User talk:Cary

Revision as of 14:35, 15 January 2023 by Pwendt (talk | contribs) (→‎Doctor Dolittle's Puddleby Adventures: Resolved (Fricker sisters) and Leftover (book club edition specifically)
(diff) ← Older revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
Jump to navigation Jump to search


Hello, Cary, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:47, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Uhura's Song

I accepted your submission, but had to make some changes:

  • Translations should be entered under their own title, not the title of the original work. If the translation's title does not exist in the database (as was in this case), then instead of using "Add Publication to This Title", you should use "Add New Novel". Then, once the new publication is accepted, you would variant it to the original title. I've made the necessary changes to your pub.
  • I also changed the publisher to Heyne. Typically, the publisher is entered per the title pages, but we do some standardization to avoid too much fragmentation. If you believe this was incorrect, please let me know.

With respect to your statement in the notes, yes, please add the cover scan. If the price is on the pub, we would appreciate you adding that as well.

We do appreciate your submission. ISFDB has some conventions that need learning, but everything should be in the help links in the welcome message above. We hope you will continue to contribute. And please let us know if you have any questions (ISFDB:Help desk is a good resource for asking). Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:47, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

And I'd think that the publication will be part of this publication series. If so, this should be stated on the copyright page. I added the information on the translator to the title, where it is essential to differentiate. Also, further information as in this publication also would be appreciated. Thanks very much! Stonecreek 12:31, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Wildside Press edition of At the Earth's Core

I'm holding your submission to add a record for this edition to the database. The date of 2002-02-00 is most likely incorrect. If the book has an ISBN-13, the book had to have been printed after January 2005. There is a listing on Amazon which gives a 2002 publication date for this edition, so your copy must be a later printing. (In that case, the publication date would be zeroed out as 0000-00-00 and displayed as "unknown".) This is probably a POD (print-on-demand) publication like other Wildside titles. There may be a code on the last page facing the inside back cover. We may be able to determine the date from that code, if you can provide the complete POD data. Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 03:51, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Also, the ISBN-13 (9781587165151) you provided is not a valid ISBN. Can you confirm that number again? Amazon gives the ISBN as 978-1587156151, so you may have transposed a couple of numbers. Mhhutchins 04:27, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

The POD code on the last page is: 1451300001B/51
The ISBN is indeed: 9781587156151. I did transpose numbers.
There are a lot of problems with the Amazon page which I am trying to fix (quite independently of adding this page to ISFDB). Amazon says it is from Borgo Press and is a Book Club edition, and then shows a picture of the Nelson Doubleday edition. I think in an effort to clean up Amazon's catalog, Amazon merged several pages together. Cary 04:46, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Yes, Amazon relies too much on their "partners" for entering data, that is often incorrect. That POD code doesn't provide enough information to decipher the date. I'll accept the submission, change the ISBN, and zero out the date. If you're able to contact the publisher concerning the dustjacket and publication date, feel free to update the record. Thanks. Mhhutchins 05:24, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
I have added a record for the introduction. If it has a different title, please update the record. Something just occurred to me. That 13-digit number may be an EAN which was an identifier that appeared above barcodes, and eventually evolved into the ISBN-13. Is that number above the barcode, or does it specifically state "ISBN-13"? Thanks for checking. Mhhutchins 05:29, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks so much. The number is at the bottom of the barcode, and is not specifically identified as ISBN or EAN or anything else. Just the number and barcode. Cary 13:43, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Then it's not an ISBN-13, but an EAN derived from the ISBN-10. This means it may have been published in 2002 (the date given by Amazon). I'll update the publication record. Thanks. Mhhutchins 16:30, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

I had a telephone conversation today with John at Wildside Press. He confirmed the book did not come with a dust jacket. He said it was primarily sold to libraries. He also said - this is where it gets confusing - that Wildside Press did not publish the book, despite their name on the title page and the copyright page. In fact he was quite insistent on this point. He said the book was actually published by Aegypan, and distributed by Wildside, and Wildside was not pleased that this was not stated in the book. He said he was sorry he could not provide any additional information, and since the owner of Aegypan has recently died he thought it would be difficult for me to learn more. (Internet research shows the owner of Aegypan was Alan Rodgers, who died 3-8-2014.) Cary 19:28, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

You can update the record to confirm that it was issued without dustjacket, and that the publishing credit was unauthorized. Please give the conversation as a source for that in the Note field. Do not change the stated publishing credit. Thanks for going the extra mile in researching this "odd" publication. Mhhutchins 20:23, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

The Chronicles of Amber (Volumes I & II)

Your submissions to update these two records made no changes in the records. If you have a question or need some help in how to handle a situation like this, post a message on the ISFDB:Help desk.

