User talk:BungalowBarbara

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Note: I get most of my books through the local library system, which is why many of my verifications are "Primary (transient)." If you have a question about one of these, please go ahead and ask. I can always check the book out again, if the library still has it.


Hello, BungalowBarbara, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! --MartyD 11:19, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Sourcing data

All submissions to update records must be sourced. You should provide us with the source for the data you're adding or correcting. If you are working from a copy of the book, you should notify us of that fact in the "Note to Moderator" field. If you are not working from a book-in-hand, you should give the secondary source for your data in the "Note" field of the submission. Your contributions to the database are appreciated, but in order to maintain the integrity of the database, it is important that users believe that every effort has been made to ensure the data is as accurate as it can possibly be. I very much appreciate your cooperation in this matter. Mhhutchins 14:57, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Working with series

I removed the title series data that you gave in the publication series field of this publication. Keep in mind that a title series can only be added to a title record and not a publication record, so if you're entering a new title into the database, you have to wait until the submission has been accepted. After that, you can update the autogenerated title record to add the title series and any applicable number in the series. For more instructions on how to handle series go here. For a list of links to the most common ISFDB editing tasks go here. (It would be a good idea to bookmark this latter page.) Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 15:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Jane Yolen's The Fairies' Ring

A question about this publication: Are the titles that you've given for the contents exactly as they appear on each of their title pages? (We don't use the table of contents page to create ISFDB records.)

Also, one more trivial matter: when entering a publication's stated LCCN, it's best to enter it in the format "LCCN: XXXXXXX". This will help if sometime in the future we decide to create a separate field for the number; we could do a universal change without having to update each record manually. It also makes it easier for users do a search of the note field for LCCNs. Even if the publication doesn't use the abbreviation "LCCN" that's how it should be entered into the note field. Some books give it in various permutations: "LCC", "LCN", "Library of Congress Catalog Number", "Library of Congress Control Number", etc. Regularizing it to "LCCN: " (followed by the number) is the current standard. Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 23:00, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm holding the submission to make this record into a variant until it's confirmed that the longer title is used on the story's title page. Mhhutchins 00:09, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Author data edits

When updating or adding new author data, the legal name filed should be in the format: LASTNAME, FIRSTNAME MIDDLENAME. Thanks. Mhhutchins 01:03, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Updating titles

Just a heads up: you can change the dates of all those poems in one submission by updating the publication record. Only those that are included in other pubs can't be edited (you'll see they've been greyed out to prevent your from editing them.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 03:09, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Reply: Thank you for all your help and useful tips. BungalowBarbara 03:31, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Map in The Sookie Stackhouse Companion

Hi, and welcome. I have a question about your The Sookie Stackhouse Companion submission (which I accepted): How is the map on xii titled? Does it really have "Map:"? If so, what you did is fine. If not, we don't add qualifying material to titles that way, and it should be changed to omit that. If we needed to disambiguate -- say we had artwork that was a map and artwork that was some other sort of illustration/painting, and we wanted to give them both the same title -- we'd add the disambiguation at the end in parentheses, e.g., "(map)". Here, it doesn't look like disambiguation is needed. If "Map:" isn't in the title and you want to record that it's a map, you can add notes to the title itself by going here and using "Edit Title Data". Thanks, and thank you for contributing. --MartyD 11:09, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Four Dukes and a Devil

A slight contradiction in the note field of this publication record. If the book has a statement about the month of publication, then it's wrong to state that the publication date is from Amazon, unless you give the actual day of publication. Thanks. Mhhutchins 06:06, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

You're right, I will correct this. Thanks. BungalowBarbara 06:57, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Approved, thanks! Ahasuerus 07:13, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Note to Moderator Field

According to the Help page about this field:

  • Do not ask questions of the moderator in this field. You will get a faster response at the Help Desk, and by asking there, you may avoid needless effort and unnecessary submissions.

Now to answer the question you asked in the submission to update this record: Should I put the inner cover into the Contents of this publication?, If it's an entirely different work than the one that appears on the cover, you can create a content record of INTERIORART type:

  • Click the "Edit This Pub" link under the Editing Tools menu.
  • Go down to the Content section of the entry page.
  • Click the "Add Title" button.
  • Complete the appropriate fields (leaving blank those that are not applicable). The title is the title of the work which is being illustrated, usually the name of the publication or a story contained in that publication. Change the entry type to INTERIORART. The artist's name goes in the Author1 field.
  • Submit.

A reminder: please do a primary verification of records that you update when the source of your data is the book itself. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:49, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the information. A question -- what do I use for the page number for an inner cover (apparently the technical term is a "stepback." Is it a "front end paper?"
I plan to do a primary (transient) verification on this title once it is all correct. (I have it out from the library). BungalowBarbara 19:10, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Start from the first numbered page of the book and then count backward. If you get to "1" and you've not reached the page on which the content appears, start from the first page of the book after the cover and count forward until you reach page 1. Add those number of pages to the page count field in brackets, such as "[4]+297". Then give the page number on which the content appeared in brackets, such as "[1]".
A wiki page posting hint: when you're replying to a previously posted message add a colon (:) at the beginning of your message to indent and separate it from the previous message. Continue to add a colon to each successive message. Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:26, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Use of HTML in the Note field

In the submission which updated this record, it appears that you removed the HTML unnumbered list which was used to separate the individual notes. Using the unnumbered list method (<ul><li></ul>) instead of the line break method (<br>) gives a cleaner and more organized look to the note field. It's not mandatory that you use this method, but once in the record, they shouldn't be removed. If you wish to learn how to use this method, here's a link to the help page. Again, you don't have to do this. Using the line break method is OK, but once someone has gone through the effort of using the list method, please work with it. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:59, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

A note concerning excerpts: They aren't given a length designation. They are of SHORTFICTION type, and the length field is left blank. I've removed the length from the excerpts in the above cited record. Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:00, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your information. I really like your attention to detail and appreciate all your help and corrections as I learn my way around the ISFDB. BungalowBarbara 19:08, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. Some would call my "attention to detail" a curse, or at least a mild case of OCD! There's a steep learning curve when you first start editing here, which will become easier the longer you hang around. I hope you'll continue to contribute. Mhhutchins 19:28, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

The Bite Before Christmas

Do the excerpts included in this book appear on unnumbered pages? A bracketed page number would indicate that. Mhhutchins 21:04, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Same situation with this book? Mhhutchins 21:06, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, to both books. The excerpts appear on un-numbered pages at the back of the book. I counted forward from the last numbered page. If I read the Help pages right, that's how it should be done -- correct?

"Death By Dahlia"

At 25 pages in length, are you certain this story is a novella (more than 17.5K words)? Thanks for checking. Mhhutchins 19:50, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Oops! It is a novelette. I must have typed "nv" instead of "nt." Thanks for catching the mistake!


