User talk:Lokal_Profil

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Welcome!

Hello, Lokal Profil, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! MagicUnk 08:02, 9 September 2020 (EDT)

Alternativ Luna

Hello. I've accepted your submission, but had to make a few changes:

  • I've updated the author to Carl Henner, as that's the author's name as recorded on the publication.
  • Moved the URL from the notes to the web page field, and updated the notes accordingly.
  • I've also updated the publisher from Lindqvists to Llindqvist to be in line with the other publications in the series that are already in the DB, but not sure if it should't be the other way around. As you've submitted the publication, could you enlighten me?

Have a look, and let me know if you like it this way. You can respond to this message by clicking the edit at the far right of the title of this message, and do indent your reply with one or more colons ':'.

Hope you'll like it here and decide to contribute. Again, Welcome! Regards, MagicUnk 08:41, 9 September 2020 (EDT)

Thanks! I spotted my mistake with using the real name rather than the pseudonym after I submitted the edit. But I didn't see any way of either amending my submission or leaving an additional note for the reviewers.
Thanks for the clarification of the web page field, I was unsure if the library reference fitted there. Will keep it in mind for next time.
I submitted a change to the publishers page. In short it has been referred to with either name but "Lindqvists förlag" or possibly "Lindqvists" for short is probably the more common (förlag just means publisher). /Lokal Profil 17:39, 9 September 2020 (EDT)

Rymdens härskare

Hello again! I have accepted your submission, but had to make the following changes:

  • Author initials are always with a space in between, so C.L. Moore should have been C. L. Moore
  • Lindqvists --> Lindqvist, to be in line with publisher that already existed in the DB - as above, let me know if this is incorrect (and why :)
  • Moved the URL to the web pages field, updated the notes accordingly,
  • Since we do not have permission to link to the website that hosts the image, I've saved the image, resized it to 600 px max (as that's the maximum allowed height), and uploaded that to the ISFDB.

The result is here.
You still have to variant the Swedish title to the English original. Give it a try! If you would have further questions, do not hesitate to ask by replying to this message (the edit button at the far right of the message title), or over at the help desk. Hope you'll like it here and continue to contribute. We sure can use additional editors that can expand our database, especially with non-english titles! Regards, MagicUnk 08:58, 9 September 2020 (EDT)

Oh, and you can use the {{tr|translator name}} template. This will be substituted by 'Translated by translator name'. Using this template in the note of the title record prepares the data for when we have a dedicated translator field. Regards, MagicUnk 11:28, 9 September 2020 (EDT)

Thanks again. Just to check. There is no way to automatically create/check the author link on creation? I.e. it is simply a text field which gets matched later on?
Re image. Thanks Only saw now that I could have uploaded ot to the wiki then linked it (I had assumed uploading was disabled). Is the 600px a fair use restriction? I.e. do I need to scale it down before uploading it here or can the DB use the 600px thumbnail from the wiki?
Thanks for the note about the tr-template. I went ahead and updated Template:PublicationFields:Author qith that info. /Lokal_Profil 17:54, 9 September 2020 (EDT)
Made an attempt of making the Swedish version a variant of the English original. Spotted that the types mismatch. My guess is that the Swesish version has been mislabeled a Novel by the library, but without the book its hard to say. /Lokal_Profil 18:03, 9 September 2020 (EDT)
About type mismatches: In such cases we go by the original's type, change the type of the translation to match the original and add notes into the translation that it is presented differently.
And yes for the author name - it is just a string until it is saved (then it either connects to an existing author name or creates a new record if none exists).
Uploading vs linking of images - in a way we prefer uploads when available -- less likely to lose an image when a site goes down. We have a limit on the size (both in MB and in "longest side in pixels" because of the library we are using (and somewhat because of space issues for the first). See [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:How_to_upload_images_to_the_ISFDB_wiki for details). If the image's longest side is 600 px or less, you are ok. If it is bigger, you will get a warning and while a bit bigger will upload, you will hit some interesting side effects so if it is bigger, scale it down before uploading.
Welcome again and please do not hesitate to ask any questions you may have :) Nice to see another international editor joining! Annie 20:22, 9 September 2020 (EDT)
Thanks. Tried my hand on image uploading and changes the type to collection. Also added the last book in the publisher series.
I spotted one issue though to my knowledge each book in that series was published as both hc and tp. The series is currently a combination of these. Not aure how to best approach that. /Lokal_Profil 15:45, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
The generally accepted way is to have both the tp and hc editions of each work added to the series. No need to split into two pub series or some such. MagicUnk 16:07, 12 September 2020 (EDT)

Jules Verne-magasinet 368

I approved your submission of Jules Verne-magasinet 368, but you need to change the title to include the date, and not include the issue number. Put the issue number in the notes. And of course, tie the stories to those in other languages. Bob 15:02, 17 August 2021 (EDT)

Thanks. Should the title include the date even if it is most commonly referred to by the number? Is there a particular format for the date which is to be preferred? (it's April 1978) /Lokal_Profil 18:53, 17 August 2021 (EDT)
Another question. The magazine includes a review article where multiple works are reviewed. I'm unsure how to enter that though as a) it's one article which reviews multiple titles, b) the title of the article is pretty generic (its a New in Sci-Fi article) so I expect the naming to be identical in multiple issues. /Lokal_Profil 03:43, 18 August 2021 (EDT)
Does the review article have distinct sections identifying each reviewed work? If not, I don't think it'd be worthwhile to enter as one or more REVIEW record(s). Just enter it as an essay with the magazine title as disambiguator. So ' New in Sci-Fi (Jules Verne-magasinet, #368) ', for example. Added benefit: you can add a series title to the essay titles too to group them all together. MagicUnk 06:48, 18 August 2021 (EDT)
Thanks MagicUnk. It's not split into separate sections but often a paragraph for two titles where they get reviewed and contrasted with each other (a few larger works get multiple paragraphs). I'll go for the Essay solution and try to link them in them in the notes. With regard to the previous question. Should the format then be Jules Verne-magasinet, April 1978 despite the cover not mentioning the date (it's mentioned on the title page after the issue number). /Lokal_Profil 07:20, 18 August 2021 (EDT)
Concerning the issue title; yes, exactly - and do make a note the publication date is mentioned on the title page so it's clear for everyone where that came from. Regards, MagicUnk 09:35, 18 August 2021 (EDT)

currency symbol

Hello! I approved some of your submissions and noticed how you enter the price. I would like to point out that the ISFDB policy states, that the currency symbol preced the price with a space between them. Look here Template:PublicationFields:Price. Regards Rudolf Rudam 13:51, 22 August 2021 (EDT)

