User talk:ElectricStarboard

Welcome!

Hello, ElectricStarboard, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• Help pages
• Field-by-field guide to entering new publications into the database
• Help:Getting Started
• What the ISFDB Wiki is for
• FAQ
• Wiki editing help - Tips on how to use the wiki-specific features when editing wiki pages.
• Wiki Conventions - How things are usually done on this wiki.
• Help:How to upload images to the ISFDB wiki

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:15, 25 June 2022 (EDT)

The World's Finest Mystery and Crime Stories: Fourth Annual Collection

Regarding this submission: Are these stories speculative fiction (science fiction, fantasy, or supernatural horror)? Please see our Project Scope for details on what we included. The only non-speculative fiction we would include would be by well known genre authors. So the anthology itself is included because of Gorman and Greenberg and the Wilhelm story would also be eligible on that basis even if not speculative fiction. But the other authors' stories would need to be speculative fiction to be listed. Please let me know and I will update the submission. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:15, 25 June 2022 (EDT)

Based on [1], [2], & [3], it looks like you are adding all the contents to this anthology series. Please let me know (by responding here) which stories are speculative and I will update the anthologies. Or you may cancel your existing edits and resubmit with just the eligible works. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:50, 25 June 2022 (EDT)

Thanks JLaTondre - you are correct, overall these stories are not speculative fiction (just straight mystery/crime) and the edit should not be published. Thank you for the information!I will resubmit with just the speculative fiction stories. ElectricStarboard 09:00, 25 June 2022 (EDT)

Submissions have been rejected. Sorry you had to do extra work. We appreciate your understanding. ISFDB has some conventions that need learning, but everything should be in the help links in the welcome message above. We hope you will continue to contribute. And please let us know if you have any questions (ISFDB:Help desk is a good resource for asking). -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:09, 25 June 2022 (EDT)

The Archive.org copy of this anthology says on the copyright acknowledgments page that Wilhelm's story is from EQMM, September/October 2002; is there a reason why it was entered with a 1996 date? The stories are all from 2002; it's a best-of-the-year book. EDIT: I see that this editor entered correct 2002 date but moderator made a later title merge, so that might be the problem. --Username 10:35, 25 June 2022 (EDT)

Yes, it was merged to the existing record from Nebula Awards Showcase 2010. You are welcome to ask the verifiers of that pub about the date. It wouldn't be the first time a magazine re-printed a story and a Best Of anthology missed that. It could also be a database error. -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:49, 25 June 2022 (EDT)

It seems Nowickj entered the contents many years ago, and I assumed he'd be long-gone, but after not answering anything since 2019 he did so back in March, so I left him a note. However, the Nebula anthology is on Archive.org and DOES say 1996, so...? --Username 11:15, 25 June 2022 (EDT)

Import existing titles

All your submissions are creating duplicate COVERART title records. When the title already exists, import it using 'Option 2', explained here. If you have any questions, ask. I'm glad you enjoy participating. John Scifibones 09:10, 5 July 2022 (EDT)

Thank you John Scifibones - this is very helpful! When importing data from a title variant into another via Option 2, how do you ensure/verify that only the cover artist is being copied? I want to ensure that I understand the right way to copy the intended data and do not overwrite anything else. Thanks again! ElectricStarboard 15:05, 5 July 2022 (EDT)

Use the edit button for a given thread rather than the edit on the top of the page when responding. It alerts everyone what thread you are responding to. I have this submission on hold to illustrated how you should import it.

1. You can see that this publication has the same artwork.
2. Clicking the cover title brings up the COVERART title record. On the top right you will see Title Record # 1127854. (Make a note of this number)
3. Return to here and select Import Content from the Editing Tools on the left side of the screen.
4. Under option 2, enter the title record number from step two. Select import title.
5. You will see the title that will be imported. If you are satisfied, submit, if not back up and make any necessary correction.

After you submit this edit, go ahead and cancel the submission I have on hold. It will no longer be necessary. John Scifibones 19:02, 5 July 2022 (EDT)

Thank you John Scifibones - I followed your steps to make the edit and it worked perfectly. I appreciate you taking the time to assist me with this! I will go through my pending edits and resubmit via this process where applicable and cancel the original submissions. ElectricStarboard 20:15, 5 July 2022 (EDT)

Edit approved. I'm glad to help. John Scifibones 20:27, 5 July 2022 (EDT)

The Accursed

Regarding this submission:

1. The cover artist field is only for the artist and not the designer. There is a long standing request for a cover designer field, but until that is implemented, the designer is recorded only in the pub notes.
2. You do not have to enter <br> to create new lines. Within the notes fields, the software will handle line breaks fine. This wasn't always the case so you may see some older records with them, but we remove them now if we make other edits to the record.

Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:43, 10 July 2022 (EDT)

Thank you JLaTondre - noted! ElectricStarboard 08:45, 10 July 2022 (EDT)

Closed at Dusk

Concerning your submission: I checked quite a number of reviews, but couldn't find any mention of actual ghosts - ghost stories yes, but that doesn't make the book eligible for inclusion. We'd need actual supernatural or other speculative-fiction events to take place for it to be added. Can you provide evidence for your statement that there's a ghost subplot going on in the story? Thanks! MagicUnk 08:28, 19 July 2022 (EDT)

Thanks MagicUnk - I think you are right and this is more suspense/thriller with some horror elements that are not really speculative-fiction. I will cancel the submission. I appreciate your input! ElectricStarboard 10:23, 2 August 2022 (EDT)

The Visionary...