When entering the Library of Congress Control Number in an ISFDB record's note field, it should be in the form "LCCN: XXXXXXXX". It's optional to link it to the LoC website. If so, here is the instructions. Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:59, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Kitty short stories

I've changed the name of the series to "Kitty Short Fiction" because of the varying lengths. Mhhutchins 05:05, 16 November 2012 (UTC)


I've accepted the submission adding this record for an issue of Glamour but made the following changes: added the issue date to the title field (this is standard for all magazines), and changed the editor to "Editors of Glamour" (this is standard for entering nongenre magazines). Feel free to create content records for any interior art that illustrates spec-stories in nongenre magazines), regardless of the artist(s) stature within the spec-fic field. Thanks. Mhhutchins 20:44, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Dates and Amazon

Hi. I accepted your changes to Silver Borne, but I restored the 2010-04-00 date and removed the note about exact date from Amazon. When the book states the publication date, we go with that, even if the book happens to have been available earlier. Amazon is also not a reliable source of dates: The dates there are usually from publisher's pre-announcements and may or may not reflect actual publication dates. So we only use Amazon's date as a last resort (or upon book-less, initial entry where Amazon is the source). --MartyD 12:11, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

A follow-up: I guess it isn't actually stated anywhere that we stick with the date as stated in the book. I started this discussion if you'd like to chime in. --MartyD 19:27, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Fate's Edge

Just in case you didn't get it, thanks for the correction, however, when I clicked cover artist Victoria Vebell's hyperlink I found her entry pretty thin. So, I added her, for what it's worth, web page. If you're into urban fantasy, you might check out the images there, they're unlabled, and see if you can id some more books. Have fun. MLB 11:41, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Using the Amazon date for publications with stated dates

It is ISFDB standard to use the stated date of publication unless there is verifiable secondary evidence that the date is in error. So if a book is month-dated, such as this one, then that is the date which should be entered into the record's publication date field. If the publication is only year-dated, it's OK to use the Amazon date in the record's publication date field, giving the source for the date in the note field. But a stated month-date trumps the Amazon day-date. You always have the option of recording the Amazon day-date in the note field. This may have been brought to your attention earlier, but I'm unsure whether the policy had been fully explained. Thanks. Mhhutchins 03:12, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I knew that was the case when I was entering the publication. In this case, though, someone else had entered the publication with information from Amazon -- including the exact day. So, if I have the actual book in hand, I should overwrite the publication date as I update the publication? Change 2011-10-04 to 2011-10-00, in this case? Including the stories in the anthology as well? Just want to be sure. BungalowBarbara 03:21, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, if you're the first person to do a primary verification feel free to change anything about the record to make it match your copy. If another editor has done a previous primary verification, and there are discrepancies, you should bring it to their attention. Also, if the stories are original to this publication, i.e. this is their first publication, they should have the same date as that of the publication. Mhhutchins 03:56, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

"Hostage to Pleasure", "Slave to Sensation", "Caressed By Ice"

Thanks for creating new records for later (4th, 7th and 8th) printings of these books! I have approved all three submissions, but I had to change the publication dates to "0000-00-00" (which is displayed as "unknown") since we don't know when these printings were published. Unfortunately, most publishers no longer provide this information on the copyright page and it can be hard to find :-( Ahasuerus

I was just wondering about the publication date -- thanks for the clarification. I will keep it in mind for later printings.

Mage Heart cover

Is either this or this the right cover for Mage Heart? --MartyD 01:21, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for finding these! The first one is correct for the paperback version I have, and I will add it to that record. The second one is correct for the hardcover edition. Good work! BungalowBarbara 01:26, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Photographer cover credit

There's precedent for using the photographer's name for cover art credit. In fact, if you do a name search for "Getty Images", you'll find a few as "Xxx Yyy/Getty Images". I personally would not include the "/Getty Images", but at least one other moderator would. Regardless, it's definitely ok to record the photographer in The Silver Moon Elm, if that's the primary art credit. I would have done it for you, but I wasn't sure if "Robberts" with two Bs was accurate or a typo. --MartyD 12:48, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's Robberts with two Bs on the copyright page. Thanks! BungalowBarbara 21:03, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Bronwyn's Bane

I'm holding a submission to update this record, as you did not give a source for the data. If you're working from a book in hand you must state that in the submission's Note to Moderator field. Mhhutchins 05:54, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, yes, it's from a book in hand. BungalowBarbara 05:58, 27 December 2012 (UTC)


You should not create a separate content record for an epilogue unless it has no connection to the actual novel. We don't create content records for parts of novels, regardless of whether they were pre-published in the same or different format. A note in the Note field should suffice. I'll hold the submission for your response. 00:47, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, did not realize that. I have canceled the submission. BungalowBarbara 01:01, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Ace pb of Changing Planes

I will accept the submission to update this record to add the interiorart records, because of the effort you made to create them, but you will now have to merge each of the records with the ones that already exist in the database. In the future you'll find it easier to IMPORT the contents from another record, in this case the Harcourt first edition, which will automatically merge the content records. Thanks. Mhhutchins 22:57, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! I know how to clone a publication -- how do I import contents? --- Never mind, figured it out. There is an "import contents" choice when you are viewing a publication. Live and learn! Thanks for the tip. BungalowBarbara 23:02, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
[After an edit conflict, I was writing this when you edited the comment, and I wasn't going to let it go to waste!]
Go to the publication record which has the contents, write down the publication ID number which follows "cgi?" in your browser's URL. Then go to the record which has no contents and click the "Import Content" link under the Editing Tools menu. On the next screen, enter the record number of the one which has contents. If the page numbers are the same, leave the next box checked. If not, uncheck the box. Click "Import Content". On the next page you can reconcile the page numbers if necessary, and you can add more content if the new pub has content which wasn't included in the old one. Then submit. It's a good idea to bookmark this page. It's a list of the most common ISFDB tasks and links to their help pages. Thanks. Mhhutchins 23:08, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

The Birthday of the World

Can you confirm that the title of this record correctly reflects that given on the book's title page? Other publications of this are title The Birthday of the World and Other Stories. Thanks for checking. Mhhutchins 23:01, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Cover says The Birthday of the World and Other Stories (current cover image is not quite correct, I will see if I can find a better one). However, the title page says "The Birthday of the World" and nothing else. I will add this to the Notes. BungalowBarbara 23:04, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. And I will unmerge the publication from its current title record and make it into a variant. Mhhutchins 23:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Amazon images

You're doing very nice work! Many of the records you have been working on have images from amazon, which in itself is not a problem. Older images, though, have in the URL a bunch of ZZZZZZZs. These images are inherently unstable, in that once Amazon updates their record [a new edition/printing ...] they will show a different image and the one[s] with the ZZZZs disappear! Since you are mostly editing with book-in-hand, could you upload a new image to replace those images with the 'dreaded' ZZZZZZs? The process is quite easy [assuming you have a scanner]. A secondary process is to download the image with the ZZZZZZZs to your computer and then upload the same image to the db [makes it stable as the URL will change]. Cheers! --~ Bill, Bluesman 02:13, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

No scanner. Wish I did have one, $$ right now. I will try your second suggestion. Thanks for the tip! BungalowBarbara 03:01, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
You're welcome. If you use the second option, please note if there is a difference between the image as-is and the book [amazon often uses pre-publication images that lack blurbs/award seals/etc]. --~ Bill, Bluesman 03:10, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
How should I fill in the Source field when uploading the image? Just give the original URL at Amazon? BungalowBarbara 05:47, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
No. Just say "Amazon". But you can save a lot of time and effort to just link the publication record directly to the Amazon image file without uploading it to the ISFDB server. Mhhutchins 22:09, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
I do usually link to the Amazon file. Bluesman was suggesting that because the 'dreaded' LZZZZZ files are not stable -- Amazon may change them -- that I should handle them differently. The first step, obviously, should be to look to see if I can find a different valid image on Amazon & elsewhere, and I know how to do that. If I can't find an alternate, second logical step would be to scan in an image so we have a stable image link -- but I can't do that. BungalowBarbara 22:17, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