Thanks. I'd missed the detail about the order. In general the issue is that fully following that instruction one would write "kr 10" instead of "10 SEK" since "kr" is the common currency symbol. The problem with that is that "kr" doesn't uniquely identify the Swedish currency. /Lokal_Profil 16:32, 22 August 2021 (EDT)
I see your point. One option could be to put a capital S in front of the kr to distinguish them for example from the danish ones. Regards Rudolf Rudam 07:28, 23 August 2021 (EDT)
while that might be one of the official currency abbreviations uts probably more confusing than using SEK. Looking around and doing a few tentative searches I get slightly more recoreds already using SEK
so going with SEK X probably makes the most sense. Is there a process (and is it worth it) to get that guideline added to the price help screen (similar to e.g. italian lira)? If its added then I can clean up whats there. /Lokal_Profil 02:10, 24 August 2021 (EDT)
Actually, it is uncommon to use the ISO code (SEK) as the currency sign, because symbols are generally used. While researching, I discovered that almost all Danish titles have the symbol Kr, even though the official symbol is kr. Therefore it would make sense to distinguish the swedish and danish symbols, like for example the French and the Belgian franc and specifies them as "skr" and "dkr".
What do you think? Naturally I would help to change the symbols. You or I would present the result of our discussion in the community portal and ask if someone has an objection that the result be included in the Template:PublicationFields:Price. Regards Rudolf Rudam 05:46, 26 August 2021 (EDT)
Ok. I'll buy that argument for "skr". Note that we would also have to change any Norwegian hits to "nkr". Danish currency would have to be "dkr." since their currency symbol technically includes the ".". /Lokal_Profil 06:15, 26 August 2021 (EDT)
Good catch. I hadn't considered the Norwegian currency. I actually found some Norwegian publications with the currency "nkr". If you don't mind I will introduce the proposal on the community portal. Regards Rudolf Rudam 10:46, 26 August 2021 (EDT)
Based on the approval in the community portal Currency_kroner , I'll add the agreed abbreviations in the template and will start converting the Norwegian and Danish currencies.. Regards Rudolf Rudam 04:51, 29 August 2021 (EDT)
Hello! If you don't mind, I'll help you convert the currency, since I'm done with Norway and Denmark. Regards Rudolf Rudam 12:04, 30 August 2021 (EDT)
Thanks. Was limited to editing from my phone and with no quick way of seeing if a publication had pending changes it was hard to keep track of what I'd updated and what was left. /Lokal_Profil 13:38, 30 August 2021 (EDT)

Chapbook

Hello again! You wanted to make variations of two chapbooks. Alas, I had to reject that, because we do not make variations of the chapbook title itself but only of its content title. Regards Rudolf Rudam 15:27, 22 August 2021 (EDT)

Thanks. I didn't know that about variations not being done to chapbooks. While researching on how to package the publication in question I came across the list of chapbooks at Robert A. Heinlein where two of them already had variants (one a translation and one an alternative name) so I assumed that was the pattern to keep them all tied together (thus also reducing the clutter). The help pages of AddVariant and MakeVariant doesn't mention special rules for chapbooks either. /Lokal_Profil 16:52, 22 August 2021 (EDT)
Actually I see the same thing for 1021726 which is what I would have wanted to variant 2901779 against./Lokal_Profil 17:03, 22 August 2021 (EDT)
Rudolf's statement seems to be wrong: the only exemption for titles of CHAPBOOKs I know of is that they aren't put into a series. Please re-submit your varianting proposal, I'll variant the Tolkien CHAPBOOK title (whose parent already has variants). Christian Stonecreek 05:52, 23 August 2021 (EDT)
Thanks, resubmitted. /Lokal_Profil 07:02, 23 August 2021 (EDT)
Sorry my fault, I guess i must have overlooked it in the abundance of our guidelines. Rudolf Rudam 07:48, 23 August 2021 (EDT)
No worries :) /Lokal_Profil 02:10, 24 August 2021 (EDT)
While on the topic of difficult variants I was also unsure if a split and translated anthology should have both of its parts be made variants to the original anthology or if they should be made variants of a title in the original language which is in itself a variant of the original i.e. "Swedish title (part 1)"->"English title" vs "Swedish title (part 1)"->"English title (part 1)"->"English title". The latter creates one more title but allows the translation to be distinguished from the partition and multiple translations of a part to all be connected. It also makes things a lot clearer when (as in this case) the two Swedish parts use titles which does not make it clear which order they are in (or that it is in fact a split of the work). /Lokal_Profil 16:52, 22 August 2021 (EDT)
Yes, please variant all parts of a split anthology to the parent title (like was done here. Christian Stonecreek 05:52, 23 August 2021 (EDT)
As it was already said, it is feasible. Rudolf Rudam 07:48, 23 August 2021 (EDT)
And just discovered you cannot make a variant of a variant, so that answers that question. COuld you then please delete 2903103 and 2903114? THanks and sorry for the confusion. /Lokal_Profil 18:21, 22 August 2021 (EDT)
Will do it and as you have seen a confusion can happen to anyone. Regards Rudolf Rudam 07:48, 23 August 2021 (EDT)
Thanks /Lokal_Profil 02:10, 24 August 2021 (EDT)

Translator credits

Hello, I've approved your submission, but noticed that translator was missing from the title record Notes field. As a reminder, don't forget to always add {{tr|translator's name}} (when known) to the title record Notes. Also, for ANTHOLOGY or COLLECTION, you'll have to go back in and add the translator credit to each individual Contents title record as well. Regards, MagicUnk 14:39, 27 August 2021 (EDT)

