Difference between revisions of "User talk:Nihonjoe"

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== 鏡の国のアリス ==
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== 1634: The Bavarian Crisis ==
  
When you have a moment, could you please take a look at [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2382737 this Japanese title]? I am not seeing any differences between the parent title and its variant, so I am wondering if I am missing something or if they need to be merged. TIA! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 06:33, 1 May 2022 (EDT)
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The Pages field for your verified publication [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?207873 1634: The Bavarian Crisis] currently shows '[x]+690+[3]'. I initially approved a submission removing the brackets from the Roman numeral (subsequently reversed). Per the help, we enter the Roman numeral for the highest numbered page. Hence, brackets can never be correct. However, I own a copy of the first edition, there are no Roman numerals in my copy. In my opinion, the correct entry for Pages is '690+[3]'. Do you agree? If not, why? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 16:53, 9 September 2023 (EDT)
:Yeah, they were the same thing. I unvarianted them and then merged them. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:54, 2 May 2022 (EDT)
 
  
:: Thanks! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:38, 2 May 2022 (EDT)
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Same for [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?260548 The Dreeson Incident] and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?327545 1635: The Eastern Front].
  
== Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone ==
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After looking at all the first printings up through [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?724653 1636: The China Venture], I think the proper way to account for the maps is an unnumbered Arabic sequence. I'll be glad to verify them after we reach agreement. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 17:16, 9 September 2023 (EDT)
  
I accepted [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5309300 this submission] and [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5309302 this submission] (which impact your verified pubs) per [[ISFDB:Help_desk#Question_on_Printer.27s_key|this discussion]]. The second submission is showing a "Mismatched double quotes" warning, but as far as I can tell that was in the original also. Thanks. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:23, 8 May 2022 (EDT)
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:For [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?260548 The Dreeson Incident] and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?327545 1635: The Eastern Front], I removed the brackets as the notes don't indicate anything about the pages being unnumbered but referenced in the table of contents. I think [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?207873 1634: The Bavarian Crisis] should be left as is since it does have a note indicating the pages are unnumbered but referenced in the table of contents. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:37, 12 September 2023 (EDT)
:Fixed. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:01, 9 May 2022 (EDT)
 
