R&S Example page/Editors and "scientific editors"

A new editor, Andrew Fraknoi (User:Fraknoi), has added himself as a co-editor of the Bantam Spectra edition of Byron Preiss' The Universe. I checked OCLC 15654497 (ISBN 0553052276) and it lists "Byron Preiss, editor ; Andrew Fraknoi, scientific editor". I suppose it arguably makes Andrew Fraknoi a co-editor, at least until we have "roles" implemented, so I approved the edit.

I then checked his other submission, which aims to apply the same change to The Planets, another Preiss anthology, but OCLC 12421530 lists Byron Preiss, editor ; Andrew Franknoi, scientific consultant", which, in my mind, makes it ineligible. The edit is now on hold pending the outcome of this discussion (and Michael's physical verification of one of the editions.) Ahasuerus 02:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I would disagree that this role should be elevated to the same as Preiss's role. There's no way of distinguishing it in the database, so, in essence, the acceptance of the submission made them equal. In the response to the original inquiry on my user talk page, I explain that there are other roles credited on the copyright page for Associate Editors (for both science and science fiction), and Photo Editor. Until we can create roles other than author (which is actually what we do currently for anthology and magazine editors) we need to make clear distinctions. There are many cases where the Managing Editor of a magazine actually chose the stories that went into the issues, but are not credited in our database as the "editor". Are we going to retrofit those records so that the Editor and Managing Editors are co-editors? (Sorry, mag guys, didn't want to give you a headache about having to go back and change all of those hundreds of issues!) I'm open to hearing arguments for making certain roles into co-editors. MHHutchins 02:59, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

That's a good argument for exclusion, especially considering that, as you wrote,

• There are other roles credited on the copyright page: "Book design by Leslie Miller", "Associate Editor for Science: Ruth Ashby", "Associate Editor for Science Fiction: David M. Harris", "Photo Editor: E. Bruce Stevenson"

On the other hand, as you note, "Title page credits [read]: "Byron Preiss, Editor" (over) "Andrew Fraknoi, Scientific Editor" (in a smaller font)", so Fraknoi's contribution stands out from the crowd.

Given the evidence, I now think that it would be easier and more consistent to relegate "scientific editors" and similar roles to Notes, at least until we have better support for roles, but I don't have a strong preference. I just want to make sure that we have some kind of standard that we can apply going forward. Ahasuerus 03:25, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I usually document these in the notes and also document where I found the credit. Title page credits are significant and will be the first bullet in my notes. If the credit is not on the title page then I'll note it after the bullets about the meta data. I used to abuse and overload INTERIORART to add contributor roles but have dropped that practice.

As Fraknoi is credited on the title page in this instance I would elevate him to co-editor but add notes at both the title and publication level. That way, the only "deception" is on Preiss' and Fraknoi's author bios. Eight of the 83 book listings mention Fraknoi with six of them as a co-editor, and one as "Fraknoi, Andrew (Editor)" but after all of the author names (following the format used on the front cover). The last listing is interesting as it lists Preiss as the sole editor followed by Fraknoi as scientific consultant rather than "Science Editor" as what's on the front cover and title page. --Marc Kupper|talk 03:16, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

So far we have inconclusive results (shocking, I know) with a bare majority in favor of relegating "scientific editors/consultants" to Notes. Expedited to clear the queue. Ahasuerus 23:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC)