User talk:Holmesd

See Archive 1 20 Jan 2008 to 23 October 2014

See Archive 2 24 October 2014 to 15 January 2018

See Archive 3 18 January 2018 to 15 October 2020

Forest Mage cover

It looks like you PVed and added a cover image to [1]. On my copy the New York Times blurb and title are in orange, but it appears as if yours are pink. Do you think this is a scan artifact, or that there are actually two cover styles? --GlennMcG 19:26, 21 October 2020 (EDT)

Just checked to see if it was fading and the actual colour is orange - so probably a colour adjustment by the scanner to compensate for something. ../Doug H 22:59, 21 October 2020 (EDT)

Then I'll scan my cover and update the record. --GlennMcG 01:01, 22 October 2020 (EDT)

And my HP laserjet has the same problem. I had to take a picture with my phone to get it orange. --GlennMcG 01:26, 22 October 2020 (EDT)

Princeps' Fury / Butcher

I'm cloning [2] for a later printing, and noticed the format given doesn't match my copy. My copy of later printing, but same price, is a premium/tall rack format. --GlennMcG 21:18, 26 December 2020 (EST)

I need to put this (and several other books) into Transient. I recall that the books in the series did contain the premium/tall rack size, but couldn't swear to this particular one. Given it's my image and the proportions match, I'd say this one should change. It's been a long time since the earlier discussion in 2009 and I suspect many editors haven't been following the rules. ../Doug H 11:01, 27 December 2020 (EST)

Are you suggesting that I change it? --GlennMcG 14:40, 28 December 2020 (EST)

I no longer have it, so the other primary verifier now has the last word. My inclination is to change it. My inclination is also to resurrect the 2009 discussion in light of 10+ years of experience and mayhem. ../Doug H 09:14, 29 December 2020 (EST)

Tim Hildebrandt's Flights of Fantasy

I added a cover, some notes and the chase/promo cards to the set Flights of Fantasy Susan O'Fearna 16:41, 1 January 2021 (EST)

Good stuff. ../Doug H 09:49, 2 January 2021 (EST)

Submission 4909635

So busy checking titles I missed some author errors - Ann K Schwader (missing a period), Kevin L. O'Brien (missing the initial), Stanley C. Sargent (missing a period). Need to add O'Brien revision to notes as well. Please approve and I'll fix. Thanks ../Doug H 11:17, 10 February 2021 (EST)

Talking to yourself? :) Approved, fixed the 3 authors and "Welcome To Goatshead" -> "Welcome to Goatshead". I don't like how the Introduction is named but I need to find a title page before I go fixing it... Annie 11:31, 10 February 2021 (EST)

Oh - and I just did all the needed merges :) Annie 11:34, 10 February 2021 (EST)

Might explain why my edit submission errors out - Python - index error. Intro pre-existed as did one story. ../Doug H 11:37, 10 February 2021 (EST)

Sorry... :) Yeah - I know it was preexisting - I was just saying :) Annie 11:41, 10 February 2021 (EST)

PS: And just the usual reminder - use "Import" :) Annie 11:42, 10 February 2021 (EST)

Since when did submissions create a new tab when submitting? If I'd noticed I'd have cancelled the update, fixed it and resubmitted. Or was it switching from Firefox to Edge? I still think of import only for cloning situations - anthology to anthology kind of thing. ../Doug H 11:52, 10 February 2021 (EST)

Or is simply the submission that errored out. I create too many tabs to for breadcrumbs. ../Doug H 11:55, 10 February 2021 (EST)

They don't create a new tab unless you do Control+Submit (or whatever button you have in there) and force the browser do to them. :) And yeah - tracking down the stories ID may be annoying but then we do not need to merge all the titles (plus it reduces mistakes in titles and authors names) :) Annie 12:00, 10 February 2021 (EST)

Control + (mouse) Select ==> new tab !! Finally an end to right click and "Open in a new tab". I owe you one. ../Doug H 12:13, 10 February 2021 (EST)

Starlog

As an active verifier of Starlog issues, please see this conversation regarding its genre status. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:37, 23 March 2021 (EDT)

Took a look, no comment, only verified because the entries existed and I rans across some copies. ../Doug H 21:38, 23 March 2021 (EDT)

Saga of Recluse

You are a PV of at least one volume please follow link to review proposed changes Saga of Recluse maps consolidation thanks John Hi Doug, posted a response to you comment. Scifibones 18:05, 25 March 2021 (EDT)

Another map consolidation

As a PV of many volumes please follow link to review proposed changes to Magic Kingdom of Landover map consolidation. Hopefully you thought the last one was beneficial. John, Scifibones 19:27, 24 April 2021 (EDT)

Carolie Bickford-Smith?

Hi, just wondering if the entry is really correct here, since there's Coralie Bickford-Smith. In case it is (which seems a bit more likely than the other way 'round) the two should likely connected per pseudonym, I guess. Christian Stonecreek 11:17, 2 May 2021 (EDT)

Probably a mis-reading/typing. According to Amazon it is Coralie Bickford-Smith. I'll submit an edit. ../Doug H 13:40, 2 May 2021 (EDT)

Children of the Fleet

Added a couple Ext ID's to Children of the Fleet. Let me know if you don't want to be bothered with these minor edits. John Scifibones 15:01, 8 May 2021 (EDT)

I like to know about things I can check (an exercise in humility, a lesson in taking care), but things that are the result of research that go in notes or specific fields don't matter. Also don't need to know about things I only verify as transient. ../Doug H 22:50, 8 May 2021 (EDT)

Islands in the Sky artist

Since your verification was transient and from 2015, I don't suppose you still have access to a copy, but just in case... A new editor added an artist credit to Islands in the Sky based on an "RAO" signature at the bottom left of the front cover. I don't see it in the scan, but I may be missing it or it might be cropped. Anyway, if you do still have access to it and could confirm or deny, that would be great. I did accept the submission and also encouraged the editor to do a primary verification. Thanks. --MartyD 08:19, 9 May 2021 (EDT)

I keep scans of all the books, and my copy does not appear to have what I can recognize as RAO. I'll give him a ping to see if his cover is cut differently or see if I can learn how to spot these things better. ../Doug H 13:56, 9 May 2021 (EDT)

Le pays des fourrures

Found a nice one for one euro ! Linguist 05:24, 12 August 2021 (EDT).

