User talk:Anniemod/Archive-2021

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The Unraveling redux

I've just submitted an edit to move the pub date of the ebook back to May, per the data that Amazon UK and B&N are showing. However, for the hc, Amazon (both UK and .com) are showing it as also rescheduled to May, but not available to pre-order, whereas B&N are [1] still showing it as being published next week. The publisher's site still claims it came out on Tuesday, which seems unlikely. (I don't see anything on social media related to any 2021 pub dates.)

Don't suppose you care to have a look at this and make a guess as to when (if?) it might get published? ErsatzCulture 05:32, 8 January 2021 (EST)

This Book will be the death of me. It is officially scheduled for May now - let’s see if that will be the last delay. All sorted. I will check it again in a few days just in case if by any miracle they did publish. But I doubt it and it is not visible anywhere. Annie 05:47, 8 January 2021 (EST)

UK pubs of Chana Porter's The Seep

Just looking to add these, and I was initially a bit puzzled by your - I think? - note about this being <40k words, when the UK pub is reported as 272 pages, and Kobo has it as 46k words, which would seem to be novel territory.

However, on closer inspection - fortunately Kobo has a preview available of the UK edition - it seems the UK pub includes an extra short story, which presumably is 6k+ words long. This leaves me with two possibilities:

  • Add the UK pubs to the existing CHAPBOOK, and add this extra story as extra content
  • Create them as pubs of a new COLLECTION

The latter seems more correct - although I've not been able to find anything on the Wiki about the exact criteria for categorizing these - but is less obvious to a user who stumbles across either the UK or US CHAPBOOK or COLLECTION pages, and doesn't realize the others exist. This could be mitigated by adding title notes to each, linking to the other title record with a brief explanatory note about the additional/missing story.

Any thoughts before I wade into this mess? ErsatzCulture 10:39, 10 January 2021 (EST)

Look at the length of the audible - it needs to be a lot closer to 4 hours to be a novel :) Usually the 40k works end up at around 4.5 hours but anything over a bit under 4 is suspicious. At 3 hours and 5 minutes, that cannot be long enough for a novel - unless it is a very weird one. Thus the note - this appears to be too short. If it is proven to be otherwise, we can always convert again but from all I had seen, unless the audible length is incorrect, it is most likely a novella.
It can be done either way - chapbooks can have a single story added as long as it is not added to the cover and is in essence an add-on. I’d probably leave it as a chapbook and a note in the chapbook record that the UK edition added an additional story. But up to you. Annie 04:59, 11 January 2021 (EST)

Heads up: new(ish) "Hodder Studio" imprint

Apologies for continuing to clog up your talk page, but this might be of relevance when you're processing the Fixer submissions....

I just submitted this edit, which has already been accepted by Rtrace, so I'm guessing you wouldn't be otherwise aware of it? The pub note change and mod note cover the key details, but I see there's at least one other title coming from them in the next couple of months that appears to be ISFDB-eligible; (currently) it is showing as from "Hodder Studio", but whether it'll have the same confusion on the title & copyright page re. publisher, who knows?

This Bookseller story vaguely mentions a few titles that sound like they're probably ISFDB-eligible; I'll see if I can dig out more details, and submit where relevant. The imprint isn't currently known to the database, and I dunno if Fixer would need to be configured to pick up any of their pubs? My browser extension that uses Ahasuerus' Fixer dumps indicates that Fixer has some awareness of at least this ISBN. ErsatzCulture 10:48, 14 January 2021 (EST)

No worries at all :) Thanks for the note! Fixer is an equal opportunity grabber - if it is tagged with our topics, it will grab it regardless of the publisher. Sorting is different but this is close enough to an existing not to be sent directly to Q3. So we should be fine. UK titles just come slower due to how we need to grab them (no API). I may need to adjust the name manually but we will cross that bridge when we see it. :) Annie 11:21, 14 January 2021 (EST)
Thanks. Part of me asking the question earlier today about scriptbooks on the Rules page, is that Hodder Studio have put out such a scriptbook that is unambiguously from that imprint, so I'll submit that in the next day or so, and then add some notes, links etc to the new publisher entry. ErsatzCulture 12:13, 14 January 2021 (EST)

Spec Ops Z series

Sorry, me again...

Do you have any idea/recollection of why this series exists - it seems to have been created based on a Fixer submission you accepted?

Based on this author tweet, it doesn't seem like there are any more actively commissioned or being worked on. Is it maybe because it has "(Special Purposes)" in parenthesis - at least on Amazon UK - as you might expect to see if it were in a series? Although in this case, it's a weak indicator that it's a reissue cf this. ErsatzCulture 17:29, 18 January 2021 (EST)

Fixer does not create series, I do... He just serves weird titles. :)
In this case, it was because served the title as "Spec Ops Z (1)" which 99.99% of the cases means that it is a first in a series so I just added it without thinking. When this is up for review in a month or two or when an ebook/audio book shows up for it, I would have realized it is indeed not a series and killed it. Which I just did :) No clue how I missed that it is a reissue -- let's chalk it to not enough coffee - I tend to check for this kind of stuff on new books and usually catch it when adding it on the initial run but sometimes I miss them. Thanks for finding it! Annie 17:38, 18 January 2021 (EST)
And yes, there is a history of that typo - if the TITLE itself was not edited, it inherited from the PUBLICATION so the history is here. I finished the fix you started - don't forget that the two titles are now separate so if you change the title record you need to change the pub record as well (and the cover one plus any interior arts and essays containing the title if created). We do miss some history but in such cases, don't forget to check the pub level history - the title one will only show what was changed on the TITLE itself, not as part of a PUB edit. Annie 17:48, 18 January 2021 (EST)
Re. the reissue, the only place I have seen this mentioned is the author tweet linked in the edit note. (Goodreads had it as a new book, until I just merged it with the old one there a second ago.) ErsatzCulture 17:54, 18 January 2021 (EST) probably updated their listing some time between when I worked on it and now to read "A handsome new re-issue of a high-octane military-SF, as Russian Spetsnaz commandos are turned into zombies in ‘80s New York.". There is (almost) no way it was there when I added the book even if I was fully asleep - weirder things had happened but I know I am watching for these so... And if GR did not know either... Oh well - all sorted. Annie 17:59, 18 January 2021 (EST)


I hope life is treating you well.

I am keeping plenty busy adding url links for scanned magazine copies. After Astounding, and Analog through 1979 ( has them thru 1979), and Galaxy (mostly up to 1979, and then a few from 1994 and 95), I'm currently working on Worlds of If. At least some people that I know in the SF world are pretty happy about this.

Next up will the Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction. has them from the start through 1979. I am not sure why, but does not have any SF magazines after 1979. The Internet Archive has them through about 2005.

I was comfortable adding the 1994-95 Galaxy issues, as the publisher of those issues (the Institute for the Development of the Harmonious Human Being, Inc) is clearly not publishing any such magazine anymore, and has not done so for over 25 years.

I am more concerned about when to stop adding links to scanned F&SF issues, given that it's an active, currently published magazine.

I am wondering if there has been discussion about this kind of issue before. If so, what was the result?

If it has not been discussed, I would still appreciate your advice.

Thanks and best wishes, Dave888 19:11, 19 January 2021 (EST)

Adding F&SF - A Question


I hope life is treating you well.

I am keeping plenty busy adding url links for scanned magazine copies. After Astounding, and Analog through 1979 ( has them thru 1979), and Galaxy (mostly up to 1979, and then a few from 1994 and 95), I'm currently working on Worlds of If. At least some people that I know in the SF world are pretty happy about this.

Next up will the Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction. has them from the start through 1979. I am not sure why, but does not have any SF magazines after 1979. The Internet Archive has them through about 2005.

I was comfortable adding the 1994-95 Galaxy issues, as the publisher of those issues (the Institute for the Development of the Harmonious Human Being, Inc) is clearly not publishing any such magazine anymore, and has not done so for over 25 years.

I am more concerned about when to stop adding links to scanned F&SF issues, given that it's an active, currently published magazine.

I am wondering if there has been discussion about this kind of issue before. If so, what was the result?

If it has not been discussed, I would still appreciate your advice.

Thanks and best wishes, Dave888 19:12, 19 January 2021 (EST)

Annie: See here. I don't know if we should be linking to sites with the full magazines scanned unless we are sure they are out of copyright. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:17, 19 January 2021 (EST)
Yeah - I saw that one and had been thinking on that. The old magazines are/were fine but these are a way too new and definitely under copyright - at least in the States. Annie 23:22, 19 January 2021 (EST)
Dave, let’s halt for a bit here until we figure out what we want to do on new magazines Annie 23:22, 19 January 2021 (EST)
Got it. I will halt all such activity until I get direction on what is old and ok and what is not. Thanks.

Dave888 16:44, 20 January 2021 (EST)

Hi Annie. Just checking in on this question. Has there been guidance on this whole issue? I did take a quick check, and Unknown and the rest of Venture Science Fiction could both use links to scans. Thanks.Dave888 00:22, 8 December 2021 (EST)

I would suggest contacting Gordon Van Gelder, owner and editor of F&SF, for permission to use the images.Rkihara 03:13, 8 December 2021 (EST)

Pi Editions

Hi Annie, I saw that you beat me to it by adding Sultana's Dream via Fixer. It's probably worth letting you know that Pi Editions is my own small press, started in October under lockdown for something to do. I have a few publications now, mostly ebooks of public domain works and also a collection of my own non-fiction/essays over the last 20 years. If you have any queries about Pi Editions pubs, just holler. Cheers. PeteYoung 07:33, 22 January 2021 (EST)

Ha. Congrats. Yeah - Fixer is bound to find things. Will do! :) Annie 14:57, 22 January 2021 (EST)
Cool! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:50, 22 January 2021 (EST)

Feb 2020 UK pubs (or not as the case may be)


This is likely something you already know about, but I'm just starting to go through the UK pubs I have scraped data for, which were scheduled for early Feb publication (when I scraped them), and it seems that the majority have been rescheduled for April or May. I assume this is due to the current UK lockdown and all UK bookshops (the main chains at least) being closed, and not even doing call/click-and-collect service. The impression I get, from the small sample set I've looked at so far, is that more pubs have been pushed back than in the lockdown period last Spring.

Some of these pubs were already in the DB - e.g. the Gollancz New Horizons collection that's been bounced around any number of times - so I've submitted edits for them, but it looks like there are more that Fixer hadn't yet submitted. I know you check the info Fixer submits, but just a heads up to avoid wasting your time.

I'll see about resurrecting the list I had on my personal Wiki pages of delayed pubs, if only for my own benefit. ErsatzCulture 11:25, 24 January 2021 (EST)

Welcome to my life since April. :) Last year the pushing was worse on this side of the pond - there were a few weeks when I was adding on the day of publication - it was that bad and then we did not add more than a week or so ahead of time through the summer. That way books got rescheduled before being added. Thanks for the heads up :) Annie 12:29, 24 January 2021 (EST)


How I undo a rejection of a entry that I clicked wrong? --Paulotecario 17:40, 27 January 2021 (EST)

It looks like you figured it out but generally: go to My Pending Edits and you can see what you have pending and reject the ones you made a mistake in :) Annie 18:31, 27 January 2021 (EST)
Ah, unreject. Only a moderator can unreject so post on the Moderator board and someone will do it for you. I just did that on this one :) Annie 18:33, 27 January 2021 (EST)
Thank you!! --Paulotecario 13:58, 28 January 2021 (EST)

Best American Science Fiction and Fantasy 2020 - Several questions

Hi Annie. I hope life is treating you well.

I have a tp copy of the 2020 "The Best American Science Fiction and Fantasy" (Diana Gabaldon, Ed; John Joseph Adams, Series Editor) from the library. Looks like a great anthology. (The Best American Science Fiction and Fantasy 2020, Publication Record # 798555)

I noticed that there are no TOC details on the tp (or any of the other versions) of this on ISFDB.

I'm thinking I might as well edit the publication entry to add the TOC contents, but I have several questions before I do that.

1. Given that this is a reprint anthology, all of the contents were printed elsewhere first. I checked, and most of them have ISFDB entries already for the source appearances. So, I assume that I need to be really careful to use the same author and title for those TOC entries, to ensure it connects with the story publication record. Is there anything else I need to do on this to ensure it connects with the correct database entry for the story?

You can import them. :) Look at the left menu on the publication. There is an Import menu. You will use Option 2 and just add the IDs of the titles that are inside. :) No need to do all of them - you can do them in batches if you prefer. For the ones that have a title we do not have yet, you add as usual.

2. For some of these entries, ISFDB does not have the story or source as a publication. I don't have those original publications either. I can at the very least check online (Amazon, publisher, etc) to ensure it's a real publication, correctly identified, etc.

Given that I do not have those original publications myself, is it preferred to just add the source to the Notes for the story entry? I would be reluctant to do a full entry for the source, given that I don't have that in my possession.

Nah, if you want to, add the missing publications. Just do not verify them. :) And add a note on sources for the record. We want them in the DB. But it is up to you. Any and all help is welcome.
Two More questions on adding a publication.
A. One of them is a 2019 New Yorker. There is not yet a "New Yorker - 2019" title. Is that generated automatically when I add the specific issue, or do I have to do something else? ::Dave888 12:32, 4 February 2021 (EST)
You add the magazine and do not worry about the yearly record. When the first record for 2019 is created, a second submission will rename it to the yearly format. That's valid for any magazine - joining the yearly record or renaming it is always a second step :) Annie 12:47, 4 February 2021 (EST)
B. The other two appear to be webzines. i) One of them is "Nightmare Magazine". There are a number of 2019 issues already in the DB, but not the November issue for the story concerned. This appears to be an ongoing webzine. I assume it is OK to add this the November issue and TOC from the webzine. ii) The other was first printed at, in their "Future Tense" feature from January 26, 2019. The story "Thoughts and Prayers" is in ISFDB, but it does not list this first publication. The copyright info for the book lists the Slate/Future Tense appearance. There appear to be other Slate/Future Tense fiction and non-fiction entries that have genre pertinence. ::Dave888 12:32, 4 February 2021 (EST)
Nightmare is also an ebook - so you can either add it as a webzine or as an ebook (we need both technically so feel free to add either or both). And yes - you can add the contents from the webzine if you are sure it is the same (Lightspeed for example has additional contents in the ebook).
Look at our rules of Acquisition for what web contents we actually allow in - just being relevant to the genre is not enough. For webzines we need them to have "issues" basically. Here is the exact text:
  • Speculative fiction webzines, which are defined as online periodicals with distinct issues (note: online periodicals without distinct issues are not considered webzines)
  • Special speculative fiction issues of non-genre webzines
  • One time speculative fiction anthologies published on the Web
  • Online publications available exclusively as a Web page, but only if:
  • published by a market which makes the author eligible for SFWA membership , OR
  • shortlisted for a major award
Slate is eligible only for its fiction with a bit of a wink: see here - we treat each story as a single "issue" and under the "Special speculative fiction issues of non-genre webzines" sub-clause basically :) It is a bit of a stretch but as they published some of the bigger authors, it kinda makes sense so we count it as this. So you can add the story and any other FICTION that way but not the non-fiction (again - don't worry about the yearly records, just add the individual issues using the same title format as in the ones we already have).
Hope that all this makes sense. Annie 12:47, 4 February 2021 (EST)
Thanks. That all makes sense. I do appreciate your help - I do try to use the various Help features, but some coaching is sure a plus. Please feel free to tell me to just go back to the general forums if you get tired of my questions. I'm glad I asked about the webzines and ezines - that is pretty darn nuanced.Dave888 13:03, 4 February 2021 (EST)
Ezines are always eligible (if there is an ebook, it is in no matter what - same way as if it was printed), webzines - only sometimes :) We used to disallow webzines completely except for that last point (awards and membership) but opened for the "issues" ones a few years ago.
If you do not mind waiting for me to get back to you (which may happen slowly sometimes), it is ok to ask here. The only reason to post on the general boards is so more people can see it but depending on the time, it may still be me answering anyway :) And if I am gone for long enough, another editor will jump in and answer on my page as well :)
And no worries - the DB is big and complicated and there are nuances inside of nuances. Always happy to help with an explanation. Annie 13:14, 4 February 2021 (EST)
Your guidance would be welcome. Thanks again and best wishes.
Dave888 12:32, 4 February 2021 (EST)

3. I'm planning on editing the record for the tp copy, as that is what I have in front of me. It appears that the TOC for the ebook version is identical (aside from the lack of page numbers); I need to confirm this. What is your advice on how to best deal with the ebook?

Fill in the Tp. Then we can import from there into the ebook directly (Option 1 on that Import menu is for this usecase) and clean up the page numbers by adding | to all of them thus keeping the order.

4. I am not planning on doing anything for the audio CD editions. Let me know if you have a different suggestion.

No worries. After we have one of them filled in, importing into these will be trivial. I can do that easily. :)

Best wishes, Dave888 18:17, 2 February 2021 (EST)

Answers inline. Don’t hesitate to ask if you have any questions. Annie 01:40, 3 February 2021 (EST)

Harlan Ellison's Watching

Hello Annie. You recently approved changes I made to this publication. I uploaded a scan of the dustwrapper for this edition not realising (a) it had the same image as the limited edition and (b) my copy was a 2nd printing. I made notes regarding the detail differences between the two editions - text colour on the spine etc - so the image is actually the dustwrapper of the limited edition not the trade edition [trade edition having white text on spine not orange, and my trade edition's dustwraper is badly scuffed - mind you it only cost me £20 so there's that - bought as a reading copy]. I do have a photo of my slipcased edition (out of it's slipcase with dustwrapper opened out) but I suspect if I tried to upload that it would over-write the existing one. Is that something easily rectified ? --Mavmaramis 02:34, 6 February 2021 (EST)

It is the old problem with the tags - the cover was added in one of the publications and then when the second one was created/updated, instead of adding a new image, the path to the existing one was used. I untangled it - you may need to reload the page to see the change. If an image is not the one you want (I was not sure what to leave in the Trade so left yours basically - so you may need to replace it?), you can now upload a new cover in one and it won't carry into the other. :) Annie 04:10, 6 February 2021 (EST)
Thank you Annie. I've uploaded the photo of the unboxed slipcase edition to that record and scanned the dustwrapper of my trade edition for that record - you will note the difference in text colour on the spines. --Mavmaramis 04:33, 6 February 2021 (EST)
Approved the last edit and now we should be all set in all 3 :) Annie 04:46, 6 February 2021 (EST)

Standardized name format

Based on the Edit History, you were the last to modify this publication. My question is: should the name be standardized to include the comma? The reason I ask is that I've been following up on the Community Portal entry Cthulhu's Creatures and one ToC entry uses the non-standard name format (no comma). I propose to include the comma. ../Doug H 10:11, 10 February 2021 (EST)

Is there a comma on the title page of the story? If yes - then - yes. We do not have a format that requires adding commas where they are not there... or am I missing something here?
Looking at it - I added a translator and fixed the parent only on the story and added notes on the Moreno Pavanello story in the publication so I do not have an opinion one way or another on the title :) Annie 10:20, 10 February 2021 (EST)
Oh, you meant the author name, didn't you? I need coffee... :)
Yes we should I believe unless there is a very good explanation on why not but Dirk made the alternative name so you may want to ask him why... I did not even notice when I was doing the translations... Annie 10:31, 10 February 2021 (EST)
There's no access to title page, so I'll add the comma and explain in the notes. I'll also ping Dirk just for fun. Everyone keeps on about the 'coffee' stuff, I may have to try it some time. ../Doug H 11:10, 10 February 2021 (EST)
Nah, if it is the author name, the title page does not matter. We have a rule on authors name like this one. In the mornings, I am known to say that there is too much blood in my caffeine system... Annie 11:11, 10 February 2021 (EST)

A Question of Direction

Hi Annie.

