Page numbers for artwork
The reason that Help has two options for assigning the page number for artwork is the result of a compromise instituted by myself when no consensus could be reached. It seems that the current editors have or are starting to use the first page number where artwork occurs (and in some cases listing all artwork). I would prefer it if we had one standard. Using the page where the first piece of art occurs makes the most sense to me because editors also have the option to add all artwork. This will mean one less edit when somebody does so.--swfritter 23:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
- I use the first page number of the story and a single record for artwork. In magazines such as Interzone or Realms of Fantasy the title page is often a 2-pages artwork with not much text, and sometimes fragments of art are reprinted on consecutive pages, so I treat them as an 'illustrated story' (I think there was even a feature request to display 'illustrated by' in content listings). Also, when editing from online sources, we often have only information 'illustrated by' without information on individual artworks. On the other hand, RoF's Gallery (which includes reprints of artworks) would be better with individual works listed (like 'Cover of: Title (year)', 'Page from:...'). Mind that I have only recent IZ, F&SF and a few RoF and sometimes I work on 'Writers of the Future' which have illustrated stories. --Roglo 07:39, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
- I have been entereing issues of Whispers recently. These tend to contian a lot of art, much of it full-page. I mostly enter this on the page or pages where it actually occurs. An interestign detail, several issues contain a "folio" -- several successive pages of full-page art, not illustrating any story in the magazine, but usually connected with the work of the "featured" or "honored" author, and with an overall title. So far I havbe been making only one entry for each folio if the entire folio is by a singel artist, and separate entries plus an overall entry when different pages are by different artists.
- Also, several full-page interior artwors are captioned as illustrations for named works which are NOT in the magazine, generally these are illos for a well-known or recent novel or story by the issue's "featured" author. I have been going into the art record and addign a note in some such cases. -DES Talk 21:04, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
- OK. It looks like we have some good reasons for the current flexibility although it should be kept in mind that somebody in the future can legitimately add more artwork entries even if a pub has been verified.--swfritter 18:12, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Perry Rhodan Workspace
Newbies do not get the privilege of creating a section for themselves here. I can write to you in this manner. I do not get the plus symbol next to the edit bar. This is high holy territory. LOL. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 19:29, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry just messed up 94-89. I need to create a title record saying Perry Rhodan #94: Action: Division 3 to add it to the Perry Rhodan series. Somehow how to do it escapes me. No more Perry till I resolve this. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 19:52, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- I think I found my error. When I changed the publications to magazine and entered the data, that put them in an error state but also made them a publication of the novel title. They themselves have no title in the db. The Starless Realm is a title but no longer in Perry Rhodan Series. I changed it to read Perry Rhodan #87: The Starless Realm and magazine. It is not cloneable because the db can not determine the title parent of this publication. If I change it back to novel will that create a new publication title or not. The Mystery of the Anti is worse. It is not in the search base, but it is a novel under the authors name K. H. Scheer and that connects to a title of that name with a publication that I entered as a magazine as Perry Rhodan #88: The Mystery of the Anti which also is not in the search database as a title. Horn:Green under title brings up the novel and the Perry Rhodan editor title. The editor title can not be used as a search term. PR 82 also is not searchable and neither is the novel title Atlan in Danger. PR102:Spoor of the Antis is searchable as an editor title. Spoor of the antis search gives three hits. PR111/112 also works to search both from the novel title and the editor title. PR#14: Venus in Danger is searchable to an editor title, but Venus in Danger is not even though it is a novel. I hope this is not confusing, but it is for me. --Dragoondelight 23:03, 19 July 2008 (UTC)Thanks, Harry.
A few points:
- The Wiki software doesn't display the "plus sign" on project pages by default, but you can always edit the last section of the page, add a section header and then add your own information further down. I have also added special "magic" code to the top of this page so the "plus sign" should appear for everybody from this point on.
Once I added an EDITOR record for Ackerman and LoBrutto to Perry Rhodan #87: The Starless Realm, everything went back to normal.
- The reason that Search couldn't find The Mystery of the Anti is that the last word was misspelled "Arti". The publication was also missing an EDITOR record, but everything looks OK now.