With the recent easing of restrictions in Canada / Manitoba, I'm hoping to get back to the University library to finish their collection and the book charity where all kinds of odd things show up. ../Doug H 08:38, 12 August 2021 (EDT)

Glide Path printing statement

Hi. I have on hold a submission wanting to clone your transient verified 1965 Dell Glide Path (Arthur C. Clarke) based on his copy's stating "Printed in Canada". I realize your verification is transient and was done 5 years ago, so I'm not terribly hopeful, but do you by any chance still have access to it? If so, would you check and see what it says? There is a permanent PV, so I'm asking him as well. Thanks. --MartyD 08:43, 21 August 2021 (EDT)

No real chance - many of my transients are books passing through a charity sale I work for. I do tend to be sensitive to Canadian printings as it is my home, so expect that if I hadn't cloned it to say it was a Canadian printing, it likely wasn't. ../Doug H 10:16, 21 August 2021 (EDT)

Changing Burroughs Books

Hi Doug -

I have some suggestions for your edit to effectively split Ace publications of Burroughs books. First, I think before you made these edits, you should probably have conferred with all the active verifiers. I don't have an issue with what you're doing, but you're arbitrarily deciding which of the two different printings is represented by the existing publication record and which one gets the new record. I think a better approach would be to see which printing each verifier has. The existing record should probably conform to the earliest verifier's copy. Alternatively, to whichever edition is held by the most verifiers. For my copies, Thuvia and Moon Maid have the 47th St address; Monster Men has the ads for F-156 through F-181. One additional point, this is really something that should have gone on my regular talk page. The other "changes to verified" page is really just for covers and minor changes to the notes. I don't get an automatic notification on the other page like do on the main one. I've put your edits for the three that I've verified on hold. Please reach out to the other verifiers and see if you're noting the correct edition for the existing publication record. Thanks. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 18:08, 25 August 2021 (EDT)

I don't disagree, but would like to offer a defense, although I question your use of "effectively". As to conferring in advance, I've tried that before when was splitting based on my own copies, rather than a reference book. The response ratio was low and slow. And the choice is not arbitrary - I have chosen based on copies I own and have verified. Whichever variant I had already vouched for remained, the reference-only version was cloned. Your other suggestions (earliest, most) would depend on getting responses from everyone, and many are not available. Also changing verifications is in editor's control and immediate, whereas moving text from entry to entry requires moderator intervention. So, while you may disagree, and may enforce your suggestions, it was not unconsidered or arbitrary. And in response to your additional point, your talk page does say "If you're writing to inform me that you've either added a COVER IMAGE or NOTES", and my change was just to the notes. I do not know why you chose to use the technique, or how it works. And finally, I have reached out to all the other 'active' verifiers as I've made the changes.

So, that said, how would you like me to proceed? I have 4 more potential entries to create in the Ace Books. There are likely a number of Ballantine, but these tend to be straight-forward (no ads, addresses, printing history variants). ../Doug H 22:42, 25 August 2021 (EDT)

Let me start off with a bit of history about the cover image and notes pages. It has been the etiquette here to discuss any changes to a verified publication with the primary verifiers prior to making the edit for some time. Several years ago we did not have the note to moderator function, nor did we have fields for external ids. Several editors considered edits to add a missing cover image, or to to add an external ID to the notes, or other trivial matter to the notes to be minor such that they did not wish to be pre-notified before the edit was made. The two innovations that I mentioned makes these pages less necessary, though editors, myself included, have not bothered to take these pages down. The issue with the edits you submitted is that they were not merely a minor addition to the notes, though that is how they are accomplished. In this cases you changing a publication record that referred to a specific edition of a book such that it would refer to a completely different edition. This would be no different than if one had verified the first printing of a book and it was edited to make it into a second printing (assume the date didn't change for this hypothetical). Yes, that would be accomplished by merely updating the notes, but to do so without getting the assent of the verifiers would not be within the agreed etiquette of the project. While I am really not excited about moving a verification because you have determined that the edition that I verified back in 2009 needs to be moved to a new record, I will move my verification if a majority of the other active and responsive verifiers have the other edition. However, none of this should be done until we have everyone's agreement (everyone active) on how to proceed. I'll also note that it's the same number of edits no matter which edition is the existing one and which is the cloned. Keeping the existing to the one that most have already verified, keeps the movement of verifications to a minimum. Anyway, my suggestion is to start by finding out who has what edition. I gave you mine above. Once that's done we can determine whether your proposed edits are appropriate, or should be reversed. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 19:12, 26 August 2021 (EDT)

An observation - I went back through the notifications I received since 2008 and pretty much all of them were after the fact. A question - if the change had been a simple assertion of publisher's address, or an advertisement (in the context of helping date the entry), an artist credit or the colour of the page edges without the assertion that there was an alternate version, would that warrant prior notification under the old etiquette or actual notification under the new one? The argument being that what you have matches the existing entry and you are just adding more information. ../Doug H 09:51, 27 August 2021 (EDT)

You'll definitely find examples where proper notification was not given. For the examples you give, it's really up to the verifier, and personally, I wouldn't object to being notified in only in the moderator notes for those. Even simple edits can be a problem though. Another editor recently updated my verified copy of a trade edition of a book, with all the information for the limited edition (all in the notes). If he had checked first, it would have eliminated extra work. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 17:57, 27 August 2021 (EDT)

Changing Burroughs Books (Poll)

Based on a new reference book on Ace (and Ballantine) editions of Edgar Rice Burroughs, I have identified several ISFDB entries that should be split. Details first:

• Monster Men - Ads: Burroughs - 11 titles (F-156 to F-181) vs Burroughs - 22 titles (F-156 to F 213)

