User talk:SpanishMill

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Hello, SpanishMill, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Mhhutchins 18:55, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Doubleday edition of The Foundation Trilogy

Please go to the publication record for the Doubleday trade edition of The Foundation Trilogy and click on "Edit This Pub". On the next screen update the Note field to add the gutter code. BTW, a gutter code of "M44" indicates a printing date of October 1982, but the actual publication date would remain as December 1982. Make changes in any of the other fields that don't match your copy of the book. Then submit it for moderation. After that you should do a primary verification of the record (instructions linked in the Welcome section above). You can respond to this message by clicking on the "[edit]" link to the right of the message, entering your response in the dialog box that opens. Remember to add a colon (:) to indent your response from the previous message, and then end your response with four tildes (~~~~) which will sign and date it. Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 19:04, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the speedy response. Yes, I will need to get up to speed on how this site works. I am very glad to have found this site with all of tons of information. So, in regards to my book... is this technically a First Printing or of this edition?SpanishMill 23:15, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
It is the first printing of the first Doubleday trade edition. They had first published it as a Science Fiction Book Club exclusive edition back in 1963, but yours was the first edition which was available in book stores (trade). If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask. Post them under this topic if the questions concern this book. Any questions concerning assistance in updating the database should be asked on the Help Desk page. Click on the plus tab (+) to start a new topic of discussion. Mhhutchins 23:38, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Asking for help

As I said above, you should post questions on the Help Desk. Creating pages like this one will only get you a response from the very few of us who get notifications of every change in the wiki. Asking on the Help Desk page will usually get you a faster answer. (I just happen to be online at the moment you created that page.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 23:55, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, ill stop what im doing and read up more.. just not used to the wiki style at all. SpanishMill 00:07, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Yes, it's different and will take some time getting used to. But you'll get the hang of it before long. Baby steps... Mhhutchins 00:13, 12 February 2013 (UTC)


I've accepted the submission for this record, but have a few questions/comments. Your copy's dustjacket has a different logo, so the one for the trade edition shouldn't be part of this record. Also, where does the number "68-29754" appear in the book? If it's a catalog number, it is ISFDB standard to precede the number with "#". Also, is the publisher that's given on the title page exactly as you give it in this record? Thanks. Mhhutchins 03:25, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

That number is the Library of Congress # that appears on my copyright page. Is it possible to "post" pictures in these threads? The Title page reads...
                An NAL Book
         The World Publishing Company
            New York and Cleveland
The field labeled "ISBN / Catalog #" should only be used for numbers which are clearly identified as the ISBN or the catalog number of pre-ISBN paperbacks. The LCCN (the ISFDB designation for the Library of Congress Catalog/Control Number) should be given in the Note field using this format: "LCCN: 68-29754". You have the option of linking it to the LoC website's record (instructions here). I'll fix the record to let you see what I mean. Mhhutchins 17:48, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
I've made some changes to the record, including removing the link for the cover image. You can upload images that are associated with this book to the ISFDB server. If it's the cover art click on the link "Upload cover scan" and follow the directions. Once the image is uploaded to the server, you have to copy its URL and then update the record by entering that URL in the proper field. If you want to upload, for example, the title page or the copyright page, click on the "Upload file" link under the Toolbox menu of most wiki pages. DO NOT use this link to upload a cover image. That must be done from the publication record. All files uploaded to the ISFDB server must have a license tag attached to it. Using the upload link from the database publication record does this automatically. Using the upload link from the wiki requires you to add the proper the license, which we use to protect ourselves from claims of copyright infringement. If you want to upload a non-cover image file, let me know and I'll step you through it. Mhhutchins 17:59, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
I see that you've uploaded an image of the book showing its spine. I've linked this in the Note field of the record, because we normally only link full images of the cover in the Image URL field of the publication record. Feel free to do that by clicking on the record's "Upload cover scan" link. Mhhutchins 18:07, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

The 12th Day

Thanks for adding this record to the database. I've made a few changes.

  • The link to an image file on an outside website had to be removed. We can only link to sites which have given us permission to do so. (Here's the list.) If you have a copy of the cover (front only) on your hard drive (or can scan it), you can upload it to the ISFDB server using the "Upload cover scan" link on the publication record. Once the file has been uploaded, copy its URL and then update the pub record with the link to the cover image.
  • The HTML unnumbered list wasn't closed, so I had to add the tag </ul> at the end.
  • I added a colon after "LCCN" per ISFDB standards.

One last thing. Instead of using the "Add New Nonfiction" function, you should have used the "Add Publication Record to This Title" function which is found on the work's title record page. Using the first function creates a new (duplicate) title record. I've merged it with the existing one.

Thanks again for contributing. Mhhutchins 18:26, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks got it, you'll have do the same changes to the next book I recently added.SpanishMill 22:18, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Add four tildes after your message. Before the message add a colon to the number in the previous message. Thanks. Mhhutchins 20:41, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks SpanishMill 22:18, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

The Stairway to Heaven

This record was accepted but there are a few problems. Please make these changes (in order to get practice for future submissions):

  • Date field: you must have entered the date in a different format, because the system defaulted to "unknown" (0000-00-00). It should be entered as YYYY-MM-DD.
  • "Earth Chronicles" is a title series, not a publication series. You should remove it from the publication and add it to the title record.
  • The page count is missing.
  • There should be a colon after LCCN and before the number.
  • There is no closing HTML tag for the unnumbered list (that's why the metadata runs into the Note field.

I await your submission to make the corrections. Thanks. Mhhutchins 20:47, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, changes madeSpanishMill 22:10, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

The Wars of Gods and Men

You'll have to remove the publication series and number from this record. Here is the help page which explains how to work with series. Mhhutchins 20:49, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

DoneSpanishMill 22:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Sourcing data and verifying records

Whenever you update existing records or create new ones, you should always provide the source of your data. If you are working from a book-in-hand, let the moderator know in the "Note to Moderator" field that you have a copy of the book. Once the submission has been accepted, you should verify the record (help page here). If you are using a secondary source (Amazon, OCLC, Tuck, Locus, Reginald, etc.) you should note that in the record's "Note" field at the time of the submission. Thanks for your cooperation. Mhhutchins 20:52, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Got it. All of my entries thus far have been from personal books in handSpanishMill 22:12, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
When you get a chance, go back and do a primary verification of the records. (Also, when you're adding a signature to a Wiki post, remember to space before it.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 22:34, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Linking uploaded cover image files to the publication record

Thanks for uploading this cover image to the ISFDB wiki. The next step is to link the image file to the record of the book for which this is the cover. As the instructions (step 6) explain:

Once the file has been uploaded, the image's wiki page will appear. In order to get the URL (address) for the image you just uploaded, left click anywhere on the image and copy the URL from your browser's address window. (Or right click on the image and choose "Copy Image Location".) If you're adding a cover image to a pub record, this is the URL which you would enter into the pub record's "Image URL" field.

So once you have the image's URL, go back to the pub record (it's linked on the image's wiki page) and then click the "Edit This Pub" link under the Editing Tools menu. This opens up an edit page. Under the Publication Metadata section, there's a field labeled "Image URL:" Enter the URL of the image you uploaded into this field, and then click on the "Submit Data" button at the bottom of the page. Once the submission has been moderated the cover image will be linked to the publication record. Thanks for contributing.

BTW, ordinarily we don't upload the entire dustjacket. We only make exceptions for wraparound cover art. Keep that in mind when making future uploads. Thanks again. Mhhutchins 20:56, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I'll retake the pictures of the fronts and get the page number info tomorrow. Thanks SpanishMill 22:16, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Cover image file limits

Files for cover images must not exceed ISFDB standards: no more than 600 pixels high and no more than 150 kb in size. I've resized this image to keep within those limits (it was 958 pixels high). Please keep the standards in mind and resize the files before uploading them to the ISFDB server. Thanks. Mhhutchins 16:51, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

I've resized this file which was originally 1090 pixels high and 259 kb in size. Mhhutchins 16:55, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
And this one which also exceeded in both dimension and size. (You should have received a warning about the files being over 150 kb.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 17:00, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Asimov's Robots and Empire

I'm holding a submission to add a new record for the first edition of this title, because there is already a record in the database. How is your copy different from this one? Thanks. Mhhutchins 21:02, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Should I just add the new info into the notes section then? SpanishMill 21:35, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
If you agree that your copy of the book is the same as the book already in the database, 1) cancel your current submission, 2) go to the current record and click on "Edit This Pub" under the Editing Tools menu, 3) edit the record to add further data and make corrections if there are errors, and 4) submit the change and it will be moderated. Thanks. Mhhutchins 22:48, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Submission to update the current record was accepted. Now click on the link "My Pending Edits" and cancel the submission in the queue. I could easily reject it, but its good for editors to know that they can cancel submissions without moderator involvement. Thanks. Mhhutchins 01:06, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
Don't know where that link is. SpanishMill 01:13, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
Never mind. SpanishMill 01:21, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Zecharia Sitchin

How is a series hierarchy addressed in this case [1] where "Earth Chronicles" should be listed first. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SpanishMill (talkcontribs) .