Is there a particular reason why you uploaded the cover image to the dos-a-dos publication record #101081, but instead used it on the hc edition (publication record #119001) in your edit? Can you explain what you wanted to do exactly? Thanks! MagicUnk 08:34, 19 July 2022 (EDT)

Thanks for catching this MagicUnk - I think I mistakenly uploaded the cover image to the wrong publication. Is there a way that I can fix this? Apologies! ElectricStarboard 10:20, 2 August 2022 (EDT)

Cancel your submission and re-submit, but now with the correct image URL. Regards, MagicUnk 04:40, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

Band of Gypsys

Hello again. Concerning your submission here, we do not add frontpiece (I'm assuming you mean frontispiece?) as title for interior art. Instead, we are using the book's actual title. I've change this for you accordingly, and added a note clarifiying the interior art is the frontispiece, and that the artist was obtained from the copyright page.
Also, do make it a practice to systematically add the source of information you're adding or updating to the Note field. In this case, add the location where you got the copyright page from, or - if you happen to own the book itself - do consider primary verifying - PVing a book confirms that the information is as it's on or in the book you own. Regards, MagicUnk 08:44, 19 July 2022 (EDT)

Thank you MagicUnk - that makes sense about the frontispiece. Thank you for adding a note to the submission and for the attribution/verification tips! ElectricStarboard 13:04, 23 July 2022 (EDT)

Beauty

Hi. I think your proposed addition of Beauty duplicates this, in which case you should cancel your submission and add appropriate details to that existing record. Let me know if you disagree (just reply here).

A side note about image URLs. It's not called out very well in Help:Screen:EditPub#Image_URL (see the third bullet under Amazon), but when we use image URLs from Amazon, we strip out formatting directives they embed in the URL. So where you found:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51zYXZ93+4L._SX334_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

that "._SX334_BO1,204,203,200_" (everything from the next-to-last period up to the final ".jpg") should be removed, using this:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51zYXZ93+4L.jpg

instead. In this case, the visual effect is very small, but sometimes it is much more dramatic. --MartyD 11:51, 23 July 2022 (EDT)

Thank you MartyD! The Beauty submission was indeed a duplicate. I cancelled it and added the data to the existing publication. Thank you for the tip about image URL formatting as well! ElectricStarboard 12:58, 23 July 2022 (EDT)

The Great Alta Saga

Thanks for adding The Great Alta Saga. From the Pages help section - 'For ebooks, do not enter in this field the number of pages. The estimated number given by the publisher, or some sites may be specified in the "Notes" field.' I corrected this one, please correct others as appropriate. Remember to import the content titles. thanks John Scifibones 17:15, 23 July 2022 (EDT)

Thank you John Scifibones - my submissions with this issue have been corrected and resubmitted. I appreciate the advice! ElectricStarboard 06:33, 25 July 2022 (EDT)

The Silicon Mage and Stranger at the Wedding ebooks

Hi. I think your submission for the Open Road Integrated Media ebook edition of The Silicon Mage duplicates this. I realize the ISBNs are different, but Google on the ISBN from the existing record finds no hits. I also noticed Amazon does not know the ISBN you provided in your submission. I don't have any argument with it -- B&N and Kobo know it -- but I am wondering where did you find it on Amazon? If you can still find the page, what is the ASIN? Also, the cover on all three sites is different from the cover in the clone. I did find this showing that ISBN with the other cover, so I am guessing that's the original and it has since been replaced by a newer cover. --MartyD 07:32, 2 August 2022 (EDT)

Same situation and questions about your Stranger at the Wedding submission and this. --MartyD 08:05, 2 August 2022 (EDT)

Thanks MartyD - both ISBNs for the submissions are taken directly from the eBook copyright pages. The submission covers also match the covers of the eBooks (not the current Amazon covers). As you mentioned, the eBook ISBNs are referenced on B&N/Kobo/Google Books but not the seemingly matching Amazon eBook with the same publisher/date that is already being used for the eBook publication with an alternate ISBN (ex. B004TC14A0 is already part of The Silicon Mage). In cases like this with existing publications that seem identical except for the ISBN and it is unclear which publication the ASIN is tied to, should the alternate ISBN be added as a separate publication (as done in these cases) or be added to the notes of the existing publication? I appreciate your help with these submissions! ElectricStarboard 10:17, 2 August 2022 (EDT)

Ok, we will keep both sets. I will add a note to the others about not being able to find any evidence of the ISBNs. --MartyD 15:07, 3 August 2022 (EDT)

The Dog Said Bow-Wow

Hello, concerning your submission, the information I could find on Amazon (LookInside) was for the paperback edition - there is no information I could find for the ebook version but on Goodreads here. So, I've accepted your submission, but updated the notes to clarify the information came from Amazon's Lookinside for the tp edition. Thanks MagicUnk 04:29, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

Against the Tide of Years

Concerning this submission. Can you tell me why you didn't provide the publication date and ASIN from Amazon.com? Generally speaking, always provide the ASIN if you can. Thanks MagicUnk 04:39, 4 August 2022 (EDT)
Same for this one. MagicUnk 04:41, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

Hi MagicUnk - those publications were created directly from eBooks. I will see if I can find matching publications on Amazon. Thanks! ElectricStarboard 15:50, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

A Swiftly Tilting Planet

This one confuses me as well. I can't find any evidence that there was an ebook edition published by Square Fish in May 2007. The information you have in the notes seem to me to relate to the paperback edition, not the ebook one. Goodreads has only paperback editions for Square Fish. Can you clarify where you got this information for the ebook edition from? Thanks MagicUnk 05:05, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

Your transient verifications

Question to be sure: do you have the actual ebooks on your computer for which you are transiently verifying? Or rather, do you use Amazon's LookInside (or another source) to submit your edits? If it's the latter, you should not transiently verify, as Amazon as a rule is unreliable. You can continue to submit of course, but then do add a note that your source is Amazon. Regards, MagicUnk 11:56, 5 August 2022 (EDT)

Hi MagicUnk - I have the actual eBook on my computer when transiently verifying (I choose transient because I will not have the book permanently). Thanks for checking! ElectricStarboard 12:11, 5 August 2022 (EDT)