  
== Shaun Jeffrey ==
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::I don't follow your line of reasoning.
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::* Publication pages field: Where does the help section support the use of Roman numerals for a publication which has no pages with Roman numerals?
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::* Content titles page field: If there are no Roman numerals in the pages field, how can the content titles have a Roman numeral? You mention pub notes referring to the publication's contents page. Wouldn't that contradict this statement from the help? "Caution: Do not use the table of contents to determine the page numbers of a publication's contents."
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:: Here is [https://isfdb.org/wiki/images/thumb/7/76/163x_analysis.jpg/800px-163x_analysis.jpg my analysis] of the above two fields for numbers 2-28 (hc except for the 3 only printed in tp) in the 163x series. Note, correct in this analysis is determined by using Bullet point 3 [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Screen:NewPub#Pages here.]
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::* "Sometimes a publication will have unnumbered pages before page 1. If there is any material in these pages which needs to be entered as part of the contents of the book, you may record this by entering the count in squared brackets. For example, [6]+320 would be a publication with six unnumbered pages and then 320 numbered pages. There is no need to record these unnumbered pages if they contain no content that needs to be recorded. At times you will need to count backwards from the first numbered page to see which is page 1 and then would count the unnumbered pages that are before this. Likewise, you may record the count of unnumbered pages at the end of a publication. For example, 320+[4]. As before, only do this if there is additional content in these pages that requires the creation of a content record, as when there is an afterword or book excerpt which appears on unnumbered pages."
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:: A couple of your verified publications do use the method I consider correct. Since you, [[User:Philfreund]] and I are the only active verifiers, I'll invite him to participate here. Thanks for your time, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 16:39, 13 September 2023 (EDT)
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:::I also don't understand your use of Roman numerals where the only place they exist is in the ToC. I agree with John's points above. His second point about the content titles explicitly forbidding the use of the ToC for page numbering surely points for the need to have consistency in the pages field contents, even if not currently explicitly stated. There also definitely needs to be a note in each publication record where this situation exists since it's such an anomaly. The Help for the pages field should be updated to cover this situation. Looking at John's analysis, I need to go back and fix some of the publications where I am sole active PV; I'm not sure how I missed them the first time through. Thanks. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 08:02, 14 September 2023 (EDT)
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::::If page numbers are given in the TOC, even if the pages themselves aren't numbered, I consider them numbered. There are some books that just don't number things prior to page 1, but I've seen a few (like this one) that have the page numbers given in the TOC but not on the actual pages. Why wouldn't we use the page numbers given in the TOC for that? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:55, 15 September 2023 (EDT)
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::::Perhaps a discussion needs to be opened on the [[Rules and standards discussions]] page so this can be sorted out. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:56, 15 September 2023 (EDT)
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::::: I was about to recommend that when I saw your second post. For now, do you agree with Phil and I correcting the publications which do not comply with present standards? There are 12 more, in the above analysis, that I would like to add my PV. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 13:09, 15 September 2023 (EDT)
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::::::Let's leave ''1634: The Bavarian Crisis'' alone for now, but any of the others I don't have are fine to correct. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:10, 15 September 2023 (EDT)
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(unindent)
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<br>Followed here from [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Moderator_noticeboard#Standards_question_has_reached_an_impasse this post]
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<br>I have sympathies with both sides in this discussion.
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<br>A) The Nihonjoe camp (use the Roman numeral from the ToC):
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<br>The Help statement: "Caution: Do not use the table of contents to determine the page numbers of a publication's contents." is presumably intended to apply to the situation where a page number is stated in the ToC and a different page number is stated (or is derivable by counting forwards / backwards) on the page on which the contents begin. However, the scenario that has been raised with 1634: The Bavarian Crisis is different. Here, a page number is stated in the ToC but the page number on the page on which the contents begin IS NULL (and is not derivable by counting forwards / backwards). Consider a hypothetical situation in which the title of a piece of Shortfiction is stated in the ToC but the publisher completely omits the title on the page on which the contents begin. It would be daft to record this piece of Shortfiction as having a null title (even assuming the ISFDb software permitted it). In such a case we would use the title from a secondary source and using the title from the ToC seems sensible. This analogy supports using a Roman numeral page number stated in the ToC for the scenario under discussion.
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<br>B) The Scifibones / Philfreund camp (use Arabic numerals in square brackets):
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<br>However, from the other side of the fence, the ISFDb rules already have a method for assigning page numbers to unnumbered pages that are not derivable by counting forwards / backwards, namely, the use of Arabic numerals in square brackets. So we don't need to resort to a secondary source for the page number and my analogy above regarding the null title breaks down. The way Pages are denoted in the ISFDb is already horrendously complicated and if we adopt option A) we introduce further complications and also open other cans of worms. Example 1): Should the Roman numeral be enclosed in square brackets? This is currently not supported in the ISFDb rules but I can envisage someone making a case for it to be introduced if we adopt option A). Example 2) Suppose a map is on an unnumbered page that is derivable by counting backwards (page 4, say) but the ToC lists it on page iv? What do we do? More complications. More Help notes required.
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<br>My Conclusion:
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<br>Weighing up all the above, I vote for option B) (use Arabic numerals in square brackets).  Whichever way it does go, i) the Help notes need updating to clarify what to do and ii) a pub note definitely needs to be added to explain the discrepancy and the Help notes should state this. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:42, 16 September 2023 (EDT)
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:I think there's some confusion here. As noted at the top of the discussion, "[https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?207873 1634: The Bavarian Crisis] currently shows '[x]+690+[3]'". What Scifibones and Philfreund are suggesting is that we shouldn't be using the roman numerals at all because the pages themselves don't have any roman numerals. I'm suggesting that we should use the roman numerals as given in the TOC because they are given there (despite not being on the actual pages). ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:36, 18 September 2023 (EDT)
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::I do not understand why you think there is some confusion. I agree with your statement above regarding what topic we are discussing. That is what I addressed in my previous post. In my opinion, we should not use Roman numerals when there are no pages with printed Roman numerals. The fact that the ToC may quote Roman numerals is irrelevant. I explained the reasons for my view in my previous post. I have found and looked at the hardcover of 1634: The Bavarian Crisis on [https://archive.org/details/1634bavariancris00flin archive.org]. Pages should be [10]+690+[3] and in the Contents section the Start Page of the maps should be [8]. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:35, 19 September 2023 (EDT)
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:::Well, I disagree with that. If we have something in the publication telling us what page number something is, we should use it, especially in cases where there's no other source. Perhaps this needs to be taken to the [[Rules and standards discussions]]? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:54, 27 September 2023 (EDT)
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:::We could even incorporate the discussion that's [[Rules and standards discussions#Pages - help screens and templates|already there]]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:00, 27 September 2023 (EDT)
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::::I agree it should be moved there but have no idea how that's done so we don't lose what's already been discussed. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 21:59, 27 September 2023 (EDT)
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:::::There is no need to move this to the Rules and standards discussion page. The circumstance where the actual pages are unnumbered but numbering (whether Roman or Arabic) is given in the ToC is <b>clearly covered</b>.
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:::::As John pointed out in his post above (* Content titles page field:), "Caution: Do not use the table of contents to determine the page numbers of a publication's contents.".
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:::::If there is a discrepancy between the actual numbering, or lack of, on the page and that given in the ToC, then that should be recorded in the notes.
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:::::Why or how is this not clear? Kev. --[[User:BanjoKev|BanjoKev]] ([[User talk:BanjoKev|talk]]) 17:46, 28 September 2023 (EDT)
  
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5310781; There's no date because the story was imported into an anthology with the same date as in this edit, an importation that you approved at the same time that you rejected this. Un-reject this. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:29, 12 May 2022 (EDT)
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== [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?293963 Terri Karsten] / [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?341030 Terri Karston] ==
:I didn't say there wasn't a date. I said you didn't provide a reason for the date change. Please always provide a reason for the changes you submit. Thank you. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:39, 12 May 2022 (EDT)
 
