User talk:Starseeker 2065

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Hello, Starseeker 2065, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Stonecreek 18:36, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Some problems with your submissions

Hello, and welcome again! Sorry that I have to state that I had to reject your submission for Night Phobia and Other Tales of Mystery and Terror. The software can't handle an author like 'Garnett Radcliffe(2)= Jeffrey S. Fisher' - or rather it can: it would establish a new author named 'Garnett Radcliffe(2)= Jeffrey S. Fisher', which wouldn't be sensible, because the title should show up either on Garnett Radcliffe's or Jeffrey S. Fisher's author summary page. The author to be entered should only be one of the two: the one stated on the title page.

Likewise, other entries for the fields weren't handable: if there's no ISBN, please let the field be blank (as the field for cover artist, when there is no credit or no art). There also is no binding to be entered as 'spiral-bound softcover'. If you would order it into the basket of books, this would probably be a trade paperback (to be entered as 'tp'); the spiral binding may then be mentioned in the publication's notes. Please do get into the help pages, especially the Help:Getting Started mentioned above.

Your other submission does look much better, though. There are, however, some problems to be addressed: You stated the artist as 'punchatz(uncredited -taken from cover)'. Again this would create a new artist with the name 'punchatz(uncredited -taken from cover)' when you probably would tend to this artist. In this case an artist identified by his signature (and I think that's what you meant with '-taken from cover') may be entered with his full name and an accompanying publication's note how the artist was identified, see this pub. for an example.

Then there's the case of the ISBN that can't be the real ISBN for the book, because ISBNs don't end with an 'S'.

Please do respond to this last two problems adressed here, so that I can approve of your submission for Death Tour, which is currently on hold. Thanks, Stonecreek 19:09, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I've approved your revised submission for Night Phobia and Other Tales of Mystery and Terror, although there are still some problems (which I fixed). The publishing company, according to all records I can find (including your web page), is called "Haunted Publications", not "Garnett Radcliffe/Haunted Publications". I corrected that. (I also added a link to the OCLC record for your book.) Because we do need to disambiguate you from the 1899-1971 author with that name, I had to list your name differently than "Garnett Radcliffe". Unlike imdb, we don't usually use numbers to disambiguate, we try to use something that makes it easier for readers to figure out who they want. I chose "Garnett Radcliffe (21st century)", but if you wanted to you could change that to something like "Garnett Radcliffe (Horror author)" (the other author wrote detective and adventure works). Either way, if you enter other books of yours, you would want to use the same "name" for those submissions. If you go to the author page created for you by this submission, you'll see how I handled the "pseudonym" connection between "Garnett Radcliffe" and your true name. We invite you to "Edit Author Data" to add other personal data that you want to make public on that page, e.g. birth date/place and/or a link to any writer's web page that you use. Chavey 08:14, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Submission for "Death Tour"

I have accepted your submission for "Death Tour", by David J. Michael, although I had to make several corrections. You misspelled the publisher as "Sigent"; I corrected it to "Signet". I also corrected 5 misspellings in the "notes" and "summary" that you included. (You should probably be a bit more careful about your spelling.) While doing that, I also added a cover image listed by Amazon for this book, but because Amazon occasionally makes mistakes, it's helpful if you visit the book page and verify that this is the correct cover image. You could then also "Verify This Pub" to show that the data there is correct. Thank you for your contribution! And since you pointed out this book that we were missing, I found two other editions of that book and added them as well. Chavey 08:38, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Your questions

In your "Notes to Moderator" for your "Death Tour" submission, you asked:

I'm somewhat confused as to how to ID an ISBN if you can help (and how, exactly, to reply to messages on my user page).

Not all books have an ISBN, e.g. older books (1970's and before), and books from small publishers that don't purchase the ISBN #s. But when they have them, they are almost always in two places: On the back cover of the book and/or on the copyright page.

        To reply to messages on your user page, you need to log in again -- the login you do on the main ISFDB editing pages doesn't carry over to the Wiki pages. However, your login name and password will be the same as it was on the "main" ISFDB pages. The login button will be at the very top of the window, on the far right.
        After logging in, each topic in the Wiki page should then have an "Edit" link to the far right of the title of the topic. Clicking there will allow you to add comments to a thread. New comments should be "indented" with respect to the comment you're responding to. You do that by adding colons before your comments. If you edit this comment, for example, you'll see that I added one colon to your quotation ": I'm somewhat confused ..." to get the indentation you should see for that quotation. Then, at the end of your comment/question, you should add 4 "tilde" symbols, ~~~~. The Wiki software automatically converts these characters into your name and a time stamp for when your remarks were added. For more details on how to work with these pages, go to the Help pages, and click on the "Wiki Conventions" link. That will give you more details than you really need to get started, but you can choose how much of it you wish to read at first. Of course as Stonecreek pointed out, the Help page link on "Getting Started" is a good page to read, as is the page there on "What the ISFDB Wiki is for". Good luck! Chavey 09:10, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

submissions for possible inclusion, etc.

Hi, Chauvey. I may not be replying in quite the correct place here, but hopefully, this will reach you all the same.

This is a perfectly fine place to ask your questions. Once a moderator has raised an issue (as I did above), it is our responsibility to watch your page until the issue has been resolved. Chavey 00:08, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

As is (painfully) obvious, I am very new to this sort of thing(i.e., contributing to databases, and so on), and must ask that people be patient with me, and the no doubt numerous dumb mistakes I have made, and shall make.