At the moment, I have finished doing all of the edits and other ISFDB improvements that I had planned to do.

I know that there might be edits needed on magazines to add links to scans, but I am waiting for policy direction on that per our prior discussion. As I stated previously, I will not be doing anything on this until I get guidance.

I am wondering if you have advice on what kinds of ISFDB editing/improvement would be most useful with my interests and skill and knowledge levels.

The two things I can see myself working on are:

1. Filling in missing magazines on some of the recent webzine/ebook publications, especially those that appear to be fairly major and viable in some ways and that have major authors with major and perhaps award winning works. I would be working from either publisher websites or Amazon kindle preview info.

2. Cleanup Reports - I took a brief look at this, and there sure appear to be a lot of opportunities for dealing with issues that may need to be dealt with.

I am not in any hurry, and I sure have plenty of other things to do in my life that will keep me busy. At the same time, I do like to be useful and there do appear to be opportunities, and I would appreciate any guidance you could offer.

Best wishes, Dave888 15:09, 12 February 2021 (EST)

Up to you - do what interests you: we can use the help with both of these things. We used to have an editor that worked a lot with short fiction but she is not active anymore so a lot of our magazines are falling behind. :)
If you go for the cleanup reports, make sure you know what you are supposed to be doing there - some of them are a bit... interesting. I am always around to answer questions as well.
And you can do both things in parallel as well - both tasks can be annoying so switching between them may be worth it. And then we have the reports that contain empty magazines and collection/anthology records - which also can use a contents being added from them. :) Annie 15:46, 12 February 2021 (EST)
I appreciate your thoughts. It does look like some of the magazines/webzines/ebook magazines are pretty current, while some have some holes. At the same time, it might be fun to try to deal with some of the Cleanup Report issues. If I do that, I will generally take a cautious approach, especially when doing something new, and try to ask for help if I just don't get what to do or how to do it. Also, if :: I try something new, I'll typically try a single edit, and then wait for moderation to see if I nailed things or not, etc.


Dave888 19:49, 12 February 2021 (EST)
Whatever you do, try to have fun :) Annie 01:03, 13 February 2021 (EST)
No worries. I would not be doing this if I did not think it was fun in some way, although my idea of fun may be different from what others may think or feel. Perhaps I am looking for a combination of fun and rewarding.
Dave888 12:09, 13 February 2021 (EST)
My point was - if it starts feeling like a chore, move to something else for a bit. Data quality declines when people get tired of doing the same thing over and over but feel that they must - and people get burned out and leave. Which is not something I want to happen here - thus me saying to make sure you still have fun no matter what you do. :) Annie 12:36, 13 February 2021 (EST)

Weird Business Editing


ISFDB has an entry for Anthology "Weird Business", edited by Joe R. Lansdale & Richard Klaw. It is an anthology of graphic stories.

I found in the Cleanup Reports that it had no contents. I happen to own this, so I am planning on entering the contents. There are issues that I want to be sure I am on track for before starting.

1. All of the stories are graphic stories, with writer, adapter (for some), artist, and perhaps others on each story. I assume we just keep adding them until we get them all for each title entry.

2. A number of the stories are already in ISFDB as short fiction entries, with either identical or almost identical titles, that are prose only. As this is a comic script vs. a work of prose, I believe they are not the same text, even though they are probably the same story.

Based upon what I have seen in the Help files and Forum discussions, it appears that I should treat them as new stories but add to the Notes to explain that there is a prose version also. I saw one suggestion to add to the titles to ensure they are clearly different, such as "Gorilla Gunslinger (graphic story)" or some such. I lean towards adding the Notes, probably to both versions of the story, rather than changing the title.

3. Some of the titles are similar but not identical. Given the conclusion in 2) above, I assume that there is no need to "Variant" the new titles, as they are different.

4. Story introductions - Most of the stories have an introduction, some multiple pages long. I assume I should add them.

Thanks for the input. Dave888 18:38, 13 February 2021 (EST)

If it is graphic content only, it is probably not eligible at all and the whole anthology may need to be deleted. We have a discussion going over in R&S if we want to allow graphic adaptations - so hold off of adding contents here for a bit until it is decided what the rules will be. If they get added then yes - notes will need to distinguish them. And adaptations don’t get varianted - only translations and differences in author and title credits. Annie 18:53, 13 February 2021 (EST)
I'll hold off until I hear. For what it's worth, this appears to be horror, and it appears to be a mix of adaptions of existing material and new works that are graphic novel style stories. Lots of authors that are genre, like Robert Bloch, Neal Barrett Jr, Charles de Lint, Michael Moorcock, etc. Thanks.
Dave888 20:57, 13 February 2021 (EST)
i took a quick look. There are 600-700 titles with the [graphic format]. Mostly English, things like "Watchmen" and "The Dark Knight Returns".
Dave888 22:47, 13 February 2021 (EST)
There are exceptions under which these are allowed - authors above threshold (so all their fiction is eligible) or single stories in otherwise text publications and magazines (especially magazines) - that’s why we have the flag. If you read the Rules of acquisition, comics are specifically excluded from the definition of speculative fiction - so the ones that make it make it through the exceptions allowing non speculative fiction. And there are also a few that need deleting. Plus the flag is newish so there are more that are not marked. Old DBs with changing rules can have some entertaining properties :) Annie 00:57, 14 February 2021 (EST)
Thanks. I need to re-read the discussion on above threshold and what it means. Regardless, I will move on to something else and not do anything on "Weird Business" until I get guidance.
Dave888 11:55, 14 February 2021 (EST)

Upcoming UK tp(s?) of Star Wars: Shadow Fall

So this one is confusing me...

The database has 978-1-78746-484-1 which came via Fixer and was approved by you a few weeks ago, but there are a couple of weird things:

1. There's no cover image. Looking in the edit history, it looks like it was maybe submitted with a placeholder image, which seems a bit odd for something being published in less than 2 months from submission, and which already had a cover from prior hc/ebook pubs (so it's not like they were waiting on an artist or something).

2. It looks like the placeholder image was maybe removed in a second edit, but now I'm confused by the red error about the title ID not existing - is this maybe some artifact of merging/varianting titles?

I stumbled across this one because I have an alternative ISBN for a tp published by Del Rey/Cornerstone the same day: 9781529101447. If you go to the Penguin product page and click on "View more editions", you can see they (now) have two 2021 tp pubs, with the one currently in our database lacking a cover. Waterstones has that ISBN as publication abandoned, and neither Blackwells nor recognize that ISBN. (I'm not sure about Amazon, as they reworked their UI a couple of weeks ago, that makes it harder - IMHO - to see the different pubs for a format.)

My guess is that Waterstones is probably correct, and that the existing pub should be 0000-00-00 pub-dated, and the other one submitted. I'll do that - although it might not be for a day or so, as I want to make sure I have up-to-date data from as many sources as possible - but I thought I'd run this one by you first in case (a) you'd seen anything like this before and/or (b) had any thoughts? ErsatzCulture 16:44, 14 February 2021 (EST)

The no cover is not surprising for Arrow - it is a bit of a pattern for them 2 months out for some reason. And the red thing is indeed because of a merge - and the cover removal is normal when it is a placeholder. :) Let’s leave the one there as is for a few days - it may be an international edition - once the date passes, we will see if it crops up somewhere (the Australian and Canadian sites for example) or needs date change. Add the other one by all means. Annie 17:26, 14 February 2021 (EST)

Alternate Name/whatever challenge

Hi Annie. I am working to enter the contents of Uncanny Magazine 37. I have found an author of one story who appears to have had a name change. "The Span of his Wrist" is noted everywhere by "Lee Mandelo", on the Uncanny site, on the author's own website, etc.

"Lee Mandelo" is a new name for ISFDB - there is no current author record for the name. There is an entry for "Brit Mandelo", for the 2016 story in Uncanny Magazine, "The Sincerity Game", and for other works through 2017.

Upon looking at the author's website,, "The Sincerity Game" is listed as by Lee Mandelo.

There is an interview of Lee Mandelo at Uncanny Magazine. See, also in Issue 37. In this interview, it notes there is a 2nd story for Lee Mandelo in Uncanny. I assume this must be "The Sincerity Game".

Clearly the same person. The information I see suggests this may be a trans name change, but I am not 100% sure on this. My first assumption is that this is a case where a new alternate name is appropriate.

This person has been nominated for a number of awards, including the Hugo, Nebular and Lambda.

I know this can be a very sensitive issue, and I'd like to do the right thing.

Thanks. Dave888 00:34, 21 February 2021 (EST)

We record the names as they are used in the publication - so yes, we will create an alternate name here. Now, our rules for what names is the canonical are based on what name the author is known under in the SF community. Usually even after a name change, the old name is prevalent for awhile - although we had had some discussions fir cases like that. So record the name as printed in the magazine. Once the magazine is approved, submit the alternate name and the variant (or I can if you prefer). Annie 02:13, 21 February 2021 (EST)
Thanks. I'll take care of that, and try to take care of the alternate name and the variant. If I run into trouble, I'll check in.

Dave888 17:28, 24 February 2021 (EST)

Hi Annie. I just attempted to take care of the variant for one of the alternate name titles, and I'm hoping it works. I do have several questions about this whole area of canonical names and alternate names. 1) Submitting titles by alternate names, it seems like some of the time the whole "by canonical name (as by alternate name)" issue is taken care of automatically. Am I just fantasizing, or is this the unseen effort by a moderator, or what? 2) I am somewhat surprised that we need to variant a title's author to establish the connection in the canonical author bibliography. I am assuming there is a very good database reason this could not be taken care of when the alternate/canonical connection is made?
Best wishes.
If you are just adding a book to an existing title, the variant is already there. Otherwise - either a moderator was helping behind the scenes or someone fixed it based on the overnight cleanup report. :)
As for why - think about house pseudonyms - they are not very popular now but used to be. Even now, there is Erin Hunter for example. There is no way for the system to know which of the many authors who use that name wrote a specific book - so the DB had to allow for this scenario. And even on 1/1 pseudonyms/alternative names, there is no telling if this "John Doe" you just added a book from is actually the pseudonym for the canonical we know about or a brand new John Doe who needs his own record (see Erin Hunter again) or if it is not a new author who is now using a house/joined pseudonym that needs a new canonical attached and not just being sent to the one we already know about. So we create all variants manually as opposed to allowing the system to guess and then hope that someone will fix it when the system makes a mistake. It is a lot easier to monitor the ones that are NOT created than to need to check every single one made in a day to make sure that the system did not create something it should have not. Hope this makes sense. Annie 17:08, 28 February 2021 (E
Annie, thanks for the explanation on both issues. On the first issue, I'll continue to monitor this and do the variant thing to connect stories when needed. Especially on the 2nd issue, that is the kind of thing I was expecting. At the same time, I am surprised that you can't variant/whatever all of the titles of an alternate name by connecting to the canonical name using the record number for the canonical name. I'm sure there is some database reason for this.Dave888 18:40, 28 February 2021 (EST)
It had been discussed. Part of the challenge is that even in this case, you do not always want to create new parents - sometimes the canonical author already has the title and you just need for variant into it. That happens a lot when an author changes their name or when one adds translations. So it comes down to priorities - what is worth developing and if the effort is better used elsewhere. It can be done eventually but it will lead to a lot of titles that then need to be merged once it is used. Plus especially with translations, the parent will need a new title and language and a year even if it needs to be crated anew. And then there are the serials which get varianted into complete works and the split novels. Varianting like the one you just encountered is just a single usecase in what that feature is used for. And that complexity makes it very hard (and somewhat dangerous) to attempt automation - people click on things they don’t always understand so having an easy button can end up with a lot of cleanup. Not that I won’t love having one for such cases but... :) Annie 19:45, 28 February 2021 (EST)
One more varianting/summary bibliography question. Upon looking at Brit Mandelo, there are two entries for the title I just varianted for Lee Mandelo, one for "The Span of his Wrist" and one for "The Span of his Wrist (only as by Lee Mandelo)" These are the same thing, and I'm pretty sure there should not be two entries. I suspect you told me I needed to do something more here, but can't remember or find what that was. Do I need to merge those two entries? Thanks.Dave888 11:56, 1 March 2021 (EST)
Yep. You could have used Option 1 on the varianting but as you created a new title, now they need to be merged. :) Annie 11:58, 1 March 2021 (EST)
Done. Thanks for the guidance.Dave888 23:50, 1 March 2021 (EST)

One more trans "deadnaming" question. I just saw the recent controversy and outcome on "deadnaming" transgender people at Wookiepedia, as reported at File770. Is this question coming back to ISFDB, or is this still settled at the moment? Just curious. Thanks.Dave888 13:26, 31 March 2021 (EDT)

If you want to change how we record canonical names, please open a CS discussion. The current rules had not changed in ages - we use as canonical the name of the author as they are known in the field (which usually means the name under which they have the most titles). Annie 13:38, 31 March 2021 (EDT)
Actually, I don't want to change how we record canonical names. I was just curious if there was any obvious discussion about this point, especially among the moderators. I think our current practice is practical, but at the same time I can see it becoming potentially controversial in the future. The main reason I asked was that the recent "Wookipedia" example was in another user-edited online site, and the category seemed not unlike ISFDB in some ways. Thanks.Dave888 13:42, 31 March 2021 (EDT)
We don't have a secret place for discussions :) If there is a discussion, it will be in CS or R&S or in Moderator's forum - all of them are publicly visible. Annie 13:43, 31 March 2021 (EDT)
That is what I thought, but I was lazy and figured you would know. Thanks.Dave888 13:48, 31 March 2021 (EDT)
Nothing since last time we talked (that I had seen anyway) :) Annie 17:05, 31 March 2021 (EDT)

Sense of Wonder edit question

Hi. I am attempting to add titles to the Leigh Grossman anthology "Sense of Wonder", ebook version. I am starting with the new titles that are not already in ISFDB. Upon attempting to submit a batch of them, I'm getting an error message "only MAGAZINE and FANZINE publications can contain Editor titles". I am sure this is something simple and obvious, but I do not understand what I am doing wrong. Thanks. Dave888 19:48, 6 March 2021 (EST)

Check very carefully all the Essays you are trying to add - introductions and so on . One of them is marked as an editor by mistake - non fiction pieces inside books are called essays (except for interviews and genre reviews which have their own types and sections) but it is very easy to mess the two types. The Type Editor is reserved for magazine/fanzine title records and is not used for editorial essays. In short - unless you are editing a magazine/fanzine, do not use the Editor type and inside of these two, it is used for the main title (for novels both the pub and the title type is novel; for these two the pub is magazine/fanzine; the title is editor. :) Annie 20:40, 6 March 2021 (EST)
You nailed it. I had missed my mistake on one of the entries. Thanks!Dave888 11:18, 7 March 2021 (EST)
Anytime! Common issue. :) Before the check was added, we had to go back and clean these when they got missed and approved as editors - between mistakes (2 e-s on the list - my finger slips occasionally as well) and people thinking that EDITOR should be used for editorial essays, we had a lot of cleanup almost daily. So the check was added :) Annie 14:59, 7 March 2021 (EST)

One More "Sense of Wonder" question, which is more general. This is a pretty huge work, with 375 title entries overall. I am doing the new titles in batches, just to break it up a little bit. I'll be doing the import for the existing titles (and there are more than a few) separately. I assume that I should not submit an additional batch of new titles until the last batch has been approved. Do I also need to do the import sequentially and not in parallel with the new titles? Thanks.Dave888 11:39, 9 March 2021 (EST)

Technically having a few of those at the same time will not be a problem UNLESS they clash or a title get merged somewhere. Considering that these require a lot of work though and not just clicks, redoing them when something goes wrong is a pain so I would submit one batch at a time and then proceed with the next post approval. Annie 11:46, 9 March 2021 (EST)
Thanks. I suspected as much. So, it sounds like I could do some submittals in parallel, but there is substantially more risk if there are challenges. With that, I'll continue with doing them one by one.Dave888 12:31, 9 March 2021 (EST)
One more question on titles. In addition to the fiction titles, there are author bios and other essays galore in this volume. It's clear for the author bio entries, that I can't just put "James H. Schmitz", but that I need to put "James H. Schmitz (Sense of Wonder)" to differentiate from the other "James H. Schmitz" entries. There are also many, many other essays on more general subjects of interest, like "Time Travel" for instance. Upon checking, I see that there are multiple existing essays with that title, and so my entry is "Time Travel (Sense of Wonder)". There are a number of essays that are so far unique in name that I have not added "(Sense of Wonder)" to yet. I am wondering if I should be adding "(Sense of Wonder)" to all of these other essays, just for consistency, or only those where there are duplicates. Your thoughts would be helpful. Thanks.Dave888 12:46, 10 March 2021 (EST)
It does not matter if we have tons of the same named essays in the DB, the real test is if the same author has an essay with the same name. For the standard titles, we won't even check that - Introduction and so on are so common so we always add to it. I would not add the name of the book to an essay called "Time Travel" quite honestly - unless the author already has an essay under that title. Although IF most essays have the book name, I may decide to. Annie 13:26, 10 March 2021 (EST)

Audio book contents

Hi. Occasionally I notice that there is an audio book version for a title I am editing that is not yet in ISFDB. I am mostly not able to find any specific TOC for the audio book. Do we just assume that it has the same contents, or what? I have also seen one or two where the audio content was slightly different; for instance, on at least once "Best of the Year" anthology, the audio version omitted some of the supplemental essays (Honorable Mentions, say) and included only the stories. One obvious option would be to add an audio book version of the title and say nothing about the contents. Thanks.Dave888 14:40, 8 March 2021 (EST)

If you know the contents and feel like adding them, you add them. If you do not ( or you are not sure) either leave it empty or add the ones you are sure about (the stories for example) and add the {{incomplete}} template like I did here for example. If you are importing from another pub (or cloning), before submitting put "del" or "delete" as the page number on the ones you want to be ejected as they are not there in this version. Then either a moderator will see these when they approve and kick them out or if they do not, you submit a removeTitle post approval :) Annie 14:48, 8 March 2021 (EST)
Thanks.Dave888 15:15, 8 March 2021 (EST)


Good morning from France. I suppose that other moderators are waiting for you to tackle this waiting submission. I've located what seems to my russian-ignoring eyes the original publication here. As I' don't want to create some horrors to a native reader, I'd prefer that you take charge of the varianting (and creating of authors and all the rest). Note that I've miscopied the ISBN in my submission (I'll change it later). I also have doubts about the cover artists (the french publication implies that they are two of them), can you confirm this information from original sources? Thanks AlainLeBris 02:24, 10 March 2021 (EST)

Good morning (well, almost evening there but morning here :) )
Is that essay really an essay or is it an interview? The Russian novel has an interview in every edition I am seeing (the title is "When we run out of oil").
No credit for the artist anywhere on the Russian sites that I can find but I will do some more checks in a bit.
You can fix the ISBN now and unless we need to convert that essay, I think we are all good here :) Let me know if you have any questions/concerns. Annie 10:43, 10 March 2021 (EST)
Thanks. The essay is IMHO really an essay and not an interview, it's a kind of letter from the author to the readers, it starts with "Chers amis" (Dear friends). AlainLeBris 11:47, 10 March 2021 (EST)-
So it is not the Russian interview from the originals :) All set then. Let me know if I can assist with anything else :) Annie 11:55, 10 March 2021 (EST)

A curious Orbit UK ISBN

A review of an upcoming Megan E. O'Keefe novella came up in my Twitter feed earlier today, and I hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere before now, so I thought I might be able to claim all the glory for adding it. Unfortunately, you and Fixer beat me to it, way back at the start of Feb :-( However, there's something a bit odd about the UK version, that I'd like to pick your brains on...

