User talk:AndonSage

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Hello, AndonSage, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Mhhutchins 23:31, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

The Course of Empire

I accepted the submission updating this pub, but I had to correct the link to the image. You should enter the entire URL of the image itself: here, but not the URL of the image's Wiki page: here. You can get the URL of the image by clicking on it from its Wiki page and copying the address from your browser's address window. (Some browser's allow you to copy the URL by right clicking on the image and choose "Copy URL".) Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 23:41, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


The ISFDB supports two basic types of series: title series and publication series (the title series can also be used for magazine/editor series as well, but that will come later if you intend on entering magazine records.) Title series are entered at the title level and publication series are entered in publication records. Frank Herbert's novel Dune is part of the Dune title series. The Easton Press edition of Dune is part of the publication series called The Masterpieces of Science Fiction. All publications of the novel Dune will always be a part of the "Dune" series, but not all will be part of the "Masterpieces of Science Fiction" series. In simpler terms, publishers create publication series, authors create title series. Only publication series can be entered in publication records. Title series are added to title records. For more about series, see this page.
I rejected the submission placing the pub record of The Course of Empire into a publication series titled "The Jao Empire" because that may be the name of the title series, but not the publication series. Currently the title record for that book (here) is part of a series called The Course of Empire along with the second book of the series. If you feel the name of the series should be "The Jao Empire" you can edit the record for the series to that name. I've researched the name of the series and agree it should be changed. If you'll submit such a change, I'll accept the submission. Thanks. Mhhutchins 01:49, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for the error, and thanks for the explanation. I've edited the title series name and submitted it. Good thing I held off trying to change any more books until I better understand how the ISFDB works :) AndonSage 03:23, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Submission question and comment

Hi. I accepted most of your submissions, but I have a question about two of them and a general comment. For In Enemy Hands and Echoes of Honor, you've made page counts be n+m. What is the first number? If it's just a count of unnumbered pages at the beginning, that should be put in square brackets (e.g., "[8]+419"). If the pages at the beginning are numbered with Roman numerals, we actually use those as the leading page count (e.g., "viii+419").

And a note about updating verified publications (someone listed as Primary verifier). Our practice here is to notify the verifier of changes to verified publications. Generally, it's ok to submit additions and notify after the fact. If you're going to change something, you should ask about it before submitting. Each verifier may have different notification preferences -- those who want something different than what I just described will have a big note at the top of their talk page. Replacing a linked cover image with an identical uploaded scan is like an addition, while replacing a linked cover image with a scan that's different is like a change. I did the notifications for the covers you submitted (one I'm asking the verifier about, since the covers are different), but please keep this in mind in future submissions. Thanks. --MartyD 13:44, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info about the pages. For In Enemy Hands, the pages (which include title page, list of other books page, dedication page, starmap page) don't have any numbers, so they need the brackets. For Echoes of Honor, the pages (which include the same as other book, but more illustration pages) are also not numbered, so also need the brackets.
Ok, I will insert the brackets. By the way, you don't have to count these pages (although you're welcome to do so). It's a good idea to count them if you are going to include content from them (e.g., introductions, artwork, etc.), but otherwise it's definitely ok to use the numbered pages. You can do whatever you like, I just figured I'd mention it. See Help:Screen:EditPub#Pages for the details, noting the use of "may". --MartyD 12:03, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
I didn't think about including notes for the maps and illustrations, so thanks for giving me that idea :) AndonSage 18:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
I didn't realize the cover images counted as part of the verification, sorry. Also, I never replace a cover with an identical image, there is always something different about the cover, even if they look very similar (for example, a small change to the font or font size). If you would tell me which cover you think is the same, I can tell you the difference between the image I uploaded and the prior image.
All of my edits and image uploads are from the actual books, so if there are any questions I can pull a book from my shelf. Thanks :) AndonSage 22:36, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
That is good, and please don't think I was questioning the accuracy or source of you information. The main reason for asking about these things is that sometimes the differences are real and indicate different editions of the book: publishers aren't always so good about recording on the copyright page which printing it is. So it could indicate that we should be recording another publication instead of changing an existing one. --MartyD 12:03, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
No problem :) I just wanted you to know that I have the actual books for my information, in case of discrepancies. Changing information here is a lot more complicated than the changes I make for the Everquest II wiki, LOL! AndonSage 18:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
  • UPDATE: I just came across another verified entry where the cover is not correct. I've uploaded the correct cover (, but I didn't edit the publication (Interstellar Patrol: What exactly should I do?
This one's a little bit of a judgment call. I would update the publication and leave an after-the-fact note for the verifier. In this case, I say it for a few reasons: (1) The verifier hasn't been around for a couple of months, so asking a question isn't likely to get an immediate answer. (2) The verifier has provided many good details -- if your book's details match his details, it's very likely you have the same book. (3) The Amazon LZZZZZZZZZ links are not fixed to one image, but sort of float along, so the cover we see today may not be the cover the verifier saw. (4) The Amazon cover looks like a higher-end edition cover (e.g., for a hardcover, or in this case for the $15.00 2003 trade paperback) -- no blurbs/quotes, etc., while the one you have looks more like one for a mass market paperback. You can ask first, and then do the edit if you get no response (you just have to remember to go back and do it). That would be the normal protocol. --MartyD 12:03, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Ok, done. Thanks :) AndonSage 18:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Title variations within a publication

Hi. I accepted your Mistborn submission, but I changed the title based on your note to include the subtitle. We use the title from the title page, not the title from the cover, spine, or even the copyright page. In subtitle situations, we might choose to have the Title record exist without the subtitle (or, occasionally, without a prefix), but for the titles of the publications themselves, we go by what's on the title page. --MartyD 16:55, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. AndonSage 19:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Wind Rider's Oath

I accepted the submission updating this pub but have a few concerns. You gave the "List of Characters" and "Maps" page numbers as negative numbers, which should not be used. If the pages are not numbered, you should start from the first page after the book's cover (excluding the endpaper) and count forward, giving the page number in brackets. For example, if the novel starts on page 1 and the map is on the sixth page (counting the front and back of each sheet as a separate page), then the map's page should be entered as "[6]". If the novel starts on page 9 and the map is on an unnumbered page three pages earlier it would be entered as "6", even though the page is not numbered itself. If there are roman-numeraled pages those should be taken into account as well.
If you enter data which appears on unnumbered pages before page 1, then those pages should be accounted for in the record's page count field. For example, if the map appears on unnumbered page "[6]" and there are three more pages before the first numbered page "1" and the last numbered page is "565", then the page count for the book should be entered as "[9]+565". If the map appears on the unnumbered page "6" and the novel starts on "9", then the page count is "565".
Also when data with generic titles are added to a record, they should be disambiguated so that they can be more easily found through a search or located on the author/artist summary page. This is usually done by adding the book's title to the record's name. Maps should be entered, in this case, as "Wind Rider's Oath (maps)". Because the List of Characters is actually titled "List of Characters", the novel's name should be added following the title: "List of Characters (Wind Rider's Oath)". If the map were titled, for example, "The Land of Never" the title could be given as either "The Land of Never (Wind Rider's Oath) (map)" or just "The Land of Never (map)". This also applies to introductions and afterwords that are titled "Introduction" or "Afterword", each becoming either "Introduction (Wind Rider's Oath)" or "Afterword (Wind Rider's Oath)".
Sorry to bombard you with so much information, but you should be able to catch on quickly if you continue to add or update pub records. Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 06:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I thought I'd be hearing from you about this book :) I figured the negative numbers were probably not correct, but didn't know how else to enter that info, and I also figured you'd know what I was trying to do, and would leave me a message. I got that part correct, anyway :)
Anyway, thanks for the info! I edited the page and think I got everything the way it should be now. The list of characters page title is actually just "Characters" so I changed that. I added (Wind Rider's Oath) to The Gods of Norfressa line, although I wasn't 100% sure about that. Please let me know if the data is ok now. Thanks again :) AndonSage 07:04, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Warrior: Riposte

I have a submission which wants to remove the Canadian pricing from this pub. Are you certain you have the same printing as this record, and equally certain that there is no Canadian price on the book? Thanks. Mhhutchins 06:37, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Something is very strange, which I didn't notice until your question :( There is a discrepancy in the ISBNs. My copy is ISBN 0-451-45718-8. It has the exact same cover as shown on the pub record, including the 10th anniversary edition. It has the exact same copyright information. The copyright page has First Roc Printing, June, 1998. The number line is 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1, which indicates the first printing. I've been doing some checking while typing this, and it appears that Roc might have reprinted the book without changing the copyright page! At least, the copy I have with the ISBN 0-451-45718-8 is showing up on Amazon as a June 1, 2003 availability date. Please disregard the changes to Warrior: Riposte and also Warrior: En Garde. I need to look into this further. I'm very sorry for the confusion. AndonSage 07:08, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
It appears that the copies of Warrior: En Garde and Warrior: Riposte that I have are Fanpro reprints, based on this Battletech novel list. The confusion I had is because they didn't change the copyright page, and I was only looking at the publication date, originally. If you'll please disregard my prior submissions for those two novels, I will enter the books as new data. Again, I'm very sorry. AndonSage 07:17, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
BTW, Warrior: En Garde still needs it notes fixed. It should be "Series" Editor, not "Senior" Editor. The FASA Corp copyright is 1988, not 1998, and you can see just by looking at the cover image that "The Warrior Trilogy: Volume One" is all above the title. Also, Mechanichal should be Mechanical. Please let me know when you read my responses here so I can submit the correct data. Thanks. AndonSage 07:57, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
I've rejected the submissions. Keep in mind, you have the ability to cancel submissions as well. In the future, go to the ISFDB home page and click "My Pending Edits". Then click on "Cancel submission". I'll fix the typos in Warrior: En Garde. Also, series information is not always placed in the pub's title field. That depends upon the editor's preference. And it should be based on the book's interior title page, not its cover. Thanks. Mhhutchins
Ah, I didn't know about canceling my own submissions. Thanks for the info! In regards to the series information, I'm referring to the note that says: "The Warrior Trilogy" above title, and "Volume One" below title on title page. It's obvious from looking at the cover image that that statement is incorrect. AndonSage 09:12, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Read the note again: "...on title page." It doesn't mention the cover. Cover titles and title page titles often differ. That's why the ISFDB policy is to record the title from the title page. Mhhutchins 19:21, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Gah :( Apparently I shouldn't be trying to edit books in the wee hours of the morning, as my reading comprehension drops too much when I'm tired. AndonSage 21:03, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Bracketed page numbers

