ISFDB:Help desk/archives/archive 23

From ISFDB
< ISFDB:Help desk‎ | archives
Revision as of 03:33, 19 September 2015 by Nihonjoe (talk | contribs) (archive older)
(diff) ← Older revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
Jump to navigation Jump to search

This is an archive page for the Help Desk. Please do not edit the contents. To start a new discussion, please click here.
This archive includes discussions from June - July 2015.

Archive Quick Links
Archives of old discussions from the Help desk.

1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36

Expanded archive listing


The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night from The Easton Press

I can't find this 17-volume series in the database, so I'm wanting to add it. I'm not sure how to proceed, though, since there are so many different versions of this in the database. Should I enter each volume as a variant of another? If so, which entries would be considered the original works on which to base the variants? Any suggestions? I appreciate any help. Nihonjoe 17:43, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

A nightmare I totally avoided when methodically tracking down online editions of speculative fiction that are in the public domain. There are multiple editions by multiple editors/translators. From Abebooks it appears that the Easton edition is the Sir Richard Francis Burton edition but with 17 volumes instead of 16. According to wikipedia the work was originally published in 16 volumes. Those 16 volumes are also available at Project Gutenberg. As a starting point you can look through the Project Gutenberg volumes to see if the contents correspond with the Easton volumes. Perhaps one of the 17 volumes of the Easton edition contains extra material? There are other moderators who are far more active than I have been recently who may be able to give you better advice about how to proceed at that point. The existing Arabian Nights Entertainments Series is enough to give me nightmares. Note: When you click on the Project Gutenberg link there will be a Bibrec tab. Click on that tab and the notes will contain a link to the next volume.--swfritter 21:04, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
The 17th volume contains the supplemental material as well as an essay about the series. Nihonjoe 21:29, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
So we seem to be comparing apples to apples. Another thing that is important is whether or not you intend to enter all 1001 stories. That would be incredibly ambitious. I see that you are a new editor. Entering data into the ISFDB can be quite complex, perhaps especially in this case. If you have some other less complicated data to enter it might be a good idea to get some experience. Meanwhile I will spend some time figuring out the best way to put the Project Gutenberg versions into the database. Once they are in it may be a relatively simple task to enter the Easton Press pubs. The first of the month is coming up so I will be entering some magazines for April so it might take me a few days to get to this project.--swfritter 00:11, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
New is relative. I have plenty of experience entering things, but wanted input on how others might enter these as they are quite big (as you said, 1001 stories).
I tend to put an entire multi-volume set in as a single publication; it just gets *too* complex otherwise. In general the Arabian Nights Entertainments Series is organized by translator, and they are not viewed as variants of some single source. Since the Easton Press edition is from the Burton translation, go to the Sir Richard Francis Burton translation title, then "Add Publication to This Title", and add it all at once. I use the excuse of the framing story so that I can just view it all as one large novel, because it's far too much work to enter all of the individual stories, and of course usually it's not possible to figure out which stories are in an edition, much less which are in each volume. Chavey 10:58, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
That's a good idea. I will consider this for a few days. Nihonjoe 17:47, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Considering the amount of bibliographic material available elsewhere it seems as though we would be reinventing the wheel if we do any extensive editing in this area. The Arabian Nights Entertainments series could certainly be more readable through the use of sub-series entries. In order to enter the Project Gutenberg pubs, which is my eventual intention, I will still have to enter 16 different pubs. And a sub-series will probably be a good place to put the title data that is generated.--swfritter 18:58, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
I created that series in the first place, and put most of those titles in there, and I certainly wouldn't object if you found a reasonable way to improve its organization via sub-series. I might mention that if you look in the series "Bibliographic Comments", there's a lot more information about the titles there, and which editions have been included so far. Since WorldCat lists well over 5,000 records for "The Arabian Nights", there are limits both to how complete we will ever make this series, and how "organized" we can make it. Chavey 01:21, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

[unindent] I have added a note to the series which hopefully make it easier for the casual user to understand the logic of the series. If there are any clarifications that need to be made, please feel free to modify the note. My ONLY goal is find a logical way to enter the Project Gutenberg volumes so that users will know they exist and so that they can also access them the ISFDB. I can also use the title generated from that process to also provide links to the internet archive scans.--swfritter 19:53, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

I think that note is helpful. The intent of this series (as described in the "Bibliographic Comments" was to exclude those publications which "do very limited extracts from the Arabian Nights (e.g. only "Sinbad")", but other editors have since added many such stories. I wonder if it would help that page to once again discard all of those publications, and put that limitation on the series along with your note. Chavey 03:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

[unindent]After thinking about it, I'm entering each volume separately in order to be able to enter page numbers without confusion. I've submitted three volumes so far, and I'll wait for those to be approved before doing the rest. Nihonjoe 04:03, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

If the individual stories are going to be entered then there needs to be consideration as to whether the pubs should be entered as collections or even as anthologies. I consider them to be adaptations rather than translations so I do not think we need to go the anthology route especially since that could require an insane amount of effort on the part of the moderators. I have not been an active moderator for the past few years but I know how much time and effort such a project can require from the moderators. The active moderators need to come to a consensus as the scope of this project. The Burton editions are of particular significance and entering their contents probably makes sense but the long term consequences of documenting the Arabian Nights canon are daunting.--swfritter 13:33, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
They have all been entered now. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 02:12, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Adding title to publication

I forgot how do I add a title to publication, I have found this help page "http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Getting_Started:Add_Publication_to_Title" however there is no "Add Publication to Title" link on the left bar (as the help page claims). Eg. I am trying to add "What is the Fourth Dimension?" to "Scientific Romances" because by SF-Encyclopedia the publication right now is not complete.