Searching for the author on the Hachette and Little Brown UK sites, I found this pub with the ISBN 9780356517148. However, neither Amazon UK nor Kobo (GB) know that ISBN if you search for it. Kobo (GB) lists the US ISBN, but Amazon UK has a different ASIN (B08TBMYYQP) from the US one. FWIW, doing a general Google search for that ISBN finds no matches, as if they don't crawl Hachette's sites?

I'm inclined to add this as a separate UK pub, but with a note that (currently) the ISBN isn't recognized outside of Hachette's sites. However, I know there have been Orbit UK<->US weirdnesses before, so I thought I'd ask if this sort of thing rings any bells, or if you have any better ideas on how to handle this? Pub date isn't until March 30th, so it may just be easiest to wait a couple of weeks in case things change?

BTW, the entry here for the US pub doesn't have a cover image, I'm guessing because Amazon US didn't have one at the time? Amazon UK has one though, if Amazon US is still lagging: ErsatzCulture 11:27, 11 March 2021 (EST)

Me and Fixer are very good at what we are doing on US publications - especially major authors and publishers. :). Yup, no cover when I added it - I added it now. :)
The reason we carry ASINs on ebooks is exactly because the ISBNs are inconsistently applied and linked (and the direct links are based on ASIN). If a paper book is there, they will often add the ISBN of the ebook as an alternative so the search gets it but not always. An ebook only since they stopped using the ISBNs at all? 50/50 chance...
A 356 ISBN is UK's Orbit so yes, there is a second ebook out there so I would add it based on the Hachette site and with the UK ASIN. This is not unusual, I won't even add a note on the ISBN being unrecognized at this point but up to you. We can check post-publication to see what happened but I would add it now if I were you (or if Fixer gets the ASIN in a few weeks/months). Annie 11:53, 11 March 2021 (EST)


Hello Annie. Re this publication. I've corrected the error and merged the cover art title to match the other Sphere editions with the same artwork however I am puzzled as to why it said "Sphere Science Ficiton Classics" was a new series when that series already exists and that specific edition seems to be in a series all on it's own. --Mavmaramis 05:12, 12 March 2021 (EST)

You could have responded on your page - I am monitoring. :) Thanks for taking care of that. Annie 08:18, 12 March 2021 (EST)
Yes I realise that but it was more in relation to the issue with the series that seened to be very odd to me. Another inconsistancy that occassionally makes me wonder if I am going mad. It isn't an issue that I am fully aware or competant of knowing how to correct. --Mavmaramis 09:58, 12 March 2021 (EST)
Ah, sorry missed this. It is because you spelled "Ficiton" and not "Fiction" and I also missed it last night :) Fixed now. Annie 10:20, 12 March 2021 (EST)
I'm going to blame my deteriorating eyestight/bad typing for that. Thanks. --Mavmaramis 13:04, 12 March 2021 (EST)
I did not see it either so... :) Happens. I should stop doing things that late. Annie 13:21, 12 March 2021 (EST)

Another alternate/canonical name question

Hi. I just realized that one of the "Sense of Wonder" authors, Wendy Gay Pearson, has existing entries for both "Wendy Gay Pearson" and "Wendy Pearson" in ISFDB. Looking at the two different bio/publication entries at Western University, Canada, this is clearly the same person. There are a similar number of entries for each name, 8 from 2008-13, and 11 from 2001-06. It's not at all jumping out to me which should be the canonical name, but they need to be connected. I would appreciate your guidance. Thanks.Dave888 17:58, 13 March 2021 (EST)

In such cases, when the numbers are so close, I usually go with the longer form of the name as canonical unless a SF encyclopaedia or something like that has it differently. :) 11:18, 15 March 2021 (EDT)
Thanks. There is no entry for Wendy Gay Pearson (or Wendy Pearson) is the SF Encylopedia, although I found the name cited in two other entries. I also found "Wendy Pearson" cited in one entry. I'll go with Wendy Gay Pearson as the canonical name.Dave888 12:31, 16 March 2021 (EDT)

IV or VI

SFJuggler fixed Jason Lives. My pending list still has your name attached. It's not necessary anymore. I was right. --Username 11:40, 14 March 2021 (EDT)

Being right this time does not change the fact that we have a process when the book is primary verified: check with the active PV(s); when they are not available and/or active we change with a note in the Notes explaining what was changed post verification and why. That ensures that we do not lose data and we mark the source of the data properly (in a PVd book, unless otherwise stated, the source is the actual book the PV holds).
You can cancel your own submission or I can reject it for you. Annie 11:17, 15 March 2021 (EDT)
Title was changed but series # wasn't (it still said 4) so I fixed that. --Username 13:42, 15 March 2021 (EDT)
Which was always going to be a separate change anyway :) I did not handle the other update. Approved that last one and we should be all set with this one. Annie 13:44, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

Format for SFWA Bulletin Issues

Annie, issues in the data base for The SWFA Bulletin beginning in 1987 are given as quarto format. But they are slightly smaller, 7.5" x 10.5". I have most issues between 1983 and 1990, and they are all the same format, but I haven't entered them yet. Do you think I should use the quarto format? If not, what? Bob 23:14, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

The rule with the magazine formats is "closest format you can find" or to quote the help page: "Note: If a magazine is between the sizes of these categories, use the one with the closest description, and add a note in the record. Small variations do not need to be noted.".
Quarto (8.5" × 11") is the closest (the next closest is the classical pulp at 6.5" × 9.5" but it is 1 inch away on both sides as opposed to the 1 and 0.5 on quarto. So I would use quarto but always add a note: "Size: 7.5" x 10.5, entered as quarto as the closest available format, saddle-stapled" (or words to that effect - if it is saddle-stapled indeed). Especially if it is saddle-stapled, I'd stay with quarto. Hope this makes some sense :) Annie 23:22, 15 March 2021 (EDT)
I think that makes sense, and I'll give the size in the notes for these mags. Earlier issues did have true quarto dimensions (or octavo in some cases); I was just concerned that there should be some differentiation between the newer issues and the older ones. Bob 11:15, 16 March 2021 (EDT)
The in-between formats are very annoying indeed :) Annie 12:30, 16 March 2021 (EDT)

By canonical name (as by alternate name) question

Hi Annie. I'm sorry to be slow here, but I am struggling with something that I know you have advised me on. For the "Sense of Wonder", I have quite a few titles that are currently entered "as by Leigh Ronald Grossman" that need to be revised to "by Leigh Grossman (as by Leigh Ronald Grossman)" to ensure the entries show up for both names. You have advised me that I need to use the "Make this title a Variant" process for this, and have further suggested that it would be better if I used Option 1 to do this. I am struggling with this; Option 1 is asking for Parent # - I rather assume this would be the parent number for the title itself. What am I missing? Thanks.Dave888 14:57, 16 March 2021 (EDT)

You use Option 1 when the title already exists on the canonical list. For example "This book" is reprinted under Name after being first out under CanonicalName. Then you have a record on both pages - so you connect them when you add the book under Name (if you use option 2, you will create a new title on Canonical list -- and we will need to merge with the existing one.
But if there is no existing record on the canonical name page, you can only use Option 2. Hope this makes it clearer? Annie 15:07, 16 March 2021 (EDT)
I'm still struggling a bit. Let me give you a concrete example, and please tell me if I have it. One of these titles within "Sense of Wonder" is "Karel Čapek (Sense of Wonder)", which is an author bio for karel Capek and is title record #2841855. It is showing up as "by Leigh Ronald Grossman", when I need it to show up in "Sense of Wonder" as "by Leigh Grossman (As by Leigh Ronald Grossman)" for it to show up appropriately both under Leigh Ronald Grossman and Leigh Grossman.
Option 1 requires the parent record number, which I assume is #2841855. Do I have it, or am I still confused? Please accept my apologies - I usually think I am fairly quick to get things, but this one has been problematic for me for some reason. Thanks.Dave888 18:41, 16 March 2021 (EDT)
Dave, stop apologizing :)
This one is confusing because the initial entry for this essay is wrong. See Karel Čapek (Sense of Wonder). It is already under Leigh Grossman - the only one from these essays credited under that name and not the longer one. To become what you want, you need the following:
  • Change the author on this one to Leigh Ronald Grossman. This is the entry in the book - it needs to be as printed in the book - in this case taking the author form from the book itself.
  • Now create a parent for it with Option 2 swapping the name Leigh Ronald Grossman with Leigh Grossman. You cannot use Option 1 UNLESS you already have an existing title under each of the names.
However - before you go and do that, look at the number of titles. Leigh Ronald Grossman has a LOT more titles than Leigh Grossman so switching the canonical name around actually makes sense. It does not make sense to make 150 variants when we can reverse the pseudonym and then only need to make 13 (and break the ones that are done). Do you want me to reverse the pseudonym, cleanup the created variants and then let you do the needed variants in the other direction (or I can do them as well)?
Does this help make it clearer? Annie 18:54, 16 March 2021 (EDT)
yes, this is clearer. I do agree that a better canonical name for him is "Leigh Ronald Grossman" anyway, and I sure like the idea of only dealing with 13 vs 150. I was wondering about that, and I might have asked you about that up front if I'd been smarter. If you can stand it, I would like to try to reverse the pseudonym and then try to go from there on my own. I can see myself getting partway through this and then asking for help. On the other hand, if you are tired of my neediness on this kind of thing, feel free to do what you want to do and let me know what is left. I'm good either way.Dave888 19:06, 16 March 2021 (EDT)
All yours :) I am here if you need to bounce something by me :) Let's start with the easy part - breaking the current pseudonym and creating it in the other direction. Then you deal with the titles that were not varianted already. When you get to the ones that need full reversal, I have a handy trick to share that cleans them in a single edit per title. Step by step. :) Annie 19:13, 16 March 2021 (EDT)
Several more "Sense of Wonder"-related alternate author name questions. I have 2 author names that are associated with this book that have other entries under alternate names, Wendy Gay Pearson (Wendy Pearson) and Leigh Ronald Grossman (Leigh Grossman). I believe I need to use "Make Variant" to ensure the alternate name entries show up in the canonical name bibliography, with the "as by alternate name". 1) You have mentioned that I should use Option 1 for the "Make Variant". Option 1 requires the parent title record number. I assume this is for pertinent fiction title record number? 2) Do I need to do this individually for each of the alternate name titles? I assume so. 3) Is there anything else about this that I need to know? My apologies again - I feel like this is another area where I have really been slow to get it. Thanks.Dave888 17:00, 18 March 2021 (EDT)
1. You use option 1 only if the title you need as a parent already exists on the canonical author page. Think of Stephen King's Richard Bachman novels - for example Thinner. If someone publishes it in a new book with the title "Thinner Again" (new title never used before) and author Richard Bachman, if you use Option 2 on the varianting, you will create a new record for "Thinner" by Stephen King and we will need to merge it into the existing book later. Instead you find the actual novel ID 513 and use Option 1 with ID 513. Same if the new publication is "Отслабване" by Стивън Кинг (another pseudonym - this would be a translation). Does this make it easier to understand? Option 2 is applicable for reprints and translations usually; new/original works will always use Option 1 because the canonical author has no record for this title yet. When I mentioned to use it, you were varianting reprints :) If you are not sure, forget about Option 1 for now. go with Option 2, we can work on that later
2. Every title, one by one. :)
3. Nah, you are good. Annie 17:42, 18 March 2021 (EDT)

Second Opinion

Would you mind looking at this conversation? Hauck and Bluesman were pretty diligent about their submissions (though human like the rest of us). I'm assuming that there actually were two separate covers with different external prices. We could enter two separate records (in which case I will reject the submission, clone the existing, and use the data Mavmaramis submitted so they don't need to repeat their work) or leave as a single record and add the disparity to the notes. Thoughts? -- JLaTondre (talk) 15:52, 18 March 2021 (EDT)

That is extremely weird - see also the usage of Eire vs Rep of Ireland in the two sets of prices and look at the mess that Sphere and Sphere Books are in these years - see the ISBNs on books using Eire in 1978 and 1977. So I wonder if whatever the reason for splitting of the two publishers is what causes this discrepancy - and then our split is as always messed up...
And the whole set of prices do not make sense as a whole. The non-pound ones are close to a November book but that late in the year the pound one should be 0.85 and not 0.65. The prices we have now with the 0.65, are consistent with the books form earlier in the year here and over in Sphere. Something is off.
Looking at the image - there is something on top of where the UK price is. Can we ask Mavmaramis to confirm that is is 0.65 and not 0.85 (or if you can see that back cover better than I can maybe you can spot it?). Because IF that turns out to be 0.85, all of the prices will be consistent with other books from late in the year - and then we most likely do have two separate printings (or maybe 1 printing, 2 separate covers - one printed later to allow the increase of the prices for unsold and unbound books?)? If THAT is the case, then all this will make sense. Including the Eire/Rep. of Ireland usage and the double set of prices for a second printing.
I do not know enough about Sphere and Sphere Books in the 1970s to know how possible that may be... but that is the only way I can see this happening... Annie 16:39, 18 March 2021 (EDT)
So in short - two covers with different prices (possibly including the UK one?) is the only thing that does make sense - sorry for the long note - wanted to put on paper how I got to that. :) Annie 17:42, 18 March 2021 (EDT)
Well, this did not help - the UK price is obliterated :( . Considering the Eire vs Rep of Ireland and the rest of the stuff, I think the cleanest way would be to clone, put the new prices in a different publication, add notes to both explaining the discrepancy despite both being Second Printing and ask Mavmaramis to move his PV (and sort out all the covers). I really cannot see both Herve and Bill missing all the prices (not totally impossible but very very unlikely). Not sure what else we can do. Annie 04:49, 19 March 2021 (EDT)

The Curse of Jonathan Matthew

I don't understand rejection of my edit for this book; cover on ISFDB is a totally wrong one for a non-fiction book about summer jobs. I provided correct cover and cover artist from this copy: [2]. --Username 07:58, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

Apparently I forgot to unreject before going to bed - the double mix of OCLC and Amazon is amusing and tripped me for a second and then apparently I forgot to fix it. Let me see if I can puzzle out where the artist is credited in the book - as you keep ignoring any request to provide proper sourcing :) Annie 09:47, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

I already entered the name of the artist in my edit for this book, so type that name into the link's search box. --Username 09:55, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

So... using the ID from the image you posted here, find the book first, then do the search inside to find the list with the artist name, then grab the proper link here. Of course, why not - it would have been too easy to just post the link directly. :) Approved and note fixed. :) Annie 10:30, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

Sense of Wonder - missing subtitle

Hi Annie. One last question on "Sense of Wonder". When I came on the scene, the title I found in the title record was "Sense of Wonder". The title in the publication records was also "Sense of Wonder" for both tp and ebook. Upon looking a bit further, I found that the actual title is "Sense of Wonder: A Century of Science Fiction". I can see two choices: 1) leave it as is, but note the subtitle in the Notes, or 1) edit all 3 entries (title and both publication records) to include the subtitle. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks.

Dave888 11:23, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
Talk to the other PV and you two make a decision together? :) If the subtitle is on the title page, we record it usually. I would add it in this case. Annie 12:44, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
Thanks for the input. I have queried the other PV, and I'll see what I hear. If the decision is to do it, is there anything more complex to this than editing both the publication record and the two title records for the title?Dave888 14:32, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
No cover and no interior art so nope, that is all :) If you had covers or interior art, you would have needed to change their titles as well. But that is it. Annie 14:43, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
When posting on people's pages, please post into their Talk pages, not their User pages. I moved the one you left over for Sjmathis‎; to the correct page. :) Annie 15:09, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
Sorry about that. I missed that, and should have figured it out, but will not do that again. Thanks.Dave888 16:21, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
No worries - almost everyone does that at least once ;) Annie 16:23, 24 March 2021 (EDT)

Non-Genre Editors

Hi Annie - I believe you are incorrect about the requirement that in order to list actual editors of non-genre publications (in addition to the "Editors of..." Editor), that they be genre editors/known authors. the help page has no such requirement. I had rejected edits of Taweiss attempting to remove such editors with a note that it is not required to do so and a link to the help page. Today I noticed that the edits had been re-issued and approved and I subsequently discovered the discussion where Taweiss was advised to delete them. I've asked them if they can add the editors back in. If you are aware of some other standard excluding such editors, let me know, but it would odd since the specific instructions say that adding the known editor, while optional, is allowed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:18, 24 March 2021 (EDT)

We interpret the word "optionally" differently. I do not think that we should be adding (and encourage the adding) of the editors that are not from the field - that defeats the whole point of using "Editors of". I will be happy to take this over to R&S and hash it out -- so we can clarify when we include them and if the agreement is that we want to add non-genre editors, I will personally fix these. Yes - I know they are allowed but the practice had always been not to - at least in any magazine I had seen that uses the Editors of - even when they are very well known. Annie 18:23, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
We can start an R&S discussion if you'd like. I can give this example, but I'm probably the one who added Smith to all those records. To me, the plain meaning of "optional" is that entering isn't required, but if the editor wants to do it, they may. I certainly wouldn't delete any data that another editor had added at their option. Perhaps we should have left The Dragon as a genre magazine. Both Locus1 and Miller/Contento list it. They even have shell records for issues without any fiction. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:48, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
Genre magazines have their complete contents eligible for addition - that is the difference between genre and non-genre publications... So Dragon is definitely not a genre publication under our own definition. Which makes it non-genre by definition. So it should be treated so - we do not have a "semi-genre but still leaving most of the contents ineligible" type. Which is how Dragon had been treated. I will start an R&S discussion on the "Editors of" situation. Annie 19:06, 24 March 2021 (EDT)

(unindent) Reading the linked Help page, it would appear that Ron is right. The text says:

  • If the actual name of the editor(s) of a non-genre periodical is known, their names may be listed as co-editors along with "Editors of PERIODICAL NAME"; and
  • If the actual editor is known with reasonable certainty, you may optionally enter the name(s) of the editor(s) as co-editors, but leave "Editors of PERIODICAL NAME" as one of the editors in any case.

There doesn't appear to be a requirement for editor names to be known SF personalities. I haven't done much with non-genre magazines lately, so I am not up to date on the intricacies of current usage.

If memory serves, back when this Help text was debated, there were three separate concerns. The first one was the difficulty of identifying the editors of obscure non-genre periodicals. The second one was the desire to make all issues of the same magazine appear on the same Summary page. The third one was the desire to avoid creating Summary pages for editors with no genre connections.

The current version of the Help page doesn't address the third concern, but I don't remember whether it was a conscious choice. We could try to find the original discussion and any follow-up discussions that may have been held.

Also, the two Help sentences that I quoted above may need to be consolidated. They are duplicative at best and provide different guidance re: "reasonable certainty" at worst. Ahasuerus 19:18, 24 March 2021 (EDT)

I started a R&S discussion. For most magazines we had followed the "add the "Editors of" and leave it alone" policy. Why do we even bother with "Editors of" instead of using our usual "unknown" as we do for books if known editors can be added - while old magazines had had issues, editors in the last few decades are almost universally known (and never recorded here except in a few special cases)? Showing up on the same page is even more valid concern for Genre magazines and yet we do not use anything to achieve that... - and we have the series pages to show them together now. I am not arguing that the help page is open to allow it but when something does not make sense, I think we need to find out why we are doing it to start with... I have no trouble changing how I enter non-genre magazines (and will even redo the Dragon ones that started all that) if that is what we agree on. But let's figure out what we want to do and why first. Annie 19:28, 24 March 2021 (EDT)

Locus 690 Question

Hi Annie. I see that Locus #690 had a "Approved Publication Update Submission" by you in it's history after my original NewPub submission. Is there something I need to do differently in the future, or is this an inevitable Moderator process, or what? My apologies if this is something you have already coached me on. I did not mention it to you, but I am a long-time Locus subscriber and reader. I don't keep them forever, but usually for a few years, so I certainly have at least the last 4-5 years. Seeing that there are holes in Locus issues and Locus contents, I'm planning on getting Locus up to date. Thanks and best wishes.Dave888 13:05, 31 March 2021 (EDT)

Nope, nothing major.
There was an extra comma in the title - between the number and the month - see how the rest here look. Most magazines will have the comma but Locus is handled a bit differently for some reason so we follow the lead. :) The other changes were capitalization ("The" instead of "the" in both interviews) - and while I was there, I brought it into the yearly record - that is always done as a second step. It was a good submission :) Just a few cosmetic issues. :)
Have fun. I have Locus on my long list of things to get to... so if you want to update them, have fun! :) Annie 13:17, 31 March 2021 (EDT)
Thanks. I try to pay attention to all of that stuff, and usually take screen captures of the edits on a similar issue to compare to, but I appreciate the help. I will have fun.Dave888 13:21, 31 March 2021 (EDT)
There was a later merge - my edit actually has a moderator note: "capita;ization and making it look like the rest :)" but it is hidden if it goes into the red table for missing ID. Which is why I did not leave you a note. Let me check if we can get that to show up on the top so it is clearer. Annie 17:08, 31 March 2021 (EDT)

Adam Blade / Glaki, Spear of the Depths possible US/UK confusion?

Thought I'd try to make some progress on these, but didn't get very far before encountering something weird :-(

This late 2020 title has 2 pubs, both purportedly US ones from "Orchard Books / Scholastic". However I was confused that my tools matched them to UK pubs, except for the Kindle ebook, which turns out to have a different ASIN on Amazon UK. (Hachette UK links for the tp and book.)

Any chance you could have a look at the Amazon US previews for this, to see if they are genuinely US pubs, or if they're gr[ae]y imports? The Amazon UK preview doesn't show the copyright page, but does show a title page with a couple of URLs. I'm loathe to change these existing records to have UK publisher, price etc, given that they're relatively recent. Thanks :-) ErsatzCulture 09:02, 1 April 2021 (EDT)

Apparently today is the day to finish sorting out all the misplaced books in the Orchards that I had been chipping at slowly. :) These are the Hachette books. Fixed now but give me a few hours to shift the rest of the misplaced ones and to add the double ASINs on the ebooks. Annie 09:58, 1 April 2021 (EDT)
No worries - any excuse to put off looking at the Adam Blades for another week :-) ErsatzCulture 13:08, 1 April 2021 (EDT)
All Orchards were sorted out. There are 2 more books left under a third publisher which is the same as the US one - I need to talk to a verifier there and figure out what we want to do. The UK ones are all sorted; most of the ebook ones even got their double ASINs (UK/US distribution of the same ebook by Hachette's imprints).Annie 13:40, 1 April 2021 (EDT)

Apollo & Apollo / Head of Zeus

These should probably be merged? Apollo, Apollo / HoZ. They only have 2 titles and 3 pubs between them, all via Fixer, so it doesn't seem like something anyone else will know/care about.

(Spotted whilst trying to work out whether this should be submitted or not - the lack of any reviews makes it difficult to tell whether the references to ghosts are literal or figurative...) ErsatzCulture

I thought I got these two sorted when I found the latest book there. Merged. As for the book - if you add it, add a note "It is unclear if the ghosts in this story are speculative or used as a metaphor.". I would skip this one if I need to make the decision - feels like non-speculative ghosts to me. Annie 10:29, 1 April 2021 (EDT)
Yeah, I did consider doing that - and will add a note along those lines if/when I do submit that title - but for now I think I'll wait until I see some reviews that might hopefully clarify the subject matter. ErsatzCulture 13:08, 1 April 2021 (EDT)

The (perhaps aptly named?) "Tempus Fury"

Me again, hopefully the last time I'll be bugging you today...

I suspect this pub is probably not coming out on the date currently recorded. Impressively, I have 4 different pub dates scraped from 4 different sources, at different times:

  • Amazon UK on 2020-12-24 : said it would be published on 2021-04-06
  • Titan Books (yes, them again) on 2020-10-29 : said it would be published on 2021-01-05
  • Waterstones on 2021-04-01 (today) : says it will be published on 2021-06-08
  • on 2020-12-24 : said it would be published on 2025-12-01.

Right now, the first 3 are all reporting the June 8th date, but now thinks it's April 6th... if it wasn't for that last one, I'd submit an edit to make it use 2021-06-08, but it strikes me that consulting you for a second opinion might be advisable? FWIW, I have just checked B&N who also show June 8th.

An ideal candidate for the { { WatchDate } } template? ErsatzCulture 17:40, 1 April 2021 (EDT)

Had I mentioned how much I love Titan lately? I changed the date, added the publisher link and added the template. This is what we got it for... Annie 18:28, 1 April 2021 (EDT)

Rejected edits/forced

I had two edits that show as rejected with a comment of “Forced” for title merges, but the merge was completed Is there something I did wrong? TAWeiss 10:18, 5 April 2021 (EDT)

Forced means that the edit is not viable - a title does not exist anymore. In this case, someone did the merges before you - so when your edits were up for review, they were invalid. When that happens, all a moderator can do is to force reject. Annie 11:08, 5 April 2021 (EDT)
Got it. Thanks! TAWeiss 16:39, 5 April 2021 (EDT)

Xanth questions

Annie, please take a look at this when you have a few minutes Xanth questions. John Scifibones 11:32, 11 April 2021 (EDT)

Resurrection, Inc.

Annie, please look at submission 4962707. Help me make it look as professional as possible. Will be sending the link to the publisher Scifibones 17:21, 12 April 2021 (EDT)

Here it is. Did some changes. I need you to supply information - see where I added the two formats that did get published? Add the third one in there as well with a note at the end (never published). Feel free to edit anything else again while adding this. I am around to approve when you submit. And I am thinking a bit what else we can move around in the meantime. Annie 17:58, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
Also - is it just a single introduction by all 3 Janet Berliner and Bentley Little and David B. Silva or are there separate introductions? Annie 17:59, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
I like your editing, I didn't know you could nest unnumbered lists. Three brief, but, separate introductions. I will submit an edit for that and the never published edition. Scifibones 18:24, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
There is only one title for the Introduction. However, each author's comments are separate and signed. No page break. I'll leave it as one while you think. Scifibones 18:34, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
The full Introduction title reads "Introduction to the Tenth Anniversary Edition". I should not have shortened it. sorry. Do we want a statement first hardcover edition? That everything I can think of. Scifibones 18:44, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
I'd split them especially because the copyright page splits them and because they each wrote their part, right? OK, I did a few more changes. Maybe add a note explaining that three introductions share a title but are separate segments? I can be convinced to collapse them into 1 again IF they are indeed a single article? A few more things:
  • I do not see a source for the November in the date or for 1999 really (we do not date based on copyright)? We need a source for this dating. 1999 I can see on the publisher site and that we can add. But November?
  • Add a page number on which the novel starts so it can go under the essays. And fix the essays pages if they happen to start on next pages (page breaks are not required). Annie 19:06, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
I originally had the date attributed to Amazon. I took it out because I left a msg for Dave to confirm it for me. Hasn't got back to me yet. I'm sure he will tomorrow. I would rather attribute it to him than Amazon. I notice you removed the capitalization of sterling edition on the title page quote. Inside quotes, I try to put exactly what is in the book. Same comment for slip case. It is properly two words. Inside the quotes I misspelled it as it is on the copyright page. On my note I had spelled it correctly. Were you just trying to make them match? I'll hold off submitting till after you respond. Scifibones 19:19, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
Well, it will need to temporarily be until better source is found. As it is now, it will need to be 1999-00-00 if Amazon is not used. So either change the dates or add back.
Not me on Sterling - I had not touched that line. I combined the different copyright lines; the very first line had been like that since the beginning. Go ahead and fix whatever needs fixing :) Annie 19:32, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
I guess it was me. I just looked up slipcase, It is one word, I must be getting senile. This should do it unless/until the publisher confirms the publication date. It was a lot of your time, but, it will reflect well on the ISFDB. Scifibones 19:54, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
No worries. If I am around, I am happy to assist. :) Annie 19:56, 12 April 2021 (EDT)

Stanisław Lem: Dzienniki Gwiazdowe (1982 edition)

Hello, Annie. I wanted to let you know that I now have the 1982 library edition of Dzienniki Gwiazdowe. I have scanned the first nine pages (which contains both of the fictional introductions), and I have also scanned the table of contents (which appears at the end of the book). I have posted the scan at and I hope that this will help you determine whether the second introduction "Wstęp" is the same as the identically titled "Wstęp" at . Also, I noticed that the first introduction (listed at ) "Przedmowa" in the 1982 edition is signed with a different form of Lem's fictional pseudonym. It uses the name "Astral Sternu Tarantoga" rather than "Professor A. S. Tarantoga" (as listed in the ITTDB). I don't know whether any earlier publications of this introduction used the alternate form of the name.

I hope this is some help. I will keep the book on my shelf until August (when it is due back at the library) in case you'd like to see anything else.

All good things, Michael --Main 16:27, 13 April 2021 (EDT)

Thanks! Let me finish something and will update these and ask any other questions I may have. Annie 16:48, 13 April 2021 (EDT)


Just for the fun of it, can you point me to where the information about "As the main language of the DB is English (notes, summaries and so on), the current practice is that non-English series, the English name can be added after / once the series is translated into English." is located (I didn't find it). You know that Old Europeans like me are quite touchy about issues of cultural imperialism. In this case that's exactly what's in the balance. We do not title this book Le livre de Swa / The Book of Shai nor is the series' name translated. AlainLeBris 03:05, 14 April 2021 (EDT)

That specific practice predates me even joining the site (and annoys me to no end when I work on Eastern and Central European books). Let me dig through the old discussions tomorrow and see what I can unearth - I think I remember where the discussions are. The main reason was the same that enforces the summary and notes language (namely - we are an English language DB which deals with international publications) but things had changed quite a bit in the last years so maybe that may need to be poked a bit.
By the way - even if the rename was good, I would have rejected it (or at least came over to your page to explain that we do not throw away information) and asked you to leave the English name in the notes - see here for an example. One day we may get a proper support for languages so each language shows the correct series name but for now, it’s what it is but we still should not lose information. :) Annie 03:35, 14 April 2021 (EDT)


I found something that says it's an imprint, [3], which has an article by John Russo that says: "As I write this, I'm getting ready to make a movie called HELL'S CREATION, to be distributed by Arrow Entertainment. The novel tie-in is going to be published for Halloween release by Commonwealth Publications under their Ravenmor imprint." If you don't agree then I think adding "A Ravenmor Book" to notes would be OK. I see on Russo's wiki that Hell's Creation is listed as by "Ravenmor", plus there's a book called The Sanity Ward also by that publisher which is not on ISFDB. There's no mention of Commonwealth on his page at all. --Username 21:49, 14 April 2021 (EDT)

Then it needs to be the other way around : the format is Imprint / Publisher so Ravenmor / Commonwealth Publications. As Commonwealth is not mentioned, you can even just go with Ravenmor (and then add the note on what you found about them in the Publisher notes). Either way works. :) Annie 21:53, 14 April 2021 (EDT)

A small favor

Next time you have a minute, would you mind looking at this exchange with MagicUnk? Not worried about the specific publication, only if my method and conclusions were right or wrong. I ask because I respect your opinion and you know I am trying to be an asset. You can answer on my talk page is you prefer. Thank you, John Scifibones 11:57, 16 April 2021 (EDT)

I will post on his page :) Annie 12:00, 16 April 2021 (EDT)

The Clan of the Cave Bear

I want to PV the first edition of The Clan of the Cave Bear. While the 1980-09-00 date would indicate this is it, the pub note confuses the issue. The banner on top of Chavey's talk page says he is unavailable till summer. I left a note on his regular talk page hoping he might see it. It has been a week. Thoughts? John Scifibones 17:26, 19 April 2021 (EDT)

The note just explains where the date comes from... Does the book contain a month/year somewhere inside of it? Annie 17:39, 19 April 2021 (EDT)
No, I was planning on citing the copyright notice. I have a number of edits, just didn't want to make them unles this is supposed to be the first edition. If it isn't I can clone and create a first edition pub record. Scifibones 18:05, 19 April 2021 (EDT)
Does your edition says anything about printing at all? It seems like there is more than one September printing - thus the question. If yours has a stated printing, that would be different from this one. If yours does not, I'd say to consider this the first September printing, add a "Assumed first printing. No printing statement anywhere in the book" and leave it at that.
For the dating, leave the existing note (as it comes from a book after all) AND add also the copyright one as well as a confirmation ("Confirmed as per....").Annie 18:16, 19 April 2021 (EDT)
My Edition is marked "First Edition" It has a complete number line, all the detail you would expect. Now I think we are on the same page Scifibones 18:24, 19 April 2021 (EDT)
Some of the old data looks like this. I *think* that this is meant to be the first printing BUT I'd clone anyway - none of the other editors mentioned the number line or the implication of it (aka that this is the first September printing). Chances are that it is but... we know we have at least 4 September/October printings... and Chavey tends to be good at his notes. We will deal with a duplicate later if need be. I'd still copy the notes from this one into the new one. Hope this makes some sense. :) Annie 18:31, 19 April 2021 (EDT)
I will put is note in, but, I think it will look odd. Hopefully you will be the reviewer so you can fix it on the fly if you change your mind. Scifibones 18:52, 19 April 2021 (EDT)
A second set of eyes never hurts. :) I will also think on it a bit more... old records can be... incomplete. Annie 19:37, 19 April 2021 (EDT)
It's submission 4969238 . I did not create a title for the endpaper map, I used a note instead. Editors of later volumes created some and variated others, looks like a mess. I will be verifying all volumes in the series. The endpapers in each volume have subtle differences, will require some variating. If you prefer content titles, I could probably sort it out.
P.S. The edits for the first Xanth books are in my submission queue, when they are approved I will take care of those and come back to the Earth Children series. Thanks John Scifibones 19:55, 19 April 2021 (EDT)
Annie, Biomassbob aproved the edit as submitted. I don't like the last pub note. What do you think? | The Clan of the Cave Bear Scifibones 18:25, 20 April 2021 (EDT)
We need some form of it I think - so it explains why we have two separate September books on the list and collaborates the date. How about "Month of publication confirmed in the May 1982 edition which notes 4 printings of this book in Sept. & Oct. of 1980"? Or if you rally dislike it, drop it, the other one has it I guess.I'd leave it though. But your book, your decision. :) Annie 18:34, 20 April 2021 (EDT)
Am I confirming the truth of this note with my PV? If so, that's a problem. I have no idea if it is true or not. How about a link in a pub note to the other pub? Or, merge the two, transfer the PV's and it would be Chavey verifying that note. Scifibones 19:00, 20 April 2021 (EDT)
How about: "According to the note in (insert link), there are 4 printings in Sept. & Oct. of 1980. This record is for the first of them." Annie 19:05, 20 April 2021 (EDT)
Works for me. Ill write it up and submit it. Scifibones 19:43, 20 April 2021 (EDT)

Ben Bova Voyagers II and III

Title record for Voyagers II: The Alien Within and the individual publication records have series and title. Same for Voyagers III: Star Brothers. Should I take care of the title and publication records for all the pubs, while I am doing mine? John Scifibones 18:10, 21 April 2021 (EDT)

The Alien Stars & Watkins Publishing vs Angry Robot

This one seems messy...

The ebook is available for publication right now in the UK, so I've submitted this. However, it looks like it could be a screw-up - you might want to check what Amazon US has to say? B&N say the Nook version isn't out till the 27th.

Somewhat unrelated, are you sure about the publisher on these pubs? I can see that's what Fixer submitted them as, but if you look closely, the Angry Robot logo is in the top right of the cover images. The Amazon preview of the ebook also has Angry Robot on the title page, so I've also changed that in the aforelinked edit. ErsatzCulture 06:45, 22 April 2021 (EDT)

All US versions do not come out until the 27th so I added a note.
"Angry Robot, an Imprint of Watkins Media Ltd" which when loaded into Amazon was loaded as Watkins Publishing :) Will add it on my list of "look carefully when Amazon thinks it is the publisher". I'll check the old Watkins books as well in case others were loaded this way. Annie 12:16, 22 April 2021 (EDT)

Removing a Rejection

Annie, I've never had to do this before. Someone has asked me to unreject an item that contained a lot of information, and he would like me to unreject it. I have no big objection, but don't know how. Please instruct me. Bob 10:40, 25 April 2021 (EDT)

O.K., figured it out. Bob 12:00, 25 April 2021 (EDT)
All set? Annie 15:12, 25 April 2021 (EDT)

Cleaning up after PVs

A few weeks ago, you showed me how to best update pubs that I was then going to PV so that the initial entry data was not lost. I've been using that method ever since and am happy with the results. However, looking back at changes and PVs that I did before changing my method shows me that I did a real poor job on a lot of pubs that I then PVed. In more than a few cases, it looks like I changed or lost the initial entry data but it looks like I can reconstruct it from the edit history. I want to go back and fix those pubs (maybe around 200 where I'm the only PV). If I could, I'd remove my PV for each one, make the corrected changes, and then PV again. Since I can't do that, how would you recommend that I make the necessary corrections? Phil 09:26, 30 April 2021 (EDT)

You can remove your PV if you want -- same place you do the PV, you can remove it. :) Annie 16:37, 30 April 2021 (EDT)
Perfect! I didn't see that option. So much to learn! :) Phil 22:17, 30 April 2021 (EDT)
The radio boxes there change based on what you had done before - None, Transient and Permanent are the three possible states of your own verification. When you hold one, you see the other 2 options only. So you won’t see the None until you PV and go back to the page. :) Annie 22:31, 30 April 2021 (EDT)

Linden Lewis vs Linden A. Lewis - the unwanted sequel

Just submitted an edit to fix the UK tp, similar to the fun on the hc/ebook documented at User_talk:Anniemod/Archive-2019-2020#Linden_Lewis_vs_Linden_A._Lewis.

(If it's any consolation, this one had been showing up as needing to be added in my tools for a few weeks, and I'd already looked at it once in the database, and assumed it was some weirdness/bug in my tools, forgetting that prior issue over authors.)

There's a sequel scheduled for August, so hopefully we can avoid a repeat... ErsatzCulture 07:46, 2 May 2021 (EDT)

You're invited in

Hi Annie. If you are around, I would love to have you jump into You have confused me John Scifibones 13:21, 6 May 2021 (EDT)

Sorry, managed to get myself admitted to a hospital... and just resurfacing after a recovery period... :) Annie 14:10, 21 May 2021 (EDT)
No apologies necessary, I'm glad you're okay. John Scifibones 15:04, 21 May 2021 (EDT)

John Brunner "China" series

Hi Annie.

John Brunner had a number of very late career speculative fiction stories set in China. He married a Chinese immigrant in 1991 (LiYi Tan), which may have influenced this writing in the years before his death in August 1995. I had read "Good with Rice" in Leigh Grossman's "Sense of Wonder: A Century of Science Fiction", and thought it good enough to track down the others.

At least 4 of these stories are wholly or partially in a version of the current (early-mid 1990's) China. 1. "Good With Rice", Asimov's March 1994, definitely science fiction. 2. "The Plot of His Ancestors", Asimov's March 1995. Probably genre-adjacent, but a good story. 3. "Amends", Asimov's March 1996. Set in ancient China and then modern China. Possible fantasy elements, perhaps not. 4. "Blood and Judgement", Asimov's April 1997. Definitely science fiction.

These two stories are not set in modern (1990's) China at all. 5. "All Under Heaven", Asimov's December 1995, set in ancient China, with an alien from elsewhere. 6. "The Emperor Who Had Never Seen A Dragon", Ruby Slippers, Golden Tears (Datlow/Windling, 1995). Definitely not 1990's China, and perhaps a fantasy.

There are all in ISFDB. From what I gather from Asimov's, these were all purchased for publication before he died.

I think it would be appropriate to set up a "Series" and apply it to at least some of these.

I checked. There is no "China" Series in ISFDB. I could see either "China" or "Brunner's China" or "Brunner's China Fiction" or something like that.

I would appreciate your advice.

Best wishes. Dave888 18:40, 28 May 2021 (EDT)

Publisher Imprints revisited

Hi Annie, if you have a minute, could we revisit using imprints. Take a look at this exchange with Bob. Ron accepted the submissions, you can see that Bob changed them back. This is frustrating. John Scifibones 08:06, 3 June 2021 (EDT) P.S. I'm not asking because I want to argue with Bob, want to know how to handle going forward. 09:00, 3 June 2021 (EDT)

Sigh... There are editors who are lumpers and some who are splitters. Let me look into this. Annie 11:54, 4 June 2021 (EDT)
There is no rush John Scifibones 14:47, 4 June 2021 (EDT)

Chasm City: ebook or pb?

Stumbled across an old submission of yours, whilst doing some research around a mistake I made: is this US pub of Chasm City a pb (per the format field and the note about "later printing") or an ebook (per the reference to ebooks, and search results for that ISBN)?

I expect you to remember the details of an edit you submitted ~4 years ago perfectly, of course! ;-)

(The reason I spotted this one, was that I did a local SQL query to see how many tp/pb/hc pubs had both an ISBN and an ASIN, in the hope that maybe that would indicate ebook pubs with incorrect format values. As it happens, there are just over 3000 of these records, most of which look to be selfpubbed stuff, for which I guess ISBN+ASIN is valid - but Chasm City stood out as one that I knew was a trad-pubbed title.) ErsatzCulture 11:39, 4 June 2021 (EDT)

If you look at the edit, I'd say that it was part of the moving the ASINs to their new field cleanup. Whoever added it initially messed up the format... and I did not notice. Fixed now.
On the ISBN/ASIN stuff - any book with ISBN starting with 979 WILL have ASIN if properly entered so you may want to get these off your query. In addition, a small set of 978 ones also have one because Amazon can be stupid sometimes. :) Annie 11:53, 4 June 2021 (EDT)
Thanks. Filtering out the 979-* ISBNs gets the number of results down to just under 300. I checked three of them - on one, the ASIN links for both UK and US were broken; on another, the ASIN link came back with a third-party seller page (not sure if there's a policy for these?); for the third, the pub note explicitly called out the ASIN != ISBN-10 weirdness. Probably won't bother looking into this further in the short term... ErsatzCulture 12:36, 4 June 2021 (EDT)
The invalid ones may have been valid once :) The third party seller one - UNLESS we sourced something from that page specifically, I would remove it. There are a lot of older books which just do not have proper records in Amazon but there is a third party record which has a lot of images and/or information. We want these... The last one? Chances are that it is my handiwork :) I tend to point it out when I remember to so people do not delete the ASIN (as the ISBN link won't work). Annie 12:40, 4 June 2021 (EDT)

New cover

Hi Annie, I have found a much better cover version for Egil's Book by C. J. Mills. It looks like it was removed from sale as there is a hole punched in the upper right, but the view is a straight on shot and much much clearer. Should I try to replace this cover and if so, how should I go about it. aardvark7 02:56, 24 June 2021 (EDT)


Hi Annie, thanks you for your support yesterday. Question, How does someone receive self moderating rights?John Scifibones 07:35, 8 July 2021 (EDT)

When someone is right, they are right :)
By being elected a moderator first I suspect - the self-moderation is a very new thing (it got implemented a few months ago due to a moderator not keeping his word not to touch submissions he had not created) so we do not have a precedent where self-moderation is allowed first. :) While I like what I had seen from you lately, I am not sure you are ready to self-moderate yet (2112 edits are way too low and I had not seen you in different areas of the server) - but I will keep an eye on your submissions in the next few months (and probably come over and bug you when I see something that can me improved). Most actions are reversible but there are a few areas where a moderator can do a lot of damage (usually unintentional) so we tend to wait out people to gain enough practice before giving them permissions. If you disagree, feel free to nominate yourself over in CS or the Moderator forum but... :) Annie 09:55, 8 July 2021 (EDT)
I think I have made a solid contribution where I have been working. Do you have any ideas for a project on another area of the server? No rush, just wanted to get you thinking about it. Thanks, John Scifibones 15:41, 20 August 2021 (EDT)

Double Cover

The pub Earth Is Heaven from Arrow has the cover credited twice. How can this be corrected? Bob 21:12, 17 July 2021 (EDT)

Two steps: Remove title from Pub - select one of them to be pulled out (this will remove one of them from the book - as we will be merging, it does not matter which one you pull out) and then merge the two records. Let me know if you want me to do it. Annie 04:26, 18 July 2021 (EDT)
Annie, I found a one-step method. Go to edit the pub, then remove titles from the pub and flag one of the cover art citations. Voila! Bob 11:38, 18 July 2021 (EDT)
Same thing I explained :) EditPub will not remove it - you still need Remove from Pub. If you remove the one everyone else uses, you still need to merge. If you pull the empty one, you need to delete it. Still 2 steps. I just always merge so I do not need to worry which one I remove :) . Annie 18:48, 18 July 2021 (EDT)

Toxicon and Arachne

Thanks Annie, I saw you put the equals sign in for me. Even though the page I originally entered pointed to the correct content, I think this is better. I will go back and put in the pipes. I use them 99% of the time, I didn't this time since Joyelle McSweeney had only one entry prior to this publication. John Scifibones 19:06, 23 July 2021 (EDT)

No worries. I saw that you want to change the URL but did not know which one you want to use - so I just fixed the incorrect html - the rest you can deal with :) As for the pipes - technically they should not move around in this book because they don't have earlier entries to be merged into. But you never know when something weird happens and we can always change the default order (we tried once to change it to alphabetical - it was a disaster) so... pipes are always a good idea when you know the order. :) Annie 19:12, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
I ended up submitting 3 more edits for this title, lol. One for the link, one to add piping, and an edit to the title record. After they are posted, I'll clone the ebook. This book looks like something special, I think I'm going to buy it. Thanks Again! John Scifibones 19:27, 23 July 2021 (EDT)

Rediscovery: Science Fiction by Women (1958-1963)

When you have a chance, could you please review this discussion which relates to some records which you modified in 2019? (Isn't Edit History great? :-) TIA! Ahasuerus 13:49, 17 August 2021 (EDT)

Posted :) Annie 15:00, 17 August 2021 (EDT)

? Serra; all other credits on ISFDB for this artist are by Daniele; is it the book's mistake or was it entered wrong? --Username 15:13, 24 August 2021 (EDT)

Publisher site says Danielle. Amazon does not have look inside, the author line says Daniele on .com and Danielle on but these can be wrong (they are human entered for these secondary ones and who knows which one was "fixed"). Without finding a copy of the book somewhere to verify if it is a source typo or book typo, we go with what the source says. Annie 17:46, 24 August 2021 (EDT); clicking photo next to "Stock Status" shows full cover with the words "Cover by Daniele Serra" on the back; hard to see because the words are over a white part of the cover, but after I zoomed it up it's definitely one L. --Username 18:17, 24 August 2021 (EDT)
Name and note updated. Thanks! Annie 14:20, 25 August 2021 (EDT)

Lavie Tidhar's Osama 2021 pub(s) - collection rather than novel?

(Finally got off my backside and got my dev PC working again - I've yet to delve into the UK backlog...)

I saw this pub on the front page, which was submitted by Fixer and updated by you. The publisher's page (and also the Amazon UK listing, at least as of today) says "Tenth Anniversary Edition, with a new introduction and three extra stories." which should - assuming I can still remember all the ISFDB rules after 2 months away :-) - should make this a collection, right? Thought I'd best check before making any changes, especially as retailer exclusives with bonus material (example) that I've submitted in the past have stayed as novels.

The Kobo listing actually has the preview already available, so it looks like the additional stories (all reprints, although I haven't checked if they're already in the DB) can be added/imported as well. ErsatzCulture 14:18, 26 August 2021 (EDT)

Well, it depends on how many stories. 1 or 2 leaves it to the editor to decide if they want to keep it a novel or a collection; adding more will always make it a collection. 3 new stories - I would make it a collection, yes. I fixed the types - if you ever find which stories are there, please add them. Either I missed the note or it was not there when I added it. Thanks for finding it. And welcome back :) Annie 14:47, 26 August 2021 (EDT)

Re: Clarification about The Ghost of a Hand Unmerge Request


Hi Annie, and thanks. The story The Ghost of a Hand appearing in Horrific Fables ( currently links to the wrong place. It should link to the 1863 version here:

In short, the entry on this page: should end up as such:

69 • The Ghost of a Hand • (1863) • short story by Joseph Sheridan Le Fanu [as by J. Sheridan Le Fanu]

with the story linking here:

I was trying to unlink it so I could then relink it because I don't know how to change it in one step. If you could help me out, I will be grateful. Most of the stuff here is pretty straightforward, but aspects of linking the reprinted stories are a bit confusing for me. Thanks again.

Thuff2000 00:16, 2 September 2021 (EDT)

New Weird (in Romanian)

Hi, Annie. About this submission, I don't find another ISBN for this book. Please delete ISBN 9781892391551 from submission. Thanks. --Florin 03:04, 2 September 2021 (EDT)

Approved and ISBN deleted :) MagicUnk 16:05, 6 September 2021 (EDT)

Masks: The Complete Trilogy

Annie, If you are still around, would you mind approving this submission. Then I can fix the rest of it. Lot tougher going backward. Thanks John Scifibones 21:30, 8 September 2021 (EDT)

Done but a few notes: I’d keep Masks in the title. While we don’t for books, omnibuses are kinda special and The Complete Trilogy is not a real title but a subtitle usually. And if you keep that as an omnibus, you need to import the Collection titles also not just the poems themselves. Hope that makes sense. Annie 21:36, 8 September 2021 (EDT)
I know, I planned to. John Scifibones 21:40, 8 September 2021 (EDT)
I tend to over-explain sometimes - more often than not saves me from writing 20 messages. :) Have fun and thanks for working on the poetry. Annie 21:49, 8 September 2021 (EDT)
I understand. Lol. All that should be left on Masks is a final check after all the submissions are processed, then I'll clone the ebooks. Poetry has me hooked, I'll always be working on it. I have a long list of to do's, but, let me know what other parts of the server I should also look at. John Scifibones 23:14, 8 September 2021 (EDT) P.S. Might want to answer this last part on my page, no need to fill up yours.
Whatever interests you. :) Magazines can always use help. Filling in missing contents for collections and anthologies - especially in the next few months, having as many of the stories in magazines and collections and so on and as many issues of magazines before next awards season hits makes the dB more relevant and more likely to attract new users. We always play catchup because there is a lot of work in there. We even used to have a tracker one year and I was thinking of reviving it for 2022 to see if we can get a bit more organized. Translations and books in other languages if you have a language you can work in. Adding missing authors or editions. Adding missing books from authors. Everyone tends to find their niches and expand from there. As long as it does not feel like a chore. It is a big DB. My own todo list is probably longer than War and Peace at this point - and there is never time to get to all of it. Take a look at the cleanup reports if you are bored (and if you are not sure what needs to be done in any of then, ask and I will assist). Or pick something that you really care about and work on it. Scared yet? :) Annie 23:52, 8 September 2021 (EDT)

Problem Title.

Annie, We have a problem with this title. I suspected it when I created Issue 12 of Eye to the Telescope. I'm sure you know that ghazal is a type of poetry. Apparently, Joshua Gage is publishing many of his untitled ghazal with the title "Ghazal". I compared the work in issue 12 with the one in issue 8, not the same . Some of the pubs in that title are PV'ed. What is the best way to handle? Unmerge and disambiguate with numbers? John Scifibones 16:05, 10 September 2021 (EDT)

Unmerge and add NOTES explaining the differences. No change in names usually. That's not uncommon with poetry. Just make sure there are enough notes so people know what is what. Annie 16:16, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
Different topic. I could never have found the Russian title or name. How did you do it? John Scifibones 16:38, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
I read Russian - technically speak it as well - except that I had forgotten more than I wish I had so these days it is passive only (read and listen) and extremely embarrassing when I try to speak/write. I will see if I can scare away the Polish one as well later - I don't read Polish much but I usually can find my way around Polish sites. If you need any help with any Eastern and Central European titles (the Slavic languages plus Hungarian), ping me - I may be able to help. :) Annie 16:42, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
And if you are asking about this specific one - the author name was easy (standard enough to have very little number of possible spellings in Russian and Wikipedia confirmed it easily. And the poem’s title is distinctive enough to assist searches once you have the author name. The second one by him is trickier but I am still looking for it’s original title. So it somewhat lucky on the title itself - especially because my usual sources for Russian titles did not have it. :) Annie 22:31, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
There's also the rule to disambiguate identical titles by appending the publication's title in parentheses. It has the big advantage that 'accidental' merges are impossible. Valid approach for this 'ghazal' if you ask me :) MagicUnk 07:59, 11 September 2021 (EDT)
It is kinda valid but I do not like it much for fiction and poetry (and it technically not meant for them - these things get reprinted and confusion reigns supreme - if anything for poetry, we will be better off with the first line being added to the notes than anything else. And even if you change the title, editors will try to combine them sooner or later if notes are not added. The notes are mandatory even if you disambiguate the title in this case - it is not like Introductions and so on :) Annie 08:04, 11 September 2021 (EDT)

Need a little help

Annie, any chance you can help with original publication dates for Die Liebe and Sphinx? John Scifibones 19:20, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

Well, they will pop up from somewhere - will do some searches to see if I can find where they may have been published in German :) Annie 20:01, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
I found Sphinx, just need help with Die Liebe. Thanks, John Scifibones 20:03, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
Die Liebe and Sphinx. Both in "Die gesammelten Gedichte" in 1917 so most likely printed earlier so using the first line to search finds us Der siebente Tag 1905 for both. I will look to see if we can trace them earlier but I think this is the earliest. :) Annie 20:10, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
Approved your edit and then moved it down to 1905 and updated the other one and pinged one of the German natives to see if they can find earlier publications. :) Annie 20:18, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

Close Encounters

The note for this states "The shortfiction content should be based either on the novelization or on the screenplay. In the first case this title should be varianted to a parent title as by Spielberg" So if that is the case how should one go about varianting it as this edition is included under the title despite it being obvioulsy a FOTONOVEL. --Mavmaramis 05:14, 24 September 2021 (EDT)

You we’re varianting the chapbook in your submission. If anything is going to be varianted, it will be the story, not the container.
As for the story itself, we do not variant abridgements - thus the attempted explanation in the note. If it is the complete novel, then a type change is needed. Annie 10:16, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
So If a fotonovel is the complete text, it is recorded as a novel and then varianted and/or merged. There is no situation under which a novel is recorded as a novella and still varianted under the novel. In the case above, it was treated as if it is the complete novel. If it is not, it needs to be split out. :) Annie 10:18, 24 September 2021 (EDT)

Shroud; digital issues don't have more than 1 issue per year on ISFDB so there's no need for a yearly record; the trade editions are subtitled "The Journal of Dark Fiction and Art" while the digital editions are subtitled "The Quarterly Journal of Speculative Writing", like the one I fixed which other editor mistakenly lumped under the print Shroud issues, as should have been obvious since it has a $2.99 price and an ebook format. Not that the magazine itself was any better, since some of their print issues were subtitled "The Quarterly Journal of Dark Fiction and Art", so they couldn't even decide what their own name was. Or I could be wrong; don't really care much anymore. --Username 13:44, 24 September 2021 (EDT)

Jenny Campbell

If there were a photo of her by herself with no text, I would have added it. There's thousands of pictures online of Ramsey Campbell, but his wife's are very rare; I found one on an ISFDB-friendly site so I added that. It's better to have a group picture with text than no picture at all. I'm starting to think you're rejecting my perfectly acceptable edits out of personal spite; I hope that's not the case. After the hundreds of records I've fixed with wrong info that you either added yourself or accepted from other editors, you should be less critical of other's minor mistakes (not that this one was actually a mistake). If you can find a clear picture of Jenny by herself with no text, add it; otherwise add the one I provided. --Username 17:42, 27 September 2021 (EDT)

Sorry but no. We do not add random pictures which take less than half the image and include other people because we cannot find a better one. Add a note in the account with a link to it if you want but this is not a good picture to have as an author image on the page IMO.
Nothing personal - I would have rejected that from any editor and had it been approved, I would have questioned it as being a valid image. You are doing wonderful research and your edit quality had improved tremendously over the last weeks and months but some of your edits still require more follow-up work than they should at this point (editing publication title but not the title record title, not clearing variants when changing something, not clarifying which ID you are adding a note about). Those things will smooth out with time I hope but you cannot get offended every time when someone tells you that something is not a good idea. Annie 17:51, 27 September 2021 (EDT)

Nonfiction and/or non-genre

Before I go loading all the non-fiction Asimov, I'd like to get clear on the non-genre thing. A book on chemistry is nonfiction/non-genre, a book on Jupiter is nonfiction/non-genre, a book on the impact of science fiction is nonfiction/genre.