:Also, the importation submissions appeared after this submission, so I had no way to know you had submitted the importations. I work through them in the order they were submitted. This is another reason to include a reason. Something as simple as "It was originally printed in an anthology with an earlier date" would work. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:41, 12 May 2022 (EDT)
 
  
== Cemetery Dance Artist ==
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Hi, Joe! It may be that the two authors are one and the same person. Since you are the sole verifier for a publication featuring the latter: could you take a look if there's a hint for the relation? Thanks, Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] ([[User talk:Stonecreek|talk]]) 04:50, 13 September 2023 (EDT)
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:Fixed. Just a typo. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:53, 26 September 2023 (EDT)
  
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5311260; That's not part of his name, that's a photo studio or something similar, like all the cover artists on ISFDB with / Fotolia after their name. Whoever entered this entered it as if Stone was Wildsmith's last name; he has a separate record with 7 Harry Potter covers. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:49, 12 May 2022 (EDT)
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== Donald Trump Anthology ==
:That makes sense. I haven't run into too many of those myself. I've updated the entry. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 21:00, 12 May 2022 (EDT)
 
  
== Legacy of the Darksword cover image ==
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?715417; You entered the title incorrectly; there's no comma after Walls. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 23:59, 19 September 2023 (EDT)
 
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:Fixed. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:06, 25 September 2023 (EDT)
I've uploaded a new scan for the fourth printing of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?80000] that could match your ISBN based Amazon image for your PVed 1st printing. [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/5/5b/LGCFTHDRKB0000.jpg cover]. --[[User:GlennMcG|Glenn]] 18:38, 15 May 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== Cheshire Crossing ==
 
 
 
Can you take another look at the various publications of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3036160 this title]? I suspect the first four (#1 to 4) are a serialization of the story, and should be type SERIAL, not SHORTFICTION. Also, I believe e-books don't get pagenumbers, and the 2019 title is varianted to the 2008 title, but title and author are exactly the same. Shouldn't these be merged instead? I found these on the "Variant Title Length Mismatches" cleanup report. Thanks for checking, --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 17:07, 20 May 2022 (EDT)
 
:They were released individually and not on a specific schedule as individual web comics. They were never collected as one story until the Weir had Anderson redo all the artwork. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:02, 19 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== Myth & Magic ==
 
 
 
Perhaps you missed my response [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Willem_H.#Myth_.26_Magic here]? I uploaded scans of price and copyright page a week ago, and would like to delete these again. Thanks, --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 17:13, 20 May 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== Hiyoko Kurisu ==
 
 
 
[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?61427 Cross Infinite World] has published [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?899835 ''Rapunzel of the Magic Item Shop''] by Hiyoko Kurisu. As far as I can tell, this novel has not appeared in Japanese, at least not as a book. It may have been serialized online, but Google has been no help. Would you happen to have any ideas? TIA! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 08:42, 25 May 2022 (EDT)
 
:[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3038700 Done]! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:02, 25 May 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
:: Thanks! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:25, 25 May 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== Reject ==
 
 
 
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5331548; The reason for the change is that's the title in both books it appears in, both of which I did edits for very recently, as seen by clicking the edit history for both books. http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5332365; The reason for the date change is that's the date it was first published, as seen by clicking the OCLC link in the edition on ISFDB and seeing the many 1979 editions when you click "View all editions and formats". --[[User:Username|Username]] 18:55, 8 June 2022 (EDT)
 
:Thanks! Next time, please include all that information in the submission note. When you submit something and give no reason for it, We don't have any way to read your mind to see where the information is from. Given the volume of your submissions, we don't have time to spend trying to figure out why you might have submitted a change. Please use the submission note field to save everyone a lot of hassle. Thanks! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:04, 8 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
:: Thanks! Next time, maybe mods who accept my multiple edits for a book shouldn't leave 1 edit unaccepted because then the next random mod who comes along doesn't know about the previous edits for that book and thinks this is just a random edit with no connection to anything else. Also, next time the regular title date is changed to an earlier date than the edition(s) on ISFDB that means whoever entered those editions didn't bother to enter that date or didn't know there was an earlier edition; in those cases, WorldCat's your friend (and I assume you're going to un-reject that edit, too, eventually, right?). Thanks! --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:33, 8 June 2022 (EDT)
 
:::It's '''your''' responsibility to make sure '''each ''individual''''' submission has everything needed for a mod to make a decision about the submission. Assuming that the same mod will be working on all related submissions is completely unrealistic. Once a mod gets into reviewing submissions, they may not necessarily look at the full list of submissions as they can simply click on the "Next Submission" button that appears once a submission is handled. If more than one of us are working through the submissions at the same time, it's possible every other submission is being handled by a different mod. So please make sure ''every individual submission'' you make includes whatever links or comments are needed for a decisions to be made. We shouldn't have to redo all of the research you already did just so we can review your submission.
 
