User talk:Zinnia

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Hello, Zinnia, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Mhhutchins 16:49, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

A Favor for a Fiend

Hello, I've approved your submission with a few changes: 1) added currency symbol (I supposed USD), 2) deleted PubSeriesNum (redondant with SeriesNum), 3) changed format to tp as per dimensions given by amazon. The result is here. Hauck 17:47, 14 February 2017 (UTC)


When submitting author names with initials, they should be entered with a space after the period. So for example, "R.S. Pyne" would be entered as "R. S. Pyne". I have made the necessary corrections in In a Cat's Eye. We do appreciate your submission. ISFDB has some conventions that need learning, but everything should be in the help links in the welcome message above. We hope you will continue to contribute. And please let us know if you have any questions (ISFDB:Help desk is a good resource for asking). -- JLaTondre (talk) 03:12, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes, please have an eye on that. There were some (E.T.A. Hoffmann, for example) whose names had to be corrected for Swords & Steam Short Stories. For this anthology, there now has to be done some merging for previously published fiction. Do you know how it's done? Stonecreek 04:48, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
Couldn't find Stonecreek's talk page to reply, so hope this is another good way to do so. Thanks, Stonecreek, for the info that users will have to be merged. Sorry! I don't know how to do that (and will look on the help pages.) I'll do better next time. Zinnia 01:22, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

The Dragon's Hoard

Hi. I accepted your submission adding The Dragon's Hoard, but I have also found a second submission for what looks like the same anthology, which I have on hold. There are a few differences in the proposed contents, plus some additional page numbers. Are these two different editions of the same book, or two submissions for information about the same book? If the latter, then you should propagate any changes from your other submission into that (and cancel the other submission). If they're different, that's fine, and I will accept the held one. Some of the differences I notice:

  • "When the Next Wind Blows" credited to H. Holt vs. K. I. J Anderson
  • additional "Mosaic" by K. L. J. Anderson on p. 71
  • page numbers for things prior to p. 120

I'm guessing these are the same, and there's a correction to be made to When the Next Wind Blows (plus the addition of "Mosaic")? If that's the case, you can change both, and add the page numbers, by clicking on the publication link I gave at the top and using Edit This Pub. In there, you can work with all of the contents, so supply the page numbers, change the authorship of "When the Next Wind Blows" to H. Holt, and add another content title for "Mosaic". If you need any help, just ask. If my guess is right but you'd rather I made the changes, let me know. Thanks. --MartyD 12:09, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have told you to respond here. The community has settled on keeping entire conversations on one talk page, with the poster responsible for watching for responses. So to answer your follow-up questions:
  • Question, because I did forget Mosaic in the TOC the first time, and entered it at the bottom of the entries when I updated. Is there a problem entering TOC contents out of order? (If so, how do I make it right?...)
No, there is no problem entering them out of order. The display sorts by page number (and has some clever handling for roman-numeral pages that appear before arabic-numeral pages). The page number mechanism also allows you to provide sorting hints (which can be used to override/augment sorting by page numbers and to force sorting in publications that have no page numbers at all).
  • Also: the poem is on an unnumbered page, and it looks as though I've forgotten the page number. Should I make a note of that?
Yes, noting it is on an unnumbered page at location X is a good idea. But you can probably also give it a page number, depending on where it appears. If it's between other numbered pages, you can just give it the appropriate page number (e.g., if there were a page numbered "1", followed by an unnumbered page with the poem, followed by a page numbered "3", you'd just assign it "2"). If it's before the page numbering starts or after the page numbering ends, you can count backward/forward and put the resulting number in brackets (e.g., if the first page number is "9" and the poem appears on an unnumbered page before that, you could use "[8]").
More details and examples are available in Help:Screen:EditPub#Page. Please ask if anything is unclear. Also, don't be afraid to make your best guess and submit a change -- use the Note to the Moderator to explain what you're trying to do and what you're unsure of, and whoever handles the submission will be able to help you out. --MartyD 15:03, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Thanks, Marty. I went ahead and entered the page number for the poem. I think that answers all the questions on this pub. (And it looks like it's been moderated already! I will be glad to put it back on my shelf! (Appreciate all your help. ) Zinnia 18:42, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Swords and Steam

I made some changes to Swords and Steam after you added it. I've been going through all the 2016 short fiction and adding the length of all the stories -- you could've done the same pretty easily since the stories only appearing in this collection are under 10 pages, meaning they're "short story" for sure.

But that wasn't what I wanted to mention. You made new title records for stories that are already in the database, and I merged them. Have you ever tried doing that? How it works is, you go into the title record, and at the bottom of the editing tools, click "Check for Duplicate Titles". It'll bring up a list of titles you can select to merge-- make sure they're really the same, with the same type, and no notes saying "do not merge".

Two ways to add stories that are already in the DB to anthologies: one is to create the anthology, then import titles to it; the second is what I described, make new titles in the anthology contents and then merge. I think the second way is somewhat easier but it can sometimes lead to overlooking existing records.

