Difference between revisions of "ISFDB:Help desk"

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[[Category:ISFDB Help]]
 
[[Category:ISFDB Help]]
  
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== Multilingual Publications ==
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== Publisher information ==
  
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What causes a multilingual publications to show up on the cleanup report? [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?859683 This one] for example.[[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 08:27, 1 October 2021 (EDT)
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● I need to know if I’m doing this right.  While updating the late author Gary Brandner’s page I entered [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?896984 this edition]. I would like to know if I entered the publisher correctly.  Was the publisher iUniverse, Backinprint.com, iUniverse / Backinprint.com, etc.? [[User:MLB|MLB]] 19:39, 1 May 2022 (EDT)
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<br>I'm responsible for a number of the publications showing up on [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?193 this list], I would like to correct whatever is wrong and prevent them in the future.
 
  
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: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?193 The cleanup report] does exactly what its name suggests -- it looks for multi-lingual publications in the database. Some of them, e.g. books with parallel English and Spanish texts, are legitimate and will be marked as "ignored" by moderators. Others had the wrong title imported and need to be corrected. For example, consider [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?39095 this edition of ''The Elf Queen of Shannara''], which you verified in August 2020. It includes a Dutch INTERIORART title, which looks suspicious in a run of the mill 1992 Del Rey book. Chances are that it needs to have an English "Morrowindl" record added, the Dutch title removed and the resulting 2 INTERIORART titles varianted. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:06, 1 October 2021 (EDT)
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: One person's not particularly educated opinion: From [http://web.archive.org/web/20150524143938/http:/www.backinprint.com/ this] archived backinprint.com page, it sounds to me like iUniverse is technically the publisher: they provided the electronic source to Backinprint.com; they paid the royalties to the authors; authors granted the publication rights to them. So I think Backinprint.com would be more like an imprint, in which case the names you used should be swapped around (our format is Imprint / Publisher) to be "Backinprint.com / iUniverse". --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 09:57, 4 May 2022 (EDT)
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::Thanks for responding. I'll take care of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?39095 this edition of ''The Elf Queen of Shannara'']. The magazines, Samovar, Mithila Review, Eye to the Telescope, and Liminality, Strange Horizons all look correct.[[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 12:20, 1 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::: Moderators can ignore the legitimate multi-language ones - the code does not know when it is a mistake and when it is supposed to be that way so it flags everything and we mark them as ok when they are. I’ll clear the report later today of the false positives. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:49, 1 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:::: Thanks Annie. When I'm working on a multilingual publication, should I add a reminder to clear this flag in the notes to moderator?[[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 08:00, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::::: No because we cannot do anything about it until the report is generated overnight and the publication pops up there. :) I used to check that one weekly (at least), I just need to get in the habit of that again. If they start piling up again, feel free to nudge me on my page or post on the moderator board and someone will assist. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 08:44, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Asimov's Annotated "Paradise Lost" ==
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:: Okay. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 02:53, 5 May 2022 (EDT)
  
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I had just submitted ''Asimov's Annotated "Paradise Lost"'' and got to wondering what the type should be. The primary content would be Milton's poem - hence POEM, but it's non-genre below the threshold so would not be in the '''Regular Titles''' . Asimov is above the threshold, so his annotations (NONFICTION? ESSAY?) would qualify and would appear in the '''Regular Titles''' (if they had a cohesive form). I don't plan on adding any titles in the '''Regular Titles''', so only the publication's title will exist as a TITLE - currently as non-genre NONFICTION. Should it be something else? ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 11:59, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
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== Question on Printer's key ==
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:Why would Milton's poem be considered non-genre?  [http://sf-encyclopedia.uk/fe.php?nm=milton_john Clute/Grant] lists it, stating about Milton: "His renown, in both English literature and genre fantasy, is based primarily on Paradise Lost..."  I've no idea why the excerpts from this poem have been marked non-genre.  I would list it as a CHAPBOOK with the poem. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 14:52, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::If the excerpts are non-genre, it implies the full poem is non-genre and treating it as anything else creates a conflict, one I don't intend to address. CHAPBOOK sounds right for the publication and ESSAY for the annotations. I figure I'll leave the poem out of the contents (being non-genre below-threshold) if I can, a CHAPBOOK with only an ESSAY may not compile. I'll stick it in if I must, but mark it non-genre. Once the dust settles on whether Paradise Lost is genre or not and belongs on ISFDB or not should be possible to address by simple insertions or edits. Thanks for helping me avoid sticking it in NONFICTION. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 19:50, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== The Honorverse Disk CD-ROM omnibus problem ==
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I am new here so I am not sure if this information is somewhere (searched but couldn't find) or has been answered but...
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Looking at 'Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone' (Publication Record # 215741), the Notes has:
  
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Something odd has happened. I created a new omnibus named "The Honorverse Disk" and it created the correct title record [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2925798 here]. I checked the pub record created at the same time [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?860583 here] and everything looked OK. However, after doing the title merges, I checked the pub record again and and it now shows the Omnibus Title to be "The Prince" instead of "The Honorverse Disk". The problem may be that "The Prince" is itself an omnibus which is included in the "The Honorverse Disk". In order to get that title included, I had to initially enter it as a novel and then change the type when I did the title merge. Can someone fix this? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 15:31, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
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30th printing. Printing line goes 35 34 33 32 31 30    9/9 0/0 01 02 Assuming that means this is from 2002.
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: When you have an omnibus inside of another, things like that happen - the server is a bit confused. Pull out the other omnibus and replace it with its contents only. That will fix it. Think of the omnibus and chapbook types as containers only - you never import them inside of something else, you import what is inside of them. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:41, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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: PS: You will have the Same Problem if you add two collections inside of a COLLECTION record or anything else like that.  :) The System does not know which one is supposed to be the reference title so it does weird things. Or any other type. We need a reference title matching the publication type. When you give the system 2 or more of these, it gets wonky. That’s why 2 novels never make a novel publication for example. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:47, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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: PS1: The fact that the system did not allow you to add a second omnibus should have given you a clue. Please don’t try to do clever workarounds via editing title types in such cases - if you do not understand why the system stops you from adding something somewhere, come and ask.  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:49, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::I'm not sure how to do what you ask and be true to the contents on the CD. [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?23448 The Prince] currently only exists as an omnibus title. That's how it is delivered on the CD. It doesn't seem right to add the four individual component titles of "The Prince" to the "The Honorverse Disk" omnibus when they only exist as part of a single delivered title. If that is what has to be done, I'll do it but it feels inaccurate. I'm sure I'll have this same situation happen when I add other Baen CD-ROM Library titles so the resolution to this case will tell me what I have to do the next time. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 16:32, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::: But that’s not how the DB works. You add the individual titles and add a a note explaining the situation. You cannot have an omnibus inside of an omnibus. Omnibus is a container containing other pieces of novel length usually (or collections or anthologies) - the other pieces do not need to have been published on their own. So for cases like this you either treat the thing as a single novel (if they are delivered always together, what makes them an omnibus - don’t think of what someone else’ may call them, think of how we define the term in the dB?)  or you add the pieces and write notes. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:38, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::: And it is common certain titles to be only published inside of other titles. No reason not to list them or we will lose a lot of stories. :) If the disk calls that an omnibus, don’t try to emulate it - our omnibus is a very specific thing. I think that there is some of this going on and that’s understandable. People call their texts every which way. We record not based on how they are called but based on what they actually are. So look at it - is it consisting of novel sized texts? Add them as novels. Is it consisting of shorter ones? Then it is a collection/anthology. Is it a single text that calls itself an omnibus? That’s a novel. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:52, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::::I'm not convinced that [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?23448 The Prince] is truly an omnibus since two of the four component novel titles are by more than one author. What if I change the type of "The Prince" to Anthology? Can an anthology be included in an Omnibus? Or am I just reaching to make my case? :) [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 17:31, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::::: Being from more that one author is irrelevant here - omnibus contents can be by different authors. Omnibus can contain an anthology but it will be incorrect as an anthology cannot contain two novels. Just add the novels. That way they will even show up in the authors’ pages. If I understand what your are seeing, I’d add the 4 novels on their own and add them to their own series called The Prince. That gives you both the individual titles (if they ever get reprinted) and some organization of the 4 together.  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:39, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::::::The novels already exist and are part of an existing series so... I'll remove "The Prince" omnibus regular title and add the four novel titles plus add a note of explanation to the "The Honorverse Disk" title. I'll also add a note when I add the new pub records that match the date of the "The Honorverse Disk" to each of the individual novel titles. I think we're losing clarity for the title "The Prince" but I doubt the DB design ever conceived of one omnibus legitimately being included in a different omnibus. These CDs are a new edge-case paradigm and present a new challenge. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 18:07, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::::::: Nope. You just keep insisting on conflating what we call omnibus with what the external world calls an omnibus. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:14, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::::::: PS: And we had seen this before - box sets where one of the content volumes is an omnibus - both paper and e-ones. :) This may be a new media for it but the usecase had always been there. It comes down to how we define the type Omnibus and how we use it. :) As i said - Just As with chapbooks, it is there to be a container. So when you wants its contents, you get that - not the box itself. ISFDB’s terminology can be a bit removed fo how people see the terms in the real world. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:54, 2 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Yetenekliler Dünyası / The Father Thing ==
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The record has the date as 2002-00-00.
  
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[https://www.kitapyurdu.com/kitap/yetenekliler-dunyasi-toplu-oykuler-3-cilt/478661.html&manufacturer_id=3846 This book] seems to be a reprint of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?274739 this book], and using my translator function, I believe that the contents could be listed as translations of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?274739 this book’s] contents.  What does anybody think?  Translations are almost never perfect. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 01:54, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
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The way I read the date part of the printing line is this is a 1999 publication date.
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: Seems to be but let me check a few other sources to make sure the stories match completely - dropping/adding a story happens a lot with translations. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:23, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Hexadecimal Kid ==
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Which should it be? <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Stealth DBA|Stealth DBA]] ([[User talk:Stealth DBA|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stealth DBA|contribs]]) .</small> 15:31, 2 May 2022 (EDT)
  
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Richard Sandes Forsyth wrote [http://www.richardsandesforsyth.net/kidding.html three Tron-like stories starring the Hexadecimal Kid] that appeared as serials (1978–1981) in ''Computer Weekly'' and ''Practical Computing'' originally, and one of them was also reprinted as a serial in ''Computerworld''. The exact page numbers appear to have been lost to time; the author has provided me via email with the dates in which each chapter appeared. For example, "ASCII Through the Logic Gate" appeared in 33 parts ("Block 0" through "Block 32") in ''Computer Weekly'' beginning on 1978-05-25 and continuing each week until 1979-01-04. (All the data I have is [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XOgIp5iYc9LavMS5iR0dtEXqIeYyear2pPDpqZ1ej8U/edit?usp=sharing here], if you want to see what I'm working with.)
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: The publisher, Scholastic, uses an uncommon "printer's key" system. To quote [https://www.raptisrarebooks.com/first-edition-identification/ this Web page]:
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:* 7 8 9 0/0 . . .would indicate 1997
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:* 8 9 0/0 . . .is 1998
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:* 9 0/0 . . .is 1999, etc.
  
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: Should I list the data source as "Other: Data provided in email by author" or just the author's website? (The names of the parts came from the author's website; the dates of publication came from the email.)
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: In other words, your hypothesis was correct and the publication year is 1999. Also see [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?16430 this ISFDB publication record] for the printer's key of the first (1998) printing of this edition, which uses "8 9/9 0/0 01 02". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 10:34, 3 May 2022 (EDT)
  
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:: There are two levels: the data on the magazine (date of publication, price, format, etc.), and the data on the known speculative content. It seems that only the latter was provided by Forsyth. Thus, this should go into the notes (something like 'Known speculative content provided in email by its author').
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: P.S. I have updated [[Template:PublicationFields:PubNote]] to link to this resource. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 10:40, 3 May 2022 (EDT)
  
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: Does the part's title need to have appeared in print to be listed as such? For example, could I list it as "Son of Hexadecimal Kid, Page 13: Page Boundary" even though the part title [https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Practical-Computing/80s/Practical-Computing-1981-09-S-OCR.pdf#page=161 doesn't appear in print] but [http://www.richardsandesforsyth.net/hex3/hexkid3_13.pdf does appear on the author's site]?
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::Although it's Scholastic-specific, what do you (or does everyone) think about also including [http://www.tunneltwo.com/secrets/secrets06.html this] in that list? --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 09:42, 4 May 2022 (EDT)
  
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:: No, we go by the printed title.
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::: Given the growing number of links to third party Web pages, we may want to create a new Help template for "Number Line/Printer's Key". It would include a more in-depth explanation of the concept as well as a list of external links. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:46, 4 May 2022 (EDT)
  
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: Should I retain the author's whimsical jargon-naming of the parts (Bit 0–16, Block 0–32, Page 0–16) or should I list Page 13 instead as "Son of Hexadecimal Kid, '''Part''' 13: Page Boundary"?
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== The Book of the SubGenius ==
  
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:: It seems the 'whimsical' titles are the ones that were printed, so we go with them.
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If I were to add it, what would it be? I want to call it nonfiction. If you don't know what it is, you can check it out [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/174479.The_Book_of_the_SubGenius here]. --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 21:42, 5 May 2022 (EDT)
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:I would enter it as fiction. It's fictional non-fiction, which is entered as fiction. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:12, 6 May 2022 (EDT)
  
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: And is there a better way to submit this stuff in bulk than simply clicking [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/newpub.cgi?Magazine Add New Magazine] for every single issue?
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== Archiving ==
  
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:: Alas, no. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 10:50, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
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Is there an optimum page size for talk page archives? I planned to move approximately 220,000. After seeing the warning, I cut that in half to 108,000. That seems small. I want to get the sizing correct and stay consistent as I add pages.[[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 20:13, 7 May 2022 (EDT)
  
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Thanks [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 10:43, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
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:It is usually most convenient to go by some easy-to-understand/easy-to-remember period size, rather than worrying about page size.  This MediaWiki software edition is very old, and some of its concepts of what might result in poor performance are no longer quite in tune with the state of modern hardware and browsers.  Something like annual is a good place to start.  If that looks way too big, then semiannual.  Or if it looks very small, then biennial might be better. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 11:01, 8 May 2022 (EDT)
  
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It seems the publisher was inconsistent about publishing the titles of the parts of ''Son of Hexadecimal Kid'':
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::Thanks for the clarification, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 12:18, 8 May 2022 (EDT)
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:::Yeah, just ignore that warning. It's from a decade-old version of the software. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:02, 9 May 2022 (EDT)
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:::: The warning is somewhat valid only for very old browsers which had issues with long POSTs. As most people do not use them anymore and most edits are in a thread and not using a full page edit, the warning is really superfluous but is still there for the unlikely case when you somehow have a functioning browser which has the issue and you are doing a full edit. As long as you can see all of the moved ones into the archive, you are fine - warnings or not. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:18, 9 May 2022 (EDT)
  
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{|
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== Changing Author/artist name ==
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! style="text-align:left;"| Part Number
 
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! style="text-align:left;"| Part Title
 
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! style="text-align:left;"| Title As Printed
 
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|-
 
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|0
 
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|The Base Page
 
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|Page 0 — the base page
 
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|-
 
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|1
 
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|Front Page News
 
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|Page 1 — front page news
 
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|-
 
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|2
 
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|Virtual Paging
 
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|Page 2 — virtual paging
 
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|-
 
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|3
 
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|Page Boy
 
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|Page 3 — page boy
 
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|-
 
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|4
 
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|Turning the Page
 
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|Son of Hexadecimal Kid
 
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|-
 
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|5
 
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|Page Thrashing
 
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|Page 5 — page thrashing
 
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|-
 
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|6
 
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|Page Feed
 
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|Page 6 — page feed
 
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|-
 
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|7
 
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|Page Replacement
 
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|Son of Hexadecimal Kid
 
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|-
 
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|8
 
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|Radio Paging
 
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|Son of Hexadecimal Kid
 
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|-
 
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|9
 
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|Off the Page
 
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|[unknown]
 
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|-
 
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|10
 
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|Pageantry
 
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|Son of Hexadecimal Kid
 
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|-
 
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|11
 
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|Page by Page
 
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|Son of Hexadecimal Kid
 
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|-
 
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|12
 
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|Full Page Spread
 
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|[unknown]
 
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|-
 
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|13
 
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|Page Boundary
 
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|Son of Hexadecimal Kid
 
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|-
 
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|14
 
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|Page Proof
 
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|[unknown]
 
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|-
 
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|15
 
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|A Page and a Half
 
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|Son of Hexadecimal Kid
 
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|-
 
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|16
 
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|Torn Page
 
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|Son of Hexadecimal Kid
 
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|}
 
  
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Should I really enter those as printed, even though they're inconsistent with each other?
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Artist Libby Vanderploeg https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?295299 should actually be VanderPloeg I have become convinced; the two NYTimes credits were in uppercase, and I don't know where "These Witches Don't Burn" credit came from, but https://www.isabelsterling.com/press-kit> says VanderPloeg. However when I try to change the  name in the publication pages,it defaults back to saving it as Vanderploeg. I think somebody needs to change the name on the author page. Thanks. [[User:Gzuckier|gzuckier]] 00:51, 10 May 2022 (EDT)
  
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And how should I link them to each other as parts of the main serialized story? [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 13:33, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
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:Agreed & changed (indeed, on the author page). Also added a link to her [https://www.libbyvanderploeg.com/about website]. Thanks, --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 03:54, 10 May 2022 (EDT)
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: Yes, publication data beats consistency.
 
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: You add them as SERIAL in the magazine. Then once approved, you variant the SERIAL to the story/novel they serialized. See [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2622385 this] for an example. The "(Part X of Y)" is only added IF the separate parts don't have unique names (See the parts [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2438048 here] for an example with unique names). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:54, 4 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::Okay, so I think my titles for this series would be
 
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::* Page 0—The Base Page
 
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::* Page 1—Front Page News
 
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::* Page 2—Virtual Paging
 
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::* Page 3—Page Boy
 
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::* Son of Hexadecimal Kid (Part 4 of 16)
 
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::* Page 5—Page Thrashing
 
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::* Page 6—Page Feed
 
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::* Son of Hexadecimal Kid (Part 7 of 16)
 
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::* Son of Hexadecimal Kid (Part 8 of 16)
 
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::* Son of Hexadecimal Kid (Part 9 of 16)
 
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::* Son of Hexadecimal Kid (Part 10 of 16)
 
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::* Son of Hexadecimal Kid (Part 11 of 16)
 
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::* Son of Hexadecimal Kid (Part 12 of 16)
 
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::* Son of Hexadecimal Kid (Part 13 of 16)
 
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::* Son of Hexadecimal Kid (Part 14 of 16)
 
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::* Son of Hexadecimal Kid (Part 15 of 16)
 
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::* Son of Hexadecimal Kid (Part 16 of 16)
 
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::...is that reasonable enough to submit? [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 11:07, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:::: If that is how they are titled, it is reasonable enough. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:39, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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::::: The titles of parts 9, 12, and 14 are my best guesses based on Parts 7–16; no copies of parts 9 and 14 are online but we know the issues they appeared in. And as far as the author and I can figure, the publisher simply forgot to publish Part 12, even though they intended to, and the piece is also available as a pdf on the author's website. What should I do with Part 12? [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 12:52, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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:::::: Technically a PDF is a an ebook so you can add it as a chapbook (and then inside of it you have that missing 12th piece and you can variant it to the complete text the same way you do the rest. Its date won't be in sequence. Alternatively, you can leave it out and just add a note about it in the complete title record. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:05, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
 
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Is it okay for the 1978 and 1979 serializations of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2929111 The Hexadecimal Kid and His Faithful Dog ASCII] to be variants of the same 1978 title, or should the 1979 reprint serials be variants of a different title, "The Hexadecimal Kid and His Faithful Dog ASCII (1979)"? The text of the pieces did not change, as far as I know. [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 10:46, 11 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Art credit for an entire magazine issue ==
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== How do chapbooks work? ==
  
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As an example: ''Practical Computing'' (August 1980) has a [https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Practical-Computing/80s/Practical-Computing-1980-08-S-OCR.pdf#page=3 credits statement next to the table of contents] for the entire issue which says "Art[:] Margaret Smith". Is it reasonable to therefore credit the cover art and interior art, if not otherwise signed/attributed, to Margaret Smith? [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 12:22, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
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After creating a chapbook, do I turn the contents into SHORTFICTION? How do I get it to show up as both a chapbook and shortfiction, like ''You Better Come Home with Me'' by [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?232258 John Lawson (I)]?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 06:49, 15 May 2022 (EDT)
  
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:Unless the speculative content is not illustrated, I'm afraid the answer is no: we only record the artists whose work illustrates works of speculative fiction (see rule 4. [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Policy#Excluded here]). So, if Isaac Asimov would have had a robot story of his published in ''Practical Computing'' we would index this story and the artwork that illustrates it, but not the cover artist or other artwork (or content) unrelated to speculative fiction. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 12:35, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
: Think of chapbooks as collections limited to one work of <b>fiction</b> (shortfiction, poem, or serial). The content title record should have the same name as the chapbook container and publication title. [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Screen:NewPub#Publication_Type Here] is the relevant help section. Related information (length, series, reviews, awards, etc) are entered in or attached to the content title record, not the chapbook container.  
−
:: Did you really mean to say "Unless the speculative content is ''not'' illustrated"? From context, it looks like you meant something else. [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 14:59, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
: A couple comments re: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?898669 Derek the Dust Particle].
−
:: Let me rephrase my question: If interior art ''illustrating speculative fiction'' is not explicitly credited on that page or a nearby page, but the magazine lists a single name in the credits for "art", is it better to list the illustrator as "uncredited" or in the name of the person credited for that issue's art? See, for example, [https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Practical-Computing/80s/Practical-Computing-1980-08-S-OCR.pdf#page=77 this INTERIORART] illustrating the SF short story that begins on the previous page. (I am aware that since the cover in this case is illustrating a fantasy scene from [https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=334 a game], I should not enter it because [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Policy#Exclusions games are excluded from ISFDB's definition of speculative fiction].) [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 14:59, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:* Since the short story 'Derek the Dust Particle' does not exist, enter it using edit publication.  
−
::: Double negatives in languages can be fun when you go into a language which does not support them :) To clarify: If there is art connected to the genre piece you add, it gets added (and yes, you can use the artist credit from the complete issue - just make sure you document where the credit comes from). If the piece has its own title, you use that. If it does not, use the title of the story it illustrates. If there is more than one, use [2], [3] and so on after the title of the second, third and so on. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:06, 5 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:* The juvenile flag should be set for both the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3033913 container] title and the new short story title.
 +
:* Worldcat claims this is #1 in the publication series
 +
:* Double check the format of your price
 +
: Hope this help. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 08:46, 15 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
::I'm still confused. I tried changing it into short fiction before, but then it didn't show up as a chapbook on the author's page. ''Should'' it show up as a chapbook, as well as short fiction? Is creating chapbooks a two-step process (creating it, then turning the contents into short fiction)?
 +
::And what do you mean about the format of the price? —[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 13:06, 15 May 2022 (EDT)
  
−
== Magazine format question. ==
+
::: I did the first two steps on the list for you. I created the content title [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5317667 step 1]. Then I set the juvenile flags [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5317665 step 2a] & [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5317669 step 2b]. All could have been done in your original submission except setting the flag on the content title. It's not visible in the new pub screen. It is a two step process if you are importing an existing content title. Is it clearer after seeing what I did? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 14:22, 15 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
::::Yes. Your actions showed me, not your words. --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 15:40, 15 May 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Quick question on magazine formats. Yes, I have looked at [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Template:PublicationFields:Format the help page]. For magazines, 8.5" x 11" and perfect bound, just confirming that we use tp instead of quarto. Thanks [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 09:48, 6 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== How to add entries for short stories that are part of a magazine issue ==
−
:  Well, we say usually, not always. :) Perfect bound is a lot more prevalent now because of how printers work so what would have been saddle-stapled a decade ago can go either way these days. And most new magazines are PODs. So either works really. If I am adding from secondary sources, I am more likely to go for tp; if I can see it, it depends on how it feels.[[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:24, 6 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: I'm working on [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?25515 Space and Time], adding missing issues, and reviewing existing issues. SFE3 says they went to perfect bound after issue 81. I'm going with tp unless anyone voices an objection. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 12:45, 6 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== William Hope Hodgson ==
+
I am completely stumped, so any help/pointers would be appreciated.
  
−
I've been adding some Turkish editions of William Hope Hodgson's works, but I'm stumped by [https://www.kitapyurdu.com/kitap/firtinanin-ardindaki/577881.html&manufacturer_id=139820 this book].  Google translator states that this book is called <b>Out of the Storm</b> but the story described seems to be [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?58911 The Voice in the Night].  Does anybody have any ideas? [[User:MLB|MLB]] 23:04, 11 October 2021 (EDT)
+
I noticed that Charles S. Wolfe has a number of short stories published in Electrical Experimenter (and Science and Invention) which are missing from the database, so I wanted to add them. After some digging around, it looks like the magazine issues are missing, so I think I need to start there, but how?
−
: Matching by title is not always a good idea - publishers and translators get creative in weird ways and match the wrong books - so careful with that. Let me see if i can figure out what they translated with this one. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 00:29, 12 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::Thanks. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 03:42, 12 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Schwarze Messen: Dichtungen und Dokumente ==
+
One specific example:
 +
Electrical Experimenter exists - check
 +
Issue from October 1920 does not - need to add it, but I cannot figure out how to do this
 +
Story "Loaded Line" by Charles S. Wolfe (and Electric Shoes by J. Mac-Richard) need to be added to that issue - again,I can't figure out how. {{Unsigned2| 22:07, 15 May 2022 |Kkz}}
  
−
Hello, something went wrong {{P|862221|Schwarze Messen: Dichtungen und Dokumente}}. The authors are not merged, so we have two Meyrinks: {{A|the original|5218}} and {{A|a new one|333652}}. When I am search "Meyrink" I find only the original. When I am search for duplicate for the new one I get no other title. I have no idea what to do. Help is very welcome. Thanks [[User:Henna|Henna]] 14:43, 12 October 2021 (EDT)
+
EDIT:
−
: I will try to fix it.  If I am successful, I will tell you what I did. :-)  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 14:52, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
+
OK, further digging and I see I can "Add New Magazine", and the stories as part of that. But how do I connect it to the over-arching "Electrical Experimenter 1920" group? Or is that automatic when I do Add from that page? {{Unsigned2|22:14, 15 May 2022|Kkz}}
−
: Unsuccessful.  I have consulted the Oracle.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 14:59, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:I fixed it by copying and pasting the correct name into the author field for the work. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:24, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: It is an invisible/non-printable character picked up during the copy/paste. The server already have a map of these to clean on "save" but there is a new one here - which needs to be added to the map and then scrapped from the authors which got caught into it. It happens now and again... and more of weird characters keep popping up. The only solution is to retype/copy-paste the author again in the broken record - but it also needs a fix on the code side. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:49, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::Yes, sorry about the obscure comment.  I pointed Ahasuerus at it so he could see what the offending character is.  I realize if we retype the name in the existing record it would cure this particular author's problem.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 16:29, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::: (removing the templates from the title of the message so the pointers can work properly). Yes - understood - I sent him the report I stumbled upon as well - I was just explaining what caused it (for anyone who had not been fighting these before) and how they got into the records and that even if we fix all of them on the site, they will happen again - as there is a new non-printable involved. Browsers being helpful when copying and grabbing stuff you cannot see - one of the reasons I almost never copy/paste directly from sites I am not using often - I paste in notepad and copy out from there. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:38, 13 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::::Many thanks to all of you. Now everything is fine. [[User:Henna|Henna]] 04:38, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== ISBN as printed, even if the check digit is wrong? ==
+
:Hi, and welcome.  To do that, you would enter the October 1920 issue first, using Add New Magazine as you discovered. Note that this is a non-genre magazine, so there are some special standards for how it should be entered.  See [[Help:Entering_non-genre_periodicals]] for how to do that.  Once that submission has been accepted, a second submission is needed to merge the October 1920 EDITOR record that will be created into the existing Electrical Experimenter - 1920 "group" (which is really just a single EDITOR record used to represent 1920).  Feel free to try -- submissions are moderated, so you cannot do any harm.  The moderator processing the submission will help address anything that is not as it should be.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 07:27, 16 May 2022 (EDT)
  
−
[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?37480 This publication] lists the ISBN slightly differently than [https://archive.org/details/conglomeroidcock00silv/ the printed copy, as scanned by the Internet Archive].
+
== Rotating Covers ==
  
−
{| class="wikitable"
+
So somehow I never noticed when editing an image to be uploaded to the Wiki that you can rotate it in addition to shrinking dimensions to 600 or less. I made an initial try with a cover I added from Amazon some time ago, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5321346, and while it's nice that the cover is now easy to see while still showing info on the spine it's clearly smaller. So is it common practice to add imperfect images from other sites because they're bigger, or rotate them to face forward but make them smaller and necessitate uploading to the Wiki? --[[User:Username|Username]] 11:44, 19 May 2022 (EDT)
−
|-
+
:Rotating (and skewing) covers can be a pain if you don't have the right tools. I approved your change, but then fixed the perspective of the cover so it was straight on. You may have to force a refresh to see the updated cover image. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:35, 19 May 2022 (EDT)
−
| Currently listed in ISFDB:
 
−
| 0-87795-5<u>'''7'''</u>7-8
 
−
|
 
−
|
 
−
|-
 
−
| [https://archive.org/details/conglomeroidcock00silv/page/n1/mode/1up?q=557 Shown on inside front dust jacket]:
 
−
| 0-87795-557-8
 
−
|
 
−
|
 
−
|-
 
−
| [https://archive.org/details/conglomeroidcock00silv/page/n7/mode/1up?q=557 Shown on copyright page]:
 
−
| 0-87795-557-8
 
−
|
 
−
|
 
−
|-
 
−
| [https://archive.org/details/conglomeroidcock00silv/page/n295/mode/1up Shown on back cover]:
 
−
| 0-87795-557-8
 
−
|
 
−
|
 
−
|-
 
−
| Printed variant if it had a valid ISBN-10 check digit:
 
−
| 0-87795-557-<u>'''3'''</u>
 
−
|  
 
−
|
 
−
|}
 
−
For what it's worth, the ISBN currently listed has a valid check digit—it just isn't what was printed.
 
  
−
What should be listed in the record?  [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 12:47, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:: https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5325072; I made an edit adding page #'s from FantLab and replaced the cover, but Amazon's cover, which doesn't seem to exist on current Amazon anymore except as a tiny measured photo incorrectly added to the 2017 Shadow edition, is bigger and framed better. While trying to find a bigger one to upload to head off the usual grousing about unnecessarily replacing a cover image I tried the shadowpublishing.net page but just got a Wix message, and the archived page has a broken image, although with a little searching you can get the 2017 Shadow cover, which is totally different (and not on ISFDB). I finally found what I think is the only photo online that shows the spine clearly, but the photo is badly done, as can be seen at the link above. So my question is, can you zoom it up so cover is clear while still showing the full spine? --[[User:Username|Username]] 13:55, 23 May 2022 (EDT)
−
: The correct one in the isbn field. The wrong one with no dashes in the catalog ID field if the field is not used for something else (helps with searches; only optional these days). And a complete explanation of the situation in the notes including what exactly is printed where. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:00, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:::We generally only include the spine (and the back cover) if it includes part of the front cover image. In this case, it's just a plain color, so there's really no reason to include it. It would violate fair use. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:59, 23 May 2022 (EDT)
−
:: Although for that  specific book - make sure we do not have two versions with two ISBNs. The above was a general answer on how to handle incorrect ISBNs in books. Especially when external sources like OCLC recognize the isbn that we have. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:02, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Fantastic Story Magazine ==
+
:::: Boy, in that case I hope nobody ever notices the MANY cover images I've entered which show the spine. When this edit is finally approved I'll restore the Amazon image, although it's still weird that the only place it seems to exist now is as a tiny photo incorrectly on the 2017 edition's Amazon page. --[[User:Username|Username]] 19:20, 23 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::::Well, now you know, and knowing is half the battle (as they say). In the future, unless the cover image wraps around onto the spine or the spine and the back cover, please avoid adding images with the spine. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 21:13, 23 May 2022 (EDT)
  
−
While looking up something else I [https://www.amazon.com/Fantastic-Magazine-FUTURE-Luxury-Notebook/dp/B08QS54B4K/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Fantastic+Story+Magazine&qid=1634339300&s=books&sr=1-1 found this].  Is this eligible for the database?  If so, as what?  If not, why?  Just would like to know the rules. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 22:46, 15 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:::::: Did some work on this a while back, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?34769, and today discovered the title, publisher and cover artist were wrong! I fixed those (cover artist as "Wayne Miller" needs to be merged after approval so it's as by M. Wayne Miller, I suppose) but this, [https://www.picclickimg.com/images/g/BNcAAOSwgOphN8j5/s-l1600.jpg], is the only online photo I can find that shows the full cover art. Too small now, but is there a way to crop out the book itself and enlarge the dustjacket so it can be uploaded? --[[User:Username|Username]] 14:02, 27 May 2022 (EDT)
−
: (now in the actual Help Desk): Not eligible because it is not a book really, it is a blank notebook/notepad (with lined pages in this case) with a fancy cover and a stiff price. The only way to have somehow added it would be to pretend it is an art book (so non fiction) but a single cover does not make an artbook.  With illustrations out of copyright, there are a lot of these floating around (and some even in copyright - there are usually at least 20 new notebooks with Harry Potter covers every year and when the year journals start showing up you get everything from Moleskine's Le Petit Prince to Star Wars and beyond on covers and don't get me started on some of the other media franchises, especially the juvenile ones). Now - if there was a new illustration every few pages or there was actually a story, it would be eligible because of them. As it is now, it is on the same level as a keyring with a scene from LOTR or a piece of original art of one of our artists. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 01:30, 16 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Titling essays in series ==
+
== Foreign language serialized webnovel, published for the first time in book form as English translation? ==
  
−
Hi, everyone. I was just combing the wiki for an answer to this question. If a magazine has a named regular column, and each individual column has its own title, how should they be titled here? Should each individual title be used, and the essays just put into a series named for the column's title?
+
I've been running into this situation more often with English translations of Japanese and Korean webnovels, and I'm not sure how to handle it on ISFDB.  
−
Thanks.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 02:36, 16 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
: You use the title as it is printed in the magazine (minus the column name) and then put them in a series using the column name. See [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?10404 Analog's The Alternative View] for one of the more famous examples. Or the later entries into [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?10400 Asimov's Reflections]. The "Column name (issue)" is used only if that specific installment of the column has no individual title. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 02:59, 16 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::Thanks, Annie. In the case of an interview in ''The Scream Factory'' #15, in the TOC an interview is called "TSF BiblioFile: Steve Rasnic Tem & Melanie Tem", but on the page of the interview, that title is on the right and "Scream Marriage" is above the text. TSF BiblioFile was the name of the interview series, apparently. Should I just call the interview "Scream Marriage"? And what should I call the interior art that goes with the series, not that specific interview?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 03:56, 16 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: For the interview, I'd call it just "Scream Marriage" - yes. Add a note in the publication notes explaining the TOC vs on the page naming.
 
−
::: For the art... if this interview is the only thing in the column, I will just call it the same as the interview - the column in this issue is the interview. If the section has more than one interview, "TSF BiblioFile (The Scream Factory, #15) or whatever the issue is called is probably better. If the same art exactly appears in all the magazines, just "TSF BiblioFile" may also work (with a note once created that it is the same art in all issues. Or I will just call it decoration and add only a note that it is there and just ignore it when doing the listing. :) But then I am prone to do that for insignificant interior art pieces sometimes. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 04:07, 16 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::Thanks, Annie!--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 04:13, 16 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Titling interior art ==
+
So here's one example: the Japanese webnovel [https://www.mangaupdates.com/series/bkwoehv/ryuu-no-ban-no-kinoko-hime-unmeita-dato-konyaku-hakisaretara-kinoko-no-hentai-ga-yattekimashita-novel 竜の番のキノコ姫　～運命だと婚約破棄されたら、キノコの変態がやってきました～ / Ryuu no Ban no Kinoko Hime - Unmeita Dato Konyaku Hakisaretara, Kinoko no Hentai ga Yattekimashita] was first published/serialized in 2020 on the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shōsetsuka_ni_Narō prominent] free Japanese webnovel site [https://ncode.syosetu.com/n5733gg/ Syosetu]. The original webnovel has NOT been published/collected into book form yet in Japanese. Now in 2022, the webnovel is being translated into English and published in multi-volume book form, with the first English volume released as [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3036496 The Dragon's Soulmate is a Mushroom Princess! Vol.1] (unknown number of the Japanese serial chapters that are being collected in each English book).
  
−
How should one title interior art that doesn't have anything to do with the text on the surrounding page? In issue #15 of ''The Scream Factory'', much of the interior art seems to be placed more or less randomly. For example, Greg Weber's two-headed doll sculpture appears on the same page as a bibliography of Peter Haining. Should I name the illo after the bibliography, since the illo has no title of its own, although it has nothing to with the bibliography?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 04:11, 16 October 2021 (EDT)
+
So how does this need to be added/indicated/varianted on ISFDB? Are the English volumes a series or a split novel? The [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:How_to_connect_serials_to_titles Help:How to connect serials to titles] page seems to suggest making the serialized work a variant of the novel title, but how can that be done while also making the English novel title a variant as a translation? Can the Japanese serial novel even be added as a publication since Syosetu is a free website? And other such questions, etc. [[User:Morebooks|Morebooks]] 11:34, 21 May 2022 (EDT)
−
: We do not name based on what it is printed next to, we name based on what it is illustrating and/or is associated with.
 
−
: If it illustrates something else in the issue, use the name in whatever it illustrates even if it is not close to the actual text physically.
 
−
: If it is just there and does not seem to connect to anything, use the name of the publication for the first one of these ("The Scream Factory, #15" for example, then "The Scream Factory, #15[2]" for the second one from the same artist and so on). The exact [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Template:TitleFields:Title help page] sentence for these is: "If it is independent of other content, and has no apparent title or caption, give it the title of the publication in which it appears, disambiguating if necessary.".
 
−
: So in your case, use the magazine's issue name as a title. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 04:17, 16 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Serialized Translations ==
+
:Off the top of my head, other foreign-language serial webnovels that were published in translated English book form before being published in book form in their original languages: [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?58722 The Werewolf Count and the Trickster Tailor], [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?66656 Under the Oak Tree], and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?60891 Beast Blood]. Under the Oak Tree is also being serialized in English translation chapters on [https://m.webnovel.com/book/under-the-oak-tree_21949582605391005 Webnovel.com], but I've no idea if that counts as a SFWA-qualifying market for ISFDB publication purposes. [[User:Morebooks|Morebooks]] 11:56, 21 May 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Should the translator template be added to serial titles, or is it's inclusion in the parent tile sufficient? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 12:02, 18 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:: As per [[ISFDB:Policy#Rules_of_Acquisition]], online serializations do not count as "being published" for ISFDB purposes unless they have been shortlisted for a major award or published by a SFWA-eligible market.
−
: It needs to be added in each installment. As we do not have a variant of a variant and the serials are directly under the original, we treat them as we would treat any other variant. Plus keep in mind that unless the story/novel translation is also printed in its entirety somewhere else, there is np combined title in the correct language anyway. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:08, 18 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: Thanks [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 12:23, 18 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Variant name help ==
+
:: I have repeatedly run into this issue while working on [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?61427 Cross Infinite World]. Apparently, the way they run their business is that they contact Japanese authors of online serials which haven't been published as a book, buy translation rights and publish the work in the US.
  
−
Today I added a Michael Arnzen collection, {{P|864045|The Selected Works of Michael Arnzen: Needles and Sins}}, but Michael Arnzen is a variant name. Would someone change it, and the stories I haven't varianted, to Michael A. Arnzen, as by Michael Arnzen?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 01:24, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:: As far as I can tell the rules-compliant way to enter these kinds of books is to do what we did with [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?338326 this author]: Enter the translated book as we would enter any other book, then turn it into a variant title of an "8888-00-00" (i.e. unpublished) Japanese novel. Any information about online serialization can be added to the parent title record as a note.
−
: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?864045 this book] (you have a title ID used in a publication template which does not work very well)? I am not sure what exactly you are asking. So let's start with the first question:
 
−
:* How is the author credited in the book? If they are credited as Michael Arnzen, that's the versions that need to be used and then they get varianted to the canonical.
 
