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Expanded archive listing

Publisher information

● I need to know if I’m doing this right. While updating the late author Gary Brandner’s page I entered this edition. I would like to know if I entered the publisher correctly. Was the publisher iUniverse, Backinprint.com, iUniverse / Backinprint.com, etc.? MLB 19:39, 1 May 2022 (EDT)

One person's not particularly educated opinion: From this archived backinprint.com page, it sounds to me like iUniverse is technically the publisher: they provided the electronic source to Backinprint.com; they paid the royalties to the authors; authors granted the publication rights to them. So I think Backinprint.com would be more like an imprint, in which case the names you used should be swapped around (our format is Imprint / Publisher) to be "Backinprint.com / iUniverse". --MartyD 09:57, 4 May 2022 (EDT)

Okay. MLB 02:53, 5 May 2022 (EDT)

Question on Printer's key

I am new here so I am not sure if this information is somewhere (searched but couldn't find) or has been answered but... Looking at 'Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone' (Publication Record # 215741), the Notes has:

30th printing. Printing line goes 35 34 33 32 31 30 9/9 0/0 01 02 Assuming that means this is from 2002.

The record has the date as 2002-00-00.

The way I read the date part of the printing line is this is a 1999 publication date.

Which should it be? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stealth DBA (talk • contribs) . 15:31, 2 May 2022 (EDT)

The publisher, Scholastic, uses an uncommon "printer's key" system. To quote this Web page:

• 7 8 9 0/0 . . .would indicate 1997
• 8 9 0/0 . . .is 1998
• 9 0/0 . . .is 1999, etc.

In other words, your hypothesis was correct and the publication year is 1999. Also see this ISFDB publication record for the printer's key of the first (1998) printing of this edition, which uses "8 9/9 0/0 01 02". Ahasuerus 10:34, 3 May 2022 (EDT)

P.S. I have updated Template:PublicationFields:PubNote to link to this resource. Ahasuerus 10:40, 3 May 2022 (EDT)

Although it's Scholastic-specific, what do you (or does everyone) think about also including this in that list? --MartyD 09:42, 4 May 2022 (EDT)

Given the growing number of links to third party Web pages, we may want to create a new Help template for "Number Line/Printer's Key". It would include a more in-depth explanation of the concept as well as a list of external links. Ahasuerus 12:46, 4 May 2022 (EDT)

The Book of the SubGenius

If I were to add it, what would it be? I want to call it nonfiction. If you don't know what it is, you can check it out here. --Rosab618 21:42, 5 May 2022 (EDT)

I would enter it as fiction. It's fictional non-fiction, which is entered as fiction. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:12, 6 May 2022 (EDT)

Archiving

Is there an optimum page size for talk page archives? I planned to move approximately 220,000. After seeing the warning, I cut that in half to 108,000. That seems small. I want to get the sizing correct and stay consistent as I add pages.John Scifibones 20:13, 7 May 2022 (EDT)

It is usually most convenient to go by some easy-to-understand/easy-to-remember period size, rather than worrying about page size. This MediaWiki software edition is very old, and some of its concepts of what might result in poor performance are no longer quite in tune with the state of modern hardware and browsers. Something like annual is a good place to start. If that looks way too big, then semiannual. Or if it looks very small, then biennial might be better. --MartyD 11:01, 8 May 2022 (EDT)

Thanks for the clarification, John Scifibones 12:18, 8 May 2022 (EDT)

Yeah, just ignore that warning. It's from a decade-old version of the software. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:02, 9 May 2022 (EDT)

The warning is somewhat valid only for very old browsers which had issues with long POSTs. As most people do not use them anymore and most edits are in a thread and not using a full page edit, the warning is really superfluous but is still there for the unlikely case when you somehow have a functioning browser which has the issue and you are doing a full edit. As long as you can see all of the moved ones into the archive, you are fine - warnings or not. Annie 13:18, 9 May 2022 (EDT)

Changing Author/artist name

Artist Libby Vanderploeg https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?295299 should actually be VanderPloeg I have become convinced; the two NYTimes credits were in uppercase, and I don't know where "These Witches Don't Burn" credit came from, but https://www.isabelsterling.com/press-kit> says VanderPloeg. However when I try to change the name in the publication pages,it defaults back to saving it as Vanderploeg. I think somebody needs to change the name on the author page. Thanks. gzuckier 00:51, 10 May 2022 (EDT)

Agreed & changed (indeed, on the author page). Also added a link to her website. Thanks, --Willem 03:54, 10 May 2022 (EDT)

How do chapbooks work?

After creating a chapbook, do I turn the contents into SHORTFICTION? How do I get it to show up as both a chapbook and shortfiction, like You Better Come Home with Me by John Lawson (I)?--Rosab618 06:49, 15 May 2022 (EDT)

Think of chapbooks as collections limited to one work of fiction (shortfiction, poem, or serial). The content title record should have the same name as the chapbook container and publication title. Here is the relevant help section. Related information (length, series, reviews, awards, etc) are entered in or attached to the content title record, not the chapbook container.

A couple comments re: Derek the Dust Particle.

• Since the short story 'Derek the Dust Particle' does not exist, enter it using edit publication.
• The juvenile flag should be set for both the container title and the new short story title.
• Worldcat claims this is #1 in the publication series
• Double check the format of your price

Hope this help. John Scifibones 08:46, 15 May 2022 (EDT)

I'm still confused. I tried changing it into short fiction before, but then it didn't show up as a chapbook on the author's page. Should it show up as a chapbook, as well as short fiction? Is creating chapbooks a two-step process (creating it, then turning the contents into short fiction)?

And what do you mean about the format of the price? —Rosab618 13:06, 15 May 2022 (EDT)

I did the first two steps on the list for you. I created the content title step 1. Then I set the juvenile flags step 2a & step 2b. All could have been done in your original submission except setting the flag on the content title. It's not visible in the new pub screen. It is a two step process if you are importing an existing content title. Is it clearer after seeing what I did? John Scifibones 14:22, 15 May 2022 (EDT)

Yes. Your actions showed me, not your words. --Rosab618 15:40, 15 May 2022 (EDT)

How to add entries for short stories that are part of a magazine issue

I am completely stumped, so any help/pointers would be appreciated.

I noticed that Charles S. Wolfe has a number of short stories published in Electrical Experimenter (and Science and Invention) which are missing from the database, so I wanted to add them. After some digging around, it looks like the magazine issues are missing, so I think I need to start there, but how?

One specific example: Electrical Experimenter exists - check Issue from October 1920 does not - need to add it, but I cannot figure out how to do this Story "Loaded Line" by Charles S. Wolfe (and Electric Shoes by J. Mac-Richard) need to be added to that issue - again,I can't figure out how. —The preceding unsigned comment added by Kkz (talk • contribs) 22:07, 15 May 2022

EDIT: OK, further digging and I see I can "Add New Magazine", and the stories as part of that. But how do I connect it to the over-arching "Electrical Experimenter 1920" group? Or is that automatic when I do Add from that page? —The preceding unsigned comment added by Kkz (talk • contribs) 22:14, 15 May 2022

Hi, and welcome. To do that, you would enter the October 1920 issue first, using Add New Magazine as you discovered. Note that this is a non-genre magazine, so there are some special standards for how it should be entered. See Help:Entering_non-genre_periodicals for how to do that. Once that submission has been accepted, a second submission is needed to merge the October 1920 EDITOR record that will be created into the existing Electrical Experimenter - 1920 "group" (which is really just a single EDITOR record used to represent 1920). Feel free to try -- submissions are moderated, so you cannot do any harm. The moderator processing the submission will help address anything that is not as it should be. --MartyD 07:27, 16 May 2022 (EDT)

Rotating Covers

So somehow I never noticed when editing an image to be uploaded to the Wiki that you can rotate it in addition to shrinking dimensions to 600 or less. I made an initial try with a cover I added from Amazon some time ago, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5321346, and while it's nice that the cover is now easy to see while still showing info on the spine it's clearly smaller. So is it common practice to add imperfect images from other sites because they're bigger, or rotate them to face forward but make them smaller and necessitate uploading to the Wiki? --Username 11:44, 19 May 2022 (EDT)

Rotating (and skewing) covers can be a pain if you don't have the right tools. I approved your change, but then fixed the perspective of the cover so it was straight on. You may have to force a refresh to see the updated cover image. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:35, 19 May 2022 (EDT)

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5325072; I made an edit adding page #'s from FantLab and replaced the cover, but Amazon's cover, which doesn't seem to exist on current Amazon anymore except as a tiny measured photo incorrectly added to the 2017 Shadow edition, is bigger and framed better. While trying to find a bigger one to upload to head off the usual grousing about unnecessarily replacing a cover image I tried the shadowpublishing.net page but just got a Wix message, and the archived page has a broken image, although with a little searching you can get the 2017 Shadow cover, which is totally different (and not on ISFDB). I finally found what I think is the only photo online that shows the spine clearly, but the photo is badly done, as can be seen at the link above. So my question is, can you zoom it up so cover is clear while still showing the full spine? --Username 13:55, 23 May 2022 (EDT)

We generally only include the spine (and the back cover) if it includes part of the front cover image. In this case, it's just a plain color, so there's really no reason to include it. It would violate fair use. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:59, 23 May 2022 (EDT)

Boy, in that case I hope nobody ever notices the MANY cover images I've entered which show the spine. When this edit is finally approved I'll restore the Amazon image, although it's still weird that the only place it seems to exist now is as a tiny photo incorrectly on the 2017 edition's Amazon page. --Username 19:20, 23 May 2022 (EDT)

Well, now you know, and knowing is half the battle (as they say). In the future, unless the cover image wraps around onto the spine or the spine and the back cover, please avoid adding images with the spine. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 21:13, 23 May 2022 (EDT)

Did some work on this a while back, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?34769, and today discovered the title, publisher and cover artist were wrong! I fixed those (cover artist as "Wayne Miller" needs to be merged after approval so it's as by M. Wayne Miller, I suppose) but this, [1], is the only online photo I can find that shows the full cover art. Too small now, but is there a way to crop out the book itself and enlarge the dustjacket so it can be uploaded? --Username 14:02, 27 May 2022 (EDT)

Foreign language serialized webnovel, published for the first time in book form as English translation?

I've been running into this situation more often with English translations of Japanese and Korean webnovels, and I'm not sure how to handle it on ISFDB.

So here's one example: the Japanese webnovel 竜の番のキノコ姫　～運命だと婚約破棄されたら、キノコの変態がやってきました～ / Ryuu no Ban no Kinoko Hime - Unmeita Dato Konyaku Hakisaretara, Kinoko no Hentai ga Yattekimashita was first published/serialized in 2020 on the prominent free Japanese webnovel site Syosetu. The original webnovel has NOT been published/collected into book form yet in Japanese. Now in 2022, the webnovel is being translated into English and published in multi-volume book form, with the first English volume released as The Dragon's Soulmate is a Mushroom Princess! Vol.1 (unknown number of the Japanese serial chapters that are being collected in each English book).

So how does this need to be added/indicated/varianted on ISFDB? Are the English volumes a series or a split novel? The Help:How to connect serials to titles page seems to suggest making the serialized work a variant of the novel title, but how can that be done while also making the English novel title a variant as a translation? Can the Japanese serial novel even be added as a publication since Syosetu is a free website? And other such questions, etc. Morebooks 11:34, 21 May 2022 (EDT)

Off the top of my head, other foreign-language serial webnovels that were published in translated English book form before being published in book form in their original languages: The Werewolf Count and the Trickster Tailor, Under the Oak Tree, and Beast Blood. Under the Oak Tree is also being serialized in English translation chapters on Webnovel.com, but I've no idea if that counts as a SFWA-qualifying market for ISFDB publication purposes. Morebooks 11:56, 21 May 2022 (EDT)

As per ISFDB:Policy#Rules_of_Acquisition, online serializations do not count as "being published" for ISFDB purposes unless they have been shortlisted for a major award or published by a SFWA-eligible market.

I have repeatedly run into this issue while working on Cross Infinite World. Apparently, the way they run their business is that they contact Japanese authors of online serials which haven't been published as a book, buy translation rights and publish the work in the US.

As far as I can tell the rules-compliant way to enter these kinds of books is to do what we did with this author: Enter the translated book as we would enter any other book, then turn it into a variant title of an "8888-00-00" (i.e. unpublished) Japanese novel. Any information about online serialization can be added to the parent title record as a note.

Personally, I am not thrilled about this approach, but that's what the rules appear to require at this time. Ahasuerus 21:51, 22 May 2022 (EDT)

Currency--Iranian Rial

On this entry I couldn't enter the actual symbol for Iranian Rial--﷼--because, Persian being a right-to-left language, the software won't let it be entered before the figures. I kept getting ﷼185,000. So I used "IRs 185,000", with the English translation of the symbol, since we don't use the currency codes (in this case IRR). I explained it in the Pub Note. The Iranian Rial isn't on the List of Currency Symbols help page. Is this the way to go with it, or is there a correction? When that's sorted out, the rial can be included on that list. (I see another book on the publisher's website that I want to enter.) MOHearn 09:23, 22 May 2022 (EDT)

Curious. Let me see what I can do at the software level. Ahasuerus 21:56, 22 May 2022 (EDT)

I have tried a few things, but nothing seemed to work to get "﷼" to display to the left of the numeric value. It looks like we'll have to use "IRs" for now. We'll need to keep this in mind when implementing FR 1158, "Allow multiple prices per publication". Ahasuerus 22:21, 22 May 2022 (EDT)

Thanks for looking into it. I'll stick with "IRs," then. MOHearn 07:19, 23 May 2022 (EDT)

A Sending of Dragons

For this edition of this Jane Yolen book, secondary sources disagree about the number of pages. WorldCat and Reginald3 say 184 p.; Locus and Amazon say 256. What should be done? --Rosab618 23:35, 23 May 2022 (EDT)

It looks like it's done correctly. It has notes that explain the discrepancy. Until someone gets a copy of that specific edition, we don't have a way to check to make sure. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:12, 24 May 2022 (EDT)

Should it be marked "verified" by any of those sources? --Rosab618 14:50, 25 May 2022 (EDT)

As Secondary verifications: yes. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:27, 25 May 2022 (EDT)

And even after we have a copy, a note explaining the page numbers discrepancy should stay. It happens a lot :) Annie 15:18, 27 May 2022 (EDT)

Stories by John Wyndham, adapted for younger readers

How should "Meteor: Short Stories" be entered? It's a collection of short stories by Wyndham, adapted by Patrick Nobes for children. How should the stories be entered? As by both? --Rosab618 14:55, 25 May 2022 (EDT)

Yes, they should be entered as by both. Make sure each story has a note on it explaining it's an edited version of the original story, for children. That way, people won't mistakenly try to variant them since they are different versions (and likely different lengths) than the originals. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:26, 25 May 2022 (EDT)

Thank you. --Rosab618 12:06, 26 May 2022 (EDT)

Turning a novel into a collection

I'm trying to turn The Monster of the Lagoon into a collection, with a novella and a novelette. How do I do this? --Rosab618 03:55, 27 May 2022 (EDT)

Edit the publication. Change the type to collection and then add a new title record from the type collection in the contents section - this will become the reference title of the book (this title is created automatically when you create a new collection but NOT on a conversion/edit as at this point we assume the reference title is there - so you need to make it yourself). Let me know if you want me to do it so you can look at my update or if you want to try yourself. Annie 15:17, 27 May 2022 (EDT)

Thanks! I thought I tried that yesterday and it didn't work, but today it did. ----Rosab618 17:17, 27 May 2022 (EDT)

You probably forgot to change the pub type or picked chapbook by mistake or something like tat - the changes need to go together - the publication won't save otherwise. It is one of the checks that make sure that the publication looks ok. :) Annie 18:13, 27 May 2022 (EDT)

I don't think so, but you never know. --Rosab618 12:29, 28 May 2022 (EDT)

Adding a cover image

I'm trying to upload an image. It's within the size limit and it's a jpeg, but every time I try to upload it, I'm told that it's too big. Can anyone explain the problem? --Rosab618 03:16, 31 May 2022 (EDT)

On the image page I get "BLNKCRDJML1977.jpg‎ (file size: 90 KB, MIME type: image/jp2)" at the top, followed by a warning "This file may contain malicious code, by executing it your system may be compromised".

Even though the extension is .jpg, the file seems to be .jp2 I guess the software can't handle this. --Willem 06:10, 31 May 2022 (EDT)

There were definitely some errors in the file. I've fixed them and uploaded the fixed version: here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:05, 31 May 2022 (EDT)

Thank you, but that's not the image I was trying to upload. I have a much bigger, clearer one. I can't figure it out. --Rosab618 00:07, 1 June 2022 (EDT)

There are two size limits:

1. Diminsions - 600px max is an ISFDB convention and is not enforced by the software.
2. File Size - there is also a maximum file size, this is enforced by the software.

It sounds like you are hitting the second one. You will need to edit the picture to reduce the resolution. Images should be only of sufficient resolution to identify the cover. They should not be high-res or otherwise allow a nice printing to made of them. ISFDB uses cover images under US copyright's "fair use" doctrine and anything too large violates that. -- JLaTondre (talk) 07:39, 1 June 2022 (EDT)

It's not too large—361 x 598 pixels. How do I reduce the resolution/file size? --Rosab618 10:16, 1 June 2022 (EDT)

As I said, there are two sizes. You are over the second. How to reduce it depends on your image editing software. You will need to check the help or Google instructions for whatever program you use. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:13, 1 June 2022 (EDT)

Where did you get the image? If you can point me to it, I'll be happy to make it the right size (file and dimensions) and upload it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:35, 1 June 2022 (EDT)

Thank you! I think it's this one, but I had cropped it nicely. Oh well. Thanks for your help! --Rosab618 20:21, 4 June 2022 (EDT)

It looks like that's the same as the one I added, but cropped slightly. You can see the same scuffing and reflections on it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:35, 7 June 2022 (EDT)

Thank you!--Rosab618 22:00, 11 June 2022 (EDT)

Hardwired: The Sourcebook

Can I add this book, by Walter Jon Williams? It's a supplement to a role-playing game, apparently. --Rosab618 22:27, 6 June 2022 (EDT)

Despite what the cover says, it's likely not written by Williams. There's likely a team of people who wrote the content in the book. Unless it has short fiction parts in it (like this one, for example), it shouldn't be added. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:38, 7 June 2022 (EDT)

I found a downloadable PDF of this sourcebook. Credits page state the author is Walter Jon Williams "with supplimental material by Mike Pondsmith" and "Netrunning suppliment by Pati Nagle" the copyright to R. Talsorian Games, Inc. is dated 1989. --Mavmaramis 02:04, 19 June 2022 (EDT)

What does it say on the title page? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:38, 20 June 2022 (EDT)

There is no title page - the copyright page is basically the title page, copyright and credits rolled into one - it's the first page after the cover and states "by Walter John Williams" --Mavmaramis 14:54, 21 June 2022 (EDT)

Strike Fighters, by Tom Willard

Yea or nay: do you think this series belongs on the db? It's in Reginald3.--Rosab618 23:06, 11 June 2022 (EDT)

Does anyone have an opinion? --Rosab618 16:58, 15 June 2022 (EDT)

The ninth book in the series, Death Squad, apparently has at least one airship in it, which would possibly make it science fiction. Not sure about any of the others. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:23, 15 June 2022 (EDT)

"It is not a balloon! It is an air ship! Balloons are for kiddiewinks!"