Since your copies of the titles appear to be a different edition I would suggest that you clone each of the records, making changes when necessary in each of the fields. The date fields will have to be zeroed out (0000-00-00 displayed as "unknown") since there is no primary or secondary source for the publication date of your copies. If you have any questions about cloning a publication record, just ask them here before making the submission. Thanks. Mhhutchins 03:53, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

It's been a few days without a response, so I created records based on your notes. Please look over this record and this record, make any necessary changes, and add any further information when you get a chance. A question: Is the publisher given as Nelson Doubleday or GuildAmerica? This could narrow down the publication date (which I zeroed out until we can get further information.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 00:15, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

BTW, the ISBNs you gave had an extra digit. When I removed one of the zeros, all three ISBNs became valid. Can you confirm that the ISBNs I gave in the records match the book. If not, please add a note to the effect to each record. Thanks again. Mhhutchins 00:18, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I work very long days (at a job that's basically data entry) and I can only work on this stuff when I get days off. I was unsure whether to create new records for each individual volume or whether to create a new set record, since it was sold as a set and issued a set ISBN. The publisher is Nelson Doubleday. (This in itself might not mean anything, since I purchased the Belgariad and The Dragonriders of Pern brand new just a few years ago with the Nelson Doubleday imprint.)
Sorry about mistyping the ISBNs, the numbers you give are all correct. I might add, the books have a trimmed fore edge and not a deckled edge - but are not perfect bound. When Bertelsmann took over, one of the changes made was making a trimmed fore edge instead of a deckled edge. Also, for a time, the books were perfect bound (pages not sewn in signatures - but you knew all this). Anyway, trimmed fore edge and sewn signature construction might help narrow the dates if someone is knowledgeable on these issues. I think the gutter code in volume 1 is just carelessly using old printing plates. Cary 05:23, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the additional info on the physical description of the books. Because of this distinction, it's a good idea to add it to the note fields of the records. Mhhutchins 14:48, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Extraordinary Tales

Re this record: the following changes were made based on ISFDB entry standards:

  • Catalog # field: when a catalog number is present and it's not the ISBN, enter the # before the number.
  • Content title fields: Generic titles should be disambiguated, e.g. "Foreword" is entered as "Foreword (Extraordinary Tales)".
  • Content author fields: Do not enter an author as "as by". You should enter the credit exactly as given on the title page of the work, e.g. "Richard Francis Burton (as by R. F. Burton)" was changed to "R. F. Burton". If the credited name is a pseudonym or non-standard form of the author's canonical name, then a variant title record should be made. I'll do that for you this time.
  • Note to Moderator field: This field should not be used to provide data about the publication. It should be used to provide data about the submission to help the moderator in the decision to accept the submission. Once accepted everything in the "Note to Moderator" field disappears forever. Any important information should be provided in the "Note" field. I copied the copious notes you originally entered into the "Note to Moderator" field and added them to the "Note" field in a submission to update the record.

Overall, you did very well for such a complicated publication. A question: are the contents which are credited to "Anonymous" exactly credited that way on the title page of each of the pieces?

Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 17:04, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Please confirm that the story on page 122 ("The Water on the Island") is correctly credited to "Edgar Allen Poe" and not "Edgar Allan Poe". Mhhutchins 17:11, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your help! To answer your questions, No! The contents credited to Anonymous aren't credited to anyone! I tried to leave the author field blank but the submission page would not accept the submission with a blank author field. And I misspelled Edgar Allan Poe's name on Pg. 122 (but Nevermore!). 02:59, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
It is ISFDB policy to record credits exactly as published. Since we can't leave the author field blank, we enter "uncredited" for works which have no author credit. "Anonymous" should only be used if that is how the story is credited. I'll make the corrections. Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:16, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your help! Cary 00:46, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

"The Green Fairy Book", by Andrew Lang

You verified your edition of The Green Fairy Book, and included a great deal of detail in the Publications Notes (thanks much!). I've used that to fill out the contents for that book, assuming (1) You reported the story titles as they appear in your book; and (2) Since you said "almost all" of the stories were credited, I've also assumed that the other stories usually in the Green book were there as well, but uncredited. Those additional stories are: Prince Fickle and Fair Helena, The Enchanted Ring, The Enchanted Snake, The Golden Lads, The Story of Caliph Stork, and The Twelve Huntsmen. If you look at the publication page, you'll see the 7 titles that I converted to "Variant titles" based on your reported name as being different than the original name. If you have the chance to check my work against your copy of the book, I would appreciate it, especially if I have made any errors that should be corrected. Thanks, Chavey 00:22, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Chavey! I do indeed have Caliph Stork in this collection but not the other missing stories. It's the third story, and I have inserted it in the list.
I have looked at the variant titles - yes this is what the title is in this publication (and now you can add one more variant, Caliph Stork). Cary 18:59, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! I removed the 5 stories that weren't actually in the collection, made "Caliph Stork" and variant of "The Story of Caliph Stork", and fixed an oversight by making "The Three Bears" a variant of "The Story of the Three Bears". I added a couple of notes about the changes, and did a little re-formatting of the notes for the pub, which I hope makes it a little easier for a visitor to read. I hope those changes meet your approval. Chavey 21:47, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks so much, it all looks great! I did a couple of very minor copy edits to fix what I am sure were my original typos - added one missing ( and deleted one ((. Also, there was a plural subject/ singular verb ( of the stories is) which I changed to a plural subject and a plural verb (origins are) in the notes.

