Difference between revisions of "ISFDB:Community Portal"

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(→‎Joshua T. Calvert / Joshua Tree: Same photo used by Amazon for the two author pages)
 
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{{isfdb-comm-portal-header}}
 
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{{Shortcut3|shortcut1=ISFDB:COMMPORTAL|link1=ISFDB:COMMPORTAL|shortcut2=ISFDB:CP|link2=ISFDB:CP|shortcut3=COMMPORTAL|link3=COMMPORTAL}}
  
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== My Recently Changed Primary Verifications tweaked ==
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== Through the Budgerigar ==
  
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The Web page [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/changed_verified_pubs.cgi ''My Recently Changed Primary Verifications''] has been updated to display the word "Webpage" in the "Changed field" column when appropriate. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:53, 1 February 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?925198; While adding LCCN to Jones novel Transplant I noticed this book was added not long ago and while SFE mentions it and even a cover artist there seems to be no evidence of a cover online; can anyone find one? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:06, 3 January 2024 (EST)
  
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: Any chance you could link from the 'New' icon directly to this report? It seems that it's the only one like this. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 18:41, 5 February 2022 (EST)
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== To the Sound of Freedom II==
  
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== Knight Rider ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal/Archive/Archive53#To_the_Sound_of_Freedom; I came across this record again today; should it get an all-8's date? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:24, 4 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?56540; Did some edits for these recently, did more today, last book says -also as by- but names are the same, which is probably a mistake; also, last book is missing American cover but I can't find anywhere usable and refuse to upload a Knight Rider cover, so maybe someone can find a usable one on the list of sites ISFDB is friendly with. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:51, 1 February 2022 (EST)
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== HG Wells and His Critics ==
  
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== Shocking Tales ==
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https://archive.org/search?query=wells-and-his-critics; Anyone know a way to tell which of the 3 publishers these copies are from so I can add links? The USA one has no record; maybe it was never actually published by them. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 22:38, 5 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?284952; I just fixed a few things for this; 2 questions I have are does anyone know whose signature that is on low left corner and why there's an ASIN ID for this 1946 book? --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:55, 2 February 2022 (EST)
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== Top Science Fiction ==
  
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== Application for self-approval status -- MLB ==
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https://archive.org/search?query=pachter-josh+top&sort=-addeddate; Someone added intros to this anthology recently, I added archived link long ago, just noticed a Spanish-language edition, La crema de la ciencia ficción, was upped to Archive.org in 2013 in case anyone fluent wants to enter that. EDIT: From the same publisher is La Crema del crimen, https://archive.org/search?query=crema-del-crimen, which includes a few stories from ISFDB judging by back cover. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:40, 6 January 2024 (EST)
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:I will add the Spanish one.  What the heck. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 13:12, 6 January 2024 (EST)
  
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MLB is being shy about directly asking (after asking [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Moderator_noticeboard#A_Question here]) so here we go. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:40, 2 February 2022 (EST)
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== Pachter ==
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: Support. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:40, 2 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Support. Does a great job. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:59, 2 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Support. Long overdue. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 14:14, 2 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Support --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 14:26, 2 February 2022 (EST)
 
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:Support.--[[User:Chris J|Chris J]] 15:38, 2 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Support.  Wholeheartedly! --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 13:51, 5 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
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=== Outcome ===
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1914279; Josh Pachter is credited as "with" on title page of 2015 English edition on Archive.org. Should he be added as co-author? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:21, 6 January 2024 (EST)
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:I didn't check the Archive.org copy, but the Look Inside on Amazon shows that "with" citation, but then on the copyright page it says the English translation is copyright 2015 Dhooge and Pachter.  There is also a copyright 2014 for Dhooge and the original publisher.  I interpret that to mean Pachter's role was (co-?)translator.  I found Pachter's [http://www.joshpachter.com/bib/bibliography.html bibliography page], and this listed in the "Translations" section.  But just to avoid having anything be too clear, he also has [http://www.joshpachter.com/bib/bib.styx.html this], where he talks about previously translating another Dhooge work and being asked to "collaborate on an American version" of this one.  So does that mean this isn't a translation but is actually a major revision?  Dunno.  Given that Pachter only takes credit for translating it, I think noting him as translator and documenting the "with" citation and the copyright statements (could throw in the Pachter site references as a bonus) should be sufficient.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 13:30, 6 January 2024 (EST)
  
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Success; self-approver flag set on the account. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:51, 8 February 2022 (EST)
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== Star Gors ==
  
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== Possible canonical name change [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?1361 Mary A. Turzillo] ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5851689; I was adding links and adding/fixing other stuff in some Gor editions, mostly UK Star PB, when I noticed an artist's signature for Players of Gor, Star edition, is on the cover but ISFDB had no credit. I tried several names I thought it could be and finally got Tony Masero who, as far as I can tell, is credited exactly once on the entire net for doing this cover, an AbeBooks/Biblio seller's description, but AbeBooks show the wrong (Daw Books) cover and Biblio's scan of the right cover is much too small to see the signature clearly. So I think I got a rare one. As can be seen here, [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?USE_1=pub_title&O_1=exact&TERM_1=&C=AND&USE_2=pub_publisher&O_2=exact&TERM_2=star&USE_3=pub_title&O_3=contains&TERM_3=of+gor&USE_4=pub_title&O_4=exact&TERM_4=&USE_5=pub_title&O_5=exact&TERM_5=&USE_6=pub_title&O_6=exact&TERM_6=&USE_7=pub_title&O_7=exact&TERM_7=&USE_8=pub_title&O_8=exact&TERM_8=&USE_9=pub_title&O_9=exact&TERM_9=&USE_10=pub_title&O_10=exact&TERM_10=&ORDERBY=pub_year&ACTION=query&START=0&TYPE=Publication], there are 5 other Star editions with no cover credit; if anyone can find a signature on any of them, beat me to it and enter them yourselves. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 21:49, 6 January 2024 (EST)
  
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Before adding the remaining 43 titles to [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?878584 this] publication, I gathered the following information for a possible canonical name change.
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== Night Mayor Cover Art ==
  
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Titles using the following names:
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?474; I noticed that the cover art for the original UK HC and the US C&G HC, which is the same, is credited to 2 different artists here. It's easy to find photos of the back flap of US online which does say design by Roy Colmer but of the several eBay sellers who offer the UK none thought to show the back flap. There are many C&G Colmer design credits online so I'm thinking Kemp did the art and US just didn't credit him, only their designer. So should we make C&G artist Jon Kemp with a note about him not being credited? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:11, 10 January 2024 (EST)
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*110  Mary A. Turzillo (approximate)
 
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*104 Mary Turzillo
 
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*12  Various other alternate names
 
  
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Her website and LiveJournal use 'Mary A. Turzillo'. SFE also refers to her this way. Beside the above collection, four additional collections still need their contents added. All are credited to 'Mary Turzillo'. Opinions? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 08:00, 3 February 2022 (EST)
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:I have the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?44644 UK hc of Kim Newman / The Night Mayor]. The rear flap of the dust jacket states: "Jacket Illustration: Jon Kemp" and "Jacket Design: Bostock & Pollitt Ltd." [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:44, 18 January 2024 (EST)
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: When were those collections published - aka are they new (so move towards that name) or old? Considering what her website uses, it seems like her preferred name is the "A." version and as the numbers are close enough (I know the 4 collections will tip it), I'd leave it as is and keep an eye on her for now. But that's just my 2 cents :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:26, 3 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
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:: The additional four collections are dated 2007,2008,2014, and 2017. There is no distinctive trend, she has used both names throughout. I don't feel strongly either way. My intention is to allow a week for comments. Thanks for
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== Darrah Chavey's Passing ==
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replying. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 15:37, 3 February 2022
 
  
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::: After further investigation, it appears she uses 'Mary Turzillo' primarially for collections and 'Mary A. Turzillo' for everything else. I'm leaving the canonical name unchanged. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 18:55, 12 February 2022 (EST)
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I was saddened to read this morning of [[User:Chavey|Chavey]]'s passing in [https://file770.com/pixel-scroll-1-10-24-tom-swift-and-his-scrolling-pixels/ File 770] (Number 7 in the Pixel Scroll).  It was always a pleasure to work with him here and he will be missed.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 06:49, 11 January 2024 (EST)
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:I replaced link on his page with an updated one; also, while adding a link to the issue of the zine, Aurora, where his Walton essays appeared I discovered that most issues of Aurora and its predecessor Janus are on Archive.org, he PV most (all?) of them, but some have full contents while others have nothing. I imported a few poems from Robert Frazier, Steven M. Tymon, etc. but there's a ton of other book reviews and articles and stuff for anyone who's interested. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:15, 11 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Psychotic ==
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:: Sad news indeed. He had a heart attack a few years ago and has been less active since then, but he was only 69, so it was unexpected. Thanks for updating his User and Talk pages. I have updated user rights on his account. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 23:11, 12 January 2024 (EST)
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:Rtrace, thanks for letting us all know. I echo your sentiments. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:47, 13 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=psychotic%2C&type=Fiction+Titles; Lots of different editors, but I feel none of these are actually short fiction. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:55, 3 February 2022 (EST)
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== Barn Owl ==
  
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== SFE Issue ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?4296; I made an edit for City of Hermits long ago and today added some more stuff; I think this Barn Owl is not the same as the other that published much later. Ann Jungman who wrote a few of the later ones has a Wiki page where it says she founded Barn Owl in 1999 so I think the 1983 one should get a USA or California or something added to it. Whoever wrote the note about Frances Lincoln here seems to have conflated the 2 publishers; the England location probably belongs with the later publisher. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 08:27, 11 January 2024 (EST)
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:I separated out [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?4296 Barn Owl Books (UK)] and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?83339 Barn Owl Books (USA)] based on the ISBN's. I also updated the notes for Barn Owl Books (UK) based on [https://www.thebookseller.com/news/frances-lincoln-acquires-barn-owl this article]. When untangling publishers, the [https://grp.isbn-international.org/ Global Register of Publishers] can be of help. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 09:11, 13 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5216264; http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5216277; SF-Encyclopedia has many cover images (and artist credits) that don't really show up in online searches; I was adding several covers (some new, some better than old ones on ISFDB) and artists today without a problem until those 2 linked above. Not sure what that warning means, but I'm sure someone here does. Other Mystic Rebel book covers will be replaced, too, but I'll wait until this is cleared up before doing that. --[[User:Username|Username]] 13:43, 4 February 2022 (EST)
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== Pat Frank Title ==
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: The message is very clear: "For SFE-hosted images, only links to /clute/, /langford/ and /robinson/ sub-directories are allowed.". The link you are trying to add is to a fourth subdirectory (/gal/spy_guys/) for both which we do NOT have permissions to link directly to. It is a public image but we cannot deep-link to it - the same way we cannot link to the the Goodreads images directly. Either you need to find these covers elsewhere or you need to bring them in our DB - we cannot link to them in SFE.
 
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: In addition, even for the images in the 3 sub-directories which we are allowed to use from SFE, we cannot use the images links as they are, we need to use a special format ("For images hosted by this site, the URL of the associated Web page must be entered after a '|'" - so image_link|page_where_the_image_is_linked_in_SFE and not just image_link.) - we have a few sites like that so if the yellow message reminds of that, the rules will need to be followed or we cannot link to that cover. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:56, 4 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
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:: Well, I remember Mystic Rebel because I replaced 4 covers out of the 6 books in the series with better ones on Amazon months ago, and the editor who worked on these books originally is long gone, so the SFE covers are the best anyone's going to get (they're all beautifully framed and photographed, definitely better than Amazon's). However, I hesitate to upload covers unless they're for rare or small-press books; if I uploaded better covers for every mass-market PB I wouldn't have time for anything else. So I think what I'll do is cancel the 2 edits I made and just add a link on the Mystic Rebel series page here to SFE's page for these books so people can see the covers if they wish. Also, none of the many other SFE covers I added/replaced today had any error messages, and I believe SFE made major changes to their site recently, so all that stuff about adding "|" and sub-directories may be outdated. In the future, I'll add covers with no warnings and delete ones with warnings so I don't receive any more angry messages. --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:15, 4 February 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5856366; I added cover image long ago; just came across archived copy which was there years before my edit so I'm not sure why I didn't add it back then but I did now and also added dash in title, H-Bomb, but I noticed there's another part of the title that people can't decide on. Mhhutchins entered it with 3 dots but title page has one GIANT dot while facing page has long dash and LOC/WorldCat has comma. So what's the consensus? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:44, 11 January 2024 (EST)
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::: There are no angry messages anywhere - deep linking to a source we are not allowed to link to or not following the rules of a source which imposes conditions to allow deep-links can get us in trouble (including SFE not allowing us to use any of their covers in this case). That's the reality of internet etiquette and permissions around deep-linking I am afraid - an image deep link means that we show the image here but use their bandwidth and they pay for the traffic while they don't really get a visitor to their site - which can get very expensive on some hosting plans (and that's why we need explicit permissions and we follow whatever conditions the source has).
 
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::: I will ping Ahasuerus to check if the message for the format of the SFE links needs an update or if the software needs an update and we need a cleanup report to fix the ones added naked. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:27, 4 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
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:::: I think I figured it out; all acceptable images start with "x.sf-encyclopedia.com" while rejected ones start with "sf-encyclopedia.uk". --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:30, 4 February 2022 (EST)
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== Sue Robinson ==
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::::: Different sites, different rules on the permissions we have. I pinged Ahasuerus anyway to make sure the software does what it is supposed to anyway - we've had wrongly coded permissions checks when the sites are close enough before. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:32, 4 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
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:::::: I see original editor for these Mystic Rebel books was long gone but came back recently after a long absence; I had 1 dealing with them since then which didn't go well, so if anyone has any further questions about these books they can always ask that editor. Also, the site I got all images from is https://sf-encyclopedia.com/, but bad .uk images are also on that site, so the 2 sites seem connected. --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:52, 4 February 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?16675; I added archived link and a few other things to the HC of Amendment; author is a respected American newsperson. She should be differed from the Australian author. 1992 story in Weird Tales may be by either of them or another person since there's no bio in that issue. Also, does anyone own Amendment PB? It has nice cover art but there's no back cover photo online where I assume the artist would be credited. I see some weird blocks in the lower right, P and another letter, maybe initials or maybe just part of the art. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:10, 11 January 2024 (EST)
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:I separated out ''The Amendment'' to {{A|Sue Robinson (I)|373246}}. The author blurb for ''The Amendment'' does not align with the bio for the more prominent newspaper reporter of the same name, nor does that person list ''The Amendment'' as one of their works on their personal or faculty website. So probably two different reporters with same name. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 09:55, 13 January 2024 (EST)
  
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::::::: Well, this is odd. I went back to the Mystic Rebel gallery and it's also on .com, and those images are acceptable. So I think what happened is some image I was looking for was linked to the UK site, and then further image edits here were all unacceptable because they were UK. So the key is to always make sure you're adding images from the .com site. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:05, 4 February 2022 (EST)
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== Peter Goodfellow ==
  
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(unindent) Re: SFE links, it's a long and convoluted story. The short version is that the online version of SFE was originally sponsored by a UK publisher. Because of that association and -- presumably -- because of the expectation that SFE Web pages would help the publisher sell more books, our links to SFE pages had more restrictions than our links to other third party sites.
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http://petergoodfellow.com/index.php/2-uncategorised/18-misc2; I added a few credits for this artist but the last one has me stumped because the 1992 edition had the same cover as the last image here, http://petergoodfellow.com/index.php/2-uncategorised/18-misc2, but that was wrong because archived copy has the same Posen cover as the later printing on ISFDB. Goodfellow cover has an M for Mammoth so was it an earlier or later edition and why can't I find the original Methuen cover anywhere? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:54, 12 January 2024 (EST)
  
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The publisher and the editorial team behind SFE parted ways in 2021. The SFE site is now under complete control of the SFE team. A few days after the transition I asked Dave Langford, their technical administrator, if the change of ownership meant that there was going to be a change to how other sites could link to SFE. The answer was that there would be no changes, at least in the short term. That said, Dave has more control over the software now, so perhaps things will change in the foreseeable future, but that's where we are at the moment. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:07, 4 February 2022 (EST)
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== French Swastika ==
  
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: Spot-checking a bunch of SFE URLs, I see that there may have been a change in the URL structure. I don't think I have seen URLs like x.sf-encyclopedia.com/gal/matthews/HancockHI-Gold.jpg before. Let me check with Dave... [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:20, 4 February 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5857839; French speakers, I made my usual shaky attempt at entering a foreign-language edition but I felt a book of such fame probably deserved it; after approval if anyone cares to look it over I'm sure it can be improved. I also made a follow-up edit changing date of French variant to a year earlier to match the date of this book. Also, those Feminist Press editions, https://archive.org/search?query=swastika-night&sort=-addeddate&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22, are a mess, the one with the white cover matches the UK Lawrence & Wishart edition's cover but has the info of the '85 Feminist edition, while the other 2 with the face on the cover either a) have no price on the back and totally different back cover text but copyright page is the same or b) are a 4th printing from 2003, I think, with cover info on copyright page the '85 edition doesn't have and a missing back cover so no way to tell what was on there. If anyone cares to figure all that out. For some reason the French edition I mentioned above is in English according to Archive.org which is obviously wrong. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:59, 12 January 2024 (EST)
  
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:: We have our answer. For technical reasons, SFE is now using "x.sf-encyclopedia.com" and "sf-encyclopedia.uk" URLs interchangeably. The same rules apply to both sets of URLs. I will be updating the yellow warning later today, once the backups finish. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:33, 5 February 2022 (EST)
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== UK Omni ==
  
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::: So does this mean my SFE edits on hold will be accepted, rejected, etc. (a few already were) and should I continue to add more (there are likely hundreds of them if not thousands) or wait? If your note means that any SFE cover image will get a yellow warning after today then I'm not even going to bother with them anymore. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:42, 5 February 2022 (EST)
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https://fantlab.ru/edition356174; I added archived links to the 6 volumes of Best of Omni and noticed FantLab has a photo of #6 with a UK price on it in case anyone knows more about that; maybe all 6 were published there but, if so, none are on ISFDB. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:23, 14 January 2024 (EST)
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::::It means "only links to /clute/, /langford/ and /robinson/ sub-directories are allowed." Your edits will be processed based on that. You can add any links under those subdirectories. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 13:02, 5 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
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::::: So checking my accepted edits I see that JLaTondre reverted every accepted SFE cover I added recently back to their old inferior covers except for 1 that's in Clute, Mr. Klein's Kampf, and even that was modified by him to add a pipe and other stuff to the URL. So even after the site is under new management and their links and everything else are being changed, this deal with only a few directories being usable, and even those needing to modify every URL with all that extra stuff, is still necessary? Is anyone going to ask the guy in charge now if maybe now that the old guard is gone they might want to become 1 of those sites that let ISFDB use their URL's without uploading? Their covers don't usually show up on Google Image searches, so the fact that they have MANY superior covers to the ones already on ISFDB is probably news to a lot of people. SFE might appreciate the traffic. How disappointing; those covers could have kept me occupied for months. --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:08, 5 February 2022 (EST)
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== Tiret-Bognet ==
  
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::::::Ahasuerus did ask & received the response that there is no change. See the post of his you replied to above... --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 14:55, 5 February 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=bognet&type=Name; same Verne illustrator, same book in different languages, one should be parent and maybe some of the art needs merging, Holmesd worked on many of these Verne books so he'd probably know. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (EST)
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::::::: And all links to the SFE images need to have the extended syntax with the pipe as described in our documentation as per our agreement with SFE. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:02, 5 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
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(unindent) OK, I have updated the yellow warnings. As stated above, only links to /clute/, /langford/ and /robinson/ sub-directories are allowed for both sf-encyclopedia.com and sf-encyclopedia.uk. All of their URLs require the currently used "|" syntax. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:45, 5 February 2022 (EST)
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== Server maintenance 2024-01-15 at 3pm EST ==
  
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== Clarke and Dunsany ==
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The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance on 2024-01-15 (today) between 3pm and 3:10pm EST. The database and the Wiki will be unavailable. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:09, 15 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisheryear.cgi?628+1998; added several missing covers for this publisher, but for this year I think 1 of those Correspondence editions is redundant and can probably be deleted. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:58, 4 February 2022 (EST)
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: The server is back up. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:06, 15 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Astounding/Analog links to luminist scans ==
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== N. Katerli ==
  
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Beginning in about 1960 there are no Internet Archive links for Astounding/Analog. Links to luminist are used instead. But those links go to a Google Drive account. Example [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?57369 in this issue]. In my case, this leads to some rather iffy options for downloading the file rather than viewing online as with Internet Archive. This is not a method I trust.--[[User:Swfritter|swfritter]] 18:14, 4 February 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=katerli&type=Name; I found a huge (380+ pages) thread on FantLab's message boards with people who have died, many of which were never entered on ISFDB (not all genre, though, some footballers and other non-genre people are included, too) and while adding many dates and photos I came across Katerli; I added Wiki link, day of death, and photo to Nina's record but is that other spelling the same person? If so, some variant would probably be needed. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:25, 17 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:It's very possible, given how things get romanized from Eastern European languages. Perhaps one of our Eastern European language people can do a little digging? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:30, 17 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::Looking into it a bit myself, I'm 100% sure they are the same person. Working on connecting them. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:57, 17 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::Okay, everything is [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?373565 here], now. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:27, 17 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
: I agree that we shouldn't be linking to scans of post-1926, i.e. potentially copyrighted, books/magazines uploaded to Google Drive and similar services. There is no way of telling what their copyright status may be without doing the kind of comprehensive copyright search that Gutenberg and similar sites do before they make scans and OCRs publicly available. Our editors and moderators are not well equipped to do that kind of work. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:53, 5 February 2022 (EST)
+
::: Thanks for working on her stories. I have added dates and updated the author record. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 21:51, 17 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
:: My problem is not with copyrights but with links to weird places. The most likely reason that there are no post-1960 Astounding/Analog scans on the Internet Archive is that they were properly copyrighted. Most of the magazines were not properly copyrighted and if they were copyrighted in the first place, the copyrights were quite often not properly renewed. It wasn't until about 1988 that copyrights did not have to be registered with the government. In any case, the worse that is likely to happen is a take-down notice.--[[User:Swfritter|swfritter]] 16:51, 5 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Terry Venables ==
  
−
== Rename Andre Norton series  ==
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5861442; Is this the famous footballer (or soccer, as we Yanks call it)? There seem to be a lot of photos of him but some of them look like a different person so just making sure this is the right guy (he wrote some novels including Bornless Keeper which is on ISFDB but online info seems to suggest he didn't actually write any of it, Gordon Williams did). --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:44, 17 January 2024 (EST)
  
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I would like to rename the Andre Norton series [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?1459 Jern Murdoc] to "Zero Stone / Murdoc Jern". The actual character name is Murdoc Jern. The series is named "Zero Stone Series by Andre Norton (Series aka) Murdoc Jern" on the andre-norton.com website. Are there any objections? Thanks! [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 13:16, 5 February 2022 (EST)
+
: Yes, things like that do happen: there are several titles in the database for which it is doubtful if the featured prominent author did actually write them; and so, jugig from the photo and the theme of the listed title it is '''the''' Terry Venables. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] ([[User talk:Stonecreek|talk]]) 07:38, 18 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::I can confirm that the photo in your submission is indeed of the English footballer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Venables Terry Venables]. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:42, 18 January 2024 (EST)
  
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: I believe I was the last editor to update this series name, but I don't recall the specifics and have no objections. At one point we had a discussion of Norton's numerous overlapping series and there were some arguments re: how they would be best organized, but I don't think we ever reached consensus. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:14, 5 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Alchemy Magazine ==
  
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::Thanks. Submitted. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 18:06, 5 February 2022 (EST)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?35135; Luminist.org has a lot of magazines not on Archive.org and while replacing cover and adding link to Alchemy #2 I noticed all 3 issues have a different format, TP/unknown/pulp. Those who know about such things may want to adjust those since I'm assuming they all should be the same format. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 01:11, 18 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
::: Approved. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 18:34, 5 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Dinotopia Digest Novels ==
  
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== Proposed Date help text revision ==
+
I just made about 20 edits for this series (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5862661 through https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5862859) and as usual with series books it's a nightmare; I think I did as much as I could with what's available (oddly, only 1 book, Survive!, didn't have its original Random House edition entered on ISFDB so I had to scrounge up a copy on Google Books to enter info from). I think only one thing may raise questions and that's this, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2230051, where an editor here in 2017 entered James Gurney as cover artist but even though he's mentioned on all copyright pages because he's the creator/owner of Dinotopia it was actually Michael Welply who did all the covers. Problem is after I removed cover credit (I didn't enter Welply because while it does say that in archived 3rd printing copy there are some 1st printings of books in the series that misspelled it as Welpley and then corrected that in later printings) I noticed the nomination for best cover in the art record. So I don't know what to make of that; was Gurney nominated because he's the creator or did someone make a mistake and not nominate the real artist, Welply? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:58, 18 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
Cross-posted to R & S Discussions as well.  I have a draft revision of the help text for publication dates available at [[User:MartyD/ProposedDateHelp]] for review.  This is meant to codify/clarify existing rules/policies, not to define anything new or different. A special thanks to the early reviewers.  Please comment on the discussion page there.  Thanks! --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 13:32, 5 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Pratchett's Eric - converting into novella? ==
  
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: The official [[:Template:PublicationFields:Date]] has been updated with the proposed text. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 12:40, 12 February 2022 (EST)
+
I did a word count on a digital version of [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1832 Eric], and it's around 35000 words, i.e. clearly a novella. Comments on the title and various publication records point out how unusually short it is. [http://www.locusmag.com/index/b381.htm Locus] calls the first edition a novella, but later editions a novel. I think the novella classification is correct, but am hesitant in converting such a high-profile title. Any opinions? [[User:TerokNor|TerokNor]] ([[User talk:TerokNor|talk]]) 08:01, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Morlan's Amulet ==
+
: My electronic copy contains 34.2K words, so it's a novella. That said, I wonder about Locus changing its classification after the first edition. Is there any indication that later editions may have been longer? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 11:43, 19 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:: I can find no indication of there being different editions of the text. I noticed however that after the original illustrated edition (which was billed "A Discworld Story"), it usually says "A Discworld Novel" on the covers, so Locus might have just gone with that. [[User:TerokNor|TerokNor]] ([[User talk:TerokNor|talk]]) 13:59, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?16138; TP cover was missing, I added it, noticed the e-book cover here has the same creases and marks, typed e-book ISBN into Google Images, only 1 cover came up, [https://images-cdn.e-sentral.com/publishdrive/9781434447135-big.jpg], cover has A.R. Morlan's name below the title unlike other covers, so I don't know what's up but I think that may be the real e-book cover and the one here now is actually the TP cover which I just entered for the TP edition. --[[User:Username|Username]] 13:50, 5 February 2022 (EST)
+
:::: It sounds like it's a novella whose subtitle (but not the word count) was changed in later editions. I suggest we wait for other editors to share their thoughts before we change the type from NOVEL to SHORTFICTION. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:49, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Bill Longley ==
+
:::I added an Archive.org link in a PENDING edit to The Illustrated Eric, 2010 Gollancz HC, so that may help with the counting; page count said 144 but it is actually 131. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:26, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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As this is the Community Portal, I'm just letting our more recent editors know that our mod [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?113161 Bill Longley] passed away this day in 2014. He was a knowledgable and popular guy, he used to run an [https://isfdb.livejournal.com/ ISFDB blog] over on Live Journal, and he shepherded my early years here. I wonder is it worth updating his reference work [https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/288178 Using the ISFDB]? Raising a glass in your memory, Bill. [[User:PeteYoung|PeteYoung]] 16:31, 5 February 2022 (EST)
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:::: I have approved the submission that corrected the page count and updated the Note field to indicate where the corrected page count comes from. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:49, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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: Bill was a good person and a valued contributor. Unfortunately, his guide is obsolete, but then it's been almost 9 years, an eternity in ISFDB terms. I am also not sure we could update it because the copyright page says "This book may be reproduced, copied and distributed for non-commercial purposes, provided the book remains in its complete original form". If an editor wants to preserve and update the information, it may be better to review Bill's guide and use it as an inspiration to fill in any lacunae that Help may have. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:12, 5 February 2022 (EST)
+
::::: (Chime) Not surprised, don't care, go ahead. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] ([[User talk:Holmesd|talk]]) 21:26, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Claude Y. ==
+
(unindent) Hearing no objection, I have left a message on TerokNor's Talk page asking him to proceed with the proposed changes. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:38, 24 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:Thank you. I have submitted the first edit to begin the process. [[User:TerokNor|TerokNor]] ([[User talk:TerokNor|talk]]) 05:19, 2 February 2024 (EST)
  
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https://www.ebay.fr/itm/393657246869; French-speaking people, this caught my eye, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?297863, because the author's name is actually Yelnick. That eBay link shows his true name but not on title page, so it's possible it's wrong there; also, there's a French price on the back, but I hesitate to enter that because I don't know how many editions this went through. So if anyone more familiar wants to take this. EDIT: some edition is here under his right name, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?565110. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:41, 6 February 2022 (EST)
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== Late Mods ==
  
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== Comic Book Adaptations ==
+
I had a thought while adding FantLab ID to a PV Brian Lumley book today; is there a way to remove the necessity of adding a note to the mod about what changes you made if the mod is deceased? There have been several mod losses recently, most of whom PV countless books, so it would save time to not have to write anything if the only PV's are ones who are not going to read those notes. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:23, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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I'm holding [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5218231 this edit].  The publication being edited appears to be a comic book adaptation of Stevenson's story.  I know that we have some exceptions for graphic novels of above the threshold authors (Gaiman comes to mind).  I don't believe that this publication falls into that exception.  If it did, we would need to track many other ''Classics Illustrated'' comics.  Does anyone disagree?  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 10:02, 7 February 2022 (EST)
+
: I think there are two sides to this issue.
−
: I agree with you - that one does not belong here. Robert Louis Stevenson is not above threshold. We had a conversation a few years ago on allowing adaptations of books which do belong here in their original form but it went nowhere and we never changed the policies on it. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:58, 7 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
::I agree, as the rules currently stand, that one doesn't belong here. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:43, 7 February 2022 (EST)
 
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:::Thanks all.  I have deleted the publication. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 06:46, 9 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
== New yellow warning for language mismatches ==
+
: The first one is technical, i.e. whether it would be possible to modify the software to check each primary verifier's Talk page to see if it starts with the "Deceased user" template. The short answer is "Yes, it would be possible, although it would also make our core software more closely intertwined with the Wiki software, which may become a minor nuisance during the next Wiki upgrade".
  
−
The software has been modified to display a yellow warning when trying to import a title into a publication whose "referral" title has a different language. This should make it easier to catch errors dealing with titles like "1984" and "Solaris", which are spelled the same way in multiple different languages. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:25, 7 February 2022 (EST)
+
: The second one is functional, i.e. whether making this kind of change would be desirable. I am not sure it would. It would save some keystrokes, but there is value to having more detailed Edit History for primary verified publications even if their verifiers are no longer available. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:42, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Fake Trek ==
+
== Moll/Head Virgin Planet ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?52303; Actually first published in August 1996 according to copyright page, but this, [https://x.sf-encyclopedia.com/gal/clute/Boyett-Treks.jpg], shows the subtitle to be different. There's a copy of the 1998 edition here, https://archive.org/details/isbn_9780060952761. Publisher of 1996 edition is very obscure; could it be related to this, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubs_not_in_series.cgi?17301? --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:37, 7 February 2022 (EST)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5864268; I added cover and prices but I think publisher should be changed to Wyndham, either Star or Tandem or Target which are all on ISFDB related to Wyndham, since their logo is on front and back covers, https://www.ebay.com/itm/143869122299. The other issue is the cover is the same Charles Moll art as earlier US paperbacks; Michael Head was a designer with 1 other ISFDB credit that notes say is just a photo and a Mike Head I noted in an edit earlier today as the designer for Piatkus edition of M. Bingley's Waiting Darkness did a cover which is just a photo of a fist. So where Head credit came from for Virgin Planet I don't know but I think Moll credit should replace it. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:09, 19 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Eddy Deco Cover ==
+
== One Hundred Years of Science Fiction ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/titlecovers.cgi?13902; The artwork is almost the same but the stuff at the top is different; should they merge or did Wilson really alter the cover for the later edition? EDIT: Also, after doing edits for several Wilson titles, I noticed 2 of his collections have "graphic format" next to them while the others don't. Should all have it or none? --[[User:Username|Username]] 07:55, 8 February 2022 (EST)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5864915; I'm guessing this Gollancz edition is rare judging by the fact there's almost no photos of the cover online. As can be seen in my edit, notes about year (probably very old and entered by the long-gone Bluesman) are obsolete now because the year is on the title page. Also, the price was entered by Mellotronman from his copy but for a 1969 UK book the pre-decimal price should be entered so that's what I did; problem is in his note to mod in edit history he says other price is 32s, not 30. So if he's still around he may want to PV and add a note about the alternate price (I'm assuming the archived copy's flap is badly framed which is why the other price is not visible) and delete year notes and add a new one saying the date is on the title page. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:31, 20 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:It doesn't help that two different printings share the same ISBN. Mine says 1970 on the front of the title page and 'second impression 1970' on the back of the same page. The price is most definitely listed on the dust jacket as '32s', an unusual way of writing 'shillings'. The more usual way would be '32/-'. Perhaps the first impression was 30s and the second 32? [[User:Mellotronman|Mellotronman]] ([[User talk:Mellotronman|talk]]) 16:55, 20 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::OK, I think it makes sense now, copy on Archive.org is '69 1st pr. with just s-price while your 1970 2nd pr. has both s-price and pounds. So after my edit is approved you may want to clone it and enter yours with new date and prices and PV it, too. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:07, 20 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Schwob's King ==
+
== Tom Palmer ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?613064; I ran across this and the name jogged a memory; I remembered seeing this when I used to be an avid reader decades ago, but in English. Turns out it's this, http://50watts.com/filter/july-2008/The-King-in-the-Golden-Mask. One of those editions was at the Central Library in Jamaica, N.Y. I don't remember anything about the stories, but after looking further I found this, https://fantlab.ru/searchmain?searchstr=marcel+schwob+king, which reveals there was a 2012 Tartarus edition and a 2021 Zagava edition, and Open Library mentions a 2017 Wakefield Press edition but there's little info about it, plus no English edition is available on Archive.org. An editor named Hauck made all the edits for the French version on ISFDB, so maybe he'd like to know there are many English editions out there, although some seem to take stories from several of Schwob's French collections. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:22, 8 February 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?98449; 2 or 3 different Palmers here; novels are by the guy pictured but the art credits are by the recently deceased (2022) famous comic artist who had a still-online site, tompalmerillustration, and a Wiki page as Tom Palmer (comics); the poem, judging by the bio at the archived Aphelion link, is by another likely American Palmer. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 21:58, 20 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Application for self-approval status -- henna ==
+
== Lone Star Law ==
  
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Hello, Annie asked me if I would like to get self-approved status. I say yes, and promise to handle it carefully. What do you say? {{unsigned|Henna}}
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?80404; Anyone think this should be deleted? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 17:34, 21 January 2024 (EST)
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: Support :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:35, 8 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Yes, absolutely, sort of overdue, I'd think. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 14:42, 8 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Support --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 15:02, 8 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Support. Definitely a good egg. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:32, 8 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Agree [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 13:34, 10 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Support --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 14:01, 10 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Support. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 15:18, 10 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
=== Outcome ===
+
: The Note field says:
 +
:* Western story anthology. It may have some spec-fic stories, but otherwise, there's no reason for it to be in the database.
 +
: Have we been able to find this anthology's table of contents and determine whether any of the stories are SF? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:23, 24 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::I was able to look at the ToC via the Amazon Look Inside feature for the pb edition (ISBN 978-1982153069) and I don't see anything there that looks like SF. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 15:38, 24 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
[[User:Henna]] is now a self-approver. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:38, 13 February 2022 (EST)
+
::: Reading the editor's introductions to each story I noticed that two stories were called "eerie". After reading them, I can confirm that one is an unambiguous ghost story while the other one is an ambiguous "curse" story. I have added them to the publication record and updated Notes. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 22:13, 24 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Invalid HREFs in Notes/Synopses ==
+
== Recording plagiarized work ==
  
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The cleanup report [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?191 Invalid HREFs in Notes] has been redesigned. In the past, it was limited to Publication notes. The new version covers all record types (titles, series, authors, awards, etc) and does a better job of finding malformed HREFs. It also superseded the cleanup report "Mismatched Double Quotes", which has been retired.
+
A couple of days ago [https://file770.com/pixel-scroll-1-19-24-all-these-pixels-are-someone-elses-fault/ File 770 reported] (item 5) that [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3221864 "After the Flood" by John Kucera] was plagiarised from another author. I've added a note to that title record, but I'm wondering whether anything else should be done, e.g. making it a variant? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] ([[User talk:ErsatzCulture|talk]]) 01:36, 22 January 2024 (EST)
  
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The new data will become available tomorrow morning; I expect approximately 220 records to be flagged.
+
: Unless the poem uses the same wording I'd think the only thing we can do is to add notes to the title (and likely the publications the plagiat was published in). Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] ([[User talk:Stonecreek|talk]]) 01:32, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:All three of the works "by" this author that are listed on ISFDB appear to have been plagiarized. I've added notes to the title entries as well as the publication entries. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:59, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:: Thanks all! [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] ([[User talk:ErsatzCulture|talk]]) 15:22, 22 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
Please note that the HTML standard requires that all HREFs to have double quotes around URLs. Most modern browsers try to be forgiving about missing quotes, but some older browsers get confused. The cleanup report will flag notes with missing quotes. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:28, 8 February 2022 (EST)
+
:::At some point, we should probably make them variants since (in all the reports I've read) only the title were changed by the plagiarizer. Similar to [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1570478 this one]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:34, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::::I've added the variants for the two I could figure out. Still unsure who originally wrote "[https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3205023 Summer 1993]" and what the original title was. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:15, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:::::How about this one, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2951283? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 16:29, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::::::Looks like it's the same guy per a Google search that brought up [https://eunoiareview.wordpress.com/2023/11/16/fanlight-and-ice/ this] ([https://web.archive.org/web/20240123001032/https://www.silverblade.net/tag/john-siepkes/ archive]), which is the same thing but under his Kucera name. Now to try to figure out who really wrote it. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:06, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::::::Some additional archive links to help us figure out all of this: [https://web.archive.org/web/20230604133528/https://thewildword.com/poetry-john-kucera/ Wild Word], [https://lothlorienpoetryjournal.blogspot.com/2024/01/john-kucera-exposed-as-serial-plagiarist.html Lothlorien Poetry Journal] ([https://web.archive.org/web/20240123004257/https://lothlorienpoetryjournal.blogspot.com/2024/01/john-kucera-exposed-as-serial-plagiarist.html archive]), [https://twitter.com/OneArtPoetry1/status/1747732242581876815 One Art Poetry on X], [https://web.archive.org/web/20230922115703/https://oneartpoetry.com/2023/09/11/two-poems-by-john-kucera/ One Art Poetry], [https://web.archive.org/web/20230530004119/https://www.fictionalcafe.com/spare-parts-poetry-by-john-kucera/ The Fictional Cafe], [https://web.archive.org/web/20240122101438/https://sparksofcalliope.com/2024/01/17/it-was-bound-to-happen-eventually/ Sparks of Calliope] (see also [https://web.archive.org/web/20240123004746/https://sparksofcalliope.com/2023/09/22/two-poems-by-john-kucera/ this page]), [https://issuu.com/newreadermagazine/docs/nrm_issue17_lowres_1_/s/16096176 New Reader Magazine] ([https://web.archive.org/web/20240123005036/https://issuu.com/newreadermagazine/docs/nrm_issue17_lowres_1_/s/16096176 archive]), [https://bsky.app/profile/wnwagner.bsky.social/post/3kj5gwyptla2o Wendy N. Wagner loves pie on BlueSky], and I'll add more later. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:31, 22 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Page count for books with cross book numbering ==
+
(unindent) I suspect that the issue of plagiarized works is going to become harder to deal with in the near future. In the past we had to deal with two types of scenarios:
  
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I'm adding a publication (The Two Towers) that starts on page 399. Should I use the rule for magazines and compute a page count? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 21:07, 8 February 2022 (EST)
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* word-for-word reprints with the title/credits changed, usually by shady publishers or self-publishers
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: Compute the number of pages for the "Pages" in the publication field but use the actual number printed in front of the contents (And add a note explaining what is going on). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 21:17, 8 February 2022 (EST)
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* more elaborate schemes whose perpetrators plagiarized sections of other authors' works
  
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== Podwil's Perfect Day ==
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The first type is fairly straightforward, but the second type is hard to catch. For example, volumes 29 and 33 in the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?4950 ''Casca'' series] were retroactively removed from the series over allegations of plagiarism in April-June 2013. It happened 3-5 years after their original publication even though the Casca fandom is very active. It's not something that we, bibliographers, can realistically identify on our own.
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1993568; I added cover to $1.50 undated Fawcett ed. of I. Levin's This Perfect Day, same cover as $1.75 1976 edition linked above, so cover art clearly dates from earlier in case anyone knows when it was first used. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:32, 9 February 2022 (EST)
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Over the last few months I have seen a number of reports of plagiarists using software to scrape Web-published stories, massage them using ChatGPT and put them on Amazon, e.g. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgressionFantasy/comments/18v1d5e/attention_authors_of_rr_there_has_been_a_spree_of/ this episode over the Christmas holidays]. I suspect it's going to be a pain to deal with. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 22:29, 24 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Fulton ==
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== Bard II ==
  
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https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/greenwichtime/name/elizabeth-fulton-obituary?id=10021405; I ran across this, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?45058, and remembered that cool cover from when the book first came out. While trying to find a better cover I found that the author died last year; also, her other novel is also on ISFDB, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?53251, under a different name. I remember finding a cover for Vengeance months ago but not adding it here because the Tor logo didn't look like a 1987 one; although Amazon says that's the year, this, https://www.ebay.com/itm/143563408404, seems to have the right info, being from 1982. From the description on the back, I don't know what qualifies it for inclusion here; maybe Mhhutchins does because he entered it in 2014. So if anyone wants to they can add bio info to whichever name they think appropriate, and decide whether Vengeance belongs here, and if it does whether the 1987 printing actually exists. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:41, 10 February 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?291859; Wrong cover, it has price and ISBN of earlier printing, I can't find right cover, if anyone else can, can you upload it and replace this one? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:47, 22 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:Also, The First Long Ship (or Longship on some sites) which has no cover online I can find so if it exists and someone can find it that needs uploading, too. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:03, 22 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== 15-Foot Spider ==
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== Galactic Central Images ==
  
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https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/97/03/09/lifetimes/kin-r-it.html; Should there be 2 separate entries for this, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?717766, since they're really the same? EDIT: The '59, '63 and '90 issues have the same, uh, issue; I didn't check the 2000's issues. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:48, 10 February 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5867682; The only other site I can find that has this cover is Camelot Books; I was going to upload it when I thought of checking Philsp and found it hiding there. Is the owner(s) of that site ever going to upgrade to HTTPS? Right-click and "open image in new tab" does show the image but it still would be better if that didn't have to be done. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:43, 22 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Changing canonical name "Edgar Malboeuf" to "RavensDagger" ==
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: Last I heard, the owner said that he had no plans to upgrade to HTTPS. That said, browser vendors have been making it harder to access HTTP sites, which puts pressure on site owners to upgrade. It remains to be seen how it may affect Galactic Central in the future. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:21, 24 January 2024 (EST)
  
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This author has published one novel (2013) as {{A|Edgar Malboeuf}} and 5 novels as "RavensDagger". He also has a large number of online serials being published as by "RavensDagger".
+
== German Playboy ==
  
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Given the fact that he averages over 90K words of fiction per month (sic), I expect that well over 95% of his publicly available output is as by "RavensDagger". I propose that we change his canonical name accordingly. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:23, 10 February 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?757; While replacing sideways Amazon cover with better straight cover for one of these books I noticed there are 8 or 9 that don't have cover credits (last book was unpublished so likely no cover exists); since most covers in the series were originally on English-language books it's likely the missing ones were, too, so if anyone can recognize the art then artists can be entered and variants can be made. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:08, 24 January 2024 (EST)
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: Looks like a good idea. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:19, 11 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
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:: Done. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:14, 15 February 2022 (EST)
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== Brian Ames Title ==
  
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== 2 Ralph Smiths ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?119003; I added a link to a MOTA anthology over a year ago and there's a 2002 story by Brian Ames which editors before me seemed to have trouble deciding how to enter (see extensive title edit history), eventually settling on a symbol; however, in his collection someone entered the title as "grey blob", which is what it actually looks like in the anthology. So the 2 stories are the same and should be merged but what should the title be entered as? This reminds me of that David J. Schow horror story where nobody can ever decide how to enter it and eventually settled on "scribbled graffiti" or this, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?76213, but at least Oates can get away with that because most of her work is pretentious "literary" stuff, anyway. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:22, 24 January 2024 (EST)
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:Merged [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2148942 here]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:39, 24 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?8649; I was going to add (artist) to the 2nd guy but if that 1st guy's cartoon book isn't supposed to be here then there's no need to. Thoughts? --[[User:Username|Username]] 08:38, 11 February 2022 (EST)
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== Duplicate finder -- NOVEL/CHAPBOOK? ==
  
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== Dickens and Ghosts ==
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The "Duplicate Finder" program, which exists in three incarnations -- one for Author pages, one for Title pages and one for Publication pages -- searches for potential duplicate titles and then lets you merge them. Its default mode of operations is "exact", which means that two (or more) titles need to have the exact same spelling as well as the same authors in order to be considered potential duplicates.
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?720157; Original British edition was missing page # and cover, I added those, intro in later editions was also missing so I imported that, but it has a date of 1981-12-00 while book has 1982 date, so if anyone knows for sure 1 date should be changed. EDIT: Probably the 1981 date is correct because they would publish a Dickens collection for the Christmas holiday season; just my feeling. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:32, 12 February 2022 (EST)
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The "exact" mode also ignores unlikely title type mismatches. For example, if one title record is SHORTFICTION and another one is NOVEL, they won't be flagged as potential duplicates. However, the "exact" mode currently flags NOVEL and CHAPBOOK titles with identical titles and authors as potential duplicates. I am thinking that this is likely more harmful than useful and would like to propose that we change the behavior of the "exact" mode to skip identical NOVEL/CHAPBOOK pairs. Ideas? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:35, 24 January 2024 (EST)
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:I agree. As it is currently, we could accidentally merge titles incorrectly. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:40, 24 January 2024 (EST)
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::I also agree.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 13:21, 25 January 2024 (EST)
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::: I use that one a lot especially when adding juvenile chapbooks to prolific authors (mainly Fixer's) - because of how Amazon has these, they rarely make it to addPubs and not having the duplicate finder highlight the previously entered novel (a lot of these are stored as novels and need conversion) makes it more likely not to see the other version on the page. So I would rather not lose it... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 18:43, 25 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Gray or Grey ==
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:::: Let me clarify that the Duplicate Finder's "similar" mode would continue to flag NOVEL, SHORTFICTION and CHAPBOOK titles as potential duplicates after the proposed change. Would it be sufficient for Fixer-originated use cases? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 21:41, 25 January 2024 (EST)
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::::: But we do not have a similar mode in the pubs/titles Duplicate finder. The one I use is the one that triggers when you click on "Check for Duplicate Titles" after a Pub/Title Edit. Which I believe is "exact". If I need to go to the author page every time to run a separate similar mode check, it will add steps. Plus in some of these authors, it will highlight a lot of things which is different from the current case where it is a quick check that finds usually a single match when it does. I can make it work - but it will add to the workflow. One option may be to allow the similar as an option on pub/title duplicate finder - keep the exact as a default but allow a similar to be run with a click how we do it on author page's find duplicates? A separate click which is right there will help.
 +
::::: And this is not just for Fixer usecases - I've needed it when moderating as well often enough in a similar usecase - we have chapbook/novel and a new(ish) member adds the same as the other.
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::::: If the proposal is to remove it from the 'Author' exact duplicate finder only with no change for the pub/title duplicate finder, then I am fine with removing it there. But the way the proposal reads, it sounds like we are not going to show it in the default mode in either :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 10:45, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?3264; I found a copy of this on Archive.org mistakenly added to the pulp mag section; I added a link in an edit, but 1 story, Everil Worrell's "Gray Killer", is spelled "Grey Killer". As with my months-ago question about the different spelling of Stephen King's "Gray Matter"/"Grey Matter", is it necessary for this to be a variant or is it just a British quirk and should be left alone? I checked the other (American) publications the story appeared in and it's "Gray" in all of them. EDIT: Also, some of Thomson's Not At Night books are under Selwyn and Blount, some are under Selwyn & Blount; probably a standard name for this publisher should be decided on and all books grouped under the chosen name. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:41, 12 February 2022 (EST)
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:::::: Thanks for the clarification. I forgot about the fact that the versions of the Duplicate Finder software used on Publication and Title pages do not support "similar" and "aggressive" modes. If memory serves, the reason was performance -- there can be thousands of titles with "similar" spellings where "similar" is defined as an 85% overlap, the current threshold value.
  
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== Cleanup reports temporarily unavailable ==
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:::::: It sounds like what we may need is a new Duplicate Finder mode. Something that would be the same as the "exact" mode except that it would also flag identical CHAPBOOK/NOVEL title pairs. It would be made available on all three Duplicate Finder pages.
  
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The cleanup reports are temporarily unavailable. The list of authors over 79 is so long now that the nightly process can't handle the volume and errors out. I plan to change the threshold to 85 tomorrow. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:50, 12 February 2022 (EST)
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:::::: If it sounds workable, I can look into what it would take to implement it. I suspect that it should be a fairly straightforward change, but I am not 100% sure. We'll also need to come up with an intuitive name for the new mode. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:11, 26 January 2024 (EST)
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::::::: That will work for me. And if you are going to do it, we may think about throwing an anthology/collection/omnibus format mix in the same mode (same usecase essentially - especially around juveniles and novellas previously added as novels). And even poem/shortfiction? Maybe simply pull all the format discrepancy matches out from Exact (requiring a format match in it) and move them to their own type of duplicate finder mode. That will also make it less likely for someone to merge by mistake based on the standard duplicate find.[[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 12:27, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
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: Let me clarify that the plan is to fix the software later today; the data will become available on Monday morning. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 09:58, 13 February 2022 (EST)
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:::::::: You could have "type" be an independent modifier applied to any of the three modes. Something like "Match identical types only", on by default. That would also be easy to extend to other criteria (e.g., language) in the future without having a cross product of mode choices. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 14:26, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
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:: The software has been fixed. We should see the new data in about 3 hours. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 22:34, 13 February 2022 (EST)
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::::::::: Good point! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:43, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
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== Series and Series number fields added to the Make Variant Title page ==
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(unindent) After experimenting on the development server and paying closer attention when working on the Clean Authors cleanup, I think I have a better appreciation for Annie's concerns. At this point clicking "Check for Duplicate Titles" post-approval is second nature for moderators and self-approvers. When a submission adds a NOVEL publication, it's very helpful to know that a CHAPBOOK pub with the same title already exists in the database, especially if the submitter is a robot. Requiring the approving moderator to click yet another link/button would mess with the workflow.
  
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Two new fields, Series and Series Number, have been added to the Make Variant Title page. Help will be updated shortly. If you come across any issues, please post your findings here. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:09, 13 February 2022 (EST)
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I suppose we could change the Duplicate Finder logic to ignore CHAPBOOK/NOVEL duplicates by default, but display a yellow warning -- and a link to the more relaxed version of the Duplicate Finder -- if they exist. I am not sure it would be ideal, though. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 11:34, 31 January 2024 (EST)
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: Awesome. Any chance to also add Web Pages? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:01, 15 February 2022 (EST)
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: As long as it is a link and not a need to go elsewhere or to go to the author level, that will work for me.
 +
: I'd also want to ask for the anthology/collection/omnibus and the poem/short fiction checks to be added to the chapbook/novel both for the yellow warning and the more relaxed one - both of these happen often enough to be annoying if we lose the ability to see them on the duplicate finder. Unless the plan is to leave these into the default one - in which case, we are fine. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:45, 31 January 2024 (EST)
  
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:: Sure, let me create an FR. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:26, 15 February 2022 (EST)
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:: After thinking some more about this issue, it occurs to me that there may be another way to approach this issue. Currently, most post-approval Web pages display links that let you view/edit the updated/added record or, for some submission types like Make Variant, multiple records. A few post-submission pages also link to the Duplicate Finder or other pages.
  
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::: {{FR|1487}}, "Add Web Pages to Make Variant pages", has been created. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:28, 15 February 2022 (EST)
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:: However, there is nothing preventing the post-approval software from quietly checking the status of the added/updated record(s) and displaying appropriate warnings. For example, the post-approval page for NewPubs could run the Duplicate Finder behind the scenes and then display a message like:
 +
::* The added publication record includes a title record with the same title and authors as another title record. Use the Duplicate Finder link above to see the details.
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:: This warning message would be easy to implement and moderators would no longer have to worry about forgetting to click "Duplicate Finder" after approving NewPub submissions. Does this sound useful?
 +
:: If we choose to add this warning message, we could still decide to tweak the Duplicate Finder logic later, but I think the message should be implemented first since it changes the workflow. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 16:53, 2 February 2024 (EST)
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::: That will be useful -- I am not sure how many false alerts will show up and how they will be treated (especially from the less experienced moderating users - usually the self-approvers) but other from that, any checks the software can do for me are always welcome. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 14:08, 6 February 2024 (EST)
  
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: And the 4 checkboxes (novelization, juvenile and so on) - if one is a self-approver, they can ensure they are set in the variant and they will carry up when making the variant; if the editor is not self-approving and the edits are approved our of order, a subsequent edit will be needed just to set these on the parent later. I know this one will be much trickier but the Web Pages one should be easy enough I think? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:01, 15 February 2022 (EST)
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:::: OK, {{FR|1592}}, "Warning after approving NewPub submissions which create potential duplicates", has been created. We'll see how useful it will be. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:48, 6 February 2024 (EST)
  
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:: Let me first make sure that we are talking about the same thing. The way the software works at the moment, the current values of the four title flags -- juvenile, novelization, non-genre, graphic format -- associated with a title are automatically copied to the newly created parent title. What you are requesting is the ability to set the new parent title's flag values ''explicitly'' at VT creation time, right? My only concern with that is that it could result in the two sets of flags getting out of sync if the submitter doesn't create another submission for the VT. I guess it shouldn't be much of an issue because any discrepancies would be caught by one of our cleanup reports. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:26, 15 February 2022 (EST)
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=== Duplicate Finder enhancements -- Outcome ===
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::: They are already getting out of sync if the creation of the variant is approved before the edit that sets them on the child.
 
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::: For self-approvers, that change is not needed - you set them on the variant, approve, then use Make Variant - otherwise you still need to go and edit the child later anyway. But for non self-approvers, they easily go out of sync when the approving is not done in the correct order.
 
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::: The big challenge here is that if you make them explicitly settable here, it stops the "copy from variant to parent on creation" logic which takes care of those for self-approvers. Thus me calling it trickier. We need a way to indicate when the ones coming from the child are to be used... maybe build the logic to account for both: "if checked, set it as checked; if unchecked, use what is in the variant" thus enabling both ways to get them set.  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:56, 15 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
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:::: Interesting points. I guess if one were to step back and consider the issue from a different perspective, one could argue that the 4 flags should only exist at the parent title level. After all, that's what we do with series and synopsis information. If memory serves, the reason why we originally allowed them to be set at the VT level was that we wanted to make them findable via Advanced Title Search. That said, I am not sure it's a big enough advantage  to outweigh the added complexity and potential for confusion. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:32, 15 February 2022 (EST)
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{{FR|1592}} has been implemented. After approving NewPub/AddPub/ClonePub/EditPub submissions, moderators and self-approvers will now see a yellow warning and a link to the Duplicate Finder if the created/affected publication record contains one (or more) title records which have the same title(s) and author(s) as other title records in the database. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:58, 8 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Robert (S.) Phillips ==
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== Moondust ==
  
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I added bio info here, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?19924, including the fact he died very recently. I think another item on ISFDB is by him but was mistakenly entered as a different author, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1034674, since it's mentioned here, https://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title/8630/circumstances-beyond-our-control, in Table of Contents and there's a mention of authors who were born in late 1930's-early 1940's like Robert S. He was well-known as a poet, as can be seen by the author image I added which is a book of poetry. EDIT: I had forgotten that I added a nytimes.com link to a 60's notice about his lady because it verified his middle name, but clicking on it now gets me nothing while the Wikipedia link next to it is fine. If anyone else can't open it then maybe there's something amiss with linking to the Times website, in which case I guess it'll have to go. --[[User:Username|Username]] 23:31, 13 February 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?22737; I added a whole bunch of edits for Rosemary Harris books and also found a PDF link for her early uncollected story "Hamlin" at Galactic Journey. Looking through their list of PDF's I noticed a Swann link and, thinking it would be a short story, I clicked it and it turned out to be the full original edition of his novel Moondust which has no copies at the usual places like Internet Archive or Luminist. I'm guessing there's more novels hiding in that list but for now I'll just ask if anyone owns the book and wouldn't mind transcribing the text on the last 2 pages and adding it to the record because those are missing in the PDF. I'm not sure what copyright rules are for a 50+-year-old book but I think a page or two would count as an excerpt and wouldn't bother anyone, right? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:43, 25 January 2024 (EST)
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:That can get complicated. Since this was first published in 1968 in the United States, and if it was published with a copyright notice, the copyright expires at the end of 2063 (meaning it becomes public domain on January 1, 2064). If it was published without a copyright notice, since it was published between 1964 and 1977, it is now in the public domain. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Public_domain#When_does_copyright_expire? here] for more details. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:27, 25 January 2024 (EST)
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:Looking at the PDF copy from the link you submitted, the copyright notice is very clear on the back of the title page. This means the copyright doesn't expire until 2064, so we shouldn't be linking to a pirated PDF copy. I rejected the link addition. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:30, 25 January 2024 (EST)
 +
::So does that mean that all the 330 or so Luminist.org PDF's currently linked on ISFDB are pirated, too? Because I don't think most of those are public domain; I would know because I'm the one who added most of the links. Has any mod in the history of this site ever gotten a request from anyone to remove a Luminist PDF? I'd be curious to know. When someone pirates something and uploads it, they love to add their name, fake as it may be, to the upload, similar to how computer game crackers decades ago loved to add their names to the crack, usually with some animation and music (which were sometimes better than those in the game itself); believe me, I could easily add hundreds of Internet Archive links to rare books right now except for the fact that the uploaders converted them to crap e-editions with removed page numbers. I don't see anything like that in Moondust so it's likely someone's personal copy they converted to a PDF; it's clearly the original paperback with page numbers and a bookstore sticker on the cover and everything. Since Swann died in 1976 and the last reprint as far as ISFDB (and WorldCat) say was in 1977 I doubt anyone would care if a PDF was linked to here; any serious collector would want a physical copy. My suggestion would be to un-reject it. Barring that, I'll just go ahead and make a note with the address of the PDF but not hot-linked so people know where it is but actually have to paste the URL into the address bar themselves in order to get it. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 17:47, 25 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:::This guy, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?286234, runs the site. Looks legit to me; he even published a magazine of the same title. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:08, 25 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Messing With the Demon ==
+
:::: The question about the status of Luminist-hosted PDF files is an interesting one. I should first note that I became aware of the Luminist Web site back in 2010 when we were given permission to link to Luminist-hosted images. I was under the impression that the files that they host were similar to [https://www.gutenberg.org/help/copyright.html Gutenberg-hosted "copyright-cleared" files], which is why I have been approving their addition for the last few years.
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5223292; I just wrote one of the mods asking why he uploads to the Wiki old inferior covers after I add better covers to books he PV'd, and now I find this submission, which sat partially unaccepted for days because the same mod mentioned above has something against using full covers even if the art is continued on the back like this one, and today another mod finally accepted it, but rewrote my note about price and cover artist in order to add a few "the" words. I feel like I've mentioned this before, but altering my notes annoys me because 1 way I know when I've come across something I've previously worked on, which happens very often since I've done 20,000+ edits, is I write in a specific way so I know which notes were by me. Please stop doing this. Also, I'm no language expert, but is it correct that the transliterated title doesn't have the symbol over the first E in Angelique? --[[User:Username|Username]] 09:38, 14 February 2022 (EST)
+
::::However, reading the copyright statement on the [http://www.luminist.org/archives/ main Luminist page]:
 +
::::* This collection may contain copyrighted material which has not been specifically authorized for our use. The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) provides for making “fair use” copies of copyrighted materials under certain conditions, including that that the reproduction is not to be used commercially or “for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research.” By accessing files linked to this site you are agreeing to abide by these restrictions. If you do not agree, do not download. If any copyright owner objects to our inclusion of their material on this web site, please do not harass our hosting providers; just contact us with the pertinent information. We will remove contested content promptly upon receipt of legitimate requests. Readers who wish to obtain a permanent copy of any item are encouraged to acquire one from a bookseller of their choice. Readers may contact us for assistance in locating copies for purchase.
 +
:::: I see that they expect their users to download PDF files for "private study, scholarship, or research" purposes and, apparently, not for permanent use. This relies on an interpretation of the [https://copyright.columbia.edu/basics/fair-use.html "fair use" doctrine] which seems a bit too stretchy to me, but I am not an expert in the field. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:09, 25 January 2024 (EST)
 +
:::::OK, sounds good to me, "private study" clearly can mean reading the book and since they're being linked at ISFDB that covers the scholarship/research part. Also, what I took to be a Galactic Journey magazine is just a few random pages from the webzine with a couple of essay links, 1 of which is movie-related and probably doesn't qualify, but there's some Hugo Award nomination so I guess they count; the first entry is totally blank and was actually entered by user "galacticjourney" himself with mods questioning on his page why he entered it since it's a webzine. The site is still running currently and has hundreds of essays, many of which would be suitable for entry here, I'm sure. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:25, 25 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Aytoun or Maginn ==
+
:::::: Let me clarify what I meant by "a bit too stretchy". The part of the Copyright Law that they cite -- "for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research" -- doesn't come from the "fair use" clause ([https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 Section 107 of the Copyright Act].) Instead it comes from [https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#108 Section 108, "Reproduction by libraries and archives"]. Section 108 is a lengthy section with a set of provisions that are completely different from the "fair use" provisions in Section 107. It's odd that the Luminist Web site cites Section 108 ("libraries and archives") language to support what they state is a Section 107 ("fair use") exception.
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?891416; http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1140889; Supernatural Index under Aytoun's name says for "The Man in the Bell": "error , should be William Maginn". There's a few other mentions of this online; Peter Haining could be blamed as usual except for the fact that the Aytoun credit also is in a 1935 book. I moved the note about Blackwood's over to Maginn's ISFDB page for this story, but some sort of variant mentioning error may be necessary. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:26, 14 February 2022 (EST)
+
:::::: I should add that both Section 107 and Section 108 lawsuits can get complex and technical as we saw during [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachette_v._Internet_Archive Hachette v. Internet Archive] in 2020-2023. My knowledge of these topics is very limited, but hopefully other editors may have more in-depth knowledge and/or relevant experience in this field. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 21:38, 25 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Light and Twilight ==
+
::::::: I have started a [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Rules_and_standards_discussions#Linking_to_third_party_Web_pages_--_defining_.22legally_posted.22 Rules and Standards discussion] to see if we can come up with unambiguous rules for linking to third party-hosted texts. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 20:50, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?786877; I added/fixed a bunch of stuff for this old book; the cover image I replaced the fake Amazon one with got a yellow "already on file" warning; it's on ISFDB for the Laurel reprint, but since that's a facsimile technically it's the cover of the original. If it's OK, let it stand; if not, accept my edit and then I will remove the cover credit afterwards. Just don't reject it and make me do the edit over again. --[[User:Username|Username]] 00:38, 15 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Reactor?!? ==
  
−
: Edit was approved and I removed the wrong cover. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:42, 19 February 2022 (EST)
+
I was at my awful local public library printing out various articles and short stories for free which is the only positive thing about libraries these days and after my hour was up I realized I forgot to check Tor.com to see if they published any new fiction (horror only, please, no SF or fantasy) so I checked when I got home and got a scary-looking page which made me think a computer virus had finally taken hold of my laptop after not having one for many years but it turns out that Tor apparently has re-named themselves Reactor. Is anyone else aware of this? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 17:08, 26 January 2024 (EST)
 +
: Yes, they announced it a few weeks ago. New site, new name (to differentiate them from the Tor.com publisher), same team, same contents. All the old links to their old site should be forwarding cleanly to the new one. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 17:30, 26 January 2024 (EST)
 +
: And the [https://reactormag.com/tor-com-to-become-reactor-debut-new-site-on-january-23rd/ announcement] and [https://reactormag.com/answering-your-questions-about-tor-coms-change-to-reactor/ Q&A] about it. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 17:31, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
== 3 cleanup reports for Audible publications ==
+
:: I suspect that the part of the FAQ that is most likely to affect us is this:
 +
::* SFF literature is still the heart of what we do, and that’s our priority. We’ll just also be open to related subjects of interest, from nonfic to romantasy, pirates to gardening, and so on.
 +
:: So it looks like they will have more non-genre content going forward, but they expect to remain primarily SF-oriented for the foreseeable future. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:23, 26 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
The following 3 cleanup reports have been deployed:
+
== Chinese Godzilla? ==
  
−
* Pubs without an ISBN and with an Audible ASIN which is an ISBN-10
+
https://archive.org/search?query=%E6%80%AA%E7%8D%A3%E3%82%B4%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A9&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22; If anyone knows what this is about and decides it warrants entering, thanks. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:18, 29 January 2024 (EST)
−
* Digital audio download pubs with a regular ASIN and no Audible ASIN
 
−
* Pubs with an Audible ASIN and a non-Audible format
 
  
−
The data will become available tomorrow morning. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:10, 15 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Magic German Cats ==
  
−
== Greenhouse ==
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?33710; There was a 1999 German edition under a new title, https://archive.org/details/katmagie13katten0000unse, in case anyone fluent wants to enter that. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:02, 30 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?17367; I just added OL ID to this; the cover has the extra verbiage and so does the title page, but is that really supposed to be part of the title or is it just a descriptive blurb since it appears above the title? Regular title on ISFDB doesn't have it but book itself does. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:22, 15 February 2022 (EST)
+
== ZOLTAR ==
−
:If it's on the title page, it's probably part of the title. Does the copyright page show a Library of Congress catalog information section? That will usually have the correct title. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:05, 16 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
:: The question is why the subtitle is included in the book's record but not the regular titles record; it should be either both or neither. Since the PV informed me months ago that he's no longer approving edits by me because I had the nerve to disagree with him about some of my edits, and since he hardly does any edits these days, anyway, you can try to find him and ask him about it, or confab with the other mods about whether it should really be part of the title or not. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:32, 16 February 2022 (EST)
+
[https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?USE_1=pub_title&O_1=exact&TERM_1=&C=AND&USE_2=pub_verifier&O_2=exact&TERM_2=Zoltar&USE_3=pub_title&O_3=exact&TERM_3=&USE_4=pub_title&O_4=exact&TERM_4=&USE_5=pub_title&O_5=exact&TERM_5=&USE_6=pub_title&O_6=exact&TERM_6=&USE_7=pub_title&O_7=exact&TERM_7=&USE_8=pub_title&O_8=exact&TERM_8=&USE_9=pub_title&O_9=exact&TERM_9=&USE_10=pub_title&O_10=exact&TERM_10=&ORDERBY=pub_year&ACTION=query&START=0&TYPE=Publication]; Polish primary verifier seemed to be very active in 2012 and then nothing, they left a lot of their 300+ PV unfinished with missing info, mentioning this in case anyone fluent in Polish wants to follow up on any of them and add or fix anything. I thought of this before but remembered it today after finding a photo for Jerzy Sosnowski on FantLab and an archived copy of the anthology PL +50 which his story on ISFDB appears in. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:45, 30 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Gadino ==
+
== verification email  ==
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=gadino&type=Name; Same person here. I added missing cover to Enchantress and then searched for artist's name; online info says he's a very famous poster artist and did covers for many gay and straight romance novels. I have a feeling some of his cover credits are missing on ISFDB; anyway, 1 name should probably be made a variant of the other, although I can't find any personal info on him to add. --[[User:Username|Username]] 08:48, 16 February 2022 (EST)
+
I have tried several times to elicit a verification email but nothing has arrived. I've checked junk & trash as well. Is this simply not working? {{unsigned|Starman99}}
−
:I don't think they are the same person. [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?27242 Gadino] was active 40-50 years ago, and [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?257980 Victor Gadino] has only relatively recently started working in the field. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:11, 16 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
:: https://www.artrenewal.org/14thARCSalon/Home/Artist/15890; I think they're the same person. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:27, 16 February 2022 (EST)
+
: I am afraid this is a common occurrence, which we [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:FAQ#What_if_I_don.27t_receive_the_confirmation_email.3F discuss in the ISFDB FAQ]:
−
:::Well, unless we're sure, we shouldn't be linking them. All the work I've seen by Victor Gadino is nothing at all like the work by Gadino as far as style goes. Maybe they are the same person, but I haven't seen anything other than having the same surname which would lead me to believe they are the same person. That's not enough, at least for me. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:17, 21 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
== 1943 or 1951 ==
+
:* Different email servers have different automated rules which may block email coming from certain Web sites, which makes it hard to tell what's preventing ISFDB confirmation email from being delivered to your mailbox.
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45012; I imported 2 stories into Suspense; shouldn't this retitling be dated 1951-00-00? --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:14, 16 February 2022 (EST)
+
:* Note, however, that confirmation emails are optional as far as ISFDB is concerned. As long as you can log in, you have full access to all ISFDB features including Advanced Search, display preferences, submission creation etc.
  
−
== Cleanup menu improvements ==
+
: Since you were able to post the message above, you should be all set :-) [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:11, 30 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
The main cleanup menu had two "Translations" sections; they have been merged. In addition, the names of the sections with outstanding cleanup reports are now displayed at the top of the Web page along with the count of active reports within the section; you can click them to jump to the section of your choice. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:56, 16 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Ace Dates ==
  
−
== My Pending Submissions -- self-approver enhancement ==
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5872024; Can someone on the long list of editors find out where someone got month from? Whoever entered many of these old PB long ago was very random about noting where they got the month, but I remember it was a checklist or something so that's likely where this one came from, too. I thought it would be obvious why I added the month since it's there throughout the contents but I guess not. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:27, 30 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
"My Pending Submissions" has been modified. When viewing a pending submission, self-approvers can now go to the "Approve/Reject" page for the submission. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 09:29, 17 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Berthon ==
  
−
== Matilda ==
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=theodore+le&type=Name; Space in first entry separates same essay from its appearances elsewhere; no essay title page I can find but I did see a contents page of Frankenstein File that says, um, Ted Le Berthon, https://www.ebay.com/itm/334647759422. So, if anyone can verify, a merge or variant will be needed. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 00:08, 31 January 2024 (EST)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?71266; I knew that publisher was fishy; this page, https://www.gallimard.fr/Catalogue/GALLIMARD-JEUNESSE/Folio-Junior/Folio-Junior/Matilda2, suggests it's Gallimard, but it could also be Folio Junior and there's no mention of "Contemporary French Fiction", so I leave it to French readers who may know more about exact details re: who the publisher is and what the publication series is. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:31, 17 February 2022 (EST)
+
== I'm looking for a book title ==
  
−
:Thanks for finding this. The trustworthy BNF (French National Bibliography) has the publisher as Gallimard Jeunesse, which I'll insert. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 10:18, 18 February 2022 (EST)
+
Hello everyone,
 +
I'm looking for a book title. I read the book years ago probably in the 80s. A quick summary the world is divided by a massive mountain range. I think that the protagonist must climb the mountain range in order to become the ruler. They climb the mountain only to find a deep valley on the other side with an even higher mountain range behind it. The protagonist ultimately climbs the second mountain range where they find another land on the far side with another intelligent species. This has been driving me batty and I would appreciate it if anyone knows what this books title is and who wrote it. Thank you. {{Unsigned2|19:21, February 1, 2024‎| Firefighterbgrg }}
 +
:If no one here is able to help you, we have a [[ISFDB:FAQ#I need help finding a book|section in our FAQ]] that gives several places where you can ask for help finding the book. Good luck! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:15, 2 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
:: The interior art was MATLIDA, so I removed it and then imported the right art, but afterwards got 2 yellow warnings for unstable cover image and language mismatch on the art. So you may want to replace/fix those. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:40, 18 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Darrah Chavey ==
  
−
== MZB's 'Falcons of Narabedla' ==
+
I learn via [https://news.ansible.uk/a439.html Ansible] today that Darrah Chavey left this mortal coil on 6 January. He was always a learned and consistent editor to work alongside at the ISFDB... Happy trails Darrah, Rest In Peace. :( [[User:PeteYoung|PeteYoung]] ([[User talk:PeteYoung|talk]]) 10:39, 2 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
Hi! I have done a word count estimate for [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?640300 this publication] and found that for the fiction it lies somewhere between 32,000 and 35,000, which does make it a novella. I'll wait for the weekend to pass and change this and the title accordingly if there's no objection. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 10:14, 18 February 2022 (EST)
+
: Yes, indeed. There was a brief [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal#Darrah_Chavey.27s_Passing Community Portal discussion on 2024-01-11] and Darrah's database record was updated. RIP. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:01, 2 February 2024 (EST)
−
:There is a convention that we treat works published in Ace Doubles as novels regardless of length.  See the last sentence under "NOVEL" [[Template:TitleFields:TitleType|here]].  However, it also uses "typically". --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 12:06, 18 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
::I can not agree with this change. I did a rough wordcount for both Ace double editions, and both come to just above or below 40.000 words. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 16:04, 20 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
== Inscrutable ==
+
== Gardner F. Fox's text story in "Strange Adventures" ==
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubs_not_in_series.cgi?56019; I fixed a minor error for David Shobin's The Center (someone spelled "cover" as "covere") and saw there was a Japanese edition; looking at the list linked above, I'm just curious how these are entered. Stephen King's Misery title is spelled here only in Japanese even though the English title is on the cover, but King's IT is spelled in English and Japanese here, with the Japanese symbol being different between the 2 editions; also, King's name isn't on the cover for Misery but it is for IT, and yet his name is spelled in Japanese for both books here. The Center's title is in Japanese but Shobin's name is in English, even though both title and name are spelled in English on the cover. World War Z's title is in English and its author in Japanese even though both are in English on the cover. Asking on the very slim chance I ever try to enter a Japanese-language book. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:33, 18 February 2022 (EST)
+
Earlier today a Usenet poster pointed out that {{A|Gardner F. Fox}} published "The Magic Maker of Rann", a text story, in the comic ''Strange Adventures'' #226. The story is lavishly illustrated, but the text works just fine even if you were to reprint it without illustrations, which is how we determine whether a story is "graphic".
  
−
== Bad Red ==
+
The whole thing is available [https://thedorkreview.blogspot.com/2012/01/adam-stranges-magic-maker-of-rann.html online], illustrations included. Should we treat ''Strange Adventures'' as a non-genre periodical and list this story? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 16:32, 2 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?882813; Did someone create a new thing recently where if ISBN is bad it says so on record in red? Looks pretty cool. EDIT: Oh, it's gone now and mod fixed ISBN problem and added notes about it; red message must be for mods' eyes only. I just peeked behind the curtain. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:35, 19 February 2022 (EST)
+
:I've entered a number of Eando Binder stories from the {{Series|Lieutenant Jon Jarl of the Space Patrol}} series that originally appeared in {{Series|Captain Marvel Adventures}} comic, and I entered them in exactly the manner you suggest. I believe some of these stories have been reprinted as text alone, so I felt I was on pretty safe ground. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 16:43, 2 February 2024 (EST)
−
:The red warning has been present for quite awhile and is visible to everyone. There is also a cleanup report that shows these and people will fix them based on that also. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 14:47, 19 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
== Application for self-approval status, Holmesd ==
+
== Lost Ark Storybook ==
  
−
As my peers do not seem have upset the apple-cart, the system is still functioning, and the backlog of edits is still large (unknown if it includes self-editors or not), I will assume that self-approval is still something that moderators might be willing to grant. That said, I hereby apply for such status knowing that there is no documentation for what that entails, or whether it can be reversed. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 15:00, 19 February 2022 (EST)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5880702; ISBN belongs to Scholastic edition judging by a back cover I saw online. There's a later (3rd) trade printing on Archive.org with trade and library ISBN on the copyright page so either this record should be made Scholastic or a new record created for Random House edition(s). I've been adding dozens of Wikipedia links to novelizations recently and I've come across some other issues like this (only one I can remember is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade by Anne Digby which has pub. series as Hippo Books but that actually belongs to the UK edition which I made a new record for) so when these are approved a check and some fixing/adding is probably needed for at least a few of them. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:50, 3 February 2024 (EST)
−
: Support (as I had already indicated when I nudged you to apply for it) :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:12, 19 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Support --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 19:52, 19 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Support[[User:Kraang|Kraang]] 20:34, 19 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:Support. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 21:04, 19 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Support, of course. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 00:23, 20 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Support. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 06:57, 20 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Support. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 16:00, 20 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Support. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:18, 21 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
=== Outcome ===
+
== Rise of the Silver Surfer ==
  
−
Success. The self-approver flag has been set on the account. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 11:48, 24 February 2022 (EST)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?346021; I made an edit fixing typo "udpated" to "updated", surprisingly the only such error on all of ISFDB, and realized that this edition was likely never published with AbeBooks having a weird "cover to be unveiled" photo. So unless someone can find evidence of a copy I think this should get the unpublished date. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:30, 3 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Word Count ==
+
== Parnassus Wizard of Earthsea ==
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1588237; Here's something I found that might be of interest. A Christian SF magazine, GateWay S-F, published 5 issues (for some reason #4 was never entered here even though info is on the usual sites) about 20 years ago. They actually had a website which is missing the archive of #1's contents but has #2 (there's also a 3rd issue but its contents don't match the print version of #3 at all); there are a few wrinkles like 2 of the stories being in a different order and 1 story online actually being from #1 (whether it's really from #1 or was actually in #2 is a good question). However, the interesting thing is while most of the (mostly lame) stories are very short, the story by Joe Zeff is very long. I did an edit changing it from a short story to a novelette, but then thought mod might ask how I know how long it really is and whether it qualifies. I found a page called wordcount.com and entered the URL, https://web.archive.org/web/20010303180722/http://www.gateway-sf-magazine.com:80/native.html, and got this result: 7,638 Words 46,966 Characters 38,368 Characters without space 11,620 Syllables 552 Sentences 712 Paragraphs. So does it qualify, and is this site known here or did I discover something? EDIT: Wow, I just found the ISFDB page re: story lengths, http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Template:TitleFields:Length, and it says 7,500 words is the low # for a novelette, so I was right, barely; also, I did a Google search for ISFDB and wordcount.com and got no hits, so I may have found something here. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:15, 19 February 2022 (EST)
+
https://archive.org/details/wizardofearthsea00ursu; I added a link to a Parnassus edition based on someone's extensive notes here (no number line or smudge on title page) but there are some editions of this book only linked from Open Library including the one above which has a price much higher than any other book from the publisher on ISFDB but copyright page has same info as 1969 2nd printing so if anyone knows a way to determine the date a new edition can be added. There's an ancient ISFDB bibliography from 2006 by Ahasuerus, https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Author:Ursula_K._Le_Guin, which could probably use some updating unless it's been updated somewhere else. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 20:08, 4 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
: I've been told that some people use MS Word to figure out story lengths; the site I mentioned above, wordcount.com, does the same thing almost instantly and is about as basic a page as you can get, unlike other word counting sites that have ads/blogs/giant pictures on the screen, and doesn't force you to enter the Gates of the evil Microsoft Empire. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:17, 25 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Pranks ==
  
−
== Application for self-approval status: ErsatzCulture ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?17626; I've made edits for all editions before, original 1983 Amazon cover seems to have disappeared leading to a broken image so I replaced it, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5882029, then I replaced OL/Archive cover which is too dark with an Amazon cover, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5882020, that isn't great but is brighter and still retains the sparkly stuff on the title that Leisure used to attract people to buy their books which then led to disappointment when the buyers realized the novels themselves were usually crap, the latest edition is fine as is, so now I think the 1983 edition with the wrong price and ISBN should be deleted and the image uploaded by Chris J. should be removed from the Wiki since it seems to be the badly creased cover that's still on Amazon with unnecessary back cover included. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:17, 5 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
It was suggested to me a few weeks ago that I might consider applying for self-approval privileges.  My initial response was to be somewhat reluctant, but given that a large proportion of my edits are mundane AddPubs of stuff Fixer missed (or can no longer get from Amazon UK's API), or adding links to author records, perhaps it's not a good use of the moderators' time to plough through that stuff?  I promise not abuse this privilege should it be grant, or conversely to be offended should [https://gifer.com/en/Ojp the judgement go against me] ;-) [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 16:21, 20 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Felix Kelly ==
−
: Support. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:53, 20 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Support --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 17:21, 20 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Support [[User:Kraang|Kraang]] 22:42, 20 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Support Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 01:51, 21 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Support. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 09:02, 21 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Support --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 09:22, 21 February 2022 (EST)
 
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: Support. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:18, 21 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Support. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 13:53, 21 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:Support.--[[User:Chris J|Chris J]] 15:29, 21 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
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=== Outcome ===
+
I entered new records for Faber anthologies Best Murder Stories and Best Murder Stories 2 which are mostly genre or by genre authors; I also looked at Best Tales of Terror, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?4213, and even though I know I've seen that cover many times I never noticed until seeing it full-sized on FantLab that there's a very clear signature lower right, FELIX KELLY. I entered that in an edit but the problem is that the record for him, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?255975, might be the same artist who did the 1956 art but can't be the guy from 1879. So there may be 2 Felix Kellys in case anyone can find out more and separate them into 2 records; it's also possible that the 1956 art was not new but taken from something drawn by the older Kelly. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:09, 6 February 2024 (EST)
 +
:Also added Margaret Wolpe as cover artist for Best Tales of Terror 2; no signature I can see but FantLab credits her + there's a copy on Dalby's site whose front flap says she did "jacket design" and the art does look like many of her other Faber covers. Also greatly updated her record with lots of bio info and noted she was married to Berthold, also an artist, and updated his record as well. Dalby's copy has a pounds price sticker covering another pound price so I'm getting the impression Faber reprinted their anthologies many times with no way to tell except the prices kept getting higher; lots of printings are probably missing so if anyone has any not on ISFDB it would be good to enter them. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:03, 6 February 2024 (EST)
  
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Success. The self-approver flag has been set on the account. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:57, 25 February 2022 (EST)
+
== The Adventure of the Peerless Peer ==
  
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== Kindle Vella ASINs ==
+
Are there any objections to converting [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?11929 this] to a novella? The recent ebook reprint is marked as 27k words by Kobo USA and looking at the page numbers and some of the other editions, it does feel too small to be a novel. Thanks! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 17:41, 6 February 2024 (EST)
  
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So it looks like each "episode" of a story on Kindle Vella has a different ASIN. The format of the URLs is https://www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/episode/B09P51SY31, with the ASIN at the end changing for each separate episode. Can we add a "Kindle Vella ASIN" to the External IDs list so we can enter these? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:26, 21 February 2022 (EST)
+
: It's definitely a novella. The Titan Books edition (2011) is well over 200 pages and looks like a bona fide novel, but its apparent length is due to the addition of a very long promotional excerpt from {{A|Kim Newman}}'s ''Moriarty: The Hound of the D'Urbervilles''. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:16, 7 February 2024 (EST)
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: Are those only in the US Kindle store or are they also on the internationals and if they are there for the internationals, is it the same ASIN across stores (as happens often for ebooks - with the UK/US exception for some publishers) or different (as with audiobooks - which have separate ID in each store) - aka do we need an ID that works like the ASIN (with 16 links) or like Audible ASIN (pointing only to Amazon.com in this case)? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:46, 25 February 2022 (EST)
 
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:: If I click on the above amazon.com link from the UK, I (eventually) get a fairly empty page with "Kindle Vella stories are available for US customers on Amazon.com."  If I edit the URL to be .co.uk rather than .com, I get a 404-ish "we couldn't find that page" error.
 
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:: I can try doing a search on Amazon UK if someone tells me what text string to try... [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 18:19, 25 February 2022 (EST)
 
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::: I suspected so. Search to see if "My Wife Is a Minotaur, but I Don't Have Time for That Now. I'm Late to Work!!" pops up somewhere as a title? Also the main page is [https://www.amazon.com/kindle-vella here] - and that does not work in either of the other Amazons (thus the original question). And then there is [https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/GR2L4AHPMQ44HNQ7 this] (on the author side of Vella): "With Kindle Vella, U.S. based authors can publish serialized stories, one short episode at a time" and " Kindle Vella publishing is currently available to publishers who reside in the U.S. to publish stories in English." and a few other sites report that both readers and writers need to be in the US. Which means that we need a simple ID (for now) and not the ASIN formatted one. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:47, 25 February 2022 (EST)
 
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:::: I utterly failed to get anything back in search on Amazon UK, trying several variants of that string, different departments in the dropdown etc.
 
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:::: I was able to see the main Vella page (on amazon.com), with various products listed.  If I click on one of them, I get a /story/ page (e.g. [https://www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/story/B09931CWVP], which has some details, but also the "Kindle Vella stories are available for US customers on Amazon.com." warning at the top of the page.  Clicking on the "Read episode 1" link gets the same empty page as I first mentioned above. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 19:33, 25 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
(unindent) Sorry, folks, I missed this discussion back in February :-(
+
== Termush - convert to novella ==
  
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I guess the first question that we need to answer is whether Vella-hosted Web serials are eligible for inclusion based on [[ISFDB:Policy]]. Here is a list of currently included electronic publication types:
+
Another recent reprint shows [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1443797 this one] as 25k words in English (Kobo USA count) which will leave it well short of 40K in its original Danish as well. Any objections to converting this to a novella? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 18:27, 6 February 2024 (EST)
  
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# e-books with a unique identifier such as an ISBN, ASIN, EAN, or catalog number
+
== John Stanley ==
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# downloadable e-zines
 
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# Internet-based publications which are downloadable as electronic files in any number of ebook formats (ePub, Mobi, PDF, etc).
 
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# Speculative ''fiction'' webzines, which are defined as online periodicals with distinct issues (note: online periodicals without distinct issues are not considered webzines)
 
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# Special speculative ''fiction'' issues of non-genre webzines
 
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# One time speculative ''fiction'' anthologies published on the Web
 
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# Online publications available exclusively as a Web page, but only if:
 
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## published by a market which makes the author eligible for SFWA membership (listed [https://www.sfwa.org/about/join-us/sfwa-membership-requirements/#pro here]), OR
 
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## shortlisted for a major award
 
  
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Here is how Vella serials fare:
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5883789; See my note about artist, that Little Lulu credit in the original Stanley record belongs with I's record because, as my note in the original says, he was born in '39 or '40 so he would only have been 9 or 10 if he did that art which is unlikely; this is the right Stanley, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stanley_(cartoonist). The Melvin Monster credits belong with I, too. I have to assume the Fengriffen Stanley is not the same as I because it's a UK edition and he's American plus it's a photograph, not drawn. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 00:10, 7 February 2024 (EST)
  
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# They have unique identifiers, but are they really e-books?
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== Doolin ==
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# N/A
 
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# Are Vella serial installments downloadable or are they only available in your browser or via the Kindle app?
 
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# N/A
 
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# N/A
 
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# N/A
 
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# Apparently N/A:
 
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## Amazon is not listed as an eligible market by SFWA
 
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## AFAIK, none of them are shortlisted for major awards so far
 
  
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[[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:20, 8 March 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?431777; Late PV entered James Doolin based on signature but there is none, FantLab photo has initials JPD, it's actually Joseph Doolin, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?27894, and he has an entry for the same art, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1590968. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:48, 7 February 2024 (EST)
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: Hm. That's a good question. It is "the web at www.amazon.com/kindle-vella and in the Kindle app" only (for now) from what I can see. So I suspect that will mean that they are closer to web serials than actual ebooks - even though being available on the kindle app kinda makes them a bit of a hybrid. Still probably not eligible under the current definition... We probably need to open that definition a bit more again at some point if we want to follow the publishing world... but that is another conversation. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:27, 8 March 2022 (EST)
 
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::I don't know. Each installment has a unique ASIN, and (like any other Kindle release), there are ways to get the file so you can view it using any viewer, not just the Kindle app. It seems to me that if they meet one of the criteria, they should be in. They are ebooks as you have to download them to your device. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:02, 8 March 2022 (EST)
 
  
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::: The fact that they have ASINs -- even though specialized ASINs -- is an argument in favor of their inclusion. However, they appear to be only available via the Kindle app. Regular e-books can be downloaded as mobi/azw3/epub/pdf/etc files. Are they still e-books if they can't be downloaded as files? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:55, 9 March 2022 (EST)
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== Uncorrected Proofs ==
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:::: Not all ebooks can be downloaded in different formats but they can be downloaded in at least 1 format -- which is enough. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:03, 9 March 2022 (EST)
 
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::: How can you get the file from Amazon (not with a third party tools and so on - or any online story anywhere is eligible - I have a browser plugin that can sent to my kindle creating an ebook that way). I cannot find any way to actually download the mobi/azw/azx file from Amazon? If we can download the file, I'd call them ebooks indeed. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:03, 9 March 2022 (EST)
 
  
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:::: With regular e-books that you purchase on Amazon, you go to "Manage Your Content and Devices", then "Digital Content", then "Books". When the desired book is displayed in the list, click "More Actions" on the right. In the pop-up list select "Download & transfer via USB" and click "Download". This will download the book as an azw3 file.
+
I'm holding [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5870146 this submission] to update {{P|29328|this record}}.  I noticed that the record states that it was unpublished (8888-00-00), yet there appears to be a cover that was just added.  More importantly it also describes this as an "uncorrected proof" and I had thought that proofs were outside of our [[ISFDB:Policy#Contents/Project Scope Policy|scope]]. The policy specifically excludes Advance Reading Copies unless available for sale to the public.  Do uncorrected proofs differ from ARCs in terms of determining scope?  This seems straightforward to me and I believe the publication should be deleted.  If others disagree and this requires a full discussion, we can move this the the Rules and Standards board.  Thoughts?  Thanks. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 10:59, 7 February 2024 (EST)
 +
: I read the rules the same way you do - ARCs and uncorrected proofs are out. However, we do keep records of unpublished but announced books (these are in scope under the <i>announced but never published (entered as "unpublished")</i> part of ROA) so I would not delete this one as it is under that category. So ARC/uncorrected proof of a book that comes out will not be eligible but if the book never makes it out, adding the notes about it into the 8888 book are fine I think. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:22, 7 February 2024 (EST)
  
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:::: When you follow the same steps for a Vella serial, you get to the last step, but the "Download" button is grayed out. Instead you get a "You do not have any compatible devices registered for this content. Buy a Kindle or get the free Kindle reading app." I haven't been able to find a way around it. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:49, 9 March 2022 (EST)
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:: Comparing this publication record with [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3379 other, published, editions of the book], I note that it has a different ISBN in addition to a different publisher name. I typically enter announced-then-canceled ISBNs as 8888-00-00 publication records under the rule referenced by Annie. Their presence in our database helps answer a common question: "Whatever happened to this apparent first edition? Why can't I find any copies for sale?" We all know how obsessed collectors can get when it comes to first editions and our database is frequently the only readily accessible place that explains what happened to a "disappeared" ISBN. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 11:51, 7 February 2024 (EST)
 +
:::I've no argument with a publication record for an announced, but unpublished book.  However, an unpublished book and an uncorrected proof are two different things. The notes on this record confuse the issue as to what the record represents.  The addition of a cover scan and artist further confuses things.  How are we able to display a cover of a book that was never published?  I would suggest that the notes be reworked to indicate that a proof was done as evidence of the planned publication.  We could replace the first two sentences with "The Bluejay Books imprint was dissolved late in 1986 just after an uncorrected proof for this planned edition was printed in September of that year." I would also recommend deleting the cover of the proof and rejecting the addition of an artist.  I do worry that if we were to make an exception and allow a record specifically for an uncorrected proof when the book is never published, it would encourage the addition of other proofs and ARCs especially by those editors who surmise rules by examples of what is already in the database. If others think this should be a valid exception to allow records for proofs, then we should document it in the scope page as is done with ARCs offered for sale. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 19:00, 7 February 2024 (EST)
 +
:::: That sounds like a plan and the proposed change in the notes sounds fine to me - that will make it clear that the record is here because the book was announced and not because it had an ARC/uncorrected proofs done. I am at two minds about the cover - if it was announced with the book, recording it makes sense as it may help trace it to an artist later on and as it is part of the record after all. But other from that - I agree that we need to be careful not to confuse ARCs and unpublished books per se - although when a publication fails through often varies so there are ARCs out there for books that do not make it - that one being an example. Maybe all we need is to strengthen the language to specify that the exclusion is for books that end up being published - thus allowing the usecase we have here without a concern. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 19:06, 7 February 2024 (EST)
  
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:::::That's probably due to Vella still being in beta. I haven't been able to figure out how to do it, either. I'll keep trying different ways. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:05, 9 March 2022 (EST)
+
:::::I agree that the pub record should stay because it falls under "announced but never published" and agree with Ron that the problem with it as it stands is that the pub note gives the impression that the record has been created for the proof, not the unpublished book. Ron's tweak to the pub note solves this problem.
 +
:::::Further notes and suggestions:
 +
:::::1) I agree that mentioning the proof in the pub note is a good idea. It is evidence that the book was announced.
 +
:::::2) I definitely think the cover image should be deleted. It should either be omitted or of the final cover. The latter assumes the publisher reached that stage and that we could find the image. All very unlikely. The cover image is more than just the artwork; it's also the colouring, wording, layout and typography and those aspects of the proof cover clearly wouldn't reflect the final version.
 +
:::::3) I would delete the OCLC/WorldCat External ID and just mention it in the pub note because it refers specifically to the uncorrected proof and not the unpublished final work.
 +
:::::4) I'm ambivalent about importing the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?950860 coverart record]. It's clear from the cover of the proof that Ron Walotsky was the intended artist so this falls under "announced but never published" but it would need a pub note explaining the source and why there's no image.
 +
:::::5) I'm broadly against making an exception for including ARC's / proofs when the book was unpublished although I do see Annie's point of view. But I think it's an unnecessary complication and veers back towards Ron's point about "encourage the addition of other proofs and ARC's especially by those editors who surmise rules by examples of what is already in the database" which is something I strongly agree we want to avoid. Also, if we do permit this exception, how do we implement it? Does it mean we would have two pub records: one for the unpublished work and one for the proof? [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 07:46, 8 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::::::I've gone ahead and change the notes as discussed above.  I've also moved the Worldcat number and the cover into the notes so that it's clear the record is for the unpublished work and not for the proof. I'll reject the held edit. Let me know if someone disagrees with these changes.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 21:47, 12 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Gaèl Baudino versus Gael Baudino ==
+
== N. Carroll ==
  
−
Is the correct first name of author G Baudino really spelled "Gaèl" as shown on her [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ch.cgi?1614 bio page] and all of her pubs? I have four early paperback novels written by her that all have her first name spelled "Gael" on the title pages. No one has created an alias. I can't find anywhere that spells it "Gaèl". Should it be mass changed to "Gael"? I'm puzzled where the "è" came from. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 08:58, 22 February 2022 (EST)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?165703; The stories belong with the other Carroll but that ndp thing doesn't look right to me so maybe some other differing addition should replace it. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:58, 7 February 2024 (EST)
−
:The software currently doesn't allow an alias from "Gael" to "Gaèl" as it treats the names as identical. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:05, 22 February 2022 (EST)
+
:Author attribution on the three stories, initially credited to Noël Carrol, has been corrected. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 07:57, 8 February 2024 (EST)
−
: The way the software works is that if the very first publication was created with the name as Gaèl, any subsequent one will default to it because Gaèl and Gael is the same name for the DB (it is a known limitation). I do not see a name update but there is a merge way back which seems to have caused this with a bad selection on what to remain as the valid name (there was a bug that could have allowed Gaèl and Gael to coexist under some circumstances but one of them was kinda hidden and causing issues elsewhere). We have two choices: change it to Gael (and add notes to the books which use Gaèl) or leave it as is and noes with the books which use Gael. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:23, 22 February 2022 (EST)
+
::Thanks. I still think it's weird about that (ndp) because there's thousands of nom de plumes on ISFDB but this is the only one that has that added on the end of the name. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 08:28, 8 February 2024 (EST)
−
:: PS: It most likely was created by one of the two French stories - then post-merge, with Gaèl as the default, every Gael got turned into it... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:25, 22 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:::I'd vote to change everything to Gael and add notes to anything that might actually have "Gaèl" if they can be identified but that's based on only the 4 pubs I can PV and searches on the WorldCat and Wikidata. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 18:00, 22 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
:::This has languished for a few weeks. What has to be done to implement this? Do I just submit a change to the author record and include a note about the change? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 10:28, 3 March 2022 (EST)
+
::: Well, we have some with (pseudonym) attached, and I'd think that'd be more meaningful (ndp isn't a colloquial abbreviation), or just a (I) attached. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] ([[User talk:Stonecreek|talk]]) 11:52, 8 February 2024 (EST)
−
:::: We tend to give people time to object when such changes are done. :) As noone objected to the change, it is now changed and a note for the second spelling added. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:08, 3 March 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
== German Burroughs ==
+
::::I don't think we should use any parentheticals if we can avoid it. Since we have the (I) thing we already use extensively, I think that would be the best option for any that are currently using "(pseudonym)" as a disambiguator. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:20, 8 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?720866; Editor TerokNor hasn't been around for years; I added cover to this, it says Gottin on cover, not Gotter, so anyone who may own a copy could check title page and fix if needed. Edgarriceburroughs.nl says: "The Gods of Mars (cover title Goddess of Mars). --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:04, 23 February 2022 (EST)
+
::::: There are reasons why I chose to set the author up as Noel Carroll (ndp). However, it's not worth our time to debate. I have changed it to [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?373877 Noel Carroll]. Not sure that the standards imply that Roman numerals are the preferred dismbiguator. [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:How_to_separate_two_authors_with_the_same_name Here] is the applicable help section. Thanks for your interest, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 14:06, 8 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
: There are two valid sources which state the currently recorded title "Die Götter des Mars": [https://d-nb.info/730353141 German National Library] and the [http://www.chpr.at/buecher/b/burrougb.htm Bibliography of German-language SF]. Both sources usually have a physical copy of the publication and are therefore very likely correct. What's stated on the ''title page'' defines the title of the publication, not the title on the cover, and given these two reliable sources I assume that the title page states "Die Götter des Mars". The record at German National Library also mentions "Göttin des Mars", but only in a note as a "secondary" title, which they probably mentioned because of the title deviation on cover and title page. BTW: TerokNor as been active a few days ago (see the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/topcontrib.cgi contributors] page). Jens [[User:Hitspacebar|Hitspacebar]]
+
== Karen Simmons ==
  
−
:: That's why I asked if anyone could check "title page", because what's on "title page" is canon. Mr. T hasn't responded on his discussion page since 8/2018, so I don't know what he's done lately but it's certainly not answering any questions. Also, don't forget to sign your messages with the next-to-last symbol above. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:56, 23 February 2022 (EST)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1117998; She's the wife of Dan Simmons, credited for author photograph in the HC which can be seen on eBay, [https://www.picclickimg.com/images/g/04sAAOSw1Mdltkv~/s-l1600.jpg], art is likely by one of the regular Headline cover artists, Chris Moore maybe, but I don't see a signature. So her credit should be removed. I noticed a 2nd printing of the Headline PB on Archive.org which has that same art (and price) but different blurbs on top and bottom so I'm going to enter that now. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:37, 8 February 2024 (EST)
−
::: The title page says "Die Götter des Mars", the cover "Göttin des Mars". Just checked on a physical copy. Werner [[User:Welo|Welo]] 08:57, 5 March 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
== Best Indie Book Award ==
+
:Hi! There's a primary verification by Faustus. It'd be meaningful if you contact him to shed some light on the actual credit. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] ([[User talk:Stonecreek|talk]]) 11:49, 8 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::Hi! There's no credit on the PB because there's no author photo like there is on the back of the HC. 2nd printing PB I just entered has no art credit. I'm sure someone here familiar with UK PB artists will identify it in some artist's book sooner or later but it's certainly not by Dan's wife. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:08, 8 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
This would be a good one to add. We'd need the following setup:
+
== Wesso ==
  
−
*'''Short Name:''' BIBA
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5885644; Wiki says 1893. Anyone here who can find proof it's really 1894? I looked for a headstone but couldn't find one. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:49, 8 February 2024 (EST)
−
*'''Full Name:''' Best Indie Book Award
 
−
*'''Awarded For:''' The Best Indie Book Award is an annual, international literary award contest recognizing independent authors all over the world since 2013. Entries are limited to independently (indie) published books, including those from small presses, e-book publishers, and self-published authors.  
 