−
: As the cover says Michael Arnzen, unless you know that he is credited otherwise inside of the book, these are correct and then the stories which has no parents need to be varianted up. Are you asking someone to finish the varianting?
 
−
: If you are asking something else, can you please clarify? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 01:32, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::Sorry, I fixed the link. Yes, I want the book and the orphaned stories to be varianted up. Thanks!--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 01:56, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::Can someone finish the varianting?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 13:51, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: I’ll finish it when I am back on a computer. If it is urgent, you can always just do it yourself - it involves the same number of steps regardless of who does it. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:26, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::How is it done?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 15:16, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::: Ah, you never needed to do variants that do not have an existing parent? Sorry, did not realize that.
 
−
::::: Let's work with "A Lust for Lungs". Go to the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2934599 title record]. Press on "Make This Title a Variant". You want Option 2. Change the author name to the canonical name (Michael A. Arnzen in our case) in there and press submit. Once approved, a new title will appear under the canonical name and the two will be automatically connected. Rinse and repeat for all the titles. Let me know if you want to try or if you want me to do them. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:53, 19 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::::Thanks, Annie. I've done them now. It's good to know I can do that.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 01:51, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::::: And all approved and the book looks fine to me - but check it one more time just in case. Outside of a very few things which only moderators can do (change the name of an author for example), anyone can change/connect anything - so if you are not sure how, just ask. If you ever work translations, that's also how you make an original title we do not have a record for yet - you just change the title, language and date (and eventually the author if needed) and you have a parent for your translation. Or you can add the book in the other language and then variant but even I would not try that in some languages (I'd add a parent title in most language but whole books are complicated). Let me know if I can assist further! :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 02:11, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
What about {{T|2942425|this}} interview? The interviewee has an alternate name.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 21:02, 4 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:[http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Template:TitleFields:Interviewee Template:TitleFields:Interviewee] provides the answer. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 21:19, 4 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::Thank you!--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 21:26, 4 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Translation question ==
+
:: Personally, I am not thrilled about this approach, but that's what the rules appear to require at this time. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:51, 22 May 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Have a situation with the following facts. A subsequent serialization of <i>Joseph Olenin's Coat</i>, 2016 which is a translation of <i>Le Manteau de Joseph Olenine</i>,1886. I see two possible treatments.
+
== Currency--Iranian Rial ==
−
# Variant the serial titles to the 2016 translation and add title notes showing the original French title and publication data. (Drawback - all English titles on a French author's bibliography page.)
 
−
# Variant the serial titles to the original French publication. --[[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 16:13, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
Which is the correct treatment? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 16:13, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
: Into the French. If the story was ever published as non-serialized English version, that one will become a translation of the French as well. See [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?46412 The Italian Serialization] for an example. We do not support variant of a variant so everything always get varianted into the original/canonical title. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:30, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: I'll try to find enough to also add the original non-serialized version published in <i>The Cossack Review</i>. Thanks for your help [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 16:41, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: The more versions we have, the better. PS: If you want to indicate that a serialization is the same as a non-serialized version, you use the notes :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:52, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::: Non-serialized version added as you suggested. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 23:57, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Mountain Magic (Wellman version) ==
+
On this [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?899675 entry] I couldn't enter the actual symbol for Iranian Rial--﷼--because, Persian being a right-to-left language, the software won't let it be entered before the figures. I kept getting ﷼185,000. So I used "IRs 185,000", with the English translation of the symbol, since we don't use the currency codes (in this case IRR). I explained it in the Pub Note. The Iranian Rial isn't on the List of Currency Symbols help page. Is this the way to go with it, or is there a correction? When that's sorted out, the rial can be included on that list. (I see another book on the publisher's website that I want to enter.) [[User:MOHearn|MOHearn]] 09:23, 22 May 2022 (EDT)
  
−
One of the titles I need to include in a new Baen CD-ROM Library publication is [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?280957 Mountain Magic (Wellman version)]. Looking at the notes for that pub record, there is an explicit statement that the publication is supposed to be an Anthology. It is currently an Omnibus but looking back at some of the edit history, it was obviously originally an Anthology. Even using Import for the titles themselves, including it in the new Baen CD-ROM Library publication's notes is massive since it's an Omnibus consisting of over 40 titles; including an Anthology would be much, much simpler. :) Can anyone comment on this? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 13:16, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
+
: Curious. Let me see what I can do at the software level. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:56, 22 May 2022 (EDT)
−
: You are hitting again the industry vs ISFDB definitions. In ISFDB: a novel and two collections and other stuff make an omnibus. If you remove the two internal collections (not their contents, just the containers), you have one novel and a LOT of stories - which can be an anthology. So you have two choices:
 
−
:* Remove the collections, making it an anthology
 
−
:* Keep as is - so it is an omnibus. I'd do that because then you keep the relationship to the collections
 
−
: However... You WILL want to include the contents anyway. You do not need to do it one by one - look at the Import screen - option 1 allows you to import ALL titles from another book in 1 step - so it does not matter what type it is really - I'd be importing the contents into the Disks (and not just the containers) regardless of the container type. Then the Disk will show on the listing for a story - as opposed to just having the collection and needing to drill to see where the collection may be. Simpler is almost never better.  :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:25, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Eligibility of a graphic novel that includes a text story ==
+
:: I have tried a few things, but nothing seemed to work to get "﷼" to display to the left of the numeric value. It looks like we'll have to use "IRs" for now. We'll need to keep this in mind when implementing {{FR|1158}}, "Allow multiple prices per publication". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 22:21, 22 May 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Sanity check to avoid wasting the time of me and a mod on something that would be rejected: is [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Untitled/dp/1785865889/ a graphic novel] that contains [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1631831 a text story] eligible for inclusion?  (Probably just adding that story to the contents, but skipping the comic story.) [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 17:02, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
+
Thanks for looking into it. I'll stick with "IRs," then. [[User:MOHearn|MOHearn]] 07:19, 23 May 2022 (EDT)
−
: The story is eligible. The Graphic story is not (unless we say that the author (Schwab) is above threshold which may well be the case). So two options:
 
−
:* Add as a non-genre collection with the prose story added and a note explaining the situation in the TITLE note. Do not click on "graphic" anywhere :)
 
−
:* Treat Schwab as above threshold - so a collection again but now genre and with both stories added.
 
−
:I'd do the first but you decide what you want to do. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:12, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
:: Thanks - the threshold policy is a bit too mysterious for me, so I'll be going with the first option. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 17:48, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== A Sending of Dragons ==
−
:::I'd consider V. E. Schwab definitely above the threshold, so I'd include the graphic story, too. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 18:55, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::: But will they be in 10 years? With SF getting more and more mainstream, determining treshold becomes a lot more complicated for living authors - some like Gaiman are obvious but some not that much. I see a lot mode YA authors publishing on both sides - and you never know where the majority will end up - it used to be so much easier. I tend to agree for Schwab, she seems to be safely over.  I’m fine either way - but we may need to rehash some of our definitions. Although based on our rules, if the graphic story is added, it will need not only be marked as graphic but as non-genre as well because it is not speculative fiction/not related to speculative fiction under our definition of the genre. No graphic novel can be considered genre under our definition due to the very clear exception kicking them out even if it is admitted as an above threshold author work. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 01:09, 23 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::::I suspect she will be in ten years, too. And I agree we need to rehash some of the definitions. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 02:22, 25 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Pub verified by inactive editor with blatantly incorrect page count ==
+
For [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?1107 this] edition of this Jane Yolen book, secondary sources disagree about the number of pages. WorldCat and Reginald3 say 184 p.; Locus and Amazon say 256. What should be done? --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 23:35, 23 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
:It looks like it's done correctly. It has notes that explain the discrepancy. Until someone gets a copy of that specific edition, we don't have a way to check to make sure. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:12, 24 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
::Should it be marked "verified" by any of those sources? --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 14:50, 25 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::As Secondary verifications: yes. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 18:27, 25 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::: And even after we have a copy, a note explaining the page numbers discrepancy should stay. It happens a lot :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:18, 27 May 2022 (EDT)
  
−
[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?623231 This pub] was verified as having a third of a million pages, but the editor who PVed is inactive.  There's [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?563027 a similar looking pub] with a more plausible page count that's a substring of the dubious page count.  Would it be reasonable to correct the erroneous pub to have the same page count, or would it be better to blank out the page count field, so as not to have apparently verified data that hasn't actually been verified?  (Possibly with a pub note tweak to state as such?) [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 17:57, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Stories by John Wyndham, adapted for younger readers ==
−
: Fix and add a note saying "Page number corrected on DATE and after all the verifications based on OCLC/BNF/edition X whatever source gave you the number; original value was "XXXX" or words to that effect. Or remove the page number and leave a similar note. That way it is clear why it was changed, when and that the verifiers had not looked at the book again. That's the general way to correct any incorrect info in the physical fields/data in a PVd book where a PV cannot be raised to check for an error. No changes without notes even if they are that blatantly wrong unless they are just formatting/moving stuff in the correct fields.  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:10, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: Thanks - [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5129867 edit submitted]. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 18:48, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: And rejected. You added the note. You missed to fix the actual field. Want to try again? Also - for this book you have better sources: [https://www.worldcat.org/title/louve-et-lenfant/oclc/469748364 OCLC says 441] and [https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb39205473g BNF says 441]. Which explains the typo - someone was correcting from 350 to 442. So please be careful when correcting based on other editions especially when one is pb and the other tp (hint: tp have bigger pages, not necessarily bigger fonts in those days) or they are across unrelated publishers (different fonts used) - sorry, was explaining the principle above and missed to check if your similar editions are similar. For older books OCLC/BNF/other local library is almost sure to have some data. So add the two IDs, add the pages based on that and then add the note that the page number is updated on that date, post verification based on the OCLC/BNF numbers correcting the old value of 350442. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:22, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::: And [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?623231 fixed]. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:38, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: BTW, I dunno if this is something that would be worth having a cleanup report for?  The very basic SQL query I've been using to pick out some of these dodgy pubs is:
 
  
−
    select * from (select pub_id, pub_title, pub_pages, CAST(pub_pages AS INT) num_pages from pubs where pub_ctype = 'NOVEL' ) foo order by num_pages desc limit 50;
+
How should "Meteor: Short Stories" be entered? It's a collection of short stories by Wyndham, adapted by [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?169826 Patrick Nobes] for children. How should the stories be entered? As by both? --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 14:55, 25 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
:Yes, they should be entered as by both. Make sure each story has a note on it explaining it's an edited version of the original story, for children. That way, people won't mistakenly try to variant them since they are different versions (and likely different lengths) than the originals. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 18:26, 25 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
::Thank you. --[[User:Rosab618|<font color="pink">Rosab618</font>]] 12:06, 26 May 2022 (EDT)
  
−
:: This gets to novel pubs around 1450 pages, which I guess is the point at which the entered page counts are probably correct?  I'm sure something more intelligent could be put together, but perhaps that's a start? (NB: a couple of these are picked up by [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?288 the existing report], but not most of them.)  [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 18:48, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Turning a novel into a collection ==
−
::: So submit a bug for the report - we have a report, it just needs a bit of fixing. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:59, 24 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Need help with basic uploading. ==
+
I'm trying to turn [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?334637 The Monster of the Lagoon] into a collection, with a novella and a novelette. How do I do this? --[[User:Rosab618|<font color="aqua">Rosab618</font>]] 03:55, 27 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
: Edit the publication. Change the type to collection and then add a new title record from the type collection in the contents section - this will become the reference title of the book (this title is created automatically when you create a new collection but NOT on a conversion/edit as at this point we assume the reference title is there - so you need to make it yourself). Let me know if you want me to do it so you can look at my update or if you want to try yourself. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:17, 27 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
::Thanks! I thought I tried that yesterday and it didn't work, but today it did. ----[[User:Rosab618|<font color="gold">Rosab618</font>]] 17:17, 27 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
::: You probably forgot to change the pub type or picked chapbook by mistake or something like tat - the changes need to go together - the publication won't save otherwise. It is one of the checks that make sure that the publication looks ok. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:13, 27 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
::::I don't think so, but you never know. --[[User:Rosab618|<font color="violet">Rosab618</font>]] 12:29, 28 May 2022 (EDT)
  
−
I uploaded [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Image:PLRSTRLGHT2021.jpg this cover], which is not the whole cover. (Had a moment). Tried the upload a new version link and pointed to the image of the whole cover. I kept the original file name. Got the warning that this is the same image, uploaded it anyway as the old image was replaced. The old image was uploaded again. Any suggestions?[[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 09:09, 28 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Adding a cover image ==
−
:Your browser may have cached the prior image.  Try doing a shift refresh and see if the latest appears.  Also, is it OK if I delete the earlier uploads?  Thanks. --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 09:36, 28 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: Thanks Ron, that was it. Yes get rid of the old versions. I have to do the same for the other two issues, you can get rid of those as soon as I do them. Give me 20 minutes. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 09:42, 28 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Repeated title in the same publication ==
+
I'm trying to upload an image. It's within the size limit and it's a jpeg, but every time I try to upload it, I'm told that it's too big. Can anyone explain the problem? --[[User:Rosab618|<font color="lightgreen">Rosab618</font>]] 03:16, 31 May 2022 (EDT)
  
−
I have found instances where the same title is repeated, by the author, within a given publication. However, separate title records were created when originlly entered into the database. Is the best fix, remove one title, merge, import the merged title back into the publication, put a note in the title record? Or is there a better way? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 17:41, 28 October 2021 (EDT)
+
: On the [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Image:BLNKCRDJML1977.jpg image page] I get "BLNKCRDJML1977.jpg‎ (file size: 90 KB, MIME type: image/jp2)" at the top, followed by a warning "This file may contain malicious code, by executing it your system may be compromised".
−
: Happens with poetry and very short shorts. There are two possible scenarios here with 3 possible ways to handle:
+
: Even though the extension is .jpg, the file seems to be .jp2  I guess the software can't handle this. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 06:10, 31 May 2022 (EDT)
−
:* Same title, different text - one of them needs to be disambiguated and they are NOT connected after that; notes need to be added to explain what is going on (and which is which so they don't get merged again and so it is clear which one to use if they get reprinted (for poetry, I'd use the first line to disambiguate one of them or even both in this case - makes matching later easier bu the usual [2] also works, the first line goes into the notes in that case).
 
−
:* Same title, same text - one of them get disambiguated and then varianted to the other one (due to a software limitation - you cannot have the same title record twice in the same publication). You won't be able to reimport it again after a merge as it is already there - thus the workaround here. Alternatively, list it only in the first appearance and add a note listing the rest of the pages it appears on.
 
−
: Let me know if I can assist further. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:56, 28 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: I'm glad I asked first. Disambiguate and variant was not intuitive, yet this is what needs to be done. Thanks [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 18:05, 28 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: Yep - sometimes we need to do weird things because of how the software works. It can be changed but it will requite a lot of effort and cannot be done overnight - so we work inside of the framework of what we have. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:14, 28 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Merge Pyr publishers ==
+
::There were definitely some errors in the file. I've fixed them and uploaded the fixed version: [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Image:BLNKCRDJML1977.jpg here]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 11:05, 31 May 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::Thank you, but that's not the image I was trying to upload. I have a much bigger, clearer one. I can't figure it out. --[[User:Rosab618|<font color="purple">Rosab618</font>]] 00:07, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
::::There are two size limits:
 +
::::#Diminsions - 600px max is an ISFDB convention and is not enforced by the software.
 +
::::#File Size - there is also a maximum file size, this is enforced by the software.
 +
::::It sounds like you are hitting the second one. You will need to edit the picture to reduce the resolution. Images should be only of sufficient resolution to identify the cover. They should not be high-res or otherwise allow a nice printing to made of them. ISFDB uses cover images under US copyright's "fair use" doctrine and anything too large violates that. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 07:39, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::::It's not too large—361 x 598 pixels. How do I reduce the resolution/file size? --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 10:16, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
::::::As I said, there are two sizes. You are over the second. How to reduce it depends on your image editing software. You will need to check the help or Google instructions for whatever program you use. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 11:13, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
::::::Where did you get the image? If you can point me to it, I'll be happy to make it the right size (file and dimensions) and upload it. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:35, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::::::Thank you! I think it's [https://pictures.abebooks.com/inventory/30889449922.jpg this one], but I had cropped it nicely. Oh well. Thanks for your help! --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 20:21, 4 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
::::::::It looks like that's the same as the one I added, but cropped slightly. You can see the same scuffing and reflections on it. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:35, 7 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::::::::Thank you!--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 22:00, 11 June 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Seems that perhaps <b>Pyr</b> [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?4317] and <b>Pyr / Prometheus Books</b> [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?27864] publishers should be merged. The description of <b>Pyr</b> talks about Prometheus Books, and it seems likely to be just an old vs new recording style issue.  Thoughts? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 17:00, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Hardwired: The Sourcebook ==
−
: Oh yes - they are the same publisher - we have a few pairs like that in the DB (I just posted about another one of these [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal#Puffin_vs_Puffin_.2F_Penguin_Books_.28UK.29 here] earlier this week and : getting ready to go ping PVs about it)...
 
−
: Generally agree that we should merge them (look at a random year for both of them - it seems like in the years when both are used, the ebooks went to Pyr, the paper books to the longer name - but even that is not consistent or make any sense to split them this way) but there are a lot of PVs on the publications of both so I'd leave this here for a few days to see if someone else will chime in with a disagreement and/or notes and if it gets ignored, I'd ping a few of the more active PVs with books caught into this. . [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:13, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: I'm curious what you are proposing to do. Pyr is an imprint of Prometheus Books, are you proposing to eliminate the use of just the imprint? If so, I believe you need a standards change. Ultimately, we may get to a point where both the imprint and publisher are required, and I support that. P.S. I'm one of the PV's. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 17:59, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: Under the current rules both of these are valid names for the same publisher while Pyr was an imprint of Prometheus (using just the Imprint name when it does not cause confusion is allowed and we have other examples like that - and in cases like that we "standardize" into one of the two OR we find a separation line between the two forms if there is a clear one). The way these two publishers are used now splinters the Pyr record and gains us nothing. Pyr had always been an imprint - first of Prometheus Books and since 2018 of Start Publishing. So we have 2 choices here:
 
−
:::* Split into two publishers based on this change of ownership - so all pre-2018 books go into Pyr / Prometheus Books and all later ones into Pyr / Start Publishing (or maybe just Pyr)
 
−
:::* Combine all Pyr books together into Pyr and explain the corporate ownership in the notes
 
−
::: I'd vote for the latter - Pyr is Pyr regardless of who happened to own it at a certain time. But I tend to prefer that to splintering records based on corporate decisions which barely register with a reader and making the DB all but unusable for Publishers' listings. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:14, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::: I thought you were suggesting the opposite, hence my question. The publications I PV'd are all just Pyr. Since that is where you're going, I'm fine with it.  [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 18:37, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::: If we merge everything into a single publisher, it cannot be "Pyr / Prometheus Books" due to the 2018 change. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:45, 29 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
(unindent) In the mean time, I'd like guidance on what I should do with some books that I've PVed with this issue. Two of the three U.S. paperback publications of the series [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?12247] are set to publisher <b>Pyr</b>, but all marked <b>Pyr | an Imprint of Prometheus Books</b>. Should I start to attempt an edit (after consulting active PVers) to the full <b>Pyr / Prometheus Books</b>? Or hope that it gets dealt somehow, sometime in the future with a more global publisher change? Thanks. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 15:30, 7 November 2021 (EST)
+
Can I add [https://www.amazon.com/Hardwired-Sourcebook-Walter-Jon-Williams/dp/0937279072/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2DD0YB7DNF4WE&keywords=0937279072&qid=1654568220&s=books&sprefix=0937279072%2Cstripbooks%2C156&sr=1-1 this book], by Walter Jon Williams? It's a supplement to a role-playing game, apparently. --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 22:27, 6 June 2022 (EDT)
−
: As long as you discuss with the PVs, sure. There won’t be any major changes coming short term so we operate under the rules as they are now. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:40, 7 November 2021 (EST)
+
:Despite what the cover says, it's likely not written by Williams. There's likely a team of people who wrote the content in the book. Unless it has short fiction parts in it (like [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?613811 this one], for example), it shouldn't be added. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:38, 7 June 2022 (EDT)
−
::My thoughts are to use "Pyr" and note the change of ownership in publisher notes. Using this does not show where the split takes place in 2018, but if we split the publishers as described above we can use this info when publisher is upgraded to "Imprint" and "Publisher/Parent" field. The splitting is only useful for 2018, so Id still merge into "Pyr".[[User:Kraang|Kraang]] 20:41, 8 November 2021 (EST)
+
:: I found a downloadable PDF of this sourcebook. Credits page state the author is Walter Jon Williams "with supplimental material by Mike Pondsmith" and "Netrunning suppliment by Pati Nagle" the copyright to R. Talsorian Games, Inc. is dated 1989. --[[User:Mavmaramis|Mavmaramis]] 02:04, 19 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::What does it say on the title page? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:38, 20 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::: There is no title page - the copyright page is basically the title page, copyright and credits rolled into one - it's the first page after the cover and states "by Walter John Williams" --[[User:Mavmaramis|Mavmaramis]] 14:54, 21 June 2022 (EDT)
  
−
== ARC edition clarification ==
+
== Strike Fighters, by Tom Willard ==
  
−
Previous discussions about ARC editions and Patreon editions seem to indicate that we are not creating publication records for those items. If that's the policy, what should be done if there's a pub record already created for an ARC edition? I just discovered this record [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?299587 Storm from the Shadows ARC]. The associated title record [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?927592 here] needs to have its date adjusted to match the earliest pub date but what date should be used, the date from the hardcopy edition or the date from the ARC? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 08:37, 30 October 2021 (EDT)
+
Yea or nay: do you think [https://www.goodreads.com/series/344951-strike-fighters this series] belongs on the db? It's in Reginald3.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 23:06, 11 June 2022 (EDT)
−
: Your first assertion is correct, ARCs are generally not indexed but with a few exceptions. I don't recall it being discussed much in the last ten years, however I do recall past reference being made to a discussion circa 2011 where it was pretty much agreed that only ARCs with an allocated ISBN should be indexed, and even then when it is also being sold by the publisher to the public, and that the date should be entered as "8888-00-00" (ie. unpublished) with any actual ARC publication date included in the notes, with the publication of the proper first edition being the true "First Edition" date. I don't know if this ever became written policy, and this approach may indeed have been superceded in the intervening 10 years. I have a few ARCs for which collectors of them would love to see some bibliographic referencing for, yet I've never entered them here given the ISFDB's general antipathy towards them. Can any other seasoned editor point to something in black-and-white that can clarify? [[User:PeteYoung|PeteYoung]] 16:53, 30 October 2021 (EDT)
+
:Does anyone have an opinion? --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 16:58, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
::The ninth book in the series, ''Death Squad'', apparently has at least one airship in it, which would possibly make it science fiction. Not sure about any of the others. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:23, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::"It is not a balloon! It is an air ship! Balloons are for kiddiewinks!"
 +
:::But what ''is'' the difference between an airship and a zeppelin?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 21:08, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
::::Depends on how it's defined in the book. A zeppelin is a type of airship. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:38, 16 June 2022 (EDT)
  
−
:: I believe the last iteration of this discussion [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Rules_and_standards_discussions#Early_releases_from_Baen_and_Patreon was in February-July 2021]. I agree that it would be desirable to have whatever we can decide on formalized. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:11, 30 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Adding Open Library cover ==
  
−
::: I just discovered that Baen included the eARC of <i>Mission of Honor</i> as part of Baen CD-ROM Library #22 <i>The Mission of Honor Disk</i> which I'm currently preparing to add to the DB. Until we have a decision, I'll just enter it as a note instead of a new title even though that title is the reason that the CD-ROM was created. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 18:39, 1 November 2021 (EDT)
+
I'm trying to add the cover [https://openlibrary.org/books/OL4733462M/The_magic_grandfather here] to the book's page, but how do I do it? --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 04:43, 12 June 2022 (EDT)
  
−
== Need help with an author photo upload ==
+
: I'd do it by (right-)clicking on the image, save it somewhere and then upload it. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 08:52, 12 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
::But there's a way to just use the url. It has to be the right url, though. Which? --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 12:00, 12 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::Not for this OL record. OL is linking to an image from archive.org which is not on our [[ISFDB:Image linking permissions|permitted list]]. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 12:10, 12 June 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Can't seem to load [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Image:Boles%C5%82aw_Le%C5%9Bmian.jpg this image] into [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?334716 Bolesław Leśmian]. Think I did tag and upload out of order. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 13:39, 30 October 2021 (EDT)
+
== Page count rules: The Autumn Castle ==
−
:There is not an upload option for author photos that tags them. You have to manually apply one of the tags (see [[:Category:Image License Tags]] for available tags). You then click on the image, copy the URL, edit the author page, and paste the URL (similar as you do for cover images). Hope that makes sense. Let us know if you have further questions. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 13:52, 30 October 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Binti trilogy unrelated titles across languages ==
+
While PVing [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?74247 The Autumn Castle] I came across notes that seem to imply the rules for entering the page count is different than how I read the rules. The book has numbered pages up to 552, and does indeed include an excerpt. Has this changed over time? Should I submit an edit? (I haven't had much luck getting responses from Chavey recently). --[[User:GlennMcG|Glenn]] 01:29, 13 June 2022 (EDT)
  
−
I just noticed there are 3 separate title entries for the collected Nnedi Okarafor's Binti trilogy across different languages:
+
: If I remember correctly the rules were just interpreted differently: in 2010 it was not usual to include excerpts (but allowed), today excerpts are included almost every time. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 02:07, 13 June 2022 (EDT)
  
−
* [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2485001 English language omnibus], which also has a German variant
+
:: The last numbered page should be used. See the first row in the table [[Help:How_to_determine_the_value_for_the_%22Pages%22_field_in_a_book#Counting_additional_content|here]]. As a nice compromise to capture the spirit of what the other PVer wanted, if you add the excerpt as content, with the page number where it starts, the page count for the novel will be implied quite clearly. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 10:45, 13 June 2022 (EDT)
−
* [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2858517 French collection]
 
−
* [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2872323 Portuguese collection]
 
  
−
IIRC the omnibus vs collection disparity comes from the third in the trilogy being long enough to be considered a novel.  (There may also be a consideration that there's also a fourth novelette in this series, which may or may not be present in the various omnibuses or collections.  IIRC that's not usually something that impacts varianting though?)
+
== Alternate versions - forking series ==
  
−
Should these be kept as-is, or should the title type be made consistent, and the French and Portuguese titles be made variants? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 09:28, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
+
Tamara Siler Jones (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?28698) published three novels in a series.
  
−
: EDIT: On closer inspection, this is a bit messy, because this nominal "trilogy" has four stories, it looks like the French and Portuguese collections have 2 novellas and a novelette, whereas the German omnibus has the 2 novellas and the novel, and the English omnibus has all 4 stories.  My confusion is further compounded by only one of these 4 titles having the content field specified, and the one that does is arguably wrong - at [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2403662 title level] it has "1-3", whereas [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?675062 the pub details] show 1, 3 and 4 as the contents ... [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 09:45, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
+
Years later, as Tambo Jones, she published versions of the same books, but broken into installments and forked. The first two books were broken into a total of 11 installments - one common installment to launch the series, and then five more installments in each branch of the series. The 'Red' Series is the original first two novels broken into installments. The 'Blue' series is a new, alternate branch. The Blue series continues into a third book (three more installments), while the Red series forks again, for two versions of the original third book (a Red version and an Orange version). A graphic that's much easier to follow is here:
−
:: EDIT#2: Checking the Amazon BR preview of the Portuguese ebook, it turns out we have the contents wrong - it contains the 2 novellas and the concluding novel, and not the novelette.  (The French book does have the novellas and novelette though.)  I'll submit an edit to fix the Portuguese contents.
+
http://www.tambojones.com/2020/12/19/publishing-update/
−
:: This confusion does make me think that this series should be renumbered though, as 1 (the opening Binti novella), 1.5 (the novelette), 2 (the Binti Home novella) and 3 (Binti: The Night Masquerade).  This would make the contents numbering on the German omnibus correct, and makes the Portuguese "Trilogia Completa" look (slightly) less inaccurate.  Any objections? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 11:22, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?4191908 This] the update that got our order all weird instead of inserting the novelette as 1.5 (and then noone thought to go clean the collections and omnibuses notes). But yes - Home Should be #2 and all should flow from there. See also [https://nnedi.com/books/binti.html the author site].
 
−
::: PS: Careful with international editions - make sure you really are sure who translated what :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:07, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::: Thanks.  I've got edits accepted or pending to fix this up; although I'll hold off from removing the novelette for a few days in case the editor who originally added it think it genuinely does exist in Portuguese. (The only Google hits I got for it were from ISFDB) [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 18:11, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::: Paulotecario‎ occasionally disappears so it is unclear when he will be back. Check with the moderator who approved as well - [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5009105 Rudam] may have some memories where he verified that it is indeed there as I do not see a note on sources in the submission. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:21, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::::I have all the English releases, if anyone needs me to look at them. I don't think I've verified the information here yet, though. They're good stories, though. :) ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 18:43, 2 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::::: Thanks - I think all the English details are OK, other than the meta issue of the series numbering, which is hopefully now fixed.
 
−
::::::: One related question: I just went to add the series and content numbers to the French collection, but I get a popup saying that only omnibuses can have content numbers.  This restriction isn't mentioned on [[Template:TitleFields:TitleType]] and whilst [[Template:TitleFields:Content]] only mentioned omnibuses, it doesn't explain why the content numbers can't be used on collections. My understanding - primarily an earlier Wiki discussion about Binti the Night Masquerade and the knock-on effect on the English language compilation IIRC - was that that a collection becomes an omnibus if it contains a novel, but what happens if the numbered stories are novellas?  (Apologies if this has been discussed previously - a cursory wiki search didn't throw up anything that looked relevant.)
 
−
::::::: (Given that the Brazilian collection turns out to have 2 novellas and a novel, I assume that can be converted to an omnibus and then made a variant of the English language one.) [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 08:31, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::::::: The Content field is indeed for omnibuses only. We Used to allow it before - that’s where jvn used to go before we had a checkbox fro example. But since it remained only for the content numbers, it had been omnibus restricted. You cannot have everything treated everywhere - it is on the page of the field and you are supposed to read those for fields you rarely use (or want to use in new circumstances). If you think the help page needs to be updated, make a proposal in R&S :) I’ve tried twice to get community support to allow its usage for collections/anthologies for exactly this kind of cases and people did not care much so that’s it :).  
 
−
:::::::: For the Brazilian one - yes, it needs to match the type. In my book one novel does not make an omnibus but that’s fine as long as they match. But don’t connect them until we resolve the case of that fantom novelette - we only variant exact omnibuses IMO - extra titles make them different because of the Content field so they stay on their own. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:59, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::::::: Can you put [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5140635 the variant edit] on hold then please? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 13:15, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::::::::: Yup. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:16, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
<<deindent>>
 
−
Thanks.  BTW, I just checked the Amazon preview of [https://www.amazon.de/Binti-Sammelband-Nnedi-Okorafor-ebook/dp/B079YX2ZKC/ the German ebook] (not currently in the database, but presumably the same contents as the physical edition that is) and it does appear to lack the novelette, as recorded in the database, so presumably should be unvarianted from the English language omnibus? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 13:31, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
: See that IMO up there in my statement? We have somewhat conflicting practices on that. If they are collections, we will usually variant translated collections with minor differences (missing story or 2 or added story or two - otherwise way too many collections will just never get connected anywhere and that serves no purpose) and just add a note). With omnibuses as we list contents on the field, it is trickier and never clear where to draw the line. I would not variant them. Some people do. If they are, the content field should show very clearly that they are different (Which in my book means they should not be varianted at all - so round and round we go). :) Comes down to our definition of variants and what minor is. Another thing we need to codify a bit better but all attempts had failed so far so we kinda play it by the ear. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:45, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== The 1635: The Eastern Front Disk ISO ==
+
The original novels are in ISFDB. The branched installments are not. My question: how should they be entered?
 +
1. I've see an FAQ that for a novel broken into pieces, each piece should be entered as a novel.
 +
2. I've seen info on how to handle alternate author names or book titles.
 +
3. I have not see how to handle fully alternate versions (not just minor changes, but a new branch entirely). This is somewhat similar to Orson Scott Card's Ender/Bean (Shadow) split, but there the split storylines are consistent. Here, I believe they are mutually exclusive. Jones has provided different series names, but there's still the problem that, for example, the first installment is part one of two different series (three, if you count in the second fork).
  
−
While preparing the data for creating the new Baen CD-ROM Library title "The 1635: The Eastern Front Disk", I discovered that at least one of the component collections has a different title depending on which of the eight file formats is viewed. In this case, "Rx for Chaos" is the canonical title and is used in the .doc, .epub, and .rtf format files. On the other hand, "Prescription for Chaos" is used in the .htm and .mobi format files. (I don't know about the .lit, .lrf, and the .rb file types because I don't have any software that will open them to check.)
+
I'm not sure I'm the person to enter all this, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling, since I think the writing in the books (original novels, at least) is excellent. <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Evil Overlord|Evil Overlord]] ([[User talk:Evil Overlord|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Evil Overlord|contribs]]) .</small> 09:21, 19 June 2022 (EDT)
  
−
I think that I should handle this as follows:
+
: Apologies for the delay in getting you feedback.  The problem is complicated, and any organization attempt is going to be hampered by ISFDB's current limitations. Titles cannot be in more than one series, so you ultimately have to pick one (or none) and note the others.  Series, however, can have sub-series.  So one idea I have for you is that you could have the shared first installment in a higher-level/parent series, and then the subsequent installments could be in branch-specific sub-series. For the jumping-off point, you might need to invent a series.  For example, using her terminology and organization, you might have something like:
−
* Include the canonical collection title with its component titles imported like normal with the page number set for example to |1.1
+
:: Series: '''Dubric Multi-Timeline'''
−
* Include the new "Prescription for Chaos" title with the page number set for example to |1.2 . Once the new title record is created, make it a variant of the canonical title. (I don't think there's a reason to import the component titles from the canonical title since they would be duplicates and not show anyway.)
+
::: 1 Title: ''Weight of the Castellan's Curse''
−
* Create notes describing the two title/file format situation.
+
::: 2a Series: '''Winter of Ghosts'''
−
* Create duplicated title notes for all of the component titles in the new "Prescription for Chaos" title just like I do for all other duplicated titles in these CDs/ISO images.
+
:::: 2 Title: ''Protection of the Holy Knights''
 +
:::: 3 Title: ''The Seer of Truth''
 +
:::: ...
 +
:::: 6 Title: ''A Film of Blindness''
 +
:::: 7 Series: '''The Stone Spies''' (1)
 +
::::: 1 Title: ''The Well Diggers Son''
 +
::::: ...
 +
::: 2b Series: '''Ghosts in the Snow'''
 +
:::: 2 Title: ''The Lord's Apparent Razor''
 +
:::: 3 Title: ''The Linen Maid's Choice''
 +
:::: 4: Series: '''Threads of Malice''' (1)
 +
::::: 1 Title: ''Rabbits & Wasps''
 +
::::: ...
 +
::::: 4 Series: '''''The Valley''''' (2)
 +
:::::: 1 Title: ''A Tale of Two Boys''
 +
:::::: 2a Series: '''Pieces of the Valley'''
 +
::::::: 2 Title: ''The Secret of Cyprus Farms''
 +
::::::: ...
 +
:::::: 2b Series: '''Valley of the Soul'''
 +
::::::: 2 Title: ''What the Camera Sees''
 +
::::::: ...
  
−
Is this a good approach or is there a better way? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 13:29, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
+
: (1) I can't tell from the diagram how these second series on the blue/red paths relate to the prior series on the same path. If they are not sub-series, then I think the best thing to do would be to make up parent series for the blue path and the red path, and then put the relevant series into them, in order. So something like:
−
: Nope - don't add both of them in the same book - that implies they are BOTH in the same book at the same time - which they are not. You have two options:
 
−
:* Create two separate high level books - one with the one name, one with the other.
 
−
:* Create a single one, use the one name and add a publication note explaining the difference in naming.
 
−
: I'd go with the first option if I were you (different contents == different books) but... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:48, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: So if I understand correctly, create two new stand-alone collection titles with names like "Rx for Chaos (Baen CD-ROM Library)" and "Prescription for Chaos (Baen CD-ROM Library)"? Then add notes and import content titles as required and include both of the new titles in the new CD-ROM omnibus? Wouldn't both of the new titles also be variants of the original [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?926034 Rx for Chaos] title? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 16:48, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: Nope. Create two collections - yes (just as titles unless they were published that way - so nothing to import). But also do two separate omnibus publications - one for the formats that use Rx and one for the ones that use Prescription. No omnibus should have both collections included at the same time UNLESS both are really included. If I am reading the contents list of a book, I should not need to read a note to understand that there is a fake title in there that may not be in my copy and that even if the omnibus record in ISFDB contains 2 collections, I am getting just 1 in my book. :)
 
−
::: Or to say it a different way - build the omnibus with ONE of the titles and in the notes list the formats this publication is for. For the ones you do not know, chose where to list them and note that it is unclear if they are not actually part of the other publication (and link to it when you have both). When you are done, clone it for the second version. In that one remove the collection and replace it with the other collection title and adjust the note for the formats. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:06, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::: Both titles ARE actually included in this one ISO image omnibus. There's literally only one source file containing all these items. This omnibus is a monster. There are 68 titles included in it including 4 other omnibuses. (The value in the content field will likely be 38N+10A+14C+4O+2S.) The same two titles split by file format situation also exists for the excerpt of "1635: The Eastern Front" included in it as well. Plus I may well find more cases like this as I go through each of the included titles. (And someone, somewhere has the actual CD-ROM the ISO image was created from as well so the decision for this will someday be repeated when that publication is added.) Is making clones actually the best thing to do? I really think this is just one very complex publication. :) [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 18:10, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::: Let's make sure we are talking about the same thing. If I download/get/open the ".htm" format of the ISO, do I get TWO separate collections or just the one called "Prescription for Chaos"? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:36, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:::::: The file with the .htm suffix only contains the one collection called "Prescription for Chaos" on its title page. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 22:07, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::::::: OK. If you add the two collections to the Contents, the book will look as if BOTH are available at the same time in the same contents page. Which is never true. Which means that they should never appear in the same Contents/Regular Titles list inside of a book. So we can resolve that in two ways: have two separate records splitting the formats and using the notes to explain why we have two of them OR have a single record with ONE of the collection titles and keep the second title for the collection in the notes only (listing the formats for which it is different). Considering that all formats are in a single ISO, we may be better off with just a note.
 
