Difference between revisions of "User talk:Mavmaramis"

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:::::: I had come to an average of about 254 words per page, with an absolute high of 266 words on one page in my sample, and with an overall majority seeming to lie just beneath or around 250 words a page: the reason for this seems to lie in not discounting the empty space and the shorter lines (for example of dialogue and paragraph endings). I think the right way to do it is to actually count the words on representative sample pages (and discount unused space of chapter endings & beginnings). Thus, the word count estimate does lie beneath the threshold of 40,000 words: at 37,772 for the high point page, at 36,608 for the average, and even below that for the 'impressionist' average. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 00:59, 16 June 2022 (EDT)
:::::: I had come to an average of about 254 words per page, with an absolute high of 266 words on one page in my sample, and with an overall majority seeming to lie just beneath or around 250 words a page: the reason for this seems to lie in not discounting the empty space and the shorter lines (for example of dialogue and paragraph endings). I think the right way to do it is to actually count the words on representative sample pages (and discount unused space of chapter endings & beginnings). Thus, the word count estimate does lie beneath the threshold of 40,000 words: at 37,772 for the high point page, at 36,608 for the average, and even below that for the 'impressionist' average. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 00:59, 16 June 2022 (EDT)
== Spellsinger cover artist credits ==
When using a secondary source, you need to state the source in the publication notes, not just in the moderator notes. This is especially true for verified pubs. I have added the source for the cover to the three Spellsinger pubs. Thanks. -- [[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 10:11, 19 June 2022 (EDT)

Revision as of 10:11, 19 June 2022


I am now only checking this page very infrequently. You do not need to inform me about the addition/import of contents, other prices, publication details from Locus or other minor changes - just go ahead and amend the record as necessary. Anything else please continue to post messages here and I will (eventually) respond.


Archive 1 (2015-2020)

Don Maitz

As I finish my Maitz collection, I've edited First Maitz Susan O'Fearna 01:32, 24 August 2020 (EDT)

The Queen of the Swords

I added cover art credit to The Queen of Swords since that cover is used for five other editions of that title. Susan O'Fearna 15:38, 24 August 2020 (EDT)

The Star Diaries


Would you be able to check the title page of this one - I am trying to find out if the author name is spelled Stanisław or Stanislaw. The cover uses the correct Polish spelling so chasing down the title page to see if we should swap the name. :) Thanks! Annie 21:32, 31 August 2020 (EDT)

Hi Annie. Title page uses Stanislaw without the slant through the L. In fact the cover is the only instance where the slant is used. --Mavmaramis 01:02, 1 September 2020 (EDT)
Awesome. I will add a note about that to the publication so we know what is going on (and I do not bother you again in 6 months when I forget we cleared this one). Feel free to change the wording if you do not like it. Thanks for checking! Annie 01:07, 1 September 2020 (EDT)

Soldier, Ask Not

Tony Roberts is the cover artist of this, he states in the SF artist interview in Science Fiction Monthly, November 1975 that "I've just finished the covers for Gordon Dickson's Dorsai trilogy". While this title is not explicitly mentioned, Sphere published "Soldier, Ask Not" with the text "The second in the Dorsai trilogy" on the cover. Horzel 09:37, 11 September 2020 (EDT)

Elmore: Twenty Years of Art

merging record with ArtFantastix reissue and importing content into Twenty Years of Art Susan O'Fearna 16:27, 11 September 2020 (EDT)

David B. Mattingly

I've added notes and contents to Alternate Views, Alternate Worlds Susan O'Fearna 03:22, 15 September 2020 (EDT)

Best S.F. Stories from New Worlds 8

I believe this note is to say: First published in 1974". Do you agree? --Spacecow 13:26, 21 September 2020 (EDT)

Probably. I don't have my copy immediately to hand to verify. --Mavmaramis 16:37, 21 September 2020 (EDT)

The Iron Man: A Story in Five Nights


I am considering converting this one to a chapbook - there are no 40,000 words in this story (I am not that there are even 17K). Any objections? Any chance to do a rough word count? Thanks! Annie 23:26, 23 September 2020 (EDT)

No objections. Clute & Nicholls states it is a "chap" so that would seem to clinch it. --Mavmaramis 15:59, 24 September 2020 (EDT)
Done. Annie 01:56, 26 September 2020 (EDT)

The Shepherd Is My Lord

Hello, concerning the use of html in the Notes field in this submission. You made a small mistake. The proper use is as follows : <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/schongut/3993385008/">text</a>. Note the <a href="URL">text</a> format. Substitute URL for the website page address to link to, and 'text' for the text to click on. I've accepted your submission and corrected the link accordingly. Regards, MagicUnk 08:02, 7 October 2020 (EDT)

I did try to follow the instructions on the help page. Your yexy above is much more succinct and much easier to understand so thank you. --Mavmaramis 13:45, 7 October 2020 (EDT)
You're welcome :) MagicUnk 15:29, 7 October 2020 (EDT)


I've done a little bit of cleanup of More's Utopia trying to sort out translators. I noticed that your copy of the Penguin edition has the author as "Thomas More" on the cover. I have a later printing with "Thomas More" on the title page as well. I just wanted to check to see if perhaps your copy should be under this title instead of the "Sir Thomas More" title it is currently under. The other title also notes the translator. You also may want to add the Penguin Classics publication series. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:29, 8 October 2020 (EDT)

Alright thanks for the flag. I've removed the verification from this copy and cloned this title and added notes. --Mavmaramis 04:03, 9 October 2020 (EDT)

Wyndham's Sleepers of Mars

I'm going to change the author credit to your verified publication Sleepers of Mars from "John Wyndham" to "John Beynon Harris". this help section, indicates that these "writing as" credits should be entered as the original name. I suspect that this publication was entered before that policy was implemented. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 08:34, 18 October 2020 (EDT)

Ok I checked the following Coronet editions: Wanders of Time - states on title page "John Wyndham writing as John Beynon Harris"
  • Stowaway to Mars - states on title page "John Wyndham writing as John Beynon"
  • Sleepers of Mars - states on title page "John Wyndham writing as John Beynon Harris" - This is NOT noted on Cover and Spine. Note is incorrect.
  • The Secret People - states on title page "John Wyndham writing as John Beynon"
  • Exiles on Asperus - states on title page "John Wyndham writing as John Beynon"
  • Hope that helps. --Mavmaramis 09:06, 18 October 2020 (EDT)
    Thanks for that. It looks like all of these need some more work. I'll go ahead and start cleaning them up. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:45, 18 October 2020 (EDT)
    You're welcome Ron. Happy editing. --Mavmaramis 12:04, 18 October 2020 (EDT)
  • The Trigan Empire


    Can you confirm that this is the collection of the comics? If so, it is technically not eligible so I will be proposing it to be deleted -- but wanted to make sure I am not missing something (and yes, I looked at the note but as you have the book - a check never harms). Thanks! Annie 14:18, 27 October 2020 (EDT)

    Yes. It was obviously a volume that fell through the net. You may also want to review this publication as well since it's a photographic reprimt of comic strips. The only thing to bear in mind (not noted on the entry) is that it has a foreword by Kit Pedler (an above threshold author) and 5 pages of introductory material "© James Slattery 1979" --Mavmaramis 09:36, 28 October 2020 (EDT)

    In His Own Image

    Please see this submission that impacts one of your verified pubs. Would you please double check the date in the publication? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:44, 31 October 2020 (EDT)

    Date checked. 1979 is correct. --Mavmaramis 12:10, 31 October 2020 (EDT)
    Change approved. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 12:23, 31 October 2020 (EDT)

    Fuzzy Sapiens

    Hi, cover artist of this is Wayne Anderson, see bookpalace.com. Horzel 19:57, 31 October 2020 (EDT)

    The Stainless Steel Rat


    Price is $1.95, right? Stated at the back cover of the book. --Spacecow 10:16, 7 November 2020 (EST)

    I checked and my copy isn't that printing anyway so removed the verification. So you're the only verfiier for that edition. --Mavmaramis 10:43, 7 November 2020 (EST)
    OK. I'll add it then. --Spacecow 02:08, 15 December 2020 (EST)

    The Art of NASA: The Illustrations that Sold the Missions

    So... is this book about art illustrating fiction or is the book about NASA and space travel? From what I can see online, it seems like the latter ("History of NASA in pictures") and in this case it won't eligible for addition I am afraid... If these pictures are illustrating fiction or used as fiction covers, that changes things. Let me know :) Annie 12:20, 12 November 2020 (EST)

    It's a book of mostly conceptual illustrations giving a general idea of what things might look like in terns of various NASA missions from the earliest days and potential future missions such as habitat structures on other planets (Moon, Mars), Bernal and O'Neill and other tube-like or ring-like structures. These later images are almost certainly "fictional" in that regards. Whether they illustrate fiction or are used for fictional covers I know not. --Mavmaramis 12:44, 12 November 2020 (EST)
    Then it won't be eligible. Our non-fiction eligibility rules (and this book is non-fiction -- we count all art books as nonfiction) is based on the ability to tie the book to speculative fiction (except for above threshold authors)... As the author is not above threshold and the book cannot be plausibly tied to speculative fiction, it is out I am afraid. :( Annie 13:49, 12 November 2020 (EST)
    Fair enough. --Mavmaramis 15:29, 12 November 2020 (EST)

    The Dark Crystal Bestiary

    I accepted The Dark Crystal Bestiary, but changed the ISBN from 987.. to 978... as 987 is not valid. If this wasn't a data entry typo and the pub uses 987, please add a publication note. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:51, 26 November 2020 (EST)

