https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB_talk:Serial_Cleanup&feed=atom&action=historyISFDB talk:Serial Cleanup - Revision history2024-03-28T20:48:26ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.35.6https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB_talk:Serial_Cleanup&diff=165628&oldid=prevAhasuerus: /* Missing serial variants */ What the change will do2009-09-02T20:11:02Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Missing serial variants: </span> What the change will do</span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::So the software change would have had no effect on this particular serial, because its title ("A Plague of Masters") didn't match the parent record (''Earthman, Come Home!'') and it only matched a variant (the novel appeared as "A Plague of Masters" in an omnibus.) Right? If that's correct then these would have had to have been matched manually regardless of the software, just like some serials with non-matching names that have never been made variants to book titles, like another one I found while doing these serial fixes (Simak's serial "Time Quarry" to his novel ''Time and Again''). [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 19:55, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::So the software change would have had no effect on this particular serial, because its title ("A Plague of Masters") didn't match the parent record (''Earthman, Come Home!'') and it only matched a variant (the novel appeared as "A Plague of Masters" in an omnibus.) Right? If that's correct then these would have had to have been matched manually regardless of the software, just like some serials with non-matching names that have never been made variants to book titles, like another one I found while doing these serial fixes (Simak's serial "Time Quarry" to his novel ''Time and Again''). [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 19:55, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::The software change tentatively planned for this weekend will do two things:</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::#Find all Serial Titles that are:</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::#*'''not''' VTs, and</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::#*match one (and only one) Novel or Shortfiction Title by the same author(s)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::#and create a VT relationship between these Serial records and the matching Novel/Shortfition record</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::#Change the behavior of the Summary Bibliography and Title Page logic so that it no longer looks for matching Serial records (aka "lexical match")</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::In the case outlined above, the two Serial records are already VT'd to the canonical Novel Title, so the software change will not affect them. Assuming they were already VT'd that way when we started, of course. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== serials in non-genre magazines ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== serials in non-genre magazines ==</div></td></tr>
</table>Ahasuerushttps://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB_talk:Serial_Cleanup&diff=165625&oldid=prevAhasuerus: /* Are these really OK? */ DES is right2009-09-02T19:56:28Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Are these really OK?: </span> DES is right</span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I've checked a number of the ones that were marked OK on the archived page, and I find many of them aren't in the same shape as the ones that I did. For example, Anita Allen[1]'s "The Spark of Allah" (sorry I couldn't create a link to her page because of those brackets in her name, and if anyone can, please let me know how). In the case of a serial that never had book publication I created a title record of just the name (no parts), and then made all of the serial parts variants of that single title record. Was this incorrect or unnecessary because the software change would do it for us? Thanks. [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:03, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I've checked a number of the ones that were marked OK on the archived page, and I find many of them aren't in the same shape as the ones that I did. For example, Anita Allen[1]'s "The Spark of Allah" (sorry I couldn't create a link to her page because of those brackets in her name, and if anyone can, please let me know how). In the case of a serial that never had book publication I created a title record of just the name (no parts), and then made all of the serial parts variants of that single title record. Was this incorrect or unnecessary because the software change would do it for us? Thanks. [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:03, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::I couldn't get it to work through the '''<nowiki>{{A}}</nowiki>''' template, but in a plain link you can encode the braces: <pre>[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Anita%20Allen%5B1%5D Anita Allen&lt;nowiki&gt;[1]&lt;/nowiki&gt;]</pre></div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::I couldn't get it to work through the '''<nowiki>{{A}}</nowiki>''' template, but in a plain link you can encode the braces: <pre>[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Anita%20Allen%5B1%5D Anita Allen&lt;nowiki&gt;[1]&lt;/nowiki&gt;]</pre></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::to get [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Anita%20Allen%5B1%5D Anita Allen<nowiki>[1]</nowiki>] -- "[" is '''%5B''' and "]" is '''%5D'''. The web server will interpret the encoded characters the same way as the plain characters. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 11:12, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::to get [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Anita%20Allen%5B1%5D Anita Allen<nowiki>[1]</nowiki>] -- "[" is '''%5B''' and "]" is '''%5D'''. The web server will interpret the encoded characters the same way as the plain characters. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 11:12, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::When there are special characters in an author's name, you need to use the "altname" parameter with {{tl|A}}. If the characters are brackets they need to be encoded also. For example '''<code><nowiki>{{A|altName=Anita_Allen%5B1%5D|name=Anita Allen}}</nowiki></code>''' gives {{A|altName=Anita_Allen%5B1%5D|name=Anita Allen}}. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 14:23, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::When there are special characters in an author's name, you need to use the "altname" parameter with {{tl|A}}. If the characters are brackets they need to be encoded also. For example '''<code><nowiki>{{A|altName=Anita_Allen%5B1%5D|name=Anita Allen}}</nowiki></code>''' gives {{A|altName=Anita_Allen%5B1%5D|name=Anita Allen}}. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 14:23, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Here's a better example (one I can link to): look at "Crack of Doom" under Serials on the {{A|John Brunner}} summary page. It just doesn't look right. Then look at how I handled "Black World" on the {{A|Raymond A. Palmer}} page. [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:16, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Here's a better example (one I can link to): look at "Crack of Doom" under Serials on the {{A|John Brunner}} summary page. It just doesn't look right. Then look at how I handled "Black World" on the {{A|Raymond A. Palmer}} page. [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:16, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Another example: "Minotaur in a Mushroom Maze" by Richard and {{A|Nancy Carrigan}}. Only the second part of the serial was on the worklist and someone marked it OK, but it doesn't appear to be. [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:44, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Another example: "Minotaur in a Mushroom Maze" by Richard and {{A|Nancy Carrigan}}. Only the second part of the serial was on the worklist and someone marked it OK, but it doesn't appear to be. [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:44, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::My understanding was that if there was no book publication, there was no need to create a placeholder record for the work as a whole, and the existing serial variants were fine. I marked all such as OK. The "instructions" say "''In some cases, these Serials were published pseudonymously and have not appeared in book form. These Serial records are currently VT'd to the Serial's author's (or authors') canonical name(s) and should be kept 'as is'.''" I followed that. I marked "Minotaur in a Mushroom Maze" OK, as as I understand things, it IS ok. There is no book publication under the canonical author, so a serial is used to place each installment under the canonical author. It appears that the various installments were published with different author credits (unless #2 was incorrectly entered here). The 2nd part is entered in {{P|ANLGJUN76|Analog June 76}} as by "Richard Carrigan" (without the A.) The other parts are entered as by "Richard A. Carrigan". Unless this is a data entry error, or I have misunderstood the purpose of the "Serial Clenaup" I see no reason for any correction in this case. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 14:23, 2 September 2009 (UTC) (The odd thing is that I once owned a copy of this issue -- I remember the cover and the lead story -- But I don't think I still have it. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 14:28, 2 September 2009 (UTC))</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::My understanding was that if there was no book publication, there was no need to create a placeholder record for the work as a whole, and the existing serial variants were fine. I marked all such as OK. The "instructions" say "''In some cases, these Serials were published pseudonymously and have not appeared in book form. These Serial records are currently VT'd to the Serial's author's (or authors') canonical name(s) and should be kept 'as is'.''" I followed that. I marked "Minotaur in a Mushroom Maze" OK, as as I understand things, it IS ok. There is no book publication under the canonical author, so a serial is used to place each installment under the canonical author. It appears that the various installments were published with different author credits (unless #2 was incorrectly entered here). The 2nd part is entered in {{P|ANLGJUN76|Analog June 76}} as by "Richard Carrigan" (without the A.) The other parts are entered as by "Richard A. Carrigan". Unless this is a data entry error, or I have misunderstood the purpose of the "Serial Clenaup" I see no reason for any correction in this case. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 14:23, 2 September 2009 (UTC) (The odd thing is that I once owned a copy of this issue -- I remember the cover and the lead story -- But I don't think I still have it. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 14:28, 2 September 2009 (UTC))</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::::That's right, the current plan is not to create placeholder Novel Titles if a serial hasn't appeared in book form. There are arguments for and against placeholder Novel Titles for Serials, especially in complicated circumstances involving pseudonyms, but I figured that we had enough on our plate as it was to open yet another can of worms at this time :) In addition, determining whether a Serial has been reprinted as a book under a different title is not always straightforward (I set up a couple last night after reviewing the Archive page), but that's always been the case. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:56, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Missing serial variants ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Missing serial variants ==</div></td></tr>