−
::::::: The problem here is that you essentially have multiple books in the same container (the ISO is not really an omnubus of all those collections and novels and so on - it is an omnibus of the different formats which are the complete omnibuses themselves; the ISO is an external wrapper for that). Because we cannot have omni inside of an omni, we record them all as if they are a single one. Yes - the DB is not really built for that and frankly, I don't think it should be. Use the notes to explain the situation and we are all set. Add an extra note inside of the collection title notes explaining the same. That should be more than enough. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:22, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== The Dread Machine ==
+
:: Series: '''Dubric Multi-Timeline'''
 +
::: 1 Title: ''Weight of the Castellan's Curse''
 +
::: 2a Series: '''''Blue Path''''' (but with a better name)
 +
:::: 1 Series: '''Winter of Ghosts'''
 +
::::: <titles 2 - 6>
 +
:::: 2 Series: '''The Stone Spies'''
 +
::::: <titles 1 - 3>
 +
::: 2b Series: '''''Red Path''''' (but with a better name)
 +
:::: 1 Series '''Ghosts in the Snow'''
 +
::::: <titles 2 - 3>
 +
:::: 2 Series: '''Thread of Malice'''
 +
::::: <titles 1 - 3>
 +
:::: 3 Series: '''''The Valley''''' (2)
 +
::::: 1 Title: ''A Tale of Two Boys''
 +
::::: 2a Series: '''Pieces of the Valley'''
 +
:::::: <titles 2 - 4>
 +
::::: 2b Series: '''Valley of the Soul'''
 +
:::::: <titles 2 - 3>
  
−
Before I do anymore work on [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?61447 The Dread Machine] I have to know something, why are the contents of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?808005 this issue] completely different than [https://www.thedreadmachine.com/issue-1/ this issue] on the publisher’s website.  I have no doubt the contents were copied by the original poster correctly, but this goes beyond a simple mistake.  So … ? [[User:MLB|MLB]] 21:18, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
+
: (2) Here you would make up a name/series to hold that first title plus the sub-series.  In my first example, the number on that made-up series is a proxy for that first title's position in the ongoing series, while the number on the title shows us it's the first at the branch point.
−
: Because instead of adding the issues, someone had been working from [https://www.thedreadmachine.com/all-content/ The All Contents] page and just adding the stories - or so it looks. That's not a record for Issue 1.1 - that's just the stories that were on the site at the time they were added here. Go to the last few pages of All Contents and you will see the stories we have in the order we have them. The fact that without the issues this webzine is not really eligible to be in the DB under the current rules or that this is not how we add magazines (webzines or not) was kinda ignored by an impressive number of moderators. Ignore this record for now - I will sort it out later this week and see if it is salvageable and add the 3 issues that are actually eligible if you want. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 21:32, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: Oh dear: there is also [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?818258 the 2021] version. Let me try to untangle what we do have first, then we will add what is missing. Thanks for finding this one. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 21:39, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: And there is another webzine in a similar shape: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?818259 Diabolical Plots - 2020]. Let me see if there will be others because I am starting to have a very bad feeling. Thanks for finding this mess - it needs solving! :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 21:49, 3 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: Well, I ain't touching it until all the problems are worked out.  This is why I list two versions of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2839158 Beneath Ceaseless Skies], the Kindle version and the web version.  As I've been instructed to. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 00:43, 4 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Publication tag mismatch error ==
+
: I hope that helps a little.  Others may have some better ideas for you.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 12:52, 26 June 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Created a small problem when uploading a cover. I attempted to use the automated upload and I hadn't logged into the wiki. After logging in, and uploading [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Image:2010-08-Birth_of_a_Planet_by_Bruce_Boston.jpg this picture], There was no tag (at that time). Instead of grabbing a blank template, I let the auto upload generate a tag and I slapped on the uploaded picture. That caused [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5141944 this warning]. How do I correct the error? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 12:59, 4 November 2021 (EDT)
+
== Illustrator name misspelled ==
−
: If you really want to, you need to re-upload the file with the "Upload cover" on the publication page and it will show up in the correct place and we can delete this one. Or you can leave it where it is and ignore the warning. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:22, 4 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
:: Since everything is correct except the expected location, I'll just leave it. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 13:32, 4 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Canonical name correction ==
+
The [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?267003 author record] for illustrator Emanuel Schongut has his last name misspelled as "Shongut". Could a moderator please correct the spelling to the correct "Schongut"? I noticed this while doing a pub update for [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?39329 The Exile of Ellendon]. The Flickr link in the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?564089 The Shepherd Is My Lord] record confirms this spelling as well. Thanks! [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 22:27, 20 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
:In the future, you can change these by editing the cover art title page and correcting the spelling. I've done these two. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:33, 21 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
::Thank you. I had the impression that author name changes required mod powers. Now I know. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 17:37, 21 June 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::Changing the name on an author record requires a moderator. Changing the name of an author on a title record or publication record can be done by anyone. In this case, there was already a correct entry for {{A|Emanuel Schongut}}. The two wrong titles just needed to be edited to change them to the correct spelling. The only time an author record is changed is if 1) all titles under that author record need to be changed and 2) there isn't already a correct entry for the author. That is not the typical case. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 18:37, 21 June 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Hi.
+
== Varianting/organizing translated collections of The Murderbot Diaries series ==
  
−
I just noticed that the author of "Silver Door Diner" (found in Fiyah, Autumn 2020Publication Record # 866330) is listed as "Bishop Garriso". This is the only publication listed for "Bishop Garriso".  
+
Hi! I want to revive [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Help_desk#Varianting_split_Japanese_Murderbot_Diaries_back_to_the_English_titles this discussion about organizing collections of the Murderbot Diaries], because it's gotten more complicated since then. Please let me know if I should've just replied to the original section instead of creating a new thread like this. Anyway, [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?44835 The Murderbot Diaries series] currently has eight "main" titles in it: five novellas (1, 2, 3, 4, 6); two short stories (0, 4.1); and one novel (5). Because they're short fiction, international publishers translating the series often choose to publish the novellas and short stories collected together in various combinations. [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2847037 This blank title has collections containing 1-2] but that's it. It would be helpful to organize the collections together somehow by content so the series page isn't so confusingly cluttered. The current recommendation on the thread is to variant the novella/short story collections to [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2764245 this English collection with 1-4] (Title Record 2764245). That's not going to work forever as the series adds new novellas/short stories that are published in new collection combinations. Unless the plan is to make Title 2764245 the grab-all title for "everything in the Murderbot Diaries except for the full novels." Examples: the most expansive English collection under 2764245 right now is [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?829116 829116] (1-4, 4.1). There have been translated collections that go beyond 829116, like [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?897039 897039] (0-4, 4.1) and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?891486 891486] (0, 4.1, 6). If we variant those collections to 2764245, when Tor/Subterranean inevitably publish future new collection(s) containing 0 & 6+ of the ongoing series, we're going to have to move the variants to the new collection, or make the new collection a variant of 2764245, or give up and unvariant everything, etc. It feels like a ship of Theseus problem in terms of collection contents. [[User:Morebooks|Morebooks]] 14:58, 25 June 2022 (EDT)
  
−
The correct spelling of the author's name is "Bishop Garrison". I have confirmed this at Fiyah magazine and a number of other places. See https://www.fiyahlitmag.com/issues/issue-16-joy/
+
:The original discussion got moved to [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Help_desk/archives/archive_35#Varianting_split_Japanese_Murderbot_Diaries_back_to_the_English_titles here].
  
−
"Silver Door Diner" is the only work listed by "Bishop Garriso", and "Bishop Garrison" is not yet listed as an author.
+
:The practice of making the pieces of a multi-part publication variants of the complete title is used for novels (I suppose it could be applied to other single works of shorter length) that are re-published as "split" publications in multiple volumes.  It is somewhat akin to making serial installments variants of a single "complete novel" title.  As far as I know, we do not apply that treatment to any sort of publication of collected works ("container" types: ANTHOLOGY, COLLECTION, OMNIBUS).  The sort of cross-product examples you provide illustrate why: Any sort of compilation is not an atomic entity, but rather is a composite of other entities, and another compiler may choose to make another compilation using an orthogonal set of entities.  I suppose an exception might be if the partial compilations were explicitly assembled/packaged as subsets of some complete compilation, with the content of those subsets combining to be the complete compilation.  What you have here is not that case, however. We also do abuse anthology/collection variants a bit, where we make re-issues with slightly different contents (e.g., a story or two added or removed) variants of the original.  It's usually done to try to indicate it's an alteration of the original compilation, as opposed to a newly-assembled compilation. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 08:48, 1 July 2022 (EDT)
  
−
I am sure that the canonical name needs to be corrected, as this is a typo and not a variant that I have seen anywhere for this story or this author.
+
:Others will probably not like this idea (to put it mildly), but one thought I have is that OMNIBUS might work a little better here than COLLECTION.  The benefit would be that each OMNIBUS record could indicate which pieces of the series it includes.  Technically, an OMNIBUS should always contain at least one novel-length work previously published separately.  Using it here would be a small abuse, since although the works were published as standalone, most of them are shortfiction and you will have compilations that do not include the novel-length ones. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 08:48, 1 July 2022 (EDT)
 +
:: There are a lot of series like that - especially amongst the juvenile series but lately with novellas for adults as well. Awhile back we discussed allowing collections and anthologies to have the Contents field allowed to accommodate these cases (where we cannot use omnibus because there are only shorter forms). It did not get much support but that’s exactly where that would have come useful. If we allow this one to be omnibus, all the rest can be as well - and that opens the floodgates. If that’s what everyone wants, sure, let’s change the rules. But I am against breaking the rules for just one series  - DB inconsistencies make the DB search harder to use as you will never know what to look for (and in which section on an author page). :)  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 00:47, 4 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Please advise me on how this can be dealt with. I have not yet figured that out.
+
::: I would stick to using the dummy title in order to tie together the non-English publications, even if there doesn't exist an English original. That would mean there would have to be created a new dummy English title to collect, say, the first three novellas, and for any other combination that non-English publishers will publish - that way of working doesn't seem to be against the rules as far as I can tell (after all, it says 'only published as'). Yes, that would result in several collection titles, but that seems to be preferrable than trying to link all combinations to a single top-level English collection. To clean up the clutter, I suggest to create a title subseries like 'Murderbot Collections' or some such. Regards, [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 08:58, 4 August 2022 (EDT)
 +
::: AND for this situation it would be REALLY GOOD (TM) if we could enter Content in the title record - to discriminate, we could retitle to 'The Murderbot Diaries (1,2)' or something similar... [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 09:05, 4 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Thanks.
+
== The National Pastime: The Future According to Baseball ==
−
[[User:Dave888|Dave888]] 16:25, 5 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
: Posting a link to the author page you are talking about is very helpful. :) [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?334795 Here]. Fixed. Sometimes typos like that happen - a missing last letter is an easy mistake to do when adding a lot of contents.
 
−
: As there was no information to be lost on the author page and it was indeed a typo in our DB and not in the magazine, you could have done that in two ways:
 
−
:* Rename the author directly - a moderator action, you ask for it on the Moderator portal. I just fixed based on the request here.
 
−
:* Just change it in the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2940234 title] record. This is a bad option if the author page already has data (web sites, images and so on) as they will be lost and you will need to add them again to the new name. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:45, 5 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::Thanks. Yes, I meant to include a link to the author page. My bad. And thanks for the advice about the Moderator portal. Yeah, I don't like Option 2 - that sounds like it would be more problematic. Best wishes.[[User:Dave888|Dave888]] 18:00, 5 November 2021 (EDT)
 
−
::: In this case it would not have made any difference which way you go - the author did not even have a language set. But when changing author names, publishers and pub series from inside of titles/publications, this needs to be kept in mind - when the last reference is changed, they are deleted automatically and all data attached on them is lost. Series names as well to some extent but there we need to delete the old one manually so we can rescue the information before that. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:11, 5 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== It Came from the Multiplex ==
+
● I recently added [https://www.amazon.com/National-Pastime-Future-According-Baseball-ebook/dp/B09BZBGLM3/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1AGLGUW25L9DQ&keywords=The+National+Pastime%3A+The+Future+According+to+Baseball&qid=1657349765&s=digital-text&sprefix=the+national+pastime+the+future+according+to+baseball%2Cdigital-text%2C184&sr=1-1 The National Pastime: The Future According to Baseball] to the books reviewed by Peter Heck in the July/August issue of [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?905329 Asimov’s].  Should I list this publication on this site as a periodical, as an anthology, or should I just list the review as an essay, and not put this issue on the site at all? [[User:MLB|MLB]] 03:29, 9 July 2022 (EDT)
 +
: The latter. A book being reviewed in one of our magazines does not make it eligible to be added to the DB if it is not genre on its own. So you add the review in the magazine as an essay and not as a review. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:25, 4 August 2022 (EDT)
  
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I corrected the contents of the e-version of <i>It Came from the Multiplex</i> from my copy.  However, it would be easier to rebuild from scratch the trade paperback of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?822809 It Came from the Multiplex], so should I just delete the paperback version, or just delete the paperback's contents, then import the contents from the e-version? [[User:MLB|MLB]] 00:07, 6 November 2021 (EDT)
+
== Consolidate or create? ==
−
: Use Remote Titles to remove the contents (with a moderator note explaining what you are doing) and then import from the ebook. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 04:45, 6 November 2021 (EDT)
 
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::Importing contents does not import titles that are already present in the target publication, so you won't end up with duplicates.  However, if you want to pick up the page numbering for everything from the source publication, deleting all the contents first with the note that Annie suggests is a good way to go.  --Ron ~ [[User:Rtrace|Rtrace]]<sup>[[User talk:Rtrace|Talk]]</sup> 07:54, 6 November 2021 (EDT)
 
  
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== Format question ==
+
I was hoping to verify an Ace edition of [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2493 This Immortal] by Roger Zelazny. There are two matches, based on ISBN and price. My copy has no date and a printer's key of simply "0". [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?384789 One edition] is dated 1982-11-00 and the notes have ''Stated "Tenth Ace printing: November 1982" ''. The [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?51080 other edition] is dated 1982-03 with no additional notes. The only primary verifier involved is no longer active. All edits are 10+ years old. Ace was not in a habit of re-using ISBNs, but it did happen. The [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?326145 previous edition] (by ISBN) has the same publisher key of "0", but states ''"This Ace printing: October 1981"''. The [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?299251 next earlier] (by ISBN) notes ''"This Ace printing: September 1980" Eighth printing by number line 8 0 9 but should only be the seventh by catalog # progression''.  The [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?269456 subsequent edition] (by ISBN) simply notes 11th edition. Should I a) choose the earlier 1982-03-00 edition and add my notes or b) create another entry (undated) and note it as a variation of the 10th edition? ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 14:23, 9 July 2022 (EDT)
  
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European description of a 2021 poetry collection "A5 booklet, printed on high quality paper, in colour 40 pages." Just confirming that we treat this as a tp. Thanks [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 12:05, 6 November 2021 (EDT)
+
== Capitol Cat & Watch Dog Unite Lady Freedoms ==
  
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:Well, we do have the A5 format, especially introduced for European needs. If it's saddle-stapled, it'd not be filed as a tp, I think. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 12:34, 6 November 2021 (EDT)
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● I just added [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?906177 Capitol Cat & Watch Dog Unite Lady Freedoms] to the databank, but, I don’t know if it is a chapterbook, or a picture book.  Does anybody know before I add the rest, there are four of them, of them. Oh, and this is a different Janice Law than the mystery author. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 03:02, 14 July 2022 (EDT)
  
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:: I thought A5 was for magazines. Here is a link to the publisher's page, note Jane Yolen's statement. [https://www.shorelineofinfinity.com/product/the-last-robot/ The Last Robot]. Thoughts? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 12:57, 6 November 2021 (EDT)
+
== "Story by" author credits ==
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::: Ph if stapled - that’s what the pamphlet format is. Tp otherwise. And yes - A5 is for magazines despite some people deciding to use them elsewhere against the written rules. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 02:13, 7 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
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::::Maybe we can get a feature that prevents the wrong formats with the wrong types? Or at least flags them with yellow and puts them on a cleanup report? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:05, 8 November 2021 (EST)
+
The tp and ebook of [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3055729 Alien: Inferno's Fall] were released yesterday, and I've just checked the Amazon preview to see if I can tidy up the title note w.r.t. author(s).
  
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== The Books & Braun Dossier ==
+
The title page of the ebook states "A novel by Philippa Ballantine / Story by Philippa Ballantine and Clara Carija".  As such, I suspect this title and pubs should stay with Ballantine as the sole author entry (but with the notes updated appropriately) but I don't see this sort of thing explicitly referenced in [[Template:PublicationFields:Author]].  That page does mention cases like "Author A with Author B", saying that both should be credited, but I don't think that covers this particular case where story credits are separate from authorship.
  
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There are a couple of problems related to this title.
+
(I imagine there are similar issues for novelizations that have a "Based on a screenplay by ..." credit?)
−
*The TP edition [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?694889 here] and title [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2474001 here] (plus variants) are recorded as a Collection. I think it should be an Anthology since (using the ebook published about a month earlier) some of the component stories are attributed to Pip Ballantine alone, some to Tee Morris alone, and some to both in collaboration. Can I just submit changes for the title and pub records to switch them from Collection to Anthology or does this need to be done by a moderator?
 
  
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*Several of the component titles are shown in the ebook to be authored just by Pip Ballantine or just by Tee Morris but the same titles are already in the DB with the author shown as by both Pip Ballantine and Tee Morris. I'm confident these are the same titles because the blurb on the back cover of the TP edition states "First published in The Tales from the Archives and Ministry Protocol, these stories are now collected for the first time in one volume." Since I'll be adding them to the ebook pub, do I just enter them as new regular titles with just the single author and then make those new title records variants of the multi-author title?
+
Thoughts? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 13:38, 27 July 2022 (EDT)
  
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Thanks. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 13:09, 16 November 2021 (EST)
+
:I would treat it the same way we treat novelizations and book adaptations of other material. E.g., we credit the adaptation of the original Star Trek installments exclusively to James Blish, without regard for who came up with the actual stories.  So your idea of sole Ballentine credit + recording Carija's contribution in the notes seems both appropriate and consistent with what we have done before. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 14:32, 27 July 2022 (EDT)
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: That still makes it a collection by the two authors - you can have 2 authors collection and with collaborators like that, such collections happen often. :) Anyone can change the type but in this case, the type is correct.
 
−
: Correct. Record the stories as shown in the book. Then we will variant if needed. Again - not uncommon :) The only thing to keep in mind when you do the variants is that the title with both authors on it should be the parent so the story shows up on both authors' pages (we won't show it based on a variant only. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:19, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
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::Thanks for clarifying. I've submitted the ebook pub as a collection now that I know which type is correct. I'll create the variants as you specified once it's approved. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 15:43, 16 November 2021 (EST)
+
: (after edit conflict) Novelizations frequently mention the authors/creators of the novelized work. When they do, the wording that they use is typically "Based on a story by X and Y" or simply "Story by X and Y". Sometimes it's more involved, e.g. the cover of the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?52046 1990 Avon edition of Piers Anthony's novelization of the movie ''Total Recall''] says "Based on a Screenplay by Ronald Shusett & Dan O'Bannon and Gary Goldman" and then "Screen Story by Ronald Shusett & Dan O'Bannon and Jon Povill". On the other hand, the [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?311887 William Morrow edition] doesn't mention these people on the cover, but the title page says "Inspired by the works of Philip K. Dick and Ronald Shusett, Dan O'Bannon, Steven Pressfield" -- note that the credited people are different.
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::: If my understanding turns out to be incorrect, we will convert all of them in bulk :) Approved so you can variant -- keep in mind what I said above about the parents (and that may mean date adjustment in the parent). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:53, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
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:::: And it took all of 3 minutes for that to happen. [[Template:PublicationFields:PubType]] says:
 
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::::* ANTHOLOGY.  A publication containing fiction by more than one author, not written in collaboration, should be typed as an ANTHOLOGY.  For example, "Late Knight Edition" contains stories by both Damon Knight and Kate Wilhelm, individually; this is an anthology, not a collection.  If a book of Conan stories contains stories which are all partly or wholly by Robert E. Howard, it is a collection; '''if one or more of the stories''' is by Lin Carter or L. Sprague de Camp, not in collaboration with Howard, then the book is an anthology.
 
−
:::: So yep - anthology. I will change them. Sorry about that. I was looking at the collections definitions and missed to look at the anthology one. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:04, 16 November 2021 (EST)
 
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::::: So now I have a problem with the anthology records. I think the new title [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2947104 The Books and Braun Dossier] should be the canonical title since it's older than the existing canonical title [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2474001 The Books & Braun Dossier] by over a month. However, the old has a variant [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2473910 here] which only differs by using Philippa Ballantine instead of Pip Ballantine as an author. If I remember correctly, a variant can't have a variant, right? For that matter, I'm not even sure why the existing canonical record exists since the title "The Books & Braun Dossier" was only published as by Pip Ballantine, never by Philippa Ballantine. Is it so the title will show under the canonical author's name? Please help me unravel this! [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 08:18, 17 November 2021 (EST)
 
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:::::: Yep, it needs to exist so that the book is visible on the canonical author's page. :) Even if the book is never published under the canonical name of the authors, if you want it to appear on the Author page of the said author, you need a parent to bring it there. That's why you need a Philippa Ballantine parent for every book she publishes under another name. So back to our set of titles here: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2947104 this] cannot be the parent because it has the wrong author :) So what you do in this cases is:
 
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::::::* Update the existing parent to have the proper first date and whatever you want to be the canonical name. See what I did [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5152928 here].
 
−
::::::* Put the new title under it the usual way.
 
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:::::: Problem solved. Now only one thing remains: all the stories [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?151403 here] need parents so they show on the Philippa Ballantine page. Let me know if you have any questions! :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:30, 17 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::::::So for these, do a make variant and use Option 2, changing the author name to Philippa Ballantine, correct? Which get added to the "Books & Braun" series: the variant, the new parent, or both? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 16:15, 17 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::::::: Yes on how you do the variant UNLESS there is already a title for that on Philippa Ballantine's page for the story - then you use that and option 1.
 
−
:::::::: Variants cannot be part of a series - the inherit it visually but their records are not part of the series officially :) So it will always be the parent. However, there are two ways to do it here:
 
−
::::::::* Set it on the variant before it is connected, make sure it is approved before the "Make Variant" and then do the parent creation: the system will move it to the parent for you.
 
−
::::::::* Make the parents, then add the series to them when they are approved. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:20, 17 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
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== «Commentaire pour servir à la construction pratique de la Machine à explorer le Temps» ==
+
: Sometimes we record this information in Notes, but we don't credit them in the "Author" field. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:40, 27 July 2022 (EDT)
  
−
The short story "[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?98117 How to Construct a Time Machine]" by [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?7185 Alfred Jarry] first appeared as «Commentaire pour servir à la construction pratique de la Machine à explorer le Temps» in ''Mercure de France'', février 1899 and can be found [https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044105315212&view=1up&seq=391&skin=2021 here, on HathiTrust]. Since I don't speak French, I don't trust myself to enter this correctly. Would someone who speaks French please do so? [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 13:39, 18 November 2021 (EST)
+
:: Thanks both; I've updated the title and pub notes accordingly. I was going to update the help page I linked to earlier in this item as well, but it seems to be (mostly) composed of template strings, which I've not used before, so I've left as-is. {{unsigned|ErsatzCulture|15:15 27 July 2022}}
−
:That shows <s>Albert Fleury</s> Dr Faustroll as the author (see the table of contents on p.862). Is that another name for Jarry? I know he wrote ''Gestes et opinions du docteur Faustroll, pataphysicien'' in which Dr Faustroll is a character, but that's all I know. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:05, 18 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:: Great catch! It appears so; the Bibliothèque nationale de France [https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb11908634r.public lists "Faustroll, Docteur (1873-1907) ''pseudonyme''"] in their authority record. [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 22:09, 19 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::Okay, this has been updated. See [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2950563 here]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:33, 23 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Setting up a separate Talk page for PV change notifications ==
+
:::Templates are just text/code inserted into the pages embedding the template.  A good spot to add it might be in the bullet about "with other writers" [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Template:AllFields:WithOtherWriters here]. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 15:15, 28 July 2022 (EDT)
  
−
I've seen some Talk pages where the user has setup a separate page for PV change notifications plus adding a banner section on their main talk page pointing out their PV change notification preferences. How do you setup a separate page so it can be linked to from your main Talk page? I think I can borrow the banner section coding from other users and adapt it (though I have only rudimentary HTML skills) but how to set up the target page eludes me. TIA [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 13:08, 21 November 2021 (EST)
+
== Artist records for Heffernan/David Heffernan -- same individual? ==
−
: Just open the page as if it exists already and it will allow you to create it. If you would like me to, I can create it for you (just let me know how you want it to be called after your username)? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:14, 21 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:: Example: If you want it to be called "PV Notifications", open [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Philfreund/PV_Notifications http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Philfreund/PV_Notifications]. Click on "Edit" either at the top or in the middle of the page and when you save, you have a new page. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:26, 21 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::Thanks for offering. I was able to do it myself and it's ready for use. :) [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 11:20, 22 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Prince Caspian ==
+
It appears that [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?106181 Heffernan] is an alternate record for [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?25927 David Heffernan].  (It appears that he signed his work as "Heffernan" (no first name), so books without an explicit artist credit, such as [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?8901 Dark of the Moon], are credited simply to "Heffernan", while books with a stated artist credit, such as [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?6437 Caught in Crystal] had his first & last name listed.  The block-lettering Heffernan signatures are very consistent between the two artist records; and the cover art for Yngwie Malmsteen's album Trilogy ([https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71-bKDA3YzL._SL1395_.jpg front] [https://albumartexchange.com/covers/536219-trilogy-back back]) has a signature on the front that matches Dark of the Moon even more closely, and has an explicit David Heffernan credit on the back.
  
−
There are a lot of publications for <i>Prince Caspian</i> by C. S. Lewis. I was getting ready to clone to create a pub for the 42nd printing of the Collier/Macmillan paperback first published in 1970 when I noticed that the title page shows "Prince Caspian: The Return to Narnia". I assume I should create a new novel with that title and then make it a variant. I'm just kind of bothered that there several other Collier/Macmillan paperback printings that are PV but simply show "Prince Caspian" as the title. Thoughts? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 11:30, 22 November 2021 (EST)
+
Assuming this is correct, what would be the best way to create some kind of link between the two artist records?
−
: Several of the other publications made note of the sub-title, and many of these have PV's that you could confirm with after you have created the new title and variant'd it back to [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1368 this title]. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 16:36, 23 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:: If you look at the publications, there are a few with the subtitle mixed in the list. Some editors merge the subtitled variety of a title with the non-subtitled and that used to be a lot more prevalent in the past. I tend to keep them separate - if the subtitle is important enough to be recorded, it deserves its own variant. So yes - add your own book, variant it where it needs to go and then go talk to PVs where the subtitle is actually there. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:00, 23 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::I've added the new title and have a submission to make it a variant. However, when I got ready to contact the PVs of the other two pubs that are just different printings, I found that one has no PV and the PV for the other is no longer active. Leave it as a dead end unless someone does a PV at some later date? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 13:07, 24 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::: Pretty much. We can add a dated note about the different printing information (dated so it is clear it is post all verifications) but we are not changing verified books unless we actually KNOW that there is a mistake. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:08, 24 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Dune reader's guides ==
+
Thanks!
  
−
I have a question.  Now that there is another version of <i>Dune</i> coming out, I’ve noticed that there are a number of reader guides out there to these series.  Do <i>Cliff’s Notes</i>, and stuff like that belong on this site? [[User:MLB|MLB]] 01:43, 25 November 2021 (EST)
+
[[User:Joe H.|Joe H.]] 10:35, 28 July 2022 (EDT)
−
: They are not forbidden. Abridgments and non fiction about speculative fiction are always allowed. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:25, 25 November 2021 (EST)
+
:I made {{A|Heffernan}} an alternate name of {{A|David Heffernan}}. Thanks for finding this. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 09:18, 31 July 2022 (EDT)
  
−
== Anthologies with Afterwords by each author ==
+
:: Thank you!  [[User:Joe H.|Joe H.]] 13:50, 3 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
I have found several Andre Norton Anthologies that have an Afterword for each of the stories included. Each Afterword is written by the author of the short fiction work that precedes it. The first one I entered is [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?14492 Four from the Witch World] and only has four stories. Did I do the Afterword titles in an acceptable way? If not, I'll change them if you'll let me know a better way. The anthology publications I'm about to work on have 18 or more titles in each one so if I need to change my method, now is the time. :) [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 15:59, 25 November 2021 (EST)
+
== Math input question ==
−
: They are not wrong/bad as they are but I’d reverse the story and book title on the title line of these afterwords or even skip the title of the book (unless the afterword is specifically written for this book and not just for the story - explaining why the story is in the book for example) - that way a reprint won’t require a new invented title. Plus we add the book name to differentiate and the story title is a differentiator enough (often anyway). See [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?291245 this] for an example - these afterwords are strictly for the stories. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:34, 25 November 2021 (EST)
 
−
::Thanks! I went ahead and removed the book title. One of the other anthologies had been done that way so at least it's consistent for that series of anthologies. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 16:34, 26 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Cover tag question ==
+
(This is really meta for the real question I need to ask)
  
−
I uploaded a couple webzine covers and noticed that a different tag is applied if the source noted is the website vs. scanned by user. The fair use language is applied if it is scanned by user. Does it make a difference which one is used? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 11:26, 28 November 2021 (EST)
+
Are the <math></math> tags for LaTex as produced by the sqrt(n) button in the comment editor suppose to work?
 +
I'm having problems with their use just generating literal output.
  
−
Nevermind, fixed my mistake [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 13:01, 28 November 2021 (EST)
+
--[[User:GlennMcG|Glenn]] 18:36, 30 July 2022 (EDT)
 +
:No, it does not work. The ISFDB uses a really old version of Wikipedia and it also doesn't have all the necessary dependencies installed. I doubt anyone was expected to need the match function. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 09:14, 31 July 2022 (EDT)
  
−
== Simplified titles for excerpts ==
+
== Savage Realms Monthly ==
  
−
Does the convention of removing (not including) the series name in a title apply with excerpts? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 15:41, 30 November 2021 (EST)
+
● Well, I did something wrong.  Why can’t I get [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3062828 the May issue] of Savage Realms Monthly to get into [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2983776 this series]? [[User:MLB|MLB]] 00:30, 31 July 2022 (EDT)
−
: Yep. We also include the excerpts in the series occasionally thus making clear where they belong. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:30, 30 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Andre Norton Sword Series Set ==
+
: Just merge the two titles. Two additional points; Magazines are dated by the cover date, not the date they become available. Always include the ASIN when publications have a '979' ISBN. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 08:08, 31 July 2022 (EDT)
  
−
In 1984, Unicorn Star Press published the Andre Norton Sword Series Set consisting of three trade paperback titles shrink-wrapped with a single front card. It has its own ISBN printed on the card. I believe this should be an omnibus but since the "binding" is shrink-wrap and it consists of three separate trade paperbacks, I wanted to check to see if there's anything else that needs to be done when creating this omnibus that is special other than good notes. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 18:30, 30 November 2021 (EST)
+
== Boxed set format ==
−
: Yep - that’s a boxset (minus box but with cover and ISBN so still the same idea) so it goes in as Omnibus. The format is the format of the books - so tp. And add a note explaining the shrink wrap and all that. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:39, 30 November 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Edgar Allen Poe's Snifter of Terror ==
+
When you're entering a boxed set as an omnibus, what should the format be? --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 13:51, 31 July 2022 (EDT)
 +
: Whatever is the format of the books inside of the boxed set. So a boxes set of 3 mass market paperbacks will be mass market paperback; a boxed set of hardcovers will be hardcover and so on. In case of a mix and match (2 hardcovers, 2 paperbacks for example), use "other" and add a note explaining the situation. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:22, 1 August 2022 (EDT)
 +
::Thanks, Annie! --[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 17:21, 3 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Hi, everyone. I was just wondering if I could add this anthology series of comic books. There are non-graphic stories and poems as well as the graphic stories. But could I add the (very altered) graphic Poe adaptations as well, or should I leave them out? Thanks.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 03:46, 2 December 2021 (EST)
+
== {Now + n, Now - n} title formatting ==
−
: The altered graphic stories are not eligible in any way or form. Graphic contents (manga or comics) are only eligible when by an above treshold author as that essentially overrides everything else. Still - single comics issues are not eligible even by those per our practice (if they are graphic only - which is not the case here).
 
−
: The poems/stories if the are Poe's text exactly most likely are eligible. Single comics issues can be borderline but in this case because there are the text versions, they are in I think (if added - they go in as non-genre magazines with only the text versions added). However, the whole series is collected in [https://www.amazon.com/Edgar-Allan-Poes-Snifter-Terror/dp/0998044237 a paperback] (that's volume 1) and that paperback is also eligible (minus its graphic contents of it. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:57, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::Thanks, Annie. I think I'll add the comic books since I don't have the paperback.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 13:51, 2 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Unverified OCLC ==
+
The title of this story in [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?4394 Beyond the Safe Zone] is given as "{NOW + n, NOW - n}" in the TOC, but on the actual story page it's rendered as (here's where <math> would have been handy):
  
−
Can someone tell me (roughly) how many OCLC external identifiers have been specified on publications that have no primary verifier? Thanks in advance. P.S. Please keep/post the query, there may be some refinements some day. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 14:20, 2 December 2021 (EST)
+
"{" (two lines tall), "NOW + n" (on line 1), "NOW - n" (on line 2, directly below NOW + n), and finally "}" (two lines tall).
  
−
: At this time, we have 145,254 OCLC External IDs. 75,689 of them are for publications without a primary verification (either permanent or transient). The query is as follows:
+
Is this different enough to drive an edit? If so, how should it be formatted. Or just note it (which I'm having troubles coming up with clear short description). --[[User:GlennMcG|Glenn]] 22:50, 31 July 2022 (EDT)
 +
: Just add a note. We do not support html and other scripting in titles and you will need it to show something like that. You can note it exactly as you did here if you prefer.  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:20, 1 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
                select count(i.pub_id)
+
== Two-part Cover term ==
−
                from pubs p, identifiers i, identifier_types it
 
−
                where p.pub_id = i.pub_id
 
−
                and i.identifier_type_id = it.identifier_type_id
 
−
                and it.identifier_type_name = 'OCLC/WorldCat'
 
−
                and not exists
 
−
                (select 1 from primary_verifications pv
 
−
                where pv.pub_id = p.pub_id)
 
  
−
(Drop "and not exists" and everything that follows it to get the first number.) [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:56, 2 December 2021 (EST)
+
Can someone please tell me what is the correct term for a two-part paperback cover where the top cover is about 85-90% the width of a full page and the inner cover is full sized? My Google-fu has failed me. Thanks! [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 07:37, 8 August 2022 (EDT)
−
::Thanks. Pandemic downtime has given me too much time to think up new projects (and no additional time to implement). The reason I asked about the unverified OCLC was to gauge the scope of a project. The OCLC provides a list of libraries purportedly carrying particular publications. I would be willing to provide primary (transient) verification against any copy held in my immediate locale. I expect there are others equally willing. I was just toying around with ideas on how to match the two up for myself or someone in general. Can't actually get into many of these libraries under pandemic conditions, but an interesting thought experiment. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 12:17, 3 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::: Why just the ones with OCLC numbers? If you are hitting the stacks in a library, you may as well just go after everything in the SF section :) A few years ago I was considering doing just that in my local library but then things happened as usual and the plan fizzled out. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:05, 3 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::: Different problem. I did indeed go to all my local libraries verifying Jules Verne books. I thought about it for all SF books but figured a) my hit rate for unverified is likely low and b) my overhead in checking each book (entering, searching, checking copies) on a tiny interface (I no longer hate my phone, but we're not good friends) and then dealing with entering it makes this a particular problem that needs particular solutions. The OCLC situation is one where a book is important enough to enter and verify without seeing a copy. It makes possible a limited list of publications for any given location with particulars to check, with only minor edits likely. A different situation. Even with the many thousands of candidates, the number of ones likely to be addressed from my home town are pretty small. It would also give rise to small helpful projects that avid contributors can do in their neighbourhood that no one else can do (as well as getting them out of their cyber-dens). As I said, many projects, just needed data for the OCLC one. Here's one we can work on together - a local university library has a special Slavic section of somewhat older books. If I get you a list, and you mark which are candidates, WHEN they let me back in I could go collect the data, enter them and verify them with your editorial oversight. I don't know who I can get to do the same for the Icelandic ones though. :-(  ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 16:34, 4 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::::: If anything, it is just a different side of the same problem. Using my library list I can easily add the books based on oclc and other sources and then request them out (thus turning my usecase into yours). Get that list of yeh Slavic ones or point to it and I can vet what we want from it. If you get me that Icelandic list I can see what I can do - not strictly my bailiwick but I can at least find the highly probables and I have someone I can ask for ideas. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:06, 4 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Kris Longknife Print-on-Demand PVs ==
+
: It's a stepback cover, and I don't know if that originated as a publishers' term or a collectors'/booksellers' one. I was only able to find the term stepback online because I dimly recalled it; at first I was recalling it as a gatefold, but I see that that's a cover folded back like a dust-cover flap, used on some upscale trade paperbacks (also a two-part LP cover/sleeve opening like a book). [[User:MOHearn|MOHearn]] 17:09, 10 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
I'm PVing my more recently purchased Kris Longknife books and they're POD. They have a recent manufacture dates (some as recently as a few weeks ago), and are marked <b>Rev 2.0</b> on the copyright page. For example: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?753088].
+
::Thanks! Now that I know the term, I have been able to search out more info about it. It turns out that there is also a variation called a keyhole stepback cover where there is a die-cut/keyhole opening in the outer cover displaying a portion of the inner artwork. Overall, the stepback cover seems to be most heavily used for Romance novels.  Here's a [https://jacquelinediazromance.wpcomstaging.com/stepback-covers-are-back/ link] to an interesting discussion of the history of the stepback cover. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 06:59, 11 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
I could use guidance on how to deal with this issue.
+
== Deleting a bad cover upload ==
  
−
Should I:
+
I messed up and uploaded a cover for the wrong publication. Here is the entry for the [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Image:BKTG03053.jpg bad cover]. How do I delete this incorrect upload? It isn't used anywhere. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 07:50, 8 August 2022 (EDT)
 +
: It's a moderator only function, I deleted it for you. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 09:37, 8 August 2022 (EDT)
 +
:: I guessed that would be the case! Thanks! [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 15:26, 8 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
* Edit the base record, and record my rev and date, vaguely parallel to how SFBC editions are dealt with?
+
== Isaac Asimov's OPUS books. ==
−
* Add a new publication record?
 
−
* Something I haven't thought of?
 
  
−
Thanks. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 18:05, 2 December 2021 (EST)
+
The current entries for Asimov's Opus books ([https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?38033 Opus 100], [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?39451 Opus 200] and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2905552 Opus 300]) all list them as COLLECTIONS. Each book is a set of selections and excerpts from 100 of his books, most of which are non-fiction and, in many cases non-genre. According to the [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Screen:NewPub#Publication_Type HELP entry] for NONFICTION - "A publication that contains both non-fiction and fiction should be typed by that which is predominant." The entry does not say whether this is by number of entries or by pages, but I believe it qualifies under both. I plan to convert these but would like to offer a chance for differing opinions before doing so. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 12:57, 10 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
:POD are difficult because of the varying dates, but I'd say if there's a "Rev 2.0", that's very similar to statements like "Second Edition" or "Second Printing", and it's a clear distinction between printed copies of that and earlier printed copies.  So I suggest you make another record for it, noting the "Rev 2.0".  It is easy to merge them later if we decide having two records is inappropriate. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 09:54, 3 December 2021 (EST)
+
: Sounds like a good plan. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:30, 11 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
== Classifying a collection containing genre and non-genre titles  ==
+
Secondarily, there is one publication [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?854394 Opus: A Selection from the First 200 Books] which is an omnibus of the first two titles. The definition indicates this is correct, whether these be COLLECTIONs or NONFICTIONs. However, the contents include not only the two COLLECTIONs, but also repeats their contents. I believe that this is incorrect and the latter should be removed. Again - any concerns? ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 12:57, 10 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Assuming the following contents:
+
: [[Help:Screen:NewPub]] says:
−
<table><tr><td>non-genre novella</td><td>157pp</td><td>65%</td></tr>
+
:* When recording an omnibus publication, please record all of its contents. If it contains one or more collections, please record both the collection titles and the individual short fiction or essay titles as part of the omnibus's contents.
−
<tr><td>genre novelette</td><td>67pp</td><td>28%</td></tr>
+
: so we should keep the individual stories. Note that this is done for two reasons:
−
<tr><td>genre short story</td><td>16pp</td><td>7%</td></tr></table>
+
:* It lets users looking at a SHORTFICTON work's Title page see the omnibus publications which include the story.
−
Is this a genre publication with one non-genre title or a non-genre publication listing only the two genre titles? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 10:34, 7 December 2021 (EST)
+
:* It lets us capture minor differences between the OMNIBUS pub and the COLLECTION pubs whose contents it reprints, e.g. added/removed ESSAYs.
−
:Is the author of the non-genre work above the threshold? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:14, 7 December 2021 (EST)
+
: [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 14:30, 11 August 2022 (EDT)
−
:: The author of this collection does not generally write within our genre. Just so happens that two of the three works are genre. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 18:01, 7 December 2021 (EST)
+
:: Sorry, failed to look past the TYPE to CONTENTS. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 23:57, 11 August 2022 (EDT)
−
:::I'd list the collection as non-genre and put the non-genre work in the notes. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:34, 8 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::: Yep, I concur. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:43, 8 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::::: Thanks for the help [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 14:52, 8 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== "A Logic Name (sic) Joe" ==
+
== Amaranth, magazine ==
  
−
It hurts my heart to say that, on its first publication, [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?865228 the story] was called (in the voice of its narrator) "A Logic Name Joe". Not "Named"—but "Name".
+
{{P|437475|Amaranth}} was supposed to be the first of a magazine series, but folded after one issue... shouldn't it still be a MAGAZINE, and not an ANTHOLOGY? [[User:Ofearna|Susan O&#39;Fearna]] 00:54, 20 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
[https://archive.org/details/Astounding_v37n01_1946-03_cape1736/page/n138/mode/1up Here, see for yourself.]
+
:If it was an issue of a magazine, then, yes. In a situation like this, if you have a source of information (be it the publication or something else) that documents this was an issue of a magazine, I encourage you to capture that information in the pub or title (or series) notes, just to help avoid future confusion. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 16:45, 24 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Should we account for this in some way?
+
== Battlestations / Battle Stations ==
  
−
Apologies if this is the bibliographic equivalent of [https://winchysteria.tumblr.com/post/168634371438/ossacordis-crockpotcauldron "WE! DO NOT! TALK ABOUT! THE ORANGUTAN!"].
+
{{P|901215|Battlestations}} is how the cover, title and copyright page of my e-book copy has this book... can it be corrected? [[User:Ofearna|Susan O&#39;Fearna]] 02:37, 20 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
And apologies for forgetting to sign this earlier. [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 10:48, 13 December 2021 (EST)
+
:You are the only primary verifier, so if your copy has it as one word and you're verifying that, change it. It looks most likely to be a typo/spell-o vs. another form. If someone ever comes up with a copy having it as two words, that person can make a variant. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 16:41, 24 August 2022 (EDT)
−
:No worries. This is already shown [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45659 here]. The incorrect title is varianted to the correct one. Thanks for watching for errors, though. There's always the possibility of typos like this. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:05, 13 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
:: It appears that this are only variant titles because of the alternate author names, not because of a variant title with only "Name", or am I missing something? Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 13:19, 13 December 2021 (EST)
+
== Info about submitting info for a magazine series. ==
−
:::It's a bit of both, since the typo was in the original that was credited to the pseudonym. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:22, 13 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::: I do not see the title "A Logic ''Name'' Joe" in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?45659 the link you mentioned]. I only see the typical "A Logic ''Named'' Joe". [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 15:17, 14 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::::Weird. It was there before and now it's not. I can't see a record of it being changed, either. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:54, 14 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== The em-dash swamp ==
+
Hello. I am co-editor of a Brazilian magazine that pays homage to pulp magazines ("Histórias Extraordinárias" - [https://www.editoramundo.com.br/he/] ). It publishes previously unreleased short stories in the Science Fiction, Supernatural and Cosmic Horror genres.
  