But what is the difference between an airship and a zeppelin?--Rosab618 21:08, 15 June 2022 (EDT)

Depends on how it's defined in the book. A zeppelin is a type of airship. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:38, 16 June 2022 (EDT)

Adding Open Library cover

I'm trying to add the cover here to the book's page, but how do I do it? --Rosab618 04:43, 12 June 2022 (EDT)

I'd do it by (right-)clicking on the image, save it somewhere and then upload it. Christian Stonecreek 08:52, 12 June 2022 (EDT)

But there's a way to just use the url. It has to be the right url, though. Which? --Rosab618 12:00, 12 June 2022 (EDT)

Not for this OL record. OL is linking to an image from archive.org which is not on our permitted list. -- JLaTondre (talk) 12:10, 12 June 2022 (EDT)

Page count rules: The Autumn Castle

While PVing The Autumn Castle I came across notes that seem to imply the rules for entering the page count is different than how I read the rules. The book has numbered pages up to 552, and does indeed include an excerpt. Has this changed over time? Should I submit an edit? (I haven't had much luck getting responses from Chavey recently). --Glenn 01:29, 13 June 2022 (EDT)

If I remember correctly the rules were just interpreted differently: in 2010 it was not usual to include excerpts (but allowed), today excerpts are included almost every time. Christian Stonecreek 02:07, 13 June 2022 (EDT)

The last numbered page should be used. See the first row in the table here. As a nice compromise to capture the spirit of what the other PVer wanted, if you add the excerpt as content, with the page number where it starts, the page count for the novel will be implied quite clearly. --MartyD 10:45, 13 June 2022 (EDT)

Alternate versions - forking series

Tamara Siler Jones (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?28698) published three novels in a series.

Years later, as Tambo Jones, she published versions of the same books, but broken into installments and forked. The first two books were broken into a total of 11 installments - one common installment to launch the series, and then five more installments in each branch of the series. The 'Red' Series is the original first two novels broken into installments. The 'Blue' series is a new, alternate branch. The Blue series continues into a third book (three more installments), while the Red series forks again, for two versions of the original third book (a Red version and an Orange version). A graphic that's much easier to follow is here: http://www.tambojones.com/2020/12/19/publishing-update/

The original novels are in ISFDB. The branched installments are not. My question: how should they be entered? 1. I've see an FAQ that for a novel broken into pieces, each piece should be entered as a novel. 2. I've seen info on how to handle alternate author names or book titles. 3. I have not see how to handle fully alternate versions (not just minor changes, but a new branch entirely). This is somewhat similar to Orson Scott Card's Ender/Bean (Shadow) split, but there the split storylines are consistent. Here, I believe they are mutually exclusive. Jones has provided different series names, but there's still the problem that, for example, the first installment is part one of two different series (three, if you count in the second fork).

I'm not sure I'm the person to enter all this, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling, since I think the writing in the books (original novels, at least) is excellent. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Evil Overlord (talk • contribs) . 09:21, 19 June 2022 (EDT)

Apologies for the delay in getting you feedback. The problem is complicated, and any organization attempt is going to be hampered by ISFDB's current limitations. Titles cannot be in more than one series, so you ultimately have to pick one (or none) and note the others. Series, however, can have sub-series. So one idea I have for you is that you could have the shared first installment in a higher-level/parent series, and then the subsequent installments could be in branch-specific sub-series. For the jumping-off point, you might need to invent a series. For example, using her terminology and organization, you might have something like:

Series: Dubric Multi-Timeline

1 Title: Weight of the Castellan's Curse

2a Series: Winter of Ghosts

2 Title: Protection of the Holy Knights

3 Title: The Seer of Truth

...

6 Title: A Film of Blindness

7 Series: The Stone Spies (1)

1 Title: The Well Diggers Son

...

2b Series: Ghosts in the Snow

2 Title: The Lord's Apparent Razor

3 Title: The Linen Maid's Choice

4: Series: Threads of Malice (1)

1 Title: Rabbits & Wasps

...

4 Series: The Valley (2)

1 Title: A Tale of Two Boys

2a Series: Pieces of the Valley

2 Title: The Secret of Cyprus Farms

...

2b Series: Valley of the Soul

2 Title: What the Camera Sees

...

(1) I can't tell from the diagram how these second series on the blue/red paths relate to the prior series on the same path. If they are not sub-series, then I think the best thing to do would be to make up parent series for the blue path and the red path, and then put the relevant series into them, in order. So something like:

Series: Dubric Multi-Timeline

1 Title: Weight of the Castellan's Curse

2a Series: Blue Path (but with a better name)

1 Series: Winter of Ghosts

<titles 2 - 6>

2 Series: The Stone Spies

<titles 1 - 3>

2b Series: Red Path (but with a better name)

1 Series Ghosts in the Snow

<titles 2 - 3>

2 Series: Thread of Malice

<titles 1 - 3>

3 Series: The Valley (2)

1 Title: A Tale of Two Boys

2a Series: Pieces of the Valley

<titles 2 - 4>

2b Series: Valley of the Soul

<titles 2 - 3>

(2) Here you would make up a name/series to hold that first title plus the sub-series. In my first example, the number on that made-up series is a proxy for that first title's position in the ongoing series, while the number on the title shows us it's the first at the branch point.

I hope that helps a little. Others may have some better ideas for you. --MartyD 12:52, 26 June 2022 (EDT)

Illustrator name misspelled

The author record for illustrator Emanuel Schongut has his last name misspelled as "Shongut". Could a moderator please correct the spelling to the correct "Schongut"? I noticed this while doing a pub update for The Exile of Ellendon. The Flickr link in the The Shepherd Is My Lord record confirms this spelling as well. Thanks! Phil 22:27, 20 June 2022 (EDT)

In the future, you can change these by editing the cover art title page and correcting the spelling. I've done these two. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:33, 21 June 2022 (EDT)

Thank you. I had the impression that author name changes required mod powers. Now I know. Phil 17:37, 21 June 2022 (EDT)

Changing the name on an author record requires a moderator. Changing the name of an author on a title record or publication record can be done by anyone. In this case, there was already a correct entry for Emanuel Schongut. The two wrong titles just needed to be edited to change them to the correct spelling. The only time an author record is changed is if 1) all titles under that author record need to be changed and 2) there isn't already a correct entry for the author. That is not the typical case. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:37, 21 June 2022 (EDT)

Varianting/organizing translated collections of The Murderbot Diaries series

Hi! I want to revive this discussion about organizing collections of the Murderbot Diaries, because it's gotten more complicated since then. Please let me know if I should've just replied to the original section instead of creating a new thread like this. Anyway, The Murderbot Diaries series currently has eight "main" titles in it: five novellas (1, 2, 3, 4, 6); two short stories (0, 4.1); and one novel (5). Because they're short fiction, international publishers translating the series often choose to publish the novellas and short stories collected together in various combinations. This blank title has collections containing 1-2 but that's it. It would be helpful to organize the collections together somehow by content so the series page isn't so confusingly cluttered. The current recommendation on the thread is to variant the novella/short story collections to this English collection with 1-4 (Title Record 2764245). That's not going to work forever as the series adds new novellas/short stories that are published in new collection combinations. Unless the plan is to make Title 2764245 the grab-all title for "everything in the Murderbot Diaries except for the full novels." Examples: the most expansive English collection under 2764245 right now is 829116 (1-4, 4.1). There have been translated collections that go beyond 829116, like 897039 (0-4, 4.1) and 891486 (0, 4.1, 6). If we variant those collections to 2764245, when Tor/Subterranean inevitably publish future new collection(s) containing 0 & 6+ of the ongoing series, we're going to have to move the variants to the new collection, or make the new collection a variant of 2764245, or give up and unvariant everything, etc. It feels like a ship of Theseus problem in terms of collection contents. Morebooks 14:58, 25 June 2022 (EDT)

The original discussion got moved to here.