Thanks for pointing it out. Looks like I'd missed both adding the translator and making the anthology as a whole a title variant. /Lokal_Profil 18:02, 27 August 2021 (EDT)
By the way, you still have to variant each individual title record. Thought I'd mention it in case you'd forgot :) MagicUnk 13:37, 31 August 2021 (EDT)
They are all in the pending queue since yesterday. I miss a functionality wherby you could see pending changes on a per-record basis. /Lokal_Profil 00:41, 1 September 2021 (EDT)

Question on title series naming

Hello. Just a quick question that came up when looking at Olof Möller's biblio page: is the series title "Jaktrymdskepp X12" (and "Futura 3000" for that matter) really a title series? In other words, do these works belong together contents wise? (eg stories or novels in the same world) Or rather, is this a publisher series, ie the publisher grouped all of these works that are otherwise unrelated and/or are never intended to belong together? If it is the latter, the publications (and title) records will need an update to rectify this. Can you clarify? Thanks! MagicUnk 09:22, 8 September 2021 (EDT)

Hi. "Jaktrymdskepp X12" is definitely a title series. The stories all follow the same spaceship (from which the series takes its name) and their adventures. I actually had the pre-existing publisher series replaced by the title series. While I only have the first book in the Futura 3000 series it contains an excerpt from the next book (which I need to add to the contents) which makes it clear that the same character appears in that on, so that to should be a title series. /Lokal_Profil 17:48, 8 September 2021 (EDT)
Thanks for the clarification! MagicUnk 11:29, 9 September 2021 (EDT)

Magazines naming

We have somewhat different rules when naming magazines:

  • The format for a single issue is "Magazine name, date". The issue number goes into the notes only
  • If no date is available and/or foundable, then the issue number goes into the title.

I fixed this one based on your lead from the title record (which I also fixed after approving). Let me know if you have any questions. Although, considering that this is a Swedish magazine, September probably should be in the local language :) Annie 20:03, 8 September 2021 (EDT)

Thanks. It's been highlighted to me before but since its a bit counterintuitive to me (when the month is not part of the name or printed on the cover it didn't stick. Will try to be better at remembering it going forwards.
September is the same in Swedish :) one would however normally write it lowercase... on the other hand the comma can effectively be considered a terminator in yhis case so titlecase shouldn't be an issue. Let me know if you want me to change this and other Swedish magazines to only use lowercase. /Lokal_Profil 05:41, 9 September 2021 (EDT)
Well, we do follow local language capitalization so if those won’t be capitalized in Swedish, they should not be capitalized here either. As my knowledge of Swedish is just enough to parse a bibliography, you’d know better than me what applies. Just add moderator notes so the handling moderator knows what you are doing and why. :) Annie 06:08, 9 September 2021 (EDT)
Thanks. All updated. There were sadly very few to update. /Lokal_Profil 17:15, 9 September 2021 (EDT)
Look at it as an opportunity for your next project :) Annie 18:18, 9 September 2021 (EDT)
True. Since I have you on the line... What's the easiest way of adding a second issue to a year of a magazine? Since it doesn't have an Add Publication link and New magazine requires all the title information to be entered again. /Lokal_Profil 12:42, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
New Magazine. :) You just enter the title again. Once approved, the title record is adjusted and merged if we have another one from the same year and the same editors. Magazines can be a pain sometimes. Annie 13:33, 10 September 2021 (EDT)

Swedish names

A few things when updating Swedish authors:

  • If they have any weird letters in their names such as å, we need a transliteration :) It has to do with how the DB is setup (otherwise search won't find them if someone looks with a straight a)
  • Legal names are always in the format "Last, First Middles"
  • "Directory Entry" should always contain only only English letters "A" through "z", numbers 0-9 and punctuation.

I fixed it here. If any of the transliterations can be improved, please go ahead with adding a second one or updating this one. Annie 20:10, 8 September 2021 (EDT)

Thanks! In my mind I always se å,ä,ö as part of the extended latin script so didn't consider that transliteration would apply. I fixed Möllerström and will keep an eye out for these in the future. /Lokal_Profil 05:37, 9 September 2021 (EDT)
I have definitely not been doing transliteration of the Swedish characters for title and publication names... /Lokal_Profil 05:44, 9 September 2021 (EDT)
Not all the extended characters need them. The easiest way to check is to search for the title/name with and without the special characters. If the two searches find the book, you add good. If they don’t - it needs transliteration. Names are special because of the directory name which can never has one of those. And we have a report for these - so if you miss them, someone will catch and fix them. Annie 06:05, 9 September 2021 (EDT)

Logan's Run

Hi. I have your submission on hold for a moment as I'm wondering what the difference with this 1st printing publication exactly is (apart from the month May, which could be a leftover from cloning the 1976-05-00 Bantam Books edition)? Also, you didn't mention source of your data. As it stands, I'd say edit the existing record and assume it's the first printing of the 1976 edition that you are entering. Regards, MagicUnk 13:51, 10 September 2021 (EDT)

Different ISBNs. There may be two reprints in 1976 with different ISBNs and technically we want both if that's the case. It can be a mistake in the older record but unless we are sure, I would not destroy it by changing the ISBN there. Annie 14:22, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
The source is the physical book (looks like I forgot to tick that box when cloning). Yes the ISBNs differ. Considering the movie was released june 1976 I wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple releases. /Lokal_Profil 17:20, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
Ah, right - missed this obvious difference somehow... sorry about that. Approved! MagicUnk 07:32, 11 September 2021 (EDT)
No worries made me realise I'd missed the verification. /Lokal_Profil 06:38, 12 September 2021 (EDT)

National Library of Sweden

How stable are the IDs in the library? If they are, we can request it to be added as an external ID :) That's how it works - if you look at the list, we have a few national libraries - and they kinda correspond to the editors/languages that are seen often around. Annie 16:35, 10 September 2021 (EDT)