−
I'm PVing [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?103361] and ran across the story <i>Golden the Ship Was — Oh! Oh! Oh!</i>. The title page for the story doesn't have spaces around the em-dash, which is in conflict with publication entry. Help for 'title' [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Template:PublicationFields:Title] indicates there shouldn't be surrounding spaces. Is this a rathole to avoid, or something I should attempt to submit an edit for?
+
I have some questions that could be obvious for more experienced isfdb editors, but please bear with me :)
  
−
: Has this query been lost, or is the lack of input a hint to let sleeping dogs lie. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 15:11, 14 December 2021 (EST)
+
I want to submit the info about this magazine (5 issues published so far).
 +
Other than the short stories, it contains regular sections as:
  
−
When researching this, I attempted to run an advanced search for titles containing " — ", but the spaces seemed to be discarded from the search query. Is there a way to specify a literal space character? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 01:21, 12 December 2021 (EST)
+
(1) "'''Science Department'''" - essays about real-world scientific matters (actual robots, Mars probes, etc.). Should I include info about this section even if it "not speculative" in essence?
 +
: As it is in a genre magazine, EVERYTHING is eligible. So yes. This is similar to the science articles in Analog for example. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
: Spaces are recognized in advanced search without doing anything more than typing them. If typing [space] [Alt0151] [space] doesn't work, (I get 4176 hits at this time) try a force clear of your cache and run the search again. See if that helps. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 09:00, 12 December 2021 (EST)
+
(2) "'''Interviews'''" - interviews with people whose work may be related to the subject of one of the stories or with the author of one of the stories or someone who's in some way related to speculative fiction. Should I include this info when the interviewed person is not directly involved in speculative fiction? For example, in issue #1 a short story dealt with HAM radio, and the "Interview" section featured an experienced HAM radio user. It seems to me that this interview should not be included, but I could be wrong. Please advise.
 +
: See above :) You can add it just as a note in the notes of the publication but... technically it is eligible. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
:: It's not working for me. Even after clearing the cache I get get 7131 results, which include entries both with and without surrounding spaces. (I've also tried using a different browser).  
+
(3) "'''HE Recommends'''" - Reviews and recommendations about speculative fiction in books, movies or TV series. Should I include the info about this section if they are not about literature (e.g. TV series or movies)? For example, In one issue we had a review about the works of Ted Chiang, in another about the "Severance" TV series. While the Ted Chiang one is a no-brainer, what about the later?
−
::Advanced Search | Titles | Title, contains, ' — ', and | Get Count
+
: Genre Books reviews get added as reviews. Non-book and non-genre books get added as essays. See [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Screen:NewPub the help page] and especially [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Screen:NewPub#Reviews what is a review] (aka books just being mentioned is NOT a review) and [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Template:PublicationInfo:WhatToInclude naming reviews as essays]. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)
−
::(The quotes around the space-emdash-space are just for clarity here, but not entered in the field). --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 15:21, 12 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
::: One of the check boxes in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/mypreferences.cgi User Preferences] is "Keep leading and trailing spaces when searching". Perhaps the two of you have this option set up differently? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:14, 12 December 2021 (EST)
+
I have the cover arts for all issues; is it possible to insert the cover art along with the data submission?
 +
: Not at the start unless it is in one of the places we can link to. Once the publication is approved , there will be a button to allow you to upload the cover to our DB and link it there (always a second step when adding books/magazines). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
:::: That did it. Thanks. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 16:58, 12 December 2021 (EST)
+
Thank you for your help.
 +
--[[User:Pugno|Pugno]] 11:41, 25 August 2022 (EDT)
 +
: Answers inline :) Let me know if any other clarifications are needed. Welcome to ISFDB! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
::::: Sure thing. I have also fixed list indentation in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/mypreferences.cgi User Preferences] to make it clear which preferences are grouped together. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:06, 12 December 2021 (EST)
+
::Thanks for your patience and help! I have one more question: In one case, the magazine index indicates that a short story is at page 20; however, page 20 is a full-page artwork (related to the story) and the text effectively starts at page 21. Should I indicate page 20 for both or 20 and 21 respectively? [[User:Pugno|Pugno]] 17:03, 25 August 2022 (EDT)
 +
::: It will be 20|20.1 for the art and 20|20.2 for the story (so they stay in order). [https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Template:PubContentFields:Page Help page]: "If a magazine presents artwork for a story or essay preceding the piece's title page, and it is apparent that the art accompanies the text, the starting page of the story or essay should be the page number of the artwork which illustrates it. If you're creating content records for both the work and its illustration, they would have the same starting page.". See also the whole sorting section in that same link - it explains the usage of the | I used above. If you want, you can add a note in the publication note explaining where the text actually starts but it is not mandatory.
 +
::: When you start adding the first issue, click on these question marks next to each field - these help pages have a lot of small tips like this one and will help you figure out how to do some things. Magazines are... complicated in the DB so if you need any more assistance, just ask :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:56, 25 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
== Lost entries in Help Desk ==
+
== Stack dump when displaying verifier activity timestamps ==
  
−
I had an question about editing titles with em-dashes in the help desk, but it seems to have disappeared. Was there a restoral from backup?
+
In case you haven't seen these yet...
−
It also had question about advanced searches with leading and trailing space, which was answered. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 20:23, 12 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
: The question was asked and answered on [[ISFDB talk:Help desk]], i.e. the Talk page associated with this page. I have moved it here -- see the section immediately above. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:38, 12 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
:: Thanks. I hadn't really internalized the difference between adding an entry to the help desk vs. one for a users talk page. Somehow the 'New Post' button was invisible. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 21:11, 12 December 2021 (EST)
+
/var/www/cgi-bin/SQLparsing.py in GetLastWiki(user_id=14492L)
 +
3083                        minutes = timestamp[10:12]
 +
3084                        seconds = timestamp[12:14]
 +
3085                        wiki_utc = datetime.strptime('%s-%s-%s %s:%s:%s' % (year, month, day, hours, minutes, seconds), '%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S')
 +
3086                        timestamp = timegm(wiki_utc.timetuple())
 +
3087                        last_wiki = datetime.fromtimestamp(timestamp)
 +
wiki_utc undefined, datetime undefined, year = '2022', month = '08', day = '02', hours = '14', minutes = '19', seconds = '40'
 +
<type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'datetime' is not defined
  
−
== Conversion of chapbook/novella to novel - sanity check/experienced wisdom required ==
+
when showing the verifiers on a publication page. --[[User:GlennMcG|Glenn]] 16:10, 31 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Converting a novel to a chapbook is [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:How_to_convert_a_novel_to_a_chapbook thoroughly documented], but as far as I can tell, the reverse isn't - I guess it's a much less common action?
+
: It was a bug introduced in an earlier patch to support the server upgrade project. It should be fixed now. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:19, 31 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Anyway, I tested doing a chapbook/novella to novel conversion on a local instance of the site/database over the weekend, and it seemed to go OK.  However, when I came to replicate that on the live site, I managed to fall at the first hurdle by not exactly repeating what I tested on my local instance.
+
:: Is there a place I can read about the planned upgrades? --[[User:GlennMcG|Glenn]] 18:45, 31 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Specifically, on my local tests, I did the following 3 steps:
+
::: Al has an overview of what's going on on his User page, [[User:Alvonruff]]. The details can be found over on [[User:Alvonruff/ISFDB_Move]]. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 20:45, 31 August 2022 (EDT)
  
−
# Convert the SHORTFICTION/novella title record to NOVEL
+
==Information for different printings==
−
# Remove the CHAPBOOK title contents record from all the relevant pubs
 
−
# Convert the relevant pubs from CHAPBOOK to NOVEL
 
  
−
Instead what I did for the first step was [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5171651 convert the CHAPBOOK (i.e. not SHORTFICTION record to NOVEL]. This means that when I try to remove one of the contents from one of the pubs, I get a warning box that states:
+
I was looking up Robert Heinlein's ''The Past Through Tomorrow'' (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?32045) and found two listings for the same ISBN (978-0-425-03178-0)- one for the '''seventh''' printing (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?308039) and one for the '''eighth''' printing (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?377711). The bulk of the information is naturally the same. Neither lists a print date.
  
−
    WARNING: Unable to locate the title reference for this publication.
+
My copy, as it turns out, is from the '''sixth''' printing, and lists a print date of "January, 1975". I'd like to add this information to the record, but found it confusing to have two entries for different printings of the same book, so I'm not eager to add a third. I didn't see a way to provide the 6th printing date in a comment on the others, so not sure what to do with this.
−
    Removing titles while in this state is dangerous. Check to make sure the publication type is correct (collection, novel, anthology, etc.). Then come back and remove the title in question.
 
  
−
which is worrying, so I've gone back to my local system (which was refreshed from the weekend's copy of the database, and had my prior test edits undone).  I *think* I have got things to the desired state by doing:
+
Evil Overlord
 +
:We add separate publication records for each printing. As there can be difference between printings, they are treated separately. You can clone one of the existing printings to make record for the sixth. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 13:00, 4 September 2022 (EDT)
  
−
# Update all relevant pubs from CHAPBOOK to NOVEL
+
== Stephen King "The Shining"  Book Club Edition ==
−
# Merge the NOVEL and SHORTFICTION/novella title records.
 
  
−
The latter step does prompt another warning box:
+
Hi, I have a copy of Stephen King's "The Shining" which is a book club edition with the gutter code MP3DD.  According to your posting, Doubleday discontinued the gutter code mid-1987 with CC.  I don't see anywhere in the coding series where this code is identified.  Any idea of when it was used?  Thanks, Danelle
  
−
    WARNING: records 2930366 and 2930367 both appear in the publication ReDawn
+
== Sword of Ice and Other Tales of Valdemar ==
−
    Merging titles causes the title names to be commonized, AND causes that new title to show up in the publications those titles point to. If you merge two
 
−
    titles that appear in the same publication, you will cause that title to show up twice in that pub. This is probably not what you want.
 
−
    .
 
−
    If you are trying to remove a duplicate title from a publication, edit that publication, and click on Remove Titles From This Pub. Then select the title you wish to remove.
 
  
−
Despite, this doing the merge does appear to have had the desired effect - everything is showing as a novel, there are no duplicate contents showing, SQL queries on the local database show what I'd expect.
+
When entering a different printing for Sword of Ice and Other Tales of Valdemar, I noticed that the oldest pub record [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?34065 here] is really for the 7th printing and should have a 0000-00-00 date. Changing it would leave us without a first printing record. Should I clone this pub and add the appropriate notes to make it the true 1997-01-00 first printing pub with the source being Locus1 and then update the existing pub to have the 0000-00-00 date and corrected notes? That would preserve the history of this record. The other choice would be to clone this pub with corrected notes to be the true 7th printing record and then update the original record to have the correct first printing data and notes. Thanks! [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 08:00, 12 September 2022 (EDT)
 +
: The OCLC does not say anything about this being a 7th printing and looking at the history, it was made a 7th printing later. So I'd clean up this record and make it the real first and not bother with a 7th printing - when/if someone can verify, they can add it. We have no source for this 7th printing besides the record unless you are verifying a later one and you want to add it because it must exist after all. You may want to ping the editor who added the note about the 7th ([https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?3578520 here] and see if they have the book and can verify eventually so we have a source...  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 17:33, 12 September 2022 (EDT)
 +
::I'll cleanup the existing record. I don't think I can ping the editor who added the 7th printing note since his last post was in 2017. :) [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] ([[User talk:Philfreund|talk]]) 22:02, 12 September 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Is this (i.e. converting the pubs then merging the titles) a reasonable course of action, or would it maybe be better to revert the CHAPBOOK-to-NOVEL edit, and then follow my original course of action?   Thanks [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 14:36, 13 December 2021 (EST)
+
== Biographies? ==
  
−
: This process is not preferable: all reviews and other links (for example awards) usually are linked to the SHORTFICTION, and by deleting that all of these links are broken. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 13:11, 15 December 2021 (EST)
+
Just wondering about entry of book length biographies of significant authors. Mary Shelly or Poe, for instance. I assume this is includable? Is this considered genre or non-genre? [[User:Gzuckier|gzuckier]] ([[User talk:Gzuckier|talk]]) 00:50, 16 September 2022 (EDT)
  
−
:: Thanks for responding - unfortunately it's still not clear to me what the safest/best course of action is. Is switching the pubs from CHAPBOOK to NOVEL and then merging the NOVEL and SHORTFICTION/novella title records OK?  Naively I'd assume that merge actions should not break anything, but I would prefer it if someone could explicitly reassure me that that is the case. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 14:01, 16 December 2021 (EST)
+
: As per [[ISFDB:Policy]], we include:
 +
:* Published non-fiction works about speculative fiction which can be plausibly linked to published (as defined above) speculative fiction
 +
: so books about speculative fiction authors can be included. It can get fuzzy if the author in question is only marginally related to speculative fiction. For example, a biography of {{A|Robert Conquest}} that concentrated on his work as a historian would be borderline at best even though he wrote and edited a fair amount of SF. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 06:52, 16 September 2022 (EDT)
 +
:: Just to add a note and answer part of the question here: a biography will be considered genre - it is in as a book linked to speculative fiction. Non-genre will be a book from an above the treshold author about science for example. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 15:34, 16 September 2022 (EDT)
  
−
::: In most cases this would not be okay (as explained above). It should be the conversion of the SHORTFICTION to NOVEL; this way the links that are connected to the fiction remain intact (CHAPBOOK is not a fiction title but rather a container title, like COLLECTION or ANTHOLOGY). [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 14:29, 16 December 2021 (EST)
+
On a related point, there doesn't seem to be any way to link the biography to the author, or vice versa. If the title of the bio included the author's name, it could be searched that way, but if it doesn't it would kind of be an orphan; that would seem to be a glitch?
  
−
:::: OK, I'll revert the edit I made and go back and do the steps I originally intended to do.  Thanks. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 16:10, 16 December 2021 (EST)
+
Thanks. [[User:Gzuckier|gzuckier]] ([[User talk:Gzuckier|talk]]) 00:50, 16 September 2022 (EDT)
  
−
== Need misspelled alias corrected ==
+
: As per [[Help:Screen:AuthorData]]:
 +
:* Note - This field is for bibliographic notes about the author. It can be used to document the sources that were used to compile author-specific information. It can also be used to enter brief '''biographical''' data, especially for authors who do not have other biographical pages on the Internet.
 +
: For longer biographical articles, you can use <nowiki>{{BREAK}}</nowiki> -- see [[Help:Using Templates and HTML in Note Fields]].
 +
: We used to create biographical Wiki pages, but they were deprecated a few years ago. There are [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup.cgi#Wiki_Cleanup_(weekly) a dozen cleanup reports] to help move remaining Wiki pages to the database proper. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 06:52, 16 September 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Author alias Larry Schwinger [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?181355 here] is misspelled as Larry Shwinger. Can a mod please correct the spelling to Larry Schwinger? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 11:59, 15 December 2021 (EST)
+
== How to/should I enter a collection with genre and non-genre stories? ==
−
:We need Chavey to chime in on this one since he's verified that publication. If it's misspelled in the book, we need to keep the misspelling. It's already varianted to the correct spelling. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:10, 15 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::I posted a note on his page. I have the book in hand and it's spelled correctly on the copyright page, just not in the DB. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 14:25, 15 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::How is it spelled on the Title page? That's the one we use if we have access to the book. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:32, 15 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::::He's the endpaper map artist and not on the title page. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 14:36, 15 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::::: Larry Schwinger is the artist who did the endpaper maps, he is credited on the title page verso not the tile page. I have a first printing and the name is spelled as Phil is stating. I will be glad to provide a primary verification after I see what the final record looks like. Hope this helps,  [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 14:40, 15 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::::::This has been corrected. Thanks for catching it! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:47, 16 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Awaiting approval for new magazine ==
+
[https://www.amazon.com/Cats-Triumphant-Jody-Lynn-Nye/dp/1952825717 ''Cats Triumphant!''] includes [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?473311 "Well Worth the Money"], which has been getting some interest due to [https://gritsinmisery.tumblr.com/post/616619774659756032/i-have-a-book-that-story-is-in-the-story this Tumblr post about it]. It includes 8 genre stories and 3 non-genre stories.
  
−
Hello,
+
I've got information on [https://web.archive.org/web/20130124151153/http://www.amazon.com/Cats-Triumphant-ebook/dp/B00AJIWOU2 the 2012 Kindle ebook] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20170323143138/http://brittonknowles.com/ProductInformation/ProductID/159 generic ebook], plus the 2022 reprints (including, at last, [https://www.amazon.com/Cats-Triumphant-Jody-Lynn-Nye/dp/1952825717 a print edition] that will have page numbers).
  
−
On 12/6/21 I submitted a new magazine, "Vastarien: A Literary Journal vol. 4, issue 2," for verification. It has remained under pending edits since then. I have watched the backlog go up&down from 100+ to 400+ several times. The question is, has this pending edit gone astray, or is someone holding it while they are simply too busy with life as Christmas/Covid looms?
+
# Should I enter this collection even though it includes non-genre stories?
 +
# Should I enter the non-genre stories or pretend they don't exist?
 +
# Is it okay to enter the list of stories in the 2012 ebook editions based on the ToC for the 2022 reprints? (I originally said 'omitting the new introduction by Carole Nelson Douglas', but [https://www.baen.com/Chapters/1230000311335/1230000311335.htm it appears she wrote one for the 2012 version as well.])
  
−
I ask, because I have never waited more than 5 days for this process to play out before, and we're into the 9th day.
+
Thanks! [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] ([[User talk:Sylvar|talk]]) 10:15, 20 September 2022 (EDT)
 +
:# Yes - A predominately genre publication by a genre author.
 +
:# Yes - All titles are included. After creation, set the non-genre flag for the three non-genre stories.
 +
:# Yes - Note that your source is the 2022 publication and state that the 2012 order could differ. Edit: The two introductions look identical. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 11:43, 20 September 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Thanks.
+
Thanks again! [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] ([[User talk:Sylvar|talk]]) 12:23, 20 September 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Distanceswimmer <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Distanceswimmer|Distanceswimmer]] ([[User talk:Distanceswimmer|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Distanceswimmer|contribs]]) .</small> 15:02, 15 December 2021
+
Oh no... I forgot to include the introductions on my first two. Oh well, I'll add those in an edit after they're created. [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] ([[User talk:Sylvar|talk]]) 12:38, 20 September 2022 (EDT)
  
−
:I see one on the 9th, but nothing before that. All of the moderators are volunteers, and (especially during the holiday season and summer) sometimes it takes a while to get to everything. We all have real life things that get in the way of participation here. A few things:
+
== Cover art links to ISFDB site -- include https in URL? ==
−
:#I notice that you added it to both a title series and a publication series with the same title. Generally, magazines are included in a title series, but not in any publication series. I've removed the publication series.
 
−
:#The web page for publications is for pages specifically about that publication or issue. The generic URL should go on the title series page. I've done this for you.
 
−
:#There's no need to include an Amazon web page if the item has an ISBN or an ASIN. We automatically link those. I've removed this URL.
 
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:#When including the artist, it's always good to include in the publication note where that information was obtained. Something like "Cover artist per copyright page" or "Cover artist per back cover and copyright page", for example.
 
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:#When you post to a discussion page or a user's talk page, you can sign your posts by using four tildes at the end, like this: '''<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>'''
 
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:Please let us know if you have any other questions. Thanks for contributing to the site! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:45, 16 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Edgar Allen Poe's Snifter of Death, #1 ==
+
When I 'Upload new cover scan', the links available on the page now include the https protocol marker. Are the references from the publication supposed to be changed to match? Will there be some batched fixup applied someday? --[[User:GlennMcG|Glenn]] ([[User talk:GlennMcG|talk]]) 16:04, 24 September 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Hi. I'm now the proud owner of a physical copy of this comic. It measures 10" x 6.75". What should I list as the format? Pulp?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 18:22, 18 December 2021 (EST)
+
: ISFDB-hosted URLs can be entered using either "http" or "https". When our software builds Web pages to display, it checks whether the site is currently running HTTP or HTTPS. It then adjusts the displayed images automatically. This setup makes it easy to go back and forth between HTTP and HTTPS, e.g. when setting up a test version of the ISFDB database [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB_Downloads#Installation_and_Setup on your home computer]. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 17:48, 24 September 2022 (EDT)
−
:How many pages? What kind of binding does it have? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 11:25, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
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::Hi, Nihonjoe. Thanks for responding. It has 32 pages and it's saddle-stapled.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 14:32, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
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:::Probably pulp, then. That's the closest we have. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:16, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Adding Infinite Matrix stories? ==
+
In addition, what should one do when the links "Cover art supplied by ISFDB on this Web page" and "Upload new cover scan" don't match? E.g. [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?9975  Invader on My Back / Destination: Saturn] --[[User:GlennMcG|Glenn]] ([[User talk:GlennMcG|talk]]) 17:08, 24 September 2022 (EDT)
  
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I would like to add some stories that were published in ''[http://www.infinitematrix.net/archive/archive.html Infinite Matrix]'', especially the [http://www.infinitematrix.net/stories/shortshorts/riohondo/index.html Rio Hondo stories]. But given the different publication dates, I’m not sure how best to do that. Should I “Add a new magazine” for each story? --[[User:Elysdir|Elysdir]] 14:27, 20 December 2021 (EST)
+
== Would like to create an author ==
  
−
:Yes, that it what you would have to do.  You would add the issue in which the story appeared.  A few issues have been entered already.  See [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?55882 here]. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 16:36, 21 December 2021 (EST)
+
I have a variant of an author not yet created<br>
 +
I believe [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?351742 F. G. B.] should be a variant of an author named Frans G. Bengtsson, but I am not sure I can create that author by myself. At least, I have not found a way yet. --[[User:Spacecow|Spacecow]] ([[User talk:Spacecow|talk]]) 19:04, 24 September 2022 (EDT)
  
−
== Merging reprinted reviews ==
+
: [[Help:How to enter an author into the database]] discusses related issues, but not this particular scenario. To do what you are trying to so, pull up [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?3084608 the title in question], then click "Make This Title a Variant" in the navigation bar on the left. Scroll down to "Option 2". Change "F. G. B." to "Frans G. Bengtsson" in "Author 1", then click "Create New Parent Title". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 21:52, 24 September 2022 (EDT)
 +
:: Done! Thank you. Appreciate the help! --[[User:Spacecow|Spacecow]] ([[User talk:Spacecow|talk]]) 18:07, 25 September 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Do I have to change all the dates of the reprints to when they were originally published?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 14:55, 20 December 2021 (EST)
+
== Star Trek series vs publication series ==
−
:Do you have a link (or links) to what you're talking about? That will help us better understand your question. Thanks! ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:03, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
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::[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?111531 Right here]. These reviews were all published elsewhere, Interzone mostly.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 16:17, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::That link doesn't work. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:21, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::::Sorry, fixed it.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 16:23, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::::Thanks! What's with the weird page numbering? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:50, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::::::I messed up. Instead of typing (for example) 62|62.1 for the pages with more than one item, I thought 62|1 would work just as well. It didn't. I fixed it and re-submitted, but there's quite a backlog.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 17:59, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:::::::Okay, I approved the page numbering corrections. Please review it and make sure everything looks correct. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 20:23, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::::::::Thanks, it looks right. But what about merging the reviews? Oh, I know. I'll go to "Show All Titles" and merge them that way.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 23:13, 20 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Author name clash -- Christopher Smith vs. Christopher L. Smith ==
+
I've started PVing my Star Trek books, and have tripped over what seems to be inconsistencies in whether whether a numbered sequence should be entered as a (sub)series, or a publication series. E.g., [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?2425 Star Trek Pocket Books] vs [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?305 Star Trek: The Next Generation Numbered], [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?2026 Star Trek: Voyager], etc.
  
−
I recently submitted an edit to variant a story [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2002510] credited as <i>Christopher Smith</i> to a new parent <i>Christopher L. Smith</i>. I had evidence that 'L' had written it (his biography on the Simon & Shuster web site [https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Christopher-L-Smith/166193361]). However, when I look at the main page for 'L' [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?228318], when I click the link for 'only as by Christopher Smith', it takes me to the author page of the non-author [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?112527].
+
It seems like it might be safer to not poke the bear, but I'd interested in what folks think. --[[User:GlennMcG|Glenn]] ([[User talk:GlennMcG|talk]]) 20:47, 3 October 2022 (EDT)
  
−
Is there a step I missed, or is this expected? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 15:24, 21 December 2021 (EST)
+
:The way I think about distinguishing between publication and title series is to ask: If the same book were published by a completely different publisher, would (could) they do so under the same series?  If the answer is "no", it's a publication series; if the answer is "yes", it's a title series.  For your examples, anyone could publish a "Star Trek: Voyager" book, but no one else could publish a "Star Trek Pocket Book" book. --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] ([[User talk:MartyD|talk]]) 09:59, 4 October 2022 (EDT)
  
−
:If there is more than one Christopher Smith (e.g., here, a Christopher Smith who is Christopher L. Smith and a Christopher Smith who is not Christopher L. Smith), then the bibliographies need to be separated by creating two different "Christopher Smith" records.  We do this by adding a disambiguator to one or more of the names.  [[Help:How_to_separate_two_authors_with_the_same_name]] explains how to do that.  Please take a look and see if you can figure out what to do.  Ask if you get stuck, but you'll be a nice test case for that help text, so I don't want to prejudice anything.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 16:32, 21 December 2021 (EST)
+
== Is there a master list of spec fiction sub-genres? ==
  
−
:: Would <b>Christopher Smith (L.)</b> be a reasonable way to disambiguate? None of the examples given in the instructions seem to apply very well. Other than rule that the disambiguator must be added to the right, I'd prefer <b>Christopher (L.) Smith</b> for aesthetic reasons. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 17:02, 21 December 2021 (EST)
+
Apologies in advance for being new and not knowing my way around, but if there is such a list, I couldn't find it. Can someone please direct me? Thanks. <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:VShannon|VShannon]] ([[User talk:VShannon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/VShannon|contribs]]) .</small>
−
:::I'm not sure I understand the issue. We have two Christopher Smith's:
+
:Our inclusion policy defines speculative fiction [[ISFDB:Policy#Contents.2FProject_Scope_Policy|here]]. Not quite the same thing as a master list of all sub-genres (which I think I credible argument could be made against the feasibility of accomplishing such a list), but the closest we have. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 19:46, 8 October 2022 (EDT)
−
:::#{{A|Christopher Smith}} as an alternate name to {{A|Christopher L. Smith}} with a {{T|2002510|single work}}.
+
:The [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Speculative_fiction Speculative fiction template] over on Wikipedia has a pretty good list. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 14:45, 11 October 2022 (EDT)
−
:::#{{A|Christopher Smith (I)|337282}} with three works.
 
−
:::It looks like they are properly separated already based on what you are describing. Did something change since you posted this or am I misunderstanding? --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 17:42, 21 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::::I sorted them out since it looked (based on everything I could find) like there were two different Christopher Smiths. Then I noticed your comment here. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:49, 21 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::::And to answer Glenn's question, "Christopher L. Smith" is always the way the name would be entered unless (for some bizarre reason) a publisher entered his name with parentheses around the middle initial. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:51, 21 December 2021 (EST)
 
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::::: The publisher used the name without any middle initial. That's what started me down this road. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 17:56, 21 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
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:: And I can't comment on whether the instructions for this issue are sufficient. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 17:59, 21 December 2021 (EST)
+
== Login Issue ==
−
::: However, I seem to have been heading the wrong way in attacking the problem after reading the instructions. I didn't pick up on the difference between two authors whose canonic names clash vs. a 1 canonic/1 variant clash. The instructions didn't help as much for the later case, as was I thinking that I could disambiguate the variant. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 21:08, 22 December 2021 (EST)
+
I have been a member for several years, but suddenly my login is rejected. I assume I need to update my password, but can't find anything on the Wiki page about that.
 +
Wcornette
  
−
== Unpaginated illustrations ==
+
: Have you had a chance to check [[ISFDB:FAQ#What_do_I_do_if_I_have_problems_logging_in.3F]]? I have added a clarification re: the 2022-09-06 server move, specifically:
 +
:* If you were able to log in before September 6, 2022 (which is when the ISFDB site was upgraded to HTTPS) and have been unable to log in since, you need to log in to the ISFDB Wiki first. Once you do that, you should be able to log in on the ISFDB side as well.
 +
: [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 18:26, 9 October 2022 (EDT)
 +
:: I had to change my password because my old one somehow didn't comply with PW complexity rules anymore. Somehow the system didn't accept my old PW anymore... So, you may have to change your password anyway, making sure it complies with current PW rules. [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 06:26, 13 October 2022 (EDT)
  
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In [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?360275 The Chronicles of Harris Burdick], each illustration is right before the story it illustrates, on a plate with no page number. How do I add them in the right order, before each story, with no page numbers?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 00:01, 22 December 2021 (EST)
+
== Can we split an author, please? ==
  
−
:[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?602902 Here] is an example of how it's done (please concentrate on the Giger plates, not the Schoenherr & Schiemann illustrations that are part of the regular page count). If you call up the edit screen for the publication, you'll also see how those pages for the plates were entered. Hope that helps, Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 01:44, 22 December 2021 (EST)
+
[https://isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?22465 Author record 22465] contains information about two distinct authors:
−
::I'm sorry, I don't understand how to do it.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 21:21, 24 December 2021 (EST)
 
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:::You would enter "|SORTPAGE" for them. For example, if the plate appeared between pages 142 and 143, you would enter the page number as "|142.5" (without the quotes, but including the pipe before the "142.5") This will sort the page as if it was numbered "142.5", but will display no page number. Be sure to make a note in the publication that the illustration pages are not numbered. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 18:16, 30 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
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== Dead links in publication record (any record?) ==
+
* Hyacinthe Hill was born Virginia Rose Cronin in Manhattan on 24 May 1920. [https://web.archive.org/web/20150919044241/https://library.brooklyn.cuny.edu/pages/archives/findaid/Hill/BioHill.html She married John L. Anderson] and wrote as Hyacinthe Hill. She died on 25 March 1989 in Marin County, California.
 +
* Virginia 'Nanek' Anderson was born Virginia Hadie Combs in Elizabeth City, Virginia on 20 March 1920. She married Carl W. K. Anderson and wrote as Nanek as well as her own name. She died on 25 May 1987 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
  
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While PVing [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?53670 Wall of Years] I noticed that [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/9/95/WLLFYRS1980B.jpg proof cover] is a dead link. Is there something I could/should do about it? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 17:11, 25 December 2021 (EST)
+
Could we please break this up into two author entries? [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] ([[User talk:Sylvar|talk]]) 13:05, 13 October 2022 (EDT)
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:It was deleted many years ago without a reason supplied. I restored it and added a license template. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 22:41, 25 December 2021 (EST)
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: I think I got them untangled. Look at [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?22060 Hyacinthe Hill] and the old record and let me know if I got something wrong. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 13:25, 13 October 2022 (EDT)
 +
:: That looks right to me. Thank you very much! [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] ([[User talk:Sylvar|talk]]) 11:32, 18 October 2022 (EDT)
  
−
== Law of Survival / Kristine Smith ==
+
== Le Guin Award "finalists" not looking quite right ==
  
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While PVing [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?20021 Law of Survival] I discovered that the 'excerpt' for <i>Year's Best Fantasy</i> really isn't an excerpt, but an blurb/description of the then upcoming anthology. And it's not really written by Hartwell, unless he refers to himself in the third person. Is there a better way to mark this up? Should it even be included? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 00:37, 26 December 2021 (EST)
+
A few days ago, the new Le Guin award [https://twitter.com/ursulakleguin/status/1583627414990917632 announced] a winner and two "finalists" from [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ay.cgi?99+2022 the previously announced 9 nominees].  I've just updated 3 records, but - as can be seen from the linked page - the 2 "finalists" appear below the nominees, which doesn't really reflect that those 2 books were recognized. Is there anything that can be tweaked to make them appear in the order winner>finalists>nominees, or is that just how it works with the data model?
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: My 2 cents: I'd skip it as advertisement - unless it is from the actual book, it is not an excerpt and we do not index advertisements... If it stays, it will be an essay with the name of the book and uncredited author I would think... [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 23:28, 30 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
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== The Beast-King Murders ==
+
(FWIW I don't know that there was any indication prior to the winner announcement that there'd be a "finalist" category...) [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] ([[User talk:ErsatzCulture|talk]]) 17:27, 23 October 2022 (EDT)
  
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[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?347790 This book], part of the Phantom Detective series, is attributed to George A. MacDonald (under the pseudonym Robert Wallace). But the Greenleaf Classics website attributes it to D.L. Champion. Which is right?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 02:10, 26 December 2021 (EST)
+
: In our data model, "winners" correspond to Award Level 1, "nominees" correspond to Award Level 9 and "finalists" correspond to Award Level 90. This is due to the fact that we assume that a "finalist" is a work which made it to the final round of jury/voter selection, but didn't become an official "nominee".
−
: Ask the editor who made the variant? [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title_history.cgi?1262846 Here is the history] - Rtrace may still remember his reasoning. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 23:25, 30 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
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== How to Build a Better Robot by James Rollins/Clemens - merge question ==
+
: Also, as [[Help:Screen:EditAward]] says:
 +
:* ISFDB supports two varieties of award types: poll-based and non-poll-based. For poll-based award types, you will see a "Poll place" radio button; enter the numeric award ranking between 1 and 70. For non-poll-based award types, you will see a "Win" radio button and a "Nomination" radio button; check the appropriate button.
 +
: Up until now, it was our understanding that The Ursula K. Le Guin Prize for Fiction didn't rank nominees beyond announcing the winner. Now that we know that they do rank them, we should probably change the Award Type definition from "Not Poll" to "Poll". Once we do that, we should be able to make the "finalists" Award Level 2 and the rest of the nominees Award level 3. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 22:30, 23 October 2022 (EDT)
 +
:: That will be even more confusing than what we have now and a bad idea IMO. We need the ability to order the categories of nominees on the page (for things like short and ling lists for example or fir Finalists). A few of the Russian aware have the same issue. Just adding an explanation in the description on what Finalist means keeps the things a bit cleaner, order on the page notwithstanding. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 23:34, 23 October 2022 (EDT)
  
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It looks like the contents of the hc and tp of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2546979 Crucible] have been been entered separately, and so there are duplicates of the essay "How to Build a Better Robot".  More accurately, there are [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?USE_1=title_title&O_1=exact&TERM_1=how+to+build+a+better+robot&C=AND&USE_2=title_title&O_2=exact&TERM_2=&USE_3=title_title&O_3=exact&TERM_3=&USE_4=title_title&O_4=exact&TERM_4=&USE_5=title_title&O_5=exact&TERM_5=&USE_6=title_title&O_6=exact&TERM_6=&USE_7=title_title&O_7=exact&TERM_7=&USE_8=title_title&O_8=exact&TERM_8=&USE_9=title_title&O_9=exact&TERM_9=&USE_10=title_title&O_10=exact&TERM_10=&ORDERBY=title_title&ACTION=query&START=0&TYPE=Title quadruplicates], due to the book being attributed to a variant author name.
+
::: Back when the current version of the award model was implemented, we identified a few areas where it didn't adequately reflect the variety of scenarios that existed in the real world. After a discussion of possible permutations, {{FR|656}}, "Add support for Displayed Award Levels", was created. A few years later {{FR|1086}}, "Change the award year field to a drop-down list", was created to support certain other scenarios. (We also have {{FR|583}} and {{FR|269}} to support linking awards to authors and publishers, but that's a different can of worms.)
  
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Rather than make a mess of this, could I query the correct way to merge these?  My guess is that the two titles for the James Rollins should be merged first, ensuring that the correct parent ID reference is kept - 2679173 I think - and then merge the two titles for the James Clemens parent author. (Doing the titles for Clemens first would seem to have the risk of leaving one of the Rollins titles with an orphaned parent ID reference, albeit temporarily.)
+
::: For now, we handle awards which use the terms "nominee" and "finalist" interchangeably in a number of ways. Hugo, Campbell/Astounding and Lodestar are currently set up as "Polls" with voting details given in Notes, e.g. see [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/award_details.cgi?73862 this 2022 award record]. In certain cases, we use "Finalists" in the database sense of the world (Award Level 90), which can be confusing, e.g. see [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ay.cgi?27+1977 the 1977 Campbell/Astounding list], where "Finalists" are listed below "Withdrawn -- Ineligible". (We may want to review the internal Award Level values and swap some of them in order to sort more logically.)
  
−
However, one thing that concerns me is that the title merge page (tv_merge.cgi) doesn't give any explicit indication about which of the two IDs would be kept - I'm assuming it's the lowest and/or the one associated with the most "winning" fields when resolving the conflict, in which case 2671973 would indeed be correct (vs 2900726), but this all seems nebulous enough that it seemed safer to pose this question rather than stumble in blindly... [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 17:09, 30 December 2021 (EST)
+
::: Another possible way to handle the Le Guin situation would be to keep the "Poll" flag for this Award Type set to "No". We would then turn all 2022 nominees back to "Nominee", then add notes explaining that 2 of them were singled out as "finalists". [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 10:42, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
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:As you noted, the two duplicates by Clemens should be merged as duplicates. Do this by clicking the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/find_dups.cgi?3919 Check for duplicates link] while on [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?3919 his author page]. There will be a few other possible duplicates listed, too, but ignore those for now. Check the boxes next to the two entries for "How to Build a Better Robot" and click the '''Merge Selected Records" button.
 