If so, then quite of few of the existing books (e.g. this) are wrong and I may end up having to clean up a number of these. Are edits flagging such pubs worthy of notifying PV's? Could a moderator note suffice?

I also noticed a series that might be a publisher series or title series - it's a set of books for early readers. So clearly publisher, but might also be title as they are written to go together. The publisher site is here, if you search on Asimov you should be able to see a number of them.

../Doug H 23:52, 28 September 2021 (EDT)

The edit will be on the title level, not on the pub one so notifiers won’t see them. Because of that I’d compile a list of all the active PVs who are caught into this and let them know that the non-genre books of Asimov are getting their flags as such :) Or even just post on Community Support or on the Moderator board.
The flags are relatively new (all things considered) and I think at one point they were only for contents items (or so my brain tells me). But yes - a lot of our non genre nonfiction stuff is not marked as such - the older the record, the more likely it is not. And yes - I suspect that there things that need cleanup - no one had been really interested in non genre non fiction by him I suspect. Feel free to reorganize if there are mistakes or something else makes sense - just make sure PVs know what is going on in such cases (active PVs who want to be notified anyway) ;) Annie 00:07, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
I'll take it that my characterization of genre/non-genre is close enough. And the series? From Help Title series: "These series are linked by common characters, story lines or settings. Every publication of a given title will have the same series information." Pub Series: " a set of similarly packaged books designated by the publisher (or publishers), often related only in theme or marketing." These books were written for the series, (same length, vocabulary level, targeting young readers, style) but no links matching the definition. So while superficially it seems a Pub Series, I feel it's a Title series and I'm looking for a justification. ../Doug H 08:28, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
I was answering from the phone last night and apparently missed the fact that that was a question. Yep for the non-genre - if it is about speculative fiction or about books about speculative fiction, it is genre. Otherwise it is not :) Let me look at the series. One thing to consider - IF these get translated, will they survive as a series? If not, then they are pub series; if yes - then title series is better. For some series it is murky so there is a value judgment in there. Annie 13:57, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

(unindent) Hi, it's me again. I tend to be a completist but wanted to make sure it wasn't too much in this case. One non-genre collection (NONFICTION - not COLLECTION) includes details prior publications. As an example, a piece (NONFICTION not ESSAY) that was previously published in TV Guide Magazine. As I include each piece, the earlier date for non-magazines and collection's date for magazines. These earlier non-genre publications will be created, but only the genre and threshold contents would be entered. So more TV Guide Magazines will show up in ISFDB. ../Doug H 13:25, 2 October 2021 (EDT)

If it is in a magazine, it is an essay and not non fiction even if it was later/earlier published as a book on its own. And its magazine appearance is not eligible to be added if it is non-genre essay in a non genre magazine even from over the treshold author (only book publications are). Annie 15:06, 2 October 2021 (EDT)

The Stepford Wives

I happened to notice that Lem of this conversation put his note to Markwood on his user page, not his talk page. You're damn near omniscient on this site, but even this might have escaped your notice. (P.S. I'm 'watching' Markwood based on a query I made once and wondered what the N next to a message meant.) ../Doug H 11:09, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

It happens... That's why I posted this. All cleaned up (I am just getting into the site for the day ;) ) Thanks for letting me know though :) Annie 13:38, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

No longer valid (?) ASIN - what to do

(This should maybe go to a more general discussion page on the Wiki, but I don't know that anyone other than you and Ahasuerus/Fixer particularly cares about ASINs...)

This ebook pub was submitted by Fixer ~6 months ago with the ASIN B08L871SKV. That ASIN doesn't seem to exist any longer - if I click on the UK or US links, I get Page Not Found errors. Googling for the ASIN lists a couple of Facebook pages relating to this book, which at least provides some confirmation that it was valid at some point in time. Could you check to see if you can get it to work for you?

The ASIN it has now (on Amazon UK at least) is B094BGH38N. This works for me if I use it on, but that may well be just Amazon US serving me the details of a UK pub because it knows I'm visiting from a UK IP.

Assuming the ASIN has been replaced, I'm not sure whether to add the new one, keeping the old, or to replace it - and adding an appropriate explanatory note. Removing a "dead" ASIN (and thus the Amazon links) might be better from a user point-of-view, but I wonder if it might cause Fixer confusion or inconsistency? ErsatzCulture 18:22, 2 October 2021 (EDT)

Add the new one or treat is as a new book - whatever applies (date, cover or something inside may point to it being a different book; if all is the same, just add the new Asin with a note and a date. But do not remove it from the ASIN field or it will come back from Fixer eventually. It happens occasionally. I’ll check when I am on my proper machine to see what US thinks of that one. Annie 19:10, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
The old Asin may not be valid on Amazon but other bibliographies had used it as much as we had (Goodreads as well) so removing it is the worst thing you can do - forget Fixer, you are making the book less traceable across internet. Which is counterproductive. :). If the AsIn was ever used, it stays on the book. Annie 19:13, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
Amazon used to keep superseded ASINs around, presumably for discoverability reasons. However, their presence was confusing some Amazon customers who couldn't understand why a bookstore would show editions which were not for sale. Worse, some customers would see "This book is not longer available" note and decide that the book was out of print even though the Amazon page had a link to other editions. Eventually Amazon stopped displaying obsolete ASINs. As Annie pointed out, we, like Goodreads, want to keep superseded ASINs in our database.
Re: Fixer, when an ASIN/ISBN is submitted to the main ISFDB server, Fixer marks it as "submitted" in his internal database on the development server -- see the description of "Queue 8" on this Wiki page. If an ASIN/ISBN is rejected or deleted on the main server, it won't affect Fixer's internal status, so the ASIN/ISBN won't be resubmitted. Ahasuerus 20:29, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
Unless it was not a Fixer one (I’d swap if a pre-publication one diese for the book is out so is never used) or I returned it back by a mistake. :) Things happen. No reason to make everyone’s work harder. :)Annie 20:34, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
Thanks both - I've submitted an edit to add the second ASIN. ErsatzCulture 12:21, 3 October 2021 (EDT)

The Anarchist

Re: Wiki Series: The Anarchist. It seems the page was created by a new editor who thought the wiki page preceded the ISFDB entries. I checked the site and as far as I can tell there are no issues (although the archive is grouped by month), so it would fall under "Online publication available exclusively as a Web page", although for higher paid membership it says it will email the quarterly and/or annual e-book edition. There is also a plea for funds so they can pay at the SFWA rate, suggesting they not be a market that makes authors eligible for SFWA membership. Because the request showed up in the Series: pages and not the Community Portal or Help, it's been overlooked. The editor went quiet soon after. You were the only moderator to comment on his page. Do we delete the wiki page or add the magazine? Point me to a comparable one and I'll add a couple of stories to get it started. ../Doug H 13:05, 3 October 2021 (EDT)

The Arcanist. Let me look into it tomorrow and see if it is eligible under the current rules and we will take it from there. The wiki page will probably need to be deleted - but we will see.
I’ve missed the updates - I try to monitor all updates to wiki at least weekly but that one I missed. Annie 21:38, 3 October 2021 (EDT)
So... this is one of those borderline cases. They are just posting stories (which makes them ineligible). But as there seems to be 1/2 weeks cadence, if we consider this an issue, it will be eligible. It will be added similarly to how we do Basically - a new Magazine for each "issue" and the story added into that. Clear as mud, I know. Let me know if you have any questions. Annie 14:27, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

Tor US hc delays?

FYI, one of my Twitter contacts mentioned this, so I thought it might be worth checking other imminent Tor US hcs, and the first one I looked at is [4] similarly afflicted, so maybe this is a more widespread problem?

I dunno if you/Fixer have any easy ways of checking/updating these, especially for all the various Tor/Macmillan imprints? Afraid I've still got enough of a UK backlog from my summer hiatus that I'm not planning on checking any more of these US pubs, unless I maybe stumble across them whilst doing their UK equivalents :-( ErsatzCulture 13:56, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

It is called "Annie checks them one by one". That's why I would do a month sweeps usually to see if everything came out. It is not widespread - a few books are caught into this (and that's partially why I am slower in adding November just now - all US publishers are somewhat caught into this but not as bad as it could have been from what I am seeing (paper/printer/distribution issues - so they are pulling releases back basically)). Welcome to the latest episode in the COVID/post-COVID related delays. If you see any that are delayed, fix them. If not, we will catch them at some point. :) Annie 14:13, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

Illuminations by Arthur Rimbaud

Do you agree that this work qualifies for inclusion? I plan on using the 1957 multilingual work by Louise Varese. John Scifibones 14:13, 7 October 2021 (EDT)

this one? I do not see anything overtly speculative on first glance but poetry is tricky that way. Let me look a bit deeper later today. Annie 14:49, 7 October 2021 (EDT)
Yes, that is the collection. Isn't he the first of the Surrealists? I agree it's hazy, that's why I wanted another opinion. John Scifibones 15:02, 7 October 2021 (EDT)
We have a few of the poems and a Spanish collection which has a single entry. Which usually tells me that we are looking at a non-genre poet with single poems that qualify... or that we had not added the works yet. Thus me needing to look a bit more. He is a great influence on the Surrealists for sure but is he one of them may be a bit debatable. So hold onto the book for a bit while I am looking around. :) Annie 15:11, 7 October 2021 (EDT)
No rush, plenty more to add! John Scifibones 15:24, 7 October 2021 (EDT)
Find out anything more? John Scifibones 19:38, 11 October 2021 (EDT)
I still think he is out except for the few poems that are obviously genre :( But if you want post on CS as well and see what someone else thinks - he is borderline... Annie 19:39, 11 October 2021 (EDT)

Edits to Virginia Cross

No problem; I understand why the change got rejected. I'm still sorting out how this works - I'll look into getting the image in the DB here.

I believe the credit on Martha Brown is partially incorrect - Cory published "Martha Brown, M.P.: A Girl of Tomorrow" under the name Victoria Cross. I don't believe that's the same as Virginia Cross who published "Adversity" in 1955. Annnie Sophie Cory, aka Vivian Cory, aka Victoria Cross, died in 1952. I can't find any evidence she published under the name Virginia, nor that this was a posthumous release. - Elf Herself 20:11, 10 October 2021 (EDT)

Artwork on the interior of a dust jacket

Will you comment here, please. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:08, 11 October 2021 (EDT)

2020 UK pub of Abbie Longstaff's A Sticky Situation

Stumbled across this pub by chance, and thought I might be able to fill in the missing price. However, I get the distinct impression that it never came out and/or was dodgy data in Amazon that Fixer picked up:

  • Hachette UK denies any knowledge of this pub - although I don't think they acknowledge the existence of export editions, which might be an explanation?
  • The only current listing on Amazon UK is from a third party seller, and is maybe just the earlier UK pub that has the same cover image, mislabelled with the wrong ISBN?
  • Googling for the ISBN shows it unavailable at BookDepository, and all other links are second hand copies - no Waterstones/Blackwells/

Are there any other useful places to check? Thx ErsatzCulture 10:40, 15 October 2021 (EDT)

International editions and reprints can be... elusive. However.
This Catalog, page 63 for Spring/Summer 2020 of Hachette UK shows it, with $ price on it (so the catalog was for the Canadian market most likely - the ISBN is a Hachette UK one and this is the UK catalog but there is a "Hachette UK Canada" in there thus my guess of that being for the Canadian market; or the catalog is prepared for the Canadian market anyway).
ebay reports at least 3 copies under that ISBN and Abebooks also has copies. The UK versions also have some dealers with copies I suspect. While these may be vaporware and these records may be wrong, when there are actually that many copies for sale somewhere, I tend to believe that this ISBN made it out. Who knows. Considering that this came out in the week when USA literally closed last year (and most of the world did it around the same time), chances are that the distribution got a bit... challenging. So did it come out? 50/50 chance really but the copies that seem to exist for sale make me lean towards yes. All of them are also in UK which will be consistent with a failing distribution maybe? Still can be a vaporware but... Welcome to tracing weird books. Annie 14:18, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
Thanks for taking the time to look into that. I've got details for a bunch of (what appear to be) export editions of a number of titles, but I've been loathe to submit, because most are only single sourced, and that source is usually Blackwells, who seem to be the most prone to having dubious data (e.g. incorrect/outdated pagination, mangled author names) after Amazon.
I've also recently started making more of an effort to track YA & juvenile pubs like this one, but am already wondering if I've walked into a minefield - Penguin UK lists a load of Brian Jacques Redwall tp reissues that apparently came out last month, but I've yet to find any corroboration they came out, other than Blackwells listing them, with a "not in stock" status. To further complicate things, some of those tps did have corresponding ebooks that did appear to come out on the same date. Sigh.... ErsatzCulture 17:48, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
The more you do of these, the easier it is to spot which ones are suspect. That one? I did not find that catalog until you asked for it but between what google was showing and the and Amazon UK and Amazon CA and Amazon AU records back then, it was a 90% chance that it will come out. So in it went. Sometimes mistakes are made. Future books will always be a gamble so I play the odds - with time you kinda know which publishers are likely to flake and how a bad one looks like. And this is pre-pandemic - back then I was running 60-80 days ahead of publishing often and we will have 1 or 2 that do not come out or get delayed in an entered batch of 200 or so. I doubt I am ever going to do that again and I know a lot more about a lot of publishers now. I do ~60 now on some publishers and authors with proven record but most of what I add is in the 30-45 range if not sooner. We do the best we can. Spot checks clear some, regular checks when I can run them clear others. But there will always be books that just do not exist - unless we stop allowing future books, that will always be the case. :) Annie 18:00, 15 October 2021 (EDT)

Stag Boy; Your name is the only one in Edit History, so I'm letting you know that after I added prices to the Lions edition I noticed the Harcourt edition also had the Lions cover (a worse one with writing on the cover); the one Harcourt photo on Amazon,, looks like a HC, not a TP, but it's a bad sideways cover. Also, all editions share the same cover art, so that Heslop credit should be added to other editions and dated to the original Collins edition. --Username 13:41, 15 October 2021 (EDT)

As you can see with from my note there (that's why I insist on writing moderator notes mentioning what had been changed), it was part of the external ID move out (when we added the extra fields for them, we had a cleanup project to clear them out from the Notes fields and move them into the new fields). Other from that I know nothing about this book. :) We do not have history before a certain point so the older the record is, the less likely is that whoever added it can be identified. Thanks for the note though! Annie 13:50, 15 October 2021 (EDT)

Cleanup report

The following magazines can be removed from the multilingual publication cleanup report. (5) issues Bewildering Stories, Eye to the Telescope, Liquid Imaginations, and Space and Time. Just a nudge as suggested. John Scifibones 08:03, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

Done! Annie 13:31, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

Storming; I added cover to TP of this book and got "ISBN already on file" because there's an e-book as nonfiction, unlike the 2 print editions which are anthologies. I found the TP cover and added it, but not sure if it's fiction or not, so letting you know in case you want to change type of ebook edition or merge or whatever. --Username 13:29, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

All sorted out. Thanks! Annie 13:35, 21 October 2021 (EDT)


I hope it's ok to ask you directly, instead of announcing my ignorance to the whole moderator noticeboard.
I'm always using cloning when adding non-existing editions to the db, I hope that is the right way to go.
I haven't added a translation yet, but was tempting to do it for City, Simak. I've read through the help
pages, telling me I should add a translation as a new publication first, and then make them into a variant,
but how do I do with a collection? I guess, the shortfiction-works needs to exist before adding them,
which they don't - so I guess that is where I need to start? How do I add translations to shortfiction titles?
Do I add them as variants directly to the parent shortfiction? --Spacecow 05:11, 22 October 2021 (EDT)

Nope. Don't add a variant to a title as a first step - that leaves an empty variant and we are very good at deleting them if you do not use them fast enough. Instead add the book, then variant everything. Clone is only useful if you have an existing edition in the correct language, author, title and translator (if that applies) :)
To add a new collection, use Add New Collection from the left menu. The names of the stories will go into the "Regular Titles" section. Don't forget to change the language of the whole collection at the top to whatever language you are adding so the stories get created with the same language - or they will need to be changed one by one after they are approved.
Once the collection is created on approval, the stories will also be created. Then you add a translator to each of them (if you know who that is) and variant them to their originals. And we are all done.
Let me know if something is still unclear and I will try to explain whatever it is. Annie 05:18, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
PS: And yes - it is ok to ask me directly :) Not that my page is not as visible as CS - as long as you are ok with me responding when I can :) Annie 05:35, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
Ah, ok. That is simpler than I thought. But let's assume that one of the shortstories I am to add already exists, how would I go about linking to the right one? --Spacecow 06:18, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
Exists in the correct language and with the correct translator, title and author name form? Skip it when adding the collection and then use Import to add it once the collection is approved. :) Anything you type will create a new record. Now - if this happens and we discover it later, we can merge the two records as well.
If it is a different version of the same story (different language, different title, different form of the author or a different translator), then you add a new story and it stays on its own and get varianted to the original. Annie 06:27, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
Ok. Ill try. After the shortfiction stories are created and hopefully accepted, will I go and individually request them to be variants and link them to a parent? --Spacecow 07:56, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
Yep. One by one. No shortcuts I am afraid. :) Annie 07:58, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
Done. Here it is: What did I forget? Thanks Kraang for the help. --Spacecow 00:56, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
Great work :) Translations can be... challenging and long-winded. One thing: when you did the variants, did you see the yellow warnings telling you that you have a length mismatch on some of these? :) That needs fixing - the length of a variant must match the length of a parent. So as for example this is a novelette, all its children need to be set as novelettes when they are connected. :) They will come up on a report if you miss them but as you asked what you forgot and it is good to fix them while editing (I tend to do that when adding the translator usually - unless I forget). :)
I will add a few external IDs in a bit - just so we have them connected. They are not mandatory and PV beats data from them any day - but they allow for secondary verifications :) Annie 01:04, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
I did see the warnings, but I thought they would perhaps inherit the value of the parent, but you are saying I/we need to set them manually. Good to know, thanks. --Spacecow 01:12, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
They need to be done manually - yes. You will never see a yellow warning if something will fix itself. Think of the yellow warnings as an early warning system. Sometimes it is just a warning (you sure you are in one of the exceptions we allow this for?); more often than not is is a "there is something off here, look again". Technically all of them have corresponding reports so someone will fix them one day but still. :)
We will automatically set the lengths (and the juvenile, non-genre and so on flags) if you are creating a new title (new parent for a variant to bring it to the canonical author page for example) but when you are connecting two existing titles, it is up to the editor to determine which of the two has the wrong value. Once a title is created, very little happens automatically - too much of a risk of propagating a mistake that way so editors need to reconcile when something disagrees. Annie 01:26, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
If I remember correctly, there was a place to set that value already when you where adding the shortstories in the Regular Title section for the Collection. --Spacecow 01:16, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
Yes - if you have the original opened so you can look at the lengths while adding the collection, you can set them there. But as you need to edit every title anyway to add a translator, I tend to get lazy and do it at that point: Look up the story and submit two edits: One TitleEdit with the length, translator, any other notes for the translation I want to add and whatever checkboxes need setting (those can only be done at that point) and one for the MakeVariant. If you already have the lengths set from the collection creation, then all you need is the translator and checkboxes if any (And fixing any length you set by mistake). Whatever works for you - as long as at the end all is set, it does not make a difference really. :) Annie 01:26, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
Please explain this part to me again. I was going to add a new translation for Stapledon's Last and First Men and noticed some sections in existing editions were missing. I would like to add these pre-existing essays to:" (after pinging Mavmaramis)
7 • General Editor's Foreword (Last and First Men) • (1963) • essay by Brian W. Aldiss [as by Brian Aldiss]
11 • Preface (Last and First Men) • (1930) • essay by Olaf Stapledon
I went to this title:, pressed "Import Content" and tried both options for title:288819 and was hoping to be able to pick only those two sections/essays to import, but it seems i have to import everything or nothing? obviously im doing something wrong again. --Spacecow 18:46, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
Import has two options:
  • Option 1, the top of the Screen - Import All from a publication. You use the publication ID here. Contents which is already in the book will be skipped (as long as it uses the same title ID).
  • Option 2, bottom of the Screen - import specific title records. You just use the Title IDs and not the book ID.
So you just want to import the 2 essays, just use option 2 and import using their IDs and not option 1 which indeed is an all or nothing. Annie 18:56, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

(unindent) So I assume you want to import them from here? You can do it two ways:

Option 1 (the top option) with ID 19952 (the publication) and making sure that you UNCHECK "Include COVERART title(s)?" so the Craddock cover does not come with you. This will work here because the novel is already in and you can filter out the two art types. If you want to import only one of the essays, you have to go to option 2.
Option 2 with IDs 689473 and 689469 (one per line) - which are the IDs of the two titles: General Editor's Foreword (Last and First Men) and Preface (Last and First Men).