−
*'''Awarded By:''' Not sure. I can't find the name of an organization that runs it (other than "Best Indie Book Award").
 
−
*'''Poll:''' No
 
−
*'''Non-Genre:''' Yes
 
−
*'''Web Page 1:''' https://bestindiebookaward.com/
 
−
*'''Note:''' There is an entry fee.
 
  
−
They have the following categories. I haven't looked through them to see if any of the non-genre categories might have genre works winning or being nominated. I've italicized the ones least likely to contain any genre nominations or winners:
+
== Story about the Premiere of Rite of Spring ==
−
*Romance
 
−
*Science Fiction/Dystopian
 
−
*Fantasy/Paranormal/Supernatural
 
−
*Action/Adventure
 
−
*Mystery/Cozy Mystery
 
−
*Suspense/Thriller
 
−
*Young Adult
 
−
*''Mainstream/Non-Genre/Literary Fiction''
 
−
*Short Story Collection/Poetry Collection
 
−
*Children
 
−
*Children’s Middle Grade
 
−
*''Historical Fiction''
 
−
*Humor/Satire
 
−
*Occult/Horror
 
−
*LGBTQ2
 
−
*Other Fiction (For any Genre Fiction not listed.)
 
−
*Christian (Fiction/Non-Fiction)
 
−
*''Non-Fiction''
 
−
*Non-Fiction> Memoir
 
−
*Non-Fiction> Biography
 
−
*''Non-Fiction> Self Help/Health''
 
−
*''Non-Fiction> Inspirational/Motivational''
 
−
*''Non-Fiction> New Age/Metaphysical/Visionary''
 
−
*''Non-Fiction> Religion/Spiritual''
 
−
*''Non-Fiction> Business/Investing/Marketing''
 
−
*''Non-Fiction> Cooking/Crafting/How-To''
 
−
*''Non-Fiction> Travel''
 
  
−
Please let me know if you need anything else. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:14, 23 February 2022 (EST)
+
I'm looking for the short story (probably from 1970s) about recreating the experience of the premiere of The Rite of Spring by giving all of the audience members a new drug. I believe this was in one of the better short story annuals of the era.
  
−
: Sorry, I forgot about this request :-(
+
Most of my book collection is in storage, alas, so I can't find this by leafing through my old pulp. {{Unsigned2|17:38, February 8, 2024‎| Martycohen36 }}
  
−
: Now that I am looking at the award description, I see that these awards are based on authors' submissions and the organizers require an "entry fee" for each submitted book. From [https://bestindiebookaward.com/submit/f-a-q-s/ their FAQ]:
+
== Black Christmas ==
−
:* 14. You may enter more than one book in the contest, but each entry must be accompanied by the entry fee. Entry fees are non-refundable.
 
−
:* 15. You may enter the book in multiple categories. There will be an extra fee for each additional category entered.
 
−
: In additions, the FAQ says that the winners get (FAQ 24):
 
−
:* Ongoing Promotion of the winning book through social media, print advertising, online advertising, email lists, and more. (100,000+ followers)
 
−
:* Five-Star rating on Goodreads.
 
−
:* Added to the BIBA® Winners list on Goodreads.
 
−
:* Custom Promotional Images of your book for you to use.
 
−
:* Promotion across multiple websites.
 
−
: These descriptions make it sound more like a promotional service than an award. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:35, 8 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
::I can see that. You do have to win to get those things, though, so it's not as simple as a "pay this fee and you get these services" thing. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:04, 8 March 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
::: Yes, but they also say (Q 17) that "In the event of a category having a large number of entries in a given year, we may also split categories to give entrants a better chance." That's pretty much a mechanism to keep their paying customers happy.
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?878255; While entering Wikipedia links for tons of novelizations I came across this rare 1976 one for the classic 1974 horror film. The original edition is apparently very rare because I've looked everywhere and can't find a copyright page that doesn't have the word FANGORIA on it because apparently Fangoria Magazine reprinted it in 2008 (although there is very little mention of this online). It does include the original info so I was able to enter the month (February, which is odd because you'd think it would be late in the year to capitalize on the holiday) but if anyone has a 1976 copy can you verify what it says on it? The film was Canadian and book says "Printed in Canada" so possibly it was only published there in which case the price will need a C added to it. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:18, 9 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
::: Apparently there are quite a few similar "awards" which are really contests for self-published authors. [https://self-publishingschool.com/how-to-win-self-published-book-awards/ This article] lists more than 20 of them. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:14, 8 March 2022 (EST)
+
== Riddle of the Exodus ==
−
::::That makes sense. This doesn't look like a good one to add, then. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:11, 9 March 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
== Gollancz Fantasy Date ==
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?185298; Not fiction, religious history book, https://openlibrary.org/works/OL8166080W/The_Riddle_of_the_Exodus?edition=key%3A/books/OL8566162M, probably should be deleted. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:30, 9 February 2024 (EST)
 +
:Deleted. I question if the author of the religious book is the same author as of the BattleTech books. I couldn't find anything on the religious author's sites that connect him to the BattleTech books. I will ping the active verifier for the BattleTech book to see if there is an author blurb. If not (or it indicates it is a different author), I will remove the the current author info from {{A|James D. Long}}. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 12:31, 10 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::Philfreund has confirmed the BattleTech book provides no biographical information on the author. I have removed the author info from {{A|James D. Long}} as it is more than likely a different person. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:28, 11 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?359054; Cover was missing so I added it from Amazon, Amazon says 1968 not 1978, ISBN fits in with '68 Gollancz books, who thinks date should be changed to 1968? --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:25, 24 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Mutant Chronicles ==
−
: [http://explore.bl.uk/primo_library/libweb/action/display.do?frbrVersion=10&tabs=moreTab&ct=display&fn=search&doc=BLL01010076225&indx=1&recIds=BLL01010076225&recIdxs=0&elementId=0&renderMode=poppedOut&displayMode=full&frbrVersion=10&vid=BLVU1&dscnt=0&vl(freeText0)=9780575000179&dstmp=1646764816918 British Library] and [https://www.worldcat.org/title/voyage-to-arcturus/oclc/59180798 OCLC] say 1978. Amazon.com is unreliable for such old books - they are second-hand vendors additions and these can be hit or miss. Plus a price of £4.50 is not consistent with 1968 - as a value (too high) and partially as a currency (a bit too early for pounds - they switched officially in February 1971 - although earlier dates are possible). I've added the BL and OCLC numbers while I was around anyway. It may have been a reserved ISBN or a later printing but with this combination of details, this is not a 1968 book. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:47, 8 March 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
== Series Number of Dresden Files short fiction ==
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?250352; I replaced the cover; if anyone knows about the old one, whether it was an early one that was rejected or if it belongs to a different edition, a note about early art or a new record for the other edition if it exists would be good. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 20:09, 11 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
Looking at Jim Butcher's Dresden Files series and those short fiction entries that have been allocated a series number, it seems that the intended numbering scheme is internal chronological order (although there are a few inconsistencies). This hit my radar when I was looking at my copy and the pub record for [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?327839 Side Jobs] and the series number for the short story Vignette. In the book it says it "Takes place between Death Masks and Blood Rites" so the series number should be 5.5, not 0.5 and the note in the title record for Vignette needs a corresponding correction. In any case, 0.5 would also be wrong if the numbering scheme were publication order.<br>
+
== Lieutenant Teasdale R.O.N. ==
−
In Side Jobs, every story starts with a statement of where it falls in the internal chronology relating to other novels / short fiction in the series, yet only one of the contents records after Vignette has a series number.<br>
 
−
I've just taken a brief look at my copy of the Brief Cases collection and it seems as though the internal chronological position of stories is also stated in that collection.<br>
 
−
So, assuming you're all still with me after this long diatribe, two questions:<br>
 
−
1) Is the series number a feature that's considered valuable in the ISFDb?  I'm quite happy to take on a project to figure out the series number for all the Dresden Files short fiction and make all the edits but I don't want to waste my time or moderators' time with something that's considered inconsequential.  It will involve about 10 submissions for the stories in Side Jobs alone and about another 15 for the stories in other collections.<br>
 
−
2) Who else, if anyone, should I inform? The title records for the contents entries themselves are not PVd and tracking down all the PVs of all the publications in which all of these pieces of short fiction appear and then notifying them will be onerous. And I'll be less happy to undertake the project! :-) [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] 18:56, 24 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: The more data, the better. We like order when we can establish it. However... when a story is strictly set between Novels 5 and 6, I would call it 5.5 even if it was published 11 years after novel 6 came out. Just saying. :) The numbering may have been done by mistake OR someone may have made a typo or who knows. Just add a note on the series level explaining the numbering of the short fiction and all is well. Adding the note with the statement of where the story falls and where it is explained while adding the numbers is also useful.
 
−
: As for PVs, as it is a relatively big series, anyone who had PVed a book that contains a story and is active has some stake into the numbering so I would bring that to their attention. You can (and should really) just point them to this thread instead of copying everywhere - thus keeping all conversations in one place. If they want to voice an objection, they can. If they don't or ignore the note, you just update the numbers :)
 
−
: Don't worry about the number of edits. They may sit on the board for a day or three if you hit a slow moment moderator-wise but as long as you clear the objections and add notes (and moderator notes if needed) and we know what you are doing, these are easy approvals. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:43, 24 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
::That's fine. I'll take this on. I will definitely add notes explaining the sources of the series numbers. Before I make any edits, I'll work out the series numbers for every short fiction and report back here first to advise any issues or lack of them. It'll probably take me a week or two to figure everything out. So don't crack the whip on me too hard. :-) [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] 17:55, 25 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:::Ok, I now have all the series numbers sitting in a spreadsheet.  Early in my research I came across a page on Jim Butcher's website that has a full timeline of Dresden Files events.  So that was most of my work done.  This timeline is more comprehensive than the story notes in the books because the latter only locate the shorts in relation to the novels, whereas the website timeline locates the shorts in relation to other shorts as well as the novels.  This becomes very relevant when you discover that 6 shorts take place between the novels <i>Small Favor</i> and <i>Turn Coat</i>.<br>
 
−
:::Some issues:<br>
 
−
:::A) When I'm adding title notes to explain the source of series numbering, is it ok to link to the author's webpage timeline in terms of stability and is it ok to link or refer to it in terms of permission?<br>
 
−
:::B) 3 of the shorts are in the Bigfoot series which is a sub-series of the Dresden Files.  Should I leave the numbers as their Bigfoot series numbers (1, 2, 3) or assign their parent series numbers, which will be 2.5, 7.1, 11.2 respectively ?<br>
 
−
:::C) I wasn't intending to touch the Dresden Files Graphic Novels because I don't have any of them but, actually, I could if I'm using the website timeline. However, they form another sub-series so same question as B) above.<br>
 
−
:::D) According to the website timeline, the shorts "Day One" and "Zoo Day" take place concurrently.  Should I assign the same series number to both, which will be 15.7 ?  Is that acceptable within the ISFDb?  Alternatively, I could just assign series numbers of 15.7 and 15.8 arbitrarily.  Please advise. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] 18:30, 3 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
:::: A) Linking to the author's page is ok.
 
−
:::: B) If you pull them in their own series, use the numbers 1,2,3. If you keep them in the main series, you use the 2.5 and so on. In both cases use the template <nowiki>{{MultiS}}</nowiki> in the notes and add a note which is the second series (existing or not in ISFDB). The Notes field help page has links to all available templates and their explanation.
 
−
:::: C) See B :)
 
−
:::: D) You cannot have two entries with the same series number. Select numbers based on... something (publication date?) and add notes explaining that if needed.
 
−
:::: Did I miss something? :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:36, 3 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
:::::All looks good.  I will inform some PVs now, wait a few days for feedback and then start the edits some time next week. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] 09:30, 4 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
::::::No objections. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 12:00, 4 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
:::::::I imagine that this will continue to evolve as more stories are released.  Adding all this detail will make updates much easier down the road.  This is great! [[User:Taweiss|Tom]] 18:06, 4 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
::::::::Ok, it's all done.  Took about 30 edits but we got there eventually.  Thanks for your help with this Annie. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] 13:28, 12 March 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
== The End of the World ==
+
I need to make several changes to the pub records for [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3126730 Lieutenant Teasdale R.O.N.]. The tp edition has a sole PV by the late Biomassbob but he somehow missed showing that Paula Goodlett is the co-author of the work. Amazon also shows the pub date for that edition as 2023-12-07, not 2023-12-02 as currently shown in the pub record. The 12-07 date makes more sense since all of the other self-published books by Gorg Hoff and Paula Goodlett have the ebook edition published the day prior to the tp edition. Any objection to my making changes? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 12:21, 12 February 2024 (EST)
 +
: Mistakes happen :) Go ahead - make sure the notes clarify where the date is coming from. And while you are there, we do not use "Independently published" as a publisher - so can you also fix that (author names are used when there is no publisher). I will sort out the other 2 we have under that publisher later today. Thanks for finding this one! :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 13:44, 12 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::Done. I also corrected the title for the Interiorart maps record to match current standards. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 15:29, 12 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?958717; Actually a 1982 PB of a 1981 HC titled Invitation to a Holocaust and reprinted many times by Pinnacle; author seemingly wrote dozens of nonsense books about psychic powers and such. Only here because of the review so probably could be deleted and review kept. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:51, 24 February 2022 (EST)
+
== Locus1 Secondary Verifications ==
−
:Review converted to essay and publication deleted as ineligible work. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 17:11, 28 February 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
== Burrage Barrage ==
+
Occasionally I come across pubs that have been SVd to Locus1 solely on the basis of their mention as the first edition of a later publication. The first one I encountered, as a very rookie editor, was this one: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?197293 David Brin / Sundiver]. I asked the SVer, Rtrace, about it and received [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Rtrace/Archive15#David_Brin_.2F_Sundiver this explanation]. For the purposes of this thread I shall refer to these as "indirect listings".
−
 
+
<br>
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?6518; Mr. Burrage just keeps on giving; whenever I find more stuff to do related to him even more turns up. Today I noticed a signature on the bottom of his '27 Some Ghost Stories; the artist, Cecil Cornforth, doesn't seem to be credited anywhere on the web for this cover (actually, he's barely credited for any artwork). Then I found that Burrage's essay "Un-Paying Guests" had been reprinted much earlier than credited on ISFDB, in a Ghost Story Society booklet released free to their members (along with 2 rare stories), so that booklet was entered in an edit. Then, most amusingly, the preface "A Skene" which is in his 1967 collection Between the Minute and the Hour confused me since he died 10 years before the book was published. Turns out it was written by Anthony Skene. Ha! Mr. Skene only has 1 other credit on ISFDB, a 1924 essay reprinted in a Michael Moorcock collection, and apparently was well-known for writing Sexton Blake novels. What I'd like to know now is who did that beautiful cover for the '31 Someone in the Room. If anyone knows, let me know. A nicer photo of Mr. Burrage would be good, too; there don't seem to be very many online. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:56, 27 February 2022 (EST)
+
The most recent one I have encountered is [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?191929 David Gerrold / Chess with a Dragon] and it is this pub record that has prompted this thread because there is a clear contradiction between the SV to Locus1 and the pub note "Locus1 fails to list this pub (as of 2010-06-21)."
−
 
+
<br>
−
== Richard Hughes and Robots ==
+
So my question is: should these indirect listings be allowed as SVs to Locus1? If I ruled the world I would not permit them because I don't think they conform to a general user's expectation of a Locus1 listing and they can cause confusion and inconsistencies as demonstrated by the Gerrold record. However, I do not feel strongly about this. I accept Ron's point that these indirect listings provide at least as much information as Clute/Nicholls and if the consensus is that they should be allowed then I can live quite happily with this.
−
 
+
<br>
−
http://www.philsp.com/homeville/SFI/k00271.htm#A14; http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2949275; I saw a cool photo of famous Brit author Hughes on FantLab and was sad to see it already on ISFDB (probably added by me long ago and forgotten about); however, it unearthed an interesting situation. There's a recent entry by Richard Hughes in some kind of robot anthology which is obviously not by the same Hughes, but while looking at ISFDB's "same name" page and trying to figure which was the best way to differentiate the two I discovered that the PV, VWCrist, hasn't responded since 2018, and according to that philsp.com link above, the work was actually from a 1955 comic, and Hughes and Suchorsky show up in several comic sites for 1950's works. So what's the best way to do this? --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:03, 28 February 2022 (EST)
+
However, if we do allow them then this Help page: [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Reference:Verification_Sources Reference:Verification_Sources] needs amendment. The matrix currently states that Locus1 provides "All" the information for fields such as Pages, Price and others but this is not true for the indirect listings. So either:
−
 
+
<br>
−
:[http://www.philsp.com/homeville/SFI/n00468.htm#A3 Here] is some help. Looks like the Richard Hughes from "The Robot!" is Richard E. Hughes, while the Richard Hughes of the 1931 poem is Richard Arthur Warren Hughes, as indicated in our record. So the record for "The Robot!" could be separated out using a disambiguated name; we could leave the other one alone or add disambiguation to that as well.  Since we know something definite about middle names for both, "Richard Hughes (Arthur Warren)" and "Richard Hughes (E.)" would work, although a little clunky. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 15:13, 2 March 2022 (EST)
+
a) The relevant fields for Locus1 should be changed from "All" to "Some" (or maybe "Most").
−
 
+
<br>
−
== Nightly processing getting split ==
+
or
−
 
+
<br>
−
As the database grows and we add more and more cleanup reports, the process of regenerating database statistics and cleanup reports takes longer and longer. While the nightly process runs, the system is so sluggish that it might as well be unresponsive.
+
b) A note should be added to the page explaining Locus1 indirect listings and clarifying that the values in the matrix for Locus1 only apply to full listings.
−
 
+
<br>
−
To minimize the impact of nightly processing on system availability, I am starting to move certain processes to a separate job which will be run on Sunday morning. So far I have moved the process of regenerating database statistics, which should save around 4 minutes every night between Monday and Saturday. If everything looks good tomorrow morning, I will start moving relatively low priority cleanup reports to the Sunday job. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:18, 3 March 2022 (EST)
+
I prefer solution b).
−
 
+
<br>
−
== A robotic chess game ==
+
Opinions please. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:38, 15 February 2024 (EST)
−
 
 
−
I've been looking for a number of years for an author/title for a first-contact work.
 
−
 
 
−
This search goes back perhaps 5-10 years and is for a work (most likely a short story) published earlier than 2005.
 
  
−
The rough idea is that a first-contact mission to a planet sends out a robotic "explorer" of some type. While searching the surrounding area, the robotic explorer encounters another entity - a precise copy of itself - and finds that any physical movement it makes, the copy executes a mirror maneuver to block the original's further excursions.  If the original moves left, the copy moves to the right blocking it's advance.
+
: An interesting point. So basically Locus1 has two types of records. One type covers editions published between 1984 and 2007 and includes publication details. The other type covers first editions (including editions published before 1984) and only lists their year and publisher. In an ideal world, we may want to create a separate Secondary Verification type for the latter and call it something like "Locus1-First Edition". Unfortunately, I am not sure it would be feasible since we have over [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/stats.cgi?2 50,000 Locus1 verifications] and separating them would be a very time-consuming project. If we decide not to do it, then I agree that we should update [[Reference:Verification_Sources]] to reflect the fact that not all Locus1-verified publication records can be expected to have publication level data.
  
−
At the time, I was reading Lem's works and thought it might be by him but I haven't been able to find anything like this.
+
: As far as cases like {{A|David Gerrold}}'s [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?191929 Chess with a Dragon] go, I would reword Notes. Instead of saying "Locus1 fails to list this pub (as of 2010-06-21)", I would say something like "Locus1 doesn't have a detailed record for this edition, but multiple records for reprint editions refer to it as the first edition." [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:48, 16 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::Yes, I realised when I started the thread that if we disallow the Locus1 indirect listings there could be a legacy issue of past records SVd to Locus1 that would be difficult to amend. This is often a problem when rules and standards are changed. So although in theory I would vote to disallow these cases, I accept it is not practical to do so. Consequently I am happy with leaving them as they are and updating [[Reference:Verification_Sources]] to reflect the fact that not all Locus1-verified publication records can be expected to have publication level data, which we both agree with.
 +
::I am working on [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?191929 David Gerrold / Chess with a Dragon] and so will incorporate the change to the Locus1 pub note as you suggest. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 17:08, 16 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
As I recall, the story was published as part of a collection of short stories - possibly by the same author (not sure about the author part though - it could have been a collection of stories by various authors).
+
::: Hearing no objection, I have clarified the "Locus1" row of [[Reference:Verification Sources]]. Thanks for identifying this issue. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:12, 26 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::::Thank you. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 16:27, 2 March 2024 (EST)
  
−
Thanks for any help anyone can provide. <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Magillaonfire|Magillaonfire]] ([[User talk:Magillaonfire|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Magillaonfire|contribs]]) 8:35, 4 March 2022 (EST)</small>
+
== Necronomicon in Sweden ==
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== 2022-03-05 performance issues ==
 
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There are a lot of (apparently) automated connections to the ISFDB server at the moment. It's making the system almost unusable at times. I am looking into it. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 10:22, 5 March 2022 (EST)
 
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: I have examined our log files and it looks like we are being hammered by robots which are constantly accessing random pages. For example, they access "Delete Title" pages for title records linked to multiple publication records, which no human editor would do. They are also using a variety of IP addresses from different regions, which makes it impossible to block them without specialized software. I'll ask Al if he has any ideas. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:10, 5 March 2022 (EST)
 
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::I blocked the top IP address (with more than 100,000 accesses today) using iptables. Don't know if that will help in this case. [[User:Alvonruff|Alvonruff]] 13:47, 5 March 2022 (EST)
 
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−
::: Thanks! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:37, 5 March 2022 (EST)
 
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== Who 50 ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?429068; https://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-Doctors-Anniversary-Collection/dp/0141348941; ISFDB record for this book had no page # for stories so I entered them from Archive copy, https://archive.org/details/bbcdoctorwho11do0000unse, but cover doesn't match one on ISFDB which has a "50 Years" blurb on it. I replaced cover with Open Library one, but it's as dark as if someone dropped it down a well and then took a picture of it; the Amazon link above shows same cover as Archive but also another cover which says "50th Anniversary Anthology" on it , which neither Archive's or ISFDB's does (although Archive says "50th Anniversary Collection" on back cover). So if anyone owns any editions it would be good to enter them because they seem to have released this with multiple covers. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:07, 5 March 2022 (EST)
 
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== Starlog Covers ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?33627; May '77 and May '78 are the only 2 issues that have cover images judging from my quick scan of all issues; why, and should those 2 covers be deleted? --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:24, 6 March 2022 (EST)
 
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== Alex or Alexa? ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?94243; Here's a tricky one; Archive.org includes an archivist named Public Resource who apparently scanned over a million items from public libraries in India. I've added many old books in edits today, but they also include more recent books; Edmund Crispin's 1960's-era Best Tales of Terror 1 and 2 being examples. The item in question here is John Keir Cross' story "Happy Birthday, Dear Alexa", which has a note on ISFDB about Tuck wrongly titling it "Alex". Turns out that's the original title; the next reprint, in 1972's London Tales of Terror, also says "Alex" on contents page, and since the only hit on Google for that book and "Alexa" is our own site, I think it's safe to say it's "Alex" inside the book, too. Then there's the 1981 Hoke anthology, https://archive.org/details/mysteriousmenaci00hoke, which says "Alex" on copyright page but "Alexa" everywhere else in the book. So some varianting may be needed. I tried to delete the wrong note about Tuck but because all notes in that record were added with those dots I keep getting a yellow warning about mismatched HTML tags, so if a mod wants to delete it that's fine. EDIT: Well hell, the copy of Best Tales of Terror 1 shows title page and other books by Faber in the same "Best..." series and then proceeds to more than 400 pages of a book about Queen Elizabeth I. So Mr. "Public Resource" or someone else screwed up. At least #2 is really there, although searching is tough because misspellings of titles and faded/corrupted pages abound so searching by author and then by title if that doesn't work is sometimes necessary. --[[User:Username|Username]] 16:59, 6 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== The Thrill Book  ==
 
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−
Unless anyone else had this project on their radar I am going to tackle it using scans of the issues, Bleiler's Annotated Index to The Thrill Book, and a two-volume collection of most of the stories published by LuluBooks. There will be a number of changes to editorship records and the removal and deletion of nongenre titles.--[[User:Swfritter|swfritter]] 17:49, 6 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Have fun :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:52, 8 March 2022 (EST)
 
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−
== Transliteration reports moved to the weekly job ==
 
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−
All "transliterated values" reports have been moved to the weekly job. A new line has been added to the top of all cleanup reports to indicate how frequently the are run: nightly, weekly or monthly.
 
−
 
 
−
In addition, the nightly process has been changed to rebuild cleanup reports one report at a time, so they will no longer disappear when the job kicks in at 1am server time. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 18:42, 8 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Psychotronic ==
 
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−
I have a copy of Michael Weldon's 1983 book The Psychotronic Encyclopedia of Film, bought back in the late 80's. I came across this book on ISFDB today and decided to check to make sure all info was correct. Turns out the copy I have is a third printing with a $17.95 price, unlike the $16.95 of the first edition. The page count was also slightly off, being 815 instead of 813 (814 is also mentioned online in some places). There's also a foreword by well-known author Christopher Cerf which wasn't entered so I took care of that, too, and added another WorldCat ID, the old one being in German or something. However, the most important thing is I decided to replace the cover on ISFDB with the 1 on FantLab, being darker and clearer, and noticed the text on the cover was different. At the bottom of the original is "The most amazing film book ever!" while later editions replaced that with a blurb from American Film. The FantLab cover has 1st edition's price and ID on the cover, while the cover on ISFDB had a TWENTY-DOLLAR price and a different ID. How many times was this book reprinted?!? Anyway, if anyone has the elusive second edition or knows what edition costs $20, reply or enter. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:25, 10 March 2022 (EST)
 
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== ISFDB time settings corrected ==
 
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−
In the past, some ISFDB pages, including the front page, used Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) while other pages used ISFDB server time (currently Eastern Standard Time.) The software has been standardized to use local server time across all pages. If you come across any issues, please let me know. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 22:15, 10 March 2022 (EST)
 
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== Pan Prices ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?264637; I replaced the cover with Bookscans cover, then noticed the price was missing in the corner. Dalby's site has this, https://richarddalbyslibrary.com/collections/newest-shopify-test/products/herbert-van-thal-the-second-pan-book-of-horror-stories-1960-first-edition-paperbacks, and this, https://richarddalbyslibrary.com/products/herbert-van-thal-the-second-pan-book-of-horror-stories-1960-paperbacks, which show the price but as a sticker, which is obvious because in 1 photo it's peeling off. So I think I'm going to leave my edit alone since I figure that's the original edition and price was added to later editions' covers, of which apparently there were many; http://www.45worlds.com/book/title/the-second-pan-book-of-horror-stories. If anyone is an expert on these old Brit PB's and disagrees let me know. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:53, 11 March 2022 (EST)
 
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== Unknown Page Numbers ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?359095; Someone entered the second volume in this series and imported contents with page #'s without realizing the HC and PB #'s are totally different. There's an Archive copy of the HC so I fixed those #'s, but now I notice someone made the same error for the first volume, and I can't find anywhere that shows the contents page. So if anyone owns this they may want to fix those HC #'s. --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:06, 12 March 2022 (EST)
 
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== Container reports moved to the weekly job  ==
 
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−
All "Container" cleanup reports have been moved to the weekly job. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:08, 12 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: Ditto "Translation" reports. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 22:57, 12 March 2022 (EST)
 
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== Lin Carter series name change ==
 
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Based on the following comment in the the Author's Note published in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?10771 Down to a Sunless Sea], I would like to change the series name from "The Man Who Loved Mars" [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?2607] to "The Mysteries of Mars".
 
−
 
 
−
:"This is the fourth, and, probably, the last novel I shall write in a loose sequence of books I think of under the heading of "The Mysteries of Mars.""
 
−
 
 
−
The existing series name is the same as the title of the first book in the series. Would anyone object to making this change? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 08:18, 13 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:Never owned any of these, but support the change as long as none of the subsequent books reference the name "The Man Who Loved Mars" as anything other than the name of the first book. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 11:13, 13 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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−
::: And [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_Carter_bibliography#The_Mysteries_of_Mars Wikipedia] also lists your proposal as 'official' name of the series. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 13:29, 13 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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== I Am the Walrus ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?407806, https://canerdr.blogspot.com/2013/10/walrus-tales-table-of-contents.html?m=0; This bizarro anthology which includes many well-known authors doesn't seem to have any Kindle edition to check inside, and info online is scarce, unusual for such a recent book. I started to enter partial contents from Datlow's Honorable Mentions list at the back of one of her Best Horror of the Year anthologies which included several stories from this book, then I found the full contents on that nearly 10-year-old Brazilian (!) site, but the Ranalli title is spelled differently on ISFDB and  the site doesn't mention that Ranalli's and Hughes' story are reprints. So I imported those 2 and added a link to that site, but if anyone owns a copy they can check if there's a publication history to verify which stories are reprints and if original stories are spelled the same as on that site so that they can be entered. ISFDB gets a shout-out on the site, too! --[[User:Username|Username]] 16:01, 13 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
: Contents were just entered by a PV. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:17, 7 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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== The Very Eye of Death ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?381543; Minor point here, but there's 2 Creation Oneiros collections I added from Archive.org recently, and while W. H. Hodgson's Horrors from Haunted Seas had a very different page count (288 on ISFDB vs. the correct 259; corrected by me recently), the Poe collection says 192 on ISFDB, while a couple of Amazon pages agree and 1 says 191, which seems to be correct, but there may be something on the last page that's not included in the contents. Anyone with Archive account can check their copy and make sure. --[[User:Username|Username]] 13:43, 15 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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== Andrew Osmond - split into two author entries? ==
 
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[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?24429 Andrew Osmond] is apparently both:
 
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* the co-author (with a fairly well known in the UK Conservative politician) of three novels from the late 1960s/early 1970s, who died in 1999 (as documented on Wikipedia and a UK national newspaper)
 
−
* the writer of a few essays and reviews, mostly anime related, and most of which post-date the aforementioned death date
 
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It seems highly likely to me that these should be split to two different author records.  The latter person seems to have a reasonable online presence ([https://twitter.com/alan_neil42 Twitter], [https://www.stonebridge.com/authors/Andrew-Osmond publisher bio], [https://anime-etc.net/about-andrew-osmond what seems to be a self-authored bio], none of which mentions co-writing novels with politicians.
 
−
 
 
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Any objections to splitting these up? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 13:25, 16 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:They should definitely be split up. I've known the second Andrew for years (though I haven't seen him for years, either). Nice guy. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:35, 16 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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:: Thanks.
 
−
:: I just hacked up a rough SQL query to report on anomalous death dates vs title dates.  Lots of false positives - so not something that could easily be turned into a cleanup report - but this author record also looks like a candidate for splitting:
 
−
:: * [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?314792 Richard Young] - US author who died in 2015 vs (probably) British [http://www.lethbridge-stewart.co.uk/meet-the-artists-richard-young/ currently active] artist for UK SF TV tie-ins. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 15:35, 16 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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:::: That second one should be called Richard Young (artist) when you split them ;) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:38, 16 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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::::: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?342164 Richard Young] is done.  Does anyone have any preferences on which of the Andrew Osmonds to rename and/or how?  The newer one describes himself as a journalist on one of the links I supplied above, but as the earlier one was involved in the satirical news magazine Private Eye, I don't think that's a particularly helpful way of disambiguating them.  Maybe "(1938-1999)" for the older one?
 
−
:::::: Unless the new one is a new Isaac Asimov (aka very prolific or very well known or the new one has A LOT of books), the old one keeps his name and the new one gets the (I) :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:47, 16 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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== The Curse of the Lion ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1094960; The contents of this have never been entered because they (except for "The Ape People") don't appear in secondary sources, but it turns out they do, sort of; this link, http://www.philsp.com/homeville/fmi/l/ll00124.htm#A10, lists all stories in the "Bruce Logan" series, and 1 of them has the same title as the collection. It's mentioned in an old ad for the book and in a 50's fanzine that the narrator is Bruce Logan. I know better than to ask if anyone has a copy of the original, but someone here must own the recent Coachwhip reprint to verify the contents, right? --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:25, 16 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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:Sorry, but I think this assumption ain't right: most editors have some special areas of interest, and if a publication is not in one of those it's rather unlikely that someone owns a specific copy of a publication. So, if it's not PVed, one can assume that not one of our editors has it in her or his stock. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 13:21, 17 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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== Last Day ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?11336; cover is used for every edition except 1 foreign cover, but only credited cover is Dutch. Is that really the original? Should other cover art credits be variants of that or should it be a variant of whichever English-language edition was the original? --[[User:Username|Username]] 09:14, 17 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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:Surely not the original, made a [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3004254 parent title], ready to import (or merge). Thanks, Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 13:32, 17 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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== Doll Maker / Dollmaker ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?2159; I did some edits for Sarban's work and this is puzzling me; the title of his collection is The Doll Maker but the story inside is "The Dollmaker"; shouldn't they be the same? Also, it's novel-length, not novella, which is why it was reprinted as a standalone novel a few times. The story "The Trespassers" should be a novella, I think; it's 50, 56 or 62 pages long depending on which book it's in. --[[User:Username|Username]] 22:12, 17 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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== Old Paper ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?554648; This is the only book on ISFDB from this publisher that seems to have the full book on Archive.org; others are missing pages with month and so forth. However, judging by the catalog at the back of one of them they sold cloth for $1.00 and paper for 50¢; seeing as how this is the cheaper version, how does the format change? Did they have trade paperbacks back then in 1892, or should it just be made a PB? --[[User:Username|Username]] 22:39, 17 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:Not looking closely at your example and based on Jules Verne research, copies were sold with and without covers, assuming that people would bind them themselves. I'll be interested in the answer. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 22:53, 17 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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== Blatty Question ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2184055; William Peter Blatty's Twinkle, Twinkle, Killer Kane has many editions on ISFDB; there's a note about it being heavily revised as The Ninth Configuration, a film version with that title being released in 1980. I'd like to enter an edition of Ninth from the only copy on Archive.org, but as can be seen in that link above, the only mention of that title here says it's "non-genre". Knowing the movie had definite genre elements I assume the book does, too, so why is it non-genre but Kane is genre? --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:51, 18 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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== French Exorcist ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5264948; French speakers, I found a French Exorcist edition, https://archive.org/details/lexorciste0000blat_h2y4, which isn't on ISFDB; it's by the well-known publisher J'ai Lu, but unlike their much earlier edition on ISFDB which just uses the standard Exorcist cover, this edition uses a crazy-eyed girl as the cover. I made a sad attempt at entering it but I don't have a clue what some of the info on the back cover means, so when this is approved if anyone would like to further improve it, please do. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:21, 18 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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== R. Louis? ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2820529; The OL ID links to a preview-only copy, but there's 2 copies I just added links to from Public Library of India which are 1946 reprints. All editions credit R. L. Stevenson, so that R. Louis variant should probably be gone and R. L. variant substituted. Uh-oh, I just checked and that preview copy is also a 1946 reprint, so none of these Archive copies are the original 1945 edition; something may have to be done about that. --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:17, 18 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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== Fireman Flower ==
 
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?601237; The Public Library of India comes through again; William Sansom's first collection was entered here years ago; I remembered doing something for it a long time ago, realized it was only finding that lovely cover, and being glad of that because another editor, Vasha77, long-gone now, entered the page #'s and got them completely wrong. You'd think someone would have noticed since they end on a much higher number than the page count. I fixed them all, but in my usual OCD way searched for Sansom instead of William Sansom and another Fireman Flower edition came up, https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.475678, which says 1944 but is actually from 1952, in Chatto & Windus' New Phoenix Library. ISFDB has only 2 books in Phoenix Library (no New) for Chatto, 2 editions separated by 20 years of an Ambrose Bierce collection, and an online search seems to suggest there were a lot of books in that series, so other genre books may be waiting to be entered. Sansom's collection is barely genre, with many mainstream stories, but if anyone feels like entering that '52 edition it's there; the page count is much higher than the original Hogarth edition, so I don't know if they printed on really small pages or what. --[[User:Username|Username]] 23:52, 18 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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== Publisher Pricing Stickers ==
 
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How do we handle publisher pricing stickers? Where the publication is exactly the same as an existing record, but the publisher has add a sticker to the book with a higher price? If it were a re-seller or other secondary party, it would be pretty straightforward that it is not a new edition. But when the publisher adds the sticker, how do we want to handle that? --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 17:15, 19 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
: Do what I did. Clone the publication and make a note that the publisher has added a sticker over the old prices with the new higher prices. It can't be a reprint as otherwise the copyright page would state that fact. Presumably at some point they must have printed a large number at the lower price then for "reasons" something happened to affect the prioe of books and the publisher had to print stickers with the new prices to put over the old prices on their remaining stock. --[[User:Mavmaramis|Mavmaramis]] 17:22, 19 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
::"It can't be a reprint". Exactly, it's the same publication, not a new one. I'm not seeing how this is a different case then how we handle ebooks. When we know it is the same ebook sold at different prices, we add that information to the notes. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 07:57, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
::: Well yes but if you have a copy that has one of these publisher's stickers on the back, especially if it's a wraparound cover, then uploading that image will replace one that's already there with the original prices (if the full wraparound has been uploaded that is). So although the note would be sufficent for cases where the cover isn't wraparound it's not adequate when the cover is wraparound (as in the case of my copy of Herbert's Destination Void). So i think that cloning the original entry with the original prices and amending the entry with the new price(s) as per the publisher's sticker would be best as then an image can be uploaded to show the sticker on the back of the wraparound artwork. --[[User:Mavmaramis|Mavmaramis]] 08:13, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:::: But that will essentially create 2 separate records for the same version of the book... if the stickers get removed (by mistake or on purpose), does it mean you now own a different version of the book? :) Under that logic, we should also be be creating multiple versions of publications for books which get a ton of awards and the publisher keeps adding stickers about them on the cover of the same already printed books. Stickers and price clipping are essentially the same thing for us - modification of the books post-printing. We use notes for these -- and if you want to add the second cover, upload it as a normal file on the wiki and link it. So I would not make a clone personally. Just my 2 cents :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:58, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
 
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−
::::: [[Help:Screen:NewPub]] currently says:
 
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:::::* ...if the price change is via a stickered label, the price change should be ignored. For example, copies of the British distribution of some American magazines were stickered with a British price. These are not British reprint editions of those magazines, but simply imported copies of the American edition, so a separate publication record with a separate price value should not be created for them.
 
−
::::: I would use the same approach when dealing with stickers used by the original publisher, but I would also use Notes to document the fact that at least some copies had a sticker with a higher price. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:18, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:Annie wrote "if you want to add the second cover, upload it as a normal file on the wiki and link it" - fine if you actually know how to do that. I do not. The wraparound cover with publisher's sticker has been posted elsewhere so I could link to that image instead. --[[User:Mavmaramis|Mavmaramis]] 12:44, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:: [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:How_to_upload_images_to_the_ISFDB_wiki#Direct_Upload_Procedure Direct Upload]. It is one of the links we post in the Welcome message for new editors but either you never got one or it got lost in the shuffle of archiving. External link also works :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:24, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
::: Probably easier for me to link to the image already uploaded elsewhere to be honest. --[[User:Mavmaramis|Mavmaramis]] 16:15, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== The Man They Couldn't Kill ==
 
−
 
 
−
"I am so thrilled! Arriving in the mail from New Zealand today, I just acquired the only copy for sale in the world (that I could find) of Roy Meyers' first novel: The Man They Couldn't Kill." "The book itself is quite strange in appearance. No copyright year features anywhere in the book, so I have no idea how ISFDB determined it was 1944. It has the appearance of a pulp magazine of the time and is made on pulp paper in pulp magazine size with a pulp magazine shiny paper cover. The title page says the publisher is "Fiction House LTD. 162a Strand, London, W.C.2 Copyright Reserved." Does that mean it was published in the second water closet? The back page indicates it was printed by the "Blackfriars Press, Ltd., Smith-Dorrien Road, Leicester." The above was written by a "deleted user" on Goodreads recently; it seems to contradict some of the info on ISFDB. Any pulp experts here may want to look at this to see if any changes are needed. --[[User:Username|Username]] 08:00, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
: It certainly means that it was published in the second wuthering cave that London's underworld is filled with ;-). Sorry, that I can't help with the other unsolved problems (but if each of the other editors is as helpful as me, we'll have them solved in no time). Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 12:55, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
:: Your edition is documented in Worldcat. Unfortunately, there are no copies available in a library near me. The only additional data Worldcat seems to have is that the author's middle name was Lethbridge. There is another copy available at biblio.com [https://www.biblio.com/book/couldnt-kill-roy-meyers/d/1340660894]--[[User:Swfritter|swfritter]] 18:40, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
::: It's someone on Goodreads who bought that copy, not me, hence the quotes; the last 2 sentences are mine. There's a Fiction House on ISFDB but it published American pulp zines and so is probably not the same. The other thing about Roy Meyers is that he supposedly co-wrote 1 of those crap Laser novels, in 1977, several years after he died. I find it hard to believe an obscure British pulp writer hooked up with an American SF writer (J.F. Bone) and wrote a novel and then it laid around for years until finally being published. There's a note about the name on the cover being Roy Myers, so I suspect that may be who actually co-wrote it, and Roy Meyers had nothing to do with it. But I'm probably wrong. All I'm sure about is most of those Laser novels were awful. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:34, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
:::: My copy of Dolphin Boy describes it as the author's first novel so perhaps he disowned The Man They Couldn't Kill. SFE claims all the novels are by the same person but who knows? Perhaps we are dealing with three different authors.--[[User:Swfritter|swfritter]] 19:13, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== The Old Tobacco Shop ==
 
−
 
 
−
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.264545; Even though all of William Bowen's works on ISFDB are in the public domain range there don't seem to be any Archive copies except the book linked above; it's a 1922 reprint, not 1921, and is damaged, but last page clearly says 241 with THE END at the bottom. ISFDB and LCCN say 236, but there is a list of 5 illustrations near the front, so it's possible those pages weren't counted. So if anyone wants to look at it. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:56, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
: After two years I need remind myself of this and that. During late March 2022 ;-) i will include this work and also ''The First Book of Unknown Tales of Horror'' ([[#Unknown Page Numbers]]) in the corpus. --[[User:Pwendt|Pwendt]]|[[User talk:Pwendt|talk]] 15:05, 24 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Chico ==
 
−
 
 
−
"Chico Buarque, who wrote the wonderful novel Fazenda modelo/Typical Manor (1974), a variation on Orwell's Animal Farm, which is a satire on capitalism"; the above comes from a blog on FantLab; there's a section on Brazilian writers, but his ISFDB record, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?331575, is empty. So if anyone knows what's up with that; maybe a story that was deleted or something. --[[User:Username|Username]] 16:31, 23 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?889711 Updated]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:34, 24 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:Also, it was empty because there was [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2914172 a review] of the book, but the book wasn't entered. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:35, 24 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Encyclopedia Cthulhiana ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/titlecovers.cgi?1452020; https://archive.org/details/the-encyclopedia-cthulhiana; I found a Japanese (?) edition of this non-fiction book which has a cover unlike any of the others on ISFDB. Maybe a Japanese-fluent editor would like to enter it. --[[User:Username|Username]] 16:04, 24 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3008180 Done]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:08, 24 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Mummy Extract ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1654520; I have a thing about old authors who have story or book dates much later than the rest of their work; in this case typing the title linked above on Google brought up that it's actually Chapter III of his novel The Mummy and Miss Nitocris. I added "The Ghost Ships" to W.H. Hodgson's record recently and gave it a 1909 date because it was a chapter from his novel The Ghost Pirates, since it's not really an extract but a whole chapter that has the same title as the story included in the much later collection of Hodgson's stories, but I didn't change this one because I'm not entirely sure what's correct. Should this have the date changed to that of Griffith's novel or should it be left alone with just a note saying it's a chapter? --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:24, 24 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== More HTTP/HTTPS changes - cover scan URLs ==
 
−
 
 
−
A few thousand cover scan URLs hosted by third party sites have been upgraded to use HTTPS. The only supported third party sites still using HTTP are:
 
−
 
 
−
* sf-encyclopedia.uk (note that sf-encyclopedia.com supports HTTPS)
 
−
* www.philsp.com and philsp.com -- reportedly no plans to upgrade to HTTPS
 
−
* www.mondourania.com
 
−
* people.uncw.edu
 
−
* www.sf-leihbuch.de and sf-leihbuch.de
 
−
* books.ofearna.us and art.ofearna.us -- note that ofearna.us supports HTTPS
 
−
 
 
−
Covers hosted by the following three sites can be found using Advanced Publication Search and will require manual review:
 
−
 
 
−
* covers.openlibrary.org -- current HTTP URLs redirect to multiple different Web sites
 
−
* www.grantvillegazette.com -- the Web site structure and the URLs have changed; need to review and update all URLs; see [https://grantvillegazette.com/archives/ the Web site's main archive page] for details
 
−
* img1.fantasticfiction.co.uk and www.fantasticfiction.co.uk -- URLs seem to be moving to img1.fantasticfiction.com; need to be reviewed
 
−
 
 
−
Amazon-hosted images are a separate issue and require more research. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:32, 25 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
: Most eligible HTTP links to third party Web pages have been upgraded to HTTPS. The rest will have to be done manually. Here is what I discovered while reviewing HTTP links:
 
−
:
 
−
: Changed URL structure:
 
−
:* zinewiki.com - need to add '/wiki/' between the domain name and the article name
 
−
:* www.tercerafundacion.net - changed to https://tercerafundacion.net [note dropped the 'www']
 
−
:* www.alisoneldred.com - new URL structure, details currently unknown
 
−
:* www.borisjulie.com - some URLs no longer work
 
−
:* www.grantvillegazette.com - all URLs changed (HTTPS)
 
−
:* www.ilona-andrews.com - many URLs have changed (HTTPS)
 
−
:* www.donatoart.com - most URLs have changed (HTTPS)
 
−
:
 
−
: URLs which may have changed structure:
 
−
:* talestoterrify.com (HHTPS)
 
−
:* farfetchedfables.com (HTTP)
 
−
:* www.strangehorizons.com (HTTP)
 
−
:* bnreview.barnesandnoble.com
 
−
:* www.michaelwhelan.com (HTTPS)
 
−
:
 
−
: Dead sites:
 
−
:* kirjasto.sci.fi (HTTP)
 
−
:* www.kirjasto.sci.fi (HTTP)
 
−
:* www.mirrorshards.org -- purchased domain, HTTPS supported
 
−
:* chrisachilleos.co.uk - empty domain (HTTP)
 
−
:* www.bpib.com - purchased domain
 
−
:* comicbookdb.com -- sold to comicbook.com
 
−
:
 
−
: [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:44, 26 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
==Dates for Aldiss / Vanguard from Alpha (Equator)==
 
−
 
 
−
The title records for Aldiss's novella [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?122 Vanguard from Alpha] and its variants [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?61952 Equator] (by Brian W. Aldiss) and [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?272041 Equator]  (by Brian Aldiss) all have dates of 1959-10-00.  However, none of these is contained in any publication having that date.  Are these dates correct?  If so, could someone please explain why? [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] 11:27, 27 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
: The dates of these variant titles as currently stated are incorrect. The reason is that we originally used the parent title's date for its variant titles. A few years later we changed the data entry standard to use the date of the earliest appearance of a variant title as its date, but a few old records still use the old convention. We update them as we find them. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:45, 27 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
::The parent was also incorrect as it was dated 1959-10-00, but the first non-serialized appearance is 1959-00-00. There are no publications with a 1959-10-00 date & the pub history of the Ace Double doesn't show it ever had a month that was removed. I have fixed all the records. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 18:17, 27 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
:::Thank you! You have saved me the trouble of submitting these edits myself. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] 13:17, 29 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== HTTPS upgrade - phase 1 completed ==
 
−
 
 
−
The core ISFDB software has been upgraded to work with HTTPS. This means that if you install the ISFDB software/database on an HTTPS-enabled server, it should work out of the box. Now we need to enable HTTPS on www.isfdb.org, which is a whole different can of worms -- see [[Development/HTTPS]] if you are interested in the technical details. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:15, 27 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Falkner Story Title ==
 
−
 
 
−
Does anyone own a copy of the 2000 Tartarus edition of J. Meade Falkner's The Lost Stradivarius? It includes a couple of short stories, and 1 was titled A Midsummer Night's Marriage, yet I found eBay UK copy which says A Midsummer's Night Marriage on copyright page, contents page, front flap and spine. Google Books has a copy of the 1896 magazine where it first appeared and it has the former title. So a look at the story's page head is needed to know if that's the title inside the book. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:06, 28 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Magazine or Anthology? ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1320181; I don't know if warning needs to be fixed by someone. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:22, 28 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
: At one point we allowed ANTHOLOGY titles to be included in MAGAZINE publications, but the software behind "Bibliographic Warnings" was not updated to reflect the policy change. Let me see what I can do... [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:49, 28 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
:: Fixed. Thanks for reporting the issue. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:05, 28 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Poul Anderson's [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?50691 The Year of the Ransom] ==
 
−
 
 
−
The entry states "A rough word count makes it 25,000 words." and guesses that it's really not a novel. I guess that ''makes'' the text a novella, and the publication a CHAPBOOK. I'd like to adapt this accordingly. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 13:59, 29 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
: Check with the PVs for a possible second count (or with whomever did this one if they are around to make sure it was done properly) and if the numbers align, let the PVs know and convert it and add notes explaining the length. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 02:49, 30 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:: And don't forget to check with the pv's of the omnibus editions, that will have to be turned to collections. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 04:44, 30 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Adding archived links ==
 
−
 
 
−
I think it would be a good idea to add a second "archive link" field for any external link fields in the database. This would allow us to include an archived version of any external links, thus preventing degradation of links in the database. The archived link could be displayed as "originallink.com (archive)". Thoughts? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:09, 30 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
: You can always just add the archived link as a regular one now... which had been done in some places (either as a second link or as the only one). The problem of course is that even if we do that, we cannot guarantee that the link will be valid - archive.org can remove contents (if the owner of the copyright requires it) and they may even go down (hopefully never but...) so not sure how useful that will be really (except to look more structured). And if it is a page that changes/adds things and not just a story for example, do we keep changing the archived link to the newest available? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:19, 30 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
::There are other archive services than archive.org, too. I often use archive.vn. It's better at capturing layouts, too. Yes, archive sites might go down, but having two possible locations increases the odds of one of them not being down. And the odds of archive.org removing a purely informational link are pretty low.
 
−
::Another possibility is adding a "Reference" section where links can be placed, and give it the ability (maybe via a drop-down menu or something similar) to indicate which items the reference supports. Then add the above archive option to those links. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:12, 30 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
::: Just because the page has some information we do use does not preclude it from having something that the owner and/or a rights owner wants out from an archived copy :) Not very likely for the kind of pages we usually link but still... :)
 
−
::: Either I am too tired or the explanation for the reference section does not make any sense... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:06, 30 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Side-Effect Cover ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?244593; I added OL ID; Archive.org's copy doesn't have any art credit on back cover unlike what note says here. I believe, judging from history, Dsorgen entered that info; he seemed a troublesome fellow and hasn't responded in years to anything, so if anyone else knows if Grace really did the cover they can chime in; Google search only brings up ISFDB with that info. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:16, 31 March 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== James Dawson / Juno Dawson ==
 
−
 
 
−
Any objections to reversing the canonical name [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?169456 here]? There are more works under the alternative name now and it is the one in use at the moment so new works will be under it. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:13, 1 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
: In the absence of any other opinion: I'm not particularly familiar with this author's work, but they have a fairly high general media profile in the UK as Juno Dawson, and in the past few days it was announced they'd written some new, again fairly high profile, Dr Who audio drama, so it seems reasonable to making that the canonical name.  (I wasn't even aware they'd published anything using the other name, FWIW.) [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 18:15, 13 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:: Not for a few years :) With no objections in almost 2 weeks, the names are now reversed. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:11, 13 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== New Terrors ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?560405; This is interesting; I stumbled across a site, booksc.xyz, and saw they had a PDF of Ramsey Campbell's Omnibus of New Terrors (Pan, 1985), which collected New Terrors 1 and 2 from 5 years earlier. Now I highly doubt that's a legit site that got permission from anyone to make that PDF, although where they got the original book from is a mystery because there doesn't seem to be any trace of it online; as far as I know there's never been an e-book version. Opening the book in "Open in Browser" mode shows a perfectly clear and complete PDF. Needless to say I printed all the stories from New Terrors 2 which were never reprinted anywhere or only in the New Terrors II American edition from Pocket, which may be even harder to find nowadays than the British edition. I was lucky enough years ago to buy the Pan New Terrors 1 (for 48 CENTS!) from The Strand in Manhattan, so I didn't need to print any stories from that. This had the happy side effect of me discovering that Christopher Priest's story "The Miraculous Cairn" was reprinted in Granta 7 (1983), so I entered an edit for that. Now the weird thing is that the back cover clearly says the book is 2.95 pounds, not 7.99 like ISFDB says; typing the title and 7.99 in Google only brings up ISFDB and locusmag.com, which I assume is where the price came from. Locus has a 1985 [Aug '96] date; there is a "date unknown" edition also on ISFDB (PV by the long-gone "Prof beard"), so maybe that 1996 printing cost 7.99; were they really still reprinting this book more than 10 years later? So I've changed the 1985 edition to 2.95, but if anyone owns any other editions there may be several in between '85 and '96; who knows, there may be ones after '96, too. It's a shame that there's countless books which have never been reprinted because of rights issues/indifference that have to be found on possibly shady sites like the one above. EDIT: I had the good sense to print the 2-page intro when I printed the stories, and it turns out that while it's dated 1985 it seems to be the intros for 1 and 2 with some minor changes. Campbell's mention of "Tolkein" in #1, per my copy, was corrected to Tolkien, and the last paragraph was deleted because it mentions "from Aickman to Wagner", which doesn't work for the omnibus. Not owning #2 I can't be sure what exactly was changed/deleted, but the mention in the last paragraph of "thirty-eight writers" surely wasn't in #2's intro. Surprisingly, there are very few photos online and none I can find of the intro for #2, so if anyone owns a copy and can provide a photo here then I can add more info to my note for the omnibus which I just made an edit for, which only talks about the changes from #1. EDIT: By random chance I saw a copy of #2 on Richard Dalby's site and title page says New Terrors Two, so title was wrong on ISFDB. I fixed it, pending approval.--[[User:Username|Username]] 19:51, 1 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
: OK, so Mhhutchins replied to my question on his board about the 1985 Fantasy Review review being attached to the original British Pan editions and not the American Pocket editions; this raises an issue, because the first 1982 Pocket edition of New Terrors 1 was reprinted in late 1984 to coincide with the release of Pocket's edition of New Terrors 2, so these editions were what was being reviewed. How best to move the reviews to those records? Also, should the Pocket editions have a series # next to them since the Pan editions have a 1 and a 2 (apologies to Lawrence Welk). --[[User:Username|Username]] 09:37, 2 May 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Propose Canonical change from L. A. Forman to Lee Andrew Forman ==
 
−
 
 
−
Not sure why [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?248304 L. A. Forman] was ever the canonical name. Any objections to this change? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 22:25, 1 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:Seems like a good idea. "Lee Andrew Forman" is definitely the most common. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:41, 2 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:: Done. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 09:03, 3 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Joel Lane Dates ==
 
−
 
 
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?11151; I found an old bibliography for the late Lane (up to 2004) on the archived midnightstreet.co.uk site; turns out many of his stories on ISFDB had wrong dates because they were first published in literary zines, so I fixed them. Most were in his first collection, 1994's The Earth Wire, and while they mainly came from well-known titles like Ambit, Panurge, and Critical Quarterly, there's 1, "The Circus Floor", which says it's from Nutshell 11 (1990). The only other evidence of this zine I can find is a partial D.F. Lewis bibliography (partial because he wrote a couple of thousand stories and probably can't remember where some of them came from) that mentions 3 stories from Nutshell, but the problem is that #10 is dated 1991. So someone's date is wrong. If any Lane experts/obscure British (?) zine collectors know what the date of #11 really is, respond here. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:01, 2 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Alternate Name summary bibliography ==
 
−
 
 
−
These three ISFDB authors represent real names of writers whose pseudonym is canonical. 
 
−
# {{a|H. H. Munro}}
 
−
# {{a|Samuel L. Clemens}}
 
−
# {{a|Samuel Clemens}}
 
−
'''Note.''' None notes the nature of the alternate name relation, such as "Real name of Saki". Is the empty Note field recommended?
 
−
<br>
 
−
'''Webpages.''' Which of the three uses is recommended? [1] H. H. Munro duplicates two links from the page under canonical name Saki. (I doubt that is commendable.) [2] Samuel L. Clemens links the entry for Clemens at SFE3, which is a cross-reference to Mark Twain at SFE3. The target is uninformative at best, and may be misleading. It's accurate, however. [3] Samuel Clemens shows no Webpages. That too is accurate, in the same respect, for SFE3 author names include only the version with middle initial L. --[[User:Pwendt|Pwendt]]|[[User talk:Pwendt|talk]] 16:38, 2 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
: Webpages and all other details go on the canonical author page UNLESS there is a reason for it to stay with the variant (aka a source for the pseudonym provenance which is described in the notes of the pseudonym for example). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:23, 2 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
−
== SFE Author Articles without a matching SFE URL in ISFDB Author Records ==
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=d+bergho&type=Name; First name likely misspelled by PV (or magazine it appeared in) and essay is in second name's record with a much earlier date. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:47, 15 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/sfe3_authors.cgi SFE Author Articles without a matching SFE URL in ISFDB Author Records] is one of '''ISFDB "Cleanup Reports" <s>(linkname under Other Pages in margin at left)</s>'''. Its status may differ from the others (eg, inactive project), as it's listed at the bottom of the Cleanup Reports page, beyond the scope of the header directory; and its preface does not explain when it is updated.
+
== Garland Library of SF ==
−
:: Revised (boldface). For anyone who doesn't know, as I didn't for much too long, that is "Cleanup Reports" in the left margin navigation menu of any ISFDB database view (not here).
 
−
:: I did fix two listings by work on ISFDB author pages, and those two are not listed now. Probably this report is a weekly or occasional "Sunday morning, US eastern time" update. --Pwendt
 
−
I infer that {{a|H. H. Munro}} appears in the report and {{a|Samuel L. Clemens}} does not because the first of those two ISFDB Alternate Name pages does not, and the second one does, display a link to the SFE3 cross-reference among its Webpages --and nothing has changed, along those lines, since this cleanup report was generated.
 
−
(Exploring the cleanup report led me to H. H. Munro and thus to the matter immediately above, [[#Alternate Name summary bibliography]].)
 
  
−
The report preface notes that it "lets moderators ignore SFE author URLs", with a couple of reasons why. What is recommended use of the report by non-moderators, especially regarding those SFE3 entries which are cross-references from what is, or should be, an author Alternate Name at ISFDB? --[[User:Pwendt|Pwendt]]|[[User talk:Pwendt|talk]] 17:04, 2 April 2022 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?8067; I made a couple of edits adding archived link, LCCN and cover image to Past Master when I noticed that there is 1 book in the series with a UK price and 1 without any price. So if anyone can fill in the missing one and add US one (moving UK to notes) for the other then everything will be uniform. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:44, 16 February 2024 (EST)
−
: Fix the ones that need fixing. If you find one (or more) which needs to be ignored, post in the Moderator Board a list of the ones that need ignoring, they will be rechecked again and ignored if that is indeed the needed action. That's valid for all reports which have the ignore capability. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:20, 2 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:: Thanks. I'll proceed thus. Eye-and-brain skim rate is not what it should be, in my opinion, but that happens to everyone. --[[User:Pwendt|Pwendt]]|[[User talk:Pwendt|talk]] 14:58, 3 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
−
== R/evolution ==
+
== Lou J. Berger ==
  
−
Submitted for your consideration. [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?370268 R/evolution] is classified as a novel. I believe it should be a collection.
+
The author has requested we change his canonical name from [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?186596 Lou J. Berger] to "Lou J Berger" (no period after the "J"). See mod note [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5878281 here]. Any objections? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 15:32, 16 February 2024 (EST)
−
# [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?784070 Blueprints for Better Worlds], similarly constructed, is classified as a collection.
 
−
# Two chapters were reprinted as short stories in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?819522 Broken Fevers]
 
−
* [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3013546 How the Carters Got Their Name]
 
−
* [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3013547 Live Forevers]
 
−
Seeking opinions before making the change and adding content. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 23:01, 2 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
: No answer - just my 2 cent: "Novel in stories" and "collection of linked stories" are always tricky and somewhat different IMO - although sometimes it is hard to find the line even if you read the things (and sometimes it is a pure marketing decision). If the individual parts are often (for some value of often anyway - literary novels with a structure like that end up split when anthologized a lot for example but that does not make them less of novels) reprinted separately, adding them as collections with a note explaining the reason is usually a good idea. One of the big question usually is "what was published first?". Think of the classical case of "Foundation".
 
−
: This is also one case where I tend to look at the author site/publisher for guideline (and even online reviews) - some are true episodic novels; some are collections in everything but name. I am fine with it either way - as long as it is documented.  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 23:39, 2 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
−
== All Work and No Play ==
+
: Checking Amazon.com's Look Inside, I see that the name was spelled "Lou J. Berger" in 2013-2014 and changed to "Lou J Berger" in 2015/2016. By now the majority of the stories use the "Lou J Berger" form of the name, so it should be our canonical name. We just need to make sure that we use the right form for the transitional (2015-2016) period. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 16:05, 16 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
I'm holding [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5272061 this submission] which would add a book by Jack Torrance (the protagonist from Steven King's The Shining) and which is just repeating lines of "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy". Despite supposedly being written by a character of a speculative fiction story, the story itself is not speculative in nature so to me this would not qualify. Thuff2000 commented that "I've written a rather extensive foreword in the book that I think should qualify which is the main reason I submitted the title here." I'd like a broader opinion on how to handle. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:19, 3 April 2022 (EDT)
+
:: Author attributions were reviewed and corrected resulting in compliance with the author's request. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 15:16, 17 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
: An interesting case. I suppose it could be argued that this is a non-fiction book consisting of an essay ("foreword") about Stephen King's work. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 09:58, 3 April 2022 (EDT)
+
== Locus on Microfilm ==
  
−
::Hi there, and thanks to JLaTondre for posting this.
+
I recently added links to the handful of random print issues of Locus that are on Archive.org, one a very early issue and the others more recent, but I just stumbled on a huge cache of microfilmed 1973-2015 issues uploaded by MicrofilmIssueGenerator so I added a link, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5893289. Not sure if this is known about already but if not I'm sure it will come in handy here for research. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:39, 16 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
::I am the 'author' and just wanted to clarify what I was doing with this book.  The universe inwhich this book exists is one where Stephen King's The Shining is a docudrama.  The first part of the "novel" was transcribed from screenshots exactly as the character typed it in the film, and the rest is fabricated in a similar fashion.
+
== Server maintenance 2024-02-18 at 11am EST ==
  
−
::The foreword dives deep into the character (of Jack Torrance), his inspirations, motivations, and general mental state; it examines many hypotheses of Torrance's thinking as he composed it: what he intended it to be, what it is about, and where may have come from.
+
The server will be down for maintenance later today (2024-02-18) between 11am and 11:10am EST. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 10:20, 18 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
::The foreword is NOT nonfiction about Stephen King, Jack Nicholson, the book, or the movie. The foreword treats Jack Torrance like Rob Reiner treats Spinal Tap.  It's fictional nonfiction--a mockumentary in book form.
+
: The server is back up. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 11:06, 18 February 2024 (EST)
−
::--[[User:Thuff2000|Tom]] 19:33, 3 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
−
::: Thanks for clarifying. It sounds like the foreword is close to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem%27s_fictitious_criticism_of_nonexistent_books Stanisław Lem's fictitious criticism of nonexistent books], which we list as short stories -- see [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?252524 this collection]. Also note that [[Template:TitleFields:TitleType]] mentions:
+
== Sword of the Samurai ==
−
:::* ... fictional essays, purporting to be written by a character in the book, as introductions or afterwords. There is no "FICTIONAL ESSAY" title type, so you have to choose whether the title is better described as SHORTFICTION or ESSAY.
 
−
::: [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 08:09, 4 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
−
::::I accepted the submission and made the foreword shortfiction (and added a note about it being a fictional essay). Thanks. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:57, 9 April 2022 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5894874; I have owned a copy since the 1980s and PV it here in 2022, copy uploaded to Archive.org last summer but not added until a few days ago, I think I got the right page count but if anyone disagrees feel free to tweak it a bit, you don't have to ask me. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:41, 18 February 2024 (EST)
 +
:I see a note in the UK edition's record here says [236] so I think they counted the illustration between the first 19 pages and the start of the novel itself. Should that count? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:44, 18 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::I would count it one way or the other, either as part of the introductory material (so, technically on [20]) or as part of the main material.  A page number on that first page of main text would have been a useful guide....  I found an eBay listing of the Puffin edition that has some interior photographs.  Not of the page in question, but the TOC and other leading material looks identical to what Archive.org shows for the edition you have.  Extrapolating that to content that follows it suggests Reginald did count that illustration as part of the main material.  Given the [236] there, what I will do is tweak your count to [236] and add a note about the illustration's appearance relative to the text on the surrounding pages. Just trying to save you an edit cycle; feel free to adjust it to be however you prefer -- I do not mean to insist on anything.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 12:07, 18 February 2024 (EST)
 +
:::Sounds good, thanks. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:18, 18 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
:::::Thanks JLaTondre. --[[User:Thuff2000|Tom]] 20:31, 9 April 2022 (EDT)
+
== Bibliographic impact of the 2023 Hugo Awards ==
  
−
== Problem with merges  ==
+
The current pre-release cover of {{A|Samantha Mills}}'s debut novel [https://www.amazon.com/Wings-Upon-Her-Back-ebook/dp/B0CVS2RDH8 ''The Wings Upon Her Back''] says "Nebula and Hugo Award Winner". On 2024-02-17 Mills disavowed the award and announced that she would have "Hugo winner" removed from future editions of the book:
  
−
[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?341855 This author] for instance. Attempts to merge result in a diagnostic message stating at the end"<type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'Compare2Dates' is not defined". The same problem with two other authors and on two different computers.--[[User:Swfritter|swfritter]] 18:23, 4 April 2022 (EDT)
+
* [https://samtasticbooks.com/2024/02/17/rabbit-test-unwins-the-hugo/ “Rabbit Test” unwins the Hugo]: ... on Tuesday I’ll send a very awkward email to my agent and editor summarizing the situation ... and figure out the logistics of removing “Hugo winner” from the ebook and future printings. The first print run will be a limited edition novelty, I suppose? Jeez.
−
: You're not alone, I've experienced the same problem. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 19:23, 4 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
−
:: Fixed. Sorry about the hassle. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:03, 4 April 2022 (EDT)
+
This may not be an isolated occurrence since, as Samantha Mills wrote (among other things):
  
−
::: Thanks!!--[[User:Swfritter|swfritter]] 18:12, 5 April 2022 (EDT)
+
* On February 14, a report written by Jason Sanford and Chris M. Barkley was simultaneously released on the [https://jasonsanford.substack.com/p/the-2023-hugo-awards-a-report-on Genre Grapevine] and [https://file770.com/the-2023-hugo-awards-a-report-on-censorship-and-exclusion/ File770]. ... we also got a look at [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rhCwKLMydCto6HvXvcqjR553DqrhTfBu/view the validation list itself], aka the tables of frontrunner nominees being vetted for the final ballot, and a horrible pattern emerged, especially in the fiction categories: there were a whole lot of Chinese nominees in frontrunner positions who just… vanished, and never made it onto the final ballot. There were so many, in fact, that if I am reading this document correctly: ''not a single fiction winner'' (short story, novelette, novella, novel, or series) would have even been a finalist if those nominees hadn’t been taken off.
 +
* There’s an indicator of why in the apology letter from the admin who leaked the emails and validation tables: “We were told there was collusion in a Chinese publication that had published a nominations list, a slate as it were, and so those ballots were identified and eliminated.”
  
−
== Villy Variants ==
+
From our perspective, this means that we will need to:
 +
* Update the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_details.cgi?78890 “Rabbit Test” Award record] to indicate that the author disavowed the award, similar to how [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_details.cgi?9534 this award record] explains that {{A|Judy-Lynn del Rey}}'s posthumous "Best Professional Editor" award was refused by her husband {{A|Lester del Rey}}.
 +
* Keep an eye on [https://www.amazon.com/Wings-Upon-Her-Back-ebook/dp/B0CVS2RDH8 ''The Wings Upon Her Back''] to make sure that the correct covers are used for the first and any subsequent editions of the novel.
 +
* Be on the lookout for possible other announcements of authors disavowing 2023 Hugo awards.
 +
* Occasionally check "Worldcon Intellectual Property" announcements. On January 30, 2024 they issued [https://www.wsfs.org/2024/01/31/announcements-from-worldcon-intellectual-property/ a statement] censuring multiple people "for actions of the Hugo Administration Committee of the Chengdu Worldcon" and said that "There may be other actions taken or to be taken that are not in this announcement." If and when they make additional statements about the Hugos awarded at the 2023 Worldcon, we may need to update our records.
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?80149; I did some edits for Sorensen's work, and while checking after they were approved I noticed "Theodora og Theodorus" says it was only in French in 2005, but there's also "Two Legends: Theodora and Theodorus" which is in 1 of his collections I did an edit for. So the original Danish was translated to English and then French. Variants aren't my thing, so if anyone wants to tackle that. EDIT: "Silvanus af Nazareth" also in French in 2005, also in his collection as "Two Legends: Sylvanus of Nazareth"; I almost missed this because first word is spelled differently. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:21, 5 April 2022 (EDT)
+
[[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:55, 19 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
: Recently fixed by Stonecreek. Thank you, Mr. S. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:20, 7 April 2022 (EDT)
+
: Earlier today {{A|Adrian Tchaikovsky}} disavowed his 2023 Hugo award for Best Series on [https://adriantchaikovsky.com/ his Web site]. The [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_details.cgi?78915 award record] has been updated. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:56, 21 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::These notes are exactly the correct action for us, I think.  If we had notes for an award year, it would probably be desirable to add something for the 2023 Hugos. Although, getting a properly neutral description of the controversy free of personal biases (and I have many in this instance), would be tricky. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== God Likes Them Plain ==
+
::: One of the challenges that the 2023 Hugos present is that it's still a developing story. What we knew 10 days ago is very different from what we know today. Perhaps we'll learn more in the future.
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?424027; Does anyone have a copy of this 1935 Eric Linklater collection? WorldCat says 1 story is titled "Coutry-Born", which is an obvious misprint of "Country-Born", the original 1934 title when it was published in The Evening Standard and reprinted in 1 of their anthologies in 1937, but my edit fixing this was rejected. It's "Country-Born" in The Supernatural Index, in a Linklater "Stories of..." on WorldCat, etc. Much info is mistitled on WorldCat, but without the source book there'll be 2 separate records for the same story on ISFDB, and I'm not varianting them because I'm sure there is no variant title, just a mistake on WorldCat's part (or whomever they got their info from). --[[User:Username|Username]] 13:07, 5 April 2022 (EDT)
+
::: For example, back in late January I came across a re-post/translation of a Chinese fan's comments about the Hugos. The post stated that the fan had been involved in the Hugo process (committee member?) and that he or she had a conflict with Chinese members of the Hugo committee with various accusations flying back and forth. At the time I had trouble parsing the post, in part due to lacking context and in part due to the quality of the translation. In retrospect it may have been related to the following email sent by Dave McCarthy on June 7, 2023 at 6:18pm (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_QqmsxQkACoYcxSx2LVqbxD39-DJI_gS/view), which says:
 +
:::* Tomorrow I have a 4 hour meeting with my chinese counterparts to look at ballot detail and determine if any ballots are to be voided
 +
::: Perhaps either this fan or other members of the 2023 Hugo committee may clarify matters at some point. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:33, 22 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Pre and Post decimal UK prices ==
+
:: It would especially be useful to note that the nomination totals and the EPH points appear to be completely unreliable, since those are noted in each nomination award record. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
I rejected [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5280395 this edit] earlier today.  The book in question has both pre-decimal and post-decimal prices as can be seen in [https://pictures.abebooks.com/inventory/22760295117_5.jpg this] photo from a sale listing. I also added the pre-decimal price per [[Template:PublicationFields:Price|this template]].  The editor complained that because the UK completed decimalization on February 15, 1971 (per our template) that this publication as dated (April 1971} was published after the conversion.  I will point out that the pre-decimal price is not in brackets as is described in our template for post conversion books that have both prices.  I did a little more digging, and looking at the edit history, I see that the publication date was altered at the same time the Worldcat and British Library identifiers were added.  Neither of those sources have the publication month, nor is there any explanation in either the notes or the moderator notes (I don't know if we had those in 2017).  This leaves us with the question of which of the two prices should we reflect in our records, or more precisely in the price field?  Since we don't have a source for the post-conversion date, I don't think we can be certain when in 1971 this was published.  Also, if the description of the pre-decimal price in brackets when published after conversion was an absolute convention, the lack of brackets would tend to support a pre-conversion publication. Thoughts? --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 18:11, 5 April 2022 (EDT)
+
::: One thing that comes to mind is that we could change the way opening sentences are phrased. Instead of the current "1674 valid ballots cast, 944 valid ballots cast in category" we could say something like "According to the [https://www.thehugoawards.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/2023-Hugo-Award-Stats-Final.pdf voting statistics] released [https://www.thehugoawards.org/2024/01/2023-nominating-and-final-ballot-statistics-published/?ref=astrolabe.aidanmoher.com on 2024-01-20], there were 1674 valid ballots cast, 944 valid ballots cast in category". It's not much, but it would at least clarify which version of the stats our records use. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:20, 22 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::::I've added your suggested text to the records in the Best Novel category.  In addition to the ballot count at the head, I've also added it to the nomination numbers at the foot.  I think it's more important there as that is where there is evidence of shenanigans. In any case, let me know if it looks good and I can update the remaining records or we tweak it if desired. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 21:26, 27 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::::: Everything looks good, thanks. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 22:40, 27 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
: Here's this, https://picclick.com/The-Ship-Who-Sang-Anne-McCaffrey-1st-UK-255387011241.html; back cover shows 3 other books by McCaffrey, all with earlier ISBN # and all with the price in pounds. So that's what they were using at this time. I was right to complain. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:42, 5 April 2022 (EDT)
+
:: I recall that award year notes has been suggested before and there may be a feature request, though I suspect that how the award tables are structured may make this difficult. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
−
: Considering that all the prices on the back cover of this book (visible in the image) are in pounds only, it looks like it was produced for after conversion only market - so as long as it does not belong to a later printing, we probably should use the pounds price and add the pre-conversion price in the notes. The brackets in our rule are possibly valid for most publishers but maybe not for all? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:19, 6 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
−
::OK. Since we've had no other input, I've restored the post-decimal price and put the pre-decimal in the notes. Thanks. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 18:09, 11 April 2022 (EDT)
+
::: Yes, indeed. {{FR|1086}}, "Change the award year field to a drop-down list", says "Create a new record type for award years. We can call it something like "award year" or "award ceremony". Once we have it, we will be able to add notes to award years. Notes can be used to specify when the awards were announced, when and where they were given, eligibility rules changes, etc." Unfortunately, as you said, it would be fairly time-consuming to implement. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:12, 22 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Fran Dorricott <-> Francesca May author relations ==
+
:: In any case, I do have one suggestion for the del Rey award record.  We currently have the explanation of the non-acceptance of the award noted in the title field of what should be an untitled award.  Perhaps we didn't have award level notes at the point that award was added.  I feel that the verbiage in the title should be moved to notes and replaced with "untitled".  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
Both of these are currently defined as pseudonyms for the other. I know I did [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5277648 one of these] on 2022-03-31, I can't see any author edit histories, but the IDs on the pseudonym table records are fairly close (35355 vs 35366) so it's not inconceivable that they were done roughly in parallel.  (Or I could just have not been paying enough attention when doing an unnecessary alternate.)
+
::: I agree. It's exactly as you said -- award records didn't have a Notes field back then. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:12, 22 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::::I've updated [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_details.cgi?9534 this] and expanded the comment as a note taking my queue from Judy-Lynn's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy-Lynn_del_Rey Wikipedia article].  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 21:26, 27 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
I assume one of the alternate mappings should be removed, but it's not completely clear to me which one should "win". The facts as far as I could gather are:
+
::::: Thanks. I have hyper-linked Lester del Rey's name and clarified that he was Judy-Lynn's husband. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 22:40, 27 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
* [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?341182 Fran Dorricott] is the author's real name (based on copyright assignation in the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?339583 Francesca May] book)
+
== Kater-Bound ==
−
* Fran Dorricott has more books to their name (3 per [https://franwritesstuff.com personal site]), although it looks like that name is used more for thrillers - only one of the Dorricott books is currently logged in the database, and that with a caveat that it may not be speculative
 
−
* The author doesn't seem to favour one of these names over the other when identifying online
 
  
−
Thoughts? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 11:26, 6 April 2022 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?22308; On all of the web there seems to be only 1 mention of Borgo Press and Kater-Bound together, https://www.lawrenceperson.com/?p=22429, although it does get a handful of hits in a text search, https://archive.org/search?query=%22kater-bound%22+%22borgo%22&sin=TXT&sort=-addeddate. This Archive.org page, https://archive.org/search?query=compton+farewell+bliss&sort=-addeddate, shows 2 editions with one being Borgo but with price on front covered and Kater-Bound sticker on back. Could this be the mysterious Borgo HC mentioned in the book's record? Also, the note about artist is wrong because he's credited on copyright page and back cover, the latter of which can be seen in the cover image. TP PV doesn't respond much so I'm asking on this board. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:09, 19 February 2024 (EST)
−
: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5276434 This one] was approved by mistake I suspect looking at the dates. Considering the numbers and that the Fran Dorricott book may not even be eligible (see my note there), I'd use Francesca May as the canonical. But either way works - as long as it is only in one direction :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:43, 6 April 2022 (EDT)
+
:The Archive.org copy is a library book, and Kater-Craft does library bindings. I believe it is not uncommon to have a retail hardcover edition and a library-binding hardcover edition of the same book. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 17:44, 19 February 2024 (EST)
−
:: Thanks. Francesca May has now been made the canonical. Had a momentary panic when the bibliography page showed up with a bunch of "Stray Publications" warnings, but I think all the titles, pubs and author records have now been switched round so that everything should be right. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 14:56, 8 April 2022 (EDT)
+
::Believe it or not, I have library hardcover versions of Ace Doubles.  All should be listed in my opinion. [[User:MLB|MLB]] ([[User talk:MLB|talk]]) 01:00, 20 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Another dupe author: Rose (Cecil) O'Neill ==
+
== Miriam Allen de Ford ==
  
−
These are on the authors who died on this day section of the homepage [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?337769] [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?196799].  It's not clear to me which of the two should be the parent record, and which the alternate: both only have a single item on their bibliography pages - although the Cecil-less one is an illustration, whereas the with-Cecil one is short fiction, so maybe the latter might be favoured for the parent record?
+
Per the ''Spaces in Names'' subsection of [[:Template:PublicationFields:Author]], Miriam Allen de Ford should be standardized as {{A|Miriam Allen deFord}}. However, we have a {{A|Miriam Allen de Ford}} alternate name which was recently edited so the notes copy the rules saying it should be standardized. Instead, I propose we merge the alternate name to the canonical name in accordance with the rules. As there are a number of verified pubs, I will point the verifiers to the this discussion, If there are any objections, then we should probably have a Rules and standards discussions. Thanks. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 18:28, 19 February 2024 (EST)
 +
:I guess it would be like calling somebody named MacIntosh being called Mac Intosh.  Still, I'll go with the majority. [[User:MLB|MLB]] ([[User talk:MLB|talk]]) 00:58, 20 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::No objection to merging, but I think the actual spelling of the name should be made clear in the notes. [[User:Linguist|Linguist]] ([[User talk:Linguist|talk]]) 04:06, 20 February 2024 (EST).
 +
:::No objection, I had three pubs, two in Croatian language I already corrected, but I have also one in Serbian language. In Serbian language names are written as they are pronounced, in this case same as written. Should I change this one as well? This is publication in question: https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2277217 {{unsigned|Debolestis}}
  
−
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_O'Neill Wikipedia] doesn't use the "Cecil" variant, whereas [https://lccn.loc.gov/n85121294 Library of Congress] implies that "Cecil" version was perhaps more widely used in print?
+
== Ruben De Anda ==
  
−
In the absence of any other opinion being expressed here, I'll make the Cecil-less version the alternate, but will happily defer to anyone else's view. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 12:10, 6 April 2022 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1476655; https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2552505; Can anyone find proof that these are the same artists? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:45, 20 February 2024 (EST)
−
: I'd actually use Rose Cecil O'Neill as canonical, considering the numbers and which one is used for the story. Plus that way if another author named Rose O'Neill ever shows up (more likely than a Rose Cecil O'Neill one), she can have the name and not an (I) -- which can go on the pseudonym instead. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:38, 6 April 2022 (EDT)
+
:I don't know. But [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?107431 The Galaxy Primes] (Ace 1976) appears also to be signed by R. De Anda. [[User:Horzel|Horzel]] ([[User talk:Horzel|talk]]) 08:52, 23 February 2024 (EST)
−
:: Thanks - now linked. I'll do the Dorricott/May one in the prior item in a day, once anyone else has had adequate chance to express an alternative opinion.
+
::Probably is but since last name is mostly covered it's hard to tell. PV Willem H. noted that it may be Rafael M. De Soto but I doubt it because he has no original cover credits on ISFDB after 1964 and this book is from 1976. There's a copy on Archive.org which I've added a link to in a PENDING edit. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:44, 23 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Should departments in a magazine be series? ==
+
== Steve Miller: RIP ==
  
−
In ''Future Life'' magazine, Carolyn Henson wrote a regular column about different space-related topics. The column was called "Alternate Space." Should this be a series? I have the same question for other regular columns in the mag. JLochhas, who added the 1980 issues, made several departments series. Should I continue?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 18:48, 6 April 2022 (EDT)
+
For those who may not have seen an announcement, [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?214 Steve Miller], co-author of the Liaden Universe, et al., died on February 20, 2024 at his home in Maine. His wife, author [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?418 Sharon Lee], posted [https://korval.com/2024/02/21/steven-richard-miller-1950-2024/ this obituary]. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 07:41, 22 February 2024 (EST)
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: Yep - columns and departments become series. That is the only way to organize them and show that they belong together and we had been doing it like that in most magazines - see [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?59214 Asimov's] or [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?59407 Locus] for example (random issues of both just as illustration). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:07, 6 April 2022 (EDT)
+
:I added photo from FantLab which is a little bigger and shows his face better than Fantastic Fiction's photo. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 17:42, 22 February 2024 (EST)
−
::Thanks!--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 23:32, 6 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Discus ==
+
== Last User Activity ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubs_not_in_series.cgi?16171; http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubs_not_in_series.cgi?28478; FantLab has 3 Asimov editions by Discus, an imprint of Avon. I replaced 2 covers, but the 3rd book was not under Discus / Avon, so I typed the title and it's under Discus Books. Almost all of the 11 Books editions are PV'd, most by Don Erikson or Bluesman, although I saw a Hifrommike65 and Kpulliam, too, so they may not have known it's an imprint. So mods may want to decide whether those should be changed to Discus / Avon. --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:13, 7 April 2022 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?895338; What does this mean exactly? There was a question of contacting this PV RedDragonBooks about something related to a mod note I made and checking their page the last answer they gave or contribution they made was in spring of 2022 but the activity at the bottom of the record linked above says a few days ago. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:03, 22 February 2024 (EST)
  
−
== Essay or Interview? ==
+
:There are two databases: The wiki and the bibliographic database. What you see for User Contributions on their user/talk page is just their Wiki edits.  What you see for Last User Activity in the verifiers' list is the date of their last activity in the bibliographic side -- the Wiki software does not know about that, only about the Wiki.  That user did some verifications on 2024-02-18 but hasn't posted anything to the wiki in the past couple of years. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 13:56, 22 February 2024 (EST)
  
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Is [https://archive.org/details/StarlogFutureLifeMagazine17/Starlog%20Future%20Life%20Magazine%20%284%29/page/n59/mode/2up?view=theater this] an essay or interview? I say essay, but the German translation [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2803779 here] is called an interview.
+
:: Just a quick note to clarify that the software that displays the Last User Activity date checks both the Wiki side and the database side. It then displays the latest date that it finds. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:36, 22 February 2024 (EST)
−
This goes for other pieces in this form, too. Is it an interview if it isn't in Q&A form?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 20:05, 7 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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: That one is out there :) Considering that more than half of the article are Toffler's exact words and it is an article based on an interview, I'd probably opt for an Interview and add a note explaining the format - that way the record will show up on Toffler's author page. But an essay also works - so no strong preference either way... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 21:52, 7 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
::Yes. If this is an essay, the German version should be also.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 00:24, 8 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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::: Yes - whatever the decision is, all translations will need to follow it. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 00:52, 8 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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::::Well, I can't change the German version [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2803779 here] or the parent version that Stonecreek created [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3013999 here] to essays. Can you help me?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 01:09, 8 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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::::: Give it a few days for other editors to have a chance to see the question. When the conversion happens, the new title will need to be added to the publication and the older one ejected -- essays cannot be converted to interviews and vice versa directly (same with reviews) :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 01:20, 8 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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:::::: Well, Rudolf and me already have answered quite lengthy on that topic [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Rudam#Was_kommt_nach_dem_Zukuntsschock.3F here]. It's an interview for sure, since even the [https://archive.org/details/StarlogFutureLifeMagazine17/Starlog%20Future%20Life%20Magazine%20%284%29/page/n1/mode/2up? table of contents] of the issue the piece initially appeared in calls it an interview. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 06:53, 8 April 2022 (EDT)
+
== Ermengarde Fisk = Evelyn E. Smith? ==
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:I'd like to hear from some others.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 13:49, 9 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== Propose Canonical change from [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?127949 Anne Holmberg] to [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?118565 Anne Avery] ==
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One of my friends pointed me at [https://www.fanac.org/fanzines/Oopsla/Oopsla10.pdf#view=Fit issue #10 of the 'zine Oopsla], specifically page 13.  The "SHORT STORIES" section says:
  
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Or even delete Anne Holmberg. Only one edition of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1043363 The Wild Swans] is credited here to Holmberg, but Amazon look inside shows it's actually credited as by Avery on the titlepage. Only the copyright is assigned to Holmberg. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 16:18, 8 April 2022 (EDT)
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  Third goes to another brand-new author, [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?1254 Evelyn E. Smith] ... is better known to fandom as the pseudonymous authoress of the "New York Letter" column in Slant--yeah, that's right, she's [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?266764 Ermengarde Fiske].
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: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?866698 This book] needs fixing - someone did not know how to add a book to a new pseudonym possibly. If the cover and the title page show Avery, it should never use Holmberg on our record. Before that, make sure the data is moved from the author name because the author will be deleted when this book disappears... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:36, 8 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:: On digging a little deeper, it looks like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Holmberg Anne Holmberg] is confused with [https://prabook.com/web/anne_forster.avery/1701772 Anne Forster Avery]. Anne Holmberg is the legal name of our Anne Avery. I'll correct this and change the canonical name to Avery. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 13:19, 10 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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::: And corrected. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 14:10, 11 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== I Maestri dell'Orrore ==
+
As I don't know what the accuracy of fan writing was like nearly two decades before I was born, I don't know how reliable this info might be.  Any objections to varianting these author records?  [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] ([[User talk:ErsatzCulture|talk]]) 13:49, 23 February 2024 (EST)
 +
: We already have a pseudonym there: Evelyn Smythe (intentional corruption of Evelyn Smyth E.?) which I think is based exactly on the note you cited above. I am not sure if we have enough evidence to connect the two Evelyn E. Smith's though - while very very likely, the name is not very uncommon. Maybe add some notes to both accounts until we find a better proof that the two are one and the same? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 14:50, 23 February 2024 (EST)
 +
:: Never mind, I looked at the fanzine itself now - you actually missed the smoking gun while quoting - that award over there is for a story that belongs to Evelyn E. Smith (Tea Tray in the Sky) - so yes, they are the same person. Connect them away. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 14:54, 23 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::: This is now done.  Had a bit of a headscratcher with Ermengarde Fiske having its own alternate names, but I think everything is now correct, with all the authors pointing at Evelyn E. Smith as the canonical, and all of the title records having parent titles with that author record.  However I wouldn't say no if someone wants to double check that everything is now as it should be.  Thanks! [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] ([[User talk:ErsatzCulture|talk]]) 13:44, 27 February 2024 (EST)
  
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https://www.fantascienza.com/catalogo/collane/NILF70090/i-maestri-dell-orrore/; Following up on my recent New Terrors post I discovered that the site mentioned there limits you to 5 downloads a day; I had just found Christopher Fowler's never-published-in-the-USA collection Sharper Knives (1992), which was reprinted as an e-book a few years ago. While biding my time I looked for reviews and came across that Fantascienza link above, which reveals that the book was reprinted in Italian in 1995, and was actually part of a 10-book series; the publisher is on ISFDB and has many series listed but not that one. So any Italian-fluent readers may want to enter those; it's an eclectic mix, but several are reprints of some 90's Dell Abyss titles, which are hard enough to find in English these days. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:57, 8 April 2022 (EDT)
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== J. Watson ==
  
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== Monkey in the Gallery ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?224483; What do you suggest is best to add to differ 1966 Thunderbirds artist from Leading Edge writer/artist? He's on Wikipedia so I'll add that link (as Jim Watson). --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 19:48, 24 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?299637; I've been adding prices and page #'s to stories appearing in the "adult" magazine Gallery, and this one was published as a separate booklet inside the issue itself. This, http://www.philsp.com/homeville/fmi/k/k04411.htm#A15, says story starts on p. 51, but can that be correct since it's not part of the overall magazine? Also, some editor wrote a note here saying 34-page booklet when it says 32-page on the cover, so that's another issue about which is correct. I wouldn't trust a porn mag to be too accurate. EDIT: A confusing case here, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45183; ISFDB lists an alternate title as "The Last Super Bowl Game" for Gallery and Run to Starlight, but this, http://agentpalmer.com/10635/media/the-written-word/the-last-superbowl-by-george-r-r-martin-is-a-science-fiction-epitaph-to-sports-as-we-know-it/, shows the title in Gallery was "The Last Super Bowl". Martin's collection Dreamsongs 02, which is on Google Books, says the "shorter version" was in Gallery and the "longer version" was in Run to Starlight and Martin's collection Portraits of His Children. I can't find any photos of Starlight to check the title. So surprisingly there's something by George R.R. Martin that is unclear even in his current superstardom. --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:42, 9 April 2022 (EDT)
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: See [[Help:How_to_separate_two_authors_with_the_same_name]] for ideas. Looks like "James Watson (1960s)" would work here and might be more helpful than "(I)". The situation is quite similar to the Jame Cooper examples given in that bullet. In light of the disparity in volume between their bibliographies, I think you could treat the James Watson from the 1980s as "more prominent/widely known in the Spec-Fic world" and leave it with no embedded disambiguation. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 12:04, 25 February 2024 (EST)
 +
::OK, thanks. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:30, 25 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Changing canaonical name of Dan J. O'Driscoll to Dan O'Driscoll. ==
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== Tem Title ==
  
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With 4 titles credited to the canonical name vs. 28 titles credited to the variant (not counting interviews which always use the canonical), this one seems fairly straightforward. Any objections to changing it? --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 12:41, 10 April 2022 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?67830; Archived link to recently uploaded Chrysalis 9 HC just added by me in a PENDING edit, PV doesn't respond much, PB has one or two active PV so if they can verify it's Hit-and-Run there, too, not Hit-and-Miss, title should be changed. I vaguely remember asking about this long ago after noticing title was different in Tem's online bibliography. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 15:32, 25 February 2024 (EST)
  
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:Looks logical indeed. No objection from me. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 13:20, 10 April 2022 (EDT)
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== The Hole of the Pit ==
  
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::Hearing no objections, I've flipped the relationship. Thanks. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 18:34, 11 April 2022 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal/Archive/Archive53#Uncanny_Banquet_and_Leisure; Exactly a year-and-a-half ago I asked about Uncanny Banquet and noted the rare novel contained in it; a copy of the Oleander Press edition including the novel with a short story and a poem was recently added to Archive.org so I've added a link in a PENDING edit. Still waiting for a copy of that anthology to show up somewhere...anywhere. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:55, 25 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Foreword Dates ==
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== Series sort order? ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?23385; http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:MartinStever; I made a few changes for Nameless Places, adding a couple of ID's, replacing the cover with a better one, and changing the 1 differing date, the foreword, to that of the book itself and just writing a note about the foreword's date. Just wanted to verify if fixing that date is the correct thing to do. 1 of the PV's is the ubiquitous RTrace but the other I don't think I ever came across before, MartinStever. Reading his bio revealed that he's a man of diverse talents who also had many battles with several mods here about how best to enter things until finally giving up and calling it quits nearly 3 years ago. God bless you, sir, wherever you may be. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:59, 10 April 2022 (EDT)
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I was looking at a [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?2278 page for a series] and couldn't figure out the basis for the order of the sub-series. First come the numbered sub-series, in numerical order. Then the 'loose' items in chronological order. Then come the unnumbered sub-series, which are neither alphabetical or chronological by any of their contained titles. Is there a particular order to them? ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] ([[User talk:Holmesd|talk]]) 09:04, 28 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Locus Dates ==
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: The only order that the display software enforces is as you described above: all numbered sub-series are displayed first and the rest are displayed randomly. I think it would be fairly easy to display unnumbered sub-series alphabetically. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?284523; I added some info for P. Tremayne's My Lady of Hy Brasil and Other Stories, including changing some dates. The book is copyrighted 1987 (it's on Archive.org) but Locus didn't see a copy until June 1988. Some of my info was accepted, but dates I changed were all set back to the 1988 date. This, https://www.sisterfidelma.com/collection.html, mentions a 1987 "uncorrected proof", and Amazon.com has a June 1987 date. Does ISFDB really date books by when Locus saw a copy? There's many listings where they mention they didn't see a copy until well after its publication date, but that doesn't mean that's when the book was published. I still think all dates should be 1987. Anyone else? --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:02, 11 April 2022 (EDT)
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::: (after edit conflict) A more thorough review discovered that Summary pages were already sorting unnumbered sub-series alphabetically. I have adjusted the software to do the same on Series pages. Thanks for identifying the problem! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
  
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:When do we ever date a publication by the copyright date? To paraphrase the help section, books are often copyrighted before actual publication. I see nothing wrong with the publication date. I do have some questions regarding some of the content titles.
+
::Since series tend to be written in order, displaying the unnumbered titles in chronological order may make more sense.  Although, sub-series wouldn't have a date and extrapolating the date from the earliest contained title would be more complex. Perhaps, numbered items followed by unnumbered sub-series followed by everything else in chronological order. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 18:34, 28 February 2024 (EST)
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:* [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?986729 My Lady of Hy-Brasil] - Date should be 1982-11-00. Suggested citation "First published in <i>Kadath</i> Vol. 1 No. 6/7, November 1982 (source title verso <i>My Lady of Hy Brasil and Other Stories</i>)"
 
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:* [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?986743 The Hungry Grass] - Date should be 1981-10-00. Suggested citation "First published in <i>The Vampire Freak Show and the Hungry Grass</i>, J. Youngson and Peter Tremayne, Adams Press October 1981 (source title verso <i>My Lady of Hy Brasil and Other Stories</i>)"
 
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:* [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?986746 The Imshee] - Add July to Wierdbook 18, publication and contents.
 
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:* [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?70230 The Hudolion] - Determine why we date Eldritch Tales, #10 1984 vs 1983.
 
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:* [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?433331 The Kelpie's Mask] - Is the correct date for Fantasy Macabre #4, July 1983 or July 1984?
 
