User talk:AlainLeBris

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Welcome!

Hello, AlainLeBris, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Stonecreek 09:13, 20 February 2021 (EST)

Le livre de D'ni

In the title Le livre de D'ni • [Myst • 3] 'Le livre de D'ni' is made up out of the title field from the publication record and [Myst • 3] is composed out of the Series and series number field of the general title record The Book of D'ni. Your intended title contained redundant series information and was normalized by the moderator.--Dirk P Broer 13:55, 21 February 2021 (EST)

Two first printings of 'Fondation foudroyée'?

Hi! Approving of your addition of another first printing of this title, would lead what seems to be a doublette: they both seem to be the same publication, per "3.83" on bottom right of bc and Dépôt Légal = March 1983 (and this also should mean a publication in 1983-03, not 1983-02, as with the other first printing). What should be the difference, if any? Stonecreek 08:37, 25 February 2021 (EST)

We're facing here two different printings of this book, one with a 1983-02 AI and the other with a 1983-03 AI (Note that I've got both and that, for Asimov's titles, two printings a month apart are not unknown), the former being the "real" 1st printing and not the latter as stated on your site.AlainLeBris 08:49, 25 February 2021 (EST)
Thanks for the information. It'd be better, though, to first update the other (already existing) record, to make things clear. Stonecreek 09:12, 25 February 2021 (EST)

Bien après minuit

Hello Alain, and welcome to ISFDB.

I have approved your submission, but corrected A jamais la Terre to À jamais la Terre : in French titles, it is preferable to use the accented variants of capitals systematically, should the case arise, so as not to create unnecessary, irrelevant variants. Furthermore, I was wondering about Boire en une fois : contre la fureur des foules : is there indeed a colon in the French title, or are we dealing with a title + subtitle, as the English title and some of its translations imply ? In which case, the correct title should be Boire en une fois: Contre la fureur des foules. TIA, Linguist 08:37, 3 March 2021 (EST).

The Strange Case of ISBN 2-265-04297-8

Hi, Strange case here: the ISBN-10 2-265-04297-8 is shared between three French publications in our database, all by different authors and titles. One of them is verified by you: 'Le temps de l'effroi' by Piet Legay. The others are 'Le peuple pâle' by Alain Paris and 'Visiteurs d'apocalypse' by Jean-Pierre Andrevon. NooSFere has 2-265-04446-6 Le temps de l'effroi, 2-265-04348-6 Le Peuple pâle and 2-265-04297-8 Visiteurs d'apocalypse. Can you please check your copy of 'Le temps de l'effroi'?--Dirk P Broer 07:57, 4 March 2021 (EST)

It's 2-265-04446-6 on bc AND 2-265-04297-8 on copyright page for 'Le temps de l'effroi'. I usually go for the copyright page (-1 for noosfere's accuracy, as usual). Note that, the -04446-6 ISBN is more coherent with "adjacent" titles. I don't have the two others.AlainLeBris 09:30, 4 March 2021 (EST)
I think it is best to have 2-265-04446-6 in the publication record on the ISBN-field, and to mention in the note field that the copyright page mentions ISBN 2-265-04297-8 that is also tied to two other titles, while the back cover has an unique ISBN.--Dirk P Broer 14:33, 5 March 2021 (EST)

Force reject

Hello AlainLeBris,

I had to reject one of your submissions because the title did not exist anymore - in which case I do not have any other options :( (looking at the XML, it seems to be one of the Laverdet covers you were trying to untangle that got zapped again with a merge. I think these are now sorted but please let me know if anything else needs to be done. Annie 18:53, 5 March 2021 (EST)

Armageddon rag

Hello again,

What are you trying to do here? I do not see any changes? Thanks! Annie 18:54, 5 March 2021 (EST)

Forgot to copy/paste the URL for the cover, now done.AlainLeBris 02:38, 6 March 2021 (EST)

Date for La voie martienne

Hi, and a belated welcome. What is the source of the 1978-09-05 date for your proposed change? Thanks. --MartyD 10:10, 6 March 2021 (EST)

This following submission. AlainLeBris 10:13, 6 March 2021 (EST)
Ah, got it. Sorry, I did not notice. --MartyD 07:26, 7 March 2021 (EST)

Maîtresse de l'empire

Hello,

A quick question: In books with no DL (such as this one), where is your publishing date coming from? We need a source for exact dates (publisher site, printed on the book, announcement, Amazon.fr - whatever you are using, we need it documented). Thanks! Annie 02:03, 12 March 2021 (EST)

in order of declining fiability, the publication date is derived from 1) AI, 2) DL, 3) existing mention somewhere on the book (e.g. on bc for some LDPs or Seuil), 4) copyright statement. In this case it's from the AI whence (usually) the first line of the note : "Achevé D'Imprimer = Publication Date", when AI and DL are missing, the determination of the publication is usually explained in the notes. AlainLeBris 02:22, 12 March 2021 (EST)
The note makes sense to you because you already know what it means and where the data for French books can be found. :) If someone is not used to your format and to French books, it is almost impossible to understand what you are trying to say and how the date is connected to anything else. We are an international DB - the idea is that everyone should be able to understand where the data comes from regardless of their knowledge of local customs and conventions. Is the AI printed inside of the book? If yes - add that in the note somewhere and we all set. If not - add a note explaining where it is coming from. :) Hope this makes sense. Thanks! Annie 02:36, 12 March 2021 (EST)
Well, I don't know what to say. The Achevé d'Imprimer (date of the end of the printing) cannot be anywhere else than in the book (and only here). When there is no AI, this information is given in the notes.AlainLeBris 02:50, 12 March 2021 (EST)
So AI is printed in the Book? Then add “(printed in the book)” on the same line when the statement is there and we are all set. English language books do not have dates in them usually :) Russian ones have the date when they are signed for printing but not publishing dates usually. Bulgarian ones are lucky if they have anything but the year. Other Eastern and Central European ones are in the same boat or have a different arrangement. So for these, the exact dates are from secondary sources almost always. People not used to French books won’t realize that for them the dates are inside of the books. So adding the note will help. Annie 02:57, 12 March 2021 (EST)
The AI is always "printed in the book" by definition (like the printer's name for example), it's exactly the same type of information as the US printing line, but I never read in notes the fact or not that the printing line is printed in the book altough this may suits an international DB as "everyone should be able to understand where the data comes from regardless of their knowledge of local customs and conventions" :). AlainLeBris 03:05, 12 March 2021 (EST)
Actually.... It does even say where exactly it is in the book. :)
Not everyone speaks French. Or understands what this expression means or that when you add “Publication date” after it you are saying that this is where the value in the field comes from as opposed to just translating the French words. I am trying to help you make your notes a little more readable - I really like the fact that you are adding the information but if it is confusing, things don’t go well. Don’t be surprised if people start trying to “fix” your dates because they cannot understand how you derive them and decide that they are wrong - a moderator who is not here anymore and who used to be out French guy, used to insist on using DL no matter what else is available. People remembering that may decide that your days are wrong. Dates printed in a book beat anything else and I have zero issues with how you date the books. But I also do not want to spend time explaining to other editors all that and rejecting date changes (or fixing them once they are approved).
Thanks for adding all these books! Annie 03:24, 12 March 2021 (EST)