Thanks for the confirmation! I was uncertain, as a lot of the info you're providing I couldn't find online. I'll go back in and approve your submissions :) I may have some more questions - if I do, I'll let you know (if you could answer my questions above as well?). Regards, MagicUnk 15:05, 5 August 2022 (EDT)

I've looked at a couple, and approved them - for some I couldn't reconcile the publication date with Goodreads, so I went and added the Goodreads ID and the corresponding first publication date of the ebook (you'll find them in your changed primary verifications list). Where did you get your dates from? First publication date (and covers at that time) can be tricky for ebooks. Thanks, MagicUnk 16:03, 5 August 2022 (EDT)

Cover images

When cloning the tp (or any format) to create an ebook (or any differing format) please change the link to point at the correct image. Thanks, John Scifibones 12:42, 12 August 2022 (EDT)

In the Village Where Brightwine Flows

This submission duplicates this publication. You can edit and verify the existing record. John Scifibones 13:47, 12 August 2022 (EDT)

Legend ebook dating

Hi. Sorry about the belated attention to your submissions. For your Legend ebook submission, there are a couple of issues around the details and the date. (a) It's an ebook and (b) it has a 13-digit ISBN, both of which are incongruous with a 1996 publication date. 13-digit ISBNs were not used before 2005, and while the first ebooks came out in 1998, it would be rare to have one published before the 2000s. Taking all of that together, I think we can't tell what the publication date for this is from the information in the ebook. The 1996 copyright is tied to the original hardcover publication. I noticed both Simon and Schuster and Amazon date this ebook edition July 14, 1999. I'm mildly skeptical about even that, but it is what the publisher says, and maybe it was originally digitized in a format other than Kindle's. So I am going to accept the submission but change the date to 1999-07-14 and add a note about the source of that date. --MartyD 11:02, 13 August 2022 (EDT)

The ASIN field

Hello,

When the ASIN is the same as ISBN10 (which is the usual case for paper book with ISBNs starting with 978, we do not record the value as an ASIN as we already have it as an ISBN and the link on the left side to Amazon uses it. The easiest way to think of it is: if the ASIN does not start with B, we probably don't want it in the ASIN field. The only exception is when the book does not carry an ISBN but Amazon did assign a numerical only ASIN (usually coming from an older ISBN). I removed the ASIN here. I also rewrote the note a bit to indicate that this was an older record. :) Thanks! Annie 17:39, 17 August 2022 (EDT)

Dracula

I approved your submission creating the Dracula ebook. You have an LCCN (20041007460) in an external link field which does not work. Always test the links you provide. This one looks a little fishy, where did it come from? John Scifibones 16:13, 19 August 2022 (EDT)

ISSN

Hi. Quick note: ISSN is not a catalog ID. It's an identifier for the entire magazine. Regards, MagicUnk 15:21, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Hi MagicUnk - thank you for letting me know! I will add it to the notes field going forward! ElectricStarboard 15:25, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Changing publisher

Hi again. I've approved a couple of edits that changes the publisher. However, this needs to be discussed, and agreed upon, by the other Primary Verifiers - so, please head over to their talk page, and ask. Thanks! MagicUnk 15:33, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Thanks MagicUnk - will do! Do publisher changes only need to be discussed if the title has primary verification? What about publishers that do not meet publisher naming conventions like those in Publisher Name Clean Up? Thank you so much for your assistance! ElectricStarboard 15:47, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Yes, if a pub is PV'd, then it's good practice (and courteous) to check in with those PV's that are active. If no PV (for any of the publications), then you have some flexibility in naming publishers, for as long as publisher naming convention is adhered to. And that cleanup project is -very- old. I'm not really familiar with it either, so don't think you should look to much into that. Unless, of course, you'd like to start a discussion. By all means, do head over to the Community Portal if that would be the case. Regards, MagicUnk 15:54, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Oh, and best to stick to what's actually written in the book on the copyright page; minor variations can be standardized, of course. Also, do search for publisher on a keyword - more often than not you'll find multiple variants of the same publisher. If that's the case, cleanup may have to happen (or publishers merged - ask a moderator to do that for you if you would encounter such a case - much easier that way) MagicUnk 15:57, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Branches vs. Scholastic

Hi once again. You have a bunch of edits that changes Scholastic into Branches / Scholastic. However, looking at the copyright page (LookInside) of a few of these publications, I notice that it always says "Published by Scholastic Inc." Branches seems to me a publication series, not an imprint. So, can you either cancel these submissions (and submit corrections for those that have already been updated to Branches/Scholastic). Or alternatively, provide proof that Branches -IS- an imprint of Scholastic. Thanks! MagicUnk 15:50, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Hi MagicUnk thanks for reaching out about this - I was going off of the existing Branches / Scholastic publisher that states they are classified as a publisher. If this does not apply I can certainly cancel those submissions until I or primary verifiers can check the imprint page. Let me know the best course of action! ElectricStarboard 15:55, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

I think the statement "Because of how it is credited on the title pages, Branches / Scholastic is currently classified as a publisher." is wrong. Yes, Branches is mentioned, and directly below it, Scholastic. But that doesn't mean Branches should be considered an imprint/publisher. I would rather rely on the copyright page, and decide off of that info for determining the publisher. Since there are quite a few pub records with the Branches / Scholastic publisher, you would want to ask a question at the Help Desk, or better yet, go to the Community Portal and ask it over there and ask if there's any consensus as to what it would have to be (and why). MagicUnk 03:20, 26 August 2022 (EDT)

Magia lui Daja

I approved your submission to add this publication. However, I have a few comments.

