User talk:Blackhawk

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Hello, Blackhawk, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! --MartyD 10:36, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Ebook formats and cover image links

Hi, and welcome. I accepted your submissions and made a couple of very minor changes I wanted you to be aware of:

  • For ebooks, our practice is to record the specific format(s) in the notes. So I added a note about Kindle, Nook to each.

As I said, both very minor. I wish all initial contributions were as clean! Again, welcome, and thank you for contributing. --MartyD 10:59, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

MartyD - Thanks for cleaning up my submissions. I saw that you had changed the image source, which is fine by me. I could not figure out how to get a link to the cover on Amazon. I also added more publications before checking my messages so I missed your point about adding the formats in notes. Sorry about that. I'll try to do better in the future.

Blackhawk 19:13, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Not a problem. For the Amazon images, you'll find some help under the Amazon bullet here: ISFDB:Image_linking_permissions#List_of_sites_granting_permission. They're a little tricky at first, but they get easier with repetition. --MartyD 23:44, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
I read that and it explains how to change the Amazon link to remove formatting but it does not explain how to get the URL for the image at Amazon in the first place. That used to be easy, but since they introduced the preview function, when I click on the cover of a book I don't get the cover, I get a popup window with the book sample. There is no image URL to copy. --Blackhawk 03:52, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
If you're using Windows, in Internet Explorer, right-click on the image and pick "Properties...", and you will see the full file path listed. Firefox has a handy right-click + "Copy Image Location". I imagine other browsers will give you something similar on the right-click. I don't know about platforms. --MartyD 11:04, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
I'm catching up. Yes, that worked for me. Thanks. I used it to add the Amazon link to the cover of a book I added this week.Blackhawk 21:20, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Differing author credits, differing titles, and "variants"

It looks like you have moved on to "advanced topics" with two of your submissions. :-) Welcome to the world of canonical names/titles and variants. Don't let the size of this note scare you; it's all pretty simple.

A bit of background: All ISFDB records use only one unique title text and one unique author name per author involved. We never try to record two variations of the title or an author credit within a single record. So, for example, we would not have a title like "Operation Space (Operation Springboard)" or an author like "Michael Sherman (Robert W. Lowndes)". Also, publications record titles in two ways: One is the text on the publication itself (the "Title: ") in the form, the other is a link to a "title" record that is shared by all publications having the same title credit ("Add Publication to This Title" hooks a new publication up to the selected title record; "Add New Publication" creates one implicitly, copying the publication's title text). Except for possible inclusion/omission of a subtitle or series super-title, the publication's title text and author credit(s) should match the associated title record's text and credit(s) exactly.

We start by recording exactly what the publication uses. So, for example, we'd make an Operation Space or record an author as "Robert W. Lowndes". Author names are quite straightforward: If an author is more widely known by some other name or by some other variation of the same name, we make the name we have a pseudonym of the more widely known name (also called the "canonical" name). So, for example, we'd make Robert W. Lowndes a pseudonym for Robert A. W. Lowndes if it were not already set up that way. The same goes for true pseudonyms, such as Michael Sherman -> Robert A. W. Lowndes.

To handle the fact that the work was published under such a pseudonym, or was published under a different title, we make a "variant" title -- one of the two titles is a variant of the other (the "parent", also called "canonical", title). A variant title differs from its parent in either title text or author credit or both but represents the same underlying work. So, for example Operation Space is set up as a variant of Operation Springboard, and Intervention as by Michael Sherman is set up as a variant of Intervention by Robert A. W. Lowndes. The only trick in this is we don't chain variants -- each variation gets a direct relationship to the canonical record, even if both title text and author credit(s) differ.

The software then takes care of all of the "as by" and "only as by" stuff. See, for example, how "Intervention" appears in SF Quarterly, where it was credited to Michael Sherman. And if you go to the Robert A. W. Lowndes page and look for "Intervention", you'll see how the appearance is credited. --MartyD 15:27, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

With that as background:

