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Through the Budgerigar

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?925198; While adding LCCN to Jones novel Transplant I noticed this book was added not long ago and while SFE mentions it and even a cover artist there seems to be no evidence of a cover online; can anyone find one? --Username (talk) 18:06, 3 January 2024 (EST)

To the Sound of Freedom II

https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal/Archive/Archive53#To_the_Sound_of_Freedom; I came across this record again today; should it get an all-8's date? --Username (talk) 18:24, 4 January 2024 (EST)

HG Wells and His Critics

https://archive.org/search?query=wells-and-his-critics; Anyone know a way to tell which of the 3 publishers these copies are from so I can add links? The USA one has no record; maybe it was never actually published by them. --Username (talk) 22:38, 5 January 2024 (EST)

Top Science Fiction

https://archive.org/search?query=pachter-josh+top&sort=-addeddate; Someone added intros to this anthology recently, I added archived link long ago, just noticed a Spanish-language edition, La crema de la ciencia ficción, was upped to Archive.org in 2013 in case anyone fluent wants to enter that. EDIT: From the same publisher is La Crema del crimen, https://archive.org/search?query=crema-del-crimen, which includes a few stories from ISFDB judging by back cover. --Username (talk) 09:40, 6 January 2024 (EST)

I will add the Spanish one. What the heck. --MartyD (talk) 13:12, 6 January 2024 (EST)

Pachter

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1914279; Josh Pachter is credited as "with" on title page of 2015 English edition on Archive.org. Should he be added as co-author? --Username (talk) 10:21, 6 January 2024 (EST)

I didn't check the Archive.org copy, but the Look Inside on Amazon shows that "with" citation, but then on the copyright page it says the English translation is copyright 2015 Dhooge and Pachter. There is also a copyright 2014 for Dhooge and the original publisher. I interpret that to mean Pachter's role was (co-?)translator. I found Pachter's bibliography page, and this listed in the "Translations" section. But just to avoid having anything be too clear, he also has this, where he talks about previously translating another Dhooge work and being asked to "collaborate on an American version" of this one. So does that mean this isn't a translation but is actually a major revision? Dunno. Given that Pachter only takes credit for translating it, I think noting him as translator and documenting the "with" citation and the copyright statements (could throw in the Pachter site references as a bonus) should be sufficient. --MartyD (talk) 13:30, 6 January 2024 (EST)

Star Gors

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5851689; I was adding links and adding/fixing other stuff in some Gor editions, mostly UK Star PB, when I noticed an artist's signature for Players of Gor, Star edition, is on the cover but ISFDB had no credit. I tried several names I thought it could be and finally got Tony Masero who, as far as I can tell, is credited exactly once on the entire net for doing this cover, an AbeBooks/Biblio seller's description, but AbeBooks show the wrong (Daw Books) cover and Biblio's scan of the right cover is much too small to see the signature clearly. So I think I got a rare one. As can be seen here, [1], there are 5 other Star editions with no cover credit; if anyone can find a signature on any of them, beat me to it and enter them yourselves. --Username (talk) 21:49, 6 January 2024 (EST)

Night Mayor Cover Art

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?474; I noticed that the cover art for the original UK HC and the US C&G HC, which is the same, is credited to 2 different artists here. It's easy to find photos of the back flap of US online which does say design by Roy Colmer but of the several eBay sellers who offer the UK none thought to show the back flap. There are many C&G Colmer design credits online so I'm thinking Kemp did the art and US just didn't credit him, only their designer. So should we make C&G artist Jon Kemp with a note about him not being credited? --Username (talk) 19:11, 10 January 2024 (EST)

I have the UK hc of Kim Newman / The Night Mayor. The rear flap of the dust jacket states: "Jacket Illustration: Jon Kemp" and "Jacket Design: Bostock & Pollitt Ltd." Teallach (talk) 18:44, 18 January 2024 (EST)

Darrah Chavey's Passing

I was saddened to read this morning of Chavey's passing in File 770 (Number 7 in the Pixel Scroll). It was always a pleasure to work with him here and he will be missed. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 06:49, 11 January 2024 (EST)

I replaced link on his page with an updated one; also, while adding a link to the issue of the zine, Aurora, where his Walton essays appeared I discovered that most issues of Aurora and its predecessor Janus are on Archive.org, he PV most (all?) of them, but some have full contents while others have nothing. I imported a few poems from Robert Frazier, Steven M. Tymon, etc. but there's a ton of other book reviews and articles and stuff for anyone who's interested. --Username (talk) 19:15, 11 January 2024 (EST)
Sad news indeed. He had a heart attack a few years ago and has been less active since then, but he was only 69, so it was unexpected. Thanks for updating his User and Talk pages. I have updated user rights on his account. Ahasuerus (talk) 23:11, 12 January 2024 (EST)
Rtrace, thanks for letting us all know. I echo your sentiments. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:47, 13 January 2024 (EST)

Barn Owl

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?4296; I made an edit for City of Hermits long ago and today added some more stuff; I think this Barn Owl is not the same as the other that published much later. Ann Jungman who wrote a few of the later ones has a Wiki page where it says she founded Barn Owl in 1999 so I think the 1983 one should get a USA or California or something added to it. Whoever wrote the note about Frances Lincoln here seems to have conflated the 2 publishers; the England location probably belongs with the later publisher. --Username (talk) 08:27, 11 January 2024 (EST)

I separated out Barn Owl Books (UK) and Barn Owl Books (USA) based on the ISBN's. I also updated the notes for Barn Owl Books (UK) based on this article. When untangling publishers, the Global Register of Publishers can be of help. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:11, 13 January 2024 (EST)

Pat Frank Title

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5856366; I added cover image long ago; just came across archived copy which was there years before my edit so I'm not sure why I didn't add it back then but I did now and also added dash in title, H-Bomb, but I noticed there's another part of the title that people can't decide on. Mhhutchins entered it with 3 dots but title page has one GIANT dot while facing page has long dash and LOC/WorldCat has comma. So what's the consensus? --Username (talk) 11:44, 11 January 2024 (EST)

Sue Robinson

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?16675; I added archived link and a few other things to the HC of Amendment; author is a respected American newsperson. She should be differed from the Australian author. 1992 story in Weird Tales may be by either of them or another person since there's no bio in that issue. Also, does anyone own Amendment PB? It has nice cover art but there's no back cover photo online where I assume the artist would be credited. I see some weird blocks in the lower right, P and another letter, maybe initials or maybe just part of the art. --Username (talk) 19:10, 11 January 2024 (EST)

I separated out The Amendment to Sue Robinson (I). The author blurb for The Amendment does not align with the bio for the more prominent newspaper reporter of the same name, nor does that person list The Amendment as one of their works on their personal or faculty website. So probably two different reporters with same name. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:55, 13 January 2024 (EST)

Peter Goodfellow

http://petergoodfellow.com/index.php/2-uncategorised/18-misc2; I added a few credits for this artist but the last one has me stumped because the 1992 edition had the same cover as the last image here, http://petergoodfellow.com/index.php/2-uncategorised/18-misc2, but that was wrong because archived copy has the same Posen cover as the later printing on ISFDB. Goodfellow cover has an M for Mammoth so was it an earlier or later edition and why can't I find the original Methuen cover anywhere? --Username (talk) 12:54, 12 January 2024 (EST)

French Swastika

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5857839; French speakers, I made my usual shaky attempt at entering a foreign-language edition but I felt a book of such fame probably deserved it; after approval if anyone cares to look it over I'm sure it can be improved. I also made a follow-up edit changing date of French variant to a year earlier to match the date of this book. Also, those Feminist Press editions, https://archive.org/search?query=swastika-night&sort=-addeddate&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22, are a mess, the one with the white cover matches the UK Lawrence & Wishart edition's cover but has the info of the '85 Feminist edition, while the other 2 with the face on the cover either a) have no price on the back and totally different back cover text but copyright page is the same or b) are a 4th printing from 2003, I think, with cover info on copyright page the '85 edition doesn't have and a missing back cover so no way to tell what was on there. If anyone cares to figure all that out. For some reason the French edition I mentioned above is in English according to Archive.org which is obviously wrong. --Username (talk) 18:59, 12 January 2024 (EST)

UK Omni

https://fantlab.ru/edition356174; I added archived links to the 6 volumes of Best of Omni and noticed FantLab has a photo of #6 with a UK price on it in case anyone knows more about that; maybe all 6 were published there but, if so, none are on ISFDB. --Username (talk) 10:23, 14 January 2024 (EST)

Tiret-Bognet

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=bognet&type=Name; same Verne illustrator, same book in different languages, one should be parent and maybe some of the art needs merging, Holmesd worked on many of these Verne books so he'd probably know. --Username (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (EST)

Server maintenance 2024-01-15 at 3pm EST

The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance on 2024-01-15 (today) between 3pm and 3:10pm EST. The database and the Wiki will be unavailable. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:09, 15 January 2024 (EST)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:06, 15 January 2024 (EST)

N. Katerli

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=katerli&type=Name; I found a huge (380+ pages) thread on FantLab's message boards with people who have died, many of which were never entered on ISFDB (not all genre, though, some footballers and other non-genre people are included, too) and while adding many dates and photos I came across Katerli; I added Wiki link, day of death, and photo to Nina's record but is that other spelling the same person? If so, some variant would probably be needed. --Username (talk) 12:25, 17 January 2024 (EST)

It's very possible, given how things get romanized from Eastern European languages. Perhaps one of our Eastern European language people can do a little digging? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:30, 17 January 2024 (EST)
Looking into it a bit myself, I'm 100% sure they are the same person. Working on connecting them. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:57, 17 January 2024 (EST)
Okay, everything is here, now. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:27, 17 January 2024 (EST)
Thanks for working on her stories. I have added dates and updated the author record. Ahasuerus (talk) 21:51, 17 January 2024 (EST)

Terry Venables

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5861442; Is this the famous footballer (or soccer, as we Yanks call it)? There seem to be a lot of photos of him but some of them look like a different person so just making sure this is the right guy (he wrote some novels including Bornless Keeper which is on ISFDB but online info seems to suggest he didn't actually write any of it, Gordon Williams did). --Username (talk) 12:44, 17 January 2024 (EST)

Yes, things like that do happen: there are several titles in the database for which it is doubtful if the featured prominent author did actually write them; and so, jugig from the photo and the theme of the listed title it is the Terry Venables. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 07:38, 18 January 2024 (EST)
I can confirm that the photo in your submission is indeed of the English footballer Terry Venables. Teallach (talk) 18:42, 18 January 2024 (EST)

Alchemy Magazine

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?35135; Luminist.org has a lot of magazines not on Archive.org and while replacing cover and adding link to Alchemy #2 I noticed all 3 issues have a different format, TP/unknown/pulp. Those who know about such things may want to adjust those since I'm assuming they all should be the same format. --Username (talk) 01:11, 18 January 2024 (EST)

Dinotopia Digest Novels

I just made about 20 edits for this series (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5862661 through https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5862859) and as usual with series books it's a nightmare; I think I did as much as I could with what's available (oddly, only 1 book, Survive!, didn't have its original Random House edition entered on ISFDB so I had to scrounge up a copy on Google Books to enter info from). I think only one thing may raise questions and that's this, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2230051, where an editor here in 2017 entered James Gurney as cover artist but even though he's mentioned on all copyright pages because he's the creator/owner of Dinotopia it was actually Michael Welply who did all the covers. Problem is after I removed cover credit (I didn't enter Welply because while it does say that in archived 3rd printing copy there are some 1st printings of books in the series that misspelled it as Welpley and then corrected that in later printings) I noticed the nomination for best cover in the art record. So I don't know what to make of that; was Gurney nominated because he's the creator or did someone make a mistake and not nominate the real artist, Welply? --Username (talk) 12:58, 18 January 2024 (EST)

Pratchett's Eric - converting into novella?

I did a word count on a digital version of Eric, and it's around 35000 words, i.e. clearly a novella. Comments on the title and various publication records point out how unusually short it is. Locus calls the first edition a novella, but later editions a novel. I think the novella classification is correct, but am hesitant in converting such a high-profile title. Any opinions? TerokNor (talk) 08:01, 19 January 2024 (EST)

My electronic copy contains 34.2K words, so it's a novella. That said, I wonder about Locus changing its classification after the first edition. Is there any indication that later editions may have been longer? Ahasuerus (talk) 11:43, 19 January 2024 (EST)
I can find no indication of there being different editions of the text. I noticed however that after the original illustrated edition (which was billed "A Discworld Story"), it usually says "A Discworld Novel" on the covers, so Locus might have just gone with that. TerokNor (talk) 13:59, 19 January 2024 (EST)
It sounds like it's a novella whose subtitle (but not the word count) was changed in later editions. I suggest we wait for other editors to share their thoughts before we change the type from NOVEL to SHORTFICTION. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:49, 19 January 2024 (EST)
I added an Archive.org link in a PENDING edit to The Illustrated Eric, 2010 Gollancz HC, so that may help with the counting; page count said 144 but it is actually 131. --Username (talk) 12:26, 19 January 2024 (EST)
I have approved the submission that corrected the page count and updated the Note field to indicate where the corrected page count comes from. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:49, 19 January 2024 (EST)
(Chime) Not surprised, don't care, go ahead. ../Doug H (talk) 21:26, 19 January 2024 (EST)

(unindent) Hearing no objection, I have left a message on TerokNor's Talk page asking him to proceed with the proposed changes. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:38, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Thank you. I have submitted the first edit to begin the process. TerokNor (talk) 05:19, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Late Mods

I had a thought while adding FantLab ID to a PV Brian Lumley book today; is there a way to remove the necessity of adding a note to the mod about what changes you made if the mod is deceased? There have been several mod losses recently, most of whom PV countless books, so it would save time to not have to write anything if the only PV's are ones who are not going to read those notes. --Username (talk) 12:23, 19 January 2024 (EST)

I think there are two sides to this issue.
The first one is technical, i.e. whether it would be possible to modify the software to check each primary verifier's Talk page to see if it starts with the "Deceased user" template. The short answer is "Yes, it would be possible, although it would also make our core software more closely intertwined with the Wiki software, which may become a minor nuisance during the next Wiki upgrade".
The second one is functional, i.e. whether making this kind of change would be desirable. I am not sure it would. It would save some keystrokes, but there is value to having more detailed Edit History for primary verified publications even if their verifiers are no longer available. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:42, 19 January 2024 (EST)

Moll/Head Virgin Planet

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5864268; I added cover and prices but I think publisher should be changed to Wyndham, either Star or Tandem or Target which are all on ISFDB related to Wyndham, since their logo is on front and back covers, https://www.ebay.com/itm/143869122299. The other issue is the cover is the same Charles Moll art as earlier US paperbacks; Michael Head was a designer with 1 other ISFDB credit that notes say is just a photo and a Mike Head I noted in an edit earlier today as the designer for Piatkus edition of M. Bingley's Waiting Darkness did a cover which is just a photo of a fist. So where Head credit came from for Virgin Planet I don't know but I think Moll credit should replace it. --Username (talk) 23:09, 19 January 2024 (EST)

One Hundred Years of Science Fiction

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5864915; I'm guessing this Gollancz edition is rare judging by the fact there's almost no photos of the cover online. As can be seen in my edit, notes about year (probably very old and entered by the long-gone Bluesman) are obsolete now because the year is on the title page. Also, the price was entered by Mellotronman from his copy but for a 1969 UK book the pre-decimal price should be entered so that's what I did; problem is in his note to mod in edit history he says other price is 32s, not 30. So if he's still around he may want to PV and add a note about the alternate price (I'm assuming the archived copy's flap is badly framed which is why the other price is not visible) and delete year notes and add a new one saying the date is on the title page. --Username (talk) 12:31, 20 January 2024 (EST)

It doesn't help that two different printings share the same ISBN. Mine says 1970 on the front of the title page and 'second impression 1970' on the back of the same page. The price is most definitely listed on the dust jacket as '32s', an unusual way of writing 'shillings'. The more usual way would be '32/-'. Perhaps the first impression was 30s and the second 32? Mellotronman (talk) 16:55, 20 January 2024 (EST)
OK, I think it makes sense now, copy on Archive.org is '69 1st pr. with just s-price while your 1970 2nd pr. has both s-price and pounds. So after my edit is approved you may want to clone it and enter yours with new date and prices and PV it, too. --Username (talk) 19:07, 20 January 2024 (EST)

Tom Palmer

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?98449; 2 or 3 different Palmers here; novels are by the guy pictured but the art credits are by the recently deceased (2022) famous comic artist who had a still-online site, tompalmerillustration, and a Wiki page as Tom Palmer (comics); the poem, judging by the bio at the archived Aphelion link, is by another likely American Palmer. --Username (talk) 21:58, 20 January 2024 (EST)

Lone Star Law

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?80404; Anyone think this should be deleted? --Username (talk) 17:34, 21 January 2024 (EST)

The Note field says:
  • Western story anthology. It may have some spec-fic stories, but otherwise, there's no reason for it to be in the database.
Have we been able to find this anthology's table of contents and determine whether any of the stories are SF? Ahasuerus (talk) 15:23, 24 January 2024 (EST)
I was able to look at the ToC via the Amazon Look Inside feature for the pb edition (ISBN 978-1982153069) and I don't see anything there that looks like SF. Phil (talk) 15:38, 24 January 2024 (EST)
Reading the editor's introductions to each story I noticed that two stories were called "eerie". After reading them, I can confirm that one is an unambiguous ghost story while the other one is an ambiguous "curse" story. I have added them to the publication record and updated Notes. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:13, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Recording plagiarized work

A couple of days ago File 770 reported (item 5) that "After the Flood" by John Kucera was plagiarised from another author. I've added a note to that title record, but I'm wondering whether anything else should be done, e.g. making it a variant? ErsatzCulture (talk) 01:36, 22 January 2024 (EST)

Unless the poem uses the same wording I'd think the only thing we can do is to add notes to the title (and likely the publications the plagiat was published in). Christian Stonecreek (talk) 01:32, 22 January 2024 (EST)
All three of the works "by" this author that are listed on ISFDB appear to have been plagiarized. I've added notes to the title entries as well as the publication entries. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:59, 22 January 2024 (EST)
Thanks all! ErsatzCulture (talk) 15:22, 22 January 2024 (EST)
At some point, we should probably make them variants since (in all the reports I've read) only the title were changed by the plagiarizer. Similar to this one. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:34, 22 January 2024 (EST)
I've added the variants for the two I could figure out. Still unsure who originally wrote "Summer 1993" and what the original title was. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:15, 22 January 2024 (EST)
How about this one, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2951283? --Username (talk) 16:29, 22 January 2024 (EST)
Looks like it's the same guy per a Google search that brought up this (archive), which is the same thing but under his Kucera name. Now to try to figure out who really wrote it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:06, 22 January 2024 (EST)
Some additional archive links to help us figure out all of this: Wild Word, Lothlorien Poetry Journal (archive), One Art Poetry on X, One Art Poetry, The Fictional Cafe, Sparks of Calliope (see also this page), New Reader Magazine (archive), Wendy N. Wagner loves pie on BlueSky, and I'll add more later. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:31, 22 January 2024 (EST)

(unindent) I suspect that the issue of plagiarized works is going to become harder to deal with in the near future. In the past we had to deal with two types of scenarios:

  • word-for-word reprints with the title/credits changed, usually by shady publishers or self-publishers
  • more elaborate schemes whose perpetrators plagiarized sections of other authors' works

The first type is fairly straightforward, but the second type is hard to catch. For example, volumes 29 and 33 in the Casca series were retroactively removed from the series over allegations of plagiarism in April-June 2013. It happened 3-5 years after their original publication even though the Casca fandom is very active. It's not something that we, bibliographers, can realistically identify on our own.