Placing brackets around a number in the page count field indicates that the pages are not actually numbered. In this pub are there 14 unnumbered pages before Page 1, or are there 14 Roman-numeraled pages? If the latter, the brackets should be removed. The contents that start are Roman-numeraled should be bracketed if they aren't actually numbered. Thanks. Mhhutchins 05:01, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

The pages are not numbered. The roman numerals come from the Table of Contents, which lists the Maps starting on page ix, and the Family Trees on page xii. AndonSage 05:15, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Then you should also bracket the page numbers of the contents. Thanks. Mhhutchins 05:27, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Done. Thanks :) AndonSage 05:39, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Shadow of the Well of Souls

You linked this pub to the Wiki page for the cover image, not the image file itself. Mhhutchins 05:04, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Whoops! Thanks for catching that. I have edited the entry, just needs confirmed. AndonSage 05:17, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

The Coming of the Horseclans

Hi. For your submission of the 2nd printing of the expanded edition of The Coming of the Horseclans, is there a date for that 2nd printing? The clone is carrying the 1982-07-00 of the first printing, and your detailed notes make no mention of the statement of date for the 2nd, so I thought I would double-check. Thanks, --MartyD 03:43, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I realized I hadn't zeroed out the date after I had already submitted the entry. So I was going to do that when I edited it for the cover URL. If you want to do it now, that's fine. I still need to upload the cover after you approve it. Thanks :) AndonSage 04:06, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, I approved it and zeroed out the date. --MartyD 11:09, 5 February 2011 (UTC)


I've noticed you're using the designation "LCCCN" in your pub notes, assuming you mean the "Library of Congress Catalog Card Number". Sometime since its inception (I'm not sure exactly when), it became simply "LCCN" meaning "Library of Congress Control Number". I suppose it happened when libraries stopped using cards. When the LoC digitized all of their records, each of the old LCCCNs were given an online control number which were an adaptation of the LCCCN. For example the LCCCN "64-10349" (as stated in the 1964 St. Martin's edition of Davy by Edgar Pangborn) became "64010349", the new control number, which has then given a unique URL: and can be found here. Except for rare entry errors and omissions, almost all books that I've found that has the old LCCCN also has a record online. The same is true of all books that print the Library of Congress Cataloging in Publication data (aka the CIP) which will 99% of the time include the LCCN. In order to standardize as close as possible any abbreviations used in notes, we determined that LCCN should be used in all publications, even those that give the old name.

If you're up to it, we also suggest, but not require, linking the pub to the LoC's online record. Since 2001, it's been pretty easy because the hyphen has been eliminated and all LCCNs have the form XXXX000000. The first four numbers are the year in which the record was created (quite often not the year of publication, because publishers get these numbers months before the book is actually published.) The last six digits are assigned by the LoC, supposedly in the order in which the numbers are requested by publishers. Before 2001, there was a hyphen used between the year and the number. And before 2000, only the last two numbers of the year were used in the number. The conversion of the pre-2001 numbers to a valid LCCN is pretty simple. Remove the hyphen and add any leading zeros to make the number six digits long. So "84-289" becomes "84000289". The URL address is also stable: (post-2000) or (pre-2000).

Linking requires a little knowledge of HTML, but otherwise it's rather simple. Again, there's no requirement to enter the LCCN, much less to link to it. But, because you've been providing the LCCNs in your notes, I thought you might find the information enlightening. Even if you don't link, you can use the online record as a source for further information. Thanks. Mhhutchins 02:32, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the only reason those numbers were in my notes is because I was editing records that had them, and just left them in there. Since they were already in the notes, I figured the information had already been approved, so I didn't remove them. If I come across more in the future, though, I can link them. AndonSage 02:41, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Starman Jones cover credit

Hi. You should credit the cover in Starman Jones to Rick Sternback, if that's the way it is credited in the book. It looks like we have run into other cases where that same spelling is used and have already set up a pseudonym. --MartyD 12:27, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok, done. Thanks :) AndonSage 12:36, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Importing Contents vs. Updating Pub Records

I accepted the submission updating this record, adding content records for the three novels. Now you'll have to merge these newly created title records with the existing ones. In the future, please consider importing the contents. In one submission all the contents from a pre-existing record can be copied into the record of another, avoiding the need to merge individual records. If you have any question about how to do this, just ask here. Thanks. Mhhutchins 20:24, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I knew I would have to merge the three novel names, because the original record that I edited didn't have the names so I had to add them. I've never used "import content" so if you would explain, I would be grateful. AndonSage 20:33, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
If you look at the record for the first publication of this title, you'll see that it contains the same contents as the book you were updating. Look at the Bibliographic Comments line and you'll see the record number (or tag) in parentheses: THDVTLRTF21977. Copy this number, then go the pub record into which you want to import these contents. Under the "Editing Tools" menu, you'll see a link title "Import Content". Clicking on that leads you to the Import page where you're asked to enter the record number (or tag) of the publication record from which you'll be importing the contents. Paste the number (usually a combination of letters and numbers) into the first field. If you wish to retain the same page numbers as the original publication leave the check box as is, otherwise, if your pub has a different set of page numbers, remove the check. Then click "Import Contents" which leads you to a page that updates the pub, adding the content records. You'll see that the only thing that can be edited on this page are the page number fields. You can also add additional content, if your pub contains titles that were not in the original publication. This function saves you from merging content records, which isn't so bad when there's only three records to merge. But think of a record that contains dozens of titles, and you'll see how much time it saves! Mhhutchins 20:56, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Got it, thanks :) I've saved your directions. AndonSage 21:26, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Witch's Daughter

The note: "Stated LCCN 99-90416 is not found." which you added to this pub can be confusing to some users. If this number is stated in the pub but there is no file on the LoC website, you shouldn't link it. Perhaps "A record for the stated LCCN 99-90416 is not found on the Library of Congress website, as of 2011-02-15." makes it more clear. It also hedges against it being added in the future. Thanks. Mhhutchins 00:05, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if the record wasn't found because there's a problem with the LoC database right now, or because the record actually doesn't exist. When I tested the link I got a page that said it wasn't found, but that page only gives suggestions on making sure your link is correct. Anyway, I changed the Note to use your recommended text. Thanks. AndonSage 00:16, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Change accepted, but I still doubt the efficacy of a link to a record that doesn't exist. I searched the LoC online catalog and found no record of this pub. Mhhutchins 00:39, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Whoops, didn't mean to include the link. I just copied the whole thing when copy/pasting. I've removed it. AndonSage 00:44, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

"Foreword" in There Will Be Time

If this "Foreword" is part of the novel, there should not be a separate record created for it. Just as you'd not create a record for individual chapters or an "Epilogue". You can mention in the notes that this is a fictional foreword.

The "Foreword" was already in the record when I edited it. I tried to remove it by blanking out all it's fields, but that didn't work. I don't know how to remove it. If you will let me know how to do that, I would be happy to remove it. Thanks :) AndonSage 00:57, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Nevermind :) I figured out how to remove the "Foreward" line. I think I did it correctly, anyway. I'll find out if it's approved :) AndonSage 01:05, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Siege of Tarr-Hostigos

As you wanted to add a co-author to Siege of Tarr-Hostigos I put this on hold and am waiting to see what gets posted to User talk:Dcarson#Siege of Tarr-Hostigos. --Marc Kupper|talk 06:11, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Gottlief or Gottlieb?

Would you please check if the Penicillin essay is by Gottlief, as we have it, or Gottlieb, as has it, in your 2-verified The Grantville Gazette? I also asked User:Dcarson, who has the first primary verification. Thanks. --MartyD 03:03, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I have that book currently packed away in a box in storage (I recently moved and am still buying shelves to put up to get all my books out of boxes). It'll take a day or two to get to it, so I don't have an answer right now. However, I know the following:
I am guessing that either a) we have multiple typos, or b) the author is listed incorrectly in the original paperback, and the spelling of his name has since been fixed.

UPDATE: I have the book in front of me, and here's the situation:
  • The Contents page shows Robert Gottlief as the author
  • The page in the book where the story begins shows Bob Gottlieb as the author
Since says the author is Gottlieb, then I will assume that Gottlief on the Contents page is a misprint.
Do you want to take care of this situation, or is there something you want me to do? AndonSage 00:36, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
I will fix up the entry and add a note. Thank you for doing the research! --MartyD 10:13, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
You're welcome :) I did some searching at the Baen Bar ( today and all references to the author come up Bob Gottlieb. BTW, I changed your reference from Robert Gottlieb to Bob Gottlieb, because the article in the book has Bob, not Robert. AndonSage 20:20, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Oh, if it's actually "Bob", we should change those, make that a pseudonym, and make a variant. You see Bob in both the paper and ebook? --MartyD 12:15, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
At the start of the article, underneath the title, in both the paperback (page 319) and the e-book, the author is listed as Bob Gottlieb. He is referred to as Robert only on the Contents page at the beginning of the book. In the Editor's Preface at the start of the book, at the bottom of page 3, Eric Flint refers to him as Bob Gottlieb. AndonSage 20:54, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Ripple Creek series

I accepted the submission changing the series for Better to Beg Forgiveness... to [Ripple Creek] before I noticed that there already is a series by that name by Keri Arthur. Do you know if there's any connection between the two? Mhhutchins 04:17, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Just checked. Williamson's is science fiction, and Arthur's is about werewolves. We'll have to change the name of one of them. When I google "Ripple Creek" Arthur's book come up, so I think we should come up with another name for the Williamson series. Any suggestions? Mhhutchins 04:21, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Sorry about that, I didn't think to check for another series with that name, as it didn't seem probable. Anyway, my suggestion is either Ripple Creek (Freehold Universe), or if that's redundant as a subseries of the Freehold Universe, then Ripple Creek Mercenaries, since that's what the Ripple Creek people are. However, Ripple Creek (Freehold Universe) matches the author's wikipedia page Will you take care of fixing things here, or will I need to submit something? AndonSage 05:07, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
I'll try doing it. Please check the results. Mhhutchins 16:10, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Looks good to me! Thanks! :) AndonSage 20:09, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Author web pages

I rejected the submission to change the website listed on John F. Carr's page from [this] to [this]. The first link goes directly to the author's bio. The second links only to the publisher's home page. Such links should be added to the ISFDB page for the publisher, as [here]. I'm open to any arguments that the link should be changed. Thanks. Mhhutchins 20:40, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Ah, ok. I wondered about that, because I didn't remember including the /authors on the end in the first submission. But it's fine by me, now that I understand. John wanted his Pequod Press site added to his bio page, so that's close enough. Thanks :) AndonSage 20:49, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Changing a pub's credits based on another publication