Rtrace 1 | Holmesd 2 | GlennMcG 1

• The Moon Maid - Address: 23 West 47th Street vs 1120 Ave of Americas

Rtrace 1 | Holmesd 2 | Spacecow 1 | GlennMcG 2

• Pirates of Venus - Ads: 9 Burroughs titles vs. 22 Burroughs titles

Kpulliam | Rtrace 1 | Biomassbob 1| Holmesd 2 | GlennMcG 1

• Tarzan and the Lost Empire - Address: 1120 Avenue of the Americas vs. 23 West 47th Street

Rtrace 1 | Holmesd 2 | Hifrommike65 1 | Spacecow neither (23 West 47th Street) | GlennMcG neither (23 West 47th Street)

• Thuvia Maid of Mars - Ads & Address: Burroughs (F-156 to F-169), 23 West 47th Street vs Burroughs (F-156 to F-204), 1120 Ave of Americas

Rtrace 1 | Taweiss 1 | Holmesd 1 | GlennMcG 1

Please indicate which version you have. I have included the names of the verifiers after the titles, please enter your version after your name. I have completed mine (Holmesd) as a model. I would also like to get agreement on how to decide which variant stays with the existing entry (and verifications) and which one is created, possibly necessitating changing PVs. Some options are:

• Earliest verifier wins (as ordered above)
• Most frequent version wins
• Earliest version chronologically wins
• I win (simply because I'm found and entered the changes)

Please feel free to suggest, comment or vote. Two points: by marking your version above, you can prevent having to pull the book(s) twice and there are PV who have not been included as they are no longer active. The floor is open. Thank you. ../Doug H 23:18, 26 August 2021 (EDT)

Done. Can you link the ISFDB record for this new reference work on Burroughs? Thanks. (BTW, you did mean "I've found," right?) Mike 00:15, 27 August 2021 (EDT) (I've or I'd or simply I - The moving finger writes; and having writ, moves on ../Doug H 08:54, 27 August 2021 (EDT))

Also Done. Doug's reference book is here. While I'd love to keep my own verifcations intact, I think the fairest course would be most frequent version wins, followed by earliest verifier wins as a tie-breaker. Thanks. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 06:41, 27 August 2021 (EDT)

Also done (last night). Ok with Ron's resolution. --GlennMcG 14:54, 27 August 2021 (EDT)

I've approved the edits for Thuvia, since we all have the same edition. For Monster Men, the held edit is the reverse of what we want. For Moon Maid, we'll hopefully get a response from Spacecow soon. I don't believe the edits for remaining two have been submitted yet, but it looks like they could be now. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 17:42, 28 August 2021 (EDT)

The remaining vote won't change the outcome, so I'll submit the remaining edits and once approved, I'll post links to the new entries on the talk pages of those affected. Thanks to all for participating. ../Doug H 10:48, 29 August 2021 (EDT)

And for the record, in case this becomes a precedent, my preference for choosing would be that the editor gets to decide. My reasoning is that they can then post links to both entries when notifying PVers and minimize the elapsed time and editor's time. ../Doug H 10:48, 29 August 2021 (EDT)

Done. Sorry for being late. --Spacecow 14:02, 29 August 2021 (EDT)

I've moved my PVs as needed. I see that Holmesd has verified the ones he claimed above, but not yet unverified the others. --GlennMcG 22:06, 2 September 2021 (EDT)

Thuvia[,] Maid of Mars

The NEL editions of Thuvia Maid of Mars (per cover) have a mismatch between their publication title (no comma) and their content title (comma). The cover art also has no comma. Could the PVers please let me know whether there is a comma on the title page of their editions. I have created an entry for the first occurrence of Thuvia Maid of Mars (with no comma) here, a 1921 Grosset & Dunlap edition. I'm willing to make the change as it seems to be tricky to get the content of a novel changed, and there is one publication with no PV that I will change if the other two match each other. Thank you for your attention. ../Doug H 11:01, 31 August 2021 (EDT)

1974-12-00 edition Willem H. / Dirk P Broer

1975-06-00 edition Unapersson

The comma is present on the titlepage of my edition. Should also be added to the coverart title. Thanks! --Willem 03:18, 1 September 2021 (EDT)

Willem's edition is the same as mine, so the comma is also present on the title page of my edition.--Dirk P Broer 09:48, 1 September 2021 (EDT)

Comma present in my edition --Unapersson 12:11, 3 September 2021 (EDT)

Updated submitted. Thanks. ../Doug H 22:01, 3 September 2021 (EDT)

The Chessmen of Mars

I approved your edit to this edition of The Chessmen of Mars. The cover scan has both US and Canadian prices listed, so if that cover is correct, I think we can determine the price as US with C$5.99 for Canada. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 09:52, 3 September 2021 (EDT)

There are 4 different Canadian printings 20-23) under that ISBN that were printed in Canada and are listed as $4.99 in the catalogue. There is no way to be sure that the Amazon image is for this particular printing. The exchange rate applied on books can be much higher than the money market might suggest. ../Doug H 15:26, 3 September 2021 (EDT)

We may want to remove that cover image then, if we're not sure, or at least note that the price in the photo may not reflect the price on the book. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 16:58, 3 September 2021 (EDT)

Opted for the note approach. ../Doug H 21:51, 3 September 2021 (EDT)

Question about Burroughs

Does that book have translations as well or just English language editions? Thanks! Annie 11:21, 15 September 2021 (EDT)

Just Ace and Ballantine (well Charter, Tempo and Del Rey as well). They are all English. I don't know if they do non-English. ../Doug H 11:23, 15 September 2021 (EDT)

Nope, they don't. Oh well :) Have fun with them :) I may decide to add some non-English versions at some point... Annie 11:24, 15 September 2021 (EDT)

I think I've got a couple of Hungarian ones in there (that you helped with as I recall). I should probably try to find the others. ../Doug H 11:36, 15 September 2021 (EDT)

Goodreads and OCLC are good starting points, especially for modern editions. Fantlab for older ones, especially Slavic ones... On the list it goes. Annie 11:41, 15 September 2021 (EDT)

Asimov's Annotated "Don Juan"