Over the last few months I have seen a number of reports of plagiarists using software to scrape Web-published stories, massage them using ChatGPT and put them on Amazon, e.g. this episode over the Christmas holidays. I suspect it's going to be a pain to deal with. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:29, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Bard II

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?291859; Wrong cover, it has price and ISBN of earlier printing, I can't find right cover, if anyone else can, can you upload it and replace this one? --Username (talk) 10:47, 22 January 2024 (EST)

Also, The First Long Ship (or Longship on some sites) which has no cover online I can find so if it exists and someone can find it that needs uploading, too. --Username (talk) 11:03, 22 January 2024 (EST)

Galactic Central Images

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5867682; The only other site I can find that has this cover is Camelot Books; I was going to upload it when I thought of checking Philsp and found it hiding there. Is the owner(s) of that site ever going to upgrade to HTTPS? Right-click and "open image in new tab" does show the image but it still would be better if that didn't have to be done. --Username (talk) 12:43, 22 January 2024 (EST)

Last I heard, the owner said that he had no plans to upgrade to HTTPS. That said, browser vendors have been making it harder to access HTTP sites, which puts pressure on site owners to upgrade. It remains to be seen how it may affect Galactic Central in the future. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:21, 24 January 2024 (EST)

German Playboy

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?757; While replacing sideways Amazon cover with better straight cover for one of these books I noticed there are 8 or 9 that don't have cover credits (last book was unpublished so likely no cover exists); since most covers in the series were originally on English-language books it's likely the missing ones were, too, so if anyone can recognize the art then artists can be entered and variants can be made. --Username (talk) 09:08, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Brian Ames Title

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?119003; I added a link to a MOTA anthology over a year ago and there's a 2002 story by Brian Ames which editors before me seemed to have trouble deciding how to enter (see extensive title edit history), eventually settling on a symbol; however, in his collection someone entered the title as "grey blob", which is what it actually looks like in the anthology. So the 2 stories are the same and should be merged but what should the title be entered as? This reminds me of that David J. Schow horror story where nobody can ever decide how to enter it and eventually settled on "scribbled graffiti" or this, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?76213, but at least Oates can get away with that because most of her work is pretentious "literary" stuff, anyway. --Username (talk) 12:22, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Merged here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:39, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Duplicate finder -- NOVEL/CHAPBOOK?

The "Duplicate Finder" program, which exists in three incarnations -- one for Author pages, one for Title pages and one for Publication pages -- searches for potential duplicate titles and then lets you merge them. Its default mode of operations is "exact", which means that two (or more) titles need to have the exact same spelling as well as the same authors in order to be considered potential duplicates.

The "exact" mode also ignores unlikely title type mismatches. For example, if one title record is SHORTFICTION and another one is NOVEL, they won't be flagged as potential duplicates. However, the "exact" mode currently flags NOVEL and CHAPBOOK titles with identical titles and authors as potential duplicates. I am thinking that this is likely more harmful than useful and would like to propose that we change the behavior of the "exact" mode to skip identical NOVEL/CHAPBOOK pairs. Ideas? Ahasuerus (talk) 17:35, 24 January 2024 (EST)

I agree. As it is currently, we could accidentally merge titles incorrectly. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:40, 24 January 2024 (EST)
I also agree. --MartyD (talk) 13:21, 25 January 2024 (EST)
I use that one a lot especially when adding juvenile chapbooks to prolific authors (mainly Fixer's) - because of how Amazon has these, they rarely make it to addPubs and not having the duplicate finder highlight the previously entered novel (a lot of these are stored as novels and need conversion) makes it more likely not to see the other version on the page. So I would rather not lose it... Annie (talk) 18:43, 25 January 2024 (EST)
Let me clarify that the Duplicate Finder's "similar" mode would continue to flag NOVEL, SHORTFICTION and CHAPBOOK titles as potential duplicates after the proposed change. Would it be sufficient for Fixer-originated use cases? Ahasuerus (talk) 21:41, 25 January 2024 (EST)
But we do not have a similar mode in the pubs/titles Duplicate finder. The one I use is the one that triggers when you click on "Check for Duplicate Titles" after a Pub/Title Edit. Which I believe is "exact". If I need to go to the author page every time to run a separate similar mode check, it will add steps. Plus in some of these authors, it will highlight a lot of things which is different from the current case where it is a quick check that finds usually a single match when it does. I can make it work - but it will add to the workflow. One option may be to allow the similar as an option on pub/title duplicate finder - keep the exact as a default but allow a similar to be run with a click how we do it on author page's find duplicates? A separate click which is right there will help.
And this is not just for Fixer usecases - I've needed it when moderating as well often enough in a similar usecase - we have chapbook/novel and a new(ish) member adds the same as the other.
If the proposal is to remove it from the 'Author' exact duplicate finder only with no change for the pub/title duplicate finder, then I am fine with removing it there. But the way the proposal reads, it sounds like we are not going to show it in the default mode in either :) Annie (talk) 10:45, 26 January 2024 (EST)
Thanks for the clarification. I forgot about the fact that the versions of the Duplicate Finder software used on Publication and Title pages do not support "similar" and "aggressive" modes. If memory serves, the reason was performance -- there can be thousands of titles with "similar" spellings where "similar" is defined as an 85% overlap, the current threshold value.
It sounds like what we may need is a new Duplicate Finder mode. Something that would be the same as the "exact" mode except that it would also flag identical CHAPBOOK/NOVEL title pairs. It would be made available on all three Duplicate Finder pages.
If it sounds workable, I can look into what it would take to implement it. I suspect that it should be a fairly straightforward change, but I am not 100% sure. We'll also need to come up with an intuitive name for the new mode. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:11, 26 January 2024 (EST)
That will work for me. And if you are going to do it, we may think about throwing an anthology/collection/omnibus format mix in the same mode (same usecase essentially - especially around juveniles and novellas previously added as novels). And even poem/shortfiction? Maybe simply pull all the format discrepancy matches out from Exact (requiring a format match in it) and move them to their own type of duplicate finder mode. That will also make it less likely for someone to merge by mistake based on the standard duplicate find.Annie (talk) 12:27, 26 January 2024 (EST)
You could have "type" be an independent modifier applied to any of the three modes. Something like "Match identical types only", on by default. That would also be easy to extend to other criteria (e.g., language) in the future without having a cross product of mode choices. --MartyD (talk) 14:26, 26 January 2024 (EST)
Good point! Ahasuerus (talk) 14:43, 26 January 2024 (EST)

(unindent) After experimenting on the development server and paying closer attention when working on the Clean Authors cleanup, I think I have a better appreciation for Annie's concerns. At this point clicking "Check for Duplicate Titles" post-approval is second nature for moderators and self-approvers. When a submission adds a NOVEL publication, it's very helpful to know that a CHAPBOOK pub with the same title already exists in the database, especially if the submitter is a robot. Requiring the approving moderator to click yet another link/button would mess with the workflow.

I suppose we could change the Duplicate Finder logic to ignore CHAPBOOK/NOVEL duplicates by default, but display a yellow warning -- and a link to the more relaxed version of the Duplicate Finder -- if they exist. I am not sure it would be ideal, though. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:34, 31 January 2024 (EST)

As long as it is a link and not a need to go elsewhere or to go to the author level, that will work for me.
I'd also want to ask for the anthology/collection/omnibus and the poem/short fiction checks to be added to the chapbook/novel both for the yellow warning and the more relaxed one - both of these happen often enough to be annoying if we lose the ability to see them on the duplicate finder. Unless the plan is to leave these into the default one - in which case, we are fine. Annie (talk) 11:45, 31 January 2024 (EST)
After thinking some more about this issue, it occurs to me that there may be another way to approach this issue. Currently, most post-approval Web pages display links that let you view/edit the updated/added record or, for some submission types like Make Variant, multiple records. A few post-submission pages also link to the Duplicate Finder or other pages.
However, there is nothing preventing the post-approval software from quietly checking the status of the added/updated record(s) and displaying appropriate warnings. For example, the post-approval page for NewPubs could run the Duplicate Finder behind the scenes and then display a message like:
  • The added publication record includes a title record with the same title and authors as another title record. Use the Duplicate Finder link above to see the details.
This warning message would be easy to implement and moderators would no longer have to worry about forgetting to click "Duplicate Finder" after approving NewPub submissions. Does this sound useful?
If we choose to add this warning message, we could still decide to tweak the Duplicate Finder logic later, but I think the message should be implemented first since it changes the workflow. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:53, 2 February 2024 (EST)
That will be useful -- I am not sure how many false alerts will show up and how they will be treated (especially from the less experienced moderating users - usually the self-approvers) but other from that, any checks the software can do for me are always welcome. Annie (talk) 14:08, 6 February 2024 (EST)
OK, FR 1592, "Warning after approving NewPub submissions which create potential duplicates", has been created. We'll see how useful it will be. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:48, 6 February 2024 (EST)

Duplicate Finder enhancements -- Outcome

FR 1592 has been implemented. After approving NewPub/AddPub/ClonePub/EditPub submissions, moderators and self-approvers will now see a yellow warning and a link to the Duplicate Finder if the created/affected publication record contains one (or more) title records which have the same title(s) and author(s) as other title records in the database. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:58, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Moondust

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?22737; I added a whole bunch of edits for Rosemary Harris books and also found a PDF link for her early uncollected story "Hamlin" at Galactic Journey. Looking through their list of PDF's I noticed a Swann link and, thinking it would be a short story, I clicked it and it turned out to be the full original edition of his novel Moondust which has no copies at the usual places like Internet Archive or Luminist. I'm guessing there's more novels hiding in that list but for now I'll just ask if anyone owns the book and wouldn't mind transcribing the text on the last 2 pages and adding it to the record because those are missing in the PDF. I'm not sure what copyright rules are for a 50+-year-old book but I think a page or two would count as an excerpt and wouldn't bother anyone, right? --Username (talk) 11:43, 25 January 2024 (EST)

That can get complicated. Since this was first published in 1968 in the United States, and if it was published with a copyright notice, the copyright expires at the end of 2063 (meaning it becomes public domain on January 1, 2064). If it was published without a copyright notice, since it was published between 1964 and 1977, it is now in the public domain. See here for more details. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:27, 25 January 2024 (EST)
Looking at the PDF copy from the link you submitted, the copyright notice is very clear on the back of the title page. This means the copyright doesn't expire until 2064, so we shouldn't be linking to a pirated PDF copy. I rejected the link addition. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:30, 25 January 2024 (EST)
So does that mean that all the 330 or so Luminist.org PDF's currently linked on ISFDB are pirated, too? Because I don't think most of those are public domain; I would know because I'm the one who added most of the links. Has any mod in the history of this site ever gotten a request from anyone to remove a Luminist PDF? I'd be curious to know. When someone pirates something and uploads it, they love to add their name, fake as it may be, to the upload, similar to how computer game crackers decades ago loved to add their names to the crack, usually with some animation and music (which were sometimes better than those in the game itself); believe me, I could easily add hundreds of Internet Archive links to rare books right now except for the fact that the uploaders converted them to crap e-editions with removed page numbers. I don't see anything like that in Moondust so it's likely someone's personal copy they converted to a PDF; it's clearly the original paperback with page numbers and a bookstore sticker on the cover and everything. Since Swann died in 1976 and the last reprint as far as ISFDB (and WorldCat) say was in 1977 I doubt anyone would care if a PDF was linked to here; any serious collector would want a physical copy. My suggestion would be to un-reject it. Barring that, I'll just go ahead and make a note with the address of the PDF but not hot-linked so people know where it is but actually have to paste the URL into the address bar themselves in order to get it. --Username (talk) 17:47, 25 January 2024 (EST)
This guy, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?286234, runs the site. Looks legit to me; he even published a magazine of the same title. --Username (talk) 18:08, 25 January 2024 (EST)
The question about the status of Luminist-hosted PDF files is an interesting one. I should first note that I became aware of the Luminist Web site back in 2010 when we were given permission to link to Luminist-hosted images. I was under the impression that the files that they host were similar to Gutenberg-hosted "copyright-cleared" files, which is why I have been approving their addition for the last few years.
However, reading the copyright statement on the main Luminist page:
  • This collection may contain copyrighted material which has not been specifically authorized for our use. The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) provides for making “fair use” copies of copyrighted materials under certain conditions, including that that the reproduction is not to be used commercially or “for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research.” By accessing files linked to this site you are agreeing to abide by these restrictions. If you do not agree, do not download. If any copyright owner objects to our inclusion of their material on this web site, please do not harass our hosting providers; just contact us with the pertinent information. We will remove contested content promptly upon receipt of legitimate requests. Readers who wish to obtain a permanent copy of any item are encouraged to acquire one from a bookseller of their choice. Readers may contact us for assistance in locating copies for purchase.
I see that they expect their users to download PDF files for "private study, scholarship, or research" purposes and, apparently, not for permanent use. This relies on an interpretation of the "fair use" doctrine which seems a bit too stretchy to me, but I am not an expert in the field. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:09, 25 January 2024 (EST)
OK, sounds good to me, "private study" clearly can mean reading the book and since they're being linked at ISFDB that covers the scholarship/research part. Also, what I took to be a Galactic Journey magazine is just a few random pages from the webzine with a couple of essay links, 1 of which is movie-related and probably doesn't qualify, but there's some Hugo Award nomination so I guess they count; the first entry is totally blank and was actually entered by user "galacticjourney" himself with mods questioning on his page why he entered it since it's a webzine. The site is still running currently and has hundreds of essays, many of which would be suitable for entry here, I'm sure. --Username (talk) 18:25, 25 January 2024 (EST)
Let me clarify what I meant by "a bit too stretchy". The part of the Copyright Law that they cite -- "for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research" -- doesn't come from the "fair use" clause (Section 107 of the Copyright Act.) Instead it comes from Section 108, "Reproduction by libraries and archives". Section 108 is a lengthy section with a set of provisions that are completely different from the "fair use" provisions in Section 107. It's odd that the Luminist Web site cites Section 108 ("libraries and archives") language to support what they state is a Section 107 ("fair use") exception.
I should add that both Section 107 and Section 108 lawsuits can get complex and technical as we saw during Hachette v. Internet Archive in 2020-2023. My knowledge of these topics is very limited, but hopefully other editors may have more in-depth knowledge and/or relevant experience in this field. Ahasuerus (talk) 21:38, 25 January 2024 (EST)
I have started a Rules and Standards discussion to see if we can come up with unambiguous rules for linking to third party-hosted texts. Ahasuerus (talk) 20:50, 26 January 2024 (EST)

Reactor?!?

I was at my awful local public library printing out various articles and short stories for free which is the only positive thing about libraries these days and after my hour was up I realized I forgot to check Tor.com to see if they published any new fiction (horror only, please, no SF or fantasy) so I checked when I got home and got a scary-looking page which made me think a computer virus had finally taken hold of my laptop after not having one for many years but it turns out that Tor apparently has re-named themselves Reactor. Is anyone else aware of this? --Username (talk) 17:08, 26 January 2024 (EST)

Yes, they announced it a few weeks ago. New site, new name (to differentiate them from the Tor.com publisher), same team, same contents. All the old links to their old site should be forwarding cleanly to the new one. Annie (talk) 17:30, 26 January 2024 (EST)
And the announcement and Q&A about it. Annie (talk) 17:31, 26 January 2024 (EST)
I suspect that the part of the FAQ that is most likely to affect us is this:
  • SFF literature is still the heart of what we do, and that’s our priority. We’ll just also be open to related subjects of interest, from nonfic to romantasy, pirates to gardening, and so on.
So it looks like they will have more non-genre content going forward, but they expect to remain primarily SF-oriented for the foreseeable future. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:23, 26 January 2024 (EST)

Chinese Godzilla?

https://archive.org/search?query=%E6%80%AA%E7%8D%A3%E3%82%B4%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A9&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22; If anyone knows what this is about and decides it warrants entering, thanks. --Username (talk) 18:18, 29 January 2024 (EST)

Magic German Cats

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?33710; There was a 1999 German edition under a new title, https://archive.org/details/katmagie13katten0000unse, in case anyone fluent wants to enter that. --Username (talk) 10:02, 30 January 2024 (EST)

ZOLTAR

[2]; Polish primary verifier seemed to be very active in 2012 and then nothing, they left a lot of their 300+ PV unfinished with missing info, mentioning this in case anyone fluent in Polish wants to follow up on any of them and add or fix anything. I thought of this before but remembered it today after finding a photo for Jerzy Sosnowski on FantLab and an archived copy of the anthology PL +50 which his story on ISFDB appears in. --Username (talk) 12:45, 30 January 2024 (EST)

verification email

I have tried several times to elicit a verification email but nothing has arrived. I've checked junk & trash as well. Is this simply not working? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Starman99 (talkcontribs) .