Operation Springboard

Your proposed addition of the P.T.I Book Depot edition of Operation Springboard should have been given the title "Operation Space" (if I read your note correctly) and have been added to the Operation Space title record. You're note is pretty clear, so I will accept the submission and fix it up to be that way. If that's wrong, let me know and I'll put it back to the way you had it. --MartyD 15:27, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Here's the fixed-up Operation Space, and here's how the Operation Springboard summary looks. --MartyD 15:31, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
I though I was adding it as "Operation Space". I was on the existing "Operation Space" page when I clicked the "add publication" link. The system automatically put in the title, if I remember correctly, so I assumed that was what it was supposed to be. You interpreted it all correctly. Thanks again. --Blackhawk 03:40, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Science Fiction by Robert W. Lowndes

This one's a tiny bit tricky. In any multi-work publication, we first look for the title and author credit on each story's interior title page. If something is missing there, we fall back on the Table of Contents, then on publication-level credits, and as a final resort, on the publishing history credits. Here, Amazon Look Inside shows me there is not author credit on the interior title pages or in the TOC, so we would use the "Robert W. Lowndes" credit from the collection itself. The parenthetical "only as by" information from the publishing history will not be represented directly. We could use this as a clue to go make sure we have recorded those appearances or to help us set up any missing pseudonyms and/or variant relationships that might be missing.

So I am going to accept this submission, fix up the author credits to remove the parenthetical info, and then make each a variant to the same title w/"Robert A. W. Lowndes" -- the canonical name -- as author. From the Robert A. W. Lowndes summary or each canonical title's summary page, we'll be able to see all of the variations of title and author under which the work was published.

I hope this makes sense and you're not put off by the long explanation. It works out pretty well overall. Please ask if you don't understand something. Thanks. --MartyD 15:27, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Here's the fixed-up Science Fiction by Robert W. Lowndes. I set up all of the variants. I noticed the "Foreward" in the Look Inside and added it. One other thing I forgot to mention: for (single-author) collections, we record the works' author as the author, not the editor. The editor credit, if known, has to end up relegated to the notes because we don't have another place for it. We do record the editor, if credited, for (multi-author) anthologies. So I made that change, too. See what you think. --MartyD 16:04, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I had some trouble with that one since Lowndes wrote under so many different names. I appreciate you sorting it out. If I add another collection (doubtful) I'll come back and read this again. I'm not sure I've got it right now.
Also, I clicked on the link for "Dan Thompson" and see that it goes to a page on the site. I am sure that is a different Dan Thompson than me since I did not write the two short stories listed. I have had some short fiction published but I doubt that any of it is in this database since it was all small press stuff.
We do have a lot of small press stuff in this database, but different people with the same names is a situation we run into now and then. Take a look at Help:How_to_separate_two_authors_with_the_same_name and give it a try. We can always go with "(I)", "(II)", etc., but you can see what you think is appropriate. Once the names are separated, there will be a page you can update further with website links, etc. We can also try to find out more information about the other Dan Thompson and do the same for him.
If everything except those two pieces of short fiction is yours, the easiest thing to do will be to re-credit those(e.g., to Dan Thompson (II)) first. Once those are accepted, then we can go to Dan Thompson, which now should show only your stuff, and then Edit Author Data and change the name to include whatever disambiguating information is appropriate -- this will change the credits everywhere, without having to go edit each one. This is moderated, so you can try it without doing harm. If you'd prefer I did it, just tell me what info you think we should use, and I'll take care of it. Thanks. --MartyD 11:29, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
Marty, I agree that it would be good to make a new "Dan Thompson (II)" and move his two stories. If you can do that I'd appreciate it. I'll go ahead and add more of my info to the current "Dan Thompson." Sorry about being slow to respond to your generous offer. I was busy getting ready for and attending Dragon*Con.Blackhawk 14:51, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
Finally, I just tried to upload the cover image for the PTI edition of "Operation Space" and I keep getting error messages. I'll see if I can find the problem but I was wondering if there is another way? --Blackhawk 03:47, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
Never mind about my comment about uploading the cover. I wasn't compressing it enough. --Blackhawk 04:00, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Linking uploaded cover images to the publication record.

Thanks for uploading this cover image to the ISFDB wiki. The next step is to link the image to the publication record of the book. As the instructions (step 6) explain:

Once the file has been uploaded, the image's wiki page will appear. In order to get the URL (address) for the image you just uploaded, left click anywhere on the image and copy the URL from your browser's address window. (Or right click on the image and choose "Copy Image Location".) If you're adding a cover image to a pub record, this is the URL which you would enter into the pub record's "Image URL" field.