−
:Once that's done, you can [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/find_dups.cgi?7151 do the same] for Rollins name. Once those are all merged and approved, you then variant the merged Rollins title to the merged Clemens title, leaving the Clemens title as the only one left, with the Rollins publications varianted to it. Please let me know if you have any questions. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 18:11, 30 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
:: The question is of the order here, not of how to do it :) It ultimately does not matter. The merge will preserve the lower ID -- so you can use that when selecting a parent for the merge of the variants (OR add a moderator note to ask the moderators to first approve the variants merge (submit it first, then use its ID in the notes for the second one in case someone works out of order - that's what I used to do when I could not approve my edits). Worst case scenario, the order gets messed up and something is force rejected - you can then resubmit later :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 23:22, 30 December 2021 (EST)
 
−
::: Thanks both - a couple of edits are in the queue for this. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 16:24, 31 December 2021 (EST)
 
  
−
== Tags, duplicate and mispellings ==
+
:::: Does the following workaround yield your desired result? Select the 'Special' radio button rather than the 'Nomination' radio button. Then choose 'Preliminary Nominees' from the dropdown list. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 11:24, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
 +
::::: It may work for this year but whoever adds them next year may not realize how to enter them (or someone may decide to 'fix' this year's nominations because they are not really preliminary nominations). As a stop-gap, it can work and we can keep an eye on it (and add a note at the award Note explaining the naming). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:41, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::: And then if we are not careful, different years in the same award may also use a different mechanism. In a perfect world, we should be able to set the precedence of the level inside of the category - so if one day an award does something like semi-finalists for example, we do not need to twist the UI yet again :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 11:41, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
  
−
I was looking through a database dump of the tags and noticed that there tags with mispellings like "Detectve" (id 11064) and near duplicates like "into movie" and "into-movie".  Is there a standard for tag names and a process to report and or fix them? --[[User:Colink|Colink]] 22:20, 2 January 2022 (EST)
+
== Help Desk history missing content ==
  
−
: There is {{FR|911}}, "Allow moderators to edit and merge tags"; its comment section discusses some of the functional and technical issues involved. Also, this whole area can be tricky because one person's "obvious duplicate" can be another person's "subtle but important distinction" -- it was one the reasons why we originally made tags user-definable and not subject to the submission creation/approval process.
+
Viewing the Help Desk history, e.g. Revision as of 14:04, 15 November 2019 by Ahasuerus (https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB:Help_desk&oldid=565502) seems to show empty content.
  
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: For now, moderators have the ability to remove clearly incorrect tags. If you notice any, please post on the Moderator Noticeboard and they will be removed. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 22:33, 2 January 2022 (EST)
+
— [[User:FlaSheridn|FlaSheridn]] ([[User talk:FlaSheridn|talk]]) 21:57, 23 October 2022 (EDT)
  
−
== C. H. Hung & Bruce Mcallister ==
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: We only keep the last 50 versions of Wiki pages due to limited disk space. However, old sections are periodically archive, so they are not lost. In this case November 2019 sections can be found in Archive 31, specifically [[ISFDB:Help_desk/archives/archive_31#My_Votes_in_.28Internal_and.2For_External.29_Chronological_Order]]. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 22:12, 23 October 2022 (EDT)
  
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I have a question.  I have just finished reading the November-December 2021 issue of <i><b>Ellery Queen’s Mystery Magazine</b></i> and it contains two stories of interest.  One is by [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?270672 C. H. Hung] and the other is by [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?1424 Bruce McAllister].  Neither are genre, but should they be listed because of the authors?  Lemme know. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 01:53, 3 January 2022 (EST)
+
== Problem finding license types for uploaded image files ==
  
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:IMO, the answer is no, unless the issue of the magazine is being included for some other reason. I don't know if others will disagree. #4 [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Policy#Included here] says ''Works (both fiction and non-fiction) which are not related to speculative fiction, but were produced by authors who have otherwise published works either of or about speculative fiction over a ''certain threshold'' (see below). This includes any non-genre works published as standalone books as well as non-genre short fiction, but excludes non-fiction which was not published as a standalone book. ...''.  Assuming for the sake of argument that those authors are both above the "certain threshold", we would allow inclusion of the pieces.  But #4 [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Policy#Excluded here] says ''Works unrelated to speculative fiction that are found in primarily non-genre publication that will be cataloged based on other criteria, e.g. a Norton anthology of 19 century literature or a Playboy issue that include a single speculative story. This is done to avoid having to catalog huge amounts of non-SF data.''  It's not quite the same, but I think the "Norton anthology" example is relevant. Basically, non-genre anthologies are not "in" just because of an association with a genre author; by extension, that same treatment would apply to magazines. So if that issue of ''Ellery Queen's Mystery Magazine'' were "in" because it contained an SF story or an article/interview related to SF, then it would be acceptable to include those particular non-genre stories.  But because the magazine is non-genre and the stories are non-genre, the presence of those stories is not sufficient for that issue to be "in".  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 07:02, 3 January 2022 (EST)
+
When uploading files (eg. an author image) to the wiki, shouldn't there be a drop down box in File Description that allows you to select the license? The only option I see is "None selected". Ultimately I'm looking for the area where I can specify the license type, image creator, source, etc. Thanks. [[User:PeteYoung|PeteYoung]] ([[User talk:PeteYoung|talk]]) 13:21, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
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::Well, okay then, on to something else. Now I know. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 22:39, 3 January 2022 (EST)
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:Hmm, the [[Special:Upload|Upload file]] page has a link (at least for moderators?) for editing [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] which controls the pull down. Looking at the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Licenses Wikipedia version], it looks like it only allows for simply static licenses. So we could make use of it, but people would still need to add information to allow linking back to the database (author id, etc.). If people think it would useful for having at least partial templates, I would be willing to enter them. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 13:41, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
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:Right now, [[:Category:Image License Tags]] is linked from the image upload page. Instead of selecting a license from the list (which isn't populated right now), you should use one of the templates listed in that category. The correct template will include the correct license. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 15:16, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
 +
::I've updated the list based on the list of templates in [[:Category:Image License Tags]]. Let us know if that works for you. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:23, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
 +
:::That looks ideal, thanks. Will use this list tomorrow and report back on any problems. Cheers. [[User:PeteYoung|PeteYoung]] ([[User talk:PeteYoung|talk]]) 16:27, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
 +
::::You will need to edit the image page afterward in order to fill in the appropriate information. You'll also have to copy the parameters from the template page so you know what you need to fill in for the template. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:30, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
  
−
== re Cover Image Data ==
+
== Two authors same name, needs (I)? ==
  
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Hello to all,
+
These https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=ogunyemi&type=Name do appear to be two different authors, but then shouldn't one of them be (I)? Thanks. [[User:Gzuckier|gzuckier]] ([[User talk:Gzuckier|talk]]) 00:56, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
 +
: The only difference in the two names is the use, or lack, of a diacritic dot under the e in the last name. The first step is to confirm that we didn't make a data entry error. A check of the attribution in issue 1 of [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?846349 34 Orchard] confirms the name was entered correctly. Based on the available bios, it appears this is just one author.
 +
: The proper way to handle is to make [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?328010 Ernest O. Ògúnyemí] and alternate name of [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?344390 Ernest O. Ògúnyẹmí]. Then make [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2880603 Christmas Chicken] a variant title. Sumit these two edits and I will approve them. Thanks for finding this, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 09:28, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
  
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I just can't remember : is it possible for a non-moderator to upgrade the Cover Image Data Web page (viz., to replace the previous scanner's name by his, and suppress the older versions) ? I thought I'd better check before telling off a contributor who never does, he might not be able to… TIA (and a Happy New Year to all, while I'm at it), [[User:Linguist|Linguist]] 08:14, 3 January 2022 (EST).
+
== Narrator template and multiple narrators ==
−
:A non-moderator can upload a new image & edit the page to replace the previous scanner's name. It depends by what you mean "suppress the older versions". If you upload a new version, that becomes the new version and the prior one is "hidden". If you mean delete the prior one, then, no, deletion of wiki pages is a moderator only function. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 18:31, 3 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::Thanks a lot ! That's all I needed to know (and what I thought as well) ! [[User:Linguist|Linguist]] 04:40, 4 January 2022 (EST).
 
  
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== Adding a new collection ==
+
I've recently started adding audiobooks, and a few of them have more than one narrator.  In those cases I've just added multiple separate narrator templates, but I've just seen [https://isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?819107 this omnibus pub] where 5 narrators are listed in one template, separated by " and ".  Is one or both of these correct usage?  Neither [[Template:PublicationFields:PubNote]] nor [[Help:Using_Templates_and_HTML_in_Note_Fields]] have anything to say on this particular use case (which may well be equally applicable to other templates like A.
  
−
Very basic question. Been all through the Help areas without finding an answer, but maybe I missed something obvious.
+
My guess is that right now, it doesn't make much difference, but if/when the current use of templates is superseded by having some sort of "role" functionality for contributors to pubs, then having something that can be easily and unambiguously parsed would be preferable. From a quick SQL query of the database, I note that there are 87 author records that contain the text ' and '.  Granted, most of those are unlikely to ever be narrators, but could easily be referenced in A templates, and it might be preferable to have some consistent handling across template types, rather than special casing Narrator? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] ([[User talk:ErsatzCulture|talk]]) 16:18, 7 November 2022 (EST)
 +
: It is the same issue as with the translator template - we can deal with all possibilities when we are ready to convert one day. I use "and" and "," as separators between the names and rarely use the A (author) template inside of the Translator/Narrator. And when working internationally, we have an extra challenge of adding the transliterations inside of the template (as there is no space for them elsewhere as it will be if they become proper author records). So pick up a way to record and when it comes to parsing, there won't be that many options to cover anyway. If and when the special characters become an issue, we can revisit but for now as long as the data is there, I am not too worried about converting later. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 16:23, 7 November 2022 (EST)
  
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If I'm adding an author's new collection, when do I add the existing stories that are already in ISFDB? Do I create the new collection without any stories and later get the opportunity to import the stories after the new title is approved by a moderator? I don't see any "import" possibility on the New Collection page.
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== Name of the artist misspelled ==
  
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'''Color me easily confused.''' I'm returning here after nearly a year away (because life happens) that was preceded by only a month or so that contained mistakes. [[User:Sfmvnterry|Sfmvnterry]] 01:55, 4 January 2022 (EST) (Interested to see what happens with a "Watch this page" selection.)
+
.
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: Welcome back! :)
+
Good day,
−
: Yep, after the adding of the collection is approved, you can use our Import functionality to import the stories we have using their IDs. You cannot import during a creation (or an edit) - it is a separate page which requires the collection to be already in place. You can either add it as an empty one or you can add the stories/essays we do not have (if there are any).
 
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: The menu is called "Import Content" and here is the [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Screen:ImportContent help page] for it once you get to that point. Let me know if I can assist with anything else. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:02, 4 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::Thank you. Allow me to point out that as far as I can tell, nowhere in the help is this two-step process made clear. I did find the "Import Content" page in the process of trying to answer my question myself. Thanks again. [[User:Sfmvnterry|Sfmvnterry]] 18:02, 4 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::: Some of the help pages are old and there is always the "we know that" bias when help pages are written. Looking for the most logical place for this: Will it help if we include a note/subsection about the Import option [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Screen:NewPub#Content_Information here]? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:06, 4 January 2022 (EST)
 
  
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:::: Good point. I have updated that Help section -- could you please take a look to see if it makes sense? [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:58, 4 January 2022 (EST)
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The name of an illusterator in the recent issue of GHOSTS & SCHOLARS (no.43) is misspelled.
  
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::::: I think that it is clear enough. We probably need something similar for the [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Screen:EditPub#Content_Information  Edit page help] as well but that’s a good start. We may want to template part of these two pages - too much repetition so a chance to easily get out of sync. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:07, 4 January 2022 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?922187
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:::::: Done. Unfortunately, the EditPub scenario was so different that the same language could not be shared by the two Help pages. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 12:47, 5 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::::::: Yep - that is why I said similar and did not just copy it over :) Looks good to me - we can always adjust if needed. Thanks for taking care of it. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:53, 5 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::::: Here's a vote from a newbie agreeing that the update looks helpful. [[User:Sfmvnterry|Sfmvnterry]] 22:58, 4 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:::::: Awesome. :) Thanks for pointing the problem out! [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 10:39, 5 January 2022 (EST)
 
  
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== The em-dash swamp (redux) ==
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Instead of 'Carl Lavoir', it should be: Carl Lavoie.
  
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I'm PVing [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?103361] and ran across the story <i>Golden the Ship Was — Oh! Oh! Oh!</i>. The title page for the story doesn't have spaces around the em-dash, which is in conflict with publication entry. Help for 'title' [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Template:PublicationFields:Title] indicates there shouldn't be surrounding spaces. Is this a rathole to avoid, or something I should attempt to submit an edit for?
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There's already a page for him:
  
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: Has this query been lost, or is the lack of input a hint to let sleeping dogs lie. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 15:11, 14 December 2021 (EST)
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https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?269730
  
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:: Perhaps it's more like Fight Club. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 15:34, 4 January 2022 (EST)
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Could the name please be corrected and the illustration credit linked to the illustrator's profile?
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::: Just holidays. :) Technically m-dash's punctuation is well defined in the rules so if you submit a change, it will be approved. Now - do you want to go down that rabbit hole - have fun. That may be something we may want to do a report on actually and clean up a bit more systematically (or discuss a change in the rules). [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:08, 4 January 2022 (EST)
 
  
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:::: Checking the database, I see that we have 7156 titles with an em-dash. Of that number, 4316, or 60%, have at least one adjacent space. For Publication records, the numbers are 548 and 329, i.e. also 60%.
+
Thank you, and have a wonderful day!
  
−
:::: Given the discrepancy between [[Template:PublicationFields:Title]], which says:
+
Sincerely,
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::::* Em-dashes should be entered directly adjacent to the words on both sides
 
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:::: and the predominant practice, we may want to have a Rules and Standards discussion to determine which way we want to take it. Once we have consensus, we can update Help and create two cleanup reports, one for Title records and one for Publication records. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:51, 4 January 2022 (EST)
 
  
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== As Tomorrow Becomes Today / Sullivan ==
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-Carl Lavoie <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Jahrel|Jahrel]] ([[User talk:Jahrel|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jahrel|contribs]]) .</small> 07:57, 17 November 2022‎ (EST)
 +
.
 +
:Thanks for letting us know. I've asked the person who verified that issue to come comment here. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:00, 17 November 2022 (EST)
 +
:Looking at the issue, it appears that was already corrected. It's current showing as "Carl Lavoie". ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 16:06, 17 November 2022 (EST)
  
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I'm trying to fix/complete the edits I made on the anthology [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?35007 As Tomorrow Becomes Today]. The publication uses the author spelling of 'Charles Wm. Sullivan III' everywhere in/on the book. I normalize this to 'Charles Wm. Sullivan, III' as per rules. The section essays in the book are titled, but not given a separate author attribution.
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== Capitalization/varianting of David D. Levine's Tk'tk'tk aka Tk'Tk'Tk ==
  
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Should I be attacking this from the title record, or the publication? I believe that I'll need to create variant titles pointing at the canonic author 'C. W. Sullivan, III', but I need some guidance on what order to proceed in. Thanks. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 15:44, 7 January 2022 (EST)
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At least some pubs of [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?194675 this story] use the form "Tk'Tk'Tk", rather than the currently recorded "Tk'tk'tk". Examples of the former are the 21st Century SF anthology (*), the Space Magic anthology, and the derived chapbook that includes just that story; examples that use the latter are [https://escapepod.org/2006/05/18/ep054-tktktk/ Escape Pod 54]. Is this something that we should try to record the particular pub's usage exactly as far as possible using variant titles, or are there perhaps R&S capitalization rules that override things?  I would have assumed the former, but given that this is a reasonably high-profile short story - albeit with an annoyingly-hard-to-get-right title - I'd have thought this one might have been caught before now?
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:Title record. The essays only appear in the tp and hc editions of this book. It is likely the hc used the same credits as the tp. The current essays are credited to {{A|Charles W. Sullivan}}. You can just edit the title records to change to {{A|Charles Wm. Sullivan, III}}. This will change them in both publications. They are already varianted to the canonical name so you don't need to variant. Hope I explained that clearly enough... --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 18:17, 7 January 2022 (EST)
 
  
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:: Edits are in. Now all that's left is whether the section essays should be copied to the hc pub. The clone (from tp, I believe) was done before they were added to the tp. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 00:54, 8 January 2022 (EST)
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(* - at least per the contents listing of the ebook, the title on the story itself appears in all caps) [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] ([[User talk:ErsatzCulture|talk]]) 16:30, 17 November 2022 (EST)
  
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== Help with Cover Art automatically misattributed to an author ==
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== Sarah Monette's "Letter from a Teddy Bear on Veterans Day" ==
  
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Hello, I entered the Cover Art data with the name "Laura Fernandez" in my two pubs: {{P|366702|Firewing}} and {{P|874755|Sunwing}}, without an accent, and both entries added the accent and attributed it to {{A|272892|Laura Fernández}}. Could someone help replacing these links to the correct artist: {{A|272875|Laura Fernandez}} please? Or let me know how I can do it, thank you. -[[User:Kapotun|Kapotun]] 00:29, 9 January 2022 (EST)
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I stumbled across a duplicate and have a couple of questions about making a variant. From the web page, I can see that the original publication, "[https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2450357 Letter from a Teddy Bear on Veteran's Day]," is correctly listed but I don't have access to the anthologies which print it as "[https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1325592 Letter from a Teddy Bear on Veterans' Day]" (I didn't see it immediately but the difference is the plural possessive apostrophe vs. the singular) so I'm not sure if that's correctly listed or not. Both titles are actually wrong in terms of the name of the holiday which is "Veterans Day" (no apostrophe at all) so I don't know which should be canonical (presumably the first publication). And, while I doubt it, should there be a sort of redirect alternate title with the correct punctuation because, when you search for "Veterans Day," only "Veterans Day" by Cat Sparks shows up and this one doesn't. --[[User:J-Sun|J-Sun]] ([[User talk:J-Sun|talk]]) 15:14, 18 November 2022 (EST)
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: Wow, this is so complicated it almost seems like one of mine, but I'll try to sort it out. I (Username) added both Archive.org links, 1 for each variant of the title, and when the 1 that was accepted recently was approved I think I'd completely forgotten that I added the other one late last year until I just looked at them now. The one spelled "Veteran's" is a 2006 page but the Archive link was in 2015 for some reason, while the one spelled "Veterans'" doesn't have a date on it but the Archive link is from 2007. Monette's Prime Books collection with this story is on Archive.org and I checked it; it's "Veterans'". The Prime Books anthology it appeared in, which was apparently one of many they did which got cancelled before making it to the shelves, also, according to the linked blog post in the record, has "Veterans'". So here's what I say; she corrected the title in later appearances, so that should be the parent and "Veteran's" should be the variant. --[[User:Username|Username]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]]) 15:35, 18 November 2022 (EST)
  
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:To differentiate the two, we have the artist entered as 'Laura Fernandez (artist)'. We do this to avoid listings of titles in the entry for an author or artist that don't belong there (for example, we have four different David Williams). So, you just need to enter 'Laura Fernandez (artist)' in the publication entries and the system will list it in the correct author summary. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 07:52, 9 January 2022 (EST)
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== Dating variants  ==
  
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::Got it, thanks. I'll submit the edits for approval then. -[[User:Kapotun|Kapotun]] 14:41, 9 January 2022 (EST)
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I am unclear what to do in case we have a title by a variant author name that's dated earlier than the same title but published by the canonical author name.  [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1060152 this one], for example, confuses me. The story [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1060152 'Party Favors'] has been published under the variant author name Alex Nathan Shumate in 1994. Only later was this title published under the author's canonical name Nathan Shumate in 2015. Currently, the parent title (by Nathan Shumate) is dated 1994, whereas it actually got published only in 2015 under the author's canonical name. I know we've been discussing this on and off, but to my knowledge we never got a clear set of rules for these, or do we?
  
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== Previously published version not in database ==
+
Should we re-date the parent title to 2015? But if we do, we will have a parent title that's published later than its variant title by Alex Nathan Shumate of 1994. And the author's bibliography will show the title as published in 2015, not in 1994 as it should.
  
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In [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?875056 Three-Fisted Tales of "Bob"], the foreword "Behind-ForeEverAfterword: Sects and Death", by William S. Burroughs, was first published in 1979 as just "Sects and Death" in Burroughs' collection ''Roosevelt After Inauguration and Other Atrocities'', not in the db. Do I date the version in ''Three-Fisted Tales of "Bob"'' to 1979, or not, because it's not the original title?--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 03:00, 11 January 2022 (EST)
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Conversely, should we date the parent title to the date of the first appearance of said title, whether it's the variant date or not? That will result in correct date in author's bibliography, but will result in wrong date of when the title actually appeared. (probably need to move to r&s, but hey, I'm confused...) [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 07:23, 19 November 2022 (EST)
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: Nope. But you can add the missing book and the missing title - that will have the original date and become a parent for the story we have now. Stories are dated based on when they are first published under that title and author form :) Unless that falls under the “better known as” rule and the story we have become the parent - then it will get dated based on first occurrence under any title. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 03:27, 11 January 2022 (EST)
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:Parents are dated based on the first appearance of the story (excluding translations) under any title or author credit. The only exception is if a translation was published first. In that case, we still use the first date published in the author's canonical language. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 08:24, 19 November 2022 (EST)
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::Okay, I did.--[[User:Rosab618|Rosab618]] 03:43, 14 January 2022 (EST)
+
:: Yes, I agree - that is the only case where a title is not dated based on its own publications but based on all publications in the title’s original language. That way it stays where it belongs in the publication order. The parent serves a double function for us - it is one of the titles (as any variant it carries) but it is also the main record for a text/book. As such, it is not treated as a regular variant (that’s why we can also have empty parents but not empty variants for example). Some DBs and sites solve that by having a “canonical” record which never belongs into a work. In ours we just use a record using the canonical name of the author when one with the correct title exists. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 12:18, 19 November 2022 (EST)
 +
::: OK, that's clear, thanks. Shouldn't we add this rule explicitly into the rules somewhere for future reference? [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] ([[User talk:MagicUnk|talk]]) 16:05, 22 November 2022 (EST)
  
−
== Box set of the Lord of the Rings (and the Hobbit) ==
+
== Can't log in and nothing works ==
  
−
Trying to figure out the best way to add this publication. It has a separate ISBN (inferred from 23523-1) 0-345-23523-1. There's no separate title on the box, so I assume that I should give the main title as the individual titles separated by ' / '.
+
Trying to add a new collection to my page.  My old login is being rejected.  All the notices tell me what to do, but not how to do it.  Why is it so hard to log in? <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Lwoolley|Lwoolley]] ([[User talk:Lwoolley|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lwoolley|contribs]]) .</small> 15:49, 22 November 2022‎ (EST)
 +
:Which page? Please share the URL. Also, what is your old username (since you said you're having trouble logging in)?
 +
:To login, you should login here on the wiki first. That should log you into the database side of ISFDB.  ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 17:54, 22 November 2022 (EST)
  
−
Should I add the titles during the 'add omnibus', or import them later?  
+
== Harlequin Pub Series with sub-series?==
 +
The [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?1155 Harlequin] Publication Series [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?1155 Harlequin American Romance] has a paranormal romance-themed miniseries/sub-series, [https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/38969.More_Than_Men_Harlequin_American_Romance More Than Men] (here's [https://www.goodreads.com/series/211731-more-than-men another Goodreads list]). The books in More Than Men all have pub series numbers listed for the Harlequin American Romance pub series (for instance, [https://openlibrary.org/books/OL9441981M/Neptune%27s_Bride Neptune's Bride is HAR 509], but they don't appear to have pub series numbers listed for the More Than Men miniseries. Is it preferable to list the More Than Men books in the Harlequin American Romance pub series with their pub series numbers included? Or should I list them in a new More Than Men pub series without any pub series numbers? Or do something else?  
  
−
The artwork on the box is various labeled illustration elements (heraldry?) from JRRT. For example, Elwe, Luthen Tinvviel, Finwe. Add as cover art?  
+
(Several of the More Than Men books are also in different Harlequin pub series, e.g. a [https://openlibrary.org/books/OL7417371M/Dreamscapes Neptune's Bride reprint] is in [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?191 Silhouette] pub series [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?1553 Dreamscapes: Whispers of Love].) [[User:Morebooks|Morebooks]] ([[User talk:Morebooks|talk]]) 23:40, 30 November 2022 (EST)
  
−
Is the format of the omnibus the format of the books within?
+
: Is it correct to assume that 'Harlequin American Romance' is devoted not only to speculative titles? Than, in my view, the case is similar to [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?432 Phantastische Bibliothek] and [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?2217 Suhrkamp Taschenbuch], with the books published in 'Phantastische Bibliothek' all also having a publication series no. within (and being part of) 'Suhrkamp Taschenbuch'. We decided to do it this way because the first series is devoted to speculative fiction titles and we are a site devoted to the same area. So, yes, under the above assumption I'd think the books within the 'More Than Men' should be indexed here with their own pub. series (and accompanying no.). Hope that helps, Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] ([[User talk:Stonecreek|talk]]) 04:27, 1 December 2022 (EST)
 +
:: Yes, Harlequin American Romance contains both specfic and non-specfic titles, while More Than Men is only specfic. More Than Men doesn’t have corresponding pub series numbers like Harlequin American Romance does. Should I put the books in a new More Than Men pub series while giving them the pub series numbers from Harlequin American Romance? Or should I put the books in More Than Men pub series and leave the pub series numbers blank? [[User:Morebooks|Morebooks]] ([[User talk:Morebooks|talk]]) 06:01, 1 December 2022 (EST)
 +
::: Or what if I name the new pub series "Harlequin American Romance: More Than Men" and then include the HAR pub series numbers? [[User:Morebooks|Morebooks]] ([[User talk:Morebooks|talk]]) 16:34, 1 December 2022 (EST)
 +
:::: Either works but make sure the decision is documented in the notes of the series so people can understand what we are naming and numbering :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 17:05, 1 December 2022 (EST)
 +
::::: Poking around more Harlequin paranormal romances, this is apparently going to be an ongoing issue with the publisher. E.g Harlequin has another pub series, [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?3588 Harlequin Temptation], that's a mixture of specfic and non-specfic titles; Temptation in turn has at least 2 sub-series that are also mixtures of specfic & non-specfic titles, [https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/74775.Lovers_Legends_Harlequin_Temptation Lovers & Legends] and [https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/74808.Secret_Fantasies_Harlequin_Temptation Secret Fantasies]. And so on & so forth across various other Harlequin pub series & imprints. So what's the preferable way to handle this consistently? Keep creating  new pub series for the sub-series? Ignore the sub-series? Move the pub series like Harlequin Temptation into a new separate publisher listing so the sub-series can be pub series for that imprint? [[User:Morebooks|Morebooks]] ([[User talk:Morebooks|talk]]) 03:09, 2 December 2022 (EST)
  
−
--[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 21:48, 11 January 2022 (EST)
+
:::::: Ideally, we would implement {{FR|327}}, "Allow nested publication series". Unfortunately, it would take a significant amount of development time, so it's not on my short list of things to do. For now, any of the proposed solutions would work as long as we document what we are doing in Notes. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] ([[User talk:Ahasuerus|talk]]) 09:19, 2 December 2022 (EST)
−
: Yes for the title - use the "/" separator if the box does not have its own title.
+
::::::: Just as a reminder, we also have the MultiPubS template (no parameters) which is to be used when a book is in two publication series (nested or not) and which should make it easier to untangle these when/if we ever can do nested and/or multiple pub series. I tend to add the other series name and number (if one is available). See [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?883977 this] for an example. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 13:13, 2 December 2022 (EST)
−
: Import the novels later (add in the moderator note of the new Omnibus that you are going to do that). Although you may want to check the existing omnibuses - if there is one with the title as you need it, clone from it thus eliminating the need to variant/merge and import later :)
 
−
: Yes for the box art (that's the cover of the omnibus) and the format (the books format inside of it determine the overall format). Add in the notes that it is a boxset. Did I get everything? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 21:59, 11 January 2022 (EST)
 
  
−
:: Hmmmm. All the boxed sets are titled 'The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings', except for one titled [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?490347 Tolkien], which happens to be a latter printing of mine. (Same box). Thoughts? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 02:12, 12 January 2022 (EST)
+
== The Eye of the Lens ==
−
::: Up to you. :) You can also call it Tolkien if you want (based on the cover image) or go for the / standard - these kinds of boxes are a bit ambiguous. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 10:45, 14 January 2022 (EST)
+
The novelette "The Eye of the Lens" is a concatenation of three short stories, "The Hall of Machines", "The Coming of the Sun", and "The Eye of the Lens," apparently with no changes to the stories. We don't have a listing for the short story "The Eye of the Lens" yet, I'm about to add one. I've separated out the three pubs of the short story from the pubs of the novelette. Where the three short stories are published, they are all three together, so it's  as if the novelette was published, but the subsections listed. None of the short stories appear anywhere on their own without the other two.
  
−
== Help page for novel->novella conversion incorrect or outdated? ==
+
My question is do I make the three separate short stories a variant of the novelette in some way? Or just have a note to relate them?  
  
−
Adrian Tchaikovsky's Elder Race is a novella per [https://twitter.com/aptshadow/status/1481335257664270348 Twitter]; confirmed by Kobo reporting 40k words for the ebook (which presumably includes copyright page text, etc). As this title has 2 pubs (ebook and tp), I followed the instructions at [[Help:How_to_convert_a_novel_to_a_chapbook#Special_Instructions_.28Titles_with_more_than_one_publication_record.29]].
+
Thanks. [[User:Gzuckier|gzuckier]] ([[User talk:Gzuckier|talk]]) 00:31, 1 December 2022 (EST)
 +
: No, they won't be variants unless they were serialized (aka - it was always one story, just published in pieces - in which case the smaller pieces become serials instead of stories). There are 2 ways to record that if we do not go the serials route:
 +
::* Always include the 3 stories where the new bigger story is published. That works if the split is obvious in the big story.
 +
::* Use notes to connect the fix-up story to its stories. We do that usually for fix-up novels which do not get treated as collections but it can work here as well.
 +
: However if the 3 short stories never appear on their own after their initial publication and always appear as part of the novelette, then they sound more like chapters/serialization than separate stories. If so, we may actually be better off making the initial ones SERIAL and connecting them to their parent. Intent matters here - it is important to know if they were planned to be one story or if they were 3 separate stories that then got fixed-up into a single entity. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 17:13, 1 December 2022 (EST)
 +
:::OK, I'll do some mental activity. It's one of those New Wave type writings that doesn't fit into any categories politely. [[User:Gzuckier|gzuckier]] ([[User talk:Gzuckier|talk]]) 23:28, 1 December 2022 (EST)
  
−
I have submitted [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5195349 an] edit to convert the title from NOVEL to SHORTFICTION/novella per items #2 & 3.  Item #4 says I can proceed to edit the pub records from NOVEL to CHAPBOOK as "You do not have to wait for moderation before proceeding to the next step."
+
== How to Convert a Chapbook to a Novel ==
  
−
The next step appears to be editing the pub records as per [[Help:How_to_convert_a_novel_to_a_chapbook#Special_Instructions_.28Titles_with_more_than_one_publication_record.29]], but skipping item #3. However, after adding a new CHAPBOOK record to the contents (per item #4), and hitting submit, I get a Javascript alert popup stating "ANTHOLOGY, COLLECTION, NONFICTION, NOVEL, and OMNIBUS titles are not allowed within CHAPBOOK publications."
+
I am editing and PVing [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?801874 Christopher Ruocchio / The Lesser Devil]. It is 56329 words long so comfortably a novel, however, it is currently recorded as a Chapbook. I have found this help page: [https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:How_to_convert_a_novel_to_a_chapbook How to convert a novel to a chapbook] but I cannot find a help page telling me how to do the reverse. Can someone please point me in the direction of the appropriate help page or, if there isn't one, tell me what to do. Thanks. [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 18:48, 1 December 2022 (EST)
−
 
+
: Step one: Change the short fiction title ([https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2770499 this one] to a novel.  
−
I'm sure I'd be able to progress once my first edit to the title record is accepted by a mod, but unless I'm missing something or have made an error, the sentence about not having to wait for moderation should be removed or altered? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 16:45, 12 January 2022 (EST)
+
: Step 2-x: Go into each of the chapbook publications and use "Remove Title from Publication" to eject the Chapbook record.
−
: The software got updated, the help page was forgotten. Back in the days, you could indeed add pretty much any type to any record - thus allowing easier conversions. The result was exactly what you would expect. So a few years ago, a few cleanup reports were created so we can clean all publications with weird types in them and the software was updated not to allow weird combinations.
+
: Step Last: If the novella was in any collections and anthologies, check if they do not need to be changed to Omnibuses. If it is in a magazine, you will need to replace it in the magazine with the Complete Novel serial. If it was serialized, make sure the rules for novels and not for stories are applied to the dating. If the book has variants, all of them need to be changed the same way with steps 1-x :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 18:56, 1 December 2022 (EST)
−
: Your edit is approved so you can go and fix these - apparently my hunch on the length being iffy was correct on this one. :) I will fix the help page. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:15, 12 January 2022 (EST)
+
:: Forgot one step of course somewhere in the copying around: Once the short story is changed to a novel AND the chapbook is ejected (both need to be approved first), the publication needs to be changed to a novel as well. As you won't even be able to submit these pub type changes before the other two changes are approved, it may make sense to actually add a moderator note to ask the handling moderator to assist -- and just check at the end to make sure they did and submit if they missed it. :) That one is now all approved. Thanks for finding out the length. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 23:52, 2 December 2022 (EST)
−
:: [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:How_to_convert_a_novel_to_a_chapbook#Special_Instructions_.28Titles_with_more_than_one_publication_record.29 Done]. Let me know if that reads ok. Thanks for finding the issue! :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:19, 12 January 2022 (EST)
+
:::1) Thanks for updating the pub records. As I stated in the Notes to Moderator, I was going to do this myself because I don't like asking moderators to do stuff that I can do. However, given your recommendation, I will do so if I come across this scenario again in the future. I presume you've suggested this because otherwise the inconsistent pub record(s) will get flagged in a cleanup report whilst my edit is waiting to be approved.
−
::: Thanks - I think your edit covers what I reported, but I think there's another issue with that page...
+
:::2) Now that we've done all these edits, there is an [https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2770497 empty Chapbook record] hanging around. Should I submit an edit to delete it or will it automatically get deleted as a result of some cleanup process? [[User:Teallach|Teallach]] ([[User talk:Teallach|talk]]) 16:48, 3 December 2022 (EST)
−
::: In [[Help:How_to_convert_a_novel_to_a_chapbook#Publication_Record_Edit_Only_.28Titles_with_a_single_publication.29]], having the note about changing the title subtype to novella/novelette/short story at #9 strongly implies that this should be done for the CHAPBOOK contents, given that is what had been referred to in the preceding steps #4-8.  Surely this should be done for the existing contents record that was converted from NOVEL to SHORTFICTION in step #3?  As such, it might be better to move the current #9 item up to be #4, and/or explicitly state that the subtype is for that record, not the CHAPBOOK one?  (And update the subsequent section for cases where there are multiple pubs accordingly.)  I'll happily edit the page if someone can sanity check my thinking. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 17:27, 12 January 2022 (EST)
+
:::: That helps not having the inconsistent formats stay a long time in the DB, get flagged on a report and needing someone to get to them. You submitting also works - and I would recommend checking just in case the handling moderator missed the note - sometimes it happens. I would usually do that step when I am approving even without a note (this one is just a bit clunky due to the inability to submit it early). We will fix it sooner or later (we have a report for it) but we don’t work all reports daily (or even weekly) :)
−
:::: Let me finish an anthology I am trying not to lose track of and I will look at that order in there :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:32, 12 January 2022 (EST)
+
:::: Oops, I thought I deleted it. Now I did. But yes - if it is not deleted, submit the deletion. It will show up on a report and we will zap it one day when someone works through the report but a deletion is needed so if you notice it, off it goes. Basically authors, publishers and publication series get deleted automatically when the last entry under them is deleted; titles and series need a delete submission when they are empty. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] ([[User talk:Anniemod|talk]]) 20:00, 3 December 2022 (EST)
−
::::: I think I got it. Moved to Step 4. And added down in the special instruction as well (and then you will skip steps 3 and 4). Let me know if I missed something. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:58, 12 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Variant interviews ==
 
−
 
 
−
I have two interview records with alternate-name authors as interviewee (like [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?155601 here]). How do I variant these records, so that they show up under the author's canonical name? [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 11:17, 14 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
: You don't - you use the canonical name AND add a note on what names is used - it is a software limitation. See [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Template:TitleFields:Interviewee the help page]: "Interviewee - The canonical name of the person being interviewed, whether or not it matches the form(s) of the name used in the interview." :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 11:21, 14 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Duplicate ISBN numbers ==
 
−
 
 
−
Hi Annie. As you moderate a lot of my edits, I'll let you know. I just submitted a cloned version of the ebook "The Very Best of Barry N. Malzberg". I was very surprised to see the "Duplicate ISBN" message. I checked, and there is a duplicate ISBN for both the current ebook version (just submitted) and Silverberg's "Lord of Darkness" (2012), which are both on Nonstop Press. I assume one is a typo, and I just sent an email to Nonstop to see if I can find out what the actual story is. I'll update if I can find out which one is incorrect, assuming that is what is going on. At worst, if this is a fatal problem, I can resubmit the clone request after I know what the correct ISBNs are here. Thanks.[[User:Dave888|Dave888]] 13:33, 17 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Might be a typo, might also be Nonstop Press being weird and actually printing/using the same one (won't be for the first time - even the major publishers had done it now and again). Document where the source of the ISBN is and we are all set. No need to cancel it - it will get handned and note written if needed. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:48, 19 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Sequence for editing a magazine issue with no content ==
 
−
 
 
−
This is my first attempt at this sort of thing, so I apologize for my ignorance.
 
−
 
 
−
I subscribe to [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?36993 Galaxy's Edge] and noticed that issues of the magazine have been neglected at isfbd since the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?761622 January 2020 issue].  So I thought I would update/add issues to get them current.  The first one (the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?761622 January 2020 issue]) has an entry but no content.  The process for updating this seems somewhat convoluted, but perhaps that is unavoidable (I lack the knowledge to judge).
 
−
 
 
−
My main question is, what is the best/correct sequence for doing all the necessary steps?
 
−
 
 
−
I assume that the first step is to either edit the entry to add missing content, OR import content that already exists (using Option 2).  The magazine has both new and reprint short fiction.  I get the impression that it is better to import the reprints rather than merge them after the fact, but I could have that wrong.  If this is true, then I should do both (add & import) in two seperate actions.  Another question relating to this is, should I wait for one action (adding content OR importing content) to get approved by a moderator before proceeding to the other?  Or is it safe to have both the Edits and Imports in queue for the same entry at the same time?  And does it matter which one I do first?
 
−
 
 
−
In addition to the Edit and Import actions, I also have to do several things (I assume these all come after the above edit action has been moderator approved):
 
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−
- Apparently I need to enter this [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?104853 poem] as if it is a new entry during the above edit process, because in this case the author, [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?48 Mike Resnick], used a facetious pseudonym (Mike Wadsworth Resnick) which has not been used before (at least in the isfbd records).  Then I turn that new entry into a variation of the original poem.  And perhaps I also connect the pseudonym to the canonical author?  I am not clear on this process yet.  The rules here are a bit too voluminous to digest in one go.
 
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−
- I also need to turn an English translation of a Romanian [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2688510 story] into a variant after first creating it as a new entry during the above edit, and then add the translators into the notes on the variant after the variant has been moderator approved.
 
−
 
 
−
- And I need to connect book reviews in the magazine to the entries of the books being reviewed.
 
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−
- And I need to connect essays that are part of a series to the existing series.
 
−
 
 
−
It seems that none of these steps are automated.  The only automated part I noticed is the connecting of new stories to the existing author record if one exists.
 
−
 
 
−
One other thing I am a little vague on is how I indicate that all this data comes from a Primary Source (printed copy in my possession).  Do I just put something to that effect in the publication notes, or is there something of a standard of how I should indicate this.  I see no box on the edit page for the magazine issue to check regarding the nature of my source.
 
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−
My apologies for being both long winded and ignorant, but please correct me where I am wrong.  In time I will get past the initial learning curve.
 
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−
[[User:Daffodil11|Daffodil11]] 17:31, 19 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: Welcome to ISFDB!
 
−
: Yep, you got the steps correctly. :) First add the stories - either via import (existing) or Edit Publication (new ones). Then once it is approved:
 
−
:* Do all needed variants - for translations, other names being used, other titles being used and so on
 
−
:* Add the series to all essays that need them
 
−
:* Connect the reviews which did not auto-connect.If the title and author of the review matches a title we have, it WILL autoconnect. If it does not, it needs to be done manually
 
−
: You indicate that you have the book/magazine by either doing a primary verification (open the magazine and look in the left menu for the verification option) or if you would rather not do it until the magazine is complete, add a note in the moderator's note to tell us so we know when processing.
 
−
: You can have import and edit submitted at the same time if you want to (or multiple imports). But you cannot have two edits as they will step on each other toe's.
 
