User talk:Marc Kupper/Open items

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I don't always have the publication handy to handle a request for additional data or to double-check additions to a publication. These items are parked here to keep my talk page to a reasonable size.

Please add requests/updates to my main talk page.

Sword of Chaos- added cover/story paging

This. [1]. I added the cover and story paging from my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 16:06, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I felt I needed to add this note. "Cover art and frontispiece by Hannah M. G. Shapero. This frontispiece is present and is missing in some later printings. No apparent signature." I have the Seventh printing and it was missing the frontispiece and I so noted that. Thus I thought it important to note that your ver had it in case someone needed to see it. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:06, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks - My copy book is lost in chaos at the moment. --Marc Kupper|talk 04:47, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Shadow of Heaven

Added a couple of notes to [[2]] ~Bill, --Bluesman 19:35, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Earth Abides -- dating question

I have a copy of Earth Abides that sort of matches your verified RTHBDS1971, the notable exception being that my copy's copyright page states:

Printed in the United States of America
May 1971

at the bottom. Above that is the LCCN. It is the $0.95, #M1551 Fawcett Crest book, and it matches the cover image associated with the entry. The SBN appears only on the spine. I see in the notes your copy did not have a date and there was some question of the date's origin.

What do you think? Should I create a new entry, since I seem to have a different printing? Should I change the existing entry to 1971-05-00? --MartyD 22:04, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I pulled my copy, as you suggested I could, and I find that I still totally match Marc's description. A couple of questions. My copy has the copyright page start approximately half way down. Does yours? Where did they place the two lines? Above or below? Do they look like the same type or do they look slightly different? My last page (318 actual count) has a page of ads. They start right side T1550 75¢, M1552 95¢, P1526 $1.25. etc. Does yours match? I checked ABE and one vendor is definitely selling an undated printing M1551. The careful way he states it, makes me positive that he is open to seeing one's with correct dating.
Not to take over, but I think Marc is going to say go ahead and add yours with the date given and noted differences. I think the DB has to assume that what you have is a 'tangible' difference. This will make it easier to compare and keep in mind while checking. A reasonable possibility is that Marc's/mine are printed in Canada, without it being so stated. If you clone from Marc's, I believe it will create no new problems, and if it is later decided to delete or merge the two, the mods have that ability. I have seen Ace printings stating first printing, first edition and they were not, so usually the best thing is to add, note completely and watch the fur fly. You also could ask on the community board for other people to check if they have the same copy, but that is a long shot. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:52, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
I will add my copy with the notes as another pub. My copy's copyright page starts halfway down, too. Title line, "This book contains the complete text..." block-letter sentence, A Fawcett Crest Book... sentence, copyright line, All rights reserved... paragraph, Except for an occasional reference... paragraph, LCCN line, a couple of blank lines, Printed in the United States of America line, May 1971 (this as low as they print the text on each page, on the line above the line they put page numbers on).
My ad page is different. P1599 $1.25, M1600 95¢, P1601 $1.25, etc. In fact, none of your three examples is listed in mine. Curious. I am going to take the ad entries you cite above and add them to the notes of the existing pub and add these examples from mine to the new pub to help the next editor. --MartyD 11:13, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Marty, apologies to you. I am totally blind and stupid. I just checked your line by line and discovered I made an error in checking my copy. I saw "Published by Fawcett World Library (over) 67 West 44th Street, New York, N. Y. 10036". I took the whole as an address but the next line reads "Printed in the United States of American" (over) "May 1971". I feel like a dolt, but I have to wonder if Marc may have done the same. I am amazed that the add page is different as the opposite is the last of the text of the novel. If I read the above correctly you do not have the first two lines. Sorry for the havoc, but if you have blank spaces we still are looking at a copyright page change plus the add page. Makes you wonder when they actually printed it. Apologies, Harry. --Dragoondelight 14:02, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
No need to apologize for anything. I did update the notes on the existing pub with the ad info and added a new pub -- still pending approval, but I'll add a link here to the new one once it's accepted. When I get home tonight (it's ~12:30pm ET where I am), I will reproduce here the entire copyright page and provide more details on the ad page (and see if I can find anything else helpful). May as well, FWIW. Is there someplace we should move this discussion to avoid clutting up Marc's talk page? --MartyD 17:34, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
I think we are in the right place, as Marc is primary and I think he will be fascinated. I am bedazzled that they might reset the 'type' during a printing, as in the last page. Marc will get to this when he can and after he can check his copy. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 21:42, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok, here is a very detailed description of the book I have in hand. In the TOC and subsequent numbering, they count starting with the title page as 1. All text left-justified unless otherwise noted.

1st physical page

"IN ITS NARRATIVE FORCE ... FASCINATION." -- The New York Times (4 lines)
"THE BOOK HAS MORE ... NOVELS." -- The Christian Science Monitor (3 lines)
The FIRST choice of the Science Fiction Book Club
The FIRST choice of the International Fantasy Award
Among George R. Stewart's many works ... his environment. (4 lines)

2nd physical page

(blank)

3rd physical page (title page)

Earth (right-justified, 1/4 way down page)
Abides (right-justified)
by George R. Stewart (centered, just above mid-page)
A FAWCETT CREST BOOK (right-justified, bottom)
Fawcett Publications, Inc., Greenwich Conn. (right-justified)

4th physical page (copyright page)