We all start slowly, and build up speed as we get used to things. All of us remember how much trouble we had when we first got started ourselves. And a database like this that has a ton of information necessarily takes a while to get used to the various parts of it. I'll mention that one of the requirements of being a moderator is that we have patience with newer members of our club :-) Chavey 00:08, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I have gone ahead today, and attempted to re-submit Night Phobia..., as well as two n-f books which would seem to be of interest to the members/users of ISFDb. Those, and novels seem the best items to begin with. I do have considerable obituary information, as well as knowledge of various other fiction, n-f items which I hope to be able to contribute in time.

If you check my message above, you'll see that I had accepted your earlier submission, and then made the little changes myself. Hence slightly later on your talk page you'll see that your second submission was rejected, because it was attempting to add a book that already existed. That moderator has left instructions for you on adding the table of contents to your book.
As to your suggestions for non-fiction items, we only include non-fiction books that are about speculative fiction. So, for example, we would include a book that talked about occurrences of quantum computers in science fiction books, but we would not include books that discussed the science of quantum computers, or what the likelihood is that such computers would exist in the near future, etc.. The two books you submitted both seem to be about science and not about science fiction, hence are probably not appropriate for inclusion. Chavey 00:08, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Regarding myself, I note that my brief enrty which I have had for a long time has now been updated, and upgraded as well somewhat, for which I am pleased, of course. I could add dob, etc., once I learn more about all this. For example, I used the byline "J.Fisher" most of the time in the 1990s under which I aided John Clute, etc. al, with the 1990s version of TEoSF. I should ne noted there shortly under my full name in acknowledgements as I continue to send tid-bits of data,suggestions, and such that way fairly-often.

We don't normally include "acknowledgements" for books. TEoSF is published as by John Clute and Peter Nicholls, so those are the only two people who get credited for that book. We do have special ways of crediting the cover artist and artists for internal art, but not for other forms of contribution. (We don't even have the ability to credit a novel's editor or a translator into a second language.) If there is a place in TEoSF where the authors thank various contributors, then a note could be added to the book listing all of those folks who were thanked, but that acknowledgement would not end up in your bibliography page. If you wish, you can go to the author page for yourself, click on the "Biography" link, and add some basic information about yourself, including that you contributed to TEoSF. You should be cautious here though, we tend to be unhappy with authors who want to make that page a self-promotion page. For some examples of basic bio pages, two such pages that I wrote are Don Arneson and Dale Carson, and those will probably give you an idea of what we expect. For something more promotional, the natural thing is to have your own web page, and link to that page by going to your author page, clicking the "Edit Author Data" link, then filling in the line for "Web Page 1:" with the link to your own web page, and submitting that. Chavey 00:08, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

As indicated, i am something like the three blind men trying to ID the elephant in feeling my way along the byways of the ISFDb, so will need patience shown as I learn! My computer is dated as well, and lacking some basic features even, in addition to my not knowing what most all here undoubtedly take for granted.

If you can offer any further suggestions for getting either Night phobia..., or my novella Time of the Night Beast added, I would appreciate this more than a little!

Your Night Phobia has been accepted. I can't find any online reference for "Time of the Night Beast"; neither Amazon nor WorldCat knows about it, so we would probably need some additional reference for it in order to accept it. However, if you filled out the data for that book, including a "Note to the Moderator" as to where the book was available, then we should be able to accept it. Chavey 00:08, 3 May 2013 (UTC)


Night Phobia and Other Tales of Mystery and Terror

I have rejected your submission of a new publication for "Night Phobia and Other Tales of Mystery and Terror" as this publication is already in the database. Per your question in the note to the moderator field, to add contents, you can go to the publication record (Night Phobia and Other Tales of Mystery and Terro) and select the "Edit This Pub" link under the "Editing Tools:" section of the left hand toolbar. From there, Help:Screen:EditPub provides the instructions on how to add the contents. Let us know if you have questions. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 22:42, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

UFOs and Other Worlds

I currently have your addition of Peter Ryan's "UFOs and Other Worlds". Is this NONFICTION book about UFOs in general or about UFO speculative fiction? From what little I found on the web, it sounds like the former. However, only the later would be applicable to the ISFDB. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 22:47, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi, JLaTondra. If I understood your query about the above Ryan/Pesek title, it is non-fiction on UFOs which I take it is what is required? Dan Dare is briefly mentioned incidentally. The book appears to be part of a series of Puffin/Penguin title from mid-1970s which were aimed at young readers, of which they did some additional titles listed in the rear. Journey to the Planets sounds like the one of most sf=related interest. The series in general covered everything from the Vikings to metals and minerals, it seems.
Thanks for asking.
Starseeker 2065
As this is a non-genre book by an author that doesn't have any listed genre fiction works nor is the book reviewed in an established genre spec-fic magazine, I have rejected the submission. There is always an ambiguity with these types of books as to if they belong in the ISFDB or not, but based on your description this one seems pretty clear on the not side. If you disagree, you are welcome to ask for a second opinion at ISFDB:Community Portal.
By the way, when replying to people without changing the subject, it is easier for people to follow if you add your response under the prior post vs. starting a new section. A semicolon at the start of a line will indent it (one indent level per semicolon). I have moved your response under this section as an example.
Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 21:11, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Night Phobia, etc.

Hello again, Chavey(think I spelled it correctly that time). Thank you for your understanding, & patientce with my fumbling along here. my collection Night phobia is much better known which is no doubt why you haven't found references to Curse of the Night Beast(forgive the pulpish title, please). I shall see about rectifying that situation fairly-soon. This novella exists in a couple' different forms, actually.