    It was indeed a typo. I'll be uploading cover art shortly. --Mavmaramis 10:06, 26 November 2020 (EST)

    Merchants of Venus

    I placed your submission on hold. Will you verify the spelling of "Fredrick"? His name is normally spelled Frederik. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:09, 2 December 2020 (EST)

    Ferderik. I made a typo. --Mavmaramis 15:26, 2 December 2020 (EST)
    Just making sure. Is it "Ferderik" or "Frederik"? Your reply might have a typo, too. (^_^) ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:30, 2 December 2020 (EST)
    Yes. Less haste more speed (or something like that). Frederik it is. --Mavmaramis 11:38, 3 December 2020 (EST)
    It's been updated. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:29, 3 December 2020 (EST)

    Frost and Fire

    Hello, I have your submission on hold, as I would like to ask if you could provide me with the author of the novel this is an adaptation of? Thank you! MagicUnk 16:09, 7 December 2020 (EST)

    That information was provided in the author field of the submission. --Mavmaramis 01:40, 8 December 2020 (EST)
    Ah, then I'm afraid this submission is not eligible as we do not record graphic novels of authors that are below the threshold and have not published non-graphical-speculative fiction. I have rejected your submission. Regards, MagicUnk 12:01, 8 December 2020 (EST)
    Same publication as this so why reject ? --Mavmaramis 12:10, 8 December 2020 (EST)
    Ah well, basically I reverted my earlier rejection of your submission, as I realized that this is an adaptation of works by Ray Bradbury, so eligible after all. I've corrected a typo, and added clarifying note to the pub. Is it OK like this now? Regards, MagicUnk 12:14, 8 December 2020 (EST)
    It's fine (typos were probably my error). I should have added a note about it being an adaption of a Ray Bradbury story. The other one that maybe needs looking at is [1] which should really have Harlan Ellsion's name as author added to the record. Sorry if I came across somewhat "brusque" --Mavmaramis 12:19, 8 December 2020 (EST)
    Yep, does need Harlan as co-author. And no worries, I didn't take it badly :) Regards, MagicUnk 13:02, 8 December 2020 (EST)
    I have to pause occassionally and remember that you are human as well (feelings/emotions). --Mavmaramis 13:32, 8 December 2020 (EST)

    Frank Kelly Freas: As He Sees It

    I've added interior art contents to this art book. Horzel 17:07, 10 December 2020 (EST)

    The Jewel in the Skull by James Cawthorn

    I'd enter the interview as an interview, not as an essay. Does it have a title on page [74]?.--Dirk P Broer 11:25, 16 December 2020 (EST)

    Not as such. It's merely "James Cawthorn" with below that "interviewed by David Britton". There was no dropdown option for Interview. --Mavmaramis 12:14, 16 December 2020 (EST)
    Look lower on the "Publication Edit" page - interviews and reviews have their own sections (because they require a second author to be added specifically. Unfortunately that also means that you cannot convert - you need to add the interview and remove the essay :) Annie 12:17, 16 December 2020 (EST)
    Ok thanks. I'll do that. --Mavmaramis 12:29, 16 December 2020 (EST)

    The Sci-Fi & Fantasy Art of Patrick J. Jones

    As far as I can tell, this and this are duplicate pubs where you have included the art, but not the essays and Willem H. has included the essays, but not the art. It seems like these should be combined and one deleted? I will point Willem H. to this conversation. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:49, 20 December 2020 (EST)

    Yes. Possibly Willem H added his edition after I did. I distinctly recall adding the publication and it's contents as it was not on ISFDB until I got hold of a copy. Seems logical to combine the two entires. --Mavmaramis 06:29, 21 December 2020 (EST)
    I verified the existing edition in 2018 (entered by Markwood in 2016). Perhaps you missed it? I now imported the interiorart titles in my edition (thanks for all the work!). I.m.h.o. it would be better to delete your pub, and move your verification (and any note you think is needed). I can't check my copy at the moment (It's in one of 165 boxes, but which???) --Willem 16:07, 23 December 2020 (EST)
    I'll do that. --Mavmaramis 05:35, 24 December 2020 (EST)

    Dangerous Visions 2

    Hi, this scan of this edition shows (enough of) the signature PETAGNO vertically in the lower left, so cover artist is Joe Petagno, as expected. Horzel 18:34, 21 December 2020 (EST)

    I was pretty sure the covers of those three editions were all by Petagno being very similar in style. --Mavmaramis 07:54, 22 December 2020 (EST)

    Harry Harrison 'War With the Robots' priced at 50 cents?

    Hi. You're the only current verifier of http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?53765. The picture for this listing shows 40-cent price. Is there actually a later printing with 50-cent price, or is that an error? If real, is there anything on the copyright page to indicate it's a later printing ... or maybe a Canadian edition? Thanks for clearing this up. Markwood 10:31, 8 January 2021 (EST)

    I checked my copy. It was a verification error. My copy is the 40 cent Sep 1962 first printing thus I've rverified the correct edition. Scott Latham is the only verifier of the 50c version but he's no longer active. --Mavmaramis 10:40, 8 January 2021 (EST)

    Halcyon Drift


    Do you happen to be able to pull this book? It is a 1976 one but the notes read "This edition published 1977 by Pan Books Ltd". Is that our typo or is this what the page says (I have an editor with a book that says 1976 on the page so trying to find out if we have two different editions or just the one and a DB typo. Thanks! Annie 17:41, 16 January 2021 (EST)

    Definately a typo. Copyright page categorically states "This edition published 1976 by Pan Books Ltd." --Mavmaramis 18:57, 16 January 2021 (EST)
    Awesome - I will advise the new editor so he can verify that one instead of cloning :) Thanks! Annie 19:35, 16 January 2021 (EST)
    Funny how now the UK is in lockdown I find sleep a bit tricky - it's half past midnight - gave me something to do. --Mavmaramis 19:39, 16 January 2021 (EST)
    Been there, done that - the first weeks of the lockdown here in the States back in March when I moved from going to an office (or on a plane to get to a customer site) every day to working from home, my sleep patterns were all out of whack... So were the patterns of everyone else I think so our multi-national conversations were in weird times. We are technically not in a lockdown here but things are away from normal so yeah... :) Annie 19:45, 16 January 2021 (EST)

    The Blue World

    Cover artist of this is of course Gino D'Achille, his signature can be seen on the original art as shown on the backcover of Russ Cochran's Comic Art Auction #81 (lower left corner, signature GA). Horzel 17:02, 22 January 2021 (EST)

    Or better, look here. Horzel 18:08, 22 January 2021 (EST)

    The Romulan Way

    I'm holding your submission updating The Romulan Way. I don't think you actually want to update this publication record which is for the first printing. Rather if you clone the record, you'll leave the record for the first printing intact while creating a new record for your second printing. Please let me know if you have questions. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:43, 2 February 2021 (EST)

    The thing is that I'd verified it previously - maybe I hadn't actually checked. Whatever I did check the copy I had to hand which was for a 2nd printing. Either way the copy is no longer available. --Mavmaramis 10:02, 2 February 2021 (EST)
    That's all fine. However, the existing record has a Locus1 and a Worldcat verification by an inactive editor. Both those verifications refer to the first printing. By making the existing record into the second printing, we lose any record of the first printing and those verifications would be incorrect. I recommend that you clone the existing publication and verify (transient is fine) the newly created record. You can also remove your verification from the first printing record. That way well keep records of both printings. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:44, 2 February 2021 (EST)
    On it. --Mavmaramis 23:50, 2 February 2021 (EST)



    Approved this one but French capitalization and punctuation is a bit different than English (spaces on both sides of ":" for example and using sentence case and not title case for titles and subtitles) and we follow language conventions when known (and yes... we do need to finish the page about these). I also added the BNF number while I was there :) Annie 06:29, 3 February 2021 (EST)

    Alrighty, thanks. Well I only bought it for the robot art since I can't read French. --Mavmaramis 10:30, 3 February 2021 (EST)
    Sounds reasonable :) Annie 10:40, 3 February 2021 (EST)
    Haha yes. I belong to a Facebook group where members have been posting their sco-fi art portfolio collections [Shusei Nagaoka - 長岡秀星の世界 Part 2 is not cheap, nor is 迷宮のアンドローラ; and Shigeru Komatsuzaki who did art for model kit boxes mostly Thunderbirds - his "Mechanic Fantasy The World of Shigeru Komatsuzaki" is £100] --Mavmaramis 10:48, 3 February 2021 (EST)
    Artbooks are not my thing but I am into nice editions of SF (written) - some of these books are... expensive and I refuse to answer just how many versions of Dune or Foundation can one person have... ;) I need to add some of them here (and/or verify) but I keep getting distracted). At least I am not buying editions in other languages... too often (I may have a few Alice in Wonderland in exotic languages...). So yeah... as I said - absolutely reasonable. :) Annie 11:13, 3 February 2021 (EST)

    Spectrum III


    Can you pull out Spectrum III and check the title page - I have an editor who challenges the statement "'3' on cover/spine, 'III' on title page" and claims it is "3" on the title page as well. If this is the case, we also will need renames and so on... so any chance you can check what is in your book? Thanks! Annie 13:48, 4 February 2021 (EST)

    The editor in question is mistaken. Yes it is "3" on the cover and spine but definately "III" on title page. The same is tru (as stated in the notes) for this edition as well. --Mavmaramis 14:13, 4 February 2021 (EST)
    My guess is that he is mistaking "title page" and "cover" - that is why I came asking. Thanks for checking! Annie 14:24, 4 February 2021 (EST)

    The covers problem

    The two covers are untangled - you may need to add new images somewhere (I am not sure I left the correct ones in place - sorry, it is a bit late here...) but now when you press upload on either, it will only upload into that one and not for both. It was a tag mixup - a reused cover instead of uploading a new one into one of the book. :) Annie 04:13, 6 February 2021 (EST)

    Thanks Annie. I'll upload the photo of the unbosed slipcase edition to that record and scan the dustwrappr of my other very distressed copy. --Mavmaramis 04:23, 6 February 2021 (EST)
    One question while I am here: You have the OCLC here but the record looks like the one for the first printing from 1989 and not this second printing? It is a joined record for both the trade and limited but I think it should be taken off the second printing... Annie 04:48, 6 February 2021 (EST)
    That OCLC record doesn't distinguish between the two states (trade / limited). The only entry for a 1st edition UM is this. All merely giver a 1989 date and all have "Los Angeles, Calif" for UM except for this which has "Novato ; Lancaster". I don't delve into External IDs as they don't really interest me enough. --Mavmaramis 06:17, 6 February 2021 (EST)
    Yes. It belongs to both the trade and the limited editions - no argument about that - it even carries both ISBNs. :) My question was about the reprint :) Annie 08:33, 8 February 2021 (EST)

    Armada Monster Books

    1; 2 & 4 were verified by you. The ISFDB titles don't match what's on the book covers. Are they different on the title pages? --Username 16:23, 7 February 2021 (EST)

    Yes. As clearly stated so in the notes for all three of those editions. --Mavmaramis 03:17, 8 February 2021 (EST)

    Title series ...

    ... since some years aren't indexed as part of a title (and shouldn't be put into the pub. series field). Stonecreek 03:47, 17 February 2021 (EST)

    And why is that especially when that series is printed on the title page ? --Mavmaramis 03:51, 17 February 2021 (EST)
    Well, it doesn't matter where it's printed: the title page may also print other information: publisher, location of publisher, symbols, publication series etc. Stonecreek 03:56, 17 February 2021 (EST)
    Some years back we had a major discussion on that topic about "The Lord of the Rings": some editions mention the title series on the title page of the respective novel (for example The Two Towers), while others don't. The result was to unify the title indexing as mentioned above. Stonecreek 04:14, 17 February 2021 (EST)
    That would mean that some books in a sequence (like the Road to Science Fiction for example) wouldn't immediately appear to be included as part of the series. In order to find that information out you'd have to go looking for it as opposed to it being obvious. Besides which having edits rejected without explanation is really unhelpful. And if the title page is the where one should take information from (such as the title) why are such edits rejected (especially without explanation) ? --Mavmaramis 05:25, 17 February 2021 (EST)
    I don't see anything rejected, just corrected. And the points you mention were part of the initial discussion, as I remember. Stonecreek 08:36, 17 February 2021 (EST)
    I wasn't part of that discussion or aware of it. My point about not being informed - whatever the reason - still stands. It would be helpful in future to be notfied about such things. I am not a mind reader and users may be unaware such discussions have occurred previously (they may well be buried in the archive somewhere). Why not direct them to such discussions instead of leaving a crytic message ? --Mavmaramis 09:08, 17 February 2021 (EST)
    Sorry! Since you've been around for more than five years it didn't occur to me that you might not know of it. How did you manage to get around this? ;-) Stonecreek 10:13, 17 February 2021 (EST)
    When you say "get around this" I assume you mean the discussion to which you made reference to. The answer is simple: By being unaware of the existance of such a discussion. When I joioned I dodn't immediately start verifying my collection. I was merely using the site to find unatribiuted book cover artists (those whom I recognised or were published in art portfolios like Cowley's pictoral volumes). I didn't start to verify my collection or make edits to the database until much later. --Mavmaramis 10:29, 17 February 2021 (EST)
    Well, that does explain something! Stonecreek 10:49, 17 February 2021 (EST)

    Giuseppe vs Guiseppe

    Hi, is it right that L'illustrazione di Fantascienza e Fantasy in Italia — Italian SF & Fantasy Art knows both two Giuseppe's and two Guiseppe's?--Dirk P Broer 08:39, 20 February 2021 (EST)

    In all instances the spelling should be Giuseppe. I have now corrected that error. --Mavmaramis 06:44, 21 February 2021 (EST)
    Thanks!--Dirk P Broer 07:19, 21 February 2021 (EST)

    Savage Hearts The Clyde Caldwell Sketchbook Volume 2

    A quick FYI -- checking your verified Savage Hearts The Clyde Caldwell Sketchbook Volume 2, I see that the author of the foreword is listed as "Holly Lislie". However, Amazon's Look Inside shows that her last name is spelled "Lisle", which matches our primary record for Holly Lisle. Ahasuerus 11:01, 9 March 2021 (EST)

    Entirely my fault for mistyping her name. I've edited the record. --Mavmaramis 11:38, 9 March 2021 (EST)
    Approved, thanks! Ahasuerus 12:33, 9 March 2021 (EST)



    Your note says "No ISBN, number 11003 printed sideways on back cover." but you added a Catalog number of 11002 here. I suspect one of those is a typo. Can you please correct whichever is wrong? If both are correct, a note explaining them will be very very helpful. Annie 01:23, 12 March 2021 (EST)

    The Penguin Encyclopedia of Horror and the Supernatural

    Just added some notes to this. Horzel 07:58, 12 March 2021 (EST)

    The Broken Sword

    Regarding this submersion. Based on the other prices, I question whether you have the same version as you are editing and whether instead there was a second 1977 reprinting. The current other prices do not match the first edition and the edit history shows there added by Bluesman (so not a carryover from an external source). Since every price differs, this would not a typo situation either. Thoughts? -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:14, 14 March 2021 (EDT)

    Definately not a 2nd 1977 reprint. The cover image for this edition] is the one for the edition I have and the other prices on the back are as I entered them from those printed on the back cover. Hope that makes things clear. --Mavmaramis 11:41, 14 March 2021 (EDT)
    How do you know the prices on Hauck & Bluesman version are not different than yours? What is the likelihood someone would have mistyped all four prices? I see you uploaded a new cover image. The previous version did not include the back cover so we cannot compare. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:21, 14 March 2021 (EDT)
    You miss the point. You are looking at record with the WRONG image attached to it. this edition has the cover for a LATER edition - as you have noted all the prices displayed on the rear are too high for record entry. Why am I having to explain this again when I have already explained it. --Mavmaramis 02:52, 15 March 2021 (EDT)
    There are currently two versions of this ISBN in the database:
    1. 1973 first edition with other prices of "UK 35p, Australia 1.10c, New Zealand 1.10c"
    2. 1977 reprinting with other prices of "$1.90 in Australia, $2.15 in NZ, 71½p in Rep of Ireland, 70c in Malta"
    Those two sets of prices are different which means the reprinting did not mistakenly clone the first edition. Those prices were specifically entered for the current 1977 record. Your submission is editing the second record and changing the prices to "A$2.95; NZ$2.95; Eire 93½p; Malta 85c". That is a third set of prices; all of which are higher than the current 1977 record's versions. If it had been one or two numbers, it could have been a typo. But when all of them are different, it makes it hard to believe you have the same version as Hauck and Bluesman. As for covers, I was talking about this one for the second edition. Hauk's original image (which can still be accessed by clicking the date & time next to his name) is only the front cover. The current version is one you uploaded. Therefore, the images don't help resolve the issue. Hopefully now the question is clear and you can address the disparity in prices on the second printing. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:18, 15 March 2021 (EDT)
    I can only go with the book I have in hand. "Reprinted 1977" That is the ONLY 1977 date on the copyright page. Other prices are as printed on rear cover. --Mavmaramis 04:38, 16 March 2021 (EDT)
    I am looking at the cover you uploaded and there seems to be a blob/sticker just where the UK price is. Can you see clearly under it on the book itself? Is it possible that it says £0.85 and not £0.65? See my page for the reason to ask if you want - this whole situation feels like a single printing with two separate covers (to allow for price increase) but having £0.65 is a bit inconsistent with the rest of the prices on the line so double checking? Thanks! Annie 18:45, 18 March 2021 (EDT)
    Not a sticker. That 'blob' is blue ballpoint pen where someone other than me has totally obliterated the price - it is sadly unreadable. Also please note that I have stated THREE times now that the cover image attached to record 119281 is the wrong image. --Mavmaramis 03:56, 19 March 2021 (EDT)
    The one with the obliterated UK price is the correct one for your second printing, correct? We can deal with the first printing and its cover as well (I will look in the morning) but I stopped by to ask about the second printing for now - we are trying to solve the problem of its double prices first. Too bad the UK price is not visible :(Thanks for checking. Annie 04:42, 19 March 2021 (EDT)
    The first edition cover: it was uploaded by you in 2015 from the looks of it (see also history and based on that, the old images were cleaned up here. I restored the old images so this one is sorted out I believe. Annie 15:37, 19 March 2021 (EDT)

