Amazon have an agreement that lets us access Amazon's internal databases. Amazon can terminate the agreement at any time and for any reason (or for no reason at all.) Keeping our notes professional is the least we can do to avoid jeopardizing our access. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:24, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5880702; ISBN belongs to Scholastic edition judging by a back cover I saw online. There's a later (3rd) trade printing on Archive.org with trade and library ISBN on the copyright page so either this record should be made Scholastic or a new record created for Random House edition(s). I've been adding dozens of Wikipedia links to novelizations recently and I've come across some other issues like this (only one I can remember is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade by Anne Digby which has pub. series as Hippo Books but that actually belongs to the UK edition which I made a new record for) so when these are approved a check and some fixing/adding is probably needed for at least a few of them. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:50, 3 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
:::::: As for the third message, the editor hacked my user page and was given a warning by moderators not to do it again or there would be consequences, so I had a very good reason not to respond to any of their messages. Also, if you had responded with "no need" then I would have added similar info to your PV'd books in the future without asking you first; other moderators have told me "no need" without a problem. Instead, you wrote, "You use an awful lot of words to say nothing. I don't need to visit your source" and referred to my notes as "cluttering the notefield" and "nonsense notes". Maybe your house fire which occurred shortly before our conversation left you in a bad mood, so I'll just chalk your angry response up to that. --[[User:Username|Username]] 17:24, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
+
== Rise of the Silver Surfer ==
  
−
::::::: So keep living in your dreamworld where everybody has to be decent except you. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 03:56, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?346021; I made an edit fixing typo "udpated" to "updated", surprisingly the only such error on all of ISFDB, and realized that this edition was likely never published with AbeBooks having a weird "cover to be unveiled" photo. So unless someone can find evidence of a copy I think this should get the unpublished date. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:30, 3 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Merovingen Nights ==
+
== Parnassus Wizard of Earthsea ==
  
−
Back when we entered the title series {{Series|Merovingen Nights}} in the database, the software only supported integer series numbers. There was no easy way to reflect the fact that {{A|C. J. Cherryh}}'s [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2426 ''Angel with the Sword''] was originally a standalone novel which later spawned a series of 7 anthologies edited by Cherryh. We ended up entering ''Angel with the Sword'' as entry #1 in the series and then entered the anthologies as entries 2-8. This wasn't a great solution because the seven anthologies are explicitly numbered 1-7 as explained in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/note.cgi?Series+1128 this note].
+
https://archive.org/details/wizardofearthsea00ursu; I added a link to a Parnassus edition based on someone's extensive notes here (no number line or smudge on title page) but there are some editions of this book only linked from Open Library including the one above which has a price much higher than any other book from the publisher on ISFDB but copyright page has same info as 1969 2nd printing so if anyone knows a way to determine the date a new edition can be added. There's an ancient ISFDB bibliography from 2006 by Ahasuerus, https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Author:Ursula_K._Le_Guin, which could probably use some updating unless it's been updated somewhere else. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 20:08, 4 February 2024 (EST)
  
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Now that we have more options, I think we should use the same numbering scheme (1-7) that the anthologies use. We could then call ''Angel with the Sword'' book #0 in the series. Would that work? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 09:54, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Pranks ==
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: Yep. This numbering had been bugging me for awhile. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:00, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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:: Without objection, so ordered. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:09, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?17626; I've made edits for all editions before, original 1983 Amazon cover seems to have disappeared leading to a broken image so I replaced it, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5882029, then I replaced OL/Archive cover which is too dark with an Amazon cover, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5882020, that isn't great but is brighter and still retains the sparkly stuff on the title that Leisure used to attract people to buy their books which then led to disappointment when the buyers realized the novels themselves were usually crap, the latest edition is fine as is, so now I think the 1983 edition with the wrong price and ISBN should be deleted and the image uploaded by Chris J. should be removed from the Wiki since it seems to be the badly creased cover that's still on Amazon with unnecessary back cover included. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:17, 5 February 2024 (EST)
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::: And I removed the Series note I added back in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?3866747 2018] which was explaining our weird numbering because it was incorrect now. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:10, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Ivan Stang ==
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== Felix Kelly ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?710845; ISFDB entry for J.R. Dobbs misspells first name of real guy so I fixed it and added Wikipedia for Ivan Stang, then searched for Ivan Stang and there's that 1 story above; don't know if that's by the "real" Ivan Stang or what. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:45, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
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I entered new records for Faber anthologies Best Murder Stories and Best Murder Stories 2 which are mostly genre or by genre authors; I also looked at Best Tales of Terror, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?4213, and even though I know I've seen that cover many times I never noticed until seeing it full-sized on FantLab that there's a very clear signature lower right, FELIX KELLY. I entered that in an edit but the problem is that the record for him, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?255975, might be the same artist who did the 1956 art but can't be the guy from 1879. So there may be 2 Felix Kellys in case anyone can find out more and separate them into 2 records; it's also possible that the 1956 art was not new but taken from something drawn by the older Kelly. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:09, 6 February 2024 (EST)
 +
:Also added Margaret Wolpe as cover artist for Best Tales of Terror 2; no signature I can see but FantLab credits her + there's a copy on Dalby's site whose front flap says she did "jacket design" and the art does look like many of her other Faber covers. Also greatly updated her record with lots of bio info and noted she was married to Berthold, also an artist, and updated his record as well. Dalby's copy has a pounds price sticker covering another pound price so I'm getting the impression Faber reprinted their anthologies many times with no way to tell except the prices kept getting higher; lots of printings are probably missing so if anyone has any not on ISFDB it would be good to enter them. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:03, 6 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Link to the PV page on the PV'd publication ==
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== The Adventure of the Peerless Peer ==
  
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If you look at a PV'd publication, ([http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?858315 example]), and you click on the name of the verifier, it leads you to their user page and not to their discussion page. That can be a bit confusing if someone does not have experience with Wiki and it kinda hides messages left on top of an editor's Discussion/Talk page explaining how to communicate with them or showing that they are inactive and so on. Is there a reason why we link to [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User:Anniemod the user page] and not to the [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Anniemod Talk page]? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:10, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
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Are there any objections to converting [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?11929 this] to a novella? The recent ebook reprint is marked as 27k words by Kobo USA and looking at the page numbers and some of the other editions, it does feel too small to be a novel. Thanks! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 17:41, 6 February 2024 (EST)
  
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: It looks like most submission-related pages link to User pages as well as to Talk pages. On the other hand, user-facing bibliographic pages like the Publication page linked above or the Advanced User Search page link only to User page.
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: It's definitely a novella. The Titan Books edition (2011) is well over 200 pages and looks like a bona fide novel, but its apparent length is due to the addition of a very long promotional excerpt from {{A|Kim Newman}}'s ''Moriarty: The Hound of the D'Urbervilles''. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:16, 7 February 2024 (EST)
  
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: It would be easy enough to make all pages link to Talk pages in addition to User pages. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:22, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Termush - convert to novella ==
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:: Or just leave links to the Talk page so we do not confuse people. Which just happened [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Lem#The_Stepford_Wives again] despite a step by step provided. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:39, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
 
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::: So can we do something about this, please?  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 03:08, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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:::: I can create an FR, but first we need to decide how we want to standardize User/Talk links across Web pages. Do we need links to User pages? Or will links to Talk pages be enough? Removing links to User pages would also make things less crowded. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 10:36, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
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Another recent reprint shows [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1443797 this one] as 25k words in English (Kobo USA count) which will leave it well short of 40K in its original Danish as well. Any objections to converting this to a novella? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 18:27, 6 February 2024 (EST)
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::::: I’d vote for replacing the current User link with a Talk link. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:40, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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:::::: I can see how a single "Talk" link would be a cleaner option than what we currently have. I have hardly used "User" links in the 15+ years that we have had them. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:33, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
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== John Stanley ==
  
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::::::: Hearing no objection, I have created {{FR|1459}}, "Standardize links to User and Talk pages ". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:51, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5883789; See my note about artist, that Little Lulu credit in the original Stanley record belongs with I's record because, as my note in the original says, he was born in '39 or '40 so he would only have been 9 or 10 if he did that art which is unlikely; this is the right Stanley, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stanley_(cartoonist). The Melvin Monster credits belong with I, too. I have to assume the Fengriffen Stanley is not the same as I because it's a UK edition and he's American plus it's a photograph, not drawn. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 00:10, 7 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Duplicate Brazilian Foundation prequels and sequels currently showing on the homepage ==
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== Doolin ==
  
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There are 4/8 of these, plus a box set e.g. http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?854955 and http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?854974 .  A glance at the edit history of a couple of them looks like they were submitted by different editors at roughly the same time.
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?431777; Late PV entered James Doolin based on signature but there is none, FantLab photo has initials JPD, it's actually Joseph Doolin, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?27894, and he has an entry for the same art, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1590968. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:48, 7 February 2024 (EST)
  
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I could possibly merge these records, but maybe it'd be better for someone more knowledgeable on Brazilian pubs to take a look?  In particular, one set are marked as pb, the other as tp.  Looking at earlier Foundation series pubs from this publisher, I suspect they are tps, but I couldn't be sure on that.  OTOH, the tp records were done as NewPubs, and so aren't varianted to the original English titles.  (The omnibus looks like it uses these tp records, so I imagine that will need to have the contents cleared out and re-done?) [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 08:17, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
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== Uncorrected Proofs ==
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: I will clear these up - they all were just approved without clearing up. Thanks for the note! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:41, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
 
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:: I think I got them all. Thanks for posting :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:26, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Hidden MacAvoy Book ==
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I'm holding [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5870146 this submission] to update {{P|29328|this record}}.  I noticed that the record states that it was unpublished (8888-00-00), yet there appears to be a cover that was just added.  More importantly it also describes this as an "uncorrected proof" and I had thought that proofs were outside of our [[ISFDB:Policy#Contents/Project Scope Policy|scope]].  The policy specifically excludes Advance Reading Copies unless available for sale to the public.  Do uncorrected proofs differ from ARCs in terms of determining scope?  This seems straightforward to me and I believe the publication should be deleted.  If others disagree and this requires a full discussion, we can move this the the Rules and Standards board.  Thoughts?  Thanks. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 10:59, 7 February 2024 (EST)
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: I read the rules the same way you do - ARCs and uncorrected proofs are out. However, we do keep records of unpublished but announced books (these are in scope under the <i>announced but never published (entered as "unpublished")</i> part of ROA) so I would not delete this one as it is under that category. So ARC/uncorrected proof of a book that comes out will not be eligible but if the book never makes it out, adding the notes about it into the 8888 book are fine I think. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:22, 7 February 2024 (EST)
  
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https://openlibrary.org/books/OL26775558M/New_Cthulhu_The_Recent_Weird; just a heads up that R.A. MacAvoy's book Death and Resurrection is on Archive.org but trying to find it on Open Library is screwy because Prime Books, one of my most nefarious foes since I started editing on ISFDB, whose track record for shoddiness is legendary, printed the wrong ISBN on New Cthulhu's copyright page but the right one on the back cover, so MacAvoy's Open Library page has no Archive link to his book but the page I linked above has wrong title and cover image but right author, and clicking Preview brings you to MacAvoy's book, in case anyone was looking for it. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:10, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
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:: Comparing this publication record with [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3379 other, published, editions of the book], I note that it has a different ISBN in addition to a different publisher name. I typically enter announced-then-canceled ISBNs as 8888-00-00 publication records under the rule referenced by Annie. Their presence in our database helps answer a common question: "Whatever happened to this apparent first edition? Why can't I find any copies for sale?" We all know how obsessed collectors can get when it comes to first editions and our database is frequently the only readily accessible place that explains what happened to a "disappeared" ISBN. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 11:51, 7 February 2024 (EST)
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:::I've no argument with a publication record for an announced, but unpublished book. However, an unpublished book and an uncorrected proof are two different things. The notes on this record confuse the issue as to what the record represents. The addition of a cover scan and artist further confuses things.  How are we able to display a cover of a book that was never published?  I would suggest that the notes be reworked to indicate that a proof was done as evidence of the planned publication.  We could replace the first two sentences with "The Bluejay Books imprint was dissolved late in 1986 just after an uncorrected proof for this planned edition was printed in September of that year."  I would also recommend deleting the cover of the proof and rejecting the addition of an artist.  I do worry that if we were to make an exception and allow a record specifically for an uncorrected proof when the book is never published, it would encourage the addition of other proofs and ARCs especially by those editors who surmise rules by examples of what is already in the database.  If others think this should be a valid exception to allow records for proofs, then we should document it in the scope page as is done with ARCs offered for sale.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 19:00, 7 February 2024 (EST)
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:::: That sounds like a plan and the proposed change in the notes sounds fine to me - that will make it clear that the record is here because the book was announced and not because it had an ARC/uncorrected proofs done. I am at two minds about the cover - if it was announced with the book, recording it makes sense as it may help trace it to an artist later on and as it is part of the record after all. But other from that - I agree that we need to be careful not to confuse ARCs and unpublished books per se - although when a publication fails through often varies so there are ARCs out there for books that do not make it - that one being an example. Maybe all we need is to strengthen the language to specify that the exclusion is for books that end up being published - thus allowing the usecase we have here without a concern. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 19:06, 7 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Hale or Gresham? ==
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:::::I agree that the pub record should stay because it falls under "announced but never published" and agree with Ron that the problem with it as it stands is that the pub note gives the impression that the record has been created for the proof, not the unpublished book. Ron's tweak to the pub note solves this problem.
 +
:::::Further notes and suggestions:
 +
:::::1) I agree that mentioning the proof in the pub note is a good idea. It is evidence that the book was announced.
 +
:::::2) I definitely think the cover image should be deleted. It should either be omitted or of the final cover. The latter assumes the publisher reached that stage and that we could find the image. All very unlikely. The cover image is more than just the artwork; it's also the colouring, wording, layout and typography and those aspects of the proof cover clearly wouldn't reflect the final version.
 +
:::::3) I would delete the OCLC/WorldCat External ID and just mention it in the pub note because it refers specifically to the uncorrected proof and not the unpublished final work.
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:::::4) I'm ambivalent about importing the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?950860 coverart record]. It's clear from the cover of the proof that Ron Walotsky was the intended artist so this falls under "announced but never published" but it would need a pub note explaining the source and why there's no image.
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:::::5) I'm broadly against making an exception for including ARC's / proofs when the book was unpublished although I do see Annie's point of view. But I think it's an unnecessary complication and veers back towards Ron's point about "encourage the addition of other proofs and ARC's especially by those editors who surmise rules by examples of what is already in the database" which is something I strongly agree we want to avoid. Also, if we do permit this exception, how do we implement it? Does it mean we would have two pub records: one for the unpublished work and one for the proof? [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 07:46, 8 February 2024 (EST)
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::::::I've gone ahead and change the notes as discussed above.  I've also moved the Worldcat number and the cover into the notes so that it's clear the record is for the unpublished work and not for the proof.  I'll reject the held edit.  Let me know if someone disagrees with these changes.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 21:47, 12 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?4784; been doing lots of edits for Robert Hale SF books, and an oddity is that there seems to be a subseries called John Gresham SF; just added Nuetzel to the page linked above (couldn't find the cover anywhere, but Amazon's fake cover says it's a Gresham book). Some of those books say John Gresham is the publisher, some just say Gresham, and some say Robert Hale. Most of these books were only published in Great Britain, so if anyone owns copies they can verify who the publisher is and fix accordingly. --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:56, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
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== N. Carroll ==
  
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== Sheep ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?165703; The stories belong with the other Carroll but that ndp thing doesn't look right to me so maybe some other differing addition should replace it. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:58, 7 February 2024 (EST)
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:Author attribution on the three stories, initially credited to Noël Carrol, has been corrected. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 07:57, 8 February 2024 (EST)
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::Thanks. I still think it's weird about that (ndp) because there's thousands of nom de plumes on ISFDB but this is the only one that has that added on the end of the name. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 08:28, 8 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?7783; the American edition was almost totally empty, so I added info pieced together from different online sites; cover image can't be found by me anywhere. I remember this book clearly from my bookstore-browsing days in the 1990's when White Wolf books were everywhere. Since they went out of business many of their books seem to have vanished, and finding copies or exact info about them is really tough. Recently I found a copy of their edition of the anthology Borderlands 2 at a decrepit thrift shop and it looked like a mint copy, which is bizarre because it came out more than 20 years earlier. So what I'd like to know is if anyone has a copy of Sheep and can verify info I added is all correct. Making the format "pb" I'm pretty sure about, but the rest is iffy. Found this, https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/White_Wolf_Night_Edition_Number_2, so ISBN and price seem to be correct. --[[User:Username|Username]] 22:34, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
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::: Well, we have some with (pseudonym) attached, and I'd think that'd be more meaningful (ndp isn't a colloquial abbreviation), or just a (I) attached. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] ([[User talk:Stonecreek|talk]]) 11:52, 8 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Swallowed By the Cracks ==
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::::I don't think we should use any parentheticals if we can avoid it. Since we have the (I) thing we already use extensively, I think that would be the best option for any that are currently using "(pseudonym)" as a disambiguator. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:20, 8 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5106233; should "by" be capitalized in title; ISBN taken from publisher site, but got yellow warning; copyright page on Google Books says "Dave 2 Beta 2" first appeared on Smith's blog in 2009, so should date be changed or doesn't that count? --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:07, 3 October 2021 (EDT)
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::::: There are reasons why I chose to set the author up as Noel Carroll (ndp). However, it's not worth our time to debate. I have changed it to [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?373877 Noel Carroll]. Not sure that the standards imply that Roman numerals are the preferred dismbiguator. [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:How_to_separate_two_authors_with_the_same_name Here] is the applicable help section. Thanks for your interest, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 14:06, 8 February 2024 (EST)
  
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: Questions answered in edit following mine. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:49, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
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== Karen Simmons ==
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:: Capitalization - we always follow our own rules unless there is an indication that the uncommon capitalization comes from the author and is intentional. No such indication here so we standardize.
 
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:: For the ISBNs - if it comes from a secondary source, unless they claim it is taken directly from the book, we follow our rules for the ISBN13/ISBN10. If you follow the secondary source because they claim it is so in the book, a note about that needs to be added. So a 2011 book will have an ISBN13 - unless we verify that only ISBN10 is printed in all possible places on the book. Some sites always use ISBN10, some always use ISBN13 - regardless of the age of the book.
 
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:: For the dates - add that to the notes.
 
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:: If you have a question here that is tied to a submission, you need to let us know in the moderator notes of the submission. Keeping track of questions here and submissions and lining them up together is not trivial.
 
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:: Let me know if I missed something above. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:14, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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::: You answered them OK both in your edit's "notes to moderator" and here. I asked about them here because when I wonder about certain things in my edits' notes most of the time I get no response, unless it's an angry one asking why I'm writing them a note there and not asking about it on the message boards, which used to happen often with a certain moderator here until I wised up and stopped writing notes in my edits; he rarely approves edits anymore, anyway. --[[User:Username|Username]] 17:13, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1117998; She's the wife of Dan Simmons, credited for author photograph in the HC which can be seen on eBay, [https://www.picclickimg.com/images/g/04sAAOSw1Mdltkv~/s-l1600.jpg], art is likely by one of the regular Headline cover artists, Chris Moore maybe, but I don't see a signature. So her credit should be removed. I noticed a 2nd printing of the Headline PB on Archive.org which has that same art (and price) but different blurbs on top and bottom so I'm going to enter that now. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:37, 8 February 2024 (EST)
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:::: Just saying "see "this community post" with a link is enough so someone knows to look - as long as it does not mean doing it for every single submission - that will slow down things considerably. Otherwise things get disconnected and especially with the big number of notes you are adding, noone can track them unless they monitor all boards while trying to work the queue and that is a bit... hard. I caught this one here by chance - recognized the title when it popped up as latest update. Plus notes here are not connected to the book so someone piecing things together later will not find them. The basic rule is: if you have a question, post on the boards somewhere but link in the submission (or wait for an answer before submitting); if it is background, add it to the moderator note. The problem with questions inside of a moderator note is that we have no other way to answer - besides posting to the wiki - so someone needs to go, create the question, add the answer and so on - as opposed to finding the question and just responding. Multiply that by a few hundred submissions per day from various editors with various level of understanding of how the DB works and... it gets complicated. Thus the "please no questions in the submissions; but do let us know when there are questions posted about it elsewhere". Or just ask, get an answer, then make the submission - most editors do that. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:26, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== African Counselman ==
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:Hi! There's a primary verification by Faustus. It'd be meaningful if you contact him to shed some light on the actual credit. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] ([[User talk:Stonecreek|talk]]) 11:49, 8 February 2024 (EST)
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::Hi! There's no credit on the PB because there's no author photo like there is on the back of the HC. 2nd printing PB I just entered has no art credit. I'm sure someone here familiar with UK PB artists will identify it in some artist's book sooner or later but it's certainly not by Dan's wife. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:08, 8 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?511906; https://fantlab.ru/edition177015; Very interesting case here, as Counselman published collections from genre publishers but also this rare book, which somehow is on Fantlab with photos of copyright page and contents page. I imported the 2 stories on ISFDB which have exactly the same title, but there's several 1950's titles from Jungle Stories which don't have the same title in this book, although 1 does have right title on copyright page vs. contents page, and "Blood-Brother of the Crocodile" says it's by either unknown or "John Starr" on ISFDB, but this, [http://www.philsp.com/data/images/j/jungle_stories_1951fal.jpg], seems to suggest that she wrote it under a pseudonym because she already had a story in that issue under her real name; the fact that story is by her doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere online. There's also a copyright credit for a 1933 Weird Tales story which isn't in the contents, a couple of mentions of non-genre magazines without saying which stories came from them, and an intriguing credit for Witch-Burning which is the title of a 1936 Weird Tales poem by her but is listed in the magazine credits. There's also a signature on the lower right of the cover which I can't decipher. So lots of work needed on this one, and hopefully someone will chime in with further useful info or possibly have a print copy so all titles can be verified from inside the book itself; possibly back cover might yield some info, too. Very little info online, so this would be a good one to add to ISFDB. There's also this, https://data.fantlab.ru/images/editions/plus/big/177029_1, which says the 1977 edition is actually enlarged from a 1975 edition, plus there's some other titles on that page that may belong on ISFDB. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:57, 3 October 2021 (EDT)
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== Wesso ==
  
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== Joan Aiken? ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5885644; Wiki says 1893. Anyone here who can find proof it's really 1894? I looked for a headstone but couldn't find one. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:49, 8 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?13759; added cover to 1 of Pineiro's books, so checked author's other books, too, and almost passed this 1 by because it already had a cover until I felt something was off because it's a fantasy cover and Pineiro doesn't write fantasy; turns out neither of the editors who worked on this record noticed the cover was for a Joan Aiken book with a totally different title. Not sure how that happened, but I fixed it; now I'm wondering if there's any way to scan ISFDB's records and determine in a batch which cover images don't match their titles? --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:19, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Story about the Premiere of Rite of Spring ==
−
: Actually this is the dreaded Amazon ISBN-based images issue (or as I call it the /P/ covers mess). The old value was <nowiki>http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0618196250.jpg</nowiki>
 
−
: This is ISBN-based image. When it was added, it was pointing to whatever Amazon had under the ISBN 0618196250 and probably matched the title just fine. That changed some time in the past - to a totally different book - usually it will be to a different edition but if/when ISBNs are reused or Amazon fixes/introduces a problem with an ISBN, all bets are off. As this links by ISBN, Amazon changes, our image changes. That's why we insist on /I/ images now - these are stable. Behind the scenes, the /P/ address just links to an /I/ address and they move to a different /I/ when the cover for the ISBN changes - thus messing up our editions sometimes.
 
−
: If you have the will and inclination to do something about these they are easily found-able with Advanced Search by looking for images containing amazon.com/images/P/ or [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?USE_1=pub_frontimage&O_1=contains&TERM_1=images%2FP%2F&C=AND&USE_2=pub_frontimage&O_2=contains&TERM_2=amazon&USE_3=pub_title&O_3=exact&TERM_3=&USE_4=pub_title&O_4=exact&TERM_4=&USE_5=pub_title&O_5=exact&TERM_5=&USE_6=pub_title&O_6=exact&TERM_6=&USE_7=pub_title&O_7=exact&TERM_7=&USE_8=pub_title&O_8=exact&TERM_8=&USE_9=pub_title&O_9=exact&TERM_9=&USE_10=pub_title&O_10=exact&TERM_10=&ORDERBY=pub_title&ACTION=query&START=0&TYPE=Publication like this] - and yes, we have a LOT of them - 26K last time I looked). Each of them can change overnight. If you work on that and you hit a verified book, make sure the PVs confirm what cover they have. Or just work on the non-verified first - there are enough for everyone. Fixing them is not trivial - as these need real eyes on them - we cannot just hit Amazon for the latest /I/ based on the ISBN because especially for older books, chances are that it is not the real one. So there will be some cross-validation around. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:35, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Milton's Paradise Lost - genre or not? ==
+
I'm looking for the short story (probably from 1970s) about recreating the experience of the premiere of The Rite of Spring by giving all of the audience members a new drug. I believe this was in one of the better short story annuals of the era.
  
−
Is "Paradise Lost" genre or does it fall under the religions exception that makes the Bible not a fantasy book? I think the Milton's poem is ours despite its connection to the religious texts... Any thoughts by anyone? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:57, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
+
Most of my book collection is in storage, alas, so I can't find this by leafing through my old pulp. {{Unsigned2|17:38, February 8, 2024‎| Martycohen36 }}
−
:I would say it's fantasy. To quote from Clute/Grant's entry on Milton: "His renown, in both English literature and genre fantasy, is based primarily on Paradise Lost..."  It goes on to say that the poem "dramatizes conversations between divine beings".  We include Dante's Divine Comedy which seems to me, the same sort of work. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 19:39, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Acervo Terror ==
+
== Black Christmas ==
  
−
Randomly came across a Spanish-language edition of R. Bloch's Strange Eons on Fantlab, entered it here, and now I see this, https://tercerafundacion.net/biblioteca/ver/coleccion/234, with 2 editions of R. Campbell's The Parasite, 2 of G.R.R. Martin's Fevre Dream, and a novel by a Spanish-language author who only has 2 short stories on ISFDB. I remember when looking for the Bloch cover on Google Images seeing a different cover with the same title, so there might be another edition of that, too. Possibly some people here have actual copies of these books they can enter. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:52, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?878255; While entering Wikipedia links for tons of novelizations I came across this rare 1976 one for the classic 1974 horror film. The original edition is apparently very rare because I've looked everywhere and can't find a copyright page that doesn't have the word FANGORIA on it because apparently Fangoria Magazine reprinted it in 2008 (although there is very little mention of this online). It does include the original info so I was able to enter the month (February, which is odd because you'd think it would be late in the year to capitalize on the holiday) but if anyone has a 1976 copy can you verify what it says on it? The film was Canadian and book says "Printed in Canada" so possibly it was only published there in which case the price will need a C added to it. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:18, 9 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Antiquary Impressions ==
+
== Riddle of the Exodus ==
  
−
Noticed Fantlab, in their usual careless way, threw up a bunch of random photos to go with their Ghost Stories of an Antiquary page, https://fantlab.ru/edition139848, and 2 photos show title pages of Third Impression (1906) and Fourth Impression (1910); only original and Second Impression are on ISFDB. In case anyone ever enters more editions, there's proof there's at least 2 more. --[[User:Username|Username]] 00:22, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?185298; Not fiction, religious history book, https://openlibrary.org/works/OL8166080W/The_Riddle_of_the_Exodus?edition=key%3A/books/OL8566162M, probably should be deleted. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:30, 9 February 2024 (EST)
−
: It is not "careless" - they just do not record the different impressions/printings of English books separately (or of the Russian ones either - additional printings are noted inside of the same record with all known details unless it is considered a new edition - which is well defined in Russian publishing). So we get lucky occasionally with data from weird printings popping up. You cannot blame them for actually following their policies. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 00:36, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:Deleted. I question if the author of the religious book is the same author as of the BattleTech books. I couldn't find anything on the religious author's sites that connect him to the BattleTech books. I will ping the active verifier for the BattleTech book to see if there is an author blurb. If not (or it indicates it is a different author), I will remove the the current author info from {{A|James D. Long}}. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 12:31, 10 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::Philfreund has confirmed the BattleTech book provides no biographical information on the author. I have removed the author info from {{A|James D. Long}} as it is more than likely a different person. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:28, 11 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
:: I suppose it's also their policy to show the photo of the fourth impression before the third one. Their written info is unreliable with many misspellings, wrong names, dates, etc. which cause me to have to double-check any info I get from their site. Many of their photos have watermarks not their own or look exactly like photos on other, more reputable sites, down to the same rips in the cover, so it's questionable where they got many of their photos from, too. One of my few joys while editing here is complaining about the shocking shoddiness of sites I get info from or book publishers who can't even get info right in their own books. If I want to vent, I'll vent. --[[User:Username|Username]] 01:17, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Mutant Chronicles ==
  
−
== Title Dates Before First Publication Date ==
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?250352; I replaced the cover; if anyone knows about the old one, whether it was an early one that was rejected or if it belongs to a different edition, a note about early art or a new record for the other edition if it exists would be good. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 20:09, 11 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?275 This report] is only restricted to Serials and Coverart variants now - which we are mostly done with. Can we add another type so we can start working on more of the mismatched titles. Novel for example (which will be a lot more fun because sometimes it will mean adding books, sometimes it will mean resetting the date)... :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:38, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Lieutenant Teasdale R.O.N. ==
  
−
: Certainly. Here is what we have on the development server, which is currently one day behind the live server:
+
I need to make several changes to the pub records for [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3126730 Lieutenant Teasdale R.O.N.]. The tp edition has a sole PV by the late Biomassbob but he somehow missed showing that Paula Goodlett is the co-author of the work. Amazon also shows the pub date for that edition as 2023-12-07, not 2023-12-02 as currently shown in the pub record. The 12-07 date makes more sense since all of the other self-published books by Gorg Hoff and Paula Goodlett have the ebook edition published the day prior to the tp edition. Any objection to my making changes? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 12:21, 12 February 2024 (EST)
 +
: Mistakes happen :) Go ahead - make sure the notes clarify where the date is coming from. And while you are there, we do not use "Independently published" as a publisher - so can you also fix that (author names are used when there is no publisher). I will sort out the other 2 we have under that publisher later today. Thanks for finding this one! :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 13:44, 12 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::Done. I also corrected the title for the Interiorart maps record to match current standards. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 15:29, 12 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
+--------------+--------------------+
+
== Locus1 Secondary Verifications ==
−
| ANTHOLOGY    |                83 |
 
−
| COLLECTION  |                224 |
 
−
| COVERART    |                  5 |
 
−
| INTERIORART  |              9467 |
 
−
| EDITOR      |                  1 |
 
−
| ESSAY        |              1796 |
 
−
| INTERVIEW    |                86 |
 
−
| NOVEL        |              2106 |
 
−
| NONFICTION  |                69 |
 
−
| OMNIBUS      |                77 |
 
−
| POEM        |                955 |
 
−
| REVIEW      |                129 |
 
−
| SERIAL      |                16 |
 
−
| SHORTFICTION |              10498 |
 
−
| CHAPBOOK    |                60 |
 
−
+--------------+--------------------+
 
  
−
: Which title type(s) would be the best candidate? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:04, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
Occasionally I come across pubs that have been SVd to Locus1 solely on the basis of their mention as the first edition of a later publication. The first one I encountered, as a very rookie editor, was this one: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?197293 David Brin / Sundiver]. I asked the SVer, Rtrace, about it and received [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Rtrace/Archive15#David_Brin_.2F_Sundiver this explanation]. For the purposes of this thread I shall refer to these as "indirect listings".
−
:: Let’s get the anthologies, chapbooks, omnibuses and collections out of the way - they will have both cases where we need to add a book and cases where we need to fix a date and they are low enough number not to overwhelm. 21:12, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
<br>
 +
The most recent one I have encountered is [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?191929 David Gerrold / Chess with a Dragon] and it is this pub record that has prompted this thread because there is a clear contradiction between the SV to Locus1 and the pub note "Locus1 fails to list this pub (as of 2010-06-21)."
 +
<br>
 +
So my question is: should these indirect listings be allowed as SVs to Locus1? If I ruled the world I would not permit them because I don't think they conform to a general user's expectation of a Locus1 listing and they can cause confusion and inconsistencies as demonstrated by the Gerrold record. However, I do not feel strongly about this. I accept Ron's point that these indirect listings provide at least as much information as Clute/Nicholls and if the consensus is that they should be allowed then I can live quite happily with this.
 +
<br>
 +
However, if we do allow them then this Help page: [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Reference:Verification_Sources Reference:Verification_Sources] needs amendment. The matrix currently states that Locus1 provides "All" the information for fields such as Pages, Price and others but this is not true for the indirect listings. So either:
 +
<br>
 +
a) The relevant fields for Locus1 should be changed from "All" to "Some" (or maybe "Most").
 +
<br>
 +
or
 +
<br>
 +
b) A note should be added to the page explaining Locus1 indirect listings and clarifying that the values in the matrix for Locus1 only apply to full listings.
 +
<br>
 +
I prefer solution b).
 +
<br>
 +
Opinions please. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:38, 15 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
::: Done! The data will become available tomorrow morning. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 22:07, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
: An interesting point. So basically Locus1 has two types of records. One type covers editions published between 1984 and 2007 and includes publication details. The other type covers first editions (including editions published before 1984) and only lists their year and publisher. In an ideal world, we may want to create a separate Secondary Verification type for the latter and call it something like "Locus1-First Edition". Unfortunately, I am not sure it would be feasible since we have over [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/stats.cgi?2 50,000 Locus1 verifications] and separating them would be a very time-consuming project. If we decide not to do it, then I agree that we should update [[Reference:Verification_Sources]] to reflect the fact that not all Locus1-verified publication records can be expected to have publication level data.
  
−
== "New" Hugh Walpole Stories ==
+
: As far as cases like {{A|David Gerrold}}'s [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?191929 Chess with a Dragon] go, I would reword Notes. Instead of saying "Locus1 fails to list this pub (as of 2010-06-21)", I would say something like "Locus1 doesn't have a detailed record for this edition, but multiple records for reprint editions refer to it as the first edition." [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:48, 16 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::Yes, I realised when I started the thread that if we disallow the Locus1 indirect listings there could be a legacy issue of past records SVd to Locus1 that would be difficult to amend. This is often a problem when rules and standards are changed. So although in theory I would vote to disallow these cases, I accept it is not practical to do so. Consequently I am happy with leaving them as they are and updating [[Reference:Verification_Sources]] to reflect the fact that not all Locus1-verified publication records can be expected to have publication level data, which we both agree with.
 +
::I am working on [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?191929 David Gerrold / Chess with a Dragon] and so will incorporate the change to the Locus1 pub note as you suggest. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 17:08, 16 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2627515; fixed "The Faithful Servant" and gave it its original 1939 date; however, Leonaur either gave "Major Wilbraham" the wrong title on their website or it's actually spelled that way in their book. No PV, no photos of contents page online I can find, so if anyone has the book they may want to check and fix/merge, or make it a variant. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:49, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
::: Hearing no objection, I have clarified the "Locus1" row of [[Reference:Verification Sources]]. Thanks for identifying this issue. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:12, 26 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::::Thank you. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 16:27, 2 March 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Lois Lowry Mostly non-genre ==
+
== Necronomicon in Sweden ==
  
−
HI! A new submitter has tagged a group of Lois Lowry[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?3085] books as non-genre and a quick look at her page and aside from the series Giver the rest appears to be just that non-genre. One that fits is about talking animals I think and a few short stories(specfic). Thoughts/opinions? Thanks.[[User:Kraang|Kraang]] 22:08, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=d+bergho&type=Name; First name likely misspelled by PV (or magazine it appeared in) and essay is in second name's record with a much earlier date. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:47, 15 February 2024 (EST)
−
: Looking at them, the Krupnik family does not seem to be anywhere near genre and I don’t see Lowry as above genre - so that whole series should be deleted IMO.  And that’s probably true for some others in there as well. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:46, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:: SFE3 [http://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/lowry_lois confirms] that the ''Giver'' series is YA science fiction. It also states that ''Gossamer'' is a fantasy, which Wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossamer_(novel) agrees with]. ''The Birthday Ball'' is a juvenile tale about a princess in what appears to be pre-modern society, but I can't tell if it includes any speculative elements. According to [https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-willoughbys-movie-review-2020 one review], ''The Willoughbys'' "often breaks out of its confines of impossible situations through fantasy", but it reviews the movie and not the source material, so it may not be dispositive.
+
== Garland Library of SF ==
  
−
:: Overall, I would say that this author's non-SF works significantly outnumber her SF works -- see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lois_Lowry#Works this Wikipedia bibliography, which is more complete than ours.] We may want to delete the non-SF titles. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 22:56, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?8067; I made a couple of edits adding archived link, LCCN and cover image to Past Master when I noticed that there is 1 book in the series with a UK price and 1 without any price. So if anyone can fill in the missing one and add US one (moving UK to notes) for the other then everything will be uniform. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:44, 16 February 2024 (EST)
−
:::Well I'll get at it tomorrow and approve the submitters edits, then leave a note on their page that the non-genre had to be deleted. If this sound OK I'll proceed. Thanks![[User:Kraang|Kraang]] 23:12, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::: Sounds like a plan. It will also save us from having to convert a lot of these ‘novels’ to chapbooks :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 23:27, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Arthur Stone canonical name ==
+
== Lou J. Berger ==
  
−
[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?310890 This guy] uses Arthur Stone for his English translations and Артём Каменистый for his Russian originals (it is the same name, just translated (not transliterated but translated) into the language the books are published in - who knows what he will be called in French). I plan to change the canonical name to the Russian name while adding all the originals. Anyone opposing? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:46, 6 October 2021 (EDT)
+
The author has requested we change his canonical name from [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?186596 Lou J. Berger] to "Lou J Berger" (no period after the "J"). See mod note [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5878281 here]. Any objections? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 15:32, 16 February 2024 (EST)
−
: Hearing no objections, I am going to change the canonical name here [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:53, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Matheson's Created By ==
+
: Checking Amazon.com's Look Inside, I see that the name was spelled "Lou J. Berger" in 2013-2014 and changed to "Lou J Berger" in 2015/2016. By now the majority of the stories use the "Lou J Berger" form of the name, so it should be our canonical name. We just need to make sure that we use the right form for the transitional (2015-2016) period. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 16:05, 16 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?88662; R.C. Matheson's 2016 collection Zoopraxis is on Google Books, and I found that Harry O. Morris was the cover artist, so entered that info and a bunch of essays, including one by Morris. Reading it, it mentioned other covers he'd done for Matheson's books, including the Gauntlet edition of Created By. That didn't have Morris' cover credit either, so I also entered that and a bunch of essays using this, https://picclick.com/CREATED-BY-Richard-Christian-Matheson-Signed-Limited-133740062907.html; however, some were not entered, because I don't know what TAG is (essay or short story, I'd assume), there's an Interview With Richard Matheson from 1991 already on ISFDB, so I don't know if it's that one or a new one, and The Script Portion sounds like a screenplay excerpt, but who knows. This edition seems rare, so if anyone has a print copy and can verify what those items are, respond here. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:22, 6 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:: Author attributions were reviewed and corrected resulting in compliance with the author's request. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 15:16, 17 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Mercury Mystery ==
+
== Locus on Microfilm ==
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?318208; wrote a note to PV, who doesn't respond often, about making his Donovan's Brain part of the Mercury Mystery series and making 87 the series #. There's another Mercury Mystery on ISFDB, The Sound of Murder, which has publisher as Mercury, so that probably needs renaming to The American Mercury. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:54, 6 October 2021 (EDT)
+
I recently added links to the handful of random print issues of Locus that are on Archive.org, one a very early issue and the others more recent, but I just stumbled on a huge cache of microfilmed 1973-2015 issues uploaded by MicrofilmIssueGenerator so I added a link, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5893289. Not sure if this is known about already but if not I'm sure it will come in handy here for research. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:39, 16 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
: He responded and agreed with me. --[[User:Username|Username]] 22:02, 7 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Server maintenance 2024-02-18 at 11am EST ==
  
−
== Bibliographic Projects ==
+
The server will be down for maintenance later today (2024-02-18) between 11am and 11:10am EST. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 10:20, 18 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
There is a wiki page for [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Bibliographic_Projects_in_Progress Bibliographic Projects in Progress] which hasn't really been used since 2017. I gather the page was used by a small group to co-ordinate their activities and served as a base to other project pages. I would like to see it refurbished and promoted for editors to 'suggest' projects or activities that they feel are worthwhile but do not have the time, interest or ability to work on. The additional wiki 'project' pages should be optional. Categories and rules for opening, working on or closing projects would help. Just looking for feedback before or put it on my project list. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 12:36, 7 October 2021 (EDT)
+
: The server is back up. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 11:06, 18 February 2024 (EST)
−
: Why not. We can use a space where people can leave homework they cannot (or do not want to) work on for others to follow up if they chose to. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 21:57, 7 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:: A few thoughts. First, many of these projects have been superseded by our nightly cleanup reports. For example:
+
== Sword of the Samurai ==
−
::* [[ISFDB:Stray Shortfiction]] and [[ISFDB:Stray Essays]] were superseded by the cleanup report [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?3 Titles without Pubs].
 
−
::* [[ISFDB:Serial Cleanup]] was superseded by [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?22 SERIALs without a Parent Title], [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?83 Serials without Standard Parenthetical Disambiguators] and [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?84 Serials with Potentially Unnecessary Disambiguation].
 
−
:: These Wiki-based project pages need to be reviewed to make sure that the corresponding cleanup reports cover everything, then deleted (and optionally archived.)
 
−
:: Second, some of the "select authors cleanup" projects intersect with Fixer-maintained automatically generated lists of [[User:Fixer/Clean Authors|Clean Authors]], [[User:Fixer/Waiting Authors|Waiting Authors]], [[User:Fixer/Clean Publishers|Clean Publishers]] and [[User:Fixer/Waiting Publishers|Waiting Publishers]]. These Wiki-based projects need to reviewed to see if we can incorporate their data into Fixer-maintained lists. If we can do it, we can add their data to Fixer's lists, then delete the project pages.
 
−
:: Third, some of these project pages, e.g. [[Annual Page Views - 2005]], point to author-specific Wiki pages. Since we are in the process of migrating author-specific Wiki pages to the database, these pages are effectively obsolete and can be deleted.
 
−
:: Fourth, this reminds me that I haven't looked at my [[User:Ahasuerus#To_Do_List|To Do List]] in many years. Some of the items on the list are clearly obsolete, but others, e.g. "Reconcile R. R. Haywood's ''The Undead'' series" or "Reconcile Jon F. Merz's Lawson Vampire series with the author's list", are still outstanding. They need to be reviewed and either deleted or moved to Fixer's "Waiting Authors" list.
 