• Transliterated Title field. Please read the help section. Note the statement 'This field is not to be used to enter English translations, which can be added to Notes if known.'
• When citing Amazon as the source, please specify which one you used, Amazon, it, Amazon.pl, etc. I assumed .com but you can change it if not correct.
• Try to use an additional source for missing fields. For a translation, the translator is important. Here I used Worldcat for translator, pages, and date

Always feel free to ask questions, John Scifibones 10:51, 27 August 2022 (EDT)

Additional comments

• Pay closer attention to format. Here is the help section. Watch out for tp vs pb in particular.
• Be careful with '1st edition' or similar statements. For example: How can a 2011 Polish translation of an English language book originally published in 1998 be a first edition? Possibly a 'First Polish edition'; be able to back up the claim. John Scifibones 12:27, 27 August 2022 (EDT)

Thank you so much John Scifibones - I really appreciate these tips and will keep them in mind going forward. I will go back through the non-English publications/titles I added and see what can be updated per your advice. ElectricStarboard 12:31, 27 August 2022 (EDT)

I have updated some already. Most of the 'Circle of Magic (Tamora Pierce)' series. John Scifibones 12:37, 27 August 2022 (EDT)

Times Without Number

Please do not make changes to a significant field of a verified publication without first consulting the verifier(s). I approved this submission but not because of your note to moderator. I accepted the change because I found a scanned copy in the archive allowing me to see the title page. I notified the active PV of the change. Thanks, John Scifibones 15:20, 27 August 2022 (EDT)

Lackington's, Spring 2016

I rejected this submission for two reasons.

1. The current title is correct per standards.
2. The ISSN is for the magazine, not any individual issue. As such it goes in the series record.

Resubmit your edit adding the uploaded cover, the note 'Issue 10', and removing the ISSN note and I'll approve it. Ask if anything is unclear, John Scifibones 15:54, 27 August 2022 (EDT)

Duplicate Content Records

Please remember that when you type the same content into multiple publications, you are creating duplicate records. You need to either:

• Import the contents instead of typing them: To do this, enter the content once and then once approved, use the "Import Content" option on the other publications and use Option 2 on the import screen to enter the IDs of the contents. This is the preferred way.
• Merge the contents: If you are going to type them in, once the pub edits are approved, you need to go back and use the "Check for Duplicate Titles" option on one of the publication pages and merge the duplicate records.

See here for duplicated records associated with The Parent Agency publications that need to be merged. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:53, 27 August 2022 (EDT)

Changes to verified publications

I'm holding the following submissions to change the publisher in primary verified publications.

• The Patchwork Girl, pv is a moderator
• TekWar, pv by a very active editor
• The Patchwork Girl, 1 pv
• Neptune's Brood, 2 pv's vy very active editors
• Teckla, pv by a very active editor
• The Dracula Tape, pv by a very active editor
• Worldmaker, 3 pv's 1 is very active
• Freehold, 4 pv's 2 are veryactive
• Galactic Warriors, 4 pv's 1 moderator and 2 very active editors

I don't see any attempt to contact the pv's and seek concurrence for the changes. Why does this matter? When a publication has been verified, it means the verifier has examined the publication and the data in our record is accurate. If the data is changed without agreement, the pv no longer has meaning. As for the actual changes, you should always provide the resource you used to determine the change. A note to moderator "Ace Science Fiction Books" hardly explains a change from 'Ace Books' to 'Ace Science Fiction Books'. I'll monitor the conversations as you reach out to the various pv's. Your submissions will be approved or rejected as appropriate. I appreciate your enthusiasm, that's why I've taken the time to explain. John Scifibones 09:10, 30 August 2022 (EDT)

I did mention this exact same in this message - please do reach out to the PV's of the publication records you want to update. You may need to reach a consensus on how to treat the publisher of these Ace pub records (I'm not familiar with them, but to me "Ace Science Fiction Books" is not a publisher nor imprint - so please discuss with the community) Thanks! MagicUnk 10:45, 30 August 2022 (EDT)

MagicUnk, I saw the thread you're referring to. The point has also been stressed in rejection reasons by another mod. As far as Ace Books is concerned, I don't know what there is to discuss. I looked at the title page on a couple of the above publications and the publisher is "Ace Books". This thread was my attempt to spur future communication.

Hi MagicUnk and John Scifibones - apologies and thanks for reaching out about this! I missed those submissions when cancelling my Ace publisher/series submissions - they are now cancelled until a broader discussion about Ace imprints can take place. Thanks again! ElectricStarboard 10:56, 30 August 2022 (EDT)

Comment inserted above. John Scifibones 11:17, 30 August 2022 (EDT)

Provide more information

Hi. Just an FYI - it is not easy to review and approve your submission because you do not provide sufficient information as to why you are adding or updating data. Please be more specific, either in the Note or Note to moderators fields. For example,

• you have a whole bunch of imports of INTERIORART records into publications from different publishers. For example, Moominland Midwinter submissions [4] and [5] - how certain are you that the INTERIORART records between the different editions is exactly the same??? If it isn't you should not import one single INTERIORART record into multiple publication records. "I assume so" is not good enough of a reason to do that - so, when in doubt, don't submit an update like these. We need to be as certain as possible that the data is correct. For that, we need evidence, which can either be a PV'd record, or a 'reliable' secondary source, or a detailed explanation in the Notes field of why the data that's been added (in this case INTERIORART record) is correct.
• several of your submissions contain the statement 'Additional data from Amazon.com on yyyymmdd', but you never state ' which ' additional data. This makes it impossible to trace back to the origin of the data that's been entered. So, please, going forward, be specific and precise.