OFearna edits

Feel free to notify me of any omissions or errors I've made in verifications -- sometimes the characters blur together when going from book to screen ^-^ I also have accounts at goodreads, librarything, comicbookdb, facebook and lots of other places under the username ofearna, which is my last name (O'Fearna). Enjoy! Ofearna 04:27, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! You can find me on librarything as bungalowbarbara. BungalowBarbara 05:48, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
for e-books, NOOK allows for borrowing and I have several pdf files of those available free for a time free e-books... check my discussion page at the top there's a link for the e-books Susan O'Fearna 22:52, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Incorrectly uploaded cover image

This image wasn't uploaded correctly. Please go to the publication record and use the "Upload Cover Scan" link. If this is the same as the image on Amazon, then it's unnecessary to upload it to the ISFDB server. Just link the record to the Amazon server. (One you've responded to this message, I'll delete the uploaded image.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 21:08, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Same situation with this image. Just follow the directions using the "Upload cover scan" link. But again, if this is not a personal scan, it would be easier just to link to the Amazon image. Mhhutchins 21:11, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

I did use the Upload Cover Scan link on the publication. I am going by a suggestion on my messages page by Bluesman -- maybe you two can talk it over? In the meantime, I will not upload any more images. Thanks! BungalowBarbara 21:13, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
If you look at the two (now three) wiki image pages that I linked to you can see there are a couple of elements missing: 1) they do not have a license which is attached to every image file on the server in which we give a reason why we have the right to host a copyrighted image (without the license tag, charges of copyright infringement can be made); 2) they are not linked back to the publication record, nor are they linked to the artist's category page which is done automatically when you use the Semi-automated Upload Procedure. (Look at this recent upload to see how the image wiki page should appear. Notice the "Fair Use" tags and the link to the publication record.) So if you actually went to this title record and clicked the link titled "Upload new cover scan", and followed the directions, and this is the result, then we have a bigger problem. Can I ask you one favor? Please try again. If it doesn't work this time I'll try to figure out the problem. Thanks. Mhhutchins 22:08, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes, that is what I did -- clicked "Upload new cover scan," chose the file on my hard drive which was a simple "save" of the Amazon link, edited only the Source area. After looking at the Semi-automated Upload Procedure I see that it does tell me to go on to step 6 and beyond on the Direct Upload Procedure. I omitted steps 7-12 of that area -- was that what caused the problem? Maybe the Wiki could be edited slightly to stress that they need to be done. BungalowBarbara 22:26, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
After clicking the "Upload new cover scan" link, do not enter the Amazon link into the open dialog box. That may be what's causing the problem. First click "Choose File", then find the file on your hard drive, and then replace "Scanned by [[User:BungalowBarbara]]" with "Amazon" (just the words, no link). Please try it this way without entering a link. Mhhutchins 22:48, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Something else: the image file MUST be on your hard drive, not just the saved link to the file on Amazon's server. Are you certain the file is on your computer? Mhhutchins 22:51, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I did have a file saved on my hard drive. Did it again: went to Mystic And Rider, clicked "Upload new cover scan," chose the file on my hard drive, replaced the "Scanned by..." bit with "Amazon," clicked Upload File. I got a warning that the file already existed, so I replaced it. I did not do anything else. Here's what happened -- this page. Is that what should have happened? BungalowBarbara 23:01, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
No, that's not right. And without watching you do it step by step I can't tell you what you're doing wrong. So I'm going to take you step by step through the process:
  1. Go to this publication record.
  2. Left click on the link labeled "Upload new cover scan".
  3. Another tab/window should open which has a button labeled "Choose File". Left click on it.
  4. This should open up another window for your computer's hard drive, in which you will choose the file which you wish to upload. Left click on the "Open" button of that screen which will add that file's name after the wiki page's "Choose File" button. In the summary box, replace your name with the source. Because you're replacing an image that's already been named the same as this file, check the box that says "Ignore any warnings" (ordinarily you wouldn't do this, but this is a special case because you're duplicating a filename.) Left click the "Upload file" button.
  5. You're then sent to the new wiki page for the file. If you right click on the image you can save its URL from the pop-up menu, or you can left click on it which leads to the URL of just the image. You'll have to copy the URL from your browser's URL address box.
  6. Go back to the publication record. Left click "Edit This Pub" and then enter the URL in the "Image URL" field of the update. Than submit.

Try this and see if it works. Mhhutchins 23:18, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Followed your steps carefully and exactly. (BTW, you are good at that -- do you write manuals?) Did it come out right? BungalowBarbara 23:25, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Nope. Take a look yourself. I'll upload the image myself and see what happens. Mhhutchins 00:35, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Did it and here is what it looks like. I honestly don't know what you're doing differently but somehow it's now working. Mhhutchins 00:38, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
I've figured it out. You're removing the two final curly brackets }} from the end of the upload template. This makes the template incomplete, so it doesn't work correctly. Try again, but this time make sure that the line line is |Source=Amazon}}. I'm pretty sure that removing those brackets is what caused the problem. Mhhutchins 00:47, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
No need to do another upload. I fixed it by adding the brackets back to the license template. That is a relief! Mhhutchins 00:49, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
I'll fix your earlier uploads, too. Mhhutchins 00:51, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
You know, I noticed those curly brackets, and I could have sworn I was careful NOT to delete them. I figured they were needed. I'll keep my eyes on them on the future. Thank you so much! Glad it was easy to fix! BungalowBarbara 01:18, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

How to get a good URL from Amazon images

There's a way to get a stable URL from Amazon images without having to worry about those "LZZZZZZ" files. There's an explanation here about how to change the URL to get a stable URL. But here it is in a nutshell: remove all characters between the first "dot" and the last "dot" leaving just one before the file extension "jpg".

Here's an example:
Go to the Amazon page for the Ace paperback of Mystic and Rider. Check to see if the image matches your copy. If it does, right click on the bottom portion of the image and a menu will pop up. Click on then "Copy Image URL".

Now go to the publication record to edit it. In the "Image URL" field, paste the URL you just copied. It should look like this:,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

WOW! Isn't that one ugly and long URL?? If you click on that URL this is what you get.

Now fix it by removing every character between the first "dot" and the last, and you'll get this:

Click on that URL and you'll get this lovely image.