The ids are stable. However the library are migrating their records to a linked data solution with new non numeric identifiers. While it will be possible to resolve old identifiers (likely forever) new acquisitions will only get an identifier in the new system.
Here you can se the same record in the new system vs. the old system. While the new system has great potential it is not as user friendly yet, hence why I use the old identifiers.
I work a fair bit with the library through work so we have some (open source) code in place for getting the new identifier from the old one should we implement support for the old one but want to migrate in the future. That code is currently running on Wikidata. /Lokal_Profil 17:36, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
I see. The reason I asked is because if we add the ID later, it will be a manual job to clean up and migrate the values already in notes. As I had been part of one too many of these migration projects, I tend to keep an eye for new IDs showing up as potential ones. We can always add the two systems for now... then retire the old one when and if needed I guess... That way new books will have both IDs, old ones just the new one and both links will work (thus allowing people to check all available data). Annie 18:02, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
It would certainly be possible to add support for 2 new External ID types. That said, while poking around the new Web site, I noticed that it includes a "clearing house" Web page. If you go here, you will land on a publication-specific page with 5 further links. Each link will take you to a different representation of the same data:
  • New HTML layout
  • Old HTML layout
  • JSON
  • Turtle
  • RDF/XML
(The "clearing house" page embeds new IDs in its URLs.)
Also, keep in mind that a single External ID can point to multiple external Web pages as long as they all share the same ID. That's how a single ASIN generates links to a dozen country-specific Amazon stores. Similarly, COPAC IDs generate two links on publication pages: one for an HTML version of the COPAC record and one for an XML version of the same record -- see this pub for an example. We could easily display 5 links for NLS IDs. Food for thought.
Whichever way we decide to go, it would be nice to make the decision sooner rather than later. As Annie pointed out, cleanup projects only get more time-consuming the longer they are delayed. Ahasuerus 20:13, 10 September 2021 (EDT)
The clearing house works with both identifiers but the old ones need a prefix i.e. resource/bib/10402637 = 7qjj2t1k0ghz6v0. Not sure how flexible the identifier system is, if it can generate different links based on the identifier (i.e. if numeric then prefix with resource/bib) then I'd say go for one identifier which supports them both. Otherwise I'd say support the old one only for now and possibly add a second link to the clearing house. When the the library switches over completely (I'd estimate 2 years for the public facing side) then all identifiers can be migrated over.
Either way the name for the identifier should be Libris (if we introduce both in parallel ten the newer one should be Libris XL, per what it's called internally, in OCLC and on the Wikimedia sites. /Lokal_Profil 05:01, 11 September 2021 (EDT)
The links are unconditional. However - having both IDs won’t be an issue as explained above. The question is - for the new service, where do we want to pint to - the clearing house or do we want to actually link to all 5 formats? Migrating things over sounds like fun until the first time you need to do it - one by one, via PubUpdate. It is doable but can get tedious.
That applies to all the links you are adding now anyway - which means that we really need to figure out what we are doing soonish :) Annie 05:17, 11 September 2021 (EDT)
I'd probably have two links for the new one. The first pointing to the Katalogisering view, the second to the clearing house using a title auch as "other formats". Note rhat you can't actually include the link to the web view since that requires knowing the old identifier. Id suggest two links for the old identifier as well, fitlrat to the web view second to the clearing house. /Lokal_Profil 06:37, 12 September 2021 (EDT)
Let me try to summarize. We will be adding two new External ID Types, one for the old interface and another one for the new interface. The old interface will be called "Libris" and the new interface will be called "Libris XL". The types of External IDs will display 2 links: one to the HTML representation of the library record and the other one to the "clearing house". If this sounds right, I can make the changes later today or tomorrow. Ahasuerus 10:08, 12 September 2021 (EDT)
That sounds about right to me. So effectively the below.
* Libris: link_1 = https://libris.kb.se/bib/$1, link_2 = https://libris.kb.se/resource/bib/$1
* Libris XL: link_1 = https://libris.kb.se/katalogisering/$1, link_2 = https://libris.kb.se/$1
/Lokal_Profil 16:29, 12 September 2021 (EDT)
For replacing my thinking was 1) download a database dump, 2) calculate all the needed identifiers, 3) upload using a script and the API. Shouldn't be too hard but would stil be a burden for mods needing to approve. (Also no guarantee I'm active at that point in time)./Lokal_Profil 06:37, 12 September 2021 (EDT)
As per Advanced Noted Search, at this time we have only 56 publications with "libris.kb.se" in the Notes field, so it shouldn't be too hard to migrate them manually. Ahasuerus 10:08, 12 September 2021 (EDT)
Most of those look familiar =) My comment about uploading via the API was for some later point when the old interface gets deprecated and we want to ensure that every publication with the old identifier also carries the new one. /Lokal_Profil 16:29, 12 September 2021 (EDT)
By the time you do all that, someone will convert them manually. But to each their own. As all old ones also have a new one(right?), what we can do is to make a report for books that have only the old one. Then when the old interface is dead, we can drop the old ID or convert to non-linking in case we want to keep them for posterity (especially because either catalogs can also still have them). Plus clearing them as they are made is a lot faster and less annoying than doing thousands of them later. Annie 17:23, 12 September 2021 (EDT)

(unindent) OK, FR 1431, "Add two External ID Types for National Library of Sweden", has been created. We'll go with the proposed URLs for now. It will be easy to adjust them later if anything changes. Ahasuerus 17:13, 13 September 2021 (EDT)