La pierre de l'adieu

Hi, I have a submission on hold from you where publication date, ISBN and notes do not agree with each other. Is it 1999 or 2009?.--Dirk P Broer 21:33, 17 March 2021 (EDT)

My mistake, it's 1999 instead of 2009. AlainLeBris 04:08, 18 March 2021 (EDT)

Page numbers

Hello,

As you are bumping the pages of a lot of books by 1 compared to OCLC and we had designed our count on OCLC's policies, I want to make sure we are not introducing different counting. The rule is: "[U]se the last printed page number, with exceptions explained below. (...) It is fairly common for the last page (or more) of text in a book to be unnumbered. In this case, count forward to the last page of text and use that as the publication's page count. For example, if a novel ends on the unnumbered page after page 244, enter the page count as "245" with an explanatory note about the unnumbered last page.". If this is how you count, no issues (although if these last pages are unnumbered, we will need a note to say so). Thanks! Annie 19:11, 21 March 2021 (EDT)

I've studied the rules and I act accordingly (or I always try to), whatever my feelings about them (the rules, that is) are. The fact that OCLC is not the most reliable of sources of data on such matters may not surprise you.AlainLeBris 03:38, 22 March 2021 (EDT)
Nope, not in the least (that is why we tend to write notes explaining where everything comes from) but I wanted to make sure we are not missing something. So I'd assume then that the last page has a page number printed on it if you do not mention an unnumbered last page. :) Thanks for the answer! :) Annie 03:46, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

L'assassin royal: Deuxième époque, 1

Split novels are treated as novels and this contains a complete novel and a half - so it goes in as an omnibus. Then you can import the 3 separate French titles (or add them if they have a new translator or titles) :). Split novels are always so much fun... not. Annie 04:10, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

Nicolas Demare

What is the source of the birth date here? Thanks! Annie 04:16, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

here.AlainLeBris 04:26, 22 March 2021 (EDT)
Merci :) Author page updated to include the link. Annie 04:32, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

Denis Hamon

Hello,

We list only publicly available data for the authors. Which means that we always need a source listed. If the site/page you found it on is just about the author, add it as a web page in the account. If it is in a newspaper, book or was just mentioned online somewhere, this needs to be in the notes. Where is the data here coming from? Thanks! Annie 22:04, 23 March 2021 (EDT)

From the book itself but the information also exists online here.AlainLeBris 06:05, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
Thanks! Annie 08:37, 24 March 2021 (EDT)

Capitalization updates in existing entities

Once a series, publication series, author name or a publisher name is created, you cannot change its capitalization from inside of a title or a publication record. The UI will look as if you can but when it is saved, it will just use the value as is in the DB. It is done on purpose (to ensure uniformity of the entries) but it is annoying when you are trying to change the capitalization. Based on the update here, I updated the pub series name to use capital V. Just heads up for next time you need to update any of these. Thanks! Annie 22:34, 23 March 2021 (EDT)

Mon ami Jehan: Souvenir d'un visionnaire

When changing the date of a story without adding the book containing it, we need a note explaining where it was published before and where the date comes from. Otherwise the date will be fixed back to the first book we have with it sooner or later. I approved the change here but please add a note OR the book/magazine that contains the story. Thanks! Annie 13:05, 6 April 2021 (EDT)

Just for the pleasure of teasing you, you mean like the note for this text?.AlainLeBris 13:30, 6 April 2021 (EDT)
Two wrongs can make a right only in formal logic. ;) It is a big DB and we always have cleanup to do - we had been slowly working through a "Title Dates Before First Publication Date" report, type by type and stories had not been added yet. Once they are added, both will come up for review and with no note, chances are that the dates will simply be reset тхус thus losing information. :) Annie 13:46, 6 April 2021 (EDT)

Nouvelles Tome 2/1953-1981

Thanks for submitting Nouvelles Tome 2/1953-1981! I have approved the submission, but I am wondering about the stated ISBN, "9207258718". The software flags it as a "bad checksum" and Abebooks lists this publication as ISBN "2207258718". Was the first digit a typo, by chance? Ahasuerus 11:32, 8 April 2021 (EDT)

In fact there are three (!) different ISBNs on the book : 9-207-25871-8 on bc, 2-207-25871-8 on last page and 2-207-25175-6 on copyright page. The fist is likely a misprint, the second is probably the correct one (it matches with EAN-13) and the last is the one for the first (2000) LdE printing. AlainLeBris 11:43, 8 April 2021 (EDT)
Thanks for checking! I have approved the follow-up submission. Ahasuerus 11:50, 8 April 2021 (EDT)