Mhhutchins 23:05, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I knew that trick and it's a great one. My bad -- for that particular book, I thought I had already checked to see if there was a non-"LZZZZZ" image available. I hadn't, apparently. I will do that as my first step whenever I verify/update a book with an "LZZZZZ" image in the future. That still doesn't answer the question of what would be the proper procedure if the only image I can find is the LZZZZ one (and yes, I know I can look elsewhere than Amazon and I know how to get to the list of places to look). Thank you so much for all your help with this. I want to do things right and I certainly don't want to get ISDB in trouble for copyright violations. BungalowBarbara 23:12, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Amazon seem to let us get away with it although technically we're not supposed to use such tricks - I guess we send them such a lot of business that means we're mutually assured beneficiaries. But do you own a scanner or digital camera? Because we are getting quite good at providing and storing our own images which should be even more permanent: although I guess as we're totally unfunded (despite the 'donations' link and the user-id we add to Amazon US links that could result in a small kickback) we're a bit more vulnerable to a complete collapse. (We've been kicked off two hosting sites already as our popularity improves, for instance - and I've no idea what would happen if Ahasuerus gafiated or worse.) But using our own images allows us to do things like zoom in on a part of a cover to help identify an artist's signature - see Artist Images and Artist Signature Images. We can do so much more if we host our own pictures - but if you can't provide such don't worry, these are nice-to-haves rather than essentials. BLongley 03:48, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
No scanner. I do have a digital camera and it has a "close-up" mode. Hmm...I will have to experiment with that. Thanks for the suggestion! BungalowBarbara 03:51, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Your patience with US is appreciated too

Thank you, Barbara, for all your patience and corrections as you learn more about the ISFDB. New users are a valuable resource in teaching us old hands where we're lacking, be it poor/out-of-date/misplaced/non-existent help pages or illogical/broken submission software or even just bad netiquette as we try and pull everything together into a wonderful resource. Stick with us and we'll stick with you. BLongley 03:24, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

One specific question for you: you mention your use of "Primary (Transient)" a lot. That's fine, but as the inventor of it I've recently been wondering if it could be improved. Some people seem to use it when they really are keeping the book, they just don't want questions about it. There's no netiquette established over who gets to use the slot - should the oldest get to keep it even if they've moved on, or should it always go to the newest still-enthusiastic editor? It would be easy to add more Transient slots but that might upset people that think the details are already too long. That's fixable with some more user preferences like 'only show Transient Verifications less than X days old", but that would require a bit more coding. I know MY local libraries don't keep books forever, and the average life of a paperback is about 6 loans before they sell or otherwise dispose of it. Library editions are obviously longer-lasting but we don't separate that type very well - and there are nightmares where a MM paperback or TP are rebound in harder covers where the new ISBN is only on the outside but the original ISBN is still on the inside.... sorry, I'm beginning to waffle aren't I? The ONE specific question I want to ask you is, as a self-confessed heavy user of the feature, "What needs fixing or improving with it?" That's really one question, but I don't mind if you come up with even more answers than I just did. You'll probably come up with a range of 'that's so simple to do, why didn't we think of it before?" to "what you want is so obscure and difficult to code that we probably won't pursue it", but we'd rather have your questions and suggestions than nothing. BLongley 03:24, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

I really can't think of much to suggest for "Primary (Transient)" at the moment. I have not come up with very many instances where I would have been the second "Primary (Transient)" verifier so I am not sure it is worth the trouble of allowing more than one. I would put that on the back burner unless you hear otherwise from other users. My main suggestion would be a "see my Transient verifications" feature. That would allow me to double-check recent verifications if I realize there is something I didn't check or do right. BungalowBarbara 03:32, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
That's good feedback, and is actually quite simple to code - after all, it's going to be very similar to the "My Primary Verifications" I invented a while back. And for very similar reasons - I did "My PVs" so that people could easily go back and recheck their early mistakes. I'll see if I can get it done in the next few days, I need to get back in practice with coding (actually, I need to fix my "new" PC up to developer-standard, I've been developing with Cygwin tools under Windows XP and the "new" machine only has Windows 7 on). So don't hold your breath, but do continue to think of ideas like this! BLongley 03:57, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! I think I remember something about Windows 7 Pro being able to deal with old Windows XP programs, maybe? I'm more of a Mac person myself. Thank you and very best wishes for improving health. BungalowBarbara 04:04, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for remembering my health issues - mentally I am so much better than I have been in years (bloody Prozac, die, die, die!) but I do need to work on my physical health now. Not while it's this cold and icy though, I'd probably fall over even more easily and this time I'd be risking hypothermia before the ambulance got to me. I'm going to hibernate till my next doctor's appointment I think. BLongley 07:09, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Re Windows 7: I think I only have Home or Basic edition, although ironically it's definitely got MS Office Enterprise edition on. (Don't tell Microsoft, at the price I paid for the entire system I'm sure at least some of the software is illegally pirated.) But I have no intention of using some of it - although I'm a fan of better documentation and diagrams we can't upload Powerpoint Presentations or MS-Word Docs here for instance. ("Yet", I hope, but I'm waiting on someone else to fix that.) BLongley 07:09, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Noting the first publication...

...isn't necessary if there is already a record for the publication in the database. This can be logically deduced by the dates. The only exception would be if a work appeared in the same year in two different un-monthed publications. Mhhutchins 04:19, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! And thanks for doing all those title merges for me for the contents of Moscow But Dreaming! BungalowBarbara 04:21, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Use of a colon in a title

When using a colon in a title there should be no space before it, and one space after it. I've adjusted the title of this record. Mhhutchins 00:42, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I copy&pasted it over from another edition without noticing -- I'll correct the other editions of this work too. BungalowBarbara 00:46, 30 January 2013 (UTC) Well, looks like you beat me to it with the corrections. Thanks! BungalowBarbara 00:47, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Word Counter

One of the ISFDB editors wrote a pretty good word count calculator and made it available as a Google doc here. You may need to have a Google account to access it. You will be asked to enter the number of pages, the number of lines per page, and then the number of words in just a few lines for the number of pages that you set. Then it calculates a rough word count, which I've found to be quite accurate. Let me know if you need assistance. Mhhutchins 22:15, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks so much, that will be very helpful! Yes, I do have a Google account. BungalowBarbara 22:20, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Ever After

I've responded to the submission you made to update the page count of this book on the primary verifier's talk page. Mhhutchins 23:12, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

A Turn of Light

Only generic titles, like "Introduction", "Preface", "Afterword", etc. are disambiguated by adding the title of the work. There is no need to add the title to works which have distinct titles, as you did for the content records in this publication. Also, in regard to the record for pages 846-849, we only give the page on which the work begins, not the range of pages. And the ellipsis in the title of the work on page 850 should be entered with spaces between the periods, per ISFDB standards. Thanks. Mhhutchins 22:12, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I will correct these. BungalowBarbara 02:04, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

World of the Drákon

I'm holding your submission to rename this series and place it into a super-series. What is the purpose of creating a super-series? Are there titles in the original series which you'll be relocating? Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

There is a new series, which I had not created -- I've just submitted the edit request to create it. "The Sweetest Dark Trilogy" -- per the author's Web site, her new book "The Sweetest Dark" is part of this new trilogy. It takes place in the Drakon 'verse but is apparently only loosely related to the Drakon Series. BungalowBarbara 04:57, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
I'll accept the submission and let you move the new series into the super-series. Mhhutchins 05:36, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

By the Mountain Bound

Found and added an image that seemed to match the description for [this]. --~ Bill, Bluesman 14:14, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! That's it, exactly! BungalowBarbara 04:12, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Declaration of Courtship

"95 pages in Wild Invitation"?? How is this a synopsis?? --~ Bill, Bluesman 23:48, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Never mind .... lol! --~ Bill, Bluesman 23:49, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I must have canceled the submission just as you were reading it. Sorry about that! BungalowBarbara 23:51, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Heart of Obsidian

I've corrected the date field of this record to match the stated date of publication (June 2013), and moved the actual date of publication (June 4, 2013) to the Note field. Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:00, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

The Guardian series

Hi. I have your proposed reordering of The Guardian series on hold. According to MJP's blog, the three novels are a trilogy, and what we have matches up with the numbers given there (except A Distant Magic should be #3, not #4). I suspect our current numbering may have come from the order of presentation on her website's bookshelf. There's no perfect way to handle this. One suggestion I have is to put the three novels into a "The Guardian Trilogy" subseries, so "The Guardian" would then directly contain the short fiction pieces and that trilogy, and the trilogy would have the internal numbering 1-2-3. You could then order "The Guardian", making the trilogy be #2 (or whatever position is most appropriate) within that. See what you think. I will leave them on hold until you respond (you can cancel them if you want to do it differently). Thanks. --MartyD 11:09, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