EARTH ABIDES (1/2 way down page)
THIS BOOK CONTAINS ... HARDCOVER EDITION. (2 lines)
A Fawcett Crest Book reprinted by arrangement with Houghton Mifflin Company. (2 lines)
Copyright 1949 by George R. Stewart
All rights reserved. No part ... from the publisher. (5 lines)
Except for an occasional ... actual occurrence. (4 lines; author's voice)
Library of Congress ... 49-11267
Printed in the United States of America
May 1971 (line above page number line space)

page 318 (unnumbered, 320th and final physical page)

FAWCETT CREST BOOKS (centered, top)
On Top with the Big Bestsellers (centered)
THE AMERICAN ... P1599 $1.25
LOVERS ALL UNTRUE ... M1600 95¢
THE DOOMSDAY BOOK ... P1601 $1.25 (2 lines)
LOSING BATTLES ... P1584 $1.25
... (15 more titles, 17 lines) ...
THE GODFATHER ... Q1388 $1.50
THEM ... P1467 $1.25
EXPENSIVE PEOPLE ... M1408 95¢
FAWCETT WORLD LIBRARY (centered)
Wherever Paperbacks Are Sold (centered)
If your bookseller ... 15¢ ... No Canadian orders.... upon request. (4 lines)

back cover

EARTH (1/4 way down, yellow)
ABIDES --
A NOVEL ... TODAY (4 lines, white)
In this ... human survival. (6 lines)
"EARTH ABIDES is ... never end." (3 lines)
--THE NEW YORKER (right-justified)
"Most worthwhile ... meanings." (2 lines)
--CARL SANDBURG
Fawcett World Library (bottom)

spine (all text rotated 90)

A Fawcett (top, white)
Crest Book
EARTH ABIDES (1/4 way down, yellow)
George R. Stewart (middle, white)
449-01551-095 (bottom, white)

There you have it. A picture's worth a thousand words, but can a thousand words paint a picture? --MartyD 01:26, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I approved the addition before finding this discussion. We can always delete one of the pubs if Marc confirms that they are identical. Ahasuerus 01:42, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
My first mis-match is that I have two lines of address before the "Printed in the United States" on copyright page. On the add page the top is different, and I do not have those items later, but your bottom three are complete matches. My product number line reads top to bottom, T1550, M1552, P1536, P1537, M1538, P1522, M1523, M1450, M1365, M1525, M1478, M1398, P1503, M1504, T1505, M1497, M1482, T1485, Q1388, P1467, M1408. The ad page being different and as I said the opposite page is novel text shows they were capable of changes, which suggests they could do it during the printing cycle. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:08, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
The list on my copy's ad page, top to bottom, is P1599, M1600, P1601, P1584, P1570, M1571, M1563, M1588, M1564, P1562, M1497, Q1556, M1557, P1536, P1522, M1523, M1540, M1365, P1503, Q1388, P1467, M1408. --MartyD 03:01, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I have incorporated the information from the above discussion into a "differences from the other 1971 printing" note on each of the pubs. I describe the copyright address/lack-thereof and provide the above two ad page number lists in the respective printings. At least no one will be able to complain about LACK of details.... :-) --MartyD 18:24, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Collected Stories of Vernor Vinge

Added the month of publication to [this] from the 1st TP edition. Does your HC have a $C price? ~Bill, --Bluesman 02:05, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Sword and Sorceress XI-- reply to note and two problems

Hello, Mark. Take your time, as I transient ver'd this. [3] . Here is your note. "Note to anyone with a copy of this publication. My copy is a very dog-eared ex-library copy with several layers of tape and stickers holding the spine together. I'd like to know what is on the bottom part of the spine and am expecting one of 

   * ISBN - 0-88677-614-7 499 - in one line.
   * ISBN2 - Price “sideways” 0-88677-614-7
   * ISBN3 - Both price and ISBN “sideways” so that they read normally when the book is on a shelf.

It would be great if you can drop me a note as to what's on this publication. Thank you. ~Marc."

Answer. "U.S. (over) $4.99 (over) (line) Can $5.99 (over) (space) 0-88677- (over) 614-7" at bottom spine. ISBN option 3. LOL

Two problems. "Keepsake by Lynn Michals" not Michels (typo). "Sow's Ear by Kathy Ann Trueman" not "The Sow's Ear" though both acknowlegment/copyright and ToC have "the". Great Job, Thsnks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 14:38, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

The October Cuntry

Replaced the image for [this] with a scan from the first printing and removed the note re:second printing cover being the image shown. ~Bill, --Bluesman 15:31, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

The Postman

Added a cover image to [[4]] ~Bill, --Bluesman 22:08, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Hammerfall

Added a cover image to [[5]]--Bluesman 00:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Wave Without a Shore

Added a cover image to [[6]] from the second printing, but all data seems to match. ~Bill, --Bluesman 23:20, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Lavender-Green Magic

I updated your verified pub LVNDRGRNMG1977 to put the ISBN in the ISBN Field, and the SBN in notes (This lets the Amazon / Alibris / Abe books links work properly). Thanks Kevin 18:59, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Amazons!---added note that frontispiece is by Whelan

Morning!. This. [7]. I added frontispiece note and contents. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 12:24, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Ancient My Enemy

Added a cover image to [[8]] and, hopefully, the correct gutter code to the notes. ~Bill, --Bluesman 22:01, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Survival

Correct cover? It better be, as that many prices listed can't have stayed stable for long. I also adjusted the cover artist credit as it IS there in very small print to the right of the prices section on the back cover. I think I mentioned once before that some UK artist credits are so close to the edge that mere spine-wear can obscure them. BLongley 22:27, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Star Guard G-599 -- note