    (Unindent). I believe I know what has happened. The other prices are actually those from record 262485. The other prices as printed are: Australia £2.95; New Zealand $2,95; Eire 93½p; Malta 85c. Copyright page has "First published....1973 / Reprinted 1977" - those are the only two dates printed there. --Mavmaramis 10:18, 19 March 2021 (EDT)

    record 262485. Having exactly the same prices does not necessarily mean that they are wrong in one of the books- two books published at the same time CAN have exactly the same price. And it is not a rote copy paste (see how they look in the two books):
    • Back cover lists prices of United Kingdom 65p - Australia $1.90 - New Zealand $2.15 - Rep of Ireland 71½p - Malta 70c
    • $1.90 in Australia, $2.15 in NZ, 71½p in Rep of Ireland, 70c in Malta.
    Someone typed these twice. It was wrong transfer, the line would be identical I think. And I really do not think that these higher prices in your book are consistent with a £0.65 price. 93 1/2p in Eire is always on a £0.85 UK price. See this search and this one. On the other hand all the 71 and a half are 0.65: here and thus one. If your update is approved, this book will be the ONLY one with 93 1/2p in Eire and £0.65 in UK. Which makes no sense. So your book seems to be a £0.85 one - in which case unless we somehow believe that all prices including the UK one up in the field were mistaken and both verifiers missed it, we really have two covers on this printing - one at 0.65 and one at 0.85. Annie 14:05, 19 March 2021 (EDT)
    Another thing to consider is that a later printing may not have updated the "First published....1973 / Reprinted 1977" line. It's not very common, but it happens. Ahasuerus 19:14, 19 March 2021 (EDT)
    Good point. Which also leads to not changing what we have but instead cloning for the new prices as it is not the same book as the one we have... Annie 19:25, 19 March 2021 (EDT)

    I have cloned the first 1977 edition and created a second 1977 edition using the information from Mavmaramis' edit to the first one. I then rejected Mavmaramis' edit. I also moved over Mavmaramis' cover to the second one and restored Hauck's cover to the first one. I added a note to each about the differences between the two. If anyone has better wording, please adjust. Mavmaramis, please move your verification from the first one to the second one. Thanks for bearing with us through this process. Annie & Ahasuerus, thanks for your help. -- JLaTondre (talk) 07:59, 20 March 2021 (EDT)

    That does sound like a fairly sensible solution. There was obviously some confusion / mixup somewhere along the line with data entry - where or when that was is unknown. Just a shame that certain booksellers decided in their infinite wisdom to obliterate the UK price on the back cover. I have a number of such expamples aquired from various second hand sources. --Mavmaramis 08:13, 20 March 2021 (EDT)
    Just added a note on the UK price and where it is coming from - hopefully someone else will have that exact copy so we can find the UK price one day. As always, feel free to rewrite/change if needed. :) Annie 14:44, 20 March 2021 (EDT)

    The Moment of Eclipse

    Regarding this submission: You already have a verified 1979 version of this ISBN here. That entry is from 2015 and is lacking details. Are you sure your new one is not a duplicate? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:19, 14 March 2021 (EDT)

    Ahh ok. I should have gone down the list as opposed to looking at the cover images. You can merge the two since they are indeed the same edition. My fault entirely. --Mavmaramis 11:44, 14 March 2021 (EDT)
    It is not possible to merge publications. I have accepted your new edit since it had notes and deleted the old one without. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:24, 14 March 2021 (EDT)

    Three Hearts and Three Lions

    Hi, about Three Hearts and Three Lions Did you have any contact with Holmesd about the 74p vs 71½p? You each might have a different printing.--Dirk P Broer 19:52, 14 March 2021 (EDT)

    No he hasn't, but a) I no longer have the publication, b) it was a transient verification in 2008, c) the price was added/revised by Mhhutchins in 2009, d) I've no record of what Mhhutchins had to say about it in my talk pages. So I may not in fact have verified the information regarding price (it was my first year on ISFDB). Doubt this helps, but it is what it is. ../Doug H 22:54, 14 March 2021 (EDT)
    The 74p was, in my opinion, an error on the part of whoever entered the data. They didn't look closely enough to see it was 71½ not 74. 71½p is the price that is printed. I know, I looked. It was the only correction I had to make to the record. --Mavmaramis 02:57, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

    The Goblins of Labyrinth

    Does this book have The at the start of the title on its title page? Thanks! Annie 17:35, 13 April 2021 (EDT)

    Yes it does. Assume the cover image is that of the hardback edition. I've uploaded an image scanned from my Henry Holt trade paperback edition.--Mavmaramis 09:43, 14 April 2021 (EDT)
    Thanks! Someone used the same path on both so I had to rescue the old cover to put it on the harcover (in case you wonder what's with all the reverts in the image now). Back to normal. You may need to reload a few times to get the covers where the belong (because of how the caching of these images work)... Annie 12:33, 14 April 2021 (EDT)
    All looks fine for me now. Correct cover that I uploaded is showing for the tp Henry Holt edition. --Mavmaramis 14:44, 14 April 2021 (EDT)
    Yep - I had to pull it out to find the HC one and then restored it back. Which causes a bit of a flux for a bit. Thanks again! Annie 14:53, 14 April 2021 (EDT)

    What Is Dungeons and Dragons?


    Would you happen to still have access to this book or any memories about its authors. The cover has "John Butterfield, Philip Parker, David Honigmann" and the title page on archive.org seems to agree. As you verified, I would rather not change it without checking with you in case we have different copies. Thanks! Annie 21:47, 16 April 2021 (EDT)

    That was definately the copy I had. Whether the title page had all three authors I can't say. At some point at the beginning of this year I had a clear out of a large quantity books - duplicates, ones without dustwrappers and other tangental non fiction material. I changed the verification of all of those listed on ISFDB from "perminent" to "transient" and this was one such item which I no longer have. Sorry. --Mavmaramis 17:09, 17 April 2021 (EDT)
    I had been looking at it some more. It seems to be game-related and not really fiction related... Would you mind terribly if I just delete the whole thing? It is not eligible (unless I am missing something). And this note kinda believes the same. What do you think? Annie 12:47, 22 April 2021 (EDT)
    Hello Annie. Yes it is indeed a sort-of 'primer' like a 'dummies guide' to the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game. Not, I suspect, eligable so no issues if you delete it. You may want to look into this publication as well which was another that didn't survive my 2021 lockdown book cull. It is also extremely tangental although there is a listing for two editions by different publishers I was (am) the only verifier for the Arms and Armour Press 1981 edition. You may also want to review this - there are two variants of the same title (one with an '&' and one without) - title page of my copy definately has '&'. It does contain artwork of arists listed on ISFDB - Keith Parkinson, Larry Elmore &c. At what point does fantasy roleplaying material become "speculative fiction". These four atlas type publications for example.

    Have I opened a can of worms here ? --Mavmaramis 10:31, 27 April 2021 (EDT)

    Journeys og the Mind

    A few things about this one:

    • "og" or "of" in the title?
    • Contents with no page numbers shows up at the top of the contents listing. If you want an interior art piece to show up after its story, use a piped page number. For example if the story is on page 7, use |7.1 for the interior art (or |6.9 if you want it before it) :)

    Let me know if you have any questions! Annie 13:34, 20 April 2021 (EDT)

    OF not OG - an obvious typo. Interior art content with no page numbers - I did that deliberately because there is more than one image per story hence why it was entered the way it was - it was easier for me to copy paste titles. Hope that answers your questions. --Mavmaramis 14:33, 20 April 2021 (EDT)
    So you are ok with them clustering at the top of the contents? Please note that the piped pages will be used to sort the titles but won’t show up - thus putting the art next to the stories they belong to but without page numbers. Annie 16:58, 20 April 2021 (EDT)
    Yes. There are lots of entries on ISFDB that are similar eg, this. --Mavmaramis 07:29, 21 April 2021 (EDT)
    Some of them predate the ability to order them with the pipes. But that’s ok - just making sure. :) Annie 11:06, 21 April 2021 (EDT)

    The Art of Paperblue: An Instructional Companion for the Digital Artist

    You left the "n" off of "companion" throughout the pub. Bob 16:34, 24 April 2021 (EDT)

    An obvious typo. --Mavmaramis 01:25, 25 April 2021 (EDT)

    Stardrift cover artist credit

    When adding information from secondary sources, please put the source in the pub notes and not the moderator notes. That way it is easily available for everyone to see. I have updated the pub notes for the two Stardrift records to show your source for the cover artist credit. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:31, 13 May 2021 (EDT)

    I would have done so but since using HTML to link to an external source is problematic even if i follow the instructions to the letter it still doesn't dipslay correctly. --Mavmaramis 02:34, 14 May 2021 (EDT)

    Importing titles

    Hello. Just an FYI - instead of entering titles separately, you can always import them from another publication. Importing titles is only one edit, as opposed to entering a title, and then having to merge it with the already-existing one, which are two edits (see your edit here). Regards, MagicUnk 08:19, 28 May 2021 (EDT)

    Totally not the edit I made at all. I merely added the missing cover art credit. --Mavmaramis 08:45, 28 May 2021 (EDT)
    Exactly what I meant. You didn't have to add the cover art credit the way you did - you could have imported the already-existing cover art title record into the publication instead, which would have saved one merge edit - no big deal, but thought I'd mention it anyway. Regards, MagicUnk 11:15, 11 June 2021 (EDT)

    printing vs edition

    Hi, any edition can have a first printing -of that specific edition. 'Apparent first printing' so isn't restricted to the first edition.--Dirk P Broer 09:09, 11 June 2021 (EDT)