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:Just my opinion, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 20:53, 11 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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:: Because 1987 is the date the book was published; the uncorrected proof copy at Tremayne's site's link above is 1987 and Amazon.com has a June 1987 date for the released book; Locus not seeing a copy until a year later doesn't mean it was published a year later, it means they were delayed in getting a copy. There are countless "wasn't seen until" on locusmag.com. If all books were dated on ISFDB by when they were actually published tens of thousands of dates would need to be changed because lots of paperbacks were published a month ahead or behind of the date on the copyright page and many small-press books weren't released until well after their copyright date for various reasons; every single book on here would need their actual publication date tracked down and changed if necessary, and I don't think anyone wants that. But it doesn't seem a big deal to me because there are no original stories, all reprints, so if the book itself is dated 1987 or 1988, whatever. The other info I entered, about the limitation page saying 800 copies but the front flap saying 1000 copies, was accepted, so that's more important, I think. As to the dates of the stories, I just made an edit adding that 1981 Adams Press book using Dalby's site's copy, and discovered that it and most other Adams Press books on ISFDB were Count Dracula Fan Club publications, so that was entered as a publisher series for those that were missing it, which was most of them. All the other stories came from magazines, and those dates of publication are even harder to verify than those of books. Also, as usual, when I find a full wraparound cover image I add or upload if necessary, and found such for this book on FantLab, but old front cover-only image was just reverted back to because it's supposedly a "better image"; oh well, at least when my edit is approved people who happen to click the FantLab ID link will possibly click the appropriate photo and be able to see the full artwork. --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:14, 12 April 2022 (EDT)
+
::: Could you please clarify what you mean by "items" in this case? Series may contain both title records and sub-series records. They use different, unrelated, numbering systems. For example, a series may contain 3 titles numbered "0.5", "1" and "2", as well as two sub-series numbered "1" and "2". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 19:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
  
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::: I understand your distaste for the publication note referencing Locus1. Looks like it was added long before the primary verification and all the additional secondary verifications. What do they show? P.S. Thanks for all your hard work. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 12:04, 12 April 2022 (EDT)
+
::::I intended items to mean both title records amd sub-series records, either of which may be numbered. What I was suggesting is that within a series (parent), each numbered item would display based on the numbering.  In your example, there would be a conflict as there are both titles numbered "1" and "2" and sub-series numbered "1" and "2".  Ideally, we would never assert that both a title and a sub-series should occur first in the parent series. Clearly, numbering only applies within the parent series. I believe that for numbered "items", I am not suggesting any changes to how things currently work. I had suggested a chronological sort for the remaining items based on your now corrected statement that they were displayed randomly.  Given that we're already sorting alphabetically, it's probably fine to leave things as they are, unless others think a chronological sort would be preferable. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 21:13, 28 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Sexy Weeds ==
+
== BattleTech Universe ==
  
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I discovered today that Stephen King's rare 1976 story "Weeds", which was adapted for a segment of Creepshow, was actually published originally (in the "adult" magazine Cavalier) as "Will Be Necessary to Stop the Weeds". There's surprisingly very little info online about this, so I made an edit and now that will be on ISFDB. What's even better, however, is that while researching this I came across 2 scant mentions of "Weeds" being available to read online at cavmag.com. Yes, apparently they had a website, Cavalier Magazine Online! And yes, King's story was available to read in its entirety, so I added an archived link in an edit. The site is very strange, with the usual models section and "free preview" that luckily doesn't work for me because it uses some ancient version of Flash, but while at first they seemed to only offer "Weeds", eventually they also offered King's 1977 Cavalier story "The Cat from Hell", but only in the membership section (there doesn't seem to be any mention online that they also offered this story). So somewhere locked up in the archived site is another Stephen King story; hmm, if someone still had the password, could it still be read? Nah, I doubt it, and that story's much easier to find now than "Weeds", anyway. As time went on they seemed to drop "Weeds" and just mentioned "Cat from Hell", while also offering articles from ancient Cavalier issues about Fidel Castro in 1957, Barbra Streisand in Funny Girl, and something about Bob Dylan, in addition to some old Cincinnati Reds baseball manager being fined for smoking cigars in the clubhouse, complete with a picture of him smoking a cigar with a big grin on his face. However, they seemed to go back to offering "Weeds", but decided to now only offer a small piece of it with the rest readable in the membership section, or downloadable to your smartphone at iTunes. Finally, they seemed to give up and just made a Kindle edition which included both stories plus 3 other King stories from Cavalier ("Battleground", "Suffer the Little Children", and "Trucks"), which is still on Goodreads; https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16085392-cavalier-archive-volume-1. Is that e-book eligible to be entered on ISFDB? I pray it is. Now I wonder what I'll find when I check into "Weeds" in its other "adult" appearance in 1979's Nugget. Did they have a website, too? EDIT: OH MY GOD, they did. I don't see any King stories, so no need for a link. Their site didn't seem to make a pretense of being semi-respectable like Cavalier's site, so offering articles and fiction wasn't a priority. EDIT: Well, so much for that. A nearly 10-year-old thread on thedarktower.org, a site devoted to King's works, explains the whole confusion about the title (which WAS actually "Weeds"), which even King expert Bev Vincent was taken in by. I've made some edits to return things back to what they were, but will have to look over everything afterwards to make sure they're OK. However, on the bright side, while researching I typed a phrase from the story on Google, and it turns out that 1 other site offered the story, anintrotohorror.blogspot.com, in 2012 (other reprints seem to be horror comics, so he possibly just transcribed the text from the story's illustrated version in Creepshow). So Shivers VII making a big deal about reprinting the story for the first time since the 70's wasn't exactly true since it was available to read in at least a couple of places much earlier. So anyone wanting to read it can go to that site and avoid the embarrassment of going to Cavalier's archived site and having a young lady in a skimpy dress and high heels staring at you accusingly from the top of the page while you read. --[[User:Username|Username]] 22:55, 12 April 2022 (EDT)
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The [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?1991 BattleTech Universe] series and it's sub-series all list having an Issue Grid, which suggests they are Serials / Magazines. They look like books to me. Is it a mistake in the software or entry? Might the existence of one Serial in the series propagate? ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] ([[User talk:Holmesd|talk]]) 09:12, 29 February 2024 (EST)
 +
: Yep - if there is one magazine series somewhere in the sub series inside of a bigger series, the whole set and any sunsets of it shows the grid links. It is how the software is built. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 10:00, 29 February 2024 (EST)
  
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== Chaunty ==
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:: Good catch. {{Bug|842}}, "Extraneous 'View Issue Grid' links on series pages", has been created. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:15, 29 February 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=%21+chaunty&type=All+Titles; I noticed someone uploaded a new cover image of the '81 Sphere edition of W.H. Hodgson's The Ghost Pirates, which includes a poem. However, the same poem is included in a 1909 edition by Hodgson with a slightly different title, but that publication is very hard to find, being made just for copyright purposes. So if anyone knows how the poem was titled in that edition it could either be merged or varianted; I also found out that the poem was also in the '75 Sphere edition, so I added that. --[[User:Username|Username]] 13:19, 13 April 2022 (EDT)
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== Database Backup ==
  
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== Propose Canonical change from Raymond K. Rugg to R. K. Rugg ==
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Can you please save the database with InnoDB utf8mb4 so accented and Chinese characters will show up correctly? As it now with MyISAM utf8, Иван Константинович Айвазовский shows up as &#1048;&#1074;&#1072;&#1085;&#1050;&#1086;&#1085;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1085;&#1090;&#1080;&#1085;&#1086;&#1074;&#1080;&#1095; &#1040;&#1081;&#1074;&#1072;&#1079;&#1086;&#1074;&#1089;&#1082;&#1080;&#1081;. It makes it hard to work with the database and makes it a lot larger than it has to be. {{unsigned|Catpoolfan}}
  
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According to his website, SFPA member [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?251029 Raymond K. Rugg] writes all his poetry under the name R. K. Rugg. If there are no objections, I will make that the canonical name. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 23:21, 14 April 2022 (EDT)
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: For historical reasons -- the ISFDB project started in 1995 -- ISFDB tables use "latin1_swedish_ci". You can see it if you run "SELECT TABLE_CATALOG, TABLE_SCHEMA, TABLE_NAME, TABLE_COLLATION FROM INFORMATION_SCHEMA.TABLES" in MySQL. Non-Latin-1 Unicode characters are stored in the database as HTML entities. When you see "&#1081;" (i.e. "&#1081") displayed, that's because that's what's stored in the database.
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: Unless he starts writing a lot more stories, that's not a bad idea... :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:20, 15 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:: None heard, Done [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 15:39, 18 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== Introduction as Fiction ==
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: There are plans to migrate from HTML entities to native Unicode, but it will be a major project with a number of dependencies. There is no ETA at this time. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 10:42, 1 March 2024 (EST)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?339162; The intro is mistakenly entered as fiction and has an unnecessary variant, which is also the variant name of an author from 1905. Thought I'd mention this for fixing, as I noticed it while about to enter the missing stories from Greig's other collection The Bite. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:48, 15 April 2022 (EDT)
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== I Stole You ==
  
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== Alternate of Alternate name; vs Variant of Variant title ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisheryear.cgi?60942+2017; A copy of Tripping... was recently uploaded so I added a link and the stories' numbers, there's also supposedly a copy of Ringman's collection but when I saw the red hardcover I knew that couldn't be right and it wasn't; it's a copy of some old romance novel by Jane Aiken Hodge. I checked all the usual sites but can't get contents page of TP so if anyone can or owns a copy fill in the page numbers if you wish. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 17:40, 1 March 2024 (EST)
  
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Rather than simply wait, or ask moderator [[User:Rtrace]] about the particular submission, I think it is worthwhile to review the design here.
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== Mandarin ==
  
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At the moment we have these alternate name relations, where Dearen and Kinney are real names of co-authors.
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5905095; Is anyone familiar with Mandarin paperbacks who can say why ISBN on back cover doesn't match any other Mandarin PB on ISFDB which (almost) all start with 0-7493? This book's ISBN, 0-09, seems to have been used by Cresset per online searching but there is no mention of them anywhere in it; a couple of Cresset Editions books on ISFDB do have an ISBN which starts with that. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:14, 2 March 2024 (EST)
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# {{a|238967}} Τζην Μαρτς < Gene March
 
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# {{a|116871}} Gene March < Patrick Dearen, Al Kinney, Jr.
 
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# Τζην Μαρτς < Patrick Dearen, Al Kinney, Jr.
 
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(We have this "because" I have one Tuesday-04-12 submission in the queue, [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5292511 Remove Alternate Name], which breaks [1], but that may have been passed over purposefully when "2b of 4" was approved to create [3].)  
 
  
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The first relation is true doubly in this instance, supported by the publication history and by the evident origin of Τζην Μαρτς as Greek translation of Gene March. Do we, should we, remove or retain such alternates to alternates?
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== Donkerste Dag ==
  
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As I recall, the software does not permit a Variant title of a Variant title, nor a Variant of two different titles. And here the Title relation corresponding to [1] was broken automatically by creation of that corresponding to [3] --by a single Make Variant Title. (That seems to me an unfortunate limitation regarding titles.) --[[User:Pwendt|Pwendt]]|[[User talk:Pwendt|talk]] 12:43, 15 April 2022 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5905146; Nico Richter has 1 credit on ISFDB for a German Neil Gaiman edition but here he's credited for design. Sheila Metzner is a famed artist and I don't know what Ortikol is so if anyone thinks any of them should be entered as cover artist they can do that. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 14:12, 2 March 2024 (EST)
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: No alternative names of alternatives names are allowed although some can survive if they are not cleaned up properly - when they are not cleaned up, they get flagged in a report. And yes - when you have multi-author pseudonyms, that means that the translated values of the names are not directly connected - but they are connected to the ultimate canonical names. So Τζην Μαρτς < Gene March should not be there, Τζην Μαρτς should go to the actual canonical names. Trying to do anything else just creates more work for someone else down the road. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:48, 15 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:: PS: I broke the faulty connection and now all looks as it should. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:49, 15 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== A Book of Faith ==
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== Shadow Regions ==
  
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Does [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?184185 A Book of Faith] qualify for inclusion in the ISFDB? It has sat untouched for quite a while. If it does belong, I will correct the pub type, it is an anthology. Add the 1976 1st US edition and add the contents, if possible, to both. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 13:39, 15 April 2022 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295434; The woman who ran the publisher whose imprint put out this anthology, Tammy Perron, apparently was a crook who didn't pay most of the authors or even give some of them copies which is detailed in the link from Absolute Write that I added some time ago. In September 2023 some mysterious person uploaded a copy on Archive.org and it was finally added a few weeks ago (I stumbled on it completely by accident) so I've added a link in a PENDING edit along with the price and the stories' numbers. Maybe it was one of the authors using their own copy because this seems a very rare book with WorldCat not finding any copies; there's only 1 sad review on Goodreads where one of the authors crows about having a story in it...little did he know. According to ISFDB only 3 of the 20 stories have been reprinted since it came out nearly two decades ago so if anyone was interested in reading it you should do so because you never know if old Tammy may crawl out of the woodwork to have it taken down. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:55, 2 March 2024 (EST)
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: See the note in the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?5825 author page]. [https://www.amazon.com/Book-faith-Elizabeth-Goudge/dp/0698107055 Amazon] says "This is a collection of poetry and prose which comprise the favourite passages on the subject of faith of the novelist, Elizabeth Goudge. The passages include selections from the Bible, George Herbert, Julian of Norwich, Rainer Maria Rilke, Leo Tolstoy and Gerard Manley Hopkins." which makes it very much NOT ours. I vote for deleting it however there is the question of her being possibly above threshold. However - even if she is, as this is an anthology edited by her and NOT a collection of her works, I still think it does not qualify even under the threshold exception. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:12, 15 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:: Removed by a vote of 2-0, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 11:12, 19 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== John Varley author photo ==
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== Adam L. G. Nevill canonical name ==
  
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The author photo for [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?59 John Varley] is a broken link. It is hosted on (what I assume is) his personal site, varley.net. That site is up, so I assume it's just a case of the site being reorganized and old URLs being broken.  He does have some photos on his site which might be usable [https://varley.net/about/cirocco/ example].
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I think it is time to swap the canonical name [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?134040 here] to Adam L. G. Nevill. Any objections? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 15:18, 4 March 2024 (EST)
  
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However, I don't see varley.net on [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Image_linking_permissions#List_of_sites_granting_permission the list of sites that can be linked to for images]. Does anyone know if permission was granted in the past, or if this broken URL should be removed (or ideally replaced with another image)? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 16:57, 15 April 2022 (EDT)
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: We have 8 book-length works as by {{A|Adam Nevill}} and 8 book titles as by {{A|Adam L. G. Nevill}}. All books published over the last 5 years have appeared exclusively as by "Adam L. G. Nevill". SHORTFICTION: 8 as by "Adam Nevill" and 27 as by "Adam L. G. Nevill".
  
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: I replaced it with the cool photo of him on Fantlab, which was obviously taken when he was young judging by the 70's porn 'stache; his Wikipedia photo from 1992 creeped me out until I realized that wasn't his bare belly but rather his leg. --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:42, 15 April 2022 (EDT)
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: Given the numbers and the timeline, I think it's fair to say that "Adam L. G. Nevill" is the most recognizable form of his name within the genre as of 2024. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 16:19, 4 March 2024 (EST)
  
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:: According to the Author Edit History page (moderator-only), the image was added in 2007, long before we had yellow warning. Let me check the cleanup reports to see why it's has been flagged. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:19, 15 April 2022 (EDT)
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== The Under-People ==
  
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::: Apparently the answer is "because our ''URL cleanup report'' is limited to cover scans." Oops! I'll create a report for author images tomorrow. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:28, 15 April 2022 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3046564; https://archive.org/search?query=the-under-people&sort=-addeddate; No reason for this to be here, it's one of dozens of junk science "non-fiction" books by Norman/Steiger published back in the day. I think it should be deleted. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:52, 4 March 2024 (EST)
  
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:::: Done. The data (76 authors) will become available tomorrow morning. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:35, 16 April 2022 (EDT)
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== Collection contents question ==
  
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== Is archive.org a publication site? ==
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When adding contents to a collection which is authored using a variant name, if there is no indication to the contrary, should all the content titles be attributed to the variant author name and then be made a variant of the canonical author name titles if they do not exist? Example: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?804222 The Witching Hour]. The collection author is James Gunn. The copyright page shows the content copyrights as by James Gunn. The included content titles only exist as by the canonical name James E. Gunn. Should these be changed to being authored by James Gunn and then made into variants? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 09:28, 5 March 2024 (EST)
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: Yes. Remove the three fiction titles, add the three new titles and variant to the canonicals. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 09:57, 5 March 2024 (EST)
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::Done. Thanks.[[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 11:05, 5 March 2024 (EST)
  
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Until recently, all of the 'books' I've seen and used on archive.org have been scans that I've treated as images of a published work. I've run across several works now, like [https://archive.org/details/HowDidWeFindOutAboutRobots-English-IsaacAsimov this] which are not scans of actual books, but scans of documents with the same (reformatted) text and images. There is no publication information in the document, and nothing in the archive.org metadata beyond the collection it is part of.
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== Hautala Covers ==
  
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Does this constitute a (possibly illegal) e-publication? I've been ignoring them, but finally had to use one as a source of information (to verify an illustration was used on the cover). ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 12:07, 16 April 2022 (EDT)
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I was entering edits for Rick Hautala books, found Jacobus signature on Moon Walker so Tim Jacobus was entered as the artist; Little Brothers, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?20465, has a name or initials on the lower right, can anyone find out who that is? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:45, 5 March 2024 (EST)
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:No, the Internet Archive is not a publisher. It is basically a library that allows anyone to add content. On the work you link to, the uploader is listed on the bottom right of the page. I assume they created it, but it's possible they just uploaded it. The Internet Archive does allow you to flag works that are problematic, but how stringent they are in following up on that, I don't know. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 12:20, 16 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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::OK, they're not a publisher. But does the presence of this document on archive.org constitute it as being 'published'? "Internet-based publications which are downloadable as electronic files in any number of ebook formats (ePub, Mobi, PDF, etc)." per [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Policy ISFDB Policy]? (Although you have to question any definition of 'published' which includes the word in all its qualifications).  ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 12:45, 16 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== Hampton ==
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== ISFDB Server downtime -- 2024-03-06 at 6pm ==
  
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/Theorizing-Fandom-Fans-Subculture-and-Identity-Edited-by-Cheryl-Harris-PB-1998-/114093428738; I fixed publisher to differ it from the old 40's British Hampton and added the intro from eBay, but this may not belong here; if it does, contents are fully listed, if badly photographed. PV long-gone and unlikely to come back judging from some of his messages. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:28, 16 April 2022 (EDT)
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The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance on 2024-03-06 between 6:00pm and 6:15pm EST. Both the database and the Wiki will be unavailable. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:13, 6 March 2024 (EST)
  
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== Application for self-approval status, Rosab618 ==
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: The server is back up. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:05, 6 March 2024 (EST)
  
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I formally request self-approval privileges, too. --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 12:16, 17 April 2022 (EDT)
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== Simulacrum ==
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:Support. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 20:05, 17 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:Support.[[User:Kraang|Kraang]] 23:34, 20 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:Support. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 09:09, 21 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:Support. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:01, 21 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:Support. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 11:26, 21 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:Support. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 15:07, 21 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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::Thank you all! --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 00:21, 22 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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=== Outcome ===
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Tonight I accidentally ended up on the archived SpecFicWorld site which used to be a major hub of speculative fiction but seems to have entirely disappeared from the modern web (whatever you do, don't type specficworld.com on Google and click the link whose description is "Daftar Situs Agen Judi Slot Online Terpercaya Resmi 2023"; that will NOT lead you to what you're looking for). Only issue #9 of Simulacrum, edited and published by the guy who ran the site, Doyle Eldon Wilmoth, Jr., has an archived PDF link but while searching, as I usually do, for random text from an archived story on Google to try and find out if there are any modern sites that still include it I got one hit, the late Tanith Lee's site daughterofthenight.com, because that issue included a reprint of a story by her from Interzone Magazine. That led me to this, https://archive.org/details/@zatoichi01?query=simulacrum&sort=title, which, according to Galactic Central, is the entire 14-issue run. I rarely enter magazines but any self-moderators who don't have to wait for approval can probably do these quickly without much trouble since the contents are a mixture of reprints which will need importing and originals (or at least they're not on this site). There are many well-known authors and artists included. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:59, 7 March 2024 (EST)
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:I'll take a look at it and see what I can do. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:48, 8 March 2024 (EST)
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:I have through issue 10 entered. I'll finish up with the remaining four later. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:35, 8 March 2024 (EST)
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:I've entered all 14 issues now. You can see them [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?72797 here]. I did not combine the years into editor series because there are only 14 issues so leaving them all separate makes it easier to get to them (one less click-through). ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 18:32, 12 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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The self-approver flag has been set on the account. Congratulations! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:09, 22 April 2022 (EDT)
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== Neglected moderation ==
  
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== 2 million titles reached ==
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Last time I changed something in ISFDB it took days to get a single non-controversial change accepted with hundreds of pending changes. Now it takes weeks with thousands of pending changes. When looking a the recent changes I see lots of self acceptance and accepted automatic changes, but only little moderator activity.
  
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[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/stats.cgi?4 For anyone who cares about these things :-)]
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Remembering that it takes at least 4 or 5 rounds to add all information for a translated book that amounts to waiting multiple months for a single book.
  
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I'd noticed this milestone was approaching a few weeks ago, and last weekend's database backup file was 700 short of 2m, so this was reached some time in the past 7 days.  I don't think any particular record can be (easily) identified as title #2000000, given how titles can be merged and deleted.  (The incremental numeric title IDs are currently in the low 3-millions, which I guess gives an indication of how many title records have been removed for those sorts of reasons.) [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 17:20, 17 April 2022 (EDT)
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If you don't want contributors anymore then say so clearly! ATM I'd wonder if you find people sticking with ISFDB for a longer time with that situation.
  
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: Back when the ISFDB database was hosted by a third party ([https://www.tamu.edu/ TAMU], I think), the database administrator did something that resulted in a few hundred thousand record IDs getting skipped. I don't remember whether it affected both publication IDs and title IDs, but I remember someone commenting on it and the administrator saying that he didn't expect anyone to notice or care. Clearly he didn't know how detail-oriented bibliographers can be :-) [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:18, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
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To give you an indication how this should go: I added a new word to Wiktionary, it took 4 minutes for first reaction and 1:15 to reach the final entry.
 +
--[[User:Stoecker|Stoecker]] ([[User talk:Stoecker|talk]]) 16:31, 8 March 2024 (EST)
  
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== Ylva ==
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: Longer approval times have definitely been a problem lately. Currently we have 1976 pending submissions, 1137 of them by [[User:Username]] (many are straightforward additions of archive.org links to publication records), 124 by [[User:Fixer]] (a robot account) and the remaining 715 are by other editors.
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=ylva+sp&type=Name; I guess they're the same except for missing symbol over a and language differences; variant if anyone wants to. --[[User:Username|Username]] 21:00, 17 April 2022 (EDT)
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: That said, the ISFDB editing process is very different from what Wikipedia and its offshoot projects use. The latter are much easier to edit, but the quality of the end product varies tremendously. I wrote/rewrote dozens of Wikipedia articles in the mid-2000s, but eventually concluded that trying to keep articles accurate and coherent was going to be prohibitively time-consuming. I occasionally peek to see what has happened to them and their current state is pretty bad. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensheviks is full of confused nonsense.
  
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== Nigel Kneale birthdate disputed ==
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: We added the ability to self-approve a few years ago and we are slowly expanding the number of editors who can do so. Hopefully it will help matters going forward. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:56, 8 March 2024 (EST)
  
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We (and SFE, and a Guardian obit) have 18th of April, but (as of recent edits) Wikipedia has the 28th.  Raising this to see if the consensus is that we should follow suit.  Background:
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:: Well, my request to do so was simply ignored. --[[User:Stoecker|Stoecker]] ([[User talk:Stoecker|talk]]) 10:10, 16 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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* [https://twitter.com/SFRuminations/status/1516116548913668099 Tweet that brought this to my attention]
+
::: Nominations require support from other editors/moderators before they can be approved. If a nomination doesn't gain enough support, it is not approved. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:01, 16 March 2024 (EDT)
−
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nigel_Kneale#Date_of_birth_disputed Wikipedia discussion that lead to the change there]
 
−
* [https://twitter.com/MrGeetsRomo/status/1510211587319209986 A (slightly) earlier Twitter discussion about this]
 
  
−
At the least, I guess this should have a note mentioning the dispute over dates.
+
:::: Which is an endless loop. Because moderators don't care I want self-moderation. But for that I need moderators to care which they don't. An unreachable goal. --[[User:Stoecker|Stoecker]] ([[User talk:Stoecker|talk]]) 10:05, 23 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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[[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 14:35, 18 April 2022 (EDT)
+
== Heide Oberheide ==
−
:I've updated his birthdate to match that found in the published biography. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:15, 18 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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:: Thanks. I cc-nudged SFE in one of the Twitter convos so they can make a similar edit if they so choose. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 16:31, 18 April 2022 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?127989; I left a PV a note telling them that a T. Canty credit for Parke Godwin's novel Beloved Exile was actually by Oberheide so that will need fixing but another problem I found is that her page at The Paperback Palette says she was born in Canada in 1957, both very different than what ISFDB says. So does anyone know what the real info is? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 22:48, 9 March 2024 (EST)
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:::Looks like they updated it, with a note indicating it is sometimes incorrectly listed as the 18th. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:59, 27 April 2022 (EDT)
+
:Found [https://www.heritage.nf.ca/articles/arts/heidi-oberheide.php this] and [https://www.arts.wa.gov/artist-collection/?request=record;id=2193;type=701 this], which both agree on 1943 and Germany and have enough differences that neither seems to be the source for the other.  They both strike me as fairly authoritative, especially that first one. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 11:23, 10 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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== Mary Sutherland ==
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== Tales of Terror ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2080567; I've been adding links to stories on the old archived Whispers of Wickedness site, ookami.co.uk (weirdly, there's a small handful online now which they saved at the authors' request), of which there are a couple of hundred, although not many are on ISFDB. However, Kate Farrell, who is something of a name these days, published 2 stories there. Mea Culpa was OK, but My Name is Mary Sutherland wasn't because she later expanded it into a PS Publishing novella, but the version in her collection is the original short story. Someone erred and the story is called a novella even though it's 8 pages long, so some unmerging or whatever is needed, after which I'll add the link to the short story's record. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:17, 18 April 2022 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?291626; I added a link to the back cover image on Bookscans in a PENDING edit and noticed there are some copies on eBay which show the first page, 5, with "The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar" as a title, which means this shouldn't really be a novel but rather a collection of Poe stories adapted by Sudak. Does anyone own a copy who can verify the page numbers of the other stories so they can all be entered? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:13, 13 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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== Annihilators ==
+
== Cover artist data entry rules updated ==
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?106821; After being entered in the very early days of 2007, I added the cover image last December; today I noticed there's a copy on Archive.org added in Dec. 2020, and it turned out to be a higher-priced Canadian edition so I entered it. However, there's a signature near the bottom next to the man's leg that I can't make out (HARMON?); the few Fawcett Gold Medal / Ballantine books on ISFDB that have cover artists entered don't match what this looks like at all. So does anyone know? --[[User:Username|Username]] 09:23, 20 April 2022 (EDT)
+
Please note that the "Artist" section of [[Template:PublicationFields:CoverArt]] has been updated to reflect current practices. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:02, 14 March 2024 (EDT)
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: I'd have guessed J. Rush. There is such [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?25959 an artist], but he doesn't seem to sign his covers (possibly [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/a/aa/DNCFTHHGTS1983.jpg this]). ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 16:56, 20 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== ISFDB license update ==
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== The Message ==
  
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The ISFDB ''data'' (as opposed to the software) is currently made available under [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/ the Creative Commons 2.0 Generic (CC BY 2.0)] license -- see [[Creative Commons License]] for details.
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1471825; Obscure author and publisher but not obscure enough that it didn't get a Chinese translation, https://archive.org/search?query=brockman-robin&sort=-addeddate, in case anyone fluent wants to enter that; just don't title it The MASSAGE like the uploader did. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:37, 14 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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If you scroll to the bottom of the linked Creative Commons page, you will see the following note:
+
== YouTube audiobooks in or out? ==
  
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: A [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ new version] of this license is available. You should use it for new works, and you may want to relicense existing works under it. No works are automatically put under the new license, however.  
+
I've placed [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5852793 this submission] on hold because I'm unsure if YouTube audiobooks should be included here since they are generally not downloadable (instead being streamed). The [[ISFDB:Policy#Rules of Acquisition|rules]] include audiobooks, but also exclude "[w]orks published in a web-based publication and available exclusively as a Web page" (which is pretty much what a YouTube video is), and they say nothing about podcasts. Thoughts? Should this be a [[RS|Rules and standards]] discussion? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:42, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
: They are out under the exclusion as they are not downloadable. However we need to extend the Audio-book section of the inclusion section to match the ebooks/electronic publication one above it a bit - especially around podcasts which are not considered magazines for example. So maybe starting a discussion to clarify what audio-materials we want to index is the best choice (while keeping that one on hold until we decide what we want to do) :). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 15:09, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
 +
::Okay, moved it [[ISFDB:RS#Clarifying the Audiobooks entry|over there]]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:33, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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The [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ "new version"] is "Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)" and appears to be essentially the same as the old version. The current plan is to upgrade to it in a few days. Can anyone think of a reason not to? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:24, 20 April 2022 (EDT)
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== Barcodes with prices hiding in plain sight ==
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:Works for me, since I was the one who suggested it. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 11:25, 21 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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:: Done. The new license icon/verbiage should be visible at the bottom of the navigation bar on the left. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:25, 22 April 2022 (EDT)
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A lot of printed books have prices on their back covers hiding in plain sight. If you look at a barcode on the back cover, next to the ISBN, usually over the smaller barcode next to the ISBN one, there is a number sequence - for example 51595 or 51699. That means $15.95 / $16.99 (5 is the code for $, the rest is the price). The first example is from a book I pulled from my shelf (not genre), the second is from [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0982095031 an Amazon book]. As back covers are very often visible in Amazon (separately or as part of Look Inside), that may help with adding prices (with an appropriate note) even when Amazon and other retailer have their own ideas on what the price may be (or at the very least it can serve as a confirmation for the Amazon price). It is not there for all books (90000 is a very common code up there) but for the books that have it, it is as good as the old printed prices.
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:::We should also update the links at the bottom of the wiki pages that point to the old one. There's an icon that says "CC Some Rights Reserved" and another one in plain text with the wording "Content is available under Attribution" ("Attribution" is linked). ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:22, 22 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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::::The icon is updated with [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgCopyrightIcon this] (for the version we have). See also [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgRightsIcon this]. See [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgRightsText this] for the rights text. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:55, 22 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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::::: Done. Some things had to be tweaked to accommodate our version of the MediaWiki software, but everything appears to be in order. If anyone comes across any issues, please let me know. Thanks! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:56, 22 April 2022 (EDT)
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I propose to add this tidbit of information to the [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Template:PublicationFields:Price Price field help]. Meanwhile, I am leaving it here for information :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 17:21, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
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::::::Looks great. Thanks! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:39, 25 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== Santoro Collection ==
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:Good idea to add this to the Help. I have sometimes used this for prices. You might like to expand the note to explain other currencies. The smaller 5 digit barcode is the supplementary section of the barcode and contains a EAN-5 code. The first of the five digits is a currency code. If the first digit is 9, that means the supplementary section does not contain price information. It's explained in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EAN-5 this Wikipedia article]. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:28, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
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:: Yep - we should add all the codes when we are adding the note to the help page. Thanks for the link to the Wiki page - I knew it was there, I did not think to look it up earlier today :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 18:41, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?419478; I've done some edits for this book and noticed just now that either the page count is wrong or the stories' numbers are wrong, because unless those "final words" run for dozens of pages something's off. Can't find anywhere with photos of contents, so maybe someone here owns it. --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:10, 23 April 2022 (EDT)
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::: I agree that adding a section about EAN-5 codes to [[Template:PublicationFields:Price]] would be useful. We could list  the commonly used first digits:
 +
:::* 0 and 1 -- UK
 +
:::* 3 - Australia
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:::* 4 - New Zealand
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:::* 5 - US
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:::* 6 - Canada
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::: and explain special pseudo-price values, i.e. that "9999" means "100.00 or more" while "90000" means "no price given". We could then link to the Wikipedia article or an industry Web page for other scenarios. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 19:06, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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== User privileges clarified on User Search and Contributor Statistics pages ==
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== Webzines to include? ==
  
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User privileges are now spelled out on User Search and Contributor Statistics pages. Instead of "Moderator: Yes/No" columns, they now have "Privileges: Bureaucrat/Moderator/Self-Approver/Editor" columns. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:55, 23 April 2022 (EDT)
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Hello. I have two new pub submissions on hold as they pertain to new webzine entries. Do we want to include these?
 +
* Small World City: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5776649], [https://smallworldcity.com/ website].
 +
* Kalpabishwa: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5884972], [https://www.kalpabiswa.in/ website].
 +
Looking through the contents, I say we can include those. Not sure how long-lived these are going to be though... Comments/suggestions from other editors & moderators whether to include or not? (didn't look for past discussion where webzine inclusions were debated...) [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 15:35, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
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: Both produce issues and both are genre -zines. So they are eligible under the "Webzines, which are defined as online periodicals with distinct issues (note that online periodicals without distinct issues are not considered webzines)." rule. How long they survive is irrelevant - even if they produce a single issue, they are in. However, these records will need some massaging post approval :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 15:41, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
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:: Thought so. The help text says to post and query the editor community - we may want to update that and instead clarify that if a webzine has distinct issues, it is in by default? [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 16:09, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
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::: Probably an oversight (we forgot it was there?) after we changed the ROA awhile back to include these. Which of the help pages?
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::: PS: Note that awhile back we even dropped the requirement for the webzine to be genre allowing non-genre ones to be added as any other non-genre periodical (with only genre contents indexed). So yep - a webzine with issues is always in under the genre magazine rules or the non-genre periodical ones. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 16:22, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
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:::: [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Screen:NewPub#Format Here] - see '''webzine''' in that section. [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
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::::: Ah, the one place I did not look at. :) Yep - that needs an update. I will start a discussion so we can get the language crafted. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
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::::: [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Rules_and_standards_discussions#Formats_help_pages Here we go] - the proposed new language. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:26, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
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:::: [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Policy#Rules_of_Acquisition Rules of Acquisition] has it as you mention above - we may want to add non-genre periodicals role there explicitly. [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
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::::: We do not have them called out in the print periodicals section either but if you think we should clarify that across the board, I won't object. Let's finish the audio-formats discussion we are currently having about changes in the same section of the ROA over in R&S and then I will initiate a discussion about this. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
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:::: As an aside, I must say that I couldn't find the ROA immediately - I think it is an important section of the rules. Shouldn't we be adding a link on the main help page? [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
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::::: I know to look under Policy but you are right, it needs to be a lot more visible [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page here] - either as a sublink under the ISFDB Policy link or on its own in the same section. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
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::::::I've added a specific link to it on [[Help:Contents]], which is found at the top of most help pages. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:18, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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== 2022-04-23 - server issue ==
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== ISFDB:Verification requests ==
  
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Al and I are currently investigating an apparent problem with the ISFDB hardware. It's not affecting regular database operations at the moment, but we may need to take the server down for maintenance later tonight. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 18:09, 23 April 2022 (EDT)
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The [[ISFDB:Verification requests]] board is not used much anymore. It seems [[ISFDB:Help desk]] and this board have pretty much supplanted it. Do we want to discontinue it? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:17, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
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: How about we can turn it into a broader board instead: "Assistance needed/Project Assistance Required/Something along these lines" for example - when an editor starts a project and notices other things that need adding/fixing or finds a source that may be useful and is unable/unwilling to work through it, they can request assistance there. Looking at CS, about half of the posts there in the last couple of years are from that nature and they choke the actual discussion threads and make it very hard for people to notice that something was posted in the discussions. It will be the counter-part of the Help Desk - come to the Help Desk if you want help getting the work done and learning how to do it; come to this board to post a project that needs work but you cannot/don't want to work on. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 14:59, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
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::I'd be fine with that. I agree this board has gotten rather full lately, making it hard to keep track of things. So maybe change the title to [[ISFDB:Assistance requests]] or something? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:11, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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: The investigation is still ongoing, but there is no ETA for now. The site may have to be brought down for maintenance within the next hour or two. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 09:04, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
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::: I like the idea. "Assistance requests" may be a bit too narrow for what we are trying to define, but it's the closest that I can think of at the moment. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:46, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
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:::: I like "Assistance Requests". If we ever come up with a better name, we can rename and forward. And we have the text under it to add a sentence that describes the scope better. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 15:53, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
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::::: "Help Wanted" ? ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] ([[User talk:Holmesd|talk]]) 09:47, 23 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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:: I am about to take the site down for maintenance. Unfortunately, there is no ETA at this time. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 09:19, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
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:::::: I think that there is potential for confusion between "Help desk" and "Help Wanted". Ideally, whatever name we come up with should clearly differentiate between the two boards. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 10:08, 23 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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::: The hosting company has resolved the issue and the server is now back up. Sorry about the inconvenience! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:05, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
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:::::::Maybe "Research Requests" or "Research Assistance"? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:45, 24 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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:::: Sunday morning I was checking my approved edits when the site suddenly went down; it usually does a few times a day for a few minutes at a time, assumedly because the site is updating. --[[User:Username|Username]] 22:46, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
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:::::::: I like "Research Assistance". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:13, 24 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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::::: The ISFDB site is typically inaccessible between 9:30am and 9:35am (give or take a few minutes) every morning server (EDT) time. That's when the daily backups run. The site is also slow between 1:00am and 1:05am Monday-Saturday and between 1:00am and 1:20am Sunday morning. That's when the nightly and weekly cleanup reports are regenerated. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:36, 27 April 2022 (EDT)
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(unindent) Are there any objections to changing [[ISFDB:Verification requests]] to [[Research Assistance]]? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:12, 4 April 2024 (EDT)
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: I'm okay with that. [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 06:10, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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:::: When hours had gone by without it working I knew there was something very wrong going on; being suspicious, I thought 1 of several people on here who I've argued with had worked their way up to running the site and found a way to block me; --[[User:Username|Username]] 22:46, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
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:: If there are no objections, I will ask Nihonjoe to make the change tomorrow. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 16:50, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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::::: We have a [[ISFDB:Policy#Blocking_Policy|Blocking Policy]] for offenses like vandalism, personal attacks and disruptive behavior. The term "blocking" as used in the policy refers to preventing users from posting on the ISFDB Wiki. There is nothing in the ISFDB software that would let a moderator or a bureaucrat prevent a user from accessing the ISFDB database proper. When the database is not accessible, it's invariably a technical issue of some sort -- either with the ISFDB server or with some part of the internet between the user and the ISFDB server. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:36, 27 April 2022 (EDT)
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:::De we want it to be [[ISFDB:Research Assistance]] to [[Research Assistance]]? The other can be a redirect. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:54, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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:::: however, typing the words "ISFDB-is-down" on Google brought me to this, http://isfdb.blogspot.com/, where I saw it wasn't just me (just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you). Most of the entries have no comments or a few related to the server issues, but there is 1 entry, January 3, 2015, which has way more comments than the others, and the last comment was written years after the others; an author, Priscilla Lowell, asked for help contacting someone and entering her work here, and looking at her record it seems to have been entered, but there is an interesting issue with 1 of her interviews, in that the last 2 were published in the well-known Thrust, but the first was in a very obscure publication, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?421597. The record hasn't been touched in nearly 9 years, so if anyone familiar wants to look at it and possibly add info I thought I'd mention it. --[[User:Username|Username]] 22:46, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
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:::: Probably [[ISFDB:Research Assistance]] in order to stay consistent with the majority of other "major" pages. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:05, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
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:::::If you meant me, I'm sincerely flattered. --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 03:34, 26 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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:::::: Let's not contaminate the Community Portal with inter-editor disputed. If you have a complaint about an editor's behavior, please post it on the Moderator Noticeboard. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:40, 27 April 2022 (EDT)
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::::: Since there are no objections, please feel free to go ahead and move [[ISFDB:Verification requests]] to [[ISFDB:Research Assistance]] when you get a chance. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 13:45, 6 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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== Any projects? ==
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::::::Moved! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 11:31, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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Hello, all! I just gained the rank of self-moderator, but now I don't know what to do with it. Advice, please? (I won't swear I'll take it.) Thank you! --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 02:22, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
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::::::: Thanks! I have updated the main Wiki page and everything looks good. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 11:37, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
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:::::::: The Description up in the panel at the top of all the community boards still say "Help with bibliographic, image credit, and other questions which require a physical check of the work in question.". [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:49, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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: Well, we have over 300 [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup.cgi cleanup reports]. Most of them can be accessed by non-moderators, although they can't mark records as "ignored". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:09, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
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::::::::: Updated, thanks! The new wording is "Help with bibliographic projects", which is a bit bland and non-specific, but I couldn't think of a better way to summarize the purpose of the new board. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:49, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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:: Just ran across [http://www.bookscans.com BookScans.com], a site collecting vintage book covers. It's organized by publisher and deals with waaay more than speculative fiction. I was thinking about trying to correlate to the ISFDB to see if they had images for books we didn't have images for, or even books we don't have (they sometimes have multiple images when there are multiple printings (i.e. changes in cover such as prices). If you don't have a local copy of the database, searches based on publisher can be used to generate working lists to match to their images. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 21:54, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
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== Jim/James Burns ==
  
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== Another Art ID ==
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I just added a link and did a few other things for the 33rd YBSF edition, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2012677, and searched for others with James Burns as cover artist; only 34th came up, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2209443, but as can be seen PV of TP and HC entered it differently. So maybe consensus about which is "better" should be reached and credits merged. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 18:45, 27 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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I doubt anyone knows, but I'm trying to identify the creator of this illustration for Chuck Palahniuk's "Guts", in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?896002 ''Playboy'', March 2004]. Can anyone help?
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== Lovecraft Collaborations Book ==
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[https://ia803201.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/17/items/playboy-history/Playboy%202004/3%20-%20March%202004_jp2.zip&file=3%20-%20March%202004_jp2/3%20-%20March%202004_0080.jp2&id=playboy-history&scale=4&rotate=0 Here] it is. --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 04:47, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== PageFree CD ==
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I was starting to add the audio book edition of {{T|2610309|this title}} and discovered that publisher has provided a copy of the pdf version of the book.  While we don't have a record for the pdf (it has a different ISBN than the eBook), there are several discrepancies between it and our records.  I also have questions other questions about how this title is reflected and while none of the publications are primarily verified, there have been several editors who have touched these records.  I thought I'd reach out for comments before proceeding with changes.
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# We have the title as an ANTHOLOGY and list both the editor and Lovecraft. All the stories are credited to Lovecraft with various co-authors.  Personally, I feel that these sorts of collection of collaborations are better typed as COLLECTION as was done with {{T|34634|this title}}.
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# The title page lists the credits as "By H.P. Lovecraft" over "Edited and Annotated by Finn J.D. John" in smaller type.  We have both names in the author field.  Since we have this as an ANTHOLOGY, this labels them both as "Editors".  Lovecraft clearly didn't edit this book.  As I feel this should be listed as a COLLECTION, I also feel that only Lovecraft should be listed in the author field.  If the consensus is that it's an ANTHOLOGY, then we only list John.
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# The stories are listed with both Lovecraft and his co-author on their title pages, whereas we have them all listed by the collaborating author alone.  So I intend to swap out which variant of these titles is included.  I don't thin this is controversial.
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# There is a short essay before each section giving biographical details of each co-author.  I intend to add these.  While not signed, I think we can safely attribute them to John by virtue of his annotation credit.
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#The PDF lists 5 different formats each with their own ISBN including the "Interactive PDF".  Should we add the PDF as a separate title record, or should the PDF ISBN be added in the notes for the {{P|765112|ebook}} edition?  I'll also note, that my understanding is that we do list page numbers for pdfs whereas we do not for ebooks.
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# I'm fairly comfortable that these changes should apply to the 2018 publications based on the 2018 pdf.  I'm less certain whether I should make changes to the 2017 edition, or the 2019 omnibus, i.e should we assume the story credits and biographical essays are present in the other editions not listed in the pdf?
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# I assume adding a note about the PDF being included with the audio book is sufficient rather than duplicating the contents showing the story exists twice (audio and text).
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I'd appreciate other's thoughts on these questions.  Thanks. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 07:29, 28 March 2024 (EDT)
  
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http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?77572; That cover I carelessly added recently is actually from the '73 Doubleday ed. (art by Frazetta); I've deleted it, pending approval, but in the process found the cool Longmeadow '91 cover which looks like a Satanic bible, so I added that, pending approval. However, since I couldn't find the real PageFree cover, maybe someone else here can? --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:57, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
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:My mild opinion is that both this and the example you cited should be ANTHOLOGY. They are different from the case where most of the stories are written by Lovecraft alone, with one or two written by him and someone else. While both are Locvecraft-centric, they are primarily showcasing the work of a wide variety of authors. I agree with everything else in your list. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 19:55, 31 March 2024 (EDT)
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::I'm afraid I would still prefer these as COLLECTIONs.  If we were to convert them to ANTHOLOGY, we would need to list the editor as the sole author which would move these collections out of Lovecraft's bibliography.  I had only cited one example, but there are many similar collections, many of which are verified.  For example, see which collections containing the story {{T|1035316|The Green Meadow}}.  It is contained in two true anthologies.  Aside from the 4 editions of the title we're discussing, there is but one other {{P|848648|publication} typed as a ANTHOLOGY. All other publications were entered as COLLECTION or OMNIBUS.  In some of these cases, we don't necessarily have the editor and would likely need to move these titles to the uncredited bibliography page instead of Lovecraft's.  {{P|280465|Beyond the Wall of Sleep}} is another interesting example.  There about 10 "collaborations" in this collection which is a minority, but it is more than one or two stories. If we decide to type these sorts of books as ANTHOLOGY, where would we draw that line?  My last point is that it appears to me that these books are published to appear as Lovecraft collections with his name listed more prominently than any editors (if they are listed at all). If we are to reclassify these publication, I'd like to hear from some of the other verifiers.  Thanks.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 19:23, 1 April 2024 (EDT)
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:::Since there have been no further responses to this, and the one objection was "mild", I'm going to proceed with these changes.  Thanks.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 12:34, 13 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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== Application for moderator status, Scifibones ==
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== "Publication Title-Reference Title Mismatches" enhanced ==
  
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[Edit: Linking [[Moderator Qualifications]]. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 09:28, 26 April 2022 (EDT) ]
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As per the recent Rules and Standards discussion, the cleanup report "Publication Title-Reference Title Mismatches" has been enhanced to require an exact match between publication titles and their reference title records' titles. New data will become available tomorrow morning.
  
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I formally request moderator privileges. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 20:18, 24 April 2022 (EDT)
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We are looking at around 10,000 mismatches, so the cleanup effort will be significant, especially considering the fact that many affected publication records have been primary-verified. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:07, 4 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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: Yep! I'm all for it: very good work that I've seen. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 01:41, 25 April 2022 (EDT)
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== Canonical name change Charles Eugene Anderson from Chuck Anderson ==
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::Seconded! [[User:PeteYoung|PeteYoung]] 05:51, 26 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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: Support.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 09:27, 26 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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: Support. Does good work and plays well with others. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:02, 26 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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: Support. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 14:56, 26 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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=== Outcome ===
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Any objections to making [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?273059 Charles Eugene Anderson] the canonical name and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?108390 Chuck Anderson] the alternate?
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*17 titles credited to Charles Eugene Anderson.
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*09 titles credited to Chuck Anderson.
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*01 title has publications credited to each.
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Thanks, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 07:51, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
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: Go ahead, obvious case where the switch can/need to happen [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 09:28, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
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:: Hearing no objections, done. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 18:45, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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The nomination was successful; the moderator flag has been set on the account. Congratulations! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 10:28, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
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== David (B.) Mattingly ==
  
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== Setsu Izume = Summer Fletcher ? ==
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Looking through the works credited to [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?37498 Mattingly], it seems to me that "David Mattingly" is the most common (by far), and has been for a long time. There are so many entries, though, this opinion is based only on quickly scanning through the list. Is there a way to get a count of each through database queries? I don't think any of the other aliases are used in a significant amount. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:58, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
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: Just with search and a browser search: 510 with the name David Mattingly; 747 under the canonical; 198 of these 747 of them are "only as by David Mattingly". Just based on that, how we record the names from secondary sources for artists and the fact that the new ones are always without the B. when we get access to the book, I would say it is time to flip the names. I am not volunteering to do it though. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 18:58, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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Stumbled across a bit of a headscratcher, and looking for second opinions before making any edits...
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(after edit conflict)
  
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Earlier today, [https://twitter.com/sfwa/status/1518959838298091522 SFWA tweeted] a link to [https://www.sfwa.org/2020/01/21/grant-applications-101-finding-troubleshooting-and-completing-the-quest-for-funding/ an article] on their site from 2020 attributed to "Setsu Uzumé". The author bio at the bottom links to a Twitter handle [https://twitter.com/scribblesassin scribblesassin], which has the display name "Summer Fletcher", which in turn links to a [https://summerfletcher.com/press-kit/ summerfletcher.com] site.
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: The easiest way that I can think of is to run a few Advanced Title Searches using "Author's Name is exactly David Mattingly". Make sure to click "Get Count" instead of "Get Results". Here are the results that I see:
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:* David B. Mattingly: 747
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:* David Mattingly: 510
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:* Dave Mattingly: 12
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:* D. B. Mattingly: 7
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:* Dave Maddingly: 1
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:* D. Matingly: 1
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:* Mattingly: 2
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:* David Burroughs Mattingly: 1
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: Since {{A|David B. Mattingly}} is the current canonical name, it's over-represented. Every "David Mattingly" COVERART/INTERIORART title has a "David B. Mattingly" parent title, but only some of the latter have actual publications associated with them. Firefox tells me that the Summary Bibliography page has:
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:* 79 instances of "also appeared"
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:* 8 instances of "also as"
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:* 132 instances of "only appeared"
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:* 207 instances of "only as"
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: What this means is that 339 canonical titles have only appeared under an alternate name. Another 87 have been credited at least 2 different ways. 339+87-12-7-1-1-2 is 403, which, unless I am missing something, gives us a rough count. I'd need to run database queries to get a better idea, but it looks like "David Mattingly" is slightly ahead of "David B. Mattingly".
  