The practice of making the pieces of a multi-part publication variants of the complete title is used for novels (I suppose it could be applied to other single works of shorter length) that are re-published as "split" publications in multiple volumes. It is somewhat akin to making serial installments variants of a single "complete novel" title. As far as I know, we do not apply that treatment to any sort of publication of collected works ("container" types: ANTHOLOGY, COLLECTION, OMNIBUS). The sort of cross-product examples you provide illustrate why: Any sort of compilation is not an atomic entity, but rather is a composite of other entities, and another compiler may choose to make another compilation using an orthogonal set of entities. I suppose an exception might be if the partial compilations were explicitly assembled/packaged as subsets of some complete compilation, with the content of those subsets combining to be the complete compilation. What you have here is not that case, however. We also do abuse anthology/collection variants a bit, where we make re-issues with slightly different contents (e.g., a story or two added or removed) variants of the original. It's usually done to try to indicate it's an alteration of the original compilation, as opposed to a newly-assembled compilation. --MartyD 08:48, 1 July 2022 (EDT)

Others will probably not like this idea (to put it mildly), but one thought I have is that OMNIBUS might work a little better here than COLLECTION. The benefit would be that each OMNIBUS record could indicate which pieces of the series it includes. Technically, an OMNIBUS should always contain at least one novel-length work previously published separately. Using it here would be a small abuse, since although the works were published as standalone, most of them are shortfiction and you will have compilations that do not include the novel-length ones. --MartyD 08:48, 1 July 2022 (EDT)

There are a lot of series like that - especially amongst the juvenile series but lately with novellas for adults as well. Awhile back we discussed allowing collections and anthologies to have the Contents field allowed to accommodate these cases (where we cannot use omnibus because there are only shorter forms). It did not get much support but that’s exactly where that would have come useful. If we allow this one to be omnibus, all the rest can be as well - and that opens the floodgates. If that’s what everyone wants, sure, let’s change the rules. But I am against breaking the rules for just one series - DB inconsistencies make the DB search harder to use as you will never know what to look for (and in which section on an author page). :) Annie 00:47, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

I would stick to using the dummy title in order to tie together the non-English publications, even if there doesn't exist an English original. That would mean there would have to be created a new dummy English title to collect, say, the first three novellas, and for any other combination that non-English publishers will publish - that way of working doesn't seem to be against the rules as far as I can tell (after all, it says 'only published as'). Yes, that would result in several collection titles, but that seems to be preferrable than trying to link all combinations to a single top-level English collection. To clean up the clutter, I suggest to create a title subseries like 'Murderbot Collections' or some such. Regards, MagicUnk 08:58, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

AND for this situation it would be REALLY GOOD (TM) if we could enter Content in the title record - to discriminate, we could retitle to 'The Murderbot Diaries (1,2)' or something similar... MagicUnk 09:05, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

The National Pastime: The Future According to Baseball

● I recently added The National Pastime: The Future According to Baseball to the books reviewed by Peter Heck in the July/August issue of Asimov’s. Should I list this publication on this site as a periodical, as an anthology, or should I just list the review as an essay, and not put this issue on the site at all? MLB 03:29, 9 July 2022 (EDT)

The latter. A book being reviewed in one of our magazines does not make it eligible to be added to the DB if it is not genre on its own. So you add the review in the magazine as an essay and not as a review. Annie 12:25, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

Consolidate or create?

I was hoping to verify an Ace edition of This Immortal by Roger Zelazny. There are two matches, based on ISBN and price. My copy has no date and a printer's key of simply "0". One edition is dated 1982-11-00 and the notes have Stated "Tenth Ace printing: November 1982" . The other edition is dated 1982-03 with no additional notes. The only primary verifier involved is no longer active. All edits are 10+ years old. Ace was not in a habit of re-using ISBNs, but it did happen. The previous edition (by ISBN) has the same publisher key of "0", but states "This Ace printing: October 1981". The next earlier (by ISBN) notes "This Ace printing: September 1980" Eighth printing by number line 8 0 9 but should only be the seventh by catalog # progression. The subsequent edition (by ISBN) simply notes 11th edition. Should I a) choose the earlier 1982-03-00 edition and add my notes or b) create another entry (undated) and note it as a variation of the 10th edition? ../Doug H 14:23, 9 July 2022 (EDT)

Capitol Cat & Watch Dog Unite Lady Freedoms

● I just added Capitol Cat & Watch Dog Unite Lady Freedoms to the databank, but, I don’t know if it is a chapterbook, or a picture book. Does anybody know before I add the rest, there are four of them, of them. Oh, and this is a different Janice Law than the mystery author. MLB 03:02, 14 July 2022 (EDT)

"Story by" author credits

The tp and ebook of Alien: Inferno's Fall were released yesterday, and I've just checked the Amazon preview to see if I can tidy up the title note w.r.t. author(s).

The title page of the ebook states "A novel by Philippa Ballantine / Story by Philippa Ballantine and Clara Carija". As such, I suspect this title and pubs should stay with Ballantine as the sole author entry (but with the notes updated appropriately) but I don't see this sort of thing explicitly referenced in Template:PublicationFields:Author. That page does mention cases like "Author A with Author B", saying that both should be credited, but I don't think that covers this particular case where story credits are separate from authorship.

(I imagine there are similar issues for novelizations that have a "Based on a screenplay by ..." credit?)

Thoughts? ErsatzCulture 13:38, 27 July 2022 (EDT)

I would treat it the same way we treat novelizations and book adaptations of other material. E.g., we credit the adaptation of the original Star Trek installments exclusively to James Blish, without regard for who came up with the actual stories. So your idea of sole Ballentine credit + recording Carija's contribution in the notes seems both appropriate and consistent with what we have done before. --MartyD 14:32, 27 July 2022 (EDT)

(after edit conflict) Novelizations frequently mention the authors/creators of the novelized work. When they do, the wording that they use is typically "Based on a story by X and Y" or simply "Story by X and Y". Sometimes it's more involved, e.g. the cover of the 1990 Avon edition of Piers Anthony's novelization of the movie Total Recall says "Based on a Screenplay by Ronald Shusett & Dan O'Bannon and Gary Goldman" and then "Screen Story by Ronald Shusett & Dan O'Bannon and Jon Povill". On the other hand, the William Morrow edition doesn't mention these people on the cover, but the title page says "Inspired by the works of Philip K. Dick and Ronald Shusett, Dan O'Bannon, Steven Pressfield" -- note that the credited people are different.

Sometimes we record this information in Notes, but we don't credit them in the "Author" field. Ahasuerus 14:40, 27 July 2022 (EDT)

Thanks both; I've updated the title and pub notes accordingly. I was going to update the help page I linked to earlier in this item as well, but it seems to be (mostly) composed of template strings, which I've not used before, so I've left as-is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ErsatzCulture (talk • contribs) 15:15 27 July 2022.

Templates are just text/code inserted into the pages embedding the template. A good spot to add it might be in the bullet about "with other writers" here. --MartyD 15:15, 28 July 2022 (EDT)

Artist records for Heffernan/David Heffernan -- same individual?

It appears that Heffernan is an alternate record for David Heffernan. (It appears that he signed his work as "Heffernan" (no first name), so books without an explicit artist credit, such as Dark of the Moon, are credited simply to "Heffernan", while books with a stated artist credit, such as Caught in Crystal had his first & last name listed. The block-lettering Heffernan signatures are very consistent between the two artist records; and the cover art for Yngwie Malmsteen's album Trilogy (front back) has a signature on the front that matches Dark of the Moon even more closely, and has an explicit David Heffernan credit on the back.

Assuming this is correct, what would be the best way to create some kind of link between the two artist records?

Thanks!

Joe H. 10:35, 28 July 2022 (EDT)

I made Heffernan an alternate name of David Heffernan. Thanks for finding this. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:18, 31 July 2022 (EDT)

Thank you! Joe H. 13:50, 3 August 2022 (EDT)

Math input question

(This is really meta for the real question I need to ask)

Are the <math></math> tags for LaTex as produced by the sqrt(n) button in the comment editor suppose to work? I'm having problems with their use just generating literal output.

--Glenn 18:36, 30 July 2022 (EDT)

No, it does not work. The ISFDB uses a really old version of Wikipedia and it also doesn't have all the necessary dependencies installed. I doubt anyone was expected to need the match function. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:14, 31 July 2022 (EDT)

Savage Realms Monthly

● Well, I did something wrong. Why can’t I get the May issue of Savage Realms Monthly to get into this series? MLB 00:30, 31 July 2022 (EDT)

Just merge the two titles. Two additional points; Magazines are dated by the cover date, not the date they become available. Always include the ASIN when publications have a '979' ISBN. John Scifibones 08:08, 31 July 2022 (EDT)

Boxed set format

When you're entering a boxed set as an omnibus, what should the format be? --Rosab618 13:51, 31 July 2022 (EDT)

Whatever is the format of the books inside of the boxed set. So a boxes set of 3 mass market paperbacks will be mass market paperback; a boxed set of hardcovers will be hardcover and so on. In case of a mix and match (2 hardcovers, 2 paperbacks for example), use "other" and add a note explaining the situation. :) Annie 14:22, 1 August 2022 (EDT)

Thanks, Annie! --Rosab618 17:21, 3 August 2022 (EDT)

{Now + n, Now - n} title formatting

The title of this story in Beyond the Safe Zone is given as "{NOW + n, NOW - n}" in the TOC, but on the actual story page it's rendered as (here's where <math> would have been handy):

"{" (two lines tall), "NOW + n" (on line 1), "NOW - n" (on line 2, directly below NOW + n), and finally "}" (two lines tall).

Is this different enough to drive an edit? If so, how should it be formatted. Or just note it (which I'm having troubles coming up with clear short description). --Glenn 22:50, 31 July 2022 (EDT)

Just add a note. We do not support html and other scripting in titles and you will need it to show something like that. You can note it exactly as you did here if you prefer. Annie 14:20, 1 August 2022 (EDT)

Two-part Cover term

Can someone please tell me what is the correct term for a two-part paperback cover where the top cover is about 85-90% the width of a full page and the inner cover is full sized? My Google-fu has failed me. Thanks! Phil 07:37, 8 August 2022 (EDT)

It's a stepback cover, and I don't know if that originated as a publishers' term or a collectors'/booksellers' one. I was only able to find the term stepback online because I dimly recalled it; at first I was recalling it as a gatefold, but I see that that's a cover folded back like a dust-cover flap, used on some upscale trade paperbacks (also a two-part LP cover/sleeve opening like a book). MOHearn 17:09, 10 August 2022 (EDT)

Thanks! Now that I know the term, I have been able to search out more info about it. It turns out that there is also a variation called a keyhole stepback cover where there is a die-cut/keyhole opening in the outer cover displaying a portion of the inner artwork. Overall, the stepback cover seems to be most heavily used for Romance novels. Here's a link to an interesting discussion of the history of the stepback cover. Phil 06:59, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

Deleting a bad cover upload

I messed up and uploaded a cover for the wrong publication. Here is the entry for the bad cover. How do I delete this incorrect upload? It isn't used anywhere. Phil 07:50, 8 August 2022 (EDT)

It's a moderator only function, I deleted it for you. John Scifibones 09:37, 8 August 2022 (EDT)

I guessed that would be the case! Thanks! Phil 15:26, 8 August 2022 (EDT)

Isaac Asimov's OPUS books.