I would be happy with removing the number from the novella "The Alchemical Marriange," leaving the numbering the same on and , and changing the number on to 3. That's a common way the ISFDB handles a series with novels and novellas, and it would be fine with me. When I first looked at the series, it was set up with the one novella numbered and the others not, but I have no objection to doing it differently. The Synopsis information will make it clear that "The Alchemical Marriage" is a prequel. Speaking of that, I think I put some Synopsis information into some of the edits, and I don't remember just what it was. And as far as I know, there isn't a way for me to view the details of my Pending Edits. (If there is, please let me know!) So, could you put the synopsis part of the edits through and change the numbering on those pending edits? If not, what do you propose? BungalowBarbara 20:45, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes, you gave a very lovely synopsis on the novella. I will do as you suggest: remove the numbering from the novella, and number the novels 1-3. Thanks. --MartyD 23:13, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Done. See The Guardian. Feel free to change anything that doesn't look right. --MartyD 23:16, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! It looks great. BungalowBarbara 23:47, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Series data and synopses

When adding data to title records, be sure to only add series to the parent record and not the variant record. The system duplicates the display of titles when series data is recorded in both the parent and variant record. It's OK to put synopsis data in a variant record, but it's better in the parent record (and placing it in both is redundant.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 03:11, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I wasn't aware of this. Will keep it in mind. BungalowBarbara 03:22, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Dark Symphony

Please confirm the ISBN given in this record. The number given is not a valid ISBN. Also, by this time most publishers were using ISBN-13s. Thanks for checking. Mhhutchins 22:11, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for catching this! ISBN as shown on copyright page is 978-0-515-14417-8. I can't read ISBN on back cover, it is covered with a seller's label with code 0051514417 which has been laminated over and can't be removed. Holding back cover up to light, it looks like actual ISBN on back cover is 13 digits. Let's use that one. Sorry for the mistake. BungalowBarbara 22:21, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Dark Melody

Re this record: I found a scan of the cover which is closer to how you described it. Is this the same as your copy? Mhhutchins 04:32, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's it! Thanks! BungalowBarbara 04:47, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Cover image file size limits

This file far exceeds the ISFDB standards: no more than 600 pixels tall (it's 1122 pixels), and no more than 150 kb in size (it's 334 kb). I can resize it to the proper standards and replace the current file, if you wish, or you can do it yourself. Just let me know. Mhhutchins 06:18, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry! I have cropped and resized the image and replaced the current file. BungalowBarbara 06:37, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Dark Desire

Re this publication: bracketed numbers in the page count field indicates that the pages are not numbered (using neither Roman nor Arabic numerals). If they're not numbered and the pages include substantial data (important enough to create a content record for) that number should be entered using Arabic numbers, i.e. "[12]+369". If any one of those 12 pages have a Roman numeral you can determine the total additional page count by counting backward and forward to arrive at the total number of unnumbered pages and enter it into the page count field as "xii+369". If any of those 12 pages have an Arabic numeral, and the pagination starts over at "1" for the main body of the book, then the page count field would be "12+369". Under no scenario can a page count field be "[xii]+369". Thanks for checking. Mhhutchins 01:15, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

None of the pages before the main body of the book are numbered in any way, and the pagination does start at "1" for the main body of the book. There is a "A Letter to My Readers" before numbered page 1, which was not in earlier editions of the book. (It had appeared on the publisher's and author's Web site.) It takes up 3 pages and talks about the writing of the book. I was not sure whether to put it in the contents or not. Right now it is mentioned in Notes. Do you think I should put it in contents as [bp]? Thanks! BungalowBarbara 01:55, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
That is one option (except that it's just "bp", not "[bp]".) Or, my preference, you can count the number of unnumbered pages, and add that number in brackets (using Arabic numbers) to the page count field. If you add a content record for the letter, its starting page should be in bracketed Arabic numerals. Mhhutchins 02:27, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I will correct it. BungalowBarbara 02:31, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Darkness at Dawn

Submission updating this record was accepted but there are a couple of problems. Are the two pieces actually credited as "unknown" or are they just not credited, in which case it should be credited to "uncredited". Also, "bp" as a page designation (meaning "before pagination") should not be bracketed. If you count the unnumbered pages and added them to the page count field, only then should you bracket the derived page number of the unnumbered page on which the piece appears. If you choose not to add the unnumbered pages in the page count field, just use "bp" for any piece which appears before the first numbered page. Mhhutchins 03:56, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, will change to "uncredited" and remove brackets from around "pb" -- thanks. BungalowBarbara 04:23, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Magic Rises

A quick question about Magic Rises, which says "First printing per number line 10—3". Should it say "Third printing per number line 10—3" instead? Ahasuerus 03:29, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it should. Sorry for the mistake. BungalowBarbara 03:31, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
No problem, I have corrected the data and approved the related submission. Thanks for checking! Ahasuerus 03:40, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

"Fictional essays"

Just a note that "fictional essays", i.e. essays written from a point of view within a fictional world, are generally entered as SHORTFICTION rather than ESSAY. The Notes field of The Burning Eye publication record would be one example of how these pieces are usually handled. There are even more extreme cases, e.g. Stanisław Lem wrote more than a dozen "fictional reviews" of non-existent SF books collected in 'Doskonała próżnia'.

Based on the above, I have changed the title type of "Excerpts from A Handbook for Working with Talents, by Sergei Didier" from ESSAY to SHORTFICTION. Keep up the good work! :) Ahasuerus 02:34, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the correction! And thank you for reminding me of Lem's book of fictional reviews -- I read it long ago. Time to send for it from the library again! Let's see, the English translation is "A Perfect Vacuum." And didn't he write a book of fictional introductions to nonexistent books as well? Aha, "One Human Minute." What a brilliant writer he was! BungalowBarbara 02:50, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

I, Vampire

Have replaced Amazon image with a scan of my verified copy in "I, Vampire" Prof beard 13:08, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I don't have a scanner, glad you do! BungalowBarbara 00:38, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

"Hild", by Nicola Griffith

You verified this book, but I don't know if you added the note in the title record that "the characters believe in the supernatural, but there reportedly are not enough SF elements to be genre". However, since the book received a nomination for the Nebula award for best SF novel, I re-classified this from non-genre to genre, and changed the note in the title rec. Chavey 05:49, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

I think that note was already there but am not sure. I took the book out from the library but was not able to finish it. Your change sounds good to me! BungalowBarbara 04:02, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Dave Seel(e)y

Hello, I have put your submission for establishing a pseudonym on hold. Shouldn't it be the other way around: Dave Seely as pseudonym for Dave Seeley? Stonecreek 05:03, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, you are correct! I should have read the "Help" page before doing this. I have canceled the submission and will redo it the other way around. BungalowBarbara 05:05, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
Those looked good. One other thing to keep in mind when setting up pseudonyms: Making the pseudonym does not automatically make variants of pseudonym-credited titles to canonical-credited titles, so one has to go make those variants by hand. It's a good habit to do the variants at the same time as doing the pseudonym. I took care of these two, just something to keep in mind for future pseudonyms. Thanks. --MartyD 12:51, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
I didn't realize about the variants -- thanks! I will keep it mind. BungalowBarbara 02:13, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Raising Steam