I really think your reformatting makes it a lot easier to read, and want to thank you for all the work you have put in to this!Cary 07:14, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Glad to help! That's what the moderators are here for. Chavey 17:04, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Uploading cover images

I had to delete the cover image file you uploaded for the SFBC edition of The Deryni Archives, because it was incorrectly uploaded. Do not use the "Upload file" link on the ISFDB wiki to upload cover image files. Use the link on the publication page named "Upload cover scan". Follow the directions and once it's on the ISFDB server, update the record to add the URL of the file you just uploaded. I have found a better and larger image file for this edition and have uploaded and linked it to the record. Thanks. Mhhutchins 03:10, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for correcting it, looks good!Cary 17:59, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Updating the records

Re your submission to update this record made no changes in the record. If you wish to state in the record that the SFBC edition is the same as the retail edition, you can add that to the Note field. But to be sure, these days it's getting harder to identify book club printings. Does your copy have a book club ID number "138913" printed on the back of the dust jacket? Does it have the retail price printed on the front flap of the dust jacket? Does the copyright page have a statement of edition or printing? Please respond by editing this message. Thanks. Mhhutchins 03:57, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I can't state that the SFBC edition is the same as the retail edition categorically; but I can say that the copy I got is the retail edition. There is no SFBC number on the back cover; The dust jacket is heavy, high quality paper with raised letters; there is a price on it; there is a complete number line and statement of printing on the copyright page. I got a first edition.

Almost every book I have ordered from the SFBC since last October has been the publishers edition. This includes:

Shifting Shadows, by Patricia Briggs Dead Heat, by Patricia Briggs The Three-Body Problem, by Cixin Liu Cibola Burn, by James S. A. Corey A Call to Duty, by David Weber and Timothy Zahn Coming Home, by Jack McDevitt Dead But Not Forgotten, by Charlaine Harris and Toni L. P. Kelner

Unless there is verification otherwise, it may well be that the book club is mailing publisher's editions on these titles instead of printing their own.Cary05:25, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I believe Bookspan (parent of the SFBC and many other book clubs) may be getting out of the business of printing their own editions, and has become just another discount bookseller, selling the same retail editions you'd find in bookstores and online dealers. In other words, just like Amazon.
I suggest that you update the records for the book club editions of the titles you have listed here, adding a note to the Note field, e.g. "Verifier received a copy of the retail edition directly from the book club, so it's possible that there is no separate SFBC printing.", and doing a primary verification of the record. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
I have been a member of the SFBC for years, and in the last month, I've been receiving emails almost every other day telling me to "upgrade" my membership, i.e. agree to be charged $13.99 per month and get credits which will be used against future purchases. I can't even go into the SFBC website now unless I agree to this "upgrade". Are you getting the same emails? Mhhutchins 06:32, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, and I "upgraded." You can decline the $13.99 each month, which I have done for May, and then it looks the same as before. It is not very well explained. But if they are going away from the cheap editions and into publisher's editions, well then $13.99 is a good price for a publisher's edition. They seem to be going for a narrower, more high volume assortment - lots of James Patterson semi-SF stuff. If you are budget conscious you can join their sister club Bookburst and get the same books for 9.95 and free shipping. Bookburst seems to have only about 30 - 40% of the offerings of SFBC, plus a lot of the other genres (romance anyone?) and has some genre stuff in strange categories. They have Patricia Briggs and Charlaine Harris but not where you would expect. Cary06:03, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Four Reflections by Franz Kafka and Extraordinary Tales

Hello, Cary! As I'm adding many of Kafka's titles I am interested in varianting the translations, so that I'd like to ask you about the contents of his reflections in the said anthology (maybe you could give some of the beginnings or give a short synopsis?). In the anthology, I also had to change the dates for many of the titles to 1971-00-00 as this seems to be the correct date for the first publication of the respective translations; see for example Kafka's Das Schweigen der Sirenen (part of the anthology), which was first published 1931 ín German and then 1933 in English. See also his Ein Landarzt, which has two known English variants/translations. Maybe you could take a second look at the anthology if there are hints for some earlier publications of particular translations. Thanks, Stonecreek 20:24, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in reply. I can't speak to Four Reflections by Franz Kafka, but only Extraordinary Tales. The copyright page says Original edition: Cuentos Breves y Extraordinarios copyright 1967 by Editorial Santiago Rueda S.R.L., Buenoa Aires.

Grateful Permission is made to Schocken Books, Inc. for permission to reprint passages from Franz Kafka's The Great Wall of China, translated by Willa and Edwin Muir, copyright 1948 by Schocken Books, Inc. New York. (I assume this refers to The Truth About Sancho Panza)

English Translation copyright 1971 by Herder and Herder, Inc.

There is a further note on the original texts, page 17: Of the 92 excerpts from various languages which follow, a goodly number were originally in English. Most of the original texts (all the important ones) were located, and we give them here in the exact words in which they were written in English. A few . . . were not found.