The current entries for Asimov's Opus books (Opus 100, Opus 200 and Opus 300) all list them as COLLECTIONS. Each book is a set of selections and excerpts from 100 of his books, most of which are non-fiction and, in many cases non-genre. According to the HELP entry for NONFICTION - "A publication that contains both non-fiction and fiction should be typed by that which is predominant." The entry does not say whether this is by number of entries or by pages, but I believe it qualifies under both. I plan to convert these but would like to offer a chance for differing opinions before doing so. ../Doug H 12:57, 10 August 2022 (EDT)

Sounds like a good plan. Ahasuerus 14:30, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

Secondarily, there is one publication Opus: A Selection from the First 200 Books which is an omnibus of the first two titles. The definition indicates this is correct, whether these be COLLECTIONs or NONFICTIONs. However, the contents include not only the two COLLECTIONs, but also repeats their contents. I believe that this is incorrect and the latter should be removed. Again - any concerns? ../Doug H 12:57, 10 August 2022 (EDT)

Help:Screen:NewPub says:

• When recording an omnibus publication, please record all of its contents. If it contains one or more collections, please record both the collection titles and the individual short fiction or essay titles as part of the omnibus's contents.

so we should keep the individual stories. Note that this is done for two reasons:

• It lets users looking at a SHORTFICTON work's Title page see the omnibus publications which include the story.
• It lets us capture minor differences between the OMNIBUS pub and the COLLECTION pubs whose contents it reprints, e.g. added/removed ESSAYs.

Ahasuerus 14:30, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

Sorry, failed to look past the TYPE to CONTENTS. ../Doug H 23:57, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

Amaranth, magazine

Amaranth was supposed to be the first of a magazine series, but folded after one issue... shouldn't it still be a MAGAZINE, and not an ANTHOLOGY? Susan O'Fearna 00:54, 20 August 2022 (EDT)

If it was an issue of a magazine, then, yes. In a situation like this, if you have a source of information (be it the publication or something else) that documents this was an issue of a magazine, I encourage you to capture that information in the pub or title (or series) notes, just to help avoid future confusion. --MartyD 16:45, 24 August 2022 (EDT)

Battlestations / Battle Stations

Battlestations is how the cover, title and copyright page of my e-book copy has this book... can it be corrected? Susan O'Fearna 02:37, 20 August 2022 (EDT)

You are the only primary verifier, so if your copy has it as one word and you're verifying that, change it. It looks most likely to be a typo/spell-o vs. another form. If someone ever comes up with a copy having it as two words, that person can make a variant. --MartyD 16:41, 24 August 2022 (EDT)

Info about submitting info for a magazine series.

Hello. I am co-editor of a Brazilian magazine that pays homage to pulp magazines ("Histórias Extraordinárias" - [2] ). It publishes previously unreleased short stories in the Science Fiction, Supernatural and Cosmic Horror genres.

I have some questions that could be obvious for more experienced isfdb editors, but please bear with me :)

I want to submit the info about this magazine (5 issues published so far). Other than the short stories, it contains regular sections as:

(1) "Science Department" - essays about real-world scientific matters (actual robots, Mars probes, etc.). Should I include info about this section even if it "not speculative" in essence?

As it is in a genre magazine, EVERYTHING is eligible. So yes. This is similar to the science articles in Analog for example. Annie 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

(2) "Interviews" - interviews with people whose work may be related to the subject of one of the stories or with the author of one of the stories or someone who's in some way related to speculative fiction. Should I include this info when the interviewed person is not directly involved in speculative fiction? For example, in issue #1 a short story dealt with HAM radio, and the "Interview" section featured an experienced HAM radio user. It seems to me that this interview should not be included, but I could be wrong. Please advise.

See above :) You can add it just as a note in the notes of the publication but... technically it is eligible. Annie 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

(3) "HE Recommends" - Reviews and recommendations about speculative fiction in books, movies or TV series. Should I include the info about this section if they are not about literature (e.g. TV series or movies)? For example, In one issue we had a review about the works of Ted Chiang, in another about the "Severance" TV series. While the Ted Chiang one is a no-brainer, what about the later?

Genre Books reviews get added as reviews. Non-book and non-genre books get added as essays. See the help page and especially what is a review (aka books just being mentioned is NOT a review) and naming reviews as essays. Annie 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

I have the cover arts for all issues; is it possible to insert the cover art along with the data submission?

Not at the start unless it is in one of the places we can link to. Once the publication is approved , there will be a button to allow you to upload the cover to our DB and link it there (always a second step when adding books/magazines). Annie 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Thank you for your help. --Pugno 11:41, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Answers inline :) Let me know if any other clarifications are needed. Welcome to ISFDB! Annie 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Thanks for your patience and help! I have one more question: In one case, the magazine index indicates that a short story is at page 20; however, page 20 is a full-page artwork (related to the story) and the text effectively starts at page 21. Should I indicate page 20 for both or 20 and 21 respectively? Pugno 17:03, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

It will be 20|20.1 for the art and 20|20.2 for the story (so they stay in order). Help page: "If a magazine presents artwork for a story or essay preceding the piece's title page, and it is apparent that the art accompanies the text, the starting page of the story or essay should be the page number of the artwork which illustrates it. If you're creating content records for both the work and its illustration, they would have the same starting page.". See also the whole sorting section in that same link - it explains the usage of the | I used above. If you want, you can add a note in the publication note explaining where the text actually starts but it is not mandatory.

When you start adding the first issue, click on these question marks next to each field - these help pages have a lot of small tips like this one and will help you figure out how to do some things. Magazines are... complicated in the DB so if you need any more assistance, just ask :) Annie 17:56, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Stack dump when displaying verifier activity timestamps

In case you haven't seen these yet...

/var/www/cgi-bin/SQLparsing.py in GetLastWiki(user_id=14492L)
3083                         minutes = timestamp[10:12]
3084                         seconds = timestamp[12:14]
3085                         wiki_utc = datetime.strptime('%s-%s-%s %s:%s:%s' % (year, month, day, hours, minutes, seconds), '%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S')
3086                         timestamp = timegm(wiki_utc.timetuple())
3087                         last_wiki = datetime.fromtimestamp(timestamp)

wiki_utc undefined, datetime undefined, year = '2022', month = '08', day = '02', hours = '14', minutes = '19', seconds = '40' <type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'datetime' is not defined

when showing the verifiers on a publication page. --Glenn 16:10, 31 August 2022 (EDT)

It was a bug introduced in an earlier patch to support the server upgrade project. It should be fixed now. Ahasuerus 17:19, 31 August 2022 (EDT)

Is there a place I can read about the planned upgrades? --Glenn 18:45, 31 August 2022 (EDT)

Al has an overview of what's going on on his User page, User:Alvonruff. The details can be found over on User:Alvonruff/ISFDB_Move. Ahasuerus 20:45, 31 August 2022 (EDT)

Information for different printings

I was looking up Robert Heinlein's The Past Through Tomorrow (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?32045) and found two listings for the same ISBN (978-0-425-03178-0)- one for the seventh printing (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?308039) and one for the eighth printing (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?377711). The bulk of the information is naturally the same. Neither lists a print date.

My copy, as it turns out, is from the sixth printing, and lists a print date of "January, 1975". I'd like to add this information to the record, but found it confusing to have two entries for different printings of the same book, so I'm not eager to add a third. I didn't see a way to provide the 6th printing date in a comment on the others, so not sure what to do with this.

Evil Overlord

We add separate publication records for each printing. As there can be difference between printings, they are treated separately. You can clone one of the existing printings to make record for the sixth. -- JLaTondre (talk) 13:00, 4 September 2022 (EDT)

Stephen King "The Shining" Book Club Edition

Hi, I have a copy of Stephen King's "The Shining" which is a book club edition with the gutter code MP3DD. According to your posting, Doubleday discontinued the gutter code mid-1987 with CC. I don't see anywhere in the coding series where this code is identified. Any idea of when it was used? Thanks, Danelle

Sword of Ice and Other Tales of Valdemar

When entering a different printing for Sword of Ice and Other Tales of Valdemar, I noticed that the oldest pub record here is really for the 7th printing and should have a 0000-00-00 date. Changing it would leave us without a first printing record. Should I clone this pub and add the appropriate notes to make it the true 1997-01-00 first printing pub with the source being Locus1 and then update the existing pub to have the 0000-00-00 date and corrected notes? That would preserve the history of this record. The other choice would be to clone this pub with corrected notes to be the true 7th printing record and then update the original record to have the correct first printing data and notes. Thanks! Phil (talk) 08:00, 12 September 2022 (EDT)

The OCLC does not say anything about this being a 7th printing and looking at the history, it was made a 7th printing later. So I'd clean up this record and make it the real first and not bother with a 7th printing - when/if someone can verify, they can add it. We have no source for this 7th printing besides the record unless you are verifying a later one and you want to add it because it must exist after all. You may want to ping the editor who added the note about the 7th (here and see if they have the book and can verify eventually so we have a source... Annie (talk) 17:33, 12 September 2022 (EDT)

I'll cleanup the existing record. I don't think I can ping the editor who added the 7th printing note since his last post was in 2017. :) Phil (talk) 22:02, 12 September 2022 (EDT)

Biographies?