Questions shouldn't be asked on your own talk page. It's not likely anyone will actually see it. That's why we have several community pages, all linked at the top of the Community Portal page. Each one has a specific purpose. (I saw this message only because I came to look at your response to my previous message.)
To answer your question: there is no way to order the sequence in which series appear on an author's page. The best way to handle this case is to create a super-series and have each of the current series made into sub-series which can be numbered, thus placing them in order within the super-series. I'll do that. (BTW, don't forget to sign your postings.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 01:52, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

The Lost Realms

This record was accepted, but there's a couple of problems one of which was brought to your attention before. You've entered the title series data into the publication series field. (You can only add a title series when the title is in the database, not in the submission that creates the publication record.) Also, the Price field lacks the currency. Please make the corrections and I'll accept the update. Thanks. Mhhutchins 16:58, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

One question: what is the source of the publication date? Your note gives the stated month and year, but you've also given a day in the Date field. Mhhutchins 17:01, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I remember now about the series confused. I have a lot more books from this author to add, I had to create my own spreadsheet and got some additional information direct from publisher sites, including the actual pub dates from HarperCollins and Bear & Company. Both of which essentially printed all newer editions of this author... they contain historical data on each books page. SpanishMill 17:19, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
You can use a secondary source for the Date field if there is no stated date. Otherwise, use the stated date in the Date field. For example, if a book only says it was published in 1990, and there's a reliable secondary source for the actual date of publication, you can give that in the Date field, and give the source for that date in the Note field. This can also be done if there is no stated date of publication at all. But if a book gives a statement of both month and year, only that should be given in the Date field. You have the option of providing a day-date in the Note field and provide the reliable secondary source. Thanks. Mhhutchins 17:33, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
Darn, I hit submit without making those changes on the next one. Will do... SpanishMill 17:44, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Bear & Co. edition of The Lost Realms

I accepted the submission adding this publication, but you used the wrong function to add it to the database. If you'll go to the author's page you'll see two identical titles for the same work. If you'd used the "Add Publication to This Title" function (the link on the work's title page), both of these publication records would have been merged by the system under one title record. (See this guide to determine which function to use to add a publication to the database.) Now you'll have to merge the two title records. Click on the link "Check for Duplicate Titles" on the author's page, and then merge the matching titles that come up on the next page. Mhhutchins 18:54, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

A question: do you have this book? If not, you should give the source for your data in the "Note" field. Any data in the "Note to Moderator" field disappears once the submission has been accepted. Mhhutchins 18:55, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

The first one is the paperback and the second is the hardcover and I used the "Add New Novel" function. SpanishMill 19:32, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
No, actually you used the "Add New Nonfiction" function, when you should have used the "Add Publication to This Title" function, as I explained. So, do you have this book? Mhhutchins 20:18, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
I have a scanned copy SpanishMill 20:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

The Cosmic Code

You did not give a source for your data in this record, only that the "details verified from publisher site" in the Note to Moderator field. If you don't have the book, you should give the source in the Note field (as explained earlier). Mhhutchins 18:59, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Same situation with the record for The End of Days. Also, the publisher field should be "William Morrow / HarperCollins", the current ISFDB designation for this publisher's output. Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:02, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Done...thanks SpanishMill 19:31, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Cover image files

A larger scan would be better, anything up to 600 pixels tall that is no more than 150 kb in size is acceptable. Please consider rescanning the covers and replacing the current files. Thanks. Mhhutchins 17:08, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

sure, I'll re size them. SpanishMill 17:12, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
The one you just replaced (here) exceeds the limits of both standards. It is 861 pixels tall, and 157 kb in size. Please re-read my previous message. Mhhutchins 18:03, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
This one is OK for file size, but the image is too big (792 pixels). Mhhutchins 18:05, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
I'll resize and re-upload them. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:09, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Limits for cover image files

Again, I must ask you to keep within the standards for cover image files. They should not be more than 600 pixels tall. At 971 pixels, this one is much too big. I'll resize it, but any future ones will be deleted without notice. Thanks for cooperating. Mhhutchins 16:34, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Journeys to the Mythical Past

This record was accepted into the database but there are a couple of problems: the ISBN and the price fields are incomplete. (US currency is entered in the format $XX.XX). Please make a submission to update those fields. Thanks. Mhhutchins 16:21, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Done SpanishMill 17:47, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

The Scarlatti Inheritance'

Based on the ISFDB's current inclusion policy (stated here), it would seem that this Robert Ludlum novel would not be eligible for the database. It appears to be an historical political thriller without any apparent speculative elements. If you've read the novel, can you point any aspect of it which would make it eligible? Thanks. Mhhutchins 20:46, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