:::As for this particular submission, I unrejected it when I made my first reply. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:44, 8 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== Reject II: The Quickening ==
 
 
 
1) http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?50036; Notice where it says "month of publication" and "first edition". 2) Unmerging of Henderson's Place/The Girl with the Summer Eyes is because I made an edit for Night Terrors issue recently and changed a few things including changing this title to the shorter one as it appears in that zine, but longer title was used for Castle's collections so I was told by RTrace to unmerge or variant or break the child or whatever you're supposed to do in such cases. 3) I see you uploaded image of Kurt W. Aigner so that's done; I wouldn't waste my time "fixing" book covers used for author images because there were thousands and thousands of them I've come across, I've added many of my own, and nobody really cares like some of you think they do whether you use a cover; in many cases that's the only place where an obscure author is pictured, no photos being available online. Most publishers are probably glad that their books are linked on a site with hundreds of thousands of users like this one, money being all that matters to most of them. 4) I just cancelled something a few minutes ago but I've already forgotten what it was; something about a price change, I think? You wrote something about 2 and 7 and someone not being around for a year and opening a discussion on the moderator board and I lost interest and just killed it. --[[User:Username|Username]] 17:46, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
 
:Please provide the links to the submissions for 2-4. It's very difficult to find them otherwise. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:37, 16 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
:: I don't know if this is a rib or something, but I'm getting pretty tired of it. First of all, after seeing the note a previous editor wrote saying the March 1983 edition is the first edition I changed the preface's date to match, and after I just showed you that in the link I provided you didn't un-reject my wrongly rejected edit but just entered the date in your own edit as if you had discovered it needed changing. Second, the link to the issue of Night Terrors was added, by me, to the issue's record; why would I need to provide a link when it's already there? Third, there's no link to provide for the Aigner issue; I was just making a point that it's a waste of time for anybody to comb through the, probably, tens of thousands of author records that have a photo contained in a book cover, especially since many of them weren't just linked from Amazon or similar sites but actually uploaded to the Wiki. It would be a massive undertaking for a minor problem; if any specific publisher or person or whatever complained about a specific cover being used then that cover could be replaced, or left blank, but there's no need to replace most of them because no one's ever complained about them and almost certainly never will. Fourth, maybe you didn't understand the part where I said that I got tired of reading your explanation about what was wrong with it and just rejected it. You left a message on my board about it, RUBICON BEACH. Don't you remember that? If you want to contact some PV who may never respond and fix whatever needs fixing, be my guest. --[[User:Username|Username]] 15:27, 16 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
:::I don't have a way to look up your rejected edits (as far as I know). So, I entered the correction myself since I knew which one you meant. I don't have the submission links to the others (or the first one), so I don't have any way to unreject them and approve them. If you'd spend all the time you take to complain and talk about how wonderful you are, and instead applied it to working ''with'' people instead of against them, we'd be able to accomplish things much more quickly. Instead, we sit here talking past each other because you're too arrogant to do anything else than assume everyone is out to get you and trying to steal your thunder or something. You're obviously not in 3rd grade, so how about trying to act like an adult instead of playing one-up with everyone? I'm just going to ignore all of your submissions in the future since you can't seem to play nicely with anyone. I have better things to do with my time than try to read your mind and deal with your crap. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:56, 16 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
:::: You're going to ignore all of my submissions because I don't do exactly what you want me to do, and I'M the child? I assume you've been here for many more years than me, and yet you don't seem to know how to find rejected edits or a lot of other things that I assumed you would know, being a PV and all. As for working with other people, I wish I had the time to comb through my first few months here when I was trying to figure out what I was doing and received many extremely rude and unhelpful responses to my questions from other editors and moderators. My defensive attitude grew out of that, so if that bothers you, too bad. As for being great, I think judging from the amount of edits I've made (close to 30,000 in just a year and a half) or the thousands I've coaxed other people into making, I think my self-respect is pretty justified, especially since many of the moderators who've been here for years, many of whom have pompous bios on their home pages listing all their experience and accomplishments, constantly make mistakes that I, a complete amateur, have to fix, which makes me wonder how they were accepted as moderators in the first place since they can't even be bothered to check over their work before they submit it; some of the errors I've corrected go back 15 years to the earliest days of editing here being made open to the public. Many of the other current editors whose work I come across seem barely literate, so you should be happy to have someone who's accurate and actually checks their work, even if I don't follow the ISFDB "rules", which most of the mods can't even agree on much of the time. As I've explained before more than once, I lost interest in doing this a long time ago and am just continuing to do it to keep myself busy and away from other negative things I could be doing; most of the print publications have been abandoned, judging by the thousands of edits I've made for them, and many if not most of the people currently here just enter modern e-books which people looking for them can easily find themselves; whether that's because linking to Amazon ASIN's brings in money to the site or whether there's another reason is not for me to say. I've had a couple of false starts where I thought I'd be leaving the site which were stymied by unforeseen circumstances, so the thousands of edits I've made since then are a bonus because I really should have been gone from here months ago. You really don't handle most of my edits, anyway, so if you choose not to look at them anymore it would hardly make a difference; there was another mod, Dirk or something like that, who threw a fit last year because I had the nerve to disagree with him about replacing old covers with better ones and other things he apparently felt I shouldn't be correcting him about, and decided not to look at my edits anymore. Since then, I've had thousands and thousands of edits approved by other mods, so if you decide to quit, too, it won't make any difference. There's always someone else. Or you could grow up and stop complaining; World War III may be coming soon judging by the way things are going around the world, so these petty issues about relatively meaningless stuff concerning this site don't matter, since soon there may not be an internet to have a site on anymore. --[[User:Username|Username]] 16:48, 16 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
:::::No, I'm choosing not to work on your submissions because you take too much effort. You're extremely high maintenance. They only times I've asked you to do things was when you were doing things outside of the norm, and I was trying to help you understand how to do them the correct way. As for finding rejected edits, I can find my own, but I've never seen a way to find those belonging to other editors (or it's been so long since I've tried to look them up that I've forgotten how to find them). And there's a difference between self-respect and arrogance. You toot your own horn all the time, and you denigrate other editors all the time. You're a bully, and you don't know how to work well with others. Sorry if that seems harsh, but sometimes reality is harsh. I know I have my own quirks, but I do try to get along with others and not put them down. And I'm not quitting or leaving ISFDB. I'm redirecting my energy and time toward things that are far less stressful to deal with. No need to reply. Go play somewhere else, please. Thank you. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:44, 16 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
:::::And now I've found the link that lets me see rejected submissions for everyone. It was in the Moderator submenu, but it doesn't appear on all the database pages, so it wasn't there when I went looking for it. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:48, 16 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== Antares Dawn ==
 