</table>Ahasuerushttps://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB_talk:Serial_Cleanup&diff=165624&oldid=prevMhhutchins: /* Missing serial variants */2009-09-02T19:56:00Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Missing serial variants</span></span></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 19:56, 2 September 2009</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Missing serial variants ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Missing serial variants ==</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was looking at {{A|Poul Anderson}}'s page and noticed the serial "A Plague of Masters" which already had a variant under ''Earthman, Come Home'' but was not a variant itself of that parent record. It wasn't on any of the lists generated for this project. Seems like it should have been. Or will the software change find these and make variants of them to a parent record? [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:40, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was looking at {{A|Poul Anderson}}'s page and noticed the serial "A Plague of Masters" which already had a variant under ''Earthman, Come Home<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">!</ins>'' but was not a variant itself of that parent record. It wasn't on any of the lists generated for this project. Seems like it should have been. Or will the software change find these and make variants of them to a parent record? [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:40, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:In this case we have two Serial records which are set up as Variant Titles of a non-VT Novel record, a combination that our Serial cleanup scripts didn't search for. The scripts were interested in (inquisitive little critters that they are):</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:In this case we have two Serial records which are set up as Variant Titles of a non-VT Novel record, a combination that our Serial cleanup scripts didn't search for. The scripts were interested in (inquisitive little critters that they are):</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:*Serials VT'd to Novels or Shortfiction records which were, in their turn, VT's of other records</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:*Serials VT'd to Novels or Shortfiction records which were, in their turn, VT's of other records</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Assuming that these Anderson records haven't changed over the last month, they were already OK when we started. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:42, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Assuming that these Anderson records haven't changed over the last month, they were already OK when we started. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:42, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::So the software change would have had no effect on this particular serial, because its title ("A Plague of Masters") didn't match the parent record (''Earthman, Come Home!'') and it only matched a variant (the novel appeared as "A Plague of Masters" in an omnibus.) Right? If that's correct then these would have had to have been matched manually regardless of the software, just like some serials with non-matching names that have never been made variants to book titles, like another one I found while doing these serial fixes (Simak's serial "Time Quarry" to his novel ''Time and Again''). [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 19:55, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== serials in non-genre magazines ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== serials in non-genre magazines ==</div></td></tr>
</table>Mhhutchinshttps://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB_talk:Serial_Cleanup&diff=165622&oldid=prevAhasuerus: /* serials in non-genre magazines */ Fmt2009-09-02T19:42:49Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">serials in non-genre magazines: </span> Fmt</span></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 19:42, 2 September 2009</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l86" >Line 86:</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:As I was about to sign the above, i did some further checking. I found [http://www.caldicott.demon.co.uk/lee.htm this list of issues] and [http://www.philsp.com/homeville/BJSP/b52.htm#A240 this list of issues with contents]. I will be entering these after all. However, my general point above stands, with the caveat that one shouldn't give up to quickly on finding the required data. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 16:22, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:As I was about to sign the above, i did some further checking. I found [http://www.caldicott.demon.co.uk/lee.htm this list of issues] and [http://www.philsp.com/homeville/BJSP/b52.htm#A240 this list of issues with contents]. I will be entering these after all. However, my general point above stands, with the caveat that one shouldn't give up to quickly on finding the required data. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 16:22, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::True, there have been cases when we had to correct our data because we later discovered that there was a skipped/combined issue or the magazine changed frequency (or even its title) half way through. When we know the start and the end dates, the safe thing to do would be to create the "(Part 1 of 19)" and the "(Part 19 of 19)" pubs and leave a note at the Title level. If the number of "in-between" issues is low, say 1-2, and the missing dates can be guessed with a very high probability of success, typically when dealing with major magazines/newspapers (like ''Time'') which appear(ed) very consistently<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">)</del>, it's probably safe to guess as long as we record the guess in Notes, but guessing the dates and titles of 17 issues is probably too risky. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:30, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::True, there have been cases when we had to correct our data because we later discovered that there was a skipped/combined issue or the magazine changed frequency (or even its title) half way through. When we know the start and the end dates, the safe thing to do would be to create the "(Part 1 of 19)" and the "(Part 19 of 19)" pubs and leave a note at the Title level. If the number of "in-between" issues is low, say 1-2, and the missing dates can be guessed with a very high probability of success, typically when dealing with major magazines/newspapers (like ''Time'') which appear(ed) very consistently, it's probably safe to guess as long as we record the guess in Notes, but guessing the dates and titles of 17 issues is probably too risky. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:30, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>Ahasuerushttps://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB_talk:Serial_Cleanup&diff=165621&oldid=prevAhasuerus: /* Missing serial variants */ The current relationship is already OK2009-09-02T19:42:06Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Missing serial variants: </span> The current relationship is already OK</span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was looking at {{A|Poul Anderson}}'s page and noticed the serial "A Plague of Masters" which already had a variant under ''Earthman, Come Home'' but was not a variant itself of that parent record. It wasn't on any of the lists generated for this project. Seems like it should have been. Or will the software change find these and make variants of them to a parent record? [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:40, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was looking at {{A|Poul Anderson}}'s page and noticed the serial "A Plague of Masters" which already had a variant under ''Earthman, Come Home'' but was not a variant itself of that parent record. It wasn't on any of the lists generated for this project. Seems like it should have been. Or will the software change find these and make variants of them to a parent record? [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:40, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:In this case we have two Serial records which are set up as Variant Titles of a non-VT Novel record, a combination that our Serial cleanup scripts didn't search for. The scripts were interested in (inquisitive little critters that they are):</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:*Serials VT'd to other Serials, and</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:*Serials VT'd to Novels or Shortfiction records which were, in their turn, VT's of other records</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:Assuming that these Anderson records haven't changed over the last month, they were already OK when we started. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:42, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== serials in non-genre magazines ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== serials in non-genre magazines ==</div></td></tr>
</table>Ahasuerushttps://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB_talk:Serial_Cleanup&diff=165619&oldid=prevAhasuerus: /* serials in non-genre magazines */ Mostly agree2009-09-02T19:30:46Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">serials in non-genre magazines: </span> Mostly agree</span></p>
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</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l78" >Line 78:</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The "Malformed" section currently has a list of "The following need to have pub records created for serials in non-genre magazines." I think there may be a problem of data in doing that.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The "Malformed" section currently has a list of "The following need to have pub records created for serials in non-genre magazines." I think there may be a problem of data in doing that.