User talk:Sjmathis

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Hello, Sjmathis, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Ahasuerus 12:17, 15 Feb 2008 (CST)


Thanks for submitting the Dell edition of Emphyrio! I have approved the submission and changed the binding from "paperback" to "pb" as per our Help pages. I also changed the catalog ID to "#2345" as per our Help and moved the SBN, i.e. "0-440-02345", to the Notes field. The early 1970s were confusing in that paperback publishers like Dell began moving from publisher-specific catalog IDs (like "2345") to the ISBN system, but it took them a number of years to start using the same system as the one that hardcover publishers use. The "SBNs", which were basically abbreviated ISBNs, were used in parallel with catalog IDs for a while and are a pain to catalog -- see Help for details. Thanks for the submission! :-) Ahasuerus 12:23, 15 Feb 2008 (CST)

P.S. And could you please check the price on the cover of the Dell edition? Thanks! Ahasuerus 12:25, 15 Feb 2008 (CST)
Sorry, I didn't enter it because it was carefully blacked out by one of the used book stores it went through. However, I see that someone has entered it since then. Also, my apologies for taking so long to answer this question, I've only very recently figured out how to use the wiki. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sjmathis (talkcontribs) .

Scholastic printings of The Missing Persons League

Hi. I accepted your submissions of Scholastic printings of The Missing Persons League. Do you know that they really were printed in 1976, or do you see no date in the books? We have discovered that the number line encodes the date. If you let me know what the number lines are for the two books (if they are present), I can help you decipher them. Thanks, and thank you for the contributions. --MartyD 10:12, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi again. I'm copying your response here, just to keep the whole discussion together. You can "reply" to messages by editing the section (click on the "Edit" link to the far right of the particular section header. Protocol is for people who leave messages on someone's talk page to watch that page for a response. So you should just reply right here. Colons (":") at the beginning of a block of text indent it, one level per colon. Use one more colon than the previous message did. And "sign" your message using four tildes ("~~~~") or the 2nd button from the right at the top of the editor window (the icon looks like a scrawled signature). --MartyD 19:43, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Here is your response to the above questions:
You left a question asking if the "date of printing" of "The Missing Persons League" was really 1976.
I don't know, the book says: "Copyright (C) 1976 by Frank Bonham" and I assumed that was what I was supposed to fill into the spot where I put it.
The number line looks like this:
12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1    3    8 9/7 0 1 2 3/8
Below that is:
Printed in the U. S. A.                     06
Hope this is helpful. If you have another question for me, please just send an e-mail: sjmathis (at) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sjmathis (talkcontribs) .
Yes, this is very helpful. Here are a few tips:
  • The date to enter for a book is its publication/printing date, which often is not the copyright date. For example, reprints usually carry along the original copyright date (because that doesn't change), while stating a new printing date. In the case here, where you have multiple printings, one of them is unlikely to be 1976 (and perhaps both). If it's not a first printing, we would use "0000-00-00" (indicating an unknown publication date), not the copyright date.
So the correct date to enter would be 1978-03-00? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sjmathis (talkcontribs) .
  • I asked about the number line because Scholastic encodes the printing date in the number line. Check this out. So in the number line above, we see it's a 1st printing (from the 12...1 -- the lowest remaining number in this sort of pattern indicates the current printing number; 12...2 would indicate a 2nd printing) in March (that middle "3"), of 1978 ("8 9/7 0 1 2 3/8" means "1978 1979 1980 1981 1983 1983" and, again, the lowest number indicates the current year; a 1977 printing would be "7 8 9/7 0 1 2/8"; a 1979 printing would be "9/7 0 1 2 3 4/8").
So question 1: Which of 0-525-35030-6 or #TK 4102 does the above number line go with? And question 2: What does the other one have for a number line? Thanks! --MartyD 19:43, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, it goes with the TK 4102 book. I only have that one.
Many thanks for your patience. I've figured out that the reason I couldn't edit a talk page was that I wasn't logged into the wiki. I assumed that logging into the ISFDB was enough to get you into the wiki, but I see now that it is a separate process. I've cleared that hurdle, so perhaps I will be able to join in on some of the discussions. Between now and next spring, we plan to re-wallpaper the room that holds my SF books. This means that they have to packed up and moved down the hall, where they will sit in boxes until we finish. As they go back onto shelves, I plan to check everything against my database, so perhaps I will be able to check things against the ISFDB also. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sjmathis (talkcontribs) .
No problem! I hope you'll be doing much contributing and checking! :-) It takes a little getting used to, but eventually it all makes sense. So yes, the date should be 1978-03-00. You can go ahead and update it. It sounds like the other pub got entered in error, so I will remove it (no harm done). Thanks! --MartyD 23:16, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Uploading images

The Step-by-Step Procedure is for uploading images directly to the Wiki pages. The "Save" refers to adding a license tag to each image. We have added an easier method since that procedure was first implemented. In the instructions for the procedure below ("The Semi-Automated Procedure", which you used) there is no need to add a license because it's done for you. All you have to do now is make a submission linking the image you uploaded to the publication record in the db. First copy the URL of the image you uploaded (here), go to the publication record, click on "Edit This Pub" under the Editing Tools menu, go down to the field for "Image URL", and paste the URL into it, then "Submit Data". Mhhutchins 19:31, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

OK, I see. Not hard once you know how to do it. Thanks for the quick response. Sjmathis 03:03, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Empire Builders by Bova