It's not a good idea to change the credits in a pub (especially a verified one) based on the credits of another one. It's possible, and very likely because Dragoondelight was pretty meticulous in his submissions, that the author of "The Lost and the Founder" in this pub wasn't credited. In this case, if we're absolutely sure it's the same work, we can make this appearance into a variant of the record credited to E. R. Stewart. This record isn't currently in the database so we'll have to create a parent record based on any confirmed data you may have that Stewart is the author of the work. Thanks. Mhhutchins 00:36, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

According to Locus1, both the prologue ("The Lost and the Founder") and the epilogue ("Farewell to Heaven") were anonymously written by the editor, Jerry Pournelle. This may or may not be true, but we'd need more substantial proof that they were before assigning any credit. Mhhutchins 00:42, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
The story is the same. The War World: Discovery anthology has five prior War World stories and nine new ones. I thought I was just attributing the story to the author when I made the change, I didn't realize it was a problem changing the record. Should I have just changed the author in the title record? I wanted to be able to import the story into War World: Discovery instead of typing it in and having to do a merge. I will verify with John F. Carr who the author actually is, in case there is an error in the War World: Discovery book. AndonSage 00:47, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Changing a title record's author credit changes its credit in all publications. Because there is no record credited as such in the db, you have to create a new one as a content of the book you're entering. Then we make the uncredited record (the one now in the db) into a variant of the one you'd have created in the new pub. (Not as a merge. Merged records must be identical or reconciled to be identical.) BTW, is "Farewell to Heaven" included in the new book, and if so, to whom is it credited? Mhhutchins 01:20, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Dang, this stuff is complicated! Now I know why John prefers I make the edits here instead of him, LOL! Anyway, "Farewell to Haven" (not Heaven) is not in the new book. However, since I was already asking John about the author for "The Lost and the Founder" I asked him about the author for "Farewell to Haven" also. I'll report back on that as soon as I get the answers. So, I should just type in a new content record for "The Lost and the Founders" instead of importing, right?
BTW, the short story Janesport War listed in CoDominium: Revolt on War World is listed as "Janesfort War" in War World: Discovery. Since the verifier Dragoondelight isn't around anymore, how do we check on that? I don't suppose you have a copy of the book, or know someone who does?
We'll have to rely on secondary sources until another primary verifier comes along. OCLC also gives it as "Janesfort War". I think our error, as you've learned before, was taken from Locus1 who gives it as "Janesport War". I'll make the correction, and you'll be able to merge the titles once you've created a record for War World: Discover. Mhhutchins 15:30, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
And while we're at it, you might as well let me know what to do about the short story Discovery (The Burning Eye) in The Burning Eye which appears in War World: Discovery as "Discovery." Will I have to title it Discovery (War World: Discovery)? Also, the author is uncredited in the old book, but listed as Jerry Pournelle in the new book. AndonSage 01:57, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
We'll have to make them variants based on the title and author credit. Mhhutchins 15:30, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
UPDATE: Jeesh, this just got even more complicated :( According to [Jerry Pournelle's Future History Reading Order] (under the heading The War World Stories), the short story "Discovery" in War World: Discovery is actually Prolog from The Burning Eye. Also note that while the stories "The Lost and the Founder" and "In Concert" show "reprinted in..." the stories "Discovery" and "The Garden Spot" say "expanded in..." So basically, I need to know how the five previously published stories should be entered. Should I just go ahead and type in all the stories without importing any, and we can worry about merging the ones that should be merged later?
Yes. Go ahead and create a record for War World: Discovery without regard to how certain titles are already in the database. After that we'll determine which ones will need to be merged and which will need to be varianted. Worrying about that now is just a head game. Once the records are in the system, we'll do the actual work. Mhhutchins 15:30, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
I was also wondering if it's ok to put a new series underneath the current War World series. While War World: Discovery is the 9th War World book, it's also the 1st book in the new reboot of the series (and the 2nd new book will be out very soon according to John). I was thinking of calling it the War World Central series, based on John F. Carr's War World Central website. John likes the idea too, so we can begin numbering the new books with 1. AndonSage 03:53, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Yes. Creating a new series will be fine. But it should only be for the title records of the books and not for the stories that have been placed into the original series. They may need some straightening out later, but we'll only know that once more books in the new series are published. Mhhutchins 15:30, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
UPDATE 2: I heard back from John regarding the correct author of the stories "The Lost and the Founder" and "Farewell to Haven" and he said that E. R. Stewart wrote both of those pieces. Apparently it was Jim Baen's decision not to credit Stewart in CoDominium: Revolt on War World for those stories, but because John is the editor of the new books, as he says: "Since I'm in charge (as editor and publisher) of the new War World reissues, I can give credit where credit is due." :) Is it ok if I change the comments in the notes for CoDominium to credit Stewart? I won't change any of the contents. AndonSage 06:00, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
No. That's not necessary. We're going to create variant records which will give Stewart credit and that credit will be shown in the old books as well as the new. Software display takes care of that. Mhhutchins 15:30, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

War World: Discovery

I have the submission to clone this record to create one for the ebook edition. If you know the contents are identical, it would have been better to update the first record, before you clone it. That way, all of the contents would be automatically transferred to the cloned edition and you wouldn't have to do any merging. As it is, I'll accept the submission and ask that you add the contents. After that, you can export the contents into the record for the hardcover edition. This will also keep you from having to merge the records. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:44, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I only have the Kindle version, not the hardcover, and I wanted to get the records created for each format. Since we've been discussing the way to handle the stories in this anthology, I figured we could export the contents once it was all straightened out. Normally I would have done it the way you said, this was just an exception. Thanks for accepting the submission, I'll be getting the contents typed in quickly. AndonSage 18:58, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
UPDATE: I'm going to submit the War World: Discovery contents after I write this paragraph, but I wanted you to know why I did a couple of things, in case you had questions. Based on Pournelle's Future History: Reading Order for The War World Series, the prior published stories that have 'expanded' from the prior version I added '(War World: Discovery)' to the title, and dated them to the new book. The stories that have 'reprinted' from the prior version I didn't change the title and dated to the original book. Since the expanded stories aren't the same as the originals, I figured they would be considered new stories. Also, "Astronomy Lesson" is uncredited in the e-book. I figure it was written by John F. Carr, but I wrote him to ask to find out for sure. When I find out who wrote it, should I enter the author's name, or does it get left at uncredited, and I put a comment in the notes to credit it? AndonSage 20:10, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately, we have a limited way of noting that a stories with the same title and the same author credit are not textually the same story. Variants are created based solely on two criteria: a change in title, or a change in author credit. They can not be created based on textual changes in the story. These records should be merged and then noted in the title record's note field. For example, "This story was expanded when it was reprinted in War World: Discover" or "The version in War World: Discovery is an expansion of the original publication." There have been discussions to create a new type of variant based on changes in text, but that's all in the planning stage and implementation is probably far into the future. As for now, all we can do is merged the records. Some people play tricks with the system by changing the name of the story, like "A Story (expanded)" but that's not the standard.
As for "Astronomy Lesson": again, I can not stress this stronger, we have to credit stories and books EXACTLY as they're recorded in the actual publications. If it's not credited as published, we have to give the author as "uncredited". When we have a definitive source of who the author is, only then do we create a variant record giving him credit. BUT this does not change the original record, because in fact, the story is "uncredited" regardless of whether we know who the author is. If you have any questions about how to create variants, just ask, either on my talk page or at the help desk. Mhhutchins 20:28, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Regarding the two 'expanded' stories... (1) Discovery in War World: Discovery is titled differently than the story Prolog (which I'm pretty sure should actually be titled "Prolog: Discovery") in The Burning Eye on which it's based. There is another story titled Discovery in The Burning Eye that has nothing to do with the story "Discovery" in War World: Discovery. So since there is a title change, I should make "Discovery (War World: Discovery)" a variant of "Prolog (The Burning Eye)", correct? (2) Since the titles match up for The Garden Spot in CoDominium: Revolt on War World and The Garden Spot in War World: Discovery, can I just remove '(War World: Discovery)' from the title in the new publication, and that will change the title record, and then I can merge them? Or is it more complicated? I don't want to create more problems if that's not the correct way to fix it.
I haven't heard back from John, yet, regarding the author for "Astronomy Lesson." I see that there's a menu option for creating a Variant Title, so I shouldn't have a problem creating one. If I do, I'll post a question on your talk page. Thanks :) AndonSage 22:14, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
1) Yes. Make "Discovery (War World: Discovery)" a variant of "Prolog (The Burning Eye)". 2) Yes. Merge the two records and you'll get a reconciliation page. Choose the non-disambiguated title (the one without the title of the book). Thanks. Mhhutchins 00:20, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
You didn't have to change the title of the title record for "The Garden Spot" before merging. As I explained above, that can be done at the time of the merge during reconciliation of the two records. Mhhutchins 01:28, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
I didn't see a way to manually merge the titles. The only time I've been able to merge titles is when I check the Author for duplicates, and it brings up duplicate title names. Since "The Garden Spot" is not the same as "The Garden Spot (War World: Discovery)" I didn't think that the find duplicates function would list them.
You can click on "Show All Titles" on the author's summary page and merge any number of an author's stories. Or if the author has more than 100 titles, you can go to Advanced Search (linked at the top of every database page) and search by title. In this case "garden spot" would have returned two records, which you could have merged by checking the boxes by each title. Mhhutchins 02:06, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
I heard back from John about the story "Astronomy Lessons." The author is Steven Shervais. He is listed as the author in the hardcover edition in the table of contents. The Kindle's interactive ToC doesn't list the author names, though. Do we have to have two versions of the title now, with the Kindle version as a variant of the hardcover version? Or can we just credit Steven Shervais as the author in the Kindle edition since he's listed in the hardcover edition, and not in an entirely different book? AndonSage 01:40, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
If the story isn't credited in the ebook, it must remain uncredited. (I've stressed this point repeatedly). If it's credited in the hardcover, then we can make it the parent record and the uncredited ebook record into a variant of the credited one. If you would like to do the exporting of contents to the hardcover record, I can show you how to remove a content and add another one. This is a multiple submission process. You have to export all the contents, not just selected ones. Ready to give it a try? Mhhutchins 02:06, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I just wanted to make sure that uncredited thing applied even with different versions of the same book. Ya, I'm ready to export the contents, although I don't have the hardcover edition, so we'll need to blank out the page numbers, and I won't be able to verify it. But did we want to fix "Janesport War" vs. "Janesfort War" and then merge the title records first, or can that just be done later? AndonSage 02:12, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Go ahead and merge those titles, using either of the methods that I outlined above. Once the ebook record is in good shape, copy the record number in your browser's address window that follows the question mark. In this case, it's 359568. Then go to the pub record for the hardcover edition (here). Click on "Import Content" under the Editing Tools menu. Enter 359568 in the first box and uncheck the box to include page numbers (we don't want to include the numbers of the ebook, because they're not really page numbers.) Then submit. Once that's accepted, I'll show you how to remove the uncredited content record for "Astronomy Lessons" and then add a new one that is credited. Mhhutchins 02:24, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Whoops, I got ahead of you. Let me cancel my submission. BRB AndonSage 02:26, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Ok, back. I thought you were going to change "Janesport" to "Janesfort"? In the prior section above, regarding "Janesport," you said "I'll make the correction, and you'll be able to merge the titles once you've created a record for War World: Discovery." But it's still showing "Janesport" in Codominium: Revolt on War World. I don't know how to merge two titles with different names if I can't merge them using "Check for Duplicates." Waiting to hear from you... AndonSage 02:32, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
It had slipped my mind that I had told you I would fix it. It would be better if you learned how to merge titles without having to use the "Check for Duplicates" function. I've explained above the two other methods of merging: starting with You can click on "Show All Titles".... (I've bolded the section above.) Mhhutchins 03:03, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Sweet :) I don't know how I missed that, I'm sorry. I've submitted the merge, and will move to the next step when it's approved. Thanks! :) AndonSage 03:10, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