I'm holding your edit to add Asimov's Annotated "Don Juan". I don't think this should be NONFICTION. I'm also not certain that it is eligible. If it is, I would think this would be a CHAPBOOK containing Byron's poem. Although, there are several epic poems that are entered as novels. The problem is that I don't think the poem is speculative. Whether a non-genre item can be entered because of annotations by an above the threshold author is kind of a new question. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 09:59, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

I don't disagree regarding the NONFICTION vs. CHAPBOOK. I've never read Don Juan. I expect the content to be non-genre, as that was the point of the exercise - adding non-fiction material by the threshold author Isaac Asimov. The request was non-specific and I've Talk'ed with the sponsor Annie here and you didn't reject my approach here when I suggested Paradise Lost was non-genre. If you'd like to hold it pending a resolution of the new question, I'm fine with that. I watch most forums so should be able to follow the discussion. My current approach is basically enter the referenced publications with a minimum of research, and will do a second pass to augment with covers, content and external sources. The first pass gives the submissions time to be processed and the second will include pre-existing non-fiction / non-genre. Since Paradise Lost, I've been checking the type of content in the first pass. ../Doug H 12:17, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

The difference is that Paradise Lost is genre (so its annotated version is also in) while Don Juan is not. So I'd say it is not-eligible (yes, it is on that list - the majority of it IS eligible thus me asking someone to work through them but that does not mean that there are no exceptions). We won't add an annotated Bible either or a book about thermodynamics just because Asimov happened to write an introduction. If the main text of the book is not his (and for annotated works the main text is whatever is being annotated), the book's eligibility will come from the actual author (or book)'s eligibility, not Asimov's IMO. Annie 13:21, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

Paradise Lost (as such) is not listed under John Milton's Bibliography. ../Doug H 13:53, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

We miss a lot of books. :) Most likely it was never added because of the same rules that stop us from adding the Bible but as it is not a religious text, it is ours IMO. I think we should have it. It is a thin line sometimes...

I've had enough worms, I don't plan on adding it. Either add it and let me know and I'll finish/create the Asimov entry or tell me you're not going to and I'll cancel the submission. ../Doug H 16:50, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

Well, unless we claim Paradise Lost as genre, the annotated version is not eligible. Annie 17:19, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

We can open a discussion on the topic and see what everyone else thinks but... If it is decided that it is not really genre for some reason, its annotated version will be also out.

What about non-genre collective works in which he contributes an essay? Topic is non-genre, bulk is ineligible, but his contribution is homogenous with the remaining portion? What about his contribution to TV Guide Magazine - would that depend on how genre-related it is? ../Doug H 13:58, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

Non-genre nonfiction is only eligible if it is a book and not just an article somewhere. So "TV Guide Magazine" - unless it is about speculative fiction, it is out; essays in other people's book - unless they are about speculative fiction, they are out (or we will end up adding thousands of books because a genre author wrote an introduction). Annie 14:07, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

What if an Arthur Clarke introduction to a non-genre text made reference to how he came to write 2001, A Space Odessey? Would that make it genre? Do we have to read and assess everything even after an author is above a threshold? ../Doug H 14:02, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

If it is just an article/essay and not a full book, you do not include it UNLESS it is genre. Above threshold does not mean "everything is in" - there is an exception there exactly for these essays. I would not include Clarke's essay in that case quite honestly but it is borderline and if it is about his own book, it is technically eligible. Annie 14:07, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

Presumably referencing point 4 in the ISFDB Policy : Included which talks about exclusions as opposed to anything in the Excluded. Gotcha. Back to the salt mines now. ../Doug H 16:50, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

Yep. The "Included", point 4. It gives us the threshold stuff (which is why we are adding these but excludes non-genre "non-fiction which was not published as a standalone book" - which cuts all the introductions, magazines articles on all kinds of topics and so on unless the publication is otherwise eligible OR they are about speculative fiction in some way or form. Point 3 does not have the same exclusion so a review of a speculative book or an article tied to a speculative publication is always in but non-genre is a bit more fine-grained. :) Annie 17:19, 4 October 2021 (EDT)

Cleaning for the sake of cleaning

Hi Doug,

See my message here. I will be happy to discuss more if needed but let's keep in mind the basic idea of the Wiki cleanup:

• Move the data from the Wiki to the DB (or link to the Wiki if needed)
• Retire the old links which connected wiki to DB based on tags once we have the previous done.

Trying to fix something on these reports by deleting valid data is the opposite of what we want to do. That means that the reports WILL have some uncleanable entries - that's ok. Once we know that all remaining are the uncleanables, we can either retire the report or change it to allow for them or to allow ignoring or something. But losing data so we lose a line on a cleanup report is never the correct way to fix something :)

PS: And thanks for working on these :) Most of the remaining in some categories are the hard ones that were left over after multiple passes. Annie 14:21, 5 October 2021 (EDT)

Nonfiction and chapbooks

Chapbooks are only used when there is a fiction element (story, poem or serial). When the whole content is non-fiction, we use NONFICTION regardless if the contents is 10 pages or 1000 pages or if it is unified text or a collection of articles (anthology and collection are also only used when there fiction pieces). I fixed this one. :) Annie 15:25, 5 October 2021 (EDT)

Double quotes around href

Hi Doug,

You may want to check your template for new books: You have ""https://asimov.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Books_by_Isaac_Asimov"" which then gets into a report because of the "" at the start and the end :) Annie 14:34, 6 October 2021 (EDT)

Cut and past from the Excel spreadsheet, works differently if you copy from the cell or the edit box. Given the number of times I've started/stopped I'm not surprised I missed some. I plan to go through them all again adding external references and images, so will check them all then (along with any other things I notice as I go). Thanks for caring. ../Doug H 17:13, 6 October 2021 (EDT)

They showed up on the Invalid HREF in Notes reports - so I fixed the ones that were having the problem. This was more of a "you have a glitch in your process somewhere" post and not a "we have problems that need fixing". :) Annie 17:22, 6 October 2021 (EDT)