œ and other oddities

Hello,

When replacing oe with œ, please add the title with the oe as a transliteration. This is needed to enable people who cannot produce œ with their keyboards to be able to find the title in the DB if they search with the "oe". I am adding these as I am approving but just heads up for the future. See this for an example. :) Annie 09:49, 12 April 2021 (EDT)

And I can see you already doing it in the latest updates so ignore that note :) Thanks for adding the transliterations. Annie 10:07, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
I'll try to, even if it's totally unnatural for a french locutor.AlainLeBris 10:34, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
International DB. :) Not everyone searching for a French title is going to speak French and not every site having French titles uses the special characters (especially English language sites) so even when someone copies, they may be coming with the oe. If it helps, at least you need transliterations on only some titles. Every single Bulgarian (or Russian or Japanese) title needs it. :) Thanks for the understanding! Annie 10:46, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
One note, simple accented characters such as è are treated as their non-accented versions in Latin-1 so they do not require explicit transliteration. It is not a mistake to add it but don't worry about them if they are the only ones in the title. The usual test to verify if you need transliteration is to search with and without it (before the titles have transliterations added - we take these into consideration if they are there). If the results are the same, we are good. If they are not (which is the case with œ with no transliterations), we need to add it. That's why you do not see the transliterations on most French titles. Annie 16:35, 13 April 2021 (EDT)

Un p'tit quelque chose pour nous, les temponautes !

We cannot just merge these - this book shows the translator as Hélène Collon. I can see in BNF that she just harmonized the translations (that's a very French thing...) but our record says something else. So before we can merge, this needs to be resolved. The PV is not here so a note explaining the translation credit (and which source is used for that) and a date (today's - to show it is post PV-ing) will clear the path for the merges. Do you want to add the note? And are those translations really the same? If they are different enough, we will want to keep them separate - even if they are done from the same person. Annie 11:32, 12 April 2021 (EDT)

I've based my edits on this bibliography that is by Collon herself. When she alone has translated the text, it's clearly indicated (like this text). Based on a certain familiariry with french publisher's practices, I've supposed that all the other cases are just slight revisions of earlier translations as her involvment is not even cited in her own bibliography. It's very very unlikely that the Folio volume uses "new" translations. As the PV is inactive (and my copy of this particular book is hidden in the middle of 25.000 others), I'll let you decide what to do as this will be notably quicker.AlainLeBris 11:51, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
That's what I needed. Let me figure out the language for the note and then I will approve all the merges. Annie 11:54, 12 April 2021 (EDT)

La petite boîte noire

All the Collon revisions are now merged but this one is different. Are you sure it is the same translation? It seems like we legitimately have two separate translations? Annie 16:08, 13 April 2021 (EDT)

I've merged only the Billon and the Collon as this seems the more coherent with the publication history of the text.AlainLeBris 03:09, 14 April 2021 (EDT)
Collon has nothing to do with the one I am asking about here - it is Dorémieux and Billon that you are trying to merge. The question is - are the two translations the same? If so - who translated and who revised? Unless we know it is the same translation, we do not merge them. Thus me asking - if there is no source and/or you cannot check in both books, I will need to reject the merge. In this case - where does the third one go so I can merge it where it belongs? Annie 03:17, 14 April 2021 (EDT)
Before my intitial reply I've made my homework and I've deleted the three-way merge and replaced it by a two-way one (to which i referred by "I've merged") that will likely answer your questions.AlainLeBris 03:35, 14 April 2021 (EDT)
Ah, I thought you are talking about the original merge :) thanks for fixing this one! Also - in case you missed it - see my note two threads up. And with that I am off for the night. Annie 03:38, 14 April 2021 (EDT)
Good night. AlainLeBris 03:57, 14 April 2021 (EDT)

Hachette/Carrère

About this one. Is this an imprint or is that the name of an independent publisher that has / in the name? If an imprint, who is the parent. Our format is "Imprint / Publisher" regardless of how it is credited in the book (the exact book spelling can go to the notes). Thanks! Annie 11:58, 16 April 2021 (EDT)

It's more a kind of co-publication between two publishers, not a publisher/imprint relation (which is purely anglosaxon thing) that's why I didn't insert spaces. Carrère has published the first six in the series here. The ISBN is pure Hachette.AlainLeBris 12:02, 16 April 2021 (EDT)
I'd use "and" or "&" then instead of / (as we use / for imprints and someone will decide to be helpful and fix the formatting for you, thinking it was a typo :) ). Do you want me to change it to "Hachette & Carrère"? Alternatively, we put one of the publishers in the field (Hachette) and add the other one in the field and the other in the notes (and yes, multi-publishers had been requested). Let me know. Annie 12:10, 16 April 2021 (EDT)
It seems that there is no lack of "regularisators" like here where it's exactly the same case. To be frank, the subtle distinction between Hachette/Carrère (as on book) and Hachette / Carrère (pure ISFDB convention for the lack of a proper "imprint" field) is probably too much for me. Let's keep it as entered and if it's modified by an overzealous moderator, il just will the nth time that the "practice" leads to falsifying data. AlainLeBris 12:27, 16 April 2021 (EDT)
I don't make up the rules, I am just trying to apply them, even when I am not happy with them (well, I also seek to change some of them in such cases). :) I added a note here which should stop someone from "fixing" it. And I had not forgotten about the series thing - still working on it (and was away most of yesterday).
Are you saying that this one is also not an imprint/publisher situation? Annie 12:40, 16 April 2021 (EDT)

Au-delà de l'infini

I approved your submission of Au-delà de l'infini, but had to remove the ISBN, which had a bad checksum. Recheck it and reenter. Bob 15:07, 14 May 2021 (EDT)

Please remember to use the "+" tab on top of the page, it will create a new and distinct subject instead of placing your message under another topic. As for the ISBN, I'm still able to see the yellow warning and act accordingly. In this case, the ISBN on book is as entered. As such cases are treated diffrently depending on the moderator's whim, I'll let you ponder how to enter it.AlainLeBris 01:47, 15 May 2021 (EDT)