So once you have the image's URL, go back to the pub record (it's linked on the image's wiki page) and then click the "Edit This Pub" link under the Editing Tools menu. This opens up an edit page. Under the Publication Metadata section, there's a field labeled "Image URL:" Enter the URL of the image you uploaded into this field, and then click on the "Submit Data" button at the bottom of the page. Once the submission has been moderated the cover image will be linked to the publication record.

One other thing: I noticed that the cover credits the author as "John Ball Jr." If this is how he is credited on the book's title page, you'll need to update the record, and correcting the author credit field. (The ISFDB standard is to add a comma after the last name when there is a suffix, even if it's not present in the credit.) The title reference link will also have to be adjusted as it now links to the title credited to "John Ball". This is an advanced edit that I will handle once the record has been updated. Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 04:48, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Submission to update the record was accepted, but a period was added to the author's "Jr" per ISFDB standards. Thanks. Mhhutchins 03:00, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Altering titles appearing in verified publications

One semi-hidden aspect of modifying a title directly, such as you are proposing for Vulcan: Ice Ring (which I have on hold), is that it changes how the title appears everywhere it is used. In this case, it appears in the verified Astounding Science-Fiction, November 1942. Whenever we want to change something that is in a verified publication, our policy is to check with the verifier first. So I've dropped a note on Ron Kihara's talk page to ask him to double-check how it appears in the magazine. No need to do anything: I just wanted you to know why I have it on hold. Thanks. --MartyD 13:29, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

He confirmed, so I accepted the submission. Thanks for catching it. --MartyD 00:11, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
I'm working on a collection of Jameson's works and that is one of them, so I was looking at the actual magazine page. Glad to help. Blackhawk 13:19, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Author data

I accepted the submission to update the data for Dan Thompson, but had to change the canonical name field to "Thompson, Danny L." and add the country to the birthplace field as "Brownwood, Texas, USA". Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:52, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Blackhawk 13:17, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Southern Fried Sci-Fi...

I accepted your submission for Southern Fried Sci-Fi and Jambalaya Genres. I notice Amazon has a publication date of 30 August 2001. If there is no equally specific publication date on the copyright page, you can use that and mention the source of the information in the Note. Thanks. PeteYoung 06:19, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. That date sounds good. All the book has on the copyright page is 2001. Blackhawk 13:17, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Magazine entry standards

I've accepted the submission to add this record to the database, but have made changes based on ISFDB entry standards for magazines. These are explained in the help links in the Welcome section at the top of this talk page.

  • The title field must include the date and/or issue number in order to distinguish it from other issues of the periodical. There was nothing in your submission to indicate the issue number or the date (except for the year in the date field), so I did some research and found the proper data in the Miller/Contento magazine index. I changed the title field from "Fantastic Collectibles Magazine" to "Fantastic Collectibles Magazine, #130 January 1996".
  • The date field should include the month of publication (and day if known). I changed it from "1996-00-00" to "1996-01-00" based on Miller/Contento.
  • The page count field of magazines must include the covers in the count, even if they are not included in the publication's pagination. (This is different from page counts of books.) According to Miller/Contento, this issue was 48 pages long. The page count of a quarto publication should be a multiple of four, so this seems to be right. If it doesn't include the covers, please update the record.
  • Content titles: if a content is a generic title ("Editorial") or a column title (in this case "Random Thoughts"), its title should be disambiguated by adding the title of the publication parenthetically. So "Random Thoughts" would be "Random Thoughts (Fantastic Collectibles Magazine, #130 January 1996)" in case the same title is used in other issues of this periodical and credited to the same author. This prevents another editor from coming behind you and merging identically named records. I didn't change this record, just in case this is not a regular column by Bowman. If you have other issues and determine it's a regular column, please update the title to the one I give here.
  • Works which are identically titled in the same issue like "The Borderline" must be disambiguated for the same reason. If the works on pages 5, 9, and 25 are different, add a bracketed number to those on pages 9 and 25, i.e. leave the title on 5 as is, but change the one on 9 to "The Borderline [2]", and the one on page 25 to "The Borderline [3]". I haven't done this, in the rare case the works are identical. If not, please update the record to add the disambiguation. (Remember to use brackets, not parentheses.)
  • One last question: are specific titles by Merritt reviewed in the essay title "Belated Reviews: A. Merritt". If so, add them in the REVIEWS section in a publication update. The REVIEWS section is below the CONTENTS section, and should include the title of the work being reviewed, the author of the work being reviewed, the author of the review, and the publication date of the review (not the publication date of the reviewed work). If you leave the date field blank, it automatically defaults to the date of the publication, which is the correct date 99% of the time.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask here. Click on the "[edit]" link, a dialogue box will open, start your post with a colon (":") to indent it from this message, type your message, end it with four tildes (or click on the signature icon at the top of the edit box), and click "Save page". Thanks. Mhhutchins 17:14, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for all the feedback. I have made the corrections indicated. I don't have access to #130 at the moment and don't remember if the A. Merritt review included separate titles. I'll check when I can. Blackhawk 19:38, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Something I forgot to ask, "The Borderline" is actually a series of single panel cartoons. I typed them as interior art because there wasn't anything on the drop down list for cartoons. Is there some way of making the type closer to cartoon or is interior art as close as we can get? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blackhawk (talkcontribs) .
If they are captioned cartoons they should be titled like this one. If it's a continuing series and each one is numbered, then that should be part of the title. Mhhutchins 21:54, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Note field vs. Note to Moderator field