Done -- see this publication record for an example of the new External ID Types and Notes templates. Ahasuerus 20:45, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
Many thanks! I'll start migrating the old ones. As an aside, there is no way of querying all publications in a language without a certain identifier right? /Lokal_Profil 06:16, 14 September 2021 (EDT)
I am afraid there is no way to do it using Advanced Search. However, we can easily create a new cleanup report to look specifically for Swedish titles without a "Libris" or "Libris XL" External ID. It would be similar to other custom cleanup reports like Publications with an OCLC Verification, an ISBN and no OCLC External ID. Would you like me to create one? (And thanks for updating Template:PublicationFields:ExternalIDs , which I forgot about yesterday night.) Ahasuerus 13:23, 14 September 2021 (EDT)
Ahem - as I mentioned above, we will want one for the ones WITH the old but without the new. May as well just make it "Swedish books missing the new ID" altogether. Annie 14:22, 14 September 2021 (EDT)
Now that you mention it, yes, looking for pubs which contain at least one Swedish title and do not have a Libris XL ID should be sufficient for our purposes. I assume that all old Libris IDs have a matching Libris XL ID, right? Ahasuerus 15:36, 14 September 2021 (EDT)
For what the initial plan was - yes. But I have a feeling Lokal Profil may want to have a way to find all Swedish books with no IDs :) Annie 16:28, 14 September 2021 (EDT)
OK, FR 1433 "Cleanup report to find pubs with Swedish titles without Libris XL IDs" ha sbeen created. Once we see what it finds, Lokal Profil will be in a better position to tell whether it meets his needs. Ahasuerus 15:56, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
Done. The new cleanup report will appear on the Cleanup Reports menu one they are regenerated tomorrow morning. I expect it to find roughly 540 pubs, so it shouldn't be a huge cleanup effort. Ahasuerus 19:09, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
Thanks for the report. I think a second one "has old but not new id" would be usefull for a variety of reasons. 1) the old one is more likely to be added since this is the commonly reached interface and e.g. linked from OCLC, 2) finding the new id from the old interface is non-trivial, 3) once the old id has beeen added her finding the new one IS trivial thanks to the other formats link. As such the report isnfairly easy for anyone to clean up from (or for a bot to work of). [My mass adding lately only adds the old identifier since that is an easy edit to do from the mobile].
My original question about advanced search was indeed me trying to figure out how to find which publications couldnhave the identifier added. There is however also an alterior motive in trying to identify publications which are missing from the National Library (there is a legal requirement to send them a three xopies but that wasn't necessarily respected by pulp scifi/horror). This (and the fact that isfdb distinguishes between printings means the report wont ever be completely empty.
As an aside I discovered that for publications recently added (not necessarily the same as recently published)to Libris/Libris XL the identifier used is the same in both systems. So in those cases the Libris XL identifiers I've added are technically also Libris identifiers. This only applies to publications that didn't already have a numeric identifier. /Lokal_Profil 16:46, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
Sure, we can do that. FR 1437, "Report to find Swedish titles in pubs with a Libris ID and no Libris XL ID" has been created. Ahasuerus 18:02, 21 September 2021 (EDT)
Done. The data will appear tomorrow morning (server time.) Ahasuerus 15:05, 23 September 2021 (EDT)

Querying the Web API by pub ID

Many thanks! A quick question. Is there any way of retrieving a publication as XML based on the record ID (i.e. the number in the url)? I.e. same format as getpub.cgi but using that identifier rather than an ISBN. /Lokal_Profil 18:20, 24 September 2021 (EDT)

Not at this time, I am afraid. However, you are not the first person to request this functionality, so I have created FR 1438 "Update the Web API to allow requesting pubs by internal ID". Ahasuerus 20:36, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
Done -- see the new section in the Web API documentation. Ahasuerus 17:13, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
Thanks =) Guess I'll throw out my beautifulsoup code snippet then =)
Got my "add LibrisXL to entries with Libris" code working. Will clean it up a bit then share it when asking for web API submit access. /Lokal_Profil 18:26, 26 September 2021 (EDT)
Sounds like a plan! Ahasuerus 19:28, 26 September 2021 (EDT)
Made an access request on the moderator's board. /Lokal_Profil 17:48, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

Wording with Libraries

I was looking at this one. You and I know what Libris is, noone else does. I think we should keep the "National Library of Sweden" in the notes... In a format such as "National Library of Sweden/Libris" for example. What do you think? Annie 10:27, 15 September 2021 (EDT)

I considered this issue when I was implementing the two new templates and added hover-over bubbles explaining what "Libris" and "Libris XL" stand for -- see this pub for an example :-) Ahasuerus 13:39, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
I am not that worried about the External ID - there is a bubble there. I am talking about the notes themselves when one is reading them - I know that if you hover on it, there is a note but that does not work on iOS... OCLC is kinda a known thing; Libris can be anything. Plus these are notes - if you need to hover in 10 different places to understand what we mean, we overdid it a bit. Either that, or we need to change the text to say "National Library of Sweden" instead of "Libris" when we use it as a template... We change Tr to "Translated by" so... same applies here. Annie 13:48, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
Ah yes, iOS, my nemesis... How about a compromise solution -- tweaks the Libris templates to expand to "Libris (National Library of Sweden)" and "Libris XL (National Library of Sweden, new interface)" respectively? Ahasuerus 14:58, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
Perfect and then Lokal Profil can just ignore my note :) Annie 14:58, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
Done! Ahasuerus 15:49, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
Did you drop the ID itself on purpose? It is kind misleading now (and inconsistent with the rest) Annie 16:00, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
I am not sure what you mean by "drop the ID" -- the Notes field of this publication says "Publication data comes from OCLC 185837763 and Libris (National Library of Sweden) 7745025", so the Libris ID (7745025) is displayed. Could you please clarify? Ahasuerus 16:04, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
Apparently I was looking at one of the non-converted ones. Sorry :) Annie 16:12, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
No problem! After all, we are only human -- or at least most of us are ;-) Ahasuerus 16:19, 15 September 2021 (EDT)
Good work. You are definitely right in Libris not being widely known unlike OCLC. /Lokal_Profil 16:25, 18 September 2021 (EDT)

Brackets

We use () and not square brackets when we need to differentiate :) I fixed it here to keep it consistent. As you can see it also allows people to see what other series are there under that title - thus deciding if what they are trying to add belongs to one of them or if they need a brand new one. Annie 10:50, 17 September 2021 (EDT)

Thanks for fixing it. I was theown off by this one which uses square brackets. I also came across this one before (but in that case I ended up using normal brackets for the Swedish version). /Lokal_Profil 16:24, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
A lot of our old titles have... irregularities. Different rules at different times, different editors not following the rules... things happen. Some get fixed. Some we just keep as is for now. We try to make sure new data is always consistent though. Plus the () have special handling as you can see - so we do not end up with split series because people had no clue how it was differentiated. :) Annie 18:59, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

Editing titles

When you change the title of a book, please do not forget to also change the title of the TITLE record and of any other derivative titles (coverart always matches the title, interior art or essays based on the pub title and so on). Once the book is created, these become independent so when you change one, you need to change the rest manually. :) I fixed the record here. Annie 18:57, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