I read the policy and understood it to be this "Alternate history or alternative reality is a genre of fiction consisting of stories that are set in worlds in which one or more historical events unfolds differently than it did in the real world. It can be variously seen as a sub-genre of literary fiction, science fiction, and historical fiction; different alternate history works may use tropes from any or all of these genres." SpanishMill 21:02, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
An alternate reality story is set in a world in which the historical event has already happened, creating a reality different from our own. A true alternate reality story is not ABOUT the event, but the WORLD which was created from that event. The Man in the High Castle is not about the defeat of the Allied Powers in WWII. Bring the Jubilee is not about the Confederate victory in the US Civil War. Pavane is not about the assassination of Queen Elizabeth I. The Yiddish Policemen's Union is not about the destruction of Israel and a Jewish resettlement in the Alaska Territory. There are surely exceptions to this definition, which I must admit is a somewhat personal definition of the genre.
Is the world of Ludlum's novel different from ours or otherwise have any fantastic elements? Do the events in this novel create a world which differs from our world? From all of the descriptions I've read, it seems to be a typical military/spy thriller based on historic events with no fantastic elements. With this "low-bar" definition, almost all historical fiction would be eligible for the database. (The events in Gone With the Wind really didn't happen, they're only speculative.) I'll remove my hold on the submission and let another moderator handle it. You might want to post a message on the ISFDB:Community Portal page to get more opinions on the work's inclusion. Mhhutchins 22:57, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
I had just put it on hold to raise the same point/question. Since I'm going to be away until Sunday, I will release my hold on it so that someone else can process it if a conclusion about it is reached. --MartyD 10:12, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
I have put it back on hold for now to be on the safe side. Based on reviews, the novel is about a secret (fictional) operation to finance Hitler's regime prior to WWII. Would that be a fair summary? If so, then it would be an example of "secret history" rather than of alternative history. We do have a number of "secret histories" on file, but they tend to be about much larger conspiracies, things like the Knights Templar secretly controlling human history for the last N generations. However, there is no cut and dry rule, so let me start a discussion on the Community Portal. Ahasuerus 06:41, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
A Community Portal discussion was inconclusive, but there was no discernible interest in expanding the definition of "secret history" to include minor deviations from established historical events, so I am afraid I will be rejecting the submission. Sorry about the delay, didn't mean to leave it hanging for over almost week... Ahasuerus 23:35, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Clarke's Rendezvous with Rama

I probably should not have accepted your submission to update this record. The note you added indicates that your copy is a second printing (of the First Edition). I will have to create a new record for the first printing of the First Edition. Unless there is a stated date of publication, you should zero out the date field of the record. Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:50, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Hold the presses. I found this website which has the following statement:

In addition, it has been reported that from 1973 to 1983, HB&J did not use the "A", i.e. "First Edition/ABCD", but instead used "First Edition/BCDE."

Did you have any evidence to support this? I try to see if I can find other books of this period to support this claim. Mhhutchins 04:54, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

That is the same site I used to verify it. And also here...Link. I have been looking for a long time for this book and in my searching I have never seen an example printed the "A" and have found many with just "BCDE" without the "First edition" statement. SpanishMill 13:23, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
This was a similar method used by Random House from the early 1970s to the early 2000s. They would have a number line without a "1", with a "First Edition" statement. The second printing would remove the statement, but keep the same number line. see here, and here. I suppose Harcourt used the same system for awhile. Mhhutchins 19:43, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Divine Encounters

Submission to add this record was accepted, but I had to make several changes to make it conform to ISFDB standards. You entered it into a publication series, when it should have been entered into the existing title series. (This can only be done once the publication record has been accepted into the db, not during the submission which creates the publication record.) I also had to correct the title to standard capitalization rules, and close the HTML in the Note field. Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:14, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Hopefully the next entry goes smoother... Thanks. SpanishMill 04:30, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Your latest submissions

I had to reject your submission to add The Sky People for the reason that you used the wrong function: a clone of a publication auto-merges it with the titles, but in this case the title of the publication differs! To add a new NONFICTION publication and then variant the title to the parent title would have been right (see here for a short introduction when to merge or clone). Please try again, but do change the publisher to one already established and choose a valid Format for the price!

I have put your two other submissions on hold. We usually don't include NONFICTION books that are not related to speculative fiction (by theme or author above the threshold), because we are a database concentrating on FICTION. Please give some comment why these two titles are possibly relevant for ISFDB. Thanks, Stonecreek 07:31, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

After more than one week without response I have rejected your submissions. Please submit again when you just hadn't the time to answer and please contribute also on the speculative fiction side. Stonecreek 10:03, 4 December 2014 (UTC)