User talk:Teallach

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Hello, Teallach, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!Kraang 23:22, 17 December 2021 (EST)

Dating and all that

First - welcome. :) Moving to your page so you can have a reference for later. The earlier part is here.

Think of ISFDB as a database - not as a site - if I do a query for all books in December 1973, I won't check if any of them are "arbitrary" months - I will assume that the DB has the correct data. Sorting and visualization are different problems from data validity and we cannot solve one of them at the expense of the other :) Hope that makes sense. We don't have a page specifically saying "don't use invented data" as it seems to be intuitive. And the project had been around for a very long time - things had changed, some editors may not have paid attention in some places. Part of the reason why we have moderation is exactly to try to ensure that everything follows the same rules (but we are human and that fails now and again) and to work with new editors on the less clear parts of the rules.

It does get easier as you get used to it, yes :) If you have any questions/concerns, don't hesitate to ask or use the help desk or the rest of the Community boards. Annie 11:21, 5 January 2022 (EST)

Oceans of Venus

Regarding this submission: The ISFDB is a publication based database. Instead of creating an empty variant first, you should enter the publication (using either the "Add New..." or "Clone" depending if it already exists in the database) first and then once approved, making any necessary variants.

In this particular case, we already have Oceans of Venus along with its foreword in the database so this new variant would have been a duplicate record. Please check whether you have one of the existing Oceans of Venus records. If not, please use the clone option. ISFDB has some conventions that need learning so please check out the help links in the welcome message above. And let us know if you have any questions (ISFDB:Help desk is a good resource for asking). -- JLaTondre (talk) 07:01, 7 January 2022 (EST)

As I stated in the Note to Moderator, the pub record to which I want to attach a Foreword already exists and it is this one: The Oceans of Venus When I looked through the existing records for Forewords associated with this novel, I found the one to which you referred: Foreword (Oceans of Venus) However, I could not find one called "Foreword (The Oceans of Venus)" so I tried to create it. I have read your comment and the related Help pages carefully but I still do not understand why what I did is wrong. Can you please clarify.Teallach 18:30, 8 January 2022 (EST)
Sorry, I misunderstood your note. You would edit the publication and add the foreword in the content sections of the pub record. That will create the new record and have it in the correct pub. That avoids having an empty title record that could get deleted. Once the pub edit is accepted, the new foreword would be varianted to the existing Foreword (Lucky Starr and the Oceans of Venus). In general, title records should be created from editing or creating a pub, not by creating an empty variant. Hope that makes sense. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:55, 8 January 2022 (EST)
I followed your instructions and updated the pub record directly. This is in submission 5192436 which has been approved. However, the new title record Foreword (The Oceans of Venus) is NOT a variant of the desired parent: Foreword (Lucky Starr and the Oceans of Venus). How do we rectify this situation?Teallach 18:39, 12 January 2022 (EST)
Go to the record you want to become a variant: Foreword (The Oceans of Venus). Look in the left menu and locate "Make This Title a Variant". In this case, it will open this. In Option 1, put the ID of the parent (751145 in this case) and click on "Link to Existing Parent" (careful - the button is in the middle of the page; the one at the bottom of the page will do something else as it is for a different usecase. Wait for it to be approved. Situation rectified :) Let me know if you have questions. Annie 18:43, 12 January 2022 (EST)
All looks good now. Thanks for your help.Teallach 13:45, 15 January 2022 (EST)

Prologue (Foundation's Edge)

I am creating and PVing a later printing of Foundation's Edge. Whilst adding the Prologue, I noticed that a Title record for it already appears to exist: Prologue (Foundation's Edge) and the only pub record it relates to is the first printing, which you have PVd. The Prologue is recorded as SHORTFICTION but I think it should be ESSAY. The giveaway is this first sentence of a paragraph toward the bottom the first page: "In the Foundation Trilogy, the story of the first four centuries of the Interregnum is told". Can you please check the Prologue in your copy to see if it is the same and let me have your thoughts on changing the Type.
Based on the Last User Activity Date, there are 3 PVs who are still active: Willem H, Taweiss and Nihonjoe, so I have posted this note to all your Talk pages. I am a new editor, so am not sure of the correct etiquette for handling this situation, but it seems desirable to have the whole conversation in one place. So may I suggest you reply on my Talk page. Thanks. Teallach 17:42, 21 January 2022 (EST)