Just wondering about entry of book length biographies of significant authors. Mary Shelly or Poe, for instance. I assume this is includable? Is this considered genre or non-genre? gzuckier (talk) 00:50, 16 September 2022 (EDT)

As per ISFDB:Policy, we include:

• Published non-fiction works about speculative fiction which can be plausibly linked to published (as defined above) speculative fiction

so books about speculative fiction authors can be included. It can get fuzzy if the author in question is only marginally related to speculative fiction. For example, a biography of Robert Conquest that concentrated on his work as a historian would be borderline at best even though he wrote and edited a fair amount of SF. Ahasuerus (talk) 06:52, 16 September 2022 (EDT)

Just to add a note and answer part of the question here: a biography will be considered genre - it is in as a book linked to speculative fiction. Non-genre will be a book from an above the treshold author about science for example. Annie (talk) 15:34, 16 September 2022 (EDT)

On a related point, there doesn't seem to be any way to link the biography to the author, or vice versa. If the title of the bio included the author's name, it could be searched that way, but if it doesn't it would kind of be an orphan; that would seem to be a glitch?

Thanks. gzuckier (talk) 00:50, 16 September 2022 (EDT)

As per Help:Screen:AuthorData:

• Note - This field is for bibliographic notes about the author. It can be used to document the sources that were used to compile author-specific information. It can also be used to enter brief biographical data, especially for authors who do not have other biographical pages on the Internet.

For longer biographical articles, you can use {{BREAK}} -- see Help:Using Templates and HTML in Note Fields.

We used to create biographical Wiki pages, but they were deprecated a few years ago. There are a dozen cleanup reports to help move remaining Wiki pages to the database proper. Ahasuerus (talk) 06:52, 16 September 2022 (EDT)

How to/should I enter a collection with genre and non-genre stories?

Cats Triumphant! includes "Well Worth the Money", which has been getting some interest due to this Tumblr post about it. It includes 8 genre stories and 3 non-genre stories.

I've got information on the 2012 Kindle ebook and generic ebook, plus the 2022 reprints (including, at last, a print edition that will have page numbers).

1. Should I enter this collection even though it includes non-genre stories?
2. Should I enter the non-genre stories or pretend they don't exist?
3. Is it okay to enter the list of stories in the 2012 ebook editions based on the ToC for the 2022 reprints? (I originally said 'omitting the new introduction by Carole Nelson Douglas', but it appears she wrote one for the 2012 version as well.)

Thanks! Sylvar (talk) 10:15, 20 September 2022 (EDT)

1. Yes - A predominately genre publication by a genre author.
2. Yes - All titles are included. After creation, set the non-genre flag for the three non-genre stories.
3. Yes - Note that your source is the 2022 publication and state that the 2012 order could differ. Edit: The two introductions look identical. John Scifibones 11:43, 20 September 2022 (EDT)

Thanks again! Sylvar (talk) 12:23, 20 September 2022 (EDT)

Oh no... I forgot to include the introductions on my first two. Oh well, I'll add those in an edit after they're created. Sylvar (talk) 12:38, 20 September 2022 (EDT)

Cover art links to ISFDB site -- include https in URL?

When I 'Upload new cover scan', the links available on the page now include the https protocol marker. Are the references from the publication supposed to be changed to match? Will there be some batched fixup applied someday? --Glenn (talk) 16:04, 24 September 2022 (EDT)

ISFDB-hosted URLs can be entered using either "http" or "https". When our software builds Web pages to display, it checks whether the site is currently running HTTP or HTTPS. It then adjusts the displayed images automatically. This setup makes it easy to go back and forth between HTTP and HTTPS, e.g. when setting up a test version of the ISFDB database on your home computer. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:48, 24 September 2022 (EDT)

In addition, what should one do when the links "Cover art supplied by ISFDB on this Web page" and "Upload new cover scan" don't match? E.g. Invader on My Back / Destination: Saturn --Glenn (talk) 17:08, 24 September 2022 (EDT)

Would like to create an author

I have a variant of an author not yet created
I believe F. G. B. should be a variant of an author named Frans G. Bengtsson, but I am not sure I can create that author by myself. At least, I have not found a way yet. --Spacecow (talk) 19:04, 24 September 2022 (EDT)

Help:How to enter an author into the database discusses related issues, but not this particular scenario. To do what you are trying to so, pull up the title in question, then click "Make This Title a Variant" in the navigation bar on the left. Scroll down to "Option 2". Change "F. G. B." to "Frans G. Bengtsson" in "Author 1", then click "Create New Parent Title". Ahasuerus (talk) 21:52, 24 September 2022 (EDT)

Done! Thank you. Appreciate the help! --Spacecow (talk) 18:07, 25 September 2022 (EDT)

Star Trek series vs publication series

I've started PVing my Star Trek books, and have tripped over what seems to be inconsistencies in whether whether a numbered sequence should be entered as a (sub)series, or a publication series. E.g., Star Trek Pocket Books vs Star Trek: The Next Generation Numbered, Star Trek: Voyager, etc.

It seems like it might be safer to not poke the bear, but I'd interested in what folks think. --Glenn (talk) 20:47, 3 October 2022 (EDT)

The way I think about distinguishing between publication and title series is to ask: If the same book were published by a completely different publisher, would (could) they do so under the same series? If the answer is "no", it's a publication series; if the answer is "yes", it's a title series. For your examples, anyone could publish a "Star Trek: Voyager" book, but no one else could publish a "Star Trek Pocket Book" book. --MartyD (talk) 09:59, 4 October 2022 (EDT)

Is there a master list of spec fiction sub-genres?

Apologies in advance for being new and not knowing my way around, but if there is such a list, I couldn't find it. Can someone please direct me? Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by VShannon (talk • contribs) .

Our inclusion policy defines speculative fiction here. Not quite the same thing as a master list of all sub-genres (which I think I credible argument could be made against the feasibility of accomplishing such a list), but the closest we have. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:46, 8 October 2022 (EDT)

The Speculative fiction template over on Wikipedia has a pretty good list. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:45, 11 October 2022 (EDT)

Login Issue

I have been a member for several years, but suddenly my login is rejected. I assume I need to update my password, but can't find anything on the Wiki page about that. Wcornette

Have you had a chance to check ISFDB:FAQ#What_do_I_do_if_I_have_problems_logging_in.3F? I have added a clarification re: the 2022-09-06 server move, specifically:

• If you were able to log in before September 6, 2022 (which is when the ISFDB site was upgraded to HTTPS) and have been unable to log in since, you need to log in to the ISFDB Wiki first. Once you do that, you should be able to log in on the ISFDB side as well.

Ahasuerus (talk) 18:26, 9 October 2022 (EDT)

I had to change my password because my old one somehow didn't comply with PW complexity rules anymore. Somehow the system didn't accept my old PW anymore... So, you may have to change your password anyway, making sure it complies with current PW rules. MagicUnk (talk) 06:26, 13 October 2022 (EDT)

Can we split an author, please?

Author record 22465 contains information about two distinct authors:

• Hyacinthe Hill was born Virginia Rose Cronin in Manhattan on 24 May 1920. She married John L. Anderson and wrote as Hyacinthe Hill. She died on 25 March 1989 in Marin County, California.
• Virginia 'Nanek' Anderson was born Virginia Hadie Combs in Elizabeth City, Virginia on 20 March 1920. She married Carl W. K. Anderson and wrote as Nanek as well as her own name. She died on 25 May 1987 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Could we please break this up into two author entries? Sylvar (talk) 13:05, 13 October 2022 (EDT)

I think I got them untangled. Look at Hyacinthe Hill and the old record and let me know if I got something wrong. Annie (talk) 13:25, 13 October 2022 (EDT)

That looks right to me. Thank you very much! Sylvar (talk) 11:32, 18 October 2022 (EDT)

Le Guin Award "finalists" not looking quite right

A few days ago, the new Le Guin award announced a winner and two "finalists" from the previously announced 9 nominees. I've just updated 3 records, but - as can be seen from the linked page - the 2 "finalists" appear below the nominees, which doesn't really reflect that those 2 books were recognized. Is there anything that can be tweaked to make them appear in the order winner>finalists>nominees, or is that just how it works with the data model?

(FWIW I don't know that there was any indication prior to the winner announcement that there'd be a "finalist" category...) ErsatzCulture (talk) 17:27, 23 October 2022 (EDT)

In our data model, "winners" correspond to Award Level 1, "nominees" correspond to Award Level 9 and "finalists" correspond to Award Level 90. This is due to the fact that we assume that a "finalist" is a work which made it to the final round of jury/voter selection, but didn't become an official "nominee".

Also, as Help:Screen:EditAward says:

• ISFDB supports two varieties of award types: poll-based and non-poll-based. For poll-based award types, you will see a "Poll place" radio button; enter the numeric award ranking between 1 and 70. For non-poll-based award types, you will see a "Win" radio button and a "Nomination" radio button; check the appropriate button.

Up until now, it was our understanding that The Ursula K. Le Guin Prize for Fiction didn't rank nominees beyond announcing the winner. Now that we know that they do rank them, we should probably change the Award Type definition from "Not Poll" to "Poll". Once we do that, we should be able to make the "finalists" Award Level 2 and the rest of the nominees Award level 3. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:30, 23 October 2022 (EDT)

That will be even more confusing than what we have now and a bad idea IMO. We need the ability to order the categories of nominees on the page (for things like short and ling lists for example or fir Finalists). A few of the Russian aware have the same issue. Just adding an explanation in the description on what Finalist means keeps the things a bit cleaner, order on the page notwithstanding. Annie (talk) 23:34, 23 October 2022 (EDT)

Back when the current version of the award model was implemented, we identified a few areas where it didn't adequately reflect the variety of scenarios that existed in the real world. After a discussion of possible permutations, FR 656, "Add support for Displayed Award Levels", was created. A few years later FR 1086, "Change the award year field to a drop-down list", was created to support certain other scenarios. (We also have FR 583 and FR 269 to support linking awards to authors and publishers, but that's a different can of worms.)