Un paysage du temps: Tome 2

Regarding Un paysage du temps: Tome 2: When there is a difference in the title between the title page and the cover, it's nice to have a publication note stating that. Not a big deal so it's not required, but it sometimes heads off questions / mistakes down the road. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:18, 11 July 2021 (EDT)

Review titles

Hello Alain! I made the changes you suggested for the reviews. Would it be possible for you to add the titles that are not yet in our database? Regards and thanks Rudolf Rudam 11:50, 29 July 2021 (EDT)

Hello Rudolf, with the present bottleneck at moderation level, this will take me an nearly infinite time to complete (surely more than a full week to obtain a satisfying result with the multiple submissions required). I'm also "philosophically" opposed to the entering of books that I don't own.AlainLeBris 14:14, 29 July 2021 (EDT)
I really comprehend it. Rudolf Rudam 16:14, 29 July 2021 (EDT)

The Moon and the Sun review

Hi Alain, your submission for the "The Moon and the Sun" review doesn't contain any changes. Based on your note it looks like you probably wanted to break the review's link to "The Moon and the Sun" and change the review's title to "La Lune et le roi-soleil". Can you take a look? Thanks, Jens Hitspacebar 13:27, 2 August 2021 (EDT)

Hi Jens. In fact, it's the same situation as in the above thread. It is necessary to create the record for the french translation and then link it to the review. As I said above, I don't have the patience to do this myself as, due to the bottleneck at moderation level and the number of submissions necessary (enter book, finalize book, link review), it may take a week or so for me to complete the task. That's why I'm suggesting that a moderator is better placed than me to do it with the information that I provide. AlainLeBris 03:58, 3 August 2021 (EDT)
Ah, ok, I see. The submission was something like a suggestion for the moderators. One or two more words in the submission's moderator note instead of just a link would be helpful in such a case, because some moderators (like me) are here sporadically only and it'd make it easier for them to understand the submission's intention. :) Jens Hitspacebar 15:31, 3 August 2021 (EDT)

Base Spatiale 14

Hi, I guess something went wrong with 'Base Spatiale 14' (Two Forced Rejects that offer me as much info as they do to you). My guess is that you cloned the original entry (done as by M. A. Rayjean), made a change request for the title record to be as by Max-André Rayjean and then did a change request for the original publication record to be a variant of the changed title record. This method has a drawback however, as it leaves two publication records as by M. A. Rayjean -and not a single one as by Max-André Rayjean. It would have been easier and quicker to have entered a new 'Base Spatiale 14' done by Max-André Rayjean (thus creating both a title record and a publication record for Max-André Rayjean) and varianted the old M. A. Rayjean title record to the new one.--Dirk P Broer 05:45, 7 August 2021 (EDT)

It was more on the lines of an initial unmerge by me (the more recent publication was wrongly credited to canonical) that I intended to correct then merge with the existing pseudonymistic record. But alas, too much time passed between appovals and the matter was coumpounded by outside well-meaning interventions. The present delays are making difficult for contributors to follow their lines of thought as the necessary succession of submissions (in this case I intended three : unmerge/change/remerge) may take more than a week to be approved. Be rassured; everything is now OK. AlainLeBris 11:11, 8 August 2021 (EDT)

Sans âme cover credit

Hi. I have on hold your submission that would credit the cover of Sans âme to Derek Caballero. You left the note Artist = Not clearly credited on bc (diverse sources), while adding the comment about how it is usually credited. But you have made yourself primary verifier, so I assume you have the book, and we no longer care about what "diverse sources" say. Is there any artist credit? What is it? If I look on Amazon, both the image of the back cover and Look Inside's copyright page say:

  • Illustration de couverature:
    • Fond: © Express / Hulton Archives / Getty Images
    • Personnage: © Donna Ricci

Does your copy say something like that? If so, I think we should re-confirm the crediting in Soulless. Taweiss is a primary verifier who is still active. --MartyD 08:41, 8 August 2021 (EDT)

Hi.
My bad wording, the "diverse sources" is not for the source of the credit but for the source of the illustration as the 'credit' on the book is quite multiple and obscure as you've seen. In such cases I usually do not assign credit but here it seems that we have a clear credit here thus this being a case of credit "by proxy" as it's the same illustration. AlainLeBris 11:05, 8 August 2021 (EDT)
Oh, sorry, now I understand. What do you think about changing "sources" to "contributors" and changing "usually credited to Derek Caballero" to "credited to Derek Caballero based on photographer credit in Soulless (Orbit (US), 2009) having the same artwork."? Those examples would read:
- Artist = Not clearly credited on bc (diverse contributors), credited to Derek Caballero based on photographer credit in Soulless (Orbit (US), 2009) having the same artwork.
Or something like that? Whatever you think would be clear. I will accept the submission and make any changes you suggest (including none). Thanks. --MartyD 14:45, 9 August 2021 (EDT)
Submitted, thanks. AlainLeBris 01:58, 10 August 2021 (EDT)

Préface, and, La querelle

Hello, I have two submissions of yours on hold (here and here).

For the Préface, I am puzzled by the '(2002)' in brackets, so I was wondering if you could clarify why you would merge the 2015 title Préface à Tree and Leaf (2002) with the 1988 title Introduction? I would suspect that Préface à Tree and Leaf (2002) would have a publication date of 2002, not 2015 to begin with? (and where does the (2002) come from?)

Concerning La querelle, could you clarify/confirm that this corresponds exactly to the English fragment? Where did you get that info from?