Hi. In re-verifying Star Guard D-527 I paid more attention to the existing notes and saw the question about the Lin Carter essay with the cross-reference to D-599. D-527 does not have it. I updated the note in D-527 to be a statement of fact, and I added note to D-599 confirming both the absence of the essay in D-527 and that D-527 states itself the 2nd printing. --MartyD 02:15, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Renegade by Duchamp

Can you check the credit for cover design of this pub? There are two similar names with one credit each in the db: "Lynne Janson Lampe" and "Lynne Jensen Lampe". Thanks. MHHutchins 05:06, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

The Automated Goliath / The Three Suns of Amara -- cover image

I replaced a broken link with this on your verified TMTDGTSA1962, matching my copy of the same edition. --MartyD 21:08, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

The Big Time / The Mind Spider and Other Stories -- cover image

I added this image to your verified TBTTMS1961 that matches my copy of the same edition. --MartyD 21:58, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

One Against Herculum / Secret of the Lost Race -- cover image

I replaced a broken link with this on your verified NGSNTLSTRC1959, matching my copy of the same edition. --MartyD 23:19, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

The Other Log.....Fogg

Some DAW data on [this] pub. First Canadian printing, still no number line. Currey adds an odd note, most likely about the US edition: "First Printing, March 1973 on copyright page. Also, First Printing [through] Tenth Printing set in ten lines following the dedication on copyright page." Notin the CDN edition. Sort of have an idea what that means, but just passing it along. Cheers! ~Bill, --Bluesman 00:24, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Transformer

Another DAW oddity: [this] pub, a Canadian edition, second printing, states "First Signet Printing, April, 1983". That is not a typo. ~Bill, --Bluesman 03:28, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

The Day Star

Added a cover image and a note to [[9]]--Bluesman 03:17, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Sword and Sorceress II

The cover image for my copy of your verified pub here differs from the one in the pub record. I've uploaded a scan of my copy here, but wanted to double check with you before replacing the image. Thanks. --Rtrace 12:49, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Trouble with Tycho

Finally found a second copy of [[10]] so replaced the old image with a decent one and added some notes. ~Bill, --Bluesman 00:46, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Six-Gun Planet

Howdy, pardner! Added a cover image to [[11]]--Bluesman 01:01, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

The Automated Goliath / The Three Suns of Amara

I replaced the image on your verified TMTDGTSA1962 with a local (wiki hosted) copy. I ordinarily don't replace unbroken images, but had accidentally uploaded this image for a different pub by mistake (the gory details are on my talk page). Thanks.--Rtrace 02:25, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Book of Leiber

[[12]] Another in the series of different covers than artists. All copyright page data would indicate a first printing, yet the cover is from the US 3rd. --Bluesman 01:02, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

LOL - and here's more on that. Your "3rd printing" cover is actually DAW's second USA printing. It was done in either October or November 1976. Amazon says October 19, 1976. The catalog # UY1269 fits into the lineup for November 1976. I don't have a USA catalog for 1976 and and so would go with Amazon's date. Thus both the date and cover artist are wrong for your publication. Note that the Canadian edition may not have come out out on the same date as the USA 3rd but it would have been either late 1976 or some time in 1977. --Marc Kupper|talk 01:35, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Tor Double

Added an image for 1/2 of[[13]], no find on the other half.... added the month as well (usually the TOR had this?) ~Bill, --Bluesman 01:30, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. That one is temporarily (I hope) buried. When I see it I'll do the over side. --Marc Kupper|talk 00:52, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Second Book of Leiber

Scanned in a cover image for [[14]]--Bluesman 01:50, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

The Heritage of Hastur

I added Jack Gaughan as cover artist in this verified pub. He is credited on the copyright page. Willem H. 15:04, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

One Against Herculum/Secret of the Lost Race added notation

Afternoon! This. [15] . I added notation after matching my copy and Tuck to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 20:53, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Crystal Line

Added a new cover image for [[16]], broken link. Adjusted the notes accordingly. Locus1 verifies the date of publication and price so, again, adjusted the notes accordingly. ~Bill, --Bluesman 00:54, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

SourceForge Project

I have created a source forge account under the same log in name 'kpulliam' - Could you please add me to the project? - Thanks - Kevin 17:17, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Singularity Station

Scanned in a new image for [[17]] added the interior art and fleshed out the notes. ~Bill, --Bluesman 00:35, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Prince of Scorpio- map information

Afternoon! This. [18] . I added information to the firs printing which is slightly different than yours. I sent a message to the memebers of Yahoo Group Kregen and got two replies. First is from the editor of Mushroom/Bladud Books which is publishing the series and working to get the German versions into e-book and print.

Harry,

> I assumed it was Ken Bulmer's, but I need confirmation one way or the other.

The maps are based on Ken's originals, but were redrawn by DAW house artists (who may have included Jack Gaughan). The quality of the paper and printing required heavier lines than Ken's originals. Some appear to include errors - we found and corrected a few errors and omissions in the Havilfar map when preparing it for the wiki.

There are scanned copies of Ken's originals in the wiki. For instance:

[19]

[20]

I believe, but could be wrong, that these were provided by ZaPeet or Heyne.

Thanks, Martin

The second is from the owner of the group, ZaPeet is another editor who was trying to get the books not published in Englis into ebook format. He got five, and found it financially impossible for him. Ken Bulmer and he became very tight and the maps came through him in the original and so were secured by Martin Heldson, at Mushroom/Bladud Books.


Lahal,

ZaPeet did indeed provide these maps, obtained from Ken himself!

I treasure them because both Tambu and Bet-Aqsa are shown definitively. Sadly, Ba-Domek is not but we know it is fairly close to both of these two lands, in the Ocean of Doubt.