I accepted the submission adding this second printing to the db, but changed the date to 0000-00-00, which indicates an undated printed. Tor will give the date of the first edition, but remove a number in the printing line to indicate a later, undated, printing. If the source of your data is the pub itself, please do a primary verification. If it isn't, please give the source of your data in the record's note field. Thanks. Mhhutchins 06:31, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I have the book itself, but I'm not sure what you mean by "a primary verification". The verification process is baffling. I have copies of many of the books that I see in the database that are 'unverified' but I haven't been able to figure out what I'm supposed to do (if anything) to "verify" them, so I haven't tried to do anything. I don't know what "primary" means. I'm not sure what all the other kinds of verification involve. I'd be happy to help confirm things, but I can't find any basic instructions on how to do that.
The real reason that I dropped the book into the database was to attempt to get a response from someone, since I couldn't figure out how to send a question to whoever maintains the page for Ben Bova's work. I have a database of my own books that I'm working on and I'm trying to figure out what the sequence of Ben's Grand Tour books should be. I have a field in my database called 'series' where I record the name of the series and the sequence number. I use this to control the shelving of my books, since I like to keep the series together. Anyway, I was working on the Grand Tour series, and the ISFDB lists the book "Empire Builders" as part of the series (but doesn't give it a sequence number - not sure why some in a series have numbers and some don't?). However, if you look at the cover scan, you'll notice that it says the book is a sequel to the book "Privateers", which is NOT included as part of the GT series. Why not? I would include it.
Another question I had was why the GT number sequence in the ISFDB was missing entries between 5 and 16? I can see that the 'Moonrise' and 'Asteroids' series fits in there somewhere, but that's only 6 books. Where are the other 5?
Thanks, --Sjmathis 14:33, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Here's a page which provides a list of links to specific areas in the Help section. Among those links you'll find a answer to most of your questions. For example: How to verify data.
About the Grand Tour: it's a mess and the author hasn't helped the situation. I've come to the conclusion that the numbering is entirely arbitrary. On the author's website, he insists there is no internal order, and it's not necessary to read the books in order. And since their his books, I think we need to use the order as they're listed on his website. The trouble occurs because there are subseries ("Moonrise" and "The Asteroid Wars") within the overall title series. A title can't have two different numbers so that causes another problem. I'm going to give Empire Builders and others the number given on the author's website but leave the subseries as is. That will leave gaps in the numbering but I can see no other way around it. Thanks.Mhhutchins 15:51, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
I think the reason Empire Builders is a sequel to Privateers, and the latter is not a part of the Grand Tour series, is because real-world politics caught up with Bova before he wrote the sequel. According to the Wikipedia article, the Soviet Union's collapse made Privateers into an alternate reality. I also found another problem. The Return (2009) is listed as number 17 on the author's Grand Tour list, but it's also the fourth volume of the Voyager series. So why aren't the first three books part of the Grand Tour? Now you see the problems with trying to order Bova's titles. Mhhutchins 16:08, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Many thanks for your comments and assistance. I hope to be able to repay some of the help people have given me by adding information to the ISFDB, once I get my collection back onto shelves. Right now my priority has to be getting the rest of my shelving stained and assembled. My worry is that despite increasing my shelf space by nearly 50%, I still don't have enough space, so I may still have problems in that regard.
I had read the wiki help pages on verification, but either they've improved or I didn't read them closely enough, as I understand the process now, I think. Again, I plan to pursue that as soon as my books are out of shopping bags and back on shelves. I went through the verification process for 'Empire Builders', and it seemed to go smoothly.
I see the problems in trying to order the GT series. I had seen Ben's Chronology page some time ago, but I had forgotten that it existed. If you're going to use his chronology for the ISFDB numbering and leave some spaces, then perhaps you could indicate that the blanks are there on purpose and don't represent missing books. A pointer to his page might help, maybe on the series page. Sorry if I've opened a can of worms, but the series information is important to me in helping to identify things I'm missing and would like to have, so I'm making an effort to get it into my database.
Thanks again. --Sjmathis 14:38, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
We can't leave notes directly on author pages, but we can create a Series Comment page and there already is an author's Bibliographic Comments page (which has no data currently). When I get a chance I'll create the Series Comment page and note the source of the sequence (with a link to Bova's website) and explain the missing numbers. Thanks. Mhhutchins 16:28, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Your comment "I have copies of many of the books that I see in the database that are 'unverified' makes me think you'll be a very useful addition to our editing staff! Please do keep commenting on the editing/verifying processes, or about the help - us old fogies have got far too used to the current situation and are not in the best position to see where we could improve - newcomers almost always provide the better suggestions. Welcome! BLongley 15:22, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

The Centrifugal Rickshaw Dancer

I saw that you'd created a comments page for this publication. It's perfectly OK to place such information in the record itself. Click on "Edit This Pub", and in the Note field enter "Cover design by Richard Corben", This way it's actually part of the record and visible for all users to see. The comments page is usually reserved for questions, concerns, comments, etc about the publication. Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 18:06, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I thought I was doing that, but it didn't turn out that way. Must of missed something in the process of adding the information. I wasn't sure how to handle it, since the database showed a different artist than what the copyright page of my book said. I didn't see any reference to the artist shown in the database in the book itself, yet the book has been verified, so I assume the info in the database is correct? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sjmathis (talkcontribs) .
Actually the only verification is yours. If James Gurney is not credited in the book, you should remove it from the record and credit Corben in the cover artist field. (BTW, don't forget to sign your Wiki messages with four tildes.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:26, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry. My memory isn't what it used to be. Anyway, I went ahead and made the change in the cover artist. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to do that, since it wasn't clear to me that the cover 'designer' was the same as the cover 'artist', and I was assuming that the person who entered that information had a source of data that wasn't from the book. I guess if that is the case, they will explain it in another 'note'? Is there a way to tell who entered the original data and ask them where they got the idea that James Gurney was the artist? Also, thanks for the reminder about the tildes. Sjmathis 13:49, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
No, there's no way to tell who entered the original data (well, there is one that would take so much time and effort that it wouldn't be worth it.) As a moderator, I try to encourage all editors to record their sources in the record's note field. Other moderators aren't as insistent as me. So we get situations where a record is updated, without sources and without a verification. That's why it's very good that another person with a copy of the same book can look over the record and verify it. As for "design" or "artist": some credits are ambiguous, so I've set up my own personal protocol. If a book only has the cover designer, I give him/her credit in the cover artist field. If it credits both designer and I artist, I credit the artist in the cover artist field and credit the designer in the record's note field. Can you look at other covers by Corben and see if the cover of this book could be by the same artist? His work is very distinctive and should be recognizable. Unfortunately, the image for this record is so small, it's hard for me to see enough detail to determine if Corben was the artist (although from what I can tell, it looks like his work.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 16:28, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Note that I accepted the change of the artist to Corben based on this page. Hauck 16:47, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
I uploaded a new cover scan, and in the process, noticed a partial signature on the back of the blue helmeted guy in the lower left corner: "@ 1985 Corb...". Anyway, it's pretty clear now that the correct artist is Corben, which still leaves me wondering how Gurney's name got put in there. Thanks to all for the help. Sjmathis 13:49, 5 September 2011 (UTC)


Hello. I've just approved your sub for the Avon 1980 edition but the information you added : "Based on material appearing in 'Science Fantasy' as "Skeleton Crew", 1963" is already avaliable at the title level here, so it is perhaps redundant. Hauck 17:59, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Didn't see it before. I stuck it in because it was stated on the copyright page. I also just uploaded a cover scan for it. Don't see an artist anywhere. Sjmathis 18:12, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Help! I've uploaded a cover scan for this printing of Earthworks, but I don't exactly know how to get it to appear in the ISFDB. I gather that I need to "paste in the URL of the uploaded file" using "edit this pub", but I'm at a loss as to how to determine what the URL of the file that I uploaded is? Sjmathis 19:59, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
The URL you want is You can normally right-click on the image when you've uploaded it and choose "Copy Image Location" (or the equivalent in your browser) to get it. BLongley 20:11, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
The problem is that I closed the page that had the image on it and then I couldn't find it. When I did find it, or so I thought, I did what you suggested and it gave me an error message to the effect that I was trying to insert a URL that was from the wiki and not a file reference. I see you have inserted (or the system did) the 'nowiki' tags around the URL that you entered above. Do I need to do that? When I cut and pasted the URL as it appears in my User Talk (where I can't see the 'nowiki' tags), it seemed to work fine and I got the usual message that my edit of the pub needs to be approved by a moderator. Baffling. Sjmathis 21:55, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
You can find uploaded image files by clicking the link labeled "File List" on most wiki pages and you'll get this page. Submissions updating or adding database records are moderated. Uploading of images files to the ISFDB server and the editing of wiki pages are not moderated. Your submission adding the image to this record has been accepted. Mhhutchins 22:42, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Second printing of Who Can Replace a Man?