[unindent] Now that the contents have been imported to the hardcover edition, go there and click on "Remove Titles From This Pub" under Editing Tools. On the next page you'll see a list of all the content title records. Check the box next to "Astronomy Lesson" and submit. Mhhutchins 03:43, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Now go back to the hardcover record and click on "Edit This Pub". On the next screen go to the bottom of contents and click "Add Title". Complete the set of field for "Astronomy Lesson" giving Steven Shervais credit as the author. You don't have to fill out any other field. Then submit. Mhhutchins 03:45, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

You'll have to wait until the previous submission has been accepted to go on. Next step, go to the original record for "Astonomy Lesson" here. Click on "Make This Title a Variant Title or Pseudonymous Work". On the next page change the Author1 field from "uncredited" to "Steven Shervais". Submit. Mhhutchins 03:48, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Last step (after the previous submission has been accepted), go the summary page for Steven Shervais and click on "Check for Duplicate Titles". Check the boxes for the two title records for "Astronomy Lesson". Hopefully this will be a good tutorial for future submissions that require you to remove/add content records and then merge any newly created matching records. There is another method that would have saved you from merging (at the variant step using the record number) but that can wait for another day. Mhhutchins 03:53, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the lesson :) I'll complete the last step when the prior edits are approved. AndonSage 03:56, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Everything looks great. Go back to your record for the ebook edition. Look at how "Astronomy Lesson" is credited. You see now that the true author is credited as well as how the publication credits the story. When you get a chance go to the title records of each of the stories that were expanded and make a statement in their note fields about the expansion. After all that work, I need a glass of wine. Have a good night. Mhhutchins 04:02, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
You too! Thanks again :) AndonSage 04:04, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Hunters Blade Trilogy - Cover Art

Hi - I put your submission to update the cover art on Hunters Blade Trilogy. I'm just trying to get an understanding of where the artwork you are submitting came from. Is it from a side of the box/cube that isn't shown on the Amazon picture? Is it a back cover of the three paperbacks? The only major places I can find showing that artwork online is Ebay Australia, and the now defunct Borders site, - Thanks Kevin 04:24, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

It's from one of the sides of the box (what I consider the front, with the box spine on your left (like a book's spine would be on your left)). The Amazon cover art that was there does NOT match in any way what the box actually looks like. I can try to use my digital camera to take a picture of the box, at an angle like the Amazon picture had, if you want. AndonSage 05:57, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
I've got a new picture now. Can you accept the prior edit please? It has changes that aren't just the cover image, and I can't remember them all. Once it's accepted, I'll upload the new picture. Thanks :) AndonSage 08:06, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Accepted Submission. I think an 'ortho' picture would be great (to help explain the different between what is in our record and what is at Amazon).. (Imagine someone shopping for this on ebay 20 years from now...using ISFDB as a reference). Even if you don't upload the Ortho picture, just a note that the 'amazon' style picture is wrong and the box cover is what's displayed would be enough. Thanks Kevin 15:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
I uploaded the picture I took with my digital camera. Let me know if you think it's ok. AndonSage 23:38, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Awesome! Now verify that puppy. Thanks! Kevin 23:58, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Done. Thanks :) AndonSage 00:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Artists credits from other websites

Hey - I approved your submissions tonight, but you should seriously consider putting in reference links or at least a statement of the source of information for the cover artist credit. Often the cover artist is unknown and not credited in the book. Just because you give the link to the moderator.. that information isn't saved and 2 years from now.. even 2 days from now. we as a group won't know where that info came from.... and if we can't find it later... it gets treated as second class information. Thanks Kevin 03:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't have those books, so can't confirm, but I'm pretty sure that "Herring" (which was in the field before my changes) comes from the artist's signature on the cover. That's how he signs his covers. I had to research for the Exile to Hell book I have which was signed that way. So I checked the Deathlands list at the official web site and confirmed each book. Anyway, anyone verifying those books will see the "Herring" signature. If I was verifying, I would have posted the link in the notes. AndonSage 04:05, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
You don't have to limit yourself to only posting links when you verify. Next time just put the link and website info into the notes block instead of the 'notes to moderator' block. You might have to slightly reformat the link, but this will save it so folks coming along later can get to the same information you used. Thanks Kevin 05:35, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
I went back and entered the info into the notes. AndonSage 20:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)


The LCCN link added to this record is empty. Mhhutchins 13:29, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Fixed, thanks :) AndonSage 13:40, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

David Drake - Hammer's Slammers - Table of Organization and Equipment

I corrected the spelling of Table of Organization and Equipment, Hammer's Regiment. Previously it used the word Orginization, and I've corrected this to Organization. This matches the spelling in the three publications I own where it appears. When you get a chance, you might want to double check your verified publication, but I suspect this typo has been haunting the database for several years. I verified all 3 pubs with the wrong spelling, and only caught it when I was editing something else later. - Thanks - Kevin 06:15, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

My copy of Hammer's Slammers is still packed away from my move. However, I'm pretty sure I cloned the record from a prior one, or imported the contents, since my copy is the 7th printing. So I'm sure it's a typo. Thanks for catching that :) AndonSage 06:32, 3 October 2011 (UTC)


I recommend you go ahead and primary verify all the gazettes you are going to be editing on (before all the edits are submitted)... this will signal to the other moderators that you have original copies of the older electronic editions. Kevin 04:21, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Will do! AndonSage 04:25, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Ring of Fire II

I corrected the title of Second Issue? by adding the question mark. It looks like I left it off (and added it to the next entry) when I verified the electronic version way back when and this propagated into the hard cover entry. This now matches my hardcover in hand. Similarly, I removed a stray question mark from Diving Belle. Thanks Kevin 03:04, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for finding the errors. I pulled my copy to check :) I verified Ring of Fire II back when I was still relatively new to this, and I probably didn't do a thorough check on the titles, since they had already been entered (I was more trusting back then, hehe). For example, I know that these days I would add a note regarding the ellipses after This'll Be the Day . . . about how they aren't present for its entry in the ToC. AndonSage 20:09, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Legends II

I added the interior art to this verified pub, and changed the author of the essay "The Tales of Alvin Maker" from Orson Scott Card to Robert Silverberg. --Willem H. 20:03, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I guess I didn't think about the endpaper art because there wasn't any cover art. Nice catch on the essay author. AndonSage 20:51, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Orson Scott Card - Ender's War

I updated your verified pub Ender's War to expand the notes and added the gutter code information. Thanks Kevin 13:54, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


Maps are specialized form of interior art so we add "(map)" to the title of the interiorart record. For example, a map in A Science Fiction Book would be titled "A Science Fiction Book (map)". The only exception is if the map itself has a title: a map of that is specifically titled "Neverland" in the book can be titled "Neverland (map)" or "A Science Fiction Book (map of Neverland)", but not "Map of Neverland (A Science Fiction Book)". So the maps in this record should be either "Rise of a Merchant Prince (map of Midkemia)" or "Midkemia (map)". This latter method helps to merge maps that are used in more than one book in a series. Mhhutchins 23:25, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Ok. If I change the record for the first book, Magician, can I then import just the maps of Midkemia and Kelewan into other books that use them? Because I think that if I just retype the information into other books, it'll create separate records for them, right? Or should I just let it create separate records and then merge them later? I'm not sure if I can import only a couple of content records into other books without importing the main book info. AndonSage 23:37, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Unless they fixed the import bug (all contents get imported including the novel title record), it's best to create content records in each of the pubs, and then merge the title records for identical maps. Mhhutchins 02:39, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Linking to Locus1

I've removed the link you placed in the notes to the Locus1 database. Because they use moving anchors (they adjust as more data is added), these links are not stable. It is better just to give the source without linking. Thanks. Mhhutchins 14:53, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Sorry. It's been a while since I was last adding SFBC books. AndonSage 15:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Fuzzies and Other People

Scanned in an image , added a couple of minor notes to [this]. --~ Bill, Bluesman 18:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

The Time Patrol

I added the LCCN to the notes of The Time Patrol by Poul Anderson. Bob 16:42, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Pagination in Under the Moons of Mars

Do the brackets around the page numbers of the contents in this record indicate that the pages are not numbered? Mhhutchins 03:26, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes. I thought brackets are supposed to be used when pages aren't numbered. AndonSage 03:30, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Recording additional pages in the page count field

When recording additional pages, do not leave a space between the plus sign and its surrounding numbers or characters: e.g. 281+[4], ix+179, [3]+366. Thanks. Mhhutchins 17:31, 14 March 2012 (UTC)


I'm holding a submission to add a new record for Dune, with an ISBN of 0425036987 and a date of 1977-08-15. We have several records already with this ISBN, and your submission doesn't give a printing number. And the date must be from a secondary source, because Berkley doesn't give a day date on its publications. The URL for the image you've linked it to is broken. And you've not noted the source for your data. I'll hold the submission until you can respond to this message. Mhhutchins 21:34, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

