Difference between revisions of "User talk:Rtrace"

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I am drawing your attention to [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal#John_Varley_.2F_Titan_.28map_.26_diagram.29 this topic] on the Community Portal which affects a pub that you have PVd. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:28, 26 September 2022 (EDT)
I am drawing your attention to [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal#John_Varley_.2F_Titan_.28map_.26_diagram.29 this topic] on the Community Portal which affects a pub that you have PVd. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:28, 26 September 2022 (EDT)
== Munchausen ==
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5437296; Do you disagree with anything here; if so, I will fix. Here's the archive copy: https://archive.org/details/12adventuresofce00robb. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 10:41, 29 September 2022 (EDT)

Revision as of 10:41, 29 September 2022


If you're writing to inform me that you've either added a missing COVER IMAGE or NOTES to any of my VERIFIED PUBS, please click HERE and add it to the bottom of the list. A link to the pub record would be appreciated. Once the pub has been reviewed, I'll remove your note from the list. Thanks. Ron (Rtrace)


for older discussions.

Histories of King Kelson - missing Appendices

There are three missing appendix titles in The Bishop's Heir, The King's Justice, and The Quest for Saint Camber. Would you mind if I add them? Phil 10:07, 1 January 2022 (EST)

No concerns at all. Please proceed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:09, 1 January 2022 (EST)

Hejja Cover

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?289474; cover art was re-used for Red Dust (1981), credited to Attila Hejja on SFE. --Username 13:11, 1 January 2022 (EST)

Thanks. Next time, it would be helpful to give the author of the other source or better yet, a link. We have several items with that title, as does SFE. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:08, 1 January 2022 (EST)
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5186432; I made an edit crediting where I found the artist's name; you're the PV so I thought before the edit was approved, which probably wouldn't be any time soon with the way things are going these days, I would let you know first to forestall the usual complaining about not checking with PV first before making any significant changes. Now that you've done it, I guess I can reject my edit, right? --Username 17:45, 1 January 2022 (EST)
You hadn't mentioned that you had submitted and edit. I did check the queue to see if there were edits to something called "Red Dust" but found none. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:50, 1 January 2022 (EST)

Saint Camber and Camber the Heretic

There five missing appendix titles in both Saint Camber and Camber the Heretic. Would you mind if I added them before I PV? Phil 14:40, 2 January 2022 (EST)

I wouldn't mind at all. Please proceed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 15:05, 2 January 2022 (EST)

Katherine Kurtz missing component titles

Would you mind if I add the missing Appendix titles to the following books: The Harrowing of Gwynedd, King Javan's Year, The Bastard Prince, and In the King's Service? I also want to remove the "Volume III of the Heirs of Saint Camber" portion of the the title for this pub of The Bastard Prince to match current ISFDB standards. Thanks! Phil 11:25, 3 January 2022 (EST)

That's fine. Please proceed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:54, 3 January 2022 (EST)

St. Patrick's Gargoyle

Would you mind if I add the missing Afterword on page 231 of St. Patrick's Gargoyle? Phil 08:51, 4 January 2022 (EST)

I wouldn't mind at all. Please add it. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:26, 4 January 2022 (EST)

Lightspeed, June 2015 Special Issue

Hi, Ron. You and I have verified two versions of Lightspeed Issue 61 http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1876076. I'd like to figure out and document what's different about the "Limited Edition" that was distributed at the 2016 Locus Awards. The only difference in our listings are (1) the page count (426 vs 440), (2) "Limited Edition" on the cover of my PV'd, and (3) my pub note about full-color illustrations. Please confirm whether your copy has color illustrations (e.g., in the Artists Gallery), and whether it actually has 14 more page after page 426. If it does have more pages, what's on them? Thanks. Markwood 17:26, 9 January 2022 (EST)

Hi Markwood
The page count for my copy is using the method for counting the number of pages for magazines. See the opening paragraph here, "For magazines, the rule is to use the actual page count - including the cover." The last numbered page is 422 with 10 pages after counting the cover as pages. Before page 1, there are 8 additional pages, including the cover. That's how I got to 440. The Artists Gallery in mine is in black and white. I've actually got an audio version of this issue as well, which I really should add. Hope this helps. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:01, 9 January 2022 (EST)

From the Earth to the Moon and All Around the Moon

You verified this pub against Reginald1/3 and OCLC. The format is given as HC, but OCLC doesn't support or deny this. The other book in the publisher series is tp and a contemporary Burroughs book has a catalogue at the back which states it is paperbound. Any problems if I change this format to 'tp'? ../Doug H 10:27, 14 January 2022 (EST)

That's fine. Reginald has it as paper. I must have missed it when verifying. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:35, 14 January 2022 (EST)

Ring Shout

Hi Ron,

I am about to verify the hardcover of this one and as you have verified the audiobook, I have a few questions:

There is no comma after the "or" on the title page (and Or should start with a capital letter after that ":". I'd think as all subtitles)
Where is the subtitle coming in the audiobook from? There is no title page, the cover does not have it. If they read it as part of the intro, that should be in the notes IMO...

What do you think? Annie 11:17, 14 January 2022 (EST)

First, this isn't precisely a subtitle, but rather an alternate title. And the it is read that way at the beginning of the audio book. There was --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 16:56, 17 January 2022 (EST)this discussion a while back. I standardize alternate titles much like we do with subtitles with the following format: <Main Title>; or, <Alternate Title>. Anecdotally, this is how I see them most often reflected in printed works. Of course, with an audio book, you can't hear the punctuation. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 12:04, 14 January 2022 (EST)
Looks like a subtitle to me on the hardcover and there is no punctuation anywhere on that page... :) But either works so I will add some notes and leave it as is for now. I'd also add a note in the audio book that "The alternative title is not printed on the cover but is read at the beginning o the recording". Any objections? Annie 12:12, 14 January 2022 (EST)
No objections. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 13:06, 14 January 2022 (EST)


http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?767248; Not the same guy as the old horror/ghost writer, but this guy: https://www.jameslaver.net/actor. Also, the cover image seems to be dead. --Username 15:42, 16 January 2022 (EST)

Corrected. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 16:56, 17 January 2022 (EST)

Susan's Demon Cat

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?338771; You recently added these 2 novels, and a note that Reginald says the later novel is a retitling of the earlier. It says on the cover of the later novel "previously published as Demon Cat" (easier to see on Goodreads' copy), so it is a retitling. --Username 11:15, 17 January 2022 (EST)

The note actually says that Reginald only suggests a new title by virtue of the assigned numbers. He usually explicitly states "retitled" which was not done in this case. Regardless, I've made the variant relationship. You could have done that yourself. I also included that it was per the cover in the moderator notes. Thanks for finding the relationship. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 16:56, 17 January 2022 (EST)
Yes, I could have done it, but first, 1 of the few things I'm not good at here is varianting, as I've mentioned many times, and second, I didn't want to hear the usual complaining about changing info without checking with other editors first. If you'd uploaded a better cover, like the one on Goodreads, the info about "previously published as" would have been clear. Also, don't forget to sign your messages. --Username 18:08, 17 January 2022 (EST)

J. Brian Clarke death date

This tweet says he died on Dec 17th, not Jan 17th. I don't know how reliable they are, and/or how likely they are to have made a typo, but I did note that all the other reports that I'd seen (example) don't give an exact date. As such, I'm loathe to alter your edit - it seems a bit odd that his death wouldn't become public knowledge until exactly a month later - but did you have a source with an exact date? ErsatzCulture 10:55, 18 January 2022 (EST)

EDIT: I see Locus has Jan 17th, so it seems more likely that Twitter account made a mistake ErsatzCulture 11:08, 18 January 2022 (EST)
I saw it on File 770, but they didn't have the date. I did search and found it on Locus. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 12:46, 18 January 2022 (EST)
Thanks - I'll take this as an object lesson in researching things thoroughly before hassling people on their talk pages :-) ErsatzCulture 14:16, 18 January 2022 (EST)

Eric Brighteyes

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?20909; I added cover image to Saga of Eric Brighteyes and it was just approved, I checked it out, saw the price was wrong, then saw that you PV'd another copy but it was entered as just Eric Brighteyes, with different cover artist, no intro from Dart-Thornton, etc. So 1 edition is probably unnecessary, but who knows where the $3.95 came from because PV of that edition doesn't respond anymore. I'm going to delete my cover because it's already on the other record. --Username 11:13, 20 January 2022 (EST)


http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?877033; You added this recently, but in this case the Conway name was on the Collins edition instead of Elsna. I added cover image and then later changed the name; I don't know if you need to variant it to the other name or whatever. --Username 21:59, 25 January 2022 (EST)

I'm going to have to undo those edits. Both Reginald and the linked Worldcat record indicate a Collins edition published using the Conway name. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 06:54, 26 January 2022 (EST)

Swfritter's application for self-approver status

When you have a moment, could you please review Swfritter's application for self-approver status? TIA! Ahasuerus 09:19, 26 January 2022 (EST)

Inverted World

Hi Ron. I noticed that there are two almost identical first printing pub records for this title here and here, except for the price. Since you're one of the PVs, can you check your copy and let me know (if) what the price is on (the back of) your copy? If your copy confirms £7.99, then obviously my copy can't be first printing of this edition, so then I'll have to update my PV'd record and have it as 'unknown pub date'. Thanks, MagicUnk 08:26, 27 January 2022 (EST)

Eh, oops, I just noticed that the ISBN's are totally different too. Sorry... But since there's that price difference, I'm wondering about the publication dates - any suggestion as to which one might be incorrect (if at all)? MagicUnk 08:28, 27 January 2022 (EST)
I've double checked mine and the data is correct. I noticed that yours doesn't have a number line whereas mine has the full number line. Given the lack of number line and higher price, I would speculate that yours is a later printing, but I don't think we can identify which one, or the actual printing date. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:45, 27 January 2022 (EST)
That's what I thought so too - I'll be adding a note explaining the pub date uncertainty & change to 0000-00-00. Thanks for checking! MagicUnk 12:18, 27 January 2022 (EST)
I've updated my PV'd record - and while doing so, I noticed that Amazon has cover with and without additional text just below the title. Does your copy has the small font text too? Thanks! MagicUnk 07:55, 28 January 2022 (EST)
It does. PeteYoung uploaded that scan, I assume from a copy he had at the time. In any case, the cover of my copy matches the scan. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:22, 28 January 2022 (EST)

Standardized fanzine title

Hi. I came across this edit which essentially drops the year from the publication name. While I have absolutely nothing against this I thought the standard convention was Title, Date or Title, Issue Year if date isn't known? I don't mind dropping the year when dealing with running issue numbers but wanted to check before I go back and do that to a recently uploaded magazine. Cheers /Lokal_Profil 14:17, 27 January 2022 (EST)

Yes, that's correct. The template that cover this is here. Specifically the bullet titled "Missing or variant dates". The preferred format is <Title>, <Date>. However, if there is no date, issue number can be substituted. There is no mention of a mix of issue number with part of a date. I do realize that there are a number of examples that don't follow these formats and I try to clean them up when I encounter them. I did look at the scan you provided and then went through the exercise of entering "Årg" in a translate app thinking perhaps it was an abbreviation for August. If Google Translate is to be believed, it is "Year" in English. In any case, that template is the reason for my correction. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:01, 27 January 2022 (EST)
Did the fanzine have separate issue numbers per year (starting with issue 1 every year) or was it using continuous numbering? I'd agree that we do not need the year if it is the latter but if the numbering restarts every year, the issue number is really "5-6, 1957" and not just "5-6". Annie 18:24, 27 January 2022 (EST)
According to this excerpt from his SFWA obituary, "Star SF Fanzine" was published between 1955 and 1957, so ... maybe? Hopefully Swedish archives have more details. Ahasuerus 19:35, 27 January 2022 (EST)
P.S. I see that the issue has been transient-verified. Hopefully it is still available and has enough contetx to resolve the issue. Ahasuerus 19:40, 27 January 2022 (EST)
Thanks for the reference. I'd missed that note at the end of the page. Based on this I'll revise some of my other titles. "Årg." is an abbreviation for "Årgång" which can rougly be translated into Year/Volume/Season depending on the context. So hear this is an indication that the issue was released in year 3 of the fanzine. The numbering seems to be continous, and not per year, per this fanzine inventory I found.
I removed my verified flag for this and one more. I have, for now, the scanned versions but not the paper version (so cannot guarantee some page isn't missing). Flags were the result of me getting confused sinc3 I was also entering some ebooks where the digital file is enough for the flag. /Lokal_Profil 07:00, 28 January 2022 (EST)

Eight (?) Tales

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?282264; I did an edit which replaced cover with Fantlab's since it's clearer, then noticed 1 of the stories was missing so I entered that, too; also, FantLab's photo of the front flap has what looks like a sticker with "$5.00" on it (covering the original $4.00?). So if you have any remarks about any of this... --Username 21:06, 27 January 2022 (EST)

I see that Hauck removed a title back in 2017, which may account for the missing story. Perhaps he thought is wasn't genre. In any case, I've approved your edit. The $4.00 price is correct. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:36, 27 January 2022 (EST)

Belknap Book

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?282324; I fixed the title since it's the same as the much later reprints, as can be seen on FantLab's title page. --Username 20:09, 29 January 2022 (EST)

Lazer Tag

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=lazer+tag&type=Series; You added 1 of these, but there's already 1 here with different series title, so it's up to you which you think is the right one so they can both be in the same series. --Username 09:52, 30 January 2022 (EST)

Thanks. "Laser Tag Adventure" is how it is listed both on the cover and in Worldcat. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:00, 30 January 2022 (EST)

Updating Amazon images

Per this Community Portal discussion: I got Jungle Tales of Tarzan. I can dig out one for Autour de la Lune, but it was a photograph in a library. Let me know if you cannot update this one. ../Doug H 23:07, 31 January 2022 (EST)

Updated. I just re-save the amazon image. However the wrinkles in the coating appear to match that of my copy. I recall that I used to upload scans to amazon before we had the ability to do it here, so that may actually be my copy. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:41, 1 February 2022 (EST)


http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?282168; fixed title and added better cover from FantLab. --Username 12:34, 7 February 2022 (EST)

Say Au R'voir

Yeah, I did check with PV: http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Chavey#Shiel_Title. As for the word "but", it's spelled upper and lower case all over ISFDB in titles, so I took a guess as to how it should be. This book is non-genre, anyway, and Shiel was a little girl lover, so I'm not too chuffed if this edit doesn't get accepted. --Username 10:03, 9 February 2022 (EST)

You may have notified Chavey of what you submitted. But as your note in the submission indicated, you were working from the cover title. You need to ask him whether the comma appears on the title page. The title on the cover is irrelevant unless there is no title page. You also need to wait for a response before submitting the edit. I would have held it, except for your change in capitalization. Please see this template under the "Case" bullet. I'm sure you are able to find instances where the capitalization is incorrect, but that isn't a reason to introduce new incorrect data. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:50, 9 February 2022 (EST)

Her Smoke Rose Up Forever - Editor


You are a PV for the Tiptree memorial collection, "Her Smoke Rose Up Forever", 1990 Arkham House edition. (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?16869)

In looking at my hardback copy (1990), I noted that the John Clute Introduction to that volume lists Jim Turner, publisher at Arkham House at that time, as the editor. I confirmed this against other sources such as the SF Encyclopedia.