You've made a submission to update this record, but I believe you're misinterpreting the data. This record is for Signet's second printing. Even though it gives the publication date of the first printing (for which we have a record), it does not give a date for this second printing. Every publisher has a different way of indicating editions and/or printings. This is Signet's method. Please confirm the data, and then, either cancel the submission, or post your response here. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:41, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

You're right. I was trying to reflect the fact that the second printing has a line on the copyright page that states: "First Printing, November 1967". The fact that it's the second printing, appears on another line. How do I cancel the submission? Sjmathis 18:52, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
On the front page of the database, there's a menu under the name "Logged In As". There's a link to "My Pending Edits". Click on that and then there should be list of all pending edits. As there's only one in the queue, that's the one you cancel. I can also reject it from the submission queue, but it's good to know how to cancel submissions if you realize you've made a mistake and want to resubmit. I'm going to copy the new data you entered into the submission's note field and place it into the record, but keep the unknown dating. Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:10, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

The Omega Cage - notes

I added notes to your verified The Omega Cage. AndonSage 12:22, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

A Midsummer Tempest

Your attempt to add an image to this record was rejected because the data entered into the Image URL field was incomplete. You only gave the file name: MDSMMRTMPS1978.jpg, and should have given the entire URL: Please try again. Thanks. (The reason we have to put the nowiki tags around URLs here on the wiki pages is because they would appear as links, and not the actual URL.) Mhhutchins 22:47, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

OK, I tried it again. I still don't see the link "File List" anywhere. Sjmathis 00:37, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
I guess it depends on what skin you're using. I use Cologne Blue and the link is under "Special Pages" on all my wiki pages. If you use the default skin (Monobook), you have to click on "Special Pages" and go down to the "File List" link. Mhhutchins 00:54, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
OK, I see it now. I didn't realize that I had to open the Special Pages link first. The Special Pages link is inside a box called Toolbox. Many thanks for your patience. I'm running Mozilla Firefox with whatever the default skin is.Sjmathis 13:27, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
I believe I found it earlier, but I don't see it now. I did open the link to it that you gave in the other edit above, but again, all I see is the file name. I was doing two things at once, so I'm not sure exactly what I did to get the URL entered for Earthworks. At one point I tried putting "image:" in front of the file name, since that seems to be what the instructions say to do when you upload a file, but I guess that didn't work. Sjmathis 00:37, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Click on the word "file" next to the name of the file. This will open the image in your browser. Just copy the URL that's in your browser's address window, and this is the URL you should enter in the URL Image field in a pub record update. Mhhutchins 00:54, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Also, thanks for restoring the rest of my talk page. In the discussion of Earthworks, I used the nowiki tag with angle brackets around it and I guess the page interpreted it as a command to take things literally, or else it screwed things up because I didn't have a closing tag. The 'four tildes' didn't work, and I couldn't figure out what was going on. I dropped the rest of my page in desperation, and couldn't figure out how to get it back after I had saved my edit. Anyway, things seem to be working now, and I'll keep trying to upload properly. At least I learned to always use the Preview option to make sure that my page isn't messed up. Sjmathis 00:37, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Yep, everything looks good now. The submission's image came through. Mhhutchins 00:54, 7 October 2011 (UTC)


Your note to the moderator said that you'd changed the ISBN for this record, but the submission only added the Canadian price, without any change in the ISBN. Mhhutchins 05:27, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm holding another submission to change the spelling of the cover artist's name from "Stephan" to "Stephen" based on a third-party site. If the book's cover art is not credited in the book itself, you should use a primarily-verified source in which the same artwork is credited, such as the record of the hardcover edition. Mhhutchins 05:33, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps I forgot to hit the 'submit' button when I changed the ISBN. I'll try it again. The record shows 978-0-812-57120-2, whereas the book has 978-0-8125-7120-2. Perhaps the position of the dash isn't considered important? I realize that it is ignored when computing the check digit, but I thought it should match the book. Sjmathis 13:52, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
ISBNs are stored without hyphens internally, then reformatted by the software into ISBN-10 and ISBN-13. So a difference in hyphenation in the book won't show up as a change. BLongley 14:02, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Interesting. Thanks very much for the explanation. I guess the 'software' isn't smart enough to realize that different publishers format the ISBN in different ways. In the old days, it used to be '0' - 'Publisher code' - 'book number' - 'check digit'. Now I've seen them in several formats, even from the same publisher. I was wondering if the 'software' re-computes the check digit, or is it stored with the numbers? Sjmathis 15:03, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Well, we could code exceptions in for certain publishers that don't follow the rules, but it's never seemed worth the effort. Especially now we're coping with non-English editions a bit better - we've got over 12,000 publishers and that will only increase. BLongley 15:37, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
We do store the check-digit entered, and warn when it's invalid, but re-generate it when creating the other ISBN: so we'd spot an ISBN-10 with an invalid check digit, but if it's valid then we can generate the ISBN-13. Or vice versa. There was a bit of an argument over what to do when the publisher gets it wrong (we all agree the error should be recorded, just not how to record it) and we do have problems with some "rebound" editions where they have different ISBNS externally on the new covers and internally on the copyright page. BLongley 15:37, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
With regard to the spelling of the artist's name, I agree with your comment. I didn't think to look at the other edition. In fact, now that I look again, although the name doesn't appear on the copyright page, I found it on the back cover of the book, and it's spelled with an "a", not an "e". I presume Carver spelled it incorrectly on his website. Sjmathis 13:52, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Interesting. This time I looked carefully at the submission of the record after I had changed the ISBN, and the change I made doesn't appear in the record that I submitted. Again, perhaps the ISFDB has a standardized way to present the ISBN and it has to have the dash after the three characters of the publisher code? I'm not sure what's going on, so I'll defer to your decision as to what to do next. Anyway, the record as presented doesn't exactly match the book. Sjmathis 14:01, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Images/moderator note