I found that on the publication page I can "Add titles" but surely this will create new titles not use existing ones, right? Qshadow 10:16, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

At publication level and to add a short story or an essay (as I suppose that you want to do), you've got two options : 1) use "Import Content" and enter the text's ID (here 1517771) in the bottom box or 2) use "Edit This Pub", enter the new text (by "Add Title" at "Content" level), it will then have to be merged (if it already exists) during a following phase. Hauck 14:20, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
I've added the other titles to the publication, and other Charles Howard Hinton publications based on data from SFE3 and OCLC. Mhhutchins 16:25, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Hauck and Mhhutchins. Qshadow 17:35, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Why these are not marked as series?

What is the reason that these stories marked as "sequels" in notes, but still series where not created for them? 

"Farewell to Earth" by Donald Wandrei. Sequel to A Race Through Time.
"Awlo of Ulm" by S. P. Meek. Sequel to Submicroscopic.

I am trying to understand the rule of creating or not creating series, just when i thought i almost got it, i saw these examples. (I have more like this). Qshadow 13:41, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

IMHO because nobody took the steps to create them. Some contributors are not particularly interested in taxonomy, don't want to enter endless debates on the relative positions of the texts, or simply don't have the time (it's not a mandatory field). Hauck 14:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
A number of 1920's-1930's stories were originally entered by a contributor who tended to enter series information in the Note field. He had certain medical problems and left the project about 5 years ago. I have updated the affected records. Ahasuerus 17:30, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, I understand now, I will fix if I see such notes. Qshadow 17:36, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Last Series for 30s and 40s

After I checked a few thousands series and fixed what I could, here are the last 30s and 40s series that do not match to Fantlab.ru, that I was unable to figure out if they are true series or not:

Also this one: "Supermind" by A. E. van Vogt is a fixup novel, but since we made series in such cases before (eg: "Rogue Ship"), I think here too we must create a series from the fixup stories. Qshadow 16:55, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately, last I checked there was no consensus re: van Vogt's fixups. It's one thing if a series of related stories is subsequently converted into a novel, but van Vogt has been known to take a bunch of unrelated stories and rewrite them until he had something approximating a novel. We know why he did it -- it kept him afloat in the 1950s when he was spending much of his time on things like Dianetics -- but does it make the original stories part of a series?.. Ahasuerus 03:05, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks a lot, Ahasuerus! Btw, I was really wondered about van Vogt, and his love for fix-ups, this is interesting information. I agree with you, in such case there is no reason for series. Qshadow 09:57, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Last Series for 50s

Moving to 50s (btw 60s we already covered in my first post about series):

  • And the Rock Cried Out" by Ray Bradbury
    • These two stories describe Mexico in the aftermath of a nuclear war, but I don't think they are related otherwise. Is that enough to create a series? I am not sure. Ahasuerus 20:54, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
      • I will reread them and reply later. Qshadow 22:00, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
        • True, not a series. Qshadow 21:02, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
  • The Venusian Chronicles" by Ray Bradbury
    • Another couple of stories with a vaguely common setting, in this case a rain-drenched Venus, but no other connections (that I know of.) Ahasuerus 20:59, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
      • I will reread them and reply later. Qshadow 22:00, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
        • True, not a series. Qshadow 21:02, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Tarkington Perkins" by Fredric Brown
    • The first story was a Brown/Reynolds collaboration, the second one was by Reynolds alone. Confirmed and updated. Ahasuerus 19:30, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Ted Binder" by Murray Leinster
    • Yes, it's a series. Also, the title of the story "Mr. Binder and the Solid Vacuum" (1958) reminded me of the plot of "Jezebel" (1953), so I checked the Russian translation of "Mr. Binder and the Solid Vacuum" available online. It turns out that it's the same story. We'll need to notify Steven H Silver, the maintainer of the Leinster Web site. BTW, the character's name is "Thaddeus" rather than "Ted". Ahasuerus 18:22, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Sam Hall" by Poul Anderson
    • The connection between the stories is rather loose, so I have set them up as a "universe". Ahasuerus 19:23, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
  • The Broken Sword" by Poul Anderson
    • I am not sure it qualifies as a series. To quote a recent review, "[The Demon of Scattery] features a framing device lifted from a minor scene in Anderson’s fine novel The Broken Sword. Skafloc, hero of that novel, and Irish demigod Mananaan MacLir relay the events of The Demon of Scattery to pass the time during a long sea-voyage." I have updated the title record. Ahasuerus 18:40, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
      • Here, I am not sure too. Skafloc is only mentioned as the one that tells the story, but he is not the hero of the story. Qshadow 22:00, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Station in Space" by James E. Gunn
    • This one is kind of complicated. The 5 stories collected in Station in Space form a future history of sorts, but only some of them feature Amos Danton. Perhaps we should have a super-series for "Station in Space" and a sub-series for "Amos Danton"? Ahasuerus 19:15, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
      • This is probably my mistake, I didn't notice that we have these stories already organized in a collection. I usually filter cases like this (FL guys like calling collections "series" if they feel that the stories inside are connected), but on ISFDB we usually stay with "collection" only. I have no preference here, either choice is fine. Qshadow 22:00, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Multivac" by Isaac Asimov
    • The problem with the Multivac stories is that all (?) of them have somewhat different versions of Multivac. Asimov apparently liked the concept and toyed with different approaches to it, but is it really a series? Ahasuerus 20:31, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
      • I think it definitely makes them a series. The main theme and the setting are the same. Better create a loose series than not create at all. Qshadow 22:00, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
        • BTW, I forgot to mention. The "+" before the stories on Fantlab means that they are only remotely connected to the series. Eg. In the Multivac series, the Multivac is only mentioned in the stories with "+". Qshadow 08:54, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
          • OK, I have created a series for the Multivac stories and added the following note: "The ISFDB listing is currently limited to the stories in which Multivac is featured prominently. For other stories where Multivac is only mentioned in passing see the Wikipedia article." Ahasuerus 04:07, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
            • Great! Qshadow 09:17, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