Seg

I do not know if this clarifies anything, but it shows I and they are still involved in all things Bulmer. Maybe, it will give you a laugh. I am not suggesting a change. I was surprised to find the map in our copies of PoS are actually 'cut outs' of the map in the omnibus. I wish Ken's elderly wife could locate more missing material, but the indifference of the children apparently overrides this. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 20:01, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

The Silver Metal Lover

I added a cover image to your verified pub THSLLLVR0D1982. Thanks. --Rtrace 12:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Heritage of Hastur [2]

Added a cover image and massaged the notes for [[21]] ~Bill, --Bluesman 02:32, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

World Wreckers

Added a cover image to [[22]] --Bluesman 01:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


Candy Cox / Candy Box and the Big Bad (Were)Wolf (P.C. Cast in Mysteria )

Hi Marc, just alerting you to an oddity on P.C. Cast's page relating to one of your verified publications: There is 2 versions of the name of a novella which I presume is the same piece of work. In your verified publication Mysteria it is "Box". On Amazon US Look Inside, the TOC has it as Cox, so I wonder if there's a typo in the Mysteria publication contents records, or whether the heading of the story itself has the "Box". ... clarkmci/--j_clark 08:09, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

ACE Dbl F-161

Added both artists to [this] courtesy ACE Image Library, with appropriate note. ~Bill, --Bluesman 23:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Creating the Kris Darkon pseudonym for Forrest J. Ackerman instead of uncredited

Hello Marc. As Bob Hall is not appearing on my watchlist and you are active, with some limitations due to RL, I need someone versed somewhat in the Perry Rhodan magverse. I have the PR's 119+ and entered them as uncredited, and it devils me. The reality is that Ackerman took a flier with subscriber funds to try and create a viable PR magazine. He failed rather quickly, but he 'dodged' some possible liabilities and responsibilities of an editor in order to hedge himself from financial loss. There are no real name people mentioned in the series during his attempt, except for the actual German author whose story is translated and a few letter comments from fans with no signed pseudonyms responses. There is though, a direct connection with a pseudonym name used in these issues. His Kris Darkon persona continued to be used for commentary in the magazine during both the Ace publication and the non-attributed Master Publications run. He strictly used it in Ace to hype his selling of PR material and events and continued that into Master Publications. My view is that this huckstering pseudonym is a valid connection between the publications and leads directly to Forrest J. Ackerman, even though he refrained from his usual practice of crediting himself, his wife and translators, etc. My proposition is that I change the uncredited to Kris Darkon. Enter the contents of a "Rhofan" subscriber post card and that KD is the only name used in association with the MP run. Thus crediting him/KD and then taking it one step further and making KD a pseudonym of FJA. I hope this seems a rational way of cluing in the db user to the clearly well known relationship. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 21:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Pseudonyms are dangerous in ISFDB at the moment as we can't change or undo them meaning whatever we do needs to be done right the first time. I believe it's pretty we'll established that Ackerman used many pseudonyms or at least someone went to the trouble to create a poster about it.
Agreed. The reason I and DES have a discussion going. I am trying to promote some intermediate stage, apparent to the users, for working the problem over time and through possibly numerous editors. Authors are difficult, editors tend to be worse and artist/others are like blowing bubbles in the wind. In a sense using a pseudonym for FJA is only an attempt to assign the lack of data mischief in the later PR printing to the culprit. Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:47, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
To me, Kris Darkon is more likely Wendayne, Forrest's wife, and as much of a fan of specfict as Forrest was. Forrest was into phonetic pseudonyms and Darkon seems to be a spin on Wahrman which was Wendayne's maiden name.
I totally support that Wendayne was a phenomenal support for FJA. In fact I doubt, he would have done a tenth of what he did without her. His 'whiny' rebuke to STF fans for not supporting his plans and contributing tons of money for him to do his thing was a 'real work of art'. She definitely was his charm. Harry, --Dragoondelight 13:47, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I believe the best we can do is to keep tugging at the strings to see where they lead and documenting the trail. From time to time we may run across a real fact, vs. speculation. ISFDB can help in that it'll document when and where the various pseudonyms were used. For example, Wendayne was mugged in 1989 and I don't think was able to write up to her subsequent death in 1990. Thus Ackernymns used from 1990 on out would be by Forrest. Thus, what I do is to document the connection as best as possible. Reading Series:Perry_Rhodan#Perry_Rhodan_.236_-_The_Secret_of_the_Time_Vault over a year later shows I failed in some aspects in that I related my opinions but did not give more of the background facts that could support or deny that opinion.

PR is messy and Ackerman is more so

I take it as no, but filled in a little below, but no is not a problem as long as it is aired out, especially to someone who can follow up at a later date if new/better information occurs. That is why asked you to sit as a judge on my thoughts. As for your surmises and commentary on PR 6, I found nothing wrong with both the approach and the result. I think in some ways the DB is built for doing what you did and then adding/subtracting lines of inquiry as you go through the material. Unfortunately, I thing PR is especially messy. I found some material from a favorite author in 'Science Fiction Adventures' magazine and will start comparisons with PR in my reading of it. Never was a real magazine fan, but possibly I am developing. LOL. Putting your thoughts on what was happening in PR 6 and other books, you have done are (IMO) essential to developing future understanding of the material. Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:47, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I broke the drifting threads into their own sub-sections as I get confused by all of these indents wafting in and out.
I did not mean an absolute "no" but rather that the ISFDB database should be based on verifiable facts as much as possible. Pseudonyms are a hard one as it's rare that a reliable source such as the author or publisher involved publicity states in unambiguous terms that X is Y. It's worse for ISFDB in that author pseudonyms happen to be the one and only thing we can't undo once they get entered. Thus I like to make sure the fish are all in the barrel before I shoot.
I'm also in no hurry. If I have some evidence of something I'm content to just document it and perhaps 10, 20, or more years from now someone will dig up more evidence.
Finally, ISFDB publication records should be based, as much as possible, on what's stated in a publication. If the editor is uncredited for the Masters PR series then the publication record should say "uncredited". We use the variant title mechanism to link that the title record for "uncredited" to Forrest J Ackerman and ideally, as part of that linkage we would also document the evidence that Ackerman was the editor. --Marc Kupper|talk 22:19, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