 
 
For [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?2826 Antares Dawn], would you mind if I:
 
# Change the page count to [8]+310
 
# Add a scanned cover
 
# Add the map on page [7] as "Foldspace Chart: Antares Cluster/Napier Sector (map)" by Shelly Shapiro along with a note about the map artist.
 
# Remove the invalid LCCN from External and add appropriate note.
 
Thanks! [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 08:21, 19 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
:Sure. The apparently-correct LCCN is 98811670 per [https://catalog.loc.gov/vwebv/search?searchCode=TALL&searchArg=antares+dawn&searchType=1&limitTo=none&fromYear=&toYear=&limitTo=LOCA%3Dall&limitTo=PLAC%3Dall&limitTo=TYPE%3Dall&limitTo=LANG%3Dall&recCount=25 this search]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:59, 19 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
::Thanks. I replaced the bad LCCN with the one you provided when I made the other changes. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 17:58, 19 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== Edna Worthley Underwood canonical name ==
 
 
 
Recall from early this spring [[ISFDB:Moderator noticeboard#Edna Worthley Underwood canonical name]]. Your prompt assent remains the only reply. Perhaps by presenting the "all the evidence" with links I frightened all others from reading the note.
 
Or others may have supposed that you actually made the change. Is it one that you can make now? If I understand correctly, it's an update, for moderators only, which edits the Author record; no change in numerical author ID. Right? --[[User:Pwendt|Pwendt]]|[[User talk:Pwendt|talk]] 10:49, 26 June 2022 (EDT)
 
:I can't remember: Is that how she is credited for every entry we have? If not, we'll need to make some pseudonyms. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:05, 27 June 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== So You Want to Live the Slow Life? A Guide to Life in the Beastly Wilds 1 ==
 
 
 
Cross Infinite World strikes again -- [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?904438 So You Want to Live the Slow Life? A Guide to Life in the Beastly Wilds 1] appears to be an English translation of an unpublished Japanese novel (there are indications that the manga version may have been published in Japan.) Would you happen to know more about this series? TIA! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:29, 2 July 2022 (EDT)
 
:I will look into it. Sorry for the slow reply. I was on vacation last week. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:30, 11 July 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
:: Thanks! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:17, 11 July 2022 (EDT)
 
:::Okay, I think I've done as much as I can. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 18:18, 11 July 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
:::: Excellent! [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:21, 11 July 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== Unfettered II ==
 
 
 
Can you please double check the title of story starting on page 341 in {{P|612830|Unfettered II}}? It is currently listed as "A Duel of Evils" (which matches the ToC), but in my version the full title is given as "A Duel of Evils; or, The Fall of Kethia"? If yours matches, I will update our copy and then ask verifiers of other editions. Thanks. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 13:27, 13 July 2022 (EDT)
 
:I'll have to check when I get home tonight. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:34, 13 July 2022 (EDT)
 
::Sorry, took me a little longer to check and reply. It is "A Duel of Evils; or, The Fall of Kethia" on the actual page of the story. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:44, 15 July 2022 (EDT)
 
:::Made updated for our version and pinged verifiers for others. Thanks. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:21, 16 July 2022 (EDT)
 
::::Sounds good. Thanks! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:46, 18 July 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== やけっぱち大作戦 ==
 
 
 
I've never did anything in Japanese before, so could you check out my [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?907271 listing of this book]?  If I did it right, I'll add the rest of the translations of Faust's work. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 05:13, 21 July 2022 (EDT)
 