So based on the copyright page and this note, I would venture to say that everything in the book is either in the original English or a translation of the 1967 Buenos Aires edition, with the exception of the Kafka. CaryCary 16:15, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

16:12, 3 July 2015 (UTC)


Hello, please note that data about the translator should go in the notes at title level (he's not considered as co-author). I've made the corrections. Hauck 14:24, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

ASF Cover

Hello, thanks for the tip, I've linked the ASF cover to Foundation's Edge's one. To transmit such info, you can contact one of the PVs, post a message on one of the community pages or try to generate the link yourself: to do so use the "Make This Title a Variant Title or Pseudonymous Work" link at variant level (the ASF cover) and enter the titleID of the original covert art (here 436151) then submit the lot. The result is here. Hauck 06:33, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Brilliant! Thanks so much.--Cary 13:00, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Elric Saga Part IV

I just suggested an additional omnibus, Elric Saga, Part IV. Then I found it on the Michael Moorcock page (just not in the Elric area). So please I would like to withdraw my contribution. Sorry!--Cary 04:00, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Quantum Night

Hello, I've approved your submission but made a lot of changes to conform to our standards: 1) regularized publisher to "Ace Books / SFBC" (to avoid creating a new one), 2) added currency symbol (I supposed that the price is in USD), 3) untangled the mess created by the fact that you added manually another NOVEL record (in fact this is automatic so you ended with TWO identical novels in your publication), 4) merged the result with the already existing NOVEL record (you could have used the "Add Publication to This Title" link here), 5) disambiguated the ESSAYs (note that such items are usually not entered, except if they're of importance), this allowed me to merge them with (again) the already existing records. In this case, your best (and simplest by far) course of action would have been to clone this existing publication (via the "Clone This Publication" link) and just change the value of some of the fields (e.g. publisher or price). Hauck 15:28, 5 October 2016 (UTC) Ouch! So sorry!! Thanks for the tips! I see where I went wrong. --Cary 13:16, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Uploading Images

Hello, please follow the standard procedure for uploading images (see above the message by Michael), I've deleted the one that were uploaded outside it. Hauck 10:08, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

OK, please check my work, thanks!--Cary 15:17, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
Submission approved, you're getting the hang of it. Hauck 15:19, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
)--Cary 02:04, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Steampunk Voyages

Hi. I accepted your submissions for Steampunk Voyages. Since you have the book, there's two more things you could (should) do with it, if you're willing.

First, whenever you run into an existing record that says "Data from Amazon" (or any other source that's not the book) and you have the book, you should change that note: If all of the information matches what's in the book, delete the note entirely; if there's some piece of data that's not present in the book, then change it to refer only to what's not in the book. For example, if the book had no date in it, you'd change the note to something like "Publication date from".

Second, please consider doing a primary verification. Go to the above link and pick Verify This Pub in the Editing Tools menu at the left. If you have the book only temporarily, use the "Primary (Transient)"; if you have it permanently, use "Primary". This tells us who looked at a real copy of the book and whom to ask questions about it.

Thanks, --MartyD 03:55, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Done, thanks!--Cary 05:47, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Doctor Dolittle Treasury

Hi. You verified our record for Doctor Dolittle: A Treasury (Dell, 1986) P295527. Does that book really use the abbreviation "Dr. Dolittle" for one of the contents, "Dr. Dolittle and the Green Canary"? Is that an excerpt from Doctor Dolittle and the Green Canary (1950), or the entire novel?

Does it say when the Afterword by Christopher Lofting was first published? (We now date it 1922 but that may change from data that I enter before you read this.) --Pwendt|talk 22:38, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

For the Treasury INTERIORART by Lofting T1025877, I changed the year from 1920 to 1967 and added the short uncertain explanatory Note. --Pwendt|talk 05:08, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I did not notice. It is indeed Doctor Dolittle and the Green Canary, not Dr. Dolittle and the Green Canary, both on the table of contents page and at the beginning of that section.

No excerpt contains the entire novel, or even entire chapters. For each "book" in this collection, you get a title page and one or more chapters. As the publisher says in the introduction, these are selections from the novels. There is a paragraph from here, a sentence from there, and so on, all put together into a coherent narrative. For instance, Chapter 1 of The Story of Doctor Dolittle in the Treasury contains material from the first four chapters of the original novel, condensed down.

The 23 pages allowed Doctor Dolittle and the Green Canary do not come close to containing the entire 269 page novel. Ironically, almost all of Chapter 1 comes from material in Doctor Dolittle's Caravan.

The Afterword by Christopher Lofting is copyright 1986 and from internal evidence (he mentions in passing the charges in the late 1960s that certain passages and illustrations were racist; and he also mentions in passing the return of Halley's Comet in 1986) that appears to be the date of composition as well.

I also have the Lippincott hardcover edition of the Treasury. It is copyright 1967. It lacks the Afterword by Christopher Lofting, and has a Foreword by the publisher but is otherwise the same. The printing date of the Dell Yearling paperback edition is October 1986 as stated on the copyright page.

All of the Interior art, including the title pages of each chapter, is reproduced from the original novels, and should probably be dated accordingly depending on which novel it comes from. --Cary 16:05, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

For our publication records of the novel --three, all as "Dr."-- I submitted major expansions that give "Doctor" as publication, cover art, and illustrations Title. After those are approved the official novel title will be easy to get changed, I hope and suppose.
I don't have much interest in the Treasury except as it interferes with or enables revision of "Dr." to "Doctor" in all of the primary Hugh Lofting novel, cover, and interior titles, and all of the 1st ed. publication records (now almost done). But I will momentarily write some Note for the Lofting introduction based on your report above. Thanks. --Pwendt|talk 21:17, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
I submitted Notes to our title records for both the Treasury and its Afterword. Both Notes end with the line "-- based on communication with the verifier of those two eds." and as an afterthought I wondered to one moderator whether such a footer should be in the database. Feel free to rewrite either content, or that footer--if these submissions are approved; if not I'll tell you what the moderator says. --21:41
amended --Pwendt|talk 21:46, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, I handled the submissions and saw the notes but didn't do anything about it. I personally have no objection to that sort of comment's appearing in the notes, although it would be better for verifier(s) to do an authoritative edit of the notes and remove that "based on" qualifier. --MartyD 18:40, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

The changes look good. I notice that one of the books excerpted, Doctor Dolittle's Puddleby Adventures, is listed as a novel. It's actually a collection of eight stories (six stories in the book club edition). These stories were all originally published in newspapers, and didn't make it into any of the novels. Various online sites will explain just where in the Dolittle chronology they fall. Not today (but someday soon) I will suggest this change from novel to collection.--Cary 20:37, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Today I submitted "missing links" to Wikipedia book articles including that for the Puddleby Adventures (at Wikipedia). For that one I included a relevant title Note (submission). Does the Treasury identify its Puddleby Adventures selection as any one of the 8 stories that Wikipedia lists? --Pwendt|talk 16:50, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
Based on what I see here, I changed the Doctor Dolittle's Puddleby Adventures title and its sole publication to COLLECTION. Per a note in the pub, it looks like a list of contents is available here, although obviously the book itself is a much better source. --MartyD 18:40, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
One further comment, based on all of the above: It looks to me like the pubs associated with Doctor Dolittle: A Treasury are not set up the way they should be. If that book were contain the full novels -- as the current configuration of the contents suggests -- it would more properly be an OMNIBUS. But the explanation above indicates it only contains excerpts, not the full novels. If that's the case, then all of the existing novel/collection content entries should be removed (assuming none is reproduced in its entirety), and new entries should be made using the same title texts, but with " (excerpt)" on the end and title type SHORTFICTION (with no length), and it would properly be COLLECTION as it is now. Please ask if that doesn't make sense or if I have missed something. --MartyD 18:40, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes Marty, I quite agree that the contents of Doctor Dolittle: A Treasury should be listed as (excerpt) SHORTFICTION.

The selection in the Treasury from Doctor Dolittle's Puddleby Adventures is the complete story, The Dog Ambulance, with all its illustrations. I did a line by line comparison of the story in both books. The difference is that in the Puddleby Adventures, The Dog Ambulance is a three chapter story with chapter 1 being The First Patient. In the Treasury, Puddleby Adventures is a three chapter book with the first chapter being The Dog Ambulance. In both, chapter 2 and chapter 3 have the same headings.

I have added the six story book club version of Puddleby Adventures, since I didn't see it in the database.--Cary 23:11, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Cary, There are two nearly-identical records now. Should P600193 be deleted?
Probably there should be another Notes item, stating that the 6 (or 8) shortfiction contents as entered in the database correspond to multiple chapters in the book, with chapter headings that have been interpreted as less than shortfiction titles. If I do understand your description correctly.
As I understand both of you, we will eventually have SHORTFICTION "Doctor Dolittle's Puddleby Adventures (excerpt)" as a variant of SHORTFICTION "The Dog Ambulance" --1967 and 1952 respectively, if i understand correctly --in turn, until we find that "The Dog Ambulance" and so on were published in the 1920s Herald Tribune, with dates. --Pwendt|talk 21:05, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, please delete 600193. Apparently in editing and creating that record, I created a duplicate. 600194 is the completely edited version, more complete and correct.

In regard to this comment: ": Probably there should be another Notes item, stating that the 6 (or 8) shortfiction contents as entered in the database correspond to multiple chapters in the book, with chapter headings that have been interpreted as less than shortfiction titles. If I do understand your description correctly." Since the conversation has been about two different books, Doctor Dolittle's Treasury, and Doctor Dolittle's Puddleby Adventures, I am not sure which book you are referring to.

As to how the story The Dog Ambulance appears in Doctor Dolittle's Treasury - every novel excerpt appears with the title page of the novel, followed by the excerpts. So, we have the title page for Doctor Dolittle's Puddleby Adventures, which is referenced in the table of contents, followed by one of the stories from that collection, The Dog Ambulance. So, you could do NAME OF NOVEL (excerpt) SHORTFICTION for each piece, and for the Puddleby Adventures section you could do variant of SHORTFICTION "The Dog Ambulance" as you suggest. I have no comment on the dates. It would be nice to be able to research the Herald Tribune online, which I may do some day. --Cary 01:16, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

These two cover images at Amazon may match "your" publications usefully [1] [2].
--Pwendt|talk 01:41, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Ha! The first image is My Upload to Amazon for Doctor Dolittle's Garden. The second image is the dust jacket for the hard cover edition of Doctor Dolittle: A Treasury. I own a copy of this, but my copy lacks a dust jacket. --Cary 14:55, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