note sources

So far in ISFDB we have not been in the habit of consistently documenting the sources for pseudonyms though presumably could do this on the wiki-bibliography page for an author or artist. --Marc Kupper|talk 03:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

post card

I added the post card I received when I secured my copy of PR119 from a vendor in the note field. After acceptance here [23].
I approved the post card addition to 904727 though am wondering at the usefulness of adding that as a note to a title type EDITOR title record. The only way people would find that record and thus see the note is via an advanced search. I thought about this and decided a better place to record research notes about a pseudonym is the author's page and so copied the note to Author:Forrest J. Ackerman#Kris Darkon. I also saw two typoes in the note and corrected them on the assumption they were data entry errors. If these typos exist in the original text then please revise the quote and add comments explaining the typos exist in the original publication. The typos are:
  • "...publisher of the Perry Rhodan series wrrote us to go ahead..." corrected to wrote.
  • "...hours in what int eh may turn out...". I took a guess and corrected this to "...hours in what in the end may turn out..."
I left the original note in the title record too. There's a mild concern about copyright issues which is offset in that we are clearly noting "this is something stated in the book and and thus the copyright for that section of the text belongs with them" plus the entire letter has relevance in this case as a source of reliable, and verifiable, documentation for the history of this part of the Perryverse.
I was confused by your comments. Post card? Please update Author:Forrest J. Ackerman#Kris Darkon to better explain the exact source of what is being quoted. At first I thought you were quoting something out of PR #119 as the title record you updated points to that publication but now it seems that at you received a used copy of PR #119 and with it was a postcard, mailed on on an unknown date to an unknown person but I suspect 1978. It's not clear who the post card was mailed to but I'm guessing people pre-ordered a book, possibly PR #119, and the postcard was sent to them. --Marc Kupper|talk 21:38, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Updated, I hope. Apologies for all errors. Floating cataracts, right eye, unbalancing eye sight. If still unclear will try again. Otherwise, I am comfortable that you have the gist of my commentary and will have to leave further steps, of which I am unsure are needed, to other editors. If understand correctly, the postcard and perceived intentions are now documented and someone at a later date can carry it forward if they wish. Sorry, but I will table this, unless there is a definite problem with the transcription as all wiki communication (mass writing on screen) is now annoying and I do not wish to strain the good eye. I will update only in order to shelve some books. If Bob Hall gets an active period, it could go to him as he has done a heman job on the PR series. Perhaps better tomorrow, though I will start no more long conversations. This is not a snit, in fact it is catching me flatfooted, words from doctors are words until it happens. Sorry, Harry. --Dragoondelight 00:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Thank you Harry - I restructured Author:Forrest J. Ackerman to have separate sections regarding his home address and the Kris Darkon pseudonym. --Marc Kupper|talk 04:04, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

wikipedia link on Master Publications imprint

I also checked the wikipedia and there is no Wendayne Ackerman page, but the Forrest J. Ackerman [24] has a section on Perry Rhodan. The next to last sentence is; "Forry later published translations of German issues #127 through #145 on his own under the Master Publications imprint." So, would that suffice?
Unfortunately, that comment on Wikipedia does not cite a source and so we have no idea if it's speculation on a fan's part or is based on something Forrest stated explicitly. These sorts of things are useful strings to pull to see if we can arrive at the facts and so I would document them as data points on the golden brick road while also acknowledging that they may be leading us in the entirely wrong direction. The postcard you found is an excellent clue that points Kris Darkon as being Forrest J Ackerman. If the post card is from Master Publications then that's even better.
FWIW, while Wikipedia does not have a Wendayne Ackerman page I found this though it's less useful than the Wikipedia article as the page fails to cite sources entirely. --Marc Kupper|talk 21:59, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

summary and notes on "uncredited"

Sorry for the nag, and possibly I did not fully understand your reply. I took it as a no, and a further no will leave me totally requited. LOL. In other words, just trying to find a solution to the 'uncredited' when we know better, but can find little ammuntition to do so. I am not trying to circumvent policy as such, but trying to give the users the tools to understand the why/what of this uncommon publishing situation. Of course, after checking the whole series I would rate Ackerman a D as an editor, because he left many questions and created round robin problems to deal with. LOL Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:47, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
No problem at all. The core thing to keep in mind is that we are trying to keep ISFDB, and particularly publication records, based on verifiable facts. 99% of the time the process is just a mechanical entering and double checking of author and artist credits, publisher names, etc. We try to veer as little as possible into speculative territory when it comes to what we enter into the database.
You would think that as a fan Ackerman would have been interested in organizing and tidying things up. The good news is that he was popular enough that people did save miscelania such as postcards, books, and other material he contributed too.
A solution to "uncredited" is to document what you know and to set up the variant titles based on that. Later, someone may disagree with your conclusions, will add evidence that supports their position, and would change the variant titles. Hopefully the pseudonym editor comes on line soon and we'll be able to change those as easily as the variant titles. I thought the code was already done but apparently it was never released. --Marc Kupper|talk 22:31, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Planet of Judgment

Scanned in a cover image for [this] and added notes. ~Bill, --Bluesman 18:52, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Template:BibHeader

It seems that in {{BibHeader}} and {{AuthorHeader}} we have created tow near duplicate templates -- at least two templates intended for the same purpose. I suggest that we merge the desired functionality into one of them, and make the outer a redirect. I note that {{BibHeader}} does not support the altName mechanism, and thus cannot be used on any disambiguated author names like Colin_Harvey_(1971-) or D._F._Jones_(US). -DES Talk 13:08, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I saw that too the other day and made a note to merge them but was undecided if Author or Bib is better as a prefix. FWIW, I have been using the name AuthorHeader recently simply as I remember its name based on the namespace name and not out of preference for the argument support or the contents of the header box.
I just looked at the two and feel the header and logic for "AuthorHeader" is better. While AuthorHeader's help is more complete I like the wording of the BibHeader help. The placement of the author name in AuthorHeader is disconcerting.
Something that seems consistent would be:
  • {{BioHeader}} on [[Bio:Name]] pages.
  • {{AuthorHeader}} on [[Author:Name]] pages.
  • {{PublisherHeader}} on [[Publisher:Name]] pages.
  • {{PubHeader}} on [[Publication:Tag]] pages. Add a redirect for {{PublicationHeader}}?
  • Continuing this we would add {{SeriesHeader}} for [[Series:Tag/record]] pages. Maybe that's missing as at present there's no cgi to map a series name to record number via the URL.
I've sometimes found myself on one of the namespace pages and wondering which was the correct header for that page. I'd try a few names, getting red links, give up, put anything there knowing you'll come along in a minute and fix it. :-) It was particularly frustrating recently as the template I wanted had not been included in Category:Header Templates...
I'm all for then adding redirects for the permutations as some people remember the names by function such as {{BiographyHeader}}, {{BibliographyHeader}}, {{BibliographicCommentsHeader}}, plus versions with the space in the name such as {{Author Header}}. If we ever get better conditional support then a plain {{Header}} can do the trick.
Feel free to merge away. --Marc Kupper|talk 20:16, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
I have implemented the old-style conditionals with {{Qif}}, {{ifdef}}, and {{ifndef}}, it is maore akward to code than the built-in ParserFunctions-based :If conditions, and it can cause performance problems on huge wikis like wikipedia, but it does work. Look at the coding of {[tl|AuthorHeader}} if you want to see it in action. I am dubious about a theoretical {{Header}} however, because the Publisher: Namespace, at least, requres an argument for {{PublisherHeader}}, and there are alternates for "verified" publisher and Imprints that can't be detected from the namespace alone. Still it is a thought. I'll see about merging the existing author templates, and creating some redirects. -DES Talk 20:31, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Merge done, and all the redirects you suggested have been created. However I did not create the multi-function {{header}}, nor {{SeriesHeader}}, the latter because the linking template {{Series}}, at least as currently implemented, requires a record number. I'll have to think about that one. -DES Talk 21:20, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Thank you David. It turns out that linking to series by name works. However, I don't understand the argument parsing logic well enough to clone AuthorHeader into SeriesHeader and possibly editing {{series}} to support {{series|Series Name}} like how {{a}} works. --Marc Kupper|talk 22:03, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Since series get renamed rather more often than authors, i think it would be better to use an ID numbers if possible. But perhaps better support for name links can be provided in those templates. -DES Talk 23:23, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Template:Series

Template:Series looks pretty good, but if you are going to support a parameter altname as well as altName, it must be supported at each use. I have made the needed change. -DES Talk 23:46, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Please do not remove altName support unless you are willing to require (and document the requirement) that users link by record number to any series with a special character in the name. There are currently 282 series with an "(" in their title, and 303 with a single quote. Other unsupported characters probably occur also. -DES Talk 00:53, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
I have fixed Template:Series to support {{Series|id=123}}

Parameters for SeriesHeader‎ and PubSeriesHeader‎

Please note that {{SeriesHeader}}‎ and {{PubSeriesHeader‎}}, as currently coded, do not support unnamed parameters -- the name and id parameters must be explicitly specified with "name=" and "id=". this is so that the conditional code can test for the presence or absence of the id parameter.

Yep, I was just thinking about that and about how many permutations I want to support. At minimum I see
  • {{SeriesHeader}} will link using {{Series|{{PAGENAME}}}}
  • {{SeriesHeader|id=record}} will use {{Series|id=record|name={{PAGENAME}}}}
Other combinations are possible and I'm thinking if Altname support is not needed given we have ID and NAME. Something that may simplify the logic is to always call Series with ID and NAME as it'll work just fine if you happen to call it with a name in the ID field. Thank you for the altName/altname fix. I'd stolen that from {{a}} which I see you just fixed and wondered how it could work...
I forgot to sign but also the brain is fried for now. I'll deal with updating SeriesHeader later unless you want to tackle it. I'm thinking these are possible.
  1. {{SeriesHeader}} will use {{Series|{{PAGENAME}}}}
  2. {{SeriesHeader|something}} will use {{Series|something}}
  3. {{SeriesHeader|id=record}} will use {{Series|id=record|name={{PAGENAME}}}}
  4. {{SeriesHeader|id=record|something}} will use {{Series|id=record|name=something}}
  5. {{SeriesHeader|id=record|name=something}} will use {{Series|id=record|name=something}}
I need to think about if AltName as a SeriesHeader argument is needed but think not and if we want to support NAME with no ID. --Marc Kupper|talk 00:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
altName support is needed, if we are to link by name, here are a few examples:
  • Andromeda (anthologies)
  • Angel (Kilworth)
  • Animals in the Wild (childrens non-genre)
  • Anthologys (non-genre)
  • Arthurian sequence (Wein)
  • Assiti Shards (1632)
  • Assiti Shards (Other)
  • Astounding / Analog (1937-1971)
  • Author, Author! (Future Science Fiction)
  • Author, Author! (Science Fiction Stories)
Anchorencode will not work correctly on any name with a parenthesis or a single quote included, and is not guaranteed safe on any character outside A-Z, a-z, and 0-9
Or I suppose we could require the use of a record number for such series titles.
If you want to retain the unlinked option and the conditional code, then I don't think this one can default to the pagename (for {{PubSeriesHeader}} that option is essential, as there often isn't an actual db series record to link to). That option can be dispensed with, i suppose, in which case one could link to ID, which if unspecified defaults to name, which if unspecified defaults to the first parameter, which if unspecified defaults to PAGENAME ({{{id|{{{name|{{{1|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}}}}}) plus conditionals for altName similar to those in {{AuthorHeader}}. -DES Talk 00:44, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
That makes sense. I was doing some testing of the various permutations and for {{Series|id=16601}} which is a rather common current usage. It linked to record 16601 but the name "altname" rather than the expected "16601." I thought about fixing that by putting altname in the outer wrapper but need to think about the various permuations of possible ways to call the thing that make sense. The only ones we really care about, and don't want to break, are
  1. {{Series|16601}} - 16601 should show as 16601 - This usage is common.
  2. {{Series|23113|Fox}} - Fox should show as Fox - this usage is common.
  3. {{Series|2402|name=Anthi}} - Anthi should show as Anthi - this usage is not as common but is in use.
  4. {{Series|Blade_Double}} - Blade_Double should show as Blade_Double - this usage is rare but is in use and would be the same as the first usage.
  5. {{Series|id=2402|name=Anthi}} - Anthi should show as Anthi - this usage is rare but is generated by Template:PubSeriesHeader.
It looks like only case #2 is broken at the moment. --Marc Kupper|talk 01:25, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Case 2 fixed. Good to specify the cases. -DES Talk 01:42, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Don't forget the cases:
Thank you on the #2 fix - Here's what I'm thinking of for generating the URL and name parts of our link. Does this make sense?
  • URL part - altname overrides altName overrides id overrides {{{1}}}
  • name part - altname overrides altName overrides name overrides id overides {{{2}}} overides {{{1}}}
Dinner - be back in a while. --Marc Kupper|talk 01:47, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
What I have now is
  • URL: altName overrides altname overrides id overrides {{{1}}} overrides name
  • Display text: name overrides {{{2}}} overrides {{{1}}} overrides id overrides altName overrides altname
the order of altName and altname is irrelevant, because they should never be specified together. name must be in the URL sequence to support the case where name is the only paramater. 2 and 1 must override id in the name parameter to handle cases 2 & 3 above correctly. I think all is now correct. -DES Talk 02:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Perfect. I thought about the current logic vs. what I had proposed above and the current logic will do well and seems intuitive enough. --Marc Kupper|talk 06:31, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Template:BC

I see you recently created Template:BC. It seems to me that this largely duplicates {{PubHeader}} although it is not in a header style. Should it be converted to a redirect to {{PubHeader}}, or should it be retained for cases where a non-header style is desired, and documented as an alternative on the PubHeader doc page, and on Help:List of ISFDB Templates? -DES Talk 14:44, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I changed the one publication that used {{BC}} to use {{PubHeader}} and have deleted BC. At the time I added BC the PubHeader template did not exist. I was also thinking more along the lines of having the template name match the function of the page (Publication Bibliographic Comments), wanted the name to be short, and also wanted the name to be easy to remember. I like the new XxxHeader form much better as it seems it's much more likely people will remember the names plus with the alias/redirects they can guess at a reasonable name and even if they get the wrong header then can they quickly find the right one via the category.
Can we do conditional logic based on if someone viewing a page is logged into the wiki? As the headers are new something that may encourage their use is to add a boilerplate "Please see header templates for more information about this header" to the end of each of the header templates (template the boilerplate). The goal is to both make people aware of the templates and also to make it easy to find them. Only people that are logged in would need to see this. --Marc Kupper|talk 06:24, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
If there is a way for templates to display differently based on whether the viewer is logged in I don't know of it. It would be possible to put some text into a special CSS class that would display differently depending on a user's individual style sheets, but that wouldn't make a difference unless we got all regular users to edit their personal monobook.css files. We can add the boilerplate if you like, but everyone will see it. It is apparently also possible to change the DB code so that when someone goes to a wiki page via one of the db links, and that page doesn't yet exist, it will be preloaded with the proper header template. A feature request for this is already on file, and it would help i think. -DES Talk 12:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Note that some of the headers, such as {{BioHeader}} have been around for months. -DES Talk 12:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
It would have been possible to make BC into another alias for PubHeader, and that could still be done if you wish -- redirects are cheap. -DES Talk 12:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
On further research i found this mediawiki help page It shows how to create a special CSS class that has different properties for logged-in and not-logged-i users, at the cost of editing a site-level file to create the style. I think any admin can do this. Then a span tag using the named style could have a "no-display" setting if the user was not-logged in, but display normally for logged-in users. I will test to see if this can be made to work. -DES Talk 14:23, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for the hunt. In terms of BC - I did not like adding yet another two letter template to the list of things people would need to remember plus at the time I added that I was thinking we need to sit back a moment and come up with a consistent naming system as both author and publication records can link to bibliographic comments pages.
An alternative for detecting logged in users would be extension variables and adding something such as {{LOGGEDIN}} --Marc Kupper|talk 14:58, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I had already seen at the magic words page that custom variables could be created. But that would require someone with write access to the live wiki config files (Al or Ahas, I think that means in practice) to make the change. I was hoping to avoid that. -DES Talk 15:13, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
It looks as if the new-style solution would still have to be done in the php file for each skin, not the css file, and so would require someone with site-level access. How horrid would it be to add the bolierplate in a normal way, so everyone could see it? -DES Talk 16:13, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I have created Help:Header Templates, which might be linked to in your suggested boilerplate in each header. -DES Talk 19:28, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I knew it would take either Al or Ahasuerus to do the style solution which is why I suggested magic words which would seem to be more intuitive to someone looking at one of the header templates. It's probably not that huge of a deal of the message is visible to everyone as few non-logged in people are likely to even be looking at the comments pages. If we template it then it'll be easy to remove the message should it become an issue.
I moved the new help file to Help:Header templates (lower case "t" for the second word) to make the name consistent with other help page names. It turns out nearly existing links are a mix of Help:Header templates and Help:Header Templates. --Marc Kupper|talk 20:17, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Creating a new magic word would also, i think, require either Al or Ahasuerus to edit several system files. I will implement the boilerplate. -DES Talk 20:41, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Bolierplate added. -DES Talk 21:33, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