I am afraid this is a common occurrence, which we discuss in the ISFDB FAQ:
  • Different email servers have different automated rules which may block email coming from certain Web sites, which makes it hard to tell what's preventing ISFDB confirmation email from being delivered to your mailbox.
  • Note, however, that confirmation emails are optional as far as ISFDB is concerned. As long as you can log in, you have full access to all ISFDB features including Advanced Search, display preferences, submission creation etc.
Since you were able to post the message above, you should be all set :-) Ahasuerus (talk) 18:11, 30 January 2024 (EST)

Ace Dates

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5872024; Can someone on the long list of editors find out where someone got month from? Whoever entered many of these old PB long ago was very random about noting where they got the month, but I remember it was a checklist or something so that's likely where this one came from, too. I thought it would be obvious why I added the month since it's there throughout the contents but I guess not. --Username (talk) 23:27, 30 January 2024 (EST)

Berthon

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=theodore+le&type=Name; Space in first entry separates same essay from its appearances elsewhere; no essay title page I can find but I did see a contents page of Frankenstein File that says, um, Ted Le Berthon, https://www.ebay.com/itm/334647759422. So, if anyone can verify, a merge or variant will be needed. --Username (talk) 00:08, 31 January 2024 (EST)

I'm looking for a book title

Hello everyone, I'm looking for a book title. I read the book years ago probably in the 80s. A quick summary the world is divided by a massive mountain range. I think that the protagonist must climb the mountain range in order to become the ruler. They climb the mountain only to find a deep valley on the other side with an even higher mountain range behind it. The protagonist ultimately climbs the second mountain range where they find another land on the far side with another intelligent species. This has been driving me batty and I would appreciate it if anyone knows what this books title is and who wrote it. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment added by Firefighterbgrg (talkcontribs) 19:21, February 1, 2024‎

If no one here is able to help you, we have a section in our FAQ that gives several places where you can ask for help finding the book. Good luck! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:15, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Darrah Chavey

I learn via Ansible today that Darrah Chavey left this mortal coil on 6 January. He was always a learned and consistent editor to work alongside at the ISFDB... Happy trails Darrah, Rest In Peace. :( PeteYoung (talk) 10:39, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Yes, indeed. There was a brief Community Portal discussion on 2024-01-11 and Darrah's database record was updated. RIP. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:01, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Gardner F. Fox's text story in "Strange Adventures"

Earlier today a Usenet poster pointed out that Gardner F. Fox published "The Magic Maker of Rann", a text story, in the comic Strange Adventures #226. The story is lavishly illustrated, but the text works just fine even if you were to reprint it without illustrations, which is how we determine whether a story is "graphic".

The whole thing is available online, illustrations included. Should we treat Strange Adventures as a non-genre periodical and list this story? Ahasuerus (talk) 16:32, 2 February 2024 (EST)

I've entered a number of Eando Binder stories from the Lieutenant Jon Jarl of the Space Patrol series that originally appeared in Captain Marvel Adventures comic, and I entered them in exactly the manner you suggest. I believe some of these stories have been reprinted as text alone, so I felt I was on pretty safe ground. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 16:43, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Lost Ark Storybook

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5880702; ISBN belongs to Scholastic edition judging by a back cover I saw online. There's a later (3rd) trade printing on Archive.org with trade and library ISBN on the copyright page so either this record should be made Scholastic or a new record created for Random House edition(s). I've been adding dozens of Wikipedia links to novelizations recently and I've come across some other issues like this (only one I can remember is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade by Anne Digby which has pub. series as Hippo Books but that actually belongs to the UK edition which I made a new record for) so when these are approved a check and some fixing/adding is probably needed for at least a few of them. --Username (talk) 12:50, 3 February 2024 (EST)

Rise of the Silver Surfer

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?346021; I made an edit fixing typo "udpated" to "updated", surprisingly the only such error on all of ISFDB, and realized that this edition was likely never published with AbeBooks having a weird "cover to be unveiled" photo. So unless someone can find evidence of a copy I think this should get the unpublished date. --Username (talk) 19:30, 3 February 2024 (EST)

Parnassus Wizard of Earthsea

https://archive.org/details/wizardofearthsea00ursu; I added a link to a Parnassus edition based on someone's extensive notes here (no number line or smudge on title page) but there are some editions of this book only linked from Open Library including the one above which has a price much higher than any other book from the publisher on ISFDB but copyright page has same info as 1969 2nd printing so if anyone knows a way to determine the date a new edition can be added. There's an ancient ISFDB bibliography from 2006 by Ahasuerus, https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Author:Ursula_K._Le_Guin, which could probably use some updating unless it's been updated somewhere else. --Username (talk) 20:08, 4 February 2024 (EST)

Pranks

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?17626; I've made edits for all editions before, original 1983 Amazon cover seems to have disappeared leading to a broken image so I replaced it, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5882029, then I replaced OL/Archive cover which is too dark with an Amazon cover, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5882020, that isn't great but is brighter and still retains the sparkly stuff on the title that Leisure used to attract people to buy their books which then led to disappointment when the buyers realized the novels themselves were usually crap, the latest edition is fine as is, so now I think the 1983 edition with the wrong price and ISBN should be deleted and the image uploaded by Chris J. should be removed from the Wiki since it seems to be the badly creased cover that's still on Amazon with unnecessary back cover included. --Username (talk) 11:17, 5 February 2024 (EST)

Felix Kelly

I entered new records for Faber anthologies Best Murder Stories and Best Murder Stories 2 which are mostly genre or by genre authors; I also looked at Best Tales of Terror, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?4213, and even though I know I've seen that cover many times I never noticed until seeing it full-sized on FantLab that there's a very clear signature lower right, FELIX KELLY. I entered that in an edit but the problem is that the record for him, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?255975, might be the same artist who did the 1956 art but can't be the guy from 1879. So there may be 2 Felix Kellys in case anyone can find out more and separate them into 2 records; it's also possible that the 1956 art was not new but taken from something drawn by the older Kelly. --Username (talk) 10:09, 6 February 2024 (EST)

Also added Margaret Wolpe as cover artist for Best Tales of Terror 2; no signature I can see but FantLab credits her + there's a copy on Dalby's site whose front flap says she did "jacket design" and the art does look like many of her other Faber covers. Also greatly updated her record with lots of bio info and noted she was married to Berthold, also an artist, and updated his record as well. Dalby's copy has a pounds price sticker covering another pound price so I'm getting the impression Faber reprinted their anthologies many times with no way to tell except the prices kept getting higher; lots of printings are probably missing so if anyone has any not on ISFDB it would be good to enter them. --Username (talk) 11:03, 6 February 2024 (EST)

The Adventure of the Peerless Peer

Are there any objections to converting this to a novella? The recent ebook reprint is marked as 27k words by Kobo USA and looking at the page numbers and some of the other editions, it does feel too small to be a novel. Thanks! Annie (talk) 17:41, 6 February 2024 (EST)

It's definitely a novella. The Titan Books edition (2011) is well over 200 pages and looks like a bona fide novel, but its apparent length is due to the addition of a very long promotional excerpt from Kim Newman's Moriarty: The Hound of the D'Urbervilles. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:16, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Termush - convert to novella

Another recent reprint shows this one as 25k words in English (Kobo USA count) which will leave it well short of 40K in its original Danish as well. Any objections to converting this to a novella? Annie (talk) 18:27, 6 February 2024 (EST)

John Stanley

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5883789; See my note about artist, that Little Lulu credit in the original Stanley record belongs with I's record because, as my note in the original says, he was born in '39 or '40 so he would only have been 9 or 10 if he did that art which is unlikely; this is the right Stanley, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stanley_(cartoonist). The Melvin Monster credits belong with I, too. I have to assume the Fengriffen Stanley is not the same as I because it's a UK edition and he's American plus it's a photograph, not drawn. --Username (talk) 00:10, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Doolin

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?431777; Late PV entered James Doolin based on signature but there is none, FantLab photo has initials JPD, it's actually Joseph Doolin, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?27894, and he has an entry for the same art, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1590968. --Username (talk) 10:48, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Uncorrected Proofs

I'm holding this submission to update this record. I noticed that the record states that it was unpublished (8888-00-00), yet there appears to be a cover that was just added. More importantly it also describes this as an "uncorrected proof" and I had thought that proofs were outside of our scope. The policy specifically excludes Advance Reading Copies unless available for sale to the public. Do uncorrected proofs differ from ARCs in terms of determining scope? This seems straightforward to me and I believe the publication should be deleted. If others disagree and this requires a full discussion, we can move this the the Rules and Standards board. Thoughts? Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:59, 7 February 2024 (EST)

I read the rules the same way you do - ARCs and uncorrected proofs are out. However, we do keep records of unpublished but announced books (these are in scope under the announced but never published (entered as "unpublished") part of ROA) so I would not delete this one as it is under that category. So ARC/uncorrected proof of a book that comes out will not be eligible but if the book never makes it out, adding the notes about it into the 8888 book are fine I think. Annie (talk) 11:22, 7 February 2024 (EST)
Comparing this publication record with other, published, editions of the book, I note that it has a different ISBN in addition to a different publisher name. I typically enter announced-then-canceled ISBNs as 8888-00-00 publication records under the rule referenced by Annie. Their presence in our database helps answer a common question: "Whatever happened to this apparent first edition? Why can't I find any copies for sale?" We all know how obsessed collectors can get when it comes to first editions and our database is frequently the only readily accessible place that explains what happened to a "disappeared" ISBN. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:51, 7 February 2024 (EST)
I've no argument with a publication record for an announced, but unpublished book. However, an unpublished book and an uncorrected proof are two different things. The notes on this record confuse the issue as to what the record represents. The addition of a cover scan and artist further confuses things. How are we able to display a cover of a book that was never published? I would suggest that the notes be reworked to indicate that a proof was done as evidence of the planned publication. We could replace the first two sentences with "The Bluejay Books imprint was dissolved late in 1986 just after an uncorrected proof for this planned edition was printed in September of that year." I would also recommend deleting the cover of the proof and rejecting the addition of an artist. I do worry that if we were to make an exception and allow a record specifically for an uncorrected proof when the book is never published, it would encourage the addition of other proofs and ARCs especially by those editors who surmise rules by examples of what is already in the database. If others think this should be a valid exception to allow records for proofs, then we should document it in the scope page as is done with ARCs offered for sale. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:00, 7 February 2024 (EST)
That sounds like a plan and the proposed change in the notes sounds fine to me - that will make it clear that the record is here because the book was announced and not because it had an ARC/uncorrected proofs done. I am at two minds about the cover - if it was announced with the book, recording it makes sense as it may help trace it to an artist later on and as it is part of the record after all. But other from that - I agree that we need to be careful not to confuse ARCs and unpublished books per se - although when a publication fails through often varies so there are ARCs out there for books that do not make it - that one being an example. Maybe all we need is to strengthen the language to specify that the exclusion is for books that end up being published - thus allowing the usecase we have here without a concern. Annie (talk) 19:06, 7 February 2024 (EST)
I agree that the pub record should stay because it falls under "announced but never published" and agree with Ron that the problem with it as it stands is that the pub note gives the impression that the record has been created for the proof, not the unpublished book. Ron's tweak to the pub note solves this problem.
Further notes and suggestions:
1) I agree that mentioning the proof in the pub note is a good idea. It is evidence that the book was announced.
2) I definitely think the cover image should be deleted. It should either be omitted or of the final cover. The latter assumes the publisher reached that stage and that we could find the image. All very unlikely. The cover image is more than just the artwork; it's also the colouring, wording, layout and typography and those aspects of the proof cover clearly wouldn't reflect the final version.
3) I would delete the OCLC/WorldCat External ID and just mention it in the pub note because it refers specifically to the uncorrected proof and not the unpublished final work.
4) I'm ambivalent about importing the coverart record. It's clear from the cover of the proof that Ron Walotsky was the intended artist so this falls under "announced but never published" but it would need a pub note explaining the source and why there's no image.
5) I'm broadly against making an exception for including ARC's / proofs when the book was unpublished although I do see Annie's point of view. But I think it's an unnecessary complication and veers back towards Ron's point about "encourage the addition of other proofs and ARC's especially by those editors who surmise rules by examples of what is already in the database" which is something I strongly agree we want to avoid. Also, if we do permit this exception, how do we implement it? Does it mean we would have two pub records: one for the unpublished work and one for the proof? Teallach (talk) 07:46, 8 February 2024 (EST)
I've gone ahead and change the notes as discussed above. I've also moved the Worldcat number and the cover into the notes so that it's clear the record is for the unpublished work and not for the proof. I'll reject the held edit. Let me know if someone disagrees with these changes. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:47, 12 February 2024 (EST)

N. Carroll

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?165703; The stories belong with the other Carroll but that ndp thing doesn't look right to me so maybe some other differing addition should replace it. --Username (talk) 23:58, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Author attribution on the three stories, initially credited to Noël Carrol, has been corrected. John Scifibones 07:57, 8 February 2024 (EST)
Thanks. I still think it's weird about that (ndp) because there's thousands of nom de plumes on ISFDB but this is the only one that has that added on the end of the name. --Username (talk) 08:28, 8 February 2024 (EST)
Well, we have some with (pseudonym) attached, and I'd think that'd be more meaningful (ndp isn't a colloquial abbreviation), or just a (I) attached. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 11:52, 8 February 2024 (EST)
I don't think we should use any parentheticals if we can avoid it. Since we have the (I) thing we already use extensively, I think that would be the best option for any that are currently using "(pseudonym)" as a disambiguator. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:20, 8 February 2024 (EST)
There are reasons why I chose to set the author up as Noel Carroll (ndp). However, it's not worth our time to debate. I have changed it to Noel Carroll. Not sure that the standards imply that Roman numerals are the preferred dismbiguator. Here is the applicable help section. Thanks for your interest, John Scifibones 14:06, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Karen Simmons

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1117998; She's the wife of Dan Simmons, credited for author photograph in the HC which can be seen on eBay, [3], art is likely by one of the regular Headline cover artists, Chris Moore maybe, but I don't see a signature. So her credit should be removed. I noticed a 2nd printing of the Headline PB on Archive.org which has that same art (and price) but different blurbs on top and bottom so I'm going to enter that now. --Username (talk) 10:37, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Hi! There's a primary verification by Faustus. It'd be meaningful if you contact him to shed some light on the actual credit. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 11:49, 8 February 2024 (EST)
Hi! There's no credit on the PB because there's no author photo like there is on the back of the HC. 2nd printing PB I just entered has no art credit. I'm sure someone here familiar with UK PB artists will identify it in some artist's book sooner or later but it's certainly not by Dan's wife. --Username (talk) 12:08, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Wesso

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5885644; Wiki says 1893. Anyone here who can find proof it's really 1894? I looked for a headstone but couldn't find one. --Username (talk) 13:49, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Story about the Premiere of Rite of Spring

I'm looking for the short story (probably from 1970s) about recreating the experience of the premiere of The Rite of Spring by giving all of the audience members a new drug. I believe this was in one of the better short story annuals of the era.

Most of my book collection is in storage, alas, so I can't find this by leafing through my old pulp. —The preceding unsigned comment added by Martycohen36 (talkcontribs) 17:38, February 8, 2024‎

Black Christmas

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?878255; While entering Wikipedia links for tons of novelizations I came across this rare 1976 one for the classic 1974 horror film. The original edition is apparently very rare because I've looked everywhere and can't find a copyright page that doesn't have the word FANGORIA on it because apparently Fangoria Magazine reprinted it in 2008 (although there is very little mention of this online). It does include the original info so I was able to enter the month (February, which is odd because you'd think it would be late in the year to capitalize on the holiday) but if anyone has a 1976 copy can you verify what it says on it? The film was Canadian and book says "Printed in Canada" so possibly it was only published there in which case the price will need a C added to it. --Username (talk) 09:18, 9 February 2024 (EST)

Riddle of the Exodus

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?185298; Not fiction, religious history book, https://openlibrary.org/works/OL8166080W/The_Riddle_of_the_Exodus?edition=key%3A/books/OL8566162M, probably should be deleted. --Username (talk) 11:30, 9 February 2024 (EST)

Deleted. I question if the author of the religious book is the same author as of the BattleTech books. I couldn't find anything on the religious author's sites that connect him to the BattleTech books. I will ping the active verifier for the BattleTech book to see if there is an author blurb. If not (or it indicates it is a different author), I will remove the the current author info from James D. Long. -- JLaTondre (talk) 12:31, 10 February 2024 (EST)
Philfreund has confirmed the BattleTech book provides no biographical information on the author. I have removed the author info from James D. Long as it is more than likely a different person. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:28, 11 February 2024 (EST)

Mutant Chronicles

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?250352; I replaced the cover; if anyone knows about the old one, whether it was an early one that was rejected or if it belongs to a different edition, a note about early art or a new record for the other edition if it exists would be good. --Username (talk) 20:09, 11 February 2024 (EST)

Lieutenant Teasdale R.O.N.