Thanks! MagicUnk 15:20, 13 August 2021 (EDT)

If there is now some need to justify all of my "MakeVariant" submissions, it will take a looot of time. As you're questionning my edits without any factual element and more importantly without any access to the physical material, I'll drop the matter and let you make the "correct" variants for these and perhaps for all other titles that I may enter. Submissions deleted. AlainLeBris 04:39, 14 August 2021 (EDT)
Your reply doesn't make any sense - there are only two that I have questions about out of the hunderd or so of your submissions that I've approved. It so happens that these two puzzled me, so I thought I'd ask. As you have the book, and I don't, I can't (won't) submit the varianting. If you won't answer my two simple questions for clarification, these titles will remain unvarianted as no-one will do it in your stead. Also, remember that this is all volunteer work - just so you know, some of us have lives besides the isfdb. I took the time since I noticed your message about the backlog so I thought I'd give it a hand and help out. However, you have to realize with these kind of nonsensical, even rude, answers, won't help to get your submissions treated any faster (au contraire). MagicUnk 14:24, 14 August 2021 (EDT)

Updating dates

Hello. I notice that you submit date changes for title and coverart records, and then once more when you update the publication record. That is 2 edits too many :) If there's only one publication record, you can update the date of the title records in one edit. When you submit a lot like you, it can become significant. Regards, MagicUnk 15:21, 21 August 2021 (EDT)

Thanks for the tip but I already know this trick ("ungreyed" field => the record -cover or else- is directly modifiable at publication level), but due to the vagaries of moderation (edits out of sequence, rejected edits) that gave some erroneous results, I think it safer to proceed this way (usually I update first the title and the cover record, then the publication where I also change their dates as a backup measure).AlainLeBris 03:46, 22 August 2021 (EDT)
That is really without any benefit. If you submit one publication record edit, there's no possibility of getting edits out of sequence when approved (there's only one after all). I don't see that leading to erroneous results, really. So, to reduce your work and moderators' work, please consider submitting only one edit next time. Thanks! ~~

La communauté de l'anneau ISBN

Hi. I accepted your La communauté de l'anneau clone submission, but the ISBN "2266162419" was flagged has having a bad checksum. A quick Google found me https://www.tolkiendil.com/tolkien/biblio/cda , listing the ISBN for that edition as "2266162411". Since that looked like a typo candidate to me, I changed what you submitted to that instead to try to save you another edit and wait for approval. If that was incorrect, I apologize. I suggest if what is in the publication only differs by the incorrect checksum, we leave the corrected ISBN in place and record the malformed ISBN in the notes. Thanks. --MartyD 16:35, 7 September 2021 (EDT)

AI of Vampire Junction

Hello Alain,

Could you please check the Achevé d'imprimer of your verified, as I suspect Hauck had mistakenly inverted the last two figures of the printing date : my copy has "11 septembre 2006”, and I doubt whether there would be reprint two months after the first release. TYIA, Linguist 11:13, 14 September 2021 (EDT).

AI is indeed september 2006.AlainLeBris 12:34, 14 September 2021 (EDT)
Thanks ! Linguist 15:35, 14 September 2021 (EDT).

Cover artist

Cover artist of Dédale 2 Henri Lievens is found here. --Zapp 13:34, 23 September 2021 (EDT)

Same artist of Dédale 1 is found in same web page. --Zapp 06:24, 27 September 2021 (EDT)
Same artist of Complot Vénus-Terre is found in same web page. --Zapp 06:47, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
Same artist of Résurrections is found in same web page. --Zapp 07:05, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
Same artist of Terre... Siècle 24 is found in same web page. --Zapp 07:11, 29 September 2021 (EDT)
Same artist of Le charretier de la mort is found in same web page. --Zapp 07:47, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

Pocket (France)

Hi! Are all the Pocket (France) Press Pocket? If So I can do merge at my end. Thanks!Kraang 21:27, 25 September 2021 (EDT)

Yes, at least they are entered as Presses Pocket by all the PVs (it's a kind of implicit regularization). The only Pocket (France) are those entered by Aarvark7 (and usually approved by DPB) without any consideration for the existing records (compare this and that). The result is usually pure rubbish, for example this record has a price of €10.00 which is 1) very very very unlikely as of the 1476 PP books on my shelves, less then 10 have a price (usually PKJ titles or some "Intégrales") and 2) results from an incorrect and/or hasty reading of a sometimes dubious secondary source where the "10" is in fact the price category. AlainLeBris 03:45, 26 September 2021 (EDT)
I see there are only 4 pubs left, should I merge them our do you want to submit an update?Kraang
Submitted. AlainLeBris 11:33, 26 September 2021 (EDT)

Aqua™

Hello,

This one needs either a note that only ISBN10 is present in the book or ISBN13 needs to be used. Thanks! Annie 15:55, 5 October 2021 (EDT)

Data on book is as entered.AlainLeBris 02:04, 6 October 2021 (EDT)
Then we need a note as we always do when books after 2007 have only ISBN10. Thanks. Annie 02:15, 6 October 2021 (EDT)

Na Orenjevoy Planete update

HI! Was the review title wrong[1]? It's been verified by one of the other mods. Thanks.Kraang 13:01, 9 October 2021 (EDT)

Yes.AlainLeBris 06:01, 10 October 2021 (EDT)

Date updates of titles minor suggestion

Hi! Just a minor suggestion, it would be better to submit the publication first and then the title date change. This way I don't have to look further down the que to see if there's a new pub. I have to stop look forward and then track back, slows things down or add a note in moderator box indicating a pub will be added. Thanks. :)Kraang 21:37, 10 October 2021 (EDT)

Okidoki.AlainLeBris 03:03, 11 October 2021 (EDT)

Au coeur de la comète

The Cleanup Reports Publication Title-Reference Title Mismatches show Your pv pub, too. So the question is whether the title on title page is spelled 'coeur' or 'cœur'? --Zapp 04:45, 14 October 2021 (EDT)

It's "cœur". AlainLeBris 09:22, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
Thanks. Publication and contents have to have the same spelling. --Zapp 15:42, 14 October 2021 (EDT)

Titles and publication titles

Just a reminder that when you are changing the title record's title for a reference title (aka the main title for a book) such as here, the title of the associated publications also need changing - they need to match. I fixed it here but please keep that in mind while correcting the wrong titles around the DB. If any of the publications actually use a different form of the title, we will need to split and variant the reference title. Thanks! Annie 14:41, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