:It was partially right. The transliteration is "Yakeppachi Daisakusen" rather than "Yakechi Daigeki" (that would be やけち大劇). I've fixed it. Feel free to have me check any of the others you do. People do that all the time here. (^_^) ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 01:59, 22 July 2022 (EDT)
 
::Thanks. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 05:22, 22 July 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== これが最後の大博打 ==
 
 
 
I have two more for you to check over.  The first is [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3059858 これが最後の大博打] and the second is [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3059853 狙われた使節団].  Could you check these out also? Sorry to keep bothering you. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 06:36, 22 July 2022 (EDT)
 
:Those have all been updated now. And no worries. I like fixing things like this. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:11, 22 July 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== コーポレイト・ウォーズ ==
 
 
 
● Time to bother you about two more books.  The first is [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?907586  コーポレイト・ウォーズ (Part 1 of 2)] and the second is [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3060015 コーポレイト・ウォーズ (Part 2 of 2)].  Could you check these out also? Sorry to keep bothering you, but these are the last ones.  I think. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 22:37, 22 July 2022 (EDT)
 
:Okay, these have been corrected. You had the parts mixed up, and I changed them to the Japanese way of titling parts since that's how we do it here. And again, don't worry about "bothering" me. I like fixing these kinds of things. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 10:49, 26 July 2022 (EDT)
 
:Also, I fixed the varianting. Instead of creating a series like you did, the two Japanese volumes should have been varianted to the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?18498 original title]. I've fixed this for you, so you can see how they are attached. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 10:57, 26 July 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== Dead-End Memories ==
 
 
 
Hello,
 
 
 
When you have a chance, can you look at [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?908091 this one] and see if you can figure out the Japanese title of the story and sort out the transliteration of the collection title (and add other stories that my be relevant to us eventually if any). Thanks! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:53, 26 July 2022 (EDT)
 
:{{done}} Done! I added all of the stories from the collection in Japanese. If any turn out to not be genre, we can always delete them. Do we know if anyone here is picking up the English book? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:09, 27 July 2022 (EDT)
 
:: Thanks! Based on the English descriptions, I don't think that all of them are genre... But as you said, we can always delete anyway. Not sure if I am getting to that one - too many books, not enough time :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:18, 27 July 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== Skeleton Crew ==
 
 
 
You have verified the pubs containing {{T|2302205|Skeleton Crew}} (2017) and {{T|2959708|Skeleton Crew}} (2018). Normally we'd just merge duplicate titles, but since these appeared in two different Expanding Universe anthologies, was this a duplicate (so it should be merged) or was the title reused for a new story (in which case we need title notes)? Thanks. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 09:29, 6 August 2022 (EDT)
 
:I will check when I get home. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:47, 8 August 2022 (EDT)
 
::They are indeed the same story. I have merged the titles. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:28, 10 August 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== Possible Database Typos ==
 
 
 
Can you double check the following possible database typos?
 
* acknowlegements - {{T|2837076|Postscript and Acknowlegements}} in {{P|804295|The Founder Effect}}
 
* irrestible - {{T|2958569|The Irrestible Force}} in {{P|798765|The Expanding Universe Volume 6}}
 
Thanks. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 09:10, 9 August 2022 (EDT)
 
:They are indeed typos, and both have been fixed. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:29, 10 August 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== The Jungle Book ==
 
 
 
I approved [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5393839 this submission] adding the pub series to one of your verified pubs. Looks like [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User:ElectricStarboard ElectricStarboard] has similar submissions affecting more of your verified pubs. Do you want to handle them yourself, be consulted in advance by the submitter, or let them be reviewed as they come up? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 08:36, 21 August 2022 (EDT)
 
:As they come up is fine. If it's just adding them to that particular pub series, I don't need to be asked. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 18:23, 24 August 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== 尘土之山 ==
 
 
 
Can you have a look at [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/mod/submission_review.cgi?5394749 this submission], and approve if this can be accepted? Thanks! [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 11:44, 31 August 2022 (EDT)
 
:I don't know Chinese. It looks like they are changing the title, but didn't explain why. I'd put it on hold and ask them the reason for the change. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:49, 31 August 2022 (EDT)
 
:: OK - will do. Sorry about that. [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 15:21, 31 August 2022 (EDT)
 
:::No worries. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:30, 31 August 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== The Mammoth Book of Awesome Comic Fantasy ==
 
 
 
Please see [[User_talk:GlennMcG#The_Mammoth_Book_of_Awesome_Comic_Fantasy|this conversation]]. Thanks. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 11:25, 4 September 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== Back Cover Images ==
 
 
 
Reference [[User_talk:ElectricStarboard#Back_Cover_Images|this discussion]]: Back cover images do not go into the cover field. They are entered as interior art with "bc" as the page number. See "Artwork" under [[:Template:TitleFields:Title]]. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 13:46, 17 September 2022 (EDT)
 
:Okay. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 19:39, 17 September 2022 (EDT)
 
 
 
== 翡翠城市 ==
 
 
 
Hello, when you have a chance, can you add a transliteration to the elements of [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?917142 this one] and its author and fix whatever else I got wrong (I am not sure if this is the correct form of the author name - there seems to be a dot on the title page between the two names which I am not sure if we should record or if it is typeface thing). Thanks! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2022 (EDT)
 