No real inent to self-promote, although I have been a fan prob. as long as many others here. I understand my contributions to TEoSF will indeed be noted there soon, so no problem.

RE; the Pauwels/Bergier book Impossible Possibilities, there is consdierable speculative n-f content. I would suggest others look it up, and decide then if it would be of sufficent interest for isfdb.

UFO-related titles in-general seem to be source of confusion; I note several of Brad Stieger's titles are listed as novels, when they are allegedly non-fiction, and w/some others, titles are lacking in their own entries which do exist. Daniel Cohen, for example, has many others which solidly fall into the paranormal/ufological range.

Thanks again for bearing with me. At various times, I have had many books, and magazines of which many would no doubt be of interest to many ISFDb users. I will, of course, suggest other titles when I come across them as I often do.

Starseeker 2065


Hello, Stonecreek. What exactly are tildes(as in signing my talk pages, etc.?) Sorry to show my ignorance here, but there is much I don't know as-yet about many things digital.

I am pleased there are as many nice people as there are in the ISFDb community; w/o their help, my Night Phobia... most likely would not have made it at all into the database. I tried to provide a contents listing for-same last night, but think I fouled it up slightly in way I listed page numbers(yes, I ought to have checked some others first, I know). I seem to be gradually learning though, and my thanks again.

Starseeker 2065

I believe I read of something known as Unicode last night in a help section; if I have the term correct here, what exactly is that(sorry again for my stupidity).I am still far more comfortable with typewriters/word processors than computers. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Starseeker 2065 (talkcontribs) .

A tilde can be found on most keyboards on the number line. It looks like this: ~ and it's usually the first key on the left. You have to shift to enter it. Entering four of them at the end of your message will add your user name and time stamp the message. Leave one space between after your message and then enter four tildes. Depending upon which skin you're using here (probably the default if you haven't changed your preferences), you have the option of a button at the top of the entry screen that will also sign and date your message by automatically entering four tildes. It's the second button from the right.
It is important also to respond directly to the topic at hand instead of creating a new one. That is done by clicking on the [edit] link to the right of the message to which you want to respond. This opens a dialog window, into which you type your response and adding four tildes at the end. Hope this helps.
About Unicode, don't worry about it. I've been here for six years and have no idea what Unicode is, so you can see it's not necessary to be software savvy to update the database. It's just a matter of reading the help page and following the advice given to you by other editors and moderators. (Here is the most important help page on the website. Bookmark it, because it tells you 90% of what you need to know about editing the db.) We don't expect new editors to be proficient at editing overnight. It's going to take time. The more you edit, the more you'll learn. You're going to make mistakes and we understand that. It's going to take a little patience on both of our parts. But you'll eventually find it easier. Hell, I still make mistakes after six years! Welcome and thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 04:22, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Contents for Night Phobia...

Hello, Chavey. I sent in an effort at contents for my collection above last night; realize I probably made a couple of errors. if this disqualifes it, please let me know, so I can renter same.

I also hope my proposal for the book by Rollo Ahmed The Black Art will be acceptable. It seems fairly-well known(as does Ahmed himself) in circles outside the genre proper.

Regards Starseeker 2065 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Starseeker 2065 (talkcontribs) .}}

Another moderator accepted the submission adding the contents to this record, but missed the problem with the page numbering. You should only give the page number on which the content begins, which 99% of the time is the content's title page. I've made the corrections in the record. Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:36, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Author update

The birthdate you gave in the submission to update this author defaulted to "unknown". All dates in the ISFDB should be entered in this format: YYYY-MM-DD. Today's date would be entered as 2013-05-04. This month would be entered as 2013-05-00. This year would be entered as 2013-00-00.

Also, the country should be included in the birthplace field. For the US, we use "USA". So the birthplace field should be entered as "Brevard, North Carolina, USA".

One last thing: the name "Garnett Radcliffe (21st century)" is rather awkward and unwieldy. It also implies you were born after the year 2000, and unless you're a very precocious child, it should be changed. I would suggest changing it to "Garnett Radcliffe (1980-)" making the year your year of birth.

I'll accept the submission and ask you to make the corrections. Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:31, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Jeffrey, I agree with Mike that this is a better disambiguation name. Since I was the person who created the previous name, I went ahead and corrected the disambiguation name. You'll still need to deal with the birth date. Chavey 16:23, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
I had to reject two submissions to update the author because the birthdate field was entered using the wrong format. If you don't use the YYYY-MM-DD format, the system defaults to "unknown". If your birthday is January 22, 1950 it should be entered as "1950-01-22". That should be clear at this point.
And we're still waiting for you to correct the author name field, changing (1980-) to the year of your birth (unless we shockingly got it right!). Thanks. Mhhutchins 05:12, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Malevolent Force by Woodring

Submission adding this record to the database was accepted, but a few changes had to be made in order for it to comply with ISFDB standards.