Perry Rhodan #96: Horn:Green looks OK, but the Serials by Stanton A. Coblentz and Kris/Lil Neville are a bit off. According to Help:Screen:NewPub:
- Serial installments of a work are always given the date of the magazine in which they appear even if the work has been published previously in book or serial form. [i.e. the date for The Sunken World should be 1976-06-00 and not 1928-00-00.] Include "(Part 1 of 3)" etc in the title of the work. [i.e. the titles should read The Sunken World (Part 1 of 12) and so on.]
A search on Atlan in Danger finds the EDITOR record for PR82. As far as I can tell, this issue is entered as a bunch of stories, so there is no separate Atlan in Danger NOVEL record. Spoor of the Antis looks OK, but I wonder if Coblentz' "Treasure of Red Ash Desert" has a leading "The", which is how it appeared in Weird Tales, March 1942. If the title is really different, then we'll want to link them via the Variant Title mechanism.
- Venus in Danger is now searchable, I assume it has been fixed since the original post.
- Ahasuerus 01:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- Need to update proper dates and (commentary)---Bob's decision for look.
- Treasure of the Red Ash Desert is as PR magazine used it.
- PR 82 needs short stories deleted and novel added----Bob PR 101 same as 82-------Bob These need Editor title & Series entry Secret Mission: Moluk -------No. 84 Enemy in the Dark -------No. 85 Blazing Sun ---------No. 86 needs editor title, editor title then series edits Pucky's Greatest Hour -----No. 81 Ernst Ellert Returns needs title on novel corrected---submitted No.83 No. 87 correct thanks The Mystery of the Anti missing David Gerrold entry & serial dates correct
- submitted No. 88.
- Powers Price-needs title corrections (both) serial dates changed----No89. submitted. Needs novel PR series removed and mag editor title series added. Unleashed Powers-Needs editor title added, editor title needs PR series & novel needs series data removed---PR90 Friend to Mankind--Needs novel title cleaned up & serials date changed-submitted Needs authors changed to editors and may need editor title.--PR91 The Target Star--needs novel title corrected & serials date corrected-submitted needs authors changed to editor and may need editor title & series changes. ---PR92 Vagabond of Space--needs novel title corrected & serials date corrected-submitted needs editor title & series corrected from novel to editor title--PR93 Action: Division 3--needs editor title & series changes from novel to editor title-PR94. The Plasma Monster-needs serials changed and editorial added--submittied Needs editor title & series corrected form novel to editor title. Just noticed #symbol missing from mag title.--PR95 Phantom Fleet Put # on PR97 anc corrected serial date==submitted PR97. Note Perry Rhodan: In the Center of the Galaxy is the unnumbered actual finish of the Ace printing. It technically would be between 118 Ace and 119 Master Publications.
- Observation using the previous data and changing it to magazine created a problem very hard for a new 'editor' to address. Would it be easier to enter new publication and then merge? Of course I do not know how to merge. I was of the opinion that editorial would have a title and editor. The ones I entered I did not include the box blurb 'Stardust editorial'. I also ignored the short commentary used to introduce it. Especially when it was entitled as a copyrighted piece. I ignored things that were promotions and such as advertisements. The Perryscopes I have done have no signature or signed responses. I saw a 'blurb box' with SJA and an address to send letters to. I did not consider that a signature. I worked from back to front, this sometimes did not make it obvious that a serial format was being used. I also am not sure that they were enumerated properly. My proposal is to get the data in and then physically count the pt 1 of how many and use that to correct each entry. I ignored prologues and forwards as they were not signed, except for maybe one with Khrest (a character). I could not tell if they were extensions of the German script or not. I can not understand the 'Scientifilm' entries for the most part. Should the German title of the novel be noted at a later date to relate it to the German editions. If so I have a list, but while it is sequential the Ace printings were not. So far the British (Orbit) editions should be at least 1-39. I sent for one to make a physical comparison for differences.
- May I enter #30, 36-40, 61-70 as they would be new magazine and would be easier to get into the series.
- Thanks to everyone, especially Ahasuerus for the forebearance. Sorry for the headaches, just writing this gave me one. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 23:19, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
- Enter away on the mags listed above. I am on the road (Denver) and will address your other questions as I can this week.