For now, we handle awards which use the terms "nominee" and "finalist" interchangeably in a number of ways. Hugo, Campbell/Astounding and Lodestar are currently set up as "Polls" with voting details given in Notes, e.g. see this 2022 award record. In certain cases, we use "Finalists" in the database sense of the world (Award Level 90), which can be confusing, e.g. see the 1977 Campbell/Astounding list, where "Finalists" are listed below "Withdrawn -- Ineligible". (We may want to review the internal Award Level values and swap some of them in order to sort more logically.)

Another possible way to handle the Le Guin situation would be to keep the "Poll" flag for this Award Type set to "No". We would then turn all 2022 nominees back to "Nominee", then add notes explaining that 2 of them were singled out as "finalists". Ahasuerus (talk) 10:42, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

Does the following workaround yield your desired result? Select the 'Special' radio button rather than the 'Nomination' radio button. Then choose 'Preliminary Nominees' from the dropdown list. John Scifibones 11:24, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

It may work for this year but whoever adds them next year may not realize how to enter them (or someone may decide to 'fix' this year's nominations because they are not really preliminary nominations). As a stop-gap, it can work and we can keep an eye on it (and add a note at the award Note explaining the naming). Annie (talk) 11:41, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

And then if we are not careful, different years in the same award may also use a different mechanism. In a perfect world, we should be able to set the precedence of the level inside of the category - so if one day an award does something like semi-finalists for example, we do not need to twist the UI yet again :) Annie (talk) 11:41, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

Help Desk history missing content

Viewing the Help Desk history, e.g. Revision as of 14:04, 15 November 2019 by Ahasuerus (https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB:Help_desk&oldid=565502) seems to show empty content.

— FlaSheridn (talk) 21:57, 23 October 2022 (EDT)

We only keep the last 50 versions of Wiki pages due to limited disk space. However, old sections are periodically archive, so they are not lost. In this case November 2019 sections can be found in Archive 31, specifically ISFDB:Help_desk/archives/archive_31#My_Votes_in_.28Internal_and.2For_External.29_Chronological_Order. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:12, 23 October 2022 (EDT)

Problem finding license types for uploaded image files

When uploading files (eg. an author image) to the wiki, shouldn't there be a drop down box in File Description that allows you to select the license? The only option I see is "None selected". Ultimately I'm looking for the area where I can specify the license type, image creator, source, etc. Thanks. PeteYoung (talk) 13:21, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

Hmm, the Upload file page has a link (at least for moderators?) for editing MediaWiki:Licenses which controls the pull down. Looking at the Wikipedia version, it looks like it only allows for simply static licenses. So we could make use of it, but people would still need to add information to allow linking back to the database (author id, etc.). If people think it would useful for having at least partial templates, I would be willing to enter them. -- JLaTondre (talk) 13:41, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

Right now, Category:Image License Tags is linked from the image upload page. Instead of selecting a license from the list (which isn't populated right now), you should use one of the templates listed in that category. The correct template will include the correct license. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:16, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

I've updated the list based on the list of templates in Category:Image License Tags. Let us know if that works for you. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:23, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

That looks ideal, thanks. Will use this list tomorrow and report back on any problems. Cheers. PeteYoung (talk) 16:27, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

You will need to edit the image page afterward in order to fill in the appropriate information. You'll also have to copy the parameters from the template page so you know what you need to fill in for the template. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:30, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

Two authors same name, needs (I)?

These https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=ogunyemi&type=Name do appear to be two different authors, but then shouldn't one of them be (I)? Thanks. gzuckier (talk) 00:56, 31 October 2022 (EDT)

The only difference in the two names is the use, or lack, of a diacritic dot under the e in the last name. The first step is to confirm that we didn't make a data entry error. A check of the attribution in issue 1 of 34 Orchard confirms the name was entered correctly. Based on the available bios, it appears this is just one author.

The proper way to handle is to make Ernest O. Ògúnyemí and alternate name of Ernest O. Ògúnyẹmí. Then make Christmas Chicken a variant title. Sumit these two edits and I will approve them. Thanks for finding this, John Scifibones 09:28, 31 October 2022 (EDT)

Narrator template and multiple narrators

I've recently started adding audiobooks, and a few of them have more than one narrator. In those cases I've just added multiple separate narrator templates, but I've just seen this omnibus pub where 5 narrators are listed in one template, separated by " and ". Is one or both of these correct usage? Neither Template:PublicationFields:PubNote nor Help:Using_Templates_and_HTML_in_Note_Fields have anything to say on this particular use case (which may well be equally applicable to other templates like A.

My guess is that right now, it doesn't make much difference, but if/when the current use of templates is superseded by having some sort of "role" functionality for contributors to pubs, then having something that can be easily and unambiguously parsed would be preferable. From a quick SQL query of the database, I note that there are 87 author records that contain the text ' and '. Granted, most of those are unlikely to ever be narrators, but could easily be referenced in A templates, and it might be preferable to have some consistent handling across template types, rather than special casing Narrator? ErsatzCulture (talk) 16:18, 7 November 2022 (EST)

It is the same issue as with the translator template - we can deal with all possibilities when we are ready to convert one day. I use "and" and "," as separators between the names and rarely use the A (author) template inside of the Translator/Narrator. And when working internationally, we have an extra challenge of adding the transliterations inside of the template (as there is no space for them elsewhere as it will be if they become proper author records). So pick up a way to record and when it comes to parsing, there won't be that many options to cover anyway. If and when the special characters become an issue, we can revisit but for now as long as the data is there, I am not too worried about converting later. Annie (talk) 16:23, 7 November 2022 (EST)

Name of the artist misspelled

. Good day,

The name of an illusterator in the recent issue of GHOSTS & SCHOLARS (no.43) is misspelled.

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?922187

Instead of 'Carl Lavoir', it should be: Carl Lavoie.

There's already a page for him:

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?269730

Could the name please be corrected and the illustration credit linked to the illustrator's profile?

Thank you, and have a wonderful day!

Sincerely,

-Carl Lavoie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jahrel (talk • contribs) . 07:57, 17 November 2022‎ (EST) .

Thanks for letting us know. I've asked the person who verified that issue to come comment here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:00, 17 November 2022 (EST)

Looking at the issue, it appears that was already corrected. It's current showing as "Carl Lavoie". ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:06, 17 November 2022 (EST)

Capitalization/varianting of David D. Levine's Tk'tk'tk aka Tk'Tk'Tk

At least some pubs of this story use the form "Tk'Tk'Tk", rather than the currently recorded "Tk'tk'tk". Examples of the former are the 21st Century SF anthology (*), the Space Magic anthology, and the derived chapbook that includes just that story; examples that use the latter are Escape Pod 54. Is this something that we should try to record the particular pub's usage exactly as far as possible using variant titles, or are there perhaps R&S capitalization rules that override things? I would have assumed the former, but given that this is a reasonably high-profile short story - albeit with an annoyingly-hard-to-get-right title - I'd have thought this one might have been caught before now?

(* - at least per the contents listing of the ebook, the title on the story itself appears in all caps) ErsatzCulture (talk) 16:30, 17 November 2022 (EST)

Sarah Monette's "Letter from a Teddy Bear on Veterans Day"

I stumbled across a duplicate and have a couple of questions about making a variant. From the web page, I can see that the original publication, "Letter from a Teddy Bear on Veteran's Day," is correctly listed but I don't have access to the anthologies which print it as "Letter from a Teddy Bear on Veterans' Day" (I didn't see it immediately but the difference is the plural possessive apostrophe vs. the singular) so I'm not sure if that's correctly listed or not. Both titles are actually wrong in terms of the name of the holiday which is "Veterans Day" (no apostrophe at all) so I don't know which should be canonical (presumably the first publication). And, while I doubt it, should there be a sort of redirect alternate title with the correct punctuation because, when you search for "Veterans Day," only "Veterans Day" by Cat Sparks shows up and this one doesn't. --J-Sun (talk) 15:14, 18 November 2022 (EST)

Wow, this is so complicated it almost seems like one of mine, but I'll try to sort it out. I (Username) added both Archive.org links, 1 for each variant of the title, and when the 1 that was accepted recently was approved I think I'd completely forgotten that I added the other one late last year until I just looked at them now. The one spelled "Veteran's" is a 2006 page but the Archive link was in 2015 for some reason, while the one spelled "Veterans'" doesn't have a date on it but the Archive link is from 2007. Monette's Prime Books collection with this story is on Archive.org and I checked it; it's "Veterans'". The Prime Books anthology it appeared in, which was apparently one of many they did which got cancelled before making it to the shelves, also, according to the linked blog post in the record, has "Veterans'". So here's what I say; she corrected the title in later appearances, so that should be the parent and "Veteran's" should be the variant. --Username (talk) 15:35, 18 November 2022 (EST)

Dating variants

I am unclear what to do in case we have a title by a variant author name that's dated earlier than the same title but published by the canonical author name. this one, for example, confuses me. The story 'Party Favors' has been published under the variant author name Alex Nathan Shumate in 1994. Only later was this title published under the author's canonical name Nathan Shumate in 2015. Currently, the parent title (by Nathan Shumate) is dated 1994, whereas it actually got published only in 2015 under the author's canonical name. I know we've been discussing this on and off, but to my knowledge we never got a clear set of rules for these, or do we?