I am almost sure that these are real series. Qshadow 10:22, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Question about the ordering of the Perry Rhodan Universe

Hello to all, I transcribe here the question asked by Wolfram.winklerabout this pub: Perry Rhodan is a German SF series of magazines, at this time exist about 2800 titles (First print). The publisher decided to publish a hardcover version, one book of this version contains the text of 5 - 8 magazine titles. 3 - 13 books are a cycle. The title "Ovaron" is the 4th book of the 7th cycle called "Die Cappins" and is the 48th book of the main series "Perry Rhodan" look here. I don't know where I should place the information about the cycle and cycle#. Short: Main series "Perry Rhodan" #48 -> sub series "Die Cappins" 7th cycle #4-> title "Ovaron". Please give me a tipp, what to do, thanks. Perhaps I should use the field "Notes", but this is not perfect. In ISFDB similar publications appear below Pub. Series: Perry Rhodan, Pub. Series#: 36 like here, but there is no information about the cycle. Perhaps can one of our experts on the subject can provide some clues. Thanks. Hauck 11:15, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Answered on the editor's talk page. Stonecreek 09:22, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Nice, thanks. Hauck 13:23, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

AE Canadian Science Fiction

To Whom It May Concern,

According to SFWA, the current pay rate of AE Canadian Science Fiction meets the requirements for inclusion. I tried to register a story by Preston Grassmann recently, but it was declined.

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Roger M.

I have placed some Notes in a recent submission, currently on hold, to a new discussion on our Rules and Standards page regarding this request for AE's eligibility into the database. I don't know if Pgowen and yourself are one and the same person, however we will inevitably need some input from you to state the case for inclusion in the discussion. Please also sign your comments with four tildes (~) which will automatically add your e-signature. Thanks. PeteYoung 06:54, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Two additional series (for the decades we already did)

I have updated my local Fantlab DB to the latest version and compared to latest ISFDB, and found two new series that folks on Fantlab created in the range (1930-1969):

  • "Dr. Stanislav Slapernarski" by Martin Gardner
    • Confirmed and set up. Ahasuerus 20:16, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
  • "Troas" by Poul Anderson and by Isaac Asimov (see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troas_(fictional_planet) )
    • This one is more complicated. To quote this version of the Wikipedia article about "Question and Answer" (edited by Rtrace, one of our editors):
    • Anderson was approached in 1953 by Twaine Press editor Fletcher Pratt with a story proposal: a scientist would create a world, and then he, Isaac Asimov and James Blish (Asimov thought the third writer might have been Blish's then-wife, Virginia Kidd)[1] would write novellas set in that world. The three novellas would then be published as a book, together with an essay by the scientist who created the scenario. This formula, which Pratt called a Twaine Triplet, had already resulted in the 1952 book The Petrified Planet.
    • I don't think the shared origin of these two stories means that they share the same universe. Similarly, the three stories in The Petrified Planet are currently listed separately and "Uller Uprising" is part of Piper's "Federation" universe. We may want to explain the relationship in Notes, though. Ahasuerus 20:16, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
      • Thanks, I agree. Qshadow 22:23, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

P.S. I remember I also have to give two answers for the 50s series. Qshadow 10:01, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Series for 70s

Moving to the 70s. Remember the "+" usually means the title is "additional" to the core series, it may mean that it is very remotely connected to series, or that it is very connected, but it is not the core title of series, but some additional side story/novel.