Any time you have a book which record does not have an image or an incorrect one then please upload one, regardless of how minor a difference between it and another edition/printing. Also, it is considered polite [and sometimes necessary] to inform an editor if you have added an image to a record that has been Primary Verified. Not all publishers are consistent with printing information and while a book may seem to be identical to the record, that may not always be the case. By letting a Verifier know, so he/she can check, it lessens the possibility of attaching an image to an incorrect record and sometimes points out the need for an additional record for an slightly different edition/printing. Cheers! --~ Bill, Bluesman 21:19, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. In this case, I was the Primary Verifier, so I didn't bother to mention it in the "Notes to Moderator". Hope that's OK. Sjmathis 21:54, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
But in [this] case, another editor had previously verified the record. That's the one I was thinking about in the above note. --~ Bill, Bluesman 02:25, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
You're right. Sorry, I was doing several things at once. Can you explain how I go about contacting him? I tried clicking on his name in the verification record, but it just brings up a blank page, where I was expecting a User Talk page? Sjmathis 02:35, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Don's a bit shy it seems - his "User page" is still blank, but click the "Discussion" Tab next to it and you can leave him a message. BLongley 02:46, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Amazon Images

Any Amazon image that has ZZZZZZZZ as part of the URL is inherently unstable. Amazon doesn't use such URLs any more but there are perhaps thousands still on our database. Such were generated as pre-publication images usually and as soon as another edition/printing came out the image would be changed or at least given a different URL. At that point the previous ZZZZZ URL links to nothing, thus the blank image. If you run across such URLs, whether it's become blank or not, and you have the book, definitely upload a new image or just replace the one that's there [sooner or later all ZZZZZ URLs will become unstable]. --~ Bill, Bluesman 21:29, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Line breaks in notes

If you want the notes to appear as separate lines a simple carriage return/return from the keyboard doesn't suffice. The software simply doesn't recognize it. You have to use an html break, the simplest of which is <br>. [This] will give you the idea, if [this] is how you want the notes to appear. Otherwise the notes will read as one long line. FYI! --~ Bill, Bluesman 02:19, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Got it. Thanks very much. Sjmathis 02:23, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


See [here] under Publication Type for a general explanation. Tor Doubles never printed novel-length pieces while most of the Ace halves were touted as novels [we know quite a few weren't...]. It's not always black and white. In future, if you have such questions, it gets more attention if you use the [Help Desk] or [FAQ] page. We also have the [Moderator Noticeboard] and the [Community Portal] for specific requests and general discussions. For policy questions/discussions there is [Rules and Standards]. The advantage of any of these is more input. Only one Moderator would see a question in the notes as you've done a couple, whereas any number of editors/moderators will see something posted on any of the above pages. It's worth just browsing some of the discussions on each just to get a feel for the place. Easier to direct the next question, too. --~ Bill, Bluesman 15:36, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Anthony's Mute

A suggestion: if you're verifying a pub record (like this one) and if there are fields which include data that is not stated in the book, you should mention that in the record's note field. So if the date isn't given in the book, add something like "Publication date is not stated. The source for this record's date is ..." (either give a source or say it's unknown.) In this case, the source is Locus1, which unfortunately, the editor before you failed to note. (We're trying to crack down on these situations but that's a hard row to hoe.) Hope this helps. Mhhutchins 18:49, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

You say in the moderator note that you don't have access to Locus, but the source is Locus1 which you do have access to if you have an internet connection. :) Click on the link I gave for Locus1 above. Mhhutchins 19:11, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
OK. I see. More to learn about. :) Sjmathis 19:17, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Co-author credit order

Sorry, the ISFDB software doesn't recognize the order in which co-authors are credited. Any attempt to "re-order" will, most of the time, be fruitless. Mhhutchins 01:43, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

OK. I guess that when you're dealing with 'virtual' books it doesn't make much difference. For Lee and Miller, it also doesn't matter much, because they write everything together, but for many other authors, who write with others and independently, I have to decide how to shelve the book, and generally I go by the senior (first listed) author, so the order matters to me.
Do you have any idea why the same book is listed differently in the ISFDB HC, TP, & PB versions? I was assuming that it is stored separately, which is reasonable, as I could imagine two authors talking, "Well, I was first on the HC release, you can be first on the TP and MMPB version." Since I generally only see the PB version, I was assuming that the other formats really list the authors differently. --Sjmathis 13:47, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
No, ISFDB cannot and probably never will tell you the author-ordering. I suspect it's because we do author-pages but not collaboration pages - so on Pohl's page, books with Kornbluth get "with C. M. Kornbluth" and if you look at it from Kornbluth's side you get "with Frederik Pohl". If, as I suspect, we have totally given up on the idea then we need to stop reporting a mismatch when merging "A&B" titles with "B&A" ones. BLongley 17:43, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Interesting. It's important to me, since my database has to be able to tell me how the book should be shelved. I keep track of author order and whether or not the book is shelved by that author. So for example, for an Ace Double, I pick one of the authors to shelve the book, and indicate that in my database. For a multiple author book, the senior author gets a flag indicating that the book is shelved under this author, and the other authors have a blank in that flag. I keep track of the order by a pointer that points to the next author, and when it is null, you're at the end of the chain. It isn't that complex, but I realize that adding that to your schema would be a very serious project. Thanks for the info. --Sjmathis 20:20, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Replacing images hosted by ISFDB

When you are replacing an existing image that's hosted by the site, always hit/click the "Ignore Warnings" button. The software always warns when there is an existing image linked to a particular tag/record. Once the image is changed it will automatically be displayed in the record. There's nothing you have to do at that end. However, the old image should be deleted, though it doesn't have to be. I went into the Upload Log and got rid of the original image, edited the data so you would appear as the uploader. Then I deleted the image with the 'x' appended to the tag as that one wasn't really directly linked to the record. Cheers! --~ Bill, Bluesman 03:26, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

OK. Didn't see a "Ignore warnings" button, but I'll look carefully next time. Anyway, the result of your changes is that we have the old image back. The file I uploaded seems to have been replaced by the old image. This happened before you did anything. I assume this was because I hit the wrong button when it warned me that a file of that name already existed. When I edited the record, and went to retrieve the full file I could see that my file had been replaced. So I uploaded the file a second time, this time changing the name so that it would upload correctly, and I used the "x" file to update the record.
If you can retrieve my file with the "x" in it, and rename it properly, and replace the old image with it, that would fix the record. If not, I can rescan it again (I already tossed my scan), and upload it again. I realize they images look very much alike, but my image was 3-- x 600 and the old image is 3-- by 500, and my image has the Baen logo on it (which is what the original note mentioned) and the old one didn't.--Sjmathis 14:46, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Gone is gone. The [image] on the record is the one you uploaded, 300x600, with the Baen logo. --~ Bill, Bluesman 15:15, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
This happens to me (the old image still appears even after I replaced it) until I realized that the software sends you back to the original page without refreshing your cache. So what you see is the old image. Just refresh your cache (F5 on most browsers) and you'll see the image has been replaced by the new one. Mhhutchins 16:53, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
OF course! The old 'you have to hit refresh' trick. It looks fine. Thanks to all--Sjmathis 17:31, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Dating later printings