The Adventures of Doctor Dolittle

subsection concerning newspaper serial, heading inserted 2017-01-14 -Pwendt

Through sometime 1924 it may be sufficient to research archives of the New-York Tribune, which acquired the Herald that year. Sometimes I have access. Search report 1920 to 1922 shows multiple hits for newspaper title "THE ADVENTURES OF DOCTOR DOLITTLE: Continuing the History ..."; for instance N-Y Tribune 1922-11-05 p22.
--Pwendt|talk 01:41, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
ProQuest Historical Newspapers search for "ADVENTURES OF DOCTOR DOLITTLE", which may be error-prone for various reasons, today hits weekly items in New-York Tribune 1922-10-29 to 1923-01-21 plus 1923-04-01
Apparently hits daily items in The Washington Post from 1923-07-02 p10 to 1925-01-31, commonly page 9/10/11/12
The search hits begin daily in The Globe (Toronto) early February 1925. For April 22-25 and 27-29, the search report reveals numbered sub-subtitles THE ADVENTURES OF DOCTOR DOLITTLE: The History of His Peculiar Life at Home and His Astounding Experiences in Foreign Lands "No. 288-- A Soldier's Life" to "No. 294-- The Escape from the Factory". Numbering shows up in the search report now and then, evidently with skips ... 1926-01-08 is "No. 515-- His Royal Highness Prince Bumpo" ... 1926-12-20 is "No. 811-- 'Dapple' the Prize Dalmation" (destined for the Puddleby Adventures collection, i suppose) ... 1927-09-21 p17 is "No. 1,047-- The Lottery" (i think i saw that in the Was Post series)
In my search report today there are essentially zero hits for other newspapers during these long serials in Was Post and Tor Globe
Ihope this helps someday. --Pwendt|talk 21:59, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! --Cary 14:55, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

The Wild Machines

Just approved your publication update for The Wild Machines, but saw your note that you owned a copy of the book. In this case you should also probably list yourself as a Primary Verifier for the publication; you can do this by clicking on the Verify this Pub link in the Editing Tools section of the left sidebar, and in this case select Primary 2 since BungalowBarbara is already occupying the first Primary Verifier slot.

Also, in cases like this when another active user is listed as a Primary Verifier, you should add a note to their User Talk page on the Wiki letting them know you've made the change... although for some minor changes some users will want to be notified differently, in which case they will usually list their preferences at the top of their Talk page. Thanks, Albinoflea 03:40, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks!--Cary 05:50, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Extraordinary Tales (new)

You verified the 1971 collection Extraordinary Tales (1st ed. in English) that includes one by Lal Behari Day, of which you Note (quote):

"The Annihilation of the Ogres" is from Folk Takes of Bengal. [sic]

Presumably that should be Folk-Tales of Bengal (at Wikipedia).

Elsewhere the author is Lalbehari or De or Dey. Today I added identifying info to our Author record.

"The Annihilation of the Ogres" is not listed in the 1883/1912 collection Contents per Wikipedia --whose list I confirmed at HathiTrust Digital Library for the 1912 ed.

Does the word "ogres" appear in "The Annihilation of the Ogres"? It does not appear in the Project Gutenberg #38488, a transcript of the 1912 ed. search text version.

Perhaps you can find the story in there, or confirm that it is not there.

Or quote me the first paragraph, or a crucial proper noun, and I will look for it in PG 38488 and elsewhere if necessary.

(Probably I will add Folk-Tales of Bengal to the database this week.) --Pwendt|talk 00:59, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

OOPS! That's a typo on my part, it is indeed Folk Tales of Bengal.
The Annihilation of the Ogres is only two paragraphs long. The first two sentences are: The life of an entire tribe of ogres may be concentrated in two bees. The secret was revealed by an ogre to a captive princess, who pretended to fear that her ogre might not be immortal. I hope this helps. If you are doing a search for a key word you might try using spelling variations for ogre - or perhaps synonyms. --Cary 04:55, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
  • I do find this reported "From ‘The Annihilation of the Ogres' appearing in Folk Tales of Bengal" [3], which may mean transcribed from Extraordinary Tales.
  • And I find the meaning of these two sentences in nearly identical wording concerning an "ogress", at The Golden Bough vol 2 (Macmillan, 1890) p303 via Google Books [4].
  • It's not close to the version in Folk Tales of Bengal Project Gutenberg #38488 p81 (located by HTML edition text search 'two bees') --source text being "First Edition 1883"; "With Coloured Illustrations by Warwick Goble, 1912" [5]

(I disambiguate the heading of this section as "(new)".) --Pwendt|talk 21:59, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

I didn't notice that this is a translation from Spanish. Per Wikipedia "Lal Behari's writings were mostly in English" and it is clear that the 1883 collection is one of them, but your collection may yet contain English > Spanish > English double translations. One translator or both may even refer to a work such as The Golden Bough during translation. When I figure out what to Note at "Annihilation of the Ogres" I will insert a cross-ref in your Note on this collection. --Pwendt|talk 19:32, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes, there is a Note on the Original Texts which says in part: "Most of the original texts ... were located, and we give them here in the exact words in which they were written in English. A few of the more unusual originals (the Indian Antiquary, some rare Richard Burton, short passages of exotica, certain China tales and orientalia ...) were not found. Even when the rarer Burton was located, the passages in question were not found and thus the exact wording by that author could not be given: there is good reason to believe that the translation into Spanish by the Argentine editors was idiosyncratic in the first place; in most cases, the translations into Spanish were found to have been freely compressed." I would imagine from the hard work you are going thru to locate the original, that The Annihilation of the Ogres is one of those short passages of exotica or orientalia referred to here. --Cary 16:14, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Adventures in Time and Space