I added a cover scan to Raising Steam. Bob 00:58, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Angels of Darkness ebook

Re this record: Kindle formatted ebooks do not have pages, so the page count field should remain blank. You can add the print length in the Note field. As far as I know, the only ebook format that has pages are PDF files. Thanks. Mhhutchins 22:32, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

OK, will do. Thanks! BungalowBarbara 22:37, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Re this record: by the same rationale as above, Kindle ebook contents don't have starting pages. You can use the pipe method to order the contents: the first work is entered as "|1", the second as "|2", etc. and the contents will be displayed in the order of their appearance in the ebook, but no page numbers will be displayed. Thanks. Mhhutchins 23:34, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Oooh! I didn't know about the "pipe method!" Excellent! BungalowBarbara 01:08, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Dark Celebration

I responded to your inquiry on the help page, but you've yet to follow up on my comments. This is just a friendly nudge. Thanks. Mhhutchins 23:03, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

ebook of Fantasy

Re this publication record: I removed the publication date, because books in 2002 didn't have ISBN-13s. The listing on the publisher's website is for their current ebook edition, which could have been published any time in the past dozen years. They gave the date of the work's first publication, not necessarily the date of the ebook's first publication. Thanks. Mhhutchins 17:15, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction. I didn't realize they gave the date of first publication in any format. I took a look back at archives of the publisher's site, and found the paperback edition listed on 2005-11-12 with no e-book edition. The next archive was on 2008-11-23 and it shows three e-books, listed separately by format, each with a different ISBN -- none of which match the current ISBN. Plainly this whole e-book thing is more complicated than I realized. Sigh. I will keep it in mind. Thank you!BungalowBarbara 19:58, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
There is no industry standard when it comes to ebooks. There really is no stated publication date and no stated ISBN in most of them. The price could change tomorrow and there'd be no way to know it. In fact, there is practically nothing that a bibliographer can use to determine editions or printing. In this case, because it has an ISBN-13, it can't have been published in 2002, but it's possible that there was a 2002 ebook which had an ISBN-10, or even none at all. Right now, all we can do is just play it by ear, and do the best we can with the scant data that publishers are willing to divulge. I long for the days when you could at least hold something in your hands and know it really existed. Thanks for understanding just how difficult it is when it comes to ebooks. Mhhutchins 20:06, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

"Forked Tongues"

I'm holding a submission to change the title of Forked Tongues to "the Devil's Left Boot" [sic], which is the title of another story by another author in the same anthology. If you didn't intend this change, please cancel the submission. Thanks. Mhhutchins 02:54, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for spotting that! I only meant to change the notes. No idea how I managed to change the title. Glad you caught it. BungalowBarbara 03:38, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Links to restricted data

It's not a good idea to link to data which is in a restricted area of a website. The links you added to the note field of this series is not accessible to the public, and all lead to a log-in page for those who are members. Mhhutchins 00:57, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I understand -- but would like to let people know this information is available. How would you suggest I handle this? Perhaps a link to a non-restricted page on the author's site -- I can probably find one that has links to the members-only area -- and then descriptions of what is in the members-only area? BungalowBarbara 01:00, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
There's already a link to her website. Any interested database user can use that to get to any further information they may need. Mhhutchins 04:48, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Dark Slayer

This ebook: The list price of $25.95 is extremely high, the same as the hardcover edition. Your source for the price (a retailer) may be overstating for their commercial purposes. Amazon lists it as $7.99, which seems to be more likely, since the record is for the Kindle version. Mhhutchins 00:33, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

The price came down after the paperback version was released. I agree it seems high for an initial price, but several sources support it. Here's an archived link on the publisher's site showing the prices being the same as hardcover edition. And here's an archived page showing digital list price as $25.95. Shall I add them to the notes for the ebook? BungalowBarbara 01:18, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
Yes. That would help explain the outrageous price. Thanks. Mhhutchins 03:35, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
Done. BungalowBarbara 04:35, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Unnumbered roman numbered pages?

Re this record: squared brackets around a number indicates that none of the pages in that range are numbered. Since you mention a map being on a roman numbered page, I assume that there is a range of roman numbered pages. If so, they should not be bracketed. What is the last roman numbered page? Mhhutchins 05:27, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

The roman numbering is mentioned on the copyright page when giving artist credit for maps -- but none of the first pages actually have any roman page numbers on them. Maybe I should add that to the notes? BungalowBarbara 20:24, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, that would explain the "unnumbered roman numbered" pages. If you intend to create content records for the maps, their page numbers should also be bracketed. Thanks. Mhhutchins

Maps / floorplans / charts

These should be entered as INTERIORART, not as SHORTFICTION as you did in this publication. Mhhutchins 02:52, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for catching the mistake! Forgot to change it before clicking "submit." BungalowBarbara 04:55, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Dark Symphony ebook ISBN

Can you confirm the ISBN given in this publication? By 2009 all publishers were required to use ISBN-13s. Thanks for checking. Mhhutchins 18:44, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

The copyright page of the ePub & Kindle versions definitely give the ISBN-10. They don't say the actual release date of the ePub version. The release date is only a speculation, see last line of the Notes. I could not find any evidence of ePub format / that ISBN until the end of 2009. Do you want me to add anything to notes? Or do you want to add something? BungalowBarbara 22:37, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Dangerous Women submission

Hi. See your submission of changes to Dangerous Women, which I have on hold. The notes edits look ok, but it also includes content edits that would change the explicit lengths of many of the works to shortfiction (not just the two you mentioned in the notes). I can't tell if you did that or if the latest version of the software has a problem and somehow did it for you. Assuming it's unintentional, would you copy your notes changes, cancel the submission, and resubmit the notes and specific title changes again? And if I'm misunderstanding, just let me know! :) Thanks. --MartyD 13:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much for catching this! I only meant to change the notes, not the lengths. I submitted the change to this publication before all of the length changes were finalized by changes to the individual titles. That must have generated the conflict somehow. I will do as you suggest. Again, thanks. BungalowBarbara 20:57, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

The Face in the Frost

I added a cover scan to The Face in the Frost, which you verify-ed Susan O'Fearna 10:01, 28 June 2015 (UTC)


I assume that the work contained in this publication is less than 40,000 words (otherwise it would be entered as a NOVEL.) If so, please add a SHORTFICTION content record for the contained work. Thanks. Mhhutchins|talk 03:43, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

It's described as a Novella. I have imported the content record (it already existed). BungalowBarbara 04:25, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
I was wondering about this publication. It's looks to read as one story, and at 184 pages, I think it should be marked as a novel. TAWeiss 19:43, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
Taking a second look at it, you've marked it correctly. TAWeiss 19:47, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Variant for Cover: The Quarters Novels: Volume II

Hello, I think there's missing something for this title (but I don't know what it is), as the proposed variant seems to be exactly the same. (I've put your submission on hold). Stonecreek 04:51, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Actually this is an existing variant that I'm trying to get rid of. Variant used to be under alternate name of Jody A. Lee. Copyright page of book gives artist as Jody Lee so I changed it. Now we don't need the variant. I'm not sure exactly how to deal with! 05:26, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
It's shown in somewhat small letters in the Make Variant Screen: To REMOVE a Variant link, enter a record number of 0. That's what I did and then I merged the two title records (and I rejected your initial submission. Hope now all is fine. Stonecreek 10:12, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
Perfect! Thank you. BungalowBarbara 05:50, 19 December 2015 (UTC)


