Template talk:TitleFields:Length

Given the current revival of the never-ending discussion, can someone fill in the history of where we borrowed the rules from? There's some slight discrepancies that mean I can't be sure where we got them from, although it's usually only a word either way. I'm specifically comparing our rules with these Hugo and Nebula rules (feel free to check if they're actually the most up-to-date versions).

Vignette:      ISFDB:    Not used.
               Nebula:   Not used.
               Hugo:     Not used.
            vi Contento: < 1,000 words. (under 4 pages)

Shortstory: ss ISFDB     <= 7,500 words
               Nebula:   <  7,500 words   
               Hugo:     <  7,500 words               
            ss Contento: >= 1,000 words and < 7,500 words. (4-20 pages)

Novelette:  nt ISFDB     >  7,500 words and <= 17,500 words. 
               Nebula:   >= 7,500 words and <  17,500 words. 
               Hugo:     "Between" 7,500 words and 17,500 words. 
            nv Contento: >= 7,500 words and <  17,500 words. (21-45 pages)

Novella:    nv ISFDB:    >  17,500 words and <= 40,000 words. 
               Nebula:   >= 17,500 words and <  40,000 words. 
               Hugo:     "Between" 17,500 words and 40,000 words.   
            na Contento: >= 17,500 words and <  40,000 words. (46-100 pages)

The Hugo looks a slightly woollier definition as it doesn't indicate whether "between" includes the end-values or not, and either way you have either an overlap or a gap. But the real kicker is in the Nebula rules: At the author's request, a novella-length work published individually, rather than as part of a collection or an anthology, may appear in the novel category. BLongley 19:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't know which source we started with, but Contento (in his list of abbreviations) says:

• vignette (under 4 pages, under 1,000 words)
• short story (4-20 pages, 1,000-7,499 words)
• novelette (21-45 pages, 7,500-17,499 words)
• novella (46-100 pages, 17,500-39,999 words)
• novel (over 100 pages, over 40,000 words)

The Lotus Index used the same list. This pretty well matches our current cats, except for the separate cat for under 1000 words, which we fold into short story. -DES ^Talk 21:24, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe that we looked at the Hugo/Nebula rules and said "Works for us; let's not re-invent the wheel". Unfortunately, not all books are created equal, so you can have anywhere from 150 words per page (large print editions and children's books) to 550 words per page (encyclopedias and such). Since it's much easier to determine the page count than it is to do a proper word count, there is plenty of room for error :( Ahasuerus 21:31, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I added Contento to the first table and vignette to the Contento list above. It looks like it's a minor tweak to get the ISFDB definitions to match the others. I also added the abbreviations used by Contento and ISFDB. They don't match up and so presumably ISFDB's source is something else. --Marc Kupper|talk 23:59, 11 November 2008 (UTC)