Hello, about your question in the "notes to moderator" field (note that this is not the proper way to ask such questions, use one of the community pages instead), there is already one publication with the Selection title (here) so someone has already stumbled on the same problem. IMHO you should update the title of the publication record to match what's on title page but it's better to check with other PVs first (with Don as the other PVs is less present). Just drop them a line on their talk page. Hauck 08:28, 19 June 2017 (UTC) Thanks. --Cary 21:34, 28 November 2017 (EST)

Andrew Lang's Fairy Tale Anthologies

As a verifier of one of these publications, please see this discussion. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:23, 25 January 2018 (EST)

Per the outcome of the referenced discussion, your Green Fairy Book has been converted to an anthology. I have not done anything with the contents yet as I'm not clear on the publication notes. The notes state "Almost every story is credited for the origin. The formal contents credit Andrew Lang, since he wrote them in this particular instantiation, but the origins of these stories are credited as follows...". Lang did not write these stories, but merely edited them. In the original 1892 edition, he utilized footnotes and the preface to credit them. Was that done the same way here (i.e. was it a reprint of the original including the footnotes)? Or else wise? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:13, 2 February 2018 (EST)

I apologize for taking so long to respond. It took me a while to find this book, and there was a family emergency that intervened. There is no preface or footnotes, and I do not have access to the 1892 edition (although it is probably available free online somewhere). There is a 3 page note "To the Friendly Reader," clearly written to children. After each story, there is a very brief comment in square brackets. For instance, after The Half-Chick, it says: [Spanish translation]. After The Blue Bird, it says: [L'Oiseau Bleu, by Madame d'Aulnoy.] I hope this answers your questions. --Cary 11:47, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

Doctor Dolittle's Garden

I just added a cover to your verified pub Doctor Dolittle's Garden--Auric 13:10, 20 February 2018 (EST) Thank you!--Cary 11:49, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

Accent marks in "Extraordinary Tales"

Hi, could you look into Extraordinary Tales and see whether some of the names are printed with accent marks on them or not: Wu Ch'êng-ên (p. 10), Menéndez y Pelayo (p. 71), Paul Valéry (p. 112), Suárez Miranda (p. 123) and Virgilio Piñera (p. 129)? And any others that may differ from precisely how they are in the database? The point is to make a note in the publication records about the spelling in the book, and then add the accent marks to the author's name. Thanks... --Vasha 16:16, 12 June 2018 (EDT)

Wu Ch'eng-en (page 21); Menéndez y Pelayo (page 71); Paul Valéry (page 112); Suárez Miranda (page 123) are all spelled out as I have written here. ALSO: Leon Rivera (page 56) has an accent on the o in Leon, similar to the accent on the e in Valéry;Page 78: Luis L. Antunano, has a tilde on the middle n in Antunano; Page 129: Virgilio Pinera has a tilde on the n in Pinera; page 144: Tallemant des Réaux. I have had difficulty getting the international alphabet to work in my browser but can copy and paste OK. --Cary 22:08, 12 June 2018 (EDT)
Fabulous, thanks for checking. I will make a note that the marks are not on Wu Ch'eng-en's name and then ping a moderator to fix the rest of them. --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 22:16, 12 June 2018 (EDT)

Being as I have obtained copies of the English edition and two Spanish editions, I have started a Wiki page for sorting out the sources & details of these stories. Your contributions would be very much welcomed. Three areas need your votes: what author credit we should use (last row under each story), whether it is fiction or essay (first row), whether it is "nongenre" or not (second row). Thanks --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 14:37, 5 July 2018 (EDT) Thanks!--Cary 14:07, 14 July 2018 (EDT)

Series name in subtitles

I'm going to approve your edit to Cooper's Spear of Light. However, I'm also going to remove the subtitle for the series name and position. If you look at the second half of the subtitles paragraph on this help page, you'll see see that our practice is to not enter series names in subtitles. You can certainly record this information in the note field, if you'd like. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:09, 15 July 2018 (EDT)

Thank you! I must have missed that the first time I read it thru. Endlessly interesting information there! --Cary 14:18, 15 July 2018 (EDT)



About your message here. If you want, you can add a note at the bottom of the notes stating that PV6's copy has no gutter code (possibly indicating later reprint? Or maybe the gutter code moved to another page?) or you can leave the note as is. Or you can leave it as is :) Thanks! Annie 12:41, 4 April 2022 (EDT) If that's OK< I will leave it as is. --Cary--Cary 17:35, 18 June 2022 (EDT)


I'm trying to figure out whether to add a PV to [6], or to clone a new version. My copy indicates 'Rev 4.0'. Yours? --Glenn 18:24, 7 July 2022 (EDT)

Doctor Dolittle's Puddleby Adventures

Hi, You created and verified our record of Doctor Dolittle's Puddleby Adventures in its 1952 Weekly Reader Book Club edition P600194. (I don't know when we should report either W. R. or Weakly Reader Book Club as a Publisher (search report) or as a Publication Series (search report).)