Ask Isaac Asimov

I approved your edit to add Is Our Planet Warming Up?. I made one change to your edit. You had listed "Ask Isaac Asimov" as a publication series. I think this is more properly a title series and I've changed it to reflect that. My evidence is that this Worldcat record shows the book issued by a different publisher as being in the same series. Pub series are almost always under a single publisher. Thanks. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 09:47, 7 October 2021 (EDT)

Clearly, there were a few other new publications, and I've made the same changes to each. I spot checked a few others and they use the series name across publishers. Thanks again. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 10:00, 7 October 2021 (EDT)

Most bibliographies don't mention the Heinemann editions, certainly not the site I was 'given' to enter these from. ../Doug H 10:16, 7 October 2021 (EDT)

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?64606; I added/fixed info for the last book, Ozone Layer, from the copy on Archive.org, and all other books in this series are also on there (including some Heinemann editions) except, oddly, Why Do We Have Different Seasons? --Username 11:06, 7 October 2021 (EDT)

Thank you for the assistance. I am working on this request to put the Asimov non-fiction in based on one bibliographic web site. My first step is to simply enter what's on that site, with research only into correct titles and nature of Asimov's contribution. Consulting the many other sources of information is a bit of a juggling act, so I wanted a complete list of titles in ISFDB before delving into them. Besides archive.org, there is the OCLC, Hathi, Google books, Open library, a review website and an annotated bibliography. Let me know if you're interested in working on this more systematically. ../Doug H 12:20, 7 October 2021 (EDT)

Thanks for replying so soon. Open Library and Archive.org are connected; I provided OL link to Ozone Layer's page because a lot of books on the Archive aren't really supposed to be there and get taken down because of copyright complaints, so I rarely provide direct links. Also, Google Books is a nightmare to navigate and get info from and times out if you do too many searches, and Hathitrust usually features public-domain books, which I doubt these are. The Archive copies are available for anyone who's a member; I tried becoming a member a few years ago and couldn't even get the book to open in whatever format they use, so cancelled my membership, but if you know what you're doing you can get to pretty much any page in most books by searching for keywords, page numbers, etc. I've done it many times while editing here. I would recommend using their actual copies as a reference because the 1 book I worked on had a different date than the fandom site the previous date came from. Physical always beats virtual. --Username 12:54, 7 October 2021 (EDT)

My archive.org id works fine and I've used it several times to get page counts that partial views don't often give you. ../Doug H 13:34, 7 October 2021 (EDT)

(unindent)It may make a bit more sense to slow down on adding these and actually add a bit more details in each on the first pass. Just saying. While just adding them is appreciated, just parsing the list and creating essentially skeleton entries could have been easily scripted. I hope the plan is to go back and actually flesh out these entries a LOT more although I would have preferred more details to start with and not just copy/paste from the list. Especially because I hope you are cross-referencing somewhere to make sure these books exist and are titled exactly like that. :) Annie 19:24, 8 October 2021 (EDT)

My first depth first attempt ended up generating multiple entries and I spent hours flipping back and forth between the edit screens and sources and when I finally submitted them, I had to spend too long merging / varianting to make me want to do another that way. I figured if I got the first one (base title), I could go through the other sources in an organized fashion, figuring out how many editions/printings and which source went with each and do add pub instead of new nonfiction and replicating title information so they'd merge. As for cross-referencing, one frequent place is OCLC, but I'm looking for a match and not figuring out which ones are duplications (Wentworth Co. vs. Wentworth and Co.) or later printings or alternate titles. Yet. It is on my list as it is really the interesting part. I've been noting the archive.org copies where they match the initial edition. ../Doug H 20:06, 8 October 2021 (EDT) P.S. I'll have to learn how to script things one of these days.

Oh, I understand - I am working on my long suffering project to add the Bulgarian SF books so I know how fun it can be with sources. But you are loading a ton of these very quickly - so I was just saying to slow down and do them in smaller batches so we have less "unverified anywhere but in a random list online" books on the board at the same time. Annie 20:16, 8 October 2021 (EDT)

Dick Sand - Jules Verne

Copy-pasting this here from the main discussion page;

First time coming across this community as I am struggling down a rabbit hole.

I picked up a copy of Jules Verne's Dick Sand at a library sale - however, there is no publishing date on the inside cover, and the only identifying marking is the A.L. Burt Company on the side of the binding, and at the end of the book, A. L Burt's Books For Young People, which is a catalogue of book recommendations. I've been unable to find any copy with the same cover as the one I have on google images.

In going down the rabbit hole of trying to identify this version, I found on A.L. Burt's publishing page, that you had previously verified a copy of another Verne work. Could you offer any assistance? Pictures attached of cover and side binding. [3] [4]

- Helsinki, 10:07 PM, 10/12/2021

The Jules Verne Encyclopedia gives "Reprints appeared by the turn of the century from publishers such as A. L. Burt Company in their Home Library, Cornell Series, and other nicely illustrated editions for boys.". It seems to say it was the Frewer translation. My favourite image site www.julesverne.ca has four different cover images, but not this one. The cover looks as if it might be a generic boys book, rather than specific to Dick Sands. That's all I have to hand. ../Doug H 23:51, 12 October 2021 (EDT)

Thank you so much! I've done a bit more research on my end, and I've reached out to another person who has written a bit on the publishing company itself; more specifically, the Home Library Series by A. L. Burt. However, there's some incongruity there, in that all the Home Library Series books, as far as I can tell, all have jackets, and blank covers with illustrated side bindings. I'll hopefully have some more information soon. Helsinki 08:05, 13 October 2021 (EDT)Helsinki

Mikaël Bourgouin

Your PV (see here) has been varianted to the Mikaël Bourgouin spelling. Please let me know if you have any questions. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:09, 1 November 2021 (EDT)

A little correction. That became possible due to a bit of a bug - the two names cannot exist at the same time safely on the server at this time. So it will appear as "Mikaël Bourgouin" on this book. I think that the publication note showing the spelling from the book is enough as it is but heads up in case you want to change/add more to it. Annie 14:24, 4 November 2021 (EDT)

British Library IDs

Careful when copying these, you want the number without "BLL01" at the start. If you are looking at a record, it is the "System number" and not the "UIN". I fixed it here. Annie 20:58, 21 November 2021 (EST)