I was using an already existing, non-verified, record to add my Berkley Medallion 12th edition copy. The only thing I've done so far is import the contents from another record, before I made any changes. So anything you're seeing was already there, like the date and the URL. The publication date of 1977-08-15 is from the Amazon record, as far as I can tell. I would be changing that to 0000-00-00 because there are multiple printings with the same ISBN, and none of them give a printing date for their printing. I figured I might as well use that existing record because otherwise it would never be used. AndonSage 21:40, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Oh, and I'll be uploading my own cover, so whatever URL is there won't be used, either. AndonSage 21:42, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
I'll approve it and let you make the necessary changes. In the future, inform the moderator (in the "Note to Moderator" field) what you plan to do with the record after approval. Thanks. Mhhutchins 22:43, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. I had no idea just importing the contents of another record created an entirely new record. I don't remember seeing a "Note to Moderator" field when doing the import (I know it's there when editing a record), but I'll check next time. AndonSage 23:03, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
You may be right. The "Note to Moderator" is not available on every submission, but in this case it should be. And you're right again: importing doesn't create a new record. I should have asked why you felt you had to update this particular record when you could have cloned the one with the contents and then updated it all in one submission. And if you felt that the stub record was an invalid record, it would be just as easy to delete it. After all these years working on the database, I only see the simplest straightest path to get to my goal, and I'm rather myopic when it comes to other ways of reaching the same one. A failing on my part, I admit. Mhhutchins 23:47, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Heh, I have to admit to some short-sightedness on my part, too :) I saw a record that wasn't being used and figured I might as well use it (because it already had the ISBN for my book), and never even considered deleting it and cloning the record with the contents I wanted. AndonSage 23:57, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
I just imported content into another edition of Dune (40th Anniversary edition), and there isn't any "Note to Moderator" field when Importing Content. It does appear, though, from that screen, that importing creates a new record as a clone operation ("This tool performs a clone operation on a publication."), so I'm figuring it must then also delete the old record. Not really sure of the database operations behind the scenes, though. AndonSage 00:25, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Same here. I leave all that background stuff to the experts. But I'm pretty sure that neither importing nor cloning deletes the record that you're importing from or cloning. Mhhutchins 04:22, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Well, cloning certainly wouldn't delete the old record, since the purpose is to create a new record. What I was saying is that if the import function is simply using the clone function language, and doesn't actually create an entirely new record, then there is no reason to delete a record. But if it's actually creating a new record like it says on the screen, then it would need to delete the old record, otherwise there would be an extra record out there without the imported content. That's all I was referring to :) AndonSage 04:31, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

"Better to Beg Forgiveness . . .", by Michael Z. Williamson

You proposed several changes to this e-publication. I agree with all of them, except for changing the price to $0.00. We generally list the original price for a book, even (for example) when later printings come out with higher prices but without a printing number line to indicate that it's a later printing. Carrying that over to the e-book situation, we would either: (1) Make a note of the later change in price; or (2) List the later version as a separate printing at a changed price. So I've left the price as $6.00, and I'll leave it to you to decide whether you want to note the price change as a note or as a "new printing". For now, I've left your note about it being available as part of the Baen Free Library, but you might wish to augment that note, since the price will still be listed as $6.00. By the way, you might wish to look at this discussion for a recommendation to use approach (2), although that's not binding. Chavey 17:07, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I think I prefer option (1), because the book itself isn't really a new book. I'll go ahead and change the notes in the current record. I also entered "Baen Free Library" into the Pub. Series field, to match the other free Baen books. AndonSage 23:50, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

The Dark Door Opens

Is the publisher of this book stated as "Berkley / Pacer" on the title page? Ordinarily this format indicates that "Berkley" is the imprint and "Pacer" is the publisher. This is the first use of the publisher name in the db, with all of the others entered as Berkley Pacer. Thanks for double-checking. Mhhutchins 21:12, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

The title page has "Pacer Books for Young Adults (over) Berkley Books, New York" at the bottom. I was going by the copyright page, which has all the following:
  • This Berkley / Pacer book contains the complete text of the original edition.
  • A Berkley/Pacer Book, published by arrangement with Century Hutchinson Limited
  • Berkley/Pacer edition / February 1987
  • Berkley/Pacer Books are published by The Berkley Publishing Group
In regards to Pacer, the copyright page also says: "Pacer is a trademark belonging to The Putnam Publishing Group." Anyway, just let me know how it should be entered. I've got another one to enter. Thanks :)
AndonSage 21:30, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Based on the credit in your book it should be "Pacer Books for Young Adults / Berkley Books" so that it follows the pattern of "imprint / publisher", but for now let's stick with "Berkley Pacer". I'll check out some other records for the publisher and see if the whole thing should be changed. Thanks. Mhhutchins 21:49, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Okay. I'll make the changes to "Berkley Pacer." AndonSage 21:52, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Grey Star the Wizard

Unusual page count numbering in this record. Can you recheck? According to OCLC (which may be wrong), the page count is 350. Thanks. Mhhutchins 21:56, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't need to check, since I had to count all those pages :) Anyway, the last page number is 33. After that, the numbers listed at the top of the pages are the chapter numbers the reader turns to, as they go along on their adventure. The last chapter is 350, which actually covers several pages. This is a choose-your-own adventure novel. AndonSage 22:58, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
So you page count makes sense, but only if you record that the book is an unpaginated choose-your-own adventure novel in the note field. Thanks. Mhhutchins 23:04, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Done. Is the wording ok? AndonSage 23:31, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes, very well. Thanks. Mhhutchins 23:37, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

The Vacant Throne

Added the map & expanded the notes for The Vacant Throne. -- JLaTondre (talk) 22:49, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Jason Cosmo

What is the intention in changing the name of the series to "Jason Cosmo (Original)"? Is there another series with the same name? If so, wouldn't the original keep the name and the other one be disambiguated? Mhhutchins 05:56, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Dan McGirt has begun a new Jason Cosmo series, beginning with "Hero Wanted," which is a rewrite of "Jason Cosmo" (1989). The second book, called "Noble Cause" was released earlier this month. He refers to the original three Jason Cosmo books as "The Original Jason Cosmo Non-Trilogy" in his new books. So my plan is to rename the original series, and then create a new Jason Cosmo series, which will include the books "Hero Wanted" and "Noble Cause" (so far). "Hero Wanted" currently shows as #4 in the Jason Cosmo series, but that will be renumbered to #1 for the current series. As Dan McGirt explains, "Hero Wanted reboots the series, with a retelling of the events of Jason Cosmo." Here are Dan's words from the MOBI version of "Hero Wanted":
The Original Jason Cosmo Non-Trilogy
Note: These ebooks—Jason Cosmo, Royal Chaos, Dirty Work—present the text of the original Jason Cosmo series, three books published in the late 20th century. The relaunched series, described above, supercedes these versions, but they are offered for those who may wish to read the “old” versions.
AndonSage 22:20, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
I'll accept the submission, even though it would have made more sense to create a new series name for the new series. Mhhutchins 22:53, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Ebooks and page count

Hi. In light of ISFDB:Community_Portal#Unpaginated, I accepted your submission of Rainy Daze but removed "unpaginated" from the page count and added a "Not paged" bullet to the notes. I know I previously accepted "unpaginated" without change, and I apologize for the inconsistency. --MartyD 11:34, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

S'ok, everyone accepted "unpaginated." I used it because when I first started entering e-books, I looked at an already-entered e-book to see how it should be entered, and it had "unpaginated" so that's what I used. AndonSage 04:20, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Bureau 13

Added notes to Bureau 13. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:54, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Maps of Midkemia, Kelewan and Novindus

I am in the process of adding publication data to ISFDB for my copies of Raymond E. Feist's Riftwar and Serpentwar books, and also those books he co-wrote with Janny Wurts. I am not sure, though, which of the various maps that appear in my books match the title records already in the ISFDB. I have made scans of the maps and put them up on my website. Could you please have a look at the images and tell me, which of them match the title records in the books that you have verified?

I have found the following map title records:

And these are my scanned images:

  • S1: Midkemia (map from Magician)
  • S2: Kelewan (map from Magician)
  • S3: Midkemia (map from Silverthorn)
  • S4: Kelewan (map from Daughter of the Empire)
  • S5: Novindus (map from Rise of a Merchant Prince)

It would be nice if you could make a short list where you say, for instance, "T1 matches S1, T2 has no match, etc".

While you are at it :-) do you know why we have two "map II" titles (T2 + T3)? Is there a reason why T3 does not have the suffix "map III" (roman numeral for 3)?

Thanks for your time, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 22:17, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Patrick, sorry for the delay in responding, I was out of town visiting relatives for Easter. I'll compare the books & maps on Monday, Apr 9, and let you know what's what. AndonSage 02:34, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Ok, here's what I have for you:
  • T1 = S3
  • T2 is approximately S1, but the font is slightly different
  • T3 is not something I entered or verified, so I have no idea what that map looks like. You have to ask JLaTondre
  • T4 = S5
  • S4 is approximately the Kelewan map from Magician, but the font is slightly different and/or placed.
As far as I can tell, there are two main types of maps, which are based on geographic symbols and fonts. One has a sans-serif font, like an Arial (this map type can be found in Magician, like your S3). The other font is a serif font, like in your S1 (these are the maps done by Claire Vaccaro). However, there are also sub-types of these maps, where the fonts and map are very similar, but subtly different. For example, your S4 is very similar to the Kelewan map in Magician, but the Kelewan map in Magician has 4 mountains to the left of "THURIL(over)HIGHLANDS" (sample picture) and your S4 only has 2. With the serif fonts, the difference shows in the letter "e", where your S1 uses a small "e" but the maps in The King's Buccaneer use a capital "E". You can see this most easily in "THE ENDLESS SEA." I took a picture of this last example, you can see it in this picture. Also notice how the "K" has a taller left side in your S1, or "THE BLACKWOOD" starts outside the geographical feature on my map. Just some other differences, there are more, even though the maps look very similar :) Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help you with your project. AndonSage 02:48, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

The Artifact

Hi, Gary. I added an OCLC Cat# to the note field of The Artifact --John L.-- Syzygy 05:21, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

The Frog Wizard

If the two versions of this story are entirely different stories, then they should be separated. If the latter is a revision or rewritten version, then they remain under the same title record with a note for explanation. The ISFDB currently has no way of varianting records based on text. If the stories have the same title and are by the same credited author, rules say they must be merged. If they're not the same story, we have to change the name of one so that one won't be merged with the other. Mhhutchins 03:20, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Here's what the author says in the introduction to the story, after talking about a book of stories he wrote for his wife, which included a story called "The Frog Wizard"...