- Also, for magazines, we count every page including the front and back covers and the result is an even number. Most of the earlier PRs have page counts of 196, 180, or 164, some of yours have odd numbers like 207. Also the Ace Books have either a 020-xxxxx (for the very early editions), a 441-xxxxx number, the SBN (441-xxxxxx) or an ISBN. The numbers you are entering look like they would be right if they had the "441-" in front of them. Please recheck the numbers and page counts. I printed out a copy of the "New Magazine" help page and studied it a great deal and still had to learn a lot from my mistakes and the help of other editiors and moderators. Almost 2 years and 4000 edits later, I still use it and I am still being helped. Keep up the data entry and we will clean up after we get the series populated. It will get easier eventually (I hope!). Thx, rbh (Bob) 03:00, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
- Also, on your PR111/PR112 your content entries show a "Editor" type. We do not use that anymore so I suspect you mean "essay". I will approve and then you can change it. Thx, rbh (Bob) 03:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
- Total count for pages for magazines. I counted the numbered pages only. Will change from now on. You want the two part number, no problem.
No editor only essay. Good enough. Will input. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 11:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
• Novels in the magazine: Please see the following: "Magazines: Serial installments of a work are always given the date of the magazine in which they appear even if the work has been published previously in book or serial form. Novel length works (40,000+ words) printed as a single installment in a magazine are treated as serials and given the date of the issue in which they appear; the Title Type is "Serial" and the text "(Complete Novel)", preceded by a space, is appended to the title." (Note that this is not in the Help Pages)
- This means that we should enter the novel parts as serials instead of novels. Please continue entering new PRs and content and I will work on correcting our previous entries. Several of the pubs only have the top level data entered so you should also enter the contents for them as well. I am hopeful that between us, we will actually get this magazine (for the initial US issues) in shape before I get so old I can't see the keyboard :-). Thx, rbh (Bob) 12:18, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
- If I understand correctly, you mean the main novel needs (complete novel). That the novels such as 'New Lensman' become serials and need current date. I was told that recently. There are some problems though. I am not sure that the magazine is always as sequential in it's enumeration of the serials as it should be. Do you want (Star Editoral), (Shock Short), (Cosmos) (Scientifilm) that way. Note I seperated the Cosmos: title of article into an entry of title by author and put (Cosmos) after, since the actual article is authored. I am in the 60's now, but I think they did not give proper copyright credit to some works, short stories especially, as they did in later ones. I hope this ://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?AUTHENTIC81951 is what you mean. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 14:32, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
- Pretty much. Some of their serials may be numbered incorrectly and we will fix those later. Go to PR#10 to see an example. Thx, rbh (Bob) 02:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
- Perry Rhodan 119-136 are essentially the same length as Perry Rhodan 1-118. 119 on, are in digest format with double column and smaller print. Hence the paradigm of page numbers being a real good indicator of size is challenged. Personally, I have always felt the stories are more novella size than novel size, but I think you have an all or nothing situation.
I also have the personal inclination to think that Perry Rhodan should be listed as Perry Rhodan issue number without the novel/novella title. It is like listing the New York Times evening editon September 11, 2001 and adding the Twin Towers attack issue. The primary value of title inclusion is to promote sales and now to locate the lead story. A second thought, without the novel/novella title it would be very hard to match up with the German issues. I just checked six German copies and they run 39 to 42 pages, no other contents, of double column print in a slighter larger digest format. Further thought is that these stories equal length with many of the old Ace double stories of 90 odd to 110 pages. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 11:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
- PR 64,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,83,84,85,86 + 89-95 need editor title and the series switches. I like the look of the 60's after you cleaned them up. My PR #66 is missing 31 pages, awaiting replacement. I have variant issues in some of the earlier editions, do you want them entered? Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 12:38, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
- Yes. Thx, rbh (Bob) 21:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Astounding/Analog submissions - Probability Zero
I am pretty much leaving submissions for this mag up to the moderators who have done the most work in this area. I notice there are a number of tpi submissions which append "Probability Zero" before the title. Since these titles are in a series, that may not be absolutely necessary and I am not sure what has been intended for this particular series in the past.--swfritter 18:48, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
- I also have not been approving these submissions, for lack of magazine expertise, adn unwillingness to step on the toes of those activly involved in the project. I would note that at least a few of the "Probability Zero" items are later reprined in colectiosn or anthologies, and the ones I recall seeing have included "Probability Zero" in the title when so reprinted. This may be a reson to include the feature title in each entry, but perhaps it is not a good enough reason, as most of these do not seem to get reprinted. -DES Talk 15:49, 7 August 2008 (UTC)