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Both [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?210713 Setsu Uzumé] and [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?339579 Summer Fletcher] currently have separate entries here, although their work has much in common e.g. a bunch of author interviews for Lightspeed and Nightmare magazines.
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: P.S. Perhaps what we need is a new menu options to generate this kind of data on demand. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 19:03, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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Searching on Google and Twitter, the only concrete info I can find indicating these are the same people is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PodCastle#History Wikipedia], which states "... with Setsu Uzumé (later known as Summer Fletcher) hosting."  There are further circumstantial links between the two, e.g. [https://twitter.com/search?q=setsu%20uzume%20scribblesassin&src=typed_query&f=live Twitter shows the scribblesassin handle was associated with Setsu Uzumé], and [https://pseudopod.org/2017/10/27/pp-566-fotb-xl-halloween-street/ some podcast credits use both names] (caused by a partial CMS update not changing all name references perhaps?), but not enough that I'm completely confident in making alternate name links.
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::That would be cool. Another cool thing would be if we could figure out a way to programatically automate the process of changing canonical names (maybe have a side menu link that appears whenever viewing an author entry). The link would take you to a page where you'd enter the current author ID and the target author ID. We'd have to account for variants on the author name, title variants, and translations (and probably a lot of other things that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head). For situations like this, it would save tons of time in the long run. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:37, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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Anyone familiar with Lightspeed, Nightmare mags or the Podcastle podcast who can perhaps shed some light on this? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 11:44, 26 April 2022 (EDT)
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::: This functionality has been requested a couple of times. Unfortunately, it would be very difficult to implement in a way that would guarantee completeness and accuracy. Not only would the software need to change the way VTs and Alternate Names are configured, but it would also need to change dates (for some titles) and Notes.
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:Looks like they are likely the same person. Setsu Uzumé seems to be the more used of the two at the moment, though they are each pretty close in quantity. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:04, 26 April 2022 (EDT)
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::: Perhaps we could implement something less ambitious but still useful. For example, "Undo all Variants for This Author"? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:22, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
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::::Yeah, it's definitely very complex. I like the "Undo all Variants for This Author" idea, though. What about a "swap canonical authors" option on individual titles? That would be a lot less complex and allow for easier catching of potential issues. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:48, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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==Black Rift fixup novel==
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::::: I don't see the benefit of an "Undo all Variants for This Author" tool. A variant title only needs to be broken if both the canonical title and the variant tiles have publications attributed. If all the publication(s) are associated with the variant title, a simple merge is the best option. Not only does it save a step by not having to delete the old canonical, but it saves all the information. Some data is only stored in the "parent title", plus any edit history. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 15:38, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
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[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2171480 This novel] (published April 2016) is a fixup of these previously-published short fiction chapbooks:
 
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*[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2561789 In the Walls of Uryx] (August 2015)
 
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*[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2561778 The Gnawing Gate] (September 2015)
 
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*[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2561772 Six Pillars] (November 2015)
 
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*[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2561468 The Scarlet Lord] (February 2016)
 
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*[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2561446 Ten Skulls] (February 2016)
 
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*[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2561440 Bridge of Smoke] (March 2016)
 
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*[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2561437 The Sulphur Citadel] (March 2016)
 
  
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Submissions have been made to turn all the chapbook contents into SERIAL instead of SHORTFICTION, which seems incorrect to me. I've placed all of them on hold for the moment so we can figure this one out. It's been a long while since I encountered one of these, and I think I've only ever worked on one other fixup novel. How should all of these be organized? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:37, 26 April 2022 (EDT)
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::I'm slowly working through all of them. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:42, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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:I would treat them as serial installments. The author's website [https://joshuamreynolds.co.uk/works/licensed-work/ bibliography] does not show them as individual stories. The first installment, [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2561792 Assault on the Mandrake Bastion], was entered as a serial and correctly linked. I would have used slightly different titles for each installment. I use the format '(Serialized Work), (Installment title)'. "The Black Rift of Klaxus, Part 1: Assault on the Mandrake Bastion" for the first installment. (Same title for the corresponding CHAPBOOK and publication titles) [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 09:55, 27 April 2022 (EDT)
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:::I have completed moving all the records to [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?1814 David Mattingly]. I think someone else was moving them, too, so thanks to them, too. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:32, 22 April 2024 (EDT)
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:: Unless the title is printed like that in the book itself, you should not be using made-up standartized titles like '(Serialized Work), (Installment title)' -- we go by what the title page says as usual. Just saying. If you want to change the rules, go to R&S and propose it. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:18, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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::: The wording was from Amazon. The look inside substitutes the cover for a title page. The format is from the following help page example. "If the title of a SERIAL installment is unique, e.g. "Butterflies in the Kremlin, Part Eight: As the Bear Turns" or "Ciężki bój (cz. 1)", then use the full form of the title. What am I mssing? P.S. Glad to hear from you, I was wondering where you were. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 14:42, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:::: IF the title comes from the title page, you are good. If you are standardizing based on the example, read the help page again - it tells you that IF that is the title of the installment, you use that not that you build the title of the installment this way. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:02, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:::: Business travel is back in season and juggling ISFDB at airports and whatsnot is sometimes impossible. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:02, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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: Were those advertised as stories or as a novel in installments? That is what determines the formats for me - if it was always meant as a novel, these are serials indeed. If they were individual stories which then got made into a novel without changes, the "novel" is a collection in our DB (see Asimov's "Foundation" for the most famous example) :) If there were changes (especially big ones), we just note it into the notes. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:18, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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::I'm not sure how they were advertised. With how closely the novel followed the publication of the final part, I wouldn't be surprised if they were advertised as a novel in installments. I've just never seen a SERIAL published all by itself. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:40, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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::: We changed the rules for chapbooks a few years ago specifically to allow for this specific case - when a novel is published in installments first (either ebooks or printed for example) but not inside of a magazine. If anything, that is actually a very old way to publish books - just ask Charles Dickens ("David Copperfield" for example). It is becoming somewhat common in ebooks these days but sometimes happens in paper chapbooks as well. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:43, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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::: And an example: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2167909 here]. Actually look at most of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?135700 this author] - she was one of the examples when we allowed that way.[[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:49, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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::::Thanks! I wanted to make sure of how it needed to be done before approving the changes since I hadn't run into this before. They've all been approved now. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:29, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== Serendipity ==
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:::: Joe, thanks for sorting this out. I noticed [[User:Zapp|Zapp]] was helping you. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 19:38, 22 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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https://archive.org/details/sciencefictionfa0000unse_j7a7; I recently fixed/added info to Thomas A. Easton's novel Silicon Karma, starting with the 1997 White Wolf edition, then the original 1995 DISK version. I also added info that Serendipity published a magazine, Electronic Publishing Forum, which offered an extract from the novel in one of their 1995 issues. As far as I can tell, there's no photos of the disk cover online, but by searching Archive.org I found, on p. 299 of that link above, a wee scan of the cover (IBM-PC COMPATIBLE), so it did actually exist. Also mentioned are 2 other novels; Marian Allen has only short stories on ISFDB (assuming it's the same person; common name), and Mr. Dacy only has a 1973 SF essay, although D.A.I.S.Y. is on Amazon in an e-book version. Checking further, Open Library has 4 books by the publisher; 1 is about mercury spills (available on Amazon if anyone's interested), Allegheny Mountain Chronicles doesn't seem to be anywhere online and probably isn't genre anyway, but the other 2 are interesting; Blue-Eyed Muse's description on Amazon seems to suggest this is a huge Canterbury Tales-type thing, with some of the tales being SF, which is borne out by the fact that The Science Fiction Six-Pack includes the author, John Peter, along with Easton, Dacy, and Allen. So there seems to be a publisher from the ancient days of books on disks/CD who published a lot of stuff not on ISFDB or most other sites. So if anyone knows of/owns any of these, they need entering. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:11, 26 April 2022 (EDT)
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== Server downtime -- 2024-04-06 at 2pm ==
  
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== Kubrick the Cover Artist? ==
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The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance between 2:00pm and 2:10pm. Both the database side and the Wiki side will be unavailable. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 13:28, 6 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?USE_1=pub_title&O_1=exact&TERM_1=&C=AND&USE_2=pub_title&O_2=contains&TERM_2=shining&USE_3=pub_note&O_3=contains&TERM_3=kubrick&USE_4=pub_title&O_4=exact&TERM_4=&USE_5=pub_title&O_5=exact&TERM_5=&USE_6=pub_title&O_6=exact&TERM_6=&USE_7=pub_title&O_7=exact&TERM_7=&USE_8=pub_title&O_8=exact&TERM_8=&USE_9=pub_title&O_9=exact&TERM_9=&USE_10=pub_title&O_10=exact&TERM_10=&ORDERBY=pub_title&ACTION=query&START=0&TYPE=Publication]; I don't really think Stanley Kubrick should be credited for that first book; if anything the cameraman would get the credit. If he should be credited, then he should also be on the second book which uses the same image. As for the third book, there's a note saying covers are stills from the movie, but is that image from the movie? It sure doesn't look familiar to me, and they show that bloody movie every other week here in the States on BBC America (with swearing and nudity cut out and endless commercials). --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:25, 27 April 2022 (EDT)
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: The server is back up. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:05, 6 April 2024 (EDT)
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:You're right, the third image is from the 1997 miniseries adaptation. --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 12:41, 27 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== David Bell = Jack Wainer ==
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== The Prequel Trilogy ==
  
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I think [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?19311 Jack Wainer] is the pen name of this [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?78369 David Bell], according to [http://www.philsp.com/homeville/fmi/n/n00527.htm#A234 here]. I'll variant Wainer's work to Bell, if you agree. --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 12:29, 27 April 2022 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934500; I have a question about the publisher of this 2007 Star Wars omnibus; there is no mention of Ballantine in the book so it should be similar to the last one on this list, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=del+rey&type=Publisher, but without the SFBC. Should I change publisher to LucasBooks / Del Rey? --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 11:30, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
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: Have you considered the 'Additional Bibliographic Comments' linked to the above author Bibliographies? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 14:02, 27 April 2022 (EDT)
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:https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934540; I changed publisher on this one since they were still with Ballantine in 2000. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:22, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
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::Yes. But Locus, above, says they're the same person. --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 14:28, 27 April 2022 (EDT)
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::https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934546; Another change from 2005 when they were still together. I don't see any cover artist credited that someone entered here or any sign of the excerpt mentioned on the book's copyright page. EDIT: One of the earlier editions has a note here saying they got artist from his site. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 12:31, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
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:::https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934585; Another one from 2006; this one actually has a PV so I'll leave them a message. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:12, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
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::::And a final one, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934586, 2005 HC, PV is gone so no need for a note. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:18, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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== Twilight Tales ==
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== Semaphore ==
  
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I don't think [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?31579 Twilight Tales] should be called a magazine. It's a series of chapbooks, with different titles, not just numbers. There's [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?386116 Dangerous Dames], Winter Tales, Tales of Forbidden Passion, etc. I think they should be changed to anthologies. Can I do that? --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 19:52, 27 April 2022 (EDT)
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https://www.lulu.com/fr/search?contributor=Marie+Hodgkinson; While adding PDF story links from Tartarus Press at their old freepages.pavilion.net site the last one I linked was a story by Rebecca Lloyd that was entered here as original to her 2014 collection but was actually published in 2007 in a magazine called Semaphore, no issues of which are on ISFDB, but I found that Lulu page above so anyone who likes entering magazines can add a lot from that. The editor has a page here, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?143960. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:41, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
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: I bet the answer is no, don't go ahead.
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:https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/semaphoremagazine.com; PDF of some (all?) issues at this site. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 13:50, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
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: This little question raises for me a medium size one, which is the '''Publication series''' or '''Magazine''' (series)? I make it bigger by continuation in a new section below. --[[User:Pwendt|Pwendt]]|[[User talk:Pwendt|talk]] 12:46, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
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::Looks like it has archived PDFs of all but the last issue (issue 15) from June 2011. I'll work on these. The first issue is now [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?1002803 here]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:32, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
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::Why not? --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 13:59, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
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:::Okay, I think they're [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?73131 all entered] (15 issues in total). I also found a [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?73148 couple anthologies] collecting the stories and poems voted best by readers of the magazine. I don't know if there were more than the two anthologies. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:33, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
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::::Excellent. Only thing I think you forgot is June 2008's cover artist. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 14:07, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
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:::::Fixed! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:11, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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:::I don't have a direct answer for you, but [http://www.locusmag.com/index/b549.htm#A8059 Locus] considers the set from 1998 a magazine, despite the differing titles.  It could be useful to see how other bibliographic resources (that are not sourcing ISFDB) treat them.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 07:56, 29 April 2022 (EDT)
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== David Ireland ==
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:::Similar treatment [http://www.philsp.com/pulptrader/web/pulp_mag_tablefa62.html?mag=1053 here] (not surprising). --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 08:21, 29 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:::: A lot of magazines have subtitles or issue titles... unfortunately due to the rules of how we add magazines, we can only add these into the Notes. I agree to matching the other sources for the format - while this one can go either way indeed, if everyone else calls it a magazine and we have no other reason not to besides "so we can have the titles in the title field", we probably should be changing the magazines titles rules, not working around them. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:19, 29 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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:::::If it's a matter of recording the title, I am pretty sure using something like "Twilight Tales Presents #1: Tales of Forbidden Passion, February 1998" and "Twilight Tales Presents #2: Dangerous Dames, April 1998" would work properly.  In fact, I will go try it so we can see what it looks like.  Others may have a different view, but I think such a naming structure is ok under the naming standards.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 13:49, 29 April 2022 (EDT)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?3106; I just made edits adding the Allen Lane HC of City of Women and adding a link to Mortal Fire where the 1982 short story is from and noticed that the Wiki page makes no mention of any art so I think the famed Australian novelist and the artist are 2 different people. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:28, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
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:::::Colons don't do much.  But using a comma instead does.  The [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?31579 series] shows the titles, and you have to click through the title to see the pub name.  The effect would be more apparent if we collapsed the editor records into yearly buckets.  But with a comma, the title would appear in the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?31579 grid]. Dunno if that's something we like or not..... --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 14:02, 29 April 2022 (EDT)
 
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:::::: It will work and it looks perfectly well with a comma - but it is still against the current rule :( I tried awhile back to restart the discussion on allowing for other parts (subtitles, whole numbers and what's not) to be included but it did not work out again (with the usual strong opposition by Rtrace who would rather stick to the rule as is if we cannot find a rule that works for every single magazine under the Sun and noone seemed to have the energy to disagree more) and under the current rules, these cannot be in the title. If you are willing to reopen that discussion again on changing/reinterpreting the rules, I will support fully allowing these in the titles but I am in no mood to start it again...  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:12, 29 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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:::::::I'm not trying to open a debate, but we have precedents where the issue number is included using a comma (as I described) to get it into the issue grid. Two beginning-of-the-alphabet examples: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?27885 Algol] and [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?47715 Amazing Stories (UK)].  As far as I know, the standard is simply <Magazine Title> + comma + <date-or-substitute>, with permissive guidance about what is used for the title part. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 15:16, 29 April 2022 (EDT)
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== Canonical name change Jody A. Lee from Jody Lee ==
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:::::::: And yet, if someone decides to “fix” them per the rules, that would be approved and some magazines had been “fixed” that way. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:55, 29 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== Publication series; Magazine ==
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The [https://www.jodylee.org/ artist's website] and [https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/lee_jody_a SFE] use Jody A. Lee. While the majority of her early work was credited to 'Jody Lee', the shift to 'Jody A. Lee' is clear. Here are the current statistics.
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*111 titles credited to Jody A. Lee.
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*73 titles credited to Jody Lee.
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*26 titles hasve publications credited to each.
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Are there any objections to making [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?25820 Jody A. Lee] the canonical name and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?25602 Jody Lee] the alternate? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 14:24, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
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:Sounds good to me. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:41, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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We do have some book "Publication series" wherein most issues contain a single novel and some "Magazine" series wherein most issues contain a single novel. (If a Magazine series, then the novel is a single-issue serial with "(Complete Novel)" rather than "(Part 1)" and so on.) At least in the 19th century, some of the series are near full of reissues, not original works. There may be no agreement on any crucial criterion: eg, whether the binding/format makes a Magazine series rather than a book publication series; whether title page wording and layout makes a Magazine; etc.
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:: No objections here. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 15:47, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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All that is my understanding from two and more years ago.  
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::: Hearing no objections, done. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 17:47, 15 April 2024 (EDT)
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::::https://ixgallery.com/artists/jodylee/; Here's her photo in case someone wants to upload it to the wiki. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 17:58, 15 April 2024 (EDT)
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:::::{{done}}Done! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:28, 17 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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Here is one example novel with book and single-issue serial publications. Here the single-issue serial was the first publication of the work as a whole, months after its publication in multi-part serial editions --in non-genre periodical publications not in the database.
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== ISBN hyphenation changed ==
  
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[1] '''[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?30958 Arrowsmith's]''' is (magazine) <u>Series 30958</u>. Presumably the mix of Christmas Annual titles with and without comma is a mistake. The mix of formats is not a mistake but the entire series may be digest. All three Worldcat records reports size 17cm.
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As I am sure most of you know, different publishers' ISBNs are hyphenated differently. Possible permutations include:
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* {{t|889739}} ''The Wizard'' by H. Rider Haggard
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* 978-1-64973-127-2
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* [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?834417 ''Arrowsmith's Christmas Annual 1896'']
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* 978-1-9821-9317-1
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[2] '''[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?7302 Munro's Library]''' is (book) <u>Publication series 7302</u>. Presumably the mix of 'tp' and 'pb' format is a mistake. <br>
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* 979-8-200-29585-2
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(Need a "digest" example too, for adequate illustration.) --[[User:Pwendt|Pwendt]]|[[User talk:Pwendt|talk]] 12:49, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
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* 979-10-281-0150-3
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: (above insert long line [1] and tweak line [2])
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* 979-8-9856919-6-2
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: From MartyD and Annie in the preceding section I infer that ", 1988" appears in Arrowsmith's [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?30958 seriesgrid 30958] by a technical trick that is evoked by that comma in the publication title.
 
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: Here is another MAGAZINE Series, one that routinely contains a single-issue serial edition of one novel (as ''Arrowsmith's'' may not).
 
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[3] '''[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?50637 Harper's Franklin Square Library]''' is (magazine) <u>Series 50637</u>. Format: 1 quarto, 4 unknown.
 
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: All five Franklin Square numbers now in the database contain single-issue serials that were 1st ed. or near contemporary to the 1st ed. of the work. --[[User:Pwendt|Pwendt]]|[[User talk:Pwendt|talk]] 16:40, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== Application for self-approval status -- taweiss ==
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"The International ISBN Agency" maintains [https://www.isbn-international.org/range_file_generation a list of rules] which determine in which positions hyphens are supposed to appear. Almost all publishers follow them, although there have been some exceptions, notably Tor prior to 2007.
  
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I request self-approval privileges. [[User:Taweiss|Tom]] 19:25, 28 April 2022 (EDT)
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When ISFDB 2.0 was developed in 2004-2006, the rules -- as they existed back then -- were manually incorporated in the ISFDB software. What we didn't realize at the time was how complex the rules would become over the course of the following 20 years. As the number of publishers (and self-publishers) exploded, the International ISBN Agency had to create more and more rules to accommodate the growth and the ISBN handling part of the ISFDB software, which was last updated in 2010, fell hopelessly behind. The result was that many ISBNs were hyphenated incorrectly when displayed on ISFDB pages.
  
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:Support. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 09:01, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
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Earlier today I deployed a fairly big patch which changed the way the ISFDB software determines where hyphens are displayed. We now follow the International ISBN Agency's current rules to the letter. There is also a way to update our rules programmatically whenever the Agency rolls out new rules. I expect that we will be doing it a few times a year, which will let us stay more or less in sync with the Agency. (We also have special exceptions for Tor and the other 2 publishers which didn't follow the rules prior to 2007.)
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:Support. Does a good job. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:56, 2 May 2022 (EDT)
 
  
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== Sick ==
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As always, if you come across any issues with this software change, please let me know. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 14:07, 16 April 2024 (EDT)
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:Thanks for all your hard work behind the scenes on stuff like this. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:03, 16 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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https://archive.org/details/howsick; A mention of text stories in old comic books possibly being OK to enter here recently reminded me that there are tons of obscure comic magazines on Archive.org that spoofed genre material, all trying and failing to be Mad Magazine; the one linked above seems to be a book compilation of Sick Magazine articles published by Zebra in 1974, and several, especially the first, Stuporman, are genre-related. So if some of this is acceptable that could open up a metric ton of new entries. Whether or not anyone agrees, one thing I know for sure; MY GOD, these magazines were terribly unfunny. Skimming through this I found nothing even remotely amusing, and for the easily offended there's a series of American Indian cartoons that are so racist it's unbelievable. --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:10, 29 April 2022 (EDT)
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:: To quote Damon Knight, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_(The_Twilight_Zone) I am here to serve man!] :-) {{unsigned|Ahasuerus}}
  
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== Add Web Pages to MakeVariant page ==
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== Publication Title Without a Related Title Record ==
  
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Can we add Web Pages to the MakeVariant page? I often find myself needing to edit the parent post approval just to add the Web Page(s) which support the title and/or date and/or details of the notes of the parent I just added - before that adding notes and the series required an edit anyway but now it is just the Web Pages remaining uneditable. Thanks! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:45, 29 April 2022 (EDT)
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I am about to create a new pub record under [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1034 That Hideous Strength] by C. S. Lewis.  There is a subtitle on the title page so the full, correct publication title is: <i>That Hideous Strength: A Modern Fairy-Tale for Grown-Ups</i>. Looking at the title record I see there are five publications (three of which have been PVd) with this subtitle. However, they do not have a related title record "That Hideous Strength: A Modern Fairy-Tale for Grown-Ups" and consequently there is no varianting. Is this correct and if so why? [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:42, 17 April 2024 (EDT)
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: It is not correct. The publication title should match the reference title. [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?93 This report] highlights 1000 exceptions each day (I don't know the selection algorithm). First determine, subtitle or no subtitle, which should be the canonical? It's also a good idea to review the publications and make sure they are recorded correctly. Whichever you determine, it will be a multi-step edit. Ask if you have questions.  If I'm online, ping me and I'll approve as you submit. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 20:14, 17 April 2024 (EDT)
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::You have confirmed my suspicions. The cleanup report to which you refer does not include "That Hideous Strength" so I guess it's because it is limited to 1000 records. I'm happy to clean up this title. I'm satisfied that "That Hideous Strength" (without subtitle) is the more appropriate canonical title. I have inspected the five pub records with the subtitle and each looks internally consistent. Three of these have PVs. Do I need to consult with PVs or can this sort of housekeeping be performed without PVs' consent? [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 12:42, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
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::: It's not necessary to contact the PV's. You're merely correcting the reference title. I know you intend to perform all the steps and will indicate such in the note to moderator. I noticed this title wasn't on the report. Perhaps [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] will chime in and explain the algorithm determining which titles to report. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 15:45, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
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::::First step submitted: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5944215 Unmerge titles]. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 16:26, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
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:::::Approved, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 16:33, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
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::::::Step 2 submitted: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5944273 merge the 5 reference titles of the subtitled version]. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 17:12, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
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:::::::Approved, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 17:17, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
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::::::::Step 3 submitted: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5944284 make subtitled version a variant of canonical title].
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::::::::Think that's it for the pubs but I can see there's more work to do:
 +
::::::::A) These two pubs: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?900677 Macmillan 1966] and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?262760 Macmillan 1977] have the variant title but the same canonical coverart title records. So I'm pretty sure these need to be changed. The only way I can see to do this involves five more edits:
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::::::::Step 4) edit one of the pubs (1966, say) and create a second coverart record under the variant title
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::::::::Step 5) variant the coverart record
 +
::::::::Step 6) import the variant coverart record to the 1977 pub
 +
::::::::Step 7) remove the canonical coverart record from the 1966 pub
 +
::::::::Step 8) remove the canonical coverart record from the 1977 pub
 +
::::::::Is there a more efficient way to do this?
 +
::::::::B) Those same two pubs contain an essay [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?965984 Preface (That Hideous Strength)] which has a disambiguator under the canonical title. Does the disambiguator have to be changed to the variant title. I'm unsure about this because the phrase is only a disambiguator; it's not actually part of the title of the essay. Can you please advise.
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::::::::My goodness, this is long-winded! [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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: It so happens that I started working on {{FR|743}}, "Make this a variant title should move synopsis" earlier today. Once I finish it, I will move on to {{FR|1487}}, "Add Web Pages to Make Variant pages". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:03, 29 April 2022 (EDT)
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(unindent)<br>
 +
Submit two edits for each pub. (All four at once)
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*Submission 1 - Add the new variant titles, COVERART and preface.
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*Submission 2 - Remove the canonicals.
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Since these submissions will generate change notices, reference this conversation in the note to moderator.
 +
After I approve all four, I'll perform the two merges. You will just need to link the variants. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 18:48, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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:: {{FR|1487}} has been implemented. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:32, 1 May 2022 (EDT)
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::Yes, I see where you're going with this. About the same number of edits but fewer Wait For Approval stages. Four edits submitted. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 07:12, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
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:::Approved, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 07:22, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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== Spotreps anthology and Brad Torgers[eo]n ==
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::::Two Make Variants submitted. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 07:52, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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I raised this a few weeks ago on [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Mikerogers the submitting editor's talk page], but it seems they are inactive, so throwing open to a wider audience...
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:::::I've checked all the affected records and everything looks good to me apart from one error that must have been present before we started the cleanup: the date of the canonical title of the Preface ([https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5944959 correction submitted]). So I think we've finally reached the end. If there's anything I've missed, let me know. Many thanks for all your assistance with this John. Much appreciated. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 16:34, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
  
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There is a [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?324489 "Brad Torgerson"] author record that has [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2849884 a single story] from a [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?830506 Spotreps anthology]. The data for the latter is apparently from Amazon and [https://www.americanpraetorians.com/announcing-a-maelstrom-rising-anthology/ the publisher site], but I couldn't find anything on either that supports this pub having Torgers'''e'''n mis-spelled - the latter link does spell it correctly, although that could easily be down to an edit being made on that site after this pub/story was added here.  The Amazon (UK) previews (for both ebook and tp) don't include any bits that reference this author, but the product listing does have his name spelled correctly.
+
::::::Fortunately, there is a scan of the first edition in the internet archive. I added the preface and a link to the scan [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?87759 here]. As you know, the canonical is dated to the first appearance, even if it is as a variant. I put your submission on hold, assuming you would rather cancel than have me reject it. I enjoyed working on this with you. Ping me anytime. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 18:43, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
Any objections to fixing this story's record to use the correctly spelled author name? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 11:59, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
+
:::::::Oh, that's interesting. It hadn't occurred to me to look for an archive of the first ed because I had looked in Currey who states the following regarding the first Pan pb (1955): 'adds new author's "preface"'. So it's possible that there are two different prefaces. This requires more research which I don't have time to do now and may not have the resources anyway. But it's fine to leave the ISFDb records as they are for now; they are all self consistent. I have cancelled my submission. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 04:46, 20 April 2024 (EDT)
−
:The Amazon Look Inside for the Kindle version includes the title page for that story. It is spelled Brad R. Torgersen. Go ahead and change it to match the Look Inside. The pub is not verified and it is unlikely the tp and ebook use different credits. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 12:15, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
 
−
:: Argh - I'm sure I looked at both the ebook and tp previews each more than once, and was sure they cut out before they got to his story - but I can see that the ebook preview does indeed have it.  Anyway, the record has now been corrected - thanks! [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 12:47, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Make Variant and Synopsis data ==
+
== Trademark markings in titles ==
  
−
"Make Variant" has been updated to move "synopsis" data from the child title to the parent title.
+
My understanding is that we generally don't include symbols like ® and <sup>TM</sup> in titles because they usually indicate information ''about'' the title but are not usually ''part'' of the title. As JLaTondre [[ISFDB:Community Portal/Archive/Archive28#Shadowkeep|wrote in 2012]], "There is distinction between a title that has a '®' or 'TM' as part of the title and a title that adds the '®' or 'TM' for legal reasons." I'm asking because I ran across [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2720942 this title] that has one as part of the title, and I don't think it's actually part of the title itself, but rather added for legal reasons. This might be something we should clarify on [[Help:Screen:Title]]. This was discussed [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Rules_and_standards_discussions/Archive/Archive03#One_for_the_.22EXACT_title.2C_including_all_punctuation_and_special_characters.22_crowd way back in 2007], but I haven't yet found any more recent discussions (outside of the 2012 one I mentioned above). Thoughts? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:51, 23 April 2024 (EDT)
 +
:I'm the editor with the sole PV for that ebook pub. I have no objection to removing it since the trademark symbol really only applies to the "Liaden Universe" portion of the title. It is on the title page and cover that way. Clarification of the rule would be a good idea. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 13:44, 23 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
Which reminds me. Are there scenarios where a VT with a synopsis makes sense? We have 1,636 of them, but I suspect that the vast majority are titles whose synopses were not moved to the parent record when they were varianted. I guess I should create a cleanup report for "VTs with synopsis data" and then we'll see if any are legitimate. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:41, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
+
== Supermonsters ==
  
−
: The cleanup report has been coded and deployed. The data will become available tomorrow morning. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:57, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2600565; I added Supermonsters as a variant (and subbed a better cover image) but it's from 1986 like the German parent so if anyone can find a copyright page scan which verifies the month is earlier the American cover would become the parent; I couldn't find one, but I do see on eBay that Archway released a much earlier PB in Sep. '78 with a photo of the cool American-added demon from the 1950s film Night/Curse of the Demon on the cover but the 2 sellers that showed the copyright page have editions that say 1 2 9 8 below the printing info; whether that's a number line or what I don't know but if anyone owns a copy you may want to enter yours. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:47, 24 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
== Putin? ==
+
== Ray Daley possible death ==
  
−
FantLab.ru's photos were working earlier today but now they're all broken. Same for others? --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:21, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
+
It's possible [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?235688 Ray Daley] has died, though I haven't found an obituary or any other official report. He was in the hospital since the end of March due to a heart attack, and a number of people are posting condolences on an open call group on Facebook as well as on [https://www.facebook.com/raymond.daley.10/ his profile there]. I'll try to keep an eye on it and keep looking for an obituary or other official report. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 11:01, 24 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
: Some of FantLab's security certificates were set to expire at the end of April. Presumably their servers are in Europe or Asia, where it's already May 1. Hopefully they will fix it tomorrow or on Monday. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:44, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
+
== 日本SFファンドム賞 (Japan SF Fandom Award) entry completed ==
  
−
:: It looks like the problem has been fixed. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 11:22, 1 May 2022 (EDT)
+
It took me almost a year to do it (due to various things distracting me from it), but [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/awardtype.cgi?105 it's done]. Please let me know if anyone has any questions. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:51, 24 April 2024 (EDT)
−
:::https://data.fantlab.ru is still broken. We have quite a few images that use that URL format so they are still not working. It also looks like they may have changed their format for linking to images. For example:
 
−
:::*{{A|Frederik Pohl}}'s author image is https://data.fantlab.ru/images/autors/618 But the image at https://fantlab.ru/autor618 is now https://fantlab.ru/images/autors/618
 
−
:::*{{P|34923|The First Mayflower Book of Black Magic Stories}}'s cover image is https://data.fantlab.ru/images/editions/big/150132 But the image at https://fantlab.ru/edition150132 is now https://fantlab.ru/images/editions/orig/150132
 
−
:::We will have to monitor to see if they also update the cert for data.fantlab.ru or they have dropped that one permanently and we need to update our image URLs. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 15:58, 1 May 2022 (EDT)
 
  
−
:::: If they decommission data.fantlab.ru, it will require updating 1,442 pub covers, 445 author images and 3 Web pages. Ouch. At least the naming conventions appear to be the same, which should make it possible to update our links programmatically.  [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:39, 1 May 2022 (EDT)
+
:And related, I've completed entering the recipients of the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/awardtype.cgi?107 Takumi Shibano Award]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:42, 24 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
== Affonso Arinhos de Melo Franco = Afonso Arinos ==
+
== Shadow People ==
  
−
These [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?282041] [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?282041] are clearly the same person - same birthdate, deathdate, place of birth and Wikipedia EN link. Both only have a single, different, item in their bibliographies.  I'm not familiar with Brazilian/Portuguese naming/publishing practices - does anyone have any opinion/preference on which should be the primary author record, and which the alternate? 
+
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3356; Long-gone PV of C$ Dell ed. entered just "Jones" as artist here, one or the other should be decided on and the 2 merged. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 09:43, 26 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
Also, I note we have 3 different versions of the given name between the 2 records and the canonical/display and legal name fields: Affonso, Afonso and Alfonso. I propose to leave the display names as-is, but use "Afonso" as the legal name, as that is what Wikipedia EN and PT both have. If anyone can advise on whether "Arinos" should be grouped with the given name or the family name - as the two records split things differently at the moment -  that would be helpful too. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 12:46, 1 May 2022 (EDT)
+
== [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?341005 Joshua T. Calvert] / [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?327917 Joshua Tree] ==
  
−
== More Recent Dead ==
+
Hi! Along with updating the author records I have brought the installing of the first name as a pseudonym for the second on the way (incl. the varianting to the respective original titles). This was based on the information given at the German Wikipedia, which discloses the pseudonym. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] ([[User talk:Stonecreek|talk]]) 11:31, 29 April 2024 (EDT)
  
−
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?463527; When my edit is approved, which entered all 3 dozen or so missing stories from the only place I could find with the page numbers, a JAPANESE site, could someone who owns this book check the Simon, Arnzen, Jeffrey, Gay and Ryan publication histories, which I assume are at the back because they're not at the front? Arnzen published a book of poetry in 2005 from NAKED SNAKE Press with the same title as his poem here, the Ryan story was a digital short on Amazon in 2013, and Gay's story was in online zine Guernica in 2010. The Jeffrey and Simon works I made the same date as this anthology because I can't find anywhere that says they were published elsewhere. --[[User:Username|Username]] 12:14, 2 May 2022 (EDT)
+
: As a point of reference, Amazon.com uses the same author photo on the [https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XK9QMC9 Joshua T. Calvert page] and the [https://www.amazon.com/stores/Joshua-Tree/author/B06Y2M9HT7 Joshua Tree page]. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 12:01, 29 April 2024 (EDT)

Latest revision as of 12:01, 29 April 2024


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Through the Budgerigar

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?925198; While adding LCCN to Jones novel Transplant I noticed this book was added not long ago and while SFE mentions it and even a cover artist there seems to be no evidence of a cover online; can anyone find one? --Username (talk) 18:06, 3 January 2024 (EST)

To the Sound of Freedom II

https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal/Archive/Archive53#To_the_Sound_of_Freedom; I came across this record again today; should it get an all-8's date? --Username (talk) 18:24, 4 January 2024 (EST)

HG Wells and His Critics

https://archive.org/search?query=wells-and-his-critics; Anyone know a way to tell which of the 3 publishers these copies are from so I can add links? The USA one has no record; maybe it was never actually published by them. --Username (talk) 22:38, 5 January 2024 (EST)

Top Science Fiction

https://archive.org/search?query=pachter-josh+top&sort=-addeddate; Someone added intros to this anthology recently, I added archived link long ago, just noticed a Spanish-language edition, La crema de la ciencia ficción, was upped to Archive.org in 2013 in case anyone fluent wants to enter that. EDIT: From the same publisher is La Crema del crimen, https://archive.org/search?query=crema-del-crimen, which includes a few stories from ISFDB judging by back cover. --Username (talk) 09:40, 6 January 2024 (EST)

I will add the Spanish one. What the heck. --MartyD (talk) 13:12, 6 January 2024 (EST)

Pachter

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1914279; Josh Pachter is credited as "with" on title page of 2015 English edition on Archive.org. Should he be added as co-author? --Username (talk) 10:21, 6 January 2024 (EST)

I didn't check the Archive.org copy, but the Look Inside on Amazon shows that "with" citation, but then on the copyright page it says the English translation is copyright 2015 Dhooge and Pachter. There is also a copyright 2014 for Dhooge and the original publisher. I interpret that to mean Pachter's role was (co-?)translator. I found Pachter's bibliography page, and this listed in the "Translations" section. But just to avoid having anything be too clear, he also has this, where he talks about previously translating another Dhooge work and being asked to "collaborate on an American version" of this one. So does that mean this isn't a translation but is actually a major revision? Dunno. Given that Pachter only takes credit for translating it, I think noting him as translator and documenting the "with" citation and the copyright statements (could throw in the Pachter site references as a bonus) should be sufficient. --MartyD (talk) 13:30, 6 January 2024 (EST)

Star Gors

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5851689; I was adding links and adding/fixing other stuff in some Gor editions, mostly UK Star PB, when I noticed an artist's signature for Players of Gor, Star edition, is on the cover but ISFDB had no credit. I tried several names I thought it could be and finally got Tony Masero who, as far as I can tell, is credited exactly once on the entire net for doing this cover, an AbeBooks/Biblio seller's description, but AbeBooks show the wrong (Daw Books) cover and Biblio's scan of the right cover is much too small to see the signature clearly. So I think I got a rare one. As can be seen here, [1], there are 5 other Star editions with no cover credit; if anyone can find a signature on any of them, beat me to it and enter them yourselves. --Username (talk) 21:49, 6 January 2024 (EST)

Night Mayor Cover Art

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?474; I noticed that the cover art for the original UK HC and the US C&G HC, which is the same, is credited to 2 different artists here. It's easy to find photos of the back flap of US online which does say design by Roy Colmer but of the several eBay sellers who offer the UK none thought to show the back flap. There are many C&G Colmer design credits online so I'm thinking Kemp did the art and US just didn't credit him, only their designer. So should we make C&G artist Jon Kemp with a note about him not being credited? --Username (talk) 19:11, 10 January 2024 (EST)

I have the UK hc of Kim Newman / The Night Mayor. The rear flap of the dust jacket states: "Jacket Illustration: Jon Kemp" and "Jacket Design: Bostock & Pollitt Ltd." Teallach (talk) 18:44, 18 January 2024 (EST)

Darrah Chavey's Passing

I was saddened to read this morning of Chavey's passing in File 770 (Number 7 in the Pixel Scroll). It was always a pleasure to work with him here and he will be missed. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 06:49, 11 January 2024 (EST)

I replaced link on his page with an updated one; also, while adding a link to the issue of the zine, Aurora, where his Walton essays appeared I discovered that most issues of Aurora and its predecessor Janus are on Archive.org, he PV most (all?) of them, but some have full contents while others have nothing. I imported a few poems from Robert Frazier, Steven M. Tymon, etc. but there's a ton of other book reviews and articles and stuff for anyone who's interested. --Username (talk) 19:15, 11 January 2024 (EST)
Sad news indeed. He had a heart attack a few years ago and has been less active since then, but he was only 69, so it was unexpected. Thanks for updating his User and Talk pages. I have updated user rights on his account. Ahasuerus (talk) 23:11, 12 January 2024 (EST)
Rtrace, thanks for letting us all know. I echo your sentiments. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:47, 13 January 2024 (EST)

Barn Owl

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?4296; I made an edit for City of Hermits long ago and today added some more stuff; I think this Barn Owl is not the same as the other that published much later. Ann Jungman who wrote a few of the later ones has a Wiki page where it says she founded Barn Owl in 1999 so I think the 1983 one should get a USA or California or something added to it. Whoever wrote the note about Frances Lincoln here seems to have conflated the 2 publishers; the England location probably belongs with the later publisher. --Username (talk) 08:27, 11 January 2024 (EST)

I separated out Barn Owl Books (UK) and Barn Owl Books (USA) based on the ISBN's. I also updated the notes for Barn Owl Books (UK) based on this article. When untangling publishers, the Global Register of Publishers can be of help. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:11, 13 January 2024 (EST)

Pat Frank Title

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5856366; I added cover image long ago; just came across archived copy which was there years before my edit so I'm not sure why I didn't add it back then but I did now and also added dash in title, H-Bomb, but I noticed there's another part of the title that people can't decide on. Mhhutchins entered it with 3 dots but title page has one GIANT dot while facing page has long dash and LOC/WorldCat has comma. So what's the consensus? --Username (talk) 11:44, 11 January 2024 (EST)

Sue Robinson

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?16675; I added archived link and a few other things to the HC of Amendment; author is a respected American newsperson. She should be differed from the Australian author. 1992 story in Weird Tales may be by either of them or another person since there's no bio in that issue. Also, does anyone own Amendment PB? It has nice cover art but there's no back cover photo online where I assume the artist would be credited. I see some weird blocks in the lower right, P and another letter, maybe initials or maybe just part of the art. --Username (talk) 19:10, 11 January 2024 (EST)

I separated out The Amendment to Sue Robinson (I). The author blurb for The Amendment does not align with the bio for the more prominent newspaper reporter of the same name, nor does that person list The Amendment as one of their works on their personal or faculty website. So probably two different reporters with same name. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:55, 13 January 2024 (EST)

Peter Goodfellow

http://petergoodfellow.com/index.php/2-uncategorised/18-misc2; I added a few credits for this artist but the last one has me stumped because the 1992 edition had the same cover as the last image here, http://petergoodfellow.com/index.php/2-uncategorised/18-misc2, but that was wrong because archived copy has the same Posen cover as the later printing on ISFDB. Goodfellow cover has an M for Mammoth so was it an earlier or later edition and why can't I find the original Methuen cover anywhere? --Username (talk) 12:54, 12 January 2024 (EST)

French Swastika

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5857839; French speakers, I made my usual shaky attempt at entering a foreign-language edition but I felt a book of such fame probably deserved it; after approval if anyone cares to look it over I'm sure it can be improved. I also made a follow-up edit changing date of French variant to a year earlier to match the date of this book. Also, those Feminist Press editions, https://archive.org/search?query=swastika-night&sort=-addeddate&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22, are a mess, the one with the white cover matches the UK Lawrence & Wishart edition's cover but has the info of the '85 Feminist edition, while the other 2 with the face on the cover either a) have no price on the back and totally different back cover text but copyright page is the same or b) are a 4th printing from 2003, I think, with cover info on copyright page the '85 edition doesn't have and a missing back cover so no way to tell what was on there. If anyone cares to figure all that out. For some reason the French edition I mentioned above is in English according to Archive.org which is obviously wrong. --Username (talk) 18:59, 12 January 2024 (EST)

UK Omni

https://fantlab.ru/edition356174; I added archived links to the 6 volumes of Best of Omni and noticed FantLab has a photo of #6 with a UK price on it in case anyone knows more about that; maybe all 6 were published there but, if so, none are on ISFDB. --Username (talk) 10:23, 14 January 2024 (EST)

Tiret-Bognet

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=bognet&type=Name; same Verne illustrator, same book in different languages, one should be parent and maybe some of the art needs merging, Holmesd worked on many of these Verne books so he'd probably know. --Username (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (EST)

Server maintenance 2024-01-15 at 3pm EST

The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance on 2024-01-15 (today) between 3pm and 3:10pm EST. The database and the Wiki will be unavailable. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:09, 15 January 2024 (EST)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:06, 15 January 2024 (EST)

N. Katerli

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=katerli&type=Name; I found a huge (380+ pages) thread on FantLab's message boards with people who have died, many of which were never entered on ISFDB (not all genre, though, some footballers and other non-genre people are included, too) and while adding many dates and photos I came across Katerli; I added Wiki link, day of death, and photo to Nina's record but is that other spelling the same person? If so, some variant would probably be needed. --Username (talk) 12:25, 17 January 2024 (EST)

It's very possible, given how things get romanized from Eastern European languages. Perhaps one of our Eastern European language people can do a little digging? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:30, 17 January 2024 (EST)
Looking into it a bit myself, I'm 100% sure they are the same person. Working on connecting them. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:57, 17 January 2024 (EST)
Okay, everything is here, now. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:27, 17 January 2024 (EST)
Thanks for working on her stories. I have added dates and updated the author record. Ahasuerus (talk) 21:51, 17 January 2024 (EST)

Terry Venables

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5861442; Is this the famous footballer (or soccer, as we Yanks call it)? There seem to be a lot of photos of him but some of them look like a different person so just making sure this is the right guy (he wrote some novels including Bornless Keeper which is on ISFDB but online info seems to suggest he didn't actually write any of it, Gordon Williams did). --Username (talk) 12:44, 17 January 2024 (EST)

Yes, things like that do happen: there are several titles in the database for which it is doubtful if the featured prominent author did actually write them; and so, jugig from the photo and the theme of the listed title it is the Terry Venables. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 07:38, 18 January 2024 (EST)
I can confirm that the photo in your submission is indeed of the English footballer Terry Venables. Teallach (talk) 18:42, 18 January 2024 (EST)

Alchemy Magazine

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?35135; Luminist.org has a lot of magazines not on Archive.org and while replacing cover and adding link to Alchemy #2 I noticed all 3 issues have a different format, TP/unknown/pulp. Those who know about such things may want to adjust those since I'm assuming they all should be the same format. --Username (talk) 01:11, 18 January 2024 (EST)

Dinotopia Digest Novels

I just made about 20 edits for this series (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5862661 through https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5862859) and as usual with series books it's a nightmare; I think I did as much as I could with what's available (oddly, only 1 book, Survive!, didn't have its original Random House edition entered on ISFDB so I had to scrounge up a copy on Google Books to enter info from). I think only one thing may raise questions and that's this, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2230051, where an editor here in 2017 entered James Gurney as cover artist but even though he's mentioned on all copyright pages because he's the creator/owner of Dinotopia it was actually Michael Welply who did all the covers. Problem is after I removed cover credit (I didn't enter Welply because while it does say that in archived 3rd printing copy there are some 1st printings of books in the series that misspelled it as Welpley and then corrected that in later printings) I noticed the nomination for best cover in the art record. So I don't know what to make of that; was Gurney nominated because he's the creator or did someone make a mistake and not nominate the real artist, Welply? --Username (talk) 12:58, 18 January 2024 (EST)

Pratchett's Eric - converting into novella?