Sometimes at least a year can be determined for an undated printing by checking out the Publishers lists we have. For [this] Blish, publisher is Signet. Click on that in the record and you will get [this] page. I checked a few and for [1972] you can see that the number of your pub fits nicely into early 1972, month is probably April, but that's pushing it. The best part is that all the other publications we have records for from 1972 are Verified. If none of them were I'd be more hesitant, though at that point I would check out a few and see if the dates used were accurate [lots of times there are records created from printing histories on later printings' copyright pages]. Just an additional tool to use/check. If you do use such pages for a date, be sure and cite the source! FYI! Cheers! --~ Bill, Bluesman 23:00, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


I've noticed on a few submissions that you're adding the LCCN (should be only 2 "c"s since the Library of Congress "card catalog number" became the "control number") like in this record. In case you're interested, you can link this number to the record on file with the Library of Congress using the method described here. So LCCN: 93-22096 can be entered as LCCN: <a HREF="">93-22096</a> and this is what it links to. Pretty neat, huh? Of course, none of this is mandatory. Mhhutchins 20:32, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Very interesting.--Sjmathis 20:37, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The Dark Frontier

I accepted the submission adding a new publication to this title but made a few changes to conform to ISFDB standards. The synopsis was removed from the pub record to the title record (the proper place for information that concerns the title, not just this one pub). I've place the # sign before the catalog number (this ISFDB standard is used to indicate a catalog number that is not an ISBN). One question: what is the currency? If this was published in Britain before decimalization (1971), the price should be entered in shillings and pennies. For example, "3/6" was a common price for paperbacks in 1967 England, meaning 3 shillings and 6 pennies. If it's a US price (60 cents), it should be entered as "$0.60". Because the book was printed in Great Britain (as your note states), it was probably intended for the Canadian market, so the price should be entered as "C$0.60". Thanks. Mhhutchins 15:45, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Aha! I see you uploaded an image, and the 60¢ is visible. I'd bet this was meant for Canada. Is there anything stated in the book that might indicate that? Mhhutchins 15:46, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Ambler is a secondary interest of mine. I have most of his older publications, and I was surprised to see his name listed on the front page of the ISFDB today and learn that one of his books was considered a Spec Fiction book. Anyway, I loaded what I could, creating a new pub, since the Fontana edition wasn't in the database. The synopsis was present in the pub that I used to make the clone, so I left it in there, as I didn't know how to get it into the title record. Thanks for the info regarding the ISBN and catalog numbers, I'll keep an eye out for that in the future.
The price is as shown on the cover, which I just uploaded. Didn't occur to me that it might be intended for Canada, and I wasn't sure about when they went to decimal currency. There is no price on the spine (nor much else except for "Fontana" and the catalog number). The note about printing in Great Britain appears on the copyright page, with very little else. Another possibility is that it's a later printing, post 1971, as what I took for a date actually says "First printed by Fontana in 1967". In that case, we should drop the printing date and include a note about it being a later printing. Also, I guess it could have been intended for sale in the US or Canada. I don't know enough about Fontana's business practices to even hazard a guess. If you want to change it, it's fine with me.--Sjmathis 16:17, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
The Catalogue number is the right sort of range for 1967, so I think the date is good. I can't tell if it's for the USA or Canada, but in my experience British books were rarely priced for the USA - indeed, they often state "For Copyright reasons, this edition is not for sale in the USA". (Canada has been decimal since the 19th century so that's no clue.) BLongley 16:48, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps they simply reprinted it after 1971 without changing the catalog number? Did they do that? Possibly this is not going to be clear until someone comes up with another publication that has some more data. --Sjmathis 17:01, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
By then Fontana books had ISBNs rather than Catalogue numbers. BLongley 18:21, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

ISBNs and Catalog Numbers

If a book has both ISBN and catalog numbers (as in this recently updated record), you should record the ISBN in the ISBN/Catalog # field, and the catalog number in the note field. Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:42, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

OK, Will do. I thought I had seen a couple that were like that, but perhaps not. If I do see others like that, I'll correct them if I'm working on the book.--Sjmathis 19:53, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
There probably are records in the db that include both. If you see any, please update them to the current standard. Thanks. Mhhutchins 21:34, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

"C. W. Cody"

The signature you see is that of Ken W. Kelly. The ¢ [can't make a different symbol, but you know what I mean] is a stylized 'K'. FYI! --~ Bill, Bluesman 18:00, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks! I'll fix the record, if you didn't.--Sjmathis 18:04, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Citing sources

Since you didn't verify [this], I assume you got the artist from another source. It is important to cite that source in the notes. Helps any future editor/verifier that may edit the publication record, especially if that information is not actually in/on the book. Thanks! --~ Bill, Bluesman 22:58, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

The publication you referenced isn't one of mine. Either you are referencing the wrong pub, or the wrong user. Since I'm not aware of many other sources, I usually don't try to insert anything that isn't actually in or on the book in front of me. I've been going through my books, looking for items that haven't been verified and verifying them. When I find errors, I try and correct them. When I find things that are out in left field, I clone the pub and let you folks decide what to do with it. When I clone a pub, I normally come back and verify it after the moderator accepts it, generally entering a cover and notes as appropriate. When I put in an artist that isn't identified, it's because of a signature on the cover, and I usually try to leave a note to that effect. If I missed one, I apologize. Thanks for all your help. --Sjmathis 02:11, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
I definitely put in the wrong link, and now can't remember which record I was referencing.... Apologies. --~ Bill, Bluesman 19:49, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
It may have been one of the things I cloned. I don't know how to put in a cover for a cloned pub, until after the pub is accepted, so I normally go back and put in the cover once the clone is accepted. Sorry if I missed one - doing too many things at once, I guess.--Sjmathis 13:55, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
That's the best way to add an image to a pub record. There's a way to add it without there being a pub record in the database, but it's very complicated. Using the "Upload cover scan" function from the pub record does a lot of behind the scenes work: adding the license tags, creating a unique file name, linking the image's wiki page to the pub record, and more. Continue uploading from the pub record. It saves you a lot of work. Mhhutchins 18:42, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
Apologies if my colleague and namesake erred. We Mods aren't perfect - just generally trusted to be "significantly above average" in accuracy. I've got my eye on you as someone that will make the grade sooner rather than later. BLongley 03:14, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Ring of Fear [ACE]

There were two images on AbeBooks, both with $1.95. Added that to the record. --~ Bill, Bluesman 19:47, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I checked the ABE images, and they match my cover. Should I upload a 'damaged' cover?--Sjmathis 19:58, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
Nicer to have one that matches the data, but if your image is better than either on AbeBooks [the one wasn't bad] go for it and just note the source of the price. Sooner or later someone else will come along with a complete cover. I've even seen editors request the scan be replaced in the notes if someone has a better one! Your option. --~ Bill, Bluesman 20:16, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

A Canticle for Leibowitz

Hi. I made some minor tweaks to your A Canticle for Leibowitz submission: I added "#" on the front of the catalogue number (non-ISBNs should have that "#" added to the front), and I changed "$.95" to "$0.95" to explicitly include the zero dollars; the help doesn't explicitly say to include the zero, but its only example does that, and you should include the zero. :-) I didn't change any of the data you provided, just those two formatting things. Thanks. --MartyD 10:45, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Knew about the "#", but just forgot. Didn't know about the leading zero, but will try and remember. :) --Sjmathis 13:47, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Trey of Swords

Shouldn't the notes of [this] say "Fifth Printing/June 1983"? to match the date? And did the fifth printing have the same ISBN as the sixth [the one you cloned]? Lastly, the OCLC # in the notes is for the sixth printing and should be deleted. --~ Bill, Bluesman 17:07, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Yes and Yes. I fixed the Note to say June. The ISBN is the same so that is OK. I dropped the OCLC from the Notes. I assumed there is a way to look up things in the OCLC, but I don't know how to do that, another thing I need to learn :) --Sjmathis 19:45, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Creating content records

The submission updating this record was accepted and I noticed that you added a note that the book contains maps by John M. Ford. Although not mandatory, it's nice to create records for certain contents in order for the author/artist to be credited on their own summary page. In this case, you could add a content record titled "Songsmith (maps)" with the INTERIORART entry type, and John M. Ford as Author1. Thanks. Mhhutchins 20:18, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

OK. Done. I left out page numbers, since the two maps are on the three (un-numbered) pages before the first page. --Sjmathis 02:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
That's fine. There is a way to add page numbers for substantial content that you wish to include in the record that appears on unnumbered pages. Count the number of pages before the pagination begins (if there are unnumbered pages that precede page 1). Then add these pages in brackets to the record header's page count field, e.g. [12]+274. Then determine the page number of the map (or introduction, acknowledgments, etc) by counting forward from the first page (don't count the cover of paperbacks or the endpapers of hardcovers). Enter that number in brackets in the content record's page field, e.g. [7]. This is not mandatory, but it does help place the contents in relation with the first page of the work. An exception: if the novel starts on page 9 (for example), which is the first numbered page, you can count back to get the page number of the content you're adding to the record. Still record this number in brackets in the page number field. Hope this helps. Mhhutchins 03:02, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Looking up names

You said in a moderator note "I don't know exactly how to search the data base for artists named Kelly". Easy as pie. On every page of the database there is a search box in the upper left corner of the page. Enter what you're looking for into the box, choose which field to search using the drop-down menu, and click "Go". In this case there are so many people named Kelly and the search only returns the first 100. So you have to do an Advance Search. Click on that link (below the search box), and go down to the ISFDB Author Search Form (second section). Enter "kelly" in the first box with the drop-down menu as "Canonical Name". This will return all persons in the database (authors, editors, artists) that contain "kelly" in their name. You'll have to go forward one page to find all those who have "s" first names. I looked and not one of them are artists, so that didn't help much. At least in the future, you'll be able to search if something like this comes up again. Thanks. Mhhutchins 02:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks, that's almost exactly what I did, and I came up empty also. I was hoping there was a clever way to restrict the search to 'artists', as opposed to 'authors', but I guess that's not as easy. Glad to hear I was at least on the right track. --Sjmathis 03:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Separating "artists" is something I've wanted to do for a long time - but I've held off until we sort out "translators" and "editors" too. BLongley 18:02, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
You can also try searching by title. In Advanced Search, use the top section. Make Term 1 be Author and enter the name there. Between it and Term 2, make sure "AND" is selected. Make Term 2 be Title Type and enter COVERART there. Between it and Term 3, select "OR". Make Term 3 be Title Type as well and enter INTERIORART there. I.e., "Kelly + Author" AND "COVERART + Title Type" OR "INTERIORART + Title Type". This translates to Find titles whose author name contains Kelly and whose title type is either COVERART or INTERIORART. Kelly still doesn't work out so well here due to Mr. Freas. You can use a wildcard ("C*Kelly" or "C%Kelly", for example) -- you can do that in the author search as well. --MartyD 11:48, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
Excellent! Thanks very much. --Sjmathis 14:00, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Note to the moderator in a pub update that doesn't update the pub.

In a submission to update this pub, you placed this note in the "Note to Moderator" field:

I don't think these volumes (4,5, 6, 7, & 8) were ever printed. There were plans to print them, as evidenced by the statements at the end of volume 3, but I don't think they ever made it into print, so perhaps they should be deleted.

This is not the best place to present your concerns about this pub. It would have been better to leave a message on the Moderator Noticeboard, where any moderator or editor would have been able to respond. A submission to update the pub record should do just that: update the pub record. The "Note to Moderator" field is used to give additional information about the submission, not the publication. This submission made no changes in the pub record, so I had to reject it.

Now to your concerns: After a little research, I agree with you and believe the later books in this series were never published. If cases where a book was announced, especially if assigned an ISBN, it's better not to delete the record, but to change the dates to 8888-00-00, which the system will display as "unpublished". Keeping the record in the db as unpublished, helps insure that no later editor, seeing the listing in Amazon, will add a new record stating the book was actually published when we know it never appeared. I'll correct the later records in the series. Mhhutchins 22:15, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks. I'll remember your suggestion regarding contacting the moderators. Keeping a record that indicates that they are unpublished sounds like an excellent solution. I can recall waiting months in an attempt to get copies of the volumes, and finally throwing in the towel and checking them out of the library.

Pan Sagittarius

Please recheck the ISBN stated in this pub. It came up as an invalid number. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:41, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

To be exact, the copyright page states: "SBN 425-02659-7". I assumed that was an ISBN, but perhaps it means something else, or perhaps Berkley wasn't very good at calculating check sums in those days. The spine has "425-02659-095" on it, so I assume the number itself is OK. According to my Excel check sum calculator, the check digit should actually be "0". Seems to me I saw something that suggested that there was a way to look up an ISBN and see if the book matches the number, but I don't know how to do that. --Sjmathis 19:23, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
Some publishers, especially Berkley, was quite late in the transition from SBN to ISBN (most had converted by the early 70s). Berkley continued to give the SBN in their books, and 99% of the time the ISBN can be derived by just adding a leading "0" to the number. I would suggest giving "0-425-02659-0" in the ISBN field (because it links with outside databases) and then record in the note field that the number is derived from the stated SBN: "425-02659-7". Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:59, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
OK. Done. Thanks for the info. --Sjmathis 20:12, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Adding content to a pub