  • "John Maine" by Michael G. Coney
    • According to SFE3 and Wikipedia, the links between individual works are tenuous, but I think this listing is reasonably accurate. Ahasuerus 23:29, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
      • Thanks! I am trying to update the FL site to have the same hierarchy now. Qshadow 15:29, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
  • "Finger Pointing Solward" by Donald Kingsbury
    • According to Kingsbury's Web site, Finger Pointing Solward is the title of his "original unpublished novel that takes place about 500 years after Courtship Rite". He calls the universe "Courtship Rite world" in passing. Also, he states that as of the time of the writing (2001), there were only two other published stories set in that universe, "The Cauldron" (an excerpt from Finger Pointing Solward) and Shipwright. I am not sure why the FantLab crew thinks that "To Bring in the Steel" is set in the same universe. Ahasuerus 23:43, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
      • I have asked FL editor to double check this, but I am not sure if he could track back the reason. If he doesn't, it can go to general forum there for discussion, which is probably an overshoot for now. Qshadow 15:29, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
        • Both of them (John Maine & Courtship series) updated/fixed on FL according to your comments, thanks! Qshadow 12:11, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
  • "Jack Martin" by Dennis Etchison
    • According to Smashwords (and Etchison is on Smashwords, so presumably it's accurate) "[the short novel] Shadowman follows Jack Martin into an even deeper darkness in Shadow Bay", but I can't find any evidence that he appears in "It Will Be Here Soon". I have asked one of the primary verifiers to check. Ahasuerus 00:09, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
      • Confirmed and added. Ahasuerus 23:35, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

This one is big, we actually have Imaro series, but FL guys combine Imaro and Dossouye into "Nyumbani" parent series, plus adding to it lots of short stories. It looks like they made a lot of organization work on this one. I decided to put google translate link here, so you could see the comments in brackets:

  • "Nyumbani" by Charles R. Saunders
    • I have created a series for the Dossouye stories and fleshed out the Imaro series based on Saunders's Web site (more digging may be needed.) However, I see no evidence that the two universes are related. Saunders states that the Dossouye stories are set in "an alternate Africa that is not the same as the land Imaro roamed." Ahasuerus 03:08, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
      • What about the other stories, (eg Amma), are they in one of the series? Qshadow 15:29, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
        • Saunders's site lists it as a non-series story. However, I see that another, more extensive bibliography, which was based on a list provided by the author, lists it as "non-series Nyumbani". I'll need to reconcile that list with what we have. Ahasuerus 17:01, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Regards, Qshadow 22:48, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for all the work, much appreciated! Ahasuerus 03:08, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
And thank you, for checking all this! Qshadow 15:29, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Is a novel whose translation got split up into two different publications a SERIAL?

The German edition of David Brin's Brightness Reef has been split up into two publications: Sternenriff and Fremder der fünf Galaxien . I've entered the German titles as NOVEL now, but it just occured to me that it would probably be better to change them to SERIAL. On the other hand I've got the impression that the SERIAL type is intended for magazines only (the help seems a bit ambiguous about that). Is SERIAL ok to use for cases like this? Jens Hitspacebar 11:23, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

You're right, SERIAL is used for magazine publication only. You can use the NOVEL type as you can see in the above page. Hauck 12:26, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. Jens Hitspacebar 12:29, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Series for 80s

Moving to 80s, this time the number of series is pretty large. Btw, the series year (50s, 60s, etc..) means actually the start year of the series, or simply the year of the earliest title.

  • "Federation World" by James White: This one is actually a fixup novel.
  • "Kim Ryan" by Joseph H. Delaney
    • Confirmed and updated. The FantLab team may want to add the novel based on the novella "In the Face of My Enemy" to the series. They also seem to be missing this series. Ahasuerus 04:26, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
  • "Valentina" by Joseph H. Delaney
    • Confirmed and updated. Ahasuerus 04:26, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
  • "Always Coming Home" by Ursula K. Le Guin
  • "Time" by John Brunner
    • Although these two books have the word "Time" in their respective titles, they are unrelated. The first one is about the evolution of an alien species from the dawn of civilization to the space age (no human characters.) The second one is about two time-traveling (well, sort of) humans on Earth. Ahasuerus 23:26, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
  • "The Fortress" by George R. R. Martin
    • I wouldn't call these two stories a series. "The Fortress", written in 1968 and published in 2003, was a very early story with no SF elements. "Under Siege" took the same material and added time travel and other SF elements. I have updated their respective Notes, which hopefully clarifies the relationship. Ahasuerus 23:43, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
  • "Presents of Mind" by Dan Simmons
    • I don't think this is a series. These 4 stories by different writers were originally published in 1985 in the Christmas issue of Mile High Futures, a comics catalog. They apparently share a common theme but are not related otherwise. Ahasuerus 01:46, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
  • "Land of Dreams" by James P. Blaylock
    • Confirmed and updated. Ahasuerus 01:48, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
  • "Pocket Brains" by Rob Chilson
    • Confirmed and updated. Ahasuerus 01:52, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
  • "In the Country of Tattooed Men" by Garry Kilworth
    • In the Country of Tattooed Men is a collection of unrelated stories. Did you, by chance, mean "Triptych", which the FantLab bibliography describes as a series? At this time we list it as a single story, presumably because its components have never appeared separately. Ahasuerus 01:59, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I wanted to ask about the Triptych series, sorry for confusion. Actually two of them we list as separate stories: "Hogfoot Right and Bird-Hands" (82292), "Murderers Walk" (57344). So we possible should create an entry for "The Black Wedding" too, and put them all together in a series if they are connected somehow (are they?). Qshadow 14:15, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying! They are surrealistic pieces and it's hard to tell whether they are set in the same world. I have asked the primary verifier of Other Edens to check the introduction to see if it may make things more clear. Ahasuerus 16:20, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
  • "Lost Souls" by Poppy Z. Brite
    • Updated using the master list posted on the author's Web site. The FantLab list is somewhat different. Ahasuerus 02:40, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
  • "Telemass" by Eric Brown
    • Checked against the mega-list posted on Eric Brown's Web site and updated. Unfortunately, the way the ISFDB software works, a story can be a part of one (and only one) series. "Elegy Perpetuum" was arbitrarily assigned to the "Engineman" series. Ahasuerus 06:32, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I know its a lot, but at least the weekend is coming :) Qshadow 15:58, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll take a look (although weekends mean little when you are retired :-) Ahasuerus 17:03, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Eerie Country

