User talk:Thomas Bull

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Welcome!

Hello, Thomas Bull, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! MHHutchins 07:26, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Borderlands Magazine

Your submissions adding the first three issues of this periodical have been accepted into the database. A few questions/concerns:

  • The editorials in each issue have been disambiguated with the title of the issue to keep them from being merged with identically titled records. A question; all three issues contained editorials by Stephen Dedman, although you've given Simon Oxwell as the editor of the issues. What is Dedman's role in the magazine?
  • In the note field, you have to add an HTML line break in order to create a new line. Enter "<br>" at the end of the line if you want to start a new one. A simple "enter" stroke on your keyboard isn't recognized in this field.
  • I'm assuming you have copies of these issues and can do a primary verification of the records (see the link in the Welcome section about how to verify data). If you don't have copies, you should record the source for your data in the record's note field.
  • The first and third issue were published by Borderlands Press, while the second was published by Borderlands Publications Incorporated. Is the publisher stated differently in the issues?
  • There was no price given for any of the issues. If there is no stated price enter "A$0" in the field. (I'm assuming this is an Australian publication.)

Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 15:46, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

* Simon Oxwell is listed as Managing Editor, Stephen Dedman as Fiction Editor, and Grant Watson as Art Editor. David Cake, Sandra Norman, and Sarah Xu are also listed as Editors. (For issue 3, David Cake was Non-Fiction Editor.) Anna Hepworth is credited with Production, and Jodie Hunter with Promotions/Publicity.
* Thank you for fixing the note field. (I have had another go at measuring the first three issues, and decided that size doesn't need to be noted for issue 2, since it is A5 size.)
* I have copies of issues 1 to 10 on hand. (There was also an issue 11.) However, I'm thinking of asking Anna Hepworth whether she'd like to check these records and do primary verification.
* Publisher is stated differently in issue 2. In some later issues the variants "Borderlands Publications, Inc" and "Borderlands Publications" occur.
* This is, indeed, an Australian publication with no price information on the covers. It was available via subscription. (I have now entered "A$0" in the price field.)
Thank you. Thomas Bull 04:49, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for the clarifications. When adding publisher credit to ISFDB records, we try to conform to one name when it's possible. So you can drop the "Inc." if most of the ISFDB records of this publisher's output doesn't included it. But keep "Borderlands Press" separate from "Borderlands Publications". They are sufficiently different to maintain a separate ISFDB identity. If you have physical copies of these, don't hesitate to do a verification of the record. As long as the record matches your copy, there's no reason not to. Thanks again. Mhhutchins 17:19, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, one more thing: I may have misled you by placing "A$0" in the price field. From the original description I thought it was a free publication. If it isn't then, the price field should be blanked if there is no stated price yet not a free publication. Add "A$0" only if it is a free Australian publication. I'll make the corrections to the records. Mhhutchins 18:19, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Dating reviews

The dates of reviews should be the date that the review is published, not the date of the book under review. Also, be sure to use a complete date in all ISFDB date fields using the following format: YYYY-MM-DD. If any of the fields are unknown or unstated enter zeros. So a date of May 2012 would be entered "2012-05-00". Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:23, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Okay. Thomas Bull 00:33, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Multi-authored columns

If you create a content record for a column in which there are several works by different authors (such as a review or letter column), you should credit the column record as by "various", and then credit the individual works by their credited author in separate content records. Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:29, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

In this issue, because all of the reviews were written collaboratively by the two authors, then the column should be credited the same. (And I credited the letters column to "various".) Mhhutchins 04:43, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

ISFDB help says 'Letter columns with embedded editorial responses should be credited to whoever writes the responses, or to "uncredited" if this is not obvious'. Also, we are told to restrict entries for letters to the editor to "significant letters by well-known sf personalities". Thomas Bull 15:02, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Are there "embedded editorial responses" to the letters? And determining whether a letter is "significant" can be subjective. That's why it's basically up to the ISFDB editor to determine how detailed he wants to be when entering or updating a record. I'll bring up both matter for a community discussion. In any case, don't use "N/A" as a credit. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:16, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
The letter column for this issue includes editorial responses to the letters. "N/A" may be appropriate for letter columns without editorial responses. Thomas Bull 23:22, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
As stated above, you shouldn't use "N/A" as an author's credit. It has no meaning in the context of the ISFDB. Thanks. Mhhutchins 00:12, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
If that's so, ISFDB Help may need to be updated to not say 'If a work by its nature has no author or editor, use "N/A"; this applies to unedited letter columns.' Thomas Bull 00:17, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for bringing that section of the help to my attention. If you do a search for the author "n/a" you'll find only two records in the entire database that is currently attributed to that credit. (And neither record has been primary verified.) This points out the relative obscurity of the stated standard, so I'm going to start a discussion to determine why that's the standard when no one actually uses it. Thanks again. Mhhutchins 00:32, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Eidolon, Autumn 1997