−
:: [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:25, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: None of your latest example are for the Waiting List of Fixer - reconciling with an author list and reconciling with what Fixer knows are different things. So let's not mix these up. Fixer can get us what is in his DB but after that someone will need to manually check if all from the author list came through :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:08, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:::: True, my list includes a lot of tasks that can't be simply turned over to Fixer. Many tasks should be deleted because the software has changed so much over the last 10-15 years. "Change A. R. Long's canonical name to Amelia Reynolds Long once we can delete pseudonyms [sic!]" reminds me that there was a time -- not so long ago -- when we couldn't remove alternate names even if they were entered in error! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 18:20, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5894874; I have owned a copy since the 1980s and PV it here in 2022, copy uploaded to Archive.org last summer but not added until a few days ago, I think I got the right page count but if anyone disagrees feel free to tweak it a bit, you don't have to ask me. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:41, 18 February 2024 (EST)
−
::::: Well, you can complain about that last one to the developer... The DB had changed a lot just in the years I had been around, let alone the time before that. Which reminds me that I need to check my todo list as well and see if anything needs to be cleaned. ;) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:23, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:I see a note in the UK edition's record here says [236] so I think they counted the illustration between the first 19 pages and the start of the novel itself. Should that count? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:44, 18 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::I would count it one way or the other, either as part of the introductory material (so, technically on [20]) or as part of the main material.  A page number on that first page of main text would have been a useful guide.... I found an eBay listing of the Puffin edition that has some interior photographs. Not of the page in question, but the TOC and other leading material looks identical to what Archive.org shows for the edition you have.  Extrapolating that to content that follows it suggests Reginald did count that illustration as part of the main material. Given the [236] there, what I will do is tweak your count to [236] and add a note about the illustration's appearance relative to the text on the surrounding pages. Just trying to save you an edit cycle; feel free to adjust it to be however you prefer -- I do not mean to insist on anything. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 12:07, 18 February 2024 (EST)
 +
:::Sounds good, thanks. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:18, 18 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Feghoots ==
+
== Bibliographic impact of the 2023 Hugo Awards ==
  
−
We currently have Reginald Bretnor's Feghoot vignettes spread across three different series all under a single [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?9307 parent].  It appears that when ''Asimov's'' began publishing these in 1977, they applied their own numbering scheme, as did ''Amazing'' starting in 1983.  This has created a bit of a problem.  When some of the Asimov's stories were reprinted in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?37914 this 1980 collection], they continued the numbering from the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?10094 original series].  The final [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?887828 collection] which adds 22 stories beyond those from the 1980 collection. I would assume that the 5 stories from ''Asimov's'' not in the 1980 collection, and 9 from ''Amazing'' are among those 22 and the numbering follows that of the original stories.  In any case we currently have the first 8 stories from the Asimov's series duplicated in the original series (e.g. Asimov's 1 is actually 2 vignettes, "On Poaching" and "On Praying" which are 93 & 92 in the original series, Asimov's 2 is original 89).  Clearly, this isn't optimal.  So the questions are:
+
The current pre-release cover of {{A|Samantha Mills}}'s debut novel [https://www.amazon.com/Wings-Upon-Her-Back-ebook/dp/B0CVS2RDH8 ''The Wings Upon Her Back''] says "Nebula and Hugo Award Winner". On 2024-02-17 Mills disavowed the award and announced that she would have "Hugo winner" removed from future editions of the book:
−
# Do we want this as three separate series or one?
 
−
# If we keep it as three, where do we place stories that appear in more than one series?  First publication, or does the overall numbering trump?
 
−
My personal feeling is that there should really be a single series.  The Asimov's and Amazing numbers are what we would consider a publication series for book length works (i.e. they are a series only within those publications, but not when published elsewhere).  Does anyone else have thoughts on how these should be handled?  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 21:26, 7 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:It's actually even more complicated.  "[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?251651 Through Time and Space with Ferdinand Feghoot: LXIX] is the same story as "[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1486408 Feghoot LXX]" which suggests that numbering is off between the original magazine publications and the Mirage editions and at least some of our variants are off.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 21:57, 7 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: Use a single series but for each of these, use the multiS template and a note of its Asimov/Amazing number (and which it was in) so that if one day we make multiple series per title possible, we can add these numbered series back. Then we can merge/variant the texts that are the same and have and still have all the info. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:00, 7 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Illuminations by Arthur Rimbaud ==
+
* [https://samtasticbooks.com/2024/02/17/rabbit-test-unwins-the-hugo/ “Rabbit Test” unwins the Hugo]: ... on Tuesday I’ll send a very awkward email to my agent and editor summarizing the situation ... and figure out the logistics of removing “Hugo winner” from the ebook and future printings. The first print run will be a limited edition novelty, I suppose? Jeez.
  
−
I'm interested in opinions on whether [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?16831 Arthur Rimbaud's] poetry collection <i>Illuminations</i> qualifies for inclusion. There are valid points for both inclusion and exclusion. What does everyone think? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 20:04, 11 October 2021 (EDT)
+
This may not be an isolated occurrence since, as Samantha Mills wrote (among other things):
  
−
== Peter James's Possession ==
+
* On February 14, a report written by Jason Sanford and Chris M. Barkley was simultaneously released on the [https://jasonsanford.substack.com/p/the-2023-hugo-awards-a-report-on Genre Grapevine] and [https://file770.com/the-2023-hugo-awards-a-report-on-censorship-and-exclusion/ File770]. ... we also got a look at [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rhCwKLMydCto6HvXvcqjR553DqrhTfBu/view the validation list itself], aka the tables of frontrunner nominees being vetted for the final ballot, and a horrible pattern emerged, especially in the fiction categories: there were a whole lot of Chinese nominees in frontrunner positions who just… vanished, and never made it onto the final ballot. There were so many, in fact, that if I am reading this document correctly: ''not a single fiction winner'' (short story, novelette, novella, novel, or series) would have even been a finalist if those nominees hadn’t been taken off.
 +
* There’s an indicator of why in the apology letter from the admin who leaked the emails and validation tables: “We were told there was collusion in a Chinese publication that had published a nominations list, a slate as it were, and so those ballots were identified and eliminated.”
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?17348; There's a copy of the Sphere ed. on Archive.org with the same cover as on ISFDB, but opening Preview shows another cover. The copyright page looks the same as later ed., but the prices on the back are cheaper. The price on ISFDB is on the back of this Archive ed.; a copy on etsy.com has the later cover with the higher price. I fixed existing ed. and added earlier one, but I have a feeling the 1989 date may not be right for the later ed. Little info online for the earlier ed.; locusmag.com mentions it and there's a cover image on Biblio.com. If anyone knows more and can tweak or add anything let us know. Also, the cover for St. Martin's edition of Sweet Heart by Peter James was the wrong one; I felt something was wrong because I remember reading it back in the day and the cover here didn't look like the usual St. Martin's cover. I found the right one on Amazon (not many images of this edition online) and replaced it; checking further, I found an eBay copy of the edition with the previous (wrong) cover and there's an upside-down photo of the back cover with the words "Doubleday Canada" on the bottom. ISFDB has a few 1970's books by them, then there's a huge gap until 1997. I wonder how many other books by them are missing here. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:44, 12 October 2021 (EDT)
+
From our perspective, this means that we will need to:
 +
* Update the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_details.cgi?78890 “Rabbit Test” Award record] to indicate that the author disavowed the award, similar to how [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_details.cgi?9534 this award record] explains that {{A|Judy-Lynn del Rey}}'s posthumous "Best Professional Editor" award was refused by her husband {{A|Lester del Rey}}.
 +
* Keep an eye on [https://www.amazon.com/Wings-Upon-Her-Back-ebook/dp/B0CVS2RDH8 ''The Wings Upon Her Back''] to make sure that the correct covers are used for the first and any subsequent editions of the novel.
 +
* Be on the lookout for possible other announcements of authors disavowing 2023 Hugo awards.
 +
* Occasionally check "Worldcon Intellectual Property" announcements. On January 30, 2024 they issued [https://www.wsfs.org/2024/01/31/announcements-from-worldcon-intellectual-property/ a statement] censuring multiple people "for actions of the Hugo Administration Committee of the Chengdu Worldcon" and said that "There may be other actions taken or to be taken that are not in this announcement." If and when they make additional statements about the Hugos awarded at the 2023 Worldcon, we may need to update our records.
  
−
== Dick Sand - Jules Verne ==
+
[[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:55, 19 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
First time coming across this community as I am struggling down a rabbit hole.
+
: Earlier today {{A|Adrian Tchaikovsky}} disavowed his 2023 Hugo award for Best Series on [https://adriantchaikovsky.com/ his Web site]. The [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_details.cgi?78915 award record] has been updated. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:56, 21 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::These notes are exactly the correct action for us, I think.  If we had notes for an award year, it would probably be desirable to add something for the 2023 Hugos.  Although, getting a properly neutral description of the controversy free of personal biases (and I have many in this instance), would be tricky. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
I picked up a copy of Jules Verne's ''Dick Sand'' at a library sale - however, there is no publishing date on the inside cover, and the only identifying marking is the A.L. Burt Company on the side of the binding, and at the end of the book, ''A. L Burt's Books For Young People'',  which is a catalogue of book recommendations. I've been unable to find any copy with the same cover as the one I have on google images.
+
::: One of the challenges that the 2023 Hugos present is that it's still a developing story. What we knew 10 days ago is very different from what we know today. Perhaps we'll learn more in the future.
  
−
In going down the rabbit hole of trying to identify this version, I found on A.L. Burt's publishing page, that user Holmesd had previously verified a copy of another Verne work - I am unsure how to page this person and ask for help otherwise.
+
::: For example, back in late January I came across a re-post/translation of a Chinese fan's comments about the Hugos. The post stated that the fan had been involved in the Hugo process (committee member?) and that he or she had a conflict with Chinese members of the Hugo committee with various accusations flying back and forth. At the time I had trouble parsing the post, in part due to lacking context and in part due to the quality of the translation. In retrospect it may have been related to the following email sent by Dave McCarthy on June 7, 2023 at 6:18pm (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_QqmsxQkACoYcxSx2LVqbxD39-DJI_gS/view), which says:
−
Pictures attached of cover and side binding.
+
:::* Tomorrow I have a 4 hour meeting with my chinese counterparts to look at ballot detail and determine if any ballots are to be voided
−
[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/367775379324141568/897652975974117468/image1.jpg]
+
::: Perhaps either this fan or other members of the 2023 Hugo committee may clarify matters at some point. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:33, 22 February 2024 (EST)
−
[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/367775379324141568/897652975550472252/image0.jpg]
 
  
−
- Helsinki, 10:07 PM, 10/12/2021
+
:: It would especially be useful to note that the nomination totals and the EPH points appear to be completely unreliable, since those are noted in each nomination award record. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
−
: Well, you seem to have figured out how to contact Holmesd :) He will see the note on his page and will respond with whatever they know. Welcome to the DB! Not having some of the old editions online is not unusual... :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:35, 12 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: Can your book be any of these: [https://www.worldcat.org/title/dick-sand-or-a-captain-at-fifteen/oclc/1013260909?referer=di&ht=edition this] or [https://www.worldcat.org/title/dick-sand-or-a-captain-at-fifteen/oclc/1048400797?referer=di&ht=edition this]. No covers but there is some description of the illustrations, number of pages, number of plates and signatures and so on so it may help to narrow down what you have. None of them has an year but... more details make it easier to find matches. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:48, 12 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: It seems that this [https://www.worldcat.org/title/dick-sand-or-a-captain-at-fifteen/oclc/1013260909?referer=di&ht=edition] version is the correct one, ''howvever,'' it seems that there are multiple versions which fit the bill, all of them undated. [https://www.worldcat.org/title/dick-sand-or-a-captain-at-fifteen/oclc/844688256?referer=di&ht=edition] and [https://www.worldcat.org/title/dick-sand-or-a-captain-at-fifteen/oclc/3359880?referer=di&ht=edition]are also 413 pages, albeit with less distinctive information. It may be that it was put into the system multiple times by accident, given that one of them seems to be an online copy.. The good news is, the description matches the title page. However, it is mildly infuriating that the specific publishing date is unidentified, and this [https://www.worldcat.org/title/dick-sand-or-a-captain-at-fifteen/oclc/844688256?referer=di&ht=edition] one cites it at being at some point in the late 1800s, which is viable given the timeframe the A.L. Burt company operated, but it does not source it. I'm not entirely sure I have a first edition translation next to me, but I would like to rule it out. [[User:Helsinki|Helsinki]] 23:28, 12 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::: One step at a time :) Old books can take months and years to be sorted out sometimes. At least we are getting to some information. So 413 pages, 12 illustrations and vii pages before the text (and numbering starts). Older books will always have multiple OCLC pages - OCLC/Worldcat is an aggregator so if different libraries had added the records differently, especially older records, they will have separate OCLC numbers even if they are the same book. I picked the two with the most details that seems to show different versions (although who knows - there may be a type - are the illustrations in your book signed?) so we can get started from somewhere. The LCCN record is almost useless - no date from there either. From what I can see online and based on other books, that one may have been reprinted to death...
 
−
:::: Is there anything on the title page or the back of the title page that may be helpful? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 00:17, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::: Much to my chagrin, there is absolutely no other identifiers other than the illustration itself. On the bottom right corner of the illlustration, it seems to be signed by a Barrant(?), and on the left, is possibly another signature which I cannot make out, a certain M. ????.
 
−
::::: I reached out to another person of interest who did some writing on the A.L. Burt company, with sources being his own copies of books and sleeves. Unfortunately, on that particular page, there aren't any covers which match my own in style. I'm hopeful that I'll get a response, and I'm going to see if I can ask my university library for some aid as well today. [[User:Helsinki|Helsinki]] 08:19, 13 October 2021 (EDT)Helsinki
 
−
:::::: Just added to the publisher Notes giving addresses / date correlations: 1889-1896 66 Reade Street, 1896-1900 97 Reade Street, 1900-1912 52-58 Duane Street, 1912-1937 114-120 East 23rd St. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 08:22, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::::: That's a big update! I've realized that last night, as I was writing this, that I had forgotten to put the address which was handily listed in the back, along with the book recommendations. It cites as 52-58 Duane Street, New York, which I now have half a mind to visit. The main takeaway is that it narrows it down quite a bit, giving the 1900-1912 timeframe. [[User:Helsinki|Helsinki]] 08:33, 13 October 2021 (EDT) PS. Another friend of mine has sent me two interesting photos, of a copy of Mysterious Island, also by Verne. Notable is that there is the ''same illustration'' on the cover, albeit formatted differently, sans title of the book. The book itself is red, and this is the second time I've seen the cover illustration outside of my own copy. The first was on another book, untitled, but colored blue, which I can only assume is another Verne book which is not Mysterious Island.
 
−
:::::::: I have gone through the painstaking process of going through all 62 books listed in the book recommendations in the back in order to help place this. My thinking was that this particular edition of Jules Verne could not have been published before any of the books mentioned had been released, as my understanding is that the ARC system was not in place yet. The key book I found was ''Ben Bruce. Scenes in the Life of a Bowery Newsboy.'' by Horatio Alger Jr, which had been published in 1901, from what I can find. Therefore, this copy cannot be older than 1901, which narrows the range further. The current range this could exist in is 1901-1910, which narrows things down only by a year, but progress is progress. This also aligns with the other book illustration, which was at least from 1901 or earlier. Thank you for bearing with me. [[User:Helsinki|Helsinki]] 10:24, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== The Greenlanders - that's not really genre ==
+
::: One thing that comes to mind is that we could change the way opening sentences are phrased. Instead of the current "1674 valid ballots cast, 944 valid ballots cast in category" we could say something like "According to the [https://www.thehugoawards.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/2023-Hugo-Award-Stats-Final.pdf voting statistics] released [https://www.thehugoawards.org/2024/01/2023-nominating-and-final-ballot-statistics-published/?ref=astrolabe.aidanmoher.com on 2024-01-20], there were 1674 valid ballots cast, 944 valid ballots cast in category". It's not much, but it would at least clarify which version of the stats our records use. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:20, 22 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::::I've added your suggested text to the records in the Best Novel category.  In addition to the ballot count at the head, I've also added it to the nomination numbers at the foot.  I think it's more important there as that is where there is evidence of shenanigans. In any case, let me know if it looks good and I can update the remaining records or we tweak it if desired. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 21:26, 27 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::::: Everything looks good, thanks. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 22:40, 27 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
We have Jane Smiley's [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?14806 The Greenlanders] in the db and looking at the tag, it matches one of the Amazon categories (historical fantasy). However, Amazon uses that category for both speculative and non-speculative (not our type of fantasy) and this specific book has no speculative elements at all (not even a wise woman that can do seemingly magical tricks with plants - it is purely a historical epic). Any objections to deleting it from the DB? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:04, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:: I recall that award year notes has been suggested before and there may be a feature request, though I suspect that how the award tables are structured may make this difficult. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
−
:Nope. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:31, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Locus Poll Award - "(old)" categories ==
+
::: Yes, indeed. {{FR|1086}}, "Change the award year field to a drop-down list", says "Create a new record type for award years. We can call it something like "award year" or "award ceremony". Once we have it, we will be able to add notes to award years. Notes can be used to specify when the awards were announced, when and where they were given, eligibility rules changes, etc." Unfortunately, as you said, it would be fairly time-consuming to implement. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:12, 22 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
Prompted by [https://twitter.com/jamesdnicoll/status/1449042832384270344 this tweet] - are there any particular reasons for having roughly two dozen of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/awardtype.cgi?28 the Locus Poll Award] categories tagged with "(old)"? It doesn't appear to be directly correlated with defunct categories they no longer present, as there are counterexamples that aren't tagged so [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_category.cgi?381+0 e.g. #1], [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_category.cgi?336+0 e.g. #2].
+
:: In any case, I do have one suggestion for the del Rey award record. We currently have the explanation of the non-acceptance of the award noted in the title field of what should be an untitled award. Perhaps we didn't have award level notes at the point that award was added. I feel that the verbiage in the title should be moved to notes and replaced with "untitled". --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
Some cursory Googling didn't appear to show any use of "old" in conjunction with these awards outside ISFDB, and I wasn't able to find anything relevant in the search functionality for this wiki.  Is this maybe something that could/should be further explained in the award type note? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 12:25, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
+
::: I agree. It's exactly as you said -- award records didn't have a Notes field back then. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:12, 22 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::::I've updated [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_details.cgi?9534 this] and expanded the comment as a note taking my queue from Judy-Lynn's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy-Lynn_del_Rey Wikipedia article].  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 21:26, 27 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
:While none of the categories so marked have been awarded since the 70s, I don't think it adds anything to disambiguate categories no longer awarded with current ones.  There is only [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_category.cgi?529+0 one] other category for a different award that has been marked this way.  My opinion is that the parenthetical disambiguators should be removed from both the Locus and World Fantasy categories.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 17:47, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
+
::::: Thanks. I have hyper-linked Lester del Rey's name and clarified that he was Judy-Lynn's husband. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 22:40, 27 February 2024 (EST)
−
:: I support the removal of (old) where it is unneeded. And if it remains somewhere, the Note on the Award level and the notes on each category level should be explaining the usage. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:07, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: And if we need to keep any of them with a weird name, can we use (year-year) format and not (old) to show which years they were given in? It will keep it a lot cleaner and clearer and a lot less weird when you open the list... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:10, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
::: Comparing our categories with what's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_Award listed by Wikipedia], it looks like our "(old)" categories match Wikipedia's "inactive" categories.
+
== Kater-Bound ==
  
−
::: I agree that we should remove all occurrences of "(old)" and update each discontinued category's Note field wit an explanation of what happened to it: some were merged, others were split, etc. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:34, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?22308; On all of the web there seems to be only 1 mention of Borgo Press and Kater-Bound together, https://www.lawrenceperson.com/?p=22429, although it does get a handful of hits in a text search, https://archive.org/search?query=%22kater-bound%22+%22borgo%22&sin=TXT&sort=-addeddate. This Archive.org page, https://archive.org/search?query=compton+farewell+bliss&sort=-addeddate, shows 2 editions with one being Borgo but with price on front covered and Kater-Bound sticker on back. Could this be the mysterious Borgo HC mentioned in the book's record? Also, the note about artist is wrong because he's credited on copyright page and back cover, the latter of which can be seen in the cover image. TP PV doesn't respond much so I'm asking on this board. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:09, 19 February 2024 (EST)
 +
:The Archive.org copy is a library book, and Kater-Craft does library bindings. I believe it is not uncommon to have a retail hardcover edition and a library-binding hardcover edition of the same book. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 17:44, 19 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::Believe it or not, I have library hardcover versions of Ace Doubles.  All should be listed in my opinion. [[User:MLB|MLB]] ([[User talk:MLB|talk]]) 01:00, 20 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== SFE changes ==
+
== Miriam Allen de Ford ==
  
−
The Online edition of [https://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/ The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction] has undergone a number of changes since October 1. They have parted ways with their sponsor, changed servers, upgraded from HTTP to HTTPS, changed the URLs of some Web pages, etc. The project is now known as "the Encyclopedia of Science Fiction, Fourth Edition" as opposed to the 2011-2021 "Third Edition".
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Per the ''Spaces in Names'' subsection of [[:Template:PublicationFields:Author]], Miriam Allen de Ford should be standardized as {{A|Miriam Allen deFord}}. However, we have a {{A|Miriam Allen de Ford}} alternate name which was recently edited so the notes copy the rules saying it should be standardized. Instead, I propose we merge the alternate name to the canonical name in accordance with the rules. As there are a number of verified pubs, I will point the verifiers to the this discussion, If there are any objections, then we should probably have a Rules and standards discussions. Thanks. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 18:28, 19 February 2024 (EST)
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:I guess it would be like calling somebody named MacIntosh being called Mac Intosh. Still, I'll go with the majority. [[User:MLB|MLB]] ([[User talk:MLB|talk]]) 00:58, 20 February 2024 (EST)
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::No objection to merging, but I think the actual spelling of the name should be made clear in the notes. [[User:Linguist|Linguist]] ([[User talk:Linguist|talk]]) 04:06, 20 February 2024 (EST).
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:::No objection, I had three pubs, two in Croatian language I already corrected, but I have also one in Serbian language. In Serbian language names are written as they are pronounced, in this case same as written. Should I change this one as well? This is publication in question: https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2277217 {{unsigned|Debolestis}}
  
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These changes affect us in a variety of ways. I have updated the ISFDB software to accommodate most of them, but Al and I are still working on certain outstanding technical issues behind the scenes.
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== Ruben De Anda ==
  
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The good news is that pretty much all existing ISFDB links to SFE's author pages still work. Links to the Encyclopedia of Fantasy also work, but they redirect from "sf-encyclopedia.uk" to "sf-encyclopedia.com". It's not clear how long the redirects will remain active. I will ask the SFE crew about their long term plans.
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1476655; https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2552505; Can anyone find proof that these are the same artists? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:45, 20 February 2024 (EST)
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:I don't know. But [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?107431 The Galaxy Primes] (Ace 1976) appears also to be signed by R. De Anda. [[User:Horzel|Horzel]] ([[User talk:Horzel|talk]]) 08:52, 23 February 2024 (EST)
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::Probably is but since last name is mostly covered it's hard to tell. PV Willem H. noted that it may be Rafael M. De Soto but I doubt it because he has no original cover credits on ISFDB after 1964 and this book is from 1976. There's a copy on Archive.org which I've added a link to in a PENDING edit. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:44, 23 February 2024 (EST)
  
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The "SFE3" template has been changed to "SFE" and its name has been changed to "Online Edition of the Encyclopedia of Science Fiction" to reflect the fact that it covers all SFE editions after the second one (which has a separate template.) I have converted all occurrences of the "SFE3" template manually since it has been used only 16 times. Changing plain text references from "SFE3" to the SFE template will take longer due to the number of affected records. As per the Advanced Notes Search:
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== Steve Miller: RIP ==
  
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*    Authors (119)
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For those who may not have seen an announcement, [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?214 Steve Miller], co-author of the Liaden Universe, et al., died on February 20, 2024 at his home in Maine. His wife, author [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?418 Sharon Lee], posted [https://korval.com/2024/02/21/steven-richard-miller-1950-2024/ this obituary]. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 07:41, 22 February 2024 (EST)
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*    Award Types (1)
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:I added photo from FantLab which is a little bigger and shows his face better than Fantastic Fiction's photo. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 17:42, 22 February 2024 (EST)
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*    Publications (279)
 
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*    Publishers (3)
 
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*    Series (30)
 
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*    Synopses (77)
 
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*    Titles (170)  
 
  
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[[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:44, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
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== Last User Activity ==
  
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== Award (Mexico): Premio Nacional de Cuento Fantástico y de Ciencia Ficción ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?895338; What does this mean exactly? There was a question of contacting this PV RedDragonBooks about something related to a mod note I made and checking their page the last answer they gave or contribution they made was in spring of 2022 but the activity at the bottom of the record linked above says a few days ago. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:03, 22 February 2024 (EST)
  
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I suggest the addition of this award: [http://www.elem.mx/institucion/datos/1671 Premio Nacional de Cuento Fantástico y de Ciencia Ficción], an annual award for a scifi/fantasy short story written by in Spanish by a Mexican resident. An example winner listed on ISFDB is the short story [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2922040 La pequeña guerra] by Mauricio-José Schwarz, the [http://www.elem.mx/autor/datos/1006 1984 winner].
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:There are two databases: The wiki and the bibliographic database. What you see for User Contributions on their user/talk page is just their Wiki edits. What you see for Last User Activity in the verifiers' list is the date of their last activity in the bibliographic side -- the Wiki software does not know about that, only about the Wiki. That user did some verifications on 2024-02-18 but hasn't posted anything to the wiki in the past couple of years. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 13:56, 22 February 2024 (EST)
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[[User:Morebooks|Morebooks]] 18:16, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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: Looks like a legitimate award. Do we have a volunteer who would be willing and able to enter any missing titles and the award records? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:23, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
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:: Just a quick note to clarify that the software that displays the Last User Activity date checks both the Wiki side and the database side. It then displays the latest date that it finds. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:36, 22 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Interzone PV ==
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== Ermengarde Fisk = Evelyn E. Smith? ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?147582; saw this, fixed 1990 error because it's on philsp.com, but book reviews aren't listed separately so I can't fix the 1986 one; searched for Interzone #18 on Archive.org and couldn't find anything. PV is long gone, and I wonder how many other errors they made when entering magazines' contents; their name shows up very often while I'm editing. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:36, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
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One of my friends pointed me at [https://www.fanac.org/fanzines/Oopsla/Oopsla10.pdf#view=Fit issue #10 of the 'zine Oopsla], specifically page 13. The "SHORT STORIES" section says:
  
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: Well, [[User:Hauck]] is responsible for [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/topcontrib.cgi 173,962 submission], so even if his error rate were only 0.3%, it would still be over 500 errors. A more realistic rate of 1.2% would mean a couple of thousand errors.
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  Third goes to another brand-new author, [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?1254 Evelyn E. Smith] ... is better known to fandom as the pseudonymous authoress of the "New York Letter" column in Slant--yeah, that's right, she's [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?266764 Ermengarde Fiske].
  
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: It's kind of a Catch-22 -- the more submissions you create, the more errors will slip in. The only way to lower the rate is to have multiple eyes examining the same pubs. Ideally, we would convince one or more [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_clam giant clams] to join the project since they have hundreds of eyes :-) [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:12, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
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As I don't know what the accuracy of fan writing was like nearly two decades before I was born, I don't know how reliable this info might be.  Any objections to varianting these author records?  [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] ([[User talk:ErsatzCulture|talk]]) 13:49, 23 February 2024 (EST)
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: We already have a pseudonym there: Evelyn Smythe (intentional corruption of Evelyn Smyth E.?) which I think is based exactly on the note you cited above. I am not sure if we have enough evidence to connect the two Evelyn E. Smith's though - while very very likely, the name is not very uncommon. Maybe add some notes to both accounts until we find a better proof that the two are one and the same? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 14:50, 23 February 2024 (EST)
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:: Never mind, I looked at the fanzine itself now - you actually missed the smoking gun while quoting - that award over there is for a story that belongs to Evelyn E. Smith (Tea Tray in the Sky) - so yes, they are the same person. Connect them away. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 14:54, 23 February 2024 (EST)
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::: This is now done. Had a bit of a headscratcher with Ermengarde Fiske having its own alternate names, but I think everything is now correct, with all the authors pointing at Evelyn E. Smith as the canonical, and all of the title records having parent titles with that author record.  However I wouldn't say no if someone wants to double check that everything is now as it should be.  Thanks! [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] ([[User talk:ErsatzCulture|talk]]) 13:44, 27 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Missing Werewolf ==
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== J. Watson ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?7305; This might be unpublished; no holdings on Worldcat, no cover images, nothing. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:38, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?224483; What do you suggest is best to add to differ 1966 Thunderbirds artist from Leading Edge writer/artist? He's on Wikipedia so I'll add that link (as Jim Watson). --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:48, 24 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Gateway To Hell ==
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: See [[Help:How_to_separate_two_authors_with_the_same_name]] for ideas.  Looks like "James Watson (1960s)" would work here and might be more helpful than "(I)". The situation is quite similar to the Jame Cooper examples given in that bullet.  In light of the disparity in volume between their bibliographies, I think you could treat the James Watson from the 1980s as "more prominent/widely known in the Spec-Fic world" and leave it with no embedded disambiguation. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 12:04, 25 February 2024 (EST)
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::OK, thanks. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:30, 25 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?353266; Added missing info from Fantlab, but it's just a novel, not an omnibus. Would deleting the extra novels and changing Omnibus to Novel suffice? --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:11, 16 October 2021 (EDT)
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== Tem Title ==
  
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== Fear of the Unknown ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?67830; Archived link to recently uploaded Chrysalis 9 HC just added by me in a PENDING edit, PV doesn't respond much, PB has one or two active PV so if they can verify it's Hit-and-Run there, too, not Hit-and-Miss, title should be changed. I vaguely remember asking about this long ago after noticing title was different in Tem's online bibliography. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 15:32, 25 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?73872; I added page #'s to the stories using ecampus.com, which is the only place I can find that has them, and the last story starts on p. 221. Problem is ISFDB and every other site I can find says the book is 210 pages. Mysterious; does anyone have a print copy? --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:00, 16 October 2021 (EDT)
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== The Hole of the Pit ==
  
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== Subterranean Shorts ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal/Archive/Archive53#Uncanny_Banquet_and_Leisure; Exactly a year-and-a-half ago I asked about Uncanny Banquet and noted the rare novel contained in it; a copy of the Oleander Press edition including the novel with a short story and a poem was recently added to Archive.org so I've added a link in a PENDING edit. Still waiting for a copy of that anthology to show up somewhere...anywhere. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:55, 25 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?308665; I added cover to View from Hell by John Shirley, saw #4 on cover, realized it was part of Subterranean's Short Novel Series, but David J. Schow's novel Rock Breaks Scissors Cut is already #4 in that series on ISFDB. However, it's date is not aligned with the others in the series, so I don't know what's going on with this, and whether Schow's novel is really part of that series; Shirley's novel definitely is, so I'm keeping that edit. Anyone know more? --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:56, 16 October 2021 (EDT)
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== Series sort order? ==
  
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== Killing Bottle ==
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I was looking at a [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?2278 page for a series] and couldn't figure out the basis for the order of the sub-series. First come the numbered sub-series, in numerical order. Then the 'loose' items in chronological order. Then come the unnumbered sub-series, which are neither alphabetical or chronological by any of their contained titles. Is there a particular order to them? ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] ([[User talk:Holmesd|talk]]) 09:04, 28 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?42425; Worldcat link is odd because the subject and contents are clearly not for this book; this, https://www.worldcat.org/title/killing-bottle/oclc/560867805/editions, lists other editions. Would it be better to enter all of them, pick the most complete one, exclude the one currently here because of the wrong info, etc.? Looking further, the other 3 Worldcat links are mostly empty, and I can't find a cover image, so was this really published? --[[User:Username|Username]] 17:32, 17 October 2021 (EDT)
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: The only order that the display software enforces is as you described above: all numbered sub-series are displayed first and the rest are displayed randomly. I think it would be fairly easy to display unnumbered sub-series alphabetically. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Old New Stories ==
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::: (after edit conflict) A more thorough review discovered that Summary pages were already sorting unnumbered sub-series alphabetically. I have adjusted the software to do the same on Series pages. Thanks for identifying the problem! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?89189; Entered in 2008, then more than 12 years went by until more work was done on it, but nobody noticed the contents are all old but most have new dates. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:26, 17 October 2021 (EDT)
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::Since series tend to be written in order, displaying the unnumbered titles in chronological order may make more sense. Although, sub-series wouldn't have a date and extrapolating the date from the earliest contained title would be more complex. Perhaps, numbered items followed by unnumbered sub-series followed by everything else in chronological order. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 18:34, 28 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Crediting translations to author bibliographys ==
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::: Could you please clarify what you mean by "items" in this case? Series may contain both title records and sub-series records. They use different, unrelated, numbering systems. For example, a series may contain 3 titles numbered "0.5", "1" and "2", as well as two sub-series numbered "1" and "2". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 19:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
  
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Is there a reason translations are not credited to an author's bibliography page?  A separate heading would be my first choice. A separate page, like awards, would be less useful. The information could come from the translator template. I'm sure there are many tiles where a translator was noted, but, the template was not used. These could be fixed over time. What do you think? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 12:21, 18 October 2021 (EDT)
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::::I intended items to mean both title records amd sub-series records, either of which may be numbered. What I was suggesting is that within a series (parent), each numbered item would display based on the numbering. In your example, there would be a conflict as there are both titles numbered "1" and "2" and sub-series numbered "1" and "2". Ideally, we would never assert that both a title and a sub-series should occur first in the parent series. Clearly, numbering only applies within the parent series. I believe that for numbered "items", I am not suggesting any changes to how things currently work. I had suggested a chronological sort for the remaining items based on your now corrected statement that they were displayed randomly. Given that we're already sorting alphabetically, it's probably fine to leave things as they are, unless others think a chronological sort would be preferable. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 21:13, 28 February 2024 (EST)
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: Translations are always varianted do the originals and show up under them. The only exceptions are the random collections, anthologies and omnibuses which are not direct translations. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:28, 18 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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: If you mean when translators are also authors - that’s part of the reason we have the Translator template. One day that’s the plan technically. But not there yet. And not as many as you think - we have been doing major cleanup to get them all templates so we can use them when we have the roles set properly. The topic has quite a lot of history. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:30, 18 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:: Even if they are not an author, I would like to see a bibliography generated for their translations. Treat translator the same as author, artist, etc. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 13:12, 18 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::: So do we all. :) It is in the plans for one day (hopefully that day will come)- as part of a much bigger discussion/project on allowing additional roles - Narrators for audiobooks, Editors for novels, Cover Designers and so on. Some have templates now (Translator, Narrator). Some may get one if someone decides to work on them.
 
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::: Until a few years ago, we did not even record translators properly (and the template did not exist - in the first months we spent a lot of time splitting previously merged translations from different people - we still have some but... we are getting there). A few years earlier, we did not support non Latin characters in titles and author names (using Latin transliterations or Japanese and Russian titles was... interesting). :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:31, 18 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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::: (after edit conflict) We certainly want to be able to generate lists of works translated by individual translators. However, deciding on a viable design has proven difficult, e.g. see [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal/Archive/Archive42#Adding_support_for_translators_and_possibly_other_roles this 2017 discussion], in which I wrote "The issue of translator support has been open for close to 5 years now".
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== BattleTech Universe ==
  
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::: The big challenge with capturing translator names is that they are associated with ''title records''. Currently New/Add/Edit/Clone Publication pages have 4 separate sections for 4 different kinds of titles: artist, regular, review, interview. We can't just add a 5th section for translations because translations are associated with ''individual'' titles. What we need to do is update "Edit Title" and capture the translator(s)' name(s) in a new infinitely repeating field. Then we have to deal with the fact that many translators use alternate names, so we need a mechanism for linking them to their canonical names, which would require a great deal of work behind the scenes.
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The [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?1991 BattleTech Universe] series and it's sub-series all list having an Issue Grid, which suggests they are Serials / Magazines. They look like books to me. Is it a mistake in the software or entry? Might the existence of one Serial in the series propagate? ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] ([[User talk:Holmesd|talk]]) 09:12, 29 February 2024 (EST)
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: Yep - if there is one magazine series somewhere in the sub series inside of a bigger series, the whole set and any sunsets of it shows the grid links. It is how the software is built. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 10:00, 29 February 2024 (EST)
  
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::: A full-blown implementation would be time consuming, which means that there are always higher priority issues to work on. Our attempts to come up with a temporary palliative solution have been unsuccessful so far. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:34, 18 October 2021 (EDT)
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:: Good catch. {{Bug|842}}, "Extraneous 'View Issue Grid' links on series pages", has been created. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:15, 29 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Tom Clancy's Net Force  ==
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== Database Backup ==
  
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We have the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?7916 complete original series] (and the young adult [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?7924 spin-off]). Why is that genre and does not get caught under the "Techno-thriller, political thriller and satire works set in a future indistinguishable from the present (?)" exclusion? Yes, the reality is different as time progresses but that is valid for every single long thriller series out there - even if it starts current, they diverge enough sooner or later to make an argument for being alternate history (which kinda defeats the exception we have). What am I missing with this series?
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Can you please save the database with InnoDB utf8mb4 so accented and Chinese characters will show up correctly? As it now with MyISAM utf8, Иван Константинович Айвазовский shows up as &#1048;&#1074;&#1072;&#1085;&#1050;&#1086;&#1085;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1085;&#1090;&#1080;&#1085;&#1086;&#1074;&#1080;&#1095; &#1040;&#1081;&#1074;&#1072;&#1079;&#1086;&#1074;&#1089;&#1082;&#1080;&#1081;. It makes it hard to work with the database and makes it a lot larger than it has to be. {{unsigned|Catpoolfan}}
  
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There was a revival a few years ago - and a new book is about to come out - so that made me wonder why we have these in the DB... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:10, 18 October 2021 (EDT)
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: For historical reasons -- the ISFDB project started in 1995 -- ISFDB tables use "latin1_swedish_ci". You can see it if you run "SELECT TABLE_CATALOG, TABLE_SCHEMA, TABLE_NAME, TABLE_COLLATION FROM INFORMATION_SCHEMA.TABLES" in MySQL. Non-Latin-1 Unicode characters are stored in the database as HTML entities. When you see "&#1081;" (i.e. "&#1081") displayed, that's because that's what's stored in the database.
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:I'd consider them near future science fiction. I don't see a problem with keeping them. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:11, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:: My only problem is that they open the door for at least 50% of the thrillers out there... but sure. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:16, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:::I'd rather err on the side of inclusion. If they are slightly science fiction, I think they should be included, even if only borderline. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:20, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:::: I think we are drawing the line for this exclusion in different places but that’s fine. :) I don’t remember anything that eleven remotely pinged as genre for me when I read them - especially because they kinda came out from the Op Center sequence and as such are not different from later volumes in other thriller series . Maybe time for a reread :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 21:49, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:::::Yeah, if they don't have any at all, then they shouldn't be here. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:50, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Kevin J. Anderson collection ==
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: There are plans to migrate from HTML entities to native Unicode, but it will be a major project with a number of dependencies. There is no ETA at this time. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 10:42, 1 March 2024 (EST)
  
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How is {{P|679592|this}} different from {{P|679601|this}}? Should one be deleted?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 01:14, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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== I Stole You ==
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: One of them says "This is a limited edition of 250" and the other does not. And they have different covers...
 
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: The question is - was the whole run 250 or did the publisher produce a 250-copies special run and a trade run in parallel? And which cover belongs where - one has colors, the other does not - so unless one of them was a mockup, we may have two different versions... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 01:35, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::They are definitely two versions of the same thing (one limited and one not). I have both copies and have verified the information on them now. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 21:31, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::: Both with the same price? Just making sure we are not overlooking something in both records while we have a live PV. . [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 21:50, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::::Yes. The price is on the spine. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:51, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Devil Tales ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisheryear.cgi?60942+2017; A copy of Tripping... was recently uploaded so I added a link and the stories' numbers, there's also supposedly a copy of Ringman's collection but when I saw the red hardcover I knew that couldn't be right and it wasn't; it's a copy of some old romance novel by Jane Aiken Hodge. I checked all the usual sites but can't get contents page of TP so if anyone can or owns a copy fill in the page numbers if you wish. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 17:40, 1 March 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?11167; added page #'s from Archive copy; the 2 varianted stories on ISFDB are not really variants; they're spelled exactly the same way in this book, too. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:46, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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== Mandarin ==
  
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: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?262155 The publication record for the 1972 edition] says "Contents' page numbers from Archive.org copy", but the Archive.org copy is not linked. Could you please link it? Once I confirm that we are looking at the same publication, I will merge the title records. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:45, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5905095; Is anyone familiar with Mandarin paperbacks who can say why ISBN on back cover doesn't match any other Mandarin PB on ISFDB which (almost) all start with 0-7493? This book's ISBN, 0-09, seems to have been used by Cresset per online searching but there is no mention of them anywhere in it; a couple of Cresset Editions books on ISFDB do have an ISBN which starts with that. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:14, 2 March 2024 (EST)
  
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:: As I've explained several times here recently, I only link directly to Archive links when they're public domain, fully-readable books or in rare cases where I feel there's a good reason to. Many things in the Archive are not supposed to be there, and get taken down because of copyright complaints frequently. I read a scary essay recently outlining the shady practices of the Archive and how they get a lot of their books; if I could remember where I read it I would link it here. While the original edition of Devil Tales is public domain, the 1972 reprint isn't. That's why I provide Open Library ID's, so people can see the book is available on the Archive and choose for themselves whether they want to click on their links. If you want to click the OL link, fine. If not, let me know, and I'll try to just merge those 2 stories myself, although that usually goes badly for me. --[[User:Username|Username]] 16:34, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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== Donkerste Dag ==
  
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::: Thanks for clarifying. I have found Archive.org's scan of the 1972 edition and merged the titles. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 18:00, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5905146; Nico Richter has 1 credit on ISFDB for a German Neil Gaiman edition but here he's credited for design. Sheila Metzner is a famed artist and I don't know what Ortikol is so if anyone thinks any of them should be entered as cover artist they can do that. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 14:12, 2 March 2024 (EST)
  
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== Locked Record ==
+
== Shadow Regions ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?639961; Found eBay photo with contents but can't enter #'s because entire record is locked here. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:59, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295434; The woman who ran the publisher whose imprint put out this anthology, Tammy Perron, apparently was a crook who didn't pay most of the authors or even give some of them copies which is detailed in the link from Absolute Write that I added some time ago. In September 2023 some mysterious person uploaded a copy on Archive.org and it was finally added a few weeks ago (I stumbled on it completely by accident) so I've added a link in a PENDING edit along with the price and the stories' numbers. Maybe it was one of the authors using their own copy because this seems a very rare book with WorldCat not finding any copies; there's only 1 sad review on Goodreads where one of the authors crows about having a story in it...little did he know. According to ISFDB only 3 of the 20 stories have been reprinted since it came out nearly two decades ago so if anyone was interested in reading it you should do so because you never know if old Tammy may crawl out of the woodwork to have it taken down. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:55, 2 March 2024 (EST)
  
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: Could you please clarify what you mean when you say that the record is locked? Most Content fields are not editable because they are shared across multiple publications, but the "Page" field should be editable. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:36, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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== Adam L. G. Nevill canonical name ==
  
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:: I mean that after finding a photo of the contents pages on eBay the page #'s can't be added because clicking boxes to enter them isn't allowed, and clicking in a blank space on the page and pressing spacebar to scroll down doesn't work, either, so something behind the scenes is probably awry which needs fixing by a mod, like you. This is a very recent anthology so the idea that all stories would be in other pubs. is very unlikely; either that or I am doing something wrong, but that's not very likely, either. --[[User:Username|Username]] 16:24, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
+
I think it is time to swap the canonical name [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?134040 here] to Adam L. G. Nevill. Any objections? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 15:18, 4 March 2024 (EST)
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::: We have two copies of the anthology - the ebook and the hc versions - that's why all stories are grey - they are in the two separate publication records - so yes, they are in two different books (as you can see if you click on a [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2277083 story]. So you cannot edit their dates, titles or authors from inside of the publication. However - the page numbers should be editable - I can go to them both with a mouse and with a keyboard tapping down from the top.  
 
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::: What browser are you using and what addons do you have enabled? Disable/uninstall them one by one and see if you can edit the fields - something is interfering and it is not the site. That has nothing to do with Mod vs non-Mod (yep, just tried with my test account - no issues with it either) - this is most likely an addon/plugin doing something it should not because of how the page is written and how it interprets it (or a browser being obstinate). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:40, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:::: Also, please note that it's important to make sure that your browser displays ISFDB pages the same way that it does it for all other editors. If you are seeing different results -- whether it's due to an add-on, an out of date browser, a virus or something else -- it will not only impeded editing, but it will also make it hard for other editors and moderators to communicate with you since you will be seeing different results. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:05, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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: We have 8 book-length works as by {{A|Adam Nevill}} and 8 book titles as by {{A|Adam L. G. Nevill}}. All books published over the last 5 years have appeared exclusively as by "Adam L. G. Nevill". SHORTFICTION: 8 as by "Adam Nevill" and 27 as by "Adam L. G. Nevill".
  
