Series talk:Perry Rhodan (US)

Organizing Perry Rhodan by publication vs. chapter

At present PR #6 has separate title records for each chapter/story in the publication. A case could be made that these publications have one story with named chapters. This talk thread is to look at the available evidence in a desire to arrive at a consistent format for the series. --Marc Kupper|talk 23:07, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

The numbering below refers to the publication #

By Chapter

• #6 - The stories are either not connected or very loosely connected.

The connectivity is usually assumed to be writing style of each individual author. Some have time periods and radical scene changes, but each was whole in the original German publication. The first fifty stories, not in order as printed by Ace, comprise the first cycle, and at no point have I seen any story subdivided into subsections. --Dragoondelight 14:10, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Some connectivity loss may also be attributed to translation. Remember character names were changed vice Gucky became Pucky and Reginald Bull became Reginald Bell. This was done to enhance reader affinity to the characters and was truly hated by German readers, even today. --Dragoondelight 14:10, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

• #6 - The stories have their own titles on the page headers.

Given- Marc's copy is the original PR format type, that extended from at least from #6 to #12, at #13 the format changed for chapter headers and at 14 on the header is only the book titles. I have three second printings from #6 to #12. The Two #6 are new format used from #14 till past #90, not like Marc's cover, still kept the chapter heading. As does my #9 second printing (shows second printing ribbon on cover) to my #9 without. My #11 is a solo, but still used the cover format with 2nd printing ribbon and chapter headers. --Dragoondelight 14:10, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Story headers were used in the double story issues #1-5. I only have the new cover format editions, but these reprints (not stated) seem to have retained the interior text material, only changing the cover and occasionally adding cover art credit for Gray Morrow. There should be, though I have not seen it, #1-5 in the same cover format as Marc's #6.

Summary-Chapter headers are only used #6-12. --Dragoondelight 14:10, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Question-The German publishers have only liscenced reproductions of the whole issue, never as short stories. --Dragoondelight 14:10, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Usual consensus is that each issue is a complete story and every one is done by only one author. --Dragoondelight 14:10, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Fact-Ace broke more publishing conventions and created more that it would not continue following than probably any publisher has done. Worse, yet Forrest J. Ackerman, apparently did not really know how to be an editor and often missend crediting properly of copyrighted material. He was an agent, but did not use many conventions of the trade, till much later. The lapses in the series are profound, even to copyright statements as to what is in issues, but really is not there.

Personal opinion-Headers were derived from the original multi-novel issues #1-5, and chapter titles were pressed into that function. #6-12 issues were not re-oriented to normal conventions till #13.--Dragoondelight 14:10, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Exception: To not mix cases the British reprints of #1-39 are done differently than the Ace. Orbit used the Ace novel translation and as far as I can determine no other material from Ace. My Perry Rhodan 13, the only Orbit I have, uses the chapter header system that Ace PR#6-12 used. This needs checking by others with Orbit editions. In any case, the British Orbits are derived from the Ace, and therefore the Orbit standards do not reflect back on the Ace production. Orbit#13 chapter text extras, the chapter numbering, is styled differently, but it retains the same chapter wording on the chapter start page, compared to my Ace#13. --Dragoondelight 14:10, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

By Publication

• #29 - The copyright is for the publication, one additional story that not a PR, and an essay.
• #29 - The page headers are only for A World Gone Mad which is the publication title.
• It appears no one is indexing the chapters by name while many sites are indexing the publications.

After thinking this over for a bit I decided to the title records for the "chapters" that are in #6. --Marc Kupper|talk 06:32, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

My visualization of #6 is above, but my #29 copyright page seems different? I have #29 title story Ace copyright (over) "The Exiles of the Skies" copyright data (over) "The Shortest SF Story Ever Told" copyright data (over) an Wendayne Ackerman monograph copyright data (over) a very general photo courtesy blurb for several differing sources (over) a Dedication Block (Nat Schachner) (over) First Ace printing September 1973. Is this correct to your copy? Page headers are as you say. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 14:19, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Keep in mind that Hall3730 has been working on the Perry Rhodan series for many months, so we'll want to check with him re: his experience first. Ahasuerus 18:11, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

I seem to have created exact duplicate PR#13. Publication:PRRRHDNTHM0000

Publication:PRRRHDNTHM0000 How do I deal with my monster duplicate creations. Under the novel content they all three appear, but otherwise there are only two. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 14:08, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Harry, my #29 matches what you have. Compared to #29, #6's copyright page is very plain and is

The Secret of the Time Vault Copyright ©, 1971, by Ace Books. An Ace Book by arrangement with Arthur Moewig Verlag. All Rights Reserved. (middle of page is blank and at the bottom) Printed in the U.S.A.