I have submitted an edit to add this information to the Notes for the title record. As noted in the Template:PublicationFields:Author, editor should be added to the Notes for the publication and title records.

I will notify the other PV, MHutchins, as well. (Sorry, checking on MHutchins, his UserTalk page notes that he does not want to be bothered, I think)

Assuming that the contents of all editions of this are the same stories (I can see that the Introduction changes for Tachyon), I'll plan on updating all of the editions with Jim Turner as the editor in the Notes.

Let me know if there are any questions or concerns.

Thanks. Dave888 19:25, 11 February 2022 (EST)

I think that's mostly fine. I would recommend adding the note only where it is indicated in the book. I checked the Gollancz edition and it also has the Clute introduction. However the Audible Studios edition omits introductions, so I wouldn't add it there. You could check with the verifiers of the other editions. You could also add a note on the title record indicating Turner's editorship, though he is not always credited. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:38, 11 February 2022 (EST)


For Fane, would you object if I added the following before I PV?
Change page count to [8]+311
Add "First Timescape Books printing August, 1981" and the printer's key
Add essay title "Racial/Political Groupings on the Planet Fane" for page [7]
Thanks! Phil 10:04, 13 February 2022 (EST)

That's fine. Please proceed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:38, 13 February 2022 (EST)

Lonesome Places

I added a brighter and better-framed cover to this, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?281784, but noticed 1 story's title is different; copyright and contents say "Sexton, Sexton, ON the Wall", not "IN". So can you check your copy? --Username 16:33, 13 February 2022 (EST)

It appears that the title was changed from its original magazine appearance. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:07, 14 February 2022 (EST)
Can I ask you a question which I've asked you before? Why, when I find brighter or cleaner or better-framed covers for books you PV'd, do you then upload to ISFDB's Wiki the inferior old image instead of the ones that I found? You said the last time I asked you, http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Rtrace/Archive14#Changing_Covers, that you don't like full covers; none of the 4 Derleth covers I just added were full covers. If you're going to suddenly decide to upload the covers could you upload the better ones instead? --Username 08:57, 14 February 2022 (EST)
There's recently been an effort to replace certain unstable Amazon covers. Rather than having go through this process in the future if other third party sites become unstable, I have a preference for images hosted by our site. The Cover for Mr. George is the same one that you linked to. I merely cropped it to remove the extraneous background. The image for Colonel Markesan had an odd color that did not match the actual jacket. I would have just uploaded the two fantlab images, except that they were both very small and I was able to find higher resolution images. I fail to see what your objections are to the new images. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:17, 14 February 2022 (EST)
Fine with me; you obviously put some care into doing these things so if you think the uploads are the best version possible then it's cool. --Username 19:39, 14 February 2022 (EST)

Hynd's Red Cat

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?70325; There's also this; same author, same publisher, but whether it's written exactly the same way on the title page is unknown. --Username 12:12, 17 February 2022 (EST)

It's definitely the same publisher and I've merged them. I've taken the shorter name as indicated on the archive of their website. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:44, 17 February 2022 (EST)

OCLC on 2 Oz books


You copied the wrong OCLC ID on two of your verified (ISBN10 instead of OCLC): here and here. Thanks! Annie 13:39, 17 February 2022 (EST)

And this one needs its OCLC number ("v" looks like a copy/paste incident) and while you are there, can you also change "into" into "Into"? :) Annie 13:41, 17 February 2022 (EST)
Ahh, the dreaded cut and paste errors. All fixed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:41, 17 February 2022 (EST)

The Nemesis of Terra


Just noticed, cause I was about to add a translation, that this edition of The Nemesis of Terra should have 16 chapters instead of 15. Chapter 7 (only the title) is written twice. Is it worth a note? or should I just keep going, enjoying the rest of my day. --Spacecow 05:17, 20 February 2022 (EST)

It's an interesting point and I've no objection if you add a note. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:43, 22 February 2022 (EST)

The A-Z Guide to Babylon 5

Would you mind checking your copy of The A-Z Guide to Babylon 5 and see if the last printed page number is 309 with the single following unnumbered page being Appendix VI? That would make the page count 310, not 320+[8]. I don't think the unnumbered photo pages should be in the count either. Thanks! Phil 08:28, 22 February 2022 (EST)

I completely agree that the page count should be simply 310. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 20:51, 22 February 2022 (EST)

David Brin / Sundiver

I was just looking at the pub record for Sundiver and noticed that you have SVd it to Locus1. I'm a bit puzzled by this because it's a 1980 publication and the Locus Index does not start until 1984. Have you SVd this based on the Books Received column in the Locus print magazine? Does ISFDb policy permit this? Thanks Teallach 07:32, 24 February 2022 (EST)

No, that's actually from Locus1. When they list a reprint, they generally also list the first edition publisher and date. So, while there is not a full record for that edition, Locus1 gives "(Bantam 1980)" in each of the 5 editions listed in their 1984-1998 page. This is actually more data than what is in the Clute indexes which usually lists only the year, and sometimes country of publication. We wouldn't use Locus1 for items in the Books Received column. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:47, 24 February 2022 (EST)
I understand. Thank you for the explanation. Teallach 16:46, 24 February 2022 (EST)

Novelette Length

http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal#Word_Count; I wrote this recently; nobody responded, so I assume you didn't see it, but according to that site, it (barely) qualifies as a novelette. Also, I think that site could be very useful here for determining lengths; spread the word. --Username 10:11, 25 February 2022 (EST)

I'll approve it. However, I need to mention that you could have saved a lot of trouble had you just included your source for the length in the notes. As it is, you gave starting and ending pages that calculate to less than 20 pages, which is usually too short for a novelette. Further, you offered that it was "much longer than other stories" and "it's likely a novelette". The first phrase doesn't tell me whether it exceeds the boundary word count especially since several of the other stories in the magazine are vignettes which are quite short. The second phrase indicates that you were guessing. Given the ambiguity of those statements and after doing my own research that showed this as a short story in a secondary source, rejecting the submission is the only conclusion I could come to. You should not expect moderators to scour the message boards looking for posts. Especially if those posts don't even give the title that you are referencing. If you had the word count, adding that in the moderator notes would have been a better way to go. If you didn't have the word count, you should have waited until you had done more research before submitting the change. Even if you got the word count after submitting, you could have deleted your edit and re-issued it with a new Moderator note. We don't update records on what is "likely" especially when there is evidence to the contrary. I'm not sure about the site you mention, but pasting the text of the story into Microsoft Word shows a word count of 8,282 which is, in fact, a novelette. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:21, 25 February 2022 (EST)
Dude, I do hundreds of edits a week; if I trickled out a few now and then like many of the other editors here then I'd have the time to do what you suggested. I found that site after I made the edit, so I couldn't hop in my time machine and mention it in a moderator note; the message I wrote about wordcount.com was there for quite a while before you rejected the edit, so maybe mods should check the boards more often. I was told long ago by 1 of you that leaving a message on Community Portal is the best way to get it noticed. The time between approvals has been getting much longer lately, so even remembering an edit I did a few days earlier is challenging. Also, using Microsoft Word seems pointless since on the site I found typing a URL will almost instantly give you the word count (hence the name of the site) + other useful info. No need to further enrich the pockets of a woke joke like Bill Gates. --Username 18:45, 25 February 2022 (EST)

Dr. Lao

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?226509; I've been doing Lao edits since you've been doing some, and this book's intro is the same as the 1982 one (I merged them), as noted on copyright page I saw on eBay while looking for artist's credit; didn't see it, but since Robert Giusti is the only artist with that name on ISFDB and did many covers around this time I credited him using his full name even though signature just says GIUSTI. EDIT: There's a George Giusti but he only did 2 covers 10-15 years earlier and art style doesn't look similar so I'm still sticking with Robert; maybe someone will find a portfolio or something online to verify. I anticipate someone telling me to enter Giusti and variant it to his full name; we'll see. --Username 14:53, 26 February 2022 (EST)

Belknap's Rim

https://fantlab.ru/edition138664; FantLab has a photo with an $8.95 price (later printing?), unlike the $7.50 entered by you; you may want to check your copy. Also, the cover image is brighter than the one from Amazon , so replacing it may be OK, too. --Username 12:26, 27 February 2022 (EST)

If you look closely at the Fantlab photo, you'll note that the $8.95 price is a sticker. The list price of the book is $7.50, which is what is shown in my copy. With the exception of the their standard Lovecraft collections, Arkham House rarely did second printings. They did occasionally raise the price of their unsold stock, which would be consistent with a sticker. However for this Long title, neither Jaffery, nor Nielsen, nor Joshi, nor Chalker/Owings mention a price increase. I've uploaded a new scan from my copy. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 15:29, 27 February 2022 (EST)

Farewell to Earth: The Original Ending


Is the introduction here really a short story? Thanks! Annie 18:15, 2 March 2022 (EST)

Similar question for the Timothy Standish's title in The Tortuga Hill Gang's Last Ride: The True Story - I suspect that may be interior art? Annie 18:17, 2 March 2022 (EST)
Fixed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:27, 2 March 2022 (EST)

Seabury Quinn Collection

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?251238; Made some changes based on FantLab; 1 story has "Saint Bonnot" instead of "St. Bonnot" on contents page, so you may want to check story's title page. --Username 12:51, 3 March 2022 (EST)

Corrected. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:49, 3 March 2022 (EST)

It's amazing you knew what I was talking about since I somehow added a link to your page instead of the book's record. That's been corrected. --Username 19:53, 3 March 2022 (EST)

You gave me the name of the story which appears in two collections that I own. I just searched the edit queue and found your pending edit. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 20:51, 3 March 2022 (EST)QED.

Supernatural Horror in Literature

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?297456; Since you're surprisingly the only person who's made an edit for this major work since it was entered here more than 10 years ago I thought you'd like to know about this page, https://fantlab.ru/edition159198, which reveals that Lovecraft's name is spelled in full on the title page, the index is on a later page than what's entered here, the 1973 Dover ed. on Google Books says it replaced the 1945 Foreword by Derleth but the introduction is by Derleth here, the cover art is probably by someone well-known in Lovecraft circles but doesn't seem to be signed, etc. I added the cover and the FantLab link but I'm sure more can be entered. If I find out more I can enter it, too. --Username 22:07, 3 March 2022 (EST)

I took care of correcting the name. You could have done that, but it is a three edit process for each the ESSAY and the NONFICTION records. I could guess that the artwork is Utpatel, but we'd need better evidence to add a credit. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:18, 4 March 2022 (EST)

The Gate Number

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?341736; Just for my own curiosity, what's the latest rule for paging mags? I see you changed # from 160 to 164. --Username 00:04, 5 March 2022 (EST)

Magazines have a different rule for page count which includes the covers. See this section in the help pages. Since the numbering starts after the front cover, it is the same as the Fantastic Universe example. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 06:31, 5 March 2022 (EST)

The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, September/October 2019

I changed the title 'Haldstead IV' to Halstead IV in your verified pub The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, September/October 2019 while entering the 2020 Rhysling Anthology. The anthology Acknowledgments, SFPA website, and FictionMags Index all show 'Halstead IV'. Does this agree with your copy? If not, I'll change it back and variant the title. Thanks, John Scifibones 22:20, 5 March 2022 (EST)

I verified the spelling and your change is correct. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:22, 6 March 2022 (EST)

Deadly Freeze

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2308613; I added SF-Encyclopedia's cover to your entry, but there's another entry years earlier with bad Amazon cover and wrong publisher but includes month and extra WorldCat ID. So you may want to delete older record and keep yours after adding those extras; SF-Encyclopedia also says Susan Neale did the cover for this and Bruce Carter's Buzzbugs, but I don't see a signature on either cover and there's no other sites I can see that mention her as the cover artist for Deadly Freeze and only AbeBooks for Buzzbugs, which says she designed the front panel of the jacket, which is kind of vague. --Username 16:04, 6 March 2022 (EST)

Figures of Earth

Would you please look at your copy of Figures of Earth and see if the title of the essay on page xxv is actually "A Foreword"? Does page xxiii show "A Foreword" with a Latin quote and a dedication to Sinclair Lewis instead of the title "A Preface" as shown in the current pub record? That's how my copy reads. I believe the same title problem likely exists in the unPVed Canadian pub that shares the same catalog ID. I propose to edit the "Preface" title record used only by those two pubs and then merge it with the correct title sic.

I also want to add notes "First U.S. Printing: November, 1969", "No printer's key.", and "Ballentine Books edition printed from the Storisende Edition". Then I'll PV. What do you think? Phil 12:14, 8 March 2022 (EST)

You are correct and my copy matches yours. However, you shouldn't need to edit the title of "A Preface". You can simply merge it with the existing "A Foreword" title. You'll have to do an advanced search to find them both in the same search so they can be merged, but it's a single edit that way. The other changes are fine. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:36, 8 March 2022 (EST)
Thanks. I appreciate learning the timesaving steps. Phil 22:17, 8 March 2022 (EST)

The Cream of the Jest

For The Cream of the Jest do you mind if I replace "Stated first edition" with "First Printing: September, 1971" and "No printer's key"? Thanks! Phil 12:35, 8 March 2022 (EST)

I have no objections. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:38, 8 March 2022 (EST)

Fata Morgana

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?287540; Added artist. --Username 11:06, 14 March 2022 (EDT)

Exiles at the Well of Souls

For Exiles at the Well of Souls, do you mind if I change the page count to xii+337, add title "About Time ..." on pg [xii], and import missing titles:
Detail of Northern Hemisphere (map) (Exiles at the Well of Souls) on pg ix
Section of Southern Hemisphere (map) (Exiles at the Well of Souls) on pg x
Appendix: Races Referred to in Exiles at the Well of Souls on pg 331
About the Author (Exiles at the Well of Souls) on pg 337
Thanks! Phil 07:51, 15 March 2022 (EDT)

I'm fine with all these additions, with one small change: I don't think it is necessary to put page xii within square brackets. I think this falls into the case of "Unnumbered pages within a range of numbered pages" in this help page. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:15, 15 March 2022 (EDT)


Ron, I'm entering all the issues of Niteblade, I saw you verified Niteblade, December 2011. The price for that issue was $7.50, thought you might want to add it. Source. I plan on using Niteblade as the title, do you see a problem with changing those titled 'Niteblade Fantasy and Horror Magazine'? thanks John Scifibones 19:17, 15 March 2022 (EDT)

I've added the price and fixed the EDITOR record for that issue since it's the only one present for that year. I've no objections to your plan for the shortened name and adjusted the EDITOR record accordingly. I suspect that I picked up that issue on a freebie table at a convention. I've been known to do that solely for the purpose of being able to enter it here. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:41, 15 March 2022 (EDT)

The Return of Nathan Brazil

For The Return of Nathan Brazil, do you mind if I change the page count to ix+289+[2], add title "About the Author (The Return of Nathan Brazil)" on page [291], and add missing title:
Section of Southern Hemisphere (map) (The Return of Nathan Brazil) on page viii
Thanks! Phil 08:45, 18 March 2022 (EDT)