    Just being clear where it might appear otherwise. --Mavmaramis 10:10, 11 June 2021 (EDT)
    I once had a discussion on eBay related to this; A seller was offering a "1st edition" of 'Hurricanes over Murmansk' -the Airlife Classic edition, by no means the 1st. It may have been the 1st printing for Airlife Classics (so a case of 'Apparent first printing'). The 'Classic' should in fact already have warned him. I pointed him to the Patrick Stephens Ltd edition published some years before, but he answered "This discussion serves no purpose". Thought of giving him up for fraudulous offering.--Dirk P Broer 19:02, 11 June 2021 (EDT)
    I have also had issues with book dealer descriptions being somewhat vague. I bought a book from an seller on Amazon and their description was "All pages are intact" yet it arrived with the copyright page torn out ! The issue with paperbacks is that someone might assume there is a hardback (thus "first") edition and if the notes are unclear it might not appear so. Better, in my opinion, to have too much information (which can be deleted if incorrect) than not enough. --Mavmaramis 05:22, 12 June 2021 (EDT)

    Busy About the Tree of Life and Other Stories

    Fyi, I'm changing this pub back to TP size. According to the help screen, paperbacks larger than 7.25" tall or 4.5" wide/deep should be entered as "tp". Since this one is 7.8" x 5" it's definitely not a "pb". I'll leave the note about the size, but as an argument for "tp". Thanks, --Willem 13:31, 14 June 2021 (EDT)

    Thanks. Same applie to this publication which is identical in size. I've gone ahead and made the edit to that record. --Mavmaramis 13:50, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
    Approved. Thanks! --Willem 14:09, 14 June 2021 (EDT)

    Unicorn / Unwin Paperbacks vs Unwin Paperbacks

    Hi, I see you are expanding the notes of many Unicorn / Unwin Paperbacks editions with the remark "First Unwin Paperbacks edition, in its Unicorn fiction/fantasy series". If I read this correctly, the publisher name as we use it is incorrect and there is missing info in the publication series field. Furthermore a proposed 'Unicorn fiction/fantasy series' could be expanded beyond publisher Unwin Paperbacks. E.g. publishers Unwin, and Unicorn Bookshop. What do you think?--Dirk P Broer 18:03, 15 June 2021 (EDT)

    I seem not to be alone in seeing this as a publication series, and like this page I think 'Unicorn fiction/fantasy series' can be seen as 'Unicorn fantasy fiction series' in reality.--Dirk P Broer 18:13, 15 June 2021 (EDT)
    The notes you refer to "First Unwin Paperbacks edition, in its Unicorn fiction/fantasy series; Unicorn logo on front and back cover, Unwin logo on spine; Cover artist credited on rear cover." were copied verbaitm from a Unicorn / Unwin Paperbacks publication that already had those exact words in the notes. As far as I can tell Unicorn shouldn't even be part of the publisher as NOWHERE in the publication (except for rear cover and the Unicorn logo) does it state Unicorn as being the publisher - strictly Unwin. I've got more from this series turning up so let me know what decision you make. Unicorn Bookshops has NOTHING to do with these publications whatsoever. --Mavmaramis 12:46, 16 June 2021 (EDT)
    Oke, so we can limit the publication series to those publications that are published by Unwin (under whatever imprint) and share a common 'Unicorn' logo. I also agree that nothing in these books states that Unicorn publishes the books, the copyright page clearly just has Unwin Paperbacks as publisher.--Dirk P Broer 14:40, 16 June 2021 (EDT)
    Be aware some state "Fantasy/Fiction" and some state "Fantasy Fiction" [no slash] on back cover. But all have the Unicorn logo on front cover and state UNICORN on rear. Whatever you decide is best is fine by me. More from that publisher (series) will be tooling up from Amazon in the next few days. --Mavmaramis 15:18, 16 June 2021 (EDT)
    Whatever you two decide to do, please add notes to the Pub series page explaining all this :) Annie 15:21, 17 June 2021 (EDT)
    I'm leaving it up to Dirk to make the decision as to what changes should/ought/need to me made. --Mavmaramis 16:34, 17 June 2021 (EDT)

    The Walls of Air

    Regarding this submission: I'd wager it had "Erroneously stated as first published by Unwin Paperbacks 1985" because The Walls of Air was first published in 1983 by Dell Ray. I assume the publisher meant "this edition first published". I updated the wording to show it was a quote from the copyright page to reduce future confusion. I also restored the quoted text from the back cover the prior editor had. Some editors prefer more detail & while it is not required to go to that level, we shouldn't remove it when it is present. Let me know if I misunderstood anything. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 13:58, 19 June 2021 (EDT)

    That's fine. Although why restore the quote when my edit stated the same thing - so really what's the difference between "Cover artist credited on rear cover" and "Cover illustration artists name on back cover" - they say exactly the same thing. As far as publication information goes I write what's printed on the copyright page anyway so it does seem to me, at least, somewhat redundant to state "on copyright page" unless there's a specific reason for doing so in order to clarify something that would otherwise be "vague" - just an IMHO and nothing personal (and "grumbles"). --Mavmaramis 15:36, 19 June 2021 (EDT)
    "Cover Illustration David O’Connor" is (or should be since it's in quotes) a quote of what is on the back cover. Cover artist credited on rear cover is a summary. The first gives how the artwork is credited, the second does not. I would typically just give the summary, but as I said, other editors like to be more specific. A book cover with "Cover illustration by NAME" is unambiguously crediting the artist. A cover with "Cover by NAME" could be crediting the artist or the designer. -- JLaTondre (talk) 15:57, 19 June 2021 (EDT)

    Robot Book

    http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?514832; I added cover images to the first 2 editions of this book, which are the same except for Penguin logo, and noticed all, including yours, say "PREDICTION", not "PREDICTIONS". If your copy has the singular title, the record should be fixed to reflect that. --Username 14:07, 2 July 2021 (EDT)

    Records amended --Mavmaramis 15:00, 2 July 2021 (EDT)

    Jean West Penna's Strange Territory

    A quick question about your verified Strange Territory. The date field says "1984-00-00", but the Note field says "Published in Australia 1983 by Walrus Books". Would you happen to know what's causing the discrepancy? I have found an excerpt from a 1984-03-24 review in Canberra Times, so the book was likely published either in late 1983 or (if delayed) early 1984. OCLC says "1983". TIA! Ahasuerus 15:26, 4 July 2021 (EDT)

    Should be 1983 as stated. The 1984 date was an error. --Mavmaramis 16:01, 4 July 2021 (EDT)
    Updated, thanks! Ahasuerus 17:24, 5 July 2021 (EDT)

    Science Fiction Illustrations

    A quick question about your verified Science Fiction Illustrations: is "Which One Di I Open First?" spelled that way? Or is "Di" a misspelling of "Did" or "Do"? Ahasuerus 16:54, 21 July 2021 (EDT)

    Misspelling of "Do" --Mavmaramis 00:41, 22 July 2021 (EDT)
    Updated -- thanks for checking! Ahasuerus 13:07, 22 July 2021 (EDT)

    Clone of October the First Is Too Late

    I'm holding your clone of October the First Is Too Late. I believe that we already have that publication listed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:13, 22 July 2021 (EDT)

    Thanks. I've cancelled the submission. --Mavmaramis 12:36, 22 July 2021 (EDT)

    Maps in a Mirror covers

    Hi. I have your submission on hold that proposes to make the 1992 Maps in a Mirror cover a variant of the 1991 cover. The artwork does not look the same to me:

    • The fiery swoosh wraps around the planet vs. ending at the planet
    • In one the planet has a red spot, in the other it does not.
    • The schematic diagrams are different

    Even with explicit Rodgers credits in both publications, and even though they are similar, I think the differences are substantial enough to treat the later one as a "major" revision of the earlier one. In that case, we would not make one a variant of the other. We only use variants for different credits/titles associated with the same piece of art, not for tracking derivatives. What do you think? --MartyD 08:14, 16 August 2021 (EDT)

    Agreed. Seems a pity you can't link the two somehow. --Mavmaramis 11:20, 16 August 2021 (EDT)
    Well, we could add cross-references in their notes. That's not as nice as a variant link, but it should help anyone looking at further instances of that artwork. --MartyD 10:36, 17 August 2021 (EDT)
    Should have thought about that. As good an idea as any. Ugh how I hate HTML..... --Mavmaramis 11:57, 17 August 2021 (EDT)

    Galactic Encounters

    Please see this discussion. Can you agree with changing the books in the Galactic Encounters series from NONFICTION to COLLECTION? Thanks, --Willem 16:32, 20 August 2021 (EDT)

    I've added my contribution. --Mavmaramis 16:38, 20 August 2021 (EDT)

    The Demon Lord

    I put image URLs to The Demon Lord here and here, please confirm. Thanks. --Zapp 04:03, 1 October 2021 (EDT)

    No images appear on either of those two entries. Neither of the editions you point to are ones I own so no idea why you have informed me. There is already an image for this edition which the one I own. The Arrow edition had a large L shaped sun fade top and left so I didn't scan it before disposing of it. --Mavmaramis 06:46, 1 October 2021 (EDT)
    Sorry, my contributions have been verified after the time You answered. Now the images are to see. And I didn't recognize before that You verified transient. --Zapp 14:20, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
    Alrighty. However this entry still has the wrong information. Cover art is stated to be Peter Jones when the book cover image is for this edition. --Mavmaramis 15:59, 5 October 2021 (EDT)

    Bretnor's Modern Science Fiction


    You have marked your copy of the 1979 printing of Reginald Betnor's Modern Science Fiction: Its Meaning and Its Future with a Tuck secondary verification. Since Tuck only covers through 1968 and the Volume that includes Bretnor was published in 1974, he doesn't cover a 1979 printing. He does have the 1953 Coward-McCann printing as well as a Canadian Longman's printing that we don't have. In any case, the Tuck verification should probably be removed from this publication. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:52, 6 October 2021 (EDT)