You may have noticed that your submissions do not get approved quickly. The reason why is above - please take these recommendations at heart, and provide as much detailed information as possible. You'll notice that your submissions will be processed much, much faster. Thanks! MagicUnk 08:32, 31 August 2022 (EDT)

Translator info

Hi. Heads-up, as you will have to go in again and update the Moomin titles to move translator information from synopsis to note field - example here (or add missing translator info). MagicUnk 09:11, 1 September 2022 (EDT)

Hi MagicUnk - thank you for the heads up, I will move the translators to the notes where needed and try to find the missing translators! ElectricStarboard 10:42, 1 September 2022 (EDT)

Icelandic Moomin stories

Hi. I notice that you are adding Icelandic variants to the Swedish original. However, the better course of action is to enter the Icelandic publications, and then variant the title to the original. If you do it the other way around, you'd have to add the publication record afterwards (or merge if you do a new publication record). (and not entirely sure, but I seem to remember that if you create a title record without corresponding publication record, the title record will be removed overnight as there's no parent pub record) Regards, MagicUnk 10:12, 2 September 2022 (EDT)

Just to confirm on the last part: The removal is not automatic but there is a cleanup report and titles without publications or variants attached to them can (and often will) be removed overnight indeed. In addition, we would rather have an unconnected publication than an empty title (in case you never get back to them) - tracking down the publication is harder (especially in a not so common language) than just connecting the titles. So using AddVariant is not the best way to deal with variants - instead the usage of NewPub and then MakeVariant is the vastly preferred method. Annie 13:32, 2 September 2022 (EDT)

Thank you MagicUnk and Annie - I removed the empty variant titles and resubmitted them as new publications to be merged upon approval! ElectricStarboard 13:35, 2 September 2022 (EDT)

Varianted, not merged :) You merge when it is the same title (same language, title, author name and text (minor changes/edits here are allowed)), you variant for differences in any of these (so translations, renamed stories, pseudonyms and weird author names all require a variant). It does not matter how you call it really BUT if you are looking for the menu, looking for merge will get you in the wrong place so figured I will mention the difference in the terms. :) Annie 14:06, 2 September 2022 (EDT)

Thanks Annie - I meant add as a variant! :) ElectricStarboard 14:08, 2 September 2022 (EDT)

Duplicate Muminvaters wild bewegte Jugend?

Hi, I think the proposed addition in this submission duplicates this. If you disagree, let me know. I have been known to overlook important details in the past. :-) Otherwise, incorporate any additional information into the existing record(s) and cancel the submission when you no longer need it for reference. Thanks. --MartyD 12:20, 4 September 2022 (EDT)

Hi. Did you get a chance to look at this? I still have it on hold. If you think it should go through, let me know. Thanks. --MartyD (talk) 08:32, 8 October 2022 (EDT)

Apologies for the delay - you are right, these are duplicated! Thanks MartyD! ElectricStarboard (talk) 09:18, 8 October 2022 (EDT)

Back Cover Images

Regarding this submission: Back cover images do not go into the cover field. They are entered as interior art with "bc" as the page number. See "Artwork" under Template:TitleFields:Title. I will notify the approving moderator so they are aware of the standards as well. I will also fix the publication. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 13:44, 17 September 2022 (EDT)

Thank you JLaTondre - that makes sense! I will make sure to reference back cover art in as such going forward. ElectricStarboard (talk) 16:32, 19 September 2022 (EDT)

The Private Life of Helen of Troy

Regarding this submission: This does not seem to be speculative fiction based on the Wikipedia summary and the actual text. I only skimmed the text, but while it references the God's as real, it does not seem to contain any appearances by them or other speculative fiction events. Did I miss something? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:09, 18 September 2022 (EDT)

I think you are right JLaTondre - upon first glance I thought this was speculative fiction but it looks like it is actually historical fiction with references to Greek mythology/Helen of Troy. I will cancel the submission. ElectricStarboard (talk) 16:37, 19 September 2022 (EDT)

Interior Artowork

Please take care when varianting interior artwork. I have had to reject several submissions. Variants are for the same artwork under a different title or artist credits.

• If there are duplicate records (same title & credit), they should be merged instead. You submitted variants for a couple of works that should have been merged with other existing records instead.
• Interior art records can either be for a single artwork or for all the artwork in a book. If the record is for all the artwork in a book, then only other records that contain all the same images should be varianted / merged to that record. Here you were varianting a single image to a record for 50 images.
• The credits must be the same artist & the same art. If the artwork has been redone by someone, it is no longer the same art and should not be varianted (like this case).

Thanks.-- JLaTondre (talk) 11:59, 18 September 2022 (EDT)

Thank you so much JLaTondre - I will keep this in mind going forward. I appreciate your help! I will review my pending submissions and correct any that have these issues. ElectricStarboard (talk) 16:42, 19 September 2022 (EDT)

Place of birth

Hi, we record the place of birth as per date of birth, meaning no Germany before 1871, nor Italy before 1861. Antwerp in 1644 is in the Spanish Netherlands, as there is no Belgium until 1830, etc.--Dirk P Broer (talk) 19:29, 18 September 2022 (EDT)

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

This record is for ALL the interior work inside of the book. this one is for probably a part of it - I doubt they printed all of it. While we variant artwork when it is part of a whole, we usually don't variant these overarching "all art in one record" to be a parent for every single separate art item or we will end up varianting half the work of some artists into a single parent when they publish an art book and someone adds it as a single value. Let me know if you have any questions/concerns or if you think that the reprint actually contained the complete set of art. Annie (talk) 14:20, 21 September 2022 (EDT)

Thank you Annie - that makes sense! ElectricStarboard (talk) 08:32, 22 September 2022 (EDT)

Varianting Alice again

About this one: When you have the same art (for our definition of same - colors, parts and so on) and the author/artist, title, language and art type match, we merge, we do not variant. If the art is different we do NOT variant - which means that if we are not sure, we do not variant. The basic rule is that if the artist, title and language match, either you merge or you leave them alone - you need one of the 3 to be different to have a variant situation within the same type (for coverart/interior art we also variant if the type differs but it is a special case). Annie (talk) 12:32, 22 September 2022 (EDT)