Hope this helps... --Vasha 01:22, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Swords and Steam Short Stories

Zinnia, You recently verified this 2016 anthology P605588, whose contents list recently includes (page 116):

Undine • (1909) • novella by Baron Friedrich de La Motte Fouqué (trans. of Undine: Eine Erzählung 1811) [as by Friedrich De La Motte Fouque]

Recently one novella in the database is

  • "Undine • (1909) • by Friedrich De La Motte Fouque" (text not identified)

with 6 publications in 4 chapbooks and 2 anthologies. In progress today I unmerge and update as two novellas:

  • Undine • (1909) • by de La Motte Fouqué (translated by W. L. Courtney) T2194459
  • Undine • (2002) • by Friedrich De La Motte Fouque (translated by F. E. Bunnett) T174560

Two of the chapbooks contain the former (1909, 2013) and two contain the latter (2002, 2005), which I might arrange in the database records today.

As yet I don't know that either 1909 or 2002 is the date of the translation, only its first publication that I know to be in the database.

How does the anthology adequately identify its version? (I understand the database does not distinguish d/D or e/é but there are word and hyphen "pseudonyms" for this writer.) --Pwendt|talk 19:10, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Pwendt: Apologies for not responding sooner. I have not been back to the database in a while. Regarding Swords and Steam: I'm looking at the antho now. From the source list in the back of the book, the publisher writes, "Originally published by Hitzig, 1811." I hope this helps. (I'll try to do better about finding reprints when I enter my anthos.) Zinnia 22:23, 7 June 2017 (UTC)Zinnia
I think the question tends more into the direction of the used translation, since we do regard different translations as different titles. Is there any credit for the used translation / the translator? Stonecreek 03:31, 20 April 2018 (EDT)

The Gunpowder Review

Hello, I've approved your submission but had to make some changes to conform to our standards:

  • set the date to "2011-10" as the copyright page states "Published in October 2011".
  • as it's a non-genre magazine, I've changed the EDITOR to "Editors of The Gunpowder Review".
  • I've set the format to tp a bit by default as per amazon data. As you state that you own a copy, you may be able to precise its format better than my guess.
  • added cover artist as per copyright page.
  • uploaded a scan.

The result is here, please take some time to submit more complete/researched submissions in the future. Hauck 04:35, 1 April 2018 (EDT)

Gallery of Curiosities / Curiosities #2

Hi, I had to tweak your submission a bit to fit our standards, especially the magazinical part of it, since we had the previous issue in the database. Please take some time for research on the matter. Thanks, Stonecreek 04:03, 18 April 2018 (EDT)

Thank you for the note! :) I did try searching for the series before I entered, but didn't find anything. Probably because I searched for "Gallery of Curiosities" not a simple "Curiosities." Question? Why isn't the title "Gallery of Curiosities" instead of just "Curiosities" since the cover says "Gallery of..." ? Thanks! Zinnia 12:12, 19 April 2018 (EDT)
I entered the title of Issue #1 as Curiosities because I thought that was correct based on the website. But I could have been mistaken. Since you have the actual issue, you can clarify: What does it say on the masthead above the table of contents, and on the publication statment if there is one ("[Magazine Name] is published by...")? --Vasha 17:46, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

The Pale Leaves


Before I approve the addition, can we first make sure that it is eligible for addition. We add webzines only in a few special cases. See this for more details. So is that just an online webzine? And had it been shortlisted for an award or is it SFWA eligible? A quick look around tells me that it is not but I may be missing something. Annie 14:54, 23 April 2018 (EDT)

Hi Annie. Thanks for pointing out the exclusions to me. I think you're right: this mag should not be included. A few of the authors published there, however, have isfdb records. Should their stories be included in the isfdb? (The "Inclusions" section makes me think so, but I don't know if that's preempted by the "Exclusions" section.) If so, how does one enter a record for a short story? I've looked here, but can't seem to find directions. Thanks! Zinnia 17:47, 23 April 2018 (EDT)
Yes and no - they get included when/if they get published into a publication that is eligible for inclusion (and then we note the first appearance). ISFDB is publication-centric - so we do not chase down what an author may have written, instead we catalog publications based on our ROA. If the story never gets published in a proper publication, it is not added here (at least as things stand now). See the definition of "Published" in the Inclusion section - if they are just on a site, they are not considered published under the ROA (that has nothing to do with it being copyrighted or eligible for awards or anything else - it is just for this DB).
There are a few options: you can add a link to the author page (these usually will have complete lists) to the author record or technically you can add the missing titles in the Author note. But... I am not in favor of the latter - it clutters the page and where do we stop if we start indexing all the fiction on the internet (think Bewildering stories (and similar ones), people's blogs and so on) - being it by adding the stories or noting them?
Sooner or later, we will need to reopen that discussion I suspect (internet publishing had been growing a lot since the ROA was written) but as the things stand now - if a story is not "published" as we define it, it does not get added here - regardless if your name is Stephen King or Joe Nobody.
PS: And yes we have "Internet-based publications which are downloadable as electronic files in any number of ebook formats (ePub, Mobi, PDF, etc).": this is what allows all the ebook magazines to be cataloged - it is the blogs and pure online webzines that are not in scope. If that webzine has an ebook version, even if it is free, it will become eligible under that provision (and yes, I fully realize that these days you can create a Kindle book or a PDF on the fly and technically have an ebook even if the magazine does not provide it. It comes down to intent and scope). :) Annie 18:10, 23 April 2018 (EDT)
Wow! Thank you for taking the time to school me. Lots of good info there. Appreciate all the time you've taken. I'll take your stance and not add any of the titles here since it's out of scope of the db. Please feel free to delete the record (I couldn't figure out how to bring up an unmoderated record)-- and sorry for the trouble! Zinnia 10:36, 24 April 2018 (EDT)
Nothing to delete as it does not get created before approval and I rejected the request after your first response (which is why you could not do anything) so all is cleaned up. Don't give up - there are a lot of things that fall under the ROA and need adding. Thanks for the contribution and sorry that it did not work out this time. Annie 14:14, 24 April 2018 (EDT)