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>For example i just checked out {{T|994323|In Polar Seas}}. The title note says "First published as a 19-part serial in The Nelson Lee Library, October 16, 1915 - February 19, 1916." Galactic Central has [http://www.philsp.com/data/data232.html#NELSONLEELIBRARY0 a listing for the Nelson Lee Library], and OCLC has 5 records for it (223170652, 221562899, 220351018, 317998933, & 317998931). These agree that it was published in the period given, with weekly <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">frequencey</del>. But neither gives specific issue dates or contents. By [Help:Entering non-genre magazines#Required data|our current standards]] I don't think that is enough to create db entries for these issues. ("''If the date is not reliably known with sufficient precision to identify a specific issue, do not create an entry for the magazine.''"). While I could find a calender for 1915-16, and assume that the day of the week was always the same as one of the few specified dates of issue, and further assume that the serial appeared in every issue in sequence without fail, I am not willing to make an entry with that high a ratio of assumption to data. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>For example i just checked out {{T|994323|In Polar Seas}}. The title note says "First published as a 19-part serial in The Nelson Lee Library, October 16, 1915 - February 19, 1916." Galactic Central has [http://www.philsp.com/data/data232.html#NELSONLEELIBRARY0 a listing for the Nelson Lee Library], and OCLC has 5 records for it (223170652, 221562899, 220351018, 317998933, & 317998931). These agree that it was published in the period given, with weekly <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">frequency</ins>. But neither gives specific issue dates or contents. By [Help:Entering non-genre magazines#Required data|our current standards]] I don't think that is enough to create db entries for these issues. ("''If the date is not reliably known with sufficient precision to identify a specific issue, do not create an entry for the magazine.''"). While I could find a calender for 1915-16, and assume that the day of the week was always the same as one of the few specified dates of issue, and further assume that the serial appeared in every issue in sequence without fail, I am not willing to make an entry with that high a ratio of assumption to data. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:As I was about to sign the above, i did some further checking. I found [http://www.caldicott.demon.co.uk/lee.htm this list of issues] and [http://www.philsp.com/homeville/BJSP/b52.htm#A240 this list of issues with contents]. I will be entering these after all. However, my general point above stands, with the caveat that one shouldn't give up to quickly on finding the required data. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 16:22, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:As I was about to sign the above, i did some further checking. I found [http://www.caldicott.demon.co.uk/lee.htm this list of issues] and [http://www.philsp.com/homeville/BJSP/b52.htm#A240 this list of issues with contents]. I will be entering these after all. However, my general point above stands, with the caveat that one shouldn't give up to quickly on finding the required data. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 16:22, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::True, there have been cases when we had to correct our data because we later discovered that there was a skipped/combined issue or the magazine changed frequency (or even its title) half way through. When we know the start and the end dates, the safe thing to do would be to create the "(Part 1 of 19)" and the "(Part 19 of 19)" pubs and leave a note at the Title level. If the number of "in-between" issues is low, say 1-2, and the missing dates can be guessed with a very high probability of success, typically when dealing with major magazines/newspapers (like ''Time'') which appear(ed) very consistently), it's probably safe to guess as long as we record the guess in Notes, but guessing the dates and titles of 17 issues is probably too risky. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:30, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Ahasuerushttps://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB_talk:Serial_Cleanup&diff=165609&oldid=prevDESiegel60: /* serials in non-genre magazines */ fmt2009-09-02T16:23:06Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">serials in non-genre magazines: </span> fmt</span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>For example i just checked out {{T|994323|In Polar Seas}}. The title note says "First published as a 19-part serial in The Nelson Lee Library, October 16, 1915 - February 19, 1916." Galactic Central has [http://www.philsp.com/data/data232.html#NELSONLEELIBRARY0 a listing for the Nelson Lee Library], and OCLC has 5 records for it (223170652, 221562899, 220351018, 317998933, & 317998931). These agree that it was published in the period given, with weekly frequencey. But neither gives specific issue dates or contents. By [Help:Entering non-genre magazines#Required data|our current standards]] I don't think that is enough to create db entries for these issues. ("''If the date is not reliably known with sufficient precision to identify a specific issue, do not create an entry for the magazine.''"). While I could find a calender for 1915-16, and assume that the day of the week was always the same as one of the few specified dates of issue, and further assume that the serial appeared in every issue in sequence without fail, I am not willing to make an entry with that high a ratio of assumption to data. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>For example i just checked out {{T|994323|In Polar Seas}}. The title note says "First published as a 19-part serial in The Nelson Lee Library, October 16, 1915 - February 19, 1916." Galactic Central has [http://www.philsp.com/data/data232.html#NELSONLEELIBRARY0 a listing for the Nelson Lee Library], and OCLC has 5 records for it (223170652, 221562899, 220351018, 317998933, & 317998931). These agree that it was published in the period given, with weekly frequencey. But neither gives specific issue dates or contents. By [Help:Entering non-genre magazines#Required data|our current standards]] I don't think that is enough to create db entries for these issues. ("''If the date is not reliably known with sufficient precision to identify a specific issue, do not create an entry for the magazine.''"). While I could find a calender for 1915-16, and assume that the day of the week was always the same as one of the few specified dates of issue, and further assume that the serial appeared in every issue in sequence without fail, I am not willing to make an entry with that high a ratio of assumption to data. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:As I was about to sign the above, i did some further checking. I found [http://www.caldicott.demon.co.uk/lee.htm this list of issues] and [http://www.philsp.com/homeville/BJSP/b52.htm#A240 this list of issues with contents. I will be entering these after all. However, my general point above stands, with the caveat that one shouldn't give up to quickly on finding the required data. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 16:22, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:As I was about to sign the above, i did some further checking. I found [http://www.caldicott.demon.co.uk/lee.htm this list of issues] and [http://www.philsp.com/homeville/BJSP/b52.htm#A240 this list of issues with contents<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">]</ins>. I will be entering these after all. However, my general point above stands, with the caveat that one shouldn't give up to quickly on finding the required data. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 16:22, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>DESiegel60https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB_talk:Serial_Cleanup&diff=165608&oldid=prevDESiegel60: /* serials in non-genre magazines */ new section2009-09-02T16:22:45Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">serials in non-genre magazines: </span> new section</span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was looking at {{A|Poul Anderson}}'s page and noticed the serial "A Plague of Masters" which already had a variant under ''Earthman, Come Home'' but was not a variant itself of that parent record. It wasn't on any of the lists generated for this project. Seems like it should have been. Or will the software change find these and make variants of them to a parent record? [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:40, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was looking at {{A|Poul Anderson}}'s page and noticed the serial "A Plague of Masters" which already had a variant under ''Earthman, Come Home'' but was not a variant itself of that parent record. It wasn't on any of the lists generated for this project. Seems like it should have been. Or will the software change find these and make variants of them to a parent record? [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:40, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== serials in non-genre magazines ==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The "Malformed" section currently has a list of "The following need to have pub records created for serials in non-genre magazines." I think there may be a problem of data in doing that.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">For example i just checked out {{T|994323|In Polar Seas}}. The title note says "First published as a 19-part serial in The Nelson Lee Library, October 16, 1915 - February 19, 1916." Galactic Central has [http://www.philsp.com/data/data232.html#NELSONLEELIBRARY0 a listing for the Nelson Lee Library], and OCLC has 5 records for it (223170652, 221562899, 220351018, 317998933, & 317998931). These agree that it was published in the period given, with weekly frequencey. But neither gives specific issue dates or contents. By [Help:Entering non-genre magazines#Required data|our current standards]] I don't think that is enough to create db entries for these issues. ("''If the date is not reliably known with sufficient precision to identify a specific issue, do not create an entry for the magazine.''"). While I could find a calender for 1915-16, and assume that the day of the week was always the same as one of the few specified dates of issue, and further assume that the serial appeared in every issue in sequence without fail, I am not willing to make an entry with that high a ratio of assumption to data. </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:As I was about to sign the above, i did some further checking. I found [http://www.caldicott.demon.co.uk/lee.htm this list of issues] and [http://www.philsp.com/homeville/BJSP/b52.htm#A240 this list of issues with contents. I will be entering these after all. However, my general point above stands, with the caveat that one shouldn't give up to quickly on finding the required data. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 16:22, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>DESiegel60https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB_talk:Serial_Cleanup&diff=165607&oldid=prevMhhutchins: /* Malformed serial titles */ temporary fix?2009-09-02T15:54:14Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Malformed serial titles: </span> temporary fix?</span></p>