...I proceeded to rewrite "The Frog Wizard" in several versions—six in all. One of them was an Ethshar version. I actually sold one of the other versions, though; it was published in the January 1993 issue of Science Fiction Age. The Ethshar version was shelved and forgotton about—until I started assembling this book, when I realized that if I was going to be complete, it needed to be included. So here it is, a technically-never-before-published Ethshar story...

So, hopefully that helps you decided how to classify the title. AndonSage 08:38, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

The Chessmen of Mars

I have been adding the essay "Jetan, or Martian Chess" to the US editions of Burroughs' The Chessmen of Mars per Henry Hardy Heins' A Golden Anniversary Bibliography of Edgar Rice Burroughs. Heins states that the 1963 Ballantine edition includes this appendix. Could you check your copy for this appendix? Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 14:14, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

"Jetan, or Martian Chess" is on pages 219-220 of my copy. AndonSage 22:28, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Salvatore's The Dragon King

I added a cover image to The Dragon King, which you verified. Ofearna 22:57, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! My copy has a bookstore sticker on the front cover, so I didn't want to use that image. AndonSage 16:47, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Born to Exile

I just added cover art credit for Phyllis Eisenstein's Born to Exile -- the cover art by Richard Hescox was in the card set and appeared in the artbook The Deceiving Eye.Ofearna 21:58, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks :) You should probably add a note for where credit for the cover art came from, and you could also Primary 2 verify. AndonSage 04:07, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Annals of the Time Patrol

I updated your verified pub Annals of the Time Patrol with the complete contents of the collected collections, and also updated the notes to include my SFBC copy with no gutter code. - Thanks Kevin 00:49, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good, although I'm not sure what you mean by "with the complete contents of the collected collections," since I don't remember what was there before. Do you mean the contents were more compressed, previously? If so, fine with me :) Btw, you mis-spelled "the" as "teh." Might want to fix that :) AndonSage 04:13, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

"The Hunter's Blades Trilogy", by R. A. Salvatore

I added a page count to your verified edition of this book, taken from the OCLC record (the link to which was added to the notes). Chavey 01:43, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Maps and diagrams for Lisanne Norman's 'Sholan Alliance' series

Hi Gary, I'm going through Lisanne Norman's 'Sholan Alliance' series and finding different overlapping records for Michael Gilbert's assorted maps and diagrams that appear across various publications in the series, often given different titles or sometimes grouped together with other artwork under one record. The individual maps/diagrams appear split across different titles in the series, and not always together in the same publication. So rather than have a few overlapping records for the various pieces of artwork as they appear (or do not appear) across separate publications, I've begun the process of creating specific records for each piece of Interior Art for this series.

I'd appreciate your input: I've not altered your verified pub Shades of Gray, but I've retitled one Interior Art record in it because this piece of artwork also appears in other titles in the series. So, what was "Map of Sholan Alliance and Valtegan Empire (Shades of Gray)" is now just Map of Sholan Alliance and Valtegan Empire: this Interior Art record can now be included in other pubs in the series where the map appears, as it now does here. Your verification also has an entry "Shades of Gray (drawings)" which encompasses three pieces of Interior Art that appear in at least one other title. I don't have a copy of Shades of Gray but from your description in the Note the three appear identical to the artwork that appears on three separate pages in another publication, Between Darkness and Light: see the separate Interior Art records in that pub. And I do not know if these three illustrations have always appeared grouped together across the series, hence the separate titles for each, in case they don't. I can add these new individual records to your verified pub if you wish, and delete the less specific "Shades of Gray (drawings)" record. Or would you prefer to do it, or would you prefer the pub left as is?

Also, do you have other titles in this series for which we can then complete accurate pub records for the series? I only have three, and most of the series of eight remains unverified. Thanks. PeteYoung 06:42, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Hiya Pete, thanks for trying to consolidate the separate entries in this series. Unfortunately, I only have the one book in the series, which I picked up at Borders on the last day they were in business when everything was 90% off. My plan was to buy the first book in the series later on, to see if I liked it and possibly continue with the series, but I haven't gotten around to doing that yet. So I don't have any of the other books in this series. I can't comment on the drawings being the same as in another book, because I have no books to compare them to. If you can verify the drawings as being the same as others, then feel free to make the changes. AndonSage 18:51, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
I've managed to check out a copy of Shades of Gray since I left this message and the three "Shades of Gray (drawings)" illustrations are the same as those in Between Darkness and Light. The other titles in this series I've not yet seen but will be keeping an eye out for them! I'll make the changes, and thanks for getting back. PeteYoung 19:03, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

DAW Collectors publication series

In filling out the DAW Collectors Books publication series, I have a question about a book that you verified. S. Andrew Swann's Hostile Takeover Trilogy, 3rd printing, has a note with the "DAW Collector's Number". Since many reprint editions didn't actually list this number, I was hoping you could tell me whether this note was "inherited" from other editions of the book, or whether it actually appears on this edition of the book, and if so, where -- e.g. on the cover, the spine, or the copyright page. Thanks much, Chavey 20:37, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

The DAW Book Collectors number 1310 is on both the front cover at the lower left corner, and on the copyright page. Hope that helps :) AndonSage 15:48, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the help! I added that edition to the publication series. Chavey 18:34, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Spelling differences in Dune appendix titles

Hi. You have verified this and this publication of Dune. In a publication of the novel that I own I have found some spelling differences for two of the appendix titles. The question is: Are these spelling mistakes that were made when the ISFDB titles were created, or do these spelling mistakes actually exist in printed pubs? To clear this up, could you please check the following things in your books?

I need to know the titles as they appear inside the book, but it might also be interesting to know if there are differences in the table of contents (assuming your books have a TOC). Thanks for your time, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 19:37, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Mhhutchins has already approved my edits and the title records in question have been merged. Please let me know if you do not agree with what happened. I will continue to monitor your talk page for a few days more for your response, afterwards please write directly to my talk page. Thanks, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 00:19, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
For the mass market paperback edition, the TOC does indeed say Appendix IV: The Almanaken-Ashraf (Selected Excerpts of the Noble Houses) but page 511 says Appendix IV: The Almanak en-Ashraf (Selected Excerpts of the Noble Houses). For the notes, there is no TOC entry. The TOC says Map... 536 and the Cartographic Notes are on page 535. Note there is no for Map.
For the 40th Anniversary trade paperback edition, both the TOC and actual page say Appendix IV: The Almanak en-Ashraf (Selected Excerpts of the Noble Houses). But the Cartographic Notes are the same as in the paperback edition, although with different page numbers. AndonSage 13:30, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for looking this up. So apparently the merge for "Cartographic Notes" has been premature since this is how the title actually appears in both of your books. I am going to fix this by re-creating a variant title and add it to both of your verified pubs. If you don't mind I will also add a note to the mass market paperback edition, indicating the spelling difference between TOC and actual title. I'll let you know as soon as I am finished so you can have another look. Cheers, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 14:35, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
I don't understand the importance of adding such work as independent "short stories" (which they are certainly not). These appendices are part of the novel and as such should not be part of the publication record. (Imagine creating records for prologues and epilogues, chapters, parts, and sections.) Just my two cents for what it's worth, but sometimes I think such details only add "noise" to a publication record. You can't see the forest because of all of the trees. Mhhutchins 18:45, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
I just originally cloned another record and went with it, for my copies. AndonSage 20:22, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
I agree with Mhhutchins, but since the title records exist we cannot just delete them... Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 19:14, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Patrick, knock yourself out :) Shouldn't those be listed as "essay" though? AndonSage 20:22, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Done (and learned a new English phrase, thanks for that :-)). About the "essay": Since the text refers to fictional places, I thought "shortstory" would be OK. I don't have a strong opinion, though, and won't object if you feel that "essay" is more appropriate. But you have to change it yourself, for the moment I am fed up with editing Dune stuff :-) Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 19:14, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


You verified this [1] as having a price of $2.95. My copy has a price of $3.95 ($4.95 in Canada). Is yours the same?Don Erikson 21:26, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

My copy is $2.95 US and $3.95 CAN. Does your copy show a printing line of "10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3" and "Ace Edition / May 1985" like mine? AndonSage 00:28, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
My copy says $3.95 US and $4.95 CAN. and shows a printing line of "10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3" and "Ace Edition / May 1985". So mine must be a later printing. I will clone yours and note the differences.Don Erikson 18:59, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

The Source of Magic

Re: The Source of Magic
My 14th printing has a date of June 1983. Could you recheck yours? Thx.--Astromath 00:48, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

I just checked, and all the information I entered into the record is correct. AndonSage 00:38, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
Ok. I wonder if I need to clone the pub or just make a note on that one concerning the differing dates for the 14th printing. Opinion? Or should I ask a moderator?--Astromath 04:37, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Well, I'd think you could do the same thing as the Note above this one, for "To Reign In Hell," which Don said he was going to do. Don said " I will clone yours and note the differences." Works for me :) AndonSage 19:14, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

"Dragonsdawn", by Anne McCaffrey

I added some notes and a content item (endpaper maps) to your verified edition of this book. Chavey 03:39, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Alrighty :) AndonSage 19:27, 7 January 2013 (UTC)


Re: Homeland Adding LCCN to notes.--Astromath 02:22, 8 January 2013 (UTC)


Please use this format to enter LCCNs and their links to the Library of Congress website: LCCN: <a href="">2001554740</a>. instead of <a href="">LCCN 2001554740</a>. (Place "LCCN" outside of the link with a colon.) This standardization will help if we ever get around to creating a field specifically for outside catalog numbers, making it easier to do a mass change rather than manually change each record. I've fixed the format in this record. Mhhutchins 14:18, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Will do. I've changed my template. AndonSage 19:22, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Roc / New American Library

Back in September of last year, a discussion resulted in combining the publications of Roc under one name: Roc / New American Library. I'm holding seven submissions to either add or update records to give publications other versions of their name. I'm assuming "Roc" is given as the publisher on the title pages of these books, but will you check the copyright page which indicates the books were "Published by New American Library" or something similar? We usually don't go further to give a higher corporate level for the publisher, e.g. Penguin Putnam in Never Sound Retreat (as seen in the Amazon "Look Inside"). Unless you have strong objection, and want start another discussion on the community page, I will accept the submission but change the publisher name to the standardized one. Thanks. Mhhutchins 14:41, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