  • Publisher field was changed from "Exposition Press, Inc." to just "Exposition Press". There is no hardfast rule about how publishers are entered. The books of this particular publisher are in the db without the extended name. As you enter more books and look through the records, you'll learn how they're entered into the db.
  • The page count field was changed from "{vi} + 281" to "vi+281". We don't use brackets around roman-numeraled pages. The highest roman number is given, followed immediately by the plus sign, which is followed immediately (without space) by the highest Arabic numbered page. There are few exceptions to this rule which you'll learn as you continue to contribute.
  • You didn't give the source for your data. I'm assuming you're working from the book in hand. If so, let the moderator know this in the "Note to Moderator" field. After the submission is accepted, go to the record and do a Primary Verification of it. (A link in the Welcome section gives you instructions on how to do this.) If you're working from a secondary source, not the book itself, that source should be given in the record's "Note" field. Do not enter anything into the "Note" field which you don't want to be seen by the ISFDB user. Do not enter anything into the "Note to Moderator" field which you want to be seen by the user. All information for which there is no separate field and which you feel is important to be recorded should be entered into the "Note" field. Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:56, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

June M. Woodring

hello, mhhutchins. What corrections do I need to make for this submission?


Starseeker 2065

None. If you re-read my message you'll see that I made the corrections. I'm only pointing out the errors so that you will remember how to handle such records in the future. Also, you should not have created this new topic. As I explained before, you should click on the [edit] link to the right of the topic to which you want to respond. Also, please read the previous messages about how to sign and date your messages using tildes. Mhhutchins 03:34, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

errors with my submissions

Mhhutchins: Ihave only modest computer skills, at best, and I am not sure I can do much more with isfdb than waht I have been able to already. I need help here and there on various matters, frankly, the ISFDb seems to be one of the more complicated databases, or sites I have been active in. Much of it is like a foreign language to be quite frank, and I lack the Stone, so tp speak, to unlock all of its characters. Am debating placing into my own author's data, in hopes others might offer more explicit directions. For example, I have trouble finding some needed data on the help sections, although I believe I did manage to submit the entries for Werewolf magazine reasonably correct fashion.

If you, or anybody else has suggestions, please send them my way. Would like to contribute more to isfdb, but realize i am quite limited by my modest digital abilities.

Starseeker 2065

Please re-read the responses I left above. Even though I've tried to be explicit as possible, it seems I'm not making myself clear. (Since you are still not signing your messages with four tildes, I can only conclude that you haven't read my message.) About the Werewolf magazine submissions, they're still sitting in the Moderator queue, because it's going to take some work to clean them up. I'm going to accept them, and then in a separate message explain explicitly each of the corrections. Thanks. Mhhutchins 03:41, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Werewolf #9

The submission adding this issue was accepted. Before making any changes I'm going to point out the problems. I'll also need you to answer some questions.

  • Title Field: Magazine issues need to have the title and date/or issue number in the Title Field. (This is explained on this section of the help page, the one I ask you to bookmark and follow its instructions step by step when making submissions to add new publications.) So in this case, it would be "Werewolf Magazine, January 2014" or "Werewolf Magazine, #9 2014" if there is no month dating. Make the appropriate changes based on how the magazine itself is dated.
  • Year Field: You entered the date in the wrong format (I explained the format in a previous message. Here is the help section that explains it in more detail.) It has defaulted to "unknown".
  • Publication Series Field: all of the data should be removed and entered into the Note field. This is a specialized field and the instructions are explained here.)
  • Page Count Field: Unlike books, we count every page of a magazine, including the covers, without regard to how the interior pages are numbered. So the page count of a magazine in quarto format must be a multiple of 4. Perhaps this issue is either 56 or 60?
  • Note Field: I have no idea what this note means, because there is no content record credited to J. Steven Fishcer. Perhaps you failed to enter the content record?
  • Contents Section: Is the piece on page 2 actually credited to "Al. J. Vermette" (note the period after "Al") while the others are credited to "Al J. Vermette"?
  • Is the piece on page 3 "Lycanthrope Confessions" credited to several different authors and is it fiction? (You entered it as a short story.)

Please answer the questions by first clicking on the [edit] link to the right of this message. First enter a colon (to indent your response from my message) and at the end of your response type four tildes (that's the squigley line at the top left of your keyboard, as I explained above.) Mhhutchins 03:57, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Werewolf Issue 3 10 5th Anniversary Issue

Similar problems with this record.

  • Title Field: same situation as in the previous topic.
  • Year Field: same situation as in the previous topic.
  • Page Count Field: same situation as in the previous topic.
  • Publication Series Field: same situation as in the previous topic.
  • Cover Art Field: Were both artists credited for a single collaborative work?
  • Content Section: same situation as in the previous topic about the "Lycanthrope Confessions" piece. Is it fiction and is it credited to several authors?
  • I'm not sure what you mean by "(II)" as the page for the piece titled "The Howling". On what page does it appear in relation to the other numbered pages?
  • The author credit for the piece on page 9 was incorrectly entered. You should enter a space after each period in an initialed name.
  • The interview on page 11 should have been entered into the Interview Section of the entry form, not the content section (it's further down on the page, past the Review Section.)
  • Is the author of the piece on page 17 credited as "James mcMenamin" (uncapitalized last name)?
  • The serial starting on page 23: is its title "Rebirth Part Two", or is it the second part of a work titled "Rebirth"? If the latter, it should be entered as "Rebirth (Part 2 of 2)".

You left important information in the "Note to Moderator" field which should have been entered into the "Note" field. The first field is to provide information about the submission which aids the moderator in determining whether to accept the submission to add the publication to the database. It disappears the moment the submission is accepted and does not become a part of the visible record. The latter field is used to provide additional information about the publication, which you wish the database user to see as part of the record. Here is the message you left in the "Note to Moderator" field, so you can decide whether it should be added to the "Note" field:

Re-Birth is managled in several ways, page missing Part 1, page printed twice in Part 2; title given for part 2 as Rebirth without hyphen; Steven Fischer is still pseudonym of Jeffrey S. Fisher, Garnet Radclliffe 21st century; Part 2 is conclusion, but is not indicated a such, but writing should make this fairly-clear.