These all sound fine. I'll also take this opportunity to mention something I noticed with your edits to Exiles at the Well of Souls. For Roman numbered pages, it isn't necessary to add the piped sort page number (e.g. "ix|.09"). The software is smart enough to put Roman numbered pages in the correct spot. It may become necessary if there are bracketed or a mix of bracketed and unbracketed numbers as I'm not sure how they sort without experimenting. Regardless, adding the piped sorts, as you did, does no harm. Only letting you know that it's not necessary. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:22, 18 March 2022 (EDT)

Twilight at the Well of Souls

For Twilight at the Well of Souls: The Legacy of Nathan Brazil, do you mind if I change the page count to x+304+[1] and import missing title:
Section of Southern Hemisphere (map) (The Return of Nathan Brazil) on page viii
Thanks! Phil 08:55, 18 March 2022 (EDT)

These are fine too. Although, as I read this page, I think we can make the page count simply x+305. It's kind of an edge case since the unnumbered page is material after the novel, and that's not a scenario specifically detailed. So if you disagree, I won't insist and you can enter it as you propose. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:28, 18 March 2022 (EDT)

Sailors' Knots

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?418903; I added int. artist. --Username 11:04, 19 March 2022 (EDT)

Red Moon and Black Mountain

For Red Moon and Black Mountain, would you mind if I:
1. Change the title to "Red Moon and Black Mountain: The End of the House of Kendreth" to match the title page. That will likely mean an unmerge and variant sequence after approval since I can't tell what's on the title page of the earlier Unwin edition.
2. Change the page count to xvii+268 to account for the unnumbered pages that include the map on page [xvi] and [xvii].
3. Add title "Red Moon and Black Mountain: The End of the House of Kendreth (map)" by uncredited on page [xvi].
4. Replace note "Stated 1st printing. No number line." with notes "First Printing: March, 1971" and "No number line so first printing can be assumed."
Thanks! Phil 09:35, 20 March 2022 (EDT)

This all sounds fine except for #1 above. Go ahead and add the title to the publication record, but don't worry about unmerging. I don't think it's mentioned in the help pages, but when the only difference between publications is the presence or absence of a subtitle, we leave the title record without the subtitle and just add the subtitle to the publication records where present. I asked about this practice back in 2009 and the admittedly few responses agreed with the practice. I updated the second printing accordingly. Let me know when you've added the map, and I'll import into my copy. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:52, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
Actually we do have competing practices on subtitles currently in the DB - some works have them unmerged (and some editors work based on that rule), some have them merged and together (as per your description). We probably should have a R&S discussion to decide which direction we want to go into (I prefer unmerged and variants in this case for example - as we are a DB, making searches easier is always a good thing IMO and making a subtitle all but impossible to find on the title level does not appeal to me). 2009 was a long time ago -- and things had changed in the DB a lot since then. We need this kind of "a few old editors know that rule" things into the rules - one way or another. Just saying. :) Annie 20:51, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
Template:TitleFields:Title ad Template:PublicationFields:Title currently say:
  • Subtitles. If the title has a subtitle, enter it, with a colon and a space used to separate the title from the subtitle. For example, the 1986 edition of George MacDonald's "Lilith" has "Lilith" on the title page, and below that, in a smaller font, "A Romance". This should be entered as "Lilith: A Romance".
Checking the database, we find that Lilith is the main title and Lilith, A Romance [note the comma] is a variant title. Something is clearly wrong here.
I agree that we should have a Rules and Standards discussion to determine and then codify the current practices. I believe we normally drop "generic" subtitles like "A Novel", but I don't see it documented in Help. Ahasuerus 21:10, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
Yeah, the dropping of the generic "A Novel" and so on also needs to be codified as well -- not having these codified makes us not very new-user-friendly. In this case it is a regular subtitle - whose dropping on the title level while keeping on the publication level is not codified at all - although I know some editors do that... The comma in Lilith may be as shown on a title page -- if the fonts do not change, it may be a valid title for it. Annie 21:18, 20 March 2022 (EDT)

(<-) I'm still waiting to hear back from another active PV so I won't be making any changes until then - unless I can go ahead if the earliest active PV approves and I haven't heard from other, later active PVs? You should be aware that I also found the need to make the same title change for the SFBC pub. I have approval for that change from Willem H and am still hoping for a concurring timely response from Chavey.

After being told to unmerge and variant for several other titles, I have been consistently doing that so a definitive standard would be appreciated. Phil 22:39, 20 March 2022 (EDT)

I agree that having a discussion regarding generic subtitles would be a good thing. The help pages seem to be at odds with actual practice. However, that's not precisely the question at hand. The practice coming from the 2009 R&S discussion was that variant titles should not be created merely for the presence of a subtitle. My only concern about changing from the 2009 decision is that it will put more than 13 years of edits out of standards. These do not seem to appear in the cleanup report that I would expect ([1]). Given that the 2nd printing where the sub subtitle was just added does not appear, I would guess that the report lists titles (as opposed to publications) and the title presumably has already been ignored because it falls under the 2009 decision. If my supposition is correct, we would need to un-ignore the records in this report and then re-ignore those that are OK for other reasons. This would need to be done before we could determine the scope of the amount of work a change from the 2009 decision would create in order to conform to a new standard. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:07, 22 March 2022 (EDT)
The linked cleanup report looks for VT-alternate name mismatches and doesn't look at titles. For example, when it looked at Letter (Fantastic Adventures, March 1941): Letter from a Lady by Loretta A. Beasley, which is a VT of Letter (Fantastic Adventures, March 1941): Letter from a Lady by Loretta Adele Beasley, it noted that "Loretta A. Beasley" is not set up as an alternate name used by "Loretta Adele Beasley". Did you, by chance, have some other cleanup report in mind? Ahasuerus 09:55, 23 March 2022 (EDT)
Is this the report I was looking for? --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:07, 23 March 2022 (EDT)
That looks about right. Checking the database, I see 119 "ignored" records. I would be easy to "unignore" and reexamine them. Ahasuerus 10:18, 23 March 2022 (EDT)
P.S. One thing to keep in mind is that the cleanup report assumes that a title-pub pair is "OK" if the pub title contains the "title title" OR the "title title" contains the pub title. The logic also strips punctuation. Ahasuerus 12:52, 23 March 2022 (EDT)
I thought that 119 was too small. It seems that the report was designed with the 2009 decision in mind. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:49, 23 March 2022 (EDT)
Not really - more of a "find just the big discrepancies" report than a comprehensive one (the difference of punctuation had always required variants; this report ignores that as well). Possibly that initial implementation was done that way at least partially because of the huge number of publications with the series name as part of the title when the title records had been cleaned of it (and the job remained unfinished on the pubs level) or vice versa. As I mentioned - we need to have a R&S discussion and decide what we want to codify as the rule because at the moment we have both practices being used all over the place depending on who is handling. Annie 18:03, 23 March 2022 (EDT)
Luckily, I remember the decision making process which led to the current logic. At the time, an awful lot of publication records (and some title records) had their series name embedded into their titles plus, of course, there were subtitle mismatches. Due to manpower constraints, we wanted to clean up actual mismatches first, so we used "contains" as opposed to "equals" in the query logic.
After replacing "contains" with "equals" and rerunning the report, I get 10,030 hits. Removing "punctuation stripping" raises the number to 10,976. Some mismatches are due to lingering series names, e.g. "Battle Born (Dagger of the World Book 2)", but many are due to subtitles like "Tales of the Kingdom: 30th Anniversary Edition". The current logic also masks occasional typos, e.g. note the leading "3" in this pub's title.
I think we definitely need a Rules and Standards discussion about subtitles. If nothing else, we need to agree on and document the current standard. Ahasuerus 18:35, 23 March 2022 (EDT)

Ace D-13

Hi Ron, I was looking at the covers for Cry Plague! / The Judas Goat (Ace D-13), which is shown as verified by you. You cite the cover artist for Cry Plague!, and indeed I see "Marchetti" on the artwork. The flip-side is non-genre, so perhaps the cover artist would not usually be entered. But I noticed that there is a signature at the bottom left, stacked vertically in red lettering, which is difficult to read. However, I make it out to be "De Soto." I'm thinking this is probably Rafael De Soto, who as a well-known genre artist should probably be cited, assuming it is he. Can you read the name on your copy with any more certainty than I can on mine? All the best, Ldb001 01:46, 21 March 2022 (EDT)

Sorry, but even with reading glasses and a magnifying glass, I can't make out that signature. I've no objection if you are fairly certain that it is De Soto. Other editors may object because it is non-genre art, but I would not. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:22, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
I managed to make a high-res scan of the signature with some enhanced contrast. Despite the stippling pattern, I think it's convincing that it's "DeSoto" although there is what looks like a II after the name. I can't imagine what this is; sometimes he would put a two-digit date with his sig, but it doesn't appear to be that. All the best, Ldb001 12:00, 21 March 2022 (EDT)


Prince of Annwn

My copy of [[2]] states "First Printing: November, 1974", not "First Edition: November 1974". Does yours? --Glenn 03:32, 22 March 2022 (EDT)

Mine agrees with yours. Feel free to correct it. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:38, 22 March 2022 (EDT)

Bill Johnson

I'm not sure how to report this, but since you updated Bill Johnson's page for his death, I thought I'd reach out to you. Heroes & Friends [3], the novel listed for Bill Johnson ([4]) was actually written by a different individual named Bill Johnson, not the Hugo Award-winning author. Shsilver

Thanks. I changed the other author to Bill Johnson (I). It's really just a matter of changing the author name on the one title record and two publication records for that one novel. Thanks for pointing it out. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:44, 23 March 2022 (EDT)
I did an edit for Dakota Dreamin', fixing a few dates so they match the book's date and adding a couple of catalog ID's. I also entered a new SF book, Combat Poets of Maya, from 2004 that is actually by the other Bill Johnson. Sf-Encyclopedia.com has both that book and the one mentioned above as by the late Johnson, so maybe a mod here can get in touch and ask them to remove them from his page. --Username 10:51, 24 March 2022 (EDT)

The Night People

Re: http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?889672, all books with the maple leaf, and there are many, are still listed on ISFDB as by Pocket Books. Pocket Books (Canada) only has 2 Richard Rohmer books, because he really was a Canadian author who published in Canada. The logo in the upper corner of Exxoneration just has the standard kangaroo, no maple leaf. Publisher should be changed back to Pocket Books. --Username 10:46, 24 March 2022 (EDT)

I disagree. The maple leaf contains the words "Published in Canada". Whereas the publisher of the US as shown in Worldcat, lists only New York as a city. I've no doubt the two publishers are related, perhaps even with the same parent company. The fact that they share logos is immaterial. Unfortunately, the only data we can find about the Canadian publication is that cover scan. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:21, 24 March 2022 (EDT)
I'm confused. There are very many Pocket Books with that maple leaf on the cover (I replaced several John Russo novel covers recently because prior editors just uploaded whatever covers they found on Amazon without noticing they were Canadian) but none of them were entered here as (Canada). They are Pocket Books with slightly higher prices that have a "C" in front of them, and maybe a note saying "printed in Canada" if the editor chose to mention that. If you think every Pocket with a leaf on the cover should be (Canada) that's a big can of worms you're going to open, because it would mean not only changing dozens, maybe hundreds of records, but also needing editors to check every single Pocket publication from the 70's onward (when I think the leaf first appeared) to verify which covers are American and which are Canadian, since the wrong Night People cover was sitting there for a very long time without anyone noticing. Maybe this should be discussed on Community Portal. EDIT: While checking the Edit History I found out that I apparently am the one who entered the Canadian cover about a year ago! Mhhutchins entered the book way back in 2012, and I can only assume I replaced his cover because it wasn't very good but somehow missed the leaf, or maybe since this was fairly early in my editing days I didn't know the difference yet. So this whole discussion was inadvertently started by me making a mistake. Hooray for stupidity! --Username 19:11, 24 March 2022 (EDT)

Edd Cartier

Hi, Ron. Checkout this Edd Cartier illustration in upcoming Heritage Auctions sale https://fineart.ha.com/itm/edd-cartier-american-1914-2008-stardust-probable-interior-illustration-ink-and-crayon-on-board-10-x-13-1-4-inches/a/8069-71201.s. I believe it's likely from the July 1952 'Astounding' you PV'd (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?57521). If you can verify that, I'd like to share the info with Heritage so they can include it in the artwork's provenance. Markwood 12:23, 24 March 2022 (EDT)

Yes, it's on page 149, though with a different orientation. There's a scan of that issue available. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 12:30, 24 March 2022 (EDT)

Lovecraft Letters

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?270245; Added link to https://archive.org/details/lovecraft-h.-p.-selected-letters-v-1934-1937-arkham-house-1976, and fixed slight error in preface #. --Username 15:44, 24 March 2022 (EDT)

The House of Souls

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubs_not_in_series.cgi?45877; I fixed the page count of your House of Souls PV, being off by 1 because of no number on last page, and noticed there's another edition here. It says omnibus unlike your PV which says collection and says "do not merge", but it's the same book. 5 different editors worked on it, none recently, but I have a feeling they should be merged. Also while checking this I found there's a 2014 Tartarus edition on ISFDB which says "do not combine" because editor (Anniemod) wasn't sure of the contents, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2640178, so that's another merging possibility. --Username 19:23, 24 March 2022 (EDT)

Zlata Černá co-author of Tales of the Uncanny

Based on the edit history of this pub, I think you might have created/worked on this author record earlier this year?

I noticed on the today's birthday's section of the homepage that there were dupe entries for "V. Černý" and "Václav Černý", and when I went to clean that up, I found that all three authors have dupe entries: full names from an English collection (the aforementioned pub), and initial+surname from a story in German.

I've just merged the two Černá entries, making the full name the parent record, but when I went to copy the more detailed info from Z. Černá, I noticed there's a big discrepancy in the birthdate - 1932-10-07 for the former, versus 1905-00-00 for Zlata Černá. If you did work on that author record, any idea where the year might have come from? (The other author entry does have 2 external links, but neither work for me, so whether it is more correct or not, I dunno - but a very quick Google search on "Zlata Černá" does seem to back up the 1932 date.

Via the OCLC page linked for that pub, they also agree on 1932. There's also a Reginald3 reference, but I assume that's only useful if you have the physical volume?