I did a word count on a digital version of Eric, and it's around 35000 words, i.e. clearly a novella. Comments on the title and various publication records point out how unusually short it is. Locus calls the first edition a novella, but later editions a novel. I think the novella classification is correct, but am hesitant in converting such a high-profile title. Any opinions? TerokNor (talk) 08:01, 19 January 2024 (EST)

My electronic copy contains 34.2K words, so it's a novella. That said, I wonder about Locus changing its classification after the first edition. Is there any indication that later editions may have been longer? Ahasuerus (talk) 11:43, 19 January 2024 (EST)
I can find no indication of there being different editions of the text. I noticed however that after the original illustrated edition (which was billed "A Discworld Story"), it usually says "A Discworld Novel" on the covers, so Locus might have just gone with that. TerokNor (talk) 13:59, 19 January 2024 (EST)
It sounds like it's a novella whose subtitle (but not the word count) was changed in later editions. I suggest we wait for other editors to share their thoughts before we change the type from NOVEL to SHORTFICTION. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:49, 19 January 2024 (EST)
I added an Archive.org link in a PENDING edit to The Illustrated Eric, 2010 Gollancz HC, so that may help with the counting; page count said 144 but it is actually 131. --Username (talk) 12:26, 19 January 2024 (EST)
I have approved the submission that corrected the page count and updated the Note field to indicate where the corrected page count comes from. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:49, 19 January 2024 (EST)
(Chime) Not surprised, don't care, go ahead. ../Doug H (talk) 21:26, 19 January 2024 (EST)

(unindent) Hearing no objection, I have left a message on TerokNor's Talk page asking him to proceed with the proposed changes. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:38, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Thank you. I have submitted the first edit to begin the process. TerokNor (talk) 05:19, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Late Mods

I had a thought while adding FantLab ID to a PV Brian Lumley book today; is there a way to remove the necessity of adding a note to the mod about what changes you made if the mod is deceased? There have been several mod losses recently, most of whom PV countless books, so it would save time to not have to write anything if the only PV's are ones who are not going to read those notes. --Username (talk) 12:23, 19 January 2024 (EST)

I think there are two sides to this issue.
The first one is technical, i.e. whether it would be possible to modify the software to check each primary verifier's Talk page to see if it starts with the "Deceased user" template. The short answer is "Yes, it would be possible, although it would also make our core software more closely intertwined with the Wiki software, which may become a minor nuisance during the next Wiki upgrade".
The second one is functional, i.e. whether making this kind of change would be desirable. I am not sure it would. It would save some keystrokes, but there is value to having more detailed Edit History for primary verified publications even if their verifiers are no longer available. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:42, 19 January 2024 (EST)

Moll/Head Virgin Planet

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5864268; I added cover and prices but I think publisher should be changed to Wyndham, either Star or Tandem or Target which are all on ISFDB related to Wyndham, since their logo is on front and back covers, https://www.ebay.com/itm/143869122299. The other issue is the cover is the same Charles Moll art as earlier US paperbacks; Michael Head was a designer with 1 other ISFDB credit that notes say is just a photo and a Mike Head I noted in an edit earlier today as the designer for Piatkus edition of M. Bingley's Waiting Darkness did a cover which is just a photo of a fist. So where Head credit came from for Virgin Planet I don't know but I think Moll credit should replace it. --Username (talk) 23:09, 19 January 2024 (EST)

One Hundred Years of Science Fiction

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5864915; I'm guessing this Gollancz edition is rare judging by the fact there's almost no photos of the cover online. As can be seen in my edit, notes about year (probably very old and entered by the long-gone Bluesman) are obsolete now because the year is on the title page. Also, the price was entered by Mellotronman from his copy but for a 1969 UK book the pre-decimal price should be entered so that's what I did; problem is in his note to mod in edit history he says other price is 32s, not 30. So if he's still around he may want to PV and add a note about the alternate price (I'm assuming the archived copy's flap is badly framed which is why the other price is not visible) and delete year notes and add a new one saying the date is on the title page. --Username (talk) 12:31, 20 January 2024 (EST)

It doesn't help that two different printings share the same ISBN. Mine says 1970 on the front of the title page and 'second impression 1970' on the back of the same page. The price is most definitely listed on the dust jacket as '32s', an unusual way of writing 'shillings'. The more usual way would be '32/-'. Perhaps the first impression was 30s and the second 32? Mellotronman (talk) 16:55, 20 January 2024 (EST)
OK, I think it makes sense now, copy on Archive.org is '69 1st pr. with just s-price while your 1970 2nd pr. has both s-price and pounds. So after my edit is approved you may want to clone it and enter yours with new date and prices and PV it, too. --Username (talk) 19:07, 20 January 2024 (EST)

Tom Palmer

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?98449; 2 or 3 different Palmers here; novels are by the guy pictured but the art credits are by the recently deceased (2022) famous comic artist who had a still-online site, tompalmerillustration, and a Wiki page as Tom Palmer (comics); the poem, judging by the bio at the archived Aphelion link, is by another likely American Palmer. --Username (talk) 21:58, 20 January 2024 (EST)

Lone Star Law

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?80404; Anyone think this should be deleted? --Username (talk) 17:34, 21 January 2024 (EST)

The Note field says:
  • Western story anthology. It may have some spec-fic stories, but otherwise, there's no reason for it to be in the database.
Have we been able to find this anthology's table of contents and determine whether any of the stories are SF? Ahasuerus (talk) 15:23, 24 January 2024 (EST)
I was able to look at the ToC via the Amazon Look Inside feature for the pb edition (ISBN 978-1982153069) and I don't see anything there that looks like SF. Phil (talk) 15:38, 24 January 2024 (EST)
Reading the editor's introductions to each story I noticed that two stories were called "eerie". After reading them, I can confirm that one is an unambiguous ghost story while the other one is an ambiguous "curse" story. I have added them to the publication record and updated Notes. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:13, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Recording plagiarized work

A couple of days ago File 770 reported (item 5) that "After the Flood" by John Kucera was plagiarised from another author. I've added a note to that title record, but I'm wondering whether anything else should be done, e.g. making it a variant? ErsatzCulture (talk) 01:36, 22 January 2024 (EST)

Unless the poem uses the same wording I'd think the only thing we can do is to add notes to the title (and likely the publications the plagiat was published in). Christian Stonecreek (talk) 01:32, 22 January 2024 (EST)
All three of the works "by" this author that are listed on ISFDB appear to have been plagiarized. I've added notes to the title entries as well as the publication entries. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:59, 22 January 2024 (EST)
Thanks all! ErsatzCulture (talk) 15:22, 22 January 2024 (EST)
At some point, we should probably make them variants since (in all the reports I've read) only the title were changed by the plagiarizer. Similar to this one. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:34, 22 January 2024 (EST)
I've added the variants for the two I could figure out. Still unsure who originally wrote "Summer 1993" and what the original title was. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:15, 22 January 2024 (EST)
How about this one, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2951283? --Username (talk) 16:29, 22 January 2024 (EST)
Looks like it's the same guy per a Google search that brought up this (archive), which is the same thing but under his Kucera name. Now to try to figure out who really wrote it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:06, 22 January 2024 (EST)
Some additional archive links to help us figure out all of this: Wild Word, Lothlorien Poetry Journal (archive), One Art Poetry on X, One Art Poetry, The Fictional Cafe, Sparks of Calliope (see also this page), New Reader Magazine (archive), Wendy N. Wagner loves pie on BlueSky, and I'll add more later. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:31, 22 January 2024 (EST)

(unindent) I suspect that the issue of plagiarized works is going to become harder to deal with in the near future. In the past we had to deal with two types of scenarios:

  • word-for-word reprints with the title/credits changed, usually by shady publishers or self-publishers
  • more elaborate schemes whose perpetrators plagiarized sections of other authors' works

The first type is fairly straightforward, but the second type is hard to catch. For example, volumes 29 and 33 in the Casca series were retroactively removed from the series over allegations of plagiarism in April-June 2013. It happened 3-5 years after their original publication even though the Casca fandom is very active. It's not something that we, bibliographers, can realistically identify on our own.

Over the last few months I have seen a number of reports of plagiarists using software to scrape Web-published stories, massage them using ChatGPT and put them on Amazon, e.g. this episode over the Christmas holidays. I suspect it's going to be a pain to deal with. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:29, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Bard II

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?291859; Wrong cover, it has price and ISBN of earlier printing, I can't find right cover, if anyone else can, can you upload it and replace this one? --Username (talk) 10:47, 22 January 2024 (EST)

Also, The First Long Ship (or Longship on some sites) which has no cover online I can find so if it exists and someone can find it that needs uploading, too. --Username (talk) 11:03, 22 January 2024 (EST)

Galactic Central Images

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5867682; The only other site I can find that has this cover is Camelot Books; I was going to upload it when I thought of checking Philsp and found it hiding there. Is the owner(s) of that site ever going to upgrade to HTTPS? Right-click and "open image in new tab" does show the image but it still would be better if that didn't have to be done. --Username (talk) 12:43, 22 January 2024 (EST)

Last I heard, the owner said that he had no plans to upgrade to HTTPS. That said, browser vendors have been making it harder to access HTTP sites, which puts pressure on site owners to upgrade. It remains to be seen how it may affect Galactic Central in the future. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:21, 24 January 2024 (EST)

German Playboy

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?757; While replacing sideways Amazon cover with better straight cover for one of these books I noticed there are 8 or 9 that don't have cover credits (last book was unpublished so likely no cover exists); since most covers in the series were originally on English-language books it's likely the missing ones were, too, so if anyone can recognize the art then artists can be entered and variants can be made. --Username (talk) 09:08, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Brian Ames Title

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?119003; I added a link to a MOTA anthology over a year ago and there's a 2002 story by Brian Ames which editors before me seemed to have trouble deciding how to enter (see extensive title edit history), eventually settling on a symbol; however, in his collection someone entered the title as "grey blob", which is what it actually looks like in the anthology. So the 2 stories are the same and should be merged but what should the title be entered as? This reminds me of that David J. Schow horror story where nobody can ever decide how to enter it and eventually settled on "scribbled graffiti" or this, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?76213, but at least Oates can get away with that because most of her work is pretentious "literary" stuff, anyway. --Username (talk) 12:22, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Merged here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:39, 24 January 2024 (EST)

Duplicate finder -- NOVEL/CHAPBOOK?

The "Duplicate Finder" program, which exists in three incarnations -- one for Author pages, one for Title pages and one for Publication pages -- searches for potential duplicate titles and then lets you merge them. Its default mode of operations is "exact", which means that two (or more) titles need to have the exact same spelling as well as the same authors in order to be considered potential duplicates.

The "exact" mode also ignores unlikely title type mismatches. For example, if one title record is SHORTFICTION and another one is NOVEL, they won't be flagged as potential duplicates. However, the "exact" mode currently flags NOVEL and CHAPBOOK titles with identical titles and authors as potential duplicates. I am thinking that this is likely more harmful than useful and would like to propose that we change the behavior of the "exact" mode to skip identical NOVEL/CHAPBOOK pairs. Ideas? Ahasuerus (talk) 17:35, 24 January 2024 (EST)

I agree. As it is currently, we could accidentally merge titles incorrectly. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:40, 24 January 2024 (EST)
I also agree. --MartyD (talk) 13:21, 25 January 2024 (EST)
I use that one a lot especially when adding juvenile chapbooks to prolific authors (mainly Fixer's) - because of how Amazon has these, they rarely make it to addPubs and not having the duplicate finder highlight the previously entered novel (a lot of these are stored as novels and need conversion) makes it more likely not to see the other version on the page. So I would rather not lose it... Annie (talk) 18:43, 25 January 2024 (EST)
Let me clarify that the Duplicate Finder's "similar" mode would continue to flag NOVEL, SHORTFICTION and CHAPBOOK titles as potential duplicates after the proposed change. Would it be sufficient for Fixer-originated use cases? Ahasuerus (talk) 21:41, 25 January 2024 (EST)
But we do not have a similar mode in the pubs/titles Duplicate finder. The one I use is the one that triggers when you click on "Check for Duplicate Titles" after a Pub/Title Edit. Which I believe is "exact". If I need to go to the author page every time to run a separate similar mode check, it will add steps. Plus in some of these authors, it will highlight a lot of things which is different from the current case where it is a quick check that finds usually a single match when it does. I can make it work - but it will add to the workflow. One option may be to allow the similar as an option on pub/title duplicate finder - keep the exact as a default but allow a similar to be run with a click how we do it on author page's find duplicates? A separate click which is right there will help.
And this is not just for Fixer usecases - I've needed it when moderating as well often enough in a similar usecase - we have chapbook/novel and a new(ish) member adds the same as the other.
If the proposal is to remove it from the 'Author' exact duplicate finder only with no change for the pub/title duplicate finder, then I am fine with removing it there. But the way the proposal reads, it sounds like we are not going to show it in the default mode in either :) Annie (talk) 10:45, 26 January 2024 (EST)
Thanks for the clarification. I forgot about the fact that the versions of the Duplicate Finder software used on Publication and Title pages do not support "similar" and "aggressive" modes. If memory serves, the reason was performance -- there can be thousands of titles with "similar" spellings where "similar" is defined as an 85% overlap, the current threshold value.
It sounds like what we may need is a new Duplicate Finder mode. Something that would be the same as the "exact" mode except that it would also flag identical CHAPBOOK/NOVEL title pairs. It would be made available on all three Duplicate Finder pages.
If it sounds workable, I can look into what it would take to implement it. I suspect that it should be a fairly straightforward change, but I am not 100% sure. We'll also need to come up with an intuitive name for the new mode. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:11, 26 January 2024 (EST)
That will work for me. And if you are going to do it, we may think about throwing an anthology/collection/omnibus format mix in the same mode (same usecase essentially - especially around juveniles and novellas previously added as novels). And even poem/shortfiction? Maybe simply pull all the format discrepancy matches out from Exact (requiring a format match in it) and move them to their own type of duplicate finder mode. That will also make it less likely for someone to merge by mistake based on the standard duplicate find.Annie (talk) 12:27, 26 January 2024 (EST)
You could have "type" be an independent modifier applied to any of the three modes. Something like "Match identical types only", on by default. That would also be easy to extend to other criteria (e.g., language) in the future without having a cross product of mode choices. --MartyD (talk) 14:26, 26 January 2024 (EST)
Good point! Ahasuerus (talk) 14:43, 26 January 2024 (EST)

(unindent) After experimenting on the development server and paying closer attention when working on the Clean Authors cleanup, I think I have a better appreciation for Annie's concerns. At this point clicking "Check for Duplicate Titles" post-approval is second nature for moderators and self-approvers. When a submission adds a NOVEL publication, it's very helpful to know that a CHAPBOOK pub with the same title already exists in the database, especially if the submitter is a robot. Requiring the approving moderator to click yet another link/button would mess with the workflow.

I suppose we could change the Duplicate Finder logic to ignore CHAPBOOK/NOVEL duplicates by default, but display a yellow warning -- and a link to the more relaxed version of the Duplicate Finder -- if they exist. I am not sure it would be ideal, though. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:34, 31 January 2024 (EST)

As long as it is a link and not a need to go elsewhere or to go to the author level, that will work for me.
I'd also want to ask for the anthology/collection/omnibus and the poem/short fiction checks to be added to the chapbook/novel both for the yellow warning and the more relaxed one - both of these happen often enough to be annoying if we lose the ability to see them on the duplicate finder. Unless the plan is to leave these into the default one - in which case, we are fine. Annie (talk) 11:45, 31 January 2024 (EST)
After thinking some more about this issue, it occurs to me that there may be another way to approach this issue. Currently, most post-approval Web pages display links that let you view/edit the updated/added record or, for some submission types like Make Variant, multiple records. A few post-submission pages also link to the Duplicate Finder or other pages.
However, there is nothing preventing the post-approval software from quietly checking the status of the added/updated record(s) and displaying appropriate warnings. For example, the post-approval page for NewPubs could run the Duplicate Finder behind the scenes and then display a message like:
  • The added publication record includes a title record with the same title and authors as another title record. Use the Duplicate Finder link above to see the details.
This warning message would be easy to implement and moderators would no longer have to worry about forgetting to click "Duplicate Finder" after approving NewPub submissions. Does this sound useful?
If we choose to add this warning message, we could still decide to tweak the Duplicate Finder logic later, but I think the message should be implemented first since it changes the workflow. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:53, 2 February 2024 (EST)
That will be useful -- I am not sure how many false alerts will show up and how they will be treated (especially from the less experienced moderating users - usually the self-approvers) but other from that, any checks the software can do for me are always welcome. Annie (talk) 14:08, 6 February 2024 (EST)
OK, FR 1592, "Warning after approving NewPub submissions which create potential duplicates", has been created. We'll see how useful it will be. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:48, 6 February 2024 (EST)

Duplicate Finder enhancements -- Outcome

FR 1592 has been implemented. After approving NewPub/AddPub/ClonePub/EditPub submissions, moderators and self-approvers will now see a yellow warning and a link to the Duplicate Finder if the created/affected publication record contains one (or more) title records which have the same title(s) and author(s) as other title records in the database. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:58, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Moondust

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?22737; I added a whole bunch of edits for Rosemary Harris books and also found a PDF link for her early uncollected story "Hamlin" at Galactic Journey. Looking through their list of PDF's I noticed a Swann link and, thinking it would be a short story, I clicked it and it turned out to be the full original edition of his novel Moondust which has no copies at the usual places like Internet Archive or Luminist. I'm guessing there's more novels hiding in that list but for now I'll just ask if anyone owns the book and wouldn't mind transcribing the text on the last 2 pages and adding it to the record because those are missing in the PDF. I'm not sure what copyright rules are for a 50+-year-old book but I think a page or two would count as an excerpt and wouldn't bother anyone, right? --Username (talk) 11:43, 25 January 2024 (EST)

That can get complicated. Since this was first published in 1968 in the United States, and if it was published with a copyright notice, the copyright expires at the end of 2063 (meaning it becomes public domain on January 1, 2064). If it was published without a copyright notice, since it was published between 1964 and 1977, it is now in the public domain. See here for more details. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:27, 25 January 2024 (EST)
Looking at the PDF copy from the link you submitted, the copyright notice is very clear on the back of the title page. This means the copyright doesn't expire until 2064, so we shouldn't be linking to a pirated PDF copy. I rejected the link addition. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:30, 25 January 2024 (EST)
So does that mean that all the 330 or so Luminist.org PDF's currently linked on ISFDB are pirated, too? Because I don't think most of those are public domain; I would know because I'm the one who added most of the links. Has any mod in the history of this site ever gotten a request from anyone to remove a Luminist PDF? I'd be curious to know. When someone pirates something and uploads it, they love to add their name, fake as it may be, to the upload, similar to how computer game crackers decades ago loved to add their names to the crack, usually with some animation and music (which were sometimes better than those in the game itself); believe me, I could easily add hundreds of Internet Archive links to rare books right now except for the fact that the uploaders converted them to crap e-editions with removed page numbers. I don't see anything like that in Moondust so it's likely someone's personal copy they converted to a PDF; it's clearly the original paperback with page numbers and a bookstore sticker on the cover and everything. Since Swann died in 1976 and the last reprint as far as ISFDB (and WorldCat) say was in 1977 I doubt anyone would care if a PDF was linked to here; any serious collector would want a physical copy. My suggestion would be to un-reject it. Barring that, I'll just go ahead and make a note with the address of the PDF but not hot-linked so people know where it is but actually have to paste the URL into the address bar themselves in order to get it. --Username (talk) 17:47, 25 January 2024 (EST)
This guy, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?286234, runs the site. Looks legit to me; he even published a magazine of the same title. --Username (talk) 18:08, 25 January 2024 (EST)
The question about the status of Luminist-hosted PDF files is an interesting one. I should first note that I became aware of the Luminist Web site back in 2010 when we were given permission to link to Luminist-hosted images. I was under the impression that the files that they host were similar to Gutenberg-hosted "copyright-cleared" files, which is why I have been approving their addition for the last few years.
However, reading the copyright statement on the main Luminist page:
  • This collection may contain copyrighted material which has not been specifically authorized for our use. The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) provides for making “fair use” copies of copyrighted materials under certain conditions, including that that the reproduction is not to be used commercially or “for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research.” By accessing files linked to this site you are agreeing to abide by these restrictions. If you do not agree, do not download. If any copyright owner objects to our inclusion of their material on this web site, please do not harass our hosting providers; just contact us with the pertinent information. We will remove contested content promptly upon receipt of legitimate requests. Readers who wish to obtain a permanent copy of any item are encouraged to acquire one from a bookseller of their choice. Readers may contact us for assistance in locating copies for purchase.
I see that they expect their users to download PDF files for "private study, scholarship, or research" purposes and, apparently, not for permanent use. This relies on an interpretation of the "fair use" doctrine which seems a bit too stretchy to me, but I am not an expert in the field. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:09, 25 January 2024 (EST)
OK, sounds good to me, "private study" clearly can mean reading the book and since they're being linked at ISFDB that covers the scholarship/research part. Also, what I took to be a Galactic Journey magazine is just a few random pages from the webzine with a couple of essay links, 1 of which is movie-related and probably doesn't qualify, but there's some Hugo Award nomination so I guess they count; the first entry is totally blank and was actually entered by user "galacticjourney" himself with mods questioning on his page why he entered it since it's a webzine. The site is still running currently and has hundreds of essays, many of which would be suitable for entry here, I'm sure. --Username (talk) 18:25, 25 January 2024 (EST)
Let me clarify what I meant by "a bit too stretchy". The part of the Copyright Law that they cite -- "for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research" -- doesn't come from the "fair use" clause (Section 107 of the Copyright Act.) Instead it comes from Section 108, "Reproduction by libraries and archives". Section 108 is a lengthy section with a set of provisions that are completely different from the "fair use" provisions in Section 107. It's odd that the Luminist Web site cites Section 108 ("libraries and archives") language to support what they state is a Section 107 ("fair use") exception.
I should add that both Section 107 and Section 108 lawsuits can get complex and technical as we saw during Hachette v. Internet Archive in 2020-2023. My knowledge of these topics is very limited, but hopefully other editors may have more in-depth knowledge and/or relevant experience in this field. Ahasuerus (talk) 21:38, 25 January 2024 (EST)
I have started a Rules and Standards discussion to see if we can come up with unambiguous rules for linking to third party-hosted texts. Ahasuerus (talk) 20:50, 26 January 2024 (EST)

Reactor?!?

I was at my awful local public library printing out various articles and short stories for free which is the only positive thing about libraries these days and after my hour was up I realized I forgot to check Tor.com to see if they published any new fiction (horror only, please, no SF or fantasy) so I checked when I got home and got a scary-looking page which made me think a computer virus had finally taken hold of my laptop after not having one for many years but it turns out that Tor apparently has re-named themselves Reactor. Is anyone else aware of this? --Username (talk) 17:08, 26 January 2024 (EST)

Yes, they announced it a few weeks ago. New site, new name (to differentiate them from the Tor.com publisher), same team, same contents. All the old links to their old site should be forwarding cleanly to the new one. Annie (talk) 17:30, 26 January 2024 (EST)
And the announcement and Q&A about it. Annie (talk) 17:31, 26 January 2024 (EST)
I suspect that the part of the FAQ that is most likely to affect us is this:
  • SFF literature is still the heart of what we do, and that’s our priority. We’ll just also be open to related subjects of interest, from nonfic to romantasy, pirates to gardening, and so on.
So it looks like they will have more non-genre content going forward, but they expect to remain primarily SF-oriented for the foreseeable future. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:23, 26 January 2024 (EST)

Chinese Godzilla?

https://archive.org/search?query=%E6%80%AA%E7%8D%A3%E3%82%B4%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A9&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22; If anyone knows what this is about and decides it warrants entering, thanks. --Username (talk) 18:18, 29 January 2024 (EST)

Magic German Cats

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?33710; There was a 1999 German edition under a new title, https://archive.org/details/katmagie13katten0000unse, in case anyone fluent wants to enter that. --Username (talk) 10:02, 30 January 2024 (EST)

ZOLTAR

[2]; Polish primary verifier seemed to be very active in 2012 and then nothing, they left a lot of their 300+ PV unfinished with missing info, mentioning this in case anyone fluent in Polish wants to follow up on any of them and add or fix anything. I thought of this before but remembered it today after finding a photo for Jerzy Sosnowski on FantLab and an archived copy of the anthology PL +50 which his story on ISFDB appears in. --Username (talk) 12:45, 30 January 2024 (EST)

verification email

I have tried several times to elicit a verification email but nothing has arrived. I've checked junk & trash as well. Is this simply not working? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Starman99 (talk • contribs) .

I am afraid this is a common occurrence, which we discuss in the ISFDB FAQ:
  • Different email servers have different automated rules which may block email coming from certain Web sites, which makes it hard to tell what's preventing ISFDB confirmation email from being delivered to your mailbox.
  • Note, however, that confirmation emails are optional as far as ISFDB is concerned. As long as you can log in, you have full access to all ISFDB features including Advanced Search, display preferences, submission creation etc.
Since you were able to post the message above, you should be all set :-) Ahasuerus (talk) 18:11, 30 January 2024 (EST)

Ace Dates

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5872024; Can someone on the long list of editors find out where someone got month from? Whoever entered many of these old PB long ago was very random about noting where they got the month, but I remember it was a checklist or something so that's likely where this one came from, too. I thought it would be obvious why I added the month since it's there throughout the contents but I guess not. --Username (talk) 23:27, 30 January 2024 (EST)

Berthon

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=theodore+le&type=Name; Space in first entry separates same essay from its appearances elsewhere; no essay title page I can find but I did see a contents page of Frankenstein File that says, um, Ted Le Berthon, https://www.ebay.com/itm/334647759422. So, if anyone can verify, a merge or variant will be needed. --Username (talk) 00:08, 31 January 2024 (EST)

I'm looking for a book title

Hello everyone, I'm looking for a book title. I read the book years ago probably in the 80s. A quick summary the world is divided by a massive mountain range. I think that the protagonist must climb the mountain range in order to become the ruler. They climb the mountain only to find a deep valley on the other side with an even higher mountain range behind it. The protagonist ultimately climbs the second mountain range where they find another land on the far side with another intelligent species. This has been driving me batty and I would appreciate it if anyone knows what this books title is and who wrote it. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment added by Firefighterbgrg (talk • contribs) 19:21, February 1, 2024‎

If no one here is able to help you, we have a section in our FAQ that gives several places where you can ask for help finding the book. Good luck! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:15, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Darrah Chavey

I learn via Ansible today that Darrah Chavey left this mortal coil on 6 January. He was always a learned and consistent editor to work alongside at the ISFDB... Happy trails Darrah, Rest In Peace. :( PeteYoung (talk) 10:39, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Yes, indeed. There was a brief Community Portal discussion on 2024-01-11 and Darrah's database record was updated. RIP. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:01, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Gardner F. Fox's text story in "Strange Adventures"

Earlier today a Usenet poster pointed out that Gardner F. Fox published "The Magic Maker of Rann", a text story, in the comic Strange Adventures #226. The story is lavishly illustrated, but the text works just fine even if you were to reprint it without illustrations, which is how we determine whether a story is "graphic".

The whole thing is available online, illustrations included. Should we treat Strange Adventures as a non-genre periodical and list this story? Ahasuerus (talk) 16:32, 2 February 2024 (EST)

I've entered a number of Eando Binder stories from the Lieutenant Jon Jarl of the Space Patrol series that originally appeared in Captain Marvel Adventures comic, and I entered them in exactly the manner you suggest. I believe some of these stories have been reprinted as text alone, so I felt I was on pretty safe ground. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 16:43, 2 February 2024 (EST)

Lost Ark Storybook

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5880702; ISBN belongs to Scholastic edition judging by a back cover I saw online. There's a later (3rd) trade printing on Archive.org with trade and library ISBN on the copyright page so either this record should be made Scholastic or a new record created for Random House edition(s). I've been adding dozens of Wikipedia links to novelizations recently and I've come across some other issues like this (only one I can remember is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade by Anne Digby which has pub. series as Hippo Books but that actually belongs to the UK edition which I made a new record for) so when these are approved a check and some fixing/adding is probably needed for at least a few of them. --Username (talk) 12:50, 3 February 2024 (EST)

Rise of the Silver Surfer

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?346021; I made an edit fixing typo "udpated" to "updated", surprisingly the only such error on all of ISFDB, and realized that this edition was likely never published with AbeBooks having a weird "cover to be unveiled" photo. So unless someone can find evidence of a copy I think this should get the unpublished date. --Username (talk) 19:30, 3 February 2024 (EST)

Parnassus Wizard of Earthsea

https://archive.org/details/wizardofearthsea00ursu; I added a link to a Parnassus edition based on someone's extensive notes here (no number line or smudge on title page) but there are some editions of this book only linked from Open Library including the one above which has a price much higher than any other book from the publisher on ISFDB but copyright page has same info as 1969 2nd printing so if anyone knows a way to determine the date a new edition can be added. There's an ancient ISFDB bibliography from 2006 by Ahasuerus, https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Author:Ursula_K._Le_Guin, which could probably use some updating unless it's been updated somewhere else. --Username (talk) 20:08, 4 February 2024 (EST)

Pranks

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?17626; I've made edits for all editions before, original 1983 Amazon cover seems to have disappeared leading to a broken image so I replaced it, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5882029, then I replaced OL/Archive cover which is too dark with an Amazon cover, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5882020, that isn't great but is brighter and still retains the sparkly stuff on the title that Leisure used to attract people to buy their books which then led to disappointment when the buyers realized the novels themselves were usually crap, the latest edition is fine as is, so now I think the 1983 edition with the wrong price and ISBN should be deleted and the image uploaded by Chris J. should be removed from the Wiki since it seems to be the badly creased cover that's still on Amazon with unnecessary back cover included. --Username (talk) 11:17, 5 February 2024 (EST)

Felix Kelly

I entered new records for Faber anthologies Best Murder Stories and Best Murder Stories 2 which are mostly genre or by genre authors; I also looked at Best Tales of Terror, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?4213, and even though I know I've seen that cover many times I never noticed until seeing it full-sized on FantLab that there's a very clear signature lower right, FELIX KELLY. I entered that in an edit but the problem is that the record for him, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?255975, might be the same artist who did the 1956 art but can't be the guy from 1879. So there may be 2 Felix Kellys in case anyone can find out more and separate them into 2 records; it's also possible that the 1956 art was not new but taken from something drawn by the older Kelly. --Username (talk) 10:09, 6 February 2024 (EST)

Also added Margaret Wolpe as cover artist for Best Tales of Terror 2; no signature I can see but FantLab credits her + there's a copy on Dalby's site whose front flap says she did "jacket design" and the art does look like many of her other Faber covers. Also greatly updated her record with lots of bio info and noted she was married to Berthold, also an artist, and updated his record as well. Dalby's copy has a pounds price sticker covering another pound price so I'm getting the impression Faber reprinted their anthologies many times with no way to tell except the prices kept getting higher; lots of printings are probably missing so if anyone has any not on ISFDB it would be good to enter them. --Username (talk) 11:03, 6 February 2024 (EST)

The Adventure of the Peerless Peer

Are there any objections to converting this to a novella? The recent ebook reprint is marked as 27k words by Kobo USA and looking at the page numbers and some of the other editions, it does feel too small to be a novel. Thanks! Annie (talk) 17:41, 6 February 2024 (EST)

It's definitely a novella. The Titan Books edition (2011) is well over 200 pages and looks like a bona fide novel, but its apparent length is due to the addition of a very long promotional excerpt from Kim Newman's Moriarty: The Hound of the D'Urbervilles. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:16, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Termush - convert to novella

Another recent reprint shows this one as 25k words in English (Kobo USA count) which will leave it well short of 40K in its original Danish as well. Any objections to converting this to a novella? Annie (talk) 18:27, 6 February 2024 (EST)

John Stanley

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5883789; See my note about artist, that Little Lulu credit in the original Stanley record belongs with I's record because, as my note in the original says, he was born in '39 or '40 so he would only have been 9 or 10 if he did that art which is unlikely; this is the right Stanley, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stanley_(cartoonist). The Melvin Monster credits belong with I, too. I have to assume the Fengriffen Stanley is not the same as I because it's a UK edition and he's American plus it's a photograph, not drawn. --Username (talk) 00:10, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Doolin

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?431777; Late PV entered James Doolin based on signature but there is none, FantLab photo has initials JPD, it's actually Joseph Doolin, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?27894, and he has an entry for the same art, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1590968. --Username (talk) 10:48, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Uncorrected Proofs

I'm holding this submission to update this record. I noticed that the record states that it was unpublished (8888-00-00), yet there appears to be a cover that was just added. More importantly it also describes this as an "uncorrected proof" and I had thought that proofs were outside of our scope. The policy specifically excludes Advance Reading Copies unless available for sale to the public. Do uncorrected proofs differ from ARCs in terms of determining scope? This seems straightforward to me and I believe the publication should be deleted. If others disagree and this requires a full discussion, we can move this the the Rules and Standards board. Thoughts? Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:59, 7 February 2024 (EST)

I read the rules the same way you do - ARCs and uncorrected proofs are out. However, we do keep records of unpublished but announced books (these are in scope under the announced but never published (entered as "unpublished") part of ROA) so I would not delete this one as it is under that category. So ARC/uncorrected proof of a book that comes out will not be eligible but if the book never makes it out, adding the notes about it into the 8888 book are fine I think. Annie (talk) 11:22, 7 February 2024 (EST)
Comparing this publication record with other, published, editions of the book, I note that it has a different ISBN in addition to a different publisher name. I typically enter announced-then-canceled ISBNs as 8888-00-00 publication records under the rule referenced by Annie. Their presence in our database helps answer a common question: "Whatever happened to this apparent first edition? Why can't I find any copies for sale?" We all know how obsessed collectors can get when it comes to first editions and our database is frequently the only readily accessible place that explains what happened to a "disappeared" ISBN. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:51, 7 February 2024 (EST)
I've no argument with a publication record for an announced, but unpublished book. However, an unpublished book and an uncorrected proof are two different things. The notes on this record confuse the issue as to what the record represents. The addition of a cover scan and artist further confuses things. How are we able to display a cover of a book that was never published? I would suggest that the notes be reworked to indicate that a proof was done as evidence of the planned publication. We could replace the first two sentences with "The Bluejay Books imprint was dissolved late in 1986 just after an uncorrected proof for this planned edition was printed in September of that year." I would also recommend deleting the cover of the proof and rejecting the addition of an artist. I do worry that if we were to make an exception and allow a record specifically for an uncorrected proof when the book is never published, it would encourage the addition of other proofs and ARCs especially by those editors who surmise rules by examples of what is already in the database. If others think this should be a valid exception to allow records for proofs, then we should document it in the scope page as is done with ARCs offered for sale. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:00, 7 February 2024 (EST)
That sounds like a plan and the proposed change in the notes sounds fine to me - that will make it clear that the record is here because the book was announced and not because it had an ARC/uncorrected proofs done. I am at two minds about the cover - if it was announced with the book, recording it makes sense as it may help trace it to an artist later on and as it is part of the record after all. But other from that - I agree that we need to be careful not to confuse ARCs and unpublished books per se - although when a publication fails through often varies so there are ARCs out there for books that do not make it - that one being an example. Maybe all we need is to strengthen the language to specify that the exclusion is for books that end up being published - thus allowing the usecase we have here without a concern. Annie (talk) 19:06, 7 February 2024 (EST)
I agree that the pub record should stay because it falls under "announced but never published" and agree with Ron that the problem with it as it stands is that the pub note gives the impression that the record has been created for the proof, not the unpublished book. Ron's tweak to the pub note solves this problem.
Further notes and suggestions:
1) I agree that mentioning the proof in the pub note is a good idea. It is evidence that the book was announced.
2) I definitely think the cover image should be deleted. It should either be omitted or of the final cover. The latter assumes the publisher reached that stage and that we could find the image. All very unlikely. The cover image is more than just the artwork; it's also the colouring, wording, layout and typography and those aspects of the proof cover clearly wouldn't reflect the final version.
3) I would delete the OCLC/WorldCat External ID and just mention it in the pub note because it refers specifically to the uncorrected proof and not the unpublished final work.
4) I'm ambivalent about importing the coverart record. It's clear from the cover of the proof that Ron Walotsky was the intended artist so this falls under "announced but never published" but it would need a pub note explaining the source and why there's no image.
5) I'm broadly against making an exception for including ARC's / proofs when the book was unpublished although I do see Annie's point of view. But I think it's an unnecessary complication and veers back towards Ron's point about "encourage the addition of other proofs and ARC's especially by those editors who surmise rules by examples of what is already in the database" which is something I strongly agree we want to avoid. Also, if we do permit this exception, how do we implement it? Does it mean we would have two pub records: one for the unpublished work and one for the proof? Teallach (talk) 07:46, 8 February 2024 (EST)
I've gone ahead and change the notes as discussed above. I've also moved the Worldcat number and the cover into the notes so that it's clear the record is for the unpublished work and not for the proof. I'll reject the held edit. Let me know if someone disagrees with these changes. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:47, 12 February 2024 (EST)

N. Carroll

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?165703; The stories belong with the other Carroll but that ndp thing doesn't look right to me so maybe some other differing addition should replace it. --Username (talk) 23:58, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Author attribution on the three stories, initially credited to Noël Carrol, has been corrected. John Scifibones 07:57, 8 February 2024 (EST)
Thanks. I still think it's weird about that (ndp) because there's thousands of nom de plumes on ISFDB but this is the only one that has that added on the end of the name. --Username (talk) 08:28, 8 February 2024 (EST)
Well, we have some with (pseudonym) attached, and I'd think that'd be more meaningful (ndp isn't a colloquial abbreviation), or just a (I) attached. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 11:52, 8 February 2024 (EST)
I don't think we should use any parentheticals if we can avoid it. Since we have the (I) thing we already use extensively, I think that would be the best option for any that are currently using "(pseudonym)" as a disambiguator. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:20, 8 February 2024 (EST)
There are reasons why I chose to set the author up as Noel Carroll (ndp). However, it's not worth our time to debate. I have changed it to Noel Carroll. Not sure that the standards imply that Roman numerals are the preferred dismbiguator. Here is the applicable help section. Thanks for your interest, John Scifibones 14:06, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Karen Simmons

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1117998; She's the wife of Dan Simmons, credited for author photograph in the HC which can be seen on eBay, [3], art is likely by one of the regular Headline cover artists, Chris Moore maybe, but I don't see a signature. So her credit should be removed. I noticed a 2nd printing of the Headline PB on Archive.org which has that same art (and price) but different blurbs on top and bottom so I'm going to enter that now. --Username (talk) 10:37, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Hi! There's a primary verification by Faustus. It'd be meaningful if you contact him to shed some light on the actual credit. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 11:49, 8 February 2024 (EST)
Hi! There's no credit on the PB because there's no author photo like there is on the back of the HC. 2nd printing PB I just entered has no art credit. I'm sure someone here familiar with UK PB artists will identify it in some artist's book sooner or later but it's certainly not by Dan's wife. --Username (talk) 12:08, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Wesso

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5885644; Wiki says 1893. Anyone here who can find proof it's really 1894? I looked for a headstone but couldn't find one. --Username (talk) 13:49, 8 February 2024 (EST)

Story about the Premiere of Rite of Spring

I'm looking for the short story (probably from 1970s) about recreating the experience of the premiere of The Rite of Spring by giving all of the audience members a new drug. I believe this was in one of the better short story annuals of the era.

Most of my book collection is in storage, alas, so I can't find this by leafing through my old pulp. —The preceding unsigned comment added by Martycohen36 (talk • contribs) 17:38, February 8, 2024‎

Black Christmas

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?878255; While entering Wikipedia links for tons of novelizations I came across this rare 1976 one for the classic 1974 horror film. The original edition is apparently very rare because I've looked everywhere and can't find a copyright page that doesn't have the word FANGORIA on it because apparently Fangoria Magazine reprinted it in 2008 (although there is very little mention of this online). It does include the original info so I was able to enter the month (February, which is odd because you'd think it would be late in the year to capitalize on the holiday) but if anyone has a 1976 copy can you verify what it says on it? The film was Canadian and book says "Printed in Canada" so possibly it was only published there in which case the price will need a C added to it. --Username (talk) 09:18, 9 February 2024 (EST)

Riddle of the Exodus

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?185298; Not fiction, religious history book, https://openlibrary.org/works/OL8166080W/The_Riddle_of_the_Exodus?edition=key%3A/books/OL8566162M, probably should be deleted. --Username (talk) 11:30, 9 February 2024 (EST)

Deleted. I question if the author of the religious book is the same author as of the BattleTech books. I couldn't find anything on the religious author's sites that connect him to the BattleTech books. I will ping the active verifier for the BattleTech book to see if there is an author blurb. If not (or it indicates it is a different author), I will remove the the current author info from James D. Long. -- JLaTondre (talk) 12:31, 10 February 2024 (EST)
Philfreund has confirmed the BattleTech book provides no biographical information on the author. I have removed the author info from James D. Long as it is more than likely a different person. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:28, 11 February 2024 (EST)

Mutant Chronicles

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?250352; I replaced the cover; if anyone knows about the old one, whether it was an early one that was rejected or if it belongs to a different edition, a note about early art or a new record for the other edition if it exists would be good. --Username (talk) 20:09, 11 February 2024 (EST)

Lieutenant Teasdale R.O.N.

I need to make several changes to the pub records for Lieutenant Teasdale R.O.N.. The tp edition has a sole PV by the late Biomassbob but he somehow missed showing that Paula Goodlett is the co-author of the work. Amazon also shows the pub date for that edition as 2023-12-07, not 2023-12-02 as currently shown in the pub record. The 12-07 date makes more sense since all of the other self-published books by Gorg Hoff and Paula Goodlett have the ebook edition published the day prior to the tp edition. Any objection to my making changes? Phil (talk) 12:21, 12 February 2024 (EST)

Mistakes happen :) Go ahead - make sure the notes clarify where the date is coming from. And while you are there, we do not use "Independently published" as a publisher - so can you also fix that (author names are used when there is no publisher). I will sort out the other 2 we have under that publisher later today. Thanks for finding this one! :) Annie (talk) 13:44, 12 February 2024 (EST)
Done. I also corrected the title for the Interiorart maps record to match current standards. Phil (talk) 15:29, 12 February 2024 (EST)

Locus1 Secondary Verifications

Occasionally I come across pubs that have been SVd to Locus1 solely on the basis of their mention as the first edition of a later publication. The first one I encountered, as a very rookie editor, was this one: David Brin / Sundiver. I asked the SVer, Rtrace, about it and received this explanation. For the purposes of this thread I shall refer to these as "indirect listings".
The most recent one I have encountered is David Gerrold / Chess with a Dragon and it is this pub record that has prompted this thread because there is a clear contradiction between the SV to Locus1 and the pub note "Locus1 fails to list this pub (as of 2010-06-21)."
So my question is: should these indirect listings be allowed as SVs to Locus1? If I ruled the world I would not permit them because I don't think they conform to a general user's expectation of a Locus1 listing and they can cause confusion and inconsistencies as demonstrated by the Gerrold record. However, I do not feel strongly about this. I accept Ron's point that these indirect listings provide at least as much information as Clute/Nicholls and if the consensus is that they should be allowed then I can live quite happily with this.
However, if we do allow them then this Help page: Reference:Verification_Sources needs amendment. The matrix currently states that Locus1 provides "All" the information for fields such as Pages, Price and others but this is not true for the indirect listings. So either:
a) The relevant fields for Locus1 should be changed from "All" to "Some" (or maybe "Most").
or
b) A note should be added to the page explaining Locus1 indirect listings and clarifying that the values in the matrix for Locus1 only apply to full listings.
I prefer solution b).
Opinions please. Teallach (talk) 18:38, 15 February 2024 (EST)

An interesting point. So basically Locus1 has two types of records. One type covers editions published between 1984 and 2007 and includes publication details. The other type covers first editions (including editions published before 1984) and only lists their year and publisher. In an ideal world, we may want to create a separate Secondary Verification type for the latter and call it something like "Locus1-First Edition". Unfortunately, I am not sure it would be feasible since we have over 50,000 Locus1 verifications and separating them would be a very time-consuming project. If we decide not to do it, then I agree that we should update Reference:Verification_Sources to reflect the fact that not all Locus1-verified publication records can be expected to have publication level data.
As far as cases like David Gerrold's Chess with a Dragon go, I would reword Notes. Instead of saying "Locus1 fails to list this pub (as of 2010-06-21)", I would say something like "Locus1 doesn't have a detailed record for this edition, but multiple records for reprint editions refer to it as the first edition." Ahasuerus (talk) 12:48, 16 February 2024 (EST)
Yes, I realised when I started the thread that if we disallow the Locus1 indirect listings there could be a legacy issue of past records SVd to Locus1 that would be difficult to amend. This is often a problem when rules and standards are changed. So although in theory I would vote to disallow these cases, I accept it is not practical to do so. Consequently I am happy with leaving them as they are and updating Reference:Verification_Sources to reflect the fact that not all Locus1-verified publication records can be expected to have publication level data, which we both agree with.
I am working on David Gerrold / Chess with a Dragon and so will incorporate the change to the Locus1 pub note as you suggest. Teallach (talk) 17:08, 16 February 2024 (EST)
Hearing no objection, I have clarified the "Locus1" row of Reference:Verification Sources. Thanks for identifying this issue. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:12, 26 February 2024 (EST)
Thank you. Teallach (talk) 16:27, 2 March 2024 (EST)

Necronomicon in Sweden

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=d+bergho&type=Name; First name likely misspelled by PV (or magazine it appeared in) and essay is in second name's record with a much earlier date. --Username (talk) 23:47, 15 February 2024 (EST)

Garland Library of SF

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?8067; I made a couple of edits adding archived link, LCCN and cover image to Past Master when I noticed that there is 1 book in the series with a UK price and 1 without any price. So if anyone can fill in the missing one and add US one (moving UK to notes) for the other then everything will be uniform. --Username (talk) 09:44, 16 February 2024 (EST)

Lou J. Berger

The author has requested we change his canonical name from Lou J. Berger to "Lou J Berger" (no period after the "J"). See mod note here. Any objections? John Scifibones 15:32, 16 February 2024 (EST)

Checking Amazon.com's Look Inside, I see that the name was spelled "Lou J. Berger" in 2013-2014 and changed to "Lou J Berger" in 2015/2016. By now the majority of the stories use the "Lou J Berger" form of the name, so it should be our canonical name. We just need to make sure that we use the right form for the transitional (2015-2016) period. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:05, 16 February 2024 (EST)
Author attributions were reviewed and corrected resulting in compliance with the author's request. John Scifibones 15:16, 17 February 2024 (EST)

Locus on Microfilm

I recently added links to the handful of random print issues of Locus that are on Archive.org, one a very early issue and the others more recent, but I just stumbled on a huge cache of microfilmed 1973-2015 issues uploaded by MicrofilmIssueGenerator so I added a link, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5893289. Not sure if this is known about already but if not I'm sure it will come in handy here for research. --Username (talk) 19:39, 16 February 2024 (EST)

Server maintenance 2024-02-18 at 11am EST

The server will be down for maintenance later today (2024-02-18) between 11am and 11:10am EST. Ahasuerus (talk) 10:20, 18 February 2024 (EST)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:06, 18 February 2024 (EST)

Sword of the Samurai

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5894874; I have owned a copy since the 1980s and PV it here in 2022, copy uploaded to Archive.org last summer but not added until a few days ago, I think I got the right page count but if anyone disagrees feel free to tweak it a bit, you don't have to ask me. --Username (talk) 11:41, 18 February 2024 (EST)

I see a note in the UK edition's record here says [236] so I think they counted the illustration between the first 19 pages and the start of the novel itself. Should that count? --Username (talk) 11:44, 18 February 2024 (EST)
I would count it one way or the other, either as part of the introductory material (so, technically on [20]) or as part of the main material. A page number on that first page of main text would have been a useful guide.... I found an eBay listing of the Puffin edition that has some interior photographs. Not of the page in question, but the TOC and other leading material looks identical to what Archive.org shows for the edition you have. Extrapolating that to content that follows it suggests Reginald did count that illustration as part of the main material. Given the [236] there, what I will do is tweak your count to [236] and add a note about the illustration's appearance relative to the text on the surrounding pages. Just trying to save you an edit cycle; feel free to adjust it to be however you prefer -- I do not mean to insist on anything. --MartyD (talk) 12:07, 18 February 2024 (EST)
Sounds good, thanks. --Username (talk) 12:18, 18 February 2024 (EST)

Bibliographic impact of the 2023 Hugo Awards

The current pre-release cover of Samantha Mills's debut novel The Wings Upon Her Back says "Nebula and Hugo Award Winner". On 2024-02-17 Mills disavowed the award and announced that she would have "Hugo winner" removed from future editions of the book:

  • “Rabbit Test” unwins the Hugo: ... on Tuesday I’ll send a very awkward email to my agent and editor summarizing the situation ... and figure out the logistics of removing “Hugo winner” from the ebook and future printings. The first print run will be a limited edition novelty, I suppose? Jeez.

This may not be an isolated occurrence since, as Samantha Mills wrote (among other things):

  • On February 14, a report written by Jason Sanford and Chris M. Barkley was simultaneously released on the Genre Grapevine and File770. ... we also got a look at the validation list itself, aka the tables of frontrunner nominees being vetted for the final ballot, and a horrible pattern emerged, especially in the fiction categories: there were a whole lot of Chinese nominees in frontrunner positions who just… vanished, and never made it onto the final ballot. There were so many, in fact, that if I am reading this document correctly: not a single fiction winner (short story, novelette, novella, novel, or series) would have even been a finalist if those nominees hadn’t been taken off.
  • There’s an indicator of why in the apology letter from the admin who leaked the emails and validation tables: “We were told there was collusion in a Chinese publication that had published a nominations list, a slate as it were, and so those ballots were identified and eliminated.”

From our perspective, this means that we will need to:

  • Update the “Rabbit Test” Award record to indicate that the author disavowed the award, similar to how this award record explains that Judy-Lynn del Rey's posthumous "Best Professional Editor" award was refused by her husband Lester del Rey.
  • Keep an eye on The Wings Upon Her Back to make sure that the correct covers are used for the first and any subsequent editions of the novel.
  • Be on the lookout for possible other announcements of authors disavowing 2023 Hugo awards.
  • Occasionally check "Worldcon Intellectual Property" announcements. On January 30, 2024 they issued a statement censuring multiple people "for actions of the Hugo Administration Committee of the Chengdu Worldcon" and said that "There may be other actions taken or to be taken that are not in this announcement." If and when they make additional statements about the Hugos awarded at the 2023 Worldcon, we may need to update our records.