Please respond to this message by clicking on the [edit] link to the right of this message. Respond to the questions I've asked here (your response should start with a colon and end with four tildes), and then I will help you in cleaning up the record. Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:15, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Werewolf magazine numbers, 9, 10

Mhhutchins```` I have little idea to be very honest of what I am doing here; I have indeed read your directions - I simply haven't been able yet to understand all of them, the help sections aside. I may not be replying yet in the correct area to your concerns on the above, but hopefully can still answer them. I only began using any databases at all as contrbutor in the past few months, please bear in mind.

1)Werewolf magzine issue # 9, 2009 is 62 pages including covers, unpaiginated pages.

2)Lycanthropy Confessions appears to be short-short stories, so shortstory seemed logical classification; perhaps I did err in not listing authors instead, i.e, Dexter from FL.

3)Al J. Vermette is the correct spelling. the period after Al was another error of mine.

4)J. Steven Fischer was an old variation on my own name, or pesudonym. The magazine accidentally credited ReBirth part 2 to Steven Fischer, minus the J.

Werewolf Magazine issue # 10 2009

1) yes, cover art was a collaboration between the two artists listed; I thought the form made that clear.

2) The Holwing actually began on page 4(unpaginated page).

3)James McMenamin is correct spelling, leigimate error on my part there,

4) total page count is 42 pages including both covers, unpaginated pages.

5) Rebirth Part 2 is, I suppose, how it should read, as it was a two-part serial. the magazine itself didn't make clear it was in two parts, and they also dropped the hyphen from how it was originally spelled, i.e., Re-Birth from part Two.

There were several other errors the fanzine itself made in printing the tale, but I do not believe this section is correct place to discuss those from your other comments.

Sorry about getting the interview in the wrong place; the form IS somewhat confusing on that subject about n-f items.

,Starseeker 2065````

Thanks for responding, but if you'd read my previous messages you would see that you've posted it in the wrong place. Do you not see the [edit] link to the right of each of the messages? That allows you to respond to each one individually. It may seem trivial, but it's the clearest way to communicate in a Wiki environment. The willy-nilly posting of messages leads to much confusion.
I'm going to make corrections to each of the two issues, based on your responses here, and ask you to look them over as a guide to how make future submissions to add magazines/fanzines. There are still many unanswered questions, for example, why the note about the pseudonym in issue 9? Was the first part of "Rebirth" published there? About the page counts, are you certain that it's 62 and 42? Neither is a multiple of 4. That would only work if there are inserted unbound pages. Mhhutchins 21:58, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

The Black Art The Story of the ice Age, etc.


Rollo Ahmed already has an entry, I noted, for much the same type of material as in The black Art. Reasons for rejecting his own book do not seem to make complete sense to me.

{On Rose Wyler, Gerald Ames, the same applies even more, though, as their astronomy book already indexed here, is of the exact same type as The Story of the ice Age, ie.e, non-fiction written for younger readers.

Starseeker 2065````

You're getting closer on the "tilde" key. You typed 4 "accent grave" characters. As shown here: Tilde_Key.jpg, that's the correct key, but you have to hold down the shift-key to actually get the tilde. Chavey 18:58, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

You mention that Rollo Ahmed already has an entry for material similar to that in "The Black Art". But he didn't get added based on the relevance of that one essay, he was added because that essay was part of a book that was clearly speculative fiction. I don't know what Mike's stated reasons were for his rejection, but I would agree with him about rejecting this book. The ISFDB is primarily a database of Speculative Fiction. So when do we include non-fiction in the database? There are pretty much four ways that non-fiction can get it, which I list here in decreasing order of importance, along with how they apply to "The Black Art":
  1. The book is analyzing or discussing speculative fiction: The Black Art is a history of the black arts, and does not appear to claim that anything it's discussing is specifically fiction. As far as I can tell, it does not reference any fiction books included in the database.
  2. The book has been reviewed in a regular speculative fiction journal: We know of no review in any of the standard journals for this title.
  3. It is a non-fiction book by one of the more important authors of speculative fiction: We have no list of any speculative fiction by Rollo, only that one essay.
  4. It is a piece of non-fiction that has been used, and referenced, by many speculative fiction authors as influential in their work: A rarely used category, but it also doesn't apply here.
There may be a few other rare categories that I've overlooked, but this should give you an idea of the intent. You mention the inclusion of the book The Golden Book of Astronomy as comparable to "The Black Arts", but that Astronomy book was reviewed in The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, so it gets in under category 2. (And some of the ISFDB editors would like to limit this category so we didn't include books like this.)
As a newcomer to the ISFDB, it's not surprising that you don't know these categories, but we simply cannot include all books that "might be of interest to science fiction readers". That's not our goal. Our goal is primarily to index works of speculative fiction, and non-fiction books must leap some hurdles in order to get accepted. Chavey 18:58, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

[Posted at the same time as Chavey's and without having read his response.]