Should we re-date the parent title to 2015? But if we do, we will have a parent title that's published later than its variant title by Alex Nathan Shumate of 1994. And the author's bibliography will show the title as published in 2015, not in 1994 as it should.

Conversely, should we date the parent title to the date of the first appearance of said title, whether it's the variant date or not? That will result in correct date in author's bibliography, but will result in wrong date of when the title actually appeared. (probably need to move to r&s, but hey, I'm confused...) MagicUnk (talk) 07:23, 19 November 2022 (EST)

Parents are dated based on the first appearance of the story (excluding translations) under any title or author credit. The only exception is if a translation was published first. In that case, we still use the first date published in the author's canonical language. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:24, 19 November 2022 (EST)

Yes, I agree - that is the only case where a title is not dated based on its own publications but based on all publications in the title’s original language. That way it stays where it belongs in the publication order. The parent serves a double function for us - it is one of the titles (as any variant it carries) but it is also the main record for a text/book. As such, it is not treated as a regular variant (that’s why we can also have empty parents but not empty variants for example). Some DBs and sites solve that by having a “canonical” record which never belongs into a work. In ours we just use a record using the canonical name of the author when one with the correct title exists. Annie (talk) 12:18, 19 November 2022 (EST)

OK, that's clear, thanks. Shouldn't we add this rule explicitly into the rules somewhere for future reference? MagicUnk (talk) 16:05, 22 November 2022 (EST)

Can't log in and nothing works

Trying to add a new collection to my page. My old login is being rejected. All the notices tell me what to do, but not how to do it. Why is it so hard to log in? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lwoolley (talk • contribs) . 15:49, 22 November 2022‎ (EST)

Which page? Please share the URL. Also, what is your old username (since you said you're having trouble logging in)?

To login, you should login here on the wiki first. That should log you into the database side of ISFDB. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:54, 22 November 2022 (EST)

Harlequin Pub Series with sub-series?

The Harlequin Publication Series Harlequin American Romance has a paranormal romance-themed miniseries/sub-series, More Than Men (here's another Goodreads list). The books in More Than Men all have pub series numbers listed for the Harlequin American Romance pub series (for instance, Neptune's Bride is HAR 509, but they don't appear to have pub series numbers listed for the More Than Men miniseries. Is it preferable to list the More Than Men books in the Harlequin American Romance pub series with their pub series numbers included? Or should I list them in a new More Than Men pub series without any pub series numbers? Or do something else?

(Several of the More Than Men books are also in different Harlequin pub series, e.g. a Neptune's Bride reprint is in Silhouette pub series Dreamscapes: Whispers of Love.) Morebooks (talk) 23:40, 30 November 2022 (EST)

Is it correct to assume that 'Harlequin American Romance' is devoted not only to speculative titles? Than, in my view, the case is similar to Phantastische Bibliothek and Suhrkamp Taschenbuch, with the books published in 'Phantastische Bibliothek' all also having a publication series no. within (and being part of) 'Suhrkamp Taschenbuch'. We decided to do it this way because the first series is devoted to speculative fiction titles and we are a site devoted to the same area. So, yes, under the above assumption I'd think the books within the 'More Than Men' should be indexed here with their own pub. series (and accompanying no.). Hope that helps, Christian Stonecreek (talk) 04:27, 1 December 2022 (EST)

Yes, Harlequin American Romance contains both specfic and non-specfic titles, while More Than Men is only specfic. More Than Men doesn’t have corresponding pub series numbers like Harlequin American Romance does. Should I put the books in a new More Than Men pub series while giving them the pub series numbers from Harlequin American Romance? Or should I put the books in More Than Men pub series and leave the pub series numbers blank? Morebooks (talk) 06:01, 1 December 2022 (EST)

Or what if I name the new pub series "Harlequin American Romance: More Than Men" and then include the HAR pub series numbers? Morebooks (talk) 16:34, 1 December 2022 (EST)

Either works but make sure the decision is documented in the notes of the series so people can understand what we are naming and numbering :) Annie (talk) 17:05, 1 December 2022 (EST)

Poking around more Harlequin paranormal romances, this is apparently going to be an ongoing issue with the publisher. E.g Harlequin has another pub series, Harlequin Temptation, that's a mixture of specfic and non-specfic titles; Temptation in turn has at least 2 sub-series that are also mixtures of specfic & non-specfic titles, Lovers & Legends and Secret Fantasies. And so on & so forth across various other Harlequin pub series & imprints. So what's the preferable way to handle this consistently? Keep creating new pub series for the sub-series? Ignore the sub-series? Move the pub series like Harlequin Temptation into a new separate publisher listing so the sub-series can be pub series for that imprint? Morebooks (talk) 03:09, 2 December 2022 (EST)

Ideally, we would implement FR 327, "Allow nested publication series". Unfortunately, it would take a significant amount of development time, so it's not on my short list of things to do. For now, any of the proposed solutions would work as long as we document what we are doing in Notes. Ahasuerus (talk) 09:19, 2 December 2022 (EST)

Just as a reminder, we also have the MultiPubS template (no parameters) which is to be used when a book is in two publication series (nested or not) and which should make it easier to untangle these when/if we ever can do nested and/or multiple pub series. I tend to add the other series name and number (if one is available). See this for an example. :) Annie (talk) 13:13, 2 December 2022 (EST)

The Eye of the Lens

The novelette "The Eye of the Lens" is a concatenation of three short stories, "The Hall of Machines", "The Coming of the Sun", and "The Eye of the Lens," apparently with no changes to the stories. We don't have a listing for the short story "The Eye of the Lens" yet, I'm about to add one. I've separated out the three pubs of the short story from the pubs of the novelette. Where the three short stories are published, they are all three together, so it's as if the novelette was published, but the subsections listed. None of the short stories appear anywhere on their own without the other two.

My question is do I make the three separate short stories a variant of the novelette in some way? Or just have a note to relate them?

Thanks. gzuckier (talk) 00:31, 1 December 2022 (EST)

No, they won't be variants unless they were serialized (aka - it was always one story, just published in pieces - in which case the smaller pieces become serials instead of stories). There are 2 ways to record that if we do not go the serials route:

• Always include the 3 stories where the new bigger story is published. That works if the split is obvious in the big story.
• Use notes to connect the fix-up story to its stories. We do that usually for fix-up novels which do not get treated as collections but it can work here as well.

However if the 3 short stories never appear on their own after their initial publication and always appear as part of the novelette, then they sound more like chapters/serialization than separate stories. If so, we may actually be better off making the initial ones SERIAL and connecting them to their parent. Intent matters here - it is important to know if they were planned to be one story or if they were 3 separate stories that then got fixed-up into a single entity. Annie (talk) 17:13, 1 December 2022 (EST)

OK, I'll do some mental activity. It's one of those New Wave type writings that doesn't fit into any categories politely. gzuckier (talk) 23:28, 1 December 2022 (EST)

How to Convert a Chapbook to a Novel

I am editing and PVing Christopher Ruocchio / The Lesser Devil. It is 56329 words long so comfortably a novel, however, it is currently recorded as a Chapbook. I have found this help page: How to convert a novel to a chapbook but I cannot find a help page telling me how to do the reverse. Can someone please point me in the direction of the appropriate help page or, if there isn't one, tell me what to do. Thanks. Teallach (talk) 18:48, 1 December 2022 (EST)

Step one: Change the short fiction title (this one to a novel.

Step 2-x: Go into each of the chapbook publications and use "Remove Title from Publication" to eject the Chapbook record.

Step Last: If the novella was in any collections and anthologies, check if they do not need to be changed to Omnibuses. If it is in a magazine, you will need to replace it in the magazine with the Complete Novel serial. If it was serialized, make sure the rules for novels and not for stories are applied to the dating. If the book has variants, all of them need to be changed the same way with steps 1-x :) Annie (talk) 18:56, 1 December 2022 (EST)

Forgot one step of course somewhere in the copying around: Once the short story is changed to a novel AND the chapbook is ejected (both need to be approved first), the publication needs to be changed to a novel as well. As you won't even be able to submit these pub type changes before the other two changes are approved, it may make sense to actually add a moderator note to ask the handling moderator to assist -- and just check at the end to make sure they did and submit if they missed it. :) That one is now all approved. Thanks for finding out the length. Annie (talk) 23:52, 2 December 2022 (EST)

1) Thanks for updating the pub records. As I stated in the Notes to Moderator, I was going to do this myself because I don't like asking moderators to do stuff that I can do. However, given your recommendation, I will do so if I come across this scenario again in the future. I presume you've suggested this because otherwise the inconsistent pub record(s) will get flagged in a cleanup report whilst my edit is waiting to be approved.

2) Now that we've done all these edits, there is an empty Chapbook record hanging around. Should I submit an edit to delete it or will it automatically get deleted as a result of some cleanup process? Teallach (talk) 16:48, 3 December 2022 (EST)

That helps not having the inconsistent formats stay a long time in the DB, get flagged on a report and needing someone to get to them. You submitting also works - and I would recommend checking just in case the handling moderator missed the note - sometimes it happens. I would usually do that step when I am approving even without a note (this one is just a bit clunky due to the inability to submit it early). We will fix it sooner or later (we have a report for it) but we don’t work all reports daily (or even weekly) :)

Oops, I thought I deleted it. Now I did. But yes - if it is not deleted, submit the deletion. It will show up on a report and we will zap it one day when someone works through the report but a deletion is needed so if you notice it, off it goes. Basically authors, publishers and publication series get deleted automatically when the last entry under them is deleted; titles and series need a delete submission when they are empty. Annie (talk) 20:00, 3 December 2022 (EST)