River of Eternity

I added the Author's Introduction to the contents of this verified pub. I try to be complete. Thanks Willem H. 20:40, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Also added some more notes after this Willem H. 20:18, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Conditionals

These are some notes to myself to play with some of the conditionals

{{!}} Used to encode "|" within template and parser function parameters such as to generate tables.
{{Ifdef}} {{Ifdef|value|result}} - if value is not empty then return result.
{{Ifndef}} {{Ifndef|value|result}} - if value is empty then return result.
{{Qif}} {{Qif|test=value|then=result1|else=result2}} - if value is not empty then return result1 otherwise return result2. The else part is optional.
{{Switch}} Switch statement.
{{Booleq}} {{Booleq|value1|value2}} - If value1 is the same as value2 then return 1 otherwise return nothing.

--Marc Kupper|talk 14:59, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

FYI, there are others available on Wikipedia that I didn't copy here, and i haven't tested all of the above. Some of them are in use, check what-links-here for each to see where. -DES Talk 15:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Soviet SF

Mark, you left a note with the entry about the 1962 Collier edition of Asimov's SOVIET SCIENCE FICTION [25] about a later printing. I added page numbers to this entry and a note about a different printing with different colors used on the cover. Is this the 1964 printing to which you refer?Don Erikson 21:31, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Science Fiction Century

I have a copy of Science Fiction Century which does not have a price printed on it, that otherwise appears to match your verified copy. This might be the answer to what a 'co-publication' means, as the copyright page has a full numberline, etc. If your dust jacket has a price in the usual location then I have a BOMC/BCE copy. Could you check when next you get a chance? - Thanks Kevin 01:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I'd need to do some digging to get that one in my hands but am pretty sure the price is on the front flap otherwise I would have added a note explaining where I found it. I see that has an Amazon Look Inside which shows the retail edition with the price on the flap and so I added a note to the verified publication record about this. --Marc Kupper|talk 01:22, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Good enough for me... confirms that I've got a hardcover BOMC edition that isn't listed at Locus. Based on the Co-Publication line, I'm gonna date it at the same time as the trade HC with a note. Thanks! Kevin 03:27, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Mildred Clingerman and agents

I have frequently seen on copyright pages notices of the form "Written by X; Reprinted by permission of Y" where it was clear that Y was an agent, rahte than that X was a pesud of Y. In particular when Y was "Scott Meredith" or "Pohl". I think it is unsafe to conclude merely from such a notice that a pesud relationship has been disclosed. -DES Talk 14:47, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

True and so I rewrote the Clingerman note. I need to get back to that particular project and to clean up the remaining pages but am concentrating on dealing with some easier to deal with books for a while. That anthology has fifty stories and more than half of them turn out to have X and Y stuff.
BTW - do you know of any decent, and free, OCR software? More specifically, something that'll work on Windows 2000 but I can speak XP if needed. To speed up dealing with Fifty Short Stories I took photos of the acknowledgment pages and it'd be great if I could OCR the pages and then the project, after wikifying, is to verify that the OCR was accurate. --Marc Kupper|talk 00:00, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I have some OCR software that I bought used. Not free, but low-cost, adn i can make a copy of the installation disk if you want. Since the manufaturer no longer sells this version, and you wouldn't be a customer for a new, full-price version anyway, I see no harm in such a technical copyright violation. I got it for use on Project Gutenbeg/Distributed proofreaders, adn it is good enough for both text and illos there. -DES Talk 00:17, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Ancient My Enemy [2]

Added notes to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 16:50, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

StarMother by Van Scyoc

I've updated your verified copy of this title, adding the price and month of publication, based on info from the SFBC announcement flyer. MHHutchins 23:54, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

The Worlds of Science Fiction -- deleted a REM title

Morning!. This. [26]. I second verified you and did a Tuck confirmation also. I submitted a del for the 'rem' Heinlein title you corrected. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:39, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Alpha Two

Scanned in an image and added some notes for [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 02:37, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Shatter Zone

Added wrap around cover art to Shatter Zone. Also wondering about the publisher credit.. .seems to me it should be 'Gold Eagle / Worldwide' or something similar. Thoughts? - Thanks Kevin 01:33, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

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