I need to make several changes to the pub records for Lieutenant Teasdale R.O.N.. The tp edition has a sole PV by the late Biomassbob but he somehow missed showing that Paula Goodlett is the co-author of the work. Amazon also shows the pub date for that edition as 2023-12-07, not 2023-12-02 as currently shown in the pub record. The 12-07 date makes more sense since all of the other self-published books by Gorg Hoff and Paula Goodlett have the ebook edition published the day prior to the tp edition. Any objection to my making changes? Phil (talk) 12:21, 12 February 2024 (EST)

Mistakes happen :) Go ahead - make sure the notes clarify where the date is coming from. And while you are there, we do not use "Independently published" as a publisher - so can you also fix that (author names are used when there is no publisher). I will sort out the other 2 we have under that publisher later today. Thanks for finding this one! :) Annie (talk) 13:44, 12 February 2024 (EST)
Done. I also corrected the title for the Interiorart maps record to match current standards. Phil (talk) 15:29, 12 February 2024 (EST)

Locus1 Secondary Verifications

Occasionally I come across pubs that have been SVd to Locus1 solely on the basis of their mention as the first edition of a later publication. The first one I encountered, as a very rookie editor, was this one: David Brin / Sundiver. I asked the SVer, Rtrace, about it and received this explanation. For the purposes of this thread I shall refer to these as "indirect listings".
The most recent one I have encountered is David Gerrold / Chess with a Dragon and it is this pub record that has prompted this thread because there is a clear contradiction between the SV to Locus1 and the pub note "Locus1 fails to list this pub (as of 2010-06-21)."
So my question is: should these indirect listings be allowed as SVs to Locus1? If I ruled the world I would not permit them because I don't think they conform to a general user's expectation of a Locus1 listing and they can cause confusion and inconsistencies as demonstrated by the Gerrold record. However, I do not feel strongly about this. I accept Ron's point that these indirect listings provide at least as much information as Clute/Nicholls and if the consensus is that they should be allowed then I can live quite happily with this.
However, if we do allow them then this Help page: Reference:Verification_Sources needs amendment. The matrix currently states that Locus1 provides "All" the information for fields such as Pages, Price and others but this is not true for the indirect listings. So either:
a) The relevant fields for Locus1 should be changed from "All" to "Some" (or maybe "Most").
or
b) A note should be added to the page explaining Locus1 indirect listings and clarifying that the values in the matrix for Locus1 only apply to full listings.
I prefer solution b).
Opinions please. Teallach (talk) 18:38, 15 February 2024 (EST)

An interesting point. So basically Locus1 has two types of records. One type covers editions published between 1984 and 2007 and includes publication details. The other type covers first editions (including editions published before 1984) and only lists their year and publisher. In an ideal world, we may want to create a separate Secondary Verification type for the latter and call it something like "Locus1-First Edition". Unfortunately, I am not sure it would be feasible since we have over 50,000 Locus1 verifications and separating them would be a very time-consuming project. If we decide not to do it, then I agree that we should update Reference:Verification_Sources to reflect the fact that not all Locus1-verified publication records can be expected to have publication level data.
As far as cases like David Gerrold's Chess with a Dragon go, I would reword Notes. Instead of saying "Locus1 fails to list this pub (as of 2010-06-21)", I would say something like "Locus1 doesn't have a detailed record for this edition, but multiple records for reprint editions refer to it as the first edition." Ahasuerus (talk) 12:48, 16 February 2024 (EST)
Yes, I realised when I started the thread that if we disallow the Locus1 indirect listings there could be a legacy issue of past records SVd to Locus1 that would be difficult to amend. This is often a problem when rules and standards are changed. So although in theory I would vote to disallow these cases, I accept it is not practical to do so. Consequently I am happy with leaving them as they are and updating Reference:Verification_Sources to reflect the fact that not all Locus1-verified publication records can be expected to have publication level data, which we both agree with.
I am working on David Gerrold / Chess with a Dragon and so will incorporate the change to the Locus1 pub note as you suggest. Teallach (talk) 17:08, 16 February 2024 (EST)
Hearing no objection, I have clarified the "Locus1" row of Reference:Verification Sources. Thanks for identifying this issue. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:12, 26 February 2024 (EST)
Thank you. Teallach (talk) 16:27, 2 March 2024 (EST)

Necronomicon in Sweden

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=d+bergho&type=Name; First name likely misspelled by PV (or magazine it appeared in) and essay is in second name's record with a much earlier date. --Username (talk) 23:47, 15 February 2024 (EST)

Garland Library of SF

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?8067; I made a couple of edits adding archived link, LCCN and cover image to Past Master when I noticed that there is 1 book in the series with a UK price and 1 without any price. So if anyone can fill in the missing one and add US one (moving UK to notes) for the other then everything will be uniform. --Username (talk) 09:44, 16 February 2024 (EST)

Lou J. Berger

The author has requested we change his canonical name from Lou J. Berger to "Lou J Berger" (no period after the "J"). See mod note here. Any objections? John Scifibones 15:32, 16 February 2024 (EST)

Checking Amazon.com's Look Inside, I see that the name was spelled "Lou J. Berger" in 2013-2014 and changed to "Lou J Berger" in 2015/2016. By now the majority of the stories use the "Lou J Berger" form of the name, so it should be our canonical name. We just need to make sure that we use the right form for the transitional (2015-2016) period. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:05, 16 February 2024 (EST)
Author attributions were reviewed and corrected resulting in compliance with the author's request. John Scifibones 15:16, 17 February 2024 (EST)

Locus on Microfilm

I recently added links to the handful of random print issues of Locus that are on Archive.org, one a very early issue and the others more recent, but I just stumbled on a huge cache of microfilmed 1973-2015 issues uploaded by MicrofilmIssueGenerator so I added a link, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5893289. Not sure if this is known about already but if not I'm sure it will come in handy here for research. --Username (talk) 19:39, 16 February 2024 (EST)

Server maintenance 2024-02-18 at 11am EST

The server will be down for maintenance later today (2024-02-18) between 11am and 11:10am EST. Ahasuerus (talk) 10:20, 18 February 2024 (EST)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:06, 18 February 2024 (EST)

Sword of the Samurai

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5894874; I have owned a copy since the 1980s and PV it here in 2022, copy uploaded to Archive.org last summer but not added until a few days ago, I think I got the right page count but if anyone disagrees feel free to tweak it a bit, you don't have to ask me. --Username (talk) 11:41, 18 February 2024 (EST)

I see a note in the UK edition's record here says [236] so I think they counted the illustration between the first 19 pages and the start of the novel itself. Should that count? --Username (talk) 11:44, 18 February 2024 (EST)
I would count it one way or the other, either as part of the introductory material (so, technically on [20]) or as part of the main material. A page number on that first page of main text would have been a useful guide.... I found an eBay listing of the Puffin edition that has some interior photographs. Not of the page in question, but the TOC and other leading material looks identical to what Archive.org shows for the edition you have. Extrapolating that to content that follows it suggests Reginald did count that illustration as part of the main material. Given the [236] there, what I will do is tweak your count to [236] and add a note about the illustration's appearance relative to the text on the surrounding pages. Just trying to save you an edit cycle; feel free to adjust it to be however you prefer -- I do not mean to insist on anything. --MartyD (talk) 12:07, 18 February 2024 (EST)
Sounds good, thanks. --Username (talk) 12:18, 18 February 2024 (EST)

Bibliographic impact of the 2023 Hugo Awards

The current pre-release cover of Samantha Mills's debut novel The Wings Upon Her Back says "Nebula and Hugo Award Winner". On 2024-02-17 Mills disavowed the award and announced that she would have "Hugo winner" removed from future editions of the book:

  • “Rabbit Test” unwins the Hugo: ... on Tuesday I’ll send a very awkward email to my agent and editor summarizing the situation ... and figure out the logistics of removing “Hugo winner” from the ebook and future printings. The first print run will be a limited edition novelty, I suppose? Jeez.

This may not be an isolated occurrence since, as Samantha Mills wrote (among other things):

  • On February 14, a report written by Jason Sanford and Chris M. Barkley was simultaneously released on the Genre Grapevine and File770. ... we also got a look at the validation list itself, aka the tables of frontrunner nominees being vetted for the final ballot, and a horrible pattern emerged, especially in the fiction categories: there were a whole lot of Chinese nominees in frontrunner positions who just… vanished, and never made it onto the final ballot. There were so many, in fact, that if I am reading this document correctly: not a single fiction winner (short story, novelette, novella, novel, or series) would have even been a finalist if those nominees hadn’t been taken off.
  • There’s an indicator of why in the apology letter from the admin who leaked the emails and validation tables: “We were told there was collusion in a Chinese publication that had published a nominations list, a slate as it were, and so those ballots were identified and eliminated.”

From our perspective, this means that we will need to:

  • Update the “Rabbit Test” Award record to indicate that the author disavowed the award, similar to how this award record explains that Judy-Lynn del Rey's posthumous "Best Professional Editor" award was refused by her husband Lester del Rey.
  • Keep an eye on The Wings Upon Her Back to make sure that the correct covers are used for the first and any subsequent editions of the novel.
  • Be on the lookout for possible other announcements of authors disavowing 2023 Hugo awards.
  • Occasionally check "Worldcon Intellectual Property" announcements. On January 30, 2024 they issued a statement censuring multiple people "for actions of the Hugo Administration Committee of the Chengdu Worldcon" and said that "There may be other actions taken or to be taken that are not in this announcement." If and when they make additional statements about the Hugos awarded at the 2023 Worldcon, we may need to update our records.

Ahasuerus (talk) 12:55, 19 February 2024 (EST)

Earlier today Adrian Tchaikovsky disavowed his 2023 Hugo award for Best Series on his Web site. The award record has been updated. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:56, 21 February 2024 (EST)
These notes are exactly the correct action for us, I think. If we had notes for an award year, it would probably be desirable to add something for the 2023 Hugos. Although, getting a properly neutral description of the controversy free of personal biases (and I have many in this instance), would be tricky. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
One of the challenges that the 2023 Hugos present is that it's still a developing story. What we knew 10 days ago is very different from what we know today. Perhaps we'll learn more in the future.
For example, back in late January I came across a re-post/translation of a Chinese fan's comments about the Hugos. The post stated that the fan had been involved in the Hugo process (committee member?) and that he or she had a conflict with Chinese members of the Hugo committee with various accusations flying back and forth. At the time I had trouble parsing the post, in part due to lacking context and in part due to the quality of the translation. In retrospect it may have been related to the following email sent by Dave McCarthy on June 7, 2023 at 6:18pm (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_QqmsxQkACoYcxSx2LVqbxD39-DJI_gS/view), which says:
  • Tomorrow I have a 4 hour meeting with my chinese counterparts to look at ballot detail and determine if any ballots are to be voided
Perhaps either this fan or other members of the 2023 Hugo committee may clarify matters at some point. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:33, 22 February 2024 (EST)
It would especially be useful to note that the nomination totals and the EPH points appear to be completely unreliable, since those are noted in each nomination award record. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
One thing that comes to mind is that we could change the way opening sentences are phrased. Instead of the current "1674 valid ballots cast, 944 valid ballots cast in category" we could say something like "According to the voting statistics released on 2024-01-20, there were 1674 valid ballots cast, 944 valid ballots cast in category". It's not much, but it would at least clarify which version of the stats our records use. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:20, 22 February 2024 (EST)
I've added your suggested text to the records in the Best Novel category. In addition to the ballot count at the head, I've also added it to the nomination numbers at the foot. I think it's more important there as that is where there is evidence of shenanigans. In any case, let me know if it looks good and I can update the remaining records or we tweak it if desired. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:26, 27 February 2024 (EST)
Everything looks good, thanks. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:40, 27 February 2024 (EST)
I recall that award year notes has been suggested before and there may be a feature request, though I suspect that how the award tables are structured may make this difficult. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
Yes, indeed. FR 1086, "Change the award year field to a drop-down list", says "Create a new record type for award years. We can call it something like "award year" or "award ceremony". Once we have it, we will be able to add notes to award years. Notes can be used to specify when the awards were announced, when and where they were given, eligibility rules changes, etc." Unfortunately, as you said, it would be fairly time-consuming to implement. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:12, 22 February 2024 (EST)
In any case, I do have one suggestion for the del Rey award record. We currently have the explanation of the non-acceptance of the award noted in the title field of what should be an untitled award. Perhaps we didn't have award level notes at the point that award was added. I feel that the verbiage in the title should be moved to notes and replaced with "untitled". --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
I agree. It's exactly as you said -- award records didn't have a Notes field back then. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:12, 22 February 2024 (EST)
I've updated this and expanded the comment as a note taking my queue from Judy-Lynn's Wikipedia article. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:26, 27 February 2024 (EST)
Thanks. I have hyper-linked Lester del Rey's name and clarified that he was Judy-Lynn's husband. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:40, 27 February 2024 (EST)

Kater-Bound

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?22308; On all of the web there seems to be only 1 mention of Borgo Press and Kater-Bound together, https://www.lawrenceperson.com/?p=22429, although it does get a handful of hits in a text search, https://archive.org/search?query=%22kater-bound%22+%22borgo%22&sin=TXT&sort=-addeddate. This Archive.org page, https://archive.org/search?query=compton+farewell+bliss&sort=-addeddate, shows 2 editions with one being Borgo but with price on front covered and Kater-Bound sticker on back. Could this be the mysterious Borgo HC mentioned in the book's record? Also, the note about artist is wrong because he's credited on copyright page and back cover, the latter of which can be seen in the cover image. TP PV doesn't respond much so I'm asking on this board. --Username (talk) 13:09, 19 February 2024 (EST)

The Archive.org copy is a library book, and Kater-Craft does library bindings. I believe it is not uncommon to have a retail hardcover edition and a library-binding hardcover edition of the same book. --MartyD (talk) 17:44, 19 February 2024 (EST)
Believe it or not, I have library hardcover versions of Ace Doubles. All should be listed in my opinion. MLB (talk) 01:00, 20 February 2024 (EST)

Miriam Allen de Ford

Per the Spaces in Names subsection of Template:PublicationFields:Author, Miriam Allen de Ford should be standardized as Miriam Allen deFord. However, we have a Miriam Allen de Ford alternate name which was recently edited so the notes copy the rules saying it should be standardized. Instead, I propose we merge the alternate name to the canonical name in accordance with the rules. As there are a number of verified pubs, I will point the verifiers to the this discussion, If there are any objections, then we should probably have a Rules and standards discussions. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:28, 19 February 2024 (EST)

I guess it would be like calling somebody named MacIntosh being called Mac Intosh. Still, I'll go with the majority. MLB (talk) 00:58, 20 February 2024 (EST)
No objection to merging, but I think the actual spelling of the name should be made clear in the notes. Linguist (talk) 04:06, 20 February 2024 (EST).
No objection, I had three pubs, two in Croatian language I already corrected, but I have also one in Serbian language. In Serbian language names are written as they are pronounced, in this case same as written. Should I change this one as well? This is publication in question: https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2277217 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Debolestis (talkcontribs) .

Ruben De Anda

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1476655; https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2552505; Can anyone find proof that these are the same artists? --Username (talk) 19:45, 20 February 2024 (EST)

I don't know. But The Galaxy Primes (Ace 1976) appears also to be signed by R. De Anda. Horzel (talk) 08:52, 23 February 2024 (EST)
Probably is but since last name is mostly covered it's hard to tell. PV Willem H. noted that it may be Rafael M. De Soto but I doubt it because he has no original cover credits on ISFDB after 1964 and this book is from 1976. There's a copy on Archive.org which I've added a link to in a PENDING edit. --Username (talk) 09:44, 23 February 2024 (EST)

Steve Miller: RIP

For those who may not have seen an announcement, Steve Miller, co-author of the Liaden Universe, et al., died on February 20, 2024 at his home in Maine. His wife, author Sharon Lee, posted this obituary. Phil (talk) 07:41, 22 February 2024 (EST)

I added photo from FantLab which is a little bigger and shows his face better than Fantastic Fiction's photo. --Username (talk) 17:42, 22 February 2024 (EST)

Last User Activity

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?895338; What does this mean exactly? There was a question of contacting this PV RedDragonBooks about something related to a mod note I made and checking their page the last answer they gave or contribution they made was in spring of 2022 but the activity at the bottom of the record linked above says a few days ago. --Username (talk) 09:03, 22 February 2024 (EST)

There are two databases: The wiki and the bibliographic database. What you see for User Contributions on their user/talk page is just their Wiki edits. What you see for Last User Activity in the verifiers' list is the date of their last activity in the bibliographic side -- the Wiki software does not know about that, only about the Wiki. That user did some verifications on 2024-02-18 but hasn't posted anything to the wiki in the past couple of years. --MartyD (talk) 13:56, 22 February 2024 (EST)
Just a quick note to clarify that the software that displays the Last User Activity date checks both the Wiki side and the database side. It then displays the latest date that it finds. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:36, 22 February 2024 (EST)

Ermengarde Fisk = Evelyn E. Smith?

One of my friends pointed me at issue #10 of the 'zine Oopsla, specifically page 13. The "SHORT STORIES" section says:

 Third goes to another brand-new author, Evelyn E. Smith ... is better known to fandom as the pseudonymous authoress of the "New York Letter" column in Slant--yeah, that's right, she's Ermengarde Fiske.

As I don't know what the accuracy of fan writing was like nearly two decades before I was born, I don't know how reliable this info might be. Any objections to varianting these author records? ErsatzCulture (talk) 13:49, 23 February 2024 (EST)

We already have a pseudonym there: Evelyn Smythe (intentional corruption of Evelyn Smyth E.?) which I think is based exactly on the note you cited above. I am not sure if we have enough evidence to connect the two Evelyn E. Smith's though - while very very likely, the name is not very uncommon. Maybe add some notes to both accounts until we find a better proof that the two are one and the same? Annie (talk) 14:50, 23 February 2024 (EST)
Never mind, I looked at the fanzine itself now - you actually missed the smoking gun while quoting - that award over there is for a story that belongs to Evelyn E. Smith (Tea Tray in the Sky) - so yes, they are the same person. Connect them away. Annie (talk) 14:54, 23 February 2024 (EST)
This is now done. Had a bit of a headscratcher with Ermengarde Fiske having its own alternate names, but I think everything is now correct, with all the authors pointing at Evelyn E. Smith as the canonical, and all of the title records having parent titles with that author record. However I wouldn't say no if someone wants to double check that everything is now as it should be. Thanks! ErsatzCulture (talk) 13:44, 27 February 2024 (EST)

J. Watson

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?224483; What do you suggest is best to add to differ 1966 Thunderbirds artist from Leading Edge writer/artist? He's on Wikipedia so I'll add that link (as Jim Watson). --Username (talk) 19:48, 24 February 2024 (EST)

See Help:How_to_separate_two_authors_with_the_same_name for ideas. Looks like "James Watson (1960s)" would work here and might be more helpful than "(I)". The situation is quite similar to the Jame Cooper examples given in that bullet. In light of the disparity in volume between their bibliographies, I think you could treat the James Watson from the 1980s as "more prominent/widely known in the Spec-Fic world" and leave it with no embedded disambiguation. --MartyD (talk) 12:04, 25 February 2024 (EST)
OK, thanks. --Username (talk) 12:30, 25 February 2024 (EST)

Tem Title

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?67830; Archived link to recently uploaded Chrysalis 9 HC just added by me in a PENDING edit, PV doesn't respond much, PB has one or two active PV so if they can verify it's Hit-and-Run there, too, not Hit-and-Miss, title should be changed. I vaguely remember asking about this long ago after noticing title was different in Tem's online bibliography. --Username (talk) 15:32, 25 February 2024 (EST)

The Hole of the Pit

https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal/Archive/Archive53#Uncanny_Banquet_and_Leisure; Exactly a year-and-a-half ago I asked about Uncanny Banquet and noted the rare novel contained in it; a copy of the Oleander Press edition including the novel with a short story and a poem was recently added to Archive.org so I've added a link in a PENDING edit. Still waiting for a copy of that anthology to show up somewhere...anywhere. --Username (talk) 18:55, 25 February 2024 (EST)

Series sort order?