Apologies in advance if this is nothing to do with you or you have no recollection of it ;-) ErsatzCulture 12:30, 26 March 2022 (EDT)

Moreover, I somehow got the feeling that this is really an anthology instead of a collection: OCLC describes it as 'Thirty-one tales of ghosts, monsters, evil spirits, and other manifestations of the supernatural from various parts of the world.' (I came to this thread also via the double birthday entry.) Christian Stonecreek 13:01, 26 March 2022 (EDT)
Yes, that's all from Reginald3. Unfortunately, it doesn't give as many biographical details as Reginald1 and 2). It gives the birth year as 1905 and lists no death year, so presumably they were still alive in 1992. Reginald also lists the book as a collection. He does classify anthologies separately. I don't know if Reginald's definitions of collections and anthologies are exactly the same as ours. However, until we can verify the contents, I'd recommend leaving it as Reginald lists it. As far as the birth date, we can go ahead and change it. I would recommend a note as to the source of the 1932 date and that Reginald3 lists it as 1905. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:33, 26 March 2022 (EDT)
Thanks - I've made all 3 "initial" authors variant to the full name entries, and made a parent variant title for the German story that uses the "initial" authors. Have added the note you suggested re. date of birth. Hopefully that's all that needs to/can be done on this for now. ErsatzCulture 14:42, 27 March 2022 (EDT)


http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?283634; FantLab says 450 copies; does your copy say so? --Username 20:00, 27 March 2022 (EDT)

There us no colophon or limitation statement. Nor can I find anything by scanning the introductory essays. However, Chalker/Owings gives the same count for the paper edition. I'll add a note. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:14, 28 March 2022 (EDT)
There's a copy of Arno's edition, https://archive.org/details/333bibliographyo0000craw, which isn't linked on OL, in case you can find anything useful in it to enter here. --Username 13:34, 28 March 2022 (EDT)

Frontier Cthulhu

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?208093; Did a few things for this using Archive copy, including correcting page count which was off by 20+ pages. --Username 13:14, 2 April 2022 (EDT)

Cover scans

Hi, Ron. One of my primary verifications has been changed this year, your edition of 1980 Pocket Books Charmed Life [5]. If I understand the record in Image namespace, you provided a scan where we had none previously --probably by scanning a book only weeks ago. The image is at least satisfactory for my eye and brain, yet only 44KB. Looking around I see others routinely provide .jpg files with size 50-150KB. How do you produce them, and condense them if that is what occurs on a second step?

Trying the local public library self-serve flatbed scanner this week, and also two years ago with a different hardware brand, I get much-too-large files. What the library names "Standard", "High Resolution", and "Photo" quality --three settings that users cannot modify (self-serve by choice from fixed options), I have sizes such as 600-800, 1200-1600, and 6400KB. By eye, quality is no better than what other editors routinely provide here. --Pwendt|talk 19:16, 3 April 2022 (EDT)

Hi Pwendt
I use a couple of different methods for finding cover scans to upload. I don't recall specifically what I did for Charmed Life, but I may have taken either the Amazon image that we had previously, or I found another one by searching online. I then saved the image locally and re-uploaded. That seems consistent with ending up with an image of 44KB. If I'm unable do find a suitable image online, and if my own copy is in adequate condition, I do have a scanner at home. I tend to scan at a high quality and large image, but will then use IrfanView to crop the image and resize to a maximum of 600 pixels (usually height). I also use the RIOT plugin with IrfanView which allows me to set a maximum file size of 150kb. The tool is freeware as is the plugin. If you end up with a file from your library scanner that is too large, the tool will allow you to resize and compress to get things within our standards. I'm sure there are other products that do the same thing. This is just the one I use. Hope that helps. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:40, 3 April 2022 (EDT)
Pardon my intrusion, but the "Cover scans" caught my eye. It is even possible to use Windows Paint to rescale. I'd only recommend it for the odd image, it doesn't seem to do proportional scaling, just absolute. ../Doug H 22:36, 3 April 2022 (EDT)

Ship Who Sang

From the same page you linked: "The official date of conversion to decimal currency was Feb. 15, 1971"; this book was published in April 1971, after that date, so the pound price I entered is correct, and the decimal in note was also correct. Also, the Zelazny book from the same publisher was published in 1970 but has the pound price entered and the decimal price in the notes; that one actually needs fixing. --Username 12:51, 5 April 2022 (EDT)

It's still a little muddled as the source of the April 1971 is not documented and the format of the pre-decimal price lacks brackets as described in our template. I've started a discussion on the community portal to figure out what to do with this record. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:17, 5 April 2022 (EDT)

The Tsaddik of the Seven Wonders

For The Tsaddik of the Seven Wonders, would you mind if I replace "Stated 1st printing" with "First Printing: December, 1971" and "No printer's key" before I PV? Thanks! Phil 14:59, 8 April 2022 (EDT)

That's all fine. Thanks for asking. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:00, 8 April 2022 (EDT)

Her Majesty's Aberration

In Astounding Science Fiction, March 1948, "Her Majesty's Aberration" (page 126) was shown as credited to L. Ron Hubbard. I changed it to René Lafayette (one his alternate names) based on the Internet Archive scan. This issue was found by Sylvar. Letting you know as the unmerge will not show up in the changed primary verification list. -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:18, 9 April 2022 (EDT)

Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:20, 9 April 2022 (EDT)


http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?284523; I made changes to some dates and notes in an edit; also, I don't see a hyphen in Hy-Brasil on the title page, but there is everywhere else in the book, so I don't know if that warrants a title change. --Username 12:36, 11 April 2022 (EDT)

New Terrors

https://picclick.com/New-Terrors-Omnibus-313479482175.html; Title is Omnibus of New Terrors, followed by 2 pages of contents; they didn't use the individual titles of the original books here. The only place New Terrors Two appears is on the title page of the original 1980 anthology, as I entered in my edit. --Username 12:06, 12 April 2022 (EDT)

OK, I've approved it. This would have been useful information to include in the Note to Moderator. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:22, 12 April 2022 (EDT)
It would have been, except I didn't think to look for it until you asked me because omnibuses don't usually include separate title pages for the previously published books they contain, otherwise they would have called it New Terrors 1 and 2 instead of Omnibus. EDIT: This, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1008222, is the only ISFDB record that still says "2"; needs changing, too? --Username 18:42, 12 April 2022 (EDT)
Depends on how it is stated in the review. You should contact the active verifiers. It should be changed as "New Terrors Two". However, if it the review lists it as "New Terrors 2", then a note also needs to be added stating the discrepancy (see this help template. My experience differs from yours. Nearly all omnibuses that I've seen have title pages for each contained work. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:06, 12 April 2022 (EDT)

Aldiss / The Making of an Epic

I recently created a new pub for The Making of an Epic which you approved. I always check records I have edited/created after the sub has been processed to make sure everything looks ok and, in this case, all is not well. I entered "Brian Aldiss" in the Author field (that's how it appears in the pub) and I was expecting the ISFDb software to recognise that this is an alternate name for the canonical "Brian W. Aldiss" and link everything up correctly. But it hasn't; the author record for Brian W. Aldiss does not list the new pub. Furthermore, the author record Brian Aldiss only lists this new pub. This is alarmingly wrong as there are dozens of other pubs as by Brian Aldiss. I cannot figure out what has gone wrong. Can you look into this for me please? Thank you. Teallach 17:40, 12 April 2022 (EDT)

You were absolutely correct to enter the author as "Brian Aldiss" as it appears in the publication. Unfortunately, it is not an automatic process to link up the record you created to Aldiss' canonical name. This is a two step edit. For the second step, you need to navigate to the title record for the publication that you just created. You can get there by clicking on the link following "Nonfiction Title:" about mid-page (which will take you here). You can also get there by clicking on the title on the Brian Aldiss page. On the title page, you need to look for the Editing Tool on the left hand side titled "Make This Title a Variant". This will open up a page with two options on it. Option 1 is used when the parent title already exists, which is not the case here. Option 2 is what you want which will create a new parent title. The form is prepopulated with data from the existing record. You'll want to change Author 1 from "Brian Aldiss" to "Brian W. Aldiss" and then click the Create New Parent Title button. After that edit is approved, things will appear correctly. The book will be listed in the Brian W. Aldiss bibliography and it will show that it only appeared using the name Brian Aldiss. Please give it a try and let me know if I wasn't clear about a step, or if you have any other questions about the process. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:20, 12 April 2022 (EDT)
Ah, I understand. I am familiar with making variants for a different pub name but this is the first time I've come across a case like this where it's the same or new pub name but alternate author name. Useful to know; it's all part of the learning curve and I'll know what to do in similar future cases. I've submitted the edit. Thanks for your help and the explanation. Teallach 19:08, 12 April 2022 (EDT)
I've approved your edit. Looks good. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:12, 12 April 2022 (EDT)

Τζην Μαρτς < Gene March < Patrick Dearen, Al Kinney, Jr.

You passed over one of my Tuesday submissions, and I use it to review the matter of transitive Alternate name relations, vs Variant title relations, at ISFDB:Community Portal#Alternate of Alternate name; vs Variant of Variant title.

By the way, there I used a link to your User page. Do we have an arrangement that "pings" you when you are named with such a link?

Also by the way, I think there is a wiki device to target [ISFDB:Community Portal, item 173] but I don't know it. Do you? --Pwendt|talk 12:51, 15 April 2022 (EDT)

Yes I probably shouldn't have skipped that one. My concern at the time was that it looked like the edit would have no effect. We don't get many remove variant name edits, so I'm not as familiar with moderating that type of edit as others. I'm sorry that I didn't realize what was the edit was trying to do. At this point, it appears that Annie has taken care of things. The edit I skipped is no showing as invalid, so I'm going to "hard reject" it. If there is still a problem with the names you are trying to link, let me know and I'll try to help to get them sorted.
I'm unaware of anything that triggers a notice when a username is mentioned in the Wiki. I do get a notice when you post on my talk page, but not otherwise. I may catch it though as I have many pages in my watchlist including the Community Portal.
I think you did target item 173 correctly in your first paragraph. You also could have added a friendly name with a pipe i.e. "...Variant title|this discussion]]"
Thanks, and let me know if I can help further. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:50, 15 April 2022 (EDT)

Novacon 17 Special pub series

Hi, I've just been working on the contents of a recent-ish anthology of (mostly) stories previously published for Novacon, and in the process I noticed that there's a "Novacon 17 Special" pub series (of one pub) separate from the main "Novacon" pub series. This seems to be down to an edit you made last year, changing it from "Novacon" (assuming I'm interpreting the edit history correctly).

I don't have any direct familiarity with any of these Novacon pubs, but there's now a #17 gap in the series. The other gaps for #12 and #13 [*] are mentioned in the pub series note, so maybe there should be a similar mention of #17 if it's considered separate from the main pub series?

[ * There are also gaps for #41-49, but it looks like I'm going to be researching those as part of populating the content for the aforementioned anthology, at least in part...]


UPDATE: I see SFE has a complete (?) list, which does have #17 as part of that series, FWIW. ErsatzCulture 17:08, 16 April 2022 (EDT)

Sorry. I'm not completely certain why I changed it. It may have been because the series is listed with the full name, including number in Worldcat. Regardless, I've changed it back. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 08:02, 17 April 2022 (EDT)
No worries, thanks. ErsatzCulture 16:55, 17 April 2022 (EDT)

Greyfax Grimwald

For Greyfax Grimwald, would you mind if I import the title "Greyfax Grimwald (maps)" [6] for the maps that start on page 5? Thanks! Phil 08:28, 19 April 2022 (EDT)

I wouldn't mind at all. Please do. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:28, 19 April 2022 (EDT)

King Solomon's Mines; Allan Quatermain

Hi, Ron. I have submitted numerous Title Update for the H. Rider Haggard series. Some assign OMNIBUS or COLLECTION(*) to series Allan Quatermain without reporting the series numbers (the Contents field?).

Two of those, with Note to Moderator "9th of numerous" and "10th of numerous" include correction "Alan"=>"Allan" in the title. --both with Note to Moderator that "I intend to consult Rtrace".

  • Series numbers are 18, 15 (9th of numerous) and 15, 18.
Are you asking because the order of the novels differs between the two publications? If so, I wouldn't give it too much thought. We don't have the contents sorted in either publication, so the order in which they appear is not enforced. We could force them into the order that the titles appear on the cover, but we'd still end up with the two publications showing the titles in different orders.--Ron ~ RtraceTalk 22:02, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
OK. PubUpdate 5320988 does re-order the 1956 Globe as on its cover, thus in series order "15, 18"; alongside other changes. --P64
  • The latter contains adapted texts.

Maybe the variant relation should be questioned.

Adaptations are a little tricky and the cover scan and the note about the publication containing adapted editions appears to have been added after the two titles were connected. Tuck, which was my source makes no mention of adaptation.--Ron ~ RtraceTalk 22:02, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
[a] Adaptation. Thanks. I was concerned about adaptation also in relation to the children's picture book "Rip Van Winkle" by Washington Irving --now revised as by John Howe and Washington Irving T3029742. Retelling for a picture book text is far from adapting as a novel for latterday teens. Perhaps the adult-to-teen adaptation --even when credited in the book-- should be retained as a single work. --P64

On the other hand, we have another OMNIBUS of the same series Contents #15, 18; with update in the queue from a couple hours ago as "6th of several". With its one publication PVerified.

  • Its title contains unspaced slash "/" where you use spaced " / ".

Front cover image shows division in two horizontal panels, bottom panel for the first of its contents and top panel for the second. --not bound back-to-back with two front covers.

