User talk:Philfreund

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  • If you're adding Cover Art or Notes to any of my Verified Pubs, go ahead and do it along with putting a comment about the changes you made in the Moderator notes.
  • If you want to make changes in any other field of the verified record, whether it is a pub you've verified or not, please add a new comment containing the proposed change(s) to the list along with a link to the pub record. I'll respond as quickly as possible.

My How-tos and Procedures


Hello, Philfreund, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Annie 17:03, 25 October 2020 (EDT)

Translation preferences updated

Just a quick FYI that the User Preferences page has been updated to let users suppress translations on Title page. Thanks for bringing this issue to the community's attention! Ahasuerus 18:26, 29 December 2020 (EST)

Five Against Venus


I adjusted the value of the Pub series name in your book to match the way we have this series recorded in the DB and updated to note to explain the exact spelling on the dustjacket. I also merged the novel record with the earlier printings - in the future you may find it easier to either use "Add Publication to This Title" on the title level or "Clone This Pub" from one of the previous versions (and just change any fields that are different. That way we do not need to merge post approval. While it is not a big problem for novels, it can be for anthologies and collections where if you do New and add the stories manually, we will need to merge every single story :)

I did not merge the covers as it was unclear if it is the same as the previous ones. Once you provide the cover image, if it is, we can merge those records as well. Thanks! Annie 12:18, 4 February 2021 (EST)

Thanks for the advice. I'm still trying to learn the best way to do things. I'm OK with the series number change. However, I didn't originally include it because the Wikipedia entry for the Winston Science Fiction series specifically states that the series was not numbered. This book was simply the third published chronologically. Phil Freund 12:40, 4 February 2021 (EST)
I did not add a number, I just changed the name of the series (shortened it a bit) to match the record we have. See our note explaining why and how we numbered the books in this series in the DB. Hope this makes sense. Annie 12:56, 4 February 2021 (EST); The other printings are numbered 3, not 5. --Username (talk) 12:34, 5 November 2023 (EST)


External IDs should belong to the printing that they are added to. So I moved it from there into the notes here and added it as an External ID to the first printing as the LCCN record clearly says 1952. Thanks for supplying the number! Annie 18:50, 4 February 2021 (EST)

Thanks! I'm learning a lot from your helpful comments. Phil 22:09, 4 February 2021 (EST)


Regarding this submission: What identifies it as a new printing vs. the existing printing? There is nothing listed in the notes. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:46, 6 February 2021 (EST)

The same question for this submission vs The Grey King. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:47, 6 February 2021 (EST)

Both have a different cover price of $2.95 while the originals are $1.95. The price is on the covers which I will upload once these are approved unless you want me to upload them now. I will need help figuring out how to name the upload images if that's the case. Phil 09:22, 6 February 2021 (EST)
Both approved. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:09, 7 February 2021 (EST)

Suicide Run


When you see a note such as "Data from as of 2021-02-11." in the notes this tells you when the data was checked in Amazon. Unless you have a time machine and you are writing from 2018, changing this to "Data from as of 2018-04-01." is incorrect. You can change it in 2 ways:

  • If you are working off a copy of the book, remove the statement completely unless you are leaving some information from it (price for example in which case modify to "Data from as of 2021-02-11 (price)." or use the date you are submitting on if it is still the same.
  • If you are working based on an archived copy of the page taken on 2018-04-01 (your own copy or somewhere off internet),then leave it there and just add "Data verified with an archived copy of taken on 2018-04-01". Or something to that effect.

The actual date of the book goes into the field for the date. I restored the note here. Feel free to re-edit based on your exact circumstances. Thanks and let me know if you have any questions. Annie 19:38, 5 March 2021 (EST)

Same for this one and I suspect a few more :) Plus - we support 16 Amazons :) If you mean the US one, can you use (yes, I know... not everyone had been doing that) :) Annie 19:40, 5 March 2021 (EST)
Sorry for the mess. I now understand! I have been pulling my book purchase info into my Readerware database for years. Part of that info is the purchase date and purchase price so I was just trying to get the dates more accurate. I also suspect that the odd prices I'm seeing in some of the publication records could be because the person from AU didn't note the price as A$ instead of just $. Phil 22:06, 5 March 2021 (EST)
No worries. In this case use your date to add "Price from xxxx-xx-xx" or something like that if you want.
No - they are really US ones but when you open from outside of USA, it adds taxes (and some other fees sometimes) and makes the prices funny. Or it shows the converted A$ price price (in US$ but not what a US person will see). Or used to - they keep changing things. Amazon can be... fun sometimes if you do not know how to decipher some of its shenanigans. Annie 22:23, 5 March 2021 (EST)

Ric Locke

The unneeded "k" had been sent the way of the dodo. Thanks for finding it! :) Annie 19:43, 5 March 2021 (EST)

A Light in the Dark

I fixed the date in the notes from 2012-08-05 back to its addition date here but where is that 2012 date coming from at all? The single date difference in the other book is an AU/US thing (the editor that initially added these is based in AU/NZ so that happens like that sometimes...) but this one is way off. If this is the date in Amazon, this is a later ebook and it should be added separately and not mistaken with the 2011 one. Annie 19:47, 5 March 2021 (EST)

I'm now confused about what date I entered. The copy I have in hand shows July 27, 2011 Revision on the copyright page. Phil 22:24, 5 March 2021 (EST)
Based on the other thread - did you buy it on 2012-08-05? :) Sounds like this was the date in your DB? Or you copied/pasted something from another book :) Annie 22:30, 5 March 2021 (EST)
Mystery solved. That's exactly what I did. Bought it on 2012-08-05. Sigh....must have been distracted by the dogs barking at the Amazon delivery truck. :) Phil 22:41, 5 March 2021 (EST)

The Winter Long

Fixed the cover artist here based on the note in the notes :) Annie 23:34, 11 March 2021 (EST)

Was Once a Hero

About this: a book from 2011 cannot say "Second Publication Ad Astra 2013". We catalog SF, we do not live in a SF universe yet. Either the date of the ebook is wrong or your note is wrong. Based on the note, it seems like we had conflated the first edition (2011,Hellfire) with the second (2013,Ad Astra)... If you are sure, then if I were you, I would fix the date of this one, explain where the 2013 comes from and then create a clone of the book to put the known 2011 publisher and year in it... :) Annie 17:34, 12 March 2021 (EST)

Wow. I missed the date completely. The copyright page definitely says Second Publication. Is there any way to edit a submission or do I need to cancel this one and make the changes with a new one? Phil 18:09, 12 March 2021 (EST)
You will need to cancel this one and submit again. However, I recommend you submit the clone at the same time - so we do not loose the 2011 date - Just date, publisher, type and a note saying "First Edition. Data from the copyright page of the second edition" will be enough and that's it :) Annie 18:14, 12 March 2021 (EST)

Fearful Symmetry

A few small changes/comments here

  • There is no Foreward in the book... there is an Introduction. And we name Introductions by adding the title of the book in brackets when there is no special title, not at the start of the title. If yours does have Foreward instead, do you really have the Ad Astra book? :)
  • Use piped numbers to order the contents (so |1 for the intro, |2 for the novel)

Let me know if have any questions Annie 17:50, 12 March 2021 (EST)

I have to assume the copy I have is from Ad Astra since the copyright page says "Then by Ad Astra". The ISBN and the date match. However, it definitely says "Foreword by Claudia Christian" right after the dedication in my copy which I bought from on 2013-11-24. I looked at the current version and it says Third Edition and indeed shows "Introduction Claudia Christian, Star of Babylon 5" immediately after a table of contents which does not exist in my copy. Suggestions? Phil 18:28, 12 March 2021 (EST)
So there are at least 2 different copies out there. This one is the one connected to the ASIN now... Does yours have the same ASIN (if you know)?
I'd say to clone for yours and add the "Foreword (Fearful Symmetry)" and not "Fearful Symmetry Foreward" there and add some notes explaining the situation in the notes so it is clear that we indeed have least two. The one in the current book is fully visible so see if it matches yours - if it is the same text, we will variant... Or I can do it for you if you prefer. Annie 18:44, 12 March 2021 (EST)
It's the same ASIN. I'll give it a try. Likely tomorrow. :) Phil 21:54, 12 March 2021 (EST)
Rather than mess this up, would you please create the variant? I'm getting confused trying to set this up correctly. Cloning wouldn't let me remove/change the Introduction regular title. Once it's there, I can add some additional notes to differentiate it plus add the correct Foreword regular title. BTW, the text of the Foreword in my version matches the text in the Introduction of the version currently up on Phil 14:34, 13 March 2021 (EST)
yeah - we will need to remove later. I will fix these and come back to let you know in a bit - on my way out of the door for errands. Annie 14:51, 13 March 2021 (EST)
Apologies for the delay - migraine :( Your book is now here. The one that is now on Amazon is here. :) Annie 11:28, 15 March 2021 (EDT)
Thanks for this. Hope your migraine situation stays clamed down. There is actually at least one other difference. The current Amazon version has a Table of Contents just prior to the Introduction which is missing from my older version. Do you want me to adjust the Amazon version entry? Phil 12:18, 15 March 2021 (EDT)
Absolutely :) Go ahead and fix whatever is needed. Annie 12:48, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

Poets and Piracy

See my update here. This is Amazon being a pain. If you go to Amazon US from the left menu (which is based on ISBN10), it leads to this which is Amazon's way to show that this ISBN belongs to the Kindle edition as well (Kindle on the top of list of editions, that's where this ISBN is attached). Back in April Amazon essentially pulled the ISBNs from the API for ebooks (they removed from the UI months earlier) and now this is the only way to sort them out. So don't pull the ISBN out from a publication unless you had verified it does not belong to the book indeed or we are losing information (and yes, not uncommon not to be in the book itself so your note on that was the correct thing to do). :) Annie 19:41, 21 March 2021 (EDT)

I'll add that to the list of things not to do! Thanks for putting me straight! :) Phil 22:26, 21 March 2021 (EDT)
Welcome to Amazon's shenanigans - it had been a real pain to add new ebooks lately - especially from small publishers. These guys paid for ISBNs, Amazon is hiding them :). Add a note that it is not printed in the book when it is not there though :) Annie 22:33, 21 March 2021 (EDT)
Is there a reason I don't always see the Amazon links section in the left menu even if the pub has an ASIN assigned? I see it for some titles but not others. Phil 15:52, 22 March 2021 (EDT)
ISBN :) You see them if there is ISBN, you do not if there is no ISBN :) Annie 16:04, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

Imperial Twilight

Hello, concerning this submission you state you have a copy in hand, but still mention "Data from on 2021-04-05" in the notes without specifying which data came from Amazon. If you will primary verify, as you state, then can you clarify what data is coming from Amazon? Thanks! Regards, MagicUnk 15:39, 11 April 2021 (EDT)

Same for this and this submission. MagicUnk 15:45, 11 April 2021 (EDT)

And this one and here. MagicUnk 16:15, 11 April 2021 (EDT)

I need some clarification. This the first time I have had this brought up. Do I assume that everything already in the publication is from if there are no other notes? Can you give me an example where what you are asking me to do has been done so I can model it? Phil 22:06, 11 April 2021 (EDT)
Let me assist here while MagicUnk is asleep. Yes - unless otherwise stated, the data should be from the sources listed. The older the book, the more problematic it is but... well, let's assume it is always the case. :)
See one of my latest verifications or here or this one (see the credit for the artist). By definition all data of a PV'd book comes from the book. When some pieces of it come from elsewhere (, the exact data that comes from there needs to be listed so it is clear what is NOT from the book. It is the same when the book is not PV'd except there the source listed with no list of what comes from it is presumed to be the source of all information not called specifically to be from elsewhere (thus was indeed the source of all data before you verified). Hope this makes sense.
If it helps: usually all BUT the date comes from the book for paperbacks so changing "Data from Amazon" to "Date from Amazon" or "Exact Date from Amazon" is enough to fix the wording. For ebooks, it may be "Date and price". Or you can do "Initial data from Amazon" and then list the elements confirmed via the book (or not confirmed because they are not in the book). As long as it is clear which data is checked where and when (your PV date shows when the book was consulted so no need to date that if you do not want to), we are all good. How much more details you want to add from the book is up to you. Annie 22:55, 11 April 2021 (EDT)
That helps a lot. I am mostly updating and PVing ebooks I own at this point though I will get to working on the physical books I own as well. I have been doing the PVs after my changes are approved. Is that the right sequence? Looking back at the edit history of a couple of the examples seems to show a bunch of changes made after the PV was done.
Since I can't edit the submissions that are still pending approval to make the changes, I'll cancel them and resubmit with better wording. I'll also update the two that were already just approved to fix the wording. Phil 07:45, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
The order is fine. Just make sure you add to the moderator note that you are going to PV after the changes (so you can look them over one more time) and you won’t get asked why you are dropping the sources from the notes. :) Alternatively you can PV before the changes but as the updates can get mixed up or delayed, there will be a time where you had PVd an incorrect record. So I would say to keep your current sequence, just tell us of your plans.
One thing I noticed a few months after I started editing was that I was writing really crappy notes when I started. Not wrong but incomplete or with issues like the one we are discussing here. So going over all your PVd books after you had done a few dozen of them (and rechecking the notes) may be useful. :) Not required or mandatory, just sharing a bit of personal experience. Annie 08:05, 12 April 2021 (EDT)

Amazon prices

So for cases like this one, we want the historical price, not the price as it is now. We are a bibliography - it is a 2016 book, a 2016 price is better than a 2021 one. The 2021 one can go into the notes but let's keep the closest to list page at publication that we can find. I rewrote the note - see what you think about it (and feel free to rewrite). Especially with ebooks, there are a lot of special prices (and once a cheaper paper copy comes out, it tends to get lower - thus the dates in the notes). Thanks! Annie 16:27, 16 April 2021 (EDT)

PS: And let's not lose the date the book was initially entered on. :) Annie 16:29, 16 April 2021 (EDT)
I'm inching closer to getting this right! :) Thanks for pointing out how to do this better. Phil 17:34, 16 April 2021 (EDT)
No worries. :) Think "historical bibliography" when you edit - the earliest price is what needs to match the date in the date field; any other prices go into the notes. Now - if you bought it at publication and have a price from then and ours is later, yours wins unless it is known to be a promotional one. ;) That's why in some books we will have a price from the publisher site and Amazon and Kobo and B&N dates added in the notes. :) Annie 17:58, 16 April 2021 (EDT)
So what should be done about a publication like St. Legier whose Amazon cost was entered from overseas and because of that has an artificially inflated price? I preordered this ebook myself and paid $5.99 on 2018-12-09. Phil 07:05, 27 April 2021 (EDT)


I approved your submission for the e-book version of Demigod. Unfortunately, even though the ISBN is on the title page, it's wrong, bad checksum. I eliminated it and added it to the notes. Bob 12:33, 20 April 2021 (EDT)

Thanks! I saw that after I did the submission and hoped a moderator would fix it so I didn't have to resumbit. Phil 12:36, 20 April 2021 (EDT)


Regarding this submission: What is the source of the different date? Is it within the ebook itself or just the B&N listing? If you compare yours with the Amazon Look Inside for the Kindle edition or there any differences? If it's the same book just released at different times on the two platforms, I wouldn't create a separate record. If there are other differences, then separate records would make more sense. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 12:13, 8 May 2021 (EDT)

Same questions for this submission. -- JLaTondre (talk) 12:15, 8 May 2021 (EDT)

The contents appear to be the same with different pub dates on the B&N, Baen, and Amazon websites. What bothers me is that the pub date for the Nook edition is 11/29, Baen edition is 11/30, and Amazon is 12/4. The existing record uses the 11/30 Baen date but the Amazon data which seems wrong. Separate records seemed the best way to deal with this. I'm not sure how to put everything into one record that I can primary verify. Suggestions?
BTW, the same problem exists for title Heirs to Trouble which was published on the exact same dates. However, for that pub, there are already two different records but the data with the 11/30 date has the wrong ISBN while showing Amazon info. Again, suggestions? Phil 13:39, 8 May 2021 (EDT)
We base the information off the publication first and off secondary sources second. Since the Amazon Look Inside shows a November 2017 copyright statement, I would go with a single record dated 2017-11-00 and a publication note stating that B&N shows availability as of 11/29, Baen as of 11/30, and Amazon as of 12/4. Another option would be to date the publication to the earliest date and include the same statement. If we had similar different bookseller dates for a physical book, we would not create multiple records.
For Heirs to Trouble, I would do the same (deleting the wrong one). Thoughts? -- JLaTondre (talk) 14:49, 8 May 2021 (EDT)
OK. I'll delete the submissions and create a pub update based on what you suggested using the 2017-11-00 date and put the notes into the pub record. I'm assuming I should also change the Title record date to match? Ditto for Heirs to Trouble. Phil 15:11, 8 May 2021 (EDT)

Patreon editions of Glynn Stewart's works

Thank for submitting the Patreon editions of Glynn Stewart's books and sorry about the processing delays!

It looks like what you are trying to do is to create new "publication", i.e. edition, records for these novels. They have separate and distinct publication dates and prices, so it would seem that they should be separate publication records as opposed to notes under their respective title records. Does this make sense? Ahasuerus 13:30, 11 July 2021 (EDT)

I originally intended to create new pubs but took this approach due to the advice given on this Help Desk posting back in February. I'm perfectly willing to do it either way but really need a definitive answer as to which way to do it. Glynn is quite prolific and there will be plenty more of these editions to add over time. Phil 14:37, 11 July 2021 (EDT)
Oops, I must have missed that discussion! I have posted a reply with additional info and also copied the whole thing to the Rules and standards discussions page. Let's see where it takes us... Ahasuerus 15:30, 11 July 2021 (EDT)
The Rules and Standards discussion has been inconclusive so far. I have approved the submissions for the time being -- if we decide to change the data entry standards in the future, the affected record will be easy to find by searching Title Notes fields for the word "Patreon". Thanks for submitting them! Ahasuerus 14:40, 15 July 2021 (EDT)
You're welcome. I'll continue to do the same thing as new books are released. If there is a change and pub records are created, I'll also be able to upload the covers. Phil 17:42, 15 July 2021 (EDT)

The Black Chronicles

Hello Phil! I approved your submission of The Long Black, but I suppose that there are two series with the same title The Black Chronicles. Could that be the case? Regards Rudolf Rudam 15:04, 2 August 2021 (EDT)

I did a quick check on Goodreads and there are indeed two different "The Black Chronicles" series. The older one is by J. A. Sanderlin and the newer one is by J. M. Anjewierden. The one for my submission needs to be changed to a new differentiated one. What's the best way to do that? Thanks! Phil 16:19, 2 August 2021 (EDT)
Differentiating series names can be done by appending author's name between brackets for one of the two. MagicUnk 13:44, 22 August 2021 (EDT)

Age of Deception

Hi. I have your submission on hold for a moment as I am wondering if there is a reason you cloned this ebook publication, instead of editing the already-existing one? We generally do not create separate US and UK versions of a single ebook UNLESS they are distinguishable, eg by having different ISBNs. If there are differences, clearly state so in the notes field. If there are not, please edit the already-existing publication record. Thanks! MagicUnk 13:43, 22 August 2021 (EDT)

I think I chose wrong. I forgot to check the contents in the UK listing using the 'Look Inside' feature to make sure the two essays were there. Since they are, I'll edit the existing record and cancel the held submission. When I'm done, I'll primary verify since I have the ebook in hand. Thanks! Phil 16:44, 22 August 2021 (EDT)

The Dreaming Tree

Can you please check this one? If the ebook you have is from 1997, it cannot have ISBN13. If it has ISBN13, it is a later/updated version and needs to be re-dated. Thanks! Annie 11:17, 31 August 2021 (EDT)

This is definitely Version 1 of the ebook. Both Amazon and the publisher's website says the ebook pub date is 1997-12-01. Since the ISBN is only referenced on the publisher's website and not in the ebook, I'm going to remove it from the record. I'm really dubious that a DAW ebook was published in 1997 though. Phil 13:15, 31 August 2021 (EDT)
Or use the ISBN10 (better than lose it - it belongs to the work after all) - some sites tend to convert when posting older books because they forget ISBN10 was a thing. :) Annie 13:22, 31 August 2021 (EDT)
Switched to ISBN10 and submitted :) Phil 13:29, 31 August 2021 (EDT)

1636: Seas of Fortune

$7.73 sounds like $6.99+10.5% tax :) So I fixed the price. If it was indeed priced at 7.73, please correct it back :) Two more things: - When cloning back in time, all existing titles need to be redated back to the oldest date. I fixed them - Are the maps different from the ones in the paperback? If not, they need merging/varianting (in case of titles/authors differences although they will need to be explained). The book is here. As usual - if you have questions, please do not hesitate. Annie 19:27, 8 September 2021 (EDT)

I bought the ebook on for $7.73 (before tax) on 2014-01-01 so I'll change it back.
You beat me on the redating of the titles. I was going to submit them tomorrow but I guess I should have submitted them at the same time. Is that the best practice? :)
As to the maps, I believe they are all the same. I have proof of the author(s) in my owned copy. The title names I used are my attempt to follow the naming rules in the template. The names used in the other pubs are non-standard so I don't see that they should be a variant (plus they are missing the author credit). The ones for the paperback edition here are also incomplete. What should be done? I don't see any tool I can use to merge them even if I change their titles. Phil 22:42, 8 September 2021 (EDT)
I think that was the time they had the tax included on eBooks - but that’s fine. Make sure it is clear what date the price is from. :)
Merge is done via advanced search on titles of pub level or author level duplicate finders cannot catch them. If you are still not sure how, I can post some more instructions tomorrow. :) And yes - date changes and so on should be submitted in parallel with the clone. Or someone will remind you not to forget them. :) Annie 23:57, 8 September 2021 (EDT)
OK. I'm going to try to merge the older non-standard map titles into my new standard titles. Phil 08:10, 9 September 2021 (EDT)
Shout if you need help :) Annie 11:51, 9 September 2021 (EDT)

Epic: Fourteen Books of Fantasy

A few things about this one:

  • Anthology is for a group of stories or poems by multiple authors; when there are at least 2 novels in the list, the type is ombinus
  • When using Goodreads in the notes, add the ID for it in the external IDs
  • Can we try importing next time so I do not need to merge that many titles? :)

I fixed #1 and #3, will leave you to fix #2 and to add either notes or the first publications themselves for the stories/novels which were not merged and whose date do not match the publication date. Annie 17:58, 23 September 2021 (EDT)

Crime and...

You may have a bit of a typo in the title of Blaze Ward's essay here - unless it is really called "Crime, and... (Crime and...)". I also marked the anthology as non-genre so it is clear why we have partial contents. Annie 18:26, 23 September 2021 (EDT)

Nope. That's actually how it's spelled. (Before regularization it was "Crime, And…") :) I thought about marking it non-genre but wasn't sure. So if it's more than 50% non-genre, mark it non-genre? Phil 22:03, 23 September 2021 (EDT)
So it has the stuff in the brackets in there? OK then.
Genre publications are all in; non-genre ones only get their genre contents. So if I am skipping stories because they are not genre, the non-genre flag goes on the publication. This one is easy - with only 1 story being ours, the whole publication is absolutely non-genre. Annie 22:17, 23 September 2021 (EDT)
Drat. The part in parentheses are indeed a goof. I'll fix it. Phil 22:21, 23 September 2021 (EDT)

Interview credits

Interviews are a bit special - we cannot variant Interviewees so canonical names need to be used - see the help page. You can add notes in the publication and in the interview on exact credit. I fixed it here. Annie 14:31, 27 September 2021 (EDT)

Tales from the Archives: Volume 1

Just a reminder - you could have done both edits in the EditPub. When a title has a single publication, you can change the date, authors and title of the title record inside of the publication :) Annie 15:24, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

Looks like I need to have this title removed as a variant from this title so that I can then merge the two titles together correctly. The correct data is in this record. Phil 16:23, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
Yup. But because you caught me in a good mood, I did the untangling for you this time :) Annie 16:26, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
Thank you! :) Phil 16:29, 29 September 2021 (EDT)


The maps here have very uncommon and non-standard naming. Use "The Island of Avristar" or "The Island of Avristar (map)" or even "The Island of Avristar (map)(Surrender)" if you must but this format "Surrender (map: The Island of Avristar)" is wrong on so many levels for the DB... for one - we put the book name in the brackets, not the actual name of the entry. And map is always added on its own in brackets and not as a part of... something. Would you mind fixing these? Thanks! Annie 19:08, 8 October 2021 (EDT)

Sure. I thought I was following the correct naming standard for interior art which says "Interior art should have the same title as the fiction or essay it is associated with." but I'll fix these and do it the way you requested going forward . Phil 22:02, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
That means that if the story is called "The World of A", the interior art which illustrates it is called "The World of A", not that we make up a long name out of whole cloth. See the next sentence: "If it is independent of other content, and has no apparent title or caption" - yours have its own name. If it is not attached to anything special, it will be called "Surrender" or "Surrender (map)". But as you have a name here, you can use that. We add (map) to maps to separate them from illustrations (as a practice). Hope that makes sense. :) Annie 22:10, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
That makes sense. Thanks. :) Phil 22:17, 8 October 2021 (EDT)

Linking ISO disks?

Hi! Have you thought of adding links like I did for my Box Set[1] to Warlord[2] and the rest of your BAEN ISO's so they connect to the ISO disks?Kraang 22:33, 10 October 2021 (EDT)

If there's a better way to link them, I'd be happy to change what I've done and will do so going forward. How do you setup those links when the problem I'm working around is an omnibus included in another omnibus? Phil 22:45, 10 October 2021 (EDT)
I was thinking more like the link I added to Warlord[3]. also the overall Omnibus ISO's could use a bit more structure(better grouping of series and collections). As for the omnibus in an omnibus I'll have to look back at previous work to see how I handled it, been away for three years and I'm a bit rusty on somethings.Kraang 23:28, 10 October 2021 (EDT)
Thanks. I like the way you did the link on "Warlord" and will both incorporate links going forward and put them in place for the existing titles. I am thinking about what would make sense for a better structure for these CDs/ISOs but it may take a while to implement. The need to use the included omnibus regular titles instead of the omnibus title names makes it especially complex. Phil 16:13, 11 October 2021 (EDT)
Is the order of publication I see on The Honorverse[4] disk the same as the ISO order? As for the omnibus problem, what you have now would appear best and the note you have helps explain it. I was thinking of ordering the books as novels, anth. , coll. then omnb. with any intros and excerpts with the appropriate section and order numbers displayed.Kraang 17:12, 11 October 2021 (EDT)
The ISO is an exact image of the CD so it has the same directory structure. There is a display order on the index webpage that tends to show titles ordered within series for the focus author for the CD. The extra titles are a bit more variable on how they are shown but most often just shown by title grouped alphabetically by author on a secondary webpage. I could try to change to that sequencing but that still leaves the omnibus title problem (grrr...). I rather like your idea for grouping alphabetically by type. That would let me put the omnibus titles last as they are now. Phil 18:11, 11 October 2021 (EDT)

Go a head and reorder them. Lets just do the Honorverse one first, get it displayed right and use that for the others.Kraang 18:42, 11 October 2021 (EDT)

I was thinking a little more aggressive. Such as giving the Honor Harington novels a single number say 2 and the ten on the list would 2.1. 2.2, 2.3 etc. The intro about the disk would be 1. Anything with a series would get its own number. If you want I can do this one as an example. I may display the numbers on some to see how it looks.Kraang 23:06, 11 October 2021 (EDT)
Go ahead. I'm great at following good examples! :) Phil 07:56, 12 October 2021 (EDT)
How does this look. Each number is the beginning of a series or a single book(The Honorverse[5]).Kraang 18:28, 12 October 2021 (EDT)
I kinda like it but someone should add a note inside of the publication explaining the numbering and what is showing - because otherwise someone will helpfully put the visible ones behind pipes sooner or later :) Annie 18:45, 12 October 2021 (EDT)
Note added.Kraang 21:30, 12 October 2021 (EDT)
I like this and can do it for the other CDs/ISOs. There's one change I'd like to see in the sequencing which is to move the "Worlds of Honor Anthologies" to immediately after "War of Honor". That puts all of the Honorverse titles together per the theme of the CD as well as making the sequence match the title sequence on the website index page of the CD. Phil 21:56, 12 October 2021 (EDT)

OK, made the change in in title order.Kraang 22:27, 12 October 2021 (EDT)

Thanks! That looks great! I'll use this as a template for the rest of the Baen CD-ROM Library series. I'll start fixing the rest of the existing series members and then go back to adding new members.
A question. Now that we have a solid version for the Honorverse CD, should I just clone it and make the minor changes needed to create the ISO title as well? I do have the ISO in hand so it would be easy to do. Phil 07:33, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
Not a subject I known much about. I thought the ISO was the CD ROM. If their two different things than yes.Kraang 11:38, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
Had a quick look at the subject and and the ISO is the download version and the CD ROM was the physical. Got it.Kraang 11:42, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
I've been thinking some more about the ISO versus CD-ROM situation. I've been planning that each type should have its own separate title but am I wrong? Should there only be a single title but two publications, one for the CD and a different one for the ISO with (ISO) added to the title name? Phil 17:21, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
IF the ISO is the downloadable version of the disk, they get one Title, two publications if their titles match. If they don't match, they get separate titles and one of them become a variant of the other. If all you want is to do is to add the ISO on the title so they are separate, don't :) Just use the same title and explain the format in the notes of the publication. We do not do separate titles for ebook, hc, pb and cd after all. No reason to do it differently here IF they are the same. See how all formats use the same title for example (yeah, I know - more complicated but the principle is the same). We do not spin a new title for format change, we do it for title/author/language change and contents change.Hope that makes sense. :)Annie 17:29, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
Single title it is with two publications. I have a little bit of cleanup to do! :) Phil 17:41, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
Famous last words. There is always some cleanup to be done around here... :d Annie 17:48, 13 October 2021 (EDT)

Tales from High Hallack: The Collected Short Stories of Andre Norton, Book 1

The Cleanup Report Publication Title-Reference Title Mismatches show Your pv pub, too. So the question is how the title on title page is printed? The title of publication has to be the same as the collection title. --Zapp 15:47, 14 October 2021 (EDT)

The title page reads exactly "Tales from High Hallack The collected short stories of Andre Norton, book 1". Should I make this pub a variant of the current title to fix the problem or is there something else that should be done instead? Phil 16:00, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
Yep, unmerge yours and variants will need to be created. As a rule - if you are changing a publication title, you either change the title one at the same time (if there is only one pub) or you split out from the bigger title and get yourself a variant. . And I wonder if the other ones do not need some massaging. I'd check with their PVs to see what is on their title pages if I were you. Ha, one of them is you. How convenient. So both ebooks have different title pages? Annie 16:33, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
How do you unmerge a title? And yes, both ebooks I own have different title pages! However, I just double checked this one and it is correct. Phil 16:54, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
Go on the title page. Look on the left for a menu called "Unmerge Titles]. :) There is a help page once you start the process (here is it directly. One warning - never use that to try to pull novels out from omnibuses - it will create a new novel with the name of the omnibus. This is what Remove Titles is for. The UI WILL show you the ability to uunmerge from inside of the omnibuses but it is... not what you want. In this case no omnibuses involved so no issues. Annie 17:06, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
Thanks! I looked for the tool on the pub instead of the title. Sigh... Unmerge submitted. I'll create the variant once it's approved. Phil 17:14, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
Think of it this way - you remove title from a publication which kicks a title from a pub but does not change any titles so it belongs inside of a pub menu. When you are splitting titles, you want each of the publications to keep a copy - you will get 1 or more new titles. The newly created titles get their names and authors and dates from the publication you split it with (so if you check 4 checkboxes on that screen, there will be 4 new titles); the old one remains the same. Which also means that sometimes the old one needs re-dating - if the early guys had been kicked out, it is the reverse process of importing future dates. And sometimes the 4 you just split out need to actually be merged together :) Always fun around the DB :)
PS: First title wins in such cases on the variants - so the parent will be the first one (date-wise) unless there is a very good reason for a reversed variant. Annie 17:27, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
Second PS: As "The Collected Short Stories of Andre Norton" is the series and we do NOT record the series as part of the name of a book even when it is there on the title page (we use simplified titles), are you really sure you want to carry that long name and not just "Tales from High Hallack: Book 1". This will be more in sync of how we record titles (and sooner or later someone will decide to clean your title for you. Annie 17:30, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
Changed the title and pub names to "Tales from High Hallack: Book 1". So, since this title date is 2 days earlier than "Tales from High Hallack, Volume 1", "Volume 1" should become the variant, correct? Phil 22:13, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
Yup. I did not look but make sure the coverart title is also fixed. And you technically have a few essays that need splitting as well - the ones that carry the book name on them (if we want to be by the rules as strictly written anyway. I usually do not press too much on that when the difference is in Book/Volume/Vol. or 1/I and similar but the cover title will need to be fixed). :) Annie 22:23, 14 October 2021 (EDT)

Thanks for solving that problem. --Zapp 13:52, 15 October 2021 (EDT)

Glad to help. Phil 18:44, 15 October 2021 (EDT)

Tales from High Hallack, Volume 1

HI! The title says Book 1[6] but the cover illustration is Volume 1. Is the cover image incorrect and the inner title "Book 1". THanks.Kraang 23:06, 14 October 2021 (EDT)

See the thread just above this one. :) We do need a note on the discrepancy in the Pub notes though. Annie 23:12, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
I'll add the note when I correct the titles of the two essays. Phil 09:43, 15 October 2021 (EDT)

The Honorverse Disk Authors

If I approve this, you will have a publication author different from the reference title author which is a big no-no around the DB. I do not see any other updates pending so there are two ways this can go technically:

  • You can split the title and variant it to this once I approve the author change.
  • Both pubs and the title here get unknown as an author.

As there are no moderator notes telling me what direction you are going and this single update will leave everything midway, I am making sure that you plan to finish the needed updates - so I am checking on the plan before I approve. Thanks! :) Annie 04:06, 20 October 2021 (EDT)

Oof. I did this trying to follow the advice given near the bottom of this Help Desk topic. At the time, I was thinking that the physical CD-ROMs would have a different title than the ISO images so one could be "uncredited" and the other be "unknown". I changed my mind and have since been working under the assumption that they are just two different publications of the same title and forgot about the author differences. While writing this note, I've also come to the conclusion that I have been misapplying the advice since with the ISO images, I am still working with a primary source, not a secondary source as I somehow originally assumed. Therefore, the author for all of the ISO images should be "uncredited" just like it is for the CD-ROMs. Does this make sense? It if does, I'll change the author for the titles and pubs I've already created for ISOs from "unknown" to "uncredited" and cancel this submission. Phil 08:34, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
I’d use uncredited for both. Unknown on a publication is for cases where we literally have no idea who may be credited as the author because the only source we have has only a title but no author. Very very rare. We are more likely to variant into unknown (when we know that there is a ghost writer but still have no clue who). Add the note that the credit is based on the format you have if that will make you feel better. :) Annie 08:44, 20 October 2021 (EDT)

Imports, Imports, imports...

You know that we have an Import function and this could have been avoided (including all the typing), right? Go and merge things now please :) Annie 15:12, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

I haven't used Import enough that it even occurred to me. I'll certainly use it in the future - there are still another 11 Baen CD-ROM Library titles to do so there'll be plenty of opportunity! BTW, it hasn't been a lot of typing. I'm using a spreadsheet and doing a bunch of cut and paste both to build the entries where possible and then to enter them into the Add Omnibus form. I'll get the merges submitted later tonight. Phil 18:02, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
Typing or copy/pasting and then merging and then having someone to approve the merges. Still more work for you and for the moderators than it could have been. :) Import is your best friend. If it is one title, import or merge will take the same time so I tend not to care what people do - I will point to the import but won't insist. But for big omnibus editions? Well... :) Annie 18:15, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

The 1634: The Baltic War Disk

This is a huge one[7], I think adding some reference numbers in notes to the corresponding sections might help for this one.Kraang 13:08, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

It is huge and the most complex one so far. Are you thinking something like a section called "Title Quick Reference" with entries formated "Title #n" "Series/Universe name"? If there's only one title in a series or it's a bunch of unrelated titles, that could make the notes huge as well (and some of them are already big because of the omnibus notes). Do you have an example I could model on or adapt? For that matter, I'm going to have to go back to the other Baen CD-ROM Library titles and do the same expansions of the anthologies and collections. Doing the expansions for this one, I discovered some variations in a couple of the contents that I hadn't originally noticed and that we need to track. Phil 15:18, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
You have existing lists in notes already why not add the the sorting # to this. I'll have a better look today or tomorrow and maybe do a sample test.Kraang 15:32, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
Great! BTW, the existing lists in the notes are only for the contents of the omnibus titles since there wasn't any way to include an omnibus inside another omnibus and I didn't want to lose track of the titles that were actually included on the CD-ROM/ISO image. Phil 16:21, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
Minor change as a first idea I underlined series and collection titles with description beside three of them. Are there more titles to come, or is this complete?Kraang 18:25, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
That looks good. I think there's a space missing between the titles and the descriptions though. What do you think about underlining all of the omnibus titles in the notes so they stand out more? In any case, all the titles and notes are there and this pub is complete. Once we settle on this formatting, I'm ready to clone this pub to create the ISO pub version. Phil 22:15, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
Adjust and add as you see fit, I'm done for the night and won't be back unto tomorrow evening. I have some other ideas but they will have to wait. :)Kraang 22:30, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
I made some changes that I think help with clarity. Let me know what you think. Phil 07:26, 26 October 2021 (EDT)
Yes much better. It looks and feels more organized and easier to follow. How many more disc are there?Kraang 22:48, 26 October 2021 (EDT)
I'll put the same changes in the other existing titles. I have another 3 CD-ROMs in hand plus another 10 ISO images. If someone else has the missing CD-ROMs, they should be able to clone the ISO images and make the appropriate changes to match the format of what has already been done. Phil 07:15, 27 October 2021 (EDT)

Isaac Asimov writing as Paul French

As per the help page:

  • "For example, Isaac Asimov's "Lucky Starr" books were originally published under the pseudonym of Paul French, but later reprints were given both names: "by Isaac Asimov, writing as Paul French". In these cases you should still enter Paul French as the author and record the dual credit in the notes.".

I fixed it here. And yes - we probably have a few copies that need fixing but still - let's not add new copies with the wrong author credit :) Annie 02:04, 22 November 2021 (EST)

Thanks! I cloned it so I didn't think to check the fields help. I suspect the clone source is also wrong but it doesn't have the note so I can't be sure. :) Phil 08:33, 22 November 2021 (EST)
Well - it made me laugh. It is literally the example we are using to explain how to add the author in these cases. :) Sometimes some of the very old books are added before the rules were agreed on (and sometimes an editor was just asleep at the wheel). So... always check things when they look interesting. :) Annie 08:46, 22 November 2021 (EST)
One thing: As we always go by the title page of the book I assumed that when you said "The author is shown as "Isaac Asimov writing as Paul French".", that's what you meant. If that is not the case and the title page says something else, we need to update again and explain what says what and where (and the title page will determine how we handle the author field). Thanks! Annie 09:02, 22 November 2021 (EST)
All is well. That's exactly what it has on the title page. Phil 11:17, 22 November 2021 (EST)

Four Roads Cross

As Paw Press is a UK company, the Price field will contain the UK price here. Out of curiosity: why adding the German price to a UK book? Annie 20:35, 6 December 2021 (EST)

OK. Missed that in the fine print. :) Do I need to make that change for his other pubs where I have both prices? It was simultaneously released on Amazon in the US, UK, DE, and AUS. I had a link to the site for the price so I thought I'd include it. If it's a problem, I won't do it in the future. Phil 22:22, 6 December 2021 (EST)
There are multi-country publishers and there it is fair game. But the ones domiciled in one country? Unless they are publishing for a different country, we want their home currency. With ebooks, if the price is weird (2.62 or something), look around the other 3 English language Amazons and see where the price is "proper" - 99% of the cases, that's your proper domicile for the book. With other languages, it is trickier. Usually language follows the Amazon (except for Spanish (Spain/Mexico) and Portuguese (Amazon Spain, Germany or Netherlands for the European version; Brazil for the Brazilian where you need to figure out which side of the ocean that edition is from) but there are publishers who actually price in US$ - and just convert for the non-US markets even when the text is not English - usually self-publishing or publishers which belong to authors.
BTW: I fixed one more this evening. You can add as many prices as you want to the notes so the German one is not a problem - I was just curious). But yes - if you have other cases like that and the same publisher published, I'd swap them. One day we may have a multi-field in there so all prices will be on equal footing but in the meantime - follow the publisher. Annie 23:31, 6 December 2021 (EST)

Four from the Witch World

Hi, I just saw that this publication has February stated in the notes but March (1989-03-00) in the publication date field. Christian Stonecreek 01:39, 9 December 2021 (EST)

Thanks for catching that. Fixes to the pub and title have been submitted. Phil 06:57, 9 December 2021 (EST)

The Expanding Universe Volume 3

In your copy of this anthology, will you check on the spelling of the story by T. M. Catron? Is it "Fugitive's Gamble" or "Fugitives' Gamble"? I ask because I have the printed version of the anthology and mine is spelled "Fugitives' Gamble". Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:15, 17 December 2021 (EST)

The ebook shows "Fugitives’ Gamble" as well. I missed that. Go ahead and make that title change. Phil 20:05, 17 December 2021 (EST)

Shadow of a Dark Queen

Regarding your changes to Shadow of a Dark Queen, shouldn't the 'Novindus (map)' be page [6] since the page number is not printed? John Scifibones 23:21, 17 December 2021 (EST)

My interpretation of the page number rules is that the [#] construct is only used for pages that are before the numbered pages and where the unnumbered page would be before the first numbered page even if it is only derived from the first actual printed page number. In this case, the publisher apparently started numbering with the first printed page after the cover which is the half-title page but doesn't actually print a number on a page until page 8. Hope that makes sense. :) Phil 06:35, 18 December 2021 (EST)
The first numbered page is page 8. The map is in the series of unnumbered pages before page 8. The second bullet point under "Pages without a printed page number" here applies, making this [6]. This also explaines the numbering in the last note, "Cast of Characters" spans pages [7] - 9.
The first bullet point only applies to pages within a series of printed number. You have correctly shown page 11 without brackets even though it is unnumbered, since it occurs after page 8, the first numbered page. John Scifibones 08:20, 18 December 2021 (EST)
OK. Looks like I overthought it. I'll make the change. Phil 08:43, 18 December 2021 (EST)
I only pointed this out because I think you are doing a great job and I can tell you care. Every additional pair of eyes that look at a record have the potential to make that record better. Thanks for your hard work! John Scifibones 09:07, 18 December 2021 (EST)
Appreciated. There are so many twisty details in this application that it's challenging getting everything right! Cheers! Phil 09:34, 18 December 2021 (EST)

Belgarath the Sorcerer

Phil, there are two problems with your changes to Belgarath the Sorcerer.

  • The page number 'fep & bep' is not allowed by standards. I'm suprised this got by the moderator. Pick either fep or bep.Then, change the relevant note to "Endpaper map copyright © 1995 Larry Schwinger" used on both front and back endpapers. This wording is just for illustration, use whatever feels correct.
  • 'Larry Schwinger' is an alternate name of 'Laurence Schwinger'. Make Belgarath the Sorcerer (maps, endpaper) a variant of Belgarath the Sorcerer (gatefold map) using the top half of the make variant form. Tell me if this is new to you, I will do it and explain variants more fully. The best way to have hadled this title would have been to import Belgarath the Sorcerer (gatefold map), That's what all the other pubs are using. We now the same map with different titles. If you wish to go this route. just merge your title with the last one I showed you.

John Scifibones 12:34, 18 December 2021 (EST)

Agree about the page number and will change. However, if anything, the gatefold maps are the variant because they are from the paperback editions which were published later than the hardcover editions. Plus the endpaper art is specifically credited to Larry Schwinger on the copyright page so the record needs to show that even though 'Larry Schwinger' is a variant of 'Laurence Schwinger'. Phil 17:52, 18 December 2021 (EST)
Ignore the names of the titles for a minute. This edit linked the two titles so that they would both appear on the cononical author's bibliography page here. Take a look at Help:How to record a variant title under the section 'Two Existing Entries'.
This edit not technically necessary, changed the names to show your map name as the parent. To see why it wasn't necessary, look at the parent title. Notice that both variants exist. If you click on any of the pb pubs, it still shows the 'gatefold' title, even though I changed the name of the parent. The same would have been true of the hc if I didn't change the title. Do you understand? Walk through all of this then ask questions. When this is clear, we'll look at another type of variant. (Unless you don't want to.)
I left the page number for you to fix. John Scifibones 19:45, 18 December 2021 (EST)
Thanks. I'm still wrapping my head around the variant process. In this case, I forgot that you have to create a variant parent if the author is not the cannonical author name. I see how to do it but hadn't done it myself yet. (Keeping the submission flow moving while waiting for approvals is painful.) I can think of these types of variants:
  • Straight title name variants where the author has the same name but the title varies. (These are straight forward and I have done them as well as Title unmerge and then variant.)
  • Author name variants where the title has an author where the author is a variant of the cannonical author name (as above). (Haven't done these but think I see how now.)
Are there others? (BTW I may be slow responding for the next few days due to the holidays.) Phil 07:30, 19 December 2021 (EST)
No problem, answer when/if it suits you mood/schedule!

Variants Continued

The situation you reference above, new title under an alternative name where the parent doesn't exist is explained in A Single Entry Under an Alternate Name. The mechanics of all variants fall into either section one or section two.

Here are some 'Alternate Names with Canonical Titles' which you have created. Taking care of them will give you some practice. I'm not saying whether a parent exists or not, you will have to determine that yourself. Claire N. Vaccaro, Travis Taylor, Elizabeth Scarborough, Karen Rigley, Kevin Johnson, C. Lee Healy, Pauline Griffin, Louis Glanzman, Donato.

You asked what other situations require variant treatment.

  • Translations are handled via make variant. (To see the example, make sure your preferences are set to Display translations on Author and Series pages All and 'Check' Display translations on Title pages) In 2019, an Englsih language magazine published a translation of an Austrian poet's German language poem, from 1976.
  1. This title is the English translation created the same as any other content title.
  2. This variant creates the German parent. Note all the fields we can access in one step. Here is how it looks on the Author's Bibliography.
  • Serializations are also handled via make variant. A serial title is merely another form of content title. Make variant is used to link the serial to a title record. Here is the relevant help section.

I know you could have looked all this up when you needed to, I did this to give you an easy reference while you get comfortable with the process. Hope it is of some use. John Scifibones 18:36, 19 December 2021 (EST)

Polgara the Sorceress

I was going to supply the promised primary varification for Polgara the Sorceress, but, I see the same problem as 'Belgarath the Sorcerer'. This one just needs the page number corrected, it has already been properly varianted. John Scifibones 12:47, 18 December 2021 (EST)

Submitted fixes for this one. Phil 17:32, 18 December 2021 (EST)


We only add the publication title as a disambiguation for generic essay titles (Introduction, Foreword, etc.). We do not add it to fiction. If the author reuses a fiction title, we record the titles as per the publication and add a title note regarding the contents being different. So for the duplicate Keltichronicon titles, I added a title note of 'Author reuses "Keltichronicon" title in multiple publications. Do not merge without verifying content is the same.' vs. the proposed disambiguations. Feel free to tweak the notes to fit the content better if needed. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:12, 30 December 2021 (EST)

Thanks! One more item on my "Now I know how to do it right" list! Phil 12:33, 30 December 2021 (EST)

Balance of Trade

I rejected this one for now. These two types of essays can be indexed if the editor finds them substantial (like the essay I added here for example). At 2 pages each (possible 2 pages anyway based on page numbers), these may be worth retaining as essays. As there is a PV, Bob can check the book and decide if they are worth having or they are just blurbs. Annie 18:24, 11 January 2022 (EST)

OK. I'll check with him. Phil 18:48, 11 January 2022 (EST)
After reviewing the Help text, I've decided that they meet the criteria and won't re-propose removing them. Phil 07:52, 12 January 2022 (EST)

Beyond the Veil

Hello. I have your submission on hold as I am in doubt about the correctness of the date. In the notes you state "Gutter code "Q11" (March 1986) on page 213 indicates probable first printing", while recorded date is 1986-05-00. Could you check and/or clarify? Thanks! MagicUnk 10:46, 18 January 2022 (EST)

That is the correct gutter code. I took the month from the Gutter Code Help page. This seems to be a common issue for all three of the Sacred Band of Stepsons / Beyond series SFBC editions. Phil 10:57, 18 January 2022 (EST)
Do we know where the recorded date of May 1986 is coming from? Should we update it to March ? I'm not an expert on gutter codes and its relationship with publication dates, but I'm wondering... MagicUnk 15:50, 18 January 2022 (EST)
Locus1 as it says in the first note. :) Phil 17:51, 18 January 2022 (EST)
Oops, sorry about that. :) Thanks for the clarification! MagicUnk 04:22, 19 January 2022 (EST)

The Mageborn Traitor Re forced reject

Hi Phil. I had to do a forced reject of this title[8] the other night. You can copy the work from what I see in the link and resubmit. Thanks.Kraang 17:10, 21 January 2022 (EST)

Thanks. Resubmitted. Phil 18:23, 21 January 2022 (EST)

The Runelords

Hi Phil! You want to change the title[9] to the British variant "The Sum of All Men" plus add interior art under that title in the American edition. Just checking if this is a copy paste error or am I missing something. Thanks!Kraang 13:01, 26 January 2022 (EST)

The title page shows "The RuneLords: The Sum of All Men". Since the series name isn't supposed to be in the title, that leaves the title as "The Sum of All Men", hence the changes. Am I misapplying the standard? BTW, the cover only shows "The Runelords". Phil 13:18, 26 January 2022 (EST)
I wonder if all Tor books have this on the title page, have a look at this in notes[10]. If that's the case than the title would be "The RuneLords: The Sum of All Men", which doesn't affect the series name. A bit more investigation maybe needed.Kraang 14:54, 26 January 2022 (EST)
If you click on[11] External ID "US" and use look inside the title page is "The RuneLords: The Sum of All Men" , also the look inside Paw Prints shows the same.Kraang 15:00, 26 January 2022 (EST)
If you use look inside of other "Runelord" series Books the "Tor Books for David Farland" just abbreviates the title to "The Runelords"Kraang 15:08, 26 January 2022 (EST)
Looks like I made the wrong change and it should be "The RuneLords: The Sum of All Men" for both the title and the new interior art. Once that's done, I'll need to Unmerge the title and make it another variant.
I also question if this pub actually exists or was a placeholder that should now go away. Phil 16:11, 26 January 2022 (EST)
Placeholder for this one (if you want another opinion). Zap it. Annie 16:45, 26 January 2022 (EST)
Delete submitted. Phil 16:50, 26 January 2022 (EST)
I think its safe to say all the pb's are the same but what about the hc's, no one has PV one and look inside is useless.Kraang 16:54, 26 January 2022 (EST)
Deleted , will be gone till later this evening.Kraang 16:56, 26 January 2022 (EST)
I'm working from a physical copy of US first edition and will PV once all my changes are in place. If you reject this submission, I'll resubmit everything along with the title and interior art title set to "The RuneLords: The Sum of All Men", then Unmerge and variant. Alternately, I think you can correct that submission as a mod and save one more approval. :) Phil 22:18, 26 January 2022 (EST)
You can self-reject - go to your pending changes and you will see the option. :) Mods can not correct - we can approve or reject. Then we can fix/restore (aka copy things back) but we cannot modify a submitted change. Annie 22:21, 26 January 2022 (EST)
Deleted , will be gone till later this evening.Kraang 16:56, 26 January 2022 (EST)
Here are several ideas to fix this.1-Leave everything as is.2-Change all the pubs and title record to "The RuneLords: The Sum of All Men" hc & pb(high probability this what all of them are) and if in the future the hc's have only "The Runelords" on the title page they can be unmerged and made variants. 3-Change only the pb's and unmerge the hc's now and make them variants, when a hc is PV in the future the title record can be left or reintegrated back to the longer title. Option 2 creating the hc variant is the easiest as a moderator, option 3 more work now and probably reintegration later. Thoughts?Kraang 22:27, 26 January 2022 (EST)
I agree with option 2. I think it's the most likely as well, especially since the Look-Inside of the ebook implies a 7th printing of the mass market pb as its source. I've submitted the changes for the interiorart and maps titles to make sure they aren't missed. The rest would be better done by a mod. :) Phil 07:57, 27 January 2022 (EST)
Away from computer will be back this evening. Will walk you through process this evening.Kraang 13:43, 27 January 2022 (EST)
More than happy to learn something new. Phil 17:23, 27 January 2022 (EST)
Ok. STEP 1-In edit this pub change the title & cover art in each pub to the longer version. STEP 2-in main tile record[12], click "Edit Title Data" & change to longer title. STEP 3-Pick a pub ie[13] and click cover link, again "Edit Title Data" to longer title. Since "The RuneLords" title is already a variant, the new title just replaces it and nothing else to do. Have at it.Kraang 20:09, 27 January 2022 (EST)
I think I submitted all of them except this where I asked the sole PV to check it and change if necessary. Phil 21:53, 27 January 2022 (EST)
One more, main title record[14] to change, if you look at a random pub[15] the title in Fiction and Essays is still "The Runelords", once changed than all done.Kraang 22:32, 27 January 2022 (EST)

Historical Notes (The Dragon Waiting) empty record

Hi Phil! Just as a heads up when unmerging records you have to check if the title[16] record is now empty. If more than one pub is connected to it this is not a problem. Two unmerged, one left empty which needs to be deleted. I'll let you submit the deletion.Kraang 19:43, 27 January 2022 (EST)

Submitted. Phil 21:41, 27 January 2022 (EST)
If you are unmerging every single book, then you could have just renamed the thing instead (or unmerged the ones that need a new title/author and renamed whatever remains behind) - that way you don't have anything to clean after that. That way we also don't lose the history of the old (now deleted) title. Either way works at the end - but just heads up for a possible option. :) Annie 10:47, 28 January 2022 (EST)
Thanks. In this case it was one I had just added so no real history to lose. I'll keep it in mind though. Phil 11:20, 28 January 2022 (EST)
Yep, noticed that - but it may be valid for other similar cases. You cannot submit the delete until the unmerge is approved (the system won't allow it). If you do a unmerge+rename, or just a rename (if all pubs need the new one), you can submit in parallel. As I said - just mentioning another way to get you to the same place. Thanks for taking care of this one :) Annie 11:35, 28 January 2022 (EST)

Temporary Agency

In your recent change to this pub, you seem to have mistakenly used Libris-XL instead of LCCN for the external entry. You may also want to PV it while you're there. ../Doug H 16:14, 29 January 2022 (EST)

The record shows he verified it on the 18th. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:36, 29 January 2022 (EST)
My bad. It was indeed LCCN and I did the PV too quickly. Fix submitted. Phil 16:57, 29 January 2022 (EST)
Nice to see a non-transient PV. ../Doug H 19:29, 29 January 2022 (EST)

Bujold; Since Lois McMaster Bujold has dozens of credits and Lois Bujold only has one, I think they're the same and the shorter name should be made a variant; the longer name has several interior art credits, too. --Username 23:14, 31 January 2022 (EST)

Agreed. Variants submitted. Phil 07:19, 1 February 2022 (EST)

Iron Butterflies; You just PV'd this book, and I searched for more info and found the ISBN on OL links to that book on, which has Iron Butterflies' ISBN on the copyright page but a totally different one on the covers. Don't know if that's useful or not. --Username 10:32, 7 February 2022 (EST)

Interesting OCLC problem. I saw that when preparing my edit for "Iron Butterflies" and have added the correct WorldCat ID in that edit. I didn't make a note of the OCLC lookup problem though. Phil 10:47, 7 February 2022 (EST)

Magic Cup; Futura edition's art has 1979 dates because that's original edition's date; not sure if you're aware. --Username 16:17, 9 February 2022 (EST)

I assume you are talking about the interior art. Since the Futura cover is different from the US edition, I'm not sure that the interior art isn't different as well. I couldn't find any signatures on the illustrations so I have to assume they are different. That's why I used the 1984 date. I'll happily change the date and author if someone can prove art is the same. Phil 16:31, 9 February 2022 (EST); Link is for 1979 McGraw-Hill edition; this,, shows, in photo #7, an illustration with a page of text next to it; I typed the phrase "feeding the chickens" from that page into the search box of the Archive copy and 1 hit came up, which was a page of text with the exact same illustration opposite. So I think they're the same. --Username 18:34, 9 February 2022 (EST)
You are correct. I'll change the artist to "Donald Dean Illustration Design" since that's how it is credited in the 1979 edition. Phil 22:10, 9 February 2022 (EST)

The Magic Cup: An Irish Legend

Hi Phil. I think the name change[17] maybe a copy paste error? If so I'll approve and remove extra bit. Thanks.Kraang 21:32, 10 February 2022 (EST)

Saw second submission looks more like a company name and not and individual name, so I'll approve.Kraang 21:37, 10 February 2022 (EST)
See entry above this one for an explanation; I helped him out. --Username 21:39, 10 February 2022 (EST)

The Pharaoh Contract

Please talk to the other active PV here to verify that their book also have the complete printer key and the same Canadian price. Thanks! Annie 06:41, 13 February 2022 (EST)

This was approved by GlennMcG. Phil 22:19, 13 February 2022 (EST)
Approved :) Annie 22:28, 13 February 2022 (EST)

Voices from the Sky

Hi Phil. Just a reminder to unmerge the changed title[18] and then merge with the existing variant.Kraang 21:36, 13 February 2022 (EST)

Thanks for the reminder. Unmerge submitted. Will merge after approval. Phil 22:16, 13 February 2022 (EST)

The Children of Anthi

Hi Phil,

This is a bad update. The original note reads:

  • "Stated 1st printing of 1985 Ace ed.".

Look at the note you are trying to put in its place

  • "No printer's key.". Nothing about a stated first printing.

Which means one of two things:

  • Your book is not the same as the one you are trying to edit - so approving this edit will essentially invalidate the 3 primary verifications we have and will lose us information.
  • Somehow 3 PVs, two of them active, missed that the notes say "STATED 1st printing" while the book does not say anything of the type - which is possible but they need to check their books.

Please discuss that with the 2 active PVs -- and figure out what the case is here. Thanks! Annie 16:58, 25 February 2022 (EST)

Would you also put this submission on hold for the same reason. It's the same issue and the same active PVs. Thanks! Phil 17:22, 25 February 2022 (EST)
Done. I'd hope any moderator would do the same but mistakes happen. Now I have them both so you can work with the PVs, figure out what is going on and then we can deal with that. :) I opened the first one almost by mistake - I have a lot of on holds on the board from Fixer (our robot) and my finger slipped into yours - and decided to hold it as I was there anyway). Annie 17:32, 25 February 2022 (EST)
Used this a lot in the past "Stated 1st printing of 1985 Ace ed." as a catch all for something like "Ace Original / July 1985". These where early days in the database and less detail was used.. As it is I no longer have the books & several hundred others. Need to figure what's gone and remove verifications.Kraang 19:25, 25 February 2022 (EST)
Found the books in the group not sold, replied to Phil on my page.Kraang 22:09, 25 February 2022 (EST)

Submission update. Mods can't approve submissions on hold by other moderators, will have to wait for Annie to pull hold or approve submission.Kraang 12:08, 27 February 2022 (EST)

Thor's Hammer

Hi Phil. One of the titles needs to be unmeged{] & a new variant created. Since there are reviews I would unmerge the 1988 Thor's Hammer, next, update the current 1979 title record to the 1979 pub title & last made the newly created 1988 title record(just unmerged) a variant.Kraang 21:45, 3 March 2022 (EST)

Yep. Had already planned to do so but had to get the pub title change approved first. Have submitted the unmerge and the title rename. Will create the variant after those are approved. Phil 22:28, 3 March 2022 (EST)
Excellent. Next lesson.Kraang 22:57, 3 March 2022 (EST)

Faerie Wars

Had to do some fixing for the name change on this title[19]. In this case there is another Interior Art title connected to it which caused a bit of a mixup in the variant display. I had to change the name back to fix the parent title record them unmerge the Faerie's Wars title, then change the name to Royo, next use advance search to find the parent cover art title record # since it already exists & create the new variant. I was thinking of walk you through the steps but I'll be busy for the next few days & it's probably better to learn the easier changes first. The second Royo was a stand alone title so only had to create a variant to the parent name. Cover art changes can be a little more complicated than fiction titles. Hope this helps.Kraang 22:59, 3 March 2022 (EST)

Link to: Series Number of Dresden Files short fiction

As you have PVd a Jim Butcher Dresden Files collection, you might be interested in this topic: Series Number of Dresden Files short fiction. If you have any comments, suggestions or objections then please post them to this topic on the Community Portal so that we keep the whole conversation in one place. Thank you. Teallach 09:52, 4 March 2022 (EST)

Those AddVariants

I approved these two by mistake because my brain is still waking up. Careful with the two menus:

  • AddVariant - create a new VARIANT. I almost never use that menu - you can use it to add translations or new spelling of titles (but it is better to add the book and then use MakeVariant) or when you need a new empty variant (very very very rarely and well documented).
  • MakeVariant - create a parent. That's the menu you usually look for.

I reversed the two Romas Kukalis variants you just added :) Annie 12:31, 7 March 2022 (EST)

Drat! I'll watch out in the future. Thanks for fixing them. Phil 13:29, 7 March 2022 (EST)

The Folk of the Air

As you verified this one last month, I hope you have easy access to it. Can you check if the Farrell character is Sam Farrell or Joe Farrell? I have a feeling that we have a name switch in this series which may explain some things around the series name - so let's check the text so I can figure out what we need to do. :) Thanks! Annie 18:42, 9 March 2022 (EST)

Wow! I'd expected to be able to do a quick skim and answer this question but the character is constantly referred to only as Farrell with no first name mentioned. I'd have to reread this to definitively answer since there's no ebook edition to do an electronic search within. That said, I found multiple reviews on Goodreads sic where he is referred to as Joe Farrell. Phil 08:20, 10 March 2022 (EST)
No worries, I found those - just wanted to see if there is something easily foundable in the book. If not, then we are good - I will operate based on what I have. Thanks for checking! Annie 11:04, 10 March 2022 (EST)

Amazon dates

Hi! I saw yesterday that you set the date for a 1976 anthology to 1976-01-01, basing it on Amazon as 'exact date' (I seem to remember that it was one edited by Martin H. Greenberg?). This is an erroneous date: Amazon is known to have dates from the pre-2010s set to the standard XXXX-01-01, when there's only the year known (or to make up or use erroneous date information). And if one thinks of it, the first of January is one of the most unlikely days of publishing (at least it was in 1976). (Amazon also sets a date of a given month to the first of that month, regardless if that is the actual day of publication: quite often this was found to be a Sunday, for example).

Just wanted to pass on this information. Thanks, Christian Stonecreek 09:09, 19 March 2022 (EDT)

Divergent Series

Phil, you added missing excerpts to some of your verified publication. I added the series and set the juvenile flag as needed. These edits will not show on your ' My Changed Primary Verifications' report, but I wanted you to be aware of them. If you have questions, ask. I only noticed them because I was looking at Veronica Roth for something else. John Scifibones 12:17, 3 April 2022 (EDT)

The Khyber Connection

Phil, I'm holding this submission. You are adding the count of unnumbered pages, but you are not adding any content? From the help, 'There is no need to record these unnumbered pages if they contain no content that needs to be recorded.' John Scifibones 22:05, 30 April 2022 (EDT)

Thanks for catching that. I do know better than to do that. I have cancelled the submission and resubmitted the edit without changing the page count. BTW, I couldn't follow the submission link you provided above. I get this error when I click on it: "Moderator privileges are required for this option". Phil 06:29, 1 May 2022 (EDT)
Aprroved, sorry about the link. John Scifibones 07:22, 1 May 2022 (EDT)

The Siege & The Rescue

Phil, I mistakenly changed the publication dates to unknown for these 4th printings. I reinstated the year for each per your publication notes. The Siege needed to be changed anyway, you kept the date when cloning the first printing. Sorry to cause the alerts. Guess that means it's time to go to bed. John Scifibones 22:33, 1 May 2022 (EDT)

That Hideous Strength

Hi Phil. I think you forgot to adjust the date[20] to 1966.23:12, 27 May 2022 (EDT)

Sure did. Corrected and submitted. Phil 07:29, 28 May 2022 (EDT)

Twice Upon a Time

Phil, this edit incorrectly changed the page count. Please review the second bullet point under Pages in the help section and submit an edit to restore the correct count. Thanks John Scifibones 07:56, 28 May 2022 (EDT)

Thanks for catching this. Restoration change submitted. I missed seeing the single page with a Roman numeral on it when I did the editing. Phil 08:13, 28 May 2022 (EDT)
No worries, the correction is approved. John Scifibones 08:16, 28 May 2022 (EDT)

Boundary Shock Quarterly

Phil, since you are a PV for a couple issues of Boundary Shock Quarterly I wanted to let you know I am doing a little 'housekeeping' on the series. I'm primarily moving the issue number and theme from the title to the notes. I highlight all changes in the note to moderator to make it easier to follow. John Scifibones 16:08, 14 July 2022 (EDT)

Thanks for the heads-up. Phil 18:12, 14 July 2022 (EDT)

Foreward vs Foreword

Can you please double check the non-standard spelling of foreword in the following records?

If these are database typos, please correct. If the publication used this spelling, please add a title note stating the spelling is per the publication. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:17, 9 August 2022 (EDT)

All my typos. Edits submitted. Phil 09:55, 9 August 2022 (EDT)

Faerie Tale

Phil, this submission is trying to link to the image you asked to have deleted. John Scifibones 14:04, 12 August 2022 (EDT)

Drat! I must have confused which upload was bad. I have re-uploaded this cover. I'll see if I can locate which cover upload was actually bad. Sorry for the extra work. Phil 17:16, 12 August 2022 (EDT)
No worries, approved. John Scifibones 14:10, 13 August 2022 (EDT)

Call to Quarters

Please double check the ISBN here. I think it is for the tp, not the ebookThanks John Scifibones 11:02, 18 August 2022 (EDT)

You're right. Edit submitted. A question that just occurred to me: Should I be creating the records for the other publications of the same title if they are listed on Amazon even though I don't/won't have them? I've been desperately trying to get though verifying/updating as much of my collection in the ISFDB as I can before it has to be packed away for my impending move and may have missed doing an expected thing. Phil 11:23, 18 August 2022 (EDT)
Approved. Absolutely, add records for any of the missing publications. Since you will not be providing a PV, additional notes are often necessary. For example. "Contents from Look inside" (or another source), when adding content titles to an unverified publication. John Scifibones 11:46, 18 August 2022 (EDT)

Changed Primary Verifications

I've had a number of Changed Primary Verifications, 82 just this year, and most of them are just External ID, so that was fine. The latest one, Chess With A Dragon, I saw it was ContentTitle, External ID, and Note, and decided to see what the changes were. When I look at the Edit History, it looks like nothing was changed, even though those three field were highlighted. Can you tell me why that is, please? Thanks. AndonSage 14:06, 19 August 2022 (EDT)

A quick note to assist here: it is a quirk of the system: the "History" was never designed to be a history - it is a side effect of how we do submissions. But as it can be useful in some cases, it had been linked and added to assist. As a result, once approved, you see which fields are changed but you cannot see the old value(s) - the new value is now showing where the old value used to be. This is why some moderators ask people to write better and more complete moderator notes and not just list the list of fields they are changing (so PVs can figure out what happened - the system has the list of fields, what it does not have are the details). You can also look at older edits on the same record - if the same field was changed earlier in one of them, then you can see the old value there (as a "new value"). Hope that helps. Annie 14:36, 19 August 2022 (EDT)
I can't add to what Annie stated. For "Chess with a Dragon" for example, I only added the WorldCat ID. Over the last months and several hundred edits, I've been adding more explicit info to the moderator notes to try to give a better look into the change history. See this submission as an example (though it's not one for something where you are a PV). Phil 15:34, 19 August 2022 (EDT)
Thanks for the response :) AndonSage 13:12, 20 August 2022 (EDT)

Call to Quarters

For Call to Quarters, you don't need this statement "Amazon shows the publisher as CreateSpace" (a self-publisher). You show the publisher as it is on the title page, and you state where it came from. That's sufficient. John Scifibones 16:54, 19 August 2022 (EDT)

Submitted edit to remove it. Thanks! Phil 17:33, 19 August 2022 (EDT)
Approved. thanks, John Scifibones 17:36, 19 August 2022 (EDT)

Squadron Alert

I approved this submission, but have a question. I see a note about Roman Numerals (not yours), but I don't see any Roman Numerals in the Pages field. What's up? John Scifibones 16:05, 22 August 2022 (EDT)

I probably should have asked myself. The absolute count of pages is 316. Pages 1-4 are unnumbered. There are Roman numerals printed on pages v-vii. The next printed page number is 11 and the last printed page number is 316. There is a map on unnumbered page 9/ix. Does that mean the page count should be ix+305 then? The LCCN and WorldCat records are no help since they both show a count of 316. BTW, the same situation exits here in this record and here in this record. Phil 16:36, 22 August 2022 (EDT)
The Pages field should be vii+316 (Highest printed Roman numeral plus the last page of the book). We always include the Roman numerals, even if there are no indexed titles. The page numbers of the content titles are correct. John Scifibones 17:15, 22 August 2022 (EDT)
Edits submitted for all three Roland Green pubs that have this problem. Phil 06:32, 23 August 2022 (EDT)
Approved, John Scifibones 08:54, 23 August 2022 (EDT)


Careful when moving LCCNs around. Take for example this one. It is a valid LCCN (and that is why we used a template for it) but it belongs to the Arbor House edition, not to the Tor one. So we do not add it to the Tor edition as an external ID. Feel free to edit again and note that it is on the copyright page but belongs to a different edition. Verifying it with lookup is not just about looking if it connects, we also need to make sure the edition and the rest of the details match. Let me know if you have any questions. Annie (talk) 18:09, 15 September 2022 (EDT)

Wow! I blew that one. I usually do check but obviously missed in this case. Corrected update submitted. Phil (talk) 21:52, 15 September 2022 (EDT)
That's part of why we have the two sets of eyes system. I approved quite a lot of updates from you after this one which were ok so I think you were just distracted or something :) Annie (talk) 21:57, 15 September 2022 (EDT)

Lammas Night

Phil, I approved your three edits to this publication and its associated title records. When there is only one publication, you can edit the title record, the coverart title record and the publication with one submission. Every little bit that helps keep the size of the submission queue down is appreciated. John Scifibones 19:22, 17 September 2022 (EDT)

979 ISBNs

When you see an ISBN starting with 979 and you use Amazon as a source, always add the ASIN as well. All links to Amazon on the site use ISBN10 (they actually use ASINs because this is how Amazon had always prefered it but for 978-starting ISBNs of paper books, the ASIN is ISBN10). So for 979 ones, the links won't work. So we add ASINs - as we do with any ebook or audible book. If you are adding a lot of new US books, the scenario will become more and more likely to happen - the agency selling ISBNs to small presses and independent authors in USA ran out of 978 ISBNs some time last year so unless someone already had the ISBN, all new ones will be coming as 979s. I fixed it here. :) Annie (talk) 18:45, 27 September 2022 (EDT)

Thanks. Should I always add the ASIN for paper books where the source is Amazon even if they have a 978 prefix? Phil (talk) 22:10, 27 September 2022 (EDT)
No. Only when the ASIN starts with a B - if it is numerical, it is ISBN10 and we do not use the field for that. Annie (talk) 23:29, 27 September 2022 (EDT)

Audible books

When adding an Audible book, we want the list price, not the price Amazon would sell it to you for. In it is hiding under "Buy with 1-click" (if you have that enabled) or somewhere in the general vicinity of the top right corner of the book description usually (or under the cover on mobile) - when you select that radio box, under it there is a "List Price: $24.95" for example. You can also check the list price on (it is called "Regular price" there). I fixed it here and added the Audible ASIN while I was at it. Annie (talk) 18:51, 27 September 2022 (EDT) PS: And we have a Narrator template. Annie (talk) 20:05, 27 September 2022 (EDT)

OK. Will do. Since I have an Audible account, the 1-click price is never the list price for me. I've been trying to get the list price by using a different browser that is not signed-in to Amazon but at least in this case I must have forgotten to search for the title instead of copying the URL from the signed-in account. It looks like I should always just to go to the Audible site to get both the price and the Audible-ASIN. I didn't know about the Narrator template but I'll switch to using it. Phil (talk) 22:22, 27 September 2022 (EDT)
I did not say to use the 1-click price itself. I said (probably not very clearly) to click on its radio box and look UNDER it - on the next like in Amazon :) I have an Audible account as well - the List price is always hiding under the 1-click one. Hope that helps. Annie (talk) 23:28, 27 September 2022 (EDT)

A King of Masks and Magic

Phil, I'm holding this submission as it would duplicate an existing pub. You just need to import the cover art title. John Scifibones 14:31, 8 October 2022 (EDT)

I approved your clone submission creating the Audio CD version. You can pick up the length and narrator from the digital audio download above. Tantor would not create a different recording for each format. John Scifibones 14:40, 8 October 2022 (EDT)

Oops! Thanks for catching it. I submitted the import of the cover art here and cancelled the held submission.
For the CDs, I assume that I should note that the length and narrator are from the digital audio edition? Phil (talk) 22:13, 8 October 2022 (EDT)
Up to you, but I don't think it's necessary. John Scifibones 08:06, 9 October 2022 (EDT)

Rules of Redemption

Occasionally the Audible ASIN is an ISBN 10 like this one. You enter it in the ISBN field, converting to ISBN 13 when neccessary. John Scifibones 15:17, 8 October 2022 (EDT)

I wasn't aware that the Audible IDs that don't start with B are ISBNs but they didn't look like Audible-ASINs which is why I didn't include them as Audible-ASINs. I'll take that into account in the future. Phil (talk) 22:15, 8 October 2022 (EDT)
Just a small clarifying note - unlike paper books ASINs, we always record the Audible ASIN in the Audible ASIN field as well so the link to can be created (unlike the Amazon links, we don’t have the Audibles on the left menu). So for Audible ASINs which are numeric, they get recorded in their own field and also converters to ISBN13 to go into the isbn field as John explained above. Hope this makes sense. :) Annie (talk) 00:26, 9 October 2022 (EDT)

Dating excerpts

Hi, I have three submissions of yours on hold [21], [22], [23], as I noticed that you dated excerpts to the date when the source novel was first published (do I have that correctly understood?) However, that is not correct. The excerpt must be dated to the date of first appearance of the excerpt itself, not of the parent novel. You may want to double-check other edits you've made in the same vein that may have been inadvertently approved, and/or you may want to start a discussion . Regards, MagicUnk (talk) 11:15, 8 December 2022 (EST)

I used those dates for the excerpts because the copyright statements for them on the copyright page had those dates in them. I didn't even look at the first pub dates for their related full works. The ones you put on hold are title removes for the ones that don't apply to the specific publications. Phil (talk) 13:31, 8 December 2022 (EST)
Just chiming in to add the help page which governs these dates: here: "Excerpts. Use the date when an excerpt was first published in that form, not the date when the original text it is taken from was published.". The copyright date is never used to date a text in our DB - we look at the publications they appear in, not at whatever dates the copyright shows. Annie (talk) 13:35, 8 December 2022 (EST)
This is the first time I ever remember seeing a copyright date specifically stated for an excerpt but I'll make sure to be wary in the future. The problem for these three cases is that the existing excerpts are only dated as unknown so I'm not sure which ones to keep. Phil (talk) 15:12, 8 December 2022 (EST)
Keep the earliest date matching a publication date where the excerpt is in or leave it as 0000-00-00 if all the publications it is in are later printings with no dates. If it is later found in a dated book, someone will adjust it based on that. I also like adding the first and last sentence of an excerpt (and any other known information - "Chapter one" or whatever else is visible) to its notes to facilitate the recognition of repeated excerpts. See this one or this one for an example (always easier to show than to explain) :) Annie (talk) 15:22, 8 December 2022 (EST)
This submission is still correct since it is just a removal [24]. Please approve it as is. Phil (talk) 17:23, 8 December 2022 (EST)
MagicUnk is in Europe and probably off for the day already and noone can touch things he has on hold I am afraid -- I can assist with the help pages and advice but I cannot touch the submission. :) Annie (talk) 18:14, 8 December 2022 (EST)
I've approved held submissions so you can go in and adjust the excerpt dates. Regards, MagicUnk (talk) 08:21, 9 December 2022 (EST)

A New Clan

Phil, I'm required to cancel this submission since the publication date is more than 90 days out. Ping me when we are inside 90 days and I will unreject and approve the submission. Thanks, John Scifibones 16:33, 14 December 2022 (EST)

OK. I saw the warning but wasn't sure what to do. In the future, I'll watch the date more closely. Phil (talk) 17:27, 14 December 2022 (EST)
Just as a data point: I rarely add anything more than 60-70 days out - even though 90 days are permitted and it will be approved, things tend to change a bit more that far out (and sometimes sources just do not update on time if there are delays and changes). The publishers had somewhat stabilized since the madness of the start of the pandemic and the schedules are a lot more stable but they still wobble more than they used to pre-2020 and updates are a bit slower when there are date changes so books added 3 months out often need an update as the dates get closer (the reason I have somewhat of a visibility on that is because I had been adding a big chunk of our pre-release editions in the last few years). It also depends on the publisher: Baen had been mostly stable lately but even they get some wobbles (interestingly enough, their wobbles tend to be towards releasing earlier, not later). If you insist on adding closer to the 90 days mark, verify the date on the publisher site, not just on Amazon - some of the Amazon records are added during the planning of the year and never updated until they are closer to the date - within 2-2.5 months for example. :) Annie (talk) 17:53, 14 December 2022 (EST)

The Fifth Season & The Obelisk Gate

Please review the following two submissions, The Fifth Season and The Obelisk Gate. The modified titles were removed by submissions processed on 2022-12-09, one day after these were submitted. I'll hold the submissions pending your review. Thanks, John Scifibones 18:03, 14 December 2022 (EST)

Looks like I created my own problem. I've cancelled these updates. Phil (talk) 07:55, 15 December 2022 (EST)

Inherit the Stars

Please check the price here. Thanks, John Scifibones 18:30, 14 December 2022 (EST)

Oops! Correction submitted. Phil (talk) 22:06, 14 December 2022 (EST)
approved. John Scifibones 07:42, 15 December 2022 (EST)

T. Carlin; Cover artist and interior artist have different first names; intentional or mistake? --Username (talk) 19:36, 15 December 2022 (EST)

My mistake - wrong cover artist. I submitted an update that corrected the cover artist to be Damoro Design along with enhancing the cover art note. Phil (talk) 22:25, 15 December 2022 (EST)

The Silent Warrior

Cover art for this is not Chris Achilleos. It's Alan M. Clarke. See here --Mavmaramis (talk) 06:20, 17 December 2022 (EST)

OK. Go ahead and make the changes to correct it. I just PV'ed it but didn't add the note or artist. Phil (talk) 07:28, 17 December 2022 (EST)
● I have added the correct credit to the artist, the web page that the artwork can be found on, and on the artworks’ page, the title of the work. MLB (talk) 15:22, 17 December 2022 (EST)

Anne Renwick

Re: Anne Renwick. Would you mind checking all the excerpts to see which can be merged? I'm asking you since you own all the necessary publications. Thanks, John Scifibones 11:46, 21 December 2022 (EST)

Will do. Some of them will resolve when I remove them from the audiobook and audio CD editions so it may take a few days. Phil (talk) 14:11, 21 December 2022 (EST)
Thanks, John Scifibones 14:52, 21 December 2022 (EST)

Icebreaker (Patreon edition)

Consider creating a publication record rather than adding this information to the title record. I'm not insisting nor am I holding the submission. John Scifibones 17:41, 21 December 2022 (EST)

I'm willing to but I'm following the guidance given to me here back in 2021. In fact, I'd like to do it because I also have saved the associated covers so they could be uploaded later and this would let me upload those as well. As far as I know, at this point it's only 30 Glynn Stewart titles that would be impacted. Phil (talk) 18:21, 21 December 2022 (EST)
How different are the covers and the books from the mass market edition? Annie (talk) 18:37, 21 December 2022 (EST)
I approved your submission. Thanks for the heads-up, I didn't notice that discussion last year. Not treating them as separate publications doesn't make sense to me, but I'll bow to the conventional wisdom. Hold on to your covers, maybe this will come up again. John Scifibones 18:42, 21 December 2022 (EST)
The covers are the same as the ebook covers but have PATREON EDITION prominently printed on them. The title pages also have PATREON EDITION printed on them. Phil (talk) 20:40, 21 December 2022 (EST)
Let's wait out the holidays and we probably should start the discussion again. The Patreon editions are not eArcs and that conversation went in that direction very quickly. I am not sure the difference was even noticed later on... On one hand, we don't enter every single "version" of an ebook unless there is a difference enough (or we will have hundreds of versions per ebook record because some authors upload new files constantly). Pn the other, determining what difference matters is tricky - a new cover or a new excerpt always qualify (as we record data for those); Patreon - I am not sure. So we probably should try to have this discussion again and see if it can stay on topic. Annie (talk) 23:10, 21 December 2022 (EST)
Now that we're well past the holidays, how do we restart the discussion? Glynn Stewart just published another Patreon Edition for a new title. Phil (talk) 10:22, 27 January 2023 (EST)

The Ian Douglas variants

What were you trying to do with those? The canonical name for that author is William H. Keith, Jr. so the variants under the Ian Douglas name can only exist if there is a book containing them. If I approved them, they could be deleted overnight when the report finds them. So instead of varianting first, add the book which contains them and then variant them up to the correct canonical title. Let me know if you have any questions. Annie (talk) 11:55, 22 December 2022 (EST)

This is messy. Titles are the same but the author is Ian Douglas instead of William H. Keith. The ebook title pages show "Originally published under the name William H. Keith". Note no "Jr." I expect that should be a note, correct? Do I still create new and variant to the title by "William H. Keith, Jr."? Phil (talk) 14:35, 22 December 2022 (EST)
Yes. The best way to handle that cause is to add the books with the name Ian Douglas and then variant post-approval. The lack if the Jr. in the "originally published" statement is kinda irrelevant unless you can track a book with the name without the Jr. - in which case there will be yet another variant. The parent title will always be using William H. Keith, Jr. even if he never published the story under that name because this is the canonical name.
I can unreject and approve the variants if you want and if you plan to add the books today - but if they are still around overnight, they may get deleted (if someone works the orphaned titles report). Let me know how you want to proceed. Annie (talk) 14:49, 22 December 2022 (EST)

GraphicAudio audio books

Just a quick note - these are usually dramatizations and not readings. Which makes them ineligible under the current rules - they do read most of the narration but they do edit the dialogs. We won't record a performance of Hamlet either - straight readings are eligible, dramatizations are out. So when you see this publisher, check on their site what exactly they did produce this time around). Annie (talk) 13:48, 22 December 2022 (EST)

I see. Will watch out for this in the future. Phil (talk) 14:37, 22 December 2022 (EST)

Missing prices

Missing information for audio CD's and audio MP3 CD's published by Audible Studios on Brilliance Audio can be found here. I added the missing prices for all the ones I reviewed yesterday. Looks like there are more in the queue. John Scifibones 17:08, 23 December 2022 (EST)

Nice source! Thanks! I'll fix the other submissions once they are approved. Phil (talk) 10:37, 24 December 2022 (EST)
All approved. John Scifibones 11:11, 24 December 2022 (EST)

Lost Dreams

Phil, I approved this submission before I realized it created a duplicate publication. Here is the existing publication. I have deleted your publication. Just add your notes and primary verification to the existing publication. Notice Annie set it up as a serial installment of the novel Last Stand. Let me know if you this isn't clear. John Scifibones 18:30, 15 January 2023 (EST)


Phil, Regarding Bitten. What's up with some of these audiobooks? Two sets of audio cassettes on the same day (2001-10-01)? Two sets of audio CDs on the same day (2010-07-27)? Seems odd, did you do any further digging? John Scifibones 20:46, 19 January 2023 (EST)

In the case of the cassettes, one is a regular edition and the other is a Library edition. I'll add that to the notes of the Library edition. As to the audio CDs, they have different ISBNs and there are separate WorldCat entries for them. Phil (talk) 22:25, 19 January 2023 (EST)
Thanks, John Scifibones 16:06, 20 January 2023 (EST)
Pretty standard with US audiobooks due to how licensing works (or something along these line...) :) Annie (talk) 18:13, 20 January 2023 (EST)

All the Weyrs of Pern

How much confidence do you have in this price? John Scifibones 13:56, 3 February 2023 (EST)

Pretty strong given that it's a library edition. It's not outside the value range several other library audio CD editions have. Of course I could be wrong... Phil (talk) 15:23, 3 February 2023 (EST)
Thanks, I don't know why it jumped out at me. John Scifibones 16:00, 3 February 2023 (EST)

The Chronicles of Pern: First Fall

I removed Jan 1 from the date for The Chronicles of Pern: First Fall and several other pubs. On pubs which predate Amazon, the date is unreliable. There's no telling where they get them from, Jan 1st is their default month and day. For your clones, I used WorldCat to confirm the year. John Scifibones 14:50, 3 February 2023 (EST)

Good to know. I'll check WorldCat for those who predate 1998 in the future. Phil (talk) 15:28, 3 February 2023 (EST)

The Wizard of Karres

This submission appears to create a duplicate. What am I missing? John Scifibones 14:35, 5 February 2023 (EST)

My bad. It looks like I accidently submitted it twice. Phil (talk) 19:05, 5 February 2023 (EST)
It also looks like this record is a duplicate pub and should be deleted. Phil (talk) 21:59, 5 February 2023 (EST)
I agree, go ahead. John Scifibones 09:02, 6 February 2023 (EST)

Rides a Dread Legion

I made minor changes to contents of Rides a Dread Legion if you have no objection. Page number for first page of novel Added entry for map on bep Note re Acknowledgments on unnumbered roman numeral page. Thanks. gzuckier (talk) 00:53, 10 February 2023 (EST)

Sounds fine. Go ahead. Phil (talk) 06:42, 10 February 2023 (EST)

Charles de Lint / Moonheart: A Romance

Posted on the Talk pages of active PVs GlennMcG, Philfreund.
I'm looking at my copy of Moonheart: A Romance and the pub record. This doesn't seem to be set up correctly. It should be unmerged, assigned to a title record of "Moonheart: A Romance" and this should be varianted to "Moonheart". Actually, there is a case for making "Moonheart: A Romance" the canonical title as it's the first publication. However, as there is only 1 pub titled "Moonheart: A Romance" and 16 pubs titled "Moonheart", I don't feel strongly about which is the canonical title. Mind you, I would bet that some of the other pubs also have "A Romance" on the title page, particularly the Ace pb reprints. What are your thoughts? Teallach (talk) 18:49, 13 February 2023 (EST)

You are probably right that this should be the canonical title and the others unmerged into a variant. I've noticed a few other titles that seem to have the same situation. I also agree that the other Ace printings are likely listed incorrectly without "A Romance". It might be interesting to ask the PV of the 1985 second printing to recheck his copy. I just took a quick look at the 2013 Smashwords edition and it has "A Romance" on the title page so the PV there missed it. The audiobook and the CDs definitely do not have "A Romance" associated with them. I'd be fine with you doing the unmerge/variant if you would like to. Phil (talk) 22:27, 13 February 2023 (EST)
I will ask AliHarlow about the Ace pb 2nd print. I also have the UK Pan tp which I have recently PVd and that does not have "A Romance" on the title page. Like you, I have also come across other titles that have this problem. Based on your and GlennMcG's replies, I will do the varianting but first I will stick a post on the Moderator Noticeboard to ask which should be the canonical title as it's rather subjective. Teallach (talk) 18:42, 14 February 2023 (EST)

The Diamond Conspiracy

Phil, please find the ASIN for this one. Thanks, John Scifibones 18:43, 17 February 2023 (EST)

Sorry. That one slipped past me. Cancelled and resubmitted with the ASIN here. Phil (talk) 22:32, 17 February 2023 (EST)

Ware Hawk

Regarding this. Publisher is "An Argo Book / Margaret K. McElderry / Atheneum.Books" as it states "A Margaret K. McElderry Book" on title page and front flap of dustwrapper and "An Argo Book" on copyright page. --Mavmaramis (talk) 00:20, 21 February 2023 (EST)

Hmmm. There are only 4 pubs using the publisher "An Argo Book / Margaret K. McElderry / Atheneum.Books". I'm guessing that it should be publisher "An Argo Book / Atheneum" with the Publication Series being "A Margaret K. McElderry Book". What does Chavey say since he is the original PV? Phil (talk) 18:26, 21 February 2023 (EST)
His books are in storage so I did not message him. I checked the details from the copy I recently acquired. My copy has "A Margaret K. McElderry Book" on title page and front flap of dustwrapper as well as on copyright page underneath this is "An Argo Book" (Argo logo on spine) - hence why I wanted to check if your copy had the same informaton. "An Argo Book / Margaret K. McElderry / Atheneum Books" is one of the publishers listed under "Atheneum"- I'll open a discussion on the Moderator page. --Mavmaramis (talk) 13:41, 23 February 2023 (EST)
My copy matches yours but also has the Argo logo block on the title page. Phil (talk) 15:40, 23 February 2023 (EST)

Publisher check: Keeper of Enchanted Rooms

Do you still have access to your verified Keeper of Enchanted Rooms? The copy I have shows 47North as the publisher - which is a bit more logical than Brilliance Audio (they did all the audio versions). Any objections to me fixing the publisher? Thanks! Annie (talk) 22:44, 24 February 2023 (EST)

Please change it to 47North. I entered it wrong. Phil (talk) 06:35, 25 February 2023 (EST)
Done. I’ll be verifying it when I get to that book. :) Annie (talk) 23:37, 27 February 2023 (EST)

Peace Talks

I have put your submission on hold as I notice the record you've added has the same ISBN and same Audible-ASIN as this one (apart from the publisher and price, that is). Do you know what's going here? Shouldn't these be the same publication? MagicUnk (talk) 03:40, 27 February 2023 (EST)

Looks like this was a simultaneous release in the US and UK. Since the hardcover was the US release, I think the US was the primary release site so I should change the exisiting record values to the values in the submission for the cover, publisher, and price as well as adding notes for the UK price and publisher. I'll cancel the submission after I submit that edit. Does that seem right? Phil (talk) 07:02, 27 February 2023 (EST)
To be honest, I'm at a loss as to what's going on here. I can find references to both versions on, (with two different prices...) and Goodreads only. has the Hachette Audio UK version. Maybe ask some other moderators who are more familiar with audiobooks for advice? MagicUnk (talk) 06:58, 28 February 2023 (EST)
Figured it out. See discussion here. Phil (talk) 15:23, 1 March 2023 (EST)
What a mess ... :-) Thanks for digging into this. Now approved. Regards, MagicUnk (talk) 04:46, 2 March 2023 (EST)

Roman Holiday

Hello Phil,

A little trick with Audible books like this one. A list price of $2.17 tells you that this is not priced for the US market but is a conversion (and this exact value is a £1.99 conversion for an Audible). So head to and find the same audiobook (search by title and author - unlike ebooks, it will have a separate ASIN so we need to record both but it will give you a list price). In this case, as Jodi Taylor's books are published first in UK, that also makes sense. I updated this one. :) Annie (talk) 14:41, 2 March 2023 (EST)

Got it. I know to do that with regular books/ebooks and should have realized it applied to the audiobooks as well. The list prices for audiobooks are so scattered and seemingly random that it just didn't catch my eye. Phil (talk) 15:45, 2 March 2023 (EST)
You get used to them - there are a few publishers that use weird prices in Audible even when they are US editions (for some of them, hitting their publisher page may actually give you a real list price - sometimes I remember to do that, sometimes I just record the Amazon/Audible list price and as we have notes on the sources, they are technically correct). But $2.17 had stayed with me both from ebooks and from audiobooks as it is usually the £1.99 across the pond. So I go check and figured I should stop by and share. :) Annie (talk) 16:02, 2 March 2023 (EST)

Anomalous cover for ebooks

Looking at these two titles, [25] and [26]), you'll notice that the publication date of the ebooks you've recently added are identical to the tp edition, yet the cover of said recently added ebooks is completely different (corresponds, in fact, with a recent re-issue). Look at the Goodreads editions for a more accurate edition history. For example, you'll notice that the 2020 Kindle edition of Raven's Course has a different cover compared to your addition. In fact, there's a second, 2022 Goodreads record with the blue cover, with a publication date of 2022-01-00. The better course of action if you come across such an 'Amazon anomaly' (Amazon tends to update the cover art with a re-issue, but keeps the first publication date), is to check Goodreads, and go with that. In other words, better to update the cover of your two ebook additions with the Goodreads one. Thanks, MagicUnk (talk) 15:44, 3 March 2023 (EST)

Same for The Last Wish; comparing the 2015 audio editions you entered, looks suspiciously like cover was updated with the 2022 re-issue. MagicUnk (talk) 15:56, 3 March 2023 (EST)

Submissions for all three covers are submitted (plus the Goodreads ID was added). I didn't realize that Goodreads also kept the info for the audio editions. Thanks! Phil (talk) 17:21, 3 March 2023 (EST)

Japanese Crisis Title; While adding links to both editions of Crisis I noticed this Japanese title was missing the mark over the letter so I cut-and-pasted the 1 instance of the correct title on ISFDB from some completely unrelated work. There are other questions like whether cover artist from original should be imported to reprint as a co-artist because most of the art is the same, which page count is correct since the last page, "afterword", has no page number, how date of reprint was derived since no 2004 date is on the copyright page (maybe the last page with "Coming August 2004") and whether a note should be entered saying where date came from, whether all stories are original and should have the month (02) added to them, etc. Maybe someone will look into these things if they want to. --Username (talk) 19:59, 17 March 2023 (EDT)

Thanks but I can't even look into this until my paperbacks are out of storage which will be at least another 6 months. Phil (talk) 22:09, 17 March 2023 (EDT)
Yeah, I know, you and a whole lot of other people who say the same thing on here. Maybe someone who owns a copy or is in some way familiar with these books will read this and be able to help fix stuff or add new stuff. The unnumbered last page is minor because there's thousands on here where they were either added to the page count with no note, added with a note saying they're unnumbered (I've done very many of those), added to page count in brackets, not added at all, etc., just however the individual editor felt like doing it. Date of reprint edition is minor because there's thousands of books where an editor added a date not in the book without saying in any way where they got it from. Months added to stories is minor because there's thousands of stories which never got the book's month added to them. The only thing that I can see being of interest is that cover art, because while different artists are on the copyright page in each edition the reprint cover art uses the same art from the original with some new bits underneath, so the original artist should definitely be a co-artist in the reprint. --Username (talk) 22:31, 17 March 2023 (EDT)

The River's Gift

I'm holding this submission. A novel, really? I suggest doing a little research and fixing the existing title first. Then create the ebook. John Scifibones 18:37, 20 March 2023 (EDT)

Wow. Did I blow this or what? So do I just change the existing title into a Shortfiction novella, then create a new empty Chapbook with no pub detail, then import the novella into the Chapbook? Any other steps before creating the ebook? I'll also cancel and redo this submission as part of the fix. Phil (talk) 22:34, 20 March 2023 (EDT)
Edit the current book we have, change the pub type to chapbook, the novel title to a short fiction and add a chapbook. That’s all that is needed when there is a single publication with the title. Then you can clone from the result post approval.
If there were more publications, you change the novel to a story. Once approved, edit every publication to change its pub type and to add a chapbook. Then you merge the resulting chapbooks (you cannot import a chapbook while the pub type is a novel and you won’t be able to make these chapbooks until the novel is out and cannot save a chapbook pub without a chapbook title - thus the need for a merge in these cases). Annie (talk) 02:12, 21 March 2023 (EDT)
Submitted this. Hope it is correct. Phil (talk) 07:12, 21 March 2023 (EDT)
Approved. Now you can clone the corrected publication to create the ebook. Don't forget to cancel the original submission. Thanks, John Scifibones 08:03, 21 March 2023 (EDT)
Original cancelled. New clone submission here Phil (talk) 08:18, 21 March 2023 (EDT)
I obtained a copy of the hc to verify the length. My count is approximately 19,600, primarily because there are no illustrations or chapter divisions. Thought you might be interested. John Scifibones 11:41, 25 March 2023 (EDT)

More Than Honor audio MP3 CD

Looks like Amazon has the wrong date for this one. Brilliance publishing says the date is 5-21-2013 for 978-1-4915-7626-7 MP3-CD. I'm guessing you saw this as you have the correct $9.99 price which is not what Amazon shows. John Scifibones 15:37, 25 March 2023 (EDT)

Your submission is absolutely correct. I'm not sure what I was looking at. It's approved now. Sorry. John Scifibones 07:06, 14 April 2023 (EDT)

Thieves' World Collection Volume Two

In this submission, you stated you were removing the essays but didn't stay why. You aren't a PV of the ebook, so how do you know the essays aren't in it? Please clarify this. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:34, 28 April 2023 (EDT)

I used the Amazon Look Inside feature and the essays aren't there. Phil (talk) 13:54, 28 April 2023 (EDT)
Okay, thanks! Please include information like that in your future moderator notes. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:48, 28 April 2023 (EDT)

Murder of Crows

In this submission, you stated you were removing the essay but didn't stay why. You aren't a PV of the audiobook, so how do you know the essay isn't in it? Please clarify this. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:39, 28 April 2023 (EDT)

True, but how likely is it that an audiobook includes a Glossary? The Glossary essay only showed up because I cloned. If I had simply done a new pub, I wouldn't have known to include it so there wouldn't be a question. If it's actually there, a PV can add it. If you want to reject this submission, I understand. :) Phil (talk) 14:10, 28 April 2023 (EDT)
I've had audiobooks that included them, so that's why I asked. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:47, 28 April 2023 (EDT)
One little trick I use - when you clone like that, set the page numbers of the materials you will be removing to "del" or "remove" or "--" or something like that in the clone -- you cannot remove them on the clone directly but you can set page numbers. That way it will be clear that they are supposed to be out once approved (a moderator may decide to help you and remove them on approval or just let you do the follow up but it reduces the confusion usually). Plus even if you forget to follow up, someone may find them and clear them up. Annie (talk) 14:32, 28 April 2023 (EDT)

Gaiman and Doran's Chivalry

Hi, I recently added this year's Locus Award finalists, of which this title was one, which you've PVed, and it it looks like you added other pubs for as well.

I had an exchange with Ahasuerus yesterday about how the site renders the award for art titles, and he mentioned that he didn't think this graphic novel was correctly entered. I'm not familiar with the intricacies of that type of title/pub, and I definitely don't want to go messing around with someone else's PV, so I'll have to refer you to his comments. Thanks. ErsatzCulture (talk) 08:15, 14 May 2023 (EDT)

On reflection, I think I should have had both Gaiman and Doran as the authors. I've added a note to your discussion with Ahasuerus to make sure I know how to make the change correctly. Phil (talk) 08:42, 14 May 2023 (EDT)

New Frontiers: A Collection of Tales About the Past, the Present, and the Future

Hi Phil, It would have been worth the effort to add pipes to this publication, correcting the sort order before cloning it four times. Now you need to edit all five publication records. Also, run the duplicate checker, on any one of the pubs, and merge or disambiguate as necessary. P.S. I know you didn't create the duplicates, just want you do get used to checking those things since I will be supporting your application for self-approver. John Scifibones 17:50, 30 May 2023 (EDT)

Well drat! I'll do that but I'm going to wait a bit to see if my self-approver request goes through. I already have a lot of submissions in the queue so no point in making it longer if I can hold off a bit to get better throughput. :) Phil (talk) 18:27, 30 May 2023 (EDT)
Realized that waiting was a bad idea. Submitted 5 resequencings and 4 merges. Phil (talk) 07:17, 1 June 2023 (EDT)

Glynn Stewart excerpts

For your to do list. Remember to add descriptions in the post merge title records. This will help us determine if future appearances should be merged or disambiguated. John Scifibones 18:59, 30 May 2023 (EDT)

Yep. I have to compare the instances of each of the titles to see if they are unique. I'm suspecting there's a lot of duplication. I assume I should also move them under the appropriate series as well. Phil (talk) 21:52, 30 May 2023 (EDT)
Yes, add the appropriate series. John Scifibones 08:41, 31 May 2023 (EDT)

Knighthood of the Dragon

What is the source of the price here? I see $6.99 in Amazon. If it comes from elsewhere (Kobo USA (great source for ISBNs for ebooks and audiobooks - just make sure it is not a publisher which uses different ISBNs for kindle vs ePub books), the publisher site or something else), we need a note on the source. Annie (talk) 13:07, 31 May 2023 (EDT)

My bad. It looks like I forgot to change the price from the clone source. Fix submitted. Phil (talk) 13:49, 31 May 2023 (EDT)

Free to Good Home

A small trick: when you clone line here and the book you are cloning from is a singleton (so each story is in only one book), you can do EditPub before the clone, change all dates in the single EditPub (including the cover if needed). Then you do not need to update each title one by one. As a rule, before cloning, check the book(s) we have, clean them up (order, pages, dates and so on, adding a moderator note on why you are changing the date if you are changing dates on titles) and then clone. Otherwise you need to do a lot more work later :) Annie (talk) 13:15, 31 May 2023 (EDT)

Nice technique. I'll gladly use it. Phil (talk) 13:54, 31 May 2023 (EDT)


Careful when adding books with more than one author - you missed Don Goodman here and here. Annie (talk) 13:33, 31 May 2023 (EDT)

I'll be sure to watch that when I create chapbooks that go with an existing shortfiction title. Phil (talk) 13:51, 31 May 2023 (EDT)

Import vs. Merge

When you are working on chapbooks, it may be better off to add the story and then merge than leave the import for later. It is still a single operation but in the meantime, the chapbook is incomplete. That's different from collections and anthologies who stand on their own but chapbooks exist for their short fiction/poem. You don't really win much by not adding and then merging (if anything, if you are adding multiple chapbooks formats, a single merge will get the stories back together as opposed to import per book). Either way works but not adding the story may end up with forgetting to add it later - and someone will need to clean after that. My policy in such things is to use the way that leaves the DB records as unproblematic as possible in between steps. Then even if I am pulled away in the middle of an edit, it may be wrong but it won't be very wrong. ;) Annie (talk) 13:40, 31 May 2023 (EDT)

Added bonus: you don't need to faffle with the dates because the merge will take care of that. So in cases where you are adding earlied chapbooks, it is actually more efficient to add the story during the book adding and then merge than to re-date and then import ;) Annie (talk) 13:42, 31 May 2023 (EDT)
So far I've been pretty careful to go back but I can see how easy it would be to miss one. I'll do it that way from now on. Phil (talk) 13:59, 31 May 2023 (EDT)
We all are - but things happen. Plus that way you do not end up with someone undoing the date change if you are late in adding the story. If New/Import is easier for you than New/Merge, that still works -- I was just sharing some personal advice on what seems to behave a bit better for me.:) Annie (talk) 14:04, 31 May 2023 (EDT)


Two things about this one:

  • If you are using a UK price, you need a UK source. Amazon UK is not a mirror of, they can be very very different. So if you use the price from Amazon UK, you add Amazon UK as a source and not (or both if that makes sense like here)
  • Always use | numbers to order the titles in a e-book when there are introductions, post-novel essays and excerpts. I know that on NewPub you cannot add a page to the novel itself so this is always a second step so this is more of a heads up :) Annie (talk) 13:55, 31 May 2023 (EDT)

Dafydd ab Hugh books

I added ISBNs to the ebooks you added. Kobo ( ) is a good source for ISBNs for US books; for UK books (I usually refer to them as Kobo USA and Kobo UK respectively in notes). Both of them also carry audiobooks and sometimes can give you ISBNs for ones that Audible uses a B-ASIN for. Outside of a few children's publishers and very few others, publishers use eISBN for all their ebook formats (a thing that does not exist in theory but is there in practice). When Amazon still carried and showed ISBNs for ebooks, the two usually carried the same ISBN on the same book . Kobo can even give you a hint for a list price sometimes when Amazon is being obstinate. :) Annie (talk) 14:18, 31 May 2023 (EDT)

Wiz of Tiz; January 1990, not January 1989, according to copy's copyright page. EDIT: The title and cover art title are also wrong, there's no "The", and I may be wrong but that excerpt page number doesn't look right. --Username (talk) 19:38, 2 June 2023 (EDT)

I'll put it on my list of items to check when I can get to my copy of the book. Currently, all my paperbacks are in boxes from my interstate move and won't be unpacked until my new bookshelves are built. The rough ETA for that is the end of July. Phil (talk) 22:04, 2 June 2023 (EDT)

Self-approver status

You are now a self-approver. Congratulations! Ahasuerus (talk) 10:02, 5 June 2023 (EDT)

Welcome to the dark side. Uhm, I mean... :) Don't hesitate to reach out and ask if you need any help -- and have fun. (Cue checking the same edit 10 times now that you realize the second set of eyes is gone). Annie (talk) 12:32, 5 June 2023 (EDT)
Thanks. I'm sure I will be reaching out... and checking even more. Now to clear my own backlog... :) Phil (talk) 12:36, 5 June 2023 (EDT)

Zelazny - Blood of Amber

Hello Phil, adding Reg3 ID# to your PV'd pub here. As I'm adding a lot of Reg3 ID#s, could you let me know if you still want to be notified every time I make those simple edits? Thanks, Kev. --BanjoKev (talk) 20:45, 8 June 2023 (EDT)

Thanks for asking but I don't need the notices. Frankly, I only notify people for substantive changes. For External IDs, covers, and spelling corrections, I assume people are watching their "My Verifications > My Recently Changed Primary Verifications" when they show a New status. That's what I do. YMMV :) Phil (talk) 21:59, 8 June 2023 (EDT)

Tales of the Witch World 3

For Tales of the Witch World 3: Would you please check the author credits for page 216 & 231? Per the Internet Archive of the pb, the author is credited as Karen E. Rigley on the story TOC and the Afterword signature. Did the hc truly use Karen Rigley are is this a database typo? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:49, 9 June 2023 (EDT)

It is indeed a typo that I missed seeing before I PVed. It is Karen E. Rigley in the ToC, on page 216, and page 231. I fixed the entries in record. Phil (talk) 22:17, 9 June 2023 (EDT)

Alexandre R.; Rio should probably be made a variant of Rito. --Username (talk) 11:55, 15 June 2023 (EDT)

Thanks. I'm checking with the author. Phil (talk) 13:10, 15 June 2023 (EDT)
Confirmed and fixed. Phil (talk) 08:51, 16 June 2023 (EDT)
Don't forget to make Alexandre Rio an alternative name for Alexandre Rito. John Scifibones 09:06, 16 June 2023 (EDT)
Done. I thought I had done that but apparently missed it. Thanks for catching this. Phil (talk) 09:11, 16 June 2023 (EDT)

The Music of the Spheres & Other Classic Science Fiction Stories

Re this edit: I'll be changing the dates back. These are all variant titles, because Stuart J. Byrne is a variant of S. J. Byrne. Current rules state that variant titles are dated on the first publication of the variant, not the parent title. Please discuss things like this before making changes. Thanks, --Willem (talk) 13:39, 1 July 2023 (EDT)

Sorry. I'll communicate better in the future. But in that case they should all be dated to the ebook of the same title published on 2006-02-08, right? ebook record. Phil (talk) 17:35, 1 July 2023 (EDT)
You're right, 2006-02-08 it is now you've cloned the book for the e-book edition. I corrected the dates, and added to the notes of the collection title. I could not find any proof a 1997 edition was ever published, so the copyright date belongs in the notefield. Thanks, --Willem (talk) 04:46, 2 July 2023 (EDT)
Publisher is one word in all other books,, including 2006 edition of Music of the Spheres. Amazon Look Inside seems to have all 3 words together, PageTurnerEditions. --Username (talk) 09:19, 2 July 2023 (EDT)
My copy of the 2006 ebook has "PageTurner Editions" and so does the Amazon Look-Inside for it. Phil (talk) 09:25, 2 July 2023 (EDT)
Yes, it's a mess, hard to tell if what's on ISFDB actually matches what's in the books since so many different editors over the years entered these, some say Editions, some don't, one spells PageTurner with a small "t" and a comma and has a couple of dozen books in its record, so who knows. I just happened to notice that the 2013 Spheres is the only one on ISFDB that separates PageTurner which doesn't match what's shown in Look Inside, but what is shown doesn't match any of the publishers on ISFDB. I guess it's down to how various editors interpreted whether the way the publisher is printed implied there were spaces between the words or not. Sometimes it's hard to tell with the fonts they use. --Username (talk) 09:49, 2 July 2023 (EDT)

Free Amazons of Darkover

Hi. Your verified pub and this verified pub appear to be the same, and it was suggested that since you are active and the other verifier no longer is, that if you moved your verification to the other one (586689) and deleted 904062 that could preserve the other verification as well. Thanks. gzuckier (talk) 23:10, 14 July 2023 (EDT)

Done. It was indeed a duplicate save for the pub series/number and catalog ID fields which I added. I also moved the number line into a separate note for clarity. Nice catch! Phil (talk) 07:40, 15 July 2023 (EDT)

Shadow Moon; I just added HC link in a PENDING edit and noticed cover art has no month. I doubt audio book came out first, just the usual Amazon "first day of the month" thing when they don't really know the date, so do you think art should be September like the HC? EDIT: I also added link to PB of this,, and it does have month entered for art but uses audio date instead of HC date. --Username (talk) 10:11, 15 July 2023 (EDT)

Both and Goodreads show this audiocassette pub date as 2015-08-01. WorldCat, as usual, only shows the year (2015). I've fixed this record to add the missing ISBN and remove the irrelevant ASIN but as I have seen a number of cases where the audio version appears to have been published before the physical or ebook editions, I'm hesitant to do more than change the cover art date to anything but 2015-08-00. That said, I do find it odd whenever available data shows an audio version published before a hb or ebook edition. Phil (talk) 16:44, 15 July 2023 (EDT)

Alcheringia; LCCN not on Library of Congress website, should be removed and put in Notes. --Username (talk) 11:22, 15 July 2023 (EDT)

My copy is still in its moving box and unavailable to check how the LCCN was stated. Hopefully GlennMcG can do this. Phil (talk) 16:27, 15 July 2023 (EDT)

Asimov's Choice: Comets & Computers

Hi Phil

I'm going to add the Reginald3 number to your verified Asimov's Choice: Comets & Computers. I'm also going to remove the series name, "Asimov's Choice", from the title. This has been done for the other publications in the series. Please let me know if you have any concerns. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 08:28, 30 July 2023 (EDT)

Not a problem. Go ahead. Phil (talk) 08:32, 30 July 2023 (EDT)

1634: The Bavarian Crisis

The Pages field for your verified publication 1634: The Bavarian Crisis currently shows '[x]+690+[3]'. I initially approved a submission removing the brackets from the Roman numeral (subsequently reversed). Per the help, we enter the Roman numeral for the highest numbered page. Hence, brackets can never be correct. However, I own a copy of the first edition, there are no Roman numerals in my copy. In my opinion, the correct entry for Pages is '690+[3]'. Do you agree? If not, why? John Scifibones 16:54, 9 September 2023 (EDT)

I was a relatively new editor at that point so I suspect I just went along with assuming that the prior PVs had done it right. That said, looking at my copy of 1634: The Bavarian Crisis with more experienced eyes, there are 10 unnumbered pages prior to page 1. There are maps on unnumbered pages 8, 9, and 10. The only place that Roman numerals are indicated are in the ToC but there is a note for that. Therefore, I think the correct page count is [10]+690+[3] and the page number for the maps title needs to be changed to [8].
It's the same situation for 1635: The Eastern Front. The page count should be [9]+369, the page number for the maps title needs to be changed to [9], and a note needs to be added about the Roman numeral in the ToC.
I'm willing to do those changes if there's no disagreement from Nihonjoe. Please let me know. Phil (talk) 08:10, 10 September 2023 (EDT)
We agree. I should have updated this thread after reviewing all the hc first printings. John Scifibones 08:26, 10 September 2023 (EDT)
Do you want me to do those changes for those two publications? Phil (talk) 08:30, 10 September 2023 (EDT)
I think we should wait for Nihonjoe to chime in. If he agrees, go ahead and change them. I'll add my PV to the updated records. John Scifibones 08:37, 10 September 2023 (EDT)
Since Nihonjoe disagrees, you need to join this conversation. thanks, John Scifibones 16:44, 13 September 2023 (EDT)
Added my comments to the conversation on Nihonjoe's page. I've also fixed the records for numbers 3, 5, and 9 after looking at your analysis and verifying your corrections for them. The rest in dispute will have to wait on getting Nihonjoe to agree. Phil (talk) 11:17, 14 September 2023 (EDT)

Heroes of Zara Keep

Hello Phil, I noticed intrusive spaces in the Pages field for this pub... if you'd do the honours. Kev. --BanjoKev (talk) 02:05, 22 September 2023 (EDT)

Fixed. Phil (talk) 07:35, 22 September 2023 (EDT)

Charmed Destinies; I just added an archived link; should page count be 313? --Username (talk) 12:37, 24 September 2023 (EDT)

Yes. The last printed page number is 313 and there is nothing of interest after that page. Once your edit is approved, I'll fix that, the page number note, and the content page numbers. I'll also leave a note on Chavey's Talk page. Please do me a favor and respond here when the approval is accepted so I don't lose track. Phil (talk) 17:49, 24 September 2023 (EDT)

Mira Grant / Feed

I am editing and PVing the first US printing of Feed and propose to add the interview and excerpt at the end of the book. I've seen your note: "Unable to check paperback books" so will proceed. Teallach (talk) 17:39, 3 October 2023 (EDT)

Magic in Ithkar 3 and 4; I have a PENDING edit adding archived link to the PB (and fixing the month to September) and artist is Steven, not Stephen. Does your TP PV really say Stephen? A fix or unmerge/variant will be needed. EDIT:; This one was also different so I fixed it since that was possible in this case; check your copy if you can just in case. --Username (talk) 10:24, 8 October 2023 (EDT)

Good catches. Magic in Ithkar 3 is spelled Steven in my copy so I changed it and created the canonical variant. For Magic in Ithkar 4, Steve is the correct spelling. I'll variant it when your submission goes through. Phil (talk) 11:37, 8 October 2023 (EDT)

Please come participate... this discussion on page numbering questions. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:08, 17 October 2023 (EDT)

Darkover; Artist should be David Cherry. --Username (talk) 19:04, 25 November 2023 (EST)

Hi Phil
While this change is not required, I've no objection to changing the credit. The remaining verifier, has a note on his talk page allowing for changes of this sort. If you agree, you can either proceed to make the change or let me know if you want me to do it. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 15:06, 26 November 2023 (EST)
Changed and made a variant of the canonical author's name. Phil (talk) 16:31, 26 November 2023 (EST)

Sieze the Night (excerpt)

Would you mind double checking the title of the excerpt in Night Play? Is "Sieze" instead of "Seize" a database typo or original to the pub? Would you please, as appropriate, either correct or add a note stating the typo as per the pub? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:33, 10 December 2023 (EST)

It was a misspelling. Fixed. Phil (talk) 15:47, 10 December 2023 (EST)

Cyteen submission

Phil, this submission is incorrect. Your original explanation to Mavmaramis was correct. Please review this discussion. JLaTondre referenced the appropriate help section and Annie admits she was wrong. I'm posting this because you are a self-approver. John Scifibones 09:21, 16 December 2023 (EST)

Boy, when I misread, I do it well! I'll correct the pub. Phil (talk) 09:25, 16 December 2023 (EST)

Sherwood Game; No M. on title page. EDIT: Cover is bad with name on top hard to see; new one should be uploaded. --Username (talk) 19:14, 25 December 2023 (EST)

Hi Phil
I've double checked my copy and I'm going to proceed with changing the author credit. Let me know if you have any concerns about that change. There is a bit of scratching on the cover of my copy and I'm not really able to get a better scan of the cover. I've no objections if you can get a better scan and wish to replace the existing one. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:18, 26 December 2023 (EST)
I uploaded new scan. It's better than what was there but there's still room for improvement. Those foil covers are nearly impossible to get right. Phil (talk) 09:43, 26 December 2023 (EST)

Sea Gold; Since the last book in the series listed at the front of the archived copy is 1962's Flaming Mountain and you said yours was bought new in the 1960's I added the link to your record; it's certainly not a first printing. --Username (talk) 13:01, 20 January 2024 (EST)

Bone Doll's Twin - verify cover art on your edition

Hi there, before I do any cover image update on the pub, I'm double checking with the other active verifiers of Bone Doll's Twin 1st edition mass market paperback - would you be able to double check that your edition has the gold-backed title like this amazon image? [27]. My library copy does, which is why I'm looking to correct the one the pub is showing. To my knowledge the black-backed title on the cover is from later printings. Thanks! Kapotun (talk) 19:06, 5 February 2024 (EST)

Mine has the gold-foil title background with the author's name in white lettering. Nice catch. Phil (talk) 22:03, 5 February 2024 (EST)
Thanks for confirming! GlennMcG confirmed as well and uploaded a new image. Kapotun (talk) 10:04, 6 February 2024 (EST)

Main Event

Please see this discussion. Does Main Event have any information about the the author? If so, does anything indicate it is the same person as this? I question whether the current biographical information is the right person. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 12:34, 10 February 2024 (EST)

There is absolutely no author biographical information anywhere in the book or on the inside or outside covers. Phil (talk) 22:36, 10 February 2024 (EST)

David Gerrold / With a Finger in My I

I am editing and PVing With a Finger in My I and propose to: 1) change the coverart record to the name as stated in book and make "Mati Klarwen" an alternate name of "Mati Klarwein". 2) Change story title "The Crystal Castle" to "This Crystal Castle". Is all this ok with you? Teallach (talk) 10:06, 11 February 2024 (EST)

Looks good. Would you also add a note referencing that the ToC shows the title as "The Crystal Castle". Thanks Phil (talk) 11:05, 11 February 2024 (EST)
Oh! That's interesting. My copy states "This Crystal Castle" on both the ToC and page 153. I've checked again after reading your comment and the title has not changed overnight. :-) Would you mind double-checking your copy? It might also be worth checking whether yours is a US or Canadian printing (although they shouldn't be different). Mine is a US printing. Teallach (talk) 17:50, 11 February 2024 (EST)
My bad. Not sure how I misread it this morning but both the ToC and Page 153 show the title as "This Crystal Castle". Sorry for the confusion. Phil (talk) 21:51, 11 February 2024 (EST)

David Gerrold / A Season for Slaughter

I am editing and PVing A Season for Slaughter and will add in the interview on page 557. Teallach (talk) 12:15, 15 February 2024 (EST)

It's in my copy on the same page so feel free to go ahead. Phil (talk) 15:03, 15 February 2024 (EST)

David Gerrold / The Middle of Nowhere

I am editing and PVing The Middle of Nowhere and will change Pages to 309+[17] and include "Starhunt (excerpt)" on page [313]. Teallach (talk) 18:29, 15 February 2024 (EST)

I concur. It looks like the excerpt starts on page [313]. OK by me. Phil (talk) 21:40, 15 February 2024 (EST)

David Gerrold / Chess with a Dragon

I am working on David Gerrold / Chess with a Dragon. I have made a fairly accurate estimate of the word count and reckon it's close to 31,000 so it's comfortably a novella, not a novel. Incidentally, there is a pub note in the first edition in which an editor surmises that it might be a novella. Hence I propose to change it to Chapbook / Novella. I would also like to mark it as Juvenile. Locus1 describes it as "young-adult" and I seem to remember when I read it (many years ago, admittedly!) that it was a juvenile. Is all this ok with you? Teallach (talk) 18:35, 15 February 2024 (EST)

OK by me. Phil (talk) 21:50, 15 February 2024 (EST)

Cyber Way

Hi. I accepted a couple of submissions adjusting the page count and importing a trailing Author's Note in your verified Cyber Way. Please review and adjust if necessary. I am leaving this same note for the other active PVer as well. Thanks. --MartyD (talk) 07:58, 9 March 2024 (EST)

I checked my copy and the changes are accurate. Thanks for letting me know. Phil (talk) 14:32, 9 March 2024 (EST)

Shades of Grey

Hi Phil,

Just a friendly reminder that we do not use "A Novel" as a subtitle on novels even when it is on the cover/title page - unless it is the author's intent to have it (which usually it is not) - just like the series title does not make it into the title field usually. So I cleaned up the records here and just dropping you a quick note. Thanks for adding these! :) Annie (talk) 17:01, 12 March 2024 (EDT)

Thanks. BTW, that particular practice is not documented in the Title help here and here. Do we need to get it added there? :) Phil (talk) 15:59, 15 March 2024 (EDT)
Hmmm. Neither is the non-inclusion of the series name. Phil (talk) 16:04, 15 March 2024 (EDT)
Here: "Note that the title page may show the series name, and sometimes the publication's position in the series. The present (2018) usage is to enter only the "simplified" title, for example, you could enter the title for a publication as "Song of the Dragon" and the note would have "The title page states 'Song of the' over 'Dragon' over 'The annals of Drakis: Book One'." for the series. The match between the title and publication titles takes care of the others. We may need to add the line elsewhere. The "A Novel" thing is possibly not documented anywhere - post over in R&S - should not have too many objections as it had been the practice for at least a decade. ISFDB had always been moderated based on the help and the unwritten policies and practices (which we try to codify when we find out they are missing - thus this 2018 series non-inclusion note. :) Annie (talk) 16:59, 15 March 2024 (EDT)

Time-Servers; Should it be Timeservers? Copyright page says that, dash on cover and title page likely because title was too long to fit on one line when written in huge font. --Username (talk) 13:37, 16 March 2024 (EDT)

Title page form is the standard. I'll look at my copy again, though. Phil (talk) 16:44, 16 March 2024 (EDT)
Looked at my copy and the title page says "Time-Servers". However, I added a couple of notes for clarification. Phil (talk) 17:08, 7 April 2024 (EDT)

Changes to "Baen Fantasy" and "Baen Science Fiction Books"

A quick note to let you know that publisher records "Baen Fantasy" and "Baen Science Fiction Books" are in the process of being converted to publication series under "Baen Books" as per the outcome of this Rules and Standards discussion. This will affect one or more of your primary-verified publications. The only affected fields will be "Publisher" and "Publication Series". Ahasuerus (talk) 19:28, 4 April 2024 (EDT)

Dreamrider; Added link & intro as it is on title page; should you change Roman # to xv, not xvii? --Username (talk) 18:27, 16 April 2024 (EDT)

Fair Trade

Informations in the Notes field of this pv publication give the name of the cover artist in two different ways. This rule says: "If the artist's canonical name is stated in the publication, enter it." So You could use the canonical name and enter it. --Zapp (talk) 07:23, 22 April 2024 (EDT)

Since the canonical name for David Mattingly has been changed to "David Mattingly" from "David B. Mattingly", I have fixed the record. Phil (talk) 22:16, 22 April 2024 (EDT)

Crossroads; I added archived link in a PENDING edit, one of those OL-only "borrow unavailable" ones, and noticed title page only says Crossroads with no subtitle so it should probably be removed. Contents need month added, too. --Username (talk) 21:56, 28 April 2024 (EDT)

Under the Vale; I added archived link in a PENDING edit; note about WorldCat being wrong is wrong because count really is viii+344 so you may want to fix count and remove the note, artist is Jody Lee as one of the notes says but it was entered as Jody A. Lee so you may want to make it Jody and variant it as there are many other ISFDB Jody Lee credits. --Username (talk) 22:23, 28 April 2024 (EDT)

Good catch. I've submitted the changes but will wait until yours is approved before approving mine and doing the cover artist variant. Phil (talk) 08:34, 29 April 2024 (EDT)
Phil, I approved Username's edit. Go ahead and approve yours. John Scifibones 12:38, 29 April 2024 (EDT)
Done. Thanks, John. Phil (talk) 16:32, 29 April 2024 (EDT)