This question is about Eerie Country #1, #2 and #3. This is pretty minor but it bugs me that I don't get what's happening here. For the first three issues the publication titles all are entered with the same format, e.g. Eerie Country, 1, 1976. For #1 and #2 the Title Reference shows in the format Eerie Country, #1 (with the "#') but in the third issue the Title Reference shows as Eerie Country, 3, 1980 (no "#"). If you then look at the Series Bibliography it looks like this. Minor, I know, but it doesn't look right. When I entered #3's title I followed how it had been entered in the first two issues. What am I missing? Thanks, Doug / Vornoff 00:38, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

It seems that somebody edited the respective title entries for the first two issues (for these issues you still have separate title and separate publication entries). To match you have to edit the title for #3. I hope that helps. Christian Stonecreek 03:49, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Christian. I sort of figured the only way to match them up was to do that but I wasn't sure. That always seemed to happen automatically for previous pubs. Doug / Vornoff 04:34, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Illustrations within or at either end of essay titles

I see illustrations, many of them appearing to be of the filler type, within the text area of the essays and sometimes at either end, that are named either with the same name as the essay content title, or sometimes with the name of the publication. I can understand the former when the illustration is part of the logo display on the masthead of the essay, but so many times they don't look like they were drawn for the essay but used as space filler. It looks strange, then, to see them given the title of the essay. Is that just the common practice and is accepted? Or would it be preferred to title them with the name of the publication? I don't have a problem with either way. I'd just like to know which. Also, I've seen full page artwork that just happens to be the page before the essay also given the name of the essay but with no particular relation to the essay. Any advice on this? Thanks, Doug / Vornoff 19:30, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Sorry that no one has responded to this almost week old request for help. There's only one basic rule that needs to be followed in titling INTERIORART content records: it should be titled for the work which it illustrates. If it doesn't illustrate a specific work (fiction or nonfiction) within the publication, then it should be titled for the publication itself. I personally do not create content records for filler illustrations, but some editors are (if I'm being generous) more "enthusiastic" about recording the most minute details of a publication's contents. Even then, they should follow the rule I cite. Mhhutchins 15:22, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you - that clears that up. I guess I've fallen into the "enthusiastic" category lately - I'll try to tone it down some. It may become moot in a bit as I'm rapidly running out of items in my collection that others haven't already edited. It's good, though, because I have run into full-page art that abuts a story where I can't see any relation to it but where others named it as art from the story. Doug / Vornoff 17:45, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguated interiorart content titles

I thought I understood the following situation but I'm beginning to wonder because I've seen things both ways a lot. In the case of, say, multiple interiorart contents for the same story, the practice is to disambiguate using brackets [2], [3] etc. for works by the same artist. I thought this did not apply when there was different artists for the same titled work (that it was automatically disambiguated) - only if you had the same artist. Is this correct? In the case of, say, multiple letters by the same person within the same publication this is also done - but not for letters by different authors even though the title is the same.<br. Is it this:
Space Cadets (March 1964) Joe Blow interiorart
Space Cadets (March 1964) Fred Jones interiorart
Or is it this:
Space Cadets (March 1964) Joe Blow interiorart
Space Cadets (March 1964) [2] Fred Jones interiorart
Thanks for any help. Doug / Vornoff 19:44, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Sorry again for the non-response to your request. The sole purpose of adding the "[2]", "[3]", etc to a title is disambiguation. This means that the title and the artist credit would otherwise be identical. If a work is illustrated by different artists, there is no need to disambiguate, thus no need to add "[2]", "[3]", etc to the title. But if one artist has one illustration and the other artist has two illustrations for the same work, then only the second work by the second artist needs to be disambiguated. Mhhutchins 15:27, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
That's what I thought but I've seen the unnecessary disambiguation so much that I started to doubt what I thought and needed clarity. Thanks for your help, Doug / Vornoff 17:51, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

An omnibus of anthologies

I'm adding an omnibus which collects six anthologies (interesting, I know!), so I'm curious if I enter the individual stories or just the names of each anthology. I'm leaning toward entering the stories. Thanks. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:13, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