It's always better to import the contents into a record if another record exists that has the same contents. In the case of this pub, you could have imported the contents from this record. This avoids having to merge the new content title records with existing ones. Do you know how to merge title records? If not, I can step you through the process. Thanks. Mhhutchins 20:05, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks for the offer of assistance - Seems I need a lot of it. However, I won't trouble you right now. If I run across another situation like that I'll send a plea for help. :) --Sjmathis 20:16, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
I'll go ahead then and merge the title records for you. When you get a chance, look over this page on how to merge titles and this one on how to import contents. Thanks. Mhhutchins 20:28, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry - I didn't understand that there was something else that still needed doing. I thought you were offering to show me how to avoid re-typing all the contents of the pub. Since I had already typed it, I thought we were done, and this was for the next time I needed to do this. Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by "merging the title records". I'll look at the help files. Thanks. --Sjmathis 20:37, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
No, I'm sorry. I should have been more clear. Whenever you add new content records, there's a very likely chance that there are already records in the database for those titles, especially in a reprint collection like the Weber collection. These new records should always be merged with the existing ones so that all of the appearances of the story will appear on one title record's summary page. Otherwise they would be spread around the database and be hard to search for. Some editors mistakenly believe this is an automatic process, because moderators tend to follow up new editors by merging their records for them. Unfortunately, it's all manual. Fortunately, in some cases, you can avoid having to merge records if either of these cases exist: 1) you can clone an existing pub record that already has the contents or 2) you can import the contents from an existing pub record, if the pub record you're updating doesn't already have contents (as in the case of the Weber collection.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 20:55, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
OK, I've now looked at the help files, and I see that I could have saved both of us a lot of work by simply copying the contents of the hardcover version. I now realize that I need to examine the other printings of a publication that I'm editing more carefully. Thanks again. --Sjmathis 21:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
I've tried it on this pub. I realized as I got down to the bottom of the editing screen that the Maps and excerpts were missing. Rather that re-type them, I finished the edit, then went back and imported the content from this one. Now my only thought is whether the second edit will wipe out the work done by the first - we'll see. --Sjmathis 21:28, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Naming records for maps

Maps are a specialized form of interiorart, so we use the same standards for naming them as we do for other interiorart records: give the name of the book, but then add "map" at the end in parentheses. So the record in this pub should be "In Enemy Hands (map)". Its type should also be changed from SHORTFICTION to INTERIORART. Thanks. Mhhutchins 22:00, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

This one will have to also be corrected. Mhhutchins 22:05, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I knew about the (Map) convention but mixed it up, and also forgot to fix the type. I'll have to go back and see where I started mixing up the (Map) thing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sjmathis (talkcontribs) .
One other thing, we don't capitalize "map". No big problem. Thanks. Mhhutchins 23:47, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

War of Honor

The page number for the excerpt (945) is greater than the number in the page count field (939) in this pub record. When importing records you have the option of retaining the page numbering from the original record. Sometimes when a book is reprinted the pagination changes, especially from hardcover to paperback reprints. Thanks. Mhhutchins 22:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

OK, Done. Forgot to check the page count.--Sjmathis 22:47, 15 November 2011 (UTC)


Your updated image for [this] is of the wrong book. Sure it's just a copy/paste error. Since you added notes I accepted the submission to keep them, but the image needs replacing. Cheers! --~ Bill, Bluesman 03:49, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Never mind, just checked the Upload Log and the image was there so corrected the record. --~ Bill, Bluesman 04:15, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Dan Dos or dos Santos

In your submission to update this record, you changed the cover artist credit from "Dan Dos Santos" to "Dan dos Santos". The ISFDB software was designed to ignore case in person's names, and makes all names conform to the one already in the database. So you could have entered "dan dos santos" and the system would still match it with the ISFDB author data for "Dan Dos Santos". (You could even enter it as "DAN DOS SANTOS" and it would not have made a difference.) There is a way to change all of the records currently in the db to "Dan dos Santos". Doing a little research, I find that form of his name is his preference. And I learned that he is more often credited as Daniel Dos Santos. I'll try to determine which name should be made into a variant. He uses "Dan dos Santos" on his website. Mhhutchins 18:43, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I was just matching what it says on the copyright page - it gives it as "dos". --Sjmathis 18:44, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
According to this note, it's displayed both ways in the hardcover edition of the same title. Mhhutchins 19:49, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
Isn't "dos Santos" the last name? BLongley 19:29, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
That's my impression. --Sjmathis 19:32, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
We're not that good at recording official "author" names - or indeed, distinguishing "authors" from "artists". As we get more editors whose native Language isn't some English variant, we keep finding problems. Dirk has been doing a lot of Author edits to work around our software limitations, but we really should sort out the problems rather than work around them. We don't seem to have language experts with development or testing skills though, so language support is rather behind. :-( BLongley 01:52, 17 November 2011 (UTC)


We try to use the standard capitalization rules when it comes to titles...regardless of whether a word is capitalized in the actual publication or not. As you point out, many times all words in a title are caps so we can't determine how the author intended it actually to be displayed. Because of this we've chose to capitalize the initial letter in all words of a title except for "and", "the", "a", "an", "for", "of", "in", "on", "by", "at", "from", "with", and "to" (Unless those are the first word of the title.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:45, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Same mistake as I made in my early days - I couldn't understand why "Is" is preferable to "is". (After all, "I" is better than "i" as a word, isn't it?) We have changed a little in the last few years - "with" wasn't on the list when I started. Not a major issue, foreign alphabets are going to be far more complicated as they won't search right. BLongley 02:00, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

The Weapon

Go ahead and upload your image to the pub record. It's possible that the one there is for the hardcover edition. Mhhutchins 20:21, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

OK. Done. It replaced the file that was there before, and it took me a while before I remembered to hit the refresh button so I could see the change. The previous image was exactly like the image used for the HC version, but it had been scanned and uploaded to the PB version, according to the file name. Anyway, it looks good now. Hopefully I haven't screwed up the HC version. --Sjmathis 20:46, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
Looks like you uploaded two different versions of the cover. The current one is here. And one uploaded a few minutes before is archived here. Which one is the actual book cover? Mhhutchins 21:16, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
Sorry. I did the same thing as you. Forgot to reload the page to clear the cache. They're now identical. Nevermind. Mhhutchins 21:18, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

After Worlds Collide

I replaced the link for the cover image of this record. The one on the Trash Collector website was considerably smaller. Thanks. Mhhutchins

Airmont Science Fiction series

I am organizing the Airmont Science Fiction series, and have added your verified pub The Tower of Zanid to this series.