I messed up on Never Sound Retreat (I should have entered "Roc / Dutton Signet") but was waiting for the edit to go through and then I could change it. The Lost Regiment books 1-6 have the following on the copyright page: "First published by Roc, an imprint of Dutton Signet, a member of Penguin Putnam Inc." Book 7 replaces "Dutton Signet" with "Dutton NAL" and Book 8 replaces "Dutton Signet" with "New American Library." If the convention is to make all Roc books show "Roc / New American Library," then feel free to use that in my edits. AndonSage 19:38, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Black Madonna

Currently there are two publications for this title, both of which purport to be the first printing. They're identical except for the ISBN. The other record gets a hit on OCLC, while the one for yours does not. Can you check to see if the ISBN is correctly entered? Or perhaps there are two different ISBNs, one on the copyright page and another on the cover? Thanks for looking. Also, one more thing: can you confirm the cover artist credit? Could it possibly be the work of Broeck Steadman? Thanks. Mhhutchins 23:49, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

My Shadowrun novels are in a box which will need to be pulled, so I'll try to get to the box tonight or tomorrow. In the meantime, I did some research. According to the list of Shadowrun novels wikipedia entry, "FASA published the original trade paperback through Contemporary Books. All subsequent novels were published by ROC, 40 with FASA (1990–2001), and six with WizKids (circa 2006). When the FASA era novels were re-released in 2003 the ISBNs were updated to include FASA's four digit SKU (ISBN ×-×××-×FFFF-×), prior to this the FASA SKU and ISBN were generally unrelated." Based on this thread, which indicates the SKU is 5539 for Black Madonna, I'm guessing that my copy is one of the 2003 re-releases. Also the note in the record that says "No Canadian pricing, assumed to be a 2003 Fanpro reprint." I'm also guessing that ROC didn't update the copyright page in the book except for the ISBN. I'll know more once I get the book out of the box. AndonSage 23:40, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
I'm still working on pulling the box out of storage, as I need help due to the box being in the back. Hopefully this Sunday. AndonSage 02:32, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*sigh* It looks like I might not be able to get to my boxes of books until Spring, when everything in front of them can be moved outside. AndonSage 23:14, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
Not a big deal. Just when you can get to it. I know exactly what you mean. Mhhutchins 00:00, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Got to the box of Shadowrun books, finally :) Anyway, the ISBN is 0-451-45539-8 on the spine, the back cover, and the copyright page. All of the notes entered for my verified record are correct. The number line is "10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1" and the cover artist is "Brooke Steadman." Of course, that could be a typo in the book. AndonSage 20:40, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for looking. Situations like this bug me...a lot, especially when another publisher reprints a book without making any acknowledgement of that fact. There should be a law!!! Thanks anyway. BTW, perhaps you should make it clear that the cover art credit is stated as such, as it's likely some other editor may come along with the same question. I'm 90% sure it's a typo, but on the outside chance that Broeck has a daughter artist, I'm willing to leave it be, and not create a pseudonym and variant. Mhhutchins 22:00, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Done. AndonSage 06:03, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

The Hyborian Age

I would like to reclassify "The Hyborian Age" from ESSAY to SHORTFICTION. The piece is obviously fiction; there are two pubs containing this content that I don't believe should be called NONFICTION based on the label ESSAY on "The Hyborian Age". You verified Conan with this content. Please comment on the proposed reclassification at my page. Bob 03:31, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

The Eye of the World

Hello! Your verified 39391 has interior art credited to both Matthew C. Nielsen and Ellisa Mitchell. However the notes (presumably copied from copyright page) credit only Matthew C. Nielsen. Also, there is verified tp of this book 298386 that credits only Matthew C. Nielsen and has different credits for maps! Could you please check. Thank you, ForJohnScalzi 04:04, 8 March 2013 (UTC).

Thanks for pointing this out. I'm submitting edits to the records. The notes are correct, the content is not. I probably just cloned the HC edition and didn't think to check the content. AndonSage 21:29, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
The Eye of the World (1990 tp) now has the correct content. AndonSage 18:08, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

"Dragonseye", by Anne McCaffrey

In your verified publication, you listed the map as "uncredited". The map does, however, contain the square block with Shelly Shapiro's distinctive "SS" mark, so I added the map credit for her. Chavey 03:22, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Since I have no idea who Shelly Shapiro is, go right ahead :) AndonSage 06:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
If you check out her Summary Page, you'll see she has more than 90 maps to her credit, many for McCaffrey. I've gotten used to seeing that "SS" block from her. Chavey 07:21, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Hehe, my point was that I had no idea "SS" in a square block meant Shelly Shapiro :) AndonSage 18:11, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [2].Don Erikson 22:07, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Conrad's Time Machine

I added words to the notes for Conrad's Time Machine. Bob 16:30, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Once Upon a Time: A Treasury of Modern Fairy Tales

I'd like to disambiguate the illustrations for this book which you've primary verified... do you mind? Susan O'Fearna 19:12, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

So you'd like to expand on the one "interior artwork" line? Go right ahead :) AndonSage 22:23, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Ace Conan

I'm adding Howard's Conan to a publication series. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 13:20, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

A question has been raised on my talk page about the creation of the Lancer/Ace/Sphere pub series. Please feel free to chime in there if you have any thoughts you'd like to share. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:14, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
It's above my pay grade :) AndonSage 23:08, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Lost in Translation

Can you confirm the spelling of the co-artist credit for the cover of this publication? Is it "Courtney" or "Cortney"? Thanks for checking. Mhhutchins 19:16, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

The copyright page has "Courtney." Of course, that could be misspelled, it's happened in other books. If you find the correct spelling, feel free to make a change to the record, and reply here. AndonSage 23:05, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
I leave it as stated, but will make it into a variant for the artist's canonical name. Thanks. Mhhutchins 23:15, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
Sounds good, thanks :) AndonSage 05:55, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Through the Breach

Hi, In your verified copy of Through the Breach you credit the cover art to Brice Jensen, but in the notes you state "Cover art by Bruce Jensen".--Dirk P Broer 20:36, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

My copy of "Through the Breach" is currently stored away. Doing some googling, there is no artist named Brice Jensen, but there is an artist Bruce Jensen. So let's go with Bruce :) AndonSage 22:44, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Medusa: A Tiger by the Tail

Hi. You are the primary verifier for 342399. My copy has an author's note on page [6] and an uncredited map The Warden Diamond on page [8] which I would like to add. Can I trouble you to check your copy, please? Many thanks. --AliHarlow 17:53, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for checking :) Yes, my copies (both First Edition and the second printing) have the author's note and the map. Feel free to add those to the record. AndonSage 23:00, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Orson Scott Card's The Worthing Chronicle

Replaced the Fantastic Fiction image of Orson Scott Card's The Worthing Chronicle with one I scanned. You are listed as Primary2 reference. Doug 18:47, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks AndonSage 11:00, 21 April 2020 (EDT)

"The Collected Stories: The Legend of Drizzt", by R.A. Salvatore

Using WorldCat, I added the contents to your verified publication. I was not, however, able to add the page numbers for those contents. Chavey 10:18, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Map in The Heritage of Hastur

Please join in this discussion regarding the map in [3]. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 01:38, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

added cover credit

I added cover art credit to The Chronicles of Pern Susan O'Fearna 20:16, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks :) AndonSage 11:01, 21 April 2020 (EDT)

The Number of the Beast

I added the cover artist's name to The Number of the Beast, that you verified. Bob 20:52, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks :) AndonSage 11:03, 21 April 2020 (EDT)

Visual Guide to Xanth

I submitted clarifying Notes to the Jody Lynn Nye titles (not publications) 28424 1987 Encyclopedia of Xanth and 26387 1989 Visual Guide to Xanth. --Pwendt|talk 23:45, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Oath of Swords

Added entries for maps and excerpt.[4]--Auric 13:59, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Alvin Wandering

Added note about maps. [5]--Auric 00:12, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Looks good, thanks :) AndonSage 11:05, 21 April 2020 (EDT)

Heirs Of Empire

Added an adjusted page count and some notes for this book. MLB 01:28, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Artist for Soarer's Choice

I playing second verifier to your first on this pub and noticed that the hc and pb had the same image and different artists. I talked with the hardcover verifier and the artist's website verifies his story. There is a signature on the cover (a kind of flattened dome with an umbrella) which shows up on other artwork by the hc artist. I'd like to update the artist - in spite of the credit - and explain in the notes. Do you have any objections? Doug H 03:02, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

No objections. Things like this can be hard to track down, nice work :) --AndonSage 11:09, 21 April 2020 (EDT)

The Fleet Of Stars

I added a couple of notes to The Fleet Of Stars. MLB 03:19, 6 December 2016 (UTC)


Added the ISBN and the LCCN for this book. MLB 08:59, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

A Breach in the Watershed

In the Notes section for A Breach in the Watershed it says "Stated Ace mass-market edition / July 1995". Shouldn't the date be July 1996"? --AndyjMo 16:35, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

You are correct, it should be 1996. --AndonSage 12:42, 21 April 2020 (EDT)

Manxome Foe

Can you check your copy of Manxome Foe. My copy has only 496 pages (includes the excerpt) whereas the record says 544. --AndyjMo 15:58, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

PV2 has agreed that the page count is wrong and has corrected it. I've now added a record for the Excerpt. --AndyjMo 18:02, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

War World: Discovery - e-ISBN

FYI, I have updated your verified War World: Discovery. The Kindle version, which you used to verify this edition, states that the ISBN is 978-0-937912-09-6, the same as the hardcover version. However, it looks like whoever prepared the Kindle file simply copied the data from the hardcover edition. Amazon's API shows that the actual ISBN is 978-0-937912-28-7. I have changed the ISBN in the record and updated the Note field with the details. Ahasuerus 15:02, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Thank you --AndonSage 11:07, 21 April 2020 (EDT)

Mutineer's Moon

Replaced the cover art of Mutineer's Moon with a scan of my copy. Updated the Notes (Printing History, Cover artist, Canadian Price). --AndyjMo 12:01, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Heirs of Empire

Replaced cover art of Heirs of Empire with a scan of my copy. Also added source of the Cover artist. --AndyjMo 12:14, 21 May 2017 (UTC)


I guess the cover artist of this pub should be George Steinmetz, he is also credited on rear jacket flap of this pub. --Zapp 10:52, 8 July 2017 (EDT)