Been a while since I used one. Thanks for the reminder. Going depth first on each one is going to take for...ever. At least it will if they're all this bad. I still have about a dozen foreign language ones to parse. ../Doug H 22:08, 21 November 2021 (EST)

Figured - so stopped by with a reminder. Thanks for working on these! You know where I am if you need me for any Central/Eastern European language :) Annie 22:13, 21 November 2021 (EST)

The Feline Wizard / Christopher Stasheff

Would it make sense to change the publication date of [5] to unknown? It seems unlikely the 2nd printing happened in the same month as the 1st. (Which I'm PVing). --GlennMcG 22:07, 22 December 2021 (EST)

Eminently. I've submitted a change. ../Doug H 23:47, 22 December 2021 (EST)

Here be monsters / Christopher Stasheff

Could you check out the discussion @ [6]? Thanks. --GlennMcG 14:46, 28 December 2021 (EST)

Seems you're all coming to my side, so nothing to add. No idea why two or why I picked the one I did. ../Doug H 22:35, 28 December 2021 (EST)

The People of the Wind / general question about OCLC

I wanted to verify The People of the Wind and I'm wondering how fussy one should be about OCLC when verifying. This is a first printing but links to what claims to be a tenth printing. I often find there isn't enough info in worldcat to definitively match an isfdb entry, but I let it go as long as there is nothing contradictory. Thanks for any guidance on this. Fjh 16:13, 1 January 2022 (EST)

Sorry, just saw this - two messages in between checks caught me off guard. I don't do much verifying of OCLC generally, but presume the editions / printings should match. However, your links left me confused. The OCLC is not claiming any particular printing, so should presumably be associated with the earlies 'match'. The link you gave was to the first printing which would be correct. The tenth printing has no reference to the OCLC. I generally don't verify external information when verifying a publication - just confirm that what's in the book and the record match and that additional information is flagged as such (e.g. artist based on signature). It's one editor's view. ../Doug H 14:27, 25 January 2022 (EST)

If I can chime in: What Doug said in general :)

For the specific case: Fjh is right - this OCLC listing (ID 905970) is for the 10th printing ("Tenth printing, "First printing, May, 1973." in the details of the OCLC record) and need to be attached to the 10th printing record here, not to the first. So if someone here would like, find the record for the first, swap it into the first printing record and add this OCLC number to the 10th printing record instead. Annie 14:39, 25 January 2022 (EST)

Didn't scroll far enough to see the 10th. I do however see that there are editions at both the local universities. ../Doug H 15:26, 25 January 2022 (EST)

Multiple pairs of eyes and so on. :) One thing I had learned is that the separate libraries don't always connect their copies to the correct OCLC record IF there are multiples with the same ISBN (as is the case here). So don't get surprised if your local universities have 3rd and 12th printing instead. :) Annie 16:22, 25 January 2022 (EST)

Just saw them at the top of the list, disappear when I click "This edition only" so no idea what they are listed as. I've also learned to chase down specific library copies when OCLC records don't line up sensibly. ../Doug H 16:49, 25 January 2022 (EST)

Forward the Foundation

I'm planning to submit additions to Forward the Foundation. Fjh 14:41, 2 January 2022 (EST)

Thanks for the notice. No concerns. ../Doug H 15:12, 2 January 2022 (EST)

Roadside Picnic

Hi, Doug! There are two thing I'd like to ask on this:

1) Is it possible that the afterword is identical to the commentary, that is: does it tell about the genesis of the novel and the Russian history of publication?

2) The cover photo has been credited to the director Andrei Tarkowski here (and a similar movie still has also been varianted). Maybe you want to do the same for your verified publications? Christian Stonecreek 04:53, 22 January 2022 (EST)

1) Highly likely, that is: yes it does. 2) The movie still you call similar is different, the main character's stance is quite different. I doubt that makes them variants by ISFDB rules, but don't really care. As for crediting to Tarkowski - a) I verified the publication, but did not create it b) there is no mention of that name in the book c) the matching image is from a 1979 movie, but there is no indication it was used as a cover in 1979 and no title notes to indicate why it exists as a parent in a variant or why the producer is considered the artist. It's minefield I don't care to walk into, just for having verified the book. The cover image is (now/soon) mine, so any observations you care to make on that basis are fine, as long they are recorded so they don't suggest that they come from the verification. ../Doug H 12:09, 22 January 2022 (EST)

Okay, thanks! I'll do the varianting for the afterword, and add the artist and a hopefully sufficient note: Tarkowski is credited in the German edition, and that the still(s) is/are from a movie which came out in 1979 is stated with the French edition (but I think, I'll do it tomorrow, at least I need a break). Christian Stonecreek 13:13, 22 January 2022 (EST)

And it's not the same still as in the French edition but as used with the German one, I'd think. Christian Stonecreek 00:28, 23 January 2022 (EST)

Self-approving

Interested in self-aproving - the new and shiny in between step that just allows you to self approve your submissions? If you decide you are ready for it, I would support it. Post over on the Moderator board to start the process :) Annie 18:35, 26 January 2022 (EST)

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'll probably wait for the current frenzy to abate while I rethink my Asimov process (currently geared to staggered entry). ../Doug H 22:23, 26 January 2022 (EST)

National libraries

As you are collecting your own list, here is the list of all the COBISS libraries (it is a South European/Balkans framework and library for libraries - no overall catalog so each is independent but they use the same software and conventions):

• Serbia: https://plus.sr.cobiss.net/opac7/bib/search (we have an external ID for it as well)
• Bulgaria: https://plus.bg.cobiss.net/opac7/bib/search (we have an external ID for it as well)
• Slovenia: https://plus.si.cobiss.net/opac7/bib/search
• Montenegro: https://plus.cg.cobiss.net/opac7/bib/search
• North Macedonia: https://plus.mk.cobiss.net/opac7/bib/search
• Albania: https://plus.al.cobiss.net/opac7/bib/search
• Bosnia: https://plus.bh.cobiss.net/opac7/bib/search
• Herzegovina: https://plus.rs.cobiss.net/opac7/bib/search (don't ask why it is separate from Bosnia - local stuff...) :)
• Kosovo: https://plus.ks.cobiss.net/opac7/bib/search

Some of these have more members than others; all of them have the big national library I think so if you are looking in that language, most books are there. Old Yugoslavian books can be in either of the new states that spawned out. :) PS: Croatia is missing because they had not joined (yet). Annie 13:56, 28 January 2022 (EST)

Cover artist for Shadowkeep ...