Same for this one (and any others after that I find - I will just reject with "merge for same art; leave alone/add notes otherwise" if I see more of these. Annie (talk) 12:34, 22 September 2022 (EDT)

Thank you Annie! ElectricStarboard (talk) 12:35, 22 September 2022 (EDT)

Of course I forgot translator above - it is also a reason to make a new variant. As it does not apply for art, it did not matter here but if you are working with texts, same title, language and author but different translator makes different titles and should not be merged as well. Adding this just for completeness. Annie (talk) 13:29, 22 September 2022 (EDT)

Changing publication titles

When you change the publication title, you also need to fix the reference title of the work - you cannot have the pub title as "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass" while the reference title is still " Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass". You can do that in two ways:

• Remove title to eject the offending title followed by Import or Edit to add the one you need inside
• Unmerge post approval of the rename of the publication. Note that when the work is an omnibus, unmerge should not be used for any of its contents (such as novels for example).

If you are already planning to go either way, make sure you add a moderator note to let the handling moderator know what you are planning (and try to get back to these and finish them if you plan to). Thanks! I fixed it here. I also updated your note - we do NOT use the cover as the basis of our titles, we use the title page when it is available. When it is not, we can use the cover but the note should explain that. Updating the title based on the cover implies that the cover is more important than the title page - which is not the case. I use something like "Title based on the cover as the title page is not available." if I want to add a note to that effect. That tells the PV if we ever have one to check the title page. That is usually not needed (a lot of books are added based on covers only) but when the point is that we are editing based on information from the cover only and changing existing records, it makes sense to explain that. Hope this makes sense. Annie (talk) 12:46, 22 September 2022 (EDT)

Dating variants and titles in general

A title is always dated based on its first occurrence with that specific title, author, language and in the case of art, that art type. So a covertart like here won't take its date from when it was first created as an interior art as it was not coverart at the time. IF the interior art exists somewhere, you can variant the coverart to it. If not, you can add the note but the date stays as is as this is the first date the image was used as a cover to a book in that language and with that title and author exactly.

There is an exception for parents which does not apply here though - if a variant is later than a parent (due to a pseudonym or renamed title), the parent gets the variant date (because of statistics and chronology and all that). Does not apply when the difference is in the language - a cross language variant can be after a parent (if the work first came out in translation for example).

Let me know if you have any questions. Feel free to re-add the note in this one. Annie (talk) 12:56, 22 September 2022 (EDT)

Another one here. The originals are published under a different title. Which means that these are dated based on their first occurence under the new title and varianted under the original which will carry the actual date. Thanks! Annie (talk) 15:12, 23 September 2022 (EDT)

Title date after publication date warnings

When you see one of these yellow warnings (such as here), make sure to submit an editTitle for the title which is flagged with the earliest date it will have after the import/clone is approved (both an import and a clone can produce the warning when you are going back in time), with a moderator note on the edit explaining that there is an import in the queue and the date needs a change because of it. Otherwise it will pop up on a cleanup report and someone will need to complete this series of edits (or the approving moderator needs to stop and deal with that - which slows down the process). :)

Please note that in PubEdit you can have some bogus warnings if you are changing a publication date in that edit - if that happens, just make sure no title needs a re-date. Thanks! Annie (talk) 18:42, 22 September 2022 (EDT)

Levi Pinfold and Harry Potter

Hello,

You added a few covers by Levi Pinfold to various Harry Potter editions such as this one with a moderator notes "notes". The notes of the editions reads: "the book also boasts new illustrations by Kate Greenaway winner Levi Pinfold" which is enough to add Interior art but not a cover unless you have a better source for that - it is not uncommon for the cover to be done by a different artist. So I converted them to interior art in the cases where a PV had not verified the cover as by the same artist. While it is very likely that the covers are also by Pinfold, we need a source note for that and the current note does not support it. So if you still think the covers belong to that artist, please add a cover with a source note of the cover credit provenance. Thanks! Annie (talk) 12:43, 23 September 2022 (EDT)

Numbered and unnumbered titles in the same publication

Numbered (with pipes or not) titles sink to the bottom of a contents list; unnumbered ones float to the top (or to think it in a different way, unnumbered titles are shown before any numbered ones). So when you added the pages only to the introduction and art here, you sent them to the bottom (which is not what you were trying to achieve). I added numbers to the stories as well so the Introduction can show up where it is supposed to. Annie (talk) 18:36, 23 September 2022 (EDT)

Submissions in que

Hi! Just wanted to let you know I'm working my way through the submission & if I skip some it's to check with other mods, PV or the look into the changes a bit deeper. There appear to be hundreds of submissions, so this is going to take a while unless some other mods join in to knock off some of the low hanging fruit. Thank.Kraang (talk) 11:30, 26 September 2022 (EDT)

Legal name

The legal name field is always formatted as "Lastname, Firstname Middlenames". The help page with more details is here. I fixed it for Nils Blommer. Annie (talk) 19:18, 27 September 2022 (EDT)

A Coven of Witches

Hi, back cover is done by Tim Foley (Artist) alone, see his website for his style. No variant to the interior art by the two artists, at best you can merge the back cover art with one of the interior art pieces, but in that case you have to enter each and every single piece of interior art.--Dirk P Broer (talk) 07:38, 7 October 2022 (EDT)

The Lost World cover date

Hi. Would you take a look at this submission? I think the change is not needed and the existing date is ok, but I can't tell if there's another factor at play that I don't see. Thanks. --MartyD (talk) 10:46, 8 October 2022 (EDT)

Thanks MartyD - agreed that it is unneeded. I cancelled the submission! ElectricStarboard (talk) 10:48, 8 October 2022 (EDT)