Thanks for fixing it. I've done so when fixing titles (or dates) in the past but missed this one. /Lokal_Profil 07:45, 21 September 2021 (EDT)

Ordering titles

Unless the Swedish publishers are doing something very weird, you may want to use pipes (|1, |2 and so on) to order the contents in books like this one so that the Introduction actually shows before the novel. :) It is always a good idea to tell the site how to order titles - so using the piped pages when you do not know the real pages is always a good idea. I did it in this one so you can see what I meant. Anything with no number will float at the top; if you want the interior art elsewhere, use a piped page number :) Annie 18:07, 23 September 2021 (EDT)

Thanks. I actually did that in a few of my edits (e.g. [1]) but without more info on the contents it quickly starts to feel like guesswork. In e.g. [2] sticking the introduction first feels pretty uncontroversial but as soon as I sort them I need to make a decision about where the map should be (without knowing if it's at the start or the end of the book). /Lokal_Profil 17:17, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
Just leave the map free-flowing :) It will bubble up at the top - which is what happens in most books anyway. So sort the textual elements, leave the map to fall where it wants. After all getting 2 of them in the correct order is better than none at all. Annie 17:32, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
Thanks will do so =) /Lokal_Profil 18:22, 24 September 2021 (EDT)

Two edits at the same time

Keep in mind that the Notes field is not cumulative - so if you need to add two notes, you cannot do it with two edits active at the same time - the second one when approved will lose the first one. I saved "C$9.99" from being lost here; most moderators will do the same but things can be missed so... if you have a pending edit in the field, wait for approval or reject the first edit and just add both changes in a new edit :) Annie 19:13, 23 September 2021 (EDT)

Thanks. This is just a case of me forgetting that I'd edited the notes field before. Normally I tend to do a new combined edit then cancelling the old submission. Thanks for spotting and saving it. /Lokal_Profil 17:19, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
A question while looking at this record. Since the artwork isn't credited in the physical book should I have set it to "uncredited" then varianted that record to a credited one? /Lokal_Profil 17:27, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
Not for covers. They are a special case - we cannot have a cover from uncredited (we just do not create a record when we do not know who it is); when we do know (from the book or from secondary sources), we create the record directly and use the notes to explain what is credited in the book. That's why I did not mention anything about it after your attribution. :) Annie 17:34, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
I assumed it was something like that =) This also means there is no way of connecting uncredited covers used across multiple publications together other than the notes field right? E.g. [3], [4], [5] -> [6]. /Lokal_Profil 18:25, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
Yep. And as we do not credit designers for covers, any cover that does not have an artist credit does not get a record so cannot be connected either. Stick around long enough and someone will reopen the discussion on all that. Or you can if you want :) Annie 18:30, 24 September 2021 (EDT)

Only You Can Save Mankind

Where is the date coming from here? Or did you forget to reset to 0000-00-00 during the clone? Thanks! Annie 19:15, 23 September 2021 (EDT)

I approved here but reset the date to 0000-00-00. If you have source for the 1997-00-00 date, please add it in the notes and set it again. Thanks! Annie 15:09, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
Good catch. It was indeed a relic of the clone. But while on the topic of this edit. The physical book credits another artist than every other pub on ISFDB with the same artwork. I cloned the cover art record but added a not about the credit. I'm assuming the other records are correct and the credit being some sort of weird printing error... but I'm just guessing. /Lokal_Profil 17:25, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
See if any of the other copies have an active PV and ask them to check their books. Who knows - yours may be the only correct one. Annie 17:35, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
Thanks. Done. /Lokal_Profil 18:45, 24 September 2021 (EDT)

Just a small request

Hello,

I understand that using the API to update the old books will work faster and so on. But adding the Libris XL with a second update on books you are just adding is requiring additional steps by the moderators (review your second submission, check the link to ensure it works, occasionally do a once over on the whole record to make sure all looks fine) thus adding to the load unnecessarily. So can you please just add the two IDs when you are adding the book? If you miss one, that's ok. But adding double load to the moderator team on purpose just so you can save some time on your side is a bit rude. :) Thanks in advance! Annie 18:35, 8 October 2021 (EDT)

So this requires a bit of background. I do most of my editing from the phone (essentially all but image uploads). With this set up copy-pasting is the safest way to ensure no data is misentered or auto"corrected". Most of the data I'm copying across from Libris (incl. the identifier) which works fairly easy. By contrast adding the LibrisXL identifier is more complicated, and yes time consuming, since LibrisXL is not as user friendly yet. Also since I have to crop the identifier out of the url I run a risk of accidentally messing it up without noticing.
I assumed that the moderator work would be exactly the same if I submit the libris and librisXL identifiers jointly or separately. In both cases the verification consists of clicking both links and checking that they match the record. Yes the queue would look larger but the workload would be the same.
I'm actually more worried about an added workload if I manually enter the LibrisXL identifier as it then runs the same risk of human error (I copy paste from the wrong tab or delete a character off either end when cropping it out of the url) as the Libris identifier. By contrast the update via the API is always correct (assuming the original Libris identifier was correct) as it only knows about the identifier already on the record and then relies on Libris to provide the new identifier. /Lokal_Profil 18:30, 9 October 2021 (EDT)
It saves you time. It adds work to other other people. Moderation is not Just approval of what you send - we check and verify that all matches and links properly and points to the correct place. Doing it twice for the same book will always take longer than doing it once - I can verify both IDs almost at the same time it takes me to verify one and in a single pass, I don’t need to look over the book entry in our dB twice. If u you have code that can give you the id easily, it should be easy to use it to get it with the initial submission. Plus we are a team - there are a few editors who try to help on reports. Sooner or later you will end up losing their time tracking down the second ID without your Magic script as well when they get to the report before you do. And no - we cannot tell people not to help :)
The idea of the cleanup report is to help is find incomplete data when it happens, not to add more work because someone does not enter complete entries on purpose.
I cannot stop you from doing whatever you want on this. I can only try to explain how that influences the rest of the volunteers on the site. Annie 18:39, 9 October 2021 (EDT)