This one definitely appears to be a duplicate of the one you marked "10th of numerous" above. The two publication records should be combined. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 22:02, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
parent Omnibus. NewPub submission 5321713 adds the 1928 parent-to-be KSM and AQ. I can't live with either undated or adapted as the parent; all three will be variants later.
[b] Heritability. Can the juvenile=Yes, as the 1956 OMNIBUS T{{|1140458}} is now tagged, be combined with the original in a variant relation? I suppose not and will soon learn. (If not then it needs move to the series.) --P64
  • (*) Where a Haggard COLLECTION contains a novel, we say [I had supposed Allan's Wife too short, but it is a NOVEL; corrected in the submission queue --05-19], I ignored that issue. Do we permit both COLLECTION and OMNIBUS given one genuine novel in the contents?
I'm not sure that I understand this question. There is some leeway in the rules for classifying a book as a Collection when it contains a novel, especially if the other contents are otherwise uncollected stories. The ones being discussed above are clearly OMNIBUS publications. Is there a specific example that prompted this question? --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 22:02, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
[c] 1889 COLLECTION Allan's Wife and Other Tales T989612 contains the novel Allan's Wife and three short stories.
OK, there is leeway re Collection and Omnibus, something I had forgotten in two years. Generally I am happy to avoid Omnibus. One downside is that we permit Contents "2, 6, 4, 7" only for the Omnibus. TitleUpdate 5321417 makes the series numbers explicit in the title Note. --P64

This note is not ideally organized. On one count I have four questions (bullet points).
Now I must go spend the rest of the month eating and drinking. --Pwendt|talk 21:29, 30 April 2022 (EDT)

Answers inline above. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 22:02, 30 April 2022 (EDT)
(continued from inline and this level indentation above)
--P64 2022-05-19 (draft revised -05-20 and now extended)
[d] Non-genre. T989636 Allan Quatermain #4 "Hunter Quatermain's Story" is non-genre=No with this 2019 note by User Stonecreek (moments after approving my Note): "A hunting story with no obvious speculative elements, considered as speculative fiction nevertheless (because of the genre character Allan Quatermain)."
That revised note may be reasonable but we should retain non-genre=Yes. Do you agree? I have such TitleUpdate 5322459 in the queue, which contains also a word count decisive for re-class as short story.
--Pwendt|talk 19:23, 20 May 2022 (EDT)

Quick Question

Ron,There are multiple unsourced first publication citations in the submission queue, should I be approving them? I always note the source in mine. John Scifibones 08:47, 1 May 2022 (EDT)

Generally no. You can do your own research and approve after you've verified, but other moderators may question as to why you approved something. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:37, 1 May 2022 (EDT)

The Prophet of Akhran / excerpt

Any chance the 'Death's Gate' excerpt in [7] is actually 'Dragon Wing'? (I'm cloning a 7th printing). --Glenn 18:23, 6 May 2022 (EDT)

ping... in case you missed this. --Glenn 00:16, 17 May 2022 (EDT)
Sorry. I did miss it. It may be from Dragon Wing. However, the title of the excerpt only stated that it's a preview from the series "Death's Gate" and no other title is given. I wouldn't want to change how it's titled. We can make it a variant though, if it's the same excerpt. Mine begins "The captive assassin, known throughout the realm as Hugh the Hand..." and ends "'My ten year old son' said the king." --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 06:43, 17 May 2022 (EDT)
Hmmm. My copy has "The Death Gate Cycle" at the top of the excerpt 'title' page, and "The following scene gives us an irresistible taste of world of Dragon Wing, the first novel in The Death Gate Cycle, and ..." at the bottom of the page. And it starts "Coming close to Hugh the Hand". --Glenn 22:47, 26 May 2022 (EDT)

Arthurian romances

I'm considering cleaning up Chrétien de Troyes titles. He has five Arthurian romances, all in excess of 40K words. ( I used Word to count the number of words in each story from an epub on gutenburg). I believe that they should all be entered as novels, and then all of the variants need to be cleaned up to point to the 5 original Old French base titles. You've PVed a collection which would become an omnibus if I'm correct. I've also reach out Linquist for comments here. Any concerns/thoughts? Tom 11:46, 7 May 2022 (EDT)

Hi Tom
Actually, I only did a secondary verification of the collection. I did pose a question back when I entered that record, but didn't get much in the way of a response. The issue here is that the original works are poems in old French and the translations are usually done as prose. We have a policy to not change length due to translation (e.g. novella translated as a novelette) and to keep the length of the parent title. We don't have the original poems listed (there may be one). It may be worth re-posing the question more simply than I did i.e. How do we want to treat prose translations of poems? --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:31, 10 May 2022 (EDT)

Princess of All Lands

Changed page count of this Russell Kirk collection from 228 to 238 based on copy someone recently uploaded to Archive.org. --Username 12:31, 7 May 2022 (EDT)

The Tower on the Rift

For The Tower on the Rift, would it be OK to:
Add essay title "Glossary of Characters, Names and Places (The Tower on the Rift)" on page 643
Add essay title "Guide to Pronunciation (The Tower on the Rift)" on page [659]

Thanks! Phil 07:50, 8 May 2022 (EDT)

That's all fine. Please proceed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:33, 10 May 2022 (EDT)

Douglas Adams Book

So what exactly does your copy say? If you're going to reject an edit you should specify what was different; I suspect the confusion is explained by the article I linked from existentialennui.com, where the edition most people believe is the first is actually the book club edition, which your copy probably is because you didn't enter a price, with the one I entered being the actual first edition. Should that be made a separate record? Not having the real HC original of this very important SF work is a glaring omission, I should think. --Username 12:16, 16 May 2022 (EDT)

You're missing the point of the message with the rejection. Why would you have submitted this edit without checking with me first? I know that I have explained this to you before as have several other moderators, yet you persist in editing verified publications without contacting active verifiers prior to submitting. You should also not upload new images of verified publications without either checking active verfiers or when verifiers are not active, then with the moderator notice board. Only after the verifer has agreed to the edit, should you proceed. As far as this book goes, it is quite likely that my copy is a book club edition as indicated in the article you posted. It does not have a price, nor does it include an ad on the back of the jacket. That being said, of course the trade edition should be entered as a separate publication record as we do with all different or variant editions. You can go ahead and clone that publication record to create one for the trade edition. As an aside, the hardcover is not the original edition. The first several books in the series were all paperback originals published by Pan. I recall reading this either in one of the essays in The Salmon of Doubt or in Neil Gaiman's book about the series. As I recall, Adams was unable to find a hardcover publisher and thus signed the deal with Pan. This, of course, agrees with an update in blog you cite. I am skeptical of the dates in that blog, especially given the author's initial confusion about the first edition. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:41, 16 May 2022 (EDT)
I've contacted you and others many times about changes; sometimes I forget or didn't think it was necessary. I know the Pan PB edition was first; that's why I specified "HC original". Also, I didn't change your info, just added the price, although maybe the new cover was a stretch; I've already mentioned somewhere earlier today that I'm going to limit newly uploaded Wiki covers to those from people no longer editing here, which will limit the complaining. Turns out your copy was the book club edition most people assume is the Barker trade HC, but since you didn't note that in Notes I assumed you had a copy missing the price. Something's odd about the fact that out of all the old SF specialists and experts that have edited here, a complete amateur like me was the first to note that the real Barker edition was never entered for a work of such importance as this. I'm paranoid about this now, so I'm going to leave it alone. If you and some of the others want to discuss it and enter this or any other missing edition, feel free. I've learned it's better to enter something wrong here and fix it and get it entered than to wait around for an answer that may not come for a long time, because by the time it does I've forgotten why I asked it in the first place. --Username 23:39, 16 May 2022 (EDT)


I made another edit for 30 Days of Night with just the OL ID; it clearly says October on the copyright page, but I'm not bothering with that again. As I've mentioned more than once, the PV MLB told me many months ago, after I'd corrected countless errors in his edits, to just go ahead and fix any minor mistakes I came across, of which changing the month to match what it says in the book itself is certainly one. He didn't write a note about the month and so where he got September from is unknown. --Username 10:08, 17 May 2022 (EDT)

Well, since he verified it, you could ask him what his source was for the date. MLB has no note on his talk page stating that he doesn't require pre-notification for edits. If you have a special relationship with MLB, then you should probably state that in the notes for the moderator. If you have mentioned it several times, as you say, I cannot find it in my talk page. Even if you mentioned it on some other board, you can't expect a moderator to remember such an exception, so adding a note would be a better solution. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:22, 17 May 2022 (EDT)

15 Satan-Stories

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5315471; Rudam responded and said it's exactly the same as his cover. --Username 11:13, 17 May 2022 (EDT)

30 Days of Night Date

see MLB's page for the answer to what to do with my edit. --Username 19:33, 17 May 2022 (EDT)

Bad Wizard

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?487539; Baloon-Balloon. --Username 11:47, 22 May 2022 (EDT)

That's fine and I will approve it. However, you need to wait until I've agreed to the edit before you submit it. That's our procedure. Please try to follow it going forward. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 12:23, 22 May 2022 (EDT)
It's been several days since one of my edits was approved; there are about 630 of mine in the queue. By the time someone got around to approving this specific one, which is near the top of the queue, you would have long answered to this change since you usually respond quickly unlike many others here, and if you affirmed your copy had the wrong spelling I would have just cancelled my edit changing it to the correct one. The fact that no one noticed this misspelled publisher since your PV was made more than 7 years ago, considering that many of the other books by the author are from the same publisher (spelled correctly), is telling. I don't have time to wait around for people to answer; I enter many edits every day and cancel the occasional one if necessary. That's my procedure. --Username 12:48, 22 May 2022 (EDT)
And your procedure is contrary to the accepted etiquette for editing here. I have explained how things are done and what is expected. Rather than explaining why you believe your are exempt from these rules, you should make the effort to submit edits properly. That may be part of the reason your edits are waiting in the queue. Really, if you don't have time to wait for people to answer, then you don't have time to edit primary verified records. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 14:10, 22 May 2022 (EDT)
My (very short) list of PV includes 2 that were changed by you without contacting me about them first. Also, starting tomorrow, I will try to remember that if I do any edits and that box pops up telling me someone PV it and I need to explain my changes, I'm just going to cancel my edit because, regardless of the fact that in almost every case where I've changed something it turned out to be correct, most people here are way too touchy and it's not worth arguing about and takes time away from me entering more edits. So whenever y'all get around to clearing my queue and you reject some of the edits because I didn't check first with the (sometimes long-gone but never tagged as such) PV I'm not going to bother looking at it again, so remember that in case you want to do some edits for them yourselves. Looking at the bottom of my (now 650) edits I see most are not being held back because of any PV issues, so that excuse doesn't fly. Who cares, I'm not getting paid for any of this, so whatever. I wish people here would use their energy to build on my edits and discuss some of the tens of thousands of them I've done or answer any of my hundreds of questions on the message boards rather than waste their time nitpicking, especially since I've corrected COUNTLESS errors made by many of the same editors/moderators who complain. --Username 15:00, 22 May 2022 (EDT)

The Scar

Would you double check the author credit for The Scar in your verified 525611 and 725833? An editor pointed out that it should be Ramus. The Internet Archive scan of the original validates that. I assume the reprints would match the original. I already checked the verified ebook via the Amazon Look Inside and it does use Ramus. If you confirm yours match, I will reject the edit and instead change the author's name. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 13:47, 22 May 2022 (EDT)

Please go ahead and do so. It should be "Ramus". Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 14:14, 22 May 2022 (EDT)

Peeping Tom Patrol

I wouldn't have added it if there weren't contents already on ISFDB, like the title story by M. Shaara, H. Slesar's story, and R. Matheson's story, plus most of the other authors are genre writers on ISFDB even if their stories in this volume aren't. --Username 11:15, 24 May 2022 (EDT)

It would have been helpful had you noted this in the notes to moderator with the submission. I'll approve it, but you probably should also mark the anthology as non-genre. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:20, 24 May 2022 (EDT)
Um, it is marked as non-genre. Unless you just did that yourself? --Username 11:34, 24 May 2022 (EDT)

The Wind's Twelve Quarters 3rd printing

Based on the printing history on the 4th printing copyright page here, I'd like to change the date on the 3rd printing to 1977-09-00 and add a source note. Would that be a problem? Phil 06:56, 25 May 2022 (EDT)

I have no objections. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 06:58, 25 May 2022 (EDT)

The Third Eagle

On the title page of my copy of The Third Eagle there is what looks like a subtitle under the drawing. Based on this, I would like to change the title to "The Third Eagle: Lessons Along a Minor String". The record for the Doubleday hardcover edition has this subtitle and this pub is stated as being the complete text of that edition. Would it be OK to make the change? Phil 07:24, 31 May 2022 (EDT)

I am OK with the proposed change. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:27, 31 May 2022 (EDT)

Many Are Rejected, But Few Are Chosen

1) Son of the Flying Tiger copy on Archive.org (and Scribd, I see) is most likely a bootleg done without permission, so I don't think I should enter it (publisher has no ISFDB page);

If you have a source that it is a bootleg, then you can note that. Whether or not it was published legally, it was still published and therefore we should record it.

everything from front and back covers to title and copyright pages is original, with just the insertion of the 2020 note.

What evidence do you have that the type was not re-set?

I doubt a low-rent publisher like Freeway Press included 8 pages of extra material at the back of the original edition, especially since they didn't publish enough books to fill 8 pages assuming those extra pages were nothing but ads for their other books. But I'll ask about this on the boards and see if anyone has an original copy; I have a feeling the page count's probably going to be 181;

2) This link, https://archive.org/stream/Science_Fiction_Chronicle_v19n0708_1998-06/Science_Fiction_Chronicle_v19n0708_1998-06_djvu.txt, says Cherished Blood was $14.95 and so does Amazon; I think the price is right but Cecilia Tan's other books on Archive.org, Selling Venus and Blood Kiss, say printed in the USA so I don't know what's to be done about this.

Circlet is a US publisher. Well either Locus or SF Chronicle is mistaken, or one of them is referring to a Canadian edition.

3) http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Help_desk#Rotating_Covers; I asked about the L. A. Lewis collection there, and now that the uploaded cover's not being used it should be deleted from the Wiki (http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Image:TLSFTHGRTS2014.jpg);

That's really buried in a discussion that initially discusses a different publication. At the point it was decided you no longer wanted to replaced the cover, you could have gone back and cancelled the submission. I've deleted the stray upload, but it would have been better had you done a new post on the Moderator board asking only to delete the upload as it would not be used.

4) I did consult with the PV for Starbright here, http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:GlennMcG#Starbright, and they OK'd it; and my note details where the easy-to-miss signature on the cover is located and is a verification of the guess the PV made about artist's identity (and the PV who made that guess is not the active one, so consulting with the other PV about that note is pointless because they didn't write it).

Ideally, you would note that he had agreed to your proposed changed in the the note to the moderator. However, since you submitted the edit on 5/24 and his response is dated 5/26 I don't know how you could have known that he would be OK with the change. GlennMcG does not have a note stating that he does not require pre-notification. As has been explained before, you need to ask before you submit an edit, and only submit if the primary verifiers agree. As to the note about guessing who the artist is, it is unnecessary and confusing if we are stating that the artist is identified by a signature. Why would we offer a guess, when we have the signature?
So am I supposed to re-enter an edit for this with the Archive link and cover artist or are you going to un-reject it at some point? --Username 22:17, 31 May 2022 (EDT)
I will, but only if you agree to fix the notes as discussed after the first edit is approved. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:36, 1 June 2022 (EDT)

5) Why would I consult with MLB about replacing a cover he didn't upload himself but just got from Amazon? Plus it's one of those unstable "P" images which I replace whenever I see them, so it needed replacing. --Username 19:15, 31 May 2022 (EDT)

Because as has been explained before, you need to consult with active primary verifiers before changing data on their publications. Did someone suggest that there is an exception when the original data is from Amazon? There is no such exception and MLB has not stated that he does not want to be pre-notified.
See MLB's board under "Amazon Images" for your answer to this one. --Username 22:33, 31 May 2022 (EDT)
There is no such heading on MLB's talk page. If there were, you should mention it in the note to the moderator with your submission. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:36, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:MLB#Amazon_Images. --Username 10:17, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
Sorry, I thought you were referring to an old conversation and I already had MLB's page open from when I first checked if you had conversed before rejecting the submission and didn't think to refresh it. I've unrejected and approved. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:19, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
Answers inline above. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:28, 31 May 2022 (EDT)

1953 Weird Tales

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?62047; The Speight story is from 1905; http://www.philsp.com/homeville/fmi/n07/n07049.htm#A93. --Username 10:11, 4 June 2022 (EDT)

OK. I've added that issue of Cassell's. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:32, 4 June 2022 (EDT)

3 Rejects

1) http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5329693; You'd think after 3 checks with editors recently where they all said I don't need to check with them before replacing cover images that it wouldn't be an issue anymore, but I guess not. The image is clearly the same, but if you don't think so, fine; I'm not checking anything. You can check with PV if you want to.

GlennMcG has no notice at the top of his talk page indicating that he allows this sort of edit without prenotification. If you have some side agreement, please reference it in the notes to the moderator. As I mentioned in the rejection notice, the problem with the Amazon P and G URLs is that they are unstable and could have changed since the link was first added, which is why it's best to check with the verifier.