The "Note" field should include information about the publication which can not be entered into any of the other data fields, to provide a source for non-primary-verified data, or to explain the data in a field. So I moved the source for the publication date which you gave in the "Note to Moderator" field into the Note field of this record. Otherwise it would not be visible to a database user, and it would be assumed that the date is actually stated in the publication (which I presume isn't.)

The "Note to Moderator" field should be used to provide additional information about the submission (not about the publication) to help in the moderator's decision to accept the submission. This note is seen only by the moderator handling the submission and does not become a visible part of the database record. For example, it can be used to inform the moderator that this submission is the first of several steps in updating a record. You can use this field to inform the moderator that you're working from a book-in-hand which will speed up the acceptance of the submission. Do not enter any vital bibliographic information which you believe adds value to the record. This includes the source of the data used to update or create the record. That data should be recorded in the "Note" field. Also, do not ask questions of the moderator in this field. You will get a faster response at the ISFDB:Help desk, and by asking there, you may avoid needless effort and unnecessary submissions. Thanks. Mhhutchins 17:24, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I misunderstood your original suggestion about including the date in the notes. I thought you wanted it for clarification for the moderator. Blackhawk 19:35, 5 September 2013 (UTC)


Webzines published online using standard HTML mark-up are not eligible for inclusion in the database. (There are rare exceptions.) Only those which are downloadable and readable on ebook readers in PDF, Mobi, ePUb and other various ebook formats are eligible. Did the story you published in the online magazine Abandoned Towers appear in a print edition? If so, please cancel the submission for the webzine publication and create a new one. Please use the ISFDB standards I've described above for magazine entries. Thanks. Mhhutchins 17:32, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I cancelled it. They did offer print editions but my story was not included in those. So, is there any way to list a story that was published in a webzine without adding the webzine? Blackhawk 19:32, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
There's a backdoor way of creating a title record without a pub, but that would violate the spirit of the site's policy about online only publications ineligibility. At the moment, the only way is to list them on the author's bibliographic comments page. Click on the link "Bibliographic Comments: Author:Dan Thompson" which creates a wiki page that be used to list ineligible publications. The BIO wiki page is for biographical data and the AUTHOR wiki page is for bibliographical data. Mhhutchins 21:14, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. It's just one story but I'll add it to the Bibliographic Comments. I don't have anything there otherwise. Blackhawk 21:23, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

More issues of Fantastic Collectibles

I've accepted the submissions for this issue and this issue. They have the same problems as I describe in the previous post about magazine entry standards. With a few more problems:

  • Works of nonfiction contained in a larger work should be typed as ESSAY, and not NONFICTION. The last type is reserved for nonfiction book-length works or a container of shorter nonfiction works.
  • If a review gives an informal author credit to the work being reviewed, you should change the credit to the author's canonical name. "Lew Shiner" should be changed to "Lewis Shiner" and "Jack Chalker" should be "Jack L. Chalker" .
  • An issue number of a magazine is not the same thing as the publication series number. You'll need to remove it from the records and add it to the title field (as explained in the previous post about magazine titles.)
  • I see in this issue that "Random Thoughts" is a regular column of this periodical, so its title should be disambiguated (see above).
  • On page 18 of this issue there is a review by Dan Zweig of a work by Andre Norton titled "Andre Norton: A Review of Her Early Works". I doubt that Andre Norton wrote such a work. It appears to be an ESSAY by Dan Zweig titled "Andre Norton: A Review of Her Early Works". If so, a new content record of ESSAY type should be added to the publication, the REVIEW record will have to be removed from the publication, and deleted from the database. This is going to take several submissions. I can do this for you, if my assumption of its nature is correct. Let me know.

I'll ask you to update these two records, using the information that I've provided here and in the other post ("Magazine entry standard"). Thanks.

Thanks for all the feedback. I have made the corrections indicated. I'm pretty sure I got them all. Blackhawk 19:27, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Updates to records accepted, and they were very good. Thanks for jumping on these issues so quickly. Mhhutchins 21:28, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

The Martian Wave

I've just accepted your new titles The Martian Wave 2010 and The Martian Wave 2011, however where a title of an essay is generic to many publications, such as "Introduction", "Afterword", etc., it's necessary to always disambiguate such entries by adding the title of the publication afterwards, in parentheses. To save you time I've done the two quick edits, and the Introductions for each are now "Introduction (The Martian Wave 2010)" and "Introduction (The Martian Wave 2011)". Thanks. PeteYoung 18:06, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I was told that and did it on a previous submission but forgot on these. Sorry, and thanks for fixing them. Blackhawk 18:52, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Blind Man's Buff and Amazon image links

Hi. I accepted your submission of Blind Man's Buff but had to fix the cover image link, which was truncated. In doing that, I noticed in the Look Inside that the artist's name is spelled there "Timmins", not "Timmons", so I changed the record to match. If that's not right, let me know, and I will put it back. Thanks. --MartyD 03:04, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

There was a similar problem with the image link for Bullard. When working with the Amazon image links, you want to delete everything from the first period after the last slash up to the last period. So if the link looks like:,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA278_PIkin4,BottomRight,-64,22_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
You should delete everything I've highlighted in bold/red to get:
That removes all of the overlays, frames, and special sizing Amazon applies to the base cover image. --MartyD 03:13, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Marty, thanks for fixing the links. I didn't see all that stuff you are describing which is probably why the links were truncated. I'll try to make sure I get the proper link next time. Blackhawk 05:01, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Okay, I checked the books I just entered (Blind Man's Buff and Bullard: Tales of the Patrol) and it looks like I did something wrong. The stories in the new collections were added to Malcolm Jameson's page as if they were new stories with a publication date of this year. What should have happened was that they would be added to the original story listing as a reprint. What did I do wrong and how do I fix it, please? Blackhawk 05:14, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
You did nothing wrong. When adding a new collection that reprints previously published stories, you have to merge the new title records with the existing ones. (If this had been a reprint of a previous publication, you could have avoided these merges by cloning the existing record.) Go to this How To page and click on the link "How to merge titles". (This "How To" page is one to bookmark, for secondary tasks that go beyond the creation of publication records.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 05:27, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Forgot to add: use this find duplicates method to merge titles. Mhhutchins 05:31, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. The "find duplicates" method was the easiest. So, I gather that means that whenever I add a new collection of stories by an author this merge process has to be performed after the addition has been approved by a moderator. There is no way to mark the stories as reprints as the book is entered? Blackhawk 18:05, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
No. It's a manual process. There's no way for duplicated titles to be automatically merged. But as I said above, it the collection (or anthology) is a reprint of a previously published collection (or anthology), it can be cloned from an existing record, which avoids having to merge the content records. Mhhutchins 18:46, 13 October 2013 (UTC)


Re this record. Be sure to add the currency in the price field. It's not done automatically since the database accepts publications from around the world in different currencies. I'm assuming this is US dollars so I updated the record. If it's another currency, please submit another update. Thanks. Mhhutchins 05:23, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

I had used the dollar sign when I first entered the price but the price was missing after the book was approved so I thought maybe that was the problem. Guess not. Blackhawk 18:07, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Anachron, Inc.

Re this publication: Titles should be entered using standard capitalization rules (given here under "case"). These rules apply regardless of how the title of the work is actually capitalized. I'll change the title of the pub, and of the "foreward", which I assume reflects a misspelling in the original publication of "foreword". Mhhutchins 18:50, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Blackhawk 21:04, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Southern Fried Sci-Fi

I changed the editor credit of this record to reflect that as shown on the "Look Inside" feature on Amazon. It shows the editor as "Scott Hancock" and not "Scott E. Hancock". Can you confirm that the two stories are also correctly credited? Also, I corrected the spelling of the foreword from "Foreward" to "Foreword". Mhhutchins 06:20, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

It's the same person. He decided to add his middle initial to this edition and I was trying to make it consistent. It is probably easier to change all to without the initial. I'll do that. And thanks for pointing out the misspelling of foreword. I seem to get that wrong a lot. I'll change it in the book. Blackhawk 17:47, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
The book is okay. I just mispelled it when typing the entry here.Blackhawk 17:49, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
I've made "Scott E. Hancock" as the canonical name (the author's preferred credit), but we still have to enter credits EXACTLY as they appear in the publication. With this in mind, please make any necessary changes to the records. They can always be varianted to the canonical name and be listed on a single page. Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:32, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
I'll ask him which he prefers and change the book to make it consistent. Then I'll look at the entries here to see how to make them acceptable.Blackhawk 22:38, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Foreward by Dan Thompson

I had to reject the submission to change the spelling of this title. It appears that it was misspelled in the publication, so ISFDB policy would require that it be entered as published. If the file of this ebook will be corrected, then the ISFDB record can be changed with a note that some copies contained the misspelled title. Mhhutchins 19:56, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

I did fix the books and posted corrected versions to the retailers. When the corrected versions are available, I'll resubmit the fix here with the note as you direct.Blackhawk 22:35, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

The Golden Ape

I'm holding a submission in which you credit two persons with the cover art : Roy Krenkel and Dan Thompson. Is it a true collaboration (one work created by two persons)? What is each artist's contribution to the cover? Thanks. Mhhutchins 07:06, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

I think it is. A cover by Roy Krenkel (that is in the public domain) was significantly modified to make it more closely match a scene from "The Golden Ape." if that doesn't meet your criteria, I'm fine with deleting Dan Thompson and listing only Krenkel.Blackhawk 07:44, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
I've accepted the submission. Please add a note to explain the cover art credit. Thanks. Mhhutchins 07:47, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I've done that. Blackhawk 08:18, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
I copied that note to the coverart record. Also, a not-at-all-apparent gotcha with coverart is that if you add two artists on a publication, you end up with two coverart records (one for each artist). I believe this default treatment came about because of Ace doubles, which usually had two "front" covers by different artists. Separate credits is represented in the summary and publication record with a comma: "Roy Krenkel, Jr., Dan Thompson" (and on the artists' pages, you'll see no mention of the other artist). To get a collaboration record, you need to start out by crediting just one of the artists. Once that is accepted, then go find the coverart record and add the collaborator(s). Collaboration is represented in the summary and publication record with an and: "Roy Krenkel, Jr. and Dan Thompson" (and on the artists' pages, you'll then see "with xxx"). I've fixed up the records involved here to be a collaboration. --MartyD 12:28, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing it. It sounds very complicated but I will try to remember (and refer back here) should that situation ever arise again. I have motivation now to see that it doesn't. Blackhawk 03:48, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Kat with a K

Is this ebook more than 40,000 words thus qualifying as a NOVEL? Also, what is the ebook format? Unless it's a PDF, most ebooks don't have pagination. Is the 108 page count based on a user preference or the file itself? Mhhutchins

It is about 31K words but it is a children's book intended for 8-12 year olds. I would not think the 40K standard for adult novels would apply. The book is available in Kindle format and EPUB (from Nook and Kobo). The page count is based on what Amazon shows on their webpage for the book. I have no idea how they arrive at that number. I have used Amazon's page numbers for quite a few ebooks and no one has questioned them before so I assumed it was acceptable. Blackhawk 07:19, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
If you look closer at the Amazon listings for ebooks, you'll see they state "Print Length" not "Page Count". Feel free to record that number in the Note field of ebooks in Kindle (MOBI) or Nook (EPUB) formats, but only use the Page Count field to record the page counts for print books and pdf-formatted ebooks.
I don't think we differentiate between children's books and adults when we designate a work as novel, novella, etc. If you believe there should be a distinction, please start on discussion on the page for Rules_and_standards_discussions. In the meantime, I'll convert this to a CHAPTERBOOK, and add a content record for the SHORTFICTION with novella length. Thanks. Mhhutchins 16:51, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
The difference between print length and page count is not significant to me but I won't use it anymore. I don't think classifying Kat as a "chapterbook" is a fair description but I doubt there are many children's books in the isfdb so it probably doesn't matter. Blackhawk 01:05, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
CHAPTERBOOK is a unique ISFDB designation without regard to the publication's intended readership. For a definition and description see the sub-category for CHAPTERBOOK here. Actually there are far more children's books in the database than you might think. (Too many as far as I'm concerned, but we try to be inclusive of all speculative fiction, regardless of the work's intended audience.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 02:32, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
I have a negative opinion of "chapterbooks" since it is a category I see used to describe a lot of public domain short works published as if they were full length books. They aren't usually described as chapterbooks on Amazon or B&N but that's how they are categorized here. I consider most of them deceptive since there is no attempt to describe them as short works and sometimes the descriptions are actually written with the obvious intent of misleading a purchaser into thinking they are getting a novel length work. If you are familiar with the work, then it is easy to recognize it for what it is, but if you are not then you could easily be fooled. So, having "Kat" classed as such irks a bit, since it is a completely new work and is the appropriate length to be considered a novel for its intended audience (IMO). You are correct that I would not have guessed that there are a lot of children's books in the database. This is my first time publishing a children's book so I don't have anything on which to base the idea that 30K is an appropriate length for a children's book to be a novel except my own feeling, at this point. I'll have to do some research before I consider starting a discussion about changing the rules and standards. Blackhawk 04:27, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
I will reject your submission to change this into a novel as per the above discussion. Why did you re-submit this? Please take a look at the definition and description referred to above. I changed the author's name as intended. Stonecreek 01:05, 2 November 2018 (EDT)
In addition, Forever Kat does also appear to be a CHAPBOOK. A rough estimate puts the length of the text well below 35,000 words. Do you have an alternate word count? Stonecreek 01:12, 2 November 2018 (EDT)
It seems not: I'll transform the publication and the associated title. Stonecreek 09:15, 5 November 2018 (EST)

The Other Side of the Sun

Is there a reason why you created two publication records for the ebook edition of this title? Perhaps they are two different editions? At the moment, they're identical. Mhhutchins 18:29, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

You also made duplicate submissions for an ebook edition of this title. I caught it and cancelled one of the submissions. Do not make duplicate submissions if you see that you've made an error in the entry. Wait until it has been accepted and then update the record. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:32, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

There was a typo on the price. I should have waited for it to be approved and then corrected, but I did it too fast before that occurred to me. Blackhawk 19:00, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Strange Voyages

The synopsis of each story in this title record for the collection would be better separated and added to the title records of the individual stories. Mhhutchins 18:36, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I've made the change. Blackhawk 19:01, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Thunderchild ISBNs

Hello, the following 2015 Thuderchild publications (ISBN 1517237203, 151725244X, 1517258502, 1517272017, 1517241448) appear on our cleanup report because they seem to have only an ISBN-10. Can you confirm that there is no ISBN-13 on these books? Thanks. Hauck 12:02, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't notice this post and made the changes based on the Amazon Look Inside. See the message below. Mhhutchins|talk 19:26, 21 September 2015 (UTC)


If both ISBN-10 and ISBN-13 are stated in a publication, please enter the ISBN-13. The system automatically determines and then displays the ISBN-10. All books published after January 2007 should have an ISBN-13. If you are doing a primary verification of a post-2006 publication which doesn't have an ISBN-13, please state that in the publication record's Note field. I have changed the five recent records of books published by Thunderchild based on the ISBN-13 as shown in the Amazon Look Inside. Thanks. Mhhutchins|talk 19:25, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

I didn't know there was a preference. I'll use the ISBN-13 in the future.Blackhawk 05:17, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Only use the ISBN-13, if stated, in books published after January 2007. Mhhutchins|talk 06:10, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Steps to the Stars

Hi, I've added the ISBN to your verified copy of Steps to the Stars.--Dirk P Broer 19:55, 28 August 2017 (EDT)

Thanks.Blackhawk 22:35, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

The Nemesis of Evil

The Nemesis of Evil has an ASIN at amazon, so I've added it. Susan O'Fearna 16:34, 20 August 2020 (EDT)