Page numbers best practices

Setting something as "5|1" is going to confuse someone very badly when they need to edit this publication one day and mistakes will be made. As a rule, UNLESS you have a second piece on the same page (so you do 5|5.1 and so on) or you are dealing with a double and triple numbering sequences (multi-volumes, dos and so on), you do not add a | on the pages number if it is a number. So here, it will be just "5". Hope this makes sense. Annie 18:51, 8 October 2021 (EDT)

And having "142+[1]|2" as an entry page number (as opposed to Pages on the publication) is just wrong. The field records the first page of this content. So you put 142. I fixed that and another 5|1 here. No need to overengineer it - if it is just numbers in the field, we know how to order. You need to help it only if you do not not have a number to use. Please check the help page as well. Thanks! Annie 18:54, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
For the second case your reading of 142+[1] as 142 is wrong. Based on Template:PublicationFields:Pages unnumbered pages at the end are entered as 142+[1] (i.e. 142 numbered pages and one unnumbered page afterwards). To ensure the content on that page (142+[1]) to sort correctly (since its's non-numeric) I need to add the sorting pipe. while I used "|2" to indicate the second in the order of listed contents something like "|143" might have been clearer.
You are mixing up two fields. This is correct for the Pages field of the publication. It is not for the Page number in front of a content item where you had it - there you put the page the contents item starts on. If it is an unnumbered 143 from a 142+[4] range for example, you use [143]. Look at the help page I linked for the rules on that field (you get to it from the question mark next to the entry page number in the regular section). Annie 18:29, 9 October 2021 (EDT)
That seems weird to me. By contrast this pub has pages in the end where the numbering has restarted. The content there is entered as 148+5 (to distinguish it from the first page 5), entering it as 153 wouldn't make sense since it wouldn't help the user find it. Using the same logic the content should here be entered as 142+[1], and content on unnumbered pages before pagination starts would just be [2], say.
I did look at the help page and I read this as a case of "Unnumbered pages within a range of unnumbered pages". I.e. the novel itself is on the numbered pages. This content (and in other later books advertisements etc.) are part of this second range of unnumbered pages. /Lokal_Profil 18:55, 9 October 2021 (EDT)
That publication you are citing is incorrect as well and needs fixing. Please show me where exactly the help page allows for using + signs in that field? The exact text is “If a content starts on an unnumbered page within a range of unnumbered pages, its page number should first be derived and then entered in squared bracelet” followed by an example. You derive the page by counting but you do not leave a numbered+unnumbered expression in that field - you do the math if needed or in the case if pre-novel data and so on, you do not account them at all for the page number. So if the novel starts on page 1 after i-ix, you leave it at 1 and if there is an unnumbered page 143 after 142 pages of a novel where the afterword starts, that’s [143] technically. Think of it as “what will be printed as a page number if there was a printed number” and for the printed numbers we record them as they are. So the pages pub field will be “x+142+[1]” or just “x+143” for example but the pages numbers below for the contents items will be 1 and [143] for example and v if the introduction in that i-x range is on page 5 of it). Hope that helps a bit. The expressions are for the Pages field above. As for reading or not - the fact is that when you responded above, you cited and linked the rules for a different field altogether.
The field should have a single number or one of the allowed strings (unless you use pipes to order something). Syntaxes like 123+4 and so on are not expected nor regular. Annie 19:10, 9 October 2021 (EDT)
Just so it is clear - the page governing these numbers is template:PubContentFields:Page and not the Pub fields Pages one which you linked above. Annie 19:16, 9 October 2021 (EDT)
So just to be clear in [7] you are saying that both content entries should have "5" as the page number (sorted appropriately) since that is what is printed on the page despite the potential for confusion? If so it would probably be good to add an example to the "Books where numbering is restarted for various reasons, like Ace Doubles, omnibuses, etc." line on Template:PubContentFields:Page.
Yes unless you want to use 5 and v and explain the usage in the notes "to avoid confusion, the second range is represented with Roman numerals despite Arabic ones being used in the book" or words to that effect. As you have a note that it restarts with 5 after the original text, using 5 is what is technically expected. Annie 17:34, 11 October 2021 (EDT)
To be clear I'm happy to update these and bring them in line with what is used elsewhere. /Lokal_Profil 17:14, 11 October 2021 (EDT)
See this for an example of a double with two pages 5 in one of the Ace Doubles. It is "what page does this content start on" number - explanations on how to interpret them goes into the notes. Hope this helps. Annie 17:34, 11 October 2021 (EDT)


For the first one the reason the pipe snuck in was that I'd initially planned on adding the page numbers for the interior art mentioned in the note. It struck me however that I have not confirmed the artist of the artwork and therefor could not add them. Was also thinking about adding the short synopsis of those stories but couldn't decide if they are synopsis or just advertisement. Forgot to drop the pipe once I decided not to enter these, sorry for that. /Lokal_Profil 18:11, 9 October 2021 (EDT)
That’s fine but once you have the page numbers, cleanup the field. Annie 18:29, 9 October 2021 (EDT)

Non-genre magazines

Don't forget to click on the "non-genre" checkbox when adding non-genre magazines which published SF stories such as Teknikmagasinet :) I fixed it here and will let you fix it in the rest when adding the next year's yearly record. The big difference between genre and non genre magazine is what we include - for genre ones all is in even when there are no-genre pieces; for non-genre ones only the genre contents is in. The "Editors of YYY" is the non-genre magazine catch-all (so we do not chase non-genre editors unless we want to).