    If I knew how to do that I would but I don't. --Mavmaramis 05:01, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
    Go to the verification screen for the book (here) for this one. As you are holding the verification for Tuck, you will be able to select the radio box in the first column (not verified) on that line. Press update at the bottom. Annie 05:11, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
    Done. --Mavmaramis 06:08, 29 October 2021 (EDT)

    Date for Settlers in Space

    Hi Mavmaramis

    I will be adding the Reginald and Worldcat numbers to your verified publication of Settlers in Space. Reginald has the date as 1980, so I'm going to go ahead and change that too and note the source. Please let me know if you have any issues with that. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 22:54, 7 November 2021 (EST)

    No issues. --Mavmaramis 12:53, 10 November 2021 (EST)

    Dream Makers: Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers at Work

    Can you take another look at the price of this verified pub? My copy looks identical, only the price on the backcover is £9.95. Thanks for checking, --Willem 14:41, 12 November 2021 (EST)

    Yes £9.95 it is. I've submitted the correction. --Mavmaramis 14:48, 12 November 2021 (EST)
    And approved. Thanks! --Willem 15:02, 12 November 2021 (EST)

    Bleiler's "Science Fiction Writers:"

    I'm trying to verifa my copy of Science Fiction Writers, but can't decide which one I have. You verified the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?267640 second printing, but the notes state: "Undated 2nd printing - number line thus: "1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19 Q/C 20 18 16 14 12 10 8 6 4 2" ". Can you check the numberline again? I.m.o. the econd printing should not have the "1" in the numberline, or does it state "second printing"? Thanks for checking. --Willem 16:52, 24 November 2021 (EST)

    Right. I've checked my copy. You are correct about the numberline - mine is as you quoted. I've removed the verification from the undated 2nd printing and verified the first printing and added moved the notes from this entry to this entry. Copyright pasge just has a 1982 copyright date no "second edition" statement. Hope that helps. --Mavmaramis 17:28, 24 November 2021 (EST)
    I merged the two COVERART records (reminder: we have import...) :) A small proposal if I may - at the moment both printings have the same cover link, using the ID which belongs to the second printing. If someone ever decides to upload a new image for the second printing, the image for the first will also be changed without anyone even realizing it is happening. So re-uploading the cover with the "Upload new cover scan" link instead of re-using the link is a better idea. Annie 17:36, 24 November 2021 (EST)
    It isn't likely the cover art of the 2nd printing will be different from the 1st but fair point. --Mavmaramis 00:07, 25 November 2021 (EST)
    Thanks for making this clear! I verified the first printing, imported the contents and uploaded the coverscan from my copy. I think you forgot to add your verification here. --Willem 08:39, 25 November 2021 (EST)

    Moonsinger's Friends

    I think the canonical title of this should be "Moonsinger's Friends: An Anthology in Honor of Andre Norton". Would you please look at your copy and see if that matches what's on its title page instead of the shorter "Moonsinger's Friends" that's on the record? I have a copy of the Bluejay trade paperback and the record in the DB is wrong for it so I am just trying to check with others who have a PV on the other pubs before recommending a change to the canonical title. Thanks! Phil 12:29, 27 November 2021 (EST)

    Can confirm title page states "Moonsinger's Friends (above) An Anthology in Honor of Andre Norton" --Mavmaramis 13:32, 27 November 2021 (EST)
    Thank you. May I make that change to your pub? Phil 14:07, 27 November 2021 (EST)
    I've already submitted the change of title to my publication. --Mavmaramis 14:08, 27 November 2021 (EST)
    Thanks for your assistance. Phil 14:46, 27 November 2021 (EST)

    Space Art

    Hi, Mavmaramis. If you could, would you add the illustrations in this book?--Rosab618 15:32, 8 December 2021 (EST)

    That would be a major task since almost every page has one (or more) images. It's a hard pass from me. Sorry. --Mavmaramis 00:30, 9 December 2021 (EST)
    One quick note - the same request was made to the first printing PV here. Please cross reference the two requests the next time - if both of them had actually added the art, we would have needed to do a ton of merges in addition to 2 editors doing the same work, losing everyone’s time by doing the same work twice as opposed to splitting It (for example) and adding the extra work to merge the images. Thanks! Annie 00:53, 9 December 2021 (EST)
    Since Markwood has indicated he will add content then I'll lave that task to him. --Mavmaramis 12:17, 9 December 2021 (EST)

    Ariel: The Book of Fantasy, Volume Four

    You uploaded this image with a template that says it belongs to this pub. However, that image is not used on that pub (which instead uses this image). Your image has a slightly different color, however. Is that just a scan effect and the image can be deleted as a duplicate? Or where you trying to show an alternate cover and not got around to linking it from the publication? -- JLaTondre (talk) 13:27, 30 December 2021 (EST)

    See this conversation. --Mavmaramis 15:06, 30 December 2021 (EST)
    That seems to indicate Image:AERIAL4.jpg is not needed anymore and can be deleted as a duplicate. Is that correct? -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:37, 30 December 2021 (EST)
    I guess so. Mhhutchins probably forgot to delete it. --Mavmaramis 00:50, 31 December 2021 (EST)

    Out of Space and Time: Volume II

    Fyi, concerning the foreword (Clark Ashton Smith: Master of Fantasy) in this verified pub. It's in the database as by uncredited, but it's signed as by August Derleth and Donald Wandrei. I'm going to change the credit and merge it with this essay (see the statement at the bottom of page 7). Hope you can agree. Thanks, --Willem 16:54, 1 January 2022 (EST)

    No problem. --Mavmaramis 00:29, 2 January 2022 (EST)

    Phantasia: Of Dockland, Rockland and Dodos


    Let's talk about this one and its related titles. As the publication record is by Alan Aldridge, the NONFICTION record will also need to be by Alan Aldridge. We can add an extra interior art by him and switch the Willock title to an essay if you want but if you want the nonfiction to record to be by Willock, the author of the books will also need to be him - and that is just wrong from what I am seeing. Let me know how you want to proceed. Annie 17:53, 11 January 2022 (EST)

    I wasn't entirely sure where to start with this book. The interior art is by Aldridge not Willock and the text is by Willock. Although Aldridge's name is on the cover the title page makes it more clear the art is by Aldridge. I hope that clear up the situation. Let me know where best to start with editing this please as I have notes to add to the Jonathan Cape edition I recently acquired ? --Mavmaramis 00:09, 12 January 2022 (EST)
    The best way I can think of:
    • Leave the non-fiction as is (so it matches the title page and the cover and so on). Are both names on the title page? Because of Aldridge's is there, that may change a few things...
    • Change the Willock thing to an essay (thus fixing what he had done really). Now - if both their names go on the title record, then this won't be needed - so let's first figure out the title page and then the rest will follow.
    • Add an interiorart record by Aldridge to cover for his art.
    What do you think? Annie 17:15, 14 January 2022 (EST)
    Title page has Alan Aladridge (over) "illustrated in colaboration with Harry Willock". I already attempted to change them around (Aldridge to interior art, Willock to nonfiction) but you rejected those edits. Also "the Willock thing" isn't an essay it's nonfiction since he wrote the text of the book ! --Mavmaramis 01:42, 15 January 2022 (EST)
    The author of the book (the publication) and the author of the non-fiction title record need to be the same. When you tried to swap them, you had Aldridge as the book author and Willock as the title author. That would have needed fixing in one of the two directions again - which is why I came over to see what you are trying to do so we can find the missing change.
    Based on that title page, we can add both authors as book authors and on the non-fiction title. If you want to indicate that Willock wrote the text, you can add an essay with the same name as the book (non-fiction is both a text and a container - if they need to have separate authors, the text needs to be added as an essay) . Or you can do that just in the notes and leave just the non-fiction record with both authors on it. Then you can either remove the interior art record (as the coauthor status already shows that he is part of it) or switch it to Aldridge. Alternatively - change both the non-fiction title and the book/publication author to Willock and switch the interior art to Aldridge. Let me know if you want me to do the change or just submit it if you prefer? Annie 02:14, 15 January 2022 (EST)
    Adding both Aldridge & Wilock as authors seems to be a good idea. The interior art is all by Aldridge (same stuff that's in this publication) and again I reiterate the entirety of the non fiction text is by Willock and so can't be an essay can it. If you could do the changes then I can add notes to the copy I PVd. --Mavmaramis 03:10, 15 January 2022 (EST)
    It can be an essay - essay is any non-fiction text inside of a book/magazine so if you want a record just for the text portion with just his name on it, it needs to be an essay. One of those small oddities in the DB - it’s because the non-fiction represents the whole book (think of chapbooks and short stories - we have two records there, just one here). However - just having the two of them as authors is also enough anyway and probably less confusing in the long run - so I’d do the changes in the morning and fix that interior art piece and let you know so you can add notes and so on. Thanks for explaining how how Title page looks like :) Annie 03:34, 15 January 2022 (EST)
    Done - as discussed. Feel free to edit further and thanks for providing the details. (And sorry for the delay - was away unexpectedly). Annie 13:53, 18 January 2022 (EST)
    Alrighty thanks. I've added notes and a cover art credit. --Mavmaramis 14:00, 18 January 2022 (EST)