−
: Magazines tend to be the hardest thing to work on in this DB so... yeah, it can be a bit convoluted. Once you do a couple, it makes a lot more sense. So just try it - and if something goes wrong, all is fixable. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:45, 19 January 2022 (EST)
 
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== Best Cover Scan Attributes? ==
 
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I want to upload a new cover scan http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?222057
 
−
Is there a desirable resolution, color depth setting that works well for the purpose, or a target file size that works well?  I looked around the FAQs and other places, did a search, but nothing really bubbled up. {{unsigned|Bccrowe }}
 
−
: Personally, I scan at 300 dpi and keep the image, but upload a reduction to 600 pixels in the longest dimension. I've not really fussed about details like color matching (beyond it appearing roughly correct) since I was doing older books (50's-80's) and I've no guarantee that they even are their original colour, given aging and exposure to sunlight, chemicals and such. ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 12:29, 20 January 2022 (EST)
 
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−
:: The ISFDB Wiki software prevents editors from uploading files which are too large. In addition, [[Help:How to upload images to the ISFDB wiki]] says:
 
−
::* Please be sure that the image is no larger than required, and in any case is less than 600 pixels along its largest dimension, if at all possible. You may wish to crop or rescale the image.
 
−
:: Also, unless the image is in public domain, we have to comply with the copyright laws of the country where the ISFDB servers are located (USA at the moment.) To quote [[Template:Cover Image Data]]:
 
−
::* This resolution is significantly reduced, and could not plausibly be used to make publishable copies of the original.
 
−
:: In many cases the Wiki-imposed limitation on file size takes care of this issue automatically -- you'd need to upload a really big file to get to the "publishable copy" level of fidelity. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 13:14, 20 January 2022 (EST)
 
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−
== Oops! ==
 
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−
I accidently listed the animal fantasy <i>The Gentlest Purr</i> as [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?876885 The Deepest Growl].  Is there any way I can change the title, or do I have to do this listing all over again? [[User:MLB|MLB]] 10:15, 22 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
:You can edit the pub to change the pub title. To change the content title, go to the title record and unmerge it from the others. Then there will be a single record that you can edit to change its title. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 10:22, 22 January 2022 (EST)
 
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−
== Disambiguated Author ==
 
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−
I entered the contents of the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?36993 May 2020 issue of Galaxy's Edge] magazine, and one of the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2975629 stories] entered displayed the warning "Disambiguated Author" because there are two isfdb entries under the name Eric Miller.  So I confirmed that the entry ended up under the correct author [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?158963 Eric Miller] by finding proof on the [http://www.ericmillerwrites.com/ author's website].  Now that I know that the story is correctly connected to its author, do I do anything with that knowledge by noting this somewhere or just leave it as is?
 
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[[User:Daffodil11|Daffodil11]] 15:18, 22 January 2022 (EST)
 
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: You can certainly edit the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2975629 title record] and add that the attribution to the correct "Eric Miller" was confirmed by consulting the author's Web site. Notes and references to external sources are always good :-) [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 16:16, 22 January 2022 (EST)
 
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== William Llewellyn ==
 
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I have noticed the name [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?97285 Llew] appearing as illustrator, 1956-58, for the Ziff-Davis Publishing Company.  At the same time [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?96921 Llewellyn] was a prolific artist for the same company.  Could they be the same person? [[User:MLB|MLB]] 21:10, 23 January 2022 (EST)
 
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: I have since found out that they are the same.  Well, another project to keep me busy in the future. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 22:07, 30 January 2022 (EST)
 
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== Learning the Ropes ==
 
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Hi, folks. I'm very new here. I submitted info about a short story of mine that was published in a magazine called Harpur Palate. JLaTondre wrote back and welcomed me, and said they'd list the US price in a  different way because it's a British publication. But it's not -- it was a student magazine published by the English Department of Binghamton University in Binghamton, New York. I didn't see a way to hit "reply" and say that to JLaTondre, or a way to contact that person by clicking on the name and going to the home page. Is there a way to respond directly to a message, or send someone a new message here? Also, I'm looking at the HelpGettingStarted info, or whatever it is called ... and it tells one how to enter info about a book. I do not see a way to enter info about a magazine -- info dumbed down for a new user like me in the same way. I also had a story in a small British magazine (that one really is from the UK!) called Auslander. It was a horror/SF magazine, but I do not see copies for sale on Amazon. I'm wondering how to submit a picture of the cover art -- do I need to find a color scanner and create a jpg? Should I scan the whole magazine and send it as a pdf, so other writers in it can be included in ISFDB?
 
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Thanks --
 
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Judy
 
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:I've added some info to your record recently; a photo of you, your birthplace, the cover of the Harpur Palate issue you were in (I also added the artist who did the creepy cover and added the $8.83 price), the cover of the 1996 Keen! Science Fiction issue you were in, and a German cover for the 1989 Star Trek novel you wrote. Hope all this helps flesh out your record a bit more. If you could enter the month and day of your birthdate that would be good. Also, don't forget to sign your notes here at the end by clicking the icon above ("Your signature with timestamp"). --[[User:Username|Username]] 10:41, 25 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::::I had to reject [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5206524 your Harpur Palate, Summer 2003 edit]. We do not add covers or cover artists for non-genre magazines. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 19:57, 25 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:: To begin entering a magazine you only have to click 'Add New Magazine' in the left tool bar (under 'Add New Data'). However, your edit will benefit from reading the help screen on [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Screen:NewPub New Pubs] first (and maybe looking into indexed magazines also). Anyway, you'll have to add a not-yet-existing magazine or fanzine first, before it's possible to upload a cover image. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 13:02, 25 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:D'oh! Sorry about that. Somehow, I read that as Birmingham and not Binghamton. I have fixed the {{P|876903|publication record}}. Thank you for letting us know. To respond to a message on your talk page, you can click the "edit" on the far right of the message title on [[User_talk:JudyKlass|your talk page]]. To post a new message to a specific user, you can click on their name in the signature line of the message which will take you to their user page. You then click the "discussion" link at the top of that page to get to the talk page and then click the "+" link at the top of the talk page to start a new discussion. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 19:51, 25 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::::: I figured the cover would have to go; I thought maybe it would slip by, being disturbing and all. The artist, who has no credits on ISFDB, is an interesting guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Hovancsek. I suppose the only way the cover would be acceptable is if it illustrated Klass' story, so if she responds here, maybe she'll let us know her story involves CREEPY MANNIKINS. --[[User:Username|Username]] 20:07, 25 January 2022 (EST)
 
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== Entering the parts of an incomplete serialization ==
 
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The weekly newspaper ''[https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85040613/ Vilas County News]'' began serializing ''[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?913982 Mr. Stranger's Sealed Packet]'' when their issues were 8 pages long, but they only managed to get 7 parts of it printed (ending [https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85040613/1897-05-31/ed-1/seq-8/ somewhere after the beginning of Chapter XI]).
 
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* Should I enter these 7 parts as SERIALs anyway, or should I just add a note to the title page?
 
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* If I should enter the parts, should they be called "Mr. Stranger's Sealed Packet (Part 1 of ?)" with a question mark, or just "Mr. Stranger's Sealed Packet (Part 1)"?
 
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* And as an aside, what about the subtitle—should these be called "Mr. Stranger's Sealed Packet; or, A Voyage to the Planet Mars (Part...)" instead?
 
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Thanks! [[User:Sylvar|Sylvar]] 10:20, 25 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:Yes, they should be entered as serials. If you know how many were planned (for example, it was advertised as a specific number), I would use "(Part 1 of #)". If you do not, then use "(Part 1 of ?)". Either way, I would add notes to the serial title records and the novel title record explaining it was not completed. As for the title, it should be entered as per the magazine. If they used the subtitle, it should be included. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 20:15, 25 January 2022 (EST)
 
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== Connecting a new magazine issue & essay series inconsistencies ==
 
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I created an entry for [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?877461 an issue of Galaxy's Edge magazine] that was not in isfdb (until now I only added content to preexisting issues that had no content listed).  I don't know how the new issue gets attached to the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?36993 series].
 
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What did I do wrong during the initial "Add New Magazine" step, or is this something that is done in a multistep process.  Also, when I get to 2022 issues, what do I do to create a [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2729511 year sub-list] for the magazine?
 
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Also, I am not sure what to do with the name of an essay series that has become inconsistent regarding the use of the articles "A" and "The."  [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?10419 A Scientist's Notebook] written by Gregory Benford spent over a decade as an essay series at F&SF, and from what I can tell from the issues I have, was consistently published as "A Scientist's Notebook."  The series resurfaced at Galaxy's Edge and continued to be published as "A Scientist's Notebook."  Use of the "A" in the series title has become unstable in the past couple of years.  Here is a list of the recent inconsistencies in issues of Galaxy's Edge:
 
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2020 September has "The" on essay page & the Table of Contents (TOC).
 
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2020 November goes back to "A" in both places
 
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2021 January has "The" in the TOC and no reference to the series on the essay page, but it is a reprint from F&SF, so I plan to import it in my next step in creating the issue entry.
 
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2021 March & May both use "A" on the essay pages and TOCs.
 
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2021 July has "The" in the TOC but "A" on the essay page
 
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2021 September has "The" in the TOC but "A" on the essay page
 
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2021 November has "The" on both TOC and essay page.
 
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2022 January has "The" on both TOC and essay page.
 
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So it looks like the editor after Mike Resnick was inconsistent from Sept 2020 to Sept 2021, and is perhaps settling into using "The," although that is uncertain given it has only been 2 consecutive issues using "The."  While I can add notes to point out some of the recent inconsistencies, what should be done if the editor sticks with "The" when the series has years and years under the series name "A Scientist's Notebook?"  And if I am making a change that affects the whole series, when should I decide that the change to "The" is permanent?
 
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A third question was just answered by the previous inquiry.  I will use (part 1 of ?) because the serial is in progress and I don't know how many parts there will be.
 
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[[User:Daffodil11|Daffodil11]] 14:52, 26 January 2022 (EST)
 
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: Document in notes in the issues where it is different and stick all of them in the "A ..." series. Problem solved. Add a note in the series notes as well about the change. :)
 
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: PS: By the way: the two essays with common name in that issue NEED disambiguation ("Fantasy & Technology"  should be "Fantasy & Technology (Galaxy's Edge, January 2021)" and the same for Recommended Books :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:16, 26 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:: The other two questions: it should be "(Part 1 of ?)" - see the capitalization.
 
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:: For the year entry - edit the EDITOR record - [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2977402 this one] to change its title and date (to be 2022-00-00) and to add the series. That's it. Any additional questions - post back please :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:19, 26 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::: PS: And you need to connect the two reviews that did not connect. That happens when the review title is different from the actual title. Open the review and look at the left menu. There is a "Link Review" menu item. Use the ID of the title it reviews. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:20, 26 January 2022 (EST)
 
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== Order of contents appearance ==
 
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The last review in a review column and the beginning of an essay are both on the same page (78), so when I visit the [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?877461 page where the contents are displayed] SOMETIMES the last review is listed after the essay even though the review appears first on the page.  Though I don't suppose it is much of a problem, it looks awkward due to the leading space before "Review."  Is there a way to force this to display in the correct order?  Note (in case either of these is a factor) that I imported the essay after the reviews were in place and I have Concise Listing as my default. [[User:Daffodil11|Daffodil11]] 18:10, 26 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:Yes, you can use piping to do that. See "Sorting" at [[:Template:PubContentFields:Page]] for how it works. Let us know if you have any questions after reading that (as well as answering them, it will help to know if we need to improve the documentation). --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 18:23, 26 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::Thanks, it was reasonably clear.  I just got too lazy to try to find the answer before asking here.  I have found it difficult at times to find answers to questions I have had, resulting in lengthy searches.  And often I know I have read something about a topic before but I can't remember where I read it and it can take some time to find it again.  It has occurred to me that something like an index similar to what one might find in the back of a book might be useful here.  I realize there is a search function, but the results can be frustratingly unhelpful.  I'm not sure if such an index is feasible, or if it would be as helpful as I imagine.  But it is a thought (by someone who has admittedly no experience in the topic). [[User:Daffodil11|Daffodil11]] 19:21, 26 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::: We kinda have [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:Contents a main help page] which is linked from the main [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page wiki page] - usually one of the linked pages will get you to what you are looking for unless you are deep in the weeds somewhere on an interesting problem.
 
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::: A little tip - look at the question marks next to each field on the EditPub/AddPub and other pages. Hover over them for a quick tip. If you click on them, they will get you to the help page for that specific field in more details - and 90% of the help pages you need will be the ones linked that way :) For the contents section (where this thing was located), the question marks are on the first row of them - there is one on the page number, there is one on the title, one on the author and so on.  There is also always a full page help linked at the top of any edit page. Hope that makes sense. Not that we cannot do better of course - and if you think we need to add something to that main page, please share. Also - the links the welcoming moderator posted on your own Talk page in the very first message are curated to give you quick access to the main pages for a lot of help areas.  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:30, 26 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:::: If you want to know areas where I found the help pages in need of improvement, here are two things that I remember spending too much time trying to find/figure out:
 
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::::* How to add a new issue of a magazine (see my help desk post just before this one).  I clicked on the http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:ScreenList and then on the "New Magazine" link.  Nowhere did I find anything about having to edit the Editor Title, as a second step or otherwise.  Additionally, even if I had stumbled my way to that page, the help templates linked through the question marks are so generic as to be of no help in this case.  For instance, Template:TitleFields:Title does not mention that I should use a “Magazine Name - Year” format.  Template:TitleFields:Date mentions nothing about using a ####-00-00 date.  And Template:TitleFields:Series does not even have the word magazine in it.  So eventually I posted my question here and you (Annie) were very helpful.  I suppose I might have eventually figured things out after study of existing entries, but the help system was decidedly unhelpful in this case.  Maybe there are explanations for these somewhere but I was not able to find them.
 
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::::* Checking with other primary verifiers before changing data for a publication that they verified.  I had read something about this while researching how to do my first edit (Galaxy's Edge, January 2020), but it did not apply to anything I was doing at the time.  Then when I got to the July 2020 issue, I noticed that the ebook had been primary verified, but I could not remember what I had read about editing things that alter other primary verified publications.  I checked in Help:Screen:Verify & Help:Screen:EditPub & Help:Getting_Started but could find no mention of this.  Eventually I found discussions regarding this in archived Help Desk entries.  For all I know, this is something that does not apply any more, but my impression is that I am supposed to check with other primary verifiers before changing data and notify other verifiers when adding data.  Am I wrong?  If not, maybe something about this needs to be added to the Help:Screen:EditPub, or maybe it is already there but I just could not find it.
 
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:::: In a related question, what is the proper procedure or proper etiquette regarding checking with the primary verifier?  If, for instance, I post a message on their talk page and I know they are still active (and even notice that they have been active in the days since my post), how long to I wait for a response?  And when said waiting period has elapsed, how do I proceed?  Try to "email this user" or just make the changes or something else?  I certainly don't want to step on toes, particularly as a newbie.
 
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:::: [[User:Daffodil11|Daffodil11]] 21:44, 26 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::::: Will look at the rest in the morning (done for the day - unless someone else posts) but for PVs and waiting time - depends on the change - for changes which remove/change major information - a week and if they do not respond, post on the Moderator board so we can assist. See the [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:FAQ#What_if_I_want_to_make_a_change_in_a_verified_publication_record.3F FAQ page] on that (and other things). For adding information - notify and submit is the usual policy - no need to wait. For typos and housekeeping changes - just the moderator note may be enough but notifying is never a mistake. Email can work but we have issues with some mail servers so some members may not receive them (and mail is not mandatory and you can opt out so if you want to try that as well, do that but don’t rely on it).
 
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::::: PS: Part of your difficulty is because you just started walking and are now competing in a marathon at the Olympics. The magazines can be entertaining (or brutal) - they make a lot more sense in comparison to the rest of the DB and not as a starting point but we will get there - just be patient and don’t hesitate to ask. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 22:18, 26 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:::::: I probably ran into the PV notification stuff on the FAQ page and also in JLaTondre's welcome message on my talk page, but as mentioned, I could not remember where I read it when I wanted to read it again.  Now it seems obvious after you pointed me to both locations.  I just looked in the wrong places, which is why I mentioned the index idea in response to JLaTondre.  I hope I have not come across as complaining about how things work around here.  I have tremendous gratitude for all the work people have put into isfdb and I have no right to complain.  Its just that JLaTondre asked about how documentation could be improved, and I thought I could offer the viewpoint of the ignorant.  And that I most certainly am.  And I feel even more obtuse now, because I just discovered the [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:How_to_add_a_magazine_issue_to_the_magazine%27s_issue_grid How to add a magazine issue to the magazine's issue grid]and [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Help:How_to_link_a_magazine_to_its_wiki_page_and_add_it_to_a_magazine_series How to link a magazine to its wiki page and add it to a magazine series] pages.  I suppose I would have found them sooner if they had been linked to the places I did look.  Maybe that is the only useful input I really have on this topic.  [[User:Daffodil11|Daffodil11]] 00:59, 27 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::::::: That last page is a bit out of date actually - we are migrating stuff out from the wiki and into the DB proper. :) I’ll see what I can do about it later this week. Happens now and again with older projects that get out of sync with current practices. And no worries - it is a big project and getting lost happens even when you had been here for a long time. All feedback is valuable - especially from new editors. Can we make it easier? Probably not - but we may be able to add some links here and there to assist. :) You are more likely to get in trouble for not asking a question than for asking why so don’t sweat it. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 01:12, 27 January 2022 (EST)
 
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== Number line question ==
 
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Hi. I have a publication with 'D 0 9 8' as printer's key [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?877773 here]. I'm assuming this is the eighth printing, but anyone knows what that 'D' means? Thanks! [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 09:19, 27 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:Many times, I've seen that refer to the printer who printed that particular run. It's possible that refers to RR Donnelley, though I often see that one as RRD. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:06, 27 January 2022 (EST)
 
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== "C.S. Friedman" author record ==
 
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Spotted [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?338207 this author record] with an empty bibliography just now - shouldn't it be either varianted to [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?493 the "proper" C. S. Friedman entry] or deleted?  Or is it serving some arcane purpose beyond my understanding? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 18:33, 27 January 2022 (EST)
 
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: The record that created it needs to be fixed. When it looks like that, there is a review somewhere with the Reviewed author using that form so you need to find it via search and fix the record. [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2968119 Fixed] now.  :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:41, 27 January 2022 (EST)
 
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== Title record edit not propagating to publications within ==
 
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I submitted edit [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5208384] to remove the series from a its title. It was approved. However, the publications within have not had their titles updated, even though the tool tip for 'title' indicates that they should. Thoughts? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 20:09, 27 January 2022 (EST)
 
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: Glenn, The tool tip is telling you that any publication which contains this title will be affected. What kind of publication might contain this title? Omnibus and collection immediatedly come to mind. If this novel was in either, you would see the change. Clearly, you were hoping this change would propagate to the underlying publications contained in this title. Sadly, You will have to submit an edit for each publication. [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 21:48, 27 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:: There may be a terminological issue here. When this submission was approved, the title of the '''title record''' was changed from "The Great War: American Front" to "American Front". If you check any of the publication records which contain this title records, e.g. [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?41038 the first edition], you will note that the Contents section now says "3 • American Front • [The Great War] • novel by Harry Turtledove". However, if you examine the first line of the same Web page, you will see that it still says "Publication: The Great War: American Front". So the change did affect every publication which has this '''title record''' in it, but it didn't change the titles of the '''publication records'''. Hope this makes sense. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 21:59, 27 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::: Perhaps if it stated what was going to change in the publication record, it would have been clearer. I reread the tool tip, and thought I could read the linked article for more information about what changed in the publication record, but I couldn't find anything. My guess is the referral is for earlier in the tool tip. --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 23:51, 27 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::: Can I assume that it works the same way for interior art and covers? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 01:41, 28 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:::: What's still is to do, is to change the titles of the single publications: the container title of the novel was changed (you'll see that when you edit one of the publications), but the title of the respective publication the container title appears in wasn't. John's example for a possible OMNIBUS publication is well chosen: if the change of a novel's title ''would'' propagate to the OMNIBUS that one's title would be changed, but is most likely quite different. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 02:30, 28 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:::: Re: your question 'Can I assume that it works the same way for interior art and covers?'; well, no: you usually need edit those titles only once, because they should ''only'' appear inside of publications, not as stand-alone publications / container titles. [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 02:33, 28 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::::: The basic rule is that once created, each element is on its own - cover, title record and a publication record. If you need to change all of them, they need to be updated separately (sometimes possible via a single PubEdit (if used in only one publication), sometimes requiring PubEdit and a few TitleEdits - and that list of updates will need to include any title where the old title was used as part of the name (introductions, interior art and so on). During the AddPub phase, you enter one title and we reuse it for the 2 (or 3 if you have a cover) elements but that is just a behind-the-scenes reusing - we create 2 (or 3) separate elements). Changing one of them later on does not change any of the others. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 10:37, 28 January 2022 (EST)
 
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:::: What criteria is used to have more than one publication use the same cover title record? Is it a side effect of cloning a different publication? Or a merge? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 18:41, 28 January 2022 (EST)
 
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::::: Clone, import of the cover or a merge after a separate record was created. There are two different things to account for when you have a cover:
 
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:::::* The link to the image - that one will be different for each printing/edition (or can be anyway - usually a good idea to be in case there are slight variations and for ISFDB hosted images to ensure that one update does not wipe out the cover on all editions.
 
−
:::::* The COVERART record - this one will be the same for all books that have the same image on the cover and the same language, title and author - if one of these three is different, it will be a variant instead. So if Book A and Book B have the same image on their cover, there will be two different COVERART entries (due to the different title) and we will variant the later to the earlier one. But if the 1998 edition of Book A and the 2020 Edition of the same book uses the same image (regardless if the colors are changed or what kind of writing is there on the cover or if the image is inverted and so on), we merge the COVERART records. See [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2184624 this record] for an example - same image across languages and titles so we varianted it. At the same time all versions of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?650665 this one] stay as one entry despite the change in the cover because the image is the same (even if one of them are inverted and one of them is just part of the image -- ignore the ones that show the Apple+ thingie here - these are using /P/ Amazon images which are ISBN-based and need fixing - they are the same cover as the others - we just have a bad link now).
 
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::::: Let me know if I can assist further. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 19:00, 28 January 2022 (EST)
 
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== Gerin the Fox series ==
 
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The [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?12381 Gerin the Fox series] is numbered with a mixture of the original first two novels in separate and revised combined form. Is there a convention on how this should be recorded? There's also a problem with the later ebook versions that indicate 'Werenight', when almost certainly they should link to 'Werenight (revised)' title record.
 
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My suggestion would be to number the first versions 1.1 and 1.2, and the revised 1, and renumber from that point.  Or is there a better approach? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 19:41, 28 January 2022 (EST)
 
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== Recording translator(s) for translated collections ==
 
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I see that [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2913292 a collection I added a few months ago] is showing up in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/edit/cleanup_report.cgi?239 the "Translations without the Tr Template in Notes" cleanup report].  Naively I'd have thought that for translated collections (or anthologies), the translator notes would only really need to go with the records for the individual shortfiction/essay/etc contents [*] - especially in cases like this one where multiple translators are involved?  If the translator(s) have to go in the collection/anthology note, then you'd have to leave it undefined about which contents were translated by which translators (which seems a bit unhelpful), or explicitly match them up - which could make the note overly complicated, and only duplicates stuff which is (or should be) recorded in the shortfiction/essay records?
 
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I did have a look to see how this was handled in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2012886 the only other translated collection I could think of off the top of my head], but that doesn't have a title note, and looks in any case like it would get cropped off the report due to not being in the first 500 records alphabetically.
 
−
 
 
−
[* - This particular example is somewhat moot, as it doesn't currently have the contents added.  I actually have the UK ebook of this pub, but I've avoided submitting the details as yet, because it looks a bit messy and requiring a fair bit of research e.g. the essays don't have a translator credited, but it's unclear at first glance if these are original to the English publications, or they were translated by the original author (which seems possible as I think he grew up in the US).  I'll get round to doing all that if/when this book escapes from my TBR pile...] [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 09:27, 29 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: It's best I think to put something like Template(diverse hands) or Template(various hands) into the notes, at least that's how I do handle those cases. Christian [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 09:51, 29 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: Thanks - that seems a decent way of addressing the issue. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 11:32, 29 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Amanda Luzzader / A. M. Luzzader ==
 
−
 
 
−
I’ve entered the fiction of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?250765 Amanda Luzzader] onto this site, but I’ve just found out that she has written a whole score of children’s books as [https://www.amazon.com/A-M-Luzzader/e/B0892V1QXR/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_ebooks_1 A. M. Luzzader].  These are not picture books, but text books for 3-8 year-old girls.  Are they eligible for this site? [[User:MLB|MLB]] 23:13, 29 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
:Yes. The only age related restriction we have is that we exclude "Animal books for very young children, i.e. books for preschoolers which depict simple scenes from animal life featuring anthropomorphized animals". Those don't fall into that category so they are eligible. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 09:20, 30 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Potter's Field Anthologies ==
 
−
 
 
−
Should [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/adv_search_results.cgi?USE_1=title_ttype&O_1=exact&TERM_1=ANTHOLOGY&C=AND&USE_2=title_title&O_2=contains&TERM_2=Potter%27s+field&USE_3=title_title&O_3=exact&TERM_3=&USE_4=title_title&O_4=exact&TERM_4=&USE_5=title_title&O_5=exact&TERM_5=&USE_6=title_title&O_6=exact&TERM_6=&USE_7=title_title&O_7=exact&TERM_7=&USE_8=title_title&O_8=exact&TERM_8=&USE_9=title_title&O_9=exact&TERM_9=&USE_10=title_title&O_10=exact&TERM_10=&ORDERBY=title_title&ACTION=query&START=0&TYPE=Title these three] be in a title series? (different editors, different publishers, so surely no pub series, right?) [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 11:09, 31 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: They all have the same subtitle, so I assume that they are in a series. It would be nice to add volumes 1, 2, 3 and 6 as well. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 15:49, 31 January 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: Any suggestion on what the series title should be. 'Potter's Field', or, 'Tales from Unmarked Graves' (I've selected Potter's Field for now)? [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 13:50, 1 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Mike Sirota ==
 
−
 
 
−
I was wondering if [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?1573 Mike Sirota] is an over-the-threshold author, as he has written [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PE34BO4/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i9 Stone Woman: Winema and the Modocs], his lone historical.  Should I list it?  Or just move on? [[User:MLB|MLB]] 22:54, 2 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: My recommendation: don't waste your time entering non-spec fic - at all :) [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 08:37, 3 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:: Well, as you know, that's why the "over-the-threshold" rule was invented.  That's why we list the non-spec fiction of authors like Fredric Brown, Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, Arthur C. Clarke, and others. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 11:32, 3 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: If you add it, it won't be against the rules. I would not add it - simply because I do not see a value in having these in the DB at all (yes, even for our authors) but the consensus and the rule is that we allow them so if you add it, just make sure you mark it as a "non-genre". On the other hand, having complete bibliographies of "our" authors is a good thing (we may be the only ones having them considering how many things we list). So go ahead and add it if you want. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 14:10, 3 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:: As far as I know, Mike Sirota is primarily a genre author, so there should be no issue with adding his one non-SF novel to the database.
 
−
 
 
−
:: Personally, I find these kinds of non-genre additions useful. If we don't include them, then our users won't know whether the "missed" novel(s) is missing because we were not aware of it or because it was non-genre. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 17:14, 3 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
::: An argument may be made that we would want all borderline novels/stories and non-genre horror as well then for the same reason - so it is clear that we have looked at them and determined they are not ours as opposed to never having seen them. But that opens a rather big conversation.
 
−
::: We really need the ability to indicate on a profile if an author is genre/above threshold or not - it is confusing now for almost anyone finding the DB why we would allow some non-genre books but not others. No need for a default value - sometimes we may not know - but when we do, we should be able to set that somewhere (and I know we can use the notes but... we need a template then and having a better indication that a note buried among other notes makes more sense to me. That may also reopen the question on what we consider genre authors, who needs to be above threshold and get these squared away in a better way. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 18:16, 3 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:::: Well, we do have {{FR|860}}, "Add a 'non-genre' field to Author records", which would address this issue. If there is support for making it higher priority, it could be pushed closer to the top of the list. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 19:02, 3 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::::: Talking of priorities made me look for the [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/What%27s_New#Roadmap_2017 current plan] from 2017. Any plans on issuing an update? ../[[User:Holmesd|Doug H]] 19:35, 3 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:::::: We briefly talked about creating a new "road map" last year, but then I got sidetracked with the HTTP/HTTPS migration, which put everything else on hold. At this point our software is HTTPS-ready, but I still need to migrate links to third party sites. Once that's taken care of, we can work on creating a new road map. [[User:Ahasuerus|Ahasuerus]] 10:09, 4 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Possible to move a pub from a parent title record to the child? ==
 
−
 
 
−
I noticed last night that I'd made an error a few months ago when adding [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?866058 the ebook pub] of [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2932298 Swarm Rising] - like the hc pubs, it should be attributed to [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?36481 Steve Cole], rather than the parent author record [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?31120 Stephen Cole].
 
−
 
 
−
My initial thought was to merge the two title records, but this seemed a bit sub-optimal, as I'd then have to manually recreate the one that got dropped so that this title shows up on the Stephen Cole bibliography page, but is attributed to Steve Cole.  However, I couldn't see any way to move a pub from the parent title to the child title (and keeping the now pub-less title record around).  Is there a way to do this, or is doing a title merge and then creating a "stub" parent title the only way to go? [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 11:56, 8 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Remove Title to remove the wrong novel record and Import title to get the correct one in is generally a better idea, plus an edit the publication to fix the author name there. Merge will always work BUT if there was a valid title which belonged to the parent, it will mess it up. Plus any notes, links and so on will need to be transferred up (if they exist) and so on. So instead, work with the records we do have. Not to mention the (admittedly rare) case where this is the only title for the parent and the merge will delete the author record (with all details and all pseudonym connections in it - so you will need to recover those as well)[[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:04, 8 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:: Thanks - just submitted edits for removing the title and importing the Steve Cole one.  Will edit the pub for the author name once those are in place. [[User:ErsatzCulture|ErsatzCulture]] 12:13, 8 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
::: Approved. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:16, 8 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Ken Kelly versus K. W. Kelly ==
 
−
 
 
−
I'm working through the Robert Adams Horseclans Signet titles using my owned copies and have found that the cover art in many of the existing records are credited to "Ken Kelly" even when the only credit is from the "K. W. Kelly" signature on the covers. Shouldn't these be changed to match what's actually there? "K. W. Kelly" is already an alias for "Ken Kelly". Thanks! [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 09:36, 10 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:We record artists as stated in publications. If there's no credit in the book, and we identify the artist from other sources (websites, other books with the same illustration, signature etc), we use the canonical name of the artist, so in this case "Ken Kelly" is correct. --[[User:Willem H.|Willem]] 14:01, 10 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
::Thanks for clarifying. I'll redo my pending submissions but make sure there is an appropriate note as well. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 14:27, 10 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== The War of the Ring ==
 
−
 
 
−
(moved from Bob's discussion page)
 
−
 
 
−
I'm attempting to PV my copy and came across the pub record you added [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?609680] that has the same ISBN and cover (with more intense color values). The pub date on my copy is 2000-09-00, but the record has 2003-09-01 which you added on 2017-03-19. It seems a bit odd to be adding a record for 6 years in the future. Another complication is that my copy is Houghton Mifflin, while the record has Mariner.
 
−
 
 
−
I trying to figure out if I should just add a new record from scratch, or take this one over with much of the data replaced. Thoughts? --[[User:GlennMcG|GlennMcG]] 00:36, 14 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
:Apparently this was a pub automatically added from Amazon back in the days before Annie decided to input all such records.  So the information for this pub was from Amazon in 2017, and I really have no idea how your copy could have the same ISBN.  I don't understand your comment about adding a record for 6 years in the future.  I wonder if your copy isn't the same as the first version of the pub based on the date you quote. I suggest you post your question on the [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Community_Portal Community Portal].  Maybe one of the other moderators can provide some guidance. [[User:Biomassbob|Bob]] 09:07, 14 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:: As a start, 2017 is 14 years after 2003, not 6 years before it - so it was not added 6 years before it existed. :)
 
−
:: Onto the book itself: Chances are that the Amazon.com date was for a reprint/later printing which they later corrected (the current version of it is for a 2000 book). Mariner was an imprint of Houghton Mifflin at the time so it is possible that Amazon did use that on the record at the time. The ISBN now says "William Morrow Paperbacks" in Amazon (which is even more bizarre). But then data for 2000/2003 books in Amazon was loaded later and is known to have major issues. [https://www.worldcat.org/title/treason-of-isengard/oclc/65200870 OCLC] and [https://www.worldcat.org/title/war-of-the-ring/oclc/768196320 OCLC again] agrees with you on Houghton Mifflin pbk. ed. 2000 for the ISBN so edit the record and fix it. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:09, 14 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: I apparently had 20 year math rollover. Thanks. --[[User:GlennMcG|Glenn]] 17:17, 14 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:: Happens. I still refuse to believe that we are in the 2020s ;) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 17:23, 14 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Aimee Thurlo ==
 
−
 
 
−
How do I change Aimee Thurlo’s canonical name to Aimée Thurlo?  This is the name in which that she signs all of her work as. I would go back and then change her works on this site. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 22:23, 16 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:All fixed since all of the works use the accented letter. I changed the name to "Aimeee Thurlo" and then to "[http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?31003 Aimée Thurlo]". ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:27, 21 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
::Thanks. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 02:31, 25 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Digital Audio Downloads ==
 
−
 
 
−
In <b>post 2007</b> digital audio downloads with no ISBN recorded and an Audible-ASIN which is an ISBN10:
 
−
* The preferred entry in the ISBN can should be?
 
−
# ISBN10 (ignore the warning)
 
−
# Convert to ISBN13 and then enter
 
−
Thanks, [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 11:59, 17 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Convert to 13 - or someone else will need to edit after you to fix that :) Our field will show both of them anyway - so we show the proper format for the time. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:02, 17 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Brian W. Aldiss, the short fiction "Hothouse" and the novel Hothouse ==
 
−
 
 
−
The 1962 Hugo for Short Fiction went to "Hothouse" by Brian W. Aldiss (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?41305). That story was later incorporated into his novel, Hothouse (or The Long Afternoon of Earth), which is where the current iSFdb Hugo award is being pointed (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?186583). Can someone correct that?  [[User:Gengelcox|Gengelcox]] 13:42, 17 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:I think that may not be correct. According to [http://www.thehugoawards.org/hugo-history/1962-hugo-awards/ theugoawards.org], that award was for the whole series, not just the one story.  And if I understand correctly, the ''Hothouse'' "novel" of 1962 is the collection of the five stories in the series.  So I think having the award record linked to the novel is the best representation of what the award was granted for.  I don't believe there is a way to link it to the series record.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 08:41, 19 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
::There should be a note on the award record explaining that though. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 14:48, 19 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:::I think an explanatory note would be helpful, otherwise it seems strange that a "Short Fiction" award went to a novel. [[User:Gengelcox|Gengelcox]] 12:56, 22 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Same author/artist? ==
 
−
 
 
−
I stumbled across this. Are [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?245340 Jan S. Gephardt] and [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?195707 Jan Sherrell Gephardt] the same person? If they are, I'm not sure which should be the cannonical name but they should be linked. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 09:01, 21 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:They may very well be. The content for both overlap in the right years. Jan Sherrell Gephardt has more content, so I'd go with that as the canonical name. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:22, 21 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
::Alias creation submitted. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 15:09, 21 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Space Relations title problem ==
 
−
 
 
−
Based on a title note in [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?23107 here], my copy of the Fawcett Crest pb edition [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?31444 here] and a WorldCat search, I think the cannonical title needs to be changed to "Space Relations: A Slightly Gothic Interplanetary Tale" as well as at least that of the non-PVd Charterhouse edition (and possibly all of the pubs). I hesitate to create a potentially false variant when I change the Fawcett Crest edition record and the Charterhouse edition record. Since the Charterhouse edition is the oldest pub, the variant would be for the short form "Space Relations". Suggestions? [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 09:20, 22 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Watts duplicates ==
 
−
 
 
−
We have both George Frederick Watts (1817-1904) [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?180196] and George Frederic Watts (1817-1904) [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?337301]. Can someone merge? <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Gengelcox|Gengelcox]] ([[User talk:Gengelcox|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gengelcox|contribs]]) .</small> 10:37, 23 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:I'll take care of it. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 12:44, 23 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
::All fixed and at [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?337301 this entry]. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]]</small> 13:15, 23 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== About The Authors ==
 
−
 
 
−
Hello! New here. If there is an About The Authors section in the back of a given anthology, listing the bios of the included contributors, do I need to record this?  Thank you. [[User:Canuckscribe|Canuckscribe]] 16:35, 24 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: Depends on how long the item is. If it is a substantial essay (a page or 3 per author), you can record is an essay. But if it is the usual 1-2 paragraphs per author, just add a note in the publication notes. See the [http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/ISFDB:Policy#Contents_included_with_exceptions "About the Author" and other biographical sketches] bullet point here. For an example on how to add to the notes only, see [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?875336 this book] for an example. You can use your own wording of course. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:49, 24 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
Hi there. I went and edited a Pub Note, but now it appears that my new note is there in addition to the original Pub Note, which was not my intention. My note appears as a duplication with some edits. Is there a way to prevent this duplication? Many thanks. [[User:Canuckscribe|Canuckscribe]] 16:46, 24 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
: It is a single field. When editing it, you need to add/remove whatever pieces you need added/removed (just adding the new contents WILL replace the whole note, not just append to it for example). If you share which publication that happened in, someone can check and see what happened exactly there. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:49, 24 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
−
: PS: A housekeeping item: when adding a new question, instead of pressing "Edit", press the plus sign next to the edit link. That will allow you to add a title and will separate the question :) And then when you are answering to an existing topic, use the edit link next to it, not the overall one at the top. That way the History will show which thread you are responding to so we do not need to hunt down where the latest update is :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:49, 24 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== I have a question. ==
 
−
 
 
−
I have a question that I’ve been meaning to ask for a while.  What do you do when a book has multiple covers but the same publishing date?  For example, there’s [https://www.amazon.com/Traitors-Code-Freelancer-Obsidian-Rim/dp/1908340274/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1645766890&sr=1-1 this book] and [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45878500-traitor-s-code?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=qm3KNsu7bg&rank=1 this book].  Now I think that [https://www.amazon.com/Traitors-Code-Freelancer-Obsidian-Rim/dp/1908340274/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1645766890&sr=1-1 this one] is the later edition, as the mega-series is not listed on the cover, but, suspicions are not facts.  Do I list them both? I've seen this a lot. [[User:MLB|MLB]] 02:30, 25 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
: [[ISFDB:Help_desk/archives/archive_18#Same_printing.2C_different_cover|Past advice]] (and precedent) has been to make different records if the artwork differs, with the exception being for those differing only in color.  I recommend a cross-reference note about it in each set of pub notes.  If the artist is known and the same, then I also recommend cross-reference notes in the title notes for each COVERART record, once created.  --[[User:MartyD|MartyD]] 07:32, 28 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:: I agree with the separate record. One more note though: if there is a suspicion, especially around ebooks but also on reprints, that the sources are showing the date of a first/earlier edition and the cover cannot belong to it - the new Foundation series  being advertised on a 2003 ebook cover for example - (Amazon often shows the first ebook date even when they change the covers; Goodreads is usually good for untangling those for the last 10 years or so if they have both covers), I'd set the date as 0000-00-00 to the suspicious book, document the source date in the notes, explain the issue and leave it at that). No point adding incorrect data which is physically impossible just because another site says so. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:47, 28 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Burly Tales ==
 
−
Hi there. There are two entry for Burly Tales: Fairy Tales for the Hirsute and Hefty Gay Man, Publication Record # 882461, which I recently updated, but as they said in Highlander, there should be only one.
 
−
The other is Title Record # 2964877, which is for the ebook.
 
−
How do we make it one entry for this title? Many thanks! [[User:Canuckscribe|Canuckscribe]] 13:53, 27 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
:Thanks for finding this doublette: I'll merge the two title records (2964877 & 2988934). [[User:Stonecreek|Stonecreek]] 14:57, 27 February 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Uploading an author picture ==
 
−
 
 
−
Anyone knows what I'm doing wrong [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5248407 here]? (I'm getting a Yellow warning)... [[User:MagicUnk|MagicUnk]] 04:46, 3 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
: Known issue -as we are using the same code for authors and pubs. Ignore that specific one for authors. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:44, 3 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Translation question and magazines ==
 
−
 
 
−
I'm a techno-dummy and have a bad history when it comes to entering data into other folks databases. Is there a way for me to submit information on a translation of one of my published works, or should I bite the bullet and make the addition myself?
 