Thanks for adding these! Annie 03:41, 20 October 2021 (EDT)

Thanks. I was unsure if the non-genre marker was used for the container titles as well, did some spot checking on other non-genre magazines but didn't see them use it. Using it from now on. /Lokal_Profil 19:20, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
It is a newish flag )for some value of new anyway :) If you see a non-genre publication of any type that needs it, feel free to just submit an edit. The New Yorker is a good example of non-genre magazine and how we handle it. Please note that the rules for non-genre magazines were changed a few months ago - "Editors of" used to be mandatory for non-genre magazines' authors so most of the old records will only have that (plus eventually any genre-related other editor; newer ones can be a bit different and may even lack the Editors of. The help page for non-genre periodicals is here if you had not found it yet :) Annie 19:34, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

Adding art credits

When adding an art credit, we need the source for it in the actual notes, not just the moderator notes. If the link is unstable or cannot be added to the notes then it goes to the moderator notes but a note that allows someone to find it/research it later needs to be in the regular notes. And in this case, the note read: "Cover art uncredited, no visible signature on the artwork [Paul Lehr?]" which became a contradiction to actually having a credited artist. So the note needed rewriting - see how I did it. Thanks for finding this one! Annie 00:02, 26 October 2021 (EDT)

Will keep that in mind. Thanks for fixing this one. /Lokal_Profil 02:52, 26 October 2021 (EDT)

Re Vaiant: Ett envist fall

Hi! your submission[8] would create a variant of it's self. I will put it on hold so you can find the correct title. Just reject it and resubmit. ThanksKraang 21:24, 1 November 2021 (EDT)

Thanks. Must have hit the wrong submit button. Should be a variant of "A Case of the Stubborns". Will resubmit. /Lokal_Profil 07:14, 2 November 2021 (EDT)

Orphaned titles

They indeed need manual deletion (titles and series do; publishers, authors and pub series just disappear). However - you cannot submit the delete until the connected story is connected elsewhere. I cleared up the extra Swedish "Experimentet" :) Annie 00:12, 12 November 2021 (EST)

Thanks! /Lokal_Profil 01:31, 16 November 2021 (EST)

Birth Places

Hello,

We use the format "City, Administrative division, Country" and not City (country) :). See this for more details. So "Herrestad (Sweden)" should be "Herrestad, Sweden". I fixed it here. Annie 23:54, 16 November 2021 (EST)

Thanks. Had missed that convention. Fixed the earlier ones as well. /Lokal_Profil 16:25, 17 November 2021 (EST)
Thanks! Most fields that are not Notes have some rules on what is acceptable there (and even Notes have the templates and so on). So if you had not used a field in a while, it is always a good idea to check the help page attached to it even if it looks absolutely obvious at a glance. :) Annie 20:30, 17 November 2021 (EST)

Tale of the Thunderbolt

You will need to redo the clone for your third printing on this one I am afraid. When the excerpts got merged, the ID of the one that was part of your clone disappeared - which means that the clone is not viable anymore and all I can do is to force reject. Annie 11:06, 23 November 2021 (EST)

No worries. Thanks for flagging it. /Lokal_Profil

Eric

There are two possibilities here:

  • The year is wrong (as you assumed)
  • The number line was copied from an earlier edition and not cleaned up (happens a LOT with clones).

As we have an active PV, please check with them. As a rule, even if it looks obvious, if there is an active PV, always pre-check with them. I will keep this one on hold until you are working with the PV to figure out in which case we are. Thanks! Annie 14:55, 24 November 2021 (EST)

My bad. Just changed it as part of creating my clone without checking if it had a PV. Reached out to them now. /Lokal_Profil 06:00, 25 November 2021 (EST)
@Annie: The PV just updated the year themselves after I raised it with them. I noticed that my held edit also updated the year of the cover and interior art so it's probably still worth merging it. Cheers /Lokal_Profil 15:34, 27 November 2021 (EST)
Yep. Approved. Annie 16:51, 27 November 2021 (EST)

Artists attributed in error

See how we handle this here. That way we do not end up with DB inconsistencies (as we won't variant Vallejo to Brunner (and we can technically make the (in error) author a pseudonym of many authors if needed. In addition, that also shows up on the Vallejo page so people know that there are things being called his in error - and can check if they are not sure if something is. Please let me know if you have any questions/concerns. Annie 19:11, 6 December 2021 (EST)

Nice, q much more elegant solution :) I'll do the same for the other miscredited cover in the series. /Lokal_Profil 05:56, 7 December 2021 (EST)

Gray Mouser

Just wanted to say, great entries for the Swedish editions. --Spacecow 08:58, 18 December 2021 (EST)

Thanks! I have the complete publisher series boxed in the basement so grabbed a few last time I was down for data entry. Since there are so many it was worth having a think about a resulable format. If you are interested in the series (or just individual books) then https://fantasyfredag.home.blog is a great read (in Swedish). /Lokal_Profil 09:52, 18 December 2021 (EST)

Variants

With the exception of translations, art appearing as both interior art and cover art, and multi-volume works, variants are for the same work under a different title and/or author credit. They are not for variations in the work itself. As such:

  • Waiting for the Machines to Fall Asleep [Free sampler]: I rejected this submission. An excerpt is not treated as the same work as the original. We leave them as separate records. I updated the title note to link to the original anthology.
  • Radicalized: I also rejected this submission and this submission. Instead, I merged them together. We treat variations in color, cropping, etc. as the same artwork. As such, they are all merged under a single record (when the titles / author credits match). If we were to treat the two colors as separate title records, we would not variant them, but instead leave them as two independent records.

Hopefully that explanation makes sense. I know since we sometimes use variants for differences in works (translation predominantly), it means variants can be confusing. Let us know if you have any questions. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:32, 26 December 2021 (EST)

Thanks for the feedback and the corrections.
For the sampler I actually asked about this in the mod note when I created the publication since it was by no means an obvious variant.
For the coverart it would probably be good with a note on the Help screen about not varianting if the base artwork is the same. Because in the literal sense the red one is very much a variant of the white one :) /Lokal_Profil 04:53, 28 December 2021 (EST)
The approving moderator must not have looked at the original or misunderstood. Sorry about that. And yes, variant is an overloaded term which causes confusion. -- JLaTondre (talk) 07:58, 28 December 2021 (EST)

Interior Artwork Numbering

Regarding this submission: We don't number the first of multiple illustrations per story. We only add numbers to the second and onwards. Another one of our idiosyncrasies ;-) -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:23, 28 December 2021 (EST)

Thanks. That was one I'd missed :) /Lokal_Profil 08:56, 28 December 2021 (EST)

Web API updated

The Web API has been updated as per FR 1474, "Return submission id in api response". Thanks for bringing it up! Ahasuerus 20:44, 3 January 2022 (EST)

P.S. FR 1473, "Tweak Libris cleanup reports", has been implemented as well. Ahasuerus 21:35, 3 January 2022 (EST)
Many thanks! /Lokal_Profil 08:22, 4 January 2022 (EST)
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