2) http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5329951; You seriously rejected all that info I entered because of a date fix? If you look at all the story dates (except the last reprint) you'll see they have the late September date, which was the Amazon date when the book was actually published, https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Lori-Perkins/dp/0312650795/, and editors didn't change the book dates to match so I did. Totally unnecessary rejection.

When the amazon date disagrees with that in the book, we go with the date in the book. Your edit changed two title records to the incorrect data and added two additional ones with the incorrect date. Additionally, many of the incorrect dates could also have been corrected with this edit, but were not.
I'm not going to bother with the others, but I'm not losing this one after all I entered. Un-reject this and then I'll change the dates back to book date;
Yes, I can do this. Please proceed with changing the dates back to October 2010.
Done. --Username 18:08, 7 June 2022 (EDT)
also, why did previous editor (book hasn't been worked on for 10 years or so, but one of those editors is still active) make all the dates Amazon's if the rule is to go with the book date?
Chris J is active and you can ask them. However, they probably won't recall specifics from an edit from 2012. Aside from that Chris' edit changed date of the publication record only and neither the content records nor the container title record.
Do you know how many countless records I've come across where the date is Amazon's if that date is more specific? Why is this suddenly a rule now that I made all the dates uniform in this edit?
That doesn't matter and a date that is more specific than one mentioned in a book is fine, so long as it's sourced. A date from Amazon that contradicts a date in the book, however, should not be used. i.e. if Amazon had the date 10/5/2010, that would have been OK, since it agrees with October 2010 from the book.
Also, I don't know if you know, but Rudam approved all 4 covers I added to his books recently and said I don't have to check with him about covers anymore unless it's those very specific cases he mentioned in his note.
You can have side agreements with any editor. However, please include a link to the post where they gave you permission to make changes without notification, in the notes to the moderator. A moderator will check notes at the top of the verifier's talk page to see if they have edits for which they don't require notification. Rudam has no such note.
Also also, I see you just rejected 14 Vicious Valentines and Prince Dande Lion cover replacements; I see I've left several notes on PV's board which he never responded to, so I'm not going to bother with this one.
Darrah may take a while to respond per the note on his talk page. Additionally, did not ask you to wait for a response as is required for others. However, slowness to respond is not a reason to ignore his instructions for notification. If you continue to invent reasons that you feel you don't need to notify verifiers, your edits will continue to be rejected.
Cover replacements and variants are minor stuff; I'm letting those go and only fighting for stuff I enter myself, like this one. --Username 11:03, 7 June 2022 (EDT)
Variants are actually quite important.

3) http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5329960; Who cares if there's a need? If I do it in 2 steps, it still gets done. I don't even remember what the issue was here because it was so long between when I made the edit and it was finally looked at, so forget it. --Username 10:28, 7 June 2022 (EDT)

Well, the moderators care. Also, I would think you would since you don't recall what you were doing, and that is only half of what is being attempted. You complain that it's taking too long to moderate your edits while stating that you want to do two edits where one would suffice. There were no notes for the moderator in this edit explaining what you were attempting to do, so that was additional work you made for the moderator. A note also would have jogged your memory as to what you were attempting. After doing research myself, it looks like you were attempting to change the the author's name to add the middle initial of the canonical name. That is the best guess that I have given the lack of explanation.
I see you were the editor for 1 of Gresh's records for "Julia Brainchild" nearly 10 years ago because you PV Eldritch Evolutions; the other record under Gresh's alternate name was by BLongley, who I don't believe is here anymore. So if you want to fix the confusion with this story you're the only active PV. --Username 18:08, 7 June 2022 (EDT)
The record in the Chaosium edition of Eldritch Evolutions is correct. While the cover lacks the initial, the title page has "Lois H. Gresh". It appears that the later eBook was entered incorrectly, which complicates matters. I had thought that there was no need for a variant title, but all the Book View Café edition contents need to be fixed as does the title record. I'll go ahead and fix the title in Hungry for Your Love so that I can fix the eBook version. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:24, 7 June 2022 (EDT)
Answers inline above. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:46, 7 June 2022 (EDT)
Additional comments inline.--Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:56, 7 June 2022 (EDT)


http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?201517; FantLab ID and pub. series (Corwin) added. --Username 13:26, 7 June 2022 (EDT)

Titles and ellipsis

This submission is my fault. His initial edit was to variant the two titles. I told him to merge rather than variant since we were 'regularizing' the titles for the ellipsis. If you look at the link in the title record here and the publication record here, there are no spaces. Just letting you know in case you want to accept the original submission. John Scifibones 12:42, 8 June 2022 (EDT)

I think we're good. The issue with the one I rejected is that he took the un-regularized title rather than the regular one. Merging is good, we just needed to keep the other title. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 13:01, 8 June 2022 (EDT)

Night Terrors

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?947824; I unmerged original appearance in Night Terrors; I assume when that's approved then title should be renamed and then varianted to longer title, which seems to be the way it was titled in Castle's collections. Also, by changing "Gull Tender" author Kenneth C. Goldman to Ken Goldman now there's a variant that shouldn't be there. I made an edit zeroing it but cancelled that because I'm not sure that's the way to get rid of it. --Username 10:58, 9 June 2022 (EDT)

In that case, you should wait until after the unmerge is approved before submitting an edit to change the title. Otherwise, you'll end up changing it everywhere it occurs. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:01, 9 June 2022 (EDT)

King of Kor

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?252719; Added cover. --Username 10:18, 12 June 2022 (EDT)

Lester Dent Essay

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=pulp+paper+m&type=All+Titles; Since you're working on Doc Savage, do you know if these are the same and should be merged? --Username 18:42, 14 June 2022 (EDT)

It's clear from the copyright page of the Weinberg book that they are the same essay. However, they shouldn't be merged as the titles are different. I actually own a copy of the Weinberg book and I've no idea why I hadn't verified it before. Anyway, I've made the variant relationship. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:28, 14 June 2022 (EDT)

Wonderful Electric Elephant

I had a feeling something was wrong here, and it seems the real cover for the 1st book, https://www.amazon.com/wonderful-electric-elephant-Montgomery-Illustrated/dp/B001NBQPUY, is not the same as the sequel; Coolidge did art for 1st book and Eldod for 2nd. You're in the edit history, so I don't know if you added that 1st book's cover, but the variant cover info that I entered needs to be broken since the 2 books have different artists. --Username 11:45, 15 June 2022 (EDT)

To undo your edit, just edit the current child record using the "Make This Title a Variant" tool, and set the parent record to 0. The image for The Wonderful Electric Elephant was added by Chris J and you can ask him if he can recall his source. The cover artist was added before the earliest edit in the history, but there's a note as to its source. I don't know if that was indented to be SFE3 or is indicating some other source. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 13:32, 15 June 2022 (EDT)

A Corner In Sleep

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?302868; I uploaded cover image from L.W. Currey's site. --Username 12:02, 15 June 2022 (EDT)


https://www.amazon.com/Clive-Barkers-Nightbreed-Making-Film/dp/0006381367; I did some Clive Barker edits recently, and just noticed that you entered that book recently, but photos reveal the publisher is Fontana / Collins and it includes a screenplay, not fiction. Also, the Amazon cover is one of those annoying "spotlight" covers and so isn't suitable for adding here. So if you want to fix/add anything, I'm letting you know. --Username 11:47, 16 June 2022 (EDT)

Feel free to refine the publisher if you'd like. Screenplays are essentially the same thing as play scripts, which we treat as SHORTFICTION usually without a length, which is how this one is treated. You'll also notice that the fact it is a screenplay is noted on the title record for that item. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:37, 16 June 2022 (EDT)
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2910729; Are you sure? I don't see the word "screenplay" anywhere. I think I'll just try to find a good cover image to add, and leave the info alone. --Username 18:26, 16 June 2022 (EDT)
That's the title record for the book i.e. the container title, you want to look at this record. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:28, 16 June 2022 (EDT)
OK, I see it now. --Username 18:46, 16 June 2022 (EDT)

Bloomsbury Good Reading Guide

The cover art of this is taken from Nebula SF #25, there credited to K. T. McIntyre (Ken McIntyre). Horzel 08:12, 17 June 2022 (EDT)

The Undead

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295717; So you just approved 85 of my edits in 45 minutes and 1 of them had a minor problem where I didn't specify why I changed the page count and you're complaining at length about that? Seriously, 1 out of 85? Would you like me to go through the tens of thousands of edits I've done and find how many errors I've had to fix that were either entered by you or by someone else and then approved by you? I'm tired of having to re-do rejections as I explained recently, so in the future if you have a problem with any of my edits just leave a note about what your problem with them are on my message board and I'll take care of it. Trying to remember all the convoluted rules of entry that even people who've been here since the beginning of the site don't always understand is tough sometimes. Also, as I've said before, the reason I try to add as few links to Archive.org as possible and instead enter OL links where people can choose whether THEY want to click on the Archive link is because many, probably the majority, of the books and other material on there isn't really supposed to be there. People just upload whatever they feel like, which is why so much of it gets taken down. EDIT: I've made another edit fixing the page count and adding a note. --Username 13:10, 17 June 2022 (EDT)

The complaint about your failure to source your edit was not why the edit was rejected. Since I had to reject it anyway, I took the opportunity to point out that you could have made the moderator's life easier by noting the source of your data. Yes, you added an OL link, but in order for my to find the page count, I had to navigate to OL, then click to get their preview, then another click to get the Internet Archive. Yes a direct link to the archive would have been easier and your reason for not including one makes no sense. Users still have a choice on whether or not to click on an IA link whether it's linked from us or from OL. Whether the scan belongs on IA is of no consequence to us. We are not providing a scan of material under copyright, merely a link to a site. Regardless, that is also not what I asked. All I asked is that you provide the source of your data in the note to the moderator. Had you done so, I wouldn't have had to guess what was your source, which takes more of my time. By making it harder to approve your edits, you ensure that fewer edits, both yours and others, get approved in the amount of time that moderators are willing to spend working the queue. However, this was all coincidental and had that been all that was wrong with the edit, I would not have rejected it. The problem was with the notes. When making a change to the notes, you need to look at the context of the other notes that are there. In this case, the first item in the list is "Information from Amazon Look Inside and Locus1." Given that Amazon Look Inside would not give you a page count, the page count had to come from Locus1. I looked there and found the existing page count (link was provided in the rejection note). So the record before you got to it assumed that the Locus1 page count of 260 was correct, and noted that Worldcat had a page count that differed from what we had recorded. You edit changed the page count based scan, which is good. After that, there is no reason to note what Worldcat has at all. It can be assumed to be correct. But as our page count would then disagree with Locus1, that would then need to be noted. I see that your new edit brings OL as an additional incorrect page count, but still reiterates the correct Worldcat count for no reason, and still fails to note that the Locus1 count is incorrect. This is precisely why I will not, as you suggest, approve your incorrect edits and then leave a note on your talk page. I'd rather that incorrect data not get introduced. Especially since you have a tendency to push back and argue about any criticism of your edits.
As I noted, your second edit for this title is still has problems. I'm going to reject it and fix it myself rather than spending any more time on this publication. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 16:15, 17 June 2022 (EDT)
A few observations. I wasn't asking you to approve edits that you think are incorrect and then leave me a note, I was asking you to leave me a note about any edits you think are incorrect without rejecting them so I can look them over, decide if I agree with your complaints, and then either fix them or cancel them if I don't agree. Having, sometimes, to re-enter a whole bunch of different info because you had a problem with 1 little piece of it is very tiresome. Also, while looking over your edit, which looks pretty close to what I wrote, I noticed you wrote "a the scan" in the notes, which I assume you didn't mean to write, so I fixed that for you (hope you don't mind). While doing so, I noticed that 2 external ID fields were filled but someone left a 3rd one empty as if they were going to enter another ID and then changed their mind; I decided it needed filling so I looked at LCCN, which has nothing, and then found that Goodreads has it, so I filled the empty field with their ID. While doing so, I noticed they also have entries for Kindle, Nook and Smashwords editions, and while looking at those online it seems they, for some reason, changed the cover artist's name on the copyright page from Shelley Bergen to Alejandro Shelley Bergen; looking back at the print copy, I then noticed that the cover art actually has a title, "Glutton", in that edition, so I also added that info in an edit. Then I noticed that while the book is from October 2005, 2 of the stories have a 2001 date on the copyright page, 1 story has a 2003 date, and the rest have a 2004 date, but all the stories on ISFDB were entered as if they were original when it seems that possibly none of them were; maybe many of them were written for some old zombie website like the Cthulhu stories I entered links for recently from Mythos Online. Doing a quick check of the contents to make sure everything matched, only 1 name was different, Russell Calhoun being Russell A. Calhoun on the story page, and after fixing that learned the full name is already on ISFDB, but confusingly it's for the same story in 2 widely separated issues of Black Petals; there's no Part I and II or anything like that, so why this is is a mystery. Also, Black Petals issues #21-41 were entered with the issue # in the title field, and I know you like to fix those, so I'm letting you know. So there's a few more edits from me in the queue now, and there possibly could be more in the future for this book and related matters detailed above. --Username 19:50, 17 June 2022 (EDT)


http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2742703; Should that be Charles? He has other Weird Tales credits. --Username 11:12, 19 June 2022 (EDT)

Yes. I've merged the author records. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:55, 19 June 2022 (EDT)

Gray Lensman and Second Stage Lensman

I added the number of trade edition copies for these two Fantasy Press pubs. I acquired the numbered editions of these, and they note that the total number of copies for each is 5000, with 500 of them being numbered and signed. My copy of "Children of the Lens" is a trade copy, but I suspect probably is limited to 5000 copies as well. Bob 22:17, 24 June 2022 (EDT)

Hi Bob
This is basically fine. I'm going to suggest a small change. Both Chalker/Owings and Eshbach's Over My Shoulder have actual print counts, though they disagree about Second Stage Lensman. I know you added notes to other pubs from Chalker's column in Fantasy Review, but I don't know that he ever covered Smith as these were outside the scope of the magazine. In any case, For GL, the actual count is 5,096. For SSL, C/O has 4,934 and OMS has 4,962. I'd trust the second number since it was Eshbach's press. I would word it something like "5,096 copies printed per Chalker/Owings (5,000 stated on the signature page), of which 500 were signed and numbered by the author on a tipped in signature page" I'll leave it up to you. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:36, 25 June 2022 (EDT)
One other point from C/O. Both of these had Greenberg variant bindings. For GL, they say there were an indeterminate number (not more that 300-400) bound in light blue with black lettering. For SSL, 28 copies bound in red boards. I assume you know about the Fantasy Press Greenberg variants, but I can explain if you don't. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:44, 25 June 2022 (EDT)

The Great Book of Thrillers

Hi, Ron. You verified 1935 anthology The Great Book of Thrillers P710880 from several secondary sources, as containing "The Glyston Slander" by Herbert Jenkins, p352-70.