Variants and author/artist credits

Hi. When you make an existing title record into a variant of a new parent title, everything about that parent title should be "canonical" -- both the title text and the author/artist credit. So if you have an artwork record credited to an alternate name and you want to make it a variant of something with different title text, that proposed new parent should use not only the new text but also the artist's canonical name, not the alternate name. --MartyD (talk) 10:58, 8 October 2022 (EDT)

Just So Stories cover art variant

Hi. Would you explain what you're trying to do in this submission? Making a parent coverart title that differs only in date with the variant wouldn't be appropriate. I suspect you meant to represent something else, but I can't tell what. Thanks. --MartyD (talk) 12:04, 9 October 2022 (EDT)

I ended up rejecting this submission. I do not think what you proposed is the correct treatment. If you want to record the origin, then we should make an INTERIORART record for "The Elephant's Child" in the 1912 publication and make the 2015 COVERART record a variant of that. I hope that makes sense. --MartyD (talk) 08:00, 23 November 2022 (EST)

Artwork Records for Non Published Artwork

Hi ElectricStarboard

You have submitted several edits creating parent title records for COVERART and INTERIORART titles to represent the original paintings used in publications. While adding such titles to the database was previously discussed, I don't believe we ever agreed that such records should be added. I've started a discussion on the Rules and Standards page to determine what we should do with these records. Please feel free to join the discussion and offer your opinions there. Thanks. --Ron ~ Rtrace^Talk 21:10, 18 October 2022 (EDT)

And let me add this: When you want to variant cover art to interior art that has not yet been differentiated, first enter each and every one of the interior art pieces in the original book, and then variant the (later) cover art pieces to the original interior art pieces. Do *NOT* variant against non-existing entries that are not part of any publication.--Dirk P Broer (talk) 08:58, 31 October 2022 (EDT)

Removing the translator from the publication note

Please do not remove the translator from the publication notes if it is already there. It does not harm anything and having it in both places can be useful if someone merges titles that should not be merged or something else gets misplaced. I won't go out of my way to add these into publication notes but if they are already there, please leave them in place. Thanks! Annie (talk) 16:59, 8 November 2022 (EST)

Thanks Annie - will do! ElectricStarboard (talk) 08:29, 9 November 2022 (EST)

Using Author template for non-existing authors

If the translator does not already have their own author record in the DB, please do not use an A template inside of the Tr template - it leads to a search page and that is not very user-friendly. I fixed it here. Thanks! Annie (talk) 17:01, 8 November 2022 (EST)

Thank you Annie - I will keep this in mind! ElectricStarboard (talk) 08:30, 9 November 2022 (EST)

Futurs (1ère série) - 1978

I've rejected this submission. This is the 'rolled up' title record for all the publications in this series in 1978. Translator credits belong in the individual content title records. John Scifibones 15:41, 9 November 2022 (EST)

The Fantastic Tales

I put this one on hold and came to talk to you:

• Amazon is notorious for changing covers without changing the rest of the data when the book is reissued. That's how their model works - when a book is reissued with the same ISBN but a different cover, Amazon links to the new cover but not always changes the other details - because for them it is the same book. As a result, a 2013 book which appears to have 2 different covers do not mean 2 2013 books necessarily. And sometimes they use placeholders for the covers (sometimes coming from the publisher) and they only change to the actual cover post publication. There are two possible explanations when we have differing covers for seemingly the same edition:

• What we have is not the correct cover for 2013. In this case what we have had been entered in 2013 and uses an /I/ amazon cover entered in 2013. So the cover was valid in 2013 but it is also a pre-publication record.
• What we have is the 2013 cover and the cover you found belongs to a later printing
• Technically there is also a third option - the publisher did have two covers. Some publishers are known to do that, most of them are not.

When you are working on a book like that, you need to do the research to try to figure out which case you are in because it changes how we add the books - sometimes it will mean dropping the cover that never existed, sometimes that will tell you which record should keep the date and which one gets 0000-00-00 - and add your research in the moderator notes or the regular notes (depending on what you discover). In this case Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17666978) has the cover we have, OCLC (https://www.worldcat.org/title/821697005) and BL (http://explore.bl.uk/primo_library/libweb/action/search.do?fn=search&vl(freeText0)=9780714544045) have the cover you found. Google images search with the ISBNs finds only the new Amazon image and other non-related books. Based on that, I suspect that the 2013 date should stay with that new cover (with the price, the OCLC and the BL records attached) and old cover should be redelegated to a 0000-00-00 edition with notes explaining the covers discrepancy and the GR record (or even deleted - I am not sure that this cover was really used and not just a placeholder considering that both the local authority (BL) and the OCLC have the new cover. But then I had not done too much research and you may have more details.

Let me know what you think. Annie (talk) 15:56, 9 November 2022 (EST)

Same for Dracula although I will let you chase the different sites on your own and see what you will come up with. Thanks! Annie (talk) 15:59, 9 November 2022 (EST)

Jackie and the Giant

Every piece of information in the DB needs to be sourced. This kind of updates will always be rejected. See my rejection note on your options: in short - you either write a note in the Notes field explaining why our date is before our first publication or you add a moderator note mentioning that this is for an earlier edition and you submit that earlier edition alongside the change of date. If I see more of these while working the queue, I will reject with a quick note and not list them here - you can check your rejection log for the rest. Let me know if you have any questions. :) Annie (talk) 16:06, 9 November 2022 (EST)

Mary Ann Evans

When working with disambiguated authors such as Mary Ann Evans make sure you use the correct author name. In this update, it should have been Mary Ann Evans (I) and not just Mary Ann Evans. It would also have been a good idea to submit the unmerge that was needed after this update or at least to let the handling moderator know that you are planning to -- I've done the unmerge, converted to a chapbook and merged with the other version of the text we already had. Let me know if you have questions. Thanks! Annie (talk) 16:14, 9 November 2022 (EST)