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</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l23" >Line 23:</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::There are also occasional cases where a story was originally published pseudonymously and then re-serialized under the author's real name, but no book publication ever appeared. We don't have a good way of handling these case short of creating placeholder Novel Titles, but at least they are (thankfully) rare. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:39, 28 August 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::There are also occasional cases where a story was originally published pseudonymously and then re-serialized under the author's real name, but no book publication ever appeared. We don't have a good way of handling these case short of creating placeholder Novel Titles, but at least they are (thankfully) rare. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:39, 28 August 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::What would happen if we implemented the software change and the title records in the Malformed serial titles list had not been changed? Or would there be a problem to temporarily change the serials in non-genres magazines to NOVEL type? Or if we temporarily change those Grantville Gazettes pieces to SHORTFICTION type? [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 15:54, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:For example "Under the Moons of Mars" as by "Norman Bean" had been fixed. Now it is listed as being "malformed". Is the only problem that the "p" in "part" is not "P"? -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 14:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:For example "Under the Moons of Mars" as by "Norman Bean" had been fixed. Now it is listed as being "malformed". Is the only problem that the "p" in "part" is not "P"? -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 14:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>Mhhutchinshttps://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB_talk:Serial_Cleanup&diff=165596&oldid=prevDESiegel60: /* Are these really OK? */2009-09-02T14:28:46Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Are these really OK?</span></span></p>
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</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l63" >Line 63:</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::I couldn't get it to work through the '''<nowiki>{{A}}</nowiki>''' template, but in a plain link you can encode the braces: <pre>[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Anita%20Allen%5B1%5D Anita Allen&lt;nowiki&gt;[1]&lt;/nowiki&gt;]</pre></div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::I couldn't get it to work through the '''<nowiki>{{A}}</nowiki>''' template, but in a plain link you can encode the braces: <pre>[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Anita%20Allen%5B1%5D Anita Allen&lt;nowiki&gt;[1]&lt;/nowiki&gt;]</pre></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::to get [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Anita%20Allen%5B1%5D Anita Allen<nowiki>[1]</nowiki>] -- "[" is '''%5B''' and "]" is '''%5D'''. The web server will interpret the encoded characters the same way as the plain characters. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 11:12, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::to get [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Anita%20Allen%5B1%5D Anita Allen<nowiki>[1]</nowiki>] -- "[" is '''%5B''' and "]" is '''%5D'''. The web server will interpret the encoded characters the same way as the plain characters. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 11:12, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::When there are special characters in an author's name, you need to use the "altname" parameter with {{tl|A}}. If the characters are brackets they need to be encoded also. For example '''<code><nowiki>{{A|altName=Anita_Allen%5B1%5D|name=Anita Allen}}</nowiki><code>''' gives {{A|altName=Anita_Allen%5B1%5D|name=Anita Allen}}. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 14:23, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::When there are special characters in an author's name, you need to use the "altname" parameter with {{tl|A}}. If the characters are brackets they need to be encoded also. For example '''<code><nowiki>{{A|altName=Anita_Allen%5B1%5D|name=Anita Allen}}</nowiki><<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">/</ins>code>''' gives {{A|altName=Anita_Allen%5B1%5D|name=Anita Allen}}. -[[User:DESiegel60|DES]] <sup>[[User talk:DESiegel60|Talk]]</sup> 14:23, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Here's a better example (one I can link to): look at "Crack of Doom" under Serials on the {{A|John Brunner}} summary page. It just doesn't look right. Then look at how I handled "Black World" on the {{A|Raymond A. Palmer}} page. [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:16, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Here's a better example (one I can link to): look at "Crack of Doom" under Serials on the {{A|John Brunner}} summary page. It just doesn't look right. Then look at how I handled "Black World" on the {{A|Raymond A. Palmer}} page. [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:16, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Another example: "Minotaur in a Mushroom Maze" by Richard and {{A|Nancy Carrigan}}. Only the second part of the serial was on the worklist and someone marked it OK, but it doesn't appear to be. [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:44, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Another example: "Minotaur in a Mushroom Maze" by Richard and {{A|Nancy Carrigan}}. Only the second part of the serial was on the worklist and someone marked it OK, but it doesn't appear to be. [[User:Mhhutchins|MHHutchins]] 04:44, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
</table>DESiegel60