Does this help? If not, where did I lose you in the explanation. Annie 02:42, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

Thanks for following up. I have an edit in now - I went with option 2. It was a little confusing at first. It looked like I was overwriting the existing Regular Title as well, but then I realized I was only informed of the Regular Titles that were about to be added. --Spacecow 03:33, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
Yep - the screen is trying to show you what you are doing so it can be a bit confusing. You get used to it once you do a few of them. Incidentally, behind the scenes, both do the same - import a bunch of Title IDs - in one case the system gets them from the pub on its own, in the other you list them. :) So a moderator cannot tell which option you used. Annie 03:37, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
Now, I'm about to add this title: 1003917, to two Swedish translations. The first translation doesn't have this section signed, so I'm thinking of using the title that points to Stapleton directly: 1667014. The other one, however, has translated the author from "One of the Last Men" into Swedish, i.e.: "En av De Sista Människorna". What do you want me to do here? Can I still use title: 1003917? Or should we create a variant to the author? And I guess, a variant to the section as well? Thanks for answering all my questions btw. Really appreciate it. --Spacecow 03:49, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
You cannot use 1003917 in a Swedish book directly unless the text is literally printed in English. If you are asking where you should variant later - we do not support variant of variant so you will always variant to the canonical title. If you are asking how to record: The first one will be either uncredited or with the author from the title page (so Stapleton) if it is obvious it is him (any uncredited pieces that do not seem to be by someone else are by definition by the author of the book... a note to that effect is added in the publication usually if there is a reason to do so). The second case - yes, you use the name the Swedish publisher gave to the author of that piece, then we pseudonym it to Stapleton the way this one is. So as usual - add the books, THEN sort out what connects where and if needed connect a pseudonym. So there will be two Swedish translations of that essay from the sound of it. Similar to how we have 3 Russian ones here - the last two are the same translation, same title but the author is credited differently so we have two translations in the list.:)
And you are always welcome :) Annie 03:58, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
Alright! I'll go crazy then! ;) --Spacecow 04:04, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

Russian transliteration help

Would you mind helping with the transliteration in this pending submission? Thanks John Scifibones 23:11, 23 October 2021 (EDT)

Done. I am surprised they printed that :) I also marked the article as non-genre - while it may read as genre, it was not intended as anything but truth. Plus it is not about speculative fiction (the only nonfiction eligible as genre is the one related to speculative fiction or to non-fiction about speculative fiction) - which is how we determine genre. It is IN as part of a genre periodical but we (probably should) put the non-genre flag on it. I also moved the link to the links section and added the Russian title of the newspaper and created the pseudonym and filled in the author page while I was at it. And let me think on the genre flag - it sounds correct but we do not have a practice of doing it for things added because they are in our magazines so... I'll go reading some help pages and thinking... :) Annie 23:35, 23 October 2021 (EDT)
Thanks for the help. This is really quite an article. Finding and reading it made entering all the Bewildering Stories issues worth it. John Scifibones 11:32, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
Should Natan Dubovitsky now become an alternate name for Владислав Сурков? John Scifibones 11:47, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
Not based on “believed to be”. We only connect based on proven identities - no one is really sure even on the Russian internet. The note you have is the best we can do until the pseudonym is proven. . Annie 15:20, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

Carla Jablonski

I tried to answer your questions here. I hope I did a good enough job at explaining myself. MLB 17:03, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

Yep, perfectly. As soon as I connect all I will be back to your page explaining what I did and why so you know for next time. That was a gnarly one. Annie 20:01, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

Attribution question

Here is a proposed submission to add information to an existing title. I know we don't like to delete anything, but, the links really don't point to anything useful. evilgirlfriendmedia is a broken link. There is a website at a different address with no content. I would like to remove that link. The digital fiction link goes to their main page, not especially useful. Assuming the original attribution statement is true, I'm guessing that the first appearance under the new name was in 2016. The author only lists original publication dates on her website so there is no mention of the "Touring Test" title. What changes do you recommend? John Scifibones 20:02, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

We do not keep dead links - no point in that - but we do not remove one until we at least try to find it - web archive is your best friend.
So the first link should be replaced with its archive as it has the story there. And here is the second one archived. I swapped them. We also have that rare case where a later name becomes the canonical and that has implication on dating of the canonical. Let me approve your edit, swap the links and then try to find information on "AE: The Canadian Science Fiction Review, July 2013" full contents or add it with the single story - NOW it is actually eligible to be added to the DB since the webzines changes were done. Let me know if something does not make sense. Annie 20:25, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
Although if the author uses the original title, we probably should as well - so these links will need moving. Hm. Annie 20:31, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
I should have known to look in the archive, must have got a little hazy spending the afternoon entering all the missing issues and reviewing the existing ones. Are you suggesting something other than varianting "Touring Test" to "Off-Campus Housing"?John Scifibones 20:40, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
No - I was mostly typing before thinking - it is the same story and reversing the canonicals is really for special cases - not for every time someone changes a title :) And here it is - links moved, note rewritten to show reality and moved to the parent. Partial issue of AE added (will work on that some more later - the reorganization of their site when they came back live is a pain). Feel free to change/update if something looks off :) Annie 20:48, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
You beat me to it, here is Issue 10. I was just about to create it. Just wanted to clarify your previous answer before I did. lol John Scifibones 20:54, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
You can fill it in and fix it - sorry :) I just wanted to move the links where they belong before we lose them and forget all about it - not just the ones you had but the 10 or so tabs I had opened here while digging. If it was indeed in 12, that won't be the July issue so the title and date may need adjustment so now fixed (posted in July but part of Issue 12 so takes its date from it (which is Fall so probably 10 but who knows - will see if I can find definitive months on that one). Have fun! Annie 21:06, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

Eoin Colfer's The Fowl Twins|Get What They Deserve

Was just about to add the UK pubs for this, but wasn't sure whether to add as a pub to the existing title record, add a variant title, and/or alter the existing title record to match the UK data I'm seeing.

This is the third of a trilogy, for the middle one, "The Fowl Twins" has been omitted from the title, but you/Fixer had kept that prefix for the latest book. For the UK pub(s) of this new book, the only one of my sources that retains the prefix is Blackwells; Amazon, Kobo, Waterstones and all omit it. The title page does keep it, but IIRC there are plenty of cases where we have stripped the series name from the title field?

Not a big deal, but my pedantic instincts tell me it might be nice to sort out consistency - or explicitly agree to be inconsistent - before I add more pubs and make this more effort to unpick if it's determined I went the wrong way. ErsatzCulture 08:47, 29 October 2021 (EDT)

You leave it to Fixer and the title will be "The Fowl Twins Get What They Deserve (A Fowl Twins Novel, Book 3) (Artemis Fowl)" :)
That's one of those cases where I hate that English is an almost non-inflected language. Had it been a single protagonist or had that been in a language where verbs change, it would be clear if the title is meant to keep "The Fowl Twins" as part of the title in the second one: both "Deny All Charges" and "The Fowl Twins Deny All Charges" could work as titles. For this one "Get What They Deserve" on its own just sounds wrong (this "they" over there sounds ok only of you leave The Fowl Twins as part of the title). So I left it while mulling on it - one wonders if where it was stripped, it was not automation that did it. The rule is to strip it if it is there as a series name but leave it if it is an integral part of the title itself. See this series for example. "Isadora Moon Goes to School" is a title. "Goes to School" is half of a title - it is obvious that the name is supposed to be a part of the title. With these twins here, the language does not help you figure that one out.
So still not sure what to do with this one. Maybe I am overthinking it but that's why I left it that way. Annie 12:37, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
No worries. I'll submit the UK pub of the new novel shortly using the existing title, and will leave the arguably anomalous second book untouched. ErsatzCulture 15:48, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
:) Yeah - for a change I was not asleep on the helm when these happened. ;) Some are easy to figure out. Some are like that. I have half a mind putting back the Twins in the second as well and be done with it - I will look at some title pages later and see what I can figure out - including the UK pages for the third one - because the US one is not out for 4 more weeks. Annie 15:59, 29 October 2021 (EDT)


If I read your poorly spelled note right, you rejected the edit for Come Back, Dr. Caligari because Gorey is only the designer, but anyone with the slightest familiarity with his work would instantly recognize the cover as his. Many books have a design credit for books where the designer also did the cover art. Also, it's mentioned here,, and here,, where all of those covers are clearly Gorey's work but, as mentioned, none of them are signed. Entering another credit for Gorey is a big deal, but if you don't want it entered that's your problem. --Username 16:14, 29 October 2021 (EDT)

Your publication note reads:
  • ""Cover Design by Edward Gorey" on back cover of copy (which has a higher price ($1.25) on the cover; what year this edition is from is unknown)." (the submission.
If you think he is also the artist, that needs to be added to the notes together with a justification for it - pointing to the same image elsewhere, pointing to a common practice or something else. Had I approved your submission, the coverart record and the publication record would have contradicted each other - design credit does not lead to a coverart credit. Annie 16:24, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
I don't think he's the cover artist, he is the cover artist. I'm not re-entering all that info again; if you want it, take it, who really cares, I stopped caring months ago. --Username 16:40, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
It would be helpful for you to remember, Username, that everyone here is a volunteer (which you've mentioned several times when someone has asked you to do this or that). Annie can always unreject the edit so you can make the minor correction suggested (including notes about why the artist is Gorey), but you would need to agree to make that correction first. Getting upset because some information was left out of the initial submission is not helpful. Posting backhanded (or outright rude) comments is not helpful, either.
It's very frustrating to work with you because you take every (at least it seems that way) suggestion, correction, or other comment directed at you as an attack on you personally. You demand respect because of all the time you spend adding and cleaning up information here (which is true: you have spent a lot of time doing many things to improve ISFDB, and we definitely appreciate it). However, many other people have also spent a huge amount of time here adding and cleaning up information. Annie and Ahaseurus are some of the biggest contributors to the site, yet you consistently treat them like dirt. Please do whatever you need to do to adjust your attitude when working on ISFDB. We love the many, many contributions you've made, but you really need to learn to work with people rather than acting like you are the only reason anything is on the site.
All of us are working to improve the site, not just you. We all make mistakes, including you. If you can work to be a little less acidic when dealing with others, and can the attitude, we would all appreciate it. Again, you have made many, many very useful contributions to the site (the one that pops to mind first is the huge number of covers you've found, which is awesome). You are a very helpful contributor to the site, and have improved many things about it. It would make things run much more smoothly, though, if you could work with us rather than against us. Thanks. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:17, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
Leaving aside the fact that the reason I took on this defensive persona is because of the many hostile responses I got from moderators and other editors since my earliest editing days last December when I was just starting out and didn't know what I was doing, which puts the lie to your theory that I'm difficult to work with because of my attitude when in fact the attitude came about because of the difficulty of working with others here, not to mention the fact that in perusing the boards I've come across many threads dating back to long before I started editing here where many of the same people I have had negative dealings with had problems with other editors, including some editors cursing them out and/or deciding not to edit anymore, which clearly shows that the problem is not really me, the simple fact is the only reason I've continued doing this for quite a while now is to pass the time. Most of the mods, judging from their profiles, are European, so they may not be aware of this, but America, where I live, is rapidly going down the drain; our radical left government has made us the laughingstock of the world and things are getting worse by the day; people are starving, China is testing nuclear weapons, and the Jihadists are just waiting for the opportunity to recreate 9/11. So you arrogantly giving me a lecture about proper decorum like you're talking to a child is incredibly annoying; if you knew the stress I and my fellow Americans are constantly under these days you'd change your tune. --Username 20:01, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
As I pointed out back in April, we are a strictly bibliographic site. We do not let our individual political, national, ethnic, ideological and other non-bibliographic preferences affect what we do here. Moderators and editors are expected to treat other contributors equally regardless of their place of residence, background and preferences. Ahasuerus 21:31, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
So, as I see it, the way to solve this problem is not to respond to anyone here anymore about anything; starting from right now, any of my edits that get rejected will be ignored and I'll just move on to the next one. This is all assuming I will still be editing here much longer, since as I mentioned a few times recently I was ready to take a long break until a hurricane and Americans being warned not to travel because of terrorism foiled my plan; I was actually thinking earlier today that this Sunday, Halloween, would be a perfectly appropriate day to finally leave for awhile, so if my edits don't appear anymore then I succeeded. --Username 20:01, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
Well, I'm sorry to see you go if that's what you do. You really have contributed a huge amount to the site. And I'm sorry you took my comments as "talking to a child" as I was only trying to be polite. It's hard to convey meaning through only written words since you can't take cues from body language. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:25, 29 October 2021 (EDT)

The Cossack Review

I uploaded this image hoping it would help identify the format for The Cossack Review. Any thoughts? John Scifibones 21:02, 31 October 2021 (EDT)

"tp" - it is glued paperback, the size cannot be determined because there is no scale so we cannot figure out what of the standard formats would be the closest - that's why we have "tp" for magazines as well and not just for books. If an exact size is ever discovered, we can adjust - but tp is better than unknown in such cases. Annie 21:10, 31 October 2021 (EDT)
Thanks John Scifibones 21:14, 31 October 2021 (EDT)

Two different "Invasion" novels

A quick note about Jay Allan's Invasion, which you worked on last month. It turns out that it's the start of a new series and not another edition of the identically titled volume 9 in this prolific author's "Blood on the Stars" series. I have separated the two title records and added the other versions of the new books. (Clearly, there is a shortage of SF titles out there, so authors are forced to recycle.) Ahasuerus 20:56, 4 November 2021 (EDT)

Thanks. Would have become obvious when volume 2 showed up and I went looking for volume 1. :) Annie 00:16, 5 November 2021 (EDT)

Cover variations

What do I do with the cover for "Harry Potter och Hemligheternas kammare".
It is the same artist, but the font is different, thus rendering two
different covers. Should one be a variant of the other tho? or how do you
usually solve this? --Spacecow 09:37, 11 November 2021 (EST)

The Voyage of the Princess Ark

Annie, Thought I would work on a couple areas of the cleanup report. A couple days ago I submitted edits for the serialized novel "The Voyage of the Princess Ark". There are two edits for each installment. One that corrects the title to comply with standards. It also includes a link to the publication in which it occurs. (In fact it will open directly on the installment). The second edit links the serial title to the parent. Lastly, there is an edit stripping the month from the parent title. A couple days ago a moderator processed the first couple edits and stopped. The remaining 70 are just sitting there. Will you process these?

I'm assuming that you are a bureaucrat level moderator. I'm requesting the ability to moderate my own submissions. Thanks in advance for any action on the first request and your consideration on the second. John Scifibones 11:16, 11 November 2021 (EST)

I am not. And even if I was, that is a permission that is only granted after a community vote. It is a holiday week in the States - that usually adds a bit of a delay to everything. I’ll see what I can do for the submissions when I am in front of a computer - answering Talk from a phone is fine; working the queue is a bit too much. :). Annie 17:07, 11 November 2021 (EST)
PS: Looking at the board and seeing all of yours sitting there - you won't like that but I will say it - one of the reasons yours are still on the board while a lot of stuff after that had been handled is probably the hissy fit you threw at a moderator who was just trying to help you. Twice. Had you said anything like that to me, I would have responded with "That's a weird way to say thanks" the first time. The second time would have made me probably ignore any of your submissions for a very long time - we are all volunteers and having someone jump at your throat because you tried to help is unwarranted and a headache I do not need in my life.
Just part of the reasons maybe - we also have moderators who stay away from magazine submissions. Plus these needed a PV to be notified which is yet another reason for them to stay longer - they require some time to let you know and then react when you do what you should have done before submitting (see your page). As it is - some people may also be a bit wary of working on your submissions due to your reactions. If you need a moderator to know something, you put it in the moderator notes - you do not expect us to read your mind or know you are coming back. You did some research? Great - so did the moderator who handled your submission - we don't just rubber stamp things. Your records are not yours - anyone can work on them and improve them and you cannot corner a project and tell anyone else not to work on it - the same way you can improve any record you have data for. If you plan to add a different copy post approval or have a different edit, say so in the moderator notes - some moderators will leave you to it, some may decide to assist and do it for you (so you do not need to wait). Otherwise, anyone else can add it. Or change whatever needs changing.
I will go clear your old submissions now - but I hope that makes you think a bit on how things are seen from outside. They most likely stopped because they realized you failed to discuss with a PV and did not have time (or the inclination - see the above) to discuss that with you.
I like your work, I like how you interact with some other editors but this possessiveness and "that's my project, you are loosing my time by working on it" needs to stop before I personally contemplate a nomination for self-approving (I won't say no if it is proposed now, I will be neutral though). The fact that you were attempting to change PVd books with no notification does not make me feel any better about it either - if anything, it makes me want to vote no if it gets to that - noone will be able to stop you if you are self-approving. We work as a team :) . Annie 21:05, 11 November 2021 (EST)

Juvenile Chapbooks

In your comment to Chris_J, you mentioned that a "step was forgotten". I can find no mention of this 'step' in the Help. Am I missing something or is the Help? ../Doug H 08:22, 17 November 2021 (EST)

Depends on which help page you are talking about. The checkboxes you set on the container during creation (juvenile, novelization, non-genre, graphic) apply only to the chapbook title and do not get assigned to the contents - so you need to do that manually if required. And with chapbooks, these flags need to match. Juvenile chapbooks are the usual place where people tend to forget these - and there were quite a number of them from the last days - so I sent the reminder :) Annie 14:17, 17 November 2021 (EST)

Kris Longknife series order

Do you have any insight into why the series [5] has gaps in its numbering scheme? I'm about to PV my copies in the series, and noticed that you did some of the series # edits. Thanks. --GlennMcG 17:01, 19 November 2021 (EST)

I renumbered them according to the author's official site. I think the numbering before was from the Amazon series page. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:03, 19 November 2021 (EST)
But you did not finish the renumbering, leaving the last ones much higher than they should be based on the new numbering :) I think I got them all in order now but some of the later ones need swapping, feel free to. Adding a link to the place from where the order is coming is always recommended or someone WILL renumber them again. Annie 20:09, 19 November 2021 (EST)
I added a link to every title I edited. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:19, 19 November 2021 (EST)
But not on the overall series - by the time someone gets to the books you edited, they could have reordered half the series :) I added it up there to make clear where the order comes from. We are all set now I think. Annie 20:21, 19 November 2021 (EST)

Menna van Praag - The Night of Demons and Saints - delayed to 2022?

Just noticed this one whilst working on the missing UK pubs of the first in the series - B&N doesn't know about a hardback, but seems to think all the other pubs are due in 2022 (which seems to be the case for the UK pubs for this title). likewise thinks it's 2022 and has no hc listing, but I don't trust them not to show me distorted info when I'm visiting from a UK IP. The author's Twitter and website are infrequently updated, but make no mention of this title whatsoever; publisher site is also saying 2022/no hc.

I'll fix these apparently delayed (or cancelled?) US pubs as best I can in a couple of days if I don't hear back, but thought it best to ping you in case you can dig out any other info. ErsatzCulture 13:52, 20 November 2021 (EST)

Oh - that one. One of its editions was one of the first to get watchDate because the whole bundle looked ok (so I added them) but something felt off. I've cleaned them up, leaving the old hc ISBN with a note just in case someone decides to use Amazon (and Goodreads...) to re-add it. The audio ISBNs went back to Fixer so we do not loose them. Let's see when they show up next year :) Annie 19:16, 21 November 2021 (EST)

Variant mystery

I was hoping you might be able to explain why I cant make this Spanish title a variant of this title. The db states that the Spanish title is already a variant of another title, but I can't find an entry in the db that shows it. There is a French translation but no Spanish one. ThanksTAWeiss 19:57, 23 November 2021 (EST)

It is telling you that the English one is a variant, not the Spanish one and we do not support variant of variant so you need to use the parent title. The English title is a variant of this one. When you look at the English title see how it says that it is a variant? Click on the title there and you get the one I just linked. :) Annie 20:34, 23 November 2021 (EST)
Got it. Thanks! TAWeiss 20:43, 23 November 2021 (EST)

Cloning and a now incorrect title


I cloned Rich Horton's "The Year's Best Science Fiction & Fantasy 2017" trade paperback for the ebook version, see link at for the new ebook version.

I did notice that there was one feature of the cloned version TOC that is now incorrect. In the tp, there was a title " About the Authors" near the end. Upon checking the Kindle preview, this is now called "Author Biographies" in the ebook. Same place, same content, different title.

My first thought is that I could just delete this title from the ebook version, and then enter a new title. I suspect there might be a more elegant way of doing this.

Your insights and guidance are always helpful. Thanks.Dave888 00:05, 25 November 2021 (EST)

It can be done in 2 ways, none of them very elegant:
  • Remove title, PubEdit to add the new one and then variant the two.
  • Open the Essay and use Unmerge to unmerge the publication with the wrong title. Then edit the new title to change the name and variant again.
Same number of steps (remove and PubEdit can be submitted in parallel; in the second case rename and variant can be submitted in parallel. Make sure you add moderator notes explaining what you are doing either way. Annie 00:35, 25 November 2021 (EST)
I think I'll take the first choice - that seems to align a bit better with my inclinations. Thanks.Dave888 17:11, 25 November 2021 (EST)

Asimov non-fiction

I've been doing cross-checking to various sources and wanted to run some results by you before submitting for moderation, so I can enter and support them without giving moderators grief. The Italian translation of his A Short History of Biology seems well supported in OCLC, 11 entries covering 9 different dates. Google Books and Goodreads support some of these, the publisher supports 1, but sales sites are unreliable in that they all say the original 1969 date, even though they have 3 different covers (seller's image). They entries might be in either (or neither) of 2 different publisher series and pages are pretty reliable viii+159, 159 and 160. The only non OCLC formats go with images (one paper, one cloth), the OCLC is pretty consistent at 21 cm. One OCLC has no libraries (supported by Google though) and the others range from 1 to 6. I tried checking individual libraries to confirm, but my Italian is non-existent and the OCLC links to the libraries seem to go to central indexes with multiple overlapping copies.

So - do I enter a separate publication of the Italian translation for each OCLC supported years of issue? If I can't link images to specific years (although series helps with one many-to-many links), do I put the images in - even though they do support there being multiple printings? ../Doug H 17:10, 25 November 2021 (EST)

Sorry for the delay - I was trying to stay (mostly) off screens for a few days
As long as you document them. One thing to be careful with non-US OCLC records - sometimes they get the year of the record as the year of the book thus creating a record for a non-existing book. So I rarely rely on just OCLC for these unless their is a note for a later printing or something along these lines. I would probably add only the versions I am absolutely sure about but either way works. Annie 12:16, 29 November 2021 (EST)

Cyrillic transliteration question

I wanted to doublecheck a transliteration before I submit the edit. Is 'Odinochyestvo polookrovki' the correct transliteration for this title, Одиночество полукровки? Thanks for your help. John Scifibones 10:06, 1 December 2021 (EST)

Not really. :) “Odinochestvo polukrovki” would be better. While Odinochyestvo is closer to a transcription than a transliteration (still acceptable as one of the transliterations but I’d have the clear way as well), using oo instead of u for the second word is just weird (almost looks like an English speaker trying to do a transcription into English?). Also - transliterations differ per language on a few letters. None of them in this title though. Annie 10:36, 1 December 2021 (EST)
I wanted to try instead of just asking. Submitted as you recommend Thanks. John Scifibones 11:04, 1 December 2021 (EST)
No worries. Transliterations are easier if you can read the script usually - they are just 1/1 replacement of letters. Which is hard if you cannot recognize half the letters (not sure how much you read Cyrillic scripts actually) :) I don't tend to check the ones that already have them (unless I am there for something else and spot a problem); the ones without transliterations show up on a report so I work through them when I remember. Annie 12:35, 1 December 2021 (EST)

Publisher query on a possible export edition of Elizabeth Lim's Unravel the Dusk


I've got an edit in the queue with a mod note that it might be worth you double checking it. It's for a 2020 pub that Fixer apparently picked up from Amazon UK (although I thought at that time the Amazon UK API/feed had broken), with a publisher value of "Bantam Dell Publishing Group, Div of Random House, Inc", which you'd subsequently edited to "Bantam Books (UK)". As this has since had a UK edition from Hodder & Stoughton, my guess is that the earlier pub was an export edition, thus "Bantam Books (UK)" wouldn't be the right publisher? Also, per the mod note, Blackwell's and Waterstones list different PRH US imprints for that pub, so it's a bit of a mystery to me what the correct value would be, short of getting a copy of this pub in front of me.

No worries if you don't have time/inclination to look at this edit; I'm still slowing plugging away at the missing UK pubs for this title and its prequel... Thanks ErsatzCulture 11:38, 1 December 2021 (EST)

I've approved it. The Random House imprints can be a pain on their international editions - some of them go for a match, some go for Random House only and some do other weird things. No idea why I sent that one to the UK Bantam - something made me decide that's the correct one I guess (and it is possible that Bantam did the distribution before the UK edition came out thus confusing contemporary records even more by being named the publisher on the UK side.
The Amazon UK API is kinda working plus there is a scrapper and we do some magic on the backend but as you can see the data can be a bit... weird so we DO get some UK data - just less of it and usually later than the US side. Part of the problem with this one is that 978-0-593 appears to have been a valid prefix on both sides of the ocean for Random House imprints for awhile (Bantam Press in the UK carries it and various Random House imprints stateside) which is annoying - in a lot of cases the ISBN of major publisher's book is enough to tell you where to look. I will add it to the list of things to untangle - we are bound to have a few more assigned weirdly with this prefix through the years plus there may be a split on a lower position to help us. Annie 12:30, 1 December 2021 (EST)
Thanks - the Bantam UK value seemed specific enough that it seemed you'd deliberately entered it, so I was wary of blinding overwriting your edit :-)
BTW, I've only got a handful of Dec 2021 UK pubs to enter, so most of what I'll be submitting for the next week or two will be older pubs that had been missed, so no hurry on moderating those in the queue ... ErsatzCulture 17:14, 1 December 2021 (EST)
The way Fixer dates come sometimes, I can get a July 2021 UK book with January 2022 date from Amazon US. So I still clear yours before I work on Fixer. Annie 02:16, 2 December 2021 (EST)

Pending edits

I've had a few changes queued for a couple of days. I'm assuming that they are problematic for some reason. Should I cancel and re-think my changes? Thanks, Tom TAWeiss 17:41, 1 December 2021 (EST)

Nah. More likely just need some more time to look at so someone skipped them. We talk to people when things look weird. Will look at them in the morning. Annie 02:14, 2 December 2021 (EST)
Some of these will require also changes in the pubs and we do not change the title UNLESS it is printed that way. I put them on hold for a bit - will do some digging and see what we need to do to untangle this set of anthologies :) Annie 13:59, 2 December 2021 (EST)
They are all available on archive and google. I checked the title pages of the pubs that I changed. TAWeiss 10:02, 4 December 2021 (EST)

Replica/Minerva;; Cover image for Minerva's Doyle found and added from Open Library, saw note about Replica, found 1 Replica Doyle cover image also on Open Library which looks the same style as the Minerva, ISBN of Minerva's Doyle similar to several Replica ISBN's, might belong with them since note says Replica was originally entered as publisher here. --Username 21:43, 1 December 2021 (EST)

Sanderson & Patterson's Skyward Flight trilogy: novels rather than novellas?

Just submitted the UK pub of the final one of these, and thought it worth double checking the word counts on Kobo now that 2 of them are out. Turns out they have data on all 3 UK volumes - 49k, 62k and 63k words respectively, so all well into novel territory. It seems they have the same counts for the first 2 US pubs: 49k and 62k.

Do you have any other sources that might argue against switching all 3 of these to be novels? Kobo has the UK audios as being 5.4, 7 and 5 hours long - but (a) I don't know if those values are accurate/high enough to be novels, and (b) it seems curious the third audio is allegedly shorter than the others, despite having the longest word count?

NB: the publisher blurb for both UK and US pubs explicitly claims these are novellas, so at the very least it seems some sort of series and/or title notes might be in order - sigh.... ErsatzCulture 16:42, 3 December 2021 (EST)

See my note. I add based on pre-release information. If it calls itself a novella and I cannot find a good enough source to say something else, I add it based one on what I am told. As for the pre-release audio lengths - these can shift somewhat for a few publishers (which is why I use them only on notes for pre-release for these). For the first two - no notes from me because you added the first and you added the first version of the second... :) I was planning to check the whole series once the third is out (so the lengths stabilize online) but go ahead and switch them now if you want - with notes about the fact that they claim to be novellas. Not the first time that happens (in either direction)... Annie 16:51, 3 December 2021 (EST)
Thanks - will start on them over the weekend. ErsatzCulture 17:57, 3 December 2021 (EST)
Holler if you need help :) Annie 18:08, 3 December 2021 (EST)

Enemies of the System

Thanks for the help! I am running out of time, though I've got it -- almost. I am waiting for an answer here to decide what the exact title and author's name it is. There's also the possibility of a change in one of these fields (author name or exact title), depending on the response here. Thanks for the offer, Christian Stonecreek 13:44, 5 December 2021 (EST)

Anytime. When left in mid-change these produce a lot of chatter on the cleanup reports (especially the ones i try to catch as soon as new titles show up there) so I tend to try to make sure they are all done before their generation. If no responses come I’ll convert all remaining novels to chapbooks as they are now name- and author-wise and we can change them when we get answers. :) Annie 13:50, 5 December 2021 (EST)
I converted the last remaining novel pending further changes when the PV shows up and copied the translator to the Portuguese chapbook (easily forgotten step during these conversions - these keep popping up on the reports :)) Annie 22:30, 5 December 2021 (EST)
Thanks, Annie! Just waiting for the last straw, the respond by Spacecow to the remaining question. Christian Stonecreek 01:38, 6 December 2021 (EST)

rejected variant

Annie, please take another look at this submission which you rejected with the comment 'The other way around - the earliest publication becomes a parent.' The complete book and the 'partials' were all published at the same time. The cover for volume one is the same artwork as the complete book. It seems correct that the complete book should be the parent. John Scifibones 19:42, 6 December 2021 (EST)

2015-09-05 vs 2015-09-15 - there are 10 days difference. As these two are both covers, we literally go with the "first becomes a parent" rule regardless of naming - no "best known names" considerations as we have for text records. Or do you have a wrong date somewhere? Annie 19:47, 6 December 2021 (EST)
I had the wrong date on the complete book, ugh. This submission corrects the dates. Good catch. Thank you John Scifibones 20:00, 6 December 2021 (EST)
And with that I can unreject and approve :) Annie 20:15, 6 December 2021 (EST)

Spine Whine; Similarly to Arno's reprints, Twayne's info is often only on the spine; the cover is completely blank,, but title, author, publisher and ID # are all on the spine. Now we have another problem; the last photo on Amazon shows an actual cover, but only the mini-version; only other instance of that actual cover when I searched for the ISBN is here,, which is not an ISFDB-friendly site. So do you want to keep the spine which has all necessary info, replace it with the tiny Amazon image, or upload that unknown site's photo to our Wiki? --Username 23:31, 6 December 2021 (EST)

A messy Tor US pub from September

I've just submitted this, looks like there's a similar Tor US pub from September.

My guess is that the Tor US & UK ebooks were a rush job that didn't appear until after you/Fixer had processed September's books - the FAQ I linked in the title note indicates a fairly weird history. I dunno if Fixer can do anything retroactively for the Tor US ebook and/or dig out anything on the original self-pub version beyond what Goodreads can provide?

I'll try to make some sense of this one tomorrow if you don't get time/inclination before then. ErsatzCulture 19:10, 7 December 2021 (EST)

The paperback of the self-published one is also on so we can add it and I am sure that the ebook is in the ASIN stores of Fixer so I will get it from there. I will add them tomorrow. The only Tor US version already out is the ebook one; the Hardcover comes out in March. Which explains why it was missed - the ebook was just not there - Tor is one of the publishers that are always IN so probably delayed announcement and adding to Amazon. I will deal with these in the morning or later tonight if I can back to the DB. Annie 19:36, 7 December 2021 (EST)
Approved, added the self-published tp and the Tor US ebook. Will add the other ebook later. Pulled your cover though - it had "Cover to be revealed" across the middle which basically is NOT a cover but a placeholder. See if you can find a proper cover for the UK edition? Annie 19:58, 7 December 2021 (EST)
Uh, that is actually the (current) UK cover, per the Amazon preview and the sample I downloaded. Must confess I meant to check that prior to hitting submit, but forgot due to being distracted by adding the title note text; I had noticed that it was the image on the site though.
Unless you have any objections, I propose to restore that "temporary" image and add a pub note explaining that it genuinely is the (current) UK ebook cover. ErsatzCulture 06:41, 8 December 2021 (EST)
Not a cover that has “Cover to be revealed” unless you can verify that if you buy it, that’s what you get. Get a sample off Amazon Uk (I cannot as my account is stateside)? Samples always contain the cover. :) See what will come in. Look Inside is useful but not always updated so when something like that happens we use common sense and not follow secondary sources blindly. Then write some notes if needed. Annie 07:18, 8 December 2021 (EST)
"... per the Amazon preview and the sample I downloaded" ;-) ErsatzCulture 08:57, 8 December 2021 (EST)
It is 7 am here - my brain is half asleep :) Carry on then. Add notes. Annie 08:58, 8 December 2021 (EST)
No worries - I stumbled across this messiness around midnight last night, and I must confess my inclination was just to get the bare minimum (UK ebook) done, and to pass it off to someone else to properly sort out :-) ErsatzCulture 11:49, 8 December 2021 (EST)

Rick Riordan's Camp Jupiter Classified - not a subseries?

Hi, another just-before-midnight mystery I'm slippery-shouldering onto you I'm afraid....

Just looking at adding the UK pubs for this, and I'm not convinced this is a subseries as we currently have it modelled in the database. The title page of the UK ebook just has "Camp Jupiter Classified" on the title page; there doesn't seem to be any mention of "A Probatio's Journey" anywhere in the actual ebook, although it does appear in the product blurb on Amazon UK, Kobo and

Annoyingly Kobo (GB) doesn't have a preview available, so you'll probably have to take my word for it re. the UK content, given Amazon's propensity for delivering different content to international visitors? I can see that the US title page does have "Camp Jupiter Classified / A Probatio's Journey", which does support how this is currently stored in the DB.

[FWIW Goodreads has this as #4.5 of The Trials of Apollo series, and not as a subseries.]

As I have only the vaguest awareness of this author/series, I don't mind just doing the UK pubs as a variant titled "Camp Jupiter Classified", but I thought it worth checking in in case you might want to change the existing title/US pubs/series if you think it's probably not a subseries on closer examination? ErsatzCulture 18:58, 9 December 2021 (EST)

Until we see if there will be a second book, it is unclear if this will be a one off or a real subseries. Goodreads can classify any way they want - someone in there made a decision based on the available data the same way I did when I added this one. I still think it should stay as a subseries at least for now - Riordan rarely leaves books on their own. And it won't be the first time when the US and UK use different titles or where one uses the series name and the other a subtitle or worse. Annie 10:35, 10 December 2021 (EST)

The Dream Gatherer

Please see the moderator note on this submission. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:53, 25 December 2021 (EST)

Let me get back on a proper screen tomorrow and will look at that - the title rings a bell so I may have a note about it somewhere. Annie 17:27, 27 December 2021 (EST)
Sorted out. Thanks for pinging me :) Annie 11:18, 28 December 2021 (EST)