I just imported the contents from the individual anthologies. That seemed to be the best way. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:22, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it establishes a link between the pub and all the titles that it includes. Ahasuerus 16:39, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
In this case I think that the whole lot should stay also as a ANTHOLOGY. I tend (perhaps wrongly as per Help) to reserve OMNIBUS to a title containing one NOVEL, particularly in the case of ebooks where none of the components have really (physically) been "published". Hauck 17:35, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Giving a link to the record or at least providing the title and author would really assist us in helping you. Keep this in mind when posting on the wiki. Thanks. Mhhutchins 14:53, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
But you're supposed to be able to read minds. Didn't you get the memo? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 22:25, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
Shh, this is not a secure authorized location! Ahasuerus 00:29, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
As per the last discussion of OMNIBUSes, Template:PublicationFields:PubType was modified to state that "A publication may be classified as an omnibus if it contains multiple works that have previously been published independently, and at least one of them is a NOVEL, ANTHOLOGY, COLLECTION, or NONFICTION". Ahasuerus 16:39, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
I went back through several days' worth of submissions (several hundred of them) and found this record. It should properly be typed as OMNIBUS, and there should be content records for each of the six ANTHOLOGYs which it contains. Otherwise each of the anthologies, this one for example, will only show they've been published once, and that there is no ebook edition. When you update the publication record to OMNIBUS, don't forget to update its title record as well. You will notice that the story length field trick of adding the numbers of the series collected doesn't work for a title typed as ANTHOLOGY. It only works for an OMNIBUS. Mhhutchins 17:00, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
So how do we get it to show the actual content of those six anthologies? The Season One collection isn't necessarily republishing the anthologies, but the content of the anthologies. Also, all of them are already ebooks. Very few titles in that series (and from that publisher) have been published as physical books. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 01:14, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Translation

There are different options to translate following German terms:

Redaktion: editor, editorial staff, ...
Textredaktion: ?
Lektor: reader, editor, ...
Lektorat: editing, copyediting, ...
Illustration: artist, ...
Titelillustration: What's that?
Umschlaggestaltung: artist?

What is the exact translation for these therms? Thanks.--Wolfram.winkler 07:55, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

We may also want to update ISFDB:Foreign Language Abbreviations with this information. Ahasuerus 19:31, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
I can't answer all, but some:
Illustration: same in English: illustration. The "artist" translation you proposed in your question would be an "Illustrator" in German.
Titelillustration: not absolutely sure because I haven't found a clear definition. But there are lots of hints on serveral website: this mean "cover art" and usually states the person who did the cover art (for example: "Titelillustation: Werner Schmidt"). The artist of the "Titelillustration" should therefore be recorded in the "Artist" field.
Umschlaggestaltung: that's cover design, something different than cover art. Important details about the difference between cover design and art in the ISFDB see here.
As for your questions regarding "Redaktion" and "Lektor": I am confused as well by the use of the word "editor" for, it seems, many different things in book production in the English language. I usually do this: if there's a "Herausgeber" (usually in magazines and anthologies) I use that person as the "Editor" (in the "Editor" field for magazine and anthologies, or in the note field for other types). If there's no "Herausgeber" but a "Redaktion" is mentioned on the copyright page (often in novels) I'll record these infos in the note field in the form: "Editor: Name of the editor". I've never recorded the people mentioned as "Lektor" so far and also haven't found a good English translation other than "editor" for it.
Hitspacebar 18:39, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your informations, it is so complicated. Lektor is a person, who reads any text and correct the missspellings and grammatical errors. I've found the therm "Proofreader", it seems to me a good translation.--Wolfram.winkler 11:19, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it's really compilicated. However, a "Lektorat" is often more than just a proofreader. A Lektor often works as a mentor or advisor (Berater) for the authors, tries to find plot holes in the story, and I've read somewhere that there have even been arguments ("Streit") between a Lektor and an author because the Lektor had changed the story the author had written (without asking). "Korrektorat" would be the one doing proofreading only (you sometimes find both terms on a copyright page, for example in books by Golkonda: Jo Walton's Die Stunde der Rotkehlchen has three different persons mentioned on the copyright page: one for "Redaktion", one for "Lektorat" and one for "Korrektur"). I've added several terms to the Foreign Language Abbreviations page. Jens Hitspacebar 15:18, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
It might be a good idea to always enter the German word(s) as well, not only the translation, to avoid misunderstandings. For example: "Editor ('Redaktion'): Name" or "Proofreader ('Korrektorat'): Name". I haven't done that myself so far, only for information like "First German edition ('Deutscher Erstausgabe'), but I think I will start doing it for these terms as well to make to information more precise. Jens Hitspacebar 18:38, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Series < 1930s

We finished all the series that started in 1930-1989, so before we move to the 1990 which is really big, here is the rest of series before 1930s:

Regards, Qshadow 23:20, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Ezines: Perihelion Science Fiction

I have added updated information under the Rules and Standards Discussion page topic concerning inclusion of Perihelion in the database. Thanks! EdPerihelion 16:59, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

How to add a new issue of magazine if its issue grid has been grouped into years?