−
::::: Well, now it's working. At 12:00 all fields were grayed out, but a few hours later I'm suddenly able to enter page #'s. Don't know what happened, don't care. Edit awaiting approval. --[[User:Username|Username]] 17:26, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
+
: Given the numbers and the timeline, I think it's fair to say that "Adam L. G. Nevill" is the most recognizable form of his name within the genre as of 2024. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 16:19, 4 March 2024 (EST)
−
:::::: In the future, please add the link to ebay photo in the moderator notes. While we really do not want random ebay links in the notes and the permanent record for anyone finding the page online, all information need to be SOURCED. Which means that the approving moderator needs to check the data you are entering (the two sets of eyes system) when possible. When you do not provide a source that can be checked (when it is an online source - when it is a paper source, it needs to be indicated properly so someone with the same source can look it up so we tend to take one's word for it and just verify that the source exists as a book and is properly identified), you leave the moderators two options - reject or lose the time to try to find the photo you were looking at. So please link it here this time and in the future, please add the links to the moderator notes. I will keep the record on hold in the meantime. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:35, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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::::::: https://picclick.com/Dark-Places-Evil-Faces-Mark-Lumby-PS-Publishing-304032021973.html. --[[User:Username|Username]] 17:53, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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== The Under-People ==
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:::::::: Are you resubmitting or should I unreject [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5125068 the edit] you rejected for some reason? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:15, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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::::::::: Unreject. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:39, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3046564; https://archive.org/search?query=the-under-people&sort=-addeddate; No reason for this to be here, it's one of dozens of junk science "non-fiction" books by Norman/Steiger published back in the day. I think it should be deleted. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:52, 4 March 2024 (EST)
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:::::::::: Done. Thanks. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:40, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Incorrect Bibliographic Warnings ==
+
== Collection contents question ==
  
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Since I started adding the Baen CD-ROM Library titles, I have noticed that the component titles are now showing "Missing ISBN/Catalog ID" and "Missing page count" bibliographic errors related to the those Baen CD-ROM Library titles. Since those titles will never have any of the missing data indicated by the warnings, could the warning criteria be tweaked to exclude displaying warnings where the format type is "other"? That would eliminate the useless warnings. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 12:58, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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When adding contents to a collection which is authored using a variant name, if there is no indication to the contrary, should all the content titles be attributed to the variant author name and then be made a variant of the canonical author name titles if they do not exist? Example: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?804222 The Witching Hour]. The collection author is James Gunn. The copyright page shows the content copyrights as by James Gunn. The included content titles only exist as by the canonical name James E. Gunn. Should these be changed to being authored by James Gunn and then made into variants? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 09:28, 5 March 2024 (EST)
 +
: Yes. Remove the three fiction titles, add the three new titles and variant to the canonicals. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 09:57, 5 March 2024 (EST)
 +
::Done. Thanks.[[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 11:05, 5 March 2024 (EST)
  
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: Well, the format value "other" covers a variety of scenarios. The pubs listed by [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?USE_1=pub_ptype&O_1=exact&TERM_1=other&C=AND&USE_2=pub_title&O_2=exact&TERM_2=&USE_3=pub_title&O_3=exact&TERM_3=&USE_4=pub_title&O_4=exact&TERM_4=&USE_5=pub_title&O_5=exact&TERM_5=&USE_6=pub_title&O_6=exact&TERM_6=&USE_7=pub_title&O_7=exact&TERM_7=&USE_8=pub_title&O_8=exact&TERM_8=&USE_9=pub_title&O_9=exact&TERM_9=&USE_10=pub_title&O_10=exact&TERM_10=&ORDERBY=pub_title&ACTION=query&START=0&TYPE=Publication Advanced Publication Search] when run for "Format is exactly other, Sort by Title" mostly have page count values and many have ISBNs and/or Catalogue IDs. Baen-produced CD-ROMs do not, but they are just a subset of the 600+ "other" pubs which we currently have on file. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:24, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Hautala Covers ==
  
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::I should have guessed it wouldn't be that simple. Is there another way to keep those warnings from showing up? While they can just be ignored, there are likely to be well over 1000 of these invalid warnings once I'm done entering the Baen CD-ROM library titles. I just hate seeing noise mess up displays and useful reports if there's a reasonable way to eliminate them. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 14:47, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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I was entering edits for Rick Hautala books, found Jacobus signature on Moon Walker so Tim Jacobus was entered as the artist; Little Brothers, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?20465, has a name or initials on the lower right, can anyone find out who that is? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:45, 5 March 2024 (EST)
  
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::: Nothing in the software as it currently exists, I am afraid. We have a "Do not display bibliographic warnings on Title pages" preference under [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/mypreferences.cgi User Preferences], but that only applies to the current user.
+
== ISFDB Server downtime -- 2024-03-06 at 6pm ==
  
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::: One thing that we could do is change the software not to display bibliographic warnings for primary-verified pubs. It seems fairly likely that if a primary-verified pub is missing one or more common field values, there is a reason for it. The reason I say "fairly likely" is that primary verifications can be done by anyone, including new and inexperienced editors who may not realize that they missed something. Still, it may be better than what we have now. We could even suppress bibliographic warnings for pubs with secondary verifications, but that would be even chancier. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:23, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance on 2024-03-06 between 6:00pm and 6:15pm EST. Both the database and the Wiki will be unavailable. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:13, 6 March 2024 (EST)
  
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== Rare (?) Book of SF Essays ==
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: The server is back up. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:05, 6 March 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?1645; Strange that a semi-recent book from a major publisher like Doubleday with essays by some big SF authors would be so hard to find info for, but that's the case here. Cover image is scarce, price also, and only place I could find with page numbers was Google Books, but extracting them was harder than usual. So when my edit is approved shortly if someone here has an actual print copy and can verify #'s are correct, and if there's any useable info on the flaps, can you respond here? --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:12, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
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== Simulacrum ==
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:I actually just ordered this book off Abe. They had a picture of the cover, so I uploaded it. I'll verify the rest of it once I receive it. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 22:10, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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:: I found the price on Fanac and the cover is on Amazon so I added both to my edit, but if your cover is better it would be good to have it in the Wiki; if possible when you get the book you could scan the whole cover and then ISFDB may be the only site on the web that has it. Page #'s are probably correct, but there may be a cover artist/designer on the back flap or maybe a date including the month. --[[User:Username|Username]] 09:02, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
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Tonight I accidentally ended up on the archived SpecFicWorld site which used to be a major hub of speculative fiction but seems to have entirely disappeared from the modern web (whatever you do, don't type specficworld.com on Google and click the link whose description is "Daftar Situs Agen Judi Slot Online Terpercaya Resmi 2023"; that will NOT lead you to what you're looking for). Only issue #9 of Simulacrum, edited and published by the guy who ran the site, Doyle Eldon Wilmoth, Jr., has an archived PDF link but while searching, as I usually do, for random text from an archived story on Google to try and find out if there are any modern sites that still include it I got one hit, the late Tanith Lee's site daughterofthenight.com, because that issue included a reprint of a story by her from Interzone Magazine. That led me to this, https://archive.org/details/@zatoichi01?query=simulacrum&sort=title, which, according to Galactic Central, is the entire 14-issue run. I rarely enter magazines but any self-moderators who don't have to wait for approval can probably do these quickly without much trouble since the contents are a mixture of reprints which will need importing and originals (or at least they're not on this site). There are many well-known authors and artists included. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:59, 7 March 2024 (EST)
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:::I've received my copy and updated the entry with the info I could find in it. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:49, 26 October 2021 (EDT)
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:I'll take a look at it and see what I can do. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:48, 8 March 2024 (EST)
 +
:I have through issue 10 entered. I'll finish up with the remaining four later. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:35, 8 March 2024 (EST)
 +
:I've entered all 14 issues now. You can see them [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?72797 here]. I did not combine the years into editor series because there are only 14 issues so leaving them all separate makes it easier to get to them (one less click-through). ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 18:32, 12 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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== Peter Haining ==
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== Neglected moderation ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1001310; I assumed most of Haining's books were well taken care of here, but a random scan of 1 book opened a Pandora's box, because it turns out there's all kinds of missing/wrong info for him, starting with the fact he had no photo, which I added. Many books have wrong covers, and the one linked above is interesting because the Gollancz wrongly had the same cover as Peacock, but when I added correct cover it turned out the cover artist was the same for both, even though the art is totally different! So if anyone is working on anything re: Haining, don't assume info is correct. I'll try to add/fix as much as I can. --[[User:Username|Username]] 13:05, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
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Last time I changed something in ISFDB it took days to get a single non-controversial change accepted with hundreds of pending changes. Now it takes weeks with thousands of pending changes. When looking a the recent changes I see lots of self acceptance and accepted automatic changes, but only little moderator activity.
  
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: http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2063610; entered page #'s for both editions, and neither includes Lovecraft's story. Should probably be deleted, but slim possibility it's in the book but not the contents. Anyone own a copy? --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:50, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
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Remembering that it takes at least 4 or 5 rounds to add all information for a translated book that amounts to waiting multiple months for a single book.
  
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== Sexy Vampires ==
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If you don't want contributors anymore then say so clearly! ATM I'd wonder if you find people sticking with ISFDB for a longer time with that situation.
  
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/174633504809; Cecilia Tan edited lots of "erotic" anthologies back in the 90's, and one called Erotica Vampirica came out in 1996 and was reprinted in 2005; however, I found that eBay link above, which seems to have collected that anthology plus 3 others edited by Tan but used the same title. No copy on Archive.org, so if anyone owns this it needs entering. --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:35, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
+
To give you an indication how this should go: I added a new word to Wiktionary, it took 4 minutes for first reaction and 1:15 to reach the final entry.
 +
--[[User:Stoecker|Stoecker]] ([[User talk:Stoecker|talk]]) 16:31, 8 March 2024 (EST)
  
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== Poe collection ==
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: Longer approval times have definitely been a problem lately. Currently we have 1976 pending submissions, 1137 of them by [[User:Username]] (many are straightforward additions of archive.org links to publication records), 124 by [[User:Fixer]] (a robot account) and the remaining 715 are by other editors.
  
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While perusing the [https://ia801603.us.archive.org/7/items/Amazing_Stories_v03n08_1928-11_bd-sas/Amazing_Stories_v03n08_1928-11_bd-sas.pdf November 1928 issue of ''Amazing Stories''], I came across an advert for a 10-volume complete works set of Edgar Allan Poe on page 755. It seems similar to the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?3827 1905 set] after looking through the contents listed in the ad and comparing them to the 1905 set, but there are a few differences. Does anyone have more information on this set? The seller, Popular Book Corporation, isn't listed as a publisher on ISFDB, and I'm not sure if there is some other publisher based on the information in the ad. If this is a different set, we really ought to have it in the database. Thoughts? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:59, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
+
: That said, the ISFDB editing process is very different from what Wikipedia and its offshoot projects use. The latter are much easier to edit, but the quality of the end product varies tremendously. I wrote/rewrote dozens of Wikipedia articles in the mid-2000s, but eventually concluded that trying to keep articles accurate and coherent was going to be prohibitively time-consuming. I occasionally peek to see what has happened to them and their current state is pretty bad. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensheviks is full of confused nonsense.
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: It looks like a reprint of that 1905 edition indeed which if I am not wrong is a reprint of the 1902 Richmond edition by Pearson (which the ad mentions as the base for their plates as well). [https://www.worldcat.org/title/works-of-edgar-allan-poe/oclc/3122161&referer=brief_results OCLC for the 10 volume one], [https://www.worldcat.org/title/works-of-edgar-allan-poe/oclc/1049109464&referer=brief_results one more] and an [https://www.ebth.com/items/5103711-1902-richmond-edition-of-the-the-works-of-edgar-allan-poe-vol-i-x online listing] (which we also do not have). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:16, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:::I think it's mostly that, but the ad mentions three essays in the first volume, of which only one seems to appear in that 1905 edition. So, this one advertised in 1928 is at least slightly different, even if drawn from the same source. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:28, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:::: Possibly but it also says that it uses the plates from the Richmond edition - which would mean the same text everywhere - plates are kinda locking you in... They could not just drop half a page here and there. So not entirely sure if the 3 essays are not the memoir, the eulogy and the notice actually. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:36, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:: PS: While I was digging, we do not have [https://www.eapoe.org/works/harrison/jahinfo.htm The Harrison edition] by Thomas Y. Crowell either. If someone feels like adding them, we do want all of these editions :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:16, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:: And another [https://www.ebay.com/itm/173891670875 10 books set] by Fred de Fau & Company from 1902 ([https://picclick.com/LEATHER-SetWORKS-OF-EDGAR-ALLAN-POE-Complete-1-1000-284168509053.html?refresh=1 and more images for that one]. And it mentions Putnam so there may be at least one more set..
 
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:: [https://www.biblio.com/book/complete-works-edgar-allan-poe-poe/d/237256017 And another 17 volumes one from 1902] by George D. Sproul Company (seems to match the Harrison one above in contents but not in publisher. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:23, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Children's Classics ==
+
: We added the ability to self-approve a few years ago and we are slowly expanding the number of editors who can do so. Hopefully it will help matters going forward. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:56, 8 March 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?174; I added cover to the Oz book; the other books are by different companies, so I'm wondering if there's a rule for separating pub. series that happen to have the same name as there is for authors or publishers with same names. Also, Open Library says the publisher of the Oz book is Frog, so that's interesting. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:53, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:: Well, my request to do so was simply ignored. --[[User:Stoecker|Stoecker]] ([[User talk:Stoecker|talk]]) 10:10, 16 March 2024 (EDT)
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:I would create "Children's Classics (Ideal)", "Children's Classics (Bloomsbury)", and "Children's Classics (Max Bollinger)" to separate them. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:48, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:: Yep - it is a somewhat common practice to add the publisher name to the pub series name so they are separated properly (unless it is a multi-publisher pub series of course - the Russian publishers had been passing pub series from one to the other, continuing numbers and so on for example). See [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?1300 this group of pub series] for an extreme example of "same name, different publisher" :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:17, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== New cleanup report needed: Reviews and titles language mismatch ==
+
::: Nominations require support from other editors/moderators before they can be approved. If a nomination doesn't gain enough support, it is not approved. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:01, 16 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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We need a new report around languages: Reviews and reviewed titles language mismatch. While that can happen occasionally so we should not explicitly forbid it (although a note explaining the situation should be encouraged), most reviews will review the book published in their language so the review should be connected to the translation, not the original.
+
:::: Which is an endless loop. Because moderators don't care I want self-moderation. But for that I need moderators to care which they don't. An unreachable goal. --[[User:Stoecker|Stoecker]] ([[User talk:Stoecker|talk]]) 10:05, 23 March 2024 (EDT)
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For example [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1757805 this review] connects properly to the French translation but [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1331034 this one] is connected to the English original when it should be connected to the German translation. I've left a note to the PV on the last case but I suspect that's far from the only one connected sideways...  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:39, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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: Checking the database, I see that we currently have 1,791 mismatches. It would be easy to create a cleanup report to find them. Do we need a yellow warning as well? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:26, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
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== Heide Oberheide ==
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:: Yes, please - spelling out that if this is intentional, a note needs to be added.
 
−
:: Also - can you check that if someone adds a review called "Annie" by Someone" (in English) and the only title in the DB is "Annie" by Someone (in French), the review does not auto-connect on creation? I know the report will catch these if they happen but no point doing them to start with if at all possible. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:31, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
::: The new cleanup report has been implemented and deployed. The data will become available tomorrow morning. I have also created 2 additional FRs, one for the requested yellow warning and one to make the auto-linking logic aware of languages. I plan to work on them next week. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:11, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?127989; I left a PV a note telling them that a T. Canty credit for Parke Godwin's novel Beloved Exile was actually by Oberheide so that will need fixing but another problem I found is that her page at The Paperback Palette says she was born in Canada in 1957, both very different than what ISFDB says. So does anyone know what the real info is? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 22:48, 9 March 2024 (EST)
 +
:Found [https://www.heritage.nf.ca/articles/arts/heidi-oberheide.php this] and [https://www.arts.wa.gov/artist-collection/?request=record;id=2193;type=701 this], which both agree on 1943 and Germany and have enough differences that neither seems to be the source for the other. They both strike me as fairly authoritative, especially that first one. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 11:23, 10 March 2024 (EDT)
  
−
:::: The new cleanup report has been made available to non-moderators. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 11:26, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Tales of Terror ==
  
−
== Two Heads ==
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?291626; I added a link to the back cover image on Bookscans in a PENDING edit and noticed there are some copies on eBay which show the first page, 5, with "The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar" as a title, which means this shouldn't really be a novel but rather a collection of Poe stories adapted by Sudak. Does anyone own a copy who can verify the page numbers of the other stories so they can all be entered? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:13, 13 March 2024 (EDT)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?537519; http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?278204. Both 1985 books with the same cover; don't know which came first. Maybe someone else here does. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:35, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Cover artist data entry rules updated ==
  
−
== Add J.D. as recognizable author suffix ==
+
Please note that the "Artist" section of [[Template:PublicationFields:CoverArt]] has been updated to reflect current practices. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:02, 14 March 2024 (EDT)
  
−
As per the instructions in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?7 the cleanup report]: a new suffix is identified with [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?334291 Jessica 'Zhanna' Malekos Smith, J.D.]. I can ignore the author from the report but can we add the prefix as recognizable as well? Thanks! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 01:42, 23 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== The Message ==
  
−
: Sure, let me take a look. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 11:27, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1471825; Obscure author and publisher but not obscure enough that it didn't get a Chinese translation, https://archive.org/search?query=brockman-robin&sort=-addeddate, in case anyone fluent wants to enter that; just don't title it The MASSAGE like the uploader did. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:37, 14 March 2024 (EDT)
  
−
:: Done. As per {{Bug|786}}, "Cleanup reports do not check name suffix validity correctly", I have also corrected the algorithm behind this cleanup report. The new data will become available tomorrow morning. I expect a dozen new author names to appear on the report. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:27, 26 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== YouTube audiobooks in or out? ==
  
−
== Title and Publication templates in notes ==
+
I've placed [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5852793 this submission] on hold because I'm unsure if YouTube audiobooks should be included here since they are generally not downloadable (instead being streamed). The [[ISFDB:Policy#Rules of Acquisition|rules]] include audiobooks, but also exclude "[w]orks published in a web-based publication and available exclusively as a Web page" (which is pretty much what a YouTube video is), and they say nothing about podcasts. Thoughts? Should this be a [[RS|Rules and standards]] discussion? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:42, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
: They are out under the exclusion as they are not downloadable. However we need to extend the Audio-book section of the inclusion section to match the ebooks/electronic publication one above it a bit - especially around podcasts which are not considered magazines for example. So maybe starting a discussion to clarify what audio-materials we want to index is the best choice (while keeping that one on hold until we decide what we want to do) :). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 15:09, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
::Okay, moved it [[ISFDB:RS#Clarifying the Audiobooks entry|over there]]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:33, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
  
−
We already have Publisher, S for Series, PubS and A for author - all working based on the name (and Advanced searching for it).
+
== Barcodes with prices hiding in plain sight ==
−
Can we add Publication and Title to cover everything and make it easier for people to write notes - using the ID (then it can be used as "Title (ID: ID)" in notes or something like that. I know that we cannot replicate what we can do on the wiki side with the multi-parameter templates (like the one for Titles) but we should be able to at least do proper links to all parts of our DB without the need to know HTML :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 02:33, 23 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
: At this time, templates are limited to simple substitutions which replace the provided value with a template-specific URL which includes the value. In this case, "Publisher", "PubS", "S" and "A" templates replace the publisher's/series'/author's name with the URL of an "exact" ISFDB Search URL for the given name.
+
A lot of printed books have prices on their back covers hiding in plain sight. If you look at a barcode on the back cover, next to the ISBN, usually over the smaller barcode next to the ISBN one, there is a number sequence - for example 51595 or 51699. That means $15.95 / $16.99 (5 is the code for $, the rest is the price). The first example is from a book I pulled from my shelf (not genre), the second is from [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0982095031 an Amazon book]. As back covers are very often visible in Amazon (separately or as part of Look Inside), that may help with adding prices (with an appropriate note) even when Amazon and other retailer have their own ideas on what the price may be (or at the very least it can serve as a confirmation for the Amazon price). It is not there for all books (90000 is a very common code up there) but for the books that have it, it is as good as the old printed prices.  
  
−
: We can do the same thing for publication and title records, but it be will displaying their numeric IDs as opposed to titles. Here are a couple of examples:
+
I propose to add this tidbit of information to the [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Template:PublicationFields:Price Price field help]. Meanwhile, I am leaving it here for information :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 17:21, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
  
−
:* <nowiki>{{Title|437811}}</nowiki> will be replaced with "[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?437811 437811]"
+
:Good idea to add this to the Help. I have sometimes used this for prices. You might like to expand the note to explain other currencies. The smaller 5 digit barcode is the supplementary section of the barcode and contains a EAN-5 code. The first of the five digits is a currency code. If the first digit is 9, that means the supplementary section does not contain price information. It's explained in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EAN-5 this Wikipedia article]. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:28, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
−
:* <nowiki>{{Pub|161701}}</nowiki> will be replaced with "[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?161701 161701]"
+
:: Yep - we should add all the codes when we are adding the note to the help page. Thanks for the link to the Wiki page - I knew it was there, I did not think to look it up earlier today :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 18:41, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
  
−
: I think it would be better to ''display'' the record's title as opposed to its ID, but it would require software changes. I'll have to take a closer look to determine the scope of the changes. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:38, 31 October 2021 (EDT)
+
::: I agree that adding a section about EAN-5 codes to [[Template:PublicationFields:Price]] would be useful. We could list  the commonly used first digits:
−
:: Maybe as a quick solution, do the numerical - someone can always just copy the title and construct around the number. Once we have a better solution, we can clean it up (plus sometimes you want the ID and not the title anyway - especially for these two types of records. So call these TitleId/PubId and then when we have a better option, we can always create Title and Pub as well. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:46, 31 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:::* 0 and 1 -- UK
 +
:::* 3 - Australia
 +
:::* 4 - New Zealand
 +
:::* 5 - US
 +
:::* 6 - Canada
 +
::: and explain special pseudo-price values, i.e. that "9999" means "100.00 or more" while "90000" means "no price given". We could then link to the Wikipedia article or an industry Web page for other scenarios. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 19:06, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
  
−
::: I plan to examine the code to see what would be involved. If the effort is modest, it will be better to get it done in one iteration. Here is to hope. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:59, 31 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Webzines to include? ==
  
−
:::: I have created {{FR|1461}}, "Create templates for Title and Publication records", to support the research/implementation effort. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 11:09, 1 November 2021 (EDT)
+
Hello. I have two new pub submissions on hold as they pertain to new webzine entries. Do we want to include these?
 +
* Small World City: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5776649], [https://smallworldcity.com/ website].
 +
* Kalpabishwa: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5884972], [https://www.kalpabiswa.in/ website].
 +
Looking through the contents, I say we can include those. Not sure how long-lived these are going to be though... Comments/suggestions from other editors & moderators whether to include or not? (didn't look for past discussion where webzine inclusions were debated...) [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 15:35, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
: Both produce issues and both are genre -zines. So they are eligible under the "Webzines, which are defined as online periodicals with distinct issues (note that online periodicals without distinct issues are not considered webzines)." rule. How long they survive is irrelevant - even if they produce a single issue, they are in. However, these records will need some massaging post approval :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 15:41, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
:: Thought so. The help text says to post and query the editor community - we may want to update that and instead clarify that if a webzine has distinct issues, it is in by default? [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 16:09, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
::: Probably an oversight (we forgot it was there?) after we changed the ROA awhile back to include these. Which of the help pages?
 +
::: PS: Note that awhile back we even dropped the requirement for the webzine to be genre allowing non-genre ones to be added as any other non-genre periodical (with only genre contents indexed). So yep - a webzine with issues is always in under the genre magazine rules or the non-genre periodical ones. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 16:22, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::: [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Screen:NewPub#Format Here] - see '''webzine''' in that section. [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::: Ah, the one place I did not look at. :) Yep - that needs an update. I will start a discussion so we can get the language crafted. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::: [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Rules_and_standards_discussions#Formats_help_pages Here we go] - the proposed new language. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:26, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::: [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Policy#Rules_of_Acquisition Rules of Acquisition] has it as you mention above - we may want to add non-genre periodicals role there explicitly. [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::: We do not have them called out in the print periodicals section either but if you think we should clarify that across the board, I won't object. Let's finish the audio-formats discussion we are currently having about changes in the same section of the ROA over in R&S and then I will initiate a discussion about this. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::: As an aside, I must say that I couldn't find the ROA immediately - I think it is an important section of the rules. Shouldn't we be adding a link on the main help page? [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::: I know to look under Policy but you are right, it needs to be a lot more visible [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page here] - either as a sublink under the ISFDB Policy link or on its own in the same section. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::::I've added a specific link to it on [[Help:Contents]], which is found at the top of most help pages. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:18, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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== Chris(topher) Fahy ==
+
== ISFDB:Verification requests ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2848370; I fixed an old story's date in this book, but that Chris Fahy story was also bothering me, and I realized it's by Christopher Fahy, a well-known writer with a collection, Matinee At the Flame, whose many original stories haven't been entered here, but checking preview on Scribd revealed "The Guardian" was 1 of the originals, so the date should be changed to that of Matinee. Question now is whether he's really credited as Chris or Christopher in Damned Yankees. Info about these latter-day Waugh-edited books is scarce, but Nihonjoe did all the editing here so maybe he knows more. --[[User:Username|Username]] 08:27, 23 October 2021 (EDT)
+
The [[ISFDB:Verification requests]] board is not used much anymore. It seems [[ISFDB:Help desk]] and this board have pretty much supplanted it. Do we want to discontinue it? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:17, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
: How about we can turn it into a broader board instead: "Assistance needed/Project Assistance Required/Something along these lines" for example - when an editor starts a project and notices other things that need adding/fixing or finds a source that may be useful and is unable/unwilling to work through it, they can request assistance there. Looking at CS, about half of the posts there in the last couple of years are from that nature and they choke the actual discussion threads and make it very hard for people to notice that something was posted in the discussions. It will be the counter-part of the Help Desk - come to the Help Desk if you want help getting the work done and learning how to do it; come to this board to post a project that needs work but you cannot/don't want to work on. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 14:59, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
::I'd be fine with that. I agree this board has gotten rather full lately, making it hard to keep track of things. So maybe change the title to [[ISFDB:Assistance requests]] or something? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:11, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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== FAQ updated: "How do I use the ISFDB to find the most popular/acclaimed SF works?" ==
+
::: I like the idea. "Assistance requests" may be a bit too narrow for what we are trying to define, but it's the closest that I can think of at the moment. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:46, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::: I like "Assistance Requests". If we ever come up with a better name, we can rename and forward. And we have the text under it to add a sentence that describes the scope better. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 15:53, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::: "Help Wanted" ? ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] ([[User talk:Holmesd|talk]]) 09:47, 23 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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Earlier today I added a "How do I use the ISFDB to find the most popular/acclaimed SF works?" section to [[ISFDB:FAQ]]. The new section should make it easier to respond to queries both here and elsewhere. If you can think of any potential additions to this (or any other) section of the FAQ, please post your ideas here.
+
:::::: I think that there is potential for confusion between "Help desk" and "Help Wanted". Ideally, whatever name we come up with should clearly differentiate between the two boards. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 10:08, 23 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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BTW, what prompted me to write this section was the fact that [https://www.reddit.com/ Reddit], an increasingly popular platform supporting thousands of forums, including many SF-specific forums, auto-routes comments with links to isfdb.org to its spam queue. Multiple attempts to have Reddit admins remove ISFDB from Reddit's blacklist have been unsuccessful. It's been increasingly frustrating because we support a number of ways to create lists of popular and/or critically acclaimed works and authors, something that Reddit users ask all the time. Now we can simply respond with "Google 'ISFDB FAQ' and go to this section". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:58, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:::::::Maybe "Research Requests" or "Research Assistance"? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:45, 24 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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== Story Starting Page ==
+
:::::::: I like "Research Assistance". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:13, 24 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5129699; contacted somebody about fixing page #'s using Archive.org copy; each story has a page with nothing but the title followed by a blank page and then the story itself with the title at the head. My edit was rejected, so maybe I'm mistaken, but isn't the rule to use page #'s of the actual story and not that preceding stuff? --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:50, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
+
(unindent) Are there any objections to changing [[ISFDB:Verification requests]] to [[Research Assistance]]? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:12, 4 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
: I'm okay with that. [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 06:10, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
== Puffin vs Puffin / Penguin Books (UK) ==
+
:: If there are no objections, I will ask Nihonjoe to make the change tomorrow. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 16:50, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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Does anyone see a valid reason for these two publishers:
+
:::De we want it to be [[ISFDB:Research Assistance]] to [[Research Assistance]]? The other can be a redirect. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:54, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
−
*[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?179 Puffin]  
 
−
*[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?26574 Puffin / Penguin Books (UK)]  
 
−
to stay separate? Both are the Puffin division of Penguin UK and the books since 2104 had been all added to the shorter name; the older ones are split with no rhyme or reason: See [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisheryear.cgi?26574+2005 2005 Puffin / Penguin Books (UK) ] vs [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisheryear.cgi?179+2005 2005 Puffin]. If we keep both, we need a definition of what goes where.
 
−
Note: Puffin may contain some non-UK editions which need to be sent to their proper publishers eventually but it is supposed to be the UK one only based on the note and the website link. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:10, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Strick ==
+
:::: Probably [[ISFDB:Research Assistance]] in order to stay consistent with the majority of other "major" pages. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:05, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?62891; Philip Strick has several items in his ISFDB record, but Phillip Strick only has this book, which only has a "Cover Coming Soon" on Amazon, and Open Library's 2 non-previewable copies call the author "Phillip Stuck". I have a feeling this book doesn't exist, so if anyone knows more... --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:27, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
+
::::: Since there are no objections, please feel free to go ahead and move [[ISFDB:Verification requests]] to [[ISFDB:Research Assistance]] when you get a chance. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 13:45, 6 April 2024 (EDT)
−
: [https://www.worldcat.org/title/british-film-institute-comparison-to-science-fiction/oclc/62920399 OCLC] has a record but no holding libraries - which is not surprising because this is a UK book. BL had not heard of it and there are no copies in any of the usual places so possibly announced but never came out. Which explains pulling the cover out of it in 2009 on our record I guess. Most likely vaporware but who knows - OCLC marking the publisher as "Cassell Academic" may mean a very small run so it may be out there. I'll add a note - and fix the author name - that double L is a typo from somewhere. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:17, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:Amazon.co.uk has an entry for it [https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0304332100/ here], and Abebooks has one [https://www.abebooks.com/9780304332106/British-Film-Institute-Companion-Science-0304332100/plp here], but no copies are available. [http://www.sfrevu.com/ISSUES/2002/0209/Col%20-%20US%20Books/USBooks.htm SFRevu] had it listed as one of the books coming out in September 2002. That's all I can find. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:11, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: Yeah but something is off with a lot of these entries. The ISBN is Cassell’s for sure. Redistribution from another publisher on the US side? Who knows. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:15, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:I've sent a message to SFE3 about it, since they mention the book in his bio in a way that makes me think one of them may have a copy. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:18, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: Good thought. I’ve pinged a movies fan across the pond who collects similar books to see if he has it as well. Of course, once we locate it, it may turn out to be out of scope for the DB :)  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:15, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::SFE thinks it's likely a ghost title, so I've updated the entry to reflect that it was never published. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:57, 27 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Faber Fanfares ==
+
::::::Moved! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 11:31, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?1370+3; I added covers to both books recently; today someone added a book by Bantam Fanfare and while searching for publishers with Fanfare in their name I came across this, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubs_not_in_series.cgi?10241. All 5 PV'd but none of the PV's active, I believe, so does anyone know whether Fanfare was a separate publisher than Faber or just an imprint, and whether those 2 books should be merged with the other 5 or vice versa? --[[User:Username|Username]] 09:42, 26 October 2021 (EDT)
+
::::::: Thanks! I have updated the main Wiki page and everything looks good. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 11:37, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::::::: The Description up in the panel at the top of all the community boards still say "Help with bibliographic, image credit, and other questions which require a physical check of the work in question.". [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:49, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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== The Original/Other Occupant ==
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::::::::: Updated, thanks! The new wording is "Help with bibliographic projects", which is a bit bland and non-specific, but I couldn't think of a better way to summarize the purpose of the new board. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:49, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?134040; Nevill's company Ritual published his first collection, Some Will Not Sleep, and I entered the contents today; however, 1 story, "The Other Occupant", is titled "The Original Occupant" in online mentions. It originally appeared in a Gray Friar anthology, Bernie Herrmann's Manic Sextet, and this review, https://trumpetville.wordpress.com/2013/07/01/filler-content-with-orchestration/, titles it "The Original Occupant". Gray Friar's archived site titles it "The Other Occupant", so I think what happened is someone just copied that info here without checking the book itself, which is understandable because Gray Friar's books were hard to find when they were active, and since they went out of business about 5 years ago many of their books have disappeared. So I'm going to leave the title as it is until someone with a copy of Sextet can verify it's "The Original Occupant" in the book itself and can change the title. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:20, 26 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Jim/James Burns ==
  
−
== October's Ghost? ==
+
I just added a link and did a few other things for the 33rd YBSF edition, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2012677, and searched for others with James Burns as cover artist; only 34th came up, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2209443, but as can be seen PV of TP and HC entered it differently. So maybe consensus about which is "better" should be reached and credits merged. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:45, 27 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?498618; October's Ghost has full records for Morrow and Avon editions, but this edition seems to be mistakenly for another book by the author, Capitol Punishment, https://openlibrary.org/search?q=%22october%27s+ghost%22&mode=everything. Should probably be deleted, but there's a possibility it's also a genre book, although I doubt it. Anyone know for sure? --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:21, 26 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Lovecraft Collaborations Book ==
  
−
== They Walk Again ==
+
I was starting to add the audio book edition of {{T|2610309|this title}} and discovered that publisher has provided a copy of the pdf version of the book.  While we don't have a record for the pdf (it has a different ISBN than the eBook), there are several discrepancies between it and our records.  I also have questions other questions about how this title is reflected and while none of the publications are primarily verified, there have been several editors who have touched these records.  I thought I'd reach out for comments before proceeding with changes.
 +
# We have the title as an ANTHOLOGY and list both the editor and Lovecraft. All the stories are credited to Lovecraft with various co-authors.  Personally, I feel that these sorts of collection of collaborations are better typed as COLLECTION as was done with {{T|34634|this title}}.
 +
# The title page lists the credits as "By H.P. Lovecraft" over "Edited and Annotated by Finn J.D. John" in smaller type.  We have both names in the author field.  Since we have this as an ANTHOLOGY, this labels them both as "Editors".  Lovecraft clearly didn't edit this book.  As I feel this should be listed as a COLLECTION, I also feel that only Lovecraft should be listed in the author field.  If the consensus is that it's an ANTHOLOGY, then we only list John.
 +
# The stories are listed with both Lovecraft and his co-author on their title pages, whereas we have them all listed by the collaborating author alone.  So I intend to swap out which variant of these titles is included.  I don't thin this is controversial.
 +
# There is a short essay before each section giving biographical details of each co-author.  I intend to add these.  While not signed, I think we can safely attribute them to John by virtue of his annotation credit.
 +
#The PDF lists 5 different formats each with their own ISBN including the "Interactive PDF".  Should we add the PDF as a separate title record, or should the PDF ISBN be added in the notes for the {{P|765112|ebook}} edition?  I'll also note, that my understanding is that we do list page numbers for pdfs whereas we do not for ebooks.
 +
# I'm fairly comfortable that these changes should apply to the 2018 publications based on the 2018 pdf.  I'm less certain whether I should make changes to the 2017 edition, or the 2019 omnibus, i.e should we assume the story credits and biographical essays are present in the other editions not listed in the pdf?
 +
# I assume adding a note about the PDF being included with the audio book is sufficient rather than duplicating the contents showing the story exists twice (audio and text).
 +
I'd appreciate other's thoughts on these questions.  Thanks. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 07:29, 28 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1316088; Interesting that this major anthology, with an intro by WALTER DE LA MARE, has no covers on ISFDB and is missing several editions. The 1931 edition, which can be seen on Fantlab and Goodreads, has a huge sticker in the middle with an Australian bookseller's label on it. The 1932 edition is called "Cheap Edition" on the copyright page of the 1937 edition found on Richard Dalby's site, which has 2 different URL's, https://richarddalbyslibrary.com/products/the-ghost-book-a-collection-of-the-best-ghost-stories-faber-faber-1937-walter-de-la-mare?variant=8800682737763, and https://richarddalbyslibrary.com/products/the-ghost-book-a-collection-of-the-best-ghost-stories. The copyright page also mentions a reprint in 1934. Then there's the 1942 American edition from E.P. Dutton, which is also missing here; there's a supposedly previewable copy on Open Library but there's no preview (!), although the full cover is on dustjackets.com. There's also the fact that different editions can't seem to decide what the title is, with some seeming to call it The Ghost Book; both titles are on the title page as can be seen on Fantlab. So I'll start by trying to find a clean cover for the original 1931 edition, but if anyone wants to contribute there's a lot that needs entering. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:56, 26 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:My mild opinion is that both this and the example you cited should be ANTHOLOGY.  They are different from the case where most of the stories are written by Lovecraft alone, with one or two written by him and someone else. While both are Locvecraft-centric, they are primarily showcasing the work of a wide variety of authors.  I agree with everything else in your list. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 19:55, 31 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
::I'm afraid I would still prefer these as COLLECTIONs. If we were to convert them to ANTHOLOGY, we would need to list the editor as the sole author which would move these collections out of Lovecraft's bibliography.  I had only cited one example, but there are many similar collections, many of which are verified.  For example, see which collections containing the story {{T|1035316|The Green Meadow}}.  It is contained in two true anthologies. Aside from the 4 editions of the title we're discussing, there is but one other {{P|848648|publication} typed as a ANTHOLOGY. All other publications were entered as COLLECTION or OMNIBUS. In some of these cases, we don't necessarily have the editor and would likely need to move these titles to the uncredited bibliography page instead of Lovecraft's. {{P|280465|Beyond the Wall of Sleep}} is another interesting example. There about 10 "collaborations" in this collection which is a minority, but it is more than one or two stories. If we decide to type these sorts of books as ANTHOLOGY, where would we draw that line?  My last point is that it appears to me that these books are published to appear as Lovecraft collections with his name listed more prominently than any editors (if they are listed at all). If we are to reclassify these publication, I'd like to hear from some of the other verifiers.  Thanks.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 19:23, 1 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::Since there have been no further responses to this, and the one objection was "mild", I'm going to proceed with these changes.  Thanks. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 12:34, 13 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
== New cleanup report - Author Names with an Unrecognized Suffix ==
+
== "Publication Title-Reference Title Mismatches" enhanced ==
  
−
The cleanup report "Author Names with Invalid Data or an Unrecognized Suffix" has been split into two:
+
As per the recent Rules and Standards discussion, the cleanup report "Publication Title-Reference Title Mismatches" has been enhanced to require an exact match between publication titles and their reference title records' titles. New data will become available tomorrow morning.
  
−
* Author Names with Invalid or Suspect Data
+
We are looking at around 10,000 mismatches, so the cleanup effort will be significant, especially considering the fact that many affected publication records have been primary-verified. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:07, 4 April 2024 (EDT)
−
* Author Names with an Unrecognized Suffix
 
  
−
The second report has been improved to find more unrecognized suffixes. The data will become available in a couple of hours and will include roughly 370 author names. It looks like "Esq." is common enough to make it a "recognized" suffix. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 00:14, 27 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Canonical name change Charles Eugene Anderson from Chuck Anderson ==
−
: Can we add "V" to the recognized suffixes. We caught one of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?335011 those]. Maybe also add VI, and VII while at it (or even all the way to X? :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:48, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:: Good idea. V-X have been added to the list of "recognized" suffixes. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:47, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
+
Any objections to making [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?273059 Charles Eugene Anderson] the canonical name and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?108390 Chuck Anderson] the alternate?
 +
*17 titles credited to Charles Eugene Anderson.
 +
*09 titles credited to Chuck Anderson.
 +
*01 title has publications credited to each.
 +
Thanks, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 07:51, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
: Go ahead, obvious case where the switch can/need to happen [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 09:28, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:: Hearing no objections, done. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 18:45, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
== A.J. Alan ==
+
== David (B.) Mattingly ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1337677; I added a cover image to the audiobook recently and today while looking through Richards Press books I saw that they published the print edition so I found the contents on Fantlab and started to enter them. They seem to have messed up because "Diptych" has a higher page # than the next story; however, someone on ISFDB messed up, too, because several stories entered here aren't actually in the book and several stories in the book aren't entered here; same incorrect contents are also in the audiobook's record. So an actual copy is needed; there's 2 non-previewable copies on Open Library, 1 of which says it's from John Baker in 1967, so maybe that's where the contents entered here actually belong. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:08, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
+
Looking through the works credited to [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?37498 Mattingly], it seems to me that "David Mattingly" is the most common (by far), and has been for a long time. There are so many entries, though, this opinion is based only on quickly scanning through the list. Is there a way to get a count of each through database queries? I don't think any of the other aliases are used in a significant amount. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:58, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
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:It's possible that these are two completely different collections, despite them having the same title. I've seen that happen in the past. As you wrote, we definitely need someone who can look at the physical copies (and listen tot he audiobook) to see if they are the same or different. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:27, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
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: Just with search and a browser search: 510 with the name David Mattingly; 747 under the canonical; 198 of these 747 of them are "only as by David Mattingly". Just based on that, how we record the names from secondary sources for artists and the fact that the new ones are always without the B. when we get access to the book, I would say it is time to flip the names. I am not volunteering to do it though. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 18:58, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
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:: I am pretty sure that these are different collections. Audible can be a bit weird sometimes but when they list [https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Best-of-A-J-Alan-Audiobook/B00MWB9X1M 10 stories] (and [https://www.audible.com.au/pd/The-Best-of-A-J-Alan-Audiobook/B00MWAYB7O The AU version]), they rarely have 15 and our list matches what Audible has for this audiobook.
 
−
:: Amazon putting together different books that share the same name together is nothing new when a title/author matches and they are not flagged by someone and it happens even more when one or more of the books is old. There are at least two scans of the 1954 book contents page ([https://richarddalbyslibrary.com/products/kenelm-foss-the-best-of-a-j-alan-richards-press-1954 here] and [https://fantlab.ru/edition171169 Fantlab] showing the misprint of the page number of Diptych in the Contents page (possibly an inversion of 69) and these are not the same scans from the looks of it.  
 