On a Pale Horse

I've added the First Hardcover Edition date to On a Pale Horse. I've removed the LCCN identifier as this refers to the 1983 hardcover edition here. --AndyjMo 12:30, 19 August 2017 (EDT)

The Path of Daggers

The Path of Daggers has two maps titles listed, but the first has a page number of "del". I assume the book has the same maps that were in the others so "The Wheel of Time (maps)" is the correct one and "The Path of Daggers (maps)" should be removed? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:45, 21 April 2020 (EDT)

We moved just last Tuesday, and I'm still unpacking. I will check that as soon as I find the box with the book :) --AndonSage 17:31, 21 April 2020 (EDT)
I can't remember what "del" stands for, if it stands for anything. Maybe I meant for that line to be deleted? There are three maps in the book, two of which are the same. There is a colored Wheel of Time map on the inside front cover (fep) and inside back cover (bep). These maps are the same. There is also a black & white map on pages 10-11, which is different than the colored maps, although it covers the same area. It is signed "1994 Ellisa Mitchell." I probably cloned the original hardcover which has "The Path of Daggers • (1998) • interior artwork by Ellisa Mitchell and Matthew C. Nielsen" which I think refers to the artwork at the end of chapters and a few other places. There are no maps listed in that publication record, although I'm sure they have the same ones. Anyway that leaves the two different maps. While different, both the colored maps and the black & white map have "The Wheel of Time" in the upper left corner. I looked at my hardcover copy of Lord of Chaos and it has the same colored maps on the inside covers, and the same black & white map on pages 10-11. It says "Lord of Chaos (maps) • [Wheel of Time] • interior artwork by Ellisa Mitchell" so they used the title of the book for the maps, not "The Wheel of Time (maps)." All to say that I probably meant for that first line to be deleted, based on the tip in <>. I have submitted the removal of that line. --AndonSage 01:51, 28 April 2020 (EDT)
Also, it appears there are other books in the series that don't conform to "The Wheel of Time (maps)" like the Lord of Chaos record. --AndonSage 01:51, 28 April 2020 (EDT)
"del" usually means "delete" (i.e. remove from pub). Looking at the edit history, Bluesman is the one who marked it that way, but he is no longer around to ask. If a map is titled, we title it after the map. If it isn't titled, we title it after the book. It is also permissible to have a single "(maps)" entry for multiple maps. Based on your description, it sounds like things are entered correctly. I'm not surprised that other books don't match. Unless there is a common verifier that is willing to do the work to enter and consolidate (either merging if the same title or variant if not), common elements across pubs can get lost as there is no way for someone without all the pubs to know they are the same. Thanks for resolving this one. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:15, 28 April 2020 (EDT)

The Warlock In Spite of Himself

Welcome back! :-) The best place to ask questions about ISFDB data entry rules would be ISFDB:Help desk. I have posted your question about The Warlock In Spite of Himself there and replied with some suggestions. Ahasuerus 22:26, 27 April 2020 (EDT)

Thanks for checking this out. I'll head over to the help desk. --AndonSage 01:06, 28 April 2020 (EDT)

Book titles

When a book belongs to a series and the series and/or series number of the book is printed on the title page, the current practice is to simplify it. See the subtitles section: "The present (2018) usage is to enter only the "simplified" title, for example, you could enter the title for a publication as "Song of the Dragon" and the note would have "The title page states 'Song of the' over 'Dragon' over 'The annals of Drakis: Book One'."" . So for your example "The Chronicles of Galen Sword #1: Shifter" will usually be entered as "Shifter". It is cleaner and clutters the page less (and you can add any notes describing what else is on the page and where). The big exception of course is when the series name is different from what we have here (adding the series name up on the series field may be an option), when there are subseries that cannot be split into series (so A:B belongs to series C and there is no reason to make a series A) or the book simply does not have a separate title (see Bella Forest for an example). Hope that make sense. Annie 17:23, 29 April 2020 (EDT)

Seems clear enough, thanks :) --00:17, 30 April 2020 (EDT)

Saga of Recluse

You are a PV of at least one book in the series, please follow this link to review some proposed changes Saga of Recluse maps consolidation thanks John

On it :) AndonSage 14:06, 27 March 2021 (EDT)

And Eternity

Just added a jacket design credit to And Eternity Scifibones 16:10, 10 April 2021 (EDT)

OK :) AndonSage 15:20, 11 April 2021 (EDT)

Harpy Thyme

I'm at it again. This time I'm consolidating the different titles used for the Xanth map. Tor's first 6 hc's after taking over the series, are Xanth 16-21. They are very similar. You are PV for Harpy Thyme. I have already done 16,19,20,and 21 as I am the only PV. Here is the map Xanth (map). Here is one of the four I have done Yon Ill Wind. I propose the following changes to Harpy Thyme, but, only if you agree. Or if you have better ideas.

  • Merge ep "Harpy Thyme" into fep "Xanth (map)" and add a note saying it is also used for the back endpaper as well. Remember ep is extra page not endpaper
  • I would suggest eliminating [7] "Map of Xanth (Harpy Thyme)" and adding a note. We can merge it with the other, but, we would have to add [2] to name or variant it. I think the note is simpler
  • Add jacket design credit
  • I would like to add the note "Per Locus1, this is the first U.S.A. edition" I think the edition statement by Tor is misleading. I understand if you don't like this

Let me know what you think. John Scifibones 15:50, 21 April 2021 (EDT)

I'm ok with all that. AndonSage 16:25, 26 April 2021 (EDT)

Prince of the Blood & The King's Buccaneer

I added a couple design credits and ext ID's to to Prince of the Blood & The King's Buccaneer. John Scifibones 16:52, 11 June 2021 (EDT)

Serpentwar Saga

Added design credits ext ID's to some of the books in the Serpentwar Saga. Hope you don't mind John Scifibones 11:13, 12 June 2021 (EDT)

That's fine :) AndonSage 02:43, 13 June 2021 (EDT)
Same with The Riftwar Legacy. I'm adding design credits as I verify my collection because one of the moderators requested I do so. They are talking about adding a design credit can. Having this note will facilitate populating that field. Do you want me to continue to notify you of these minor additions? John Scifibones 10:12, 13 June 2021 (EDT)
No, you don't need to keep notifying me. Thanks for doing this work! AndonSage 14:54, 13 June 2021 (EDT)

Rage of a Demon King

Can you please look at your copy of Rage of a Demon King and see if there is a map on the endpapers? I have a first edition and there isn't one in mine. If it's not there, can I remove it from the pub? Phil 06:30, 17 December 2021 (EST)

There is no map on the endpapers, go ahead and remove it. Mine is also a first edition, perhaps it was added in later editions? AndonSage 17:29, 17 December 2021 (EST)

Krondor: The Betrayal

While preparing to PV Krondor: The Betrayal, I noticed that the "Author's Afterword" on page 374 is missing. Any problem with my adding it? Phil 06:59, 17 December 2021 (EST)

Go ahead and add it, it's in my edition. AndonSage 17:32, 17 December 2021 (EST)

1634: The Baltic War

When preparing to PV 1634: The Baltic War and add a link to the CD-ROM pub, I noticed that the "Descendants of Henry Short" interiorart title on page xiii is missing. Any objection to me adding it? Phil 07:19, 18 December 2021 (EST)

No problem, go ahead. AndonSage 13:56, 19 December 2021 (EST)

Mother Speaks

Hi there. Another editor pointed out that the art credits of Mother Speaks that you've verified may be uncertain - see here: Could you double check your copy, and add a statement like "art credited to xxx in the book on the copyright page", or whatever the case may be? Thanks! MagicUnk 16:14, 13 January 2022 (EST)

I already listed what the copyright page says, "Cover and Interior Illustrations: Robert Nelson." The page numbers aren't listed on the copyright page, though. I added those. Anyway, that's where the credit for the cover comes from. There is no signature on the cover that I can find. I don't have an issue with the note you added, though. AndonSage 15:21, 16 January 2022 (EST)
Thanks for the confirmation. I've added 'stated on copyright page' to the notes to be fully unambiguous. Regards, MagicUnk 03:08, 17 January 2022 (EST)
Ok, sounds good :) AndonSage 15:06, 17 January 2022 (EST)

Fateful Lightning cover - non /P/isbn cover

I've just attached a cover to [6] which might match the printing you've PVed. --GlennMcG 01:24, 10 February 2022 (EST)

Yes, that's the cover for the fourth printing that I have. AndonSage 15:17, 10 February 2022 (EST)

To the Resurrection Station

For To the Resurrection Station, I added the notes "First Avon Printing: October 1986" and "First printing per printer's key: K-R 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1" Phil 08:07, 16 February 2022 (EST)

That's fine, I checked my edition and those statements are in it. Thanks :) AndonSage 13:22, 16 February 2022 (EST)

Steven Brust / Teckla

I am posting this to AndonSage and MLB. You are the only two active PVs of Teckla.
I will PV this and will correct the spelling of "Wilding" to "Windling".
The pub record states that the cover art is signed but I cannot see the signature. I am aware that Hickman sometimes signs his art with a glyph, as per this publication: Destination: Universe! but I cannot see that on the cover of Teckla either. Can someone put me out of my misery and point me at the signature? Teallach 12:46, 17 February 2022 (EST)

Agree on Windling. I have no idea about a signature or glyph on the cover. That sentence doesn't read like something I wrote, as when I add a statement from a copyright page, I only state that. I don't see a signature or glyph on the front cover. Maybe MLB knows. AndonSage 23:51, 17 February 2022 (EST)

The Dolphins of Pern

Hello. Re this publication. I've come across a quandry. A note on the 8th paperback printing states "'Map courtesy of Christine Levis' on copyright page. Signature "Christina Levis" at bottom right map.". I have in my hand the 1994 Bantam Books (UK) hardback edition. The map in my edition is indeed titled Ninth Pass Pern but there is no signature anywhere on the map and Christine Levis' name appears nowhere in my publication. Caption for my map has "© 1987 Niels Erickson. Oceanography information by P. Burr Loomis. Ocean current maps by Marilyn Alm" it's a gridded map with numbers horizontally 19 top & bottom left; 17 top & bottom right; and numbers vertically left/right 80 at top and bottom. Can you check your copy to see if the same map or a different one. I've submitted my edits. --Mavmaramis (talk) 15:25, 5 September 2023 (EDT)

There is none of that information in your UK version in the US version that I have. The map info is as I have stated. AndonSage (talk) 11:54, 6 September 2023 (EDT)