If a magazine's issues have been grouped into years, like it's been done for Alien Contact Magazine, how do you add a new issue to one of the year's titles? For example to the record for Alien Contact - 1992? I don't see a link "Add publication to this title" which are available for NOVEL title records. Alas, the Help:How_to_add_a_magazine_issue_to_the_magazine's_issue_grid is rather confusing than helping here. Do you just enter the new magazine issue via "Add new magazine" and merge the title records to "Alien Contact - 1992" afterwards? Jens Hitspacebar 14:42, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I usually proceed this way (just be careful at the merging stage). Hauck 14:55, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
Adding the EDITOR record of a periodical into a series automatically displays it in the issue grid for that series. You don't necessarily have to merge it with an annual grouping, but that is recommended for periodicals that are regularly published. (I use the three-or-more issues per year rule.) Mhhutchins 18:52, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Artist F. Plachy

I was in the process of entering an issue of High Adventure featuring "The Mysterious Wu Fang" and was trying to identify the interior artist. The various signatures are "F. Plachy", "Plachy" and "F.P.". Checking online I found two references to an artist "Franz Plachy" on a Boris Wilnitsky fine art catalog and a Heritage Comics auction catalog. The figure of the man in the Wilnitsky catalog is almost identical to one of the men in the interior art for Wu Fang. "Plachy" exists as a name in the ISFDB here and has one credit. From what I found out, is this enough info to link "Franz Plachy", "F. Plachy" and "Plachy" together. Since there is no actual credit in either the existing record or the ones I'm working on, I assume that "Franz Plachy" cannot be a canonical name unless one pops up somewhere. If that is the case, and if the names are deemed linkable, would "Franz Plachy" become the 'legal name' to the canonical? Which of the others "F. Plachy" or "Plachy" would become canonical for the other to be made a pseudonym to? Thanks, Doug / Vornoff 18:32, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

We usually choose the most complete name for lesser-known artists if there isn't an overwhelming number of records given to a shorter form of the name. But in this case, without more records in the database, I would suggest just leaving it as is. Without a more reliable source than just "almost identical", it's best to record the High Adventure piece as "uncredited" and note your supposition and its source. Mhhutchins 19:10, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I can see not adding the "Franz Plachy" name anywhere but just make a note of it. Since "Plachy" exists in the other record, does it by default become the canonical name. If that is so, should I just credit the art in the High Adventure stories to "Plachy", since the signatures are clear and there is no credit? You've told me that if the credit is to be based on a visible artist's signature alone, I should credit it to the canonical name and make a note. Thanks, Doug / Vornoff 19:37, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
That's true. I misunderstood that your identification was based on signatures and not just a similarity to another work. So as I mentioned above use the most complete form of the name, which would be "Franz Plachy", and note that the credits are based on a visible signature. Before you make "Plachy" into a pseudonym of "Franz Plachy" and variant the single record, contact the PV editor to see if his credit is based on a signature. If so, the credit would be changed and a pseudonym and variant would be unnecessary. Mhhutchins 19:45, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
Okay, I've mentioned to him that we have a discussion here so he may show up. I understand what you're saying above. All good except substitute "F. Plachy" for "Franz Plachy" as the former is the most complete of the signatures in the book. "Franz" was the supposition I was making (and will make a note of) but "F. Plachy" is hard data. Thanks again. Doug / Vornoff 19:55, 10 July 2015 (UTC).
I found a "Ferenc Plachy", but he seems to have been more of a fine artist than an illustrator. Do the signatures in High Adventure match the one on this illustration credited to Franz Plachy? Mhhutchins 20:35, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
That's the image I've linked to above. Unfortunately the signature is more flowery than the ones ijn the pulp pages. His "F" is melded with the "P" of "Plachy". The figure of the man, though, is quite similar to the figures in the pulp but, as you say, not enough to be completely sure. Doug / Vornoff 21:36, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
Here's a picture of his signature, if I've done the linking correctly: Plachy sig Doug / Vornoff 22:16, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
The credit for this record is from a signature only and it appears identical to the one Doug posted above, except that there is no "F". It is just the name "Plachy". Since it is just a signature, I've no objection if the credit and canonical name be expanded. My own standard is to go with the canonical name of the artist, unless there is a printed credit giving the name in a different form. In this case, there is nothing but the signature. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 01:46, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm not a handwriting expert, but I could find nothing in common between the two signatures. Before making "Franz" into the parent, we may need a little more evidence. If everyone agrees, I suggest using "F. Plachy" as the canonical name until something more concrete comes along. Mhhutchins 02:02, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

(unindent) It sounds like Ron is comparing the signature on his art record to the one I just linked to, not the "Franz" one, implying we should make the canonical name "F. Plachy", same as what Michael suggests. I'm for it . I'm just sorry that Mr. Plachy has fallen into such utter obscurity with such a paucity of info on him available. Doug / Vornoff 02:28, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
Hold your horses! I think I've found the definitive "Franz Plachy" reference on this website. If you click on the picture it enlarges and you can clearly see the signature is identical to the one I've linked to above. The artwork is credited to Franz Plachy and even gives his birht and death dates. The artwork is recognizably his as well from the dozens of pages I've seen in the work I'm submitting. So, if you all agree, I think that now the canonical name should be "Franz Plachy" and we should enter his dates. Doug / Vornoff 03:18, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Adding Title to Publication

I wanted to add title to publication for The Universe Wreckers, we've compiled the three parts into one novel. Is this possible, or will I need to Add a Novel? I appreciate any assistance you can provide. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ArmChairFiction (talk • contribs) . 22:08, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

The natural thing would seem to be to "Add Publication" to the existing title that collects those stories. It's common to have the same book published by different publishers at different times, and this would seem to be an example of that. Chavey 02:28, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
It would also depend on if the three parts being combined into the one novel were left untouched (meaning they were just stuck together with no further revision), or if they were revised significantly and adapted into the novel. If the former, it should probably be listed as an omnibus. If the latter, it would be a new novel and should have a publication note added that indicates it was adapted from the three other stories/parts. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 04:03, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