Library records for the full, original, 1952 Lippincott edition P368452 should not be linked in the External IDs field (where you did not locate them, but they migrated). I deleted those entries. Concerning the story contents, original 8 or book club 6, I re-wrote that line of your Note heavily, re-incorporating a link to OCLC 1185760 report of the full edition.
Submission 5461626. --Pwendt|talk 14:50, 21 October 2022 (EDT)

Now that submission has been approved, so that your BCE publication record no longer links the two library records as "External IDs". Instead my BCE Note item (above the literal bullet points, your text unrevised) contains in-line links to the 1st ed. publication record and the WorldCat report of the latter.
Do you know that, or whether, "BCE" means Weekly Reader Book Club Edition? --Pwendt|talk 15:43, 8 November 2022 (EST)
Kirkus Reviews in a contemporary starred review identified the posthumous collaborator as Josephine Lofting (HL's widow). Elsewhere I see Lofting's sister-in-law credited in prose not only as Olga Michael but also as Olga Fricker. So I wonder whether how, if at all, she is credited in the 1952 book? And if she is not credited in name, what evidence does the book provide its composition? (rather than rely on Wikipedia to conclude Kirkus Reviews is wrong) --Pwendt|talk 18:19, 11 December 2022 (EST)
Resolved. Josephine Fricker Lofting (died 1966) presented the 1952 Puddleby Adventures (dropped from some later editions). She was copyright holder and literary executor. But the collaborator was her sister, as "Olga Michael" both in JL's foreword and at the foot of her own introduction "Doctor Dolittle and His Family" (viewed at as p18 of 1971 Jonathan Cape printing, p12 of 1981 Puffin).
The 1967 Treasury is credited on the title pages of several editions as "Compiled by Olga Fricker" --sister's maiden name and professional name, Wikipedia: Olga Fricker.
(Second husband Jay Michael was not a named survivor of her 1995 death.)
Leftover. Is the Weekly Reader BCE 600194 certainly a 1952 publication? Does it contain the Foreword by JL; or begin with the p1-4 Introduction, closing "Olga Michael" without explanation; or something else? --Pwendt|talk 13:35, 15 January 2023 (EST)

Doctor Dolittle: A Treasury

Hi, You verified our records of the COLLECTION Doctor Dolittle: A Treasury in both 1967 1st ed. 295523 and 1986 Dell Yearling 295527 editions. The container title is now OMNIBUS (again), which fits the current fiction contents as eight whole NOVELs[*] rather than SHORTFICTION excerpts. If you verified contents distinct from the original novels, those have been merged with the novels, presumably because you did not use story titles "... (excerpt)".

WorldCat summary: "An introduction to Doctor Dolittle's world of animals, including selections from eight of Lofting's books about him and many of the author's original drawings." Because you didn't enter page numbers, I wonder whether the "selections from eight" are arranged one after the other, so that each of the eight originals is represented by a single span of pages in the treasury? If so, then we should list the contents as eight SHORTFICTION with titles such as

  • The Voyages of Doctor Dolittle (excerpt)

and we should use page numbers.

For instance see new! 1967 short story The Voyages of Doctor Dolittle (excerpt) as I initiate OMNIBUS-to-COLLECTION conversion 2023-01-01. ...

[*] Seven NOVEL and one COLLECTION. Short stories from the collection should be listed as Treasury contents, if appropriate. --Pwendt|talk 13:19, 6 November 2022 (EST)

Today I submitted the 1977 Puffin edition of the Treasury under variant title Introducing Doctor Dolittle subm 5509058. When approved (recent length of the queue suggests January!) I might add the contents as eight new "(excerpt)" SHORTFICTION, relying on your version of the contents. --Pwendt|talk 18:12, 11 December 2022 (EST)
... New Year's submissions #5527216-18, 5527221, 5527261 continue the conversion from OMNIBUS of novels to COLLECTION of short stories. These are the first steps that revise the 1986 and 1967 publication records you verified (#5527217 and 18). Beside citing this talk page, my own Note to Moderator cites your 2016-11-18 Note to Moderator. --Pwendt|talk 11:37, 2 January 2023 (EST)
Today I submitted Subm 5533271 page numbers for the 1986-10 edition with Afterword by Christopher Lofting (evidently without original Foreword by Josephine Lofting) from preview at Open Library. Evidently your 2016 description of story lengths (currently quoted in the excerpt Title notes) overlooked the very 3rd story of 8, about 44% of the whole. Soon I'll revise those story notes (mine from late 2022) and lengths (probably as 2nd, novelette; 3rd, novella). --Pwendt|talk 13:52, 7 January 2023 (EST)
Submitted new story records for all eight book excerpts, now as ShortStory--novelette--novella-- and 5 more short stories. "The Voyages" is nearly half of the Treasury by length ( Subm 5542341). I list all of the excerpt section headings, or story chapters, for reference of any ambitious user/editor who cares to compare with Lofting's book chapters.
Submitted also INTERIORART Notes [7] --Pwendt|talk 10:50, 15 January 2023 (EST)