I'll check when I get home. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:02, 21 January 2022 (EST)
The prologue is a summary of the first three books in the series, and is what we call a "fictional essay". See the help text here, under short fiction and essay. Back in 2008 it was classified as short fiction (note that no length is assigned because it is not a short story). I.m.o. it should stay this way. --Willem 04:30, 22 January 2022 (EST)
Thanks, Willem. I agree. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:55, 24 January 2022 (EST)
No reply from Taweiss, but as I raised this issue a week ago I would like to close it. I appreciate that the difference between Essay and Shortfiction is sometimes subjective so, as there is a difference of opinion in this case, I suggest we leave things as they are. Thank you for your input. Teallach 18:12, 28 January 2022 (EST)

Notifications when the PVs are inactive


When you don't have active PVs to work with but you have PVs in the book and the change is major, the policy is to post in the Moderator Noticeboard instead. Changes to notes such as here can be just submitted as long as they do not contradict the existing ones. As these did not, I approved it but just FYI in case you need to change something bigger next time :) Annie 01:30, 16 February 2022 (EST)

Will do. No problem. Teallach 13:56, 16 February 2022 (EST)

The Magic Goes Away

I'm holding this submission. Are you planning on entering content titles in either the beginning or ending unnumbered page ranges? If not, there is no need to add these. Please read bullet point three under Pages. John Scifibones 17:38, 30 June 2022 (EDT)

I changed the page numbering to include the unnumbered pages at the start and end of the book because they do indeed include a content title. This content title is already listed in the Contents section of the pub record. It is the interior artwork. This artwork is extensive. It starts in the unnumbered pages before the beginning of the novella, is intermixed throughout the novella and the essay and finishes in the unnumbered pages after the end of the essay. The pub notes clarify that artwork is present in the unnumbered pages. Teallach 18:55, 1 July 2022 (EDT)
I approved your edit. I saw the note about the existing interior art title. I'm curious to see what you add. Thanks John Scifibones 19:28, 1 July 2022 (EDT)

Edmund Cooper (Richard Avery) / The Deathworms (Death Worms) of Kratos

Posted on the talk pages of: PeteYoung, Mavmaramis, Dirk P Broer, Biomassbob, GlennMcG
I will be editing and PVing both the 1975 Coronet pb and 1979 Coronet pb of The Death Worms of Kratos. Although both of these pubs have "Deathworms" on the covers, they state "Death Worms" on their title pages. The ISFDb records incorrectly have "Deathworms" so I propose to correct the pub records and will add appropriate pub notes. As the 1975 Coronet pb is the true 1st ed (confirmed by Currey), I will also change the canonical title to "Death Worms" and make all the necessary associated changes (eg Coverart records).
Biomassbob and GlennMcG: you have PVd the 1975 Fawcett pb. Can you please confirm this has "Deathworms" on the title page. If so, after I have done all the above changes, I will make sure it is correctly varianted.
Is all this ok with everyone? Teallach (talk) 17:01, 19 September 2022 (EDT)

The Severn House edition even has the title as 'Death Worms' on cover.--Dirk P Broer (talk) 17:55, 19 September 2022 (EDT)
My copy definately has "Deathworms" on the title page. Bob (talk) 10:26, 20 September 2022 (EDT)
Mine as well (Deathworms). --Glenn (talk) 17:06, 20 September 2022 (EDT)
Dirk: Yes, I noticed that cover of the Severn House ed. Unfortunately, it has no PV so we cannot check the title on the title page. Thus I propose to leave that pub record alone. Teallach (talk) 18:07, 20 September 2022 (EDT)
Bob and Glenn: Thanks for the confirmation. Teallach (talk) 18:08, 20 September 2022 (EDT)
No objections after one week so I am proceeding with the changes. Teallach (talk) 17:58, 26 September 2022 (EDT)

Amazon and old books

I approved the edit here but reverted the month change. The Amazons can be used for dating of new books (aka ones they got as new) but a record for a 1979 book is coming from a vendor and these are... problematic. They are not all wrong but there are enough which are to make them all unreliable. So you need a different source - a scan of a jacket showing a month, a bibliography or something else like that. Using Amazon as a springboard (now you know it is possibly October so you know what contemporary reviews and magazines/newspapers may have it so you narrowed it down a bit more in looking for an actual source if you care to). Let me know if you have any questions. On a separate note - unless the publication already carries the new date, ALWAYS add a proper note into the title when you change a date to a date that does not match the books we have. It can be removed later but until the publication is sorted out, the title should be able to defend its date on its own (and you do not want someone to undo the change because there is no documentation for it) :) Annie (talk) 23:59, 2 December 2022 (EST)

That's fine. I have submitted all the edits for the related pubs. Teallach (talk) 18:13, 3 December 2022 (EST)