−
For the record, the original work is "The Wrong Refrigerator," published in Asimov's, September/October 2018. The Chinese translation was published in the 2020/09 issue of Science Fiction World.
 
−
Also, do you track SFF adjacent publications? I recently became the staff interviewer for Galaxy's Edge magazine. To date, they have published my interviews with Seanan McGuire (July/August 2021), Jonathan Maberry (September/October 2021), Charlaine Harris (November/December 2021), and John Scalzi (in two parts: January/February 2022 and March/April 2022). My interview with Martha Wells will appear in the May/June 2022 issue. Thanks! {{unsigned|Jmward14}}
 
−
: Galaxy's Edge is indeed in the DB ([http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?36993 here]) and when we add our genre magazines, we index everything inside. But we are a bit (a lot really) behind on this one so if you want to learn how to add/update magazines and would like to update all our records while adding your interviews, that will be a great way to learn how the DB works. If not, someone will need to get around to it at some point - it is on one of my lists to do but... there are a lot of things there. If you decide to try, do let me know and I will get you some initial steps and some reading to do -- and we can work on that.
 
−
: About the translation - you can try if your Chinese is good enough or you feel comfortable enough to add books and magazines in it. We don't have a Chinese editor who shows up regularly enough but if you have some sources about the magazine where it got published and what title it went under (and how your name looked in Chinese), I can try to assist. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:07, 5 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Fixing cover art title problem ==
 
−
 
 
−
After the pub record for [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?297675] was fixed by Dirk, I noticed that the cover title needed to be fixed as well. When I pulled up [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1851761] to change the title to match the pub, I found that there are five additional non-related pubs showing for this title. I have no clue as to how to fix this mess. Can someone help? Thanks! [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 12:59, 6 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
:There is only one pub under this title. The rest are all under variants. There is a "Do not display variants or translations" above the publication list that you can click so that it shows only the pubs containing the parent title record. --&nbsp;[[User:JLaTondre|JLaTondre]] ([[User talk:JLaTondre#top|talk]]) 13:42, 6 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
::OK. I'll fix the title. [[User:Philfreund|Phil]] 13:52, 6 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Award issue: Neil Gaiman's "Snow, Glass, Apples" ==
 
−
 
 
−
The entry for the original short story published in 1995 is here http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?40561.  This story was converted into a graphic novel, which won the 2019 Stoker. To me, the short story is a different beast than the graphic novel (as in the Chaykin graphic adaptation of The Stars My Destination), but perhaps this choice was made here because most of the text exists in the graphic novel version, rather than just being an adaptation?  -[[User:Gengelcox|Gengelcox]] 12:05, 8 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
: The root of the problem is that the graphic version and the text version were merged at some point - which should not have happened because the text is different as far as I remember. Let me look into this and see what we need to split and move around. We are not well set for GN awards but the GN text is usually different from the pure story so they usually will have two separate titles (and a ton of notes explaining why). If they were exactly the same text, then we will keep them together with a note on the award on what exactly won the award. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 12:10, 8 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
 
 
−
== Magazine or Anthology? ==
 
−
 
 
−
I have been working on the magazine [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/seriesgrid.cgi?33216 Not One of Us]. In addition to their regular issues, they produced a 'special publication'. It was intermittent at first, but yearly from 2002 - 2020. The regular issues were 52-page octavos (occasionally up to 56) priced at $4.50. [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?603712 Example]. The specials were titled, 32-page octavos, priced at $3.50. [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?603902 Example]. Four issues were entered as magazines and four as anthologies. I have added seven issues as magazines and converted the four anthologies to magazines. One anthology title had a Locus magazine review, so I scanned the Locus Index. There is no listing for any of the 12 specials between 1987 and 2004. However, the three issues between 2005 and 2007 are indexed. Before I add any more, I would like a second opinion. Magazine or anthology? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 12:01, 9 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
: I have a few of those (cannot get to them now as they are in Europe) - I would call them magazines but it can go either way (although if they are anthologies, they will be ph and not octavo as format (as they are stapled and octavo is not a book format) and if they are magazines, they need a big of renaming). As long as we are consistent and the single entries follow the rules of the chosen format, either way works for these.  [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 13:44, 9 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
:: Annie, thanks for the quick response. Are you referring to the "title", "date" format required for magazine titles? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 14:54, 9 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
::: Yes and how we count pages technically (covers included for magazines even if we don't always do that for modern/POD magazines...) and so on. As these are stories only in these (no columns and letters and so on), it can go either way technically - as long as we are consistent and apply the correct rules. But they got distributed as magazines, not as books so there is that. :) [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 15:30, 9 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
:::: I'll stick with magazines. I will have to change the one review to an essay since the title record is rolled up into the year. Hopefully none of the three PV's will object. Is this considered housekeeping? [[User:Scifibones|<b>John</b> <small>Scifibones</small>]] 16:24, 9 March 2022 (EST)
 
−
::::: Mostly yes but I'd still drop a note on their pages though and not rely on just the "changed PV notifications" for active PVs - just because it does change the contents of their verified. [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 16:33, 9 March 2022 (EST)
 

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Publisher information

● I need to know if I’m doing this right. While updating the late author Gary Brandner’s page I entered this edition. I would like to know if I entered the publisher correctly. Was the publisher iUniverse, Backinprint.com, iUniverse / Backinprint.com, etc.? MLB 19:39, 1 May 2022 (EDT)

One person's not particularly educated opinion: From this archived backinprint.com page, it sounds to me like iUniverse is technically the publisher: they provided the electronic source to Backinprint.com; they paid the royalties to the authors; authors granted the publication rights to them. So I think Backinprint.com would be more like an imprint, in which case the names you used should be swapped around (our format is Imprint / Publisher) to be "Backinprint.com / iUniverse". --MartyD 09:57, 4 May 2022 (EDT)
Okay. MLB 02:53, 5 May 2022 (EDT)

Question on Printer's key

I am new here so I am not sure if this information is somewhere (searched but couldn't find) or has been answered but... Looking at 'Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone' (Publication Record # 215741), the Notes has:

30th printing. Printing line goes 35 34 33 32 31 30 9/9 0/0 01 02 Assuming that means this is from 2002.

The record has the date as 2002-00-00.

The way I read the date part of the printing line is this is a 1999 publication date.

Which should it be? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stealth DBA (talk • contribs) . 15:31, 2 May 2022 (EDT)

The publisher, Scholastic, uses an uncommon "printer's key" system. To quote this Web page:
  • 7 8 9 0/0 . . .would indicate 1997
  • 8 9 0/0 . . .is 1998
  • 9 0/0 . . .is 1999, etc.
In other words, your hypothesis was correct and the publication year is 1999. Also see this ISFDB publication record for the printer's key of the first (1998) printing of this edition, which uses "8 9/9 0/0 01 02". Ahasuerus 10:34, 3 May 2022 (EDT)
P.S. I have updated Template:PublicationFields:PubNote to link to this resource. Ahasuerus 10:40, 3 May 2022 (EDT)
Although it's Scholastic-specific, what do you (or does everyone) think about also including this in that list? --MartyD 09:42, 4 May 2022 (EDT)
Given the growing number of links to third party Web pages, we may want to create a new Help template for "Number Line/Printer's Key". It would include a more in-depth explanation of the concept as well as a list of external links. Ahasuerus 12:46, 4 May 2022 (EDT)

The Book of the SubGenius

If I were to add it, what would it be? I want to call it nonfiction. If you don't know what it is, you can check it out here. --Rosab618 21:42, 5 May 2022 (EDT)

I would enter it as fiction. It's fictional non-fiction, which is entered as fiction. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:12, 6 May 2022 (EDT)

Archiving

Is there an optimum page size for talk page archives? I planned to move approximately 220,000. After seeing the warning, I cut that in half to 108,000. That seems small. I want to get the sizing correct and stay consistent as I add pages.John Scifibones 20:13, 7 May 2022 (EDT)

It is usually most convenient to go by some easy-to-understand/easy-to-remember period size, rather than worrying about page size. This MediaWiki software edition is very old, and some of its concepts of what might result in poor performance are no longer quite in tune with the state of modern hardware and browsers. Something like annual is a good place to start. If that looks way too big, then semiannual. Or if it looks very small, then biennial might be better. --MartyD 11:01, 8 May 2022 (EDT)
Thanks for the clarification, John Scifibones 12:18, 8 May 2022 (EDT)
Yeah, just ignore that warning. It's from a decade-old version of the software. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:02, 9 May 2022 (EDT)
The warning is somewhat valid only for very old browsers which had issues with long POSTs. As most people do not use them anymore and most edits are in a thread and not using a full page edit, the warning is really superfluous but is still there for the unlikely case when you somehow have a functioning browser which has the issue and you are doing a full edit. As long as you can see all of the moved ones into the archive, you are fine - warnings or not. Annie 13:18, 9 May 2022 (EDT)

Changing Author/artist name

Artist Libby Vanderploeg https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?295299 should actually be VanderPloeg I have become convinced; the two NYTimes credits were in uppercase, and I don't know where "These Witches Don't Burn" credit came from, but https://www.isabelsterling.com/press-kit> says VanderPloeg. However when I try to change the name in the publication pages,it defaults back to saving it as Vanderploeg. I think somebody needs to change the name on the author page. Thanks. gzuckier 00:51, 10 May 2022 (EDT)

Agreed & changed (indeed, on the author page). Also added a link to her website. Thanks, --Willem 03:54, 10 May 2022 (EDT)

How do chapbooks work?

After creating a chapbook, do I turn the contents into SHORTFICTION? How do I get it to show up as both a chapbook and shortfiction, like You Better Come Home with Me by John Lawson (I)?--Rosab618 06:49, 15 May 2022 (EDT)

Think of chapbooks as collections limited to one work of fiction (shortfiction, poem, or serial). The content title record should have the same name as the chapbook container and publication title. Here is the relevant help section. Related information (length, series, reviews, awards, etc) are entered in or attached to the content title record, not the chapbook container.
A couple comments re: Derek the Dust Particle.
  • Since the short story 'Derek the Dust Particle' does not exist, enter it using edit publication.
  • The juvenile flag should be set for both the container title and the new short story title.
  • Worldcat claims this is #1 in the publication series
  • Double check the format of your price
Hope this help. John Scifibones 08:46, 15 May 2022 (EDT)
I'm still confused. I tried changing it into short fiction before, but then it didn't show up as a chapbook on the author's page. Should it show up as a chapbook, as well as short fiction? Is creating chapbooks a two-step process (creating it, then turning the contents into short fiction)?
And what do you mean about the format of the price? —Rosab618 13:06, 15 May 2022 (EDT)
I did the first two steps on the list for you. I created the content title step 1. Then I set the juvenile flags step 2a & step 2b. All could have been done in your original submission except setting the flag on the content title. It's not visible in the new pub screen. It is a two step process if you are importing an existing content title. Is it clearer after seeing what I did? John Scifibones 14:22, 15 May 2022 (EDT)
Yes. Your actions showed me, not your words. --Rosab618 15:40, 15 May 2022 (EDT)

How to add entries for short stories that are part of a magazine issue

I am completely stumped, so any help/pointers would be appreciated.

I noticed that Charles S. Wolfe has a number of short stories published in Electrical Experimenter (and Science and Invention) which are missing from the database, so I wanted to add them. After some digging around, it looks like the magazine issues are missing, so I think I need to start there, but how?

One specific example: Electrical Experimenter exists - check Issue from October 1920 does not - need to add it, but I cannot figure out how to do this Story "Loaded Line" by Charles S. Wolfe (and Electric Shoes by J. Mac-Richard) need to be added to that issue - again,I can't figure out how. —The preceding unsigned comment added by Kkz (talk • contribs) 22:07, 15 May 2022

EDIT: OK, further digging and I see I can "Add New Magazine", and the stories as part of that. But how do I connect it to the over-arching "Electrical Experimenter 1920" group? Or is that automatic when I do Add from that page? —The preceding unsigned comment added by Kkz (talk • contribs) 22:14, 15 May 2022

Hi, and welcome. To do that, you would enter the October 1920 issue first, using Add New Magazine as you discovered. Note that this is a non-genre magazine, so there are some special standards for how it should be entered. See Help:Entering_non-genre_periodicals for how to do that. Once that submission has been accepted, a second submission is needed to merge the October 1920 EDITOR record that will be created into the existing Electrical Experimenter - 1920 "group" (which is really just a single EDITOR record used to represent 1920). Feel free to try -- submissions are moderated, so you cannot do any harm. The moderator processing the submission will help address anything that is not as it should be. --MartyD 07:27, 16 May 2022 (EDT)

Rotating Covers

So somehow I never noticed when editing an image to be uploaded to the Wiki that you can rotate it in addition to shrinking dimensions to 600 or less. I made an initial try with a cover I added from Amazon some time ago, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5321346, and while it's nice that the cover is now easy to see while still showing info on the spine it's clearly smaller. So is it common practice to add imperfect images from other sites because they're bigger, or rotate them to face forward but make them smaller and necessitate uploading to the Wiki? --Username 11:44, 19 May 2022 (EDT)

Rotating (and skewing) covers can be a pain if you don't have the right tools. I approved your change, but then fixed the perspective of the cover so it was straight on. You may have to force a refresh to see the updated cover image. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:35, 19 May 2022 (EDT)
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5325072; I made an edit adding page #'s from FantLab and replaced the cover, but Amazon's cover, which doesn't seem to exist on current Amazon anymore except as a tiny measured photo incorrectly added to the 2017 Shadow edition, is bigger and framed better. While trying to find a bigger one to upload to head off the usual grousing about unnecessarily replacing a cover image I tried the shadowpublishing.net page but just got a Wix message, and the archived page has a broken image, although with a little searching you can get the 2017 Shadow cover, which is totally different (and not on ISFDB). I finally found what I think is the only photo online that shows the spine clearly, but the photo is badly done, as can be seen at the link above. So my question is, can you zoom it up so cover is clear while still showing the full spine? --Username 13:55, 23 May 2022 (EDT)
We generally only include the spine (and the back cover) if it includes part of the front cover image. In this case, it's just a plain color, so there's really no reason to include it. It would violate fair use. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:59, 23 May 2022 (EDT)
Boy, in that case I hope nobody ever notices the MANY cover images I've entered which show the spine. When this edit is finally approved I'll restore the Amazon image, although it's still weird that the only place it seems to exist now is as a tiny photo incorrectly on the 2017 edition's Amazon page. --Username 19:20, 23 May 2022 (EDT)
Well, now you know, and knowing is half the battle (as they say). In the future, unless the cover image wraps around onto the spine or the spine and the back cover, please avoid adding images with the spine. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 21:13, 23 May 2022 (EDT)
Did some work on this a while back, https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?34769, and today discovered the title, publisher and cover artist were wrong! I fixed those (cover artist as "Wayne Miller" needs to be merged after approval so it's as by M. Wayne Miller, I suppose) but this, [1], is the only online photo I can find that shows the full cover art. Too small now, but is there a way to crop out the book itself and enlarge the dustjacket so it can be uploaded? --Username 14:02, 27 May 2022 (EDT)

Foreign language serialized webnovel, published for the first time in book form as English translation?

I've been running into this situation more often with English translations of Japanese and Korean webnovels, and I'm not sure how to handle it on ISFDB.

So here's one example: the Japanese webnovel 竜の番のキノコ姫　～運命だと婚約破棄されたら、キノコの変態がやってきました～ / Ryuu no Ban no Kinoko Hime - Unmeita Dato Konyaku Hakisaretara, Kinoko no Hentai ga Yattekimashita was first published/serialized in 2020 on the prominent free Japanese webnovel site Syosetu. The original webnovel has NOT been published/collected into book form yet in Japanese. Now in 2022, the webnovel is being translated into English and published in multi-volume book form, with the first English volume released as The Dragon's Soulmate is a Mushroom Princess! Vol.1 (unknown number of the Japanese serial chapters that are being collected in each English book).

So how does this need to be added/indicated/varianted on ISFDB? Are the English volumes a series or a split novel? The Help:How to connect serials to titles page seems to suggest making the serialized work a variant of the novel title, but how can that be done while also making the English novel title a variant as a translation? Can the Japanese serial novel even be added as a publication since Syosetu is a free website? And other such questions, etc. Morebooks 11:34, 21 May 2022 (EDT)

Off the top of my head, other foreign-language serial webnovels that were published in translated English book form before being published in book form in their original languages: The Werewolf Count and the Trickster Tailor, Under the Oak Tree, and Beast Blood. Under the Oak Tree is also being serialized in English translation chapters on Webnovel.com, but I've no idea if that counts as a SFWA-qualifying market for ISFDB publication purposes. Morebooks 11:56, 21 May 2022 (EDT)
As per ISFDB:Policy#Rules_of_Acquisition, online serializations do not count as "being published" for ISFDB purposes unless they have been shortlisted for a major award or published by a SFWA-eligible market.
I have repeatedly run into this issue while working on Cross Infinite World. Apparently, the way they run their business is that they contact Japanese authors of online serials which haven't been published as a book, buy translation rights and publish the work in the US.
As far as I can tell the rules-compliant way to enter these kinds of books is to do what we did with this author: Enter the translated book as we would enter any other book, then turn it into a variant title of an "8888-00-00" (i.e. unpublished) Japanese novel. Any information about online serialization can be added to the parent title record as a note.
Personally, I am not thrilled about this approach, but that's what the rules appear to require at this time. Ahasuerus 21:51, 22 May 2022 (EDT)

Currency--Iranian Rial

On this entry I couldn't enter the actual symbol for Iranian Rial--﷼--because, Persian being a right-to-left language, the software won't let it be entered before the figures. I kept getting ﷼185,000. So I used "IRs 185,000", with the English translation of the symbol, since we don't use the currency codes (in this case IRR). I explained it in the Pub Note. The Iranian Rial isn't on the List of Currency Symbols help page. Is this the way to go with it, or is there a correction? When that's sorted out, the rial can be included on that list. (I see another book on the publisher's website that I want to enter.) MOHearn 09:23, 22 May 2022 (EDT)

Curious. Let me see what I can do at the software level. Ahasuerus 21:56, 22 May 2022 (EDT)
I have tried a few things, but nothing seemed to work to get "﷼" to display to the left of the numeric value. It looks like we'll have to use "IRs" for now. We'll need to keep this in mind when implementing FR 1158, "Allow multiple prices per publication". Ahasuerus 22:21, 22 May 2022 (EDT)

Thanks for looking into it. I'll stick with "IRs," then. MOHearn 07:19, 23 May 2022 (EDT)

A Sending of Dragons

For this edition of this Jane Yolen book, secondary sources disagree about the number of pages. WorldCat and Reginald3 say 184 p.; Locus and Amazon say 256. What should be done? --Rosab618 23:35, 23 May 2022 (EDT)

It looks like it's done correctly. It has notes that explain the discrepancy. Until someone gets a copy of that specific edition, we don't have a way to check to make sure. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:12, 24 May 2022 (EDT)
Should it be marked "verified" by any of those sources? --Rosab618 14:50, 25 May 2022 (EDT)
As Secondary verifications: yes. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:27, 25 May 2022 (EDT)
And even after we have a copy, a note explaining the page numbers discrepancy should stay. It happens a lot :) Annie 15:18, 27 May 2022 (EDT)

Stories by John Wyndham, adapted for younger readers

How should "Meteor: Short Stories" be entered? It's a collection of short stories by Wyndham, adapted by Patrick Nobes for children. How should the stories be entered? As by both? --Rosab618 14:55, 25 May 2022 (EDT)

Yes, they should be entered as by both. Make sure each story has a note on it explaining it's an edited version of the original story, for children. That way, people won't mistakenly try to variant them since they are different versions (and likely different lengths) than the originals. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:26, 25 May 2022 (EDT)
Thank you. --Rosab618 12:06, 26 May 2022 (EDT)

Turning a novel into a collection

I'm trying to turn The Monster of the Lagoon into a collection, with a novella and a novelette. How do I do this? --Rosab618 03:55, 27 May 2022 (EDT)

Edit the publication. Change the type to collection and then add a new title record from the type collection in the contents section - this will become the reference title of the book (this title is created automatically when you create a new collection but NOT on a conversion/edit as at this point we assume the reference title is there - so you need to make it yourself). Let me know if you want me to do it so you can look at my update or if you want to try yourself. Annie 15:17, 27 May 2022 (EDT)
Thanks! I thought I tried that yesterday and it didn't work, but today it did. ----Rosab618 17:17, 27 May 2022 (EDT)
You probably forgot to change the pub type or picked chapbook by mistake or something like tat - the changes need to go together - the publication won't save otherwise. It is one of the checks that make sure that the publication looks ok. :) Annie 18:13, 27 May 2022 (EDT)
I don't think so, but you never know. --Rosab618 12:29, 28 May 2022 (EDT)

Adding a cover image

I'm trying to upload an image. It's within the size limit and it's a jpeg, but every time I try to upload it, I'm told that it's too big. Can anyone explain the problem? --Rosab618 03:16, 31 May 2022 (EDT)

On the image page I get "BLNKCRDJML1977.jpg‎ (file size: 90 KB, MIME type: image/jp2)" at the top, followed by a warning "This file may contain malicious code, by executing it your system may be compromised".
Even though the extension is .jpg, the file seems to be .jp2 I guess the software can't handle this. --Willem 06:10, 31 May 2022 (EDT)
There were definitely some errors in the file. I've fixed them and uploaded the fixed version: here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:05, 31 May 2022 (EDT)
Thank you, but that's not the image I was trying to upload. I have a much bigger, clearer one. I can't figure it out. --Rosab618 00:07, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
There are two size limits:
  1. Diminsions - 600px max is an ISFDB convention and is not enforced by the software.
  2. File Size - there is also a maximum file size, this is enforced by the software.
It sounds like you are hitting the second one. You will need to edit the picture to reduce the resolution. Images should be only of sufficient resolution to identify the cover. They should not be high-res or otherwise allow a nice printing to made of them. ISFDB uses cover images under US copyright's "fair use" doctrine and anything too large violates that. -- JLaTondre (talk) 07:39, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
It's not too large—361 x 598 pixels. How do I reduce the resolution/file size? --Rosab618 10:16, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
As I said, there are two sizes. You are over the second. How to reduce it depends on your image editing software. You will need to check the help or Google instructions for whatever program you use. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:13, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
Where did you get the image? If you can point me to it, I'll be happy to make it the right size (file and dimensions) and upload it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:35, 1 June 2022 (EDT)
Thank you! I think it's this one, but I had cropped it nicely. Oh well. Thanks for your help! --Rosab618 20:21, 4 June 2022 (EDT)
It looks like that's the same as the one I added, but cropped slightly. You can see the same scuffing and reflections on it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:35, 7 June 2022 (EDT)
Thank you!--Rosab618 22:00, 11 June 2022 (EDT)

Hardwired: The Sourcebook

Can I add this book, by Walter Jon Williams? It's a supplement to a role-playing game, apparently. --Rosab618 22:27, 6 June 2022 (EDT)

Despite what the cover says, it's likely not written by Williams. There's likely a team of people who wrote the content in the book. Unless it has short fiction parts in it (like this one, for example), it shouldn't be added. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:38, 7 June 2022 (EDT)
I found a downloadable PDF of this sourcebook. Credits page state the author is Walter Jon Williams "with supplimental material by Mike Pondsmith" and "Netrunning suppliment by Pati Nagle" the copyright to R. Talsorian Games, Inc. is dated 1989. --Mavmaramis 02:04, 19 June 2022 (EDT)
What does it say on the title page? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:38, 20 June 2022 (EDT)
There is no title page - the copyright page is basically the title page, copyright and credits rolled into one - it's the first page after the cover and states "by Walter John Williams" --Mavmaramis 14:54, 21 June 2022 (EDT)

Strike Fighters, by Tom Willard

Yea or nay: do you think this series belongs on the db? It's in Reginald3.--Rosab618 23:06, 11 June 2022 (EDT)

Does anyone have an opinion? --Rosab618 16:58, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
The ninth book in the series, Death Squad, apparently has at least one airship in it, which would possibly make it science fiction. Not sure about any of the others. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:23, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
"It is not a balloon! It is an air ship! Balloons are for kiddiewinks!"
But what is the difference between an airship and a zeppelin?--Rosab618 21:08, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
Depends on how it's defined in the book. A zeppelin is a type of airship. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:38, 16 June 2022 (EDT)

Adding Open Library cover

I'm trying to add the cover here to the book's page, but how do I do it? --Rosab618 04:43, 12 June 2022 (EDT)

I'd do it by (right-)clicking on the image, save it somewhere and then upload it. Christian Stonecreek 08:52, 12 June 2022 (EDT)
But there's a way to just use the url. It has to be the right url, though. Which? --Rosab618 12:00, 12 June 2022 (EDT)
Not for this OL record. OL is linking to an image from archive.org which is not on our permitted list. -- JLaTondre (talk) 12:10, 12 June 2022 (EDT)

Page count rules: The Autumn Castle

While PVing The Autumn Castle I came across notes that seem to imply the rules for entering the page count is different than how I read the rules. The book has numbered pages up to 552, and does indeed include an excerpt. Has this changed over time? Should I submit an edit? (I haven't had much luck getting responses from Chavey recently). --Glenn 01:29, 13 June 2022 (EDT)

If I remember correctly the rules were just interpreted differently: in 2010 it was not usual to include excerpts (but allowed), today excerpts are included almost every time. Christian Stonecreek 02:07, 13 June 2022 (EDT)
The last numbered page should be used. See the first row in the table here. As a nice compromise to capture the spirit of what the other PVer wanted, if you add the excerpt as content, with the page number where it starts, the page count for the novel will be implied quite clearly. --MartyD 10:45, 13 June 2022 (EDT)

Alternate versions - forking series

Tamara Siler Jones (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?28698) published three novels in a series.

Years later, as Tambo Jones, she published versions of the same books, but broken into installments and forked. The first two books were broken into a total of 11 installments - one common installment to launch the series, and then five more installments in each branch of the series. The 'Red' Series is the original first two novels broken into installments. The 'Blue' series is a new, alternate branch. The Blue series continues into a third book (three more installments), while the Red series forks again, for two versions of the original third book (a Red version and an Orange version). A graphic that's much easier to follow is here: http://www.tambojones.com/2020/12/19/publishing-update/

The original novels are in ISFDB. The branched installments are not. My question: how should they be entered? 1. I've see an FAQ that for a novel broken into pieces, each piece should be entered as a novel. 2. I've seen info on how to handle alternate author names or book titles. 3. I have not see how to handle fully alternate versions (not just minor changes, but a new branch entirely). This is somewhat similar to Orson Scott Card's Ender/Bean (Shadow) split, but there the split storylines are consistent. Here, I believe they are mutually exclusive. Jones has provided different series names, but there's still the problem that, for example, the first installment is part one of two different series (three, if you count in the second fork).

I'm not sure I'm the person to enter all this, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling, since I think the writing in the books (original novels, at least) is excellent. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Evil Overlord (talk • contribs) . 09:21, 19 June 2022 (EDT)

Apologies for the delay in getting you feedback. The problem is complicated, and any organization attempt is going to be hampered by ISFDB's current limitations. Titles cannot be in more than one series, so you ultimately have to pick one (or none) and note the others. Series, however, can have sub-series. So one idea I have for you is that you could have the shared first installment in a higher-level/parent series, and then the subsequent installments could be in branch-specific sub-series. For the jumping-off point, you might need to invent a series. For example, using her terminology and organization, you might have something like:
Series: Dubric Multi-Timeline
1 Title: Weight of the Castellan's Curse
2a Series: Winter of Ghosts
2 Title: Protection of the Holy Knights
3 Title: The Seer of Truth
...
6 Title: A Film of Blindness
7 Series: The Stone Spies (1)
1 Title: The Well Diggers Son
...
2b Series: Ghosts in the Snow
2 Title: The Lord's Apparent Razor
3 Title: The Linen Maid's Choice
4: Series: Threads of Malice (1)
1 Title: Rabbits & Wasps
...
4 Series: The Valley (2)
1 Title: A Tale of Two Boys
2a Series: Pieces of the Valley
2 Title: The Secret of Cyprus Farms
...
2b Series: Valley of the Soul
2 Title: What the Camera Sees
...
(1) I can't tell from the diagram how these second series on the blue/red paths relate to the prior series on the same path. If they are not sub-series, then I think the best thing to do would be to make up parent series for the blue path and the red path, and then put the relevant series into them, in order. So something like:
Series: Dubric Multi-Timeline
1 Title: Weight of the Castellan's Curse
2a Series: Blue Path (but with a better name)
1 Series: Winter of Ghosts
<titles 2 - 6>
2 Series: The Stone Spies
<titles 1 - 3>
2b Series: Red Path (but with a better name)
1 Series Ghosts in the Snow
<titles 2 - 3>
2 Series: Thread of Malice
<titles 1 - 3>
3 Series: The Valley (2)
1 Title: A Tale of Two Boys
2a Series: Pieces of the Valley
<titles 2 - 4>
2b Series: Valley of the Soul
<titles 2 - 3>
(2) Here you would make up a name/series to hold that first title plus the sub-series. In my first example, the number on that made-up series is a proxy for that first title's position in the ongoing series, while the number on the title shows us it's the first at the branch point.
I hope that helps a little. Others may have some better ideas for you. --MartyD 12:52, 26 June 2022 (EDT)

Illustrator name misspelled

The author record for illustrator Emanuel Schongut has his last name misspelled as "Shongut". Could a moderator please correct the spelling to the correct "Schongut"? I noticed this while doing a pub update for The Exile of Ellendon. The Flickr link in the The Shepherd Is My Lord record confirms this spelling as well. Thanks! Phil 22:27, 20 June 2022 (EDT)

In the future, you can change these by editing the cover art title page and correcting the spelling. I've done these two. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:33, 21 June 2022 (EDT)
Thank you. I had the impression that author name changes required mod powers. Now I know. Phil 17:37, 21 June 2022 (EDT)
Changing the name on an author record requires a moderator. Changing the name of an author on a title record or publication record can be done by anyone. In this case, there was already a correct entry for Emanuel Schongut. The two wrong titles just needed to be edited to change them to the correct spelling. The only time an author record is changed is if 1) all titles under that author record need to be changed and 2) there isn't already a correct entry for the author. That is not the typical case. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:37, 21 June 2022 (EDT)

Varianting/organizing translated collections of The Murderbot Diaries series

Hi! I want to revive this discussion about organizing collections of the Murderbot Diaries, because it's gotten more complicated since then. Please let me know if I should've just replied to the original section instead of creating a new thread like this. Anyway, The Murderbot Diaries series currently has eight "main" titles in it: five novellas (1, 2, 3, 4, 6); two short stories (0, 4.1); and one novel (5). Because they're short fiction, international publishers translating the series often choose to publish the novellas and short stories collected together in various combinations. This blank title has collections containing 1-2 but that's it. It would be helpful to organize the collections together somehow by content so the series page isn't so confusingly cluttered. The current recommendation on the thread is to variant the novella/short story collections to this English collection with 1-4 (Title Record 2764245). That's not going to work forever as the series adds new novellas/short stories that are published in new collection combinations. Unless the plan is to make Title 2764245 the grab-all title for "everything in the Murderbot Diaries except for the full novels." Examples: the most expansive English collection under 2764245 right now is 829116 (1-4, 4.1). There have been translated collections that go beyond 829116, like 897039 (0-4, 4.1) and 891486 (0, 4.1, 6). If we variant those collections to 2764245, when Tor/Subterranean inevitably publish future new collection(s) containing 0 & 6+ of the ongoing series, we're going to have to move the variants to the new collection, or make the new collection a variant of 2764245, or give up and unvariant everything, etc. It feels like a ship of Theseus problem in terms of collection contents. Morebooks 14:58, 25 June 2022 (EDT)

The original discussion got moved to here.
The practice of making the pieces of a multi-part publication variants of the complete title is used for novels (I suppose it could be applied to other single works of shorter length) that are re-published as "split" publications in multiple volumes. It is somewhat akin to making serial installments variants of a single "complete novel" title. As far as I know, we do not apply that treatment to any sort of publication of collected works ("container" types: ANTHOLOGY, COLLECTION, OMNIBUS). The sort of cross-product examples you provide illustrate why: Any sort of compilation is not an atomic entity, but rather is a composite of other entities, and another compiler may choose to make another compilation using an orthogonal set of entities. I suppose an exception might be if the partial compilations were explicitly assembled/packaged as subsets of some complete compilation, with the content of those subsets combining to be the complete compilation. What you have here is not that case, however. We also do abuse anthology/collection variants a bit, where we make re-issues with slightly different contents (e.g., a story or two added or removed) variants of the original. It's usually done to try to indicate it's an alteration of the original compilation, as opposed to a newly-assembled compilation. --MartyD 08:48, 1 July 2022 (EDT)
Others will probably not like this idea (to put it mildly), but one thought I have is that OMNIBUS might work a little better here than COLLECTION. The benefit would be that each OMNIBUS record could indicate which pieces of the series it includes. Technically, an OMNIBUS should always contain at least one novel-length work previously published separately. Using it here would be a small abuse, since although the works were published as standalone, most of them are shortfiction and you will have compilations that do not include the novel-length ones. --MartyD 08:48, 1 July 2022 (EDT)
There are a lot of series like that - especially amongst the juvenile series but lately with novellas for adults as well. Awhile back we discussed allowing collections and anthologies to have the Contents field allowed to accommodate these cases (where we cannot use omnibus because there are only shorter forms). It did not get much support but that’s exactly where that would have come useful. If we allow this one to be omnibus, all the rest can be as well - and that opens the floodgates. If that’s what everyone wants, sure, let’s change the rules. But I am against breaking the rules for just one series - DB inconsistencies make the DB search harder to use as you will never know what to look for (and in which section on an author page). :) Annie 00:47, 4 August 2022 (EDT)
I would stick to using the dummy title in order to tie together the non-English publications, even if there doesn't exist an English original. That would mean there would have to be created a new dummy English title to collect, say, the first three novellas, and for any other combination that non-English publishers will publish - that way of working doesn't seem to be against the rules as far as I can tell (after all, it says 'only published as'). Yes, that would result in several collection titles, but that seems to be preferrable than trying to link all combinations to a single top-level English collection. To clean up the clutter, I suggest to create a title subseries like 'Murderbot Collections' or some such. Regards, MagicUnk 08:58, 4 August 2022 (EDT)
AND for this situation it would be REALLY GOOD (TM) if we could enter Content in the title record - to discriminate, we could retitle to 'The Murderbot Diaries (1,2)' or something similar... MagicUnk 09:05, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

The National Pastime: The Future According to Baseball

● I recently added The National Pastime: The Future According to Baseball to the books reviewed by Peter Heck in the July/August issue of Asimov’s. Should I list this publication on this site as a periodical, as an anthology, or should I just list the review as an essay, and not put this issue on the site at all? MLB 03:29, 9 July 2022 (EDT)

The latter. A book being reviewed in one of our magazines does not make it eligible to be added to the DB if it is not genre on its own. So you add the review in the magazine as an essay and not as a review. Annie 12:25, 4 August 2022 (EDT)

Consolidate or create?

I was hoping to verify an Ace edition of This Immortal by Roger Zelazny. There are two matches, based on ISBN and price. My copy has no date and a printer's key of simply "0". One edition is dated 1982-11-00 and the notes have Stated "Tenth Ace printing: November 1982" . The other edition is dated 1982-03 with no additional notes. The only primary verifier involved is no longer active. All edits are 10+ years old. Ace was not in a habit of re-using ISBNs, but it did happen. The previous edition (by ISBN) has the same publisher key of "0", but states "This Ace printing: October 1981". The next earlier (by ISBN) notes "This Ace printing: September 1980" Eighth printing by number line 8 0 9 but should only be the seventh by catalog # progression. The subsequent edition (by ISBN) simply notes 11th edition. Should I a) choose the earlier 1982-03-00 edition and add my notes or b) create another entry (undated) and note it as a variation of the 10th edition? ../Doug H 14:23, 9 July 2022 (EDT)

Capitol Cat & Watch Dog Unite Lady Freedoms

● I just added Capitol Cat & Watch Dog Unite Lady Freedoms to the databank, but, I don’t know if it is a chapterbook, or a picture book. Does anybody know before I add the rest, there are four of them, of them. Oh, and this is a different Janice Law than the mystery author. MLB 03:02, 14 July 2022 (EDT)

"Story by" author credits

The tp and ebook of Alien: Inferno's Fall were released yesterday, and I've just checked the Amazon preview to see if I can tidy up the title note w.r.t. author(s).

The title page of the ebook states "A novel by Philippa Ballantine / Story by Philippa Ballantine and Clara Carija". As such, I suspect this title and pubs should stay with Ballantine as the sole author entry (but with the notes updated appropriately) but I don't see this sort of thing explicitly referenced in Template:PublicationFields:Author. That page does mention cases like "Author A with Author B", saying that both should be credited, but I don't think that covers this particular case where story credits are separate from authorship.

(I imagine there are similar issues for novelizations that have a "Based on a screenplay by ..." credit?)

Thoughts? ErsatzCulture 13:38, 27 July 2022 (EDT)

I would treat it the same way we treat novelizations and book adaptations of other material. E.g., we credit the adaptation of the original Star Trek installments exclusively to James Blish, without regard for who came up with the actual stories. So your idea of sole Ballentine credit + recording Carija's contribution in the notes seems both appropriate and consistent with what we have done before. --MartyD 14:32, 27 July 2022 (EDT)
(after edit conflict) Novelizations frequently mention the authors/creators of the novelized work. When they do, the wording that they use is typically "Based on a story by X and Y" or simply "Story by X and Y". Sometimes it's more involved, e.g. the cover of the 1990 Avon edition of Piers Anthony's novelization of the movie Total Recall says "Based on a Screenplay by Ronald Shusett & Dan O'Bannon and Gary Goldman" and then "Screen Story by Ronald Shusett & Dan O'Bannon and Jon Povill". On the other hand, the William Morrow edition doesn't mention these people on the cover, but the title page says "Inspired by the works of Philip K. Dick and Ronald Shusett, Dan O'Bannon, Steven Pressfield" -- note that the credited people are different.
Sometimes we record this information in Notes, but we don't credit them in the "Author" field. Ahasuerus 14:40, 27 July 2022 (EDT)
Thanks both; I've updated the title and pub notes accordingly. I was going to update the help page I linked to earlier in this item as well, but it seems to be (mostly) composed of template strings, which I've not used before, so I've left as-is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ErsatzCulture (talk • contribs) 15:15 27 July 2022.
Templates are just text/code inserted into the pages embedding the template. A good spot to add it might be in the bullet about "with other writers" here. --MartyD 15:15, 28 July 2022 (EDT)

Artist records for Heffernan/David Heffernan -- same individual?

It appears that Heffernan is an alternate record for David Heffernan. (It appears that he signed his work as "Heffernan" (no first name), so books without an explicit artist credit, such as Dark of the Moon, are credited simply to "Heffernan", while books with a stated artist credit, such as Caught in Crystal had his first & last name listed. The block-lettering Heffernan signatures are very consistent between the two artist records; and the cover art for Yngwie Malmsteen's album Trilogy (front back) has a signature on the front that matches Dark of the Moon even more closely, and has an explicit David Heffernan credit on the back.

Assuming this is correct, what would be the best way to create some kind of link between the two artist records?

Thanks!

Joe H. 10:35, 28 July 2022 (EDT)

I made Heffernan an alternate name of David Heffernan. Thanks for finding this. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:18, 31 July 2022 (EDT)
Thank you! Joe H. 13:50, 3 August 2022 (EDT)

Math input question

(This is really meta for the real question I need to ask)

Are the <math></math> tags for LaTex as produced by the sqrt(n) button in the comment editor suppose to work? I'm having problems with their use just generating literal output.