The rules for inclusion are explained here. Just because an author has an essay in the database doesn't mean all of his work qualifies for inclusion. In the case of Ahmed, the single piece is from an anthology of mostly horror fiction edited by Peter Haining, which qualifies for inclusion. The reason why the Wyler and Ames book is in the database is because it was reviewed in a notable science fiction magazine. Not all of their books would qualify for inclusion. This is a database for speculative fiction: science fiction (which includes alternate history and dystopian fiction), horror (both supernatural and psychological), fantasy, weird mystery (not natural mystery), magical realism, fabulation, and slipstream. There are exceptions for books about science: they were written by well-known authors of speculative fiction (we call it "above-the-threshold"), or were prominently reviewed in well-known speculative fiction publications. We certainly would not otherwise include pseudo-science books on UFOs, ancient visitors, unexplained phenomenon, etc, even though there are occasion exceptions and works that unconsciously "slip in". If you believe strongly that there are certain borderline works which should be included, present your case to the other editors in a message on the Community Portal. We usually fall on the side of inclusion in most borderline cases. In the case of the works whose submissions I rejected, they seem to me to be clearly not covered under the current inclusion policy. Again, if you disagree, you may find support from other editors.
BTW, this message should have been posted on my talk page, not on your own. No new topic should be started on one's own talk page. It should be started on the page of the person (or group) to whom you wish to receive a response. Now that the discussion has begun, it should continue on this page, and any response you wish to make should be made here.
Also, you seem to still not found the tilde key on your keyboard. If not, just click on the signature icon, the second from the right, when editing or creating a topic, which would automatically date and sign your message. Mhhutchins 19:09, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

[Having now read Chavey's message, it appears we pretty much agree and are saying essentially the same thing. Mhhutchins 19:11, 5 May 2013 (UTC)]

Updating author data

I accepted the submission updating the author data for Don Wilson, but saw that you'd entered the author's legal name in the wrong format. As I noted in a previous message, it should be in the format of LASTNAME, FIRSTNAME MIDDLENAME (or initial). Here is a link to the help page that explains how to update author data. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:40, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Don Wilson;

Mhhutchins' Glad my data on Don Wilson has been of use. He has at least one other similar book out there also from 1970s.
You still need to correct the legal name field, as I explained above. Mhhutchins 21:46, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

[on Warren Smith, and books like his Into the Strange, they really are quite similar to those by Frank Edwards, for example, and Smith did a good many of these in his carrer, plus some straight UFO-related titles.

If it's not fiction, it's not eligible for the database. Please read my previous message about the ISFDB inclusion policy. Mhhutchins 21:46, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

{on magazine entries, there is one more fanzine I have from 1980s which I think would be welcome, but hesitate to enter it, frankly. I understand the magazine entry form better than before, but still find some aspects confusing. Will study this further.

Go ahead and make the submission. If you've read the help page that I've linked to you in a previous message and work around the problems of your previous submissions that were pointed out to you by various moderators, it should be no problem. Mhhutchins 21:46, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

{On somewhat related note, there was a magazine TRANSIT SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY from 1984 - 1985 I have tried for years to locate. Hardly anyone knows it exists til today. It did do one issue in 1984 LOCUS told me; I still have my acceptance letter for some ss of the period, although I don't know if it was actually published. This happened to me least four times in the 1980s with fan,semi-pro, and one prozine. I would like for somebody, somewhere to locate whatever copies exist of TSFF simply see if my little tale was ever published back then. I was never paid anything in any event.


Starseeker 2065````
We can only add data from primary (the publication itself) and reliable secondary sources (such as the Locus database.) If we have neither, we can't create a record on a whim.
Please do me a great favor and read the messages that various moderators have been making here. The content of your responses here leads me to believe you haven't taken the time to read them fully. Mhhutchins 21:31, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Author data for Garnett Radcliffe (1980-)

I had to reject your submission because it made no change in the data. Please tell me here what you want to change and I'll make the submission to change it. We need to know the year of your birth in order to correct the author name. Mhhutchins 22:17, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

dob, etc.

Have tried again on my dob -if succcessful trust will make clear least part of the reason I am having this much difficulty with the isfdb.

regarding TRANSIT magazine, additional data if it helps anybody locate copies; was published orignally in Pheonix, AZ, Bullet Pubications, publisher, editor Jim Tiffin, later in Bullhead City, AZ. I take it from my letter that my little tale(which I do not know now the title of, my records almost all long gone from then) to have appeared in their Spring, 1985 issue(#2, I am assuming). This is not, of course, any sort of an effort to enter the title, more an information request. I suspect magazine was circulated only in western USA at most. Actual title was Transit A Science Fiction & Fantasy Magazine.

No issues for this magazine have been entered into the Locus database, nor is it included in the definitive sf database for magazines: Miller/Contento. Mhhutchins 22:55, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

brief comment to let everyone know I understand about the inclusion of n-f books, now. W/O searching the reviews for Gal., Analog, etc. al. for the year in question, it would be rather difficult to guess what might, might not be a good candidate unless an overlooked title by a major author, perhaps.

'Starseeker 2065 ````

Those reviews published in the major sf magazines have all been entered into the database. In most cases, publication records have been created for those non-fiction books. If they weren't, it's because the original editor felt they didn't deserve to have a separate publication record. Mhhutchins 22:52, 5 May 2013 (UTC)


year/birth 1965

month April

date 17

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Starseeker 2065 (talkcontribs) .

Then it should be entered as "1965-04-17", the format explained to you in a previous posting. I'll make the correction. This should have been posted as a response to the previous message. Creating new topics to respond to previously posted topics makes this page very hard to read, and makes it even more difficult for the original poster to see whether you've responded. Please use the [edit] link to the right of the message to respond to that one specific message. This has been pointed out to you more than once. Also, end your post with four tildes, which again has been pointed out to you again and again. Mhhutchins 22:49, 5 May 2013 (UTC)


sorry, pal. If it makes people happy, I shall not try to contribute anything further.