Questions about "Beyond Steampunk"

Hi-- I have a couple queries about Beyond Steampunk.

You didn't put any publication date on it, and I can see why not, since from the publishers' Facebook page it's quite unclear when the book was actually released. Maybe February 22 for the ebook (which is the datSe all the bookseller sites give) and April 16 for the print edition (which is when the publishers said "now available" on Facebook)? Do you have any thoughts? Maybe best to just leave it undated, but at least a note about the date uncertainty should be added to the publication.

Secondly, where does the credit of Elizabeth Kidder as editor come from? She isn't shown in the Amazon preview of the ebook edition.

Thanks for the clarifications. (BTW I have added complete info about first publications to the reprint stories in this anthology.) --Vasha 01:45, 19 May 2018 (EDT)

Hi! Thank you for your help with Beyond Steampunk.
About the date: I'm not certain, and would agree with you (as the experienced editor here) that April 16 is acceptable for the print edition. The copyright page in the paperback states "2018."
I thought I put a note in my entry regarding Elizabeth Kidder: she has a biography in the back of the paperbook under the heading "Editor Bios."
Thank you for completing the reprint data. Can you point me to a help page on how to edit something once you've already submitted it? (I am afraid of creating a duplicate record.) Thank you! Zinnia 20:36, 22 May 2018 (EDT)
You're welcome. As for how to edit, there is a link for that in the upper right corner of pages. To edit a story record, click on the title of the story in the anthology, and on that page, click the Edit link.
The credit for who edited the anthology should be given as it is on the title page - so, only one name. But if we think (because of something like those bios) that another person contributed without being credited, then we make this record into a variant of another record that's by both names. Would you like me to fix that? --Vasha 22:20, 22 May 2018 (EDT)
Yes, please. I've not done that yet. I need to read the pages on how. Thanks! And thanks again for all of your help. Zinnia 20:56, 23 May 2018 (EDT)
The relevant sentences from Help:Screen:NewPub are "If the publication is explicitly credited to an author (or authors) on its title page, use that name (or names)... The intent is that the record made from the publication should reflect what can be found in the publication. If there is external evidence (such as a collection of editorials from a magazine, making it clear who the author was) that identifies the author, then you can add a variant title to that item, using the real name. This will attach the work to the true author's bibliography, without giving incorrect data about what is actually in the source publication." Thus, the publication record should have the editor "Joseph Cadotte" and there should be a note saying that according to bios in the back, additional editorial work was contributed by Elizabeth Kidder. And there will be a matching Title record with just Cadotte. But, since we know that the true editors are Cadotte and Kidder, we create a Title record with both of them listed as editors, and make the Cadotte record a variant of it. That way, when you look at Kidder's page, you will see this anthology there, but it will say "as by Joseph Cadotte."
And here is the help on how to make variants: Help:How_to_record_a_variant_title --Vasha 11:39, 24 May 2018 (EDT)

Undine (Swords and Steam Short Stories)

Hi, You are the permanent verifier of 2016 anthology Swords and Steam Short Stories P605588.
Does it contain this translation of Undine T75365 (unknown date)?

  • Dedication: "Undine, thou image fair and blest, // Since first thy strange mysterious glance, ..."
  • Chapter I: "There was once, it may be now many hundred years ago, a good old fisherman, who was sitting one fine evening before his door, mending his nets. ..."

Or this translation T2652134 (unknown translator, date):

  • Dedication: "Undine! thou fair and lovely sprite, Since first from out an ancient lay I saw gleam forth thy fitful light, How hast thou sung my cares away! ...";
  • Chapter I: "On a beautiful evening, many hundred years ago ..."

[Here this note may be extended.]
Or another? It will help if you give the first lines as above. Thanks. --Pwendt|talk 14:56, 4 December 2019 (EST)