:Done! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:43, 30 September 2022 (EDT)
 
:: So we record the dot. Noting that for next time :) Thanks! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 15:45, 30 September 2022 (EDT)
 
:::Yes. Amazon often leaves it out (or replaces it with a Latin space), so copying from there doesn't always help. It's used pretty much all the time for foreign names so Japanese people will know where the parts of the names are. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:49, 30 September 2022 (EDT)
 
:::: As I said, I did wonder if it is part of the name or if it is a typographical convention/oddity or something else. I know that Amazon is normalizing names - it does it on all its versions so I look at the title pages when I can. :) Except with languages I cannot read, it takes awhile to figure out what is part of the name and what is on (for example in most Central European languages names are in different cases on pages (especially artists, narrators and translators but also authors when we get them from text and not from the page itself) and you actually need to get it back to the Nominative for recording because the form printed means "by name" and not just "name". That I know how to do and how to untangle). So I ask when I see something I am not so sure about:) Thanks again! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 16:03, 30 September 2022 (EDT)
 
:::::Questions are always good. I know I've had plenty over the years. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:05, 30 September 2022 (EDT)
 

Latest revision as of 17:46, 28 September 2023

Notice: If you're here to tell me of a minor change (image added, additional information added, etc.) to one of my verified publications, you do not need to make a note of it here. Thanks!


Nihonjoe's Talk Archives


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1634: The Bavarian Crisis

The Pages field for your verified publication 1634: The Bavarian Crisis currently shows '[x]+690+[3]'. I initially approved a submission removing the brackets from the Roman numeral (subsequently reversed). Per the help, we enter the Roman numeral for the highest numbered page. Hence, brackets can never be correct. However, I own a copy of the first edition, there are no Roman numerals in my copy. In my opinion, the correct entry for Pages is '690+[3]'. Do you agree? If not, why? John Scifibones 16:53, 9 September 2023 (EDT)

Same for The Dreeson Incident and 1635: The Eastern Front.

After looking at all the first printings up through 1636: The China Venture, I think the proper way to account for the maps is an unnumbered Arabic sequence. I'll be glad to verify them after we reach agreement. John Scifibones 17:16, 9 September 2023 (EDT)

For The Dreeson Incident and 1635: The Eastern Front, I removed the brackets as the notes don't indicate anything about the pages being unnumbered but referenced in the table of contents. I think 1634: The Bavarian Crisis should be left as is since it does have a note indicating the pages are unnumbered but referenced in the table of contents. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:37, 12 September 2023 (EDT)
I don't follow your line of reasoning.
  • Publication pages field: Where does the help section support the use of Roman numerals for a publication which has no pages with Roman numerals?
  • Content titles page field: If there are no Roman numerals in the pages field, how can the content titles have a Roman numeral? You mention pub notes referring to the publication's contents page. Wouldn't that contradict this statement from the help? "Caution: Do not use the table of contents to determine the page numbers of a publication's contents."
Here is my analysis of the above two fields for numbers 2-28 (hc except for the 3 only printed in tp) in the 163x series. Note, correct in this analysis is determined by using Bullet point 3 here.
  • "Sometimes a publication will have unnumbered pages before page 1. If there is any material in these pages which needs to be entered as part of the contents of the book, you may record this by entering the count in squared brackets. For example, [6]+320 would be a publication with six unnumbered pages and then 320 numbered pages. There is no need to record these unnumbered pages if they contain no content that needs to be recorded. At times you will need to count backwards from the first numbered page to see which is page 1 and then would count the unnumbered pages that are before this. Likewise, you may record the count of unnumbered pages at the end of a publication. For example, 320+[4]. As before, only do this if there is additional content in these pages that requires the creation of a content record, as when there is an afterword or book excerpt which appears on unnumbered pages."
A couple of your verified publications do use the method I consider correct. Since you, User:Philfreund and I are the only active verifiers, I'll invite him to participate here. Thanks for your time, John Scifibones 16:39, 13 September 2023 (EDT)
I also don't understand your use of Roman numerals where the only place they exist is in the ToC. I agree with John's points above. His second point about the content titles explicitly forbidding the use of the ToC for page numbering surely points for the need to have consistency in the pages field contents, even if not currently explicitly stated. There also definitely needs to be a note in each publication record where this situation exists since it's such an anomaly. The Help for the pages field should be updated to cover this situation. Looking at John's analysis, I need to go back and fix some of the publications where I am sole active PV; I'm not sure how I missed them the first time through. Thanks. Phil (talk) 08:02, 14 September 2023 (EDT)
If page numbers are given in the TOC, even if the pages themselves aren't numbered, I consider them numbered. There are some books that just don't number things prior to page 1, but I've seen a few (like this one) that have the page numbers given in the TOC but not on the actual pages. Why wouldn't we use the page numbers given in the TOC for that? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:55, 15 September 2023 (EDT)
Perhaps a discussion needs to be opened on the Rules and standards discussions page so this can be sorted out. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:56, 15 September 2023 (EDT)
I was about to recommend that when I saw your second post. For now, do you agree with Phil and I correcting the publications which do not comply with present standards? There are 12 more, in the above analysis, that I would like to add my PV. John Scifibones 13:09, 15 September 2023 (EDT)
Let's leave 1634: The Bavarian Crisis alone for now, but any of the others I don't have are fine to correct. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:10, 15 September 2023 (EDT)