Re the note you added to this publication record: If a book contains both ISBN-10 and ISBN-13, then the ISBN-13 should be recorded in the ISBN field. I went ahead and changed it. Thanks. Mhhutchins|talk 23:45, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! BungalowBarbara 23:54, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Glossaries and other non-fiction material

Hi. You are right, standard ISFDB treatment of a glossary is ESSAY. NONFICTION is only used on book-length works (the equivalent of NOVEL). Anything shorter (the equivalent of SHORTFICTION) is typed as ESSAY, even if it's more list-like than flowing prose. --MartyD 01:37, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Tiger Eye

Well it's official, I'm confused, and I'm glad you understand all of this. All I know is that my copy of Tiger Eye has non-glossed non-stamped lettering. A later printing? MLB 01:46, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

What is needed is a Printing Codes for Dummies. MLB 01:47, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
This publisher didn't use Printing Codes -- so we just have to note any other clues. My notes say I have viewed other copies that were not embossed/metallic on cover but were otherwise identical. I just haven't bothered to enter them in ISFDB yet. Yes, probably later printing. You're welcome to modify the Notes and verify your copy if you want. BungalowBarbara 05:26, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
I entered mine by using the BungalowBarbara's Book Verification Method (tm), that is, I used the book ads in the back of the book and checking out their publication dates. This is how my submission looks after using the BBBVM (tm). ;-) MLB 02:13, 4 September 2016 (UTC)


Coper photograph of this pub is the same as of the paperback edition. --Zapp 13:52, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Zapp! When I look at & Barnes & Noble, they do show the cover as matching the paperback edition. But...when you use the Amazon look-inside or the Barnes & Noble "sample," the actual cover shown is the original one as shown in that record. I also just checked the e-book out from my library again, and both the Kindle and ePub editions still include the original cover in the ebook itself. In Kindle, the new cover showed when I was looking at the contents of "My Library," but the original cover showed when I opened up the ebook. I have added to the Notes for this publication.
If you have an ebook that shows a different cover inside, cool! Does it have any different information on the copyright page? BungalowBarbara 20:54, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Nightingale's Lament

I've replaced the Amazon cover art for Nightingale's Lament with a scan of my copy. Hope that this is OK (It's just that the Amazon copyright statement on some of their images annoys me). --AndyjMo 15:13, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Great! I don't have a scanner. I'm happy when folks find a better image. Thanks. 19:28, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Magic Bleeds

I've replaced the Amazon cover with a scan of my copy and removed the note referencing the difference from the Amazon cover. --AndyjMo 11:54, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! BungalowBarbara 18:32, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Shadowed Souls

Thank you for making such painstaking notes. I changed the publisher to Roc / Penguin since you pointed out that according to the copyright page, Roc / New American Library was not right. --Vasha 19:08, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Valentine's Fall (excerpt)

I've updated the Title page of Valentine's Fall (excerpt) by Lilith Saintcrow to indicate that it is from Chapter 3 of the 2nd novel in the Dante Valentine series (Dead Man Rising). --AndyjMo 13:43, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! That's useful information since the title is not the same as the 2nd novel. Glad you caught that! BungalowBarbara 21:07, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

N/A Marked Primary Verifications

In the following pubs, you have marked a primary verification slot as N/A:

I assume you meant to click verified? If you could update these, it would be appreciated. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 02:52, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Done. Sorry for the delay and thanks for catching these! BungalowBarbara 21:14, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

The Iron Wyrm Affair

Please see this discussion. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 03:21, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

A Strange and Ancient Name

I've replaced the Amazon cover art of A Strange and Ancient Name with a scan of my copy. --AndyjMo 16:01, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! BungalowBarbara 21:15, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

A thanks

I just wanted to thank you for working on paranormal romances -- I don't think anyone else is doing much with those currently. (For my part, my specialty is filling in the contents of anthologies and fiction magazines, especially current ones.) With best wishes, Vasha 16:11, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the thanks! I'm reading them anyway, might as well enter them in ISFDB, was my first thought. Now the project seems to have gotten much larger ;) BungalowBarbara 00:04, 25 March 2017 (UTC)


Added the LCCN to your verified copy of Shifter.MLB 04:49, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

And to your verified copy of Weddings from Hell.MLB 04:49, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Sword And Sorceress XXI

Added the LCCN and the OCLC to your verification of Sword And Sorceress XXI. MLB 03:22, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Fool's Errand

Hello, I've approved your submission for this pub but find the price a bit high ;-). Hauck 05:57, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant to remove the price altogether! Thanks for catching that. BungalowBarbara 05:59, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

The Hanging Tree

You can add your transient verification in The Hanging Tree now with the new system in place :) Annie 23:44, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

And in some of these :) Annie 01:29, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
Very busy with my garden right now. Will work on this -- thanks for letting me know! BungalowBarbara 20:55, 23 June 2017 (EDT)
Done, finally! BungalowBarbara 21:33, 19 October 2017 (EDT)

External identifiers


I am moving the external identifiers in a lot of your PV's publications. If I change anything else, I will post a note here for your information. Annie 19:08, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "external identifiers" -- could you explain or give an example? I'm sure you know what you are doing. Should I be doing something different with future verifications? Thanks. BungalowBarbara 20:57, 23 June 2017 (EDT)
We have a new feature that allows a pre-defined list of external sources (Amazon ASIN, WorldCat, The British Library, LCCN and so on) to be linked only by name. Once they were added, all the existing data had to be moved into these fields so that search by them is possible. Look at this one for example and the section just under notes. So instead of linking to these sources into the Notes field, just select the correct type from the list, add the number and the page will create the link for you automatically once submitted. No need to go back to the books you already verified (unless if you feel like it of course) - they will get migrated with time. But for newly added ones, this makes it easier. For ASINs, this will allow non-ISBN e-books to be submitted by the automation (the way new books with ISBNs are added) once we have all ASINs added and migrated. See an exampla on how a book with an ASIN looks like: here.
Part of the reason to do the change is that links change. This way if WorldCat decides that they want to start using a different format of their links, it will be a single change in the mapping and all will be connected properly as opposed to thousands of links that can be linking any which way. The help page for the new fields is over here. Let me know if that makes sense. Annie 21:06, 23 June 2017 (EDT)

Blood Lines

The cover for Blood Lines was uploaded by Bluesman. You have verified the book as Transient so you probably don't have the actual book any more. My copy of this edition is slightly different - it has a comment attributed to Kay Hooper and not the Midwest Book Review. I was wondering whether the cover was an actual scan of the book or just a copy from Amazon (Amazon's cover has the Midwest Book Review comment). If the cover was from Amazon then I'll replace it, otherwise I will just include a reference to an alternate cover. --AndyjMo 17:28, 27 June 2017 (EDT)

Bluesman says that the cover art was probably from Amazon as he does not own a physical copy. I have therefore replaced the image with a scan of my copy. --AndyjMo 05:59, 28 June 2017 (EDT)
My library system no longer has 1st printing of this book. They do have the 3rd printing & that matches your scanned cover perfectly. Thanks! BungalowBarbara 21:24, 10 November 2017 (EST)


I've replaced the Amazon cover art of Unbinding with a scan of my copy. The only difference is that the B Berkley logo has moved from the bottom right to the left above the Title. --AndyjMo 06:13, 28 June 2017 (EDT)