'Starseeker 2065````

No, it doesn't make anyone happy to lose a contributor. It does make us happy when new editors understand that there may be difficulty in learning how to edit the database, but persevere with the help of those who have been in the same position they are. Please read the advice that several of us have taken considerable effort to impart to you, read the step-by-step instructions on this page, and reconsider your decision. Mhhutchins 00:00, 6 May 2013 (UTC)


Look, friend, I wish everyone was a natural-born wizard at computing, and etc. al, but the simple truth, many of us are not. That does not make us fools, or dunces, of course, but it can make us uncomfortable, to put it mildly.

I do not wish to get into any sort of exhange of insults, either, but I do see why a # of people don't wish to try, and contribute to the isfdb.It is considerable effort after all, I think we can agree.

It is unfortunate; I need both more experience with computers, and better equipment as well, but many out here simply don't have either at thistime. I supect many here have grown up with all things digital, and so it is second nature to them, no doubt(or have occupations in which they learned same much earlier on). Again, same cannot apply to everyone, and I hope people will, if nothing else, appreciate that in my case. I have tried to be helpful, and think I have in some manner. I do have a good deal more in general I could share being a fan since age six, or seven, so a shame.

'Starseeker 2065````


I'm sorry to say this has left something of a bad taste with me; I may well not write any further in this field, actually. In nay case, I have enough problems to deal with than curt remarks here

Straseeker 2065 ````

The Pulp Collector, #1

I accepted your submission for this fanzine. I needed to make a few corrections. If you wish, I invite you to verify that these are correct. The changes I made were:

  • We always enter "Letters to the Editor" as simply "Letter" (e.g., see NewPubs:Letters to the Editor), so I changed those content entries from "Letters Page".
  • We have a slightly odd standard for magazines, so to meet those standards, I changed the title from "The Pulp Collector" to "The Pulp Collector, Vol. 1, #1, Spring 1985". I also removed the annotation about the publication series being "V1 #1", because "publications series" are (for us) a different thing from magazine series.
  • I changed the title of one entry from "Odds and Ends" to "Odds and Ends: From the Pulpwoody Bookshelf" both because we tend to include those sub-titles (separated by semi-colons, as I did here), and because we try to differentiate titles with very similar names (and there were already 10 other titles in the database with that name).
  • You had one title as by "Will Murray" and another as co-authored by "Wil Murray" (one "l"), so I corrected the second one to "Will" (two "l"s).
  • You had one title listed as "The Immortal Big Noer Serrano". I corrected "Noer" to "Nose".
  • I added a publication date of "1985-00-00", which is how we indicate something known to have been published in 1985, but with no specified month. (Which includes vague dates like "Spring".)

It's not a "correction", but I also converted "Jeffrey Fisher" to be an alias for "Garnett Radcliffe (1965-)", to ensure that all of your work ends up indexed on the same bibliography page. Chavey 04:06, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

The Pulp Collector

Chavey: Your corrections on the above seem fine. I understand a bit more how to enter issues, now, thanks.

Starseeker 2065 ````

additonalnote on Everett B. Cole which should probably be related elsewhere, but his dod is incorrect. I saw he was still giving permission for stories reprinted around 1983. So, obviously, his dod line should be left blank. Do not have the book in question, but remember noting this fact quite firmly.

'Starseeker 2065 ` ` ` `

Cole's death date of 1977 is listed as such in Wikipedia, Project Gutenberg, the Science Fiction Encyclopedia, and elsewhere. So for now, we would have to assume that if "he" was giving reprint permissions, that it was actually "his estate" or "his literary agent" that was doing that. However, I see that the online Science Fiction Encyclopedia removed his death date from their entry for him last January, after having it listed as 1977 for some time, so it may be that there is some doubt to that date. But we would have to have a solid source before changing it.
I am concerned that you are still not signing your notes here with the "four ~" signature that we keep asking you to use. I suspect that means that you are not actually reading the posts that I and others are putting here, so I question whether there is any value in my continuing to do so. Chavey 22:08, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Everett B. Cole

Chavey: you may, of curse, continue to list dod 1977 for Mr. Cole, but the other sources for that date you cite seem to have been taken from my own original research in early- mid-1990s. My Understanding is that many life/death dates were given to Mr. Reginald for his references then, and the arrors seem to just have kept soreading on Wikieadia, atc. al. I was very new to bibliography at that time, and made several errors, i.e. J.F. Bone, Frank A. Javor, etc, some of which were noted in Locus ca. 1996. Cole sticks in my memory simply because I had thought '77 his correct dats for some time.

I do apologize for my mistakes, etc., in leaving messages. I am a novice, after all. I do hope I have been able to point out a few oversights and such all the same.

"Starseeker 2065 ````

P.S. I was the one who pointed out to the EoSF that 1977 was most likely wrong date fyi; there are so many Everett Coles, his dates will be very difficult to trace for certain, unless some family members see it, and come forward to point out what is correct.

I verified your belief that Mr. Cole did not die in 1977, and located the correct obituary for him. His correct dates of life and death are (17 April 1910 - 21 August 2001). I have added additional biographical information about him in our "Biography" link on his Summary Page. I have passed this information on to Wikipedia and SFE. Chavey 17:36, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

E.B. Cole, David J. Michael 'Death Tour'

The thought occurrs to me that since Everett B. Cole was a professional soldier, there must surely be records of him in various military databases. Someone can follow up on this, and perhaps definitvely settle his dod.