I was looking at a page for a series and couldn't figure out the basis for the order of the sub-series. First come the numbered sub-series, in numerical order. Then the 'loose' items in chronological order. Then come the unnumbered sub-series, which are neither alphabetical or chronological by any of their contained titles. Is there a particular order to them? ../Doug H (talk) 09:04, 28 February 2024 (EST)

The only order that the display software enforces is as you described above: all numbered sub-series are displayed first and the rest are displayed randomly. I think it would be fairly easy to display unnumbered sub-series alphabetically. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
(after edit conflict) A more thorough review discovered that Summary pages were already sorting unnumbered sub-series alphabetically. I have adjusted the software to do the same on Series pages. Thanks for identifying the problem! Ahasuerus (talk) 18:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
Since series tend to be written in order, displaying the unnumbered titles in chronological order may make more sense. Although, sub-series wouldn't have a date and extrapolating the date from the earliest contained title would be more complex. Perhaps, numbered items followed by unnumbered sub-series followed by everything else in chronological order. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:34, 28 February 2024 (EST)
Could you please clarify what you mean by "items" in this case? Series may contain both title records and sub-series records. They use different, unrelated, numbering systems. For example, a series may contain 3 titles numbered "0.5", "1" and "2", as well as two sub-series numbered "1" and "2". Ahasuerus (talk) 19:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
I intended items to mean both title records amd sub-series records, either of which may be numbered. What I was suggesting is that within a series (parent), each numbered item would display based on the numbering. In your example, there would be a conflict as there are both titles numbered "1" and "2" and sub-series numbered "1" and "2". Ideally, we would never assert that both a title and a sub-series should occur first in the parent series. Clearly, numbering only applies within the parent series. I believe that for numbered "items", I am not suggesting any changes to how things currently work. I had suggested a chronological sort for the remaining items based on your now corrected statement that they were displayed randomly. Given that we're already sorting alphabetically, it's probably fine to leave things as they are, unless others think a chronological sort would be preferable. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:13, 28 February 2024 (EST)

BattleTech Universe

The BattleTech Universe series and it's sub-series all list having an Issue Grid, which suggests they are Serials / Magazines. They look like books to me. Is it a mistake in the software or entry? Might the existence of one Serial in the series propagate? ../Doug H (talk) 09:12, 29 February 2024 (EST)

Yep - if there is one magazine series somewhere in the sub series inside of a bigger series, the whole set and any sunsets of it shows the grid links. It is how the software is built. Annie (talk) 10:00, 29 February 2024 (EST)
Good catch. Bug 842, "Extraneous 'View Issue Grid' links on series pages", has been created. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:15, 29 February 2024 (EST)

Database Backup

Can you please save the database with InnoDB utf8mb4 so accented and Chinese characters will show up correctly? As it now with MyISAM utf8, Иван Константинович Айвазовский shows up as ИванКонстантинович Айвазовский. It makes it hard to work with the database and makes it a lot larger than it has to be. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Catpoolfan (talkcontribs) .

For historical reasons -- the ISFDB project started in 1995 -- ISFDB tables use "latin1_swedish_ci". You can see it if you run "SELECT TABLE_CATALOG, TABLE_SCHEMA, TABLE_NAME, TABLE_COLLATION FROM INFORMATION_SCHEMA.TABLES" in MySQL. Non-Latin-1 Unicode characters are stored in the database as HTML entities. When you see "й" (i.e. "&#1081") displayed, that's because that's what's stored in the database.
There are plans to migrate from HTML entities to native Unicode, but it will be a major project with a number of dependencies. There is no ETA at this time. Ahasuerus (talk) 10:42, 1 March 2024 (EST)

I Stole You

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisheryear.cgi?60942+2017; A copy of Tripping... was recently uploaded so I added a link and the stories' numbers, there's also supposedly a copy of Ringman's collection but when I saw the red hardcover I knew that couldn't be right and it wasn't; it's a copy of some old romance novel by Jane Aiken Hodge. I checked all the usual sites but can't get contents page of TP so if anyone can or owns a copy fill in the page numbers if you wish. --Username (talk) 17:40, 1 March 2024 (EST)

Mandarin

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5905095; Is anyone familiar with Mandarin paperbacks who can say why ISBN on back cover doesn't match any other Mandarin PB on ISFDB which (almost) all start with 0-7493? This book's ISBN, 0-09, seems to have been used by Cresset per online searching but there is no mention of them anywhere in it; a couple of Cresset Editions books on ISFDB do have an ISBN which starts with that. --Username (talk) 13:14, 2 March 2024 (EST)

Donkerste Dag

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5905146; Nico Richter has 1 credit on ISFDB for a German Neil Gaiman edition but here he's credited for design. Sheila Metzner is a famed artist and I don't know what Ortikol is so if anyone thinks any of them should be entered as cover artist they can do that. --Username (talk) 14:12, 2 March 2024 (EST)

Shadow Regions

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295434; The woman who ran the publisher whose imprint put out this anthology, Tammy Perron, apparently was a crook who didn't pay most of the authors or even give some of them copies which is detailed in the link from Absolute Write that I added some time ago. In September 2023 some mysterious person uploaded a copy on Archive.org and it was finally added a few weeks ago (I stumbled on it completely by accident) so I've added a link in a PENDING edit along with the price and the stories' numbers. Maybe it was one of the authors using their own copy because this seems a very rare book with WorldCat not finding any copies; there's only 1 sad review on Goodreads where one of the authors crows about having a story in it...little did he know. According to ISFDB only 3 of the 20 stories have been reprinted since it came out nearly two decades ago so if anyone was interested in reading it you should do so because you never know if old Tammy may crawl out of the woodwork to have it taken down. --Username (talk) 18:55, 2 March 2024 (EST)

Adam L. G. Nevill canonical name

I think it is time to swap the canonical name here to Adam L. G. Nevill. Any objections? Annie (talk) 15:18, 4 March 2024 (EST)

We have 8 book-length works as by Adam Nevill and 8 book titles as by Adam L. G. Nevill. All books published over the last 5 years have appeared exclusively as by "Adam L. G. Nevill". SHORTFICTION: 8 as by "Adam Nevill" and 27 as by "Adam L. G. Nevill".
Given the numbers and the timeline, I think it's fair to say that "Adam L. G. Nevill" is the most recognizable form of his name within the genre as of 2024. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:19, 4 March 2024 (EST)

The Under-People

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3046564; https://archive.org/search?query=the-under-people&sort=-addeddate; No reason for this to be here, it's one of dozens of junk science "non-fiction" books by Norman/Steiger published back in the day. I think it should be deleted. --Username (talk) 23:52, 4 March 2024 (EST)

Collection contents question

When adding contents to a collection which is authored using a variant name, if there is no indication to the contrary, should all the content titles be attributed to the variant author name and then be made a variant of the canonical author name titles if they do not exist? Example: The Witching Hour. The collection author is James Gunn. The copyright page shows the content copyrights as by James Gunn. The included content titles only exist as by the canonical name James E. Gunn. Should these be changed to being authored by James Gunn and then made into variants? Phil (talk) 09:28, 5 March 2024 (EST)

Yes. Remove the three fiction titles, add the three new titles and variant to the canonicals. John Scifibones 09:57, 5 March 2024 (EST)
Done. Thanks.Phil (talk) 11:05, 5 March 2024 (EST)

Hautala Covers

I was entering edits for Rick Hautala books, found Jacobus signature on Moon Walker so Tim Jacobus was entered as the artist; Little Brothers, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?20465, has a name or initials on the lower right, can anyone find out who that is? --Username (talk) 10:45, 5 March 2024 (EST)

ISFDB Server downtime -- 2024-03-06 at 6pm

The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance on 2024-03-06 between 6:00pm and 6:15pm EST. Both the database and the Wiki will be unavailable. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:13, 6 March 2024 (EST)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:05, 6 March 2024 (EST)

Simulacrum

Tonight I accidentally ended up on the archived SpecFicWorld site which used to be a major hub of speculative fiction but seems to have entirely disappeared from the modern web (whatever you do, don't type specficworld.com on Google and click the link whose description is "Daftar Situs Agen Judi Slot Online Terpercaya Resmi 2023"; that will NOT lead you to what you're looking for). Only issue #9 of Simulacrum, edited and published by the guy who ran the site, Doyle Eldon Wilmoth, Jr., has an archived PDF link but while searching, as I usually do, for random text from an archived story on Google to try and find out if there are any modern sites that still include it I got one hit, the late Tanith Lee's site daughterofthenight.com, because that issue included a reprint of a story by her from Interzone Magazine. That led me to this, https://archive.org/details/@zatoichi01?query=simulacrum&sort=title, which, according to Galactic Central, is the entire 14-issue run. I rarely enter magazines but any self-moderators who don't have to wait for approval can probably do these quickly without much trouble since the contents are a mixture of reprints which will need importing and originals (or at least they're not on this site). There are many well-known authors and artists included. --Username (talk) 23:59, 7 March 2024 (EST)

I'll take a look at it and see what I can do. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:48, 8 March 2024 (EST)
I have through issue 10 entered. I'll finish up with the remaining four later. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:35, 8 March 2024 (EST)
I've entered all 14 issues now. You can see them here. I did not combine the years into editor series because there are only 14 issues so leaving them all separate makes it easier to get to them (one less click-through). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:32, 12 March 2024 (EDT)

Neglected moderation

Last time I changed something in ISFDB it took days to get a single non-controversial change accepted with hundreds of pending changes. Now it takes weeks with thousands of pending changes. When looking a the recent changes I see lots of self acceptance and accepted automatic changes, but only little moderator activity.

Remembering that it takes at least 4 or 5 rounds to add all information for a translated book that amounts to waiting multiple months for a single book.

If you don't want contributors anymore then say so clearly! ATM I'd wonder if you find people sticking with ISFDB for a longer time with that situation.

To give you an indication how this should go: I added a new word to Wiktionary, it took 4 minutes for first reaction and 1:15 to reach the final entry. --Stoecker (talk) 16:31, 8 March 2024 (EST)

Longer approval times have definitely been a problem lately. Currently we have 1976 pending submissions, 1137 of them by User:Username (many are straightforward additions of archive.org links to publication records), 124 by User:Fixer (a robot account) and the remaining 715 are by other editors.
That said, the ISFDB editing process is very different from what Wikipedia and its offshoot projects use. The latter are much easier to edit, but the quality of the end product varies tremendously. I wrote/rewrote dozens of Wikipedia articles in the mid-2000s, but eventually concluded that trying to keep articles accurate and coherent was going to be prohibitively time-consuming. I occasionally peek to see what has happened to them and their current state is pretty bad. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensheviks is full of confused nonsense.
We added the ability to self-approve a few years ago and we are slowly expanding the number of editors who can do so. Hopefully it will help matters going forward. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:56, 8 March 2024 (EST)
Well, my request to do so was simply ignored. --Stoecker (talk) 10:10, 16 March 2024 (EDT)
Nominations require support from other editors/moderators before they can be approved. If a nomination doesn't gain enough support, it is not approved. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:01, 16 March 2024 (EDT)
Which is an endless loop. Because moderators don't care I want self-moderation. But for that I need moderators to care which they don't. An unreachable goal. --Stoecker (talk) 10:05, 23 March 2024 (EDT)

Heide Oberheide

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?127989; I left a PV a note telling them that a T. Canty credit for Parke Godwin's novel Beloved Exile was actually by Oberheide so that will need fixing but another problem I found is that her page at The Paperback Palette says she was born in Canada in 1957, both very different than what ISFDB says. So does anyone know what the real info is? --Username (talk) 22:48, 9 March 2024 (EST)

Found this and this, which both agree on 1943 and Germany and have enough differences that neither seems to be the source for the other. They both strike me as fairly authoritative, especially that first one. --MartyD (talk) 11:23, 10 March 2024 (EDT)

Tales of Terror

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?291626; I added a link to the back cover image on Bookscans in a PENDING edit and noticed there are some copies on eBay which show the first page, 5, with "The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar" as a title, which means this shouldn't really be a novel but rather a collection of Poe stories adapted by Sudak. Does anyone own a copy who can verify the page numbers of the other stories so they can all be entered? --Username (talk) 12:13, 13 March 2024 (EDT)

Cover artist data entry rules updated

Please note that the "Artist" section of Template:PublicationFields:CoverArt has been updated to reflect current practices. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:02, 14 March 2024 (EDT)

The Message

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1471825; Obscure author and publisher but not obscure enough that it didn't get a Chinese translation, https://archive.org/search?query=brockman-robin&sort=-addeddate, in case anyone fluent wants to enter that; just don't title it The MASSAGE like the uploader did. --Username (talk) 18:37, 14 March 2024 (EDT)

YouTube audiobooks in or out?

I've placed this submission on hold because I'm unsure if YouTube audiobooks should be included here since they are generally not downloadable (instead being streamed). The rules include audiobooks, but also exclude "[w]orks published in a web-based publication and available exclusively as a Web page" (which is pretty much what a YouTube video is), and they say nothing about podcasts. Thoughts? Should this be a Rules and standards discussion? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:42, 20 March 2024 (EDT)

They are out under the exclusion as they are not downloadable. However we need to extend the Audio-book section of the inclusion section to match the ebooks/electronic publication one above it a bit - especially around podcasts which are not considered magazines for example. So maybe starting a discussion to clarify what audio-materials we want to index is the best choice (while keeping that one on hold until we decide what we want to do) :). Annie (talk) 15:09, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
Okay, moved it over there. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:33, 20 March 2024 (EDT)

Barcodes with prices hiding in plain sight

A lot of printed books have prices on their back covers hiding in plain sight. If you look at a barcode on the back cover, next to the ISBN, usually over the smaller barcode next to the ISBN one, there is a number sequence - for example 51595 or 51699. That means $15.95 / $16.99 (5 is the code for $, the rest is the price). The first example is from a book I pulled from my shelf (not genre), the second is from an Amazon book. As back covers are very often visible in Amazon (separately or as part of Look Inside), that may help with adding prices (with an appropriate note) even when Amazon and other retailer have their own ideas on what the price may be (or at the very least it can serve as a confirmation for the Amazon price). It is not there for all books (90000 is a very common code up there) but for the books that have it, it is as good as the old printed prices.

I propose to add this tidbit of information to the Price field help. Meanwhile, I am leaving it here for information :) Annie (talk) 17:21, 20 March 2024 (EDT)

Good idea to add this to the Help. I have sometimes used this for prices. You might like to expand the note to explain other currencies. The smaller 5 digit barcode is the supplementary section of the barcode and contains a EAN-5 code. The first of the five digits is a currency code. If the first digit is 9, that means the supplementary section does not contain price information. It's explained in this Wikipedia article. Teallach (talk) 18:28, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
Yep - we should add all the codes when we are adding the note to the help page. Thanks for the link to the Wiki page - I knew it was there, I did not think to look it up earlier today :) Annie (talk) 18:41, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
I agree that adding a section about EAN-5 codes to Template:PublicationFields:Price would be useful. We could list the commonly used first digits:
  • 0 and 1 -- UK
  • 3 - Australia
  • 4 - New Zealand
  • 5 - US
  • 6 - Canada
and explain special pseudo-price values, i.e. that "9999" means "100.00 or more" while "90000" means "no price given". We could then link to the Wikipedia article or an industry Web page for other scenarios. Ahasuerus (talk) 19:06, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
This is really useful. What will it take to get it added to the Help? Phil (talk) 08:14, 30 May 2024 (EDT)

Webzines to include?

Hello. I have two new pub submissions on hold as they pertain to new webzine entries. Do we want to include these?