WorldCat OCLC 13475298 does list that variant title. I wonder whether some other sources do so. Per FictionMags Index the original 1920 title is "The Gylston Slander", which is the title at Project Gutenberg ebook 28084 (print source unknown) and in the 1991 anthology Great Tales of Terror. --Pwendt|talk 19:36, 26 June 2022 (EDT)

Hi Pwendt -
That story is not one of those detailed by Bleiler's Supernatural Fiction. Tuck has it as "The Gylston Slander". The other sources don't detail contents. I expect that I cut and pasted the titles from the Worldcat record to avoid introducing new typos. I also suspect that I got the page numbers from Ashely and Contento's Supernatural Index, which does list this edition and has that story with "Gylston". Worldcat appears to be the only outlier. I think we should probably go ahead and merge the titles favoring Gylston. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:07, 26 June 2022 (EDT)
Submitted. I have SHORTFICTION "Gylston Slander" title note in the queue, and that one carries the lower-number Title ID --which is the ID we always retain, if I understand the views correctly. --Pwendt
https://picclick.com/The-Great-Book-of-Thrillers-Hardback-303244781275.html; It says "Gylston" on contents page, and mentions on copyright page that it comes from Malcolm Sage, Detective, where it's also "Gylston" as seen here, https://archive.org/details/malcolmsagedete00jenkgoog (although it's Chapter XIII, so this is some fix-up novel or something); it's also here, https://archive.org/details/TheGylstonSlander, and searching for the title in "text contents" on Archive.org shows it in other non-ISFDB anthologies. Searching for the misspelled title only brought up this, https://archive.org/details/vintagemysteryde0000unse, where they spelled it "Glyston" in the story intro but correctly everywhere else. --Username 21:38, 26 June 2022 (EDT)
Malcolm Sage, Detective is some sort of fix-up, whose nature must be revealed approximately by the fact that chapter titles 2,4,6 and 9,11,13,15 match the seven 1920 magazine story "Episode" titles. --Pwendt|talk 14:09, 27 June 2022 (EDT)

Dell Emerald

[8]; I added/fixed stuff for 2 Kaye Dobkin books you entered recently, but I didn't do anything with your making Dell Emerald a pub. series. Emerald was an imprint, and list linked above shows 9 books with the slash and 1 without, so mods will need to figure out what's best. --Username 10:52, 28 June 2022 (EDT)

Land Beyond the Map

Hi, could you give your opinion about changing the cover art credit of Land Beyond the Map to John Schoenherr, at Willem H.'s talk page? Thanks. Horzel 16:53, 28 June 2022 (EDT)

Dimension of Illion

Hi, Ron. You are one secondary verifier of the 1955 Dimension of Illion by Irving Heine. Moments ago my submission 5353483 extends the publication Note to explain its references to the "pseudonym attribution" --Heine as a pseudonym of Denis Hughes-- that was removed from the database today, adding a new author Note for Heine.

I don't know whether SFE alone attributed the work to Hughes or there were others. Maybe you prefer to shorten the Note instead; remove mention of the pseudonym entirely. Perhaps that should depend on whether Reginald attributes the work to Hughes. ... Evidently you tagged the Tuck verification last year, but Dragoondelight wrote the Note years ago. --Pwendt|talk 16:31, 1 July 2022 (EDT)

Clute/Nicholls states that Heine is a pseudonym of Hughes. Tuck does not connect Heine to Hughes. Reginald state that Heine is a pseudonym, but does not state an actual author. I actually think it would be best to remove all the notes about the pseudonym from the publication record. They made more sense when we had the variant relationship. Instead, I would add a note to the author record stating something like "Reginald1 states this is a pseudonym for an unidentified author. Clute/Nicholls had identified the actual author as Denis Hughes, but they subsequently retracted this attribution in SFE4 in June 2022." What do you think? --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 16:53, 1 July 2022 (EDT)
I had another to undo, E. R. Royce, now undone. (From co-editor David Langford [DRL], I learned that Royce had been identified as a Hughes pseudonym by their Hughes contributor Stephen Holland [SH], and later retracted by him decisively.) I understand that both of the lone works by Heine and Royce are deemed possibly or probably pseudonymous.
I agree that it's best to remove mention of the issue from the publication record, with caveat that some fiction title Note may be appropriate. At the moment, we do have three author Notes for Hughes, Heine, Royce, which I added this week. I'll consider further
First let me ask you about Royce, Experiment in Telepathy P266336 where we have no publication or title note, again your secondary verification from Reginald1 and Tuck. --Pwendt|talk 11:49, 7 July 2022 (EDT)
Neither Tuck nor Reginald suggest that Royce is a pseudonym, nor do they provide any biographic details, so I'm afraid that those sources are of no help. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:19, 7 July 2022 (EDT)
I agree with removing notes about the pseudonym from the publication record. I have submitted that "vacation" of the note, and submitted short title Notes for the Heine and Royce works. Submissions 5362873--76. The crucial title update subm 5362875 Dimension of Illion mentions Reginald1, Clute/Nicholls, and SFE4 approxly as you suggest above.
Author notes for Hughes, Heine, and Royce are mine from last week. ...
Ach, I need add Reginald's id of Heine as pseudonym for unknown: 5362887.
Do adjust if you think this is overkill. --Pwendt|talk 21:54, 11 July 2022 (EDT)
All looks good. There is no need to add an ID for Reginald for an author. He only uses ID for publications. Authors are listed simply by name. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 06:25, 12 July 2022 (EDT)

The Harlan Ellison Hornbook

Hi, a submission looks to fix a possible spelling mistake The Harlan Ellison Hornbook[9] can you check your copies. I've messaged the other PV. Thanks.Kraang 20:49, 2 July 2022 (EDT)

The edit is good for both editions of Hornbook and also for Edgeworks. Thanks for asking. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:58, 2 July 2022 (EDT)
Will approve. Thanks!Kraang 00:22, 3 July 2022 (EDT)

Ghosts by M.R. James

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1175900; Someone uploaded a copy of the 1987 R. Dalby anthology Ghosts and Scholars to Archive.org recently, and while adding an edit for it I noticed the essay by James, Ghosts-Treat Them Gently, has an exclamation point. As the only PV of an English-language book where it appears I thought you'd like to know in case you can verify it appears that way in all ISFDB entries so it can be changed; there's also the matter of the long dash, but that's another problem. --Username 22:19, 3 July 2022 (EDT)

Fixed. The Worlds Classics edition not only has the exclamation point, but also presents the titles in single quotes. I found a scan of the contents page for Dalby's other 1987 book which does not include the exclamation point. Without seeing the title page, I wouldn't want to change how it appears there. I have changed the others. I will state that the WC edition certainly does look like an em dash to me, as does the toc listing and the archive scan you mentioned. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 15:31, 4 July 2022 (EDT)


http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5356800; In typical FantLab fashion, the photos are a mishmash of both editions. That's why I added it to the main record rather than any individual one. --Username 12:39, 7 July 2022 (EDT)

There appears to be a single photo of the back cover of the paperback edition with the remainder as well as the text all referring to the hardcover. Additionally, Fantlab appears to have a separate page for the paperback. They do have a title level page which would be appropriate for our title record, but the others should be linked to the corresponding publication records. You could also link to the one photo on the wrong fantlab page directly under the Magnum publication record. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:14, 7 July 2022 (EDT)

Bending the Landscape

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?3997; I added Borealis to publisher and added catalog ID, WW 11011. --Username 08:44, 8 July 2022 (EDT)


http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?903935; This book I entered recently was just updated by you, but I think one of your new titles is in error. TheMak? --Username 10:12, 9 July 2022 (EDT)

Fixed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:42, 9 July 2022 (EDT)


https://frauenkultur.co.uk/they-will-know-me-by-my-teeth-stories-and-poems-of-lesbian-struggle-celebration-and-survival/; This page will likely give you more info to add to your recently added book. --Username 17:03, 9 July 2022 (EDT)

I've added the link and what I could glean from what appears to be a scan of the copyright page. Unfortunately, it's clearly a mixed collection of stories and poetry, so we can't really add the contents from a TOC alone. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:34, 9 July 2022 (EDT)
Her legal name, Nachman, only shows up 3 times on ISFDB, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=nachman&type=Name, and only one's a woman, so I think that Heather might be her, with a single review of a McCaffrey book. EDIT: Or not, since online info suggests Elana is her first name. Unless Heather's her middle name that she started using later in life when hippie names went out of style. --Username 18:14, 9 July 2022 (EDT)
Reginald lists her name as "pseud. of Elana Nachman/Dykewoman, originally Elana Nachman". Given how he lists it, I am guessing there was a legal name change, which is why I added the legal name as I did. I wouldn't think Heather is the same person. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:28, 9 July 2022 (EDT)

Oily Cover

I uploaded a cover for Centaurian Quest to replace the tiny Amazon one and just noticed one of those Oil covers from Hale you just added is the same cover. Hale didn't exactly put a lot of effort into their SF covers. --Username 21:34, 12 July 2022 (EDT)

The Dweller in the Gulf

Would you mind checking The Dweller in the Gulf? The Internet Archive of second printing shows the essay titled as "Foreword" and not "Introduction" as in the record for the third printing. I wanted double check it was not a database issue before unmerging and varianting the two. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:39, 13 July 2022 (EDT)

I can verify that my copy has the opening essay as "Introduction". The essay is the same as that in the second edition but with a different title. I checked Chalker/Owings who describe the first printing and they state "Introduction by Steve Behrends". I don't know that we should take that as absolute proof for how it is titled in the 1st printing, but it does suggest that it is "Introduction". Foreword may be the outlier. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:58, 13 July 2022 (EDT)
Thanks for checking. I unmerged just the 2nd edition's essay, changed it to Foreword, and varianted it to the original record. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:12, 13 July 2022 (EDT)

Mike and the Mods

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5355698; I wrote this dude asking him for help on this one but apparently he's had enough of the moderators and is taking a break judging by his response, so can this be un-rejected? --Username 07:33, 15 July 2022 (EDT)

Since he's opted not to respond, I've approved the edit. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:29, 15 July 2022 (EDT)


http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?907489; It's Fain; https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/the-burning/author/jeff-fain/. Also, the black cover seems to be a later edition with a higher price while that 1 red cover has a lower price and is probably the original edition. --Username 10:26, 22 July 2022 (EDT)

Fixed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:35, 22 July 2022 (EDT)

The Sundering Flood

For The Sundering Flood, would you mind if I change the page count to xv+238 and add the uncredited map on page [xv]? The current Roman numeral page count is incorrect since the last printed page number is xiii not xii. I'll also add cover artist, map artist, and ISBN/SBN notes. Thanks! Phil 07:06, 23 July 2022 (EDT)

This is basically fine. If it were me, I would probably not put the pager number of the map in square brackets and would consider this to fall within the "unnumbered page within a range of Roman-numeraled pages" exception on the help pages. The help pages are a little ambiguous in this particular situation. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:08, 24 July 2022 (EDT)
Thanks. Submitted without the brackets on the map page number. Phil 22:23, 24 July 2022 (EDT)

Height of the Scream

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?101601; I added page count's Roman numerals. --Username 09:40, 1 August 2022 (EDT)

Tales By Moonlight

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=ndi+jazz&type=All+Titles; My copy of the PB says "Jaborandi" on contents and title page, and the HC is searchable on Google Books and also says that; I think "Jaborondi" is a typo, both story title and art title. A quick check of the other titles seems to suggest they're all OK. --Username 21:07, 2 August 2022 (EDT)

I've corrected the typo. Thanks for finding this. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:22, 2 August 2022 (EDT)

The Calm

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5377086; It's not a scan of the entire anthology; it's only 20 pages long, as can be seen at the top. The first story by Dorr is included in its entirety in this sample PDF, so that's why it was added to that story's record. --Username 10:07, 3 August 2022 (EDT)

I still don't think it belongs on the story, especially since you have a separate edit to add it to publication record for the anthology. It also has the complete introduction, but I would also object to adding the scan to the introduction title record. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:55, 3 August 2022 (EDT)
Well, the thing is that some time ago I added a sample PDF of something and the first story was included, but I only added it to the book's record and not the story record. I can't quite recall what it was, but for this PDF I figured I'd do it right and add the sample to the book's record since it includes the copyright info and intro and stuff, but also add it to Dorr's story since people looking for that story might only check the story's record and not see the PDF link in the book's record. But you don't agree, so forget it. --Username 19:09, 3 August 2022 (EDT)

To Love a Vampire

http://www.philsp.com/resources/KRJ/SF_Porn_Author.pdf; I see that this link has a full wraparound cover photo of this title, with art on the back; is there any way to extract it and upload it to the Wiki? Also, the catalog ID for another Hustler PB you entered years ago, Possessed, doesn't match the ISBN you entered, but it does match the ISBN on the cover. --Username 19:51, 3 August 2022 (EDT)

I know that Adobe makes tools for editing pdf files, but I don't have them. As I don't, I am not certain whether the software allows for the extraction of embedded images. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:10, 3 August 2022 (EDT)

Title update submissions

Hi Ron, could you check these two submissions? [10], [11]? Thanks! MagicUnk 08:37, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

They're good and I've approved them. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 08:58, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

Lie's Weird Tales

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?423318; There's several copies on Archive and they don't have The Northern Seas on title page, just Northern Seas. Does your copy have The or was it a mistake? --Username 08:53, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

Corrected. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:02, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

Dungeon of Dread

I just submitted a major edit [12] for Dungeon of Dread where you are the transient PV. I have the book in hand and set myself as a permanent PV.