L'impossible quête

Hello,

As you changed the format of this into an omnibus awhile back, we will need its contents to be imported. As it is using the same title record as your verified, should we just import the same 3 novels and add a note that it is based on the earlier edition? Or do you have any other data? Thanks! Annie 02:03, 23 October 2021 (EDT)

Hello, to be seen with the person that created the record in the first place (this may help). AlainLeBris 09:57, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
You were the one who changed the type of the title record. Annie 16:50, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

Bohème vs Bohême

In this publication, the publication record is "Bohème", but the title record is "Bohême". Can you please check which is correct & update the incorrect one? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:46, 23 October 2021 (EDT)

And same for this publication with "Operation" vs "Opération". Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:48, 23 October 2021 (EDT)

I've never modified verified publications (and do not intend to). Let's say it's an ethical position. AlainLeBris 09:47, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
I'm confused. You changed both the title record and cover records for these publications so you have indeed modified these verified publications. It is also odd that you would have an "ethical position" to not change them, but be fine verifying them which means that you have compared the entry to the publication and the entry is correct. For these publications (and other similar cases), they were originally entered before the ISFDB support non-ASCII in the title fields. There is no issues with bringing them up to current standards. -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:22, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
You seem to be under the impression that changing the title which is inside of a verified publication is somehow different from changing the publication itself. If anything, changing a title record is more dangerous as PVs may not notice. So yes, you had been changing Verified publications a lot - just not via PubEdit. As you have no qualms fixing the title records, please finish your edits and also fix the attached publications. If you are unwilling to do that, then you should be splitting the ones with the new titles with the new names and varianting them back instead of changing the existing titles. Which will be a bit silly as we know that we have issues with special characters on old publications due to older versions of the site code so these will probably be rejected and moderators will be explaining to you what you should be really doing. But leaving titles and publications titles different means that someone needs to finish your edits for you. Annie 16:57, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

Page count for Le monde enfin

Hi,

You PVed this pub with an unlikely page count. Any idea what it should be? Thanks ErsatzCulture 17:50, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

Hi again, here's another one with a bad page count value. (I've just run a query against the database for novels with the highest number of pages, and there are a few like these that are data entry errors.) Thanks again ErsatzCulture 18:12, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
That first one is not PVd by AlainLeBris (and has an acceptable page number for an omnibus)? Copy/paste mishap? Annie 18:19, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
Ooops - yes, a C&P error. (I'm sure there's an irony somewhere here, given that most of these dodgy page counts look to have been created that way ;-) Anyway, here's the correct link ErsatzCulture 18:37, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

Imajica: Tome 1

The sumcheck[2] was bad so I changed it back. Was this just an input error? Thanks.Kraang 12:52, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

I would be very nice to read what I took some pain to write in the notes : "ISBN as entered (one extra digit)". It will save you and me some time. As you took charge of the publication, I've unverified it. AlainLeBris 13:07, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
My mistake, no need to remove verification will switch back and look into how bad ISBN are handled now.Kraang 13:22, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
All fixed[3]Kraang 13:25, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
Current guidelines are to correct the ISBN, move the incorrect ISBN to Catalog ID and put all relevant info about adjustment into notes.Kraang 13:49, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

Nouvelles histoires d'outre-monde

HI! I've put this submission[4] on hold and will approve when I have a little more time to fix the name changes that will cause variant conflicts. This would not be easy for a new editor to fix and even harder for me to explain. Will deal with it tomorrow. P.S. had this issue with the Cona name changes but that was easy no variant languages and other things to keep in mind. ThanksKraang 15:54, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

In fact, there will be no variant conflict. Let's take this title, as it's already a variant (in this case for language reasons), the name change (from canonical to alternate) will be without effect (the canonical-alternate relationship being already in place) AND this is the sole occurence of the text. The only thing to check is if the alternate name is a "new" one or not. If it's a "new" pseudonym, the relationship between the two should be established (lest it appears on a cleanup report). For one of the Howard texts ("...en replis tortueux"), it'll have to merged with the already existing one which is already by Robert E. Howard.AlainLeBris 02:22, 26 October 2021 (EDT)

RE: no ISBN removal

Hi! In an earlier post[5] you mentioned ("ISBN"= None in book) is this what you meant "Achevé D'Imprimer = None on book" if so its a bit unclean even when I run it through translate. If that's the case the it might be better to change it to "Achevé D'Imprimer(ISBN) = None on book". I'll keep the change[6] on hold for a bit. Thanks.Kraang 16:21, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

I've simply self-rejected my submission and unverified this publication as data was added by someone and approved by a moderator without any of those persons having ever seen it. Do as you want, I care no more about it. Note that the ISBN and the Achevé d'Imprimer have strictly nothing in common so your proposed phrase doesn't mean anything.AlainLeBris 04:08, 31 October 2021 (EDT)

Cover art added to Le point Oméga

Cover art added to Le point Oméga[7], artists credited in this pub[8].Kraang 15:00, 30 October 2021 (EDT)

L'immortel de Pangéa

Just a gentle reminder that when you change the titles in a TITLE record, all publication records which use the same title also need adjustment. I've fixed it here. Thanks! Annie 02:50, 22 November 2021 (EST)

Work in progress in this case. AlainLeBris 03:03, 22 November 2021 (EST)
(we were cross updating so I will post it anyway) If you try to set variants for this kind of changes, when it is obvious that the old record was created before we were able to use accented letters, they will be rejected - and you will just create more work for everyone. I understand that you do not like touching books you do not own but as it had been pointed out a few times - every time you update a title, you ARE touching a book. So let's try to save everyone time and just send the Publication update as well (or if you really prefer not to, add a moderator note "Please change the publication titles as well" when you are changing the novel/collection/athology title so it is not missed). And just to make sure we are on the same page - I am not talking for cases where you add transliteration only - it is for cases where you are changing the title of the TITLE record. Thanks! Annie 03:08, 22 November 2021 (EST)
If something is "obvious" (without the book(s)?), no problem, reject as you like (I'll just unverify the publication and attack the next one), I love systems with such certainties. From now on, I will take the variant route when encountering a title different than the title record, as here (note that the record without dashes is likely pure b*****).AlainLeBris 03:33, 22 November 2021 (EST)
Dashes are different from accented characters... we had always been able to use dashes in the titles. In the early days of the DB, we could not use the French letters outside of the [A-Za-z] - that is what we are talking about here. Thanks! Annie 03:41, 22 November 2021 (EST)

Duplicate Publications?