Looking through the contents, I say we can include those. Not sure how long-lived these are going to be though... Comments/suggestions from other editors & moderators whether to include or not? (didn't look for past discussion where webzine inclusions were debated...) MagicUnk (talk) 15:35, 21 March 2024 (EDT)

Both produce issues and both are genre -zines. So they are eligible under the "Webzines, which are defined as online periodicals with distinct issues (note that online periodicals without distinct issues are not considered webzines)." rule. How long they survive is irrelevant - even if they produce a single issue, they are in. However, these records will need some massaging post approval :) Annie (talk) 15:41, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
Thought so. The help text says to post and query the editor community - we may want to update that and instead clarify that if a webzine has distinct issues, it is in by default? MagicUnk (talk) 16:09, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
Probably an oversight (we forgot it was there?) after we changed the ROA awhile back to include these. Which of the help pages?
PS: Note that awhile back we even dropped the requirement for the webzine to be genre allowing non-genre ones to be added as any other non-genre periodical (with only genre contents indexed). So yep - a webzine with issues is always in under the genre magazine rules or the non-genre periodical ones. Annie (talk) 16:22, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
Here - see webzine in that section. MagicUnk (talk) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
Ah, the one place I did not look at. :) Yep - that needs an update. I will start a discussion so we can get the language crafted. Annie (talk) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
Here we go - the proposed new language. Annie (talk) 11:26, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
Rules of Acquisition has it as you mention above - we may want to add non-genre periodicals role there explicitly. MagicUnk (talk) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
We do not have them called out in the print periodicals section either but if you think we should clarify that across the board, I won't object. Let's finish the audio-formats discussion we are currently having about changes in the same section of the ROA over in R&S and then I will initiate a discussion about this. Annie (talk) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
As an aside, I must say that I couldn't find the ROA immediately - I think it is an important section of the rules. Shouldn't we be adding a link on the main help page? MagicUnk (talk) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I know to look under Policy but you are right, it needs to be a lot more visible here - either as a sublink under the ISFDB Policy link or on its own in the same section. Annie (talk) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I've added a specific link to it on Help:Contents, which is found at the top of most help pages. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:18, 22 March 2024 (EDT)

ISFDB:Verification requests

The ISFDB:Verification requests board is not used much anymore. It seems ISFDB:Help desk and this board have pretty much supplanted it. Do we want to discontinue it? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:17, 22 March 2024 (EDT)

How about we can turn it into a broader board instead: "Assistance needed/Project Assistance Required/Something along these lines" for example - when an editor starts a project and notices other things that need adding/fixing or finds a source that may be useful and is unable/unwilling to work through it, they can request assistance there. Looking at CS, about half of the posts there in the last couple of years are from that nature and they choke the actual discussion threads and make it very hard for people to notice that something was posted in the discussions. It will be the counter-part of the Help Desk - come to the Help Desk if you want help getting the work done and learning how to do it; come to this board to post a project that needs work but you cannot/don't want to work on. Annie (talk) 14:59, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I'd be fine with that. I agree this board has gotten rather full lately, making it hard to keep track of things. So maybe change the title to ISFDB:Assistance requests or something? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:11, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I like the idea. "Assistance requests" may be a bit too narrow for what we are trying to define, but it's the closest that I can think of at the moment. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:46, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I like "Assistance Requests". If we ever come up with a better name, we can rename and forward. And we have the text under it to add a sentence that describes the scope better. Annie (talk) 15:53, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
"Help Wanted" ? ../Doug H (talk) 09:47, 23 March 2024 (EDT)
I think that there is potential for confusion between "Help desk" and "Help Wanted". Ideally, whatever name we come up with should clearly differentiate between the two boards. Ahasuerus (talk) 10:08, 23 March 2024 (EDT)
Maybe "Research Requests" or "Research Assistance"? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:45, 24 March 2024 (EDT)
I like "Research Assistance". Ahasuerus (talk) 15:13, 24 March 2024 (EDT)

(unindent) Are there any objections to changing ISFDB:Verification requests to Research Assistance? Ahasuerus (talk) 17:12, 4 April 2024 (EDT)

I'm okay with that. MagicUnk (talk) 06:10, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
If there are no objections, I will ask Nihonjoe to make the change tomorrow. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:50, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
De we want it to be ISFDB:Research Assistance to Research Assistance? The other can be a redirect. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:54, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
Probably ISFDB:Research Assistance in order to stay consistent with the majority of other "major" pages. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:05, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
Since there are no objections, please feel free to go ahead and move ISFDB:Verification requests to ISFDB:Research Assistance when you get a chance. Ahasuerus (talk) 13:45, 6 April 2024 (EDT)
Moved! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:31, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
Thanks! I have updated the main Wiki page and everything looks good. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:37, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
The Description up in the panel at the top of all the community boards still say "Help with bibliographic, image credit, and other questions which require a physical check of the work in question.". Annie (talk) 11:49, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
Updated, thanks! The new wording is "Help with bibliographic projects", which is a bit bland and non-specific, but I couldn't think of a better way to summarize the purpose of the new board. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:49, 8 April 2024 (EDT)

Jim/James Burns

I just added a link and did a few other things for the 33rd YBSF edition, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2012677, and searched for others with James Burns as cover artist; only 34th came up, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2209443, but as can be seen PV of TP and HC entered it differently. So maybe consensus about which is "better" should be reached and credits merged. --Username (talk) 18:45, 27 March 2024 (EDT)

Lovecraft Collaborations Book

I was starting to add the audio book edition of this title and discovered that publisher has provided a copy of the pdf version of the book. While we don't have a record for the pdf (it has a different ISBN than the eBook), there are several discrepancies between it and our records. I also have questions other questions about how this title is reflected and while none of the publications are primarily verified, there have been several editors who have touched these records. I thought I'd reach out for comments before proceeding with changes.

  1. We have the title as an ANTHOLOGY and list both the editor and Lovecraft. All the stories are credited to Lovecraft with various co-authors. Personally, I feel that these sorts of collection of collaborations are better typed as COLLECTION as was done with this title.
  2. The title page lists the credits as "By H.P. Lovecraft" over "Edited and Annotated by Finn J.D. John" in smaller type. We have both names in the author field. Since we have this as an ANTHOLOGY, this labels them both as "Editors". Lovecraft clearly didn't edit this book. As I feel this should be listed as a COLLECTION, I also feel that only Lovecraft should be listed in the author field. If the consensus is that it's an ANTHOLOGY, then we only list John.
  3. The stories are listed with both Lovecraft and his co-author on their title pages, whereas we have them all listed by the collaborating author alone. So I intend to swap out which variant of these titles is included. I don't thin this is controversial.
  4. There is a short essay before each section giving biographical details of each co-author. I intend to add these. While not signed, I think we can safely attribute them to John by virtue of his annotation credit.
  5. The PDF lists 5 different formats each with their own ISBN including the "Interactive PDF". Should we add the PDF as a separate title record, or should the PDF ISBN be added in the notes for the ebook edition? I'll also note, that my understanding is that we do list page numbers for pdfs whereas we do not for ebooks.
  6. I'm fairly comfortable that these changes should apply to the 2018 publications based on the 2018 pdf. I'm less certain whether I should make changes to the 2017 edition, or the 2019 omnibus, i.e should we assume the story credits and biographical essays are present in the other editions not listed in the pdf?
  7. I assume adding a note about the PDF being included with the audio book is sufficient rather than duplicating the contents showing the story exists twice (audio and text).

I'd appreciate other's thoughts on these questions. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:29, 28 March 2024 (EDT)

My mild opinion is that both this and the example you cited should be ANTHOLOGY. They are different from the case where most of the stories are written by Lovecraft alone, with one or two written by him and someone else. While both are Locvecraft-centric, they are primarily showcasing the work of a wide variety of authors. I agree with everything else in your list. --MartyD (talk) 19:55, 31 March 2024 (EDT)
I'm afraid I would still prefer these as COLLECTIONs. If we were to convert them to ANTHOLOGY, we would need to list the editor as the sole author which would move these collections out of Lovecraft's bibliography. I had only cited one example, but there are many similar collections, many of which are verified. For example, see which collections containing the story The Green Meadow. It is contained in two true anthologies. Aside from the 4 editions of the title we're discussing, there is but one other {{P|848648|publication} typed as a ANTHOLOGY. All other publications were entered as COLLECTION or OMNIBUS. In some of these cases, we don't necessarily have the editor and would likely need to move these titles to the uncredited bibliography page instead of Lovecraft's. Beyond the Wall of Sleep is another interesting example. There about 10 "collaborations" in this collection which is a minority, but it is more than one or two stories. If we decide to type these sorts of books as ANTHOLOGY, where would we draw that line? My last point is that it appears to me that these books are published to appear as Lovecraft collections with his name listed more prominently than any editors (if they are listed at all). If we are to reclassify these publication, I'd like to hear from some of the other verifiers. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:23, 1 April 2024 (EDT)
Since there have been no further responses to this, and the one objection was "mild", I'm going to proceed with these changes. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 12:34, 13 April 2024 (EDT)

"Publication Title-Reference Title Mismatches" enhanced

As per the recent Rules and Standards discussion, the cleanup report "Publication Title-Reference Title Mismatches" has been enhanced to require an exact match between publication titles and their reference title records' titles. New data will become available tomorrow morning.

We are looking at around 10,000 mismatches, so the cleanup effort will be significant, especially considering the fact that many affected publication records have been primary-verified. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:07, 4 April 2024 (EDT)

Canonical name change Charles Eugene Anderson from Chuck Anderson

Any objections to making Charles Eugene Anderson the canonical name and Chuck Anderson the alternate?

  • 17 titles credited to Charles Eugene Anderson.
  • 09 titles credited to Chuck Anderson.
  • 01 title has publications credited to each.

Thanks, John Scifibones 07:51, 5 April 2024 (EDT)

Go ahead, obvious case where the switch can/need to happen MagicUnk (talk) 09:28, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
Hearing no objections, done. John Scifibones 18:45, 9 April 2024 (EDT)

David (B.) Mattingly

Looking through the works credited to Mattingly, it seems to me that "David Mattingly" is the most common (by far), and has been for a long time. There are so many entries, though, this opinion is based only on quickly scanning through the list. Is there a way to get a count of each through database queries? I don't think any of the other aliases are used in a significant amount. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:58, 5 April 2024 (EDT)

Just with search and a browser search: 510 with the name David Mattingly; 747 under the canonical; 198 of these 747 of them are "only as by David Mattingly". Just based on that, how we record the names from secondary sources for artists and the fact that the new ones are always without the B. when we get access to the book, I would say it is time to flip the names. I am not volunteering to do it though. :) Annie (talk) 18:58, 5 April 2024 (EDT)

(after edit conflict)

The easiest way that I can think of is to run a few Advanced Title Searches using "Author's Name is exactly David Mattingly". Make sure to click "Get Count" instead of "Get Results". Here are the results that I see:
  • David B. Mattingly: 747
  • David Mattingly: 510
  • Dave Mattingly: 12
  • D. B. Mattingly: 7
  • Dave Maddingly: 1
  • D. Matingly: 1
  • Mattingly: 2
  • David Burroughs Mattingly: 1
Since David B. Mattingly is the current canonical name, it's over-represented. Every "David Mattingly" COVERART/INTERIORART title has a "David B. Mattingly" parent title, but only some of the latter have actual publications associated with them. Firefox tells me that the Summary Bibliography page has:
  • 79 instances of "also appeared"
  • 8 instances of "also as"
  • 132 instances of "only appeared"
  • 207 instances of "only as"
What this means is that 339 canonical titles have only appeared under an alternate name. Another 87 have been credited at least 2 different ways. 339+87-12-7-1-1-2 is 403, which, unless I am missing something, gives us a rough count. I'd need to run database queries to get a better idea, but it looks like "David Mattingly" is slightly ahead of "David B. Mattingly".
P.S. Perhaps what we need is a new menu options to generate this kind of data on demand. Ahasuerus (talk) 19:03, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
That would be cool. Another cool thing would be if we could figure out a way to programatically automate the process of changing canonical names (maybe have a side menu link that appears whenever viewing an author entry). The link would take you to a page where you'd enter the current author ID and the target author ID. We'd have to account for variants on the author name, title variants, and translations (and probably a lot of other things that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head). For situations like this, it would save tons of time in the long run. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:37, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
This functionality has been requested a couple of times. Unfortunately, it would be very difficult to implement in a way that would guarantee completeness and accuracy. Not only would the software need to change the way VTs and Alternate Names are configured, but it would also need to change dates (for some titles) and Notes.
Perhaps we could implement something less ambitious but still useful. For example, "Undo all Variants for This Author"? Ahasuerus (talk) 14:22, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
Yeah, it's definitely very complex. I like the "Undo all Variants for This Author" idea, though. What about a "swap canonical authors" option on individual titles? That would be a lot less complex and allow for easier catching of potential issues. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:48, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
I don't see the benefit of an "Undo all Variants for This Author" tool. A variant title only needs to be broken if both the canonical title and the variant tiles have publications attributed. If all the publication(s) are associated with the variant title, a simple merge is the best option. Not only does it save a step by not having to delete the old canonical, but it saves all the information. Some data is only stored in the "parent title", plus any edit history. John Scifibones 15:38, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
I'm slowly working through all of them. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:42, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
I have completed moving all the records to David Mattingly. I think someone else was moving them, too, so thanks to them, too. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:32, 22 April 2024 (EDT)
Joe, thanks for sorting this out. I noticed Zapp was helping you. John Scifibones 19:38, 22 April 2024 (EDT)

Server downtime -- 2024-04-06 at 2pm

The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance between 2:00pm and 2:10pm. Both the database side and the Wiki side will be unavailable. Ahasuerus (talk) 13:28, 6 April 2024 (EDT)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:05, 6 April 2024 (EDT)

The Prequel Trilogy

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934500; I have a question about the publisher of this 2007 Star Wars omnibus; there is no mention of Ballantine in the book so it should be similar to the last one on this list, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=del+rey&type=Publisher, but without the SFBC. Should I change publisher to LucasBooks / Del Rey? --Username (talk) 11:30, 7 April 2024 (EDT)

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934540; I changed publisher on this one since they were still with Ballantine in 2000. --Username (talk) 12:22, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934546; Another change from 2005 when they were still together. I don't see any cover artist credited that someone entered here or any sign of the excerpt mentioned on the book's copyright page. EDIT: One of the earlier editions has a note here saying they got artist from his site. --Username (talk) 12:31, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934585; Another one from 2006; this one actually has a PV so I'll leave them a message. --Username (talk) 13:12, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
And a final one, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934586, 2005 HC, PV is gone so no need for a note. --Username (talk) 13:18, 7 April 2024 (EDT)

Semaphore

https://www.lulu.com/fr/search?contributor=Marie+Hodgkinson; While adding PDF story links from Tartarus Press at their old freepages.pavilion.net site the last one I linked was a story by Rebecca Lloyd that was entered here as original to her 2014 collection but was actually published in 2007 in a magazine called Semaphore, no issues of which are on ISFDB, but I found that Lulu page above so anyone who likes entering magazines can add a lot from that. The editor has a page here, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?143960. --Username (talk) 13:41, 9 April 2024 (EDT)

https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/semaphoremagazine.com; PDF of some (all?) issues at this site. --Username (talk) 13:50, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
Looks like it has archived PDFs of all but the last issue (issue 15) from June 2011. I'll work on these. The first issue is now here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:32, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
Okay, I think they're all entered (15 issues in total). I also found a couple anthologies collecting the stories and poems voted best by readers of the magazine. I don't know if there were more than the two anthologies. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:33, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
Excellent. Only thing I think you forgot is June 2008's cover artist. --Username (talk) 14:07, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
Fixed! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:11, 10 April 2024 (EDT)

David Ireland

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?3106; I just made edits adding the Allen Lane HC of City of Women and adding a link to Mortal Fire where the 1982 short story is from and noticed that the Wiki page makes no mention of any art so I think the famed Australian novelist and the artist are 2 different people. --Username (talk) 10:28, 11 April 2024 (EDT)

Canonical name change Jody A. Lee from Jody Lee

The artist's website and SFE use Jody A. Lee. While the majority of her early work was credited to 'Jody Lee', the shift to 'Jody A. Lee' is clear. Here are the current statistics.

  • 111 titles credited to Jody A. Lee.
  • 73 titles credited to Jody Lee.
  • 26 titles hasve publications credited to each.

Are there any objections to making Jody A. Lee the canonical name and Jody Lee the alternate? John Scifibones 14:24, 11 April 2024 (EDT)

Sounds good to me. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:41, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
No objections here. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:47, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
Hearing no objections, done. John Scifibones 17:47, 15 April 2024 (EDT)
https://ixgallery.com/artists/jodylee/; Here's her photo in case someone wants to upload it to the wiki. --Username (talk) 17:58, 15 April 2024 (EDT)
Done! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:28, 17 April 2024 (EDT)

ISBN hyphenation changed

As I am sure most of you know, different publishers' ISBNs are hyphenated differently. Possible permutations include:

  • 978-1-64973-127-2
  • 978-1-9821-9317-1
  • 979-8-200-29585-2
  • 979-10-281-0150-3
  • 979-8-9856919-6-2

"The International ISBN Agency" maintains a list of rules which determine in which positions hyphens are supposed to appear. Almost all publishers follow them, although there have been some exceptions, notably Tor prior to 2007.

When ISFDB 2.0 was developed in 2004-2006, the rules -- as they existed back then -- were manually incorporated in the ISFDB software. What we didn't realize at the time was how complex the rules would become over the course of the following 20 years. As the number of publishers (and self-publishers) exploded, the International ISBN Agency had to create more and more rules to accommodate the growth and the ISBN handling part of the ISFDB software, which was last updated in 2010, fell hopelessly behind. The result was that many ISBNs were hyphenated incorrectly when displayed on ISFDB pages.

Earlier today I deployed a fairly big patch which changed the way the ISFDB software determines where hyphens are displayed. We now follow the International ISBN Agency's current rules to the letter. There is also a way to update our rules programmatically whenever the Agency rolls out new rules. I expect that we will be doing it a few times a year, which will let us stay more or less in sync with the Agency. (We also have special exceptions for Tor and the other 2 publishers which didn't follow the rules prior to 2007.)

As always, if you come across any issues with this software change, please let me know. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:07, 16 April 2024 (EDT)

Thanks for all your hard work behind the scenes on stuff like this. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:03, 16 April 2024 (EDT)
To quote Damon Knight, I am here to serve man! :-) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ahasuerus (talkcontribs) .

Publication Title Without a Related Title Record

I am about to create a new pub record under That Hideous Strength by C. S. Lewis. There is a subtitle on the title page so the full, correct publication title is: That Hideous Strength: A Modern Fairy-Tale for Grown-Ups. Looking at the title record I see there are five publications (three of which have been PVd) with this subtitle. However, they do not have a related title record "That Hideous Strength: A Modern Fairy-Tale for Grown-Ups" and consequently there is no varianting. Is this correct and if so why? Teallach (talk) 18:42, 17 April 2024 (EDT)

It is not correct. The publication title should match the reference title. This report highlights 1000 exceptions each day (I don't know the selection algorithm). First determine, subtitle or no subtitle, which should be the canonical? It's also a good idea to review the publications and make sure they are recorded correctly. Whichever you determine, it will be a multi-step edit. Ask if you have questions. If I'm online, ping me and I'll approve as you submit. John Scifibones 20:14, 17 April 2024 (EDT)
You have confirmed my suspicions. The cleanup report to which you refer does not include "That Hideous Strength" so I guess it's because it is limited to 1000 records. I'm happy to clean up this title. I'm satisfied that "That Hideous Strength" (without subtitle) is the more appropriate canonical title. I have inspected the five pub records with the subtitle and each looks internally consistent. Three of these have PVs. Do I need to consult with PVs or can this sort of housekeeping be performed without PVs' consent? Teallach (talk) 12:42, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
It's not necessary to contact the PV's. You're merely correcting the reference title. I know you intend to perform all the steps and will indicate such in the note to moderator. I noticed this title wasn't on the report. Perhaps Ahasuerus will chime in and explain the algorithm determining which titles to report. John Scifibones 15:45, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
First step submitted: Unmerge titles. Teallach (talk) 16:26, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
Approved, John Scifibones 16:33, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
Step 2 submitted: merge the 5 reference titles of the subtitled version. Teallach (talk) 17:12, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
Approved, John Scifibones 17:17, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
Step 3 submitted: make subtitled version a variant of canonical title.
Think that's it for the pubs but I can see there's more work to do:
A) These two pubs: Macmillan 1966 and Macmillan 1977 have the variant title but the same canonical coverart title records. So I'm pretty sure these need to be changed. The only way I can see to do this involves five more edits:
Step 4) edit one of the pubs (1966, say) and create a second coverart record under the variant title
Step 5) variant the coverart record
Step 6) import the variant coverart record to the 1977 pub
Step 7) remove the canonical coverart record from the 1966 pub
Step 8) remove the canonical coverart record from the 1977 pub
Is there a more efficient way to do this?
B) Those same two pubs contain an essay Preface (That Hideous Strength) which has a disambiguator under the canonical title. Does the disambiguator have to be changed to the variant title. I'm unsure about this because the phrase is only a disambiguator; it's not actually part of the title of the essay. Can you please advise.
My goodness, this is long-winded! Teallach (talk) 18:11, 18 April 2024 (EDT)

(unindent)
Submit two edits for each pub. (All four at once)

  • Submission 1 - Add the new variant titles, COVERART and preface.
  • Submission 2 - Remove the canonicals.