Would you clarify an etiquette point for me? I'm assuming that I only need to ask change approvals from a PV if they are a permanent PV under the assumption that a temp PV can't check the changes. Is that reasonable?
Thanks! Phil 08:46, 6 August 2022 (EDT)

Hi Phil
It's probably still a good idea to contact primary verifiers, even when transient. While unable to look something up, may have something to add. I probably could put hands on this book, as it is packed away in a box in my attic with other books I intend to discard. However, there is a scan of the second printing. I do have one issue with your edit. The interior art title was intended for the artwork throughout the entire book. Thus, I don't think we should include a page number for it. That also would eliminate the necessity of noting the unnumbered pages before page 1 in the page count. I will approve you edit, but I'd like to undo those parts of it. I think we could also remove the note about the catalog number and just add it in the field. It's clear in the scan. I'll also add a link to the scan for now. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:08, 6 August 2022 (EDT)
That would be fine. It's a subtlety I wasn't aware of but I'll take that approach going forward. If nothing else, fewer edits! Phil 17:31, 6 August 2022 (EDT)

6 SF Plays

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?30649; I just added a PDF link, and I think the publisher should be Washington Square Press / Pocket Books, as there are several of those already on ISFDB and it is an imprint. --Username 10:53, 9 August 2022 (EDT)

I'm ambivalent about this. Per this help template using the imprint is perfectly acceptable. I see there is another active verifier, but I don't see that you've asked them, which should be done before making a change. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:57, 9 August 2022 (EDT)
I didn't make the change, I just added the Luminist PDF, not approved as of yet; as so often happens, people just enter the publisher however they feel like it, which is why there's 100+ ISFDB entries under the imprint name but also several under the imprint/publisher name, of which a couple are PV by you, so apparently at some point you weren't sure which was correct. If anyone cares to consolidate it would probably be easier to make the imprint/publisher into just imprint. --Username 18:30, 9 August 2022 (EDT)


I added Archive links to all 5 volumes (although I had to create a Canadian edition for one of them), but #1, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?18235, says 249 pages when the last story is on 253. Mistake? --Username 11:25, 10 August 2022 (EDT)

Fixed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:52, 10 August 2022 (EDT)

Haunted Omnibus

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1068006; I just added the cover artist, the same as the original edition, and a cover image from FantLab to the Garden City edition you PV; I also added a Luminist PDF to the Farrar and an Archive link from Public Library of India to the Cassell. A few questions I have are whether the Cassell and Oxford have the same cover art/artist, and also that the Farrar ends on p. 846, followed by acknowledgments of which the first page is unnumbered but the second page has 848 on it, while the Cassell has both pages unnumbered. Does that require fixing of the page count for Cassell or a note or something? EDIT: I just added a quick new record for the 1941 Blue Ribbon edition, on FantLab, which has the same cover. --Username 11:38, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

I've rejected your edit. That's not the cover of the 1939 edition. I don't have the jacket, but there are 42 stories as opposed to the 27 mentioned on the image you were attempting to add. If the last numbered page of the other two editions you are asking about is 848, then that is what should be in the publication records. The unnumbered page does not need to be noted. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:48, 11 August 2022 (EDT)
Right, the Blue Ribbon has a much lower page count, so 27 is for that edition; I've made another edit adding cover artist, which when approved can be made a variant of original title and then imported into later Blue Ribbon with same title. Also, Farrar goes 846, blank, 848 while Cassell goes 846, blank, blank, so I was wondering if Cassell's page count should be 846 instead. Still need to know if Oxford and Cassell have same covers; once all are taken care of then all 5 editions can be looked over and done with. EDIT: You know, I'm having a hard time finding anywhere that says the Garden City has the full stories or finding a cover for that edition that says 42 stories. If you don't find any evidence, just cancel my second edit for your PV, because there's no guarantee it even had an illustrated cover; I'll just stick with my Blue Ribbon edition that I entered and if anyone finds out more we can fix it later. --Username 19:17, 11 August 2022 (EDT)
I'll cancel it then. It can always be added later if you find a source.
Per this help page the page count for the Cassell edition should be 846. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:33, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

Charles Dexter Ward

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?157881; You're a PV, note says printed in Canada but no C in price, Luminist has a copy, https://s3.us-west-1.wasabisys.com/luminist/EB/L/Lovecraft%20-%20The%20Case%20of%20Charles%20Dexter%20Ward.pdf, printed in USA, so is yours really Canadian and should C be added to price, and should Luminist be entered as a separate edition? --Username 20:18, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

You should certainly enter it as a separate edition. I'm not certain that my copy was intended to be sold in Canada. The cover states that it was printed in the USA. Also, while the statement on the copyright page about the simultaneous publication gives the Canadian publisher as Ballantine Books of Canada in Toronto. The title page mentions only New York. I'm inclined to leave the price as is. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:07, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

Claremont Tales

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?37893; I added OL ID for second volume's Archive.org copy and Luminist PDF for first volume, but there's a few things: #1 has a limitation page about 3000 copies for the cheaper edition but no PV entered that in the notes, which is unusual, and the interior art has an all-zero date for some reason, and the interior art isn't in the expensive edition, which seems wrong. I guess you'll know the answers. --Username 21:35, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

I've no objection if you want to add the copy count from the colophon, or update the the date on the interior artwork. However, you should check with the other active verifier before doing so. I have no information about the limited edition. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:43, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

Adult Fantasy: Volume II

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?15933; I replaced Amazon cover with Bookscans. --Username 11:37, 13 August 2022 (EDT)

Messenger of Destiny

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?227881: I added FantLab ID and noticed only cover art has a month; an editor named BLongley entered it, it seems. So do you know if it was really published in June, and, if so, all dates can be fixed; if not, 00 for cover art month would probably be best so everything's uniform. --Username 20:03, 14 August 2022 (EDT)

I think you meant the NONFICTION title record. There is no month of publication in the book. Bill's (BLongley) edit was a title merge and there's no way of knowing why one of the merged records had the month and the other didn't. I suspect he elected to keep the more specific date. In any case, I can't find anything to support the month, so I have removed it from the title record. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 22:42, 14 August 2022 (EDT)

Borderlands 3

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?301144; I added ID on spine. --Username 10:42, 16 August 2022 (EDT)

Vampire Stories of R.

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?49280; I replaced cover with SF-Encyclopedia's; it's bigger and brighter. --Username 19:27, 24 August 2022 (EDT)

Thrilling wonder stories July 1940

Hi Ron, I came across the essay titled The Story Behind the Story: romance Across the Ages by Willard E. Hawkins and its parent on p.123, but I have no idea why its parent title is titled The Story Behind the Story (Thrilling Wonder Stories, July 1940) by Willard Hawkins, rather than The Story Behind the Story: romance Across the Ages by Willard Hawkins. Could you have a look and correct if needed? Thanks! MagicUnk 10:19, 31 August 2022 (EDT)

done. Thanks --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:43, 31 August 2022 (EDT)
Great! Thanks MagicUnk 11:55, 31 August 2022 (EDT)

Strange Harvest

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?33503; I added FantLab ID, but the Regular Titles date and cover art date don't have the month; also, "A Trip to Infinity" has same date as book but "Nightmare" doesn't; I usually fix these missing months in my edits, but this one is a little more than usual and the note says month was taken from another source, so I'm letting you know in case you'd like to fix those dates in your PV. --Username 12:23, 5 September 2022 (EDT)

I've updated the dates. I'm a little unsure about whether "A Trip to Infinity" should have the month. Contento1 gives it a date of simply "1965" rather than leaving the date blank as is done with "Nightmare". However, if it were published elsewhere first (Contento doesn't give a source) it couldn't have been earlier than January, so it's probably fine. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:05, 9 September 2022 (EDT)

Deryni Magic title

Please look at the title page of your copy of Deryni Magic: A Grimoire and see if it matches mine which only reads "Deryni Magic". I'd like to change the both the title and canonical title to "Deryni Magic" as well as add a note that the cover shows the title as "Deryni Magic: A Grimoire". I'll also have to change the cover image title to match. I'd also like to add the map titles on pages vi and vii. The other active PVs have this same request. Thanks! Phil 16:58, 5 September 2022 (EDT)

The subtitle is not present on the title page of my copy. I'm OK with all of the changes you propose. Thanks. Ron ~ RtraceTalk 14:06, 7 September 2022 (EDT)

WT 11/1928

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?62085; I checked copy online and it's "Lieutenant" C.T. Lanham; this is the only misspelling of that word on ISFDB, so it's probably a mistake entered here and I assume your copy has the correct spelling. --Username (talk) 12:43, 8 September 2022 (EDT)

Fixed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:13, 9 September 2022 (EDT)


https://archive.org/details/horrorsunpleasan0000jaff; You PV 2 copies, I can't figure out if this Archive copy is cloth or paper, plus there's &, not and, in the title, so if you're interested there's a copy you may want to add to 1 of your PV and fix title if needed. --Username (talk) 19:51, 8 September 2022 (EDT) That scan is definitely of the paperback. I've fixed the title error. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:19, 9 September 2022 (EDT)

Aylett Kitsch

Hi, Ron! This appears to be an essay: it muses on various historical happenings and is described as the first in a series of columns. Would you like to review it (and possibly change the title type)? Christian Stonecreek (talk) 13:50, 9 September 2022 (EDT)

Hi Christian -
I agree and I've changed the title type. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:27, 9 September 2022 (EDT)

The Lodge of the Lynx

For The Lodge of the Lynx, I want to change the cover artist to "Daniel R. Horne". The existing cover art note is almost correct but it's a keyhole double cover and the signed art is on the inner cover not a frontispiece so I'll fix that as well. Thanks! Phil (talk) 14:11, 10 September 2022 (EDT)

First off, I think we're operating on the assumption that Kidd was credited in book two, because he did the inner cover of book one. What I would recommend is that the credit be changed from "Tom Kidd" to "Tom Kidd (in error)" and then be made a variant to a title with Horne as the artist. That way we would preserve the credit as it appears in the book, while reflecting the actual artist. The notes can be adjusted for further explanation. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 14:32, 10 September 2022 (EDT)
I haven't done a variant when the variation is just the cover artist before. Do I just clone the existing pub and replace the cover artist and then do the make variant or is there some other way to do it? Phil (talk) 18:05, 10 September 2022 (EDT)
You wouldn't make a variant of the Novel, but rather a variant of the COVERART title record. First you would change the author name on that record to "Tom Kidd (in error)", Then you would use the "Make This Title a Variant" tool from the same title record, using Option 2 and changing the name to "Daniel Horne" (Daniel R. Horne is variant name, so we'd want to go with the canonical). Then go to the author record for Tom Kidd (in error) and use the "Make/Remove Alternate Name" tool to add Daniel Horne as a second alternate name used by Tom Kidd (in error). Those edits will have show correctly in all the publication records. Let me know if you run into any problems with the edits. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:15, 10 September 2022 (EDT)
Changes submitted. Thanks for walking me through this. Phil (talk) 21:55, 10 September 2022 (EDT)
All approved. Happy to help. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 22:03, 10 September 2022 (EDT)

Virgil Finlay artwork in July 1948 Startling Stories

Hi, Ron. You're PV for July 1948 Startling Stories. In that magazine are 4 Virgil Finlay artworks for the Edmond Hamilton Story, "The Valley of Creation". Can you please let me know if this is one of those Finlay artworks? https://fineart.ha.com/itm/works-on-paper/american-artist-20th-century-spaceship-cra/p/8088-59010.s. Thanks! --Mark

Hi Mark
Alas, it is not one of the illustrations for that story. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:10, 12 September 2022 (EDT)
Thanks for checking. Markwood (talk) 09:52, 13 September 2022 (EDT)

Chicon 8: The 80th World Science Fiction Convention

A couple of quick questions about your verified Chicon 8: The 80th World Science Fiction Convention:

  • Is "Passsed" in "Business Passsed on: World Science Ficiton Society Business Passed on to Chicon 8" spelled that way?
  • Does "Membership List (as of August 3, 2013)" say "2013" as opposed to "2022"?

TIA. Ahasuerus (talk) 08:29, 20 September 2022 (EDT)

The first is my typo, now corrected. The 2013 date appears in the book. I added a note of explanation. I am in the list and while I purchased my membership early, it wasn't that early. There are other errors in the content of the book (in the Hugo list). I have heard that they were planning on correcting the electronic edition, but the currently posted pdf still has the membership list error and others that I am aware of. I'll go ahead and clone for an eBook edition. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:20, 21 September 2022 (EDT)
Thanks for checking! Ahasuerus (talk) 10:51, 21 September 2022 (EDT)


Hi, Ron! I don't know if you have seen my application for self-moderating. Would you mind to leave a comment? Christian Stonecreek (talk) 07:07, 25 September 2022 (EDT)

Change to interior art dates by ElectricStarboard

Hi Ron! I've been working to clean up ElectricStarboard's submissions & a lot of title update have you as PV. ElectricStarboard looks to change the date of interior art to the date of it known creation or to unknown, here are some examples [13], [14], [15], most of these are at the top of the que. Most of what he is doing makes sense to me after looking at & thinking about the majority of the submissions. If you're in agreement, I'll check with one or two other PV's and move forward. Thanks!Kraang (talk) 11:20, 26 September 2022 (EDT)

Sorry, but as I understand the rules, these edits are completely incorrect. I haven't been able to find a discussion where we allow artwork to be entered based on it's creation date, rather than the date it was published. The latest discussion that I could find that touches on this subject is here. I don't believe we reached consensus on the inclusion on original artwork and I see that Ahasuerus's final comment speaks of starting a new discussion to address the specific issue. I argued against adding such records in the database. Even if we do allow them, surely the titles of Bosch's original work wouldn't be English but rather in Dutch, as would the language of the artwork title itself. For example the first edit, what should the Dutch title for "Study for The Garden of Earthly Delights" be? In any case the first time that I'm aware that that artwork was published in English with that title is 2019 and that date should be preserved. I would suggest that if ElectricStarboard wants to reflect the original date of composition for the original artwork that it be reflected in the notes, or that a new discussion be started to determine what exactly the rules are for adding artwork prior to it's publication. Thanks for asking. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:39, 26 September 2022 (EDT)
Ok I see your point, how about I approve ones like this[16] & put back the original date , this way less to erject & links & notes are added.Kraang (talk) 22:21, 26 September 2022 (EDT)
That would be fine. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 08:39, 27 September 2022 (EDT)


https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1002674; Should be Lovecraft's? --Username (talk) 12:45, 26 September 2022 (EDT)

Fixed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:44, 26 September 2022 (EDT)

Small Gods

Hi Ron,

I was trying to get some cleanup done and stumbled on this series in the "Series with Duplicate Numbers". I think that we should either move the interior art to different numbers or a different subseries (keeping the numbers). If you disagree, please open a discussion in R&S about allowing a series to have two entries with the same number so we can get official rules on when it is permitted and have "Ignore" in the cleanup report (that may require some software changed as well I suspect). Thanks! Annie (talk) 17:56, 26 September 2022 (EDT)

Croisière au long du fleuve

I suspect that one of these two essays here and here somehow got the wrong number. Can you check your sources again and see if one of them cannot move away from 13? Thanks! Annie (talk) 18:00, 26 September 2022 (EDT)

My sources when entering both of those were NooSFere which lists them both as #13 in the series, and the publisher's website. The entire series is listed here. Unfortunately, the link to the magazine's website appears to be dead. I was able to find the table of contents for October 2019 issue in archive.org, but they don't appear to have a capture for the July issue. The TOC does not give the number within the series. Given the sources, I don't know if the series number is included on the title page. The website TOC could be giving an abbreviated title. On the other hand, NooSFere could be adding the series number themselves, though I don't know why they would do so and only add it to some of the essays. I would suggest that this is something that should wait for someone who has a copy of the magazine to verify how it is listed. I do note that I missed adding the external ID for the October issue and I'll add that now. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 08:39, 27 September 2022 (EDT)
The notes don't say that NooSfere was the source though. As external IDs can be added and removed at any time (or missed by chance), spelling out the used sources is always a good idea IMO. Makes it easier for people to track where data comes from. :)
So at this point we do not know if we are looking at a Noosfere typo or a magazine one... Thanks for checking - it is still popping up on a report but short of noting that we suspect that the source is wrong, not much we can do about it just now so we shall just need to keep digging. Annie (talk) 14:35, 27 September 2022 (EDT)

John Varley / Titan (map & diagram)

I am drawing your attention to this topic on the Community Portal which affects a pub that you have PVd. Teallach (talk) 18:28, 26 September 2022 (EDT)


https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5437296; Do you disagree with anything here; if so, I will fix. Here's the archive copy: https://archive.org/details/12adventuresofce00robb. --Username (talk) 10:41, 29 September 2022 (EDT)