"The ForeRunneR" and "Herland"

The 1915 feminist utopia Herland was originally published in 15 installments in the magazine The Forerunner, which I believe that I've entered correctly (albeit without the capitalization, "ForeRunneR" that the magazine itself used). Then, at the end of the year, they collected the 12 issues into a single hardbound book, "The ForeRunneR, Vol. VI", which thus contains the 12 serializations, and hence the first novel. I don't know if I've handled this book correctly. I've entered this as a magazine, so that I could keep it in the same series as the individual volumes, and list that "magazine" as containing the novella. I can imagine an argument that I should leave it as a magazine, but containing those 12 installments as separate content items. I can imagine listing this as an "anthology", which contains only 1 item of genre interest. (I can't quite imagine an argument for listing this as a "novel" or as a "chapterbook".) WorldCat does not list this collected volume separately from the magazine. To see how others list it, here is L.W. Currey's listing for the book, and here is the only other bookstore with a copy -- although this second copy may just be the 12 magazine issues, since it does not specify the hc binding. Chavey 16:46, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Note that there is now a problem with this title, see this report to see what needs to be fixed. Hauck 08:21, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
I see three issues here:
  1. Whether Herland is a novel or novella. A word count from the Gutenberg copy comes out at 53,089 words which would clearly be a novel by our standards.
  2. What title type should be used for the collected volume of the magazine. I've entered several collected magazine volumes and have entered them all as anthologies. While most of the ones I recall are reprints done sometimes decades after the original publication, this one was published closely following the magazine publications and seems closest to what was done with The Forerunner. I don't think of the collected volumes as true periodicals and placing them within the same series as the magazine does funny things to the issue grid (e.g. [1] which also has a separate issue regarding how reprints are typed). In any case, typing these collected volumes as ANTHOLOGY works best in my opinion.
  3. Assuming that the collected magazines are as they were originally presented (this is likely a scan of a prebound copy), I would argue that the collected volume should contain the several SERIAL types rather than than the NOVEL. While strictly outside the stated rules for SERIALs, I feel that these exactly reprint what was in the magazine and the parts remain separate. Though collected in a single book, they are not really presented together as a single novel. An example of where I've handled this situation is in this collected volume which contains the serialized parts of "The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath".
That is how I would have handled this, though I expect others may disagree, especially with #3. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 14:20, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks much. Mike had corrected my error of novella vs. novel. I followed your lead on converting the collected mag to an Anthology, putting in the serial parts instead, and removing it from the magazine series. Chavey 08:49, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Variant covers

I found three variant covers there: http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1761187 But the Jim Burns - Summary Bibliography lists only the first one. What`s the fault? --Zapp 11:58, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

In order to see displays of translated titles or variant titles which have a different "language" (as if art has a language!), you must go to your personal preferences and change the setting. Otherwise it defaults to English and Original (parent) titles being displayed. Go to the Home Page of the ISFDB, and click on the "My Preferences" link (you must be signed in.) On the next page, click on the "My Language Preferences" link and check the "Show translations in all languages". Don't be surprised by how cluttered the author/artist summary pages look. Mhhutchins 15:20, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Cover: Tarzan and the City of Gold

There's something wrong with the above and I'm not sure how to correct it and didn't want to mess it up. The 1961 & 1964 covers by Mortelmans are the same but the 1967, also by Mortelmans is not, yet they show as being the same. I was thinking some kind of unmerge is called for but am not sure. The first ERB-dom interior art was to variant to the first 1961 cover and the second ERB-dom interior art was to variant to the 1967 cover, but both show up here because the cover ISFDB record #'s for the three book cover records are the same. Thanks for any ideas. Doug / Vornoff 04:06, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Click on the "Unmerge Titles" link under the Editing Tools menu. On the next screen, check the box of the 1967 publication. A new title record will be created. You will then need to unvariant the title for ERB-dom reprint and then variant it to the correct title. (Do you know how to unvariant a title record?) You may need to also update the dates of the records. Mhhutchins 04:17, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
OK, I will give it a shot. I believe to unvariant you put a zero in the parent field. Doug / Vornoff 05:39, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Everything looks good. I went ahead and varianted the ERB-dom reprint to the 1967 version. Mhhutchins 06:04, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Display problem with title

I've just entered this story (and its illustration) which has the title "<3/</3". The display of the title drops the last 3 characters and in some cases (e.g. [2]) starts an html link before it is intended. The correct title is still there if I open the edit form for the title. Functionally, everything, including links still work, but the display is certainly sub-optimal. Do we have any method for escaping characters in the data so that they will not be parsed as HTML, which is what I assume is happening here. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 02:00, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

It's a know bug -- see Bug 279. For now, I have "fixed" it by changing the "<"s to "&#60 ;"s. There is a translation table that lets you encode any character. Unfortunately, the "fix" is fragile -- if you edit the title again, you will need to re-enter the HTML value. Ahasuerus 03:25, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I should have thought of that, though I wasn't sure which characters were problematic. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:13, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB:Help_desk/archives/archive_23&oldid=403171"