There is no secondary copyright/acknowledgments page. The Perryscope essay credits Wendayne (Ackerman) for the translation and the front cover has under the title "The World's greatest space fiction series / by K.H. Scheer and Walter Ernsting". There is an advertisement after page 126 that lists

• 65970 - 60¢ Perry Rhodan #1 Enterprise Stardust by K. -H. Scheer & Walter Ernsting
• 65971 - 60¢ Perry Rhodan #2 The Radiant Dome by K. -H. Scheer & Walter Ernsting
• 65972 - 75¢ Perry Rhodan #3 Galactic Alarm by Kurt Mahr & W. W. Shols (there are two pub records for 65972 and so I linked to the title)
• 65973 - 75¢ Perry Rhodan #4 Invasion From Space by Walter Ernsting & Kurt Mahr
• 65974 - 75¢ Perry Rhodan #5 The Vega Sector by K. -H. Scheer & Kurt Mahr (there is no publication record for 65974 and so I linked to the title.)

Of course, none of the author credits in this ad seem to match what seems to be stated on or in the publications. --Marc Kupper|talk 19:42, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, If that does not clip the dog what does? I have 020-65971, 020-65972, 441-65973, 441-65974 matching the price scheme, but #2 & #3 use a different start code. The real problem is that they also used a different PR cover scheme layout than #6. I am leaning heavily toward there being #!-5 with the 60 cent price and the same numbers. The cover design scheme is that used in #29. Also it would seem very odd for Gray Morrow to have done the initials and skipped it. I have vendor id's of Johnny Bruck on #8 and #13 with the #6 cover scheme. My bet is Johnny Bruck was given the first assignment and did covers up to #13. Ace used them, but at #6's initial print time had a back order on the first five, hence the ad, and grabbed 'Gray Morrow' of the bench and started him on doing covers. My bet is he did reprint covers after the third printing as my #8 and #13 (both have new Ace numbers) are old style with a second printing ribbon on bottom right corner.

Following the ad leads, #7 65976 has the same ad as #6, #8 65977 adds 65975-60c and 65976-60c, both have only one author as all do up to #109/110, start of the small double issues. #9 65978 has no add, #9 second printing banner same cover 95 cent 66109, has Perry Rhodan 95 cent book list with no identification numbers #1-20, second ad of #41-60, both adds 95 cent books, it also says 'first printing 1971 (over) second printing 1974' on copyright page. My #10 65979 has ad with all same as #6 plus 6,7,8.9. (those 60c). My #11, second printing old cover scheme has first/second printing on copyright page as #9 did three one page adds for 95 cent PR's #1-20, #21-40, & #41-60. My #12, old cover scheme #65981, has ad going to #11 with pricing as the others (mostly 60c except #3-5). My #13, old cover scheme 60c #65982, same ad as #12. My #14, new cover scheme, Gray morrow sig, 60c #65983 has with the #12 add. #15, 65984 60c, first time a book states "First Ace printing July, 1972), no add sheets. #16, 65986 75 cent, first ace printing august 1972, no adds, but "Kent spine buster" with Aug 1971 FTC report. Note 65985 was jumped somehow. For everyone's information. Sorry, for the long winded rendition, but you may have started a tracking sequence. Pardon, Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 21:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

My #6 has 441-65975-060 on the spine with the Kent "spine buster" ad citing a Nov'70 FTC report and is © 1971. I had not thought about it last night but it interesting that this is #6 at 60¢ while the ad has #s 3, 4, and 5 at 75¢. I don't know when Ace switched from using the 020 prefix to 441. Another annoyance is that while the essays brethlessly mention the transition to monthly publishing, etc. they never state the month and year. I'm guessing this is a first printing or an exact copy of the first. There's no evidence of a 020-65975. The ad on the last page is coded "17" in the lower-right and is for Robert A. Heinlein books. I checked those and each was printed in 1970 or undated and was reprinted in 1975 under a new catalog #/ISBN. Many of the Heinlein books are advertised at 95¢ with one at 60&cent. The odds are this was a 1971 printing book

You wrote "I have 020-65971, 020-65972, 441-65973, 441-65974 matching the price scheme, but #2 & #3 use a different start code." The ad in #6 does not list the start codes but your message is a good clue that the 020 to 441 switch was done in late 1969 or early 1970 as that's when those PR books came out.

As for cover scheme. There is a later printing of #6 with the "oval" cover. This implies your #5 is a later printing. this page says "concerning the cover art of the early part of this series. It appears that the first printing of ACE PR volumes 6 to 13 used the original German covers for the series instead of Gray Morrow covers. ... The artist on the German covers was Johnny Bruck." I've used this to assign a cover art credit to my #6. This also explains why your #5 has the oval and my #6 is "retro." Here's the original German cover for #12 which got used on my #6. --Marc Kupper|talk 23:09, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

SIX NUMBER SEQUENCE ACE PR The six number PR numbers apparently are derivatives of the Ace algorathim mismatch ISBN's. The last number, so far, early twenties, do not match an ISBN and the final number is not printed/used on the cover of those PR's. They still use 441 over 99999 over 075 etc. I will therefore check such numbers for ISBN compatibility and if that does not work and I match with the five first numbers, I will delete the sixth as apparently it is only significant for catalogue ordering sheets. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:02, 7 January 2009 (UTC)