I'm holding a number of clones that look like they are creating duplicate publications:

In each case, the only difference is the existing record includes a day of publication whereas yours do not. These days came from Amazon.fr based on the publication history. While verified, the records still have "Data from Amazon.fr" and that verifier was not so concerned about accuracy based on past interactions. Am I missing something that makes your records a different edition / printing?

You have some other clones that could be similar situation, but the date variations are a little larger. That is not unknown between what Amazon says and what is actually in the book, but harder to be certain of that. -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:35, 28 November 2021 (EST)

In these cases, there is more than the simple difference of day (which is a meaningless at best, untrue at worst, piece of data in the case of Bragleonne/Milady where the precise day of publication isquite never given on the book). The verified records have also different number of pages (even this submission where 608 should be changed to 609) and different (or no) prices. So the books that I own are not those verified by C1.AlainLeBris 10:57, 28 November 2021 (EST)
The publication edit history shows that C1 verified these pubs without editing them (a common tendency that editor had). The data is the original Amazon data which is not always accurate. It is highly unlikely the publisher released two versions in the same month with slightly different page counts, etc. You are creating duplicate (though more accurate records). Ideally, we would cancel these and have you edit the existing records. I'm guessing, however, if I asked you to do that, you'd simply walk away from these pubs as you tend to do. As such, I have accepted the clones and deleted the exiting records. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:48, 28 November 2021 (EST)
As for "I'm guessing, however, if I asked you to do that, you'd simply walk away from these pubs as you tend to do.", you're guessing perfectly right. I only take responsability for the data that I enter and refuse without the certainty that we're talking about the same physical object to alter data that someboby took some pain to enter. For the initial record, the policy to accept records that may look complete but are in fact lifted straight from a secondary source without any caution (like data from amazon) or knowledge of the specific field (like french publishing mores) is yours and only yours, not mine.AlainLeBris 09:55, 1 December 2021 (EST)

Les chevaux de Soulimane

Hi, one would think that it's unlikely that this publication holds a novel — looking at the page count: even at 300 words per page (which seems not very likely for a text aimed at adults, and quite unlikely for a juvenile) this would well be under the threshold of 40,000 words. So it seems more likely that it's a CHAPBOOK containing a novella. Could you please take a closer look? Thanks, Christian Stonecreek 05:01, 1 December 2021 (EST)

In addition, shouldn't the publisher be the commonly known Albin Michel? It is according to the OCLC entry I just linked to (and according to the ISBN range 2-226-). Christian Stonecreek 12:47, 1 December 2021 (EST)
Also, what is the source for the note that it's not the first printing: the copyright date is not sufficient when there's no other earlier publication to be found (or is there?) It still might be the first. Christian Stonecreek 01:52, 2 December 2021 (EST)
With no response I have posted the problem(s) at the Moderator's Noticeboard. If you change your mind on communicating, please do respond there. Thanks, Christian Stonecreek 07:39, 2 December 2021 (EST)
I didn't know that I had to answer to you about my submissions (you've been kicked out as a moderator IIRC). As for the "first printing" bit, had you, like me, catalogued a few tens of thousands of french books, I'll be inclined to listen to you. Alas, it's not the case, you're simply incompetent in this field and your opinion on the printing rank of french books has strictly zero value (as would mine regarding printing ranks of german titles).AlainLeBris 12:30, 2 December 2021 (EST)
Any chance you can do some counting (one full page - number of lines plus the number of words on one line will be more than enough for a rough estimate) to see if this is long enough for a novel? Considering its age, unless I see a modern edition I am not willing to convert it base don page number alone (120 pages is enough for a novel in these years often enough). Thanks in advance! Annie 12:48, 2 December 2021 (EST)

La machine à explorer le temps double

Hi. Perhaps you can help me. I discovered I have a copy of La machine à explorer le temps suivi de L'île du Docteur Moreau. Mine is likewise Le Livre de Poche ("Texte intégral"), with "Volume Double" and "Imprimé en France" on the back, and 776 | 777 on the spine. The cover on mine looks identical to what we have on that record. The title page has "Traduit de l'anglais du Henry D. Duvray" under the title and also "Mercure de France" at the bottom. On the back side of the title page, the copyright page is blank except for "© Mercure de France, 1959." at the bottom.

On the back of p. 437 (so, unnumbered p. 438) is: 

IMPRIMÉ EN FRANCE PAR BRODARD ET TAUPIN
6, place d'Alleray - Paris.
Usine de La Fléche, le 10-11-1971.
6562-5 - Dépot légal n° 9999, 4e trimestre 1971.
LE LIVRE DE POCHE - 22, avenue Pierre 1er de Serbie - Paris.
30 - 21 - 0776 - 07

and the last page has <H> 30/0776/2 in the bottom right corner.

Does that all mean this is a 1971 edition of the same publication, with explicit publication date 1971-11-10, confirmed by the "4e trimestre 1971"? And that it was printed by Brodard et Taupin for Le Livre de Poche, who is the publisher and not Mercure de France? Do any of the numbers tell us anything about a price?