    The Night Land

    Please see this submission which impacts your verified pub. It is changing the pub notes & the cover artist. Are these database typos or are typos in the pub? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:04, 14 January 2022 (EST)

    Just going to point out that PV entered the cover artist's name correctly in his notes, the same name on the back cover which is visible in the cover image, and then misspelled it when he entered the name in the cover artist field, and the original publisher's name wasn't entered in quotes and thus likely was not taken from the book itself but entered from somewhere else (maybe ISFDB) which either misspelled the publisher's name or possibly PV made a mistake again. --Username 18:29, 14 January 2022 (EST)
    We give the verifier the curtesy of checking with them. Not only because it's polite, but because in a small fraction of cases, it turns out to not be as simple as it looks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:40, 15 January 2022 (EST)
    Cover artists name as entered in the field was a typo and the original publisher's name (Grafton) was taken from the publication not anywhere else so I can't see the "mistake" in that field that you see. Anyway corrections are all good --Mavmaramis 01:48, 15 January 2022 (EST)
    The publisher name that was wrong was the original 1912 one that you entered in your notes as "Eeleigh" Nash which I corrected to Eveleigh Nash. --Username 07:47, 15 January 2022 (EST)
    Ahh ok --Mavmaramis 09:43, 15 January 2022 (EST)

    Many Futures, Many Worlds

    Hi Mavmaramis - I was making some minor edits to Clareson's Many Futures, Many Worlds: Theme and Form in Science Fiction, adding external identifiers. I also happened upon a a link to a scan of the publication. From that scan, I have added page numbers for each item. However, I also found a few discrepancies between the scan and how we have titles listed: We have the Schmidt essay with out the initial article (We have "Science in Science Fiction" without the initial "The" that appears on the title page; The credit for the Rhodes essay does not include her middle initial. I'm going to go ahead and make both correction. Please let me know if your copy disagrees with the scan. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:21, 15 January 2022 (EST)

    Schmit essay title is "The Science in Science Fiction". As for Rhodes her middle initial only appears on the contents page. --Mavmaramis 23:59, 15 January 2022 (EST)

    Blind Stamp Her Smoke Rose Up Forever

    Since you asked in a comment, a blind stamp is where they take a tool and stamp something without ink. You question was in reference to the cover, so it is indicating that there would be an indented area in the shape of a maple leaf, but without ink. Hope this helps. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 14:43, 26 January 2022 (EST)

    Thank you. My copy's dustwrapper definately does not have anything like that on the rear cover although it is a BOMC edition as it has "Printed in the USA" on the rear flap of the dustwrapper. --Mavmaramis 14:56, 26 January 2022 (EST)
    US vs Canadian edition/cover of BOMC maybe? Annie 15:03, 26 January 2022 (EST)
    The blind stamping would probably be in the boards or binding cloth rather than the dustwrapper. I know nothing about the specific book, but there certainly could be variations. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 20:30, 26 January 2022 (EST)
    I have now found it after much searching - bottom right on the back cover board. --Mavmaramis 23:55, 26 January 2022 (EST)


    Hi, could you check the cover of this 1988 edition? The cover shown shows a price of £2.25 which clashes with the £2.99 price on the ISFDB page. I think the 1988 edition should have the Peter Jones cover shown at Abebooks. Thanks. Horzel 07:46, 4 February 2022 (EST)

    Right. I have the 1985 edition so I've removed my verification from that puba nd transferred it to the other one. --Mavmaramis 11:22, 4 February 2022 (EST)

    Moderator notes

    Saying "adding note" when making a change is not very useful. Once approved, noone can see what changed unless they tracked it back and we still have all the old entries - all they see here is which field is changed. I know that the system can be built better, with the ability to easily show the exact changes in the history but that's not how the system works so we need to work around that.

    It will be a bit more useful to say "added note about the cover artist attribution" in cases like this one. You can also see what I mean by "cannot see the difference" when looking at the entry in the history. Hope this makes sense and thanks for adding the note! Annie 12:04, 4 February 2022 (EST)

    Ok I'll do that in future. I agree as I often see items in "My Changed Verifications" that I have no idea whats been changed as there isn't anything different between the "Current Changes" column and the "Proposed Changes" column. --Mavmaramis 12:07, 4 February 2022 (EST)
    Yep, known limitation of the history (and changed verifications) - once approved, we lose the "old" value. So you see the "new" value on both sides - we repurposed a different system to be used for these (the approval system basically - before approval, the moderators see the new and old values properly) and that system never needed the old value post approval. So we kinda have a history now - but not inside of a single entry as one will hope. So you can see which fields are changed but not what exactly - thus the moderator notes requirement. If you need to see what changed, you can check the previous update where there is a change log in reverse essentially). Thanks! Annie 14:00, 4 February 2022 (EST)

    Space Relations full title

    Would you please look at the title page for this and see if it actually reads "Space Relations: A Slightly Gothic Interplanetary Tale" instead of just "Space Relations"? All of the external ID records for this pub show the long form. Thanks! Phil 16:28, 2 March 2022 (EST)

    Yes. Noted only on the title page. --Mavmaramis 00:23, 3 March 2022 (EST)

    Beyond Lies the Wub - TOC order


    I see that you are the PV for the 1990 edition of Grafton's "Beyond Lies the Wub" (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?274738).

    In pursuing another project, I noticed that the titles in this edition are organized in alphabetical order, with no title order information listed.

    I am prepared to be wrong, but a later printing of this Grafton edition by Harper Voyager (Internet Archive) shows a title order that matches the other editions of the Grafton version.

    I'd be happy to re-order them to match and make sense, but I'd like your confirmation that the order shown is not correct. Other versions I have seen start with "Preface", "Introduction", "Stability" and end with "Nanny" and "Notes".

    Thanks for your help. Dave888 21:35, 3 March 2022 (EST)

    That's fine and yes order is as you state. I'm guessing it's in alphabetical order due to their being no page numbers associated with the content. --Mavmaramis 00:39, 4 March 2022 (EST)
    My thanks for the confirmation. I will take care of that.

    I am used to some changes in order between different versions of anthologies, especially from different publishers. However, this seemed rather random, and when I checked I saw no page numbers or order numbers which I assume led to a default alphabetical order. Dave888 10:48, 4 March 2022 (EST)

    They are not exactly random - there is no order really so the order is based on the IDs inside of the table where the pub/title connections are and the title IDs themselves. So as a rule, if you want the order to stay, always use piped numbers. We tried to change the order to alphabetical a few years back with disastrous results - in most omnibuses and anthologies, the default order works well enough - it is when things get merged/imported later when the order gets out of whack. :) Annie 12:29, 4 March 2022 (EST)
    Thanks. Interesting, and good to know. I'll fix it anyway.Dave888 18:57, 4 March 2022 (EST)
    The short advice is: Always use page numbers (piped or not - depending on the format and what you know) when you know the order in a book ;) Annie 21:03, 4 March 2022 (EST)

    My apologies.

    One more question on the TOC for the Grafton 1990 "Beyond Lies the Wub"

    Upon looking at this version, it includes the "Foreword" by Steven Owen Godersky. I don't see that in the other Grafton versions of "Beyond Lies the Wub". Can you confirm for me if it is present or not in this edition? Thanks.Dave888 12:04, 6 March 2022 (EST)

    No it contains no such Foreword. Only a Preface by Dick and Introduction by Zelazny. p.501-510 are Notes. Edited to place your addendum here instead of a new section. --Mavmaramis 12:43, 6 March 2022 (EST)
    Thanks for both things. I'll take care of that edit. I appreciate your help.Dave888 19:09, 6 March 2022 (EST)


    http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?514408; I changed all dates except that of original edition to original edition's date. --Username 19:06, 4 March 2022 (EST)

    Ellison Essay

    http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?20843; Hard to believe a Harlan Ellison collection wouldn't have page #'s entered but I found one and entered them from an eBay copy, [2]; however, the essay "Motherhood..." doesn't appear on the contents page. If you as PV still have the book maybe you can enter # of it. --Username 19:25, 6 March 2022 (EST)

    Destination: Void

    Regarding this submission: We already have an entry for the 1985 reprinting here. Your entry would seem to be a duplicate. Am I missing something? -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:48, 18 March 2022 (EDT)

    Yes. As my note made clear my copy has a black Penguin sticker with higher prices stuck on the back obscuring the lower price. --Mavmaramis 01:33, 19 March 2022 (EDT)
    I saw that. Is the sticker clearly the publisher's or is it a bookseller's that just added the publisher's name? We don't create new records based on "aftermarket" pricing. If it's the publisher's, then there is a case for it. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:30, 19 March 2022 (EDT)
    As I clearly stated in my previous reply "a black Penguin sticker" - i.e. the sticker is clearly the publishers. --Mavmaramis 12:46, 19 March 2022 (EDT)
    I created a Community Portal post to gather feedback on how we want to handle this case. You are welcome to participate. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:16, 19 March 2022 (EDT)

    The Forest of Forever

    Regarding this submission: You removed "First printing as per copyright page." from the publication notes. Was that intentional? Does your publication not have that statement? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:50, 18 March 2022 (EDT)

    No my publication does not specifically have the words "first printing" on the copyright page hence why I edited the notes to reflect the publication history that was actually printed. --Mavmaramis 01:31, 19 March 2022 (EDT)
    While it's possible Hauck made an error, he was usually pretty conscientious. Since he's no longer around to ask, we will have to accept that there was a version that stated first printing. You should clone instead and make a note that there is no printing statement in your addition. I have rejected the edit. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:20, 19 March 2022 (EDT)
    Except my copy is exactly the same edition as the one lited. Hauck may have used the words "First printing" to mean first Mayflower printing but even then as stated those specific words do not appear on copyright page so I don't see why I shouldb be required to clone an identical publication. Hpowever I will do so. --Mavmaramis 12:42, 19 March 2022 (EDT)
    The existing publication note states that the publication specifically stated it was a first printing. You are stating that your publication does not. That's a big difference. While it could be Hauck made a mistake, it is also possible you have a reprint. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:12, 19 March 2022 (EDT)
    No I definately do not have a reprint. Publication details are as stated - Mayflower 1975 no other additional printing stated on copyright page so it cannot be a reprint. --Mavmaramis 17:16, 19 March 2022 (EDT)
    Okay, I have asked for a second opinion. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:20, 19 March 2022 (EDT)
    In the last few weeks I was told by another moderator that he used "Stated first printing" in the past when there was no number line but there was a "First Statement: January 1975" for example on the title page - in the few cases I moderated, most of the other PVs were still active as well so we got to the bottom of what the case is.
    It had made me wonder how many of our old "First printing per copyright page" notes are not essentially "First printing because the copyright page does not list any others and that publisher always does for a reprint" instead of actual "first printing specifically stated" notes. And this note is from before 2013 for sure so who knows... Considering all of that, I think that editing the note to read: "PV1 noted "First printing as per copyright page." but there is no printing statement on the copyright page so the statement possibly means that there is no information for later printings" or something along these lines and keeping that as a single publication is a better idea. I don't mind us cloning either - but that being 1975 publication, chances are that there is indeed just one of those around. Annie 16:48, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
    PS: See this for how Mayflower notes reprints... (just as a example). Annie 16:50, 20 March 2022 (EDT)
    Sounds good. I have unrejected the submission, approved, and added the note. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:52, 20 March 2022 (EDT)

    (Unindent) Thanks for your quite thorough investigation. --Mavmaramis 01:25, 21 March 2022 (EDT)

    Aldiss / Earthworks

    I am editing / PVing Aldiss's Earthworks. I will change the author's name from "Brian W. Aldiss" to "Brian Aldiss" as stated on title page and add notes. Teallach 16:41, 3 April 2022 (EDT)

    The book of Frank Herbert

    Hi, I've accepted your submission, but changed the publisher back to Panther / Granada (for now). I believe it should be either Panther, or Panther / Granada, not just Granada. 'Published by Panther Books 1977' means exactly what it says, hence the reversal :). I've added / Granada as Panther was acquired in 1968 by Granada. Do not hesitate to ask other moderators their opinion if you would disagree. Regards, MagicUnk 07:23, 6 April 2022 (EDT)

    At that date it is tricky to determine. Some entries are "Granada" for that date others "Panther" and a third set "Panther / Granada". I made a note that it has "Granada" on the spine. --Mavmaramis 12:55, 6 April 2022 (EDT)

    The Unteleported Man

    My copy says Australia&New Zealand $2.75
    but it also says Reprinted (Magnum Books) 1979 - do I have a reprint? --Spacecow 14:35, 21 April 2022 (EDT)

    The answer is no - you have the same edition as I do. The other prices in the notes are not correct. They are indeed $2.75 Aus & NZ. Plus the notes don't provide enough publication details either. I'll edit the record to add that and correct the erronious other prices. --Mavmaramis 14:39, 21 April 2022 (EDT)
    Fantastic :) --Spacecow 17:32, 22 April 2022 (EDT)

    Chris Foss: Easter Island pic reused for Serbian anthology?

    Hi, you've got a few Chris Foss artbooks PVed - including the portfolio poster set, which I had at the time, but have long since lost/misplaced. Am I right in thinking that Easter Island aka Visitors from Outer Space: Easter Island is the same image as used on a 1998 Serbian anthology? I'm wary of making the latter a variant given we don't have the actual image on file for the former (due to it being logged as INTERIORART), and I know he has at least one other spaceship over Easter Island picture that it could be confused for. That latter one with a black spaceship is much less familiar to me than the one on the Serbian anthology, so I'd guess it's the Easter Island one, but would definitely prefer to have confirmation. Cheers ErsatzCulture 13:30, 17 May 2022 (EDT)

    Just checked my copy of Foss Poster Portfolio (I don't have a copy of The Chris Foss Portfolio). The image Easter Island is indeed the same image as the Serbian anthology. I've submitted an edit for the varianting --Mavmaramis 14:31, 17 May 2022 (EDT)
    Great, thanks ErsatzCulture 07:01, 18 May 2022 (EDT)

    That Hideous Strength


    Does your front cover display the red 2'- mark? Mine does not. --Spacecow 12:04, 20 May 2022 (EDT)

    Yes it does have the price 2/- in a red circle bottom right front cover. Hope that helps. --Mavmaramis 12:58, 20 May 2022 (EDT)
    Then I am very curious to what is different between our two editions. This is my copyright page [3]. My edition is missing price tag. --Spacecow 15:11, 20 May 2022 (EDT)
    Yes very curious. The price isn't a sticker either but printed on the cover. Perhaps clone the record and note your edition doesn't have the printed price in a red roundel on the cover - or post a message to one of the Community wiki pages. That's all I can suggest. --Mavmaramis 16:36, 20 May 2022 (EDT)

    The Celestial Steam Locomotive

    Hi, I stumbled on this page which shows the original art of The Celestial Steam Locomotive as well as Cat Karina and Gods of the Greataway. The artist nicknames himself Rikkihop and states he's Richard Hopkinson. So let's just ignore the "ian-hopkins" in the url, right? (Already submitted the second, the first got lost, then the site refused further communication). Horzel 11:11, 4 June 2022 (EDT)

    I found your note on Dirk Broer's Talkpage and since those changes hadn't been made I went ahead and made the edits - which are still waiting in my pending queue. Looks like Fang the Gnome is by the same artist but isn't on the website you linked. --Mavmaramis 14:11, 4 June 2022 (EDT)

    The Aliens Among Us

    Cover artist of this is David Jackson, the incomplete signature in the lower right corner is part of the DJ signature visible on La Famille (the backcover credits Jackson). Horzel 16:36, 4 June 2022 (EDT)


    Changed the artist on your PVd Cardography from Leslie Comer to Leslie Newcomer. I believe that was just a typo. Leslie Newcomer is a recognized artist on ISFDB and works for Hypatia (she is related to the publisher, Alan Bard Newcomer).Jim 12:56, 5 June 2022 (EDT)

    You are right. If that was my error I'll hold my hands up to it. --Mavmaramis 13:57, 5 June 2022 (EDT)

    More Rejects That Shouldn't Be

    http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5336123; http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5336124; Even though your note says not to inform you about minor changes, this mod rejected these minor changes anyway, so I'll ask you. Is it OK to add pub. series to one of those records and fix the other record where the word "Series" was left off the pub. series? I mean, it does say Writers of the 21st Century Series on both covers. --Username 19:30, 11 June 2022 (EDT)

    Yes it's perfectly alright --Mavmaramis 23:55, 11 June 2022 (EDT)

    No Direction Home

    Is cover artist of this given as W. F. Phillips, or as W. F. Phillipps? In the first case, it should be varianted to W. F. Phillipps with 2 p's. Thanks! Horzel 18:09, 12 June 2022 (EDT)

    PHILLIPPS --Mavmaramis 00:22, 13 June 2022 (EDT)

    Falcons of Narabedla

    Can you check the final sentence of this publication? I'm trying to establish if it contains the 1957 magazine version or the 1964 expanded version. The final sentence of both versions are in the title notes. Thanks for checking, --Willem 15:04, 15 June 2022 (EDT)

    And while you're at it: please do an estimate of the word count, as it does seem we have at least two versions of Falcons of Narabedla, and both seem to be novellas: in the process, do take discount of the greater plaques of empty space at the beginnings & ends of the chapters. Thanks, Christian Stonecreek 15:09, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
    There is no need to do an estimated word count. The only important question is which version of the text it is. --Willem 15:14, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
    My copy ends "I heard it, drew a deep breath and then put my arm around Cynara, calling to Adric to come and share it with me" thus it';s the expanded version. 150 pages - less 6 which are totally blank and allowing for another 2 for the spare spaces - so 142 pages. 34 lines of text per full page at between 8 and 12 words per line - so say 310 words per page - makes that around 44,000 words. Hope that helps. --Mavmaramis 15:16, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
    Thank you. That makes it definitely the 1964 expanded version. Your word count is even higher than mine. I'll return the publication to the right titlerecord. --Willem 15:23, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
    My word count is probably over estimated given that not all pages are totally filled with text --Mavmaramis 15:25, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
    I had come to an average of about 254 words per page, with an absolute high of 266 words on one page in my sample, and with an overall majority seeming to lie just beneath or around 250 words a page: the reason for this seems to lie in not discounting the empty space and the shorter lines (for example of dialogue and paragraph endings). I think the right way to do it is to actually count the words on representative sample pages (and discount unused space of chapter endings & beginnings). Thus, the word count estimate does lie beneath the threshold of 40,000 words: at 37,772 for the high point page, at 36,608 for the average, and even below that for the 'impressionist' average. Christian Stonecreek 00:59, 16 June 2022 (EDT)

    Spellsinger cover artist credits

    When using a secondary source, you need to state the source in the publication notes, not just in the moderator notes. This is especially true for verified pubs. I have added the source for the cover to the three Spellsinger pubs. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:11, 19 June 2022 (EDT)