I Believe I was asked about David J. Michael's novel, Death Tour, and the cover art to the 1979 edition. Somebody else ma have answered by now, but yes, the red cover with the green alligator is the edition I have.

'Starseeker 2065 `` ` `I note that many of the dates you use in the isfdb were originally located by myself years ago; I won't say which, but I did get many more correct than I did wrong.

I was accused of not reading the various postings, which isn't correct. I undoubtedly have simply misunderstood them in so far as how to sign myself, and the like.
for whatever it's worth, I most likely was reading, writing fan letters, etc., before a number of people here were born to judge from the ages of many of the authors listed.

<Starseeker 2065>````


Ms. Chavey: I see that you're a professional in computer science(which I pretty much expected) and seem considerably younger than myself, which I also suspected.

You seem to accept almost everything you find online as being accurate, and such in as much as u questioned my data on EB Cole. Feel free to contact John Clute if you wish re: my help to TEoSF over the years, and he will confirm to you that I am most often a reliable source for author dates, even when correcting errors. The great majority of those I sent him in the 1990s were, indeed, accurate. It's frsutrating to me that some of the mistakes have spread through cyberspace so far, though, and I have been trying to correct those myself whenever I can. Cole's seems to be one of the last such, in fact, which hasn't been.

I take it you were behind the decision to ignore my other efforts at isfdb to judge from your comments. Did it ever occurr to you that your OWN efforts might not be considered to be of al that much value, lady? You seem something of a wsieacre in any case, so it's a pleasure to not deal with you.


We appreciate everyone's contributions, but please note that, as per Blocking Policy, personal attacks are not acceptable. Please see the linked page for further information on recognized offenses and blocking. Hopefully none of it will be necessary as things cool down and we all return to regular editing activities. Ahasuerus 17:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Your research on me appears to have been somewhat flawed. Firstly: I am not "Ms." Chavey, nor "lady". I am male, and the correct title is either "Dr. Chavey" or "Prof. Chavey". Secondly: Assuming your author bio is correct, I am substantially older than you, and have been reading science fiction since before you were born. Thirdly: So far as I know, I have not been involved in any "decision to ignore [your] other efforts at isfdb". I have never rejected a submission of yours. You have had 13 submissions accepted, 3 by me. Finally, you ask "Did it ever occurr to you that your OWN efforts might not be considered to be of al that much value, lady?" I have made 30,584 submissions to the ISFDB. I am satisfied with the value that other editors have placed on those efforts. Chavey 22:36, 12 May 2013 (UTC)


Perhaps you need to update your page, friend; think most of the fault lies there, not with me.

If I am annoyed, it is because you have seemingly done a good job of making me feel like something of an idiot here, and understandably, I don't appreciate that. Who would, after all?

Anyway, for whatever it's worth, I have "asked around," and this database is not as, how should I say it, uiniversally loved, perhaps? as many here seem to think.*

In any case, I amhappy to lay off amy personal attacks/insults if same is provided to me, hardly a great deal to ask, I must say. A shame in many ways, I have been a longtime fan, corrosponded with Donald Tuck, Gerry de la Ree, Art Widner, Basil Wells, Don Wilcox, etc. al, and really only encountered nice things from them.

I hope for the same here, people(isfdb users in general); it may be my novice status, but it does seem the format is overly-complicated for reasons I don't find immediately clear. Some basic civility even to those of us who are poor with computers, databases, etc., is, again, not so much to ask, is it?

My regards,

'Starseeker 2065````

  • I will keep any names there private.
There have been no personal attacks and/or insults directed at you. What you wrote immediately above falls under the "non-constructive or disruptive behavior" clause of the Blocking Policy rules that I linked previously, so I will suspend your account for 24 hours to give you time to reconsider your actions here. Ahasuerus 23:08, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Hello, Starseeker! You are right in that the format here is somewhat complicated. But as I have found it does need to be so! (And I have had my difficulties in the beginning, see my talk page, as - I presume - will have all editors). But this site is really unique in that it does support not only publications and titles, but also variant titles, different languages, publisher summaries, publication series and some more features. I think the pending interactions do necessarily lead to some complexity, through which one has to dig in one way or another. We have the immense luck not only to have 'normal' contributors but also software developers, who do their best to reflect the complexity. Stonecreek 08:14, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Chavey, EB Cole, etc.

Hello again; I am pleased the old error regarding Everett B. Cole has now been corrected - I am sure a great many appreciate it.

I am also happy that, in a small way, I have been of some help here both with Mr. Cole's actual dod, and adding a few new publications. I feel it justifies my effort here.

However, I have a # of other issues to try, and address aside from sf/f/h interests, includ. some personal matters, and so forth. So, I will simply say again that I am pleased to have been of some help despite a few rough spots, but, for the present, anyway, it is time for me to move on.


'Starseeker 2065````

Kenneth F. Gantz

It did occurr to me that I probably was the originator of the curretn dates for Mr. Gantz, which was very early in my efforts at such research. A more recent date of 1905 - 1996 MAY be correct. In any case, he was apparently in the Air Force as well as being a technical writer for them, so, solid dates ought to be available for him in military databases.


'Starseeker 2065````

You are correct in those revised dates. I don't have access to the military databases, but my research on Kenneth Gantz, shown here agrees with your suppositions. Chavey 12:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC)