User talk:Nihonjoe/Archive 14

Nihonjoe's Talk Archives

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Monster Hunter Files

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?630165; I added LCCN ID and Archive.org link (uploaded last August) in a (pending) edit, but it's 319 pages, not 313. Does that need fixing? --Username (talk) 08:38, 16 February 2023 (EST)

I'll have to go look at my copy. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:29, 28 February 2023 (EST)

N. Conde

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL37763150M/Satsujin_mania_no_otoko; I've been entering edits for Nicholas Conde books and came across this, in case you want to enter it. --Username (talk) 19:59, 17 February 2023 (EST)

Done! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe

Shared Nightmares

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5593594; The co-editor and the last 4 stories were missing so I entered those. --Username (talk) 12:10, 27 February 2023 (EST)

Thanks! Approved. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:46, 28 February 2023 (EST)

John Howard

Thank you for creating the disambiguations so promptly. JohnHoward (talk) 18:31, 16 March 2023 (EDT)

You're welcome. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:33, 16 March 2023 (EDT)

Japanese Brains of Rats

https://www.worldcat.org/title/675616394; I came across something today that said Blumlein's collection won't be reprinted in the Paperbacks From Hell Line because his widow won't allow it so I added a few ID to fill out what's already here and came across that edition linked above in case you feel like entering it. --Username (talk) 20:17, 25 March 2023 (EDT)

Added here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:41, 27 March 2023 (EDT)

No Flying in the House, illus Wally Tripp

Hi. I'm sure you made some mistake 2021-03-29 re two 1982 publications of 1970 novel No Flying in the House T29895 as Harper Trophy. ISBN 0-06-440130-8 fits Harper Trophy 1982. Unfortunately Amazon.com now reports 1970 (must be 1st ed. of the work) and 2020 50th Anniversary edition for the two ISBN.

There must be some clues in our attributions of No Flying in the House artwork to illustrator Wallace Tripp: 3 cover art Titles as 1970 and 1 interior art as 1982.

(I doubt all reports of 1980s Harper Trophy pb, and surmise this book doesn't belong, while the 1986/88/89 are tp.) --Pwendt|talk 10:39, 26 March 2023 (EDT)

I'm unclear about what you're wanting here. The only one I've seen is this one. I need to use my copy (which I now have) to verify its details. Other than that, I don't know what you're looking for. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:16, 27 March 2023 (EDT)

I made a bunch of edits recently, starting with https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5620256, that are still pending which will clear up some of the confusion but there's still a lot left. --Username (talk) 11:28, 27 March 2023 (EDT)

Nihonjoe, you are the last editor of both reported 1982 Harper Trophy, 1982-00 which gives no source at all (now looks to me, you only removed an obviously wrong cover image), and 1982-08 with surprise data which gives no source but Amazon.com undated. (By the way, cover image credits Illus. by WTripp --but front cover without Harper branding is a surprise.)

Now I understand you will complete one of the two records, having a copy of the book, right? [our record of the 50th Anniversary hc P829905] And Username has worked on some publications of the novel. So I will wait. --Pwendt|talk 19:17, 27 March 2023 (EDT)

I see that I read the Edit histories hastily. On second look, and covering more No Flying publication records:

1. Wallace Tripp has so outlandish an assortment of No Flying cover illustrations because on that day, by oversight or presumption, you credited the Amazon "Illustrator" with coverart rather than interiorart. So I want you to do the opposite: INTERIORART, with a note if COVERART is inferred.
2. "pb" or "tp" must also be a common presumption, or an extension of what (we think) we know about a publisher/imprint. Amazon commonly reports no size. For ISFDB No Flying softcovers, today by ASIN or ISBN, Amazon.com reports size only for the one it has redated from 1982 to 2020. (It reports simply "Paperback" thruout I don't know what "Mass Market Paperback" means at Amazon, when it is used correctly there.) Probably our database should be refined use "mp" and "tp" for mass and trade, and "pbk" for paperback. --Pwendt|talk 10:25, 28 March 2023 (EDT)

"Outlandish" is a pretty outlandish use of the word. He's only credited with the original cover art as well as the interior art. Regarding your confusion of types of books, I can't really help you there. Here, "pb" means mass market paperback (and some smaller formats) and "tp" means trade paperback. It's explained pretty well here, including sizes. And Amazon has a "Dimensions" field for most books, especially newer books. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:07, 28 March 2023 (EDT)

My edits were approved, thanks. Forgot to mention the 2 cover art removals of Tripp were actually done by the Filipino artist Macky Pamintuan, who I have a pending edit for adding a photo and a few other things, in case anyone gets around to doing more with these books and wants to add his name if they can figure out which edition was the first with that cover art. Also re: Tripp, https://www.etsy.com/listing/689308766/1966very-rarehildy-and-the-cuckoo, which supposedly is rare (no copies on Archive.org) but I notice the LCCN is different than the one on ISFDB (and philsp.com); not sure why, but that info may come in handy if anyone works on that book. I would guess he also did the cover art but isn't credited here. --Username (talk) 11:25, 28 March 2023 (EDT)

Scott Smith

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?38521; Can you check what names are used for that intro? That Smith isn't the same one as the horror author who wrote The Ruins. There should be a way to differ them. The anthology containing the intro says it was edited by Scott S. and Vickie, not Vicki, Smith, so her name is different, too. --Username (talk) 19:05, 7 April 2023 (EDT)

I'll have to look at it when I get home. I suspect they simply used different names on the intro if it's not a typo. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:22, 10 April 2023 (EDT)

Okay, I sorted out their works and added "(screenwriter)" to the horror writer. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:54, 11 April 2023 (EDT)

Eyes of Prey

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5557200; Because there's an Author Afterword in the Archive.org copy, a link to which was added, by me. But I'll ask him anyway. --Username (talk) 20:35, 11 April 2023 (EDT)

Thank you. Please let me know when he's been able to pull the book from storage to check it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:51, 12 April 2023 (EDT)

Risk Takers

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?537224; According to contents page on Amazon "Gamblers Fallacy" should be "Gambler's" and Geddes' story is by Cindie, not Cindy. Those are the only mistakes I noticed. --Username (talk) 08:32, 17 April 2023 (EDT)

I'll double check those tonight when I get home. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:38, 17 April 2023 (EDT)

Fixed. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:21, 18 April 2023 (EDT)

Doomsday Book

Regarding Doomsday Book: The collector's notes in this publication are by James Gunn per comparison of a Ebay photo of the notes and Gunn's Paratexts which reprints the notes. I have imported an uncredited essay which is varianted to one as by Gunn. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:31, 22 April 2023 (EDT)

Okay. I'll have to check my copy to see what's in it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:28, 24 April 2023 (EDT)

I've added some note clarifications and added page numbers for the parts prior to the numbered pages. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:12, 26 April 2023 (EDT)

Re: Novelization

This is tangential to the Portal discussion, so I'm posting on your User Talk. My reference to movie was that you had replaced movie with script/screenplay, suggesting the movie itself was not an option. I was advocating for something more like "movie, script or screenplay". My apologies for not being clearer. ../Doug H (talk) 08:16, 26 April 2023 (EDT)

That's the thing: I didn't replace it. I added some additional wording prior to "movie". My suggestion was "novelization of the screenplay or script of a movie, TV show, game, or other non-written work". I didn't remove any of the current wording, but rather added the bold part. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:13, 26 April 2023 (EDT)

It's amazing what primary school concepts come back to haunt in old age. Your suggested text changed the noun movie to the noun-pair screenplay or script and made movie an adjective that modifies them. To me, this is replacing the subject of the sentence from movie to screenplay/script. This revised wording suggests that making a novelizations directly from movies without a script or screenplay was not allowed (as with Luana), and that scripts from plays were also excluded (e.g. Peter Pan), which may or may not have been your intention. The discussion of proper wording can continue in the forum(s), I just wanted to take the discussion of my use of replace aside as it really has no bearing on the actual discussion. ../Doug H (talk) 14:09, 26 April 2023 (EDT).

You're being disingenuously pedantic. The word "movie" was not replaced, in any sense of the word. I simply added additional words before "movie". Nowhere did I explicitly discuss nouns or adjectives in any of that, and neither did you until just now. And, as I stated, plays are not excluded (I specifically addressed that in my comments). They fall under the "other" in the full sentence. Not sure why you seem to have this particular bee in your bonnet, but it's not productive. My comments were very clear and you're purposely taking things out of context and trying to imply I did something which I clearly did not do. Please drop it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:58, 26 April 2023 (EDT)

A Hero for Wondla

Hello,

All the other novels (titles and publication titles) in this series has the L in WondLa capitalized: the second had a mix of the two. I've fixed the rest but as this one is verified by you, I am stopping by to check if you mind if I fix it (or you can). Thanks! Annie (talk) 15:50, 26 April 2023 (EDT)

Fixed. Just a typo. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:54, 26 April 2023 (EDT)

Thanks! Annie (talk) 16:04, 26 April 2023 (EDT)

Eiko Mutsuhana's "Return from Death" novels

When you have a moment, could you please review this series by Eiko Mutsuhana/六つ花えいこ ? The subtitle of the English translations of volume 1 includes the word "Boyfriend" while the subtitle of volume 2 includes the word "Girlfriend". Since I don't know Japanese and haven't been able to find the originals on Amazon JP, I can't tell if one or both of our parent titles may be wrong. TIA! Ahasuerus (talk) 20:52, 6 May 2023 (EDT)

It looks like that's correct, though the Japanese title doesn't indicate that. I would have translated it as "Lover" instead of "Boyfriend" or "Girlfriend", but I can see why they did it. The first book is from her perspective, and the second is from his perspective. I've added transliterations for them. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:59, 8 May 2023 (EDT)

Thanks! Ahasuerus (talk) 17:55, 8 May 2023 (EDT)

Conquest Through Determination

https://clairegillian.com/2012/06/04/conquest-through-determination-releases/; I think the Nessie story has wrong title and author. --Username (talk) 13:14, 7 May 2023 (EDT)

Yup, just a couple typos. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:18, 7 May 2023 (EDT)

Thank you for Stanley C. Sargent Work

Hello - I just wanted to thank you for all the work you did tracking down Stanley C. Sargent and Cosmic Visions! It was a sight to behold, and I will connect you with any additional information I'm able to find. --MagusManders (talk) 14:40, 8 May 2023 (EDT)

No problem. And I appreciate your offer. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:50, 8 May 2023 (EDT)

Stanley Sargent Date

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5662347; I've been adding Mythos Online links to his stories but this one may need an earlier date because, from his bibliography:

• "Tentaclaws Is Coming (Undrowned)"

  w/accompanying illustration (written & drawn, 12/95)

  Personal: Christmas card (1995)

  Fanzine: "Crypt of Cthulhu" #? (c. 1998)

  Magazine: "The Active Page" magazine, August 2005 issue (ApplePie Press, Vancouver, B.C., Ralph Griffiths, ed.)

  Book: THE TAINT OF LOVECRAFT (Mythos Books, 2002)".

That's why it has a 1995 date on the Mythos Online page, because it was a Christmas card, and I assume the Crypt of Cthulhu appearance either didn't happen or they confused it with the online site. What that Active Page thing is I have no idea. --Username (talk) 12:16, 11 May 2023 (EDT)

I've updated the date to just 1998-00-00 since I can't find verify which Crypt of Cthulhu issue it was in. I left a note on the title page for that poem. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:22, 15 May 2023 (EDT)

Violet LeVoit

For the author credit on page 67 of Walrus Tales, would you mind double checking the space in the last name? I see on the back cover (via Amazon photo) it does not have a space. If it does appear with a space on the title page, then we need an alternate name established to Violet LeVoit. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:37, 15 May 2023 (EDT)

I'll check when I get home. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:50, 15 May 2023 (EDT)

I couldn't find it quickly tonight, but I'll keep looking. I know it's here somewhere. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 02:13, 16 May 2023 (EDT)

Found it. It looks like there's a space in the TOC (though I'm not sure it's actually a space...it might just be a weird kerning issue), but there definitely isn't on on the story itself. Fixed. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:34, 17 May 2023 (EDT)

Federations

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?278966; I added Archive.org link; James Thew credited for "backcover art" on copyright page, he's got 2 credits on ISFDB, maybe he should be added to this. --Username (talk) 23:26, 15 May 2023 (EDT)

I'll take a look. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 02:13, 16 May 2023 (EDT)

Okay, I've updated it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:03, 17 May 2023 (EDT)

WotF Dates

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?184405; Locus says Sep '92 [Aug '92] in case you want to enter the month. EDIT: https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?55527; Locus says September. --Username (talk) 10:12, 20 May 2023 (EDT)

I'll check on these. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe

Live Free or Die

Just a note that I fixed a capitalization issue ("or" was recorded as "Or") on your verified. Annie (talk) 15:24, 23 May 2023 (EDT)

Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:38, 24 May 2023 (EDT)

Omni Book of Space

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5672939; I've been fixing Zebra Books to correct name that includes Kensington, including your PV. --Username (talk) 00:12, 24 May 2023 (EDT)

Okay, I'll check my copy to see if it matches the submitted change. I've placed the submission on hold while I do that. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:39, 24 May 2023 (EDT)

幽霊殺人

Hello Joe,

Can you look at this one and add transliterations where needed (and fix anything I messed up). I was working from Russian and Japanese sources and I think all I got from the Russian side checks out on the Japanese one but as I do not speak or read Japanese, I'd appreciate a second look. Fantlab has scans of the covers and the title page - the back cover has a price but I am not sure if it is for a later printing (as I cannot read this title page) so I left the price empty. Can you fill that in as well if it makes sense? Thanks! Annie (talk) 18:24, 24 May 2023 (EDT)

I think I got everything. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:20, 25 May 2023 (EDT)

So the price on that back cover was valid. Good to know for next time :) Thanks! Annie (talk) 20:28, 25 May 2023 (EDT)

Yeah, the copyright page had only a first printing line, so it's the first printing. There would have been more printing lines if it was a later printing. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:07, 26 May 2023 (EDT)

Portuguese titles capitalisation / rationalisation

Hello, as you indicated that you can work in Portuguese, I'm inviting you to have a look at this discussion on the Rules and standards board. Kev. --BanjoKev (talk) 16:00, 31 May 2023 (EDT)

Mr. Diabolo

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5679944; Rare novel never reprinted in USA but apparently was in Japan, https://www.worldcat.org/formats-editions/22406671, in case you want to enter that. --Username (talk) 13:36, 1 June 2023 (EDT)

Done. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:01, 1 June 2023 (EDT)

Let My Edits Go

After sitting in my list for months you've looked at some of my old edits and rejected a few of them. I notice you rejected 2 of the Sturgeon title fixes where I removed series that editors over the years randomly included as part of the title, which took me a good amount of time to do, but then you made your own edits doing the same thing you rejected my edits for and including the same cover replacement and Archive.org link I had included for 1 of them. Then you accepted every other Sturgeon edit I made, all 16 of them. Did you realize you made a mistake with those first 2 and, if so, why didn't you just un-reject them? Now it will look to anyone who comes after that you started off fixing the titles and I came along and did the rest. Also, every Leisure Books book since the mid-80s is by Leisure and Dorchester; it says so on every copyright page, "Published by Dorchester Publishing"; that's how ISFDB differs them from the 70s/early 80s Leisure which were published by Nordon. There are many, many more that say Leisure on ISFDB that need changing to Leisure and Dorchester and I've been trying to do that. I see you rejected 4 of those so far. Please un-reject them. --Username (talk) 18:53, 1 June 2023 (EDT)

The Unreject link wasn't showing up anywhere I looked at the submissions (in the list of recent edits, on the submission itself), so I had to redo them. No one will care who did the edits. Regarding the Leisure Books, we go by what's on the title page, not the copyright page. On all of those, the title page showed only Leisure Books (as I explicitly stated in the rejection). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:57, 1 June 2023 (EDT)

For the Leisure books, you can add a note about them being through Dorchester. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe

I care. Doing this for no pay and having to deal with the other people here is only made palatable by knowing how much I've added and fixed here in such a short amount of time. What you could have done is let me know you couldn't un-reject them and I would have done them again, 2 very simple edits that would have taken just a few seconds. As for the Leisure books, none as far as I'm aware say Dorchester on the title page, only on the copyright page. Dorchester is the publisher, Leisure is the imprint. If you really think your way is correct then hundreds of other books will need changing. I suggest you ask other mods about this before any more are needlessly rejected because I've done many of these before and they've been accepted by several different mods. Also, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5640116, I asked PV Ofearna about this a month-and-a-half ago under "MZBF Story" and she responded with her usual strange and unhelpful answer, not really saying whether her copy agrees with what I asked her. Regardless, the title as I changed it to is how it really is in the magazine. EDIT: I picked RTrace from the list of active PV to ask about the note date fix for Doomsman / Telepower because he usually responds to messages and this, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5647611, I asked about also although I don't expect a response because the last message by PV on their page was nearly 3 years ago. --Username (talk) 19:11, 1 June 2023 (EDT)

Problem being that you whine and complain anytime you perceive someone "making" you do more (even though everyone here is a volunteer). You whine and complain about almost everything you do here.

Regarding the publisher, current practice is using the publisher as shown on the title page. If that's changed, I'm not aware of it. Perhaps this needs to be discussed on the rules and standards page. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:35, 1 June 2023 (EDT)

I can't imagine why I would complain; everyone here is so polite and mentally stable and things are run so smoothly and professionally, right? You also seem to not be aware of a lot of standard things that even I, a person without any of the credentials most of the editors here proudly display on their pages with endless lists of the number of books they own and how they've been collecting for decades and their resumes and where they went to school and on and on but most of them can barely spell or use proper grammar and enter their info here with endless mistakes that I've had to correct thousands and thousands of times over the last 2 1/2 years, am aware of; I seem to recall other times where you worked on my edits and rejected some of them when they were in fact correct. You admitted the 2 Sturgeon edits you rejected shouldn't have been, you'll soon find out the 4 Leisure edits you rejected shouldn't have been, the story title change was clearly asked about on the mod's page but you apparently couldn't find it, the rejection of the edit changing a clearly wrong date in the notes will be un-rejected as soon as RTrace responds, and the cover change for Rebel Moon you rejected was clearly correct because the price entered and the price on the cover match and it's just a simple case of lazy editors grabbing covers off Amazon without making sure they're the right ones, one of the most common fixes that I've made countless times here, and Dwarzel likely isn't going to respond, anyway, because he hasn't responded to anyone else for years. So that's the problem; not that my edits are being rejected but that all of them were rejected incorrectly. --Username (talk) 20:04, 1 June 2023 (EDT)

That's the thing, though. We have the verification system in place for a reason. Just because you think something is correct doesn't make it actually correct. Thousands of printings of books have been released with the same cover price as previous printings, but they have slightly different covers. So, just because the price matches doesn't mean it's actually the same printing.

That's why you are required to contact the PVs when making a substantial change to a verified publication. You need to learn that, and despite being advised of that policy dozens of times now, you refuse to play by the established rules. Whether it's convenient for you or not is irrelevant. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. Whether you are God's gift to ISFDB or not is irrelevant. You must follow the policies here, same as everyone else. If you don't like one of them, start a discussion on the rules and standards discussion page. Rules are not easily changed, but they do change and have changed over the years. Starting that discussion is the only way to do that, however.

We all need to follow the those policies in order to have relatively stable and agreeable interactions with everyone here. The rules/policies give all of us a baseline of what we need to do, and we can't have individual editors haring off on their own and totally (or randomly) ignoring them. That makes it much more difficult for everyone else. If you can't find it in your heart to follow them, then perhaps ISFDB isn't the best place for you to spend your time.

As you've stated, you've made a lot of contributions here. We all appreciate that, and we all understand the amount of work that goes into that to one degree or another. We are all volunteering our time here, and we all understand that anyone who spends their time updating and adding and fixing things here could very well choose to spend their time elsewhere. We get it, even if you don't think we do. We simply need you to stop being a jerk to everyone you interact with here. We all have our bad days, and sometimes we do and say things that we later regret. However, you need to at least try to drop the arrogant attitude you display in almost every interaction here. While we're appreciative of the work you've done, we frankly don't like having you rub it in our faces every other day. That you've contributed several tens of thousands of edits here is irrelevant. We appreciate every editor's contributions, whether they do one or two here and there or whether they've made nearly half a million contributions. Every valid submission is welcome.

So, please drop the infallibility act. Not all of your edits are acceptable. You do make mistakes. You do forget to follow the policies here. And that's okay. But please make an effort to follow them. Will it take an extra minute or two each time? Yes, but it will save all of us a lot of hassle and extra work if you do things correctly the first time. It will make everything run a lot more smoothly in the long run. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:36, 2 June 2023 (EDT)

As per ISFDB:Policy#Appeals_Policy, "Decisions made by moderators can be appealed on ISFDB:Moderator noticeboard." Please post your objections there if you disagree with Nohonjoe's decisions.

Re: the ability to unreject submissions, the "Unreject" link is available on the "Public View" page and on the "Recent Rejections" page. However, the "Unreject" option is not available on the regular Moderator View" page. I'll add it to my list of things to. Ahasuerus (talk) 21:51, 1 June 2023 (EDT)

Done. Ahasuerus (talk) 16:16, 2 June 2023 (EDT)

Re: your sarcastic comment that "everyone here is so polite and mentally stable", it's the second time in the last 4 weeks that you question other editors' mental health. The last time you were warned not to do it and not to engage in personal attacks. Please reconsider this pattern of behavior.

In addition, I note the following comment that you made on the Community Portal two weeks ago:

• Half the "fun" of editing here, for me, is waiting for a mod to look at my edits and then decide whether to approve them (50,000 and counting, in the top half-dozen all-time for a non-mod/non-self-approver and the only one who still edits regularly except for "Fixer" which is a robot and doesn't really count), especially when they claim something was wrong when it actually wasn't and then think they can argue with me. If I'm lucky sometimes they even apologize when they find out they made a mistake. Doing Reginald seems entirely pointless if there's no approval needed.

This is a very antagonistic approach, which can only lead to conflict. It falls under the prohibition on "non-constructive or disruptive" conduct, which is not allowed as per ISFDB:Policy#Conduct_Policy. Again, please reconsider the approach. Our goal has always been to get new editors up to speed so that they could become at least self-approvers, thus making both them and the moderator crew more productive. Ahasuerus (talk) 21:51, 1 June 2023 (EDT)

None of that PC HR talk changes the fact that all of the edits rejected shouldn't have been; if they weren't rejected none of this would have happened. Earlier today I let the same mod know I had entered a book that had a Japanese edition and they entered it with no problem. What happened between then and now I don't know but if you think I'm going to let anyone disrespect me just because I question their rejection of my edits you're sadly mistaken. And it's Nihonjoe, not Nohonjoe. --Username (talk) 22:03, 1 June 2023 (EDT)

The path of personal attacks and antagonizing other editors that you are following has already resulted in some moderators no longer working on your submissions. It can only lead to escalating penalties as per ISFDB:Policy#Conduct_Policy, ultimately resulting in an indefinite block. Please reconsider. Ahasuerus (talk) 23:23, 1 June 2023 (EDT)

Starfire

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5665530; It mentions Starfire logo on copyright page and second page says "Other Bantam Starfire Books you will enjoy" so this is a Starfire book but I'm not willing to argue about it. Here's a random Starfire book which mentions logo but not other books, https://archive.org/details/amongshadowstale00mont, and yet it's Starfire on ISFDB. So all these rejections are going to screw up standardizing publisher imprints and lead to many books being under the wrong publisher, but that's not my problem. --Username (talk) 16:20, 2 June 2023 (EDT)

That's all true, but standard practice is to use what is on the title page, regardless of anything anywhere else. If all the other books are the same way, then they were entered incorrectly and will need to be corrected. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:55, 2 June 2023 (EDT)

I'm just going to mention that doing so would be a really bad idea, because there are thousands of publishers where imprint/publisher is used even when the publisher isn't on the title page. I don't think you can find a single one of the hundreds of Leisure Books post-1982 that are on ISFDB, and likely none of the non-genre books that aren't on here, that actually say Dorchester on the title page. The nightmare of going through every book on ISFDB that's by Leisure and Dorchester and changing them all to Leisure, having to contact all the PV of which there are very many, some of which have been gone for years, is not worth it. I believe only the 2 60s books and the very early 70s books can legitimately be standalone Leisure books, everything from then to 1981-1982 says published by Nordon and everything after that says published by Dorchester. So what needs to be done is for several people, since this is a pretty big job, to go through "Leisure Books" and change everything from 1982-on to Leisure and Dorchester, being careful with the earliest ones because I'm not sure when the exact switch to Dorchester happened; of the books by Leisure and Dorchester currently only 1 is probably wrong, 1980's Killer Satellites. I don't have any real interest in this stuff like many of you do and likely won't be editing here much longer but I'm telling you that you're going to open a can of worms if you try changing stuff that doesn't need to be changed. --Username (talk) 18:46, 2 June 2023 (EDT)

That's been the policy for as long as I can remember. If one (or more) is entered differently, it should be a rare exception and clearly documented in the notes as to why it's an exception. If you think the policy is wrong, then a discussion needs to happen on the Rules and Standards discussion page so all the details can be ironed out and everyone can be aware of the change (if any). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:06, 5 June 2023 (EDT)

Kurodahan Asamatsu

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5692125; After my edit's approved you might want to look at this since PV is gone and there could be some things to add/fix. EDIT: There's 1 other book by him, https://archive.org/search?query=ken+asamatsu, that I don't think is on ISFDB. --Username (talk) 11:18, 14 June 2023 (EDT)

It's already here (since 2018), though he only has a short story in it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:20, 3 July 2023 (EDT)

Yu Miri

Hello,

When you have a chance can you figure out the originals of Yu Miri's books and add the Japanese editions (and probably flip the canonical to her Japanese name). Tokyo Ueno Station is JR上野駅公園口 but I cannot find the "The End of August" original title so figured I will just ask you if you do not mind figuring out both and fixing the whole author. Thanks! Annie (talk) 19:58, 27 June 2023 (EDT)

✓ Done here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:26, 29 June 2023 (EDT)

Thanks! :) Annie (talk) 17:42, 29 June 2023 (EDT)

"Rokusyou Usuasagi" -- one author or two?

Yen On has published this novel, which credits "Rokusyou • Usuasagi" on the cover and "Rokusyou and Usuasagi" on the title/copyright page. I have found and entered the Japanese original, but I am not sure whether "緑青・薄浅黄" is one person or two. Would you happen to have a way of telling what's going on here? TIA! Ahasuerus (talk) 15:53, 2 July 2023 (EDT)

It's two authors. I've cleaned it all up. See here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:20, 3 July 2023 (EDT)

Thanks! Ahasuerus (talk) 15:30, 3 July 2023 (EDT)

Wikipedia-ish question about anonymous edits there

Hi, I think you are or were active on Wikipedia? Can I ask your opinion on something that's somewhat Wikipedia related?

The Worldcon in Memoriam Twitter account has just reported that artist Peter Goodfellow died on 2022-12-11. Whilst I guess that account is somewhat official, and I've never seen it misreport anything before, I can't find any corroboration for that date in Google search results, or even that he's definitely passed away.

The sole exception is that there was a Feb 2023 edit to his Wikipedia page, to say that he died some time in 2022. The edit is just attributed to an IP address, which I assume is an unlogged in user. That IP doesn't seem to be associated with any other edits.

How trustworthy are such edits, in your opinion. For something as potentially sensitive as deaths, I personally am reluctant to make an edit without a couple of moderately independent and trustworthy sources. Thanks ErsatzCulture (talk) 12:56, 8 July 2023 (EDT)

Never mind, just tried a different search term, and found a death notice. Although it has a middle name not in the DB here or Wikipedia, and says nothing about him being an artist, the location matches where the Wikipedia page said he lived. Sorry for blathering on before thoroughly checking stuff :-( ErsatzCulture (talk) 13:03, 8 July 2023 (EDT)

Good find! Generally speaking, anonymous edits are just as acceptable on Wikipedia as logged-in edits, as long as a reliable source is used. That twitter account is likely more reliable than some others. Let me know if you have any other questions. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:05, 10 July 2023 (EDT)

Yumi and the Nightmare Painter ebook public release

You've PVed the Kickstarter epub here. Amazon UK and Kobo (GB) have ebooks with today's date. (If those links don't work on your side of the Atlantic, I imagine there are similar ebooks on the respective US sites.)

Based on the content visible in the previews for those ebooks, they seem to be identical to what you've documented in your PV. As such, I'm inclined to add the ASIN to that record, and note the later pub date for those site, and the fake Kobo ISBN of 1230006019518, as opposed to adding a second ebook record. Does that seem reasonable to you?

I just checked back to the previous secret project ebook, which I had a recollection of submitting. It seems there was only an entry for the PDF ebook, which similarly was 10 days earlier than the "public" release. Does that maybe merit similar changes if there was a Kickstarter version of that format? Thanks ErsatzCulture (talk) 09:24, 11 July 2023 (EDT)

I only have the Kickstarter versions, so I couldn't offer any insigt as to whether the UK releases are the same or different. If you don't have them, I'd suggest creating separate publications for the UK/Kobo releases. If they turn out to be identical, we can always combine them. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:21, 11 July 2023 (EDT)

Sorry, I only just realized after looking at my local TODO list that I never responded to your response. FWIW, these ebooks are published by Dragonsteel Enterprises, and I'm 99.99% certain they are identical between the UK and US - the ASIN is the same, so it would be weird if they aren't. (The physical general market releases are from Tor (US) and Gollancz (UK), but IIRC they are a few weeks from release, at least the UK one is.) The Amazon.com page is here, could you possibly take a quick look at the preview and see if it matches your copy? Annoyingly the preview doesn't include the copyright page, which might settle the matter unambiguously. Thanks ErsatzCulture (talk) 17:48, 13 July 2023 (EDT)

I spoke with the lead editor at Dragonsteel, and he said the releases are pretty much identical (some minor errors were fixed and some ads were added at the end). So yes, merge the Dragonsteel releases from the Amazons into the Kickstarter epub release (not the PDF release, as that one has page numbers and the epub does not). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:23, 14 July 2023 (EDT)

Much appreciate you going the extra mile on this one. I'll sort it all out tonight, if only because I want the ASIN in the database before Saturday's download, and I can sync my local data against it. Thanks again. ErsatzCulture (talk) 13:48, 14 July 2023 (EDT)

No problem. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:40, 14 July 2023 (EDT)

I guess you'll have received a PV notification, but I've just updated it. Added extra para for with the Amazon etc details, plus ASIN and BN IDs. Hopefully that's the end of it... at least until the next secret project comes out ;-) ErsatzCulture (talk) 17:57, 14 July 2023 (EDT)

Guy Anthony ?

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?951203; All other works by DeMarco are as by De Marco; is this one really DeMarco or should it have a space? --Username (talk) 13:24, 25 July 2023 (EDT)

No idea. I don't have a copy of that. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:38, 25 July 2023 (EDT)

I take that back. The editor sent me a pic of the table of contents, where the name is "DeMarco", with no space. I've varianted it now. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:51, 25 July 2023 (EDT)

Tiny Dragons

Just heads up on an author disambiguation involving your verified: here. Annie (talk) 17:39, 31 July 2023 (EDT)

Looks good. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:08, 4 August 2023 (EDT)

Mothra

https://picclick.com/Sanrio-SF-Bunko-30A-Rosalind-ash-moth-174916262653.html; I'd been adding links and stuff to Rosalind Ashe novels when I came across that sale; beautiful cover that's not on any editions on ISFDB, so if you can find out more you may want to enter that edition. --Username (talk) 17:59, 3 August 2023 (EDT)

Done here, and another one here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:07, 4 August 2023 (EDT)

Goodnight, Mr. James

Your verified Robots Through the Ages, has Goodnight, Mr. James as a short story. There is a more widely appearing Good Night, Mr. James as a novelette. Would you mind double checking the length of your version and, as appropriate, either update the length & variant or add a note indicating this is a truncated version? If you need to compare the text, the original magazine version is here. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 12:29, 13 August 2023 (EDT)

I'll check. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:27, 17 August 2023 (EDT)

I did a full word count from the archived copy and got 7490. I did an estimated word count on the version in Robots Through the Ages and got 7412. I've updated the length to "short story" per that, and varianted the Robots Through the Ages title to the existing title. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:42, 23 August 2023 (EDT)

Genius Loci

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5740518; Page count, both Roman and regular, are off, and "editor's note" is really foreword. I didn't check page numbers or story titles or anything like that. Also, the reprint years later with a different cover is 350 pages shorter on here; that can't be right. --Username (talk) 13:08, 13 August 2023 (EDT)

I'll have to check my copy. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:25, 17 August 2023 (EDT)

Okay, these are all fixed. I updated the version I have, and split off the newer anthology of the same name as it only has 15 stories in it (despite the Amazon description). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:02, 23 August 2023 (EDT)

Shigeru Kayama

Hello Joe,

Would you mind getting this author sorted out? I found this. Thanks! Annie (talk) 19:57, 18 August 2023 (EDT)

All done here. I'm working on adding more of his works as there aren't very many included here yet. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:06, 21 August 2023 (EDT)

Thanks! :) Annie (talk) 18:10, 21 August 2023 (EDT)

Surraoundings

Hi, re your PV'd pub here. Would you mind sorting out the typo in the canonical for "City of Adopest (map)"? Titles affected are here. (Btw, I've submitted correction to one of the page counts) Thanks, Kev. --BanjoKev (talk) 21:40, 28 August 2023 (EDT)

It looks like that misspelling is from this publication, for which there are no PVs. Based on that, I assume it's a typo and have corrected it accordingly. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:45, 29 August 2023 (EDT)

Thanks for sorting that, and I've submitted a merge for the two "City of Adopest and Surroundings (map)" titles. Kev.--BanjoKev (talk) 19:02, 29 August 2023 (EDT)

Green Man

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5694041; All other books by the publisher are PB, that's why I changed it. A low-rent publisher like this wouldn't publish a TP, especially not in the 1940's. Also, one PV was transient and the other one had not left a message on their board since October of 2021 and just happened to start leaving messages again exactly 1 day before I made my edit. Here's a sale which calls it a paperback, digest size: https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Green-Man-Visitor-Space-Sherman-Harold/19181544857/bd. --Username (talk) 18:30, 29 August 2023 (EDT)

All you wrote was "fixed format". That is neither clear nor helpful as we can't read your mind. As you've been asked many, many times before, you need to include all of this information with your submission. I've approved it now. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:41, 29 August 2023 (EDT)

Why would I need to include anything? Click on the publisher and you can see for yourself. Is that so hard to do? Do I really need to tell you to do that? Do you think I just changed it because I felt like it? Has my edit really been sitting around for months because none of you mods can click a link? Did none of you notice that one of the PV was transient and wouldn't have the book anymore and the other one hadn't responded to anything in a couple of years and just happened to come back exactly at the same time I made my edit? Am I psychic and should have known that would happen and left them a message telling them I changed the format even though they should have known what the format really was because the other 2 books by the publisher that are PV were done before this guy's PV and they both entered it correctly as a PB paperback? I'm in the business (among many other things) of fixing the countless mistakes that were made here in the nearly 15 years that public editing was going on before I started; mistakes that apparently no one noticed or cared enough to fix because most of you abandoned print books long ago and just enter e-books now. So I'm doing my best to fix (and add) as much as I can until I decide to stop doing this; try being grateful instead of complaining about something as utterly trivial as this. --Username (talk) 22:05, 29 August 2023 (EDT)

If you had included a simple "All other books by the publisher are PB, so it's unlikely this one was TP", that would have worked. Work with us, and we'll work with you. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:45, 30 August 2023 (EDT)

Are you purposely trying to annoy me? I'll say this again, this publisher only has 5 books on ISFDB, all others are PB, PV of this one made a very common mistake and entered TP for PB, I've corrected countless numbers of those, many of which you approved, I'm sure, or sometimes PB is wrongly entered instead of TP. There's an enormous amount of fixes needed for the print books on this site, many of which were entered incompletely and then never followed up on by anyone, others that were entered with wrong info that a mod approved without double-checking the info to make sure it was right, and I've tried my best to correct what I can, although I'm sure even after more than 2 1/2 years of doing this nearly every day I still have only corrected less than 1% of the mistakes here. I'm not here to hold your hands and walk you through every step, especially since most of you have been here far longer than me, most of the other people here don't answer anything I ask on the message boards or when they do they answer with sarcasm or weird non-answers or the usual stuff about being sick/moving/unpacking/I don't care about this site anymore because I'm mad at someone else on the site, or they answer with anger at daring to suggest they made a mistake about something; I see hundreds of messages on Community Portal right now with no name except my own. I still can't believe some of the recent edits that have been sitting in my list that took forever for someone to finally approve for the most ridiculous of reasons, from adding Roman numerals to page counts (which many PV forget to enter or didn't know they were supposed to enter) or this one which was patently obvious or the Ramsey Campbell one adding a cover to a PB that sat there for months for some unknown reason. The ingratitude here is really something else; all the work I've done to correct the mistakes you and everyone else made before I got here, not to mention all the additions I've made, and all you can do is complain about something that would have been taken care of in a couple of seconds by clicking a link that's right there on the edit page. Or, now that I think of it, when the first mod who looked at this one long ago, probably RTrace, didn't feel like clicking the link he could have left a message saying "I'm not sure about this one" and then I would have responded with some version of what I wrote above about the publisher and the edit would have been approved shortly afterwards. You know what? I had already made up my mind before your rejections that tomorrow was going to be my last day for a while, I plan on not doing this in September and then coming back in October for the Halloween season to add as many horror-related edits as I can, and after that, who knows? This is all so pointless, anyway, because the site has largely shifted to e-books and awards and Amazon links that bring in cash for clicks; most of my nearly 60,000 edits have probably never been looked at by anyone after they were approved and probably never will be. --Username (talk) 17:09, 30 August 2023 (EDT)

Okay. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:19, 1 September 2023 (EDT)

...Sunset

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5702805; Because there's archived links to 2 editions and another is on Amazon (there's a $300 edition but nobody's going to have that). I don't believe I would have changed the title unless it was wrong in the books themselves. --Username (talk) 18:34, 29 August 2023 (EDT)

Where are the archived links? You didn't include them in your submission, and you didn't include them here? Please provide them so we can verify the information. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:47, 29 August 2023 (EDT)

The archived links are in the editions' records, both added by me earlier this year. They say "archive.org" on the page; that means there's an archived link to the book. Click on them and you'll see, like I did but not anyone else, apparently, that one of the titles was entered wrong here and so I fixed it. EDIT: [1]; There's the title page where the story first appeared which also says "On Sunset" regardless of what the careless publication history in Power's collection says which is probably where the incorrect "At Sunset" was taken from. --Username (talk) 22:07, 29 August 2023 (EDT)

Then contact the PV and ask them to check their copy of the book and update the entry. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:53, 30 August 2023 (EDT)

1634: The Bavarian Crisis

The Pages field for your verified publication 1634: The Bavarian Crisis currently shows '[x]+690+[3]'. I initially approved a submission removing the brackets from the Roman numeral (subsequently reversed). Per the help, we enter the Roman numeral for the highest numbered page. Hence, brackets can never be correct. However, I own a copy of the first edition, there are no Roman numerals in my copy. In my opinion, the correct entry for Pages is '690+[3]'. Do you agree? If not, why? John Scifibones 16:53, 9 September 2023 (EDT)

Same for The Dreeson Incident and 1635: The Eastern Front.

After looking at all the first printings up through 1636: The China Venture, I think the proper way to account for the maps is an unnumbered Arabic sequence. I'll be glad to verify them after we reach agreement. John Scifibones 17:16, 9 September 2023 (EDT)

For The Dreeson Incident and 1635: The Eastern Front, I removed the brackets as the notes don't indicate anything about the pages being unnumbered but referenced in the table of contents. I think 1634: The Bavarian Crisis should be left as is since it does have a note indicating the pages are unnumbered but referenced in the table of contents. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:37, 12 September 2023 (EDT)

I don't follow your line of reasoning.

• Publication pages field: Where does the help section support the use of Roman numerals for a publication which has no pages with Roman numerals?
• Content titles page field: If there are no Roman numerals in the pages field, how can the content titles have a Roman numeral? You mention pub notes referring to the publication's contents page. Wouldn't that contradict this statement from the help? "Caution: Do not use the table of contents to determine the page numbers of a publication's contents."

Here is my analysis of the above two fields for numbers 2-28 (hc except for the 3 only printed in tp) in the 163x series. Note, correct in this analysis is determined by using Bullet point 3 here.

• "Sometimes a publication will have unnumbered pages before page 1. If there is any material in these pages which needs to be entered as part of the contents of the book, you may record this by entering the count in squared brackets. For example, [6]+320 would be a publication with six unnumbered pages and then 320 numbered pages. There is no need to record these unnumbered pages if they contain no content that needs to be recorded. At times you will need to count backwards from the first numbered page to see which is page 1 and then would count the unnumbered pages that are before this. Likewise, you may record the count of unnumbered pages at the end of a publication. For example, 320+[4]. As before, only do this if there is additional content in these pages that requires the creation of a content record, as when there is an afterword or book excerpt which appears on unnumbered pages."

A couple of your verified publications do use the method I consider correct. Since you, User:Philfreund and I are the only active verifiers, I'll invite him to participate here. Thanks for your time, John Scifibones 16:39, 13 September 2023 (EDT)

I also don't understand your use of Roman numerals where the only place they exist is in the ToC. I agree with John's points above. His second point about the content titles explicitly forbidding the use of the ToC for page numbering surely points for the need to have consistency in the pages field contents, even if not currently explicitly stated. There also definitely needs to be a note in each publication record where this situation exists since it's such an anomaly. The Help for the pages field should be updated to cover this situation. Looking at John's analysis, I need to go back and fix some of the publications where I am sole active PV; I'm not sure how I missed them the first time through. Thanks. Phil (talk) 08:02, 14 September 2023 (EDT)

If page numbers are given in the TOC, even if the pages themselves aren't numbered, I consider them numbered. There are some books that just don't number things prior to page 1, but I've seen a few (like this one) that have the page numbers given in the TOC but not on the actual pages. Why wouldn't we use the page numbers given in the TOC for that? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:55, 15 September 2023 (EDT)

Perhaps a discussion needs to be opened on the Rules and standards discussions page so this can be sorted out. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:56, 15 September 2023 (EDT)

I was about to recommend that when I saw your second post. For now, do you agree with Phil and I correcting the publications which do not comply with present standards? There are 12 more, in the above analysis, that I would like to add my PV. John Scifibones 13:09, 15 September 2023 (EDT)

Let's leave 1634: The Bavarian Crisis alone for now, but any of the others I don't have are fine to correct. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:10, 15 September 2023 (EDT)

(unindent)
Followed here from this post
I have sympathies with both sides in this discussion.
A) The Nihonjoe camp (use the Roman numeral from the ToC):
The Help statement: "Caution: Do not use the table of contents to determine the page numbers of a publication's contents." is presumably intended to apply to the situation where a page number is stated in the ToC and a different page number is stated (or is derivable by counting forwards / backwards) on the page on which the contents begin. However, the scenario that has been raised with 1634: The Bavarian Crisis is different. Here, a page number is stated in the ToC but the page number on the page on which the contents begin IS NULL (and is not derivable by counting forwards / backwards). Consider a hypothetical situation in which the title of a piece of Shortfiction is stated in the ToC but the publisher completely omits the title on the page on which the contents begin. It would be daft to record this piece of Shortfiction as having a null title (even assuming the ISFDb software permitted it). In such a case we would use the title from a secondary source and using the title from the ToC seems sensible. This analogy supports using a Roman numeral page number stated in the ToC for the scenario under discussion.
B) The Scifibones / Philfreund camp (use Arabic numerals in square brackets):
However, from the other side of the fence, the ISFDb rules already have a method for assigning page numbers to unnumbered pages that are not derivable by counting forwards / backwards, namely, the use of Arabic numerals in square brackets. So we don't need to resort to a secondary source for the page number and my analogy above regarding the null title breaks down. The way Pages are denoted in the ISFDb is already horrendously complicated and if we adopt option A) we introduce further complications and also open other cans of worms. Example 1): Should the Roman numeral be enclosed in square brackets? This is currently not supported in the ISFDb rules but I can envisage someone making a case for it to be introduced if we adopt option A). Example 2) Suppose a map is on an unnumbered page that is derivable by counting backwards (page 4, say) but the ToC lists it on page iv? What do we do? More complications. More Help notes required.
My Conclusion:
Weighing up all the above, I vote for option B) (use Arabic numerals in square brackets). Whichever way it does go, i) the Help notes need updating to clarify what to do and ii) a pub note definitely needs to be added to explain the discrepancy and the Help notes should state this. Teallach (talk) 18:42, 16 September 2023 (EDT)

I think there's some confusion here. As noted at the top of the discussion, "1634: The Bavarian Crisis currently shows '[x]+690+[3]'". What Scifibones and Philfreund are suggesting is that we shouldn't be using the roman numerals at all because the pages themselves don't have any roman numerals. I'm suggesting that we should use the roman numerals as given in the TOC because they are given there (despite not being on the actual pages). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:36, 18 September 2023 (EDT)

I do not understand why you think there is some confusion. I agree with your statement above regarding what topic we are discussing. That is what I addressed in my previous post. In my opinion, we should not use Roman numerals when there are no pages with printed Roman numerals. The fact that the ToC may quote Roman numerals is irrelevant. I explained the reasons for my view in my previous post. I have found and looked at the hardcover of 1634: The Bavarian Crisis on archive.org. Pages should be [10]+690+[3] and in the Contents section the Start Page of the maps should be [8]. Teallach (talk) 18:35, 19 September 2023 (EDT)

Well, I disagree with that. If we have something in the publication telling us what page number something is, we should use it, especially in cases where there's no other source. Perhaps this needs to be taken to the Rules and standards discussions? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:54, 27 September 2023 (EDT)

We could even incorporate the discussion that's already there. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:00, 27 September 2023 (EDT)

I agree it should be moved there but have no idea how that's done so we don't lose what's already been discussed. Phil (talk) 21:59, 27 September 2023 (EDT)

There is no need to move this to the Rules and standards discussion page. The circumstance where the actual pages are unnumbered but numbering (whether Roman or Arabic) is given in the ToC is clearly covered.

As John pointed out in his post above (* Content titles page field:), "Caution: Do not use the table of contents to determine the page numbers of a publication's contents.".

If there is a discrepancy between the actual numbering, or lack of, on the page and that given in the ToC, then that should be recorded in the notes.

Why or how is this not clear? Kev. --BanjoKev (talk) 17:46, 28 September 2023 (EDT)

If the table of contents is the only source of the page numbers, I think it's fine to use what it says. That cautionary note is because there have been many instances where a ToC hasn't been updated with correct page numbers for content within a book (such as stories or essays), so going with the actual page numbers for those is what should be done. I don't think it was meant to be applied in cases such as this where the pages themselves don't have page numbers on them, but the ToC clearly shows there are page numbers for them. That's why I'm arguing for using those page numbers in this case, and I included a note to that effect in the publication in question. Your interpretation is why I think this needs to be discussed at R&S. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:51, 17 October 2023 (EDT)

(unindent)
You have had over a month to show something in the help section supporting the use of Roman numerals when there are no Roman numerals in a publication.

• Excerpt from moderator qualifications. "Good intentions. A moderator must be someone who is willing to work to improve the ISFDB, and comply with the consensus gained on the ISFDB Wiki on the resolution of various bibliographic debates.".

Since everyone disagrees with you, it's time for you to relent. I'd like to correct and verify the publications identified in the above analysis. John Scifibones 18:10, 17 October 2023 (EDT)

• • This needs to be brought up on R&S as this is obviously unclear in the help or policies. For this kind of thing, any discussion making such a decision which isn't clearly spelled out in policy needs to have a discussion there. And please don't try to browbeat me by pretending I'm somehow being a bad moderator by disagreeing with you. The clarification discussion needs to be held in order to determine what we should generally do in situations like this. Some of the most prolific people here haven't even commented here. I've created a discussion here, so let's have any further discussion there and keep it to the topic. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:04, 17 October 2023 (EDT)

I'm not trying to browbeat or disrespect you. In fact, I've waited over a month for others to participate and you to provide support for your position. I included the above statement as a reminder that one person can't delay resolution because they don't like the consensus. John Scifibones 20:13, 17 October 2023 (EDT)

And I'm saying that we can't clarify policy based on a discussion on my user talk page. The correct place to do that is on the R&S page, which is why I created the discussion there. I'll be fine with whatever the outcome is there. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:04, 18 October 2023 (EDT)

Terri Karsten / Terri Karston

Hi, Joe! It may be that the two authors are one and the same person. Since you are the sole verifier for a publication featuring the latter: could you take a look if there's a hint for the relation? Thanks, Christian Stonecreek (talk) 04:50, 13 September 2023 (EDT)

Fixed. Just a typo. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:53, 26 September 2023 (EDT)

Donald Trump Anthology

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?715417; You entered the title incorrectly; there's no comma after Walls. --Username (talk) 23:59, 19 September 2023 (EDT)

Fixed. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:06, 25 September 2023 (EDT)

Maurice Sendak: A Celebration of the Artist and His Work

Does Maurice Sendak: A Celebration of the Artist and His Work really have two covers? There is nothing in the notes and the second title makes its sound like interior art? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:20, 15 October 2023 (EDT)

IIRC, it's the back cover, which is a completely different work than the front cover. I can check it when I get home, if you want. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:15, 17 October 2023 (EDT)

Also, I remember the titles of the pieces being given within the book. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:46, 17 October 2023 (EDT)

Updated. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:58, 18 October 2023 (EDT)

Back cover artwork is entered as interior art with a page number of "bc" (see Template:TitleFields:Title, "Artwork" section). -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:20, 21 October 2023 (EDT)

I'd forgotten about that. Updated. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:17, 23 October 2023 (EDT)

Brotherhood of Mt. Shasta

https://archive.org/details/isbn_9784199060410; Japanese translation of this novel, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1389888, in case you want to enter it. --Username (talk) 13:02, 15 October 2023 (EDT)

Done! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:44, 17 October 2023 (EDT)

Kay/Kat Heckenbach

Hi, Joe! The cover of 'Etherea Magazine #10' for this story gives Kat Heckenbach (not Kay). Could you take a second look? Christian Stonecreek (talk) 15:00, 29 October 2023 (EDT)

Just a typo. All fixed. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:34, 2 November 2023 (EDT)

Marisa W.

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2744061; Should this be by Marisa Wolf? --Username (talk) 08:44, 14 November 2023 (EST)

Yes, fixed. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:00, 15 November 2023 (EST)

Two authors: same person?

Hi! If one searches for Alfred Gen two authors are turned out: Alfred Genesson & Alfred Genneson, which I tend to think are one and the same person. Can you take a look into the corresponding publications "MAGA 2020 & Beyond" (2017) and the anthology "Earth" (2018) to find out if they are indeed the same (and if so, what should be the canonical name)? Thanks in advance, Christian Stonecreek (talk) 08:21, 23 November 2023 (EST)

I'll check my copies. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:10, 28 November 2023 (EST)

Updated. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:35, 29 November 2023 (EST)

Paycheck

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5818670; Publisher should be Citadel + Kensington like the other edition; also, cover art has a 01 added which differs from this edition's date. --Username (talk) 10:58, 24 November 2023 (EST)

I'll check my copy. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:08, 28 November 2023 (EST)

I've updated it per what appears on the title page. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:32, 29 November 2023 (EST)

OK, except the other 18 ISFDB books from them have Corp. at the end of the publisher's name, as does Paycheck, so yours is by itself instead of merged with the others. --Username (talk) 20:53, 29 November 2023 (EST)

I fixed that, too. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:20, 30 November 2023 (EST)

さよならも言えないうちに

Hello Joe,

When you have a chance, can you add a transliteration and the original editions here (and fix anything else needed in the date (most likely) or the title). Thanks! Annie (talk) 11:22, 11 December 2023 (EST)

✓ Done! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:44, 12 December 2023 (EST)

Niven/Pournelle/Flynn's Fallen Angels and Dream Park Universe

Hi, in a review, James Davis Nicoll is dubious that Fallen Angels is part of Dream Park Universe. The series membership seems to be down to a July 2015 edit of yours. (FWIW User_talk:Nihonjoe/Archive_2 covers that period, but I don't see any relevant talk items.

As I've not read any of the works in question, I don't have a dog in this "fight", but just raising it in case you can recall any explanatory details that might be worth putting in a title or series note? Thanks. ErsatzCulture (talk) 11:51, 11 January 2024 (EST)

I'll see if I can find the source. I'm sure I wouldn't have added it if I didn't have a reason. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 21:19, 12 January 2024 (EST)

Well, after a bit of looking around, I can't find anything that indicates it's in the Dream Park universe, so I've removed it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:12, 16 January 2024 (EST)

Thanks! ErsatzCulture (talk) 17:09, 16 January 2024 (EST)

Bloodwars

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5737123; PV finally responded and agreed that it's Roc. --Username (talk) 17:44, 12 January 2024 (EST)

Approved. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 21:20, 12 January 2024 (EST)

Sacred Seven

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?28719; While adding Archive.org link I noticed artist is just Donato on copyright page, one of his alternate names, so it should probably be entered as such and made a variant of his parent name. --Username (talk) 21:24, 14 January 2024 (EST)

I'll check my copy. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:39, 15 January 2024 (EST)

Updated, and your submission has been approved, too. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:48, 15 January 2024 (EST)

Father Christmas Goes to Work

Hi Nihonjoe -

Could I get you to double check the title of the last story in Dragons at Crumbling Castle and Other Tales. We have it as "Father Christmas Goes to Work". However, the audio book has it as "Father Christmas Goes to Work at the Zoo". I had a look at the Amazon look inside features and the UK edition has the longer title in the TOC, whereas for your edition the TOC has the shorter title. If the title page of your copy matches the TOC with the shorter title, then I think we're going to have to make a variant. If not, we can simply merge with this title. There is one other verifier of the UK edition who last edited on December 11. I'll leave a note on their talk page as well, but I don't know that we'll receive a response. Thanks for checking. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 06:48, 26 January 2024 (EST)

I'll take a look. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:27, 27 January 2024 (EST)

The title page for the story has the shorter title, so I made the shorter title a variant of the longer title. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:52, 29 January 2024 (EST)

Thanks so much for checking. I got a response from the verifier of the UK edition and it appears that only the US editions with the exception of the audio book use the shorter title. I'll take care of swapping out the publications that need it. Thanks again. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 18:36, 29 January 2024 (EST)

Sounds good. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:54, 30 January 2024 (EST)

Iskateli: Fanzine de la SF Internationale: some (or all) things are seriously wrong

Hello, Joe! Since you approved of the submission for that magazine / nonfiction, could you please help in getting this record corrected? Please add comments or advice within this discussion item. Christian Stonecreek (talk) 14:28, 26 January 2024 (EST)

Sure. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:31, 27 January 2024 (EST)

Harlequin Butterfly

Hello Joe,

When you have a chance, can you see if you can find the original title of this novella? Thanks!

PS: It looks like we have a few more stories without parents for this author. Not sure how easy it will be to chase them down but if you have the time and desire to, the author page can use some help :). Thanks! Annie (talk) 17:05, 29 January 2024 (EST)

https://archive.org/search?query=%E6%80%AA%E7%8D%A3%E3%82%B4%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A9&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22; While looking up the author I saw his Godzilla novel, clicked the series link, saw a 1954 book, cut-and-pasted the title on Archive.org, and got the above-linked book. I don't know if that's a novelization of Gojira or what but if so or something similar maybe you might find it worthy of entering here (if it's not already). --Username (talk) 17:18, 29 January 2024 (EST)

It looks like that archive.org link is for a Chinese version of something related to Godzilla. I don't read Chinese (except for a very few characters), so I don't know what that is. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:09, 29 January 2024 (EST)

The butterfly title is here. I've merged/varianted everything. I'll see what I can do about his other works. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:07, 29 January 2024 (EST)

Ah, that was quick. Thanks! :) Annie (talk) 18:09, 29 January 2024 (EST)

The Mummy

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?976311; Dot after Kevin J. Kennedy's first name prevents story from being in the same record as his others. I didn't check any other contents but you might want to see if there's anything else that needs fixing. --Username (talk) 22:18, 3 February 2024 (EST)

Fixed. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:19, 4 February 2024 (EST)

Shadowdance

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?930940; https://vaultofevil.proboards.com/thread/670/vampy-crew?page=3; Artist's first name is spelled differently at the Vault of Evil link and she is probably the same as this artist, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?56801, price is different on cover, other piece of fiction supposedly by Ed Hyuck but probably this guy, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?224679, lots of poetry, etc. So the author who gave the info may need contacting to verify or add things if you can get a hold of him. --Username (talk) 10:34, 4 February 2024 (EST)

I have no idea how to reach Kervin. And I agree that it's possibly the same artist for those two, but I don't have any way to find out. I've corrected the other things, though. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:26, 4 February 2024 (EST)

Tress of the Emerald Sea

Hi Joe,

Can you look at the two interior art records by Howard Lyon here? They (or at least one of them) need disambiguation of some type -- [2] for example. :) Thanks! Annie (talk) 11:40, 6 February 2024 (EST)

Fixed. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:58, 6 February 2024 (EST)

Thanks! I suspect you have no way to check if one of these matches the single record from the rest of the editions :) Annie (talk) 15:16, 6 February 2024 (EST)

Are you talking about this one? If so, the Tor editions do not contain all of the illustrations found in the Kickstarter edition. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:18, 6 February 2024 (EST)

That's the one. We need some notes around that in all these records I think. And I think I will disconnect the Bulgarian edition out from all of them until I get better idea of what they did use actually. Thanks! Annie (talk) 20:53, 6 February 2024 (EST)

I added a note here so that should be enough to keep things separate. Thanks for checking and for the explanation about the difference. Annie (talk) 21:17, 6 February 2024 (EST)

No problem. I have the Kickstarter editions as well as the Tor hardcover, so if you have any questions bout them, let me know. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:33, 7 February 2024 (EST)

Help:Contents

Joe, please reverse the change in background color here Blue print on a blue background is harder for me to read. Thanks, John Scifibones 08:15, 14 February 2024 (EST)

Maybe a complimentary color? John Scifibones 09:38, 14 February 2024 (EST)

How about now? It's a much lighter blue. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 10:31, 14 February 2024 (EST)

Works for me. Thank you, John Scifibones 11:18, 14 February 2024 (EST)

You're welcome! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:21, 14 February 2024 (EST)

Low Port

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?179605; PENDING archived link, noticed other edition has count as 354+[14] because of unnumbered pages at the end, should this edition be the same? --Username (talk) 09:28, 22 February 2024 (EST)

Inverted Kingdom

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5901230; After approval you might want to check if anything else needs fixing/adding. --Username (talk) 00:26, 27 February 2024 (EST)

Briar Rose

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?5454

hiya i'm asking the active pvs for this one if they mind if I change the pages field to take into account the extra stuff listed in the contents. cheers from Gaz Faustus (talk) 09:53, 29 February 2024 (EST)

Sounds good to me. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:53, 29 February 2024 (EST)