Ahasuerus (talk) 12:55, 19 February 2024 (EST)

Earlier today Adrian Tchaikovsky disavowed his 2023 Hugo award for Best Series on his Web site. The award record has been updated. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:56, 21 February 2024 (EST)
These notes are exactly the correct action for us, I think. If we had notes for an award year, it would probably be desirable to add something for the 2023 Hugos. Although, getting a properly neutral description of the controversy free of personal biases (and I have many in this instance), would be tricky. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
One of the challenges that the 2023 Hugos present is that it's still a developing story. What we knew 10 days ago is very different from what we know today. Perhaps we'll learn more in the future.
For example, back in late January I came across a re-post/translation of a Chinese fan's comments about the Hugos. The post stated that the fan had been involved in the Hugo process (committee member?) and that he or she had a conflict with Chinese members of the Hugo committee with various accusations flying back and forth. At the time I had trouble parsing the post, in part due to lacking context and in part due to the quality of the translation. In retrospect it may have been related to the following email sent by Dave McCarthy on June 7, 2023 at 6:18pm (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_QqmsxQkACoYcxSx2LVqbxD39-DJI_gS/view), which says:
  • Tomorrow I have a 4 hour meeting with my chinese counterparts to look at ballot detail and determine if any ballots are to be voided
Perhaps either this fan or other members of the 2023 Hugo committee may clarify matters at some point. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:33, 22 February 2024 (EST)
It would especially be useful to note that the nomination totals and the EPH points appear to be completely unreliable, since those are noted in each nomination award record. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
One thing that comes to mind is that we could change the way opening sentences are phrased. Instead of the current "1674 valid ballots cast, 944 valid ballots cast in category" we could say something like "According to the voting statistics released on 2024-01-20, there were 1674 valid ballots cast, 944 valid ballots cast in category". It's not much, but it would at least clarify which version of the stats our records use. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:20, 22 February 2024 (EST)
I've added your suggested text to the records in the Best Novel category. In addition to the ballot count at the head, I've also added it to the nomination numbers at the foot. I think it's more important there as that is where there is evidence of shenanigans. In any case, let me know if it looks good and I can update the remaining records or we tweak it if desired. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:26, 27 February 2024 (EST)
Everything looks good, thanks. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:40, 27 February 2024 (EST)
I recall that award year notes has been suggested before and there may be a feature request, though I suspect that how the award tables are structured may make this difficult. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
Yes, indeed. FR 1086, "Change the award year field to a drop-down list", says "Create a new record type for award years. We can call it something like "award year" or "award ceremony". Once we have it, we will be able to add notes to award years. Notes can be used to specify when the awards were announced, when and where they were given, eligibility rules changes, etc." Unfortunately, as you said, it would be fairly time-consuming to implement. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:12, 22 February 2024 (EST)
In any case, I do have one suggestion for the del Rey award record. We currently have the explanation of the non-acceptance of the award noted in the title field of what should be an untitled award. Perhaps we didn't have award level notes at the point that award was added. I feel that the verbiage in the title should be moved to notes and replaced with "untitled". --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:57, 22 February 2024 (EST)
I agree. It's exactly as you said -- award records didn't have a Notes field back then. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:12, 22 February 2024 (EST)
I've updated this and expanded the comment as a note taking my queue from Judy-Lynn's Wikipedia article. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:26, 27 February 2024 (EST)
Thanks. I have hyper-linked Lester del Rey's name and clarified that he was Judy-Lynn's husband. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:40, 27 February 2024 (EST)

Kater-Bound

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?22308; On all of the web there seems to be only 1 mention of Borgo Press and Kater-Bound together, https://www.lawrenceperson.com/?p=22429, although it does get a handful of hits in a text search, https://archive.org/search?query=%22kater-bound%22+%22borgo%22&sin=TXT&sort=-addeddate. This Archive.org page, https://archive.org/search?query=compton+farewell+bliss&sort=-addeddate, shows 2 editions with one being Borgo but with price on front covered and Kater-Bound sticker on back. Could this be the mysterious Borgo HC mentioned in the book's record? Also, the note about artist is wrong because he's credited on copyright page and back cover, the latter of which can be seen in the cover image. TP PV doesn't respond much so I'm asking on this board. --Username (talk) 13:09, 19 February 2024 (EST)

The Archive.org copy is a library book, and Kater-Craft does library bindings. I believe it is not uncommon to have a retail hardcover edition and a library-binding hardcover edition of the same book. --MartyD (talk) 17:44, 19 February 2024 (EST)
Believe it or not, I have library hardcover versions of Ace Doubles. All should be listed in my opinion. MLB (talk) 01:00, 20 February 2024 (EST)

Miriam Allen de Ford

Per the Spaces in Names subsection of Template:PublicationFields:Author, Miriam Allen de Ford should be standardized as Miriam Allen deFord. However, we have a Miriam Allen de Ford alternate name which was recently edited so the notes copy the rules saying it should be standardized. Instead, I propose we merge the alternate name to the canonical name in accordance with the rules. As there are a number of verified pubs, I will point the verifiers to the this discussion, If there are any objections, then we should probably have a Rules and standards discussions. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:28, 19 February 2024 (EST)

I guess it would be like calling somebody named MacIntosh being called Mac Intosh. Still, I'll go with the majority. MLB (talk) 00:58, 20 February 2024 (EST)
No objection to merging, but I think the actual spelling of the name should be made clear in the notes. Linguist (talk) 04:06, 20 February 2024 (EST).
No objection, I had three pubs, two in Croatian language I already corrected, but I have also one in Serbian language. In Serbian language names are written as they are pronounced, in this case same as written. Should I change this one as well? This is publication in question: https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2277217 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Debolestis (talk • contribs) .

Ruben De Anda

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1476655; https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2552505; Can anyone find proof that these are the same artists? --Username (talk) 19:45, 20 February 2024 (EST)

I don't know. But The Galaxy Primes (Ace 1976) appears also to be signed by R. De Anda. Horzel (talk) 08:52, 23 February 2024 (EST)
Probably is but since last name is mostly covered it's hard to tell. PV Willem H. noted that it may be Rafael M. De Soto but I doubt it because he has no original cover credits on ISFDB after 1964 and this book is from 1976. There's a copy on Archive.org which I've added a link to in a PENDING edit. --Username (talk) 09:44, 23 February 2024 (EST)

Steve Miller: RIP

For those who may not have seen an announcement, Steve Miller, co-author of the Liaden Universe, et al., died on February 20, 2024 at his home in Maine. His wife, author Sharon Lee, posted this obituary. Phil (talk) 07:41, 22 February 2024 (EST)

I added photo from FantLab which is a little bigger and shows his face better than Fantastic Fiction's photo. --Username (talk) 17:42, 22 February 2024 (EST)

Last User Activity

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?895338; What does this mean exactly? There was a question of contacting this PV RedDragonBooks about something related to a mod note I made and checking their page the last answer they gave or contribution they made was in spring of 2022 but the activity at the bottom of the record linked above says a few days ago. --Username (talk) 09:03, 22 February 2024 (EST)

There are two databases: The wiki and the bibliographic database. What you see for User Contributions on their user/talk page is just their Wiki edits. What you see for Last User Activity in the verifiers' list is the date of their last activity in the bibliographic side -- the Wiki software does not know about that, only about the Wiki. That user did some verifications on 2024-02-18 but hasn't posted anything to the wiki in the past couple of years. --MartyD (talk) 13:56, 22 February 2024 (EST)
Just a quick note to clarify that the software that displays the Last User Activity date checks both the Wiki side and the database side. It then displays the latest date that it finds. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:36, 22 February 2024 (EST)

Ermengarde Fisk = Evelyn E. Smith?

One of my friends pointed me at issue #10 of the 'zine Oopsla, specifically page 13. The "SHORT STORIES" section says: 

 Third goes to another brand-new author, Evelyn E. Smith ... is better known to fandom as the pseudonymous authoress of the "New York Letter" column in Slant--yeah, that's right, she's Ermengarde Fiske.

As I don't know what the accuracy of fan writing was like nearly two decades before I was born, I don't know how reliable this info might be. Any objections to varianting these author records? ErsatzCulture (talk) 13:49, 23 February 2024 (EST)

We already have a pseudonym there: Evelyn Smythe (intentional corruption of Evelyn Smyth E.?) which I think is based exactly on the note you cited above. I am not sure if we have enough evidence to connect the two Evelyn E. Smith's though - while very very likely, the name is not very uncommon. Maybe add some notes to both accounts until we find a better proof that the two are one and the same? Annie (talk) 14:50, 23 February 2024 (EST)
Never mind, I looked at the fanzine itself now - you actually missed the smoking gun while quoting - that award over there is for a story that belongs to Evelyn E. Smith (Tea Tray in the Sky) - so yes, they are the same person. Connect them away. Annie (talk) 14:54, 23 February 2024 (EST)
This is now done. Had a bit of a headscratcher with Ermengarde Fiske having its own alternate names, but I think everything is now correct, with all the authors pointing at Evelyn E. Smith as the canonical, and all of the title records having parent titles with that author record. However I wouldn't say no if someone wants to double check that everything is now as it should be. Thanks! ErsatzCulture (talk) 13:44, 27 February 2024 (EST)

J. Watson

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?224483; What do you suggest is best to add to differ 1966 Thunderbirds artist from Leading Edge writer/artist? He's on Wikipedia so I'll add that link (as Jim Watson). --Username (talk) 19:48, 24 February 2024 (EST)

See Help:How_to_separate_two_authors_with_the_same_name for ideas. Looks like "James Watson (1960s)" would work here and might be more helpful than "(I)". The situation is quite similar to the Jame Cooper examples given in that bullet. In light of the disparity in volume between their bibliographies, I think you could treat the James Watson from the 1980s as "more prominent/widely known in the Spec-Fic world" and leave it with no embedded disambiguation. --MartyD (talk) 12:04, 25 February 2024 (EST)
OK, thanks. --Username (talk) 12:30, 25 February 2024 (EST)

Tem Title

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?67830; Archived link to recently uploaded Chrysalis 9 HC just added by me in a PENDING edit, PV doesn't respond much, PB has one or two active PV so if they can verify it's Hit-and-Run there, too, not Hit-and-Miss, title should be changed. I vaguely remember asking about this long ago after noticing title was different in Tem's online bibliography. --Username (talk) 15:32, 25 February 2024 (EST)

The Hole of the Pit

https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal/Archive/Archive53#Uncanny_Banquet_and_Leisure; Exactly a year-and-a-half ago I asked about Uncanny Banquet and noted the rare novel contained in it; a copy of the Oleander Press edition including the novel with a short story and a poem was recently added to Archive.org so I've added a link in a PENDING edit. Still waiting for a copy of that anthology to show up somewhere...anywhere. --Username (talk) 18:55, 25 February 2024 (EST)

Series sort order?

I was looking at a page for a series and couldn't figure out the basis for the order of the sub-series. First come the numbered sub-series, in numerical order. Then the 'loose' items in chronological order. Then come the unnumbered sub-series, which are neither alphabetical or chronological by any of their contained titles. Is there a particular order to them? ../Doug H (talk) 09:04, 28 February 2024 (EST)

The only order that the display software enforces is as you described above: all numbered sub-series are displayed first and the rest are displayed randomly. I think it would be fairly easy to display unnumbered sub-series alphabetically. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
(after edit conflict) A more thorough review discovered that Summary pages were already sorting unnumbered sub-series alphabetically. I have adjusted the software to do the same on Series pages. Thanks for identifying the problem! Ahasuerus (talk) 18:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
Since series tend to be written in order, displaying the unnumbered titles in chronological order may make more sense. Although, sub-series wouldn't have a date and extrapolating the date from the earliest contained title would be more complex. Perhaps, numbered items followed by unnumbered sub-series followed by everything else in chronological order. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:34, 28 February 2024 (EST)
Could you please clarify what you mean by "items" in this case? Series may contain both title records and sub-series records. They use different, unrelated, numbering systems. For example, a series may contain 3 titles numbered "0.5", "1" and "2", as well as two sub-series numbered "1" and "2". Ahasuerus (talk) 19:36, 28 February 2024 (EST)
I intended items to mean both title records amd sub-series records, either of which may be numbered. What I was suggesting is that within a series (parent), each numbered item would display based on the numbering. In your example, there would be a conflict as there are both titles numbered "1" and "2" and sub-series numbered "1" and "2". Ideally, we would never assert that both a title and a sub-series should occur first in the parent series. Clearly, numbering only applies within the parent series. I believe that for numbered "items", I am not suggesting any changes to how things currently work. I had suggested a chronological sort for the remaining items based on your now corrected statement that they were displayed randomly. Given that we're already sorting alphabetically, it's probably fine to leave things as they are, unless others think a chronological sort would be preferable. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:13, 28 February 2024 (EST)

BattleTech Universe

The BattleTech Universe series and it's sub-series all list having an Issue Grid, which suggests they are Serials / Magazines. They look like books to me. Is it a mistake in the software or entry? Might the existence of one Serial in the series propagate? ../Doug H (talk) 09:12, 29 February 2024 (EST)

Yep - if there is one magazine series somewhere in the sub series inside of a bigger series, the whole set and any sunsets of it shows the grid links. It is how the software is built. Annie (talk) 10:00, 29 February 2024 (EST)
Good catch. Bug 842, "Extraneous 'View Issue Grid' links on series pages", has been created. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:15, 29 February 2024 (EST)

Database Backup

Can you please save the database with InnoDB utf8mb4 so accented and Chinese characters will show up correctly? As it now with MyISAM utf8, Иван Константинович Айвазовский shows up as ИванКонстантинович Айвазовский. It makes it hard to work with the database and makes it a lot larger than it has to be. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Catpoolfan (talk • contribs) .

For historical reasons -- the ISFDB project started in 1995 -- ISFDB tables use "latin1_swedish_ci". You can see it if you run "SELECT TABLE_CATALOG, TABLE_SCHEMA, TABLE_NAME, TABLE_COLLATION FROM INFORMATION_SCHEMA.TABLES" in MySQL. Non-Latin-1 Unicode characters are stored in the database as HTML entities. When you see "й" (i.e. "&#1081") displayed, that's because that's what's stored in the database.
There are plans to migrate from HTML entities to native Unicode, but it will be a major project with a number of dependencies. There is no ETA at this time. Ahasuerus (talk) 10:42, 1 March 2024 (EST)

I Stole You

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisheryear.cgi?60942+2017; A copy of Tripping... was recently uploaded so I added a link and the stories' numbers, there's also supposedly a copy of Ringman's collection but when I saw the red hardcover I knew that couldn't be right and it wasn't; it's a copy of some old romance novel by Jane Aiken Hodge. I checked all the usual sites but can't get contents page of TP so if anyone can or owns a copy fill in the page numbers if you wish. --Username (talk) 17:40, 1 March 2024 (EST)

Mandarin

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5905095; Is anyone familiar with Mandarin paperbacks who can say why ISBN on back cover doesn't match any other Mandarin PB on ISFDB which (almost) all start with 0-7493? This book's ISBN, 0-09, seems to have been used by Cresset per online searching but there is no mention of them anywhere in it; a couple of Cresset Editions books on ISFDB do have an ISBN which starts with that. --Username (talk) 13:14, 2 March 2024 (EST)

Donkerste Dag

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5905146; Nico Richter has 1 credit on ISFDB for a German Neil Gaiman edition but here he's credited for design. Sheila Metzner is a famed artist and I don't know what Ortikol is so if anyone thinks any of them should be entered as cover artist they can do that. --Username (talk) 14:12, 2 March 2024 (EST)

Shadow Regions

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295434; The woman who ran the publisher whose imprint put out this anthology, Tammy Perron, apparently was a crook who didn't pay most of the authors or even give some of them copies which is detailed in the link from Absolute Write that I added some time ago. In September 2023 some mysterious person uploaded a copy on Archive.org and it was finally added a few weeks ago (I stumbled on it completely by accident) so I've added a link in a PENDING edit along with the price and the stories' numbers. Maybe it was one of the authors using their own copy because this seems a very rare book with WorldCat not finding any copies; there's only 1 sad review on Goodreads where one of the authors crows about having a story in it...little did he know. According to ISFDB only 3 of the 20 stories have been reprinted since it came out nearly two decades ago so if anyone was interested in reading it you should do so because you never know if old Tammy may crawl out of the woodwork to have it taken down. --Username (talk) 18:55, 2 March 2024 (EST)

Adam L. G. Nevill canonical name

I think it is time to swap the canonical name here to Adam L. G. Nevill. Any objections? Annie (talk) 15:18, 4 March 2024 (EST)

We have 8 book-length works as by Adam Nevill and 8 book titles as by Adam L. G. Nevill. All books published over the last 5 years have appeared exclusively as by "Adam L. G. Nevill". SHORTFICTION: 8 as by "Adam Nevill" and 27 as by "Adam L. G. Nevill".
Given the numbers and the timeline, I think it's fair to say that "Adam L. G. Nevill" is the most recognizable form of his name within the genre as of 2024. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:19, 4 March 2024 (EST)

The Under-People

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3046564; https://archive.org/search?query=the-under-people&sort=-addeddate; No reason for this to be here, it's one of dozens of junk science "non-fiction" books by Norman/Steiger published back in the day. I think it should be deleted. --Username (talk) 23:52, 4 March 2024 (EST)

Collection contents question

When adding contents to a collection which is authored using a variant name, if there is no indication to the contrary, should all the content titles be attributed to the variant author name and then be made a variant of the canonical author name titles if they do not exist? Example: The Witching Hour. The collection author is James Gunn. The copyright page shows the content copyrights as by James Gunn. The included content titles only exist as by the canonical name James E. Gunn. Should these be changed to being authored by James Gunn and then made into variants? Phil (talk) 09:28, 5 March 2024 (EST)

Yes. Remove the three fiction titles, add the three new titles and variant to the canonicals. John Scifibones 09:57, 5 March 2024 (EST)
Done. Thanks.Phil (talk) 11:05, 5 March 2024 (EST)

Hautala Covers

I was entering edits for Rick Hautala books, found Jacobus signature on Moon Walker so Tim Jacobus was entered as the artist; Little Brothers, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?20465, has a name or initials on the lower right, can anyone find out who that is? --Username (talk) 10:45, 5 March 2024 (EST)

ISFDB Server downtime -- 2024-03-06 at 6pm

The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance on 2024-03-06 between 6:00pm and 6:15pm EST. Both the database and the Wiki will be unavailable. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:13, 6 March 2024 (EST)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:05, 6 March 2024 (EST)

Simulacrum

Tonight I accidentally ended up on the archived SpecFicWorld site which used to be a major hub of speculative fiction but seems to have entirely disappeared from the modern web (whatever you do, don't type specficworld.com on Google and click the link whose description is "Daftar Situs Agen Judi Slot Online Terpercaya Resmi 2023"; that will NOT lead you to what you're looking for). Only issue #9 of Simulacrum, edited and published by the guy who ran the site, Doyle Eldon Wilmoth, Jr., has an archived PDF link but while searching, as I usually do, for random text from an archived story on Google to try and find out if there are any modern sites that still include it I got one hit, the late Tanith Lee's site daughterofthenight.com, because that issue included a reprint of a story by her from Interzone Magazine. That led me to this, https://archive.org/details/@zatoichi01?query=simulacrum&sort=title, which, according to Galactic Central, is the entire 14-issue run. I rarely enter magazines but any self-moderators who don't have to wait for approval can probably do these quickly without much trouble since the contents are a mixture of reprints which will need importing and originals (or at least they're not on this site). There are many well-known authors and artists included. --Username (talk) 23:59, 7 March 2024 (EST)

I'll take a look at it and see what I can do. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:48, 8 March 2024 (EST)
I have through issue 10 entered. I'll finish up with the remaining four later. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:35, 8 March 2024 (EST)
I've entered all 14 issues now. You can see them here. I did not combine the years into editor series because there are only 14 issues so leaving them all separate makes it easier to get to them (one less click-through). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:32, 12 March 2024 (EDT)

Neglected moderation

Last time I changed something in ISFDB it took days to get a single non-controversial change accepted with hundreds of pending changes. Now it takes weeks with thousands of pending changes. When looking a the recent changes I see lots of self acceptance and accepted automatic changes, but only little moderator activity.

Remembering that it takes at least 4 or 5 rounds to add all information for a translated book that amounts to waiting multiple months for a single book.

If you don't want contributors anymore then say so clearly! ATM I'd wonder if you find people sticking with ISFDB for a longer time with that situation.

To give you an indication how this should go: I added a new word to Wiktionary, it took 4 minutes for first reaction and 1:15 to reach the final entry. --Stoecker (talk) 16:31, 8 March 2024 (EST)

Longer approval times have definitely been a problem lately. Currently we have 1976 pending submissions, 1137 of them by User:Username (many are straightforward additions of archive.org links to publication records), 124 by User:Fixer (a robot account) and the remaining 715 are by other editors.
That said, the ISFDB editing process is very different from what Wikipedia and its offshoot projects use. The latter are much easier to edit, but the quality of the end product varies tremendously. I wrote/rewrote dozens of Wikipedia articles in the mid-2000s, but eventually concluded that trying to keep articles accurate and coherent was going to be prohibitively time-consuming. I occasionally peek to see what has happened to them and their current state is pretty bad. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensheviks is full of confused nonsense.
We added the ability to self-approve a few years ago and we are slowly expanding the number of editors who can do so. Hopefully it will help matters going forward. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:56, 8 March 2024 (EST)
Well, my request to do so was simply ignored. --Stoecker (talk) 10:10, 16 March 2024 (EDT)
Nominations require support from other editors/moderators before they can be approved. If a nomination doesn't gain enough support, it is not approved. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:01, 16 March 2024 (EDT)
Which is an endless loop. Because moderators don't care I want self-moderation. But for that I need moderators to care which they don't. An unreachable goal. --Stoecker (talk) 10:05, 23 March 2024 (EDT)

Heide Oberheide

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?127989; I left a PV a note telling them that a T. Canty credit for Parke Godwin's novel Beloved Exile was actually by Oberheide so that will need fixing but another problem I found is that her page at The Paperback Palette says she was born in Canada in 1957, both very different than what ISFDB says. So does anyone know what the real info is? --Username (talk) 22:48, 9 March 2024 (EST)

Found this and this, which both agree on 1943 and Germany and have enough differences that neither seems to be the source for the other. They both strike me as fairly authoritative, especially that first one. --MartyD (talk) 11:23, 10 March 2024 (EDT)

Tales of Terror

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?291626; I added a link to the back cover image on Bookscans in a PENDING edit and noticed there are some copies on eBay which show the first page, 5, with "The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar" as a title, which means this shouldn't really be a novel but rather a collection of Poe stories adapted by Sudak. Does anyone own a copy who can verify the page numbers of the other stories so they can all be entered? --Username (talk) 12:13, 13 March 2024 (EDT)

Cover artist data entry rules updated

Please note that the "Artist" section of Template:PublicationFields:CoverArt has been updated to reflect current practices. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:02, 14 March 2024 (EDT)

The Message

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1471825; Obscure author and publisher but not obscure enough that it didn't get a Chinese translation, https://archive.org/search?query=brockman-robin&sort=-addeddate, in case anyone fluent wants to enter that; just don't title it The MASSAGE like the uploader did. --Username (talk) 18:37, 14 March 2024 (EDT)

YouTube audiobooks in or out?

I've placed this submission on hold because I'm unsure if YouTube audiobooks should be included here since they are generally not downloadable (instead being streamed). The rules include audiobooks, but also exclude "[w]orks published in a web-based publication and available exclusively as a Web page" (which is pretty much what a YouTube video is), and they say nothing about podcasts. Thoughts? Should this be a Rules and standards discussion? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:42, 20 March 2024 (EDT)

They are out under the exclusion as they are not downloadable. However we need to extend the Audio-book section of the inclusion section to match the ebooks/electronic publication one above it a bit - especially around podcasts which are not considered magazines for example. So maybe starting a discussion to clarify what audio-materials we want to index is the best choice (while keeping that one on hold until we decide what we want to do) :). Annie (talk) 15:09, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
Okay, moved it over there. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:33, 20 March 2024 (EDT)

Barcodes with prices hiding in plain sight

A lot of printed books have prices on their back covers hiding in plain sight. If you look at a barcode on the back cover, next to the ISBN, usually over the smaller barcode next to the ISBN one, there is a number sequence - for example 51595 or 51699. That means $15.95 / $16.99 (5 is the code for $, the rest is the price). The first example is from a book I pulled from my shelf (not genre), the second is from an Amazon book. As back covers are very often visible in Amazon (separately or as part of Look Inside), that may help with adding prices (with an appropriate note) even when Amazon and other retailer have their own ideas on what the price may be (or at the very least it can serve as a confirmation for the Amazon price). It is not there for all books (90000 is a very common code up there) but for the books that have it, it is as good as the old printed prices.

I propose to add this tidbit of information to the Price field help. Meanwhile, I am leaving it here for information :) Annie (talk) 17:21, 20 March 2024 (EDT)

Good idea to add this to the Help. I have sometimes used this for prices. You might like to expand the note to explain other currencies. The smaller 5 digit barcode is the supplementary section of the barcode and contains a EAN-5 code. The first of the five digits is a currency code. If the first digit is 9, that means the supplementary section does not contain price information. It's explained in this Wikipedia article. Teallach (talk) 18:28, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
Yep - we should add all the codes when we are adding the note to the help page. Thanks for the link to the Wiki page - I knew it was there, I did not think to look it up earlier today :) Annie (talk) 18:41, 20 March 2024 (EDT)
I agree that adding a section about EAN-5 codes to Template:PublicationFields:Price would be useful. We could list the commonly used first digits:
  • 0 and 1 -- UK
  • 3 - Australia
  • 4 - New Zealand
  • 5 - US
  • 6 - Canada
and explain special pseudo-price values, i.e. that "9999" means "100.00 or more" while "90000" means "no price given". We could then link to the Wikipedia article or an industry Web page for other scenarios. Ahasuerus (talk) 19:06, 20 March 2024 (EDT)

Webzines to include?

Hello. I have two new pub submissions on hold as they pertain to new webzine entries. Do we want to include these?

Looking through the contents, I say we can include those. Not sure how long-lived these are going to be though... Comments/suggestions from other editors & moderators whether to include or not? (didn't look for past discussion where webzine inclusions were debated...) MagicUnk (talk) 15:35, 21 March 2024 (EDT)

Both produce issues and both are genre -zines. So they are eligible under the "Webzines, which are defined as online periodicals with distinct issues (note that online periodicals without distinct issues are not considered webzines)." rule. How long they survive is irrelevant - even if they produce a single issue, they are in. However, these records will need some massaging post approval :) Annie (talk) 15:41, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
Thought so. The help text says to post and query the editor community - we may want to update that and instead clarify that if a webzine has distinct issues, it is in by default? MagicUnk (talk) 16:09, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
Probably an oversight (we forgot it was there?) after we changed the ROA awhile back to include these. Which of the help pages?
PS: Note that awhile back we even dropped the requirement for the webzine to be genre allowing non-genre ones to be added as any other non-genre periodical (with only genre contents indexed). So yep - a webzine with issues is always in under the genre magazine rules or the non-genre periodical ones. Annie (talk) 16:22, 21 March 2024 (EDT)
Here - see webzine in that section. MagicUnk (talk) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
Ah, the one place I did not look at. :) Yep - that needs an update. I will start a discussion so we can get the language crafted. Annie (talk) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
Here we go - the proposed new language. Annie (talk) 11:26, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
Rules of Acquisition has it as you mention above - we may want to add non-genre periodicals role there explicitly. MagicUnk (talk) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
We do not have them called out in the print periodicals section either but if you think we should clarify that across the board, I won't object. Let's finish the audio-formats discussion we are currently having about changes in the same section of the ROA over in R&S and then I will initiate a discussion about this. Annie (talk) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
As an aside, I must say that I couldn't find the ROA immediately - I think it is an important section of the rules. Shouldn't we be adding a link on the main help page? MagicUnk (talk) 11:00, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I know to look under Policy but you are right, it needs to be a lot more visible here - either as a sublink under the ISFDB Policy link or on its own in the same section. Annie (talk) 11:08, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I've added a specific link to it on Help:Contents, which is found at the top of most help pages. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:18, 22 March 2024 (EDT)

ISFDB:Verification requests

The ISFDB:Verification requests board is not used much anymore. It seems ISFDB:Help desk and this board have pretty much supplanted it. Do we want to discontinue it? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:17, 22 March 2024 (EDT)

How about we can turn it into a broader board instead: "Assistance needed/Project Assistance Required/Something along these lines" for example - when an editor starts a project and notices other things that need adding/fixing or finds a source that may be useful and is unable/unwilling to work through it, they can request assistance there. Looking at CS, about half of the posts there in the last couple of years are from that nature and they choke the actual discussion threads and make it very hard for people to notice that something was posted in the discussions. It will be the counter-part of the Help Desk - come to the Help Desk if you want help getting the work done and learning how to do it; come to this board to post a project that needs work but you cannot/don't want to work on. Annie (talk) 14:59, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I'd be fine with that. I agree this board has gotten rather full lately, making it hard to keep track of things. So maybe change the title to ISFDB:Assistance requests or something? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:11, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I like the idea. "Assistance requests" may be a bit too narrow for what we are trying to define, but it's the closest that I can think of at the moment. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:46, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
I like "Assistance Requests". If we ever come up with a better name, we can rename and forward. And we have the text under it to add a sentence that describes the scope better. Annie (talk) 15:53, 22 March 2024 (EDT)
"Help Wanted" ? ../Doug H (talk) 09:47, 23 March 2024 (EDT)
I think that there is potential for confusion between "Help desk" and "Help Wanted". Ideally, whatever name we come up with should clearly differentiate between the two boards. Ahasuerus (talk) 10:08, 23 March 2024 (EDT)
Maybe "Research Requests" or "Research Assistance"? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:45, 24 March 2024 (EDT)
I like "Research Assistance". Ahasuerus (talk) 15:13, 24 March 2024 (EDT)

(unindent) Are there any objections to changing ISFDB:Verification requests to Research Assistance? Ahasuerus (talk) 17:12, 4 April 2024 (EDT)

I'm okay with that. MagicUnk (talk) 06:10, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
If there are no objections, I will ask Nihonjoe to make the change tomorrow. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:50, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
De we want it to be ISFDB:Research Assistance to Research Assistance? The other can be a redirect. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:54, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
Probably ISFDB:Research Assistance in order to stay consistent with the majority of other "major" pages. Ahasuerus (talk) 18:05, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
Since there are no objections, please feel free to go ahead and move ISFDB:Verification requests to ISFDB:Research Assistance when you get a chance. Ahasuerus (talk) 13:45, 6 April 2024 (EDT)
Moved! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:31, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
Thanks! I have updated the main Wiki page and everything looks good. Ahasuerus (talk) 11:37, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
The Description up in the panel at the top of all the community boards still say "Help with bibliographic, image credit, and other questions which require a physical check of the work in question.". Annie (talk) 11:49, 8 April 2024 (EDT)
Updated, thanks! The new wording is "Help with bibliographic projects", which is a bit bland and non-specific, but I couldn't think of a better way to summarize the purpose of the new board. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:49, 8 April 2024 (EDT)

Jim/James Burns

I just added a link and did a few other things for the 33rd YBSF edition, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2012677, and searched for others with James Burns as cover artist; only 34th came up, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2209443, but as can be seen PV of TP and HC entered it differently. So maybe consensus about which is "better" should be reached and credits merged. --Username (talk) 18:45, 27 March 2024 (EDT)

Lovecraft Collaborations Book

I was starting to add the audio book edition of this title and discovered that publisher has provided a copy of the pdf version of the book. While we don't have a record for the pdf (it has a different ISBN than the eBook), there are several discrepancies between it and our records. I also have questions other questions about how this title is reflected and while none of the publications are primarily verified, there have been several editors who have touched these records. I thought I'd reach out for comments before proceeding with changes.

  1. We have the title as an ANTHOLOGY and list both the editor and Lovecraft. All the stories are credited to Lovecraft with various co-authors. Personally, I feel that these sorts of collection of collaborations are better typed as COLLECTION as was done with this title.
  2. The title page lists the credits as "By H.P. Lovecraft" over "Edited and Annotated by Finn J.D. John" in smaller type. We have both names in the author field. Since we have this as an ANTHOLOGY, this labels them both as "Editors". Lovecraft clearly didn't edit this book. As I feel this should be listed as a COLLECTION, I also feel that only Lovecraft should be listed in the author field. If the consensus is that it's an ANTHOLOGY, then we only list John.
  3. The stories are listed with both Lovecraft and his co-author on their title pages, whereas we have them all listed by the collaborating author alone. So I intend to swap out which variant of these titles is included. I don't thin this is controversial.
  4. There is a short essay before each section giving biographical details of each co-author. I intend to add these. While not signed, I think we can safely attribute them to John by virtue of his annotation credit.
  5. The PDF lists 5 different formats each with their own ISBN including the "Interactive PDF". Should we add the PDF as a separate title record, or should the PDF ISBN be added in the notes for the ebook edition? I'll also note, that my understanding is that we do list page numbers for pdfs whereas we do not for ebooks.
  6. I'm fairly comfortable that these changes should apply to the 2018 publications based on the 2018 pdf. I'm less certain whether I should make changes to the 2017 edition, or the 2019 omnibus, i.e should we assume the story credits and biographical essays are present in the other editions not listed in the pdf?
  7. I assume adding a note about the PDF being included with the audio book is sufficient rather than duplicating the contents showing the story exists twice (audio and text).

I'd appreciate other's thoughts on these questions. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:29, 28 March 2024 (EDT)

My mild opinion is that both this and the example you cited should be ANTHOLOGY. They are different from the case where most of the stories are written by Lovecraft alone, with one or two written by him and someone else. While both are Locvecraft-centric, they are primarily showcasing the work of a wide variety of authors. I agree with everything else in your list. --MartyD (talk) 19:55, 31 March 2024 (EDT)
I'm afraid I would still prefer these as COLLECTIONs. If we were to convert them to ANTHOLOGY, we would need to list the editor as the sole author which would move these collections out of Lovecraft's bibliography. I had only cited one example, but there are many similar collections, many of which are verified. For example, see which collections containing the story The Green Meadow. It is contained in two true anthologies. Aside from the 4 editions of the title we're discussing, there is but one other {{P|848648|publication} typed as a ANTHOLOGY. All other publications were entered as COLLECTION or OMNIBUS. In some of these cases, we don't necessarily have the editor and would likely need to move these titles to the uncredited bibliography page instead of Lovecraft's. Beyond the Wall of Sleep is another interesting example. There about 10 "collaborations" in this collection which is a minority, but it is more than one or two stories. If we decide to type these sorts of books as ANTHOLOGY, where would we draw that line? My last point is that it appears to me that these books are published to appear as Lovecraft collections with his name listed more prominently than any editors (if they are listed at all). If we are to reclassify these publication, I'd like to hear from some of the other verifiers. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:23, 1 April 2024 (EDT)
Since there have been no further responses to this, and the one objection was "mild", I'm going to proceed with these changes. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 12:34, 13 April 2024 (EDT)

"Publication Title-Reference Title Mismatches" enhanced

As per the recent Rules and Standards discussion, the cleanup report "Publication Title-Reference Title Mismatches" has been enhanced to require an exact match between publication titles and their reference title records' titles. New data will become available tomorrow morning.

We are looking at around 10,000 mismatches, so the cleanup effort will be significant, especially considering the fact that many affected publication records have been primary-verified. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:07, 4 April 2024 (EDT)

Canonical name change Charles Eugene Anderson from Chuck Anderson

Any objections to making Charles Eugene Anderson the canonical name and Chuck Anderson the alternate?

  • 17 titles credited to Charles Eugene Anderson.
  • 09 titles credited to Chuck Anderson.
  • 01 title has publications credited to each.

Thanks, John Scifibones 07:51, 5 April 2024 (EDT)

Go ahead, obvious case where the switch can/need to happen MagicUnk (talk) 09:28, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
Hearing no objections, done. John Scifibones 18:45, 9 April 2024 (EDT)

David (B.) Mattingly

Looking through the works credited to Mattingly, it seems to me that "David Mattingly" is the most common (by far), and has been for a long time. There are so many entries, though, this opinion is based only on quickly scanning through the list. Is there a way to get a count of each through database queries? I don't think any of the other aliases are used in a significant amount. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:58, 5 April 2024 (EDT)

Just with search and a browser search: 510 with the name David Mattingly; 747 under the canonical; 198 of these 747 of them are "only as by David Mattingly". Just based on that, how we record the names from secondary sources for artists and the fact that the new ones are always without the B. when we get access to the book, I would say it is time to flip the names. I am not volunteering to do it though. :) Annie (talk) 18:58, 5 April 2024 (EDT)

(after edit conflict)

The easiest way that I can think of is to run a few Advanced Title Searches using "Author's Name is exactly David Mattingly". Make sure to click "Get Count" instead of "Get Results". Here are the results that I see:
  • David B. Mattingly: 747
  • David Mattingly: 510
  • Dave Mattingly: 12
  • D. B. Mattingly: 7
  • Dave Maddingly: 1
  • D. Matingly: 1
  • Mattingly: 2
  • David Burroughs Mattingly: 1
Since David B. Mattingly is the current canonical name, it's over-represented. Every "David Mattingly" COVERART/INTERIORART title has a "David B. Mattingly" parent title, but only some of the latter have actual publications associated with them. Firefox tells me that the Summary Bibliography page has:
  • 79 instances of "also appeared"
  • 8 instances of "also as"
  • 132 instances of "only appeared"
  • 207 instances of "only as"
What this means is that 339 canonical titles have only appeared under an alternate name. Another 87 have been credited at least 2 different ways. 339+87-12-7-1-1-2 is 403, which, unless I am missing something, gives us a rough count. I'd need to run database queries to get a better idea, but it looks like "David Mattingly" is slightly ahead of "David B. Mattingly".
P.S. Perhaps what we need is a new menu options to generate this kind of data on demand. Ahasuerus (talk) 19:03, 5 April 2024 (EDT)
That would be cool. Another cool thing would be if we could figure out a way to programatically automate the process of changing canonical names (maybe have a side menu link that appears whenever viewing an author entry). The link would take you to a page where you'd enter the current author ID and the target author ID. We'd have to account for variants on the author name, title variants, and translations (and probably a lot of other things that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head). For situations like this, it would save tons of time in the long run. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:37, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
This functionality has been requested a couple of times. Unfortunately, it would be very difficult to implement in a way that would guarantee completeness and accuracy. Not only would the software need to change the way VTs and Alternate Names are configured, but it would also need to change dates (for some titles) and Notes.
Perhaps we could implement something less ambitious but still useful. For example, "Undo all Variants for This Author"? Ahasuerus (talk) 14:22, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
Yeah, it's definitely very complex. I like the "Undo all Variants for This Author" idea, though. What about a "swap canonical authors" option on individual titles? That would be a lot less complex and allow for easier catching of potential issues. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:48, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
I don't see the benefit of an "Undo all Variants for This Author" tool. A variant title only needs to be broken if both the canonical title and the variant tiles have publications attributed. If all the publication(s) are associated with the variant title, a simple merge is the best option. Not only does it save a step by not having to delete the old canonical, but it saves all the information. Some data is only stored in the "parent title", plus any edit history. John Scifibones 15:38, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
I'm slowly working through all of them. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:42, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
I have completed moving all the records to David Mattingly. I think someone else was moving them, too, so thanks to them, too. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:32, 22 April 2024 (EDT)
Joe, thanks for sorting this out. I noticed Zapp was helping you. John Scifibones 19:38, 22 April 2024 (EDT)

Server downtime -- 2024-04-06 at 2pm

The ISFDB server will be down for maintenance between 2:00pm and 2:10pm. Both the database side and the Wiki side will be unavailable. Ahasuerus (talk) 13:28, 6 April 2024 (EDT)

The server is back up. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:05, 6 April 2024 (EDT)

The Prequel Trilogy

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934500; I have a question about the publisher of this 2007 Star Wars omnibus; there is no mention of Ballantine in the book so it should be similar to the last one on this list, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=del+rey&type=Publisher, but without the SFBC. Should I change publisher to LucasBooks / Del Rey? --Username (talk) 11:30, 7 April 2024 (EDT)

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934540; I changed publisher on this one since they were still with Ballantine in 2000. --Username (talk) 12:22, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934546; Another change from 2005 when they were still together. I don't see any cover artist credited that someone entered here or any sign of the excerpt mentioned on the book's copyright page. EDIT: One of the earlier editions has a note here saying they got artist from his site. --Username (talk) 12:31, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934585; Another one from 2006; this one actually has a PV so I'll leave them a message. --Username (talk) 13:12, 7 April 2024 (EDT)
And a final one, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5934586, 2005 HC, PV is gone so no need for a note. --Username (talk) 13:18, 7 April 2024 (EDT)

Semaphore

https://www.lulu.com/fr/search?contributor=Marie+Hodgkinson; While adding PDF story links from Tartarus Press at their old freepages.pavilion.net site the last one I linked was a story by Rebecca Lloyd that was entered here as original to her 2014 collection but was actually published in 2007 in a magazine called Semaphore, no issues of which are on ISFDB, but I found that Lulu page above so anyone who likes entering magazines can add a lot from that. The editor has a page here, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?143960. --Username (talk) 13:41, 9 April 2024 (EDT)

https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/semaphoremagazine.com; PDF of some (all?) issues at this site. --Username (talk) 13:50, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
Looks like it has archived PDFs of all but the last issue (issue 15) from June 2011. I'll work on these. The first issue is now here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:32, 9 April 2024 (EDT)
Okay, I think they're all entered (15 issues in total). I also found a couple anthologies collecting the stories and poems voted best by readers of the magazine. I don't know if there were more than the two anthologies. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:33, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
Excellent. Only thing I think you forgot is June 2008's cover artist. --Username (talk) 14:07, 10 April 2024 (EDT)
Fixed! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:11, 10 April 2024 (EDT)

David Ireland

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?3106; I just made edits adding the Allen Lane HC of City of Women and adding a link to Mortal Fire where the 1982 short story is from and noticed that the Wiki page makes no mention of any art so I think the famed Australian novelist and the artist are 2 different people. --Username (talk) 10:28, 11 April 2024 (EDT)

Canonical name change Jody A. Lee from Jody Lee

The artist's website and SFE use Jody A. Lee. While the majority of her early work was credited to 'Jody Lee', the shift to 'Jody A. Lee' is clear. Here are the current statistics.

  • 111 titles credited to Jody A. Lee.
  • 73 titles credited to Jody Lee.
  • 26 titles hasve publications credited to each.

Are there any objections to making Jody A. Lee the canonical name and Jody Lee the alternate? John Scifibones 14:24, 11 April 2024 (EDT)

Sounds good to me. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:41, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
No objections here. Ahasuerus (talk) 15:47, 11 April 2024 (EDT)
Hearing no objections, done. John Scifibones 17:47, 15 April 2024 (EDT)
https://ixgallery.com/artists/jodylee/; Here's her photo in case someone wants to upload it to the wiki. --Username (talk) 17:58, 15 April 2024 (EDT)
✓Done! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:28, 17 April 2024 (EDT)

ISBN hyphenation changed

As I am sure most of you know, different publishers' ISBNs are hyphenated differently. Possible permutations include:

  • 978-1-64973-127-2
  • 978-1-9821-9317-1
  • 979-8-200-29585-2
  • 979-10-281-0150-3
  • 979-8-9856919-6-2

"The International ISBN Agency" maintains a list of rules which determine in which positions hyphens are supposed to appear. Almost all publishers follow them, although there have been some exceptions, notably Tor prior to 2007.

When ISFDB 2.0 was developed in 2004-2006, the rules -- as they existed back then -- were manually incorporated in the ISFDB software. What we didn't realize at the time was how complex the rules would become over the course of the following 20 years. As the number of publishers (and self-publishers) exploded, the International ISBN Agency had to create more and more rules to accommodate the growth and the ISBN handling part of the ISFDB software, which was last updated in 2010, fell hopelessly behind. The result was that many ISBNs were hyphenated incorrectly when displayed on ISFDB pages.

Earlier today I deployed a fairly big patch which changed the way the ISFDB software determines where hyphens are displayed. We now follow the International ISBN Agency's current rules to the letter. There is also a way to update our rules programmatically whenever the Agency rolls out new rules. I expect that we will be doing it a few times a year, which will let us stay more or less in sync with the Agency. (We also have special exceptions for Tor and the other 2 publishers which didn't follow the rules prior to 2007.)

As always, if you come across any issues with this software change, please let me know. Ahasuerus (talk) 14:07, 16 April 2024 (EDT)

Thanks for all your hard work behind the scenes on stuff like this. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:03, 16 April 2024 (EDT)
To quote Damon Knight, I am here to serve man! :-) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ahasuerus (talk • contribs) .

Publication Title Without a Related Title Record

I am about to create a new pub record under That Hideous Strength by C. S. Lewis. There is a subtitle on the title page so the full, correct publication title is: That Hideous Strength: A Modern Fairy-Tale for Grown-Ups. Looking at the title record I see there are five publications (three of which have been PVd) with this subtitle. However, they do not have a related title record "That Hideous Strength: A Modern Fairy-Tale for Grown-Ups" and consequently there is no varianting. Is this correct and if so why? Teallach (talk) 18:42, 17 April 2024 (EDT)

It is not correct. The publication title should match the reference title. This report highlights 1000 exceptions each day (I don't know the selection algorithm). First determine, subtitle or no subtitle, which should be the canonical? It's also a good idea to review the publications and make sure they are recorded correctly. Whichever you determine, it will be a multi-step edit. Ask if you have questions. If I'm online, ping me and I'll approve as you submit. John Scifibones 20:14, 17 April 2024 (EDT)
You have confirmed my suspicions. The cleanup report to which you refer does not include "That Hideous Strength" so I guess it's because it is limited to 1000 records. I'm happy to clean up this title. I'm satisfied that "That Hideous Strength" (without subtitle) is the more appropriate canonical title. I have inspected the five pub records with the subtitle and each looks internally consistent. Three of these have PVs. Do I need to consult with PVs or can this sort of housekeeping be performed without PVs' consent? Teallach (talk) 12:42, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
It's not necessary to contact the PV's. You're merely correcting the reference title. I know you intend to perform all the steps and will indicate such in the note to moderator. I noticed this title wasn't on the report. Perhaps Ahasuerus will chime in and explain the algorithm determining which titles to report. John Scifibones 15:45, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
First step submitted: Unmerge titles. Teallach (talk) 16:26, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
Approved, John Scifibones 16:33, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
Step 2 submitted: merge the 5 reference titles of the subtitled version. Teallach (talk) 17:12, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
Approved, John Scifibones 17:17, 18 April 2024 (EDT)
Step 3 submitted: make subtitled version a variant of canonical title.
Think that's it for the pubs but I can see there's more work to do:
A) These two pubs: Macmillan 1966 and Macmillan 1977 have the variant title but the same canonical coverart title records. So I'm pretty sure these need to be changed. The only way I can see to do this involves five more edits:
Step 4) edit one of the pubs (1966, say) and create a second coverart record under the variant title
Step 5) variant the coverart record
Step 6) import the variant coverart record to the 1977 pub
Step 7) remove the canonical coverart record from the 1966 pub
Step 8) remove the canonical coverart record from the 1977 pub
Is there a more efficient way to do this?
B) Those same two pubs contain an essay Preface (That Hideous Strength) which has a disambiguator under the canonical title. Does the disambiguator have to be changed to the variant title. I'm unsure about this because the phrase is only a disambiguator; it's not actually part of the title of the essay. Can you please advise.
My goodness, this is long-winded! Teallach (talk) 18:11, 18 April 2024 (EDT)

(unindent)
Submit two edits for each pub. (All four at once)

  • Submission 1 - Add the new variant titles, COVERART and preface.
  • Submission 2 - Remove the canonicals.

Since these submissions will generate change notices, reference this conversation in the note to moderator. After I approve all four, I'll perform the two merges. You will just need to link the variants. John Scifibones 18:48, 18 April 2024 (EDT)

Yes, I see where you're going with this. About the same number of edits but fewer Wait For Approval stages. Four edits submitted. Teallach (talk) 07:12, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
Approved, John Scifibones 07:22, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
Two Make Variants submitted. Teallach (talk) 07:52, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
I've checked all the affected records and everything looks good to me apart from one error that must have been present before we started the cleanup: the date of the canonical title of the Preface (correction submitted). So I think we've finally reached the end. If there's anything I've missed, let me know. Many thanks for all your assistance with this John. Much appreciated. Teallach (talk) 16:34, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
Fortunately, there is a scan of the first edition in the internet archive. I added the preface and a link to the scan here. As you know, the canonical is dated to the first appearance, even if it is as a variant. I put your submission on hold, assuming you would rather cancel than have me reject it. I enjoyed working on this with you. Ping me anytime. John Scifibones 18:43, 19 April 2024 (EDT)
Oh, that's interesting. It hadn't occurred to me to look for an archive of the first ed because I had looked in Currey who states the following regarding the first Pan pb (1955): 'adds new author's "preface"'. So it's possible that there are two different prefaces. This requires more research which I don't have time to do now and may not have the resources anyway. But it's fine to leave the ISFDb records as they are for now; they are all self consistent. I have cancelled my submission. Teallach (talk) 04:46, 20 April 2024 (EDT)

Trademark markings in titles

My understanding is that we generally don't include symbols like ® and TM in titles because they usually indicate information about the title but are not usually part of the title. As JLaTondre wrote in 2012, "There is distinction between a title that has a '®' or 'TM' as part of the title and a title that adds the '®' or 'TM' for legal reasons." I'm asking because I ran across this title that has one as part of the title, and I don't think it's actually part of the title itself, but rather added for legal reasons. This might be something we should clarify on Help:Screen:Title. This was discussed way back in 2007, but I haven't yet found any more recent discussions (outside of the 2012 one I mentioned above). Thoughts? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:51, 23 April 2024 (EDT)

I'm the editor with the sole PV for that ebook pub. I have no objection to removing it since the trademark symbol really only applies to the "Liaden Universe" portion of the title. It is on the title page and cover that way. Clarification of the rule would be a good idea. Phil (talk) 13:44, 23 April 2024 (EDT)

Supermonsters

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2600565; I added Supermonsters as a variant (and subbed a better cover image) but it's from 1986 like the German parent so if anyone can find a copyright page scan which verifies the month is earlier the American cover would become the parent; I couldn't find one, but I do see on eBay that Archway released a much earlier PB in Sep. '78 with a photo of the cool American-added demon from the 1950s film Night/Curse of the Demon on the cover but the 2 sellers that showed the copyright page have editions that say 1 2 9 8 below the printing info; whether that's a number line or what I don't know but if anyone owns a copy you may want to enter yours. --Username (talk) 09:47, 24 April 2024 (EDT)

Ray Daley possible death

It's possible Ray Daley has died, though I haven't found an obituary or any other official report. He was in the hospital since the end of March due to a heart attack, and a number of people are posting condolences on an open call group on Facebook as well as on his profile there. I'll try to keep an eye on it and keep looking for an obituary or other official report. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:01, 24 April 2024 (EDT)

日本SFファンドム賞 (Japan SF Fandom Award) entry completed

It took me almost a year to do it (due to various things distracting me from it), but it's done. Please let me know if anyone has any questions. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:51, 24 April 2024 (EDT)

And related, I've completed entering the recipients of the Takumi Shibano Award. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:42, 24 April 2024 (EDT)

Shadow People

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3356; Long-gone PV of C$ Dell ed. entered just "Jones" as artist here, one or the other should be decided on and the 2 merged. --Username (talk) 09:43, 26 April 2024 (EDT)

Joshua T. Calvert / Joshua Tree

Hi! Along with updating the author records I have brought the installing of the first name as a pseudonym for the second on the way (incl. the varianting to the respective original titles). This was based on the information given at the German Wikipedia, which discloses the pseudonym. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 11:31, 29 April 2024 (EDT)

As a point of reference, Amazon.com uses the same author photo on the Joshua T. Calvert page and the Joshua Tree page. Ahasuerus (talk) 12:01, 29 April 2024 (EDT)
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