... is Victoria Poyser, according to the German edition. You might like to add her. Regards, Christian Stonecreek 07:10, 29 January 2022 (EST) ... and I have produced a variant, ready for merging or importing. Christian Stonecreek 07:12, 29 January 2022 (EST)

I've updated the entry, notified the (currently active) PVs and am hoping that the addition of the Cover artist will automatically select your canonical variant. ../Doug H 10:52, 29 January 2022 (EST)

Vingt mille lieues sous les mers

Hello,

We have a lot of books under Le Livre de Poche and your lonely verified under "Livre de Poche". And the "Le" is visible at least on the cover as with all of them. How about reuniting it so it is not so lonely? The note already says how it is credited exactly but there is no point leaving it out in the cold that way... What do you think? Annie 13:11, 11 February 2022 (EST)

Until such time as the Publisher gets clarified, I bow to the will of the common thought. ../Doug H 16:14, 11 February 2022 (EST)

Well, you cite the front cover and it has "Le" in there on that one so tehnically it should have been "Le" unless it is mentioned without it somewhere inside :) Thanks for fixing! Annie 16:48, 11 February 2022 (EST)

I can re-check the title page, but am quite willing to go with our 'standardization' for now, regardless of what it says inside. ../Doug H 17:15, 11 February 2022 (EST)

Stout 2

I corrected one number and added the last of the cards to William Stout 2 Susan O'Fearna 18:10, 14 February 2022 (EST)

David Starr, Space Ranger

Would you look at your copy of David Starr, Space Ranger and check the title page to see if it actually shows "David Star: Space Ranger" and "by Isaac Asimov writing as Paul French". I have what appears to be the same publication where those are on the title page but the cover shows "david starr, space ranger". If so, this record needs to be changed to look similar to this with the author changed to Paul French, the title changed, additional notes added, etc. After that, it also needs to be unmerged and then merged into title 687117. I'm willing to do any/all of this and PV once all that is done. Thanks! Phil 08:09, 17 February 2022 (EST)

Now I have it out, I will firstly agree with your assessment and proposed action(s). Some nits - the title page has "David Starr" [over] "Space Ranger", the second line in italics which suggests the sub-title colon separator is warranted. I question a number of the existing titles with a comma, but agree that your approach is correct for this publication. For content, there is an Introduction on page [7], signed "Isaac Asimov" and dated November 1970, although the copyright is 1971 and referred to as a foreword. The first printing of November 1971 suggests that 1971-11-00 is correct. The artist credit is based on a signature on the cover, as noted in the first printing (with a comma). Do I need to pull the other five in the series out when I put this one away? ../Doug H 08:32, 17 February 2022 (EST)

I've contacted Nihonjoe about the rest of the series since he's the only active PV for them so you don't need to pull them out for me. I agree about the "Introduction" and think I should import [7] to include it in this pub. Shall I go ahead and make the changes? Phil 11:36, 17 February 2022 (EST)

Better thee than me. ../Doug H 14:09, 17 February 2022 (EST)

Re: The Chemicals of Life: Enzymes · Vitamins · Hormones

I'll fix the erroneous template - an artifact of my collating various sources. I could cancel, fix and re-submit but all the external entries would have to be re-typed. Looking forward to self-administration. Maybe just leave this one? ../Doug H 11:20, 21 February 2022 (EST)

Self-approver flag set

The self-approver flag has been set on your ISFDB account. Congratulations!

From now on, creating a submission will take you to the "Approve/Reject" Web page which will let you approve your own submissions. Ahasuerus 11:51, 24 February 2022 (EST)

To all and sundry who are responsible, I thank you. I've not yet chosen a name for my super-persona, although I'm leaning towards Topaxi. :-) ../Doug H 12:21, 24 February 2022 (EST)

I have some bad news for you - you are stuck with your original name ;) Have fun - and you know where everyone is if you ever need assistance! :) Annie 13:05, 24 February 2022 (EST)

In all my other ISFDB dealings, I'm still Holmesd, but when I push that approve button --- Topaxi !! ../Doug H 13:30, 24 February 2022 (EST)

As long as that persona can spot the typos of all your other personas, welcome to the fun to him as well. ;) Annie 14:14, 24 February 2022 (EST)

Hi, Doug! Congratulations! (And have fun with the new possibilities!) Christian Stonecreek 13:26, 24 February 2022 (EST)

MacVicar Cover

http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Image:SCRTFTHLST1959.jpg; This is the wrong cover, isn't it? --Username 00:02, 25 February 2022 (EST)

'Tis and thanks to self-approval, already fixed. ../Doug H 08:17, 25 February 2022 (EST)

Zoboa

For Zoboa, would you mind if I change the page count to [8]+430 and add the title for the unsigned maps on pages [6]-[8] before I PV? Phil 07:42, 9 March 2022 (EST)

Sounds reasonable. ../Doug H 07:59, 9 March 2022 (EST)

Day of the Triffids Artist.