(unindent)
Followed here from this post
I have sympathies with both sides in this discussion.
A) The Nihonjoe camp (use the Roman numeral from the ToC):
The Help statement: "Caution: Do not use the table of contents to determine the page numbers of a publication's contents." is presumably intended to apply to the situation where a page number is stated in the ToC and a different page number is stated (or is derivable by counting forwards / backwards) on the page on which the contents begin. However, the scenario that has been raised with 1634: The Bavarian Crisis is different. Here, a page number is stated in the ToC but the page number on the page on which the contents begin IS NULL (and is not derivable by counting forwards / backwards). Consider a hypothetical situation in which the title of a piece of Shortfiction is stated in the ToC but the publisher completely omits the title on the page on which the contents begin. It would be daft to record this piece of Shortfiction as having a null title (even assuming the ISFDb software permitted it). In such a case we would use the title from a secondary source and using the title from the ToC seems sensible. This analogy supports using a Roman numeral page number stated in the ToC for the scenario under discussion.
B) The Scifibones / Philfreund camp (use Arabic numerals in square brackets):
However, from the other side of the fence, the ISFDb rules already have a method for assigning page numbers to unnumbered pages that are not derivable by counting forwards / backwards, namely, the use of Arabic numerals in square brackets. So we don't need to resort to a secondary source for the page number and my analogy above regarding the null title breaks down. The way Pages are denoted in the ISFDb is already horrendously complicated and if we adopt option A) we introduce further complications and also open other cans of worms. Example 1): Should the Roman numeral be enclosed in square brackets? This is currently not supported in the ISFDb rules but I can envisage someone making a case for it to be introduced if we adopt option A). Example 2) Suppose a map is on an unnumbered page that is derivable by counting backwards (page 4, say) but the ToC lists it on page iv? What do we do? More complications. More Help notes required.
My Conclusion:
Weighing up all the above, I vote for option B) (use Arabic numerals in square brackets). Whichever way it does go, i) the Help notes need updating to clarify what to do and ii) a pub note definitely needs to be added to explain the discrepancy and the Help notes should state this. Teallach (talk) 18:42, 16 September 2023 (EDT)

I think there's some confusion here. As noted at the top of the discussion, "1634: The Bavarian Crisis currently shows '[x]+690+[3]'". What Scifibones and Philfreund are suggesting is that we shouldn't be using the roman numerals at all because the pages themselves don't have any roman numerals. I'm suggesting that we should use the roman numerals as given in the TOC because they are given there (despite not being on the actual pages). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:36, 18 September 2023 (EDT)
I do not understand why you think there is some confusion. I agree with your statement above regarding what topic we are discussing. That is what I addressed in my previous post. In my opinion, we should not use Roman numerals when there are no pages with printed Roman numerals. The fact that the ToC may quote Roman numerals is irrelevant. I explained the reasons for my view in my previous post. I have found and looked at the hardcover of 1634: The Bavarian Crisis on archive.org. Pages should be [10]+690+[3] and in the Contents section the Start Page of the maps should be [8]. Teallach (talk) 18:35, 19 September 2023 (EDT)
Well, I disagree with that. If we have something in the publication telling us what page number something is, we should use it, especially in cases where there's no other source. Perhaps this needs to be taken to the Rules and standards discussions? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:54, 27 September 2023 (EDT)
We could even incorporate the discussion that's already there. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:00, 27 September 2023 (EDT)
I agree it should be moved there but have no idea how that's done so we don't lose what's already been discussed. Phil (talk) 21:59, 27 September 2023 (EDT)
There is no need to move this to the Rules and standards discussion page. The circumstance where the actual pages are unnumbered but numbering (whether Roman or Arabic) is given in the ToC is clearly covered.
As John pointed out in his post above (* Content titles page field:), "Caution: Do not use the table of contents to determine the page numbers of a publication's contents.".
If there is a discrepancy between the actual numbering, or lack of, on the page and that given in the ToC, then that should be recorded in the notes.
Why or how is this not clear? Kev. --BanjoKev (talk) 17:46, 28 September 2023 (EDT)

Terri Karsten / Terri Karston

Hi, Joe! It may be that the two authors are one and the same person. Since you are the sole verifier for a publication featuring the latter: could you take a look if there's a hint for the relation? Thanks, Christian Stonecreek (talk) 04:50, 13 September 2023 (EDT)

Fixed. Just a typo. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:53, 26 September 2023 (EDT)

Donald Trump Anthology

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?715417; You entered the title incorrectly; there's no comma after Walls. --Username (talk) 23:59, 19 September 2023 (EDT)

Fixed. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:06, 25 September 2023 (EDT)