−
:: I think we are looking at that from the wrong angle - is there actually any proof anywhere that these are two formats of the same book besides the matching title and Amazon being Amazon? Because from anything I can see, they need to be split and noted (and we need to be careful which of the 15 stories in the paper one are actually eligible for the DB). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:52, 31 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== New External IDs request ==
+
(after edit conflict)
  
−
Can we add 3 more external IDs/templates combos:
+
: The easiest way that I can think of is to run a few Advanced Title Searches using "Author's Name is exactly David Mattingly". Make sure to click "Get Count" instead of "Get Results". Here are the results that I see:
−
* The [https://www.cobiss.net/ COBISS] ones that we are using already in the DB (note the #full at the end):
+
:* David B. Mattingly: 747
−
:* COBISS.BG - The Bulgarian library system. Example URL: https://plus.bg.cobiss.net/opac7/bib/1042352100#full . We have 30 of these in the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/webpages_search_results.cgi?OPERATOR=contains&WEBPAGE_VALUE=cobiss Web Pages] now and I am adding more as I am working through the Bulgarian titles again.
+
:* David Mattingly: 510
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:* COBISS.SR - The Serbian library system. Example URL: https://plus.sr.cobiss.net/opac7/bib/21623559#full . We have 26 of these in the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/note_search_results.cgi?OPERATOR=contains&NOTE_VALUE=cobiss.sr Notes] and they can be lifted up cleanly. We had been adding more Serbian books.
+
:* Dave Mattingly: 12
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* Biblioman - A Bulgarian project to collect information for every book ever published in Bulgarian. Example URL: https://biblioman.chitanka.info/books/6076. We have 23 in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/webpages_search_results.cgi?OPERATOR=contains&WEBPAGE_VALUE=biblioman Web Pages] but as with COBISS.BG, I keep adding more of these as I find them and as I add books.
+
:* D. B. Mattingly: 7
−
All 3 operate with a simple Numerical ID. We probably also need two cleanup reports (or more if we want to split the template from the IDs):
+
:* Dave Maddingly: 1
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* Notes contain the string COBISS (case insensitive) and pub does not have COBISS.BG or COBISS.SR ID or their corresponding template (to allow for linking for a different edition as source for example). That way if one of the other 5 COBISS systems start appearing, we will see them coming in via the report and we can add them as well. I think the COBISS reports should be really together - as we really want to catch any mention of COBISS even when the country is omited.
+
:* D. Matingly: 1
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* Biblioman mentioned in Notes but no ID or template used.  
+
:* Mattingly: 2
−
As the names of these are pretty non-standard, we can police these via searches temporarily so the cleanup reports are not required initially of that will delay the implementation.
+
:* David Burroughs Mattingly: 1
−
Thanks! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:14, 31 October 2021 (EDT)
+
: Since {{A|David B. Mattingly}} is the current canonical name, it's over-represented. Every "David Mattingly" COVERART/INTERIORART title has a "David B. Mattingly" parent title, but only some of the latter have actual publications associated with them. Firefox tells me that the Summary Bibliography page has:
 +
:* 79 instances of "also appeared"
 +
:* 8 instances of "also as"
 +
:* 132 instances of "only appeared"
 +
:* 207 instances of "only as"
 +
: What this means is that 339 canonical titles have only appeared under an alternate name. Another 87 have been credited at least 2 different ways. 339+87-12-7-1-1-2 is 403, which, unless I am missing something, gives us a rough count. I'd need to run database queries to get a better idea, but it looks like "David Mattingly" is slightly ahead of "David B. Mattingly".
  
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: It all looks eminently doable. I am currently recovering after an illness but hope to be able to do more coding later in the week. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 18:05, 31 October 2021 (EDT)
+
: P.S. Perhaps what we need is a new menu options to generate this kind of data on demand. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 19:03, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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:: {{FR|1460}}, "Add support for COBISS and Biblioman External IDs/templates", has been created. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 11:04, 1 November 2021 (EDT)
+
::That would be cool. Another cool thing would be if we could figure out a way to programatically automate the process of changing canonical names (maybe have a side menu link that appears whenever viewing an author entry). The link would take you to a page where you'd enter the current author ID and the target author ID. We'd have to account for variants on the author name, title variants, and translations (and probably a lot of other things that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head). For situations like this, it would save tons of time in the long run. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:37, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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::: 3 requested External ID Types and 3 matching templates have been added -- see [[Template:PublicationFields:ExternalIDs]] and [[Help:Using Templates and HTML in Note Fields]] for details. I'll work on the new cleanup reports next. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:53, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
+
::: This functionality has been requested a couple of times. Unfortunately, it would be very difficult to implement in a way that would guarantee completeness and accuracy. Not only would the software need to change the way VTs and Alternate Names are configured, but it would also need to change dates (for some titles) and Notes.
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:::: Thanks! It's a race then - can I move all of the existing ones before the reports are deployed and run for the first time. I will drop a note to our Serbian editor about the new ID ;) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:58, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
+
::: Perhaps we could implement something less ambitious but still useful. For example, "Undo all Variants for This Author"? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:22, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::Yeah, it's definitely very complex. I like the "Undo all Variants for This Author" idea, though. What about a "swap canonical authors" option on individual titles? That would be a lot less complex and allow for easier catching of potential issues. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:48, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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::::: The requested cleanup reports have been added. The data will become available tomorrow morning. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 22:19, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
+
::::: I don't see the benefit of an "Undo all Variants for This Author" tool. A variant title only needs to be broken if both the canonical title and the variant tiles have publications attributed. If all the publication(s) are associated with the variant title, a simple merge is the best option. Not only does it save a step by not having to delete the old canonical, but it saves all the information. Some data is only stored in the "parent title", plus any edit history. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 15:38, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
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:::::: Thanks. Should be at zero but we will see. We may want to also add all 3 in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?244 Publications with Invalid Non-numeric External IDs] - they are all always numerical (for now). Not urgent at all - but at some point. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:24, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
::::::: Good point. I have added these three ID Types as well as other recently implemented numeric ID Types to the report. I have changed the rules for "Bleiler Supernatural", which, as it turns out, allows a trailing alpha character. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:34, 4 November 2021 (EDT)
+
::I'm slowly working through all of them. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:42, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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== A translator's request for anonymity ==
+
:::I have completed moving all the records to [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?1814 David Mattingly]. I think someone else was moving them, too, so thanks to them, too. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:32, 22 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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I have just entered pub details for [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?866798 The Enlightenment of the Greengage Tree], a novel by an Iranian author which carries the statement on the first page "The translator's name has not been included here for reasons of safety and at the translator's request." Amazon has the translator as "Anonymous", although Goodreads [https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/17553276.Adrien_Kijek identifies] the translator. It's not our place to dox or expose anyone, and the ISFDB has had requests for the witholding of information in the past and more often than not they've been complied with, so I'm suggesting we remove the translator from the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2651656 title record]. Opening this up to other thoughts on the matter. [[User:PeteYoung|PeteYoung]] 06:28, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
+
:::: Joe, thanks for sorting this out. I noticed [[User:Zapp|Zapp]] was helping you. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 19:38, 22 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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: Yes, I do think we should remove the name. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 09:53, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
+
== Server downtime -- 2024-04-06 at 2pm ==
  
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:: Our [[ISFDB:Policy|Policy]] makes a distinction between ''bibliographic'' and ''biographical'' data. On the biographical side, [[ISFDB:Policy#Data_Deletion_Policy|Data Deletion Policy]] says:
+
The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance between 2:00pm and 2:10pm. Both the database side and the Wiki side will be unavailable. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 13:28, 6 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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::* If a living author (or their authorized representative) requests that the ISFDB remove the author's detailed biographical information, the ISFDB will comply after confirming the requester's identity. The ISFDB will remove as much biographical data as needed in order to accommodate legitimate privacy concerns while preserving, to the extent possible, the work of the editors who have compiled the data. A note will be added to the author's record explaining what type of information has been removed and why.
+
: The server is back up. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:05, 6 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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:: On the bibliographic side, we record what's stated in publications "as is". We then use publicly available sources to create variant titles and alternative names.
+
== The Prequel Trilogy ==
  
−
:: In this case, we are dealing with a book originally written in Farsi/Persian and published in an English translation by [https://wilddingopress.com.au/ Wild Dingo Press, an Australian publisher], in 2017. [https://catalogue.slwa.wa.gov.au/search~S2?/i9781925893939/i9781925893939/1%2C1%2C2%2CE/frameset&FF=i9781925893939&1%2C%2C2 The online catalogue of the State Library of Western Australia] lists Adrien Kijek as the translator of the second (2020) edition. So does [https://www.worldcat.org/title/enlightenment-of-the-greengage-tree/oclc/1222876364 OCLC 1222876364], presumably based on the Australian data. When the book was shortlisted for the 2018 Stella Prize, the award site [https://stella.org.au/prize/2018-prize/enlightenment-greengage-tree/ called it] "a unique and profoundly moving novel, translated from Farsi by Adrien Kijek." [https://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article/new-points-of-view-found-in-translation This 2019 Australian magazine review] and other contemporary Australian reviews also listed Adrien Kijek as the translator.
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934500; I have a question about the publisher of this 2007 Star Wars omnibus; there is no mention of Ballantine in the book so it should be similar to the last one on this list, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=del+rey&type=Publisher, but without the SFBC. Should I change publisher to LucasBooks / Del Rey? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:30, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934540; I changed publisher on this one since they were still with Ballantine in 2000. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:22, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
::https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934546; Another change from 2005 when they were still together. I don't see any cover artist credited that someone entered here or any sign of the excerpt mentioned on the book's copyright page. EDIT: One of the earlier editions has a note here saying they got artist from his site. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:31, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934585; Another one from 2006; this one actually has a PV so I'll leave them a message. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:12, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::And a final one, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934586, 2005 HC, PV is gone so no need for a note. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:18, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
:: The questions, as I see them, then are:
+
== Semaphore ==
−
::* Was Adrien Kijek explicitly credited as the translator in the 2017 and 2020 editions by Wild Ding Press? Or was it something disclosed by the Stella Prize organization?
 
−
::* Did the Europa Editions edition use the same translation or did it commission a different one from a different, anonymous, translator?
 
−
:: [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 10:58, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: It is the same translation - see [https://residentjudge.com/2020/10/07/the-enlightenment-of-the-greengage-tree-by-shokoofeh-azar/ this blog] and its explanation (at least it heavily implies it). And it also says that the name is actually in the bibliographic details of at least one of the editions - most likely the Australian one: "It has been translated into English by a translator whose pseudonym appears only in the bibliographic details at the front of the book.". Which means that we can split the translations if we want to, calling them different and clear the name from the Europa ones but it SHOULD stay on the Australian one because it is in the book.
 
−
::: We can remove it and write a lengthy note explaining why we did and why it should not be added back I guess. Not sure that someone won't just delete the note and re-add it from Goodreads, OCLC or another online store but we can. Although I am not sure how to reconcile that with the name being printed inside a book. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:08, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:::: The linked blog post says: "It has been translated into English by a translator whose pseudonym appears only in the bibliographic details at the front of the book." It seems to suggest that "Adrien Kijek" is a pseudonym, but we'd need to check the Wild Ding Press edition to see what it says. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:21, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
+
https://www.lulu.com/fr/search?contributor=Marie+Hodgkinson; While adding PDF story links from Tartarus Press at their old freepages.pavilion.net site the last one I linked was a story by Rebecca Lloyd that was entered here as original to her 2014 collection but was actually published in 2007 in a magazine called Semaphore, no issues of which are on ISFDB, but I found that Lulu page above so anyone who likes entering magazines can add a lot from that. The editor has a page here, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?143960. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:41, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
−
::::: I am not sure I understand the problem. We never know if a translator uses a real name or a pseudonym. Why does it make a difference here? The point is that the name was printed inside of the book according to this review. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:45, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
+
:https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/semaphoremagazine.com; PDF of some (all?) issues at this site. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:50, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
::Looks like it has archived PDFs of all but the last issue (issue 15) from June 2011. I'll work on these. The first issue is now [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?1002803 here]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:32, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::Okay, I think they're [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?73131 all entered] (15 issues in total). I also found a [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?73148 couple anthologies] collecting the stories and poems voted best by readers of the magazine. I don't know if there were more than the two anthologies. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:33, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::Excellent. Only thing I think you forgot is June 2008's cover artist. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 14:07, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::::Fixed! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:11, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
:::::: The concern above was "It's not our place to dox or expose anyone". If "Adrien Kijek" was a pseudonym, then it would presumably address the concern. We can simply write that the Wild Ding Press edition credited the translator using this pseudonym and the Europa Editions edition stated that the translator chose to remain anonymous. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:08, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
+
== David Ireland ==
  
−
::::::: I have been given a scan of the copyright page of the Wild Dingo Press edition. Here is what the bibliographically relevant parts say:
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?3106; I just made edits adding the Allen Lane HC of City of Women and adding a link to Mortal Fire where the 1982 short story is from and noticed that the Wiki page makes no mention of any art so I think the famed Australian novelist and the artist are 2 different people. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:28, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
−
:::::::* Published by Wild Dingo Press
 
−
:::::::* Melbourne, Australia
 
−
:::::::* books@wilddingopress.com.au
 
−
:::::::* www.wilddingopress.com.au
 
−
:::::::* First published by Wild Dingo Press 2017
 
−
:::::::* Text copyright © Shokoofeh Azar
 
−
:::::::* The moral right of the author has been asserted.
 
−
:::::::* Cover design: Debra Billson
 
−
:::::::* Paintings by Shokoofeh Azar used for cover design: 1. The Poetry Night; 2. Two Birds; 3. Red Bird and Moon
 
−
:::::::* '''Translator: Adrien Kijek'''
 
−
:::::::* Editor: Catherine Lewis
 
−
:::::::* Typesetting: Midland Typesetters, Australia
 
−
:::::::* National Library of Australia
 
−
:::::::* Cataloguing-in-Publications Data
 
−
:::::::* Azar, Shokoofeh, author.The enlightenment of the greengage tree / Shokoofeh Azar.
 
−
:::::::* ISBN: 9780987381309 (paperback)
 
−
:::::::* ISBN: 9780987381316 (ebook)
 
−
:::::::* Magic realism (Literature) Families—Iran—Fiction. Islam and civil society—Fiction. Iran—History—Revolution, 1979—Fiction. Iran—History—1979–1997—Fiction.
 
−
::::::: [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 23:26, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:::::::: As the name does appear in the first edition, I accept that bibliographically speaking it's a detail that should stay. I've added qualifying details to the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2651656 title record], and thanks for your input everyone. [[User:PeteYoung|PeteYoung]] 06:51, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
+
== Canonical name change Jody A. Lee from Jody Lee ==
  
−
== Add warning when importing multi-language titles ==
+
The [https://www.jodylee.org/ artist's website] and [https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/lee_jody_a SFE] use Jody A. Lee. While the majority of her early work was credited to 'Jody Lee', the shift to 'Jody A. Lee' is clear. Here are the current statistics.
 +
*111 titles credited to Jody A. Lee.
 +
*73 titles credited to Jody Lee.
 +
*26 titles hasve publications credited to each.
 +
Are there any objections to making [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?25820 Jody A. Lee] the canonical name and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?25602 Jody Lee] the alternate? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 14:24, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:Sounds good to me. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:41, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
Can we get a yellow warning when importing a title in a language different from the reference title's language. See [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5075850 this] for example - the title and author match, the cover image is ok but the languages of the book and of the cover are different so it should not have been imported that way. Unless the moderators and/or editors specifically watch out for that (or recognize the publisher name as non-native for the artist so they check specifically), these get missed and we need to fix later. Adding a yellow warning so both the editor and the moderator know to check on submission will help. Thanks! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 21:01, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
+
:: No objections here. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:47, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
: Sounds reasonable. {{FR|1462}} has been created. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 22:28, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
+
::: Hearing no objections, done. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 17:47, 15 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::https://ixgallery.com/artists/jodylee/; Here's her photo in case someone wants to upload it to the wiki. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 17:58, 15 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::::{{done}}Done! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:28, 17 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
== New cleanup report to find 'uncredited' COVERART artists ==
+
== ISBN hyphenation changed ==
  
−
A new cleanup report that finds 'uncredited' COVERART artists has been deployed. The data will become available tomorrow morning and is expected to be limited to 17 matching records.
+
As I am sure most of you know, different publishers' ISBNs are hyphenated differently. Possible permutations include:
 +
* 978-1-64973-127-2
 +
* 978-1-9821-9317-1
 +
* 979-8-200-29585-2
 +
* 979-10-281-0150-3
 +
* 979-8-9856919-6-2
  
−
{{FR|1454}} also covers "unknown" COVERART artists. They weren't added to this iteration of the cleanup report because we have only [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?USE_1=title_ttype&O_1=exact&TERM_1=COVERART&C=AND&USE_2=author_canonical&O_2=exact&TERM_2=unknown&USE_3=title_title&O_3=exact&TERM_3=&USE_4=title_title&O_4=exact&TERM_4=&USE_5=title_title&O_5=exact&TERM_5=&USE_6=title_title&O_6=exact&TERM_6=&USE_7=title_title&O_7=exact&TERM_7=&USE_8=title_title&O_8=exact&TERM_8=&USE_9=title_title&O_9=exact&TERM_9=&USE_10=title_title&O_10=exact&TERM_10=&ORDERBY=title_title&ACTION=query&START=0&TYPE=Title two matching records] and they are both associated with primary-verified publications. They are kind of special cases and I can see the logic behind the decision to use "unknown". I'll leave a note on the verifier's Talk page to see what his thoughts are. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 22:23, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
+
"The International ISBN Agency" maintains [https://www.isbn-international.org/range_file_generation a list of rules] which determine in which positions hyphens are supposed to appear. Almost all publishers follow them, although there have been some exceptions, notably Tor prior to 2007.
−
::I'm the one who added those unknown cover artists.  In the case of the Lumley collection, the unknown artist is for the splipcase, which is pictured. My thinking is that I didn't want the slipcase cover to be confused with the dust jacket.  There is a note on the publication record explaining the two COVERART records. For The Whisperer, the cover is a composite of 4 covers from the pulp magazine.  I was able to identify two of the artist for those covers, but not for the other one or two covers.  Since it's a combined credit, I didn't want the COVERART record to be used to assert that the artist of those individual covers had been identified.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 07:06, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: "The Whisperer" needs a note explaining that. While semi-obvious once you know the explanation, if two are identified, they really need to be linked in the notes somewhere so it is clear which ones we are still trying to identify and where the author credit comes from and why we have the cover credit that way. And we really should have the explanation on the COVERART record notes as well for both I think. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:13, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:::: If we agree that "unknown" can be a valid artist credit in certain rare cases, I can update the FR and close it. I could also create another, similar, cleanup report which would look for COVERART titles with "unknown" artists and let moderators ignore them. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:05, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
+
When ISFDB 2.0 was developed in 2004-2006, the rules -- as they existed back then -- were manually incorporated in the ISFDB software. What we didn't realize at the time was how complex the rules would become over the course of the following 20 years. As the number of publishers (and self-publishers) exploded, the International ISBN Agency had to create more and more rules to accommodate the growth and the ISBN handling part of the ISFDB software, which was last updated in 2010, fell hopelessly behind. The result was that many ISBNs were hyphenated incorrectly when displayed on ISFDB pages.
−
::::: There are also a few similar cases on the uncredited list which will fall under the same exception (and a few other oddities). The clear ones had been taken care of - the ones still in the report need some thinking over. I am thinking if they should stay uncredited or shifted to unknown and what exactly we want to do for awhile. So maybe let the dust settle a bit first? I don't think we need a separate report but we may need to standardize how we add "we know half the artist credit only" :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:13, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:::::: Sure, there is no hurry. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:39, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
+
Earlier today I deployed a fairly big patch which changed the way the ISFDB software determines where hyphens are displayed. We now follow the International ISBN Agency's current rules to the letter. There is also a way to update our rules programmatically whenever the Agency rolls out new rules. I expect that we will be doing it a few times a year, which will let us stay more or less in sync with the Agency. (We also have special exceptions for Tor and the other 2 publishers which didn't follow the rules prior to 2007.)
  
−
:::::::Notes added to the two COVERART records. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 17:40, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
+
As always, if you come across any issues with this software change, please let me know. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:07, 16 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:Thanks for all your hard work behind the scenes on stuff like this. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:03, 16 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
== Changes to review auto-linking ==
+
:: To quote Damon Knight, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_(The_Twilight_Zone) I am here to serve man!] :-) {{unsigned|Ahasuerus}}
  
−
The way New/Edit/Clone Publication submissions automatically link reviews to reviewed titles has been changed.
+
== Publication Title Without a Related Title Record ==
  
−
In the past, the match was based on the title and the name of the author. If a matching book-length title was found, the review was automatically linked to it even even if the language was different or if there were other matching titles. If no matching book-length title was found, the auto-link logic would look for a matching SHORTFICTION title using the same matching criteria.
+
I am about to create a new pub record under [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1034 That Hideous Strength] by C. S. Lewis.  There is a subtitle on the title page so the full, correct publication title is: <i>That Hideous Strength: A Modern Fairy-Tale for Grown-Ups</i>. Looking at the title record I see there are five publications (three of which have been PVd) with this subtitle. However, they do not have a related title record "That Hideous Strength: A Modern Fairy-Tale for Grown-Ups" and consequently there is no varianting. Is this correct and if so why? [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:42, 17 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
: It is not correct. The publication title should match the reference title. [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?93 This report] highlights 1000 exceptions each day (I don't know the selection algorithm). First determine, subtitle or no subtitle, which should be the canonical? It's also a good idea to review the publications and make sure they are recorded correctly. Whichever you determine, it will be a multi-step edit. Ask if you have questions.  If I'm online, ping me and I'll approve as you submit. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 20:14, 17 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
::You have confirmed my suspicions. The cleanup report to which you refer does not include "That Hideous Strength" so I guess it's because it is limited to 1000 records. I'm happy to clean up this title. I'm satisfied that "That Hideous Strength" (without subtitle) is the more appropriate canonical title. I have inspected the five pub records with the subtitle and each looks internally consistent. Three of these have PVs. Do I need to consult with PVs or can this sort of housekeeping be performed without PVs' consent? [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 12:42, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
::: It's not necessary to contact the PV's. You're merely correcting the reference title. I know you intend to perform all the steps and will indicate such in the note to moderator. I noticed this title wasn't on the report. Perhaps [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] will chime in and explain the algorithm determining which titles to report. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 15:45, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::First step submitted: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5944215 Unmerge titles]. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 16:26, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::::Approved, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 16:33, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::::Step 2 submitted: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5944273 merge the 5 reference titles of the subtitled version]. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 17:12, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::::::Approved, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 17:17, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
::::::::Step 3 submitted: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5944284 make subtitled version a variant of canonical title].
 +
::::::::Think that's it for the pubs but I can see there's more work to do:
 +
::::::::A) These two pubs: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?900677 Macmillan 1966] and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?262760 Macmillan 1977] have the variant title but the same canonical coverart title records. So I'm pretty sure these need to be changed. The only way I can see to do this involves five more edits:
 +
::::::::Step 4) edit one of the pubs (1966, say) and create a second coverart record under the variant title
 +
::::::::Step 5) variant the coverart record
 +
::::::::Step 6) import the variant coverart record to the 1977 pub
 +
::::::::Step 7) remove the canonical coverart record from the 1966 pub
 +
::::::::Step 8) remove the canonical coverart record from the 1977 pub
 +
::::::::Is there a more efficient way to do this?
 +
::::::::B) Those same two pubs contain an essay [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?965984 Preface (That Hideous Strength)] which has a disambiguator under the canonical title. Does the disambiguator have to be changed to the variant title. I'm unsure about this because the phrase is only a disambiguator; it's not actually part of the title of the essay. Can you please advise.
 +
::::::::My goodness, this is long-winded! [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
Post-change, the auto-linking logic is triggered only if the two languages are identical. In addition, if there is more than one matching title, the logic will not be triggered. This can be important if we have multiple translations with the same title on file.
+
(unindent)<br>
 +
Submit two edits for each pub. (All four at once)
 +
*Submission 1 - Add the new variant titles, COVERART and preface.
 +
*Submission 2 - Remove the canonicals.
 +
Since these submissions will generate change notices, reference this conversation in the note to moderator.
 +
After I approve all four, I'll perform the two merges. You will just need to link the variants. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 18:48, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
Let's use {{A|Philip K. Dick}}'s [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?948 ''Ubik''] as an example. In the past, a review of "Ubik by Philip K. Dick" would be automatically linked to the English canonical title -- because it has the lowest record ID in the database -- regardless of the language of the review. Post-change, the software will check the language of the review and find a matching title. English reviews will be linked to the English title, German reviews will be linked to the German translation, French reviews will be linked to the French translations, etc. Note that Portuguese reviews will '''not''' be auto-linked because we have 2 different Portuguese translations with the same title on file. They will need to be linked manually. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:08, 5 November 2021 (EDT)
+
::Yes, I see where you're going with this. About the same number of edits but fewer Wait For Approval stages. Four edits submitted. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 07:12, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::Approved, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 07:22, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
: A related patch has been deployed. "Link review" submissions which would create a language mismatch between the review and the reviewed title now get a yellow warning. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:15, 6 November 2021 (EDT)
+
::::Two Make Variants submitted. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 07:52, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
== Additional Link Review yellow warnings ==
+
:::::I've checked all the affected records and everything looks good to me apart from one error that must have been present before we started the cleanup: the date of the canonical title of the Preface ([https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5944959 correction submitted]). So I think we've finally reached the end. If there's anything I've missed, let me know. Many thanks for all your assistance with this John. Much appreciated. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 16:34, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
The following yellow warnings have been added to the post-submission page for Link Review submissions:
+
::::::Fortunately, there is a scan of the first edition in the internet archive. I added the preface and a link to the scan [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?87759 here]. As you know, the canonical is dated to the first appearance, even if it is as a variant. I put your submission on hold, assuming you would rather cancel than have me reject it. I enjoyed working on this with you. Ping me anytime. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 18:43, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
* The review title doesn't match the title of the reviewed work
+
:::::::Oh, that's interesting. It hadn't occurred to me to look for an archive of the first ed because I had looked in Currey who states the following regarding the first Pan pb (1955): 'adds new author's "preface"'. So it's possible that there are two different prefaces. This requires more research which I don't have time to do now and may not have the resources anyway. But it's fine to leave the ISFDb records as they are for now; they are all self consistent. I have cancelled my submission. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 04:46, 20 April 2024 (EDT)
−
* The review date is before the date of the reviewed title
 
−
* The type of the reviewed title is uncommon, i.e. not 'ANTHOLOGY', 'COLLECTION', 'NOVEL', 'NONFICTION', 'OMNIBUS' or 'SHORTFICTION'
 
−
* Review authors do not match title authors
 
−
* (previously implemented) Review language does not match the language of the reviewed title
 
  
−
[[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 10:25, 7 November 2021 (EST)
+
== Trademark markings in titles ==
  
−
== Zoms ==
+
My understanding is that we generally don't include symbols like ® and <sup>TM</sup> in titles because they usually indicate information ''about'' the title but are not usually ''part'' of the title. As JLaTondre [[ISFDB:Community Portal/Archive/Archive28#Shadowkeep|wrote in 2012]], "There is distinction between a title that has a '®' or 'TM' as part of the title and a title that adds the '®' or 'TM' for legal reasons." I'm asking because I ran across [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2720942 this title] that has one as part of the title, and I don't think it's actually part of the title itself, but rather added for legal reasons. This might be something we should clarify on [[Help:Screen:Title]]. This was discussed [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Rules_and_standards_discussions/Archive/Archive03#One_for_the_.22EXACT_title.2C_including_all_punctuation_and_special_characters.22_crowd way back in 2007], but I haven't yet found any more recent discussions (outside of the 2012 one I mentioned above). Thoughts? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:51, 23 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:I'm the editor with the sole PV for that ebook pub. I have no objection to removing it since the trademark symbol really only applies to the "Liaden Universe" portion of the title. It is on the title page and cover that way. Clarification of the rule would be a good idea. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 13:44, 23 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?190049; Second Edition e-book under original edition, TP Second Edition separate. Probably not right. --[[User:Username|Username]] 13:05, 7 November 2021 (EST)
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== Supermonsters ==
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:Books about movies only are not eligible for inclusion and the author doesn't fit the threshold exception. Unless someone sees a reason for keeping that I'm missing, I will delete them all. I'll get it a day or two first. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 15:48, 7 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
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== Driftglider ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2600565; I added Supermonsters as a variant (and subbed a better cover image) but it's from 1986 like the German parent so if anyone can find a copyright page scan which verifies the month is earlier the American cover would become the parent; I couldn't find one, but I do see on eBay that Archway released a much earlier PB in Sep. '78 with a photo of the cool American-added demon from the 1950s film Night/Curse of the Demon on the cover but the 2 sellers that showed the copyright page have editions that say 1 2 9 8 below the printing info; whether that's a number line or what I don't know but if anyone owns a copy you may want to enter yours. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:47, 24 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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I saw on Jeffrey Osier's page, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?11153, that he had one story published way after all the others, and as usual I checked about that and found that "The Algae Angels" was actually published 25 YEARS EARLIER (as "Algae Angels") in Osier's very rare 1993 collection Driftglider and Other Stories, published by Montilla, who were a Lovecraftian publisher judging by their other publications. There's no copies on OpenLibrary or Worldcat, but there is an Amazon page and 1 eBay auction. I entered the info from the Amazon page, but the eBay seller says 112 pages instead of 109 and gives the month as December. So if anyone here actually owns a copy and can verify # of pages, full contents and their page #'s, month, whether Osier did the cover, if "Algae Angels" has "The" or not, etc. you can reply here. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:04, 8 November 2021 (EST)
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== Ray Daley possible death ==
  
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== Gothic Series ==
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It's possible [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?235688 Ray Daley] has died, though I haven't found an obituary or any other official report. He was in the hospital since the end of March due to a heart attack, and a number of people are posting condolences on an open call group on Facebook as well as on [https://www.facebook.com/raymond.daley.10/ his profile there]. I'll try to keep an eye on it and keep looking for an obituary or other official report. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 11:01, 24 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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So I came across Shadow of Evil, which was a retitling of Greye La Spina's Invaders from the Dark, and I noticed on eBay there's a number on the spine and the words "A Paperback Library Gothic" on the cover and realized there seemed to be a series. Checking further here, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?3809, I saw most of these were Dark Shadows books, and I'm not touching them because they published hundreds of those things, but the non-Dark Shadows books all seem to have a number, at least the ones I could find spine photos of. Also, 1 of the dates was wrong, being from 1966 instead of 1965, and some copyright page photos revealed months, many of which weren't entered previously. Problem is when I worked backwards to the first book, Lost Lake, it said on the copyright page, which can be seen on Richard Dalby's site, that it was originally from 1964 but the copy was a second printing from 1966. The photo I found somewhere that showed the spine said 5, but that can't be right because books published later had lower numbers. I think what happened is they republished some older Paperback Library books in this series and then numbered them, but the older editions didn't have any numbers, so the photo I saw of Lost Lake must be of the 1966 edition. It's all very confusing (I'm not even sure the #2 I entered for Curse of Doone is right because the 1 spine photo I could find, on Amazon, is so blurry it looks 3D). So when those edits are reached I think some shuffling/fixing might be needed. This might take a bit of extra work, so if anyone has copies of these books in any of their editions it would be helpful; I don't think I ever found a copyright page for Shadow of Evil to enter the exact date, and that Karlova book completely eluded me; knowing the months for every book would help in making sure the series numbering is in order. --[[User:Username|Username]] 00:03, 9 November 2021 (EST)
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== 日本SFファンドム賞 (Japan SF Fandom Award) entry completed ==
  
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== Linking excerpts to sources ==
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It took me almost a year to do it (due to various things distracting me from it), but [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/awardtype.cgi?105 it's done]. Please let me know if anyone has any questions. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:51, 24 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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There was [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Proposed_Design_Changes#Excerpt talk], long ago, about making excerpts their own type, so they could be linked, like reviews, to the original. An alternative suggestion was to make it a length of short fiction, which would not help in associating the excerpt to an original. I would like to see some kind of linkage available, to deal with things like [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?899685 Under the Moons of Mars (excerpt)]. What this would link to though, I am unsure about, given it is from a serialization in 6 parts. The approach should also deal with excerpts of upcoming books which do not yet exist. Too vague for a feature request, but maybe enough to get started figuring out what such a feature should look like. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 10:35, 10 November 2021 (EST)
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:And related, I've completed entering the recipients of the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/awardtype.cgi?107 Takumi Shibano Award]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:42, 24 April 2024 (EDT)
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:The serializations should all be varianted to a combined title. If it's never been published combined, then use the date of the last serialized part as the date. Then the excerpt can be connected to it if this is done. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:58, 10 November 2021 (EST)
 
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:: Couple of notes.
 
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::* As per [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:How_to_connect_serials_to_titles How to connect serials to titles]: "Use the year of the final serialization installment as the date of the newly created parent title.". So don't use the date of the last installment please, just its year :)
 
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::* Unless I am misreading Doug, this is an excerpt from the serialization, not the serialization itself. Which means it won't be connected - we will connect the serialization if it is there but not just an excerpt from it (as we won't connect an excerpt from a novel). The only way to connect things now is via the Notes. And yes - I wish we had a better way. We already have Variant standing for "serialization" (if the child is a serial), "translation" if the language is different and variant if it is a new name (or a split novel - which still bugs me). The cleanest way may be actually to work inside of this framework - rename it to Relationship (With the old meanings as 3 of the options) and add a few new ones (excerpt, abridgement, adaptation). That still won't solve the variant of variant we also need (the ability to connect the same translation under two different titles for example or if we make Relationship broader - to show which title exactly it was excerpted from) but it may be a good first step. Of course, it will also require code changes... and cleanup but this is unavoidable. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:27, 10 November 2021 (EST)
 
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:::I do know that we document links in the Notes. And I'd rather wait for a solution than overload Variant even more. I am aware of the hopes attached to the Relationship upgrade. My purpose in raising the topic, and using the example of "Under the Moons of Mars" with a different parent title from the excerpt - "A Princess of Mars", was to develop excerpt requirements for any solution. Even if there are no solutions (yet), what are the excerpt related questions? What an excerpt would link to is unclear - this extract came from the serialized version, but there are other reprints that were not serialized. All of these variant to the canonical title. Would the link be to the canonical title, or the oldest matching variant name (for example author name variant involved) or the exact variant name? And there's the question of how you link to a non-existent title? ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 16:42, 10 November 2021 (EST)
 
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:::: That was just me thinking aloud above :) And no - I am not proposing to overload Variant as it is built now -- just an expansion of it in the future. What we link to will probably depend on how it is implemented - in the best possible solution, we want to link to the text it was actually extracted from (and if it is missing, it can be added). Excerpts from never published works are the only challenge for that but... are these excerpts really or should we treat them as their own works? :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:17, 10 November 2021 (EST)
 
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::::: a) The excerpts are their own works currently, we're just thinking about how to identify the work their based on. And it is still an excerpt from something even if it hasn't been published (yet), so making/calling it an excerpt seems reasonable. b) I can't think of any reason the link wouldn't be TITLE-based. c) Can we rely on the title given to the excerpt as a match to the original? ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 19:29, 10 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::::: The rules for excerpts naming are: "If the excerpt has a different title that the work from which it is excerpted, use that title. Otherwise, use the title of the excerpted work, but add " (excerpt)" to the end; e.g. "A Feast for Crows (excerpt)". ". So technically you should have a match for the ones with the (excerpt) on them but these are NOT all excerpts in the DB. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 00:53, 13 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
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== Joe Hill Story Title ==
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== Shadow People ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?310352; Fantlab had the chapbook, I added cover, title was wrong, fixed that, short story's title was wrong, deleted and imported right title; I don't know if it's spelled "Commital" anywhere but I think probably not, Archive.org copy of 20th Century Ghosts has "Committal", so I think someone goofed here. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:41, 10 November 2021 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3356; Long-gone PV of C$ Dell ed. entered just "Jones" as artist here, one or the other should be decided on and the 2 merged. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:43, 26 April 2024 (EDT)
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:The [https://imgur.com/a/lu7oepc title page] has "Committal", so I suspect you're correct. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:56, 10 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
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== Live Girls ==
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== [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?341005 Joshua T. Calvert] / [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?327917 Joshua Tree] ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1623; The Macdonald edition had the wrong cover so I added the right one from Fantlab; thing is that the old cover has Ron Lesser's signature on it like the original Pocket edition but the publisher logo on bottom of spine is one I don't recognize. The British editions use the same cover art but don't have Lesser's signature, so I assume this is an American edition, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know? It might be an edition that needs entering here. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:02, 10 November 2021 (EST)
+
Hi! Along with updating the author records I have brought the installing of the first name as a pseudonym for the second on the way (incl. the varianting to the respective original titles). This was based on the information given at the German Wikipedia, which discloses the pseudonym. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] ([[User talk:Stonecreek|talk]]) 11:31, 29 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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== Whitley Strieber Questions ==
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: As a point of reference, Amazon.com uses the same author photo on the [https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XK9QMC9 Joshua T. Calvert page] and the [https://www.amazon.com/stores/Joshua-Tree/author/B06Y2M9HT7 Joshua Tree page]. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:01, 29 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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I was doing some work on Strieber's books and saw 1 of them had the same title, The Day After Tomorrow, as the big 2004 disaster movie. Turns out they're related, but I'm not sure how. There's several editions on ISFDB, none of which mention the fact that the movie was largely based on Strieber's 1999 "non-fiction" book about supposed global warming and climate change titled The Coming Global Superstorm, co-written with well-known crackpot Art Bell. The book isn't marked as a novelization, so does anyone know if Strieber wrote a fictional version of his book or the publisher just reprinted the 1999 book (and didn't bother crediting Bell)? I think I'm going to make it a novelization. Also, I asked about Strieber's very rare collection Evenings With Demons somewhere here a while ago, and just now I found that there's a record on Fantlab, https://fantlab.ru/edition327940, with a beautiful photo of the entire contents page; problem is after I entered all 9 stories Strieber wrote up to 1997 when the book was published there are still 16 other stories in the contents. If anyone owns a copy and knows if any of them are genre-related and should be on ISFDB reply here. Also, Fantlab and a (very) few sites online mention Steve Neill as the cover artist while different sites say it's either 304 pages or 306 pages, so those need verifying, too. --[[User:Username|Username]] 22:20, 10 November 2021 (EST)
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:Okay, these have been varianted and everything is under [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?341005 this entry] now. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 10:52, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
  
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== French Prices ==
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:: Checking [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/mod/submission_search_results.cgi?submitter_name=Stonecreek&status=Pending Stonecreek's pending submissions] (moderator only), I see a number of Make Variant submissions which suggest that the books that we have on file were originally published in German as by "Joshua Tree". We'll presumably need to reverse the canonical/alternate name relationship, which should be easy to do since we have only 2 titles as by "Joshua Tree" at this time. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 11:26, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
 +
:::Okay, I've swapped the information and approved (I believe) all the related pending submissions. I'll work through the others in case there are more. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:18, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5146875; Just made this edit which adds the cover image and, as you can see, there's a warning about the price. Lots of discussion about foreign prices spurred by my Hachette post recently, so I'm guessing this is somehow related and may need someone to decide what's the right way to enter the price. --[[User:Username|Username]] 22:32, 10 November 2021 (EST)
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:::: Thanks! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:30, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
  
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== Steven Sidor canonical name ==
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::::: I have entered all English language "Joshua T. Calvert" pubs that Fixer was aware of and linked them to their "Joshua Tree" parents. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 22:21, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
  
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Any objections to reversing the canonical name [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?157496 here]? In the last years he writes as S. A. Sidor when he writes speculative fiction and as Steven Sidor when writing the books we do no care about in the DB. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 04:31, 12 November 2021 (EST)
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== Le Splash! ==
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: With no objections heard, the canonical was switched. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 06:01, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
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== (The) Puppet Master ==
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https://archive.org/search?query=splash+don-ian; French edition of the mermaid movie novelization in case anyone fluent wants to enter it. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 22:56, 30 April 2024 (EDT)
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:<s>That may be how it was credited. It's [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?36221 currently varianted]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 10:53, 3 May 2024 (EDT)</s>
 +
::Um, I think Joe's response may be for another subject. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:10, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
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:::Yup, not sure which one mine was for. Sorry for the confusion. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 11:57, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
  
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Did some work on Arkana books, but this one, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?17981, stumped me. The PV of 1 edition, who hasn't been on his page for more than 3 years, entered the title wrong, and wrote a long note about ISBN and American vs. British editions, etc. There's a previewable copy, https://archive.org/details/puppetmasternove00greerich, which has a Penguin Books in addition to Arkana on the back cover and different ISBN on copyright page vs. back cover, so I don't know which edition it belongs to, although I'm guessing it should be for the British. Sweet cover art, so I'd like to get it entered here. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:58, 12 November 2021 (EST)
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== Additions to verified publication ==
  
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== Webb Date ==
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hello mods! I am going to submit a few little additions (printing month, pub series name, external ID) to [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?503484 this book], which was primarily verified by Chavey, whose talk page says to post inquiries about modifications at the moderator board. Can I submit? thanks!  -  --[[User:Fantagufo|Fantagufo]] ([[User talk:Fantagufo|talk]]) 08:13, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
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:Go ahead and submit them, then post here again. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 10:17, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
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https://www.worldcat.org/title/new-farmers-almanac/oclc/1260164736; Don Webb's story "Seven-Four Planting", http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1217330, has a 1993 date on ISFDB and in Webb's Weird Wild West; however, it says on the copyright page that it was a surplus with Webb's collection The Bestseller, which has a 1990 date. The Worldcat link above shows what that surplus was and it also has a 1990 date, so I think the story's date should be changed to 1990, correct? It's probably just another case of publishers not getting info right in their own books and then whoever entered the info here not double-checking to make sure it was correct. The other story, "One Hundred", has a 1987 date on ISFDB so that one's OK. --[[User:Username|Username]] 00:38, 13 November 2021 (EST)
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:: Done! [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5954969 Here] is the submission. After approval I'll add my Primary verification. <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Fantagufo|Fantagufo]] ([[User talk:Fantagufo|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fantagufo|contribs]]) .</small> 10:50, 3 May 2024‎ (EDT)
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:::Approved. [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?503484 Here's the entry now]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:00, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
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== My Recommendation System using ISFDB Data ==
 
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I'm currently working on a recommendation system for speculative fiction titles using ISFDB data (https://www.bookclub.guide). Like the Netflix or Goodreads algorithms, it would recommend books to users based on the ratings they gave to books in the past, after being trained on a larger set of users' ratings. For the initial set of data, I'm mostly using the [http://www2.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~cziegler/BX/ Bookcrossings data set] as well as some ratings from people I know in real life.
 
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I apologize if this post is off-topic or spammy, but I wanted to let the community know about this project for a few reasons:
 
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1. To let contributers know their work is being used in a downstream project and to say thank you.
 
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2. I may need to correct data problems I find during this project and would rather contribute them to this public source than just correct them in my own database. It's particularly import for my purposes to have the non-genre field set correctly (so non-genre books aren't recommended to users) as well as the juvenile/YA field (so users can filter or ignore these recommendations if they don't read this). However, I realize these edits take up reviewer time and they might be less of a priority for ISFDB. If this is the case, I could just make the changes in my own data, but I thought I'd ask about this first.
 
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3. In case anyone here is interested in the project, either in general, or to get reading recommendations as the project matures. Note that since most of the data is from a 2004 data set, it doesn't do a good job recommending anything published after that. Also, Bookcrossings users weren't specifically genre readers, so there's some mismatch between their taste and the users I'm trying to give recommendations to. Frankly, I'd also appreciate anyone who would like to give their own ratings by creating an account and rating books they've read, or by sending them to me in some other format (I can ingest Goodreads exports for example).
 
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I'm publicly hosting the code for my project on GitHub:
 
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The website/recommendation system code:
 
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https://github.com/JustinL42/rec_sys_app
 
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The database migration code:
 
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https://github.com/JustinL42/isfdb_migration
 
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I'd welcome feedback on the project, either from the perspective of users or developers. I can be reached at justin.lavoie@post.com.
 
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[[User:JustinL42|JustinL42]] 21:51, 13 November 2021 (EST)JustinL42
 
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: Thanks for letting us know! It's good to see that our data set continues to be used by various projects.
 
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: From the development perspective, one thing to keep in mind is that our tables have evolved over the years. For example, there was a time when we didn't have separate "award type" or "award category" tables, no database support for publication series, etc. We have tentative plans to enhance other aspects of the database, which will probably involve creating new table for series, publication series and prices. Nothing definite at the moment, but it's something to keep in mind.
 
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: Good luck with your project! Recommendation algorithms are a notoriously tough nut to crack. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:57, 14 November 2021 (EST)
 
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:: From the moderation perspective, we always welcome any and all improvements - the non-genre and juvenile flags are relatively new (they used to hide into a multi-value field) and as a result they are not consistently used). Add to that the fact that some YA novels are really not YA but adult ones being marketed down for one reason or another and the more mature YA rarely seems to get the flag set - there is too much research involved with them sometimes. Feel free to submit any changes you want but keep a few things in mind:
 
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::* If you drop a few hundred updates at the same time, it will take time to process them
 
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::* Adding an explanation to the moderator notes on why you think the flag needs to be set is a good idea and will speed up the processing. If there are PVs on the books you are changing the titles for, we generally will need to seek agreement or at least leave a notification. That slows the process but with collaborative sites, this is important.
 