Took a look at my copy, cover looks great. Thanks! BungalowBarbara 20:40, 20 October 2017 (EDT)

Halfway to the Grave

I’ve replaced the Amazon cover art with a scan of my copy for Halfway to the Grave, the colours look fine on my copy and the old link seems to be invalid. I’ve also added the Copyright statement and moved the OCLC id. --AndyjMo 13:12, 3 September 2017 (EDT)

Thanks! BungalowBarbara 21:20, 10 November 2017 (EST)

Typo alert

In this verified publication of yours, "Kawaku Anansi" should be "Kwaku." Vasha 18:15, 19 September 2017 (EDT)

Thanks! Can't remember if I corrected it or you did. Anyway, it's fixed. BungalowBarbara 01:05, 15 March 2018 (EDT)

E. Godz

Added actual cover scan to 00:34, 27 September 2017 (EDT)

Multiple Transient Verifications

With the change earlier this year in how verifications are implemented, multiple transient verifiers are now supported. The following publications contain notes stating you did a second transient verification:

For each of these, would you mind removing the note and actually verifying the pub? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 22:21, 5 October 2017 (EDT)

Done BungalowBarbara 20:38, 20 October 2017 (EDT)

Allegiance of Honor

The LCCN in the external ID field should be for the pub's edition; not for an another book. I accepted your edit to Allegiance of Honor, but then removed the print LCCN and updated the pub note to reflect that the ebook LCCN is not valid. Feel free to tweak the wording if you wish. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 20:47, 12 November 2017 (EST)

The eBook LCCN does work if you go to main LCC page & put it in search box. I think the format ISFDB uses for the link may not be compatible with secondary (ebook) LCCNs. BungalowBarbara 20:49, 12 November 2017 (EST)
Ah, sorry misunderstood. I updated the pub & am pointing Ahasuerus to this discussion. Let's see if that can be fixed. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 20:57, 12 November 2017 (EST)
Curious. Let's make sure that we are on the same page re: how Library of Congress records handle these secondary numbers. To use this novel as an example, the LOC catalog has a single record for it, . It's associated with the hardcover (ISBN 9781101987766) edition of the book, but the record also has an "Additional formats" field, which reads:
  • Online version: Singh, Nalini, 1977- author. Allegiance of honor First Edition. New York : Berkley Books, 2016 9781101987773 (DLC) 2016006696
where 9781101987773 is the ISBN of the e-book edition which we have on file and 2016006696 is the Library of Congress' internal ID.
If my understanding is correct, then there is no separate LOC record for LOC ID 2016006696 aka ISBN 9781101987773. If you try to access , you'll get an error. Just like OCLC can have a single catalog record for multiple ISBNs, the Library of Congress can have a single record for multiple ISBNs, in this case 9781101987766 (hardcover) and 9781101987773 (ebook).
If so, then the only way to add a LOC link to 9781101987773 is to use the LOC ID (2015050507)of the hardcover edition. Does this match everyone's understanding? Ahasuerus 21:27, 12 November 2017 (EST)

Dates changes

Hello Barbara,

When you are changing publication dates to earlier ones, please check the title dates as well - they may also need adjustment. Otherwise you end up with a chapbook published on 3/12/2009 for example and a story inside that is first published on 4/1/2010. I fixed all titles dates in your current set of updates (the ones I handled anyway) :) Annie 18:25, 13 March 2018 (EDT)

Thank you for the reminder! I'll take a look at my other recent updates. I do try to look at that, but sometimes I forget. Sorry. BungalowBarbara 18:31, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
No worries :) I tend to catch them when moderating or they pop up a report the next day and get fixed anyway - I am just sending reminders now and then when I see more than one in the same day. Annie 18:35, 13 March 2018 (EDT)

The Furthest Station

My turn to change this one. Slight rewrite on the line about the date/month selection. Annie 17:45, 26 April 2018 (EDT)

Great, thanks! BungalowBarbara 01:28, 27 April 2018 (EDT)

Moira Rogers

Hi-- I'd like to consult you about this as the resident PR expert. I see that the Moira Rogers page doesn't really say that it's a writing team and does have a birthdate-- which of the two if either does it belong to, I wonder. Also I'm very surprised that none of their Kit Rocha books is in the DB. Isn't Rocha the better known of their two pseudonyms anyway? If you'd like to make any improvements there, that would be welcome. --Vasha 19:23, 1 May 2018 (EDT)

I have to admit that I have never read either Moira Rogers or Kit Rocha. I'll keep my eyes open, though. BungalowBarbara 00:14, 2 May 2018 (EDT)

Christine Feehan

Hello Barbara,

Would you mind checking this cluster of duplicates. You seem to have PV'd at a lot of the books that contain them (I see a lot of transient ones but if you have a chance to get to the book again, that may work) so if you can check the books and see if they are the same texts (and images), we can do some combining (and for the ones that are definitely different, some notes need to be added). If you do not have access to the books then I guess they need to stay that way - but we will need differentiation :) Thanks! Annie 23:04, 3 May 2018 (EDT)

Thank you for the list! I have done comparisons and taken notes on these, as well as taking screenshots of ebooks. I know that these have evolved along with the series, and changed. I will add notes to these. It may take me a while as I am busy with garden stuff right now -- but I'll get to it. BungalowBarbara 23:13, 3 May 2018 (EDT)
No hurry at all - I just saw them and decided to ping you. Maybe if they are all different, together with the notes, we should add the book names the way we do with Introductions? I guess depends on how much they had changed and if there are any that do need merging. Have fun with the garden -it's the season for that, isn't it? :) Annie 23:26, 3 May 2018 (EDT)
Should be too cold for gardening (I think) so... any chance to look at it again? Thanks! Annie 17:24, 15 November 2018 (EST)

Question about Brief Cases

Hi -- you have a copy of Brief Cases, so how long would you say "Zoo Day" is? The publisher calls it a novella, but at 50 pages or so, it might possibly be a novelette. --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 22:50, 4 August 2018 (EDT)

That's already on my list of "things to do" before I give the book back to the library! Thanks for the reminder. BungalowBarbara 22:55, 4 August 2018 (EDT)

The Purloined Poodle

I added a cover scan for your verified The Purloined Poodle. Bob 17:22, 15 November 2018 (EST)

Karen Memory cover

I just added an actual scan for Karen Memory by Elizabeth Bear of the correct cover at -- can you make sure it matches? Susan O'Fearna 02:30, 28 August 2019 (EDT)

Never after

I just added cover art credit to Never After Susan O'Fearna 19:30, 3 August 2020 (EDT)

The Coyote Road

The Coyote Road now has the actual ebook's cover and credit Susan O'Fearna 03:23, 5 October 2020 (EDT)

Cry Wolf

I added the "non-cover" to Cry Wolf by Patricia Briggs Susan O'Fearna 18:28, 22 October 2020 (EDT)

The Chain of Chance

Hello. Re this I've uploaded a scan taken from the copy I just acquired from Amazon. However my copy (same undated 2nd printing B C D....) does not have a price printed on it. I've retained the price on the record but made a note. Do you know where that price came from ? --Mavmaramis 12:42, 9 September 2021 (EDT)

Bronwyn's Bane

can we correct the cover artist for Bronwyn's Bane? Susan O'Fearna 21:11, 17 February 2022 (EST)