Since these submissions will generate change notices, reference this conversation in the note to moderator. After I approve all four, I'll perform the two merges. You will just need to link the variants. John Scifibones 18:48, 18 April 2024 (EDT)

Yes, I see where you're going with this. About the same number of edits but fewer Wait For Approval stages. Four edits submitted. Teallach (talk) 07:12, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
Approved, John Scifibones 07:22, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
Two Make Variants submitted. Teallach (talk) 07:52, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
I've checked all the affected records and everything looks good to me apart from one error that must have been present before we started the cleanup: the date of the canonical title of the Preface (correction submitted). So I think we've finally reached the end. If there's anything I've missed, let me know. Many thanks for all your assistance with this John. Much appreciated. Teallach (talk) 16:34, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
Fortunately, there is a scan of the first edition in the internet archive. I added the preface and a link to the scan here. As you know, the canonical is dated to the first appearance, even if it is as a variant. I put your submission on hold, assuming you would rather cancel than have me reject it. I enjoyed working on this with you. Ping me anytime. John Scifibones 18:43, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
Oh, that's interesting. It hadn't occurred to me to look for an archive of the first ed because I had looked in Currey who states the following regarding the first Pan pb (1955): 'adds new author's "preface"'. So it's possible that there are two different prefaces. This requires more research which I don't have time to do now and may not have the resources anyway. But it's fine to leave the ISFDb records as they are for now; they are all self consistent. I have cancelled my submission. Teallach (talk) 04:46, 20 April 2024 (EDT)

Trademark markings in titles

My understanding is that we generally don't include symbols like ® and TM in titles because they usually indicate information about the title but are not usually part of the title. As JLaTondre wrote in 2012, "There is distinction between a title that has a '®' or 'TM' as part of the title and a title that adds the '®' or 'TM' for legal reasons." I'm asking because I ran across this title that has one as part of the title, and I don't think it's actually part of the title itself, but rather added for legal reasons. This might be something we should clarify on Help:Screen:Title. This was discussed way back in 2007, but I haven't yet found any more recent discussions (outside of the 2012 one I mentioned above). Thoughts? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:51, 23 April 2024 (EDT)

I'm the editor with the sole PV for that ebook pub. I have no objection to removing it since the trademark symbol really only applies to the "Liaden Universe" portion of the title. It is on the title page and cover that way. Clarification of the rule would be a good idea. Phil (talk) 13:44, 23 April 2024 (EDT)

Supermonsters

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2600565; I added Supermonsters as a variant (and subbed a better cover image) but it's from 1986 like the German parent so if anyone can find a copyright page scan which verifies the month is earlier the American cover would become the parent; I couldn't find one, but I do see on eBay that Archway released a much earlier PB in Sep. '78 with a photo of the cool American-added demon from the 1950s film Night/Curse of the Demon on the cover but the 2 sellers that showed the copyright page have editions that say 1 2 9 8 below the printing info; whether that's a number line or what I don't know but if anyone owns a copy you may want to enter yours. --Username (talk) 09:47, 24 April 2024 (EDT)

Ray Daley possible death

It's possible Ray Daley has died, though I haven't found an obituary or any other official report. He was in the hospital since the end of March due to a heart attack, and a number of people are posting condolences on an open call group on Facebook as well as on his profile there. I'll try to keep an eye on it and keep looking for an obituary or other official report. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:01, 24 April 2024 (EDT)

日本SFファンドム賞 (Japan SF Fandom Award) entry completed

It took me almost a year to do it (due to various things distracting me from it), but it's done. Please let me know if anyone has any questions. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:51, 24 April 2024 (EDT)

And related, I've completed entering the recipients of the Takumi Shibano Award. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:42, 24 April 2024 (EDT)
And the SFファンジン大賞 (SF Fanzine Award) has been completed, too. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:35, 21 May 2024 (EDT)
Looks good, thanks! Ahasuerus (talk) 09:22, 22 May 2024 (EDT)
On a semi-related note I found 3 Japanese obit pages, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5966998, which all have unique photos of Shibano in case anyone wants to add one to our Wiki/his record; Wikipedia only has a single grainy B&W photo of him. --Username (talk) 10:04, 22 May 2024 (EDT)

Shadow People

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3356; Long-gone PV of C$ Dell ed. entered just "Jones" as artist here, one or the other should be decided on and the 2 merged. --Username (talk) 09:43, 26 April 2024 (EDT)

Joshua T. Calvert / Joshua Tree

Hi! Along with updating the author records I have brought the installing of the first name as a pseudonym for the second on the way (incl. the varianting to the respective original titles). This was based on the information given at the German Wikipedia, which discloses the pseudonym. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 11:31, 29 April 2024 (EDT)

As a point of reference, Amazon.com uses the same author photo on the Joshua T. Calvert page and the Joshua Tree page. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:01, 29 April 2024 (EDT)
Okay, these have been varianted and everything is under this entry now. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 10:52, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
Checking Stonecreek's pending submissions (moderator only), I see a number of Make Variant submissions which suggest that the books that we have on file were originally published in German as by "Joshua Tree". We'll presumably need to reverse the canonical/alternate name relationship, which should be easy to do since we have only 2 titles as by "Joshua Tree" at this time. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:26, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
Okay, I've swapped the information and approved (I believe) all the related pending submissions. I'll work through the others in case there are more. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:18, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
Thanks! Ahasuerus (talk) 18:30, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
I have entered all English language "Joshua T. Calvert" pubs that Fixer was aware of and linked them to their "Joshua Tree" parents. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:21, 3 May 2024 (EDT)

Le Splash!

https://archive.org/search?query=splash+don-ian; French edition of the mermaid movie novelization in case anyone fluent wants to enter it. --Username (talk) 22:56, 30 April 2024 (EDT)

That may be how it was credited. It's currently varianted. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 10:53, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
Um, I think Joe's response may be for another subject. --Username (talk) 11:10, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
Yup, not sure which one mine was for. Sorry for the confusion. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:57, 3 May 2024 (EDT)

Additions to verified publication

hello mods! I am going to submit a few little additions (printing month, pub series name, external ID) to this book, which was primarily verified by Chavey, whose talk page says to post inquiries about modifications at the moderator board. Can I submit? thanks! - --Fantagufo (talk) 08:13, 3 May 2024 (EDT)

Go ahead and submit them, then post here again. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 10:17, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
Done! Here is the submission. After approval I'll add my Primary verification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fantagufo (talkcontribs) . 10:50, 3 May 2024‎ (EDT)
Approved. Here's the entry now. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:00, 3 May 2024 (EDT)

Server maintenance -- 2024-05-07

The server will be down for maintenance between 3pm and 3:05pm server (Eastern Daylight) time. Ahasuerus (talk) 13:54, 7 May 2024 (EDT)

We are back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:06, 7 May 2024 (EDT)

ETC, etc.

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubs_not_in_series.cgi?76479; I found an Amazon image for Smoke's horror PB Deliver Us from Evil, a book I remember seeing and probably reading back in the day, so I added it in an edit, but no photos of the copyright page seem to exist so if anyone owns a copy/can find photos the month (and maybe cover artist?) can be added, too. Also, his earlier novel Atlantean Document seems very scarce with no cover I can find anywhere or any archived copy although there is evidence online that it was translated into Italian as "Il Cristallo di Atlantide" and a few cover images of that edition are online which show artwork that includes ADOLF HITLER so I assume the book ties into the occult beliefs the Nazis espoused; can anyone find a cover for the English-language edition? Finally, the other book from ETC on ISFDB, Vampires Are, https://archive.org/search?query=vampires-are+kaplan+kane, is "non-fiction" by a guy who was the founder of the Vampire Research Center and who wrote other junk like Amityville Horror Conspiracy and probably shouldn't be here, maybe it should be deleted and the review in Fangoria changed to a non-genre review. Any thoughts? --Username (talk) 09:11, 8 May 2024 (EDT)

Can't help with the covers, sorry, but if this can help: The Atlantean Document is not about Nazis belief: The synopsis (in uraniamania.com) for the Italian translation says that the story is about a crystal, thousands years old, which contains instructions to achieve weather control, and the secret agencies fighting to possess a complementary second crystal. --Fantagufo (talk) 10:05, 8 May 2024 (EDT)
I agree with your assessment of Vampires Are: it's not genre. I've removed it and changed the review to a standard essay. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 10:22, 8 May 2024 (EDT)

Best of Electric Velocipede

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?496703; Advance copy on eBay, https://picclick.com/track/url/www.ebay.com/itm/203150677279, says November which is a big gap from what's on ISFDB in case anyone can verify when this was published. Both Amazon and Locus have been known to be wrong a time or two in the past. --Username (talk) 12:15, 13 May 2024 (EDT)

Starting #

https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Dirk_P_Broer#Splendid_Freedom; It's hard to keep track with all the changes over the years but I believe page with story title is agreed on as the starting number to be entered here, right? Is my edit correct? If not I'll just cancel and only add the archived link. --Username (talk) 19:02, 19 May 2024 (EDT)

G. S. Jennsen series reorg

Would anyone object to me doing some upper level reorganization of G. S. Jennsen's series to bring them in line with the preferred series organization as shown on her website here? I propose the following:

Amaranthe Universe (new)
1. Aurora Rhapsody (was top series) - subseries stay the same
2. Asterion Noir (was 4 under Aurora Rhapsody)
3. Riven Worlds (was 5 under Aurora Rhapsody)
4. Cosmic Shores (new after adding the first novel)

Phil (talk) 07:57, 20 May 2024 (EDT)

As there have been no comments within a week, I'm going ahead with the proposed changed. Phil (talk) 08:38, 28 May 2024 (EDT)

Nit: wording of a warning message

The warning message when submitting an title update states "There is 1 possible duplicate title in the new pub. See Duplicate Finder for details.". There were, in fact, 15 titles listed in the Duplicate Finder (Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea has many translations). I doubt this comes up often. ../Doug H (talk) 12:18, 25 May 2024 (EDT)

But these 15 are not in the new pub (emphasis mine): there is only 1 title inside of the pub that is a possible duplicate :) That warning says "2 possible duplicate titles" if you are adding an anthology and we match 3 of the stories for example. Annie (talk) 13:45, 30 May 2024 (EDT)

The Fifth Quarter

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5969166; It took a while but I finally managed to decipher the artists for King's pseudonymous 1972 story; besides the book I linked in the mod note some online searching suggests they did a lot of magazine art including some computer-related. If anyone can find out what their legal names are (Lieu is variously Randy, Randall, or Randell depending on where you look) variants can be made. There doesn't seem to be anywhere online that identifies these two as the artists for King's story so hopefully someone will see this after it's approved and disseminate it to the numerous King bibliographic sites online. Many other King stories published in men's magazines in the 70s still need their artists entered so maybe others here can fill in some blanks. Also, shouldn't this 1972 Cavalier issue be merged with the others here? --Username (talk) 18:50, 25 May 2024 (EDT)

Still Dead

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?35141; There's a page on FantLab with trade ISBN but most photos seem to be limited edition; contents' page numbers don't match up with what's entered here for trade and limited has no numbers here so if anyone owns a Ziesing edition the numbers need verifying and fixing if needed. --Username (talk) 11:02, 30 May 2024 (EDT)

Submission review pages -- new yellow warnings

The following types of submission review pages have had new yellow warnings implemented:

  • Publication Update
  • Import Contents Titles into Publication
  • Remove Title from Publication

The new yellow warnings appear when there is a potential conflict between the currently displayed pending submission and one or more submissions of these types. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:06, 4 June 2024 (EDT)

Giuseppe Granieri

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?351241; Is this man the same as https://www.fantascienza.com/gallerie/524/in-memoriam-2024/11? Also, birth place is missing a comma. --Username (talk) 20:06, 11 June 2024 (EDT)

They don't appear to be the same. One was born in 1968, the other in 1981. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:12, 11 June 2024 (EDT)
The 1968 one has an Italian Wikipedia page, though I couldn't see anything that immediately said "speculative fiction" in that article. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:19, 11 June 2024 (EDT)
The description of this book makes me think it might be a dystopian novel, in which case, we should probably add it and disambiguate between these two people. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:21, 11 June 2024 (EDT)
And here is a full obituary post for the 1968 one, though it doesn't include his date of birth. It mentions he edited and published some science fiction (I think...my Italian is not very good). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:27, 11 June 2024 (EDT)
I think (but quite confidently!) that they are two differet persons: the GG born in 1968 at Potenza, pioneer of digital editing, who is the author of the essay in Infected files (and probably also author of ethobiome). I would record this: https://web.archive.org/web/20080724093940/http://www.bookcafe.net/blog/fuffa.cfm as his web page. The other one was born in 1981 at Galatina, and is a sport journalist who wrote books about soccer and seems to have no reason to be in isfdb. goodreads and anobii merged their works as if they were the same person, but their biographies contradict this approach.--Fantagufo (talk) 23:34, 11 June 2024 (EDT)
I agree that the 1981 GG seems unlikely to have written an introduction to a science fiction anthology (which is how it's currently credited). It's far more likely the 1968 GG wrote the introduction in Infected Files, especially since he's written a number of things (and edited a bunch more) that are speculative fiction. If there are no objections, I'll go ahead and change the information here to the 1968 GG since it's very unlikely we'll ever have need to have an entry for the 1981 GG (as mentioned above). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:03, 12 June 2024 (EDT)
Since there have been no objections raised, I have gone ahead and modified the existing entry to have the information about the 1968 person. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:12, 14 June 2024 (EDT)

Staffilano

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=staffil&type=Name; Italian editors here may know if these 3 are the same person and merge as needed; at least one died in 2022, https://www.fantascienza.com/27871/se-ne-e-andato-gl-staffilano-grande-decano-dei-traduttori-del-fantastico. --Username (talk) 08:06, 12 June 2024 (EDT)

These are definitely all the same person. I've merged the entries and varianted the other names. I also expanded his information based on the above article from Fantascienza. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:21, 12 June 2024 (EDT)

Fuseli's nightmares (two of them)

The artist Henry_Fuseli made in 1781 a painting that he titled Nightmare, which was used as cover art for many gothic novels. They all are varianted to the older book, Three Gothic Novels. However, if you look at its page, you can see two different paintings: one in which over the girl's stomach there is a (gnome?) humanoid creature, ad one in which instead there is a (vampire?) demonic creature. The second, as annotated in this publication and in the wikimedia file history, was made in 1791. Shouldn't these covers be separated and varianted to two different titles? Maybe creating two disambiguated "Nightmare (1781)" and "Nightmare (1791)" new coverart titles? --Fantagufo (talk) 15:39, 14 June 2024 (EDT)

Working on this. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:35, 14 June 2024 (EDT)
Okay, the covers have been split into the 1781 and 1791-1792 versions. Let me know if I missed any or mis-sorted any. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:40, 14 June 2024 (EDT)
excellent Joe! the 1791 part seems perfect. the 1781 are well assigned but changed from coverart to interiorart. I'd swirch then back to coverart. PS: I also submitted a new varianting to 1791 but I was lucky, it seems still valid. --Fantagufo (talk) 18:44, 14 June 2024 (EDT)
The first publication in a book (that we have recorded) is INTERIORART. That doesn't mean that all the covers are now that. They are still COVERART. Also, since the varianting you submitted was older than the one we currently have as the main title, I rejected your submission and made this one the parent. We always want the oldest one to be the parent. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:24, 14 June 2024 (EDT)
That's ok for me Joe! I just wonder if it wouldn't be worth in these cases to create a pub-less title (dated 1791 in this case) as parent title so that if tomorrow someone submits a book older than mine the structure of varianting will be already setup to include it - but I do not know if the isfdb schemas are ready for this - it would mean to create a master title ("the nightmare" in this case) to link the pubs to. I think I already have another one or two instances in my pending submissions where this approach would be useful... so we'll learn living. Please don't hate me... I'm learning too! --Fantagufo (talk) 20:57, 14 June 2024 (EDT)
I'd like to call your attention to this discussion. I believe we agreed that we should not have records for paintings outside of being used as either covers or interior illustrations. Unless this title was used as a cover for a book published in 1792 with the title "The Nightmare", I believe it should be changed to "Il monaco: raccontato da Antonin Artaud" and dated 1967-02-20, to account for the earliest published title of this artwork under the artist's canonical name. Further, this title should also be dated 1967-02-20, unless, of course the Lewis novel was published with the same cover in 1792. While I'm sure one could find other examples of records for paintings bearing the creation date, these are counter to policy and should be cleaned up when found. I won't changes these until folks have had a chance to respond. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:03, 15 June 2024 (EDT)
I read the discussion that you highlight, and the previous 2019 discussion referenced in it, and I think I understand the logics in them, and the troubles possibly caused creating master titles using the artwork title (knowledge and language) instead of the publication title. So if the present situation is not compliant to the policies, please fix it. --Fantagufo (talk) 11:42, 15 June 2024 (EDT)
No worries. I've updated the records and expanded the notes a bit on the parent title. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:45, 15 June 2024 (EDT)
I updated the note on Il monaco: raccontato da Antonin Artaud to replace the see also link to The Nightmare, and then updated the see also link on The Nightmare to point to Il monaco: raccontato da Antonin Artaud. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:38, 17 June 2024 (EDT)

PENTHOUSE, June 1972

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?589572; https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/h5cAAOSwml5lkyMy/s-l1600.webp; The starting page for the Blish story is 48 on contents page but ISFDB has 34; also, I think the Anthony Burgess interview on p. 82 should be added. Thoughts? Someone probably used p. 34 from Penthouse (UK) on FictionMags which apparently had different pagination than USA. Also, The Amazon ASIN links are dead. --Username (talk) 09:33, 15 June 2024 (EDT)

Mindy Klasky canonical name

The current canonical name for author Mindy Klasky is Mindy L. Klasky. It looks like she originally published her works using Mindy L. Klasky starting in 1999 but switched to exclusively using Mindy Klasky beginning in about 2006. A rough count shows about 30 titles as only by Mindy Klasky and about 10 titles by Mindy L. Klasky. Based on this, I think the canonical name should be changed to simply Mindy Klasky. Phil (talk) 09:24, 17 June 2024 (EDT)

I agree. Please preserve the data in the current parent titles by not using delete. John Scifibones 09:39, 17 June 2024 (EDT)
What's the best way to do this without losing data? Is there a Help How-to that walks me through this process? I haven't found one so far. Phil (talk) 15:37, 17 June 2024 (EDT)
There isn't a help page. Would you like me to write you a step by step and post it on your talk page? John Scifibones 16:40, 17 June 2024 (EDT)
That would be great. That way I won't be guessing and will have a reference for any future needs. Phil (talk) 17:19, 17 June 2024 (EDT)
Complete. The procedure you provided was spot on. Thanks! Phil (talk) 08:09, 19 June 2024 (EDT)
You're welcome. John Scifibones 08:14, 19 June 2024 (EDT)

Server maintenance - 2024-06-17 12pm EDT

The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance on 2024-06-17 between 12:00pm and 12:10pm. Both the database side and the Wiki side will be unavailable. Ahasuerus (talk) 10:07, 17 June 2024 (EDT)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:06, 17 June 2024 (EDT)

Anne Rice ?