The incomplete template

The template is used for books and magazines which have some contents already but not all of it. We do not add it for books with no contents - these are obvious when you open them and we have two separate reports for that:

• Publications with the 'Incomplete' Template in Notes
• Magazines without Fiction Titles
• Anthologies and Collections without Fiction Titles

The template was created to allow books with some contents but not a complete contents to be recognized (as there is no other indication when you open the page - unlike the empty ones which are obvious). Please do not add incomplete to empty book records such as this one. When the empty ones get the same template, it clutters the cleanup lists and makes it impossible for people to concentrate on what they want to work on - completing started contents lists or filling empty ones. Thanks! Annie (talk) 17:22, 9 November 2022 (EST)

Using templates in the middle of sentences

When you use one of the templates in a sentence, please consider how it will come out. For example your update here produces "Adapted and annotated Translated by Brian Stableford." which is... really bad. So either use "Adapted, annotated and <nowiki>{{Tr|Brian Stableford}}. Or "Adapted and annotated by Brian Stableford. {{Tr|Brian Stableford}}.". Slow down a bit and look at what the result will be on approval - otherwise you are creating a lot of extra work for the handling moderators - with the predictable result of the submission queue getting waterlogged at the moment and all approvals delayed due to the amount of extra time most of the submissions require. Thanks! Annie (talk) 17:44, 9 November 2022 (EST)

Changing notes to change formatting

Hello again,

Changing the notes only so you can change the formatting (by adding or removing html or dropping "• " (like here) is considered a very bad form - it shows disrespect to the work of other editors and their formatting choices. We do not enforce formatting of the notes, synopsis and other free text fields like them - as long as they are readable and do not have html issues and look uniform inside of the same field (half html, half plain text is just ugly unless the formatting is done for that specifically (building an indent for example)), please do not force your purely stylistic choices on formatting. If you are adding extra notes you can reformat a bit but I would usually just add my notes using the same format -- I would reformat only if I am adding a lot of additional information. And of course, when you are the first to add notes, you can format them any way that makes sense to you as long as it does not break the rules and the formatting of the page. Thanks for the understanding. I approved that one because of the other changes but restored the formatting of the notes. Annie (talk) 18:21, 9 November 2022 (EST)

PS: And on a separate note: A moderator note of "notes" is kinda useless. When changing the notes field tell us what you are changing - because otherwise we literally need to inspect the lines you are changing symbol by symbol to find what you changed. Which again means spending a much longer time than needed on a submission. :) Thanks! Annie (talk) 18:22, 9 November 2022 (EST)

PS2: One exception is the removal of /li and br tags. /li are never needed (but I would not edit just to remove them as they are harmless - I will clear them up if I am updating anyway). br used to be required for new lines so a lot of entries have it on every line. Now we don't need them but if they are at the start of the first line, the editor wanted the text to align and not sit next to the label of the field so the initial one stays, all the others can be removed. If you see two br tags in a row, that means an empty lines and these stay as a rule if already there. Hope this makes sense. Annie (talk) 18:34, 9 November 2022 (EST)

Improper disambiguation

I am holding this submission. You are disambiguating using The Overcast - 2018, the title record for all the 2018 publications. Picture the result if you submit the same edit for the other 30+ pubs. The proper way to disambiguate is to use the publication title, in this case 'The Overcast, #85'. John Scifibones 20:29, 9 November 2022 (EST)

In addition, all of these “read by” in publications need to be converted to the Narrator template while someone is editing the record anyway. :) Annie (talk) 20:32, 9 November 2022 (EST)

And these - [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13] and [14]. John Scifibones 20:48, 9 November 2022 (EST)

Utóhang (Az illusztrált ember)

I have a real problem with this submission changing the title type from fiction to essay. You know it is a translation of Epilogue (The Illustrated Man) as you submitted an edit to variant the title. Do you think the English title and all the assorted translations are incorrectly typed fiction and should be changed? You supplied no explanation; I'm interested in your reasoning. John Scifibones 21:45, 9 November 2022 (EST)

Translations variants

When varianting translations we assign the length of the canonical title to the variant as well. Obviously, they will not have the exact same number of words but should be reasonably close. If you see the yellow warning because the translation has no length assigned, go ahead and submit an edit to correct. I took care of the ones I saw while reviewing your variant submissions, thanks John Scifibones 23:11, 9 November 2022 (EST)

Outstanding submissions

Hi, I am the ISFDB developer. I am looking at the list of currently outstanding submissions and I see that 7,328, or around 80%, of them have been created by you. I have a couple of questions:

• Are you, by chance, using browser automation to create some of the submissions?
• Could you please put new submissions on hold for a bit to let the moderator crew catch up with what's been already submitted?

Thanks for editing! Ahasuerus (talk) 08:18, 11 November 2022 (EST)

The Story of Siegfried

This is the wrong order of creation - we are publication based so titles should be inside of books (especially when we do have the books). So instead of creating the parent, please work with the PV of the book where the image was published originally and edit the publication to add the title into the book - and then connect the already existing titles. Thanks! Annie (talk) 10:50, 14 November 2022 (EST)

Anuário Brasileiro de Literatura Fantástica 2009

Unmerging a title when there is a single publication attached to it is just creating a new title, one of them outside of any work and these can be deleted overnight so I rejected this one. As you had not explained clearly what you are trying to achieve and why it requires the creation of an empty title, here are some options:

• If you want to unvariant, use the Variant interface with 0 as the Parent ID.
• If you want to replace with a different cover, use RemoveTitle to remove this one, then Import or Edit to add the new cover.
• If you want to add the new title that would have been created here into another book, add the title to the relevant book and then connect them if needed.

Thanks! Annie (talk) 18:30, 14 November 2022 (EST)

Life During Wartime

I'm holding this submission. How can the ebook be #126 when the tp is #66. Did you notice this? John Scifibones 15:24, 23 November 2022 (EST)