Is Sarah Endacott credited as the sole editor on this issue's masthead? Or as a guest editor? Also I removed the "by Sarah Endacott" from the title field of the editorial, unless the piece is actually presented as "Editorial: Guest Editorial by Sarah Endacott by Sarah Endacott". Even "Editorial: Guest Editorial" seems redundant. Perhaps it's just stated as "Guest Editorial" and if so, that's the way it should be entered in the title field of the content record. Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:36, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Sarah Endacott is listed as Guest Editor. Then Richard Scriven, Jonathan Strahan, and Jeremy G. Byrne are listed under "Editorial Committee". Then Stephen Dedman is listed as Associate Editor; Janeen Webb, as Reviews Editor; Shaun Tan, as Art Editor; and Steven Paulsen, as Contributing Editor. Thomas Bull 14:37, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
How is the editorial titled on the page on which it appears? That determines how it should be entered into the database. Mhhutchins 18:16, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
"Editorial" in large capital letters is followed by the line "Guest Editorial by Sarah Endacott" Thomas Bull 23:27, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Then you might consider titling the record "Guest Editorial" and placed into a series titled "Editorial (Eidolon)". You can then add other editorials into the same series. This approach also works with regular columns. For example, in this issue, the editorial would be titled "Not Just Another Decade" and placed in to the "Editorial (Eidolon)" seires. Greg Egan's column would be titled "Quantum Mechanics" and placed into a series titled "Greg Egan's Foundations" and then given as #4 in the series. You could do the same with other columns in the magazine, such as Steven Paulsen's Scoop and Robin Pen's Critical Embuggerance. Placing them into a series organizes the author's summary page, and also allows the user to see all of the appearances of the column on one page. Mhhutchins 00:21, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Can you tell me how to add a title (other than that for a book) to a series, or direct me to documentation for the relevant task(s)? Thomas Bull 00:46, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Sure. Here's a page that you should bookmark if you plan to be around for any extended time. It's a list of links to the help pages for 90% of editing tasks. Here is the page on how to work with series. In these cases, you'll be creating title series, not publication series. In a nutshell, click on the title to go to its title record, then click on "Edit Title Data" under the Editing menu. In the "Series" field enter the name of the series you're adding the title to. If you're creating a new series, be sure to check first to see if there may already a series by that name in the database (using the "Search" function on any db page). If there is, you'll have to disambiguate the name of the new series. In the "Series Num" field, you can enter a whole number if the work has a number, as in the case with the Egan essays. If not, leave the field blank. If you have any more questions about this matter, you can ask here. Any other questions on unrelated matters can be asked in the future at the Help Desk. Mhhutchins 01:21, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Collaborative author/editor credit

Updating a record to change the order in which individuals are credited doesn't affect how they are displayed in the database. I'm not sure how the software's ordering logic works once a record is in the database, but I know it's useless to try to order it according to the publication record. Sorry. Mhhutchins 01:05, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Publication tags

Even though we're in the process of doing away with publication tags, it's best not to change them once they're in the system. It's possible that links to the record have been created using the tag (both internal and external, either from the wiki to the database, or from other websites.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 01:08, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Okay Thomas Bull 01:11, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Eidolon, Winter 1991

Is the name of the author of the review of Velvet Waters in this issue stated in quotation marks? Mhhutchins 15:23, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes Thomas Bull 20:36, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Errors in reviews

According to the Help page, when there is an obvious error in the stated author credit of a book under review, you should make the correction to the canonical name of the author and note the error. I've done that for this record and then manually linked the review to the reviewed book's title record. Mhhutchins 15:29, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Thomas Bull 20:39, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

"The Mars You Have in Me"

We ordinarily don't give author credit within the title field. Unless the actual title is The Mars You Have in Me: Screenplay by Nick Stathopoulos Based on the Short Story by Terry Dowling, you should add the other data in the record's note field. If a title is a duplicate of another by the same author, we disambiguate the title parenthetically. Since this is the only work with this name by Stathopoulos, that would also be unnecessary. Thanks. Mhhutchins 15:34, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Page numbering of content records

I've noticed that you're renumbering the starting page of most short fiction pieces, and want to point out that the interior art work is considered part of the story. So if the art appears on page 5 and the story starts on page 6, we give the page of the story as 5, too. This standard for page entry can be found here. Mhhutchins 15:39, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

The standard talks about the table of contents listing the story as starting on the page with the artwork. If the art appears on page 5 and the story appears on page 6, and the table of contents says the story begins on page 6, should the story be listed as starting on page 5? Thomas Bull 20:57, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes. The TOC has no bearing on how we record content page numbers. Mhhutchins 22:40, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Please understand my query to be with regard to cases where there is no text on the page with the art. Thomas Bull 21:17, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
That's understood. Mhhutchins 22:40, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Please also understand my query to concern cases where the art relates to the story, as opposed to being random artwork. Thomas Bull 21:28, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Also understood. Here's what is stated on the Help page:
Interior art as the first page of a story. If a magazine presents a story with artwork on the first page, but no text from the story, that page should still be counted as the first page unless there is no title, author's name, or other direct evidence that the artwork is part of the presentation of the story. If the table of contents lists the page with the artwork as the first page of the story, then use that page as the page number for the story as well as the artwork. If it is simply a page of artwork, with no text to indicate that it belongs to the story on the succeeding pages, and no indication in the table of contents that it is part of the story, then do not count it as the first page of the story.
In other words: if there is work of art which you are certain is related to the story, even though it appears on a page before the text of the story begins, that page number should be considered the first page of the story. So both the shortfiction and interiorart records are given the same page number in the ISFDB content section. I'm not even sure why the TOC is mentioned in this part of the Help, because it has nothing to do with how the pages of contents are numbered in ISFDB records. Mhhutchins 22:40, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for clarifying that. Thomas Bull 22:49, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Eidolon, Winter 1992

Please check the conflict in titles of the pieces on page 39 of this issue. Mhhutchins 15:41, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. "Matters of Consequence" is the correct title. Thomas Bull 20:42, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
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