--Glenn 18:36, 30 July 2022 (EDT)

No, it does not work. The ISFDB uses a really old version of Wikipedia and it also doesn't have all the necessary dependencies installed. I doubt anyone was expected to need the match function. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:14, 31 July 2022 (EDT)

Savage Realms Monthly

● Well, I did something wrong. Why can’t I get the May issue of Savage Realms Monthly to get into this series? MLB 00:30, 31 July 2022 (EDT)

Just merge the two titles. Two additional points; Magazines are dated by the cover date, not the date they become available. Always include the ASIN when publications have a '979' ISBN. John Scifibones 08:08, 31 July 2022 (EDT)

Boxed set format

When you're entering a boxed set as an omnibus, what should the format be? --Rosab618 13:51, 31 July 2022 (EDT)

Whatever is the format of the books inside of the boxed set. So a boxes set of 3 mass market paperbacks will be mass market paperback; a boxed set of hardcovers will be hardcover and so on. In case of a mix and match (2 hardcovers, 2 paperbacks for example), use "other" and add a note explaining the situation. :) Annie 14:22, 1 August 2022 (EDT)
Thanks, Annie! --Rosab618 17:21, 3 August 2022 (EDT)

{Now + n, Now - n} title formatting

The title of this story in Beyond the Safe Zone is given as "{NOW + n, NOW - n}" in the TOC, but on the actual story page it's rendered as (here's where <math> would have been handy):

"{" (two lines tall), "NOW + n" (on line 1), "NOW - n" (on line 2, directly below NOW + n), and finally "}" (two lines tall).

Is this different enough to drive an edit? If so, how should it be formatted. Or just note it (which I'm having troubles coming up with clear short description). --Glenn 22:50, 31 July 2022 (EDT)

Just add a note. We do not support html and other scripting in titles and you will need it to show something like that. You can note it exactly as you did here if you prefer. Annie 14:20, 1 August 2022 (EDT)

Two-part Cover term

Can someone please tell me what is the correct term for a two-part paperback cover where the top cover is about 85-90% the width of a full page and the inner cover is full sized? My Google-fu has failed me. Thanks! Phil 07:37, 8 August 2022 (EDT)

It's a stepback cover, and I don't know if that originated as a publishers' term or a collectors'/booksellers' one. I was only able to find the term stepback online because I dimly recalled it; at first I was recalling it as a gatefold, but I see that that's a cover folded back like a dust-cover flap, used on some upscale trade paperbacks (also a two-part LP cover/sleeve opening like a book). MOHearn 17:09, 10 August 2022 (EDT)
Thanks! Now that I know the term, I have been able to search out more info about it. It turns out that there is also a variation called a keyhole stepback cover where there is a die-cut/keyhole opening in the outer cover displaying a portion of the inner artwork. Overall, the stepback cover seems to be most heavily used for Romance novels. Here's a link to an interesting discussion of the history of the stepback cover. Phil 06:59, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

Deleting a bad cover upload

I messed up and uploaded a cover for the wrong publication. Here is the entry for the bad cover. How do I delete this incorrect upload? It isn't used anywhere. Phil 07:50, 8 August 2022 (EDT)

It's a moderator only function, I deleted it for you. John Scifibones 09:37, 8 August 2022 (EDT)
I guessed that would be the case! Thanks! Phil 15:26, 8 August 2022 (EDT)

Isaac Asimov's OPUS books.

The current entries for Asimov's Opus books (Opus 100, Opus 200 and Opus 300) all list them as COLLECTIONS. Each book is a set of selections and excerpts from 100 of his books, most of which are non-fiction and, in many cases non-genre. According to the HELP entry for NONFICTION - "A publication that contains both non-fiction and fiction should be typed by that which is predominant." The entry does not say whether this is by number of entries or by pages, but I believe it qualifies under both. I plan to convert these but would like to offer a chance for differing opinions before doing so. ../Doug H 12:57, 10 August 2022 (EDT)

Sounds like a good plan. Ahasuerus 14:30, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

Secondarily, there is one publication Opus: A Selection from the First 200 Books which is an omnibus of the first two titles. The definition indicates this is correct, whether these be COLLECTIONs or NONFICTIONs. However, the contents include not only the two COLLECTIONs, but also repeats their contents. I believe that this is incorrect and the latter should be removed. Again - any concerns? ../Doug H 12:57, 10 August 2022 (EDT)

Help:Screen:NewPub says:
  • When recording an omnibus publication, please record all of its contents. If it contains one or more collections, please record both the collection titles and the individual short fiction or essay titles as part of the omnibus's contents.
so we should keep the individual stories. Note that this is done for two reasons:
  • It lets users looking at a SHORTFICTON work's Title page see the omnibus publications which include the story.
  • It lets us capture minor differences between the OMNIBUS pub and the COLLECTION pubs whose contents it reprints, e.g. added/removed ESSAYs.
Ahasuerus 14:30, 11 August 2022 (EDT)
Sorry, failed to look past the TYPE to CONTENTS. ../Doug H 23:57, 11 August 2022 (EDT)

Amaranth, magazine

Amaranth was supposed to be the first of a magazine series, but folded after one issue... shouldn't it still be a MAGAZINE, and not an ANTHOLOGY? Susan O'Fearna 00:54, 20 August 2022 (EDT)

If it was an issue of a magazine, then, yes. In a situation like this, if you have a source of information (be it the publication or something else) that documents this was an issue of a magazine, I encourage you to capture that information in the pub or title (or series) notes, just to help avoid future confusion. --MartyD 16:45, 24 August 2022 (EDT)

Battlestations / Battle Stations

Battlestations is how the cover, title and copyright page of my e-book copy has this book... can it be corrected? Susan O'Fearna 02:37, 20 August 2022 (EDT)

You are the only primary verifier, so if your copy has it as one word and you're verifying that, change it. It looks most likely to be a typo/spell-o vs. another form. If someone ever comes up with a copy having it as two words, that person can make a variant. --MartyD 16:41, 24 August 2022 (EDT)

Info about submitting info for a magazine series.

Hello. I am co-editor of a Brazilian magazine that pays homage to pulp magazines ("Histórias Extraordinárias" - [2] ). It publishes previously unreleased short stories in the Science Fiction, Supernatural and Cosmic Horror genres.

I have some questions that could be obvious for more experienced isfdb editors, but please bear with me :)

I want to submit the info about this magazine (5 issues published so far). Other than the short stories, it contains regular sections as:

(1) "Science Department" - essays about real-world scientific matters (actual robots, Mars probes, etc.). Should I include info about this section even if it "not speculative" in essence?

As it is in a genre magazine, EVERYTHING is eligible. So yes. This is similar to the science articles in Analog for example. Annie 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

(2) "Interviews" - interviews with people whose work may be related to the subject of one of the stories or with the author of one of the stories or someone who's in some way related to speculative fiction. Should I include this info when the interviewed person is not directly involved in speculative fiction? For example, in issue #1 a short story dealt with HAM radio, and the "Interview" section featured an experienced HAM radio user. It seems to me that this interview should not be included, but I could be wrong. Please advise.

See above :) You can add it just as a note in the notes of the publication but... technically it is eligible. Annie 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

(3) "HE Recommends" - Reviews and recommendations about speculative fiction in books, movies or TV series. Should I include the info about this section if they are not about literature (e.g. TV series or movies)? For example, In one issue we had a review about the works of Ted Chiang, in another about the "Severance" TV series. While the Ted Chiang one is a no-brainer, what about the later?

Genre Books reviews get added as reviews. Non-book and non-genre books get added as essays. See the help page and especially what is a review (aka books just being mentioned is NOT a review) and naming reviews as essays. Annie 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

I have the cover arts for all issues; is it possible to insert the cover art along with the data submission?

Not at the start unless it is in one of the places we can link to. Once the publication is approved , there will be a button to allow you to upload the cover to our DB and link it there (always a second step when adding books/magazines). Annie 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Thank you for your help. --Pugno 11:41, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Answers inline :) Let me know if any other clarifications are needed. Welcome to ISFDB! Annie 11:51, 25 August 2022 (EDT)
Thanks for your patience and help! I have one more question: In one case, the magazine index indicates that a short story is at page 20; however, page 20 is a full-page artwork (related to the story) and the text effectively starts at page 21. Should I indicate page 20 for both or 20 and 21 respectively? Pugno 17:03, 25 August 2022 (EDT)
It will be 20|20.1 for the art and 20|20.2 for the story (so they stay in order). Help page: "If a magazine presents artwork for a story or essay preceding the piece's title page, and it is apparent that the art accompanies the text, the starting page of the story or essay should be the page number of the artwork which illustrates it. If you're creating content records for both the work and its illustration, they would have the same starting page.". See also the whole sorting section in that same link - it explains the usage of the | I used above. If you want, you can add a note in the publication note explaining where the text actually starts but it is not mandatory.
When you start adding the first issue, click on these question marks next to each field - these help pages have a lot of small tips like this one and will help you figure out how to do some things. Magazines are... complicated in the DB so if you need any more assistance, just ask :) Annie 17:56, 25 August 2022 (EDT)

Stack dump when displaying verifier activity timestamps

In case you haven't seen these yet... 


/var/www/cgi-bin/SQLparsing.py in GetLastWiki(user_id=14492L)
3083                         minutes = timestamp[10:12]
3084                         seconds = timestamp[12:14]
3085                         wiki_utc = datetime.strptime('%s-%s-%s %s:%s:%s' % (year, month, day, hours, minutes, seconds), '%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S')
3086                         timestamp = timegm(wiki_utc.timetuple())
3087                         last_wiki = datetime.fromtimestamp(timestamp)

wiki_utc undefined, datetime undefined, year = '2022', month = '08', day = '02', hours = '14', minutes = '19', seconds = '40' <type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'datetime' is not defined

when showing the verifiers on a publication page. --Glenn 16:10, 31 August 2022 (EDT)

It was a bug introduced in an earlier patch to support the server upgrade project. It should be fixed now. Ahasuerus 17:19, 31 August 2022 (EDT)
Is there a place I can read about the planned upgrades? --Glenn 18:45, 31 August 2022 (EDT)
Al has an overview of what's going on on his User page, User:Alvonruff. The details can be found over on User:Alvonruff/ISFDB_Move. Ahasuerus 20:45, 31 August 2022 (EDT)

Information for different printings

I was looking up Robert Heinlein's The Past Through Tomorrow (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?32045) and found two listings for the same ISBN (978-0-425-03178-0)- one for the seventh printing (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?308039) and one for the eighth printing (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?377711). The bulk of the information is naturally the same. Neither lists a print date.

My copy, as it turns out, is from the sixth printing, and lists a print date of "January, 1975". I'd like to add this information to the record, but found it confusing to have two entries for different printings of the same book, so I'm not eager to add a third. I didn't see a way to provide the 6th printing date in a comment on the others, so not sure what to do with this.

Evil Overlord

We add separate publication records for each printing. As there can be difference between printings, they are treated separately. You can clone one of the existing printings to make record for the sixth. -- JLaTondre (talk) 13:00, 4 September 2022 (EDT)

Stephen King "The Shining" Book Club Edition

Hi, I have a copy of Stephen King's "The Shining" which is a book club edition with the gutter code MP3DD. According to your posting, Doubleday discontinued the gutter code mid-1987 with CC. I don't see anywhere in the coding series where this code is identified. Any idea of when it was used? Thanks, Danelle

Sword of Ice and Other Tales of Valdemar

When entering a different printing for Sword of Ice and Other Tales of Valdemar, I noticed that the oldest pub record here is really for the 7th printing and should have a 0000-00-00 date. Changing it would leave us without a first printing record. Should I clone this pub and add the appropriate notes to make it the true 1997-01-00 first printing pub with the source being Locus1 and then update the existing pub to have the 0000-00-00 date and corrected notes? That would preserve the history of this record. The other choice would be to clone this pub with corrected notes to be the true 7th printing record and then update the original record to have the correct first printing data and notes. Thanks! Phil (talk) 08:00, 12 September 2022 (EDT)

The OCLC does not say anything about this being a 7th printing and looking at the history, it was made a 7th printing later. So I'd clean up this record and make it the real first and not bother with a 7th printing - when/if someone can verify, they can add it. We have no source for this 7th printing besides the record unless you are verifying a later one and you want to add it because it must exist after all. You may want to ping the editor who added the note about the 7th (here and see if they have the book and can verify eventually so we have a source... Annie (talk) 17:33, 12 September 2022 (EDT)
I'll cleanup the existing record. I don't think I can ping the editor who added the 7th printing note since his last post was in 2017. :) Phil (talk) 22:02, 12 September 2022 (EDT)

Biographies?

Just wondering about entry of book length biographies of significant authors. Mary Shelly or Poe, for instance. I assume this is includable? Is this considered genre or non-genre? gzuckier (talk) 00:50, 16 September 2022 (EDT)

As per ISFDB:Policy, we include:
  • Published non-fiction works about speculative fiction which can be plausibly linked to published (as defined above) speculative fiction
so books about speculative fiction authors can be included. It can get fuzzy if the author in question is only marginally related to speculative fiction. For example, a biography of Robert Conquest that concentrated on his work as a historian would be borderline at best even though he wrote and edited a fair amount of SF. Ahasuerus (talk) 06:52, 16 September 2022 (EDT)
Just to add a note and answer part of the question here: a biography will be considered genre - it is in as a book linked to speculative fiction. Non-genre will be a book from an above the treshold author about science for example. Annie (talk) 15:34, 16 September 2022 (EDT)

On a related point, there doesn't seem to be any way to link the biography to the author, or vice versa. If the title of the bio included the author's name, it could be searched that way, but if it doesn't it would kind of be an orphan; that would seem to be a glitch?

Thanks. gzuckier (talk) 00:50, 16 September 2022 (EDT)

As per Help:Screen:AuthorData:
  • Note - This field is for bibliographic notes about the author. It can be used to document the sources that were used to compile author-specific information. It can also be used to enter brief biographical data, especially for authors who do not have other biographical pages on the Internet.
For longer biographical articles, you can use {{BREAK}} -- see Help:Using Templates and HTML in Note Fields.
We used to create biographical Wiki pages, but they were deprecated a few years ago. There are a dozen cleanup reports to help move remaining Wiki pages to the database proper. Ahasuerus (talk) 06:52, 16 September 2022 (EDT)

How to/should I enter a collection with genre and non-genre stories?

Cats Triumphant! includes "Well Worth the Money", which has been getting some interest due to this Tumblr post about it. It includes 8 genre stories and 3 non-genre stories.

I've got information on the 2012 Kindle ebook and generic ebook, plus the 2022 reprints (including, at last, a print edition that will have page numbers).

  1. Should I enter this collection even though it includes non-genre stories?
  2. Should I enter the non-genre stories or pretend they don't exist?
  3. Is it okay to enter the list of stories in the 2012 ebook editions based on the ToC for the 2022 reprints? (I originally said 'omitting the new introduction by Carole Nelson Douglas', but it appears she wrote one for the 2012 version as well.)

Thanks! Sylvar (talk) 10:15, 20 September 2022 (EDT)

  1. Yes - A predominately genre publication by a genre author.
  2. Yes - All titles are included. After creation, set the non-genre flag for the three non-genre stories.
  3. Yes - Note that your source is the 2022 publication and state that the 2012 order could differ. Edit: The two introductions look identical. John Scifibones 11:43, 20 September 2022 (EDT)

Thanks again! Sylvar (talk) 12:23, 20 September 2022 (EDT)

Oh no... I forgot to include the introductions on my first two. Oh well, I'll add those in an edit after they're created. Sylvar (talk) 12:38, 20 September 2022 (EDT)

Cover art links to ISFDB site -- include https in URL?

When I 'Upload new cover scan', the links available on the page now include the https protocol marker. Are the references from the publication supposed to be changed to match? Will there be some batched fixup applied someday? --Glenn (talk) 16:04, 24 September 2022 (EDT)

ISFDB-hosted URLs can be entered using either "http" or "https". When our software builds Web pages to display, it checks whether the site is currently running HTTP or HTTPS. It then adjusts the displayed images automatically. This setup makes it easy to go back and forth between HTTP and HTTPS, e.g. when setting up a test version of the ISFDB database on your home computer. Ahasuerus (talk) 17:48, 24 September 2022 (EDT)

In addition, what should one do when the links "Cover art supplied by ISFDB on this Web page" and "Upload new cover scan" don't match? E.g. Invader on My Back / Destination: Saturn --Glenn (talk) 17:08, 24 September 2022 (EDT)

Would like to create an author

I have a variant of an author not yet created
I believe F. G. B. should be a variant of an author named Frans G. Bengtsson, but I am not sure I can create that author by myself. At least, I have not found a way yet. --Spacecow (talk) 19:04, 24 September 2022 (EDT)

Help:How to enter an author into the database discusses related issues, but not this particular scenario. To do what you are trying to so, pull up the title in question, then click "Make This Title a Variant" in the navigation bar on the left. Scroll down to "Option 2". Change "F. G. B." to "Frans G. Bengtsson" in "Author 1", then click "Create New Parent Title". Ahasuerus (talk) 21:52, 24 September 2022 (EDT)
Done! Thank you. Appreciate the help! --Spacecow (talk) 18:07, 25 September 2022 (EDT)

Star Trek series vs publication series

I've started PVing my Star Trek books, and have tripped over what seems to be inconsistencies in whether whether a numbered sequence should be entered as a (sub)series, or a publication series. E.g., Star Trek Pocket Books vs Star Trek: The Next Generation Numbered, Star Trek: Voyager, etc.

It seems like it might be safer to not poke the bear, but I'd interested in what folks think. --Glenn (talk) 20:47, 3 October 2022 (EDT)

The way I think about distinguishing between publication and title series is to ask: If the same book were published by a completely different publisher, would (could) they do so under the same series? If the answer is "no", it's a publication series; if the answer is "yes", it's a title series. For your examples, anyone could publish a "Star Trek: Voyager" book, but no one else could publish a "Star Trek Pocket Book" book. --MartyD (talk) 09:59, 4 October 2022 (EDT)

Is there a master list of spec fiction sub-genres?

Apologies in advance for being new and not knowing my way around, but if there is such a list, I couldn't find it. Can someone please direct me? Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by VShannon (talk • contribs) .

Our inclusion policy defines speculative fiction here. Not quite the same thing as a master list of all sub-genres (which I think I credible argument could be made against the feasibility of accomplishing such a list), but the closest we have. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:46, 8 October 2022 (EDT)
The Speculative fiction template over on Wikipedia has a pretty good list. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:45, 11 October 2022 (EDT)

Login Issue

I have been a member for several years, but suddenly my login is rejected. I assume I need to update my password, but can't find anything on the Wiki page about that. Wcornette

Have you had a chance to check ISFDB:FAQ#What_do_I_do_if_I_have_problems_logging_in.3F? I have added a clarification re: the 2022-09-06 server move, specifically:
  • If you were able to log in before September 6, 2022 (which is when the ISFDB site was upgraded to HTTPS) and have been unable to log in since, you need to log in to the ISFDB Wiki first. Once you do that, you should be able to log in on the ISFDB side as well.
Ahasuerus (talk) 18:26, 9 October 2022 (EDT)
I had to change my password because my old one somehow didn't comply with PW complexity rules anymore. Somehow the system didn't accept my old PW anymore... So, you may have to change your password anyway, making sure it complies with current PW rules. MagicUnk (talk) 06:26, 13 October 2022 (EDT)

Can we split an author, please?

Author record 22465 contains information about two distinct authors:

  • Hyacinthe Hill was born Virginia Rose Cronin in Manhattan on 24 May 1920. She married John L. Anderson and wrote as Hyacinthe Hill. She died on 25 March 1989 in Marin County, California.
  • Virginia 'Nanek' Anderson was born Virginia Hadie Combs in Elizabeth City, Virginia on 20 March 1920. She married Carl W. K. Anderson and wrote as Nanek as well as her own name. She died on 25 May 1987 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Could we please break this up into two author entries? Sylvar (talk) 13:05, 13 October 2022 (EDT)

I think I got them untangled. Look at Hyacinthe Hill and the old record and let me know if I got something wrong. Annie (talk) 13:25, 13 October 2022 (EDT)
That looks right to me. Thank you very much! Sylvar (talk) 11:32, 18 October 2022 (EDT)

Le Guin Award "finalists" not looking quite right

A few days ago, the new Le Guin award announced a winner and two "finalists" from the previously announced 9 nominees. I've just updated 3 records, but - as can be seen from the linked page - the 2 "finalists" appear below the nominees, which doesn't really reflect that those 2 books were recognized. Is there anything that can be tweaked to make them appear in the order winner>finalists>nominees, or is that just how it works with the data model?

(FWIW I don't know that there was any indication prior to the winner announcement that there'd be a "finalist" category...) ErsatzCulture (talk) 17:27, 23 October 2022 (EDT)

In our data model, "winners" correspond to Award Level 1, "nominees" correspond to Award Level 9 and "finalists" correspond to Award Level 90. This is due to the fact that we assume that a "finalist" is a work which made it to the final round of jury/voter selection, but didn't become an official "nominee".
Also, as Help:Screen:EditAward says:
  • ISFDB supports two varieties of award types: poll-based and non-poll-based. For poll-based award types, you will see a "Poll place" radio button; enter the numeric award ranking between 1 and 70. For non-poll-based award types, you will see a "Win" radio button and a "Nomination" radio button; check the appropriate button.
Up until now, it was our understanding that The Ursula K. Le Guin Prize for Fiction didn't rank nominees beyond announcing the winner. Now that we know that they do rank them, we should probably change the Award Type definition from "Not Poll" to "Poll". Once we do that, we should be able to make the "finalists" Award Level 2 and the rest of the nominees Award level 3. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:30, 23 October 2022 (EDT)
That will be even more confusing than what we have now and a bad idea IMO. We need the ability to order the categories of nominees on the page (for things like short and ling lists for example or fir Finalists). A few of the Russian aware have the same issue. Just adding an explanation in the description on what Finalist means keeps the things a bit cleaner, order on the page notwithstanding. Annie (talk) 23:34, 23 October 2022 (EDT)
Back when the current version of the award model was implemented, we identified a few areas where it didn't adequately reflect the variety of scenarios that existed in the real world. After a discussion of possible permutations, FR 656, "Add support for Displayed Award Levels", was created. A few years later FR 1086, "Change the award year field to a drop-down list", was created to support certain other scenarios. (We also have FR 583 and FR 269 to support linking awards to authors and publishers, but that's a different can of worms.)
For now, we handle awards which use the terms "nominee" and "finalist" interchangeably in a number of ways. Hugo, Campbell/Astounding and Lodestar are currently set up as "Polls" with voting details given in Notes, e.g. see this 2022 award record. In certain cases, we use "Finalists" in the database sense of the world (Award Level 90), which can be confusing, e.g. see the 1977 Campbell/Astounding list, where "Finalists" are listed below "Withdrawn -- Ineligible". (We may want to review the internal Award Level values and swap some of them in order to sort more logically.)
Another possible way to handle the Le Guin situation would be to keep the "Poll" flag for this Award Type set to "No". We would then turn all 2022 nominees back to "Nominee", then add notes explaining that 2 of them were singled out as "finalists". Ahasuerus (talk) 10:42, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
Does the following workaround yield your desired result? Select the 'Special' radio button rather than the 'Nomination' radio button. Then choose 'Preliminary Nominees' from the dropdown list. John Scifibones 11:24, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
It may work for this year but whoever adds them next year may not realize how to enter them (or someone may decide to 'fix' this year's nominations because they are not really preliminary nominations). As a stop-gap, it can work and we can keep an eye on it (and add a note at the award Note explaining the naming). Annie (talk) 11:41, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
And then if we are not careful, different years in the same award may also use a different mechanism. In a perfect world, we should be able to set the precedence of the level inside of the category - so if one day an award does something like semi-finalists for example, we do not need to twist the UI yet again :) Annie (talk) 11:41, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

Help Desk history missing content

Viewing the Help Desk history, e.g. Revision as of 14:04, 15 November 2019 by Ahasuerus (https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php?title=ISFDB:Help_desk&oldid=565502) seems to show empty content.

— FlaSheridn (talk) 21:57, 23 October 2022 (EDT)

We only keep the last 50 versions of Wiki pages due to limited disk space. However, old sections are periodically archive, so they are not lost. In this case November 2019 sections can be found in Archive 31, specifically ISFDB:Help_desk/archives/archive_31#My_Votes_in_.28Internal_and.2For_External.29_Chronological_Order. Ahasuerus (talk) 22:12, 23 October 2022 (EDT)

Problem finding license types for uploaded image files

When uploading files (eg. an author image) to the wiki, shouldn't there be a drop down box in File Description that allows you to select the license? The only option I see is "None selected". Ultimately I'm looking for the area where I can specify the license type, image creator, source, etc. Thanks. PeteYoung (talk) 13:21, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

Hmm, the Upload file page has a link (at least for moderators?) for editing MediaWiki:Licenses which controls the pull down. Looking at the Wikipedia version, it looks like it only allows for simply static licenses. So we could make use of it, but people would still need to add information to allow linking back to the database (author id, etc.). If people think it would useful for having at least partial templates, I would be willing to enter them. -- JLaTondre (talk) 13:41, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
Right now, Category:Image License Tags is linked from the image upload page. Instead of selecting a license from the list (which isn't populated right now), you should use one of the templates listed in that category. The correct template will include the correct license. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:16, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
I've updated the list based on the list of templates in Category:Image License Tags. Let us know if that works for you. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:23, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
That looks ideal, thanks. Will use this list tomorrow and report back on any problems. Cheers. PeteYoung (talk) 16:27, 24 October 2022 (EDT)
You will need to edit the image page afterward in order to fill in the appropriate information. You'll also have to copy the parameters from the template page so you know what you need to fill in for the template. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:30, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

Two authors same name, needs (I)?

These https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=ogunyemi&type=Name do appear to be two different authors, but then shouldn't one of them be (I)? Thanks. gzuckier (talk) 00:56, 31 October 2022 (EDT)

The only difference in the two names is the use, or lack, of a diacritic dot under the e in the last name. The first step is to confirm that we didn't make a data entry error. A check of the attribution in issue 1 of 34 Orchard confirms the name was entered correctly. Based on the available bios, it appears this is just one author.
The proper way to handle is to make Ernest O. Ògúnyemí and alternate name of Ernest O. Ògúnyẹmí. Then make Christmas Chicken a variant title. Sumit these two edits and I will approve them. Thanks for finding this, John Scifibones 09:28, 31 October 2022 (EDT)

Narrator template and multiple narrators

I've recently started adding audiobooks, and a few of them have more than one narrator. In those cases I've just added multiple separate narrator templates, but I've just seen this omnibus pub where 5 narrators are listed in one template, separated by " and ". Is one or both of these correct usage? Neither Template:PublicationFields:PubNote nor Help:Using_Templates_and_HTML_in_Note_Fields have anything to say on this particular use case (which may well be equally applicable to other templates like A.

My guess is that right now, it doesn't make much difference, but if/when the current use of templates is superseded by having some sort of "role" functionality for contributors to pubs, then having something that can be easily and unambiguously parsed would be preferable. From a quick SQL query of the database, I note that there are 87 author records that contain the text ' and '. Granted, most of those are unlikely to ever be narrators, but could easily be referenced in A templates, and it might be preferable to have some consistent handling across template types, rather than special casing Narrator? ErsatzCulture (talk) 16:18, 7 November 2022 (EST)

It is the same issue as with the translator template - we can deal with all possibilities when we are ready to convert one day. I use "and" and "," as separators between the names and rarely use the A (author) template inside of the Translator/Narrator. And when working internationally, we have an extra challenge of adding the transliterations inside of the template (as there is no space for them elsewhere as it will be if they become proper author records). So pick up a way to record and when it comes to parsing, there won't be that many options to cover anyway. If and when the special characters become an issue, we can revisit but for now as long as the data is there, I am not too worried about converting later. Annie (talk) 16:23, 7 November 2022 (EST)

Name of the artist misspelled

. Good day,

The name of an illusterator in the recent issue of GHOSTS & SCHOLARS (no.43) is misspelled.

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?922187

Instead of 'Carl Lavoir', it should be: Carl Lavoie.

There's already a page for him:

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?269730

Could the name please be corrected and the illustration credit linked to the illustrator's profile?

Thank you, and have a wonderful day!

Sincerely,

-Carl Lavoie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jahrel (talk • contribs) . 07:57, 17 November 2022‎ (EST) .

Thanks for letting us know. I've asked the person who verified that issue to come comment here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:00, 17 November 2022 (EST)
Looking at the issue, it appears that was already corrected. It's current showing as "Carl Lavoie". ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:06, 17 November 2022 (EST)

Capitalization/varianting of David D. Levine's Tk'tk'tk aka Tk'Tk'Tk

At least some pubs of this story use the form "Tk'Tk'Tk", rather than the currently recorded "Tk'tk'tk". Examples of the former are the 21st Century SF anthology (*), the Space Magic anthology, and the derived chapbook that includes just that story; examples that use the latter are Escape Pod 54. Is this something that we should try to record the particular pub's usage exactly as far as possible using variant titles, or are there perhaps R&S capitalization rules that override things? I would have assumed the former, but given that this is a reasonably high-profile short story - albeit with an annoyingly-hard-to-get-right title - I'd have thought this one might have been caught before now?

(* - at least per the contents listing of the ebook, the title on the story itself appears in all caps) ErsatzCulture (talk) 16:30, 17 November 2022 (EST)

Sarah Monette's "Letter from a Teddy Bear on Veterans Day"

I stumbled across a duplicate and have a couple of questions about making a variant. From the web page, I can see that the original publication, "Letter from a Teddy Bear on Veteran's Day," is correctly listed but I don't have access to the anthologies which print it as "Letter from a Teddy Bear on Veterans' Day" (I didn't see it immediately but the difference is the plural possessive apostrophe vs. the singular) so I'm not sure if that's correctly listed or not. Both titles are actually wrong in terms of the name of the holiday which is "Veterans Day" (no apostrophe at all) so I don't know which should be canonical (presumably the first publication). And, while I doubt it, should there be a sort of redirect alternate title with the correct punctuation because, when you search for "Veterans Day," only "Veterans Day" by Cat Sparks shows up and this one doesn't. --J-Sun (talk) 15:14, 18 November 2022 (EST)

Wow, this is so complicated it almost seems like one of mine, but I'll try to sort it out. I (Username) added both Archive.org links, 1 for each variant of the title, and when the 1 that was accepted recently was approved I think I'd completely forgotten that I added the other one late last year until I just looked at them now. The one spelled "Veteran's" is a 2006 page but the Archive link was in 2015 for some reason, while the one spelled "Veterans'" doesn't have a date on it but the Archive link is from 2007. Monette's Prime Books collection with this story is on Archive.org and I checked it; it's "Veterans'". The Prime Books anthology it appeared in, which was apparently one of many they did which got cancelled before making it to the shelves, also, according to the linked blog post in the record, has "Veterans'". So here's what I say; she corrected the title in later appearances, so that should be the parent and "Veteran's" should be the variant. --Username (talk) 15:35, 18 November 2022 (EST)

Dating variants

I am unclear what to do in case we have a title by a variant author name that's dated earlier than the same title but published by the canonical author name. this one, for example, confuses me. The story 'Party Favors' has been published under the variant author name Alex Nathan Shumate in 1994. Only later was this title published under the author's canonical name Nathan Shumate in 2015. Currently, the parent title (by Nathan Shumate) is dated 1994, whereas it actually got published only in 2015 under the author's canonical name. I know we've been discussing this on and off, but to my knowledge we never got a clear set of rules for these, or do we?

Should we re-date the parent title to 2015? But if we do, we will have a parent title that's published later than its variant title by Alex Nathan Shumate of 1994. And the author's bibliography will show the title as published in 2015, not in 1994 as it should.

Conversely, should we date the parent title to the date of the first appearance of said title, whether it's the variant date or not? That will result in correct date in author's bibliography, but will result in wrong date of when the title actually appeared. (probably need to move to r&s, but hey, I'm confused...) MagicUnk (talk) 07:23, 19 November 2022 (EST)

Parents are dated based on the first appearance of the story (excluding translations) under any title or author credit. The only exception is if a translation was published first. In that case, we still use the first date published in the author's canonical language. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:24, 19 November 2022 (EST)
Yes, I agree - that is the only case where a title is not dated based on its own publications but based on all publications in the title’s original language. That way it stays where it belongs in the publication order. The parent serves a double function for us - it is one of the titles (as any variant it carries) but it is also the main record for a text/book. As such, it is not treated as a regular variant (that’s why we can also have empty parents but not empty variants for example). Some DBs and sites solve that by having a “canonical” record which never belongs into a work. In ours we just use a record using the canonical name of the author when one with the correct title exists. Annie (talk) 12:18, 19 November 2022 (EST)
OK, that's clear, thanks. Shouldn't we add this rule explicitly into the rules somewhere for future reference? MagicUnk (talk) 16:05, 22 November 2022 (EST)

Can't log in and nothing works

Trying to add a new collection to my page. My old login is being rejected. All the notices tell me what to do, but not how to do it. Why is it so hard to log in? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lwoolley (talk • contribs) . 15:49, 22 November 2022‎ (EST)

Which page? Please share the URL. Also, what is your old username (since you said you're having trouble logging in)?
To login, you should login here on the wiki first. That should log you into the database side of ISFDB. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:54, 22 November 2022 (EST)

Harlequin Pub Series with sub-series?

The Harlequin Publication Series Harlequin American Romance has a paranormal romance-themed miniseries/sub-series, More Than Men (here's another Goodreads list). The books in More Than Men all have pub series numbers listed for the Harlequin American Romance pub series (for instance, Neptune's Bride is HAR 509, but they don't appear to have pub series numbers listed for the More Than Men miniseries. Is it preferable to list the More Than Men books in the Harlequin American Romance pub series with their pub series numbers included? Or should I list them in a new More Than Men pub series without any pub series numbers? Or do something else?

(Several of the More Than Men books are also in different Harlequin pub series, e.g. a Neptune's Bride reprint is in Silhouette pub series Dreamscapes: Whispers of Love.) Morebooks (talk) 23:40, 30 November 2022 (EST)

Is it correct to assume that 'Harlequin American Romance' is devoted not only to speculative titles? Than, in my view, the case is similar to Phantastische Bibliothek and Suhrkamp Taschenbuch, with the books published in 'Phantastische Bibliothek' all also having a publication series no. within (and being part of) 'Suhrkamp Taschenbuch'. We decided to do it this way because the first series is devoted to speculative fiction titles and we are a site devoted to the same area. So, yes, under the above assumption I'd think the books within the 'More Than Men' should be indexed here with their own pub. series (and accompanying no.). Hope that helps, Christian Stonecreek (talk) 04:27, 1 December 2022 (EST)
Yes, Harlequin American Romance contains both specfic and non-specfic titles, while More Than Men is only specfic. More Than Men doesn’t have corresponding pub series numbers like Harlequin American Romance does. Should I put the books in a new More Than Men pub series while giving them the pub series numbers from Harlequin American Romance? Or should I put the books in More Than Men pub series and leave the pub series numbers blank? Morebooks (talk) 06:01, 1 December 2022 (EST)
Or what if I name the new pub series "Harlequin American Romance: More Than Men" and then include the HAR pub series numbers? Morebooks (talk) 16:34, 1 December 2022 (EST)
Either works but make sure the decision is documented in the notes of the series so people can understand what we are naming and numbering :) Annie (talk) 17:05, 1 December 2022 (EST)
Poking around more Harlequin paranormal romances, this is apparently going to be an ongoing issue with the publisher. E.g Harlequin has another pub series, Harlequin Temptation, that's a mixture of specfic and non-specfic titles; Temptation in turn has at least 2 sub-series that are also mixtures of specfic & non-specfic titles, Lovers & Legends and Secret Fantasies. And so on & so forth across various other Harlequin pub series & imprints. So what's the preferable way to handle this consistently? Keep creating new pub series for the sub-series? Ignore the sub-series? Move the pub series like Harlequin Temptation into a new separate publisher listing so the sub-series can be pub series for that imprint? Morebooks (talk) 03:09, 2 December 2022 (EST)
Ideally, we would implement FR 327, "Allow nested publication series". Unfortunately, it would take a significant amount of development time, so it's not on my short list of things to do. For now, any of the proposed solutions would work as long as we document what we are doing in Notes. Ahasuerus (talk) 09:19, 2 December 2022 (EST)
Just as a reminder, we also have the MultiPubS template (no parameters) which is to be used when a book is in two publication series (nested or not) and which should make it easier to untangle these when/if we ever can do nested and/or multiple pub series. I tend to add the other series name and number (if one is available). See this for an example. :) Annie (talk) 13:13, 2 December 2022 (EST)

The Eye of the Lens

The novelette "The Eye of the Lens" is a concatenation of three short stories, "The Hall of Machines", "The Coming of the Sun", and "The Eye of the Lens," apparently with no changes to the stories. We don't have a listing for the short story "The Eye of the Lens" yet, I'm about to add one. I've separated out the three pubs of the short story from the pubs of the novelette. Where the three short stories are published, they are all three together, so it's as if the novelette was published, but the subsections listed. None of the short stories appear anywhere on their own without the other two.

My question is do I make the three separate short stories a variant of the novelette in some way? Or just have a note to relate them?

Thanks. gzuckier (talk) 00:31, 1 December 2022 (EST)

No, they won't be variants unless they were serialized (aka - it was always one story, just published in pieces - in which case the smaller pieces become serials instead of stories). There are 2 ways to record that if we do not go the serials route:
  • Always include the 3 stories where the new bigger story is published. That works if the split is obvious in the big story.
  • Use notes to connect the fix-up story to its stories. We do that usually for fix-up novels which do not get treated as collections but it can work here as well.
However if the 3 short stories never appear on their own after their initial publication and always appear as part of the novelette, then they sound more like chapters/serialization than separate stories. If so, we may actually be better off making the initial ones SERIAL and connecting them to their parent. Intent matters here - it is important to know if they were planned to be one story or if they were 3 separate stories that then got fixed-up into a single entity. Annie (talk) 17:13, 1 December 2022 (EST)
OK, I'll do some mental activity. It's one of those New Wave type writings that doesn't fit into any categories politely. gzuckier (talk) 23:28, 1 December 2022 (EST)

How to Convert a Chapbook to a Novel

I am editing and PVing Christopher Ruocchio / The Lesser Devil. It is 56329 words long so comfortably a novel, however, it is currently recorded as a Chapbook. I have found this help page: How to convert a novel to a chapbook but I cannot find a help page telling me how to do the reverse. Can someone please point me in the direction of the appropriate help page or, if there isn't one, tell me what to do. Thanks. Teallach (talk) 18:48, 1 December 2022 (EST)

Step one: Change the short fiction title (this one to a novel.
Step 2-x: Go into each of the chapbook publications and use "Remove Title from Publication" to eject the Chapbook record.
Step Last: If the novella was in any collections and anthologies, check if they do not need to be changed to Omnibuses. If it is in a magazine, you will need to replace it in the magazine with the Complete Novel serial. If it was serialized, make sure the rules for novels and not for stories are applied to the dating. If the book has variants, all of them need to be changed the same way with steps 1-x :) Annie (talk) 18:56, 1 December 2022 (EST)
Forgot one step of course somewhere in the copying around: Once the short story is changed to a novel AND the chapbook is ejected (both need to be approved first), the publication needs to be changed to a novel as well. As you won't even be able to submit these pub type changes before the other two changes are approved, it may make sense to actually add a moderator note to ask the handling moderator to assist -- and just check at the end to make sure they did and submit if they missed it. :) That one is now all approved. Thanks for finding out the length. Annie (talk) 23:52, 2 December 2022 (EST)
1) Thanks for updating the pub records. As I stated in the Notes to Moderator, I was going to do this myself because I don't like asking moderators to do stuff that I can do. However, given your recommendation, I will do so if I come across this scenario again in the future. I presume you've suggested this because otherwise the inconsistent pub record(s) will get flagged in a cleanup report whilst my edit is waiting to be approved.
2) Now that we've done all these edits, there is an empty Chapbook record hanging around. Should I submit an edit to delete it or will it automatically get deleted as a result of some cleanup process? Teallach (talk) 16:48, 3 December 2022 (EST)
That helps not having the inconsistent formats stay a long time in the DB, get flagged on a report and needing someone to get to them. You submitting also works - and I would recommend checking just in case the handling moderator missed the note - sometimes it happens. I would usually do that step when I am approving even without a note (this one is just a bit clunky due to the inability to submit it early). We will fix it sooner or later (we have a report for it) but we don’t work all reports daily (or even weekly) :)
Oops, I thought I deleted it. Now I did. But yes - if it is not deleted, submit the deletion. It will show up on a report and we will zap it one day when someone works through the report but a deletion is needed so if you notice it, off it goes. Basically authors, publishers and publication series get deleted automatically when the last entry under them is deleted; titles and series need a delete submission when they are empty. Annie (talk) 20:00, 3 December 2022 (EST)
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