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::* If you change the flags on a title , you also need to change them on all related titles as follows:
 
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:::* All variants of the main title - including translations.
 
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:::* If you are changing a SHORTFICTION/CHAPBOOK record, the other one also needs to be changed manually (and all variants of both of them)
 
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::* Sometimes the handling moderator will disagree with you (for example there are YA novels in English which are marketed as 16+/18+ when translated - see my note above about the YA/adult boundary and its fluidity. Marking these as juvenile really does not make much sense - we are an international site after all).
 
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:: We communicate through the wiki pages so if you are going to submit updates, we expect you to also respond on your Talk page and discuss your changes with the rest of the editors if required. Welcome to ISFDB! :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 01:41, 15 November 2021 (EST)
 
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== Adding revised to title? ==
 
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I remove "(revised)" from a [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?168241 publication title] since it did not appear that way on the title page, and I had assumed that was the standard.  A moderator restored the "(revised)" to the title since it had been revised from the original edition.  This does not seem to be a consistent rule.  I often see collections and anthologies with different selections and the same name.  Just adding revised wouldn't necessarily clear thing since it doesn't specify what it was revised from.  Right now there isn't a way to determine which pubs had different contents that the first edition or any others.  Should be marking these more often?  What should we do here? [[User:Taweiss|TAWeiss]] 08:33, 14 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:"The title should appear exactly as published" is what is stated in the help text, so I think you're right. The moderator in question was absent for a longer time, and may not have recognized that we do it now different than before. Applying a note also to the title entry ''is'' helpful, though (which I'll do). Thanks, [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 10:22, 14 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Anne Holmberg caninical name switch ==
 
−
 
 
−
Any objections to switching [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?127949 Anne Holmberg] canonical name to [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?118565 Anne Avery]? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 05:56, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:Nope. Looks pretty cut-and-dried to me. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:56, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Waiting for approval ==
 
−
 
 
−
Normally I wouldn't complain, but I'm just wondering why the pending edits are piling up.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 13:00, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
: A few people are off for one reason or another, a few editors with very poor quality submissions which require a lot of time to process had been sending a lot of submissions and you have the perfect storm. Happens occasionally. Should hopefully calm down in the next days (may get a bit crazy next week with the holiday again but we shall see). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:08, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
::Thanks! I just hope I'm not one of the editors with poor quality submissions.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 15:05, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
::: If noone reminds you about the same thing 2 times per week for months or, even worse, had given up on you and just fixes anything you add without as much as a note, you are doing fine. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:13, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Adding currencies so the currency list ==
 
−
 
 
−
Can we add the following to the [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:List_of_currency_symbols list]:
 
−
* Lev (Bulgaria)
 
−
* Lei (Romania)
 
−
* Din (dinar; Serbia and Yugoslavia and other countries from the Federation before switching to their own)
 
−
* RUB (Ruble - USSR and Russia and other ex-Soviet republics before switching to their own)
 
−
* kn (kuna - Croatia since 1994)
 
−
* Kč (Czech Koruna)
 
−
* zł (polish zlota)
 
−
* hrn (Ukrainian hryvnia)
 
−
* Sk (Slovak Koruna before the Euro)
 
−
Thanks! Or should I just add them? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:25, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: A couple of thoughts:
 
−
:* Most of these look straightforward. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinar A number of other countries use dinars], but the symbol "Din" is only used for the Serbia/Yugoslavian dinar. The symbol for the Macedonian dinar is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_denar apparently Den].
 
−
:* The symbol for the Belarusian ruble is "BR", so "RUB" should be unambiguous.
 
−
:* Given the rising number of currencies that we support, I am thinking that we may want to add mouseover help for currency values. It would be similar to the way we display mouseover help for publication formats. It wouldn't be as comprehensive as what {{FR|1158}}, "Allow multiple prices per publication", envisions, but it would be fairly easy to implement and it would be a step in the right direction.
 
−
: [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:56, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:: A mouseover is a Great idea.
 
−
:: These are also already in use so if we are changing any, now is the time. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:04, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
::: One more for the list:
 
−
:::* TL - Turkish Lira (Turkey and Northern Cyprus). Our records are split between that and the symbol ₺. I prefer TL (easier to recognize) but we are adding more books so time to decide which direction we are going.
 
−
::: And we probably need to add zl -> zł and Kc -> Kč automatic conversions as we do for E, L and Y. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:41, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
::: And we need to decide what we are doing with the "portuguese escudos". The DB has esc and PTE and Wikipedia says it is another $ currency... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 23:43, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:::: I have added an "Abbrev." column to the [[Help:List of currency symbols]] table. I have also created {{FR|1468}}, "Auto-convert price values starting with zl and Kc", and {{FR|1467}}, "Add mouseover Help for prices".
 
−
:::: I'll wait another day or two and see if there are any suggestions before I add the currencies listed above to the table. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:27, 17 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::::: I have added the currencies listed above except for the Portuguese escudo. I'll prettify the rows to use alternating colors later (unless a volunteer gets to it first.) [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:34, 21 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Publisher in transition ==
 
−
 
 
−
I recently rejected a submission to change the publisher of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?320969 this book] from Harper & Row to Thomas Y. Crowell.  My reasoning was that both Reginald and Worldcat listed the publisher as Harper.  Even the Open Library record that the submitter added lists the publisher as Harper although, the archive.org scan linked from OL lists only the Crowell.  I had assumed that this was an attempt to add a different edition overwriting an existing one (update vs. clone).  The submitter complained that Harper had purchased Crowell in 1979, and the book was published in 1980.  [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Y._Crowell_Co. Wikipedia] states that Harper acquired Crowell in 1978 and merged it with Lippincott as "Lippincott & Crowell" in 1979 and ultimately merging it into Harper & Row in 1980.  I also discovered in researching this that the ISBN of the Crowell scan in archive.org matches the ISBN of the Harper record in Worldcat.  So I think we are talking about a single publication of the book, which from the scan does not mention Harper at all.  However, four secondary sources refer to a Harper edition (Worldcat, Library of Congress, Reginald, Open Library).  My worry is that if we create a Crowell record, someone will at some point see any of those secondary sources and re-add a Harper record. A note in the Crowell edition would be insufficient as it isn't normal to check all other editions of a book that is believed missing. I'd like to recommend that even though Harper isn't mentioned in the book, that we list the publisher as as "Thomas Y. Crowell / Harper & Row".  This way it would be clear as to the imprint / publisher arrangement.  Thoughts?  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 18:45, 18 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
: I think that this is a good solution considering the way all sources had filed that book. A note explaining why we credit it this way can explain our reasoning. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:09, 18 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: Another mystery: http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?40709. Cover art is the same as the other editions, but Atheneum isn't mentioned anywhere in the Archive.org copy. I changed publisher to Charles Scribner's Sons, since that's what it says on title page; however, it also mentions Macmillan, and Charles Scribner's Sons' publisher page on ISFDB says it was an imprint of Macmillan from mid-80's until late 90's, but there's not a single book on ISFDB with the publisher listed as Charles Scribner's Sons / Macmillan or any combination thereof. So if anyone thinks it should be an imprint then there's the mess of checking every Charles Scribner's Sons book in those years and seeing if Macmillan needs to be added to them, too. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:07, 19 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Bumper Book ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?359103; I saw a copy of the First Bumper Book on Archive.org and entered page #'s, then noticed the Third didn't have any contents so I imported them; page count is very different than the original anthology so I looked for a copy and could only find 1 Etsy page where the seller forgot to photo the 2nd contents page, so if anyone owns a copy the contents after p. 145 need their #'s entered. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:07, 19 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== McInerny ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?10080; Famous Catholic writer whose 1 genre novel on ISFDB includes his middle initial but copy on Archive.org has no M. on the cover. I couldn't find any photos of the Tor edition and I believe the cover uploaded to ISFDB's Wiki is the HC because there's no Tor info on it and it looks exactly like the HC cover. I changed format from TP to PB and original date from 1986 to 1985 to reflect the original edition but that's all I can do, so anyone here who owns the PB?. Also, the intro for Lord of the World is in a 2001 edition by St. Augustine's while the preface is in a 2011 edition by St. Augustines; very likely they're the same publisher and I think probably the same intro, too, since he died in 2010. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:56, 21 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:I question whether {{T|10080|The Noonday Devil}} is genre (descriptions seem to fit the "Techno-thriller, political thriller and satire works set in a future indistinguishable from the present" exclusion), but having not read it, cannot be certain. I added the h/w edition, removed the h/c image from the pb edition, and tagged it with "possible non-genre". We will need someone who has read it to make the final decision. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 18:35, 24 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Ian Dallas ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?93321; did an edit for his novel and flap said he converted to Islam and showed him dressed in Arab garb. This, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdalqadir_as-Sufi, shows a name change, so whatever the procedure is for that here, someone might want to look into that. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:02, 22 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:I updated the author entry. Since he only published speculative fiction under Ian Dallas, we would leave that the canonical name. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 19:05, 23 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Science Fiction Chronicle ==
 
−
 
 
−
Some editors might be interested to know that the Open Library is (at this very moment) scanning and uploading issues of the Science Fiction Chronicle.  At first glance, they seem to have a complete run.  There are some gaps in entries for that publication on the ISFDB that could be filled by someone with enough time.  Link: https://archive.org/details/pub_chronicle?&sort=-date --[[User:Watchsmart|Watchsmart]] 08:15, 23 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Seanan Story ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2608600; This collection has what seems to be complete contents entered for the e-book but no contents at all for the HC, which is unusual on ISFDB, with e-books usually getting less complete edits. Also, the editor who entered those contents here, http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User:Mellotronman, is a name I don't think I've ever come across before even after thousands of edits. The HC record says deluxe, so it's possible they included exclusive material not in the e-book; maybe someone who reads this owns a copy?. There's also 1 story in this collection, "Uncle Sam", which was published on a dead site called Edge of Propinquity (although some remnants remain online), that is VERY creepy, not the kind of story you'd expect to read in a book titled Laughter at the Academy. I added a link to the story in an edit (awaiting approval), which is 1 of the stories still online, so no need to use Archive.org for once. --[[User:Username|Username]] 22:50, 24 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Wimp(e)y ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?750861; Robert Westall's "Blackham's Wimpey" appeared in Break of Dark; Shades of Darkness, American and Brit editions, title it "Blackham's Wimpy" (both are on Archive.org). There are several other editions of Break of Dark on Archive.org that aren't on ISFDB and ISFDB lists another couple of recent editions; Valancourt's 2016 collection Spectral Shadows goes back to using "Wimpey". So the alternate title probably belongs here for at least a couple of books. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:56, 25 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== When should an abstract or excerpt be indexed ==
 
−
 
 
−
Hi all. I'm going through a stack of books I own (a publication series) but struggling to decide whether to index some of the contents. [[Template:PublicationInfo:WhatToInclude|PublicationInfo:WhatToInclude]] isn't clear in this case so thought I'd raise it here.
 
−
There are two types of content im having issues with. The first are abstracts at the end of each book of the next book in the series. It's clearly intended as advertisement but the format makes it less clear cut. The length of these are half a page to a page.
 
−
The second is an excerpt from the current book at the start of the book itself. Normally about half a page on yhe front endpaper.
 
−
Either way I'll make sure to include the info in the Notes, my question here is whether to index these as content. Cheers /[[User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 04:49, 26 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:It is left up to your judgement to determine whether it is content important/significant enough to warrant indexing.  In my opinion, indexing excerpts of OTHER books is useful in that it can sometimes help narrow down an otherwise unknown/unstated publication date for that other book.  I don't see any benefit to indexing a leading intra-book excerpt, although if that same excerpt appeared in other books, then perhaps having it indexed separately in the current one might be interesting to someone. I personally would not bother and would not even take the time to note its appearance, but that's exercising my discretion as editor, not an ISFDB policy or standard.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 07:28, 26 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
::Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably index the abstracts/synopsises at the end but skip the excerpt at the start.  Cheers /[[User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 14:20, 28 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Millar ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?187565; I thought it was odd that Margaret Millar, famous old writer of stodgy mysteries, wrote a disco-themed short story, "Radiant Flower of The Divine Heavens", several years after she died; I've discovered that the real author is MARTIN Millar, who has an extensive ISFDB record including 1 short story, also in a music-themed anthology. There are only a few mentions of Martin Millar as the real author online, and none of those sites are in English, although Worldcat got it right. There's also this weird interview from ANGELFIRE, https://www.angelfire.com/mn/electriclight/arcmartin.html, where Martin Millar is interviewed by someone named Radiant Flower - coincidence? I wonder how Margaret got mixed up in all this. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:54, 26 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Kristen Stewart Poem?!? ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2834848; Dark Offspring, which is a rare anthology of horror tales by the kids of famous people, had no contents until I entered them from a copy on Archive.org months ago; today I accidentally came across a story title from the book and the author's name seemed familiar. I checked online and saw she has the same name as the female star of TWILIGHT! The actress was born in early 1990 and this late 2002 book says she's 14, which isn't exactly right but it's close enough. I can't find anywhere online verifying this and she apparently doesn't use social media so I can't ask her. I leave this here in case anyone can find any verification that they're one and the same person. Certainly the poem, which is on p. 30 here, https://archive.org/details/darkoffspring00newy, is mopey enough to be by the star of Twilight. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:08, 26 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Sax Case ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?841329; Editor wrote note about "Chord of G" only being in Doubleday which is wrong because it's also in Pyramid; thing is the original 1913 story was retitled as "Case of the Chord in G" for the book, but editor entered full title for Doubleday while editor for Pyramid entered original title with a note saying all stories have "Case of" before them. No editions are PV'd, so the question is whether Doubleday should use original title with note or if Pyramid should use full title and delete note. --[[User:Username|Username]] 16:11, 27 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:I've moved and modified the note. It's now on the two publications that have the story rather than on the title. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:12, 3 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Schachnovelle / Chess ==
 
−
 
 
−
I've felt it necessary to add a note to the entry for Stefan Zweig's [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2655684 Schachnovelle] ('Chess') in disagreement with John Clute's reading of it at the SFE, where [https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/zweig_stefan a paragraph in Zweig's entry] is taken up discussing this novella under the misconception that the world Chess champion is a "Robot". The actual text makes it explicit he is entirely human, thereby removing any SFnal context. Zweig is clearly "below the threshold" although this title does appear in a magazine and an anthology that we have, so it probably should not warrant removal. I would like to categorise 'Schachnovelle' and its translations as "non-genre", but first want to seek out other editors' opinions. Cheers. [[User:PeteYoung|PeteYoung]] 06:58, 28 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:As it's been a week and seemingly no objections, I'll go ahead and mark it non-genre. [[User:PeteYoung|PeteYoung]] 04:39, 6 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::Absolutely right, there doesn't seem anywhere near enough speculative content. I still don't understand why SFE reads a robot chess champion into it, and why a Romanian sf magazine published it. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 13:05, 6 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::: I wonder what word may had been mistyped/misread as robot to cause the confusion. I concur though - that is not genre - there are psychological elements that may make it horror technically if one wants to consider it so but not our type of horror. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:26, 6 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:::: The SFE team has been notified and will be updating the article shortly. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:37, 7 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:::::Thanks, I was just about to fire off a quick email to Dave L. this morning but you've saved me the job! [[User:PeteYoung|PeteYoung]] 08:38, 8 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Ramsey Campbell Title ==
 
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−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?13370; Campbell published this in GB as Claw under the pseudonym Jay Ramsay; when it came to America he used his real name and it was retitled Night of the Claw. 90's GB reprints titled it The Claw. I remember some discussion about this months ago, and today I randomly came across it and realized the original GB HC didn't have a cover; only place I could find it was on some site called The Devil's Library, and I couldn't even save the cover image from Chrome because it gave me a security warning, so I had to open INTERNET EXPLORER because their security sucks and you can download anything. Now that all ISFDB editions are covered, someone needs to decide why the overall title is still The Claw when it should really be Claw. A mod left a sarcastic note to PV of GB PB but I just saw that they never responded, so I suggest that anyone who owns copies of 1983 PB or HC check their title pages to make sure they just say Claw so the title can be changed here and this issue can be laid to rest. --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:33, 28 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Longest Titles ==
 
−
 
 
−
I have a friend who would like to know what's the longest title for a published short story in the genre. Seems like something the iSFdb could answer easily, but I don't see how to do that from the front end.  [[User:Gengelcox|Gengelcox]] 13:27, 30 November 2021 (EST)
 
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−
: A quick database query finds [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1063018 On the Irritating Tendency of the Tau Cetians to Indulge in Ever More Verbose Titles for Their Cross-Dimensional, Cross-Species Romances, Inevitably Entailing the Listing of at Least a Dozen Characters with Unpronounceable Names (One of Whom Will Invariably be an E-Eridanian Whose Association with the Other Characters is as Improbable as it is Brief), Together with the Major and Minor Genders of Those Characters, Not to Mention the Names and Ages of Any of Their Offspring Still Attached in the Bud, as well as the Birth Planets and Dietary Preferences of the Characters (Particular Attention Being Given to the Bizarrely Gory Eating Habits of the Hyper-Carnivorous E-Eridanian - This being the Primary Reason for Including a Member of Such a Belligerent Species in the First Place), and Often Also Containing Unsavory and Detailed Descriptions of the Numerous Pungent Odors Produced in Moments of Single or Multiplexed Passion], a short story published in ''Tales of the Unanticipated #22'' (April 2001). [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 22:15, 30 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: Most excellent!  [[User:Gengelcox|Gengelcox]] 23:58, 30 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Lovecraft's Out for Blood ==
 
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−
https://picclick.co.uk/H-P-LOVECRAFT-out-for-blood-c-1984-274382960053.html; cover's on Amazon so I added it, then saw this link and decided to add it here; I'm not sure what this is, art book or non-fiction essays or what, but scant info here so someone may find this useful. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:46, 30 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Automatic convesion of currency symbols ==
 
−
 
 
−
As per an earlier discussion, the software has been modified to auto-convert "zl", "Kc" and "Kcs" to "zł", "Kč" and "Kčs" respectively. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 22:07, 30 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Down to Sleep ==
 
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−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?39344; This is complicated, but the cover (which I think I added some time ago) for the December Girl edition clearly says Goddess of the Bay at the top. Sandy DeLuca published books and other things under both publishers, and there's a 1999 Stoker nomination, so I figure the Goddess edition was published in 1999 (1998 date was fixed by me) and then a new December Girl edition came out in 2002. Whether there's a cover for 2002 which says December Girl on it or whether they just used the same cover I don't know, and apparently in 2004 there was 1 of those Delirium very limited editions which isn't on ISFDB at all. If anyone has a copy of any of these editions it would be good to know; another odd thing is that some of the stories are from 2000 on ISFDB, so I think maybe they were original and then reprinted in magazines, which means their dates should be 1999. Again, a print copy would help a lot to fix all this. This ancient interview from TRIPOD, http://bookchat_and_allthat.tripod.com/home/id12.html, verifies (on the bottom) that 1999 and Goddess of the Bay Publications belong to the original edition. --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:45, 1 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Vivisections ==
 
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−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?258806; I noticed the editor had a Twitter page so I tweeted him asking for contents' page #'s; he replied quickly but said he was sick, then after several days asked me for my e-mail address which I sent, then he liked it but didn't send an e-mail for several more days, then finally sent it yesterday but forgot to send the attachment with the contents page, and finally sent it with the attachment today. I always suspected this was never distributed and it turns out that was true because he said he had to discontinue it because the publisher didn't pay anyone. So now I believe ISFDB is the only site on the web that has the contents numbered and in their correct order. XOXO. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:42, 1 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:So the book was published briefly, but then removed from publication because the publisher didn't pay anyone? Or was it removed before it was actually published? Just making sure. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 18:03, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: It sounds like what happened to the last issue of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?20233 ''Satellite Science Fiction'']:
 
−
::* Some sources list a June, 1959 issue. It was never printed although a few galley proofs are said to survive.
 
−
::Depending on the specifics, even ARCs may be printed and distributed before the publisher pulls the plug. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:52, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::: I'm not sure (I assume, like a lot of these books that are ready to be published when a publisher goes out of business, review copies were sent out but the book never made it to retailers; see R. J. Horsely's 2006 comment here, https://www.amazon.com/Vivisections-William-P-Simmons/dp/9185075000; however, there's also a 2003 comment on that page from someone not in the book and nowhere to be found online as a reviewer, so how did he get the book?); that's all the info Simmons gave me, except for letting me know he's published 5 books recently and asking if I could add them, too. It took so long to get the Vivisections photo that I hesitate to contact him again; only reason he mentioned the non-payment stuff was because I mentioned how rare the book seems to be. There was supposed to be a Vivisections II, https://web.archive.org/web/20021219092439/http://www.catalystpress.net:80/vivisections2.htm, but that obviously never came to pass. I remember from visiting Catalyst's archived site some time ago that Catalyst's Monica (J.) O'Rourke, a well-known horror writer, and a woman who ran some other horror press combined into 1 press, but that didn't work out so well because they ended in 2003, and apparently O'Rourke just used Catalyst's site for a while after that as her own personal page until she got her own site. Looking at their horribly broken books page, https://web.archive.org/web/20030411223545/http://catalystpress.net:80/books.htm, I see there's a few books not on ISFDB that probably need entering, so silver lining and all that. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:59, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:::: Also, re: Satellite, are you aware of this, http://www.philsp.com/mags/satellite_science_fiction.html; June and July 1959 covers! --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:37, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::::: I didn't know about the July issue. The last time I looked into ''Satellite'' was during the 1990s. I believe I consulted volume 3 of Tuck's Encyclopedia (1982), which mentioned the June issue and stated that "only four copies now remain, of which two are in the U.S. Library of Congress". I see that Miller and Contento referenced the July issue [http://www.locusmag.com/index/chklst/mg0824.htm in 2002]:
 
−
:::::* Another issue dated July 1959 was in the works but had never been assembled. Part of its contents would have been as follows: "Try to Remember" by Frank Herbert, "Ship of Darkness" by A.E. van Vogt and two articles "Breaking the Ice Barrier" by Frank Belknap Long and "The Lore of H.P. Lovecraft" by Sam Moskowitz. Special thanks to Sam Moskowitz for this information.
 
−
::::: It's good to see their preliminary covers available online. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:13, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::::: Re: "there's also a 2003 comment on that page from someone not in the book and nowhere to be found online as a reviewer, so how did he get the book?", review copies are (or at least were) occasionally sold by second hand dealers in New York City, where many reviewers live and work. I remember running into them on a semi-regular basis when I frequented [https://www.strandbooks.com/ The Strand] a few decades ago. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:20, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:::::: Oh yes, the Strand. Back when I also frequented them a few decades ago, I picked up some great stuff (British Pan Books edition of Ramsey Campbell's New Terrors 1 in an outside bin for 48 CENTS, Horrorstory: Volume Four (a HC collecting Year's Best Horror Stories X, XI, and XII), several Playboy Press PB anthologies edited by Charles L. Grant, etc. Also saw original Land of Enchantment edition of Koontz's Twilight Eyes which was later greatly expanded for the PB, although the price was too much for me even back then); what was great was they marked the price way down on a lot of their books so poor folks like me could actually buy some. Then they got lazy and started just marking most books as 1/2 off, which in most cases was still way too much for me. Combine that with the MTA getting rid of those $4 unlimited ride cards where you could take the train as many times as you wanted in a 24-hour period, and that's why I haven't visited the Strand since the 2000's. Probably for the best, since most of Manhattan these days resembles something from a post-apocalyptic movie. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:58, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Forces Obscures ==
 
−
 
 
−
https://archive.org/details/forcesobscures180000unse; This 1999 French horror anthology isn't on ISFDB; it's a mix of reprints (some rare) and originals. I don't usually enter foreign-language books but I thought I'd mention this here because there's a lot of worthy stuff in here that some French-fluent person may want to enter. --[[User:Username|Username]] 13:42, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:I'll enter it. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:06, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:Okay, all entered: {{p|871002}}. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:58, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: That was fast. I found there's 1 Naturellement-published book on Fantlab, by J.P. Andrevon, and it wasn't on ISFDB so I took a shot at entering it. I think I got most of it right, but some bits may need a look. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:28, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::Do you have a link? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:02, 3 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:::: https://fantlab.ru/edition113680. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:37, 3 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::::I've updated the binding type to "hc" per the Fantlab entry having this: Тип обложки: твёрдая. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:40, 3 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:::::: But the Goodreads entry has this, "Format 128 pages, Paperback", and the other book on ISFDB in the 2000.com series is also a TP. --[[User:Username|Username]] 17:29, 3 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Story Id Request : Robotic Police ==
 
−
I'm looking for a short story, probably Analog, about a future where robotic police arrest all criminals to the point that there is nobody left who isn't incarcerated. <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Porkov|Porkov]] ([[User talk:Porkov|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Porkov|contribs]]) .</small>
 
−
 
 
−
: Hi, and welcome! Do you have any idea of the period of time this story might have been published, or any thing else about the author? For me, this rings no bell, but it might for somebody else. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 08:32, 3 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::Not quite the same, but that sounds a little bit like Bradbury's [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?56011 The Pedestrian]. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 09:51, 3 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Raincoats in August ==
 
−
 
 
−
https://web.archive.org/web/20071023131646/http://www.hd-image.com/fiction/raincoats_in_august.htm; Here's something interesting; there was a zine, Aberrant Dreams, that published 9 issues in the 2000's according to ISFDB; however, an issue that was PV'd by someone here got 1 of the titles wrong. I'm still waiting to fix that, but I went back to the archived Aberrant Dreams site because the last issue included 2 old reprints by Victor Hugo and George Sterling. The Sterling's OK, but the Hugo was entered as a new story because I guess it was never translated into English until this magazine did it (which I find hard to believe, but whatever). I added a note with the original French date, then figured since a lot of the archived stories seem to be available I'd at least add the 2 old ones. However, Sterling's story only had 1 archived page and there was nothing on it; I was going to try for Hugo next, but stumbled on this, https://web.archive.org/web/20080724224200/http://www.hd-image.com/previous_pubs.htm. Whatever this is, it's not on ISFDB, as the first story title got no hits. The 2nd didn't either, but in my usual way I searched for the author's name and got this, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2344921. Even a dope like me knows Agosto means August, so I added the link to the record. Searching for the author and the English story title together online got 0 hits, so I may have found some rarities here, both that English translation and the anthology that may or may not have been published. Anyone know more about any of this? EDIT: found this, "This originally in the January 2007 issue of Aberrant Dreams", here, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2480326. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:06, 3 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== New cleanup report to find awards linked to CHAPBOOKs  ==
 
−
 
 
−
A new cleanup report has been deployed. It looks for award records linked to CHAPBOOK titles. Most of them will probably need to be re-linked to the respective SHORTFICTION or POEM titles, but moderators can ignore records. The data will become available around 1:30am server time. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:33, 3 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
: Thanks! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:41, 3 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== ISFDB and Open Library ==
 
−
 
 
−
Did some edits for Carl Jacobi books and saw on this page, https://openlibrary.org/books/OL5305368M/Disclosures_in_Scarlet, this website as an ID on the bottom. Didn't see it listed for any other Jacobi book I looked at, so what's the deal? How do certain books have it and others don't? Is it a volunteer site like this one where people can enter the info they wish to? --[[User:Username|Username]] 00:04, 4 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: According to [https://openlibrary.org/about/people The Open Library Team] page:
 
−
:* Open Library is made possibly [sic] because of a dedicated team of staff and over 100 volunteers from around the globe.
 
−
: The distinction between "staff" and "volunteers" seems to suggest that some contributors are paid employees and some are unpaid volunteers. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 09:26, 4 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: Interesting. I was thinking if all books on Open Library that are also on ISFDB had ISFDB ID links it would greatly increase traffic to this site, but I'm sure there's some reason why it's not so. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:45, 4 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::: I am not sure how active Open Library is these days. BTW, I recently discovered that the SF subset of "libgen.li", one of the incarnations of the previously mentioned LibGen family of projects, uses our metadata and links to our Publication/Author pages. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:46, 4 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?7898 Enemies of the System] by Aldiss ==
 
−
 
 
−
I'd like to convert this to novella: it is one according to its length (and according to SFE3). I'll wait for a few days before acting, though. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 01:23, 4 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
: It most likely is a novella but let’s not rely just on number of pages (unless you have a source for the word count?), especially for older titles with a lot of verifiers who can do a rough count. There are PVs on a lot of these books, some of them very active. If you already did that, please post the link to the thread where the count always discussed, preferably in an English edition because translations can be a bit problematic if there were abridgments or a format had to be followed.  :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 21:53, 4 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: Well, I'm a PV - of the German translation (which tends to have more words than an English parent). [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 00:37, 5 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::: Except when it is abridged and we both know that this is not always disclosed. :) Let’s check the original - just in case - especially because we have quite a lot of Active PVs. You will need to notify them anyway so might as well get someone who can get to the book to do a rough count. Dot the I’s, cross the t’s and all that. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 00:54, 5 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::::My calculation of the word count in the [https://archive.org/details/enemiesofsystema00aldi/page/n7/mode/2up 1978 Harper & Row edition] follows:
 
−
::::* The text begins on page 9 and concludes on page 119, yielding 89 full pages and 22 partial pages (First and last page of the 11 chapters). There are 36 lines per page.
 
−
::::* the 22 partial pages total 455 lines / 36 lines per page  = approx 12.5 pages
 
−
::::* 89 full pages + 12.5 pages = 101.5 equivalent pages.
 
−
::::* I counted 9, randomly selected, full pages. Result - 318 average words per page. 101.5 x 318 = 32,118 total words. Hope this helps, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 11:13, 5 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::::: Thanks for counting! Novella it is indeed. I’d usually count multiple pages only if it is really close to 40K - with the 102 pages or so, you need almost 400 words per page so if a sample full page with almost no dialog is way down, it’s clear where we are.  :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:34, 5 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:::::: Yes, good work, John! I'll begin right away with the task (and hope I'll run through it today). Thanks to you all, Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 12:05, 5 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::::::: Leave me a note if you run out of time - I’ll lend you a hand so we don’t end up with this title on 20 reports tonight while in mid conversion. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:54, 5 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== The Ghost Book ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?288782; I added the page # today from eBay, but unlike the Hutchinson eds. the Scribner ed. doesn't separate the 2 Onions stories on the contents page, so anyone with a copy or who knows where a full copy can be checked? --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:42, 4 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Italian Horror Story ==
 
−
 
 
−
https://web.archive.org/web/19990505052300/http://vampyres-only.com/electext/misc/buio_eng.html; This very old vampire-related site has some fiction ( not all of it working), and this one is interesting because like the Aberrant Dreams translation I found recently this seems to be another 1 that doesn't exist according to the modern web. It's a translation of this, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1425717. Obviously the date is much earlier than what ISFDB says, so any Italians who are familiar with the 1995 anthology(?) the archived page says it came from may want to change the date if it's accurate. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:22, 5 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
: We have a lot of missing first publications (and because of that incorrect dates). We don't have active Italian editors these days unfortunately but that one is easy: [https://www.fantascienza.com/catalogo/volumi/NILF107676/fantasia-vii-volume/ here it is]. I'll add it. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:11, 5 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?871382 Done].[[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:25, 5 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Ernest Newman ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?131768; the essay doesn't belong with the other stuff, but this, https://fanac.org/fanzines/Vector/Vector999.pdf; calls it a spoof "written under transparently false names". How best to separate this Newman from the older one? No worries about asking Vector's PV's first, because 1 is not active and the other, C1, has a board full of messages that make me look like an agreeable team player. --[[User:Username|Username]] 07:36, 6 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Site downtime -- 2021-12-06 between noon and 12:30pm server time ==
 
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−
The whole site will be down for maintenance today, 2021-12-06, between noon and 12:30pm server time. This includes the ISFDB Wiki. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 11:12, 6 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: We are back up. If you come across any issues, please post your findings here. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:32, 6 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Penny Dreadful ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?347591; I added cover to this, started to look at the other issues, there's so much unknown or wrong I didn't even bother, but after this 1 was approved I noticed format is PB, which I doubt, and there's a cover art credit for an issue with no art on the cover. Buburuz is credited on the cover but that's for interior art. So if anyone owns this issue they can change format and remove cover artist, if necessary. --[[User:Username|Username]] 23:55, 6 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Grand Comics Database ==
 
−
This post is prompted by a discussion in Rules and Standards concerning graphic novels. The [https://www.comics.org Grand Comics Database] is the equivalent of the ISFDB for comic books. At the very least it can be used to link authors/artists as I have done here: http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?1864. There might be other possibilities for title level links.--[[User:Swfritter|swfritter]] 17:30, 7 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: Added to [[Sources of Bibliographic Information]], thanks. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 11:53, 8 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Another source for scanned pulp and digest magazines ==
 
−
Many of the pubs are not at the internet archive. The pubs are in compressed archive files.  https://pulpandoldmagazines.wordpress.com/ --[[User:Swfritter|swfritter]] 17:46, 7 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: Thanks, I have added it to [[Sources of Bibliographic Information]]. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 11:45, 8 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== John Gregory ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?START=0&TYPE=Title&USE_1=author_canonical&O_1=exact&TERM_1=John%20Gregory&ORDERBY=title_title&C=AND; cheap 70's SF novel pseudonym and old horror story pseudonym got mixed together. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:50, 7 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Robert Morgan ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?110054; English poet mixed up with pseudonym for American C.J. Henderson. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:35, 7 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: It turns out that it's a fairly well-known SF poem by the US poet [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?336752 Robert Morgan] (b. 1944). I had never heard of it, but apparently it's taught in some middle schools. Live and learn... [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:20, 8 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?START=0&TYPE=Title&USE_1=author_canonical&O_1=exact&TERM_1=Robert%20Morgan&ORDERBY=title_title&C=AND; I'm thinking those 2 essays published in a British mag probably belong with Robert Morgan (I) who edited a British anthology, although there's a huge gap between the dates. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:46, 8 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::: It's possible, but then again, Henderson was probably better known as "Robert Morgan" in the late 1990s: he had 6 novels published as "Morgan" and only 2 as by "Henderson". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:37, 9 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Scribe Award? ==
 
−
 
 
−
The [https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/scribe_award Scribe Award] is an annual award given by the International Association of Media Tie-In Writers for media tie-ins. It covers all genres, with adult SF works usually getting a category of their own. The "YA/middle-grade" category also includes a lot of SF works.
 
−
 
 
−
[https://iamtw.org/the-scribe-awards/previous-scribe-award-winners/ Their online list of nominees and winners] is comprehensive and I am thinking that we should add this award type to our menagerie.
 
−
 
 
−
The "Faust Award for lifetime achievement" is presented by the same organization as part of the same process, so I am thinking that we could add it as another award category under the same award type, which is how we handle SFWA's "Grand Master Award". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:42, 8 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:Sounds good to me. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:53, 8 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: I have created a [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/awardtype.cgi?97 new award type] and entered all Faust Award recipients. I have also created award category records for all known speculative categories. Looking for volunteers to enter [https://iamtw.org/the-scribe-awards/previous-scribe-award-winners/ other nominees and winners]. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:13, 11 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Stoker Award ==
 
−
 
 
−
The [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/awardtype.cgi?40 Stoker Award] shouldn't have a Grandmaster category as they don't give a Grandmaster Award (they have a Lifetime Achievement award instead). The Stokers are given by the Horror Writers Association. The horror grandmaster award was given by the World Horror Convention, which stopped happening after 2016. So, we need to remove [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_category.cgi?644+0 the category] from the Stoker, and then create the World Horror Convention Grand Master Award.
 
−
 
 
−
Here are the details for that:
 
−
 
 
−
*'''Short Name:''' WHC Grand Master
 
−
*'''Full Name:''' World Horror Convention Grand Master Award
 
−
*'''Awarded For:''' Significant contributions to the field of horror literature
 
−
*'''Awarded By:''' World Horror Convention committee
 
−
*'''Poll:''' No
 
−
*'''Covers more than just SF:''' No
 
−
*'''Webpages:''' Wikipedia-EN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Horror_Convention_Grand_Master_Award)
 
−
*'''Note:''' Nominees were submitted and the WHC committee selected the recipient from among those nominated. The award was given out from 1991-2016.
 
−
 
 
−
There are no categories for the award, and only one person received it each year, though it was not given out every year. I'll be happy to fill in the recipients once the award is created. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:50, 8 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/awardtype.cgi?95 Done.] [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:46, 9 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::And all entered. Thanks! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:08, 9 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::: Excellent! :) [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:39, 9 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Lord Ruthven Award ==
 
−
 
 
−
Here's another one we should add:
 
−
 
 
−
*'''Short Name:''' Ruthven
 
−
*'''Full Name:''' Lord Ruthven Award
 
−
*'''Awarded For:''' Significant contributions to the field of horror literature
 
−
*'''Awarded By:''' Lord Ruthven Assembly
 
−
*'''Poll:''' not sure
 
−
*'''Covers more than just SF:''' No
 
−
*'''Webpages:''' Wikipedia-EN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Ruthven_Award), SFADB (http://www.sfadb.com/Lord_Ruthven_Awards_Winners_By_Year)
 
−
*'''Note:''' Given out since 1989
 
−
 
 
−
The following categories currently exist:
 
−
*'''Fiction''': Best fiction on vampires
 
−
*'''Non-fiction''': Best academic work on the study of the vampire figure in culture and literature
 
−
*'''Media/Popular Culture'''
 
−
*'''Special Award'''
 
−
 
 
−
I'll be happy to add them once it's created. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:11, 8 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: If there are no objections, I will create this award type in a couple of days. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:47, 9 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/awardtype.cgi?96 Done]. I have also created a category for "Special Citation", which may (or may not) be separate from the "Special Award" category. [http://www.sfadb.com/Lord_Ruthven_Awards_Winners_By_Category The relevant SFADB Web page], which lists all Ruthven awards by category, has 2 "Special Award" sections and another section for "Special Citation". Wikipedia has only one "Special" category, but it links to [http://file770.com/2018-lord-ruthven-awards/ this File770 announcement], which calls the 2018 category "Special Recognition".
 
−
 
 
−
:: Also, please note that "Powers of Darkness: The Lost Translation of Dracula" is not exactly a translation. To quote [https://www.worldcat.org/title/powers-of-darkness-the-lost-version-of-dracula/oclc/971019732 the English publisher of the book], the Icelandic publisher, writer and translator Valdimar "Ásmundsson hadn't merely translated Dracula but had penned an entirely new version of the story, with all new characters and a totally re-worked plot." The 2018 Special Recognition award was apparently given to both the 1901 text and "the scholarship added by [https://lithub.com/author/hans-corneel-de-roos/ Hans de Roos]". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:17, 11 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::All entered! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:52, 14 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:::: Thanks! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:34, 14 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Russell Edson ==
 
−
 
 
−
["Erasing Amyloo", "Oh My God, I'll Never Get Home", "Baby Pianos", "The Large Thing", "The Adventures of a Turtle", "The Wounded Breakfast", "Bringing a Dead Man Back into Life", "Ape", "Counting Sheep", "The Reason Why the Closet Man is Never Sad"]; I saw Edson had a short story, Prose Poems, and knew that was fishy so I checked and turns out he had 10 poems in this anthology, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?338085. I deleted Prose Poems and found, in an Amazon reader comment, the titles listed above. Only 1 of them is on ISFDB, but many other titles were published in Edson's poetry collections (only 1 collection is on ISFDB), while a few titles don't seem to be from any of his collections. I imported the 1 poem, but if anyone owns a copy of that anthology it might have a publication history for the rest of the poems; Edson was still alive when it was published, so it's possible he wrote a few originals in addition to the reprints. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:29, 9 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Herbert ? Bernstein ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?12478; http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?336818; Muddling Through was by Herbert Bernstein on ISFDB so I added the J. from the cover; those 2 Analog stories by Herbert Jacob are mentioned here as by Herbert J., https://www3.cs.stonybrook.edu/~cse103/Fall_01/README.yaya.html, but it doesn't mention Muddling Through. If anyone can verify they're all by the same guy, is the correct procedure to make an alternate name (and which one should be the alternate?) or to make the 2 stories variants? --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:31, 10 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== The Room in the Tower ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2316407; The 2nd book is 420 pages; it's probably a reprint of the collection, not a chapbook containing just the 1 story. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:58, 10 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
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== Sea Mist ==
 
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[https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2412/3425/products/8DE1D69A-C279-4FEC-B467-A6A5BF263B25_1296x.jpeg]; "Dives" and "Lazarus" actually "Dives and Lazarus", I fixed that, but page # clearly wrong; anyone own a copy, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?267428, to verify #'s? --[[User:Username|Username]] 23:15, 10 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Everything Old Is New Again ==
 
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−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?869953; I added cover artist to this recent book, but noticed that while some stories were imported properly, all the fiction is old. The first M.R. James story, the 2 Bosanquet poems, the R.H. Benson, the J.K. Stephens (actually by J.K. Stephen), the Tatham (actually by H.F.W. Tatham), and the Stone are all reprints, I think. Several people have made edits here, so I'm sure someone must have noticed all this, but just in case no one did I'm mentioning it. Swan River books are very limited editions which are tough to verify from online info, so an actual print copy is probably necessary. --[[User:Username|Username]] 00:18, 11 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Or Subtitles ==
 
−
 
 
−
What is our standard for subtitles with "or":
 
−
#Title; or, Subtitle
 
−
#Title, or, Subtitle
 
−
We have plenty of both. I thought this was documented somewhere, but not seeing it on [[:Template:TitleFields:Title]] and searching has not been effective as too generic a term. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 09:57, 12 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:There was a [[Rules and standards discussions/Archive/Archive16#Alternate (as opposed to sub) titles.|previous discussion]] which unfortunately didn't result in a consensus.  When I enter such a title, I normalize it to the first form you mention (<title>; or, <alternate title>) which is how I most frequently see them reflected when not separated by new lines on a title page.  I admit that my perception of what is most common is purely anecdotal.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 12:24, 12 December 2021 (EST)
 
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−
:: I think the underlying problem is that different bibliographic and writing style manuals use different standards. In some cases they even endorse multiple standards, e.g. the Chicago Manual of Style (8.1.65) says "a semicolon between title and subtitle may '''usually''' be changed to a colon" [emphasis added].
 