For Day of the Triffids I imported the Richard Powers credit from the first Crest edition. MOHearn 09:34, 30 March 2022 (EDT)

Appreciate the effort, but to be clear: The first Crest edition does not have this cover, the second Crest edition, is the first with the illustration, is credited to Richard Powers, but does not quote a source, but the third Crest edition does credit Powers in the Notes. I've added it to the Title record for the COVERART. ../Doug H 12:02, 30 March 2022 (EDT)

The Land That Time Forgot

Hi, You seem to have added the wrong cover artist for this edition. Please compare to this, which has the correct artist (George Akimoto). (This is the Segrelles-covered edition.) Thanks! Horzel 19:14, 9 April 2022 (EDT)

You are correct, and hopefully now the entry is as well. The source has Segelles listed at the end of this entry, but as a separator and I goofed. Thanks for the pointer. ../Doug H 19:33, 9 April 2022 (EDT)

The Waif of the Cynthia

Happy New Year, 2021 and 2022!
Seaside Library Pocket Edition #659 P761882 is not one you have PVerified. Yet I report:
Moments ago I submitted update to use the full publisher name George Munro, and revised your notes to specify that the stated sources give only the short name "Munro". (submission)

By the way, your link jv.gilead.org.il now returns Internal Server Error. --Pwendt|talk 21:14, 11 April 2022 (EDT)

No problem. Another site has mirrored gilead, just need to prefix with "julesverne.ca/". Also, they have images of the cover and the price is really 20 cents. I'm posting here so I'll remember to put this in after your submission is processed. ../Doug H 22:21, 11 April 2022 (EDT)

Allan Quatermain [O] by Haggard and La Motte Fouqué

It seems to me your 6th and final paragraph should be the 3rd par, following "1927." If I understand correctly, pages [1]-266 carry the headers "Allan Quatermain" (?beginning p4 with the page numbering) and second series pages [93]-147 carry the headers "The Two Captains" (?beginning p96 with the second series page numbering). Except front matter before first p[1] and the Burt Catalogue as back matter, those are all the printed leaves in the book, 133+28 of them.

We should have a name for such books, akin to dos-a-dos. I have seen a few: full title page identifies only the first and foremost of contents; Surprise! contents follow their own interior half-title page(s). Some libraries miss the Surprise!, and may report simply 147 pages too. Re the pagination, Burt maybe issued a La Motte Fouqué collection in which "The Two Captains" text spans p[95]-147.

Did you read "Authorities" by "The writer of "Allan Quatermain." (probably missing one quotation mark)? Perhaps it should entered as ESSAY content. (If you send me its lead sentence, I will carry it sometimes and maybe once when I visit the big library, look for it in Allan Quatermain eds.) --Pwendt|talk 17:47, 30 April 2022 (EDT)

I've touched up the text along the lines you suggested. I've chosen to leave it as an acknowledgement of sources rather than an essay, figuring the notes cover it well enough. As for "Authorities", I've emailed the entire contents to you. ../Doug H 19:59, 30 April 2022 (EDT)

Understanding Physics

This and this appear to be the exact same omnibus. Am I missing something? Based on the notes, it seems like the only reason they are separate is to record the two dates? If so, that is not a valid use case. Titles are dated based on their first appearance only. The Barnes and Nobles data can be captured in the title notes or (the best approach) stub records created for the first printings of each edition. -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:16, 25 June 2022 (EDT)

Out of Time's Abyss

According to The British Edgar Rice Burroughs Society facebook page and this website cover art for this i Dave Pether. --Mavmaramis 13:36, 6 July 2022 (EDT)

Quote the source in the update and I'll be happy. ../Doug H 16:12, 6 July 2022 (EDT)

The Raven Ring

Hi. For 45918 which I have just PVed, I was confused at the publication date which is listed in my copy as August 1995 whilst the record says December 1995. Checking the edit history, I see that User:Chris_J got this from locus1. Are you happy if I add the following notes:

• Publication month from locus1
• Stated "First mass market edition: August 1995"
• First printing by numberline

--AliHarlow 05:26, 8 July 2022 (EDT)

I would be happy as it matches my copy. My only sorrow is that I missed it when I verified it and added the image. Thanks. ../Doug H 17:24, 8 July 2022 (EDT)

The Once and Future King

Cover artist for this is William Hatherell. It's titled The Rescue of Guinevere and dated 1910. See wikipedia. --Mavmaramis 11:55, 26 July 2022 (EDT)

Asimov's Opus 100, Opus 200, Opus 300

There appear to be duplicate titles for these three collections with one being marked as a COLLECTION and the other NONFICTION. Are the following title pairs the same?

• 38033 & 2928818
• 39451 & 2928819
• 2905552 & 2928820

The initial Houghton Mifflin publications for each title pair seem the same except for their date. Also, note that according to Wikipedia these collections contain a mixture of fiction and nonfiction (as well as SF and non-genre works) by Asimov. --Riselka 14:32, 27 July 2022 (EDT)

Out of town, will check next week. ../Doug H 06:53, 2 August 2022 (EDT)

I suspect these pairs are identical and I will be removing the three I added. However, based on the contents, I believe these should be NONFICTION. I'll bring it up on the Community Forum. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. ../Doug H 12:33, 10 August 2022 (EDT)

The Lost Continent

According to a post on the The British Edgar Rice Burroughs Society Facebook page the cover artist for this is Bob Fowke. --Mavmaramis 13:25, 2 August 2022 (EDT)

The Land of Hidden Men

Cover art for this is Bob Fowke according to listings I've seen on Biblio and Advanced Book Exchange. --Mavmaramis 13:30, 2 August 2022 (EDT)

Times Without Number

Doug, I approved the change in publisher here, but not because of the submitter's reason. I found a scanned copy in the internet archive which shows 'Hamlyn Paperbacks' on the title page. I attached the link to the publication record. John Scifibones 15:11, 27 August 2022 (EDT)

It was transient, so cannot check my copy. History shows no change to publisher so no idea what it was originally. Can you recall - seems something so obvious should have been there from the beginning. Bluesman and I seem to be the prime source of Canadian editions/printings, I'm just a bit concerned I wasn't notified of such a basic change. ../Doug H 12:19, 28 August 2022 (EDT)

The publisher was previously 'Hamlyn'. I counseled the editor to seek agreement with such changes in the future. I didn't think you would mind the change since I found the archive scan and your transient verification was so far in the past. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Do you agree with the change? John Scifibones 17:44, 28 August 2022 (EDT)

Back then, there were attempts to standardize publishers, so even if/though it said 'Hamlyn Paperbacks', I could see using simply 'Hamlyn', so find this to be perfectly reasonable. If it had been changed from "Canadian Press", I'd have expected questions. So, all is good. Thanks for chatting. ../Doug H 22:25, 28 August 2022 (EDT)