Thanks. --MartyD 13:03, 31 December 2021 (EST)

Congratulations, you've resolved all the mysteries of this book...
IMPRIMÉ EN FRANCE PAR BRODARD ET TAUPIN indicates the printer (B&D is a frequent pb printer)
le 10-11-1971 is the printing date that we use as Publication Date
Dépot légal n° 9999, 4e trimestre 1971 is the date when this particular edition has been "registered" with the BNF (french national library), it usually matches the printing date but some publishers do not bother to register later printings so this date is less valid for dating purposes
Le Livre de Poche was at first strictly a publisher of reprints and had the (bad) habit to simply re-use the title page of the first edition without changing the publisher (less expensive, copyright obligation?), that's why you've got MERCURE THE FRANCE on it (like here)
The diverse codes are probably printer's ones (batch numbers?) and I don't know how to extract meaningful information from them, for a given printing they are identical (to the best of my knowledge)
The usual french practice for pricing pbs (it's starting to change) is to assign to each book a price category (here Volume Double but you'll find a lot of systems) that is, at the time of the sale, translated by the bookshop into a price. This of course allows the publisher to rise the prices without having to do anything, just by transmitting a new table of prices by category, it's pure magic.
Hope that all this help you.AlainLeBris 13:37, 31 December 2021 (EST)
It did. Thanks! --MartyD 08:49, 1 January 2022 (EST)

Cover Image Data

Hello Alain,

Just a quick reminder : when you upload a new cover scan, please make sure you replace the previous scanner's name by yours on the Cover Image Data Web page, as this is not automatic (it is only so in the case of a first scan). Thanks (and Happy New Year) ! Linguist 04:51, 4 January 2022 (EST).

Le Déclin de Trantor

Hi, the cover art of this is by Chesley Bonestell, not by Ed Emshwiller. Bonestell's painting first appeared in Pic 1948-12, then in Beyond the Solar System. An altered version (with a smaller sun) appeared as the cover of F&SF 1954-11. Horzel 17:55, 14 January 2022 (EST)

French Perry Rhodan

Hi, Alain! As you have verified some volumes in the series you may want to take part here. Christian Stonecreek 08:32, 16 January 2022 (EST)

Hi, following the above thread I have updated Escale dans Balayndagar. If you find any major (or minor) errors please let me know it. Thanks, Stonecreek 09:56, 18 January 2022 (EST)
There is no error in attributing the credit to Scheer & Darlton. It functions in France as a kind of house name regardless of the real authors behind the texts (that are sometimes heavily rewritten by the translator/adaptator). If you persist in this ridiculous way of entering XXX(in error) when THERE IS NO ERROR, just a publisher's strategy, I'll just stop entering any new title in the series. AlainLeBris 11:22, 18 January 2022 (EST)
This is absolutely not ridiculous: the credit is erroneous, because neither Scheer nor Darlton wrote anything in or for that volume (if they did so for other volumes they deserve credit), and the volume title was erroneously varianted to them: the original source title is clearly stated on the copyright page, along with the editor / adaptor Hubert Haensel. If you think that is wrong, bring it up somewhere, at best in the discussion thread I asked you to participate in above. Stonecreek 12:43, 18 January 2022 (EST)
Let me remark that the house name does work for K.-H. Scheer - this name was only used for French publications so far - but, alas, not for Clark Darlton. Stonecreek 12:59, 18 January 2022 (EST)
Hi! I updated Les exilés d'Elgir and the other publications of the collection according to the discussion on the Community Portal referred to above. It'd be most helpful if you'd change your mind and contribute to things getting right (here: please look if the added titles are correct and if there might still be missing something; you also might want to enter the beginning pages). And you cold join us in getting the work done. After all, I faced the same feeling when I entered this publication. And the problem of deliberate miscrediting an author / editor is something the German series also faced, see the note for and the variant title of this example, and it also was a lot of work to get things right for those years. Stonecreek 07:10, 24 January 2022 (EST)

Stalker

Again, there's some incongruency: here the credit goes to Arcadi Strougatski, whereas the cover, OCLC and Amazon have Arkadi Strougatski, which seems to be correct. If that should be so, let me remark that it is not enough to just click towards a primary verification: if you do so, you sort of guarantee that the reported data is correct. Stonecreek 12:27, 20 January 2022 (EST)

And also, phrases like "Data from Amazon.fr, nooSFere and Worldcat" that are still there become obsolete, as soon as there's a primary verifier, and should be replaced and updated with other (sourcing) notes, for example on the source for the publication date, the credir for the cover art, and so on. Just because there's a previous - equally insufficient - primary verification (by C1), doesn't mean we want the data insufficient. Stonecreek 12:32, 20 January 2022 (EST)

So, do you plan to do something about it? Please leave an answer, because else I intend to do something about it (and other equally abounded publications). Stonecreek 10:07, 21 January 2022 (EST)
Christian, it's been less than 24 hours since your original questions were posted. Please do not edit publications primary-verified by active editors without their consent. If you believe that a verifier has made a mistake, e.g. a name was misspelled, and the verifier does not respond to your inquiry after a week, post your findings on the Moderator Noticeboard. To quote the ISFDB FAQ:
  • If you want to change or remove information, please ask the verifier first. If the verifier doesn't respond in a week or so, post a note on the Moderator noticeboard and someone will help you.
This is the standard procedure and all editors are expected to follow it. Ahasuerus 13:15, 21 January 2022 (EST)
Well, that's what I intended to do. But with Alain's habit of not communicating when asked (see for example the thread posted immediately above this one, and him being active every day), I thought it's better to begin with it. But thanks - on Alain's behalf - for the update. Christian Stonecreek 13:37, 21 January 2022 (EST)

Le barde des étoiles

A third party has provided me with information and evidence that the covert arist for this is Henri Lievens, see this auction. --Mavmaramis 14:39, 10 March 2022 (EST)

Vers un nouvel empire - Isaac Asimov

In this publication, you have a date of 2000-04-00, yet the notes refer to "Dépôt Légal = April 2004". Is the publication date or the note in error? ../Doug H 09:45, 20 April 2022 (EDT)

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