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−
:: Since many of our records -- especially for older books when long subtitles were more common -- originally came from secondary sources, we effectively inherited a mishmash of styles. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:18, 12 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Basil Faulty ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?83283; I found out AC Benson's "Basil Netherby" had an alternate title, "The House At Treheale", and made it a variant. Approvals have been scarce lately, and now that this has been approved and I'm looking at it again I realize I'm not sure if the date is right; from what I can gather it was read to audiences for Christmas, 1903 under the alternate and was changed when published in the collection, but Haining in one of his usual shady moves published it under the alternate in one of his final anthologies in order to make it look like a lost story. So should the date of "...Treheale" be 1903 (probably not), date collection was published, or date of anthology? --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:51, 12 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Haining Excerpt ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?285967; The Garfield is an excerpt, not the full novel. --[[User:Username|Username]] 09:05, 13 December 2021 (EST)
 
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−
:Well, at this length it ain't a novel in the first place. I'll deal with the title. Thanks for finding this! [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 09:20, 13 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: A new issue has come up; http://www.locusmag.com/index/t733.htm#A36657. Peter Haining, in his usual confusing way, used chapter headings or whatever for each story, and for some reason used Garfield's 1972 title The Ghost Downstairs but the actual story in the book seems to be "The Constable's Tale" from 1993; this story isn't on ISFDB, having been published in a newspaper, and there seems to be almost no mention of it online. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:04, 13 December 2021 (EST)
 
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−
::: It seems possible that "The Constable's Tale" ''is'' an excerpt from "The Ghost Downstairs", and was just titled that way by the newspaper. I guess a primary verifier is what we'd need. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 10:01, 15 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Zilpha ==
 
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−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?616260; Artist didn't write a short story in this book as far as I can tell, and there's no mention they did the cover, just illustrations, so a deletion or two might be needed. I added the OL link to the record. EDIT: I changed short story to interior art but left the cover credit since it may very well be done by the same artist, even if not credited. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:32, 14 December 2021 (EST)
 
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−
:Thanks! Upon entering there was obviously no change to the actual title type for the interior art; the style of the cover art fits the other works by the artist, though. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 02:20, 15 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== "Adult" Novel Stuff ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1875171; So after doing a ton of edits for awful "adult" books some time ago, recently someone entered a bunch of them and I've been doing more edits. I thought I was done for now, but randomly noticed that the 2 covers at the link above are really the same, except the later edition gave her a more mod hairstyle and shortened her skirt, and yet 2 different artists are credited. Maybe that's so, maybe not, but more interesting is while checking covers by both artists I came across a book I vaguely remember working on months ago (hard to forget a cover with a DOG WITH A HUMAN HEAD), A Labor of Lust, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?809743, and the blurb about "Doctor Proctor" on the cover rang a bell; I think this is the book mentioned here, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?809737. I've never found any trace of a cover for Doctor Proctor, so I think it's possible either it was never published or maybe it's titled Doctor Proctor inside A Labor of Lust, since these porn books didn't exactly have much quality control and often changed things from 1 part of the book to another; or is it possible it's a sequel?. So maybe someone will chime in here with more info. There's another book by DuBreuil, The Hat, which is also missing, but that title's a little more vague. EDIT: http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?521715; Editor wrote a note about different editions, but they entered ID with the wrong cover. Right cover I added from Bookscans, but then saw this, https://openlibrary.org/search?q=%22sin+on+wheels%22&mode=everything. First photo is the same as editor added, but second seems to be by Greenleaf, judging from the Nightstand info on the bottom, and apparently they were still releasing it years later because there's a retitled edition, The Instructor, with the same art but now by Reed Nightstand. So just when you think you've found them all, more crawl out of the woodwork. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:48, 14 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== 1971/1972 French/English Verne Book ==
 
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https://fantlab.ru/edition153290; Lots of discussion lately about Jules Verne on this board, so I'll mention this, which is not on ISFDB, although the author is, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?166791, including a French essay about Verne. Lots of nice illustrations and a Verne photo. --[[User:Username|Username]] 13:09, 15 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Ushers ==
 
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https://richarddalbyslibrary.com/search?type=product&q=gray+usher; So months ago I found mention on Vault of Evil that Shaun & Gray Usher's 1975 collection The Graveyard Companion was partially reprinted as Festival of Fiends the next year by the same publisher; they dropped a few stories and added several new ones. The 1975 collection was published in America in 1980, but today I randomly came across my note again and noticed the American edition was much longer than the British. Richard Dalby's site has all 3 books, and it turns out info on ISFDB is badly messed up. Many stories entered for the British aren't in the book, and many in the book aren't entered here. Photos of contents pages on Dalby's site are bad and don't show page #'s, and unlike the American they don't say who wrote which story on the contents page, so I can't really enter the missing stories because I don't know who wrote what. Also, the American's info was entered from an Archive.org copy, but 2 of the titles were wrong and so was the price, so I fixed them. Festival of Fiends also has stories in it not in the original Graveyard Companion but also not in the longer American edition, either. So it's a mess. I've deleted the wrong titles from the original; anyone here with copies of either original Graveyard Companion or Festival of Fiends can help greatly with solving all of this. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:47, 15 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Lucifer ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?107485; I worked on this a long time ago, adding that awesome cover. I cleaned it up a bit today, deleting part of the FantLab URL and adding their link, then read that the cover is an alternate, with there also being a standard cover with a little picture on the front. I don't know who did that one or whether that would count as a separate edition to be entered here, but what's more important is the alternate cover wasn't done for this book but is actually an old painting, which was also used on 1 of the recently deceased Anne Rice's books. So, as usual, I mention a possible variant situation in case anyone decides it's necessary. --[[User:Username|Username]] 08:59, 17 December 2021 (EST)
 
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−
== Brennan Non-Fiction ==
 
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−
Herbie Brennan wrote a lot of books; 1 of them, The Young Ghosthunter's Guide, was a novel on ISFDB but copy on Archive.org revealed it's non-fiction; I fixed that and the title because the apostrophe was in the wrong place, but looking at his other books this one, https://openlibrary.org/books/OL25954113M/The_Codebreakers_Handbook, was also a novel on ISFDB but again the Archive.org copy revealed it's non-fiction, which I also fixed; however, the cover added here many years ago, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?242369, doesn't match the one on OL, and the cover on OL doesn't match the cover on the book itself. The price is in pounds on the back cover, unlike the American price entered here, but the ISBN is the same. So if anyone's interested, although it probably isn't a book that belongs here and is just included because of the author's genre status. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:58, 17 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Warm As Snow ==
 
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−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=warm+as+s&type=Fiction+Titles; probably a variant situation needed. These guys published so much under so many different name combos it's crazy. --[[User:Username|Username]] 00:57, 18 December 2021 (EST)
 
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−
:Thanks for finding this! I have dealt with it. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 09:13, 19 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Rabou ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1764301; http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1027577; Seems publisher's website was right, and the story "Tobias Guarnerius" was actually by Charles Rabou. EDIT: see here: http://tartaruspress.com/f2.htm. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:20, 18 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Possible Non-Genre Wilkie Collins ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?852423; Title translates as moonstone, so is a translation of Collins' famous novel, but since no other edition is on ISFDB, is it really genre and does it belong here? --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:37, 18 December 2021 (EST)
 
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−
:Yep, this does look like not belonging here. I tend towards deleting the entry. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 08:57, 19 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::Agreed. It's a detective novel, with no speculative (by our definition) features. However, it's very possible Collins would be considered "above the threshold" given the works he's done in the genre. If he is considered ABT, then we would include it and mark it as non-genre (and he has several things marked that way already, lending credence to the ABT classification). ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:21, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
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−
::: Ah, yes, I have varianted it to the English original title. Thanks for the input! Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 01:53, 21 December 2021 (EST)
 
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−
== PV approvals ==
 
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−
If a publication has multiple PVs and you have notified all of them, is it necessary to wait for positive responses from all of them before making changes or is it acceptable to go ahead after receiving one positive response? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 14:32, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:Depends. ;-) If they are active verifiers & the change is major, I would wait for all. If the change is minor or the verifiers are only semi-active, I would go ahead. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 18:22, 22 December 2021 (EST)
 
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−
== Grubb Collection ==
 
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−
https://www.abebooks.com/signed-first-edition/Siege-318-Thirteen-Mystical-Stories--SIGNED-/30365297812; Davis Grubb published a collection in 1978, The Siege of 318, which was from a small press non-genre publisher, unlike his other collections which were published by mainstream publishers and are all relatively easy to find. I remember trying to find a photo of the contents page some time ago with no luck, but tonight while looking for something else I found it hiding on an AbeBooks seller's page. However, photo #4 at the link above was photographed badly, being blindingly white and slanted. I think I got them all entered correctly, but if anyone here actually owns a copy they may want to double-check; it's also possible stories don't start on the same page as what it says on the contents page, which is a common thing with these small press publishers. EDIT: Well, something weird happened; I added the cover to this book back in March using FantLab according to the edit history; I just checked FantLab again and they have new photos, including the CONTENTS PAGE, photographed perfectly. Turns out I entered all the #'s correctly from that awful AbeBooks photo, so that's taken care of. Still, anyone who owns a copy can still check if they wish to make sure contents' #'s match actual story #'s. --[[User:Username|Username]] 01:17, 21 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Appal(l)ing ==
 
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−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1511177; It's "The Appalling Gift" in original mag and in Dover's Level collection also edited by Joshi, https://books.google.com/books?id=-G7bCwAAQBAJ, but judging by the notes for the Centipede editions they were shoddily proofread, so it's possible it was really misspelled; if anyone owns those they may want to check and fix if needed. --[[User:Username|Username]] 23:18, 21 December 2021 (EST)
 
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−
== Existing PV notifications - Clarification requested ==
 
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−
Since I'm mostly going through my own collection and doing a PV after checking each book, I almost constantly need to inform existing PVs of changes to notes or adding LCCN ids. That's taking a lot of time. Since there is a "My Changed Primary Verifications" display readily available to each user and since I'm going to PV, is it unacceptable to simply make the notes changes/additions and add appropriate info in the "Note to Moderator" field? That way I'm both not cluttering up each user's Talk page and getting through my collection faster. Obviously, this doesn't apply to major changes where pre-approval from active users is expected. BTW, is there a consensus as to when a user is considered inactive? Thanks! [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 08:32, 23 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:Yes, if you are making additions & not changing data, then you can rely on the changed pubs functionality vs. having to post on user's talk pages. If you are changing data (unless it's like a simple typo in the notes), then you should discuss it. The reason is two fold: 1) when there is a difference of opinion on how to represent something, it is best to work it out via discussion; and 2) sometimes it turns out there are actually separate editions / printings. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 09:11, 23 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:: External IDs are usually safe to add so unless the data in them differs from what is already in the record, I usually won't notify the PVs when I add them (the moderator note is enough). If there are differences (in dates or publisher), I'll make sure they actually belong to that edition and not somewhere else (and the differences need to be added to the notes). Fixing typos in notes, fixing formatting in formatted fields (outside of Notes/Summary) and other things like that (cleanup activities basically) also are fine with just moderator notes. Anything bigger - I will post on the PVs page. 
 
−
:: As for what is inactive - I'd consider anyone that had been here in the last year active enough to require a notification... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:51, 23 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Millhiser's Mirror ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?567801; The Book Club Edition is on Archive.org, I added OL link, page count completely different than PV's (383 vs. 336), PV wrote long note about how page count differs greatly from original edition, there's another copy on Archive.org with no dustjacket that's also 383 pages, could be another BCE copy, so someone with original edition should check; I believe both editions are the same # and whoever entered # here for original just copied wrong # of 414 pages from some other site. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:39, 25 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Burks Collection ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?989214; https://richarddalbyslibrary.com/products/arthur-j-burks-look-behind-you-1954-first-edition; Dalby's site has an extensive bunch of photos from Burks' rare collection, but title story has no exclamation point on the contents page, unlike ISFDB. Also, title story is apparently long enough to be divided into 4 chapters, all mentioned on the contents page, but none of the chapter titles are mentioned anywhere online as far as I've found. So on the off chance someone owns this, they may want to verify story titles and those chapter titles, which then could be mentioned in the Notes field for this book. --[[User:Username|Username]] 16:02, 26 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Hagberg ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?19680; There's a signature on the Belmont edition of Croc, couldn't find out who it belongs to, but while searching I found out the author died a couple of years ago so I entered that in an edit. However, ISFDB has a separate page for David Hagberg with lots of entries, so now that he's dead someone may want to connect all the dots and merge. EDIT: I checked the Hagberg page, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?5768, again and saw someone already entered his death date there, so I cancelled my edit. However, the David James page is troublesome, because Hagberg was American but the first short story on David James' page is from a British SF mag, and the first 2 art credits are from the same mag. The last short story is also from a British SF mag, while the last art credit is American and so is the poem. So there might be a British David James in the 70's, the American who wrote Croc and the middle 3 short stories, either the same British guy or another one with the same name who published a single story 20 years after the other one, an American guy who did some interior art for a 2001 Planet of the Apes novelization, and another American guy who wrote a poem for an obscure horror mag. Good luck. --[[User:Username|Username]] 01:02, 27 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:I broke out the short story and poem authors based on [http://www.philsp.com/homeville/SFI/n00480.htm#A142 The Science Fiction, Fantasy, & Weird Fiction Magazine Index]. They do not appear to be the same as the novelist. I also broke out the artist as a separate record. It's not clear they are all by the same artist given it is 1975 and 2001 so added note to artist page. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:19, 28 December 2021 (EST)
 
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−
Cool, although I'm going to add a (III) to the author of "Time & Again" because it was published in the same British SF mag as the first 2 pieces of art by (III). --[[User:Username|Username]] 09:29, 28 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Cover art based on multi-page interior art entry ==
 
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I have [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5178161 a submission] which have been stuck in review for a long time, likely because it's not super clear how to deal with it. In short [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2960823 this cover art] is based on one of the pages in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2910423 this interior art] entry. Having thought about it a bit more (and found a digital copy of the publication) my suggestion is that the interior art entry be replaced by entries for each of the 10 individual pages and that the cover then variants the correct one of these. Since the pther submission is stuck I however don't want to start such a project without firat checking here. /[[User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 07:57, 28 December 2021 (EST)
 
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:Yes, your proposed solution is the best. Add the individual artworks to Heavy Metal and then variant to the specific one. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:00, 28 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::Thanks. A submission to that effect is now in. /[[User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 08:09, 28 December 2021 (EST)
 
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:::Approved. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:21, 28 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Breton language added ==
 
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The Breton language has been added to the list of supported languages. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:02, 28 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Albert Einstein painting ==
 
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Can anyone make out this signature? https://cloud10.todocoleccion.online/carteles/tc/2016/05/16/18/56876556.webp --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 21:49, 28 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:Looks like "RT Handville" to me. We have [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?324910 Robert T. Handville] in the database. That's the only one we have in the database, though. Based on [https://www.ebay.com/itm/R-T-ROBERT-TOMPKINS-HANDVILLE-Original-ART-PAINTING-ILLUSTRATION-60S-B-BALL-/324328589096 this work], the signatures look the same. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:03, 29 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::Thank you!--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 13:05, 29 December 2021 (EST)
 
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==Words Without Borders==
 
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:''Moved to [[ISFDB:Moderator_noticeboard#Words_Without_Borders|Moderator noticeboard]]''  /[[User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 06:48, 1 January 2022 (EST)
 
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== Ram or Rani ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2940963; all other works by her are by Rani, not Ram, but the Utopia link shows while it's Ram at story head her bio is the correct Rani, so that's odd and probably needs looking at. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:57, 29 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== A Winner Is You ==
 
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VICTORY! One of the very first things I did after joining ISFDB last December was mentioning the fact that a story I had read a few years earlier on Archive.org in a 1948 issue of the Saturday Evening Post, titled "Day of Vengeance" by Noel Langley, was reprinted in Langley's rare 1950 collection Tales of Mystery and Revenge as "The Bone Bead Necklace". In my earliest days here I thought the procedure was to find info and for mods to enter it, but was greeted rudely by a mod who shall remain nameless telling me my recollection of the story wasn't enough. Over the past year I've mentioned a few times how it still bothered me that I couldn't verify it because the Post issues were taken down, the Post website requires signing up to read their issues, and Medley Macabre, which is the only genre anthology where the story was reprinted, is almost impossible to find in America. Well, a Christmas miracle happened today because while searching for something else entirely I found a copy of Medley Macabre on Archive.org that was added earlier this year, https://archive.org/details/medleymacabre0000neth, and reading the beginning of Langley's story revealed instantly that it was the same as the Post story with the different title. As far as I can tell there is no mention of this connection anywhere, so now there will be. I also found this, [http://www.michaelspornanimation.com/splog/wp-content/v/Fawcett8.jpg], which shows the headmaster in the story holding the BONE BEAD NECKLACE. Also, the Archive copy isn't from 1966 but 1972, with an ISBN and everything, so there's a new edition to enter, too. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:58, 29 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Chronister ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=chronister&type=Name; There was a Bantam reprint of a 1981 Celestial Arts publication where some editor mistakenly thought the cover art was the same, but using Archive.org's copy it was actually by Bob Chronister. Checking that unusual last name, there's 3 art credits by Bob and 3 by Robert (although when my edit is approved Bob will have 4). Dates are all in the same late 70's-early 80's period, so if anyone knows what the name is he usually went by when doing cover art the 2 names should be varianted. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:36, 30 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== New cleanup reports - Translations ==
 
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A new section, "Translations", has been added to the Cleanup Reports menu. At the moment, it includes 8 cleanup reports and is displayed after the "Transliterations" section. The data will become available on Saturday morning.
 
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The first 7 reports are language-specific and find "book-length titles with no publications, no same-language VTs and with a translated VT". The following languages are currently covered: English, French, German, Italian, Japanese, Russian and Spanish. Most reports are expected to have 150-450 titles depending on the language. Japanese is the only exception with over a thousand titles.
 
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The last report is a "catch-all" report for the remaining languages. It is sorted by language to make it easier to find books that different editors are familiar with. The total number of titles is expected to be just over 500.
 
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These reports ignore 0000-00-00 and 8888-00-00 titles, at least for now. Also, please note that they are limited to the following title types: NOVEL, COLLECTION, ANTHOLOGY, NONFICTION, and OMNIBUS. Another set of reports will be deployed for the remaining title types at a later point.
 
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Happy (and bibliographically profitable) New Year! :-) [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:18, 31 December 2021 (EST)
 
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== Bair/Gurney ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?6448; http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?132626. Same person, but 2 different records. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:57, 31 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:Updates made. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:39, 1 January 2022 (EST)
 

Latest revision as of 22:21, 3 May 2024


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Through the Budgerigar

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?925198; While adding LCCN to Jones novel Transplant I noticed this book was added not long ago and while SFE mentions it and even a cover artist there seems to be no evidence of a cover online; can anyone find one? --Username (talk) 18:06, 3 January 2024 (EST)

To the Sound of Freedom II

https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal/Archive/Archive53#To_the_Sound_of_Freedom; I came across this record again today; should it get an all-8's date? --Username (talk) 18:24, 4 January 2024 (EST)

HG Wells and His Critics

https://archive.org/search?query=wells-and-his-critics; Anyone know a way to tell which of the 3 publishers these copies are from so I can add links? The USA one has no record; maybe it was never actually published by them. --Username (talk) 22:38, 5 January 2024 (EST)

Top Science Fiction

https://archive.org/search?query=pachter-josh+top&sort=-addeddate; Someone added intros to this anthology recently, I added archived link long ago, just noticed a Spanish-language edition, La crema de la ciencia ficción, was upped to Archive.org in 2013 in case anyone fluent wants to enter that. EDIT: From the same publisher is La Crema del crimen, https://archive.org/search?query=crema-del-crimen, which includes a few stories from ISFDB judging by back cover. --Username (talk) 09:40, 6 January 2024 (EST)

I will add the Spanish one. What the heck. --MartyD (talk) 13:12, 6 January 2024 (EST)

Pachter

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1914279; Josh Pachter is credited as "with" on title page of 2015 English edition on Archive.org. Should he be added as co-author? --Username (talk) 10:21, 6 January 2024 (EST)

I didn't check the Archive.org copy, but the Look Inside on Amazon shows that "with" citation, but then on the copyright page it says the English translation is copyright 2015 Dhooge and Pachter. There is also a copyright 2014 for Dhooge and the original publisher. I interpret that to mean Pachter's role was (co-?)translator. I found Pachter's bibliography page, and this listed in the "Translations" section. But just to avoid having anything be too clear, he also has this, where he talks about previously translating another Dhooge work and being asked to "collaborate on an American version" of this one. So does that mean this isn't a translation but is actually a major revision? Dunno. Given that Pachter only takes credit for translating it, I think noting him as translator and documenting the "with" citation and the copyright statements (could throw in the Pachter site references as a bonus) should be sufficient. --MartyD (talk) 13:30, 6 January 2024 (EST)

Star Gors

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5851689; I was adding links and adding/fixing other stuff in some Gor editions, mostly UK Star PB, when I noticed an artist's signature for Players of Gor, Star edition, is on the cover but ISFDB had no credit. I tried several names I thought it could be and finally got Tony Masero who, as far as I can tell, is credited exactly once on the entire net for doing this cover, an AbeBooks/Biblio seller's description, but AbeBooks show the wrong (Daw Books) cover and Biblio's scan of the right cover is much too small to see the signature clearly. So I think I got a rare one. As can be seen here, [1], there are 5 other Star editions with no cover credit; if anyone can find a signature on any of them, beat me to it and enter them yourselves. --Username (talk) 21:49, 6 January 2024 (EST)

Night Mayor Cover Art

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?474; I noticed that the cover art for the original UK HC and the US C&G HC, which is the same, is credited to 2 different artists here. It's easy to find photos of the back flap of US online which does say design by Roy Colmer but of the several eBay sellers who offer the UK none thought to show the back flap. There are many C&G Colmer design credits online so I'm thinking Kemp did the art and US just didn't credit him, only their designer. So should we make C&G artist Jon Kemp with a note about him not being credited? --Username (talk) 19:11, 10 January 2024 (EST)

I have the UK hc of Kim Newman / The Night Mayor. The rear flap of the dust jacket states: "Jacket Illustration: Jon Kemp" and "Jacket Design: Bostock & Pollitt Ltd." Teallach (talk) 18:44, 18 January 2024 (EST)

Darrah Chavey's Passing

I was saddened to read this morning of Chavey's passing in File 770 (Number 7 in the Pixel Scroll). It was always a pleasure to work with him here and he will be missed. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 06:49, 11 January 2024 (EST)

I replaced link on his page with an updated one; also, while adding a link to the issue of the zine, Aurora, where his Walton essays appeared I discovered that most issues of Aurora and its predecessor Janus are on Archive.org, he PV most (all?) of them, but some have full contents while others have nothing. I imported a few poems from Robert Frazier, Steven M. Tymon, etc. but there's a ton of other book reviews and articles and stuff for anyone who's interested. --Username (talk) 19:15, 11 January 2024 (EST)
Sad news indeed. He had a heart attack a few years ago and has been less active since then, but he was only 69, so it was unexpected. Thanks for updating his User and Talk pages. I have updated user rights on his account. Ahasuerus (talk) 23:11, 12 January 2024 (EST)
Rtrace, thanks for letting us all know. I echo your sentiments. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:47, 13 January 2024 (EST)

Barn Owl

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?4296; I made an edit for City of Hermits long ago and today added some more stuff; I think this Barn Owl is not the same as the other that published much later. Ann Jungman who wrote a few of the later ones has a Wiki page where it says she founded Barn Owl in 1999 so I think the 1983 one should get a USA or California or something added to it. Whoever wrote the note about Frances Lincoln here seems to have conflated the 2 publishers; the England location probably belongs with the later publisher. --Username (talk) 08:27, 11 January 2024 (EST)

I separated out Barn Owl Books (UK) and Barn Owl Books (USA) based on the ISBN's. I also updated the notes for Barn Owl Books (UK) based on this article. When untangling publishers, the Global Register of Publishers can be of help. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:11, 13 January 2024 (EST)

Pat Frank Title

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5856366; I added cover image long ago; just came across archived copy which was there years before my edit so I'm not sure why I didn't add it back then but I did now and also added dash in title, H-Bomb, but I noticed there's another part of the title that people can't decide on. Mhhutchins entered it with 3 dots but title page has one GIANT dot while facing page has long dash and LOC/WorldCat has comma. So what's the consensus? --Username (talk) 11:44, 11 January 2024 (EST)

Sue Robinson

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?16675; I added archived link and a few other things to the HC of Amendment; author is a respected American newsperson. She should be differed from the Australian author. 1992 story in Weird Tales may be by either of them or another person since there's no bio in that issue. Also, does anyone own Amendment PB? It has nice cover art but there's no back cover photo online where I assume the artist would be credited. I see some weird blocks in the lower right, P and another letter, maybe initials or maybe just part of the art. --Username (talk) 19:10, 11 January 2024 (EST)

I separated out The Amendment to Sue Robinson (I). The author blurb for The Amendment does not align with the bio for the more prominent newspaper reporter of the same name, nor does that person list The Amendment as one of their works on their personal or faculty website. So probably two different reporters with same name. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:55, 13 January 2024 (EST)

Peter Goodfellow

http://petergoodfellow.com/index.php/2-uncategorised/18-misc2; I added a few credits for this artist but the last one has me stumped because the 1992 edition had the same cover as the last image here, http://petergoodfellow.com/index.php/2-uncategorised/18-misc2, but that was wrong because archived copy has the same Posen cover as the later printing on ISFDB. Goodfellow cover has an M for Mammoth so was it an earlier or later edition and why can't I find the original Methuen cover anywhere? --Username (talk) 12:54, 12 January 2024 (EST)

French Swastika

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5857839; French speakers, I made my usual shaky attempt at entering a foreign-language edition but I felt a book of such fame probably deserved it; after approval if anyone cares to look it over I'm sure it can be improved. I also made a follow-up edit changing date of French variant to a year earlier to match the date of this book. Also, those Feminist Press editions, https://archive.org/search?query=swastika-night&sort=-addeddate&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22, are a mess, the one with the white cover matches the UK Lawrence & Wishart edition's cover but has the info of the '85 Feminist edition, while the other 2 with the face on the cover either a) have no price on the back and totally different back cover text but copyright page is the same or b) are a 4th printing from 2003, I think, with cover info on copyright page the '85 edition doesn't have and a missing back cover so no way to tell what was on there. If anyone cares to figure all that out. For some reason the French edition I mentioned above is in English according to Archive.org which is obviously wrong. --Username (talk) 18:59, 12 January 2024 (EST)

UK Omni

https://fantlab.ru/edition356174; I added archived links to the 6 volumes of Best of Omni and noticed FantLab has a photo of #6 with a UK price on it in case anyone knows more about that; maybe all 6 were published there but, if so, none are on ISFDB. --Username (talk) 10:23, 14 January 2024 (EST)

Tiret-Bognet

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=bognet&type=Name; same Verne illustrator, same book in different languages, one should be parent and maybe some of the art needs merging, Holmesd worked on many of these Verne books so he'd probably know. --Username (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (EST)

Server maintenance 2024-01-15 at 3pm EST

The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance on 2024-01-15 (today) between 3pm and 3:10pm EST. The database and the Wiki will be unavailable. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:09, 15 January 2024 (EST)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:06, 15 January 2024 (EST)

N. Katerli

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=katerli&type=Name; I found a huge (380+ pages) thread on FantLab's message boards with people who have died, many of which were never entered on ISFDB (not all genre, though, some footballers and other non-genre people are included, too) and while adding many dates and photos I came across Katerli; I added Wiki link, day of death, and photo to Nina's record but is that other spelling the same person? If so, some variant would probably be needed. --Username (talk) 12:25, 17 January 2024 (EST)

It's very possible, given how things get romanized from Eastern European languages. Perhaps one of our Eastern European language people can do a little digging? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:30, 17 January 2024 (EST)
Looking into it a bit myself, I'm 100% sure they are the same person. Working on connecting them. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:57, 17 January 2024 (EST)
Okay, everything is here, now. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:27, 17 January 2024 (EST)
Thanks for working on her stories. I have added dates and updated the author record. Ahasuerus (talk) 21:51, 17 January 2024 (EST)

Terry Venables

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5861442; Is this the famous footballer (or soccer, as we Yanks call it)? There seem to be a lot of photos of him but some of them look like a different person so just making sure this is the right guy (he wrote some novels including Bornless Keeper which is on ISFDB but online info seems to suggest he didn't actually write any of it, Gordon Williams did). --Username (talk) 12:44, 17 January 2024 (EST)

Yes, things like that do happen: there are several titles in the database for which it is doubtful if the featured prominent author did actually write them; and so, jugig from the photo and the theme of the listed title it is the Terry Venables. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 07:38, 18 January 2024 (EST)
I can confirm that the photo in your submission is indeed of the English footballer Terry Venables. Teallach (talk) 18:42, 18 January 2024 (EST)

Alchemy Magazine

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?35135; Luminist.org has a lot of magazines not on Archive.org and while replacing cover and adding link to Alchemy #2 I noticed all 3 issues have a different format, TP/unknown/pulp. Those who know about such things may want to adjust those since I'm assuming they all should be the same format. --Username (talk) 01:11, 18 January 2024 (EST)

Dinotopia Digest Novels

I just made about 20 edits for this series (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5862661 through https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5862859) and as usual with series books it's a nightmare; I think I did as much as I could with what's available (oddly, only 1 book, Survive!, didn't have its original Random House edition entered on ISFDB so I had to scrounge up a copy on Google Books to enter info from). I think only one thing may raise questions and that's this, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2230051, where an editor here in 2017 entered James Gurney as cover artist but even though he's mentioned on all copyright pages because he's the creator/owner of Dinotopia it was actually Michael Welply who did all the covers. Problem is after I removed cover credit (I didn't enter Welply because while it does say that in archived 3rd printing copy there are some 1st printings of books in the series that misspelled it as Welpley and then corrected that in later printings) I noticed the nomination for best cover in the art record. So I don't know what to make of that; was Gurney nominated because he's the creator or did someone make a mistake and not nominate the real artist, Welply? --Username (talk) 12:58, 18 January 2024 (EST)

Pratchett's Eric - converting into novella?

I did a word count on a digital version of Eric, and it's around 35000 words, i.e. clearly a novella. Comments on the title and various publication records point out how unusually short it is. Locus calls the first edition a novella, but later editions a novel. I think the novella classification is correct, but am hesitant in converting such a high-profile title. Any opinions? TerokNor (talk) 08:01, 19 January 2024 (EST)

My electronic copy contains 34.2K words, so it's a novella. That said, I wonder about Locus changing its classification after the first edition. Is there any indication that later editions may have been longer? Ahasuerus (talk) 11:43, 19 January 2024 (EST)
I can find no indication of there being different editions of the text. I noticed however that after the original illustrated edition (which was billed "A Discworld Story"), it usually says "A Discworld Novel" on the covers, so Locus might have just gone with that. TerokNor (talk) 13:59, 19 January 2024 (EST)
It sounds like it's a novella whose subtitle (but not the word count) was changed in later editions. I suggest we wait for other editors to share their thoughts before we change the type from NOVEL to SHORTFICTION. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:49, 19 January 2024 (EST)
I added an Archive.org link in a PENDING edit to The Illustrated Eric, 2010 Gollancz HC, so that may help with the counting; page count said 144 but it is actually 131. --Username (talk) 12:26, 19 January 2024 (EST)
I have approved the submission that corrected the page count and updated the Note field to indicate where the corrected page count comes from. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:49, 19 January 2024 (EST)
(Chime) Not surprised, don't care, go ahead. ../Doug H (talk) 21:26, 19 January 2024 (EST)

(unindent) Hearing no objection, I have left a message on TerokNor's Talk page asking him to proceed with the proposed changes. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:38, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Thank you. I have submitted the first edit to begin the process. TerokNor (talk) 05:19, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Late Mods

I had a thought while adding FantLab ID to a PV Brian Lumley book today; is there a way to remove the necessity of adding a note to the mod about what changes you made if the mod is deceased? There have been several mod losses recently, most of whom PV countless books, so it would save time to not have to write anything if the only PV's are ones who are not going to read those notes. --Username (talk) 12:23, 19 January 2024 (EST)

I think there are two sides to this issue.
The first one is technical, i.e. whether it would be possible to modify the software to check each primary verifier's Talk page to see if it starts with the "Deceased user" template. The short answer is "Yes, it would be possible, although it would also make our core software more closely intertwined with the Wiki software, which may become a minor nuisance during the next Wiki upgrade".
The second one is functional, i.e. whether making this kind of change would be desirable. I am not sure it would. It would save some keystrokes, but there is value to having more detailed Edit History for primary verified publications even if their verifiers are no longer available. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:42, 19 January 2024 (EST)

Moll/Head Virgin Planet

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5864268; I added cover and prices but I think publisher should be changed to Wyndham, either Star or Tandem or Target which are all on ISFDB related to Wyndham, since their logo is on front and back covers, https://www.ebay.com/itm/143869122299. The other issue is the cover is the same Charles Moll art as earlier US paperbacks; Michael Head was a designer with 1 other ISFDB credit that notes say is just a photo and a Mike Head I noted in an edit earlier today as the designer for Piatkus edition of M. Bingley's Waiting Darkness did a cover which is just a photo of a fist. So where Head credit came from for Virgin Planet I don't know but I think Moll credit should replace it. --Username (talk) 23:09, 19 January 2024 (EST)

One Hundred Years of Science Fiction

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5864915; I'm guessing this Gollancz edition is rare judging by the fact there's almost no photos of the cover online. As can be seen in my edit, notes about year (probably very old and entered by the long-gone Bluesman) are obsolete now because the year is on the title page. Also, the price was entered by Mellotronman from his copy but for a 1969 UK book the pre-decimal price should be entered so that's what I did; problem is in his note to mod in edit history he says other price is 32s, not 30. So if he's still around he may want to PV and add a note about the alternate price (I'm assuming the archived copy's flap is badly framed which is why the other price is not visible) and delete year notes and add a new one saying the date is on the title page. --Username (talk) 12:31, 20 January 2024 (EST)

It doesn't help that two different printings share the same ISBN. Mine says 1970 on the front of the title page and 'second impression 1970' on the back of the same page. The price is most definitely listed on the dust jacket as '32s', an unusual way of writing 'shillings'. The more usual way would be '32/-'. Perhaps the first impression was 30s and the second 32? Mellotronman (talk) 16:55, 20 January 2024 (EST)
OK, I think it makes sense now, copy on Archive.org is '69 1st pr. with just s-price while your 1970 2nd pr. has both s-price and pounds. So after my edit is approved you may want to clone it and enter yours with new date and prices and PV it, too. --Username (talk) 19:07, 20 January 2024 (EST)

Tom Palmer

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?98449; 2 or 3 different Palmers here; novels are by the guy pictured but the art credits are by the recently deceased (2022) famous comic artist who had a still-online site, tompalmerillustration, and a Wiki page as Tom Palmer (comics); the poem, judging by the bio at the archived Aphelion link, is by another likely American Palmer. --Username (talk) 21:58, 20 January 2024 (EST)

Lone Star Law

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?80404; Anyone think this should be deleted? --Username (talk) 17:34, 21 January 2024 (EST)

The Note field says:
  • Western story anthology. It may have some spec-fic stories, but otherwise, there's no reason for it to be in the database.
Have we been able to find this anthology's table of contents and determine whether any of the stories are SF? Ahasuerus (talk) 15:23, 24 January 2024 (EST)
I was able to look at the ToC via the Amazon Look Inside feature for the pb edition (ISBN 978-1982153069) and I don't see anything there that looks like SF. Phil (talk) 15:38, 24 January 2024 (EST)
Reading the editor's introductions to each story I noticed that two stories were called "eerie". After reading them, I can confirm that one is an unambiguous ghost story while the other one is an ambiguous "curse" story. I have added them to the publication record and updated Notes. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:13, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Recording plagiarized work

A couple of days ago File 770 reported (item 5) that "After the Flood" by John Kucera was plagiarised from another author. I've added a note to that title record, but I'm wondering whether anything else should be done, e.g. making it a variant? ErsatzCulture (talk) 01:36, 22 January 2024 (EST)

Unless the poem uses the same wording I'd think the only thing we can do is to add notes to the title (and likely the publications the plagiat was published in). Christian Stonecreek (talk) 01:32, 22 January 2024 (EST)
All three of the works "by" this author that are listed on ISFDB appear to have been plagiarized. I've added notes to the title entries as well as the publication entries. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:59, 22 January 2024 (EST)
Thanks all! ErsatzCulture (talk) 15:22, 22 January 2024 (EST)
At some point, we should probably make them variants since (in all the reports I've read) only the title were changed by the plagiarizer. Similar to this one. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:34, 22 January 2024 (EST)
I've added the variants for the two I could figure out. Still unsure who originally wrote "Summer 1993" and what the original title was. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:15, 22 January 2024 (EST)
How about this one, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2951283? --Username (talk) 16:29, 22 January 2024 (EST)
Looks like it's the same guy per a Google search that brought up this (archive), which is the same thing but under his Kucera name. Now to try to figure out who really wrote it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:06, 22 January 2024 (EST)
Some additional archive links to help us figure out all of this: Wild Word, Lothlorien Poetry Journal (archive), One Art Poetry on X, One Art Poetry, The Fictional Cafe, Sparks of Calliope (see also this page), New Reader Magazine (archive), Wendy N. Wagner loves pie on BlueSky, and I'll add more later. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:31, 22 January 2024 (EST)

(unindent) I suspect that the issue of plagiarized works is going to become harder to deal with in the near future. In the past we had to deal with two types of scenarios:

  • word-for-word reprints with the title/credits changed, usually by shady publishers or self-publishers
  • more elaborate schemes whose perpetrators plagiarized sections of other authors' works

The first type is fairly straightforward, but the second type is hard to catch. For example, volumes 29 and 33 in the Casca series were retroactively removed from the series over allegations of plagiarism in April-June 2013. It happened 3-5 years after their original publication even though the Casca fandom is very active. It's not something that we, bibliographers, can realistically identify on our own.

Over the last few months I have seen a number of reports of plagiarists using software to scrape Web-published stories, massage them using ChatGPT and put them on Amazon, e.g. this episode over the Christmas holidays. I suspect it's going to be a pain to deal with. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:29, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Bard II

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?291859; Wrong cover, it has price and ISBN of earlier printing, I can't find right cover, if anyone else can, can you upload it and replace this one? --Username (talk) 10:47, 22 January 2024 (EST)

Also, The First Long Ship (or Longship on some sites) which has no cover online I can find so if it exists and someone can find it that needs uploading, too. --Username (talk) 11:03, 22 January 2024 (EST)

Galactic Central Images

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5867682; The only other site I can find that has this cover is Camelot Books; I was going to upload it when I thought of checking Philsp and found it hiding there. Is the owner(s) of that site ever going to upgrade to HTTPS? Right-click and "open image in new tab" does show the image but it still would be better if that didn't have to be done. --Username (talk) 12:43, 22 January 2024 (EST)

Last I heard, the owner said that he had no plans to upgrade to HTTPS. That said, browser vendors have been making it harder to access HTTP sites, which puts pressure on site owners to upgrade. It remains to be seen how it may affect Galactic Central in the future. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:21, 24 January 2024 (EST)

German Playboy

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?757; While replacing sideways Amazon cover with better straight cover for one of these books I noticed there are 8 or 9 that don't have cover credits (last book was unpublished so likely no cover exists); since most covers in the series were originally on English-language books it's likely the missing ones were, too, so if anyone can recognize the art then artists can be entered and variants can be made. --Username (talk) 09:08, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Brian Ames Title

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?119003; I added a link to a MOTA anthology over a year ago and there's a 2002 story by Brian Ames which editors before me seemed to have trouble deciding how to enter (see extensive title edit history), eventually settling on a symbol; however, in his collection someone entered the title as "grey blob", which is what it actually looks like in the anthology. So the 2 stories are the same and should be merged but what should the title be entered as? This reminds me of that David J. Schow horror story where nobody can ever decide how to enter it and eventually settled on "scribbled graffiti" or this, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?76213, but at least Oates can get away with that because most of her work is pretentious "literary" stuff, anyway. --Username (talk) 12:22, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Merged here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:39, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Duplicate finder -- NOVEL/CHAPBOOK?

The "Duplicate Finder" program, which exists in three incarnations -- one for Author pages, one for Title pages and one for Publication pages -- searches for potential duplicate titles and then lets you merge them. Its default mode of operations is "exact", which means that two (or more) titles need to have the exact same spelling as well as the same authors in order to be considered potential duplicates.

The "exact" mode also ignores unlikely title type mismatches. For example, if one title record is SHORTFICTION and another one is NOVEL, they won't be flagged as potential duplicates. However, the "exact" mode currently flags NOVEL and CHAPBOOK titles with identical titles and authors as potential duplicates. I am thinking that this is likely more harmful than useful and would like to propose that we change the behavior of the "exact" mode to skip identical NOVEL/CHAPBOOK pairs. Ideas? Ahasuerus (talk) 17:35, 24 January 2024 (EST)

I agree. As it is currently, we could accidentally merge titles incorrectly. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:40, 24 January 2024 (EST)
I also agree. --MartyD (talk) 13:21, 25 January 2024 (EST)
I use that one a lot especially when adding juvenile chapbooks to prolific authors (mainly Fixer's) - because of how Amazon has these, they rarely make it to addPubs and not having the duplicate finder highlight the previously entered novel (a lot of these are stored as novels and need conversion) makes it more likely not to see the other version on the page. So I would rather not lose it... Annie (talk) 18:43, 25 January 2024 (EST)
Let me clarify that the Duplicate Finder's "similar" mode would continue to flag NOVEL, SHORTFICTION and CHAPBOOK titles as potential duplicates after the proposed change. Would it be sufficient for Fixer-originated use cases? Ahasuerus (talk) 21:41, 25 January 2024 (EST)
But we do not have a similar mode in the pubs/titles Duplicate finder. The one I use is the one that triggers when you click on "Check for Duplicate Titles" after a Pub/Title Edit. Which I believe is "exact". If I need to go to the author page every time to run a separate similar mode check, it will add steps. Plus in some of these authors, it will highlight a lot of things which is different from the current case where it is a quick check that finds usually a single match when it does. I can make it work - but it will add to the workflow. One option may be to allow the similar as an option on pub/title duplicate finder - keep the exact as a default but allow a similar to be run with a click how we do it on author page's find duplicates? A separate click which is right there will help.
And this is not just for Fixer usecases - I've needed it when moderating as well often enough in a similar usecase - we have chapbook/novel and a new(ish) member adds the same as the other.
If the proposal is to remove it from the 'Author' exact duplicate finder only with no change for the pub/title duplicate finder, then I am fine with removing it there. But the way the proposal reads, it sounds like we are not going to show it in the default mode in either :) Annie (talk) 10:45, 26 January 2024 (EST)
Thanks for the clarification. I forgot about the fact that the versions of the Duplicate Finder software used on Publication and Title pages do not support "similar" and "aggressive" modes. If memory serves, the reason was performance -- there can be thousands of titles with "similar" spellings where "similar" is defined as an 85% overlap, the current threshold value.
It sounds like what we may need is a new Duplicate Finder mode. Something that would be the same as the "exact" mode except that it would also flag identical CHAPBOOK/NOVEL title pairs. It would be made available on all three Duplicate Finder pages.
If it sounds workable, I can look into what it would take to implement it. I suspect that it should be a fairly straightforward change, but I am not 100% sure. We'll also need to come up with an intuitive name for the new mode. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:11, 26 January 2024 (EST)
That will work for me. And if you are going to do it, we may think about throwing an anthology/collection/omnibus format mix in the same mode (same usecase essentially - especially around juveniles and novellas previously added as novels). And even poem/shortfiction? Maybe simply pull all the format discrepancy matches out from Exact (requiring a format match in it) and move them to their own type of duplicate finder mode. That will also make it less likely for someone to merge by mistake based on the standard duplicate find.Annie (talk) 12:27, 26 January 2024 (EST)
You could have "type" be an independent modifier applied to any of the three modes. Something like "Match identical types only", on by default. That would also be easy to extend to other criteria (e.g., language) in the future without having a cross product of mode choices. --MartyD (talk) 14:26, 26 January 2024 (EST)
Good point! Ahasuerus (talk) 14:43, 26 January 2024 (EST)

(unindent) After experimenting on the development server and paying closer attention when working on the Clean Authors cleanup, I think I have a better appreciation for Annie's concerns. At this point clicking "Check for Duplicate Titles" post-approval is second nature for moderators and self-approvers. When a submission adds a NOVEL publication, it's very helpful to know that a CHAPBOOK pub with the same title already exists in the database, especially if the submitter is a robot. Requiring the approving moderator to click yet another link/button would mess with the workflow.

I suppose we could change the Duplicate Finder logic to ignore CHAPBOOK/NOVEL duplicates by default, but display a yellow warning -- and a link to the more relaxed version of the Duplicate Finder -- if they exist. I am not sure it would be ideal, though. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:34, 31 January 2024 (EST)

As long as it is a link and not a need to go elsewhere or to go to the author level, that will work for me.
I'd also want to ask for the anthology/collection/omnibus and the poem/short fiction checks to be added to the chapbook/novel both for the yellow warning and the more relaxed one - both of these happen often enough to be annoying if we lose the ability to see them on the duplicate finder. Unless the plan is to leave these into the default one - in which case, we are fine. Annie (talk) 11:45, 31 January 2024 (EST)
After thinking some more about this issue, it occurs to me that there may be another way to approach this issue. Currently, most post-approval Web pages display links that let you view/edit the updated/added record or, for some submission types like Make Variant, multiple records. A few post-submission pages also link to the Duplicate Finder or other pages.
However, there is nothing preventing the post-approval software from quietly checking the status of the added/updated record(s) and displaying appropriate warnings. For example, the post-approval page for NewPubs could run the Duplicate Finder behind the scenes and then display a message like:
  • The added publication record includes a title record with the same title and authors as another title record. Use the Duplicate Finder link above to see the details.
This warning message would be easy to implement and moderators would no longer have to worry about forgetting to click "Duplicate Finder" after approving NewPub submissions. Does this sound useful?
If we choose to add this warning message, we could still decide to tweak the Duplicate Finder logic later, but I think the message should be implemented first since it changes the workflow. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:53, 2 February 2024 (EST)
That will be useful -- I am not sure how many false alerts will show up and how they will be treated (especially from the less experienced moderating users - usually the self-approvers) but other from that, any checks the software can do for me are always welcome. Annie (talk) 14:08, 6 February 2024 (EST)
OK, FR 1592, "Warning after approving NewPub submissions which create potential duplicates", has been created. We'll see how useful it will be. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:48, 6 February 2024 (EST)

Duplicate Finder enhancements -- Outcome

FR 1592 has been implemented. After approving NewPub/AddPub/ClonePub/EditPub submissions, moderators and self-approvers will now see a yellow warning and a link to the Duplicate Finder if the created/affected publication record contains one (or more) title records which have the same title(s) and author(s) as other title records in the database. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:58, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Moondust

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?22737; I added a whole bunch of edits for Rosemary Harris books and also found a PDF link for her early uncollected story "Hamlin" at Galactic Journey. Looking through their list of PDF's I noticed a Swann link and, thinking it would be a short story, I clicked it and it turned out to be the full original edition of his novel Moondust which has no copies at the usual places like Internet Archive or Luminist. I'm guessing there's more novels hiding in that list but for now I'll just ask if anyone owns the book and wouldn't mind transcribing the text on the last 2 pages and adding it to the record because those are missing in the PDF. I'm not sure what copyright rules are for a 50+-year-old book but I think a page or two would count as an excerpt and wouldn't bother anyone, right? --Username (talk) 11:43, 25 January 2024 (EST)

That can get complicated. Since this was first published in 1968 in the United States, and if it was published with a copyright notice, the copyright expires at the end of 2063 (meaning it becomes public domain on January 1, 2064). If it was published without a copyright notice, since it was published between 1964 and 1977, it is now in the public domain. See here for more details. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:27, 25 January 2024 (EST)
Looking at the PDF copy from the link you submitted, the copyright notice is very clear on the back of the title page. This means the copyright doesn't expire until 2064, so we shouldn't be linking to a pirated PDF copy. I rejected the link addition. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:30, 25 January 2024 (EST)
So does that mean that all the 330 or so Luminist.org PDF's currently linked on ISFDB are pirated, too? Because I don't think most of those are public domain; I would know because I'm the one who added most of the links. Has any mod in the history of this site ever gotten a request from anyone to remove a Luminist PDF? I'd be curious to know. When someone pirates something and uploads it, they love to add their name, fake as it may be, to the upload, similar to how computer game crackers decades ago loved to add their names to the crack, usually with some animation and music (which were sometimes better than those in the game itself); believe me, I could easily add hundreds of Internet Archive links to rare books right now except for the fact that the uploaders converted them to crap e-editions with removed page numbers. I don't see anything like that in Moondust so it's likely someone's personal copy they converted to a PDF; it's clearly the original paperback with page numbers and a bookstore sticker on the cover and everything. Since Swann died in 1976 and the last reprint as far as ISFDB (and WorldCat) say was in 1977 I doubt anyone would care if a PDF was linked to here; any serious collector would want a physical copy. My suggestion would be to un-reject it. Barring that, I'll just go ahead and make a note with the address of the PDF but not hot-linked so people know where it is but actually have to paste the URL into the address bar themselves in order to get it. --Username (talk) 17:47, 25 January 2024 (EST)
This guy, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?286234, runs the site. Looks legit to me; he even published a magazine of the same title. --Username (talk) 18:08, 25 January 2024 (EST)
The question about the status of Luminist-hosted PDF files is an interesting one. I should first note that I became aware of the Luminist Web site back in 2010 when we were given permission to link to Luminist-hosted images. I was under the impression that the files that they host were similar to Gutenberg-hosted "copyright-cleared" files, which is why I have been approving their addition for the last few years.
However, reading the copyright statement on the main Luminist page:
  • This collection may contain copyrighted material which has not been specifically authorized for our use. The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) provides for making “fair use” copies of copyrighted materials under certain conditions, including that that the reproduction is not to be used commercially or “for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research.” By accessing files linked to this site you are agreeing to abide by these restrictions. If you do not agree, do not download. If any copyright owner objects to our inclusion of their material on this web site, please do not harass our hosting providers; just contact us with the pertinent information. We will remove contested content promptly upon receipt of legitimate requests. Readers who wish to obtain a permanent copy of any item are encouraged to acquire one from a bookseller of their choice. Readers may contact us for assistance in locating copies for purchase.
I see that they expect their users to download PDF files for "private study, scholarship, or research" purposes and, apparently, not for permanent use. This relies on an interpretation of the "fair use" doctrine which seems a bit too stretchy to me, but I am not an expert in the field. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:09, 25 January 2024 (EST)
OK, sounds good to me, "private study" clearly can mean reading the book and since they're being linked at ISFDB that covers the scholarship/research part. Also, what I took to be a Galactic Journey magazine is just a few random pages from the webzine with a couple of essay links, 1 of which is movie-related and probably doesn't qualify, but there's some Hugo Award nomination so I guess they count; the first entry is totally blank and was actually entered by user "galacticjourney" himself with mods questioning on his page why he entered it since it's a webzine. The site is still running currently and has hundreds of essays, many of which would be suitable for entry here, I'm sure. --Username (talk) 18:25, 25 January 2024 (EST)
Let me clarify what I meant by "a bit too stretchy". The part of the Copyright Law that they cite -- "for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research" -- doesn't come from the "fair use" clause (Section 107 of the Copyright Act.) Instead it comes from Section 108, "Reproduction by libraries and archives". Section 108 is a lengthy section with a set of provisions that are completely different from the "fair use" provisions in Section 107. It's odd that the Luminist Web site cites Section 108 ("libraries and archives") language to support what they state is a Section 107 ("fair use") exception.
I should add that both Section 107 and Section 108 lawsuits can get complex and technical as we saw during Hachette v. Internet Archive in 2020-2023. My knowledge of these topics is very limited, but hopefully other editors may have more in-depth knowledge and/or relevant experience in this field. Ahasuerus (talk) 21:38, 25 January 2024 (EST)
I have started a Rules and Standards discussion to see if we can come up with unambiguous rules for linking to third party-hosted texts. Ahasuerus (talk) 20:50, 26 January 2024 (EST)

Reactor?!?

I was at my awful local public library printing out various articles and short stories for free which is the only positive thing about libraries these days and after my hour was up I realized I forgot to check Tor.com to see if they published any new fiction (horror only, please, no SF or fantasy) so I checked when I got home and got a scary-looking page which made me think a computer virus had finally taken hold of my laptop after not having one for many years but it turns out that Tor apparently has re-named themselves Reactor. Is anyone else aware of this? --Username (talk) 17:08, 26 January 2024 (EST)

Yes, they announced it a few weeks ago. New site, new name (to differentiate them from the Tor.com publisher), same team, same contents. All the old links to their old site should be forwarding cleanly to the new one. Annie (talk) 17:30, 26 January 2024 (EST)
And the announcement and Q&A about it. Annie (talk) 17:31, 26 January 2024 (EST)
I suspect that the part of the FAQ that is most likely to affect us is this:
  • SFF literature is still the heart of what we do, and that’s our priority. We’ll just also be open to related subjects of interest, from nonfic to romantasy, pirates to gardening, and so on.
So it looks like they will have more non-genre content going forward, but they expect to remain primarily SF-oriented for the foreseeable future. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:23, 26 January 2024 (EST)

Chinese Godzilla?

https://archive.org/search?query=%E6%80%AA%E7%8D%A3%E3%82%B4%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A9&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22; If anyone knows what this is about and decides it warrants entering, thanks. --Username (talk) 18:18, 29 January 2024 (EST)

Magic German Cats

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?33710; There was a 1999 German edition under a new title, https://archive.org/details/katmagie13katten0000unse, in case anyone fluent wants to enter that. --Username (talk) 10:02, 30 January 2024 (EST)

ZOLTAR

[2]; Polish primary verifier seemed to be very active in 2012 and then nothing, they left a lot of their 300+ PV unfinished with missing info, mentioning this in case anyone fluent in Polish wants to follow up on any of them and add or fix anything. I thought of this before but remembered it today after finding a photo for Jerzy Sosnowski on FantLab and an archived copy of the anthology PL +50 which his story on ISFDB appears in. --Username (talk) 12:45, 30 January 2024 (EST)

verification email

I have tried several times to elicit a verification email but nothing has arrived. I've checked junk & trash as well. Is this simply not working? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Starman99 (talk • contribs) .

I am afraid this is a common occurrence, which we discuss in the ISFDB FAQ:
  • Different email servers have different automated rules which may block email coming from certain Web sites, which makes it hard to tell what's preventing ISFDB confirmation email from being delivered to your mailbox.
  • Note, however, that confirmation emails are optional as far as ISFDB is concerned. As long as you can log in, you have full access to all ISFDB features including Advanced Search, display preferences, submission creation etc.
Since you were able to post the message above, you should be all set :-) Ahasuerus (talk) 18:11, 30 January 2024 (EST)

Ace Dates

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5872024; Can someone on the long list of editors find out where someone got month from? Whoever entered many of these old PB long ago was very random about noting where they got the month, but I remember it was a checklist or something so that's likely where this one came from, too. I thought it would be obvious why I added the month since it's there throughout the contents but I guess not. --Username (talk) 23:27, 30 January 2024 (EST)

Berthon

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=theodore+le&type=Name; Space in first entry separates same essay from its appearances elsewhere; no essay title page I can find but I did see a contents page of Frankenstein File that says, um, Ted Le Berthon, https://www.ebay.com/itm/334647759422. So, if anyone can verify, a merge or variant will be needed. --Username (talk) 00:08, 31 January 2024 (EST)

I'm looking for a book title

Hello everyone, I'm looking for a book title. I read the book years ago probably in the 80s. A quick summary the world is divided by a massive mountain range. I think that the protagonist must climb the mountain range in order to become the ruler. They climb the mountain only to find a deep valley on the other side with an even higher mountain range behind it. The protagonist ultimately climbs the second mountain range where they find another land on the far side with another intelligent species. This has been driving me batty and I would appreciate it if anyone knows what this books title is and who wrote it. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment added by Firefighterbgrg (talk • contribs) 19:21, February 1, 2024‎

If no one here is able to help you, we have a section in our FAQ that gives several places where you can ask for help finding the book. Good luck! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:15, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Darrah Chavey

I learn via Ansible today that Darrah Chavey left this mortal coil on 6 January. He was always a learned and consistent editor to work alongside at the ISFDB... Happy trails Darrah, Rest In Peace. :( PeteYoung (talk) 10:39, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Yes, indeed. There was a brief Community Portal discussion on 2024-01-11 and Darrah's database record was updated. RIP. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:01, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Gardner F. Fox's text story in "Strange Adventures"

Earlier today a Usenet poster pointed out that Gardner F. Fox published "The Magic Maker of Rann", a text story, in the comic Strange Adventures #226. The story is lavishly illustrated, but the text works just fine even if you were to reprint it without illustrations, which is how we determine whether a story is "graphic".

The whole thing is available online, illustrations included. Should we treat Strange Adventures as a non-genre periodical and list this story? Ahasuerus (talk) 16:32, 2 February 2024 (EST)

I've entered a number of Eando Binder stories from the Lieutenant Jon Jarl of the Space Patrol series that originally appeared in Captain Marvel Adventures comic, and I entered them in exactly the manner you suggest. I believe some of these stories have been reprinted as text alone, so I felt I was on pretty safe ground. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 16:43, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Lost Ark Storybook

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5880702; ISBN belongs to Scholastic edition judging by a back cover I saw online. There's a later (3rd) trade printing on Archive.org with trade and library ISBN on the copyright page so either this record should be made Scholastic or a new record created for Random House edition(s). I've been adding dozens of Wikipedia links to novelizations recently and I've come across some other issues like this (only one I can remember is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade by Anne Digby which has pub. series as Hippo Books but that actually belongs to the UK edition which I made a new record for) so when these are approved a check and some fixing/adding is probably needed for at least a few of them. --Username (talk) 12:50, 3 February 2024 (EST)

Rise of the Silver Surfer

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?346021; I made an edit fixing typo "udpated" to "updated", surprisingly the only such error on all of ISFDB, and realized that this edition was likely never published with AbeBooks having a weird "cover to be unveiled" photo. So unless someone can find evidence of a copy I think this should get the unpublished date. --Username (talk) 19:30, 3 February 2024 (EST)

Parnassus Wizard of Earthsea

https://archive.org/details/wizardofearthsea00ursu; I added a link to a Parnassus edition based on someone's extensive notes here (no number line or smudge on title page) but there are some editions of this book only linked from Open Library including the one above which has a price much higher than any other book from the publisher on ISFDB but copyright page has same info as 1969 2nd printing so if anyone knows a way to determine the date a new edition can be added. There's an ancient ISFDB bibliography from 2006 by Ahasuerus, https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Author:Ursula_K._Le_Guin, which could probably use some updating unless it's been updated somewhere else. --Username (talk) 20:08, 4 February 2024 (EST)

Pranks

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?17626; I've made edits for all editions before, original 1983 Amazon cover seems to have disappeared leading to a broken image so I replaced it, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5882029, then I replaced OL/Archive cover which is too dark with an Amazon cover, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5882020, that isn't great but is brighter and still retains the sparkly stuff on the title that Leisure used to attract people to buy their books which then led to disappointment when the buyers realized the novels themselves were usually crap, the latest edition is fine as is, so now I think the 1983 edition with the wrong price and ISBN should be deleted and the image uploaded by Chris J. should be removed from the Wiki since it seems to be the badly creased cover that's still on Amazon with unnecessary back cover included. --Username (talk) 11:17, 5 February 2024 (EST)

Felix Kelly

I entered new records for Faber anthologies Best Murder Stories and Best Murder Stories 2 which are mostly genre or by genre authors; I also looked at Best Tales of Terror, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?4213, and even though I know I've seen that cover many times I never noticed until seeing it full-sized on FantLab that there's a very clear signature lower right, FELIX KELLY. I entered that in an edit but the problem is that the record for him, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?255975, might be the same artist who did the 1956 art but can't be the guy from 1879. So there may be 2 Felix Kellys in case anyone can find out more and separate them into 2 records; it's also possible that the 1956 art was not new but taken from something drawn by the older Kelly. --Username (talk) 10:09, 6 February 2024 (EST)

Also added Margaret Wolpe as cover artist for Best Tales of Terror 2; no signature I can see but FantLab credits her + there's a copy on Dalby's site whose front flap says she did "jacket design" and the art does look like many of her other Faber covers. Also greatly updated her record with lots of bio info and noted she was married to Berthold, also an artist, and updated his record as well. Dalby's copy has a pounds price sticker covering another pound price so I'm getting the impression Faber reprinted their anthologies many times with no way to tell except the prices kept getting higher; lots of printings are probably missing so if anyone has any not on ISFDB it would be good to enter them. --Username (talk) 11:03, 6 February 2024 (EST)

The Adventure of the Peerless Peer

Are there any objections to converting this to a novella? The recent ebook reprint is marked as 27k words by Kobo USA and looking at the page numbers and some of the other editions, it does feel too small to be a novel. Thanks! Annie (talk) 17:41, 6 February 2024 (EST)

It's definitely a novella. The Titan Books edition (2011) is well over 200 pages and looks like a bona fide novel, but its apparent length is due to the addition of a very long promotional excerpt from Kim Newman's Moriarty: The Hound of the D'Urbervilles. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:16, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Termush - convert to novella

Another recent reprint shows this one as 25k words in English (Kobo USA count) which will leave it well short of 40K in its original Danish as well. Any objections to converting this to a novella? Annie (talk) 18:27, 6 February 2024 (EST)

John Stanley

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5883789; See my note about artist, that Little Lulu credit in the original Stanley record belongs with I's record because, as my note in the original says, he was born in '39 or '40 so he would only have been 9 or 10 if he did that art which is unlikely; this is the right Stanley, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stanley_(cartoonist). The Melvin Monster credits belong with I, too. I have to assume the Fengriffen Stanley is not the same as I because it's a UK edition and he's American plus it's a photograph, not drawn. --Username (talk) 00:10, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Doolin

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?431777; Late PV entered James Doolin based on signature but there is none, FantLab photo has initials JPD, it's actually Joseph Doolin, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?27894, and he has an entry for the same art, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1590968. --Username (talk) 10:48, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Uncorrected Proofs

I'm holding this submission to update this record. I noticed that the record states that it was unpublished (8888-00-00), yet there appears to be a cover that was just added. More importantly it also describes this as an "uncorrected proof" and I had thought that proofs were outside of our scope. The policy specifically excludes Advance Reading Copies unless available for sale to the public. Do uncorrected proofs differ from ARCs in terms of determining scope? This seems straightforward to me and I believe the publication should be deleted. If others disagree and this requires a full discussion, we can move this the the Rules and Standards board. Thoughts? Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:59, 7 February 2024 (EST)

I read the rules the same way you do - ARCs and uncorrected proofs are out. However, we do keep records of unpublished but announced books (these are in scope under the announced but never published (entered as "unpublished") part of ROA) so I would not delete this one as it is under that category. So ARC/uncorrected proof of a book that comes out will not be eligible but if the book never makes it out, adding the notes about it into the 8888 book are fine I think. Annie (talk) 11:22, 7 February 2024 (EST)
Comparing this publication record with other, published, editions of the book, I note that it has a different ISBN in addition to a different publisher name. I typically enter announced-then-canceled ISBNs as 8888-00-00 publication records under the rule referenced by Annie. Their presence in our database helps answer a common question: "Whatever happened to this apparent first edition? Why can't I find any copies for sale?" We all know how obsessed collectors can get when it comes to first editions and our database is frequently the only readily accessible place that explains what happened to a "disappeared" ISBN. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:51, 7 February 2024 (EST)
I've no argument with a publication record for an announced, but unpublished book. However, an unpublished book and an uncorrected proof are two different things. The notes on this record confuse the issue as to what the record represents. The addition of a cover scan and artist further confuses things. How are we able to display a cover of a book that was never published? I would suggest that the notes be reworked to indicate that a proof was done as evidence of the planned publication. We could replace the first two sentences with "The Bluejay Books imprint was dissolved late in 1986 just after an uncorrected proof for this planned edition was printed in September of that year." I would also recommend deleting the cover of the proof and rejecting the addition of an artist. I do worry that if we were to make an exception and allow a record specifically for an uncorrected proof when the book is never published, it would encourage the addition of other proofs and ARCs especially by those editors who surmise rules by examples of what is already in the database. If others think this should be a valid exception to allow records for proofs, then we should document it in the scope page as is done with ARCs offered for sale. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:00, 7 February 2024 (EST)
That sounds like a plan and the proposed change in the notes sounds fine to me - that will make it clear that the record is here because the book was announced and not because it had an ARC/uncorrected proofs done. I am at two minds about the cover - if it was announced with the book, recording it makes sense as it may help trace it to an artist later on and as it is part of the record after all. But other from that - I agree that we need to be careful not to confuse ARCs and unpublished books per se - although when a publication fails through often varies so there are ARCs out there for books that do not make it - that one being an example. Maybe all we need is to strengthen the language to specify that the exclusion is for books that end up being published - thus allowing the usecase we have here without a concern. Annie (talk) 19:06, 7 February 2024 (EST)
I agree that the pub record should stay because it falls under "announced but never published" and agree with Ron that the problem with it as it stands is that the pub note gives the impression that the record has been created for the proof, not the unpublished book. Ron's tweak to the pub note solves this problem.
Further notes and suggestions:
1) I agree that mentioning the proof in the pub note is a good idea. It is evidence that the book was announced.
2) I definitely think the cover image should be deleted. It should either be omitted or of the final cover. The latter assumes the publisher reached that stage and that we could find the image. All very unlikely. The cover image is more than just the artwork; it's also the colouring, wording, layout and typography and those aspects of the proof cover clearly wouldn't reflect the final version.
3) I would delete the OCLC/WorldCat External ID and just mention it in the pub note because it refers specifically to the uncorrected proof and not the unpublished final work.
4) I'm ambivalent about importing the coverart record. It's clear from the cover of the proof that Ron Walotsky was the intended artist so this falls under "announced but never published" but it would need a pub note explaining the source and why there's no image.
5) I'm broadly against making an exception for including ARC's / proofs when the book was unpublished although I do see Annie's point of view. But I think it's an unnecessary complication and veers back towards Ron's point about "encourage the addition of other proofs and ARC's especially by those editors who surmise rules by examples of what is already in the database" which is something I strongly agree we want to avoid. Also, if we do permit this exception, how do we implement it? Does it mean we would have two pub records: one for the unpublished work and one for the proof? Teallach (talk) 07:46, 8 February 2024 (EST)
I've gone ahead and change the notes as discussed above. I've also moved the Worldcat number and the cover into the notes so that it's clear the record is for the unpublished work and not for the proof. I'll reject the held edit. Let me know if someone disagrees with these changes. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:47, 12 February 2024 (EST)

N. Carroll

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?165703; The stories belong with the other Carroll but that ndp thing doesn't look right to me so maybe some other differing addition should replace it. --Username (talk) 23:58, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Author attribution on the three stories, initially credited to Noël Carrol, has been corrected. John Scifibones 07:57, 8 February 2024 (EST)
Thanks. I still think it's weird about that (ndp) because there's thousands of nom de plumes on ISFDB but this is the only one that has that added on the end of the name. --Username (talk) 08:28, 8 February 2024 (EST)
Well, we have some with (pseudonym) attached, and I'd think that'd be more meaningful (ndp isn't a colloquial abbreviation), or just a (I) attached. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 11:52, 8 February 2024 (EST)
I don't think we should use any parentheticals if we can avoid it. Since we have the (I) thing we already use extensively, I think that would be the best option for any that are currently using "(pseudonym)" as a disambiguator. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:20, 8 February 2024 (EST)
There are reasons why I chose to set the author up as Noel Carroll (ndp). However, it's not worth our time to debate. I have changed it to Noel Carroll. Not sure that the standards imply that Roman numerals are the preferred dismbiguator. Here is the applicable help section. Thanks for your interest, John Scifibones 14:06, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Karen Simmons

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1117998; She's the wife of Dan Simmons, credited for author photograph in the HC which can be seen on eBay, [3], art is likely by one of the regular Headline cover artists, Chris Moore maybe, but I don't see a signature. So her credit should be removed. I noticed a 2nd printing of the Headline PB on Archive.org which has that same art (and price) but different blurbs on top and bottom so I'm going to enter that now. --Username (talk) 10:37, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Hi! There's a primary verification by Faustus. It'd be meaningful if you contact him to shed some light on the actual credit. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 11:49, 8 February 2024 (EST)
Hi! There's no credit on the PB because there's no author photo like there is on the back of the HC. 2nd printing PB I just entered has no art credit. I'm sure someone here familiar with UK PB artists will identify it in some artist's book sooner or later but it's certainly not by Dan's wife. --Username (talk) 12:08, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Wesso

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5885644; Wiki says 1893. Anyone here who can find proof it's really 1894? I looked for a headstone but couldn't find one. --Username (talk) 13:49, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Story about the Premiere of Rite of Spring

I'm looking for the short story (probably from 1970s) about recreating the experience of the premiere of The Rite of Spring by giving all of the audience members a new drug. I believe this was in one of the better short story annuals of the era.

Most of my book collection is in storage, alas, so I can't find this by leafing through my old pulp. —The preceding unsigned comment added by Martycohen36 (talk • contribs) 17:38, February 8, 2024‎

Black Christmas

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?878255; While entering Wikipedia links for tons of novelizations I came across this rare 1976 one for the classic 1974 horror film. The original edition is apparently very rare because I've looked everywhere and can't find a copyright page that doesn't have the word FANGORIA on it because apparently Fangoria Magazine reprinted it in 2008 (although there is very little mention of this online). It does include the original info so I was able to enter the month (February, which is odd because you'd think it would be late in the year to capitalize on the holiday) but if anyone has a 1976 copy can you verify what it says on it? The film was Canadian and book says "Printed in Canada" so possibly it was only published there in which case the price will need a C added to it. --Username (talk) 09:18, 9 February 2024 (EST)

Riddle of the Exodus

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?185298; Not fiction, religious history book, https://openlibrary.org/works/OL8166080W/The_Riddle_of_the_Exodus?edition=key%3A/books/OL8566162M, probably should be deleted. --Username (talk) 11:30, 9 February 2024 (EST)

Deleted. I question if the author of the religious book is the same author as of the BattleTech books. I couldn't find anything on the religious author's sites that connect him to the BattleTech books. I will ping the active verifier for the BattleTech book to see if there is an author blurb. If not (or it indicates it is a different author), I will remove the the current author info from James D. Long. -- JLaTondre (talk) 12:31, 10 February 2024 (EST)
Philfreund has confirmed the BattleTech book provides no biographical information on the author. I have removed the author info from James D. Long as it is more than likely a different person. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:28, 11 February 2024 (EST)

Mutant Chronicles

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?250352; I replaced the cover; if anyone knows about the old one, whether it was an early one that was rejected or if it belongs to a different edition, a note about early art or a new record for the other edition if it exists would be good. --Username (talk) 20:09, 11 February 2024 (EST)

Lieutenant Teasdale R.O.N.

I need to make several changes to the pub records for Lieutenant Teasdale R.O.N.. The tp edition has a sole PV by the late Biomassbob but he somehow missed showing that Paula Goodlett is the co-author of the work. Amazon also shows the pub date for that edition as 2023-12-07, not 2023-12-02 as currently shown in the pub record. The 12-07 date makes more sense since all of the other self-published books by Gorg Hoff and Paula Goodlett have the ebook edition published the day prior to the tp edition. Any objection to my making changes? Phil (talk) 12:21, 12 February 2024 (EST)

Mistakes happen :) Go ahead - make sure the notes clarify where the date is coming from. And while you are there, we do not use "Independently published" as a publisher - so can you also fix that (author names are used when there is no publisher). I will sort out the other 2 we have under that publisher later today. Thanks for finding this one! :) Annie (talk) 13:44, 12 February 2024 (EST)
Done. I also corrected the title for the Interiorart maps record to match current standards. Phil (talk) 15:29, 12 February 2024 (EST)

Locus1 Secondary Verifications

Occasionally I come across pubs that have been SVd to Locus1 solely on the basis of their mention as the first edition of a later publication. The first one I encountered, as a very rookie editor, was this one: David Brin / Sundiver. I asked the SVer, Rtrace, about it and received this explanation. For the purposes of this thread I shall refer to these as "indirect listings".
The most recent one I have encountered is David Gerrold / Chess with a Dragon and it is this pub record that has prompted this thread because there is a clear contradiction between the SV to Locus1 and the pub note "Locus1 fails to list this pub (as of 2010-06-21)."
So my question is: should these indirect listings be allowed as SVs to Locus1? If I ruled the world I would not permit them because I don't think they conform to a general user's expectation of a Locus1 listing and they can cause confusion and inconsistencies as demonstrated by the Gerrold record. However, I do not feel strongly about this. I accept Ron's point that these indirect listings provide at least as much information as Clute/Nicholls and if the consensus is that they should be allowed then I can live quite happily with this.
However, if we do allow them then this Help page: Reference:Verification_Sources needs amendment. The matrix currently states that Locus1 provides "All" the information for fields such as Pages, Price and others but this is not true for the indirect listings. So either:
a) The relevant fields for Locus1 should be changed from "All" to "Some" (or maybe "Most").
or
b) A note should be added to the page explaining Locus1 indirect listings and clarifying that the values in the matrix for Locus1 only apply to full listings.
I prefer solution b).
Opinions please. Teallach (talk) 18:38, 15 February 2024 (EST)

An interesting point. So basically Locus1 has two types of records. One type covers editions published between 1984 and 2007 and includes publication details. The other type covers first editions (including editions published before 1984) and only lists their year and publisher. In an ideal world, we may want to create a separate Secondary Verification type for the latter and call it something like "Locus1-First Edition". Unfortunately, I am not sure it would be feasible since we have over 50,000 Locus1 verifications and separating them would be a very time-consuming project. If we decide not to do it, then I agree that we should update Reference:Verification_Sources to reflect the fact that not all Locus1-verified publication records can be expected to have publication level data.
As far as cases like David Gerrold's Chess with a Dragon go, I would reword Notes. Instead of saying "Locus1 fails to list this pub (as of 2010-06-21)", I would say something like "Locus1 doesn't have a detailed record for this edition, but multiple records for reprint editions refer to it as the first edition." Ahasuerus (talk) 12:48, 16 February 2024 (EST)
Yes, I realised when I started the thread that if we disallow the Locus1 indirect listings there could be a legacy issue of past records SVd to Locus1 that would be difficult to amend. This is often a problem when rules and standards are changed. So although in theory I would vote to disallow these cases, I accept it is not practical to do so. Consequently I am happy with leaving them as they are and updating Reference:Verification_Sources to reflect the fact that not all Locus1-verified publication records can be expected to have publication level data, which we both agree with.
I am working on David Gerrold / Chess with a Dragon and so will incorporate the change to the Locus1 pub note as you suggest. Teallach (talk) 17:08, 16 February 2024 (EST)
Hearing no objection, I have clarified the "Locus1" row of Reference:Verification Sources. Thanks for identifying this issue. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:12, 26 February 2024 (EST)
Thank you. Teallach (talk) 16:27, 2 March 2024 (EST)

Necronomicon in Sweden

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=d+bergho&type=Name; First name likely misspelled by PV (or magazine it appeared in) and essay is in second name's record with a much earlier date. --Username (talk) 23:47, 15 February 2024 (EST)

Garland Library of SF

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?8067; I made a couple of edits adding archived link, LCCN and cover image to Past Master when I noticed that there is 1 book in the series with a UK price and 1 without any price. So if anyone can fill in the missing one and add US one (moving UK to notes) for the other then everything will be uniform. --Username (talk) 09:44, 16 February 2024 (EST)

Lou J. Berger

The author has requested we change his canonical name from Lou J. Berger to "Lou J Berger" (no period after the "J"). See mod note here. Any objections? John Scifibones 15:32, 16 February 2024 (EST)

Checking Amazon.com's Look Inside, I see that the name was spelled "Lou J. Berger" in 2013-2014 and changed to "Lou J Berger" in 2015/2016. By now the majority of the stories use the "Lou J Berger" form of the name, so it should be our canonical name. We just need to make sure that we use the right form for the transitional (2015-2016) period. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:05, 16 February 2024 (EST)
Author attributions were reviewed and corrected resulting in compliance with the author's request. John Scifibones 15:16, 17 February 2024 (EST)

Locus on Microfilm

I recently added links to the handful of random print issues of Locus that are on Archive.org, one a very early issue and the others more recent, but I just stumbled on a huge cache of microfilmed 1973-2015 issues uploaded by MicrofilmIssueGenerator so I added a link, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5893289. Not sure if this is known about already but if not I'm sure it will come in handy here for research. --Username (talk) 19:39, 16 February 2024 (EST)

Server maintenance 2024-02-18 at 11am EST

The server will be down for maintenance later today (2024-02-18) between 11am and 11:10am EST. Ahasuerus (talk) 10:20, 18 February 2024 (EST)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:06, 18 February 2024 (EST)

Sword of the Samurai

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5894874; I have owned a copy since the 1980s and PV it here in 2022, copy uploaded to Archive.org last summer but not added until a few days ago, I think I got the right page count but if anyone disagrees feel free to tweak it a bit, you don't have to ask me. --Username (talk) 11:41, 18 February 2024 (EST)

I see a note in the UK edition's record here says [236] so I think they counted the illustration between the first 19 pages and the start of the novel itself. Should that count? --Username (talk) 11:44, 18 February 2024 (EST)
I would count it one way or the other, either as part of the introductory material (so, technically on [20]) or as part of the main material. A page number on that first page of main text would have been a useful guide.... I found an eBay listing of the Puffin edition that has some interior photographs. Not of the page in question, but the TOC and other leading material looks identical to what Archive.org shows for the edition you have. Extrapolating that to content that follows it suggests Reginald did count that illustration as part of the main material. Given the [236] there, what I will do is tweak your count to [236] and add a note about the illustration's appearance relative to the text on the surrounding pages. Just trying to save you an edit cycle; feel free to adjust it to be however you prefer -- I do not mean to insist on anything. --MartyD (talk) 12:07, 18 February 2024 (EST)
Sounds good, thanks. --Username (talk) 12:18, 18 February 2024 (EST)

Bibliographic impact of the 2023 Hugo Awards

The current pre-release cover of Samantha Mills's debut novel The Wings Upon Her Back says "Nebula and Hugo Award Winner". On 2024-02-17 Mills disavowed the award and announced that she would have "Hugo winner" removed from future editions of the book:

  • “Rabbit Test” unwins the Hugo: ... on Tuesday I’ll send a very awkward email to my agent and editor summarizing the situation ... and figure out the logistics of removing “Hugo winner” from the ebook and future printings. The first print run will be a limited edition novelty, I suppose? Jeez.

This may not be an isolated occurrence since, as Samantha Mills wrote (among other things):

  • On February 14, a report written by Jason Sanford and Chris M. Barkley was simultaneously released on the Genre Grapevine and File770. ... we also got a look at the validation list itself, aka the tables of frontrunner nominees being vetted for the final ballot, and a horrible pattern emerged, especially in the fiction categories: there were a whole lot of Chinese nominees in frontrunner positions who just… vanished, and never made it onto the final ballot. There were so many, in fact, that if I am reading this document correctly: not a single fiction winner (short story, novelette, novella, novel, or series) would have even been a finalist if those nominees hadn’t been taken off.
  • There’s an indicator of why in the apology letter from the admin who leaked the emails and validation tables: “We were told there was collusion in a Chinese publication that had published a nominations list, a slate as it were, and so those ballots were identified and eliminated.”

From our perspective, this means that we will need to:

  • Update the “Rabbit Test” Award record to indicate that the author disavowed the award, similar to how this award record explains that Judy-Lynn del Rey's posthumous "Best Professional Editor" award was refused by her husband Lester del Rey.
  • Keep an eye on The Wings Upon Her Back to make sure that the correct covers are used for the first and any subsequent editions of the novel.
  • Be on the lookout for possible other announcements of authors disavowing 2023 Hugo awards.
  • Occasionally check "Worldcon Intellectual Property" announcements. On January 30, 2024 they issued a statement censuring multiple people "for actions of the Hugo Administration Committee of the Chengdu Worldcon" and said that "There may be other actions taken or to be taken that are not in this announcement." If and when they make additional statements about the Hugos awarded at the 2023 Worldcon, we may need to update our records.

Ahasuerus (talk) 12:55, 19 February 2024 (EST)

Earlier today Adrian Tchaikovsky disavowed his 2023 Hugo award for Best Series on his Web site. The award record has been updated. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:56, 21 February 2024 (EST)
These notes are exactly the correct action for us, I think. If we had notes for an award year, it would probably be desirable to add something for the 2023 Hugos. Although, getting a properly neutral description of the controversy free of personal biases (and I have many in this instance), would be tricky. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
One of the challenges that the 2023 Hugos present is that it's still a developing story. What we knew 10 days ago is very different from what we know today. Perhaps we'll learn more in the future.
For example, back in late January I came across a re-post/translation of a Chinese fan's comments about the Hugos. The post stated that the fan had been involved in the Hugo process (committee member?) and that he or she had a conflict with Chinese members of the Hugo committee with various accusations flying back and forth. At the time I had trouble parsing the post, in part due to lacking context and in part due to the quality of the translation. In retrospect it may have been related to the following email sent by Dave McCarthy on June 7, 2023 at 6:18pm (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_QqmsxQkACoYcxSx2LVqbxD39-DJI_gS/view), which says:
  • Tomorrow I have a 4 hour meeting with my chinese counterparts to look at ballot detail and determine if any ballots are to be voided
Perhaps either this fan or other members of the 2023 Hugo committee may clarify matters at some point. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:33, 22 February 2024 (EST)
It would especially be useful to note that the nomination totals and the EPH points appear to be completely unreliable, since those are noted in each nomination award record. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
One thing that comes to mind is that we could change the way opening sentences are phrased. Instead of the current "1674 valid ballots cast, 944 valid ballots cast in category" we could say something like "According to the voting statistics released on 2024-01-20, there were 1674 valid ballots cast, 944 valid ballots cast in category". It's not much, but it would at least clarify which version of the stats our records use. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:20, 22 February 2024 (EST)
I've added your suggested text to the records in the Best Novel category. In addition to the ballot count at the head, I've also added it to the nomination numbers at the foot. I think it's more important there as that is where there is evidence of shenanigans. In any case, let me know if it looks good and I can update the remaining records or we tweak it if desired. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:26, 27 February 2024 (EST)
Everything looks good, thanks. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:40, 27 February 2024 (EST)
I recall that award year notes has been suggested before and there may be a feature request, though I suspect that how the award tables are structured may make this difficult. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
Yes, indeed. FR 1086, "Change the award year field to a drop-down list", says "Create a new record type for award years. We can call it something like "award year" or "award ceremony". Once we have it, we will be able to add notes to award years. Notes can be used to specify when the awards were announced, when and where they were given, eligibility rules changes, etc." Unfortunately, as you said, it would be fairly time-consuming to implement. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:12, 22 February 2024 (EST)
In any case, I do have one suggestion for the del Rey award record. We currently have the explanation of the non-acceptance of the award noted in the title field of what should be an untitled award. Perhaps we didn't have award level notes at the point that award was added. I feel that the verbiage in the title should be moved to notes and replaced with "untitled". --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
I agree. It's exactly as you said -- award records didn't have a Notes field back then. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:12, 22 February 2024 (EST)
I've updated this and expanded the comment as a note taking my queue from Judy-Lynn's Wikipedia article. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:26, 27 February 2024 (EST)
Thanks. I have hyper-linked Lester del Rey's name and clarified that he was Judy-Lynn's husband. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:40, 27 February 2024 (EST)

Kater-Bound

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?22308; On all of the web there seems to be only 1 mention of Borgo Press and Kater-Bound together, https://www.lawrenceperson.com/?p=22429, although it does get a handful of hits in a text search, https://archive.org/search?query=%22kater-bound%22+%22borgo%22&sin=TXT&sort=-addeddate. This Archive.org page, https://archive.org/search?query=compton+farewell+bliss&sort=-addeddate, shows 2 editions with one being Borgo but with price on front covered and Kater-Bound sticker on back. Could this be the mysterious Borgo HC mentioned in the book's record? Also, the note about artist is wrong because he's credited on copyright page and back cover, the latter of which can be seen in the cover image. TP PV doesn't respond much so I'm asking on this board. --Username (talk) 13:09, 19 February 2024 (EST)

The Archive.org copy is a library book, and Kater-Craft does library bindings. I believe it is not uncommon to have a retail hardcover edition and a library-binding hardcover edition of the same book. --MartyD (talk) 17:44, 19 February 2024 (EST)
Believe it or not, I have library hardcover versions of Ace Doubles. All should be listed in my opinion. MLB (talk) 01:00, 20 February 2024 (EST)

Miriam Allen de Ford

Per the Spaces in Names subsection of Template:PublicationFields:Author, Miriam Allen de Ford should be standardized as Miriam Allen deFord. However, we have a Miriam Allen de Ford alternate name which was recently edited so the notes copy the rules saying it should be standardized. Instead, I propose we merge the alternate name to the canonical name in accordance with the rules. As there are a number of verified pubs, I will point the verifiers to the this discussion, If there are any objections, then we should probably have a Rules and standards discussions. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:28, 19 February 2024 (EST)

I guess it would be like calling somebody named MacIntosh being called Mac Intosh. Still, I'll go with the majority. MLB (talk) 00:58, 20 February 2024 (EST)
No objection to merging, but I think the actual spelling of the name should be made clear in the notes. Linguist (talk) 04:06, 20 February 2024 (EST).
No objection, I had three pubs, two in Croatian language I already corrected, but I have also one in Serbian language. In Serbian language names are written as they are pronounced, in this case same as written. Should I change this one as well? This is publication in question: https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2277217 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Debolestis (talk • contribs) .

Ruben De Anda

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1476655; https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2552505; Can anyone find proof that these are the same artists? --Username (talk) 19:45, 20 February 2024 (EST)

I don't know. But The Galaxy Primes (Ace 1976) appears also to be signed by R. De Anda. Horzel (talk) 08:52, 23 February 2024 (EST)
Probably is but since last name is mostly covered it's hard to tell. PV Willem H. noted that it may be Rafael M. De Soto but I doubt it because he has no original cover credits on ISFDB after 1964 and this book is from 1976. There's a copy on Archive.org which I've added a link to in a PENDING edit. --Username (talk) 09:44, 23 February 2024 (EST)

Steve Miller: RIP

For those who may not have seen an announcement, Steve Miller, co-author of the Liaden Universe, et al., died on February 20, 2024 at his home in Maine. His wife, author Sharon Lee, posted this obituary. Phil (talk) 07:41, 22 February 2024 (EST)

I added photo from FantLab which is a little bigger and shows his face better than Fantastic Fiction's photo. --Username (talk) 17:42, 22 February 2024 (EST)

Last User Activity

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?895338; What does this mean exactly? There was a question of contacting this PV RedDragonBooks about something related to a mod note I made and checking their page the last answer they gave or contribution they made was in spring of 2022 but the activity at the bottom of the record linked above says a few days ago. --Username (talk) 09:03, 22 February 2024 (EST)

There are two databases: The wiki and the bibliographic database. What you see for User Contributions on their user/talk page is just their Wiki edits. What you see for Last User Activity in the verifiers' list is the date of their last activity in the bibliographic side -- the Wiki software does not know about that, only about the Wiki. That user did some verifications on 2024-02-18 but hasn't posted anything to the wiki in the past couple of years. --MartyD (talk) 13:56, 22 February 2024 (EST)
Just a quick note to clarify that the software that displays the Last User Activity date checks both the Wiki side and the database side. It then displays the latest date that it finds. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:36, 22 February 2024 (EST)

Ermengarde Fisk = Evelyn E. Smith?

One of my friends pointed me at issue #10 of the 'zine Oopsla, specifically page 13. The "SHORT STORIES" section says: 

 Third goes to another brand-new author, Evelyn E. Smith ... is better known to fandom as the pseudonymous authoress of the "New York Letter" column in Slant--yeah, that's right, she's Ermengarde Fiske.

As I don't know what the accuracy of fan writing was like nearly two decades before I was born, I don't know how reliable this info might be. Any objections to varianting these author records? ErsatzCulture (talk) 13:49, 23 February 2024 (EST)

We already have a pseudonym there: Evelyn Smythe (intentional corruption of Evelyn Smyth E.?) which I think is based exactly on the note you cited above. I am not sure if we have enough evidence to connect the two Evelyn E. Smith's though - while very very likely, the name is not very uncommon. Maybe add some notes to both accounts until we find a better proof that the two are one and the same? Annie (talk) 14:50, 23 February 2024 (EST)
Never mind, I looked at the fanzine itself now - you actually missed the smoking gun while quoting - that award over there is for a story that belongs to Evelyn E. Smith (Tea Tray in the Sky) - so yes, they are the same person. Connect them away. Annie (talk) 14:54, 23 February 2024 (EST)
This is now done. Had a bit of a headscratcher with Ermengarde Fiske having its own alternate names, but I think everything is now correct, with all the authors pointing at Evelyn E. Smith as the canonical, and all of the title records having parent titles with that author record. However I wouldn't say no if someone wants to double check that everything is now as it should be. Thanks! ErsatzCulture (talk) 13:44, 27 February 2024 (EST)

J. Watson

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?224483; What do you suggest is best to add to differ 1966 Thunderbirds artist from Leading Edge writer/artist? He's on Wikipedia so I'll add that link (as Jim Watson). --Username (talk) 19:48, 24 February 2024 (EST)

See Help:How_to_separate_two_authors_with_the_same_name for ideas. Looks like "James Watson (1960s)" would work here and might be more helpful than "(I)". The situation is quite similar to the Jame Cooper examples given in that bullet. In light of the disparity in volume between their bibliographies, I think you could treat the James Watson from the 1980s as "more prominent/widely known in the Spec-Fic world" and leave it with no embedded disambiguation. --MartyD (talk) 12:04, 25 February 2024 (EST)
OK, thanks. --Username (talk) 12:30, 25 February 2024 (EST)

Tem Title

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?67830; Archived link to recently uploaded Chrysalis 9 HC just added by me in a PENDING edit, PV doesn't respond much, PB has one or two active PV so if they can verify it's Hit-and-Run there, too, not Hit-and-Miss, title should be changed. I vaguely remember asking about this long ago after noticing title was different in Tem's online bibliography. --Username (talk) 15:32, 25 February 2024 (EST)

The Hole of the Pit

https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal/Archive/Archive53#Uncanny_Banquet_and_Leisure; Exactly a year-and-a-half ago I asked about Uncanny Banquet and noted the rare novel contained in it; a copy of the Oleander Press edition including the novel with a short story and a poem was recently added to Archive.org so I've added a link in a PENDING edit. Still waiting for a copy of that anthology to show up somewhere...anywhere. --Username (talk) 18:55, 25 February 2024 (EST)

Series sort order?

I was looking at a page for a series and couldn't figure out the basis for the order of the sub-series. First come the numbered sub-series, in numerical order. Then the 'loose' items in chronological order. Then come the unnumbered sub-series, which are neither alphabetical or chronological by any of their contained titles. Is there a particular order to them? ../Doug H (talk) 09:04, 28 February 2024 (EST)

The only order that the display software enforces is as you described above: all numbered sub-series are displayed first and the rest are displayed randomly. I think it would be fairly easy to display unnumbered sub-series alphabetically. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
(after edit conflict) A more thorough review discovered that Summary pages were already sorting unnumbered sub-series alphabetically. I have adjusted the software to do the same on Series pages. Thanks for identifying the problem! Ahasuerus (talk) 18:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
Since series tend to be written in order, displaying the unnumbered titles in chronological order may make more sense. Although, sub-series wouldn't have a date and extrapolating the date from the earliest contained title would be more complex. Perhaps, numbered items followed by unnumbered sub-series followed by everything else in chronological order. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:34, 28 February 2024 (EST)
Could you please clarify what you mean by "items" in this case? Series may contain both title records and sub-series records. They use different, unrelated, numbering systems. For example, a series may contain 3 titles numbered "0.5", "1" and "2", as well as two sub-series numbered "1" and "2". Ahasuerus (talk) 19:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
I intended items to mean both title records amd sub-series records, either of which may be numbered. What I was suggesting is that within a series (parent), each numbered item would display based on the numbering. In your example, there would be a conflict as there are both titles numbered "1" and "2" and sub-series numbered "1" and "2". Ideally, we would never assert that both a title and a sub-series should occur first in the parent series. Clearly, numbering only applies within the parent series. I believe that for numbered "items", I am not suggesting any changes to how things currently work. I had suggested a chronological sort for the remaining items based on your now corrected statement that they were displayed randomly. Given that we're already sorting alphabetically, it's probably fine to leave things as they are, unless others think a chronological sort would be preferable. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:13, 28 February 2024 (EST)

BattleTech Universe

The BattleTech Universe series and it's sub-series all list having an Issue Grid, which suggests they are Serials / Magazines. They look like books to me. Is it a mistake in the software or entry? Might the existence of one Serial in the series propagate? ../Doug H (talk) 09:12, 29 February 2024 (EST)

Yep - if there is one magazine series somewhere in the sub series inside of a bigger series, the whole set and any sunsets of it shows the grid links. It is how the software is built. Annie (talk) 10:00, 29 February 2024 (EST)
Good catch. Bug 842, "Extraneous 'View Issue Grid' links on series pages", has been created. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:15, 29 February 2024 (EST)

Database Backup

Can you please save the database with InnoDB utf8mb4 so accented and Chinese characters will show up correctly? As it now with MyISAM utf8, Иван Константинович Айвазовский shows up as ИванКонстантинович Айвазовский. It makes it hard to work with the database and makes it a lot larger than it has to be. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Catpoolfan (talk • contribs) .

For historical reasons -- the ISFDB project started in 1995 -- ISFDB tables use "latin1_swedish_ci". You can see it if you run "SELECT TABLE_CATALOG, TABLE_SCHEMA, TABLE_NAME, TABLE_COLLATION FROM INFORMATION_SCHEMA.TABLES" in MySQL. Non-Latin-1 Unicode characters are stored in the database as HTML entities. When you see "й" (i.e. "&#1081") displayed, that's because that's what's stored in the database.
There are plans to migrate from HTML entities to native Unicode, but it will be a major project with a number of dependencies. There is no ETA at this time. Ahasuerus (talk) 10:42, 1 March 2024 (EST)

I Stole You

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisheryear.cgi?60942+2017; A copy of Tripping... was recently uploaded so I added a link and the stories' numbers, there's also supposedly a copy of Ringman's collection but when I saw the red hardcover I knew that couldn't be right and it wasn't; it's a copy of some old romance novel by Jane Aiken Hodge. I checked all the usual sites but can't get contents page of TP so if anyone can or owns a copy fill in the page numbers if you wish. --Username (talk) 17:40, 1 March 2024 (EST)

Mandarin

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5905095; Is anyone familiar with Mandarin paperbacks who can say why ISBN on back cover doesn't match any other Mandarin PB on ISFDB which (almost) all start with 0-7493? This book's ISBN, 0-09, seems to have been used by Cresset per online searching but there is no mention of them anywhere in it; a couple of Cresset Editions books on ISFDB do have an ISBN which starts with that. --Username (talk) 13:14, 2 March 2024 (EST)

Donkerste Dag

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5905146; Nico Richter has 1 credit on ISFDB for a German Neil Gaiman edition but here he's credited for design. Sheila Metzner is a famed artist and I don't know what Ortikol is so if anyone thinks any of them should be entered as cover artist they can do that. --Username (talk) 14:12, 2 March 2024 (EST)

Shadow Regions

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295434; The woman who ran the publisher whose imprint put out this anthology, Tammy Perron, apparently was a crook who didn't pay most of the authors or even give some of them copies which is detailed in the link from Absolute Write that I added some time ago. In September 2023 some mysterious person uploaded a copy on Archive.org and it was finally added a few weeks ago (I stumbled on it completely by accident) so I've added a link in a PENDING edit along with the price and the stories' numbers. Maybe it was one of the authors using their own copy because this seems a very rare book with WorldCat not finding any copies; there's only 1 sad review on Goodreads where one of the authors crows about having a story in it...little did he know. According to ISFDB only 3 of the 20 stories have been reprinted since it came out nearly two decades ago so if anyone was interested in reading it you should do so because you never know if old Tammy may crawl out of the woodwork to have it taken down. --Username (talk) 18:55, 2 March 2024 (EST)

Adam L. G. Nevill canonical name

I think it is time to swap the canonical name here to Adam L. G. Nevill. Any objections? Annie (talk) 15:18, 4 March 2024 (EST)

We have 8 book-length works as by Adam Nevill and 8 book titles as by Adam L. G. Nevill. All books published over the last 5 years have appeared exclusively as by "Adam L. G. Nevill". SHORTFICTION: 8 as by "Adam Nevill" and 27 as by "Adam L. G. Nevill".
Given the numbers and the timeline, I think it's fair to say that "Adam L. G. Nevill" is the most recognizable form of his name within the genre as of 2024. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:19, 4 March 2024 (EST)

The Under-People

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3046564; https://archive.org/search?query=the-under-people&sort=-addeddate; No reason for this to be here, it's one of dozens of junk science "non-fiction" books by Norman/Steiger published back in the day. I think it should be deleted. --Username (talk) 23:52, 4 March 2024 (EST)

Collection contents question

When adding contents to a collection which is authored using a variant name, if there is no indication to the contrary, should all the content titles be attributed to the variant author name and then be made a variant of the canonical author name titles if they do not exist? Example: The Witching Hour. The collection author is James Gunn. The copyright page shows the content copyrights as by James Gunn. The included content titles only exist as by the canonical name James E. Gunn. Should these be changed to being authored by James Gunn and then made into variants? Phil (talk) 09:28, 5 March 2024 (EST)

Yes. Remove the three fiction titles, add the three new titles and variant to the canonicals. John Scifibones 09:57, 5 March 2024 (EST)
Done. Thanks.Phil (talk) 11:05, 5 March 2024 (EST)

Hautala Covers

I was entering edits for Rick Hautala books, found Jacobus signature on Moon Walker so Tim Jacobus was entered as the artist; Little Brothers, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?20465, has a name or initials on the lower right, can anyone find out who that is? --Username (talk) 10:45, 5 March 2024 (EST)

ISFDB Server downtime -- 2024-03-06 at 6pm

The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance on 2024-03-06 between 6:00pm and 6:15pm EST. Both the database and the Wiki will be unavailable. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:13, 6 March 2024 (EST)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:05, 6 March 2024 (EST)

Simulacrum

Tonight I accidentally ended up on the archived SpecFicWorld site which used to be a major hub of speculative fiction but seems to have entirely disappeared from the modern web (whatever you do, don't type specficworld.com on Google and click the link whose description is "Daftar Situs Agen Judi Slot Online Terpercaya Resmi 2023"; that will NOT lead you to what you're looking for). Only issue #9 of Simulacrum, edited and published by the guy who ran the site, Doyle Eldon Wilmoth, Jr., has an archived PDF link but while searching, as I usually do, for random text from an archived story on Google to try and find out if there are any modern sites that still include it I got one hit, the late Tanith Lee's site daughterofthenight.com, because that issue included a reprint of a story by her from Interzone Magazine. That led me to this, https://archive.org/details/@zatoichi01?query=simulacrum&sort=title, which, according to Galactic Central, is the entire 14-issue run. I rarely enter magazines but any self-moderators who don't have to wait for approval can probably do these quickly without much trouble since the contents are a mixture of reprints which will need importing and originals (or at least they're not on this site). There are many well-known authors and artists included. --Username (talk) 23:59, 7 March 2024 (EST)

I'll take a look at it and see what I can do. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:48, 8 March 2024 (EST)
I have through issue 10 entered. I'll finish up with the remaining four later. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:35, 8 March 2024 (EST)
I've entered all 14 issues now. You can see them here. I did not combine the years into editor series because there are only 14 issues so leaving them all separate makes it easier to get to them (one less click-through). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:32, 12 March 2024 (EDT)

Neglected moderation

Last time I changed something in ISFDB it took days to get a single non-controversial change accepted with hundreds of pending changes. Now it takes weeks with thousands of pending changes. When looking a the recent changes I see lots of self acceptance and accepted automatic changes, but only little moderator activity.

Remembering that it takes at least 4 or 5 rounds to add all information for a translated book that amounts to waiting multiple months for a single book.

If you don't want contributors anymore then say so clearly! ATM I'd wonder if you find people sticking with ISFDB for a longer time with that situation.

To give you an indication how this should go: I added a new word to Wiktionary, it took 4 minutes for first reaction and 1:15 to reach the final entry. --Stoecker (talk) 16:31, 8 March 2024 (EST)

Longer approval times have definitely been a problem lately. Currently we have 1976 pending submissions, 1137 of them by User:Username (many are straightforward additions of archive.org links to publication records), 124 by User:Fixer (a robot account) and the remaining 715 are by other editors.
That said, the ISFDB editing process is very different from what Wikipedia and its offshoot projects use. The latter are much easier to edit, but the quality of the end product varies tremendously. I wrote/rewrote dozens of Wikipedia articles in the mid-2000s, but eventually concluded that trying to keep articles accurate and coherent was going to be prohibitively time-consuming. I occasionally peek to see what has happened to them and their current state is pretty bad. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensheviks is full of confused nonsense.
We added the ability to self-approve a few years ago and we are slowly expanding the number of editors who can do so. Hopefully it will help matters going forward. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:56, 8 March 2024 (EST)
Well, my request to do so was simply ignored. --Stoecker (talk) 10:10, 16 March 2024 (EDT)
Nominations require support from other editors/moderators before they can be approved. If a nomination doesn't gain enough support, it is not approved. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:01, 16 March 2024 (EDT)
Which is an endless loop. Because moderators don't care I want self-moderation. But for that I need moderators to care which they don't. An unreachable goal. --Stoecker (talk) 10:05, 23 March 2024 (EDT)

Heide Oberheide

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?127989; I left a PV a note telling them that a T. Canty credit for Parke Godwin's novel Beloved Exile was actually by Oberheide so that will need fixing but another problem I found is that her page at The Paperback Palette says she was born in Canada in 1957, both very different than what ISFDB says. So does anyone know what the real info is? --Username (talk) 22:48, 9 March 2024 (EST)

Found this and this, which both agree on 1943 and Germany and have enough differences that neither seems to be the source for the other. They both strike me as fairly authoritative, especially that first one. --MartyD (talk) 11:23, 10 March 2024 (EDT)

Tales of Terror

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?291626; I added a link to the back cover image on Bookscans in a PENDING edit and noticed there are some copies on eBay which show the first page, 5, with "The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar" as a title, which means this shouldn't really be a novel but rather a collection of Poe stories adapted by Sudak. Does anyone own a copy who can verify the page numbers of the other stories so they can all be entered? --Username (talk) 12:13, 13 March 2024 (EDT)

Cover artist data entry rules updated

Please note that the "Artist" section of Template:PublicationFields:CoverArt has been updated to reflect current practices. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:02, 14 March 2024 (EDT)

The Message

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1471825; Obscure author and publisher but not obscure enough that it didn't get a Chinese translation, https://archive.org/search?query=brockman-robin&sort=-addeddate, in case anyone fluent wants to enter that; just don't title it The MASSAGE like the uploader did. --Username (talk) 18:37, 14 March 2024 (EDT)

YouTube audiobooks in or out?

I've placed this submission on hold because I'm unsure if YouTube audiobooks should be included here since they are generally not downloadable (instead being streamed). The rules include audiobooks, but also exclude "[w]orks published in a web-based publication and available exclusively as a Web page" (which is pretty much what a YouTube video is), and they say nothing about podcasts. Thoughts? Should this be a Rules and standards discussion? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:42, 20 March 2024 (EDT)

They are out under the exclusion as they are not downloadable. However we need to extend the Audio-book section of the inclusion section to match the ebooks/electronic publication one above it a bit - especially around podcasts which are not considered magazines for example. So maybe starting a discussion to clarify what audio-materials we want to index is the best choice (while keeping that one on hold until we decide what we want to do) :). Annie (talk) 15:09, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
Okay, moved it over there. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:33, 20 March 2024 (EDT)

Barcodes with prices hiding in plain sight

A lot of printed books have prices on their back covers hiding in plain sight. If you look at a barcode on the back cover, next to the ISBN, usually over the smaller barcode next to the ISBN one, there is a number sequence - for example 51595 or 51699. That means $15.95 / $16.99 (5 is the code for $, the rest is the price). The first example is from a book I pulled from my shelf (not genre), the second is from an Amazon book. As back covers are very often visible in Amazon (separately or as part of Look Inside), that may help with adding prices (with an appropriate note) even when Amazon and other retailer have their own ideas on what the price may be (or at the very least it can serve as a confirmation for the Amazon price). It is not there for all books (90000 is a very common code up there) but for the books that have it, it is as good as the old printed prices.

I propose to add this tidbit of information to the Price field help. Meanwhile, I am leaving it here for information :) Annie (talk) 17:21, 20 March 2024 (EDT)

Good idea to add this to the Help. I have sometimes used this for prices. You might like to expand the note to explain other currencies. The smaller 5 digit barcode is the supplementary section of the barcode and contains a EAN-5 code. The first of the five digits is a currency code. If the first digit is 9, that means the supplementary section does not contain price information. It's explained in this Wikipedia article. Teallach (talk) 18:28, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
Yep - we should add all the codes when we are adding the note to the help page. Thanks for the link to the Wiki page - I knew it was there, I did not think to look it up earlier today :) Annie (talk) 18:41, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
I agree that adding a section about EAN-5 codes to Template:PublicationFields:Price would be useful. We could list the commonly used first digits:
  • 0 and 1 -- UK
  • 3 - Australia
  • 4 - New Zealand
  • 5 - US
  • 6 - Canada
and explain special pseudo-price values, i.e. that "9999" means "100.00 or more" while "90000" means "no price given". We could then link to the Wikipedia article or an industry Web page for other scenarios. Ahasuerus (talk) 19:06, 20 March 2024 (EDT)

Webzines to include?

Hello. I have two new pub submissions on hold as they pertain to new webzine entries. Do we want to include these?

Looking through the contents, I say we can include those. Not sure how long-lived these are going to be though... Comments/suggestions from other editors & moderators whether to include or not? (didn't look for past discussion where webzine inclusions were debated...) MagicUnk (talk) 15:35, 21 March 2024 (EDT)

Both produce issues and both are genre -zines. So they are eligible under the "Webzines, which are defined as online periodicals with distinct issues (note that online periodicals without distinct issues are not considered webzines)." rule. How long they survive is irrelevant - even if they produce a single issue, they are in. However, these records will need some massaging post approval :) Annie (talk) 15:41, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
Thought so. The help text says to post and query the editor community - we may want to update that and instead clarify that if a webzine has distinct issues, it is in by default? MagicUnk (talk) 16:09, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
Probably an oversight (we forgot it was there?) after we changed the ROA awhile back to include these. Which of the help pages?
PS: Note that awhile back we even dropped the requirement for the webzine to be genre allowing non-genre ones to be added as any other non-genre periodical (with only genre contents indexed). So yep - a webzine with issues is always in under the genre magazine rules or the non-genre periodical ones. Annie (talk) 16:22, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
Here - see webzine in that section. MagicUnk (talk) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
Ah, the one place I did not look at. :) Yep - that needs an update. I will start a discussion so we can get the language crafted. Annie (talk) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
Here we go - the proposed new language. Annie (talk) 11:26, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
Rules of Acquisition has it as you mention above - we may want to add non-genre periodicals role there explicitly. MagicUnk (talk) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
We do not have them called out in the print periodicals section either but if you think we should clarify that across the board, I won't object. Let's finish the audio-formats discussion we are currently having about changes in the same section of the ROA over in R&S and then I will initiate a discussion about this. Annie (talk) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
As an aside, I must say that I couldn't find the ROA immediately - I think it is an important section of the rules. Shouldn't we be adding a link on the main help page? MagicUnk (talk) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I know to look under Policy but you are right, it needs to be a lot more visible here - either as a sublink under the ISFDB Policy link or on its own in the same section. Annie (talk) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I've added a specific link to it on Help:Contents, which is found at the top of most help pages. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:18, 22 March 2024 (EDT)

ISFDB:Verification requests

The ISFDB:Verification requests board is not used much anymore. It seems ISFDB:Help desk and this board have pretty much supplanted it. Do we want to discontinue it? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:17, 22 March 2024 (EDT)

How about we can turn it into a broader board instead: "Assistance needed/Project Assistance Required/Something along these lines" for example - when an editor starts a project and notices other things that need adding/fixing or finds a source that may be useful and is unable/unwilling to work through it, they can request assistance there. Looking at CS, about half of the posts there in the last couple of years are from that nature and they choke the actual discussion threads and make it very hard for people to notice that something was posted in the discussions. It will be the counter-part of the Help Desk - come to the Help Desk if you want help getting the work done and learning how to do it; come to this board to post a project that needs work but you cannot/don't want to work on. Annie (talk) 14:59, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I'd be fine with that. I agree this board has gotten rather full lately, making it hard to keep track of things. So maybe change the title to ISFDB:Assistance requests or something? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:11, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I like the idea. "Assistance requests" may be a bit too narrow for what we are trying to define, but it's the closest that I can think of at the moment. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:46, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I like "Assistance Requests". If we ever come up with a better name, we can rename and forward. And we have the text under it to add a sentence that describes the scope better. Annie (talk) 15:53, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
"Help Wanted" ? ../Doug H (talk) 09:47, 23 March 2024 (EDT)
I think that there is potential for confusion between "Help desk" and "Help Wanted". Ideally, whatever name we come up with should clearly differentiate between the two boards. Ahasuerus (talk) 10:08, 23 March 2024 (EDT)
Maybe "Research Requests" or "Research Assistance"? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:45, 24 March 2024 (EDT)
I like "Research Assistance". Ahasuerus (talk) 15:13, 24 March 2024 (EDT)

(unindent) Are there any objections to changing ISFDB:Verification requests to Research Assistance? Ahasuerus (talk) 17:12, 4 April 2024 (EDT)

I'm okay with that. MagicUnk (talk) 06:10, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
If there are no objections, I will ask Nihonjoe to make the change tomorrow. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:50, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
De we want it to be ISFDB:Research Assistance to Research Assistance? The other can be a redirect. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:54, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
Probably ISFDB:Research Assistance in order to stay consistent with the majority of other "major" pages. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:05, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
Since there are no objections, please feel free to go ahead and move ISFDB:Verification requests to ISFDB:Research Assistance when you get a chance. Ahasuerus (talk) 13:45, 6 April 2024 (EDT)
Moved! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:31, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
Thanks! I have updated the main Wiki page and everything looks good. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:37, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
The Description up in the panel at the top of all the community boards still say "Help with bibliographic, image credit, and other questions which require a physical check of the work in question.". Annie (talk) 11:49, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
Updated, thanks! The new wording is "Help with bibliographic projects", which is a bit bland and non-specific, but I couldn't think of a better way to summarize the purpose of the new board. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:49, 8 April 2024 (EDT)

Jim/James Burns

I just added a link and did a few other things for the 33rd YBSF edition, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2012677, and searched for others with James Burns as cover artist; only 34th came up, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2209443, but as can be seen PV of TP and HC entered it differently. So maybe consensus about which is "better" should be reached and credits merged. --Username (talk) 18:45, 27 March 2024 (EDT)

Lovecraft Collaborations Book

I was starting to add the audio book edition of this title and discovered that publisher has provided a copy of the pdf version of the book. While we don't have a record for the pdf (it has a different ISBN than the eBook), there are several discrepancies between it and our records. I also have questions other questions about how this title is reflected and while none of the publications are primarily verified, there have been several editors who have touched these records. I thought I'd reach out for comments before proceeding with changes.

  1. We have the title as an ANTHOLOGY and list both the editor and Lovecraft. All the stories are credited to Lovecraft with various co-authors. Personally, I feel that these sorts of collection of collaborations are better typed as COLLECTION as was done with this title.
  2. The title page lists the credits as "By H.P. Lovecraft" over "Edited and Annotated by Finn J.D. John" in smaller type. We have both names in the author field. Since we have this as an ANTHOLOGY, this labels them both as "Editors". Lovecraft clearly didn't edit this book. As I feel this should be listed as a COLLECTION, I also feel that only Lovecraft should be listed in the author field. If the consensus is that it's an ANTHOLOGY, then we only list John.
  3. The stories are listed with both Lovecraft and his co-author on their title pages, whereas we have them all listed by the collaborating author alone. So I intend to swap out which variant of these titles is included. I don't thin this is controversial.
  4. There is a short essay before each section giving biographical details of each co-author. I intend to add these. While not signed, I think we can safely attribute them to John by virtue of his annotation credit.
  5. The PDF lists 5 different formats each with their own ISBN including the "Interactive PDF". Should we add the PDF as a separate title record, or should the PDF ISBN be added in the notes for the ebook edition? I'll also note, that my understanding is that we do list page numbers for pdfs whereas we do not for ebooks.
  6. I'm fairly comfortable that these changes should apply to the 2018 publications based on the 2018 pdf. I'm less certain whether I should make changes to the 2017 edition, or the 2019 omnibus, i.e should we assume the story credits and biographical essays are present in the other editions not listed in the pdf?
  7. I assume adding a note about the PDF being included with the audio book is sufficient rather than duplicating the contents showing the story exists twice (audio and text).

I'd appreciate other's thoughts on these questions. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:29, 28 March 2024 (EDT)

My mild opinion is that both this and the example you cited should be ANTHOLOGY. They are different from the case where most of the stories are written by Lovecraft alone, with one or two written by him and someone else. While both are Locvecraft-centric, they are primarily showcasing the work of a wide variety of authors. I agree with everything else in your list. --MartyD (talk) 19:55, 31 March 2024 (EDT)
I'm afraid I would still prefer these as COLLECTIONs. If we were to convert them to ANTHOLOGY, we would need to list the editor as the sole author which would move these collections out of Lovecraft's bibliography. I had only cited one example, but there are many similar collections, many of which are verified. For example, see which collections containing the story The Green Meadow. It is contained in two true anthologies. Aside from the 4 editions of the title we're discussing, there is but one other {{P|848648|publication} typed as a ANTHOLOGY. All other publications were entered as COLLECTION or OMNIBUS. In some of these cases, we don't necessarily have the editor and would likely need to move these titles to the uncredited bibliography page instead of Lovecraft's. Beyond the Wall of Sleep is another interesting example. There about 10 "collaborations" in this collection which is a minority, but it is more than one or two stories. If we decide to type these sorts of books as ANTHOLOGY, where would we draw that line? My last point is that it appears to me that these books are published to appear as Lovecraft collections with his name listed more prominently than any editors (if they are listed at all). If we are to reclassify these publication, I'd like to hear from some of the other verifiers. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:23, 1 April 2024 (EDT)
Since there have been no further responses to this, and the one objection was "mild", I'm going to proceed with these changes. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 12:34, 13 April 2024 (EDT)

"Publication Title-Reference Title Mismatches" enhanced

As per the recent Rules and Standards discussion, the cleanup report "Publication Title-Reference Title Mismatches" has been enhanced to require an exact match between publication titles and their reference title records' titles. New data will become available tomorrow morning.

We are looking at around 10,000 mismatches, so the cleanup effort will be significant, especially considering the fact that many affected publication records have been primary-verified. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:07, 4 April 2024 (EDT)

Canonical name change Charles Eugene Anderson from Chuck Anderson

Any objections to making Charles Eugene Anderson the canonical name and Chuck Anderson the alternate?

  • 17 titles credited to Charles Eugene Anderson.
  • 09 titles credited to Chuck Anderson.
  • 01 title has publications credited to each.

Thanks, John Scifibones 07:51, 5 April 2024 (EDT)

Go ahead, obvious case where the switch can/need to happen MagicUnk (talk) 09:28, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
Hearing no objections, done. John Scifibones 18:45, 9 April 2024 (EDT)

David (B.) Mattingly

Looking through the works credited to Mattingly, it seems to me that "David Mattingly" is the most common (by far), and has been for a long time. There are so many entries, though, this opinion is based only on quickly scanning through the list. Is there a way to get a count of each through database queries? I don't think any of the other aliases are used in a significant amount. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:58, 5 April 2024 (EDT)

Just with search and a browser search: 510 with the name David Mattingly; 747 under the canonical; 198 of these 747 of them are "only as by David Mattingly". Just based on that, how we record the names from secondary sources for artists and the fact that the new ones are always without the B. when we get access to the book, I would say it is time to flip the names. I am not volunteering to do it though. :) Annie (talk) 18:58, 5 April 2024 (EDT)

(after edit conflict)

The easiest way that I can think of is to run a few Advanced Title Searches using "Author's Name is exactly David Mattingly". Make sure to click "Get Count" instead of "Get Results". Here are the results that I see:
  • David B. Mattingly: 747
  • David Mattingly: 510
  • Dave Mattingly: 12
  • D. B. Mattingly: 7
  • Dave Maddingly: 1
  • D. Matingly: 1
  • Mattingly: 2
  • David Burroughs Mattingly: 1
Since David B. Mattingly is the current canonical name, it's over-represented. Every "David Mattingly" COVERART/INTERIORART title has a "David B. Mattingly" parent title, but only some of the latter have actual publications associated with them. Firefox tells me that the Summary Bibliography page has:
  • 79 instances of "also appeared"
  • 8 instances of "also as"
  • 132 instances of "only appeared"
  • 207 instances of "only as"
What this means is that 339 canonical titles have only appeared under an alternate name. Another 87 have been credited at least 2 different ways. 339+87-12-7-1-1-2 is 403, which, unless I am missing something, gives us a rough count. I'd need to run database queries to get a better idea, but it looks like "David Mattingly" is slightly ahead of "David B. Mattingly".
P.S. Perhaps what we need is a new menu options to generate this kind of data on demand. Ahasuerus (talk) 19:03, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
That would be cool. Another cool thing would be if we could figure out a way to programatically automate the process of changing canonical names (maybe have a side menu link that appears whenever viewing an author entry). The link would take you to a page where you'd enter the current author ID and the target author ID. We'd have to account for variants on the author name, title variants, and translations (and probably a lot of other things that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head). For situations like this, it would save tons of time in the long run. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:37, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
This functionality has been requested a couple of times. Unfortunately, it would be very difficult to implement in a way that would guarantee completeness and accuracy. Not only would the software need to change the way VTs and Alternate Names are configured, but it would also need to change dates (for some titles) and Notes.
Perhaps we could implement something less ambitious but still useful. For example, "Undo all Variants for This Author"? Ahasuerus (talk) 14:22, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
Yeah, it's definitely very complex. I like the "Undo all Variants for This Author" idea, though. What about a "swap canonical authors" option on individual titles? That would be a lot less complex and allow for easier catching of potential issues. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:48, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
I don't see the benefit of an "Undo all Variants for This Author" tool. A variant title only needs to be broken if both the canonical title and the variant tiles have publications attributed. If all the publication(s) are associated with the variant title, a simple merge is the best option. Not only does it save a step by not having to delete the old canonical, but it saves all the information. Some data is only stored in the "parent title", plus any edit history. John Scifibones 15:38, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
I'm slowly working through all of them. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:42, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
I have completed moving all the records to David Mattingly. I think someone else was moving them, too, so thanks to them, too. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:32, 22 April 2024 (EDT)
Joe, thanks for sorting this out. I noticed Zapp was helping you. John Scifibones 19:38, 22 April 2024 (EDT)

Server downtime -- 2024-04-06 at 2pm

The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance between 2:00pm and 2:10pm. Both the database side and the Wiki side will be unavailable. Ahasuerus (talk) 13:28, 6 April 2024 (EDT)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:05, 6 April 2024 (EDT)

The Prequel Trilogy

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934500; I have a question about the publisher of this 2007 Star Wars omnibus; there is no mention of Ballantine in the book so it should be similar to the last one on this list, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=del+rey&type=Publisher, but without the SFBC. Should I change publisher to LucasBooks / Del Rey? --Username (talk) 11:30, 7 April 2024 (EDT)

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934540; I changed publisher on this one since they were still with Ballantine in 2000. --Username (talk) 12:22, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934546; Another change from 2005 when they were still together. I don't see any cover artist credited that someone entered here or any sign of the excerpt mentioned on the book's copyright page. EDIT: One of the earlier editions has a note here saying they got artist from his site. --Username (talk) 12:31, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934585; Another one from 2006; this one actually has a PV so I'll leave them a message. --Username (talk) 13:12, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
And a final one, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934586, 2005 HC, PV is gone so no need for a note. --Username (talk) 13:18, 7 April 2024 (EDT)

Semaphore

https://www.lulu.com/fr/search?contributor=Marie+Hodgkinson; While adding PDF story links from Tartarus Press at their old freepages.pavilion.net site the last one I linked was a story by Rebecca Lloyd that was entered here as original to her 2014 collection but was actually published in 2007 in a magazine called Semaphore, no issues of which are on ISFDB, but I found that Lulu page above so anyone who likes entering magazines can add a lot from that. The editor has a page here, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?143960. --Username (talk) 13:41, 9 April 2024 (EDT)

https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/semaphoremagazine.com; PDF of some (all?) issues at this site. --Username (talk) 13:50, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
Looks like it has archived PDFs of all but the last issue (issue 15) from June 2011. I'll work on these. The first issue is now here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:32, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
Okay, I think they're all entered (15 issues in total). I also found a couple anthologies collecting the stories and poems voted best by readers of the magazine. I don't know if there were more than the two anthologies. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:33, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
Excellent. Only thing I think you forgot is June 2008's cover artist. --Username (talk) 14:07, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
Fixed! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:11, 10 April 2024 (EDT)

David Ireland

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?3106; I just made edits adding the Allen Lane HC of City of Women and adding a link to Mortal Fire where the 1982 short story is from and noticed that the Wiki page makes no mention of any art so I think the famed Australian novelist and the artist are 2 different people. --Username (talk) 10:28, 11 April 2024 (EDT)

Canonical name change Jody A. Lee from Jody Lee

The artist's website and SFE use Jody A. Lee. While the majority of her early work was credited to 'Jody Lee', the shift to 'Jody A. Lee' is clear. Here are the current statistics.

  • 111 titles credited to Jody A. Lee.
  • 73 titles credited to Jody Lee.
  • 26 titles hasve publications credited to each.

Are there any objections to making Jody A. Lee the canonical name and Jody Lee the alternate? John Scifibones 14:24, 11 April 2024 (EDT)

Sounds good to me. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:41, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
No objections here. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:47, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
Hearing no objections, done. John Scifibones 17:47, 15 April 2024 (EDT)
https://ixgallery.com/artists/jodylee/; Here's her photo in case someone wants to upload it to the wiki. --Username (talk) 17:58, 15 April 2024 (EDT)
✓Done! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:28, 17 April 2024 (EDT)

ISBN hyphenation changed

As I am sure most of you know, different publishers' ISBNs are hyphenated differently. Possible permutations include:

  • 978-1-64973-127-2
  • 978-1-9821-9317-1
  • 979-8-200-29585-2
  • 979-10-281-0150-3
  • 979-8-9856919-6-2

"The International ISBN Agency" maintains a list of rules which determine in which positions hyphens are supposed to appear. Almost all publishers follow them, although there have been some exceptions, notably Tor prior to 2007.

When ISFDB 2.0 was developed in 2004-2006, the rules -- as they existed back then -- were manually incorporated in the ISFDB software. What we didn't realize at the time was how complex the rules would become over the course of the following 20 years. As the number of publishers (and self-publishers) exploded, the International ISBN Agency had to create more and more rules to accommodate the growth and the ISBN handling part of the ISFDB software, which was last updated in 2010, fell hopelessly behind. The result was that many ISBNs were hyphenated incorrectly when displayed on ISFDB pages.

Earlier today I deployed a fairly big patch which changed the way the ISFDB software determines where hyphens are displayed. We now follow the International ISBN Agency's current rules to the letter. There is also a way to update our rules programmatically whenever the Agency rolls out new rules. I expect that we will be doing it a few times a year, which will let us stay more or less in sync with the Agency. (We also have special exceptions for Tor and the other 2 publishers which didn't follow the rules prior to 2007.)

As always, if you come across any issues with this software change, please let me know. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:07, 16 April 2024 (EDT)

Thanks for all your hard work behind the scenes on stuff like this. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:03, 16 April 2024 (EDT)
To quote Damon Knight, I am here to serve man! :-) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ahasuerus (talk • contribs) .

Publication Title Without a Related Title Record

I am about to create a new pub record under That Hideous Strength by C. S. Lewis. There is a subtitle on the title page so the full, correct publication title is: That Hideous Strength: A Modern Fairy-Tale for Grown-Ups. Looking at the title record I see there are five publications (three of which have been PVd) with this subtitle. However, they do not have a related title record "That Hideous Strength: A Modern Fairy-Tale for Grown-Ups" and consequently there is no varianting. Is this correct and if so why? Teallach (talk) 18:42, 17 April 2024 (EDT)

It is not correct. The publication title should match the reference title. This report highlights 1000 exceptions each day (I don't know the selection algorithm). First determine, subtitle or no subtitle, which should be the canonical? It's also a good idea to review the publications and make sure they are recorded correctly. Whichever you determine, it will be a multi-step edit. Ask if you have questions. If I'm online, ping me and I'll approve as you submit. John Scifibones 20:14, 17 April 2024 (EDT)
You have confirmed my suspicions. The cleanup report to which you refer does not include "That Hideous Strength" so I guess it's because it is limited to 1000 records. I'm happy to clean up this title. I'm satisfied that "That Hideous Strength" (without subtitle) is the more appropriate canonical title. I have inspected the five pub records with the subtitle and each looks internally consistent. Three of these have PVs. Do I need to consult with PVs or can this sort of housekeeping be performed without PVs' consent? Teallach (talk) 12:42, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
It's not necessary to contact the PV's. You're merely correcting the reference title. I know you intend to perform all the steps and will indicate such in the note to moderator. I noticed this title wasn't on the report. Perhaps Ahasuerus will chime in and explain the algorithm determining which titles to report. John Scifibones 15:45, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
First step submitted: Unmerge titles. Teallach (talk) 16:26, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
Approved, John Scifibones 16:33, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
Step 2 submitted: merge the 5 reference titles of the subtitled version. Teallach (talk) 17:12, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
Approved, John Scifibones 17:17, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
Step 3 submitted: make subtitled version a variant of canonical title.
Think that's it for the pubs but I can see there's more work to do:
A) These two pubs: Macmillan 1966 and Macmillan 1977 have the variant title but the same canonical coverart title records. So I'm pretty sure these need to be changed. The only way I can see to do this involves five more edits:
Step 4) edit one of the pubs (1966, say) and create a second coverart record under the variant title
Step 5) variant the coverart record
Step 6) import the variant coverart record to the 1977 pub
Step 7) remove the canonical coverart record from the 1966 pub
Step 8) remove the canonical coverart record from the 1977 pub
Is there a more efficient way to do this?
B) Those same two pubs contain an essay Preface (That Hideous Strength) which has a disambiguator under the canonical title. Does the disambiguator have to be changed to the variant title. I'm unsure about this because the phrase is only a disambiguator; it's not actually part of the title of the essay. Can you please advise.
My goodness, this is long-winded! Teallach (talk) 18:11, 18 April 2024 (EDT)

(unindent)
Submit two edits for each pub. (All four at once)

  • Submission 1 - Add the new variant titles, COVERART and preface.
  • Submission 2 - Remove the canonicals.

Since these submissions will generate change notices, reference this conversation in the note to moderator. After I approve all four, I'll perform the two merges. You will just need to link the variants. John Scifibones 18:48, 18 April 2024 (EDT)

Yes, I see where you're going with this. About the same number of edits but fewer Wait For Approval stages. Four edits submitted. Teallach (talk) 07:12, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
Approved, John Scifibones 07:22, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
Two Make Variants submitted. Teallach (talk) 07:52, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
I've checked all the affected records and everything looks good to me apart from one error that must have been present before we started the cleanup: the date of the canonical title of the Preface (correction submitted). So I think we've finally reached the end. If there's anything I've missed, let me know. Many thanks for all your assistance with this John. Much appreciated. Teallach (talk) 16:34, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
Fortunately, there is a scan of the first edition in the internet archive. I added the preface and a link to the scan here. As you know, the canonical is dated to the first appearance, even if it is as a variant. I put your submission on hold, assuming you would rather cancel than have me reject it. I enjoyed working on this with you. Ping me anytime. John Scifibones 18:43, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
Oh, that's interesting. It hadn't occurred to me to look for an archive of the first ed because I had looked in Currey who states the following regarding the first Pan pb (1955): 'adds new author's "preface"'. So it's possible that there are two different prefaces. This requires more research which I don't have time to do now and may not have the resources anyway. But it's fine to leave the ISFDb records as they are for now; they are all self consistent. I have cancelled my submission. Teallach (talk) 04:46, 20 April 2024 (EDT)

Trademark markings in titles

My understanding is that we generally don't include symbols like ® and TM in titles because they usually indicate information about the title but are not usually part of the title. As JLaTondre wrote in 2012, "There is distinction between a title that has a '®' or 'TM' as part of the title and a title that adds the '®' or 'TM' for legal reasons." I'm asking because I ran across this title that has one as part of the title, and I don't think it's actually part of the title itself, but rather added for legal reasons. This might be something we should clarify on Help:Screen:Title. This was discussed way back in 2007, but I haven't yet found any more recent discussions (outside of the 2012 one I mentioned above). Thoughts? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:51, 23 April 2024 (EDT)

I'm the editor with the sole PV for that ebook pub. I have no objection to removing it since the trademark symbol really only applies to the "Liaden Universe" portion of the title. It is on the title page and cover that way. Clarification of the rule would be a good idea. Phil (talk) 13:44, 23 April 2024 (EDT)

Supermonsters

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2600565; I added Supermonsters as a variant (and subbed a better cover image) but it's from 1986 like the German parent so if anyone can find a copyright page scan which verifies the month is earlier the American cover would become the parent; I couldn't find one, but I do see on eBay that Archway released a much earlier PB in Sep. '78 with a photo of the cool American-added demon from the 1950s film Night/Curse of the Demon on the cover but the 2 sellers that showed the copyright page have editions that say 1 2 9 8 below the printing info; whether that's a number line or what I don't know but if anyone owns a copy you may want to enter yours. --Username (talk) 09:47, 24 April 2024 (EDT)

Ray Daley possible death

It's possible Ray Daley has died, though I haven't found an obituary or any other official report. He was in the hospital since the end of March due to a heart attack, and a number of people are posting condolences on an open call group on Facebook as well as on his profile there. I'll try to keep an eye on it and keep looking for an obituary or other official report. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:01, 24 April 2024 (EDT)

日本SFファンドム賞 (Japan SF Fandom Award) entry completed

It took me almost a year to do it (due to various things distracting me from it), but it's done. Please let me know if anyone has any questions. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:51, 24 April 2024 (EDT)

And related, I've completed entering the recipients of the Takumi Shibano Award. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:42, 24 April 2024 (EDT)

Shadow People

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3356; Long-gone PV of C$ Dell ed. entered just "Jones" as artist here, one or the other should be decided on and the 2 merged. --Username (talk) 09:43, 26 April 2024 (EDT)

Joshua T. Calvert / Joshua Tree

Hi! Along with updating the author records I have brought the installing of the first name as a pseudonym for the second on the way (incl. the varianting to the respective original titles). This was based on the information given at the German Wikipedia, which discloses the pseudonym. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 11:31, 29 April 2024 (EDT)

As a point of reference, Amazon.com uses the same author photo on the Joshua T. Calvert page and the Joshua Tree page. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:01, 29 April 2024 (EDT)
Okay, these have been varianted and everything is under this entry now. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 10:52, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
Checking Stonecreek's pending submissions (moderator only), I see a number of Make Variant submissions which suggest that the books that we have on file were originally published in German as by "Joshua Tree". We'll presumably need to reverse the canonical/alternate name relationship, which should be easy to do since we have only 2 titles as by "Joshua Tree" at this time. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:26, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
Okay, I've swapped the information and approved (I believe) all the related pending submissions. I'll work through the others in case there are more. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:18, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
Thanks! Ahasuerus (talk) 18:30, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
I have entered all English language "Joshua T. Calvert" pubs that Fixer was aware of and linked them to their "Joshua Tree" parents. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:21, 3 May 2024 (EDT)

Le Splash!

https://archive.org/search?query=splash+don-ian; French edition of the mermaid movie novelization in case anyone fluent wants to enter it. --Username (talk) 22:56, 30 April 2024 (EDT)

That may be how it was credited. It's currently varianted. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 10:53, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
Um, I think Joe's response may be for another subject. --Username (talk) 11:10, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
Yup, not sure which one mine was for. Sorry for the confusion. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:57, 3 May 2024 (EDT)

Additions to verified publication

hello mods! I am going to submit a few little additions (printing month, pub series name, external ID) to this book, which was primarily verified by Chavey, whose talk page says to post inquiries about modifications at the moderator board. Can I submit? thanks! - --Fantagufo (talk) 08:13, 3 May 2024 (EDT)

Go ahead and submit them, then post here again. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 10:17, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
Done! Here is the submission. After approval I'll add my Primary verification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fantagufo (talk • contribs) . 10:50, 3 May 2024‎ (EDT)
Approved. Here's the entry now. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:00, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
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