First, I apologize if this post is just due to my poor knowledge of US marriage / naming traditions and laws! The record for Anne Rice says that her legal name is Rice, Howard Allen Frances O'Brien. According to the Wikipedia and Library of Congress pages linked in the record, she was born Howard Allen Frances O'Brien but when 7 years old she legally changed her given name to Anne, and it is not specified if at that moment her legal name became Anne Allen Frances O'Brien or just Anne Frances O'Brien. In 1961 she married Stan Rice; my understanding is that, although not required by law, most likely from that moment her legal name became Rice, Anne (or perhaps Rice, Anne Allen?). Probably her biography is more explicit, but none of its 4 editions has a PV to ask to. Was there a foundation for the selection of the legal name in the record? The ISFDB Help requires to use the most recent legal name. --Fantagufo (talk) 11:36, 20 June 2024 (EDT)

Checking Edit History for this author record -- note that only moderators can access Edit History for Authors -- I see that this legal name was entered by User:Dirk P Broer on 2011-10-04. Since SFE's article about this author lists the same legal name, we could add something like "Legal name from SFE" to the Notes field. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:43, 20 June 2024 (EDT)
"when 7 years old she legally changed her given name to Anne", is it even legally possible in the USA to do such a thing at that age? --Dirk P Broer (talk) 14:28, 25 June 2024 (EDT)
Yes, it's possible, although the details vary from state to state. If the child and both parents/guardians agree, it's a fairly straightforward process. You file a petition, attach supporting documents and consent forms, pay a processing fee and you should get new legal documents in a few weeks or months. When dealing with adults, courts have to keep in mind the possibility of petitioners trying to hide previous debts, bankruptcies, criminal convictions, marriages, etc, but a young child is unlikely to present similar problems. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:13, 25 June 2024 (EDT)
Or are we talking about a minor (in the legal sense) that uses that name from that age -but without doing the legal hassle that, given her age, she is not capable off? I think that Ahasuerus' suggestion, "Legal name from SFE" is a wise one. --Dirk P Broer (talk) 14:28, 25 June 2024 (EDT)
I guess her parents could have done the legal name change, but we can't know... I just submitted the addition of SFE note. thanks to all! --Fantagufo (talk) 14:46, 25 June 2024 (EDT)
What to think of the next Wikipedia line (after the 7 year entry) "Rice was confirmed in the Catholic Church when she was twelve years old and took the full name Howard Allen Frances Alphonsus Liguori O'Brien"....--Dirk P Broer (talk) 15:37, 25 June 2024 (EDT)
That would be a "confirmation name" as used in the Catholic Church. A confirmation name doesn't directly affect your legal name, but nothing stops individuals from asking a court to change their legal names to whatever they want. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:20, 25 June 2024 (EDT)

Heyne Halloween

https://fantlab.ru/edition262888; While adding info about Charles G. Waugh's 2 wives I noticed one of them co-edited a Halloween anthology that has a German edition which was never entered here in case anyone fluent wants to enter that. --Username (talk) 10:28, 24 June 2024 (EDT)

Random House Stepping Stones

We have 3 separate spellings of this publication series. The title page of the books says "A Stepping Stone Book TM" - latest example here. Are there any objections to bringing these into a single publication series? And any preferences to which of the 3 names to use? We have PVs only in the books that use "A Stepping Stone Book" (Stepping Stone Book and Stepping Stones are the other two options) so I am inclined to keep that one for now (and we can always change that). Any input is welcome! Annie (talk) 12:42, 25 June 2024 (EDT)

Sounds reasonable. Ahasuerus (talk) 13:49, 25 June 2024 (EDT)
I found this. Notice that the cover says "Stepping Stones", but the title page shows trademarked "A Stepping Stone Book", and the site itself says:
Tooter Pepperday is a part of the A Stepping Stone Book and A Stepping Stone Book Humor collections.
So the official name seems pretty clearly "A Stepping Stone Book", despite how that sounds as a series name. --MartyD (talk) 13:58, 25 June 2024 (EDT)
Thanks for digging that one out, Marty! "A Stepping Stone Book" it is then - I will change the rest and add some notes. Thanks! Annie (talk) 14:17, 25 June 2024 (EDT)

Proposal for new ON THIS DAY feature on Home Page

A friend suggested that, just as authors born and passed are featured, there should be a column for "Books Published on This Day". I agreed and am sharing his idea here. TobyJames (talk) 02:54, 29 June 2024 (EDT)TobyJames

(moved from the Moderator Noticeboard to the Community Portal)
There are a few of things to consider.
The first one is the number of matching publication records compared to the number of matching author records. The ISFDB database knows of 81 authors who were born on June 29. On the other hand, it knows of 336 title records whose title type is NOVEL, COLLECTION, NONFICTION, OMNIBUS or ANTHOLOGY, which do not have a parent title and which appeared on June 29.
The second one is the fact that the vast majority of pre-2010 books do not have the date of publication recorded. Here is the current breakdown for the 336 title records identified above:
+------+-------+
| YEAR | COUNT |
+------+-------+
| 1931 |     1 |
| 1973 |     1 |
| 1976 |     1 |
| 1983 |     2 |
| 1995 |     1 |
| 1999 |     2 |
| 2002 |     1 |
| 2003 |     1 |
| 2004 |     2 |
| 2006 |     1 |
| 2007 |     3 |
| 2008 |     2 |
| 2009 |     8 |
| 2010 |    22 |
| 2011 |    13 |
| 2012 |    16 |
| 2013 |    10 |
| 2014 |    14 |
| 2015 |    18 |
| 2016 |    29 |
| 2017 |    39 |
| 2018 |    26 |
| 2019 |    16 |
| 2020 |    21 |
| 2021 |    54 |
| 2022 |    15 |
| 2023 |    17 |
+------+-------+
This means that the proposed list would be dominated by recent books. Ahasuerus (talk) 09:08, 29 June 2024 (EDT)
do we have an estimate of how many books have the date recorded as year-month-day? It seems to me that the majority only has the year, or year and month. --Fantagufo (talk) 11:59, 29 June 2024 (EDT)
Of the 304,611 NOVEL, COLLECTION, ANTHOLOGY, NONFICTION, OMNIBUS, CHAPBOOK canonical titles (i.e. excluding variant titles and translations) currently on file, 184,577 or 60.5% include YYYY-MM-DD information. Unfortunately, it's mostly 2010+ titles:
+--------+--------+--------+-----+
| 1950s  |    399 | 5077   | 8%  |
| 1960s  |   1006 | 8612   | 12% |
| 1970s  |   3214 | 16431  | 20% |
| 1980s  |   2966 | 21804  | 14% |
| 1990s  |   2252 | 25596  | 9%  |
| 2000s  |  16686 | 41705  | 40% |
| 2010s  | 113191 | 124997 | 91% |
| 2020s  |  44470 | 45884  | 97% |
+--------+--------+--------+-----+
Ahasuerus (talk) 13:35, 29 June 2024 (EDT)

2024-06-30 - Performance Issues

There is a bot attack in progress causing intermittent performance problems with the server. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:10, 30 June 2024 (EDT)

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/botnet-removal-tools-windows. --Username (talk) 12:10, 30 June 2024 (EDT)
It's always good to make sure that Windows-based computers have the latest security updates from Microsoft, which include monthly versions of the "Malicious Software Removal Tool" listed by the linked article. Other tools that the article recommends may be more controversial, e.g. earlier this month the US government prohibited sales of cybersecurity software developed by Russia-based Kaspersky Lab in the United States and urged "[i]ndividuals and businesses that utilize Kaspersky software [...] to expeditiously transition to new vendors to limit exposure of personal or other sensitive data to malign actors due to a potential lack of cybersecurity coverage."
Unfortunately, even if every ISFDB users had a squeaky clean computer, it wouldn't help against existing "botnets", i.e. networks of compromised computers, or other hostile actors that exist on the internet. There are ways to mitigate the impact of bot attacks, e.g. Cloudfare, but they can be pricey. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:16, 30 June 2024 (EDT)
https://www.sentinelone.com/cybersecurity-101/botnets/. --Username (talk) 16:39, 30 June 2024 (EDT)

Once Upon a Time

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5998492; Can someone approve this if acceptable? I need to do some deleting/fixing. --Username (talk) 09:41, 3 July 2024 (EDT)

Done. One small trick/informal practice: when you clone or import more than you need, mark the titles that need deleting with "del" or "delete" in the page numbers field. That way a friendly moderator can assist post approval or if they remain in place by mistake, someone finding the work later knows that they were supposed to be gone :) Annie (talk) 09:47, 3 July 2024 (EDT)
OK, thanks, 2 more edits made removing 3 stories and unmerging cover art. --Username (talk) 09:56, 3 July 2024 (EDT)

Validation of "sorting numbers"

As per the outcome of this Rules and Standards discussion, the software that validates the "sorting number" part of the page number field, i.e. the part that follows the "pipe" character ("|"), has been updated. Only digits, i.e. 0 through 9, optionally followed by a period and more digits, are allowed in the "sorting number" part of the page number value. Anything else will result in a pop-up message telling you what kinds of values are allowed in this field.

Please note that this is the same algorithm as the one currently used for series numbers. In both cases values like "000" and "9.000" are currently allowed even though they don't make much sense in our context. It's harmless because they are treated as "0" and "9" for sorting purposes, but we may want to tweak the algorithm to disallow them. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:04, 3 July 2024 (EDT)

creating user lists?

Is it possible to create user lists, like of all the books you have read, or all the book you wanna read? Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment added by TheMelancholicAlcoholic (talkcontribs) 07:03, July 6, 2024‎

No, this is a bibliographic project. Check out goodreads.com. John Scifibones 07:41, 6 July 2024 (EDT)
You can use ISFDB tags for this (and other users have done so). Tags are applied to a title record. On each title record (for example The Fellowship of the Ring), at the bottom of the title info (before Other Titles / Publications), is the ability to apply a tag. To use a custom tag, use the "or manage Tags" option. Tags are shared so you will want to use a tag name that is unique to you (example "Read-TheMelancholicAlcoholic" and "To Read-TheMelancholicAlcoholic"). To see your tags, click the "My Tags" link in the left menu. We will make any user specific tags private (note, private doesn't mean other users cannot access them, it just means they are not displayed on the title record by default). However, as Scifibones says, Goodreads is better suited for this purpose. -- JLaTondre (talk) 07:48, 6 July 2024 (EDT)

2024-07-11 server downtime at 4:30pm EDT

The server will be down for maintenance between 4:30pm and 4:40pm Eastern Daylight Time. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:59, 11 July 2024 (EDT)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:37, 11 July 2024 (EDT)

Search for titles with co-authors

I would like to search ISFDB for titles where there are two or more authors.

I can see that ISFDB displays two authors as Author 1 and Author 2, etc., when I look at editing one of those titles.

However, I would like to be able to search for two authors on a wild card basis, without knowing who they are. I can't see any obvious way to do this. Is this possible?

Thanks. Dave888 (talk) 18:52, 11 July 2024 (EDT)

I am afraid not. As the Advanced Title Search page says:
  • When specifying multiple authors and/or multiple tags, OR is supported but AND is not
Ahasuerus (talk) 20:31, 11 July 2024 (EDT)
Thanks. I was suspecting that, but I know I'm not an expert at some of this. I expect there are great database issues for this result.Dave888 (talk) 19:28, 12 July 2024 (EDT)
You can always download the complete DB and deploy it locally and do all the searches you want in it. Does not help much if you need it sporadically but if you are working on some kind of a project, that may be your best bet. All our downloads are here. We even have a How-to on how to bring up just the DB... :) Annie (talk) 19:31, 12 July 2024 (EDT)
Not exactly database issues, but the Advanced Search software would have to be revamped, which, unfortunately, would be a non-trivial project. Ahasuerus (talk) 19:31, 12 July 2024 (EDT)

Magazine series numbering help

The Series Num section of Help:Screen:NewPub doesn't mention anything about how we don't enter anything in this field for magazine/fanzine/webzine issues. I poked around a bit, and I couldn't find anything about this on the Help:How to work with series or Help:How to add a magazine issue to the magazine's issue grid pages, either. I'm pretty sure I've read it somewhere before, but I can't find it anywhere. Is there somewhere this is documented? Should we add a note about this to that Series Num section? Not sure if this is a Rules discussion yet, so putting it here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:19, 11 July 2024 (EDT)

Charles Clark

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?203823; I can't find info about the novelist or the poet but they're almost certainly 2 different people so if anyone can find anything then they can be separated. --Username (talk) 11:40, 14 July 2024 (EDT)

I separated the two. It is unlikely the 1937 novelist is the same person as the 1990 poet. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:23, 21 July 2024 (EDT)

Is Daniel M. Pinkwater above threshold?

Do we consider Daniel M. Pinkwater We have 4 submissions for 4 of his non-genre picture books sitting on the board for 4 months. My inclination is to just reject them as non-genre but he is pretty prolific in our genre as well. So do we consider him genre? If we do, there may be a LOT of these picture books cropping up (which is why I would like a second opinion). Thanks! Annie (talk) 14:33, 17 July 2024 (EDT)

I think he is above the threshold. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:53, 17 July 2024 (EDT)
I knew it... :( Will process and fix them then and mark them as non-genre. Annie (talk) 15:11, 17 July 2024 (EDT)

Server maintenance - 2024-07-18 at 6pm EDT

The server will be down for maintenance between 6pm and 6:10pm EDT (Eastern Daylight Time). Ahasuerus (talk) 17:15, 18 July 2024 (EDT)

Done. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:06, 18 July 2024 (EDT)

Display of ISO currency codes

We have seen requests to display ISO currency codes -- e.g., "USD" for US dollars -- for prices. The last one was posted in February. I have added ISO codes to pre-existing mouseover bubbles for the following currencies:

  • Bulgarian Levs, e.g. this pub, since they are a good example of a currency that has had multiple ISO codes
  • Euros, e.g. this pub
  • UK pounds, e.g. this pub
  • US dollars, e.g. this pub

Let's see if these changes look OK. If they do, I can add ISO codes to other currency symbols next week. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:31, 20 July 2024 (EDT)

Those look good to me. Phil (talk) 11:36, 21 July 2024 (EDT)
Same here. --MartyD (talk) 11:58, 21 July 2024 (EDT)
Hearing no objection, I have added the rest of the ISO codes to mouseover bubbles. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:16, 22 July 2024 (EDT)

Olaf Stapledon / Nebula Maker ~ Four Encounters

I am working on Olaf Stapledon's Nebula Maker and also Four Encounters. I make the approx word counts 25,000 and 33,000 respectively so they are both comfortably novellas. So I propose to change them accordingly which will involve changing all the singleton pubs from Novel to Chapbook and changing the hc and tp of Nebula Maker & Four Encounters from Omnibus to Collection.
Other major issues I have identified so far are:
this Bran's Head 1 hc of Nebula Maker is titled "Nebula Maker" (with quotation marks) on its title page so I will correct this and do the varianting
this Bran's Head 2 hc of Four Encounters is titled "4 Encounters" (numeric 4) on its title page so I will correct this and do the varianting
Looking through all the pub records pertaining to these two titles, I have identified six active PVs and have pointed them to this thread for comment. Teallach (talk) 18:14, 21 July 2024 (EDT)

25,000 words seems a legit argument to me.--Dirk P Broer (talk) 18:37, 21 July 2024 (EDT)
I remember - upon verifying the relevant publication - of wanting to do someday a word count, as I suspected the same, but didn't came around to do it. So thanks for actually doing it and therefeore determining the correct categories. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 15:46, 23 July 2024 (EDT)

Publication sort order field syntax check overly strick

I was editing a publication with a sort field with an existing value of '[5]|.5'. It's no longer legal syntax, which seems overly strict. (I worked around the issue by changing the field to '[5]|0.5'). --Glenn (talk) 02:09, 24 July 2024 (EDT)