Center of Gravity (Star Carrier #2) - cover image and notes

I replaced the Amazon cover image with a scanned image, and added notes to your verified Center of Gravity. AndonSage 06:01, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Agent of Change

I added the LCCN to the notes of Agent of Change. Bob 21:26, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Carpe Diem

I added artist crediting to the notes on Carpe Dium, which you verified. Bob 21:55, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

White Moon, Red Dragon David Wingrove 1997

Uploded new cover image and added cover artist for this pub BarDenis 20:44, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

The Forge cover image and artist

Could you please verify the cover artist for your verified The Forge by S.M. Stirling & David Drake, and match it to the cover image? I have the third edition (Nov 1998) of The Forge, and the cover on my book is the same as shown for your book. However, the copyright page in the third edition says "Cover art by David Mattingly" and you have Paul Alexander listed as the cover artist. Thanks! AndonSage 07:52, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

My copy has "Cover art by Paul Alexander" on the copyright page. I don't see a signature on the cover. My copies of the rest of the series are second printings, but they also list Alexander as the artist. Perhaps the third edition is a correction, or perhaps it's simply an error. I've seen examples of artwork for both artists, but not enough to distinguish their work. Sjmathis 13:59, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Well if the cover on your first edition and the cover on my third edition are the same, then one of the books has a misprint. Since Paul Alexander is listed as doing the covers for the other books in the series, I'm gonna figure the third edition is the incorrect one. However, to try to verify this, I'm going to post the question on the Baen's Bar forum, and see if anyone can answer there. David Drake is active on Baen's Bar, so I'm hopeful of getting an answer. Thanks for checking your book :) AndonSage 14:43, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
I just wanted to give an update to this issue. The only response I received on the Baen's Bar forum was to e-mail, which I did a couple days ago. I'm still waiting for a response. AndonSage 16:14, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
I finally received a response, and they confirmed David Mattingly is a misprint. I'll go ahead and edit the record and add notes. AndonSage 23:55, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

The Hammer - notes and content

I added notes and content (maps) to your verified The Hammer by S.M. Stirling & David Drake. AndonSage 09:32, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

The Anvil - cover image, notes and content

I uploaded a scanned cover image, plus added notes and content (maps & excerpt) to your verified The Anvil by S.M. Stirling & David Drake. AndonSage 08:50, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

The Steel - cover image, notes and content

I uploaded a scanned cover image, plus added notes and content (maps) to your verified The Steel by S.M. Stirling & David Drake. AndonSage 09:20, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

The Steel - cover image, notes and content

I uploaded a scanned cover image, plus added notes and content (maps) to your verified The Sword by S.M. Stirling & David Drake. AndonSage 09:56, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Jupiter note

I have added a note to your verified pub of Ben Bova's Jupiter stating a discrepency in the page count. John L. -- Syzygy 03:14, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

W3: Women in Deep Time

I have added an OCLC catalog number to the note field of your verified pub of W3: Women in Deep Time. --John L.-- Syzygy 02:23, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Hegira - Tor Edition

I have added an OCLC cat# to the note field and added the map on page 6 as content to your verified pub of Hegira. --John L.-- Syzygy 18:16, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Oath of Swords

I changed the number of pages for Oath of Swords to match the page numbers in the pub. Bob 20:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Stainless Steel Visions

Expanded the notes a little for [this]. Cheers! --~ Bill, Bluesman 20:58, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Encounter With Tiber

I have added an OCLC cat# to the note field of your verified pub of Encounter With Tiber. --John L.-- Syzygy 02:37, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Atilla Hejja / Attila Hejja

Hi, there are as of this moment four occurences of cover art by Atilla Hejja in isfdb, and you are the only one who managed to verify one, this. Could you please check it and look whether the name is a typo for Attila Hejja?--Dirk P Broer 01:33, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but there is no credit for the cover artist, and no signature is visible. I added a note to that effect to the listing. I don't remember how long ago I verified the book, but I assume that the artist was listed before I did, and I didn't change it, since I didn't have any evidence that it was wrong. It could easily be a misprint. Sjmathis 18:10, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
I took a quick look at the other entries for Atilla Hejja, and the only other one I have is Brunner's "The Wrong End of Time", but mine is a third printing, the cover artist is credited to Rick Sternbach, and the cover is also signed by him. The fifth printing is credited to Atilla, but not verified, and there is no image in the record. Looks like I can't help very much. Sjmathis 18:19, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
But you did! I think you mean this cover, and the style is definitely Attila Hejja's.--Dirk P Broer 23:41, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Right. I didn't think of "Goodreads", and I didn't realize that they had a lot of artwork. Although they don't list the artist, it certainly looks like the Brunner entry is spelled wrong, which would imply that the other entries are probably typos also.Sjmathis 13:02, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Rocannon's World

Identified the artist for [this] printing. There is a signature on the animal's left wing [right side of cover]. --~ Bill, Bluesman 22:06, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Paying the Piper

I entered the hc version of Paying the Piper by David Drake. This novel is composed of three linked novellas, the first of which was actually published before the novel (Choosing Sides appeared in "The Warmaster", published in May 2002). You may want to include those novellas in the contents of the pub you verified. Bob 21:09, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

OK. I did that with some misgivings, since the copyright date is also 2002, and I don't know how to tell which came first. There's nothing in the book to indicate that they were published earlier. I read the book back in 2007 and I don't remember details. Were you going to add them to the hardcover version also? Sjmathis 13:41, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
I saw this message after posting the one below. You both will have to figure out whether this is a fix-up novel or a collection. Pub records under the title must be the same type. And novel records that are fix-ups don't have the constituent parts as content. Look at this pub record and this title record to see how fix-ups are entered. Mhhutchins 13:57, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
Since there isn't any indication that the other stories were published independently, I would be inclined to leave it a NOVEL, with the note in the title record (I fixed a typo) to the effect that "Choosing Sides" was also published elsewhere (should it have a reference?). Thanks.Sjmathis 14:14, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
No, you don't have to link it to the other title record. Do you agree that the record should remain typed as a NOVEL, Bob? Mhhutchins 15:38, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Drake's Paying the Piper

Is this a novel or a collection of related stories? We can't add shortfiction records to a NOVEL-type record, but we can change the type to COLLECTION and add the shortfiction records as contents. Mhhutchins 13:54, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

We have another submission adding similar content to this edition. His notes describe it as three continuous novellas. (In fact, see the entry immediately above). I took a look at the ebook, and the three do read as related but separate. It seems we should accept both submissions, change the main title and the pubs to COLLECTION, and import the novellas into the Hammer's Slammers omnibuses (omnibi?). --MartyD 10:20, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
The other editor disagrees (see the above topic). She believes it should remain a novel. The two will have to come to a decision. In the meantime, I'm stepping away and removing my hold on the submission. Mhhutchins 15:07, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

"The Charmed Sphere", by Catherine Asaro

I've raised a discussion about books published by "Luna", suggesting we change this to "Luna / Harlequin". This includes your verified Charmed Sphere. If you can, please visit this discussion. Chavey 15:24, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Saint Antony's Fire

Go ahead and change the image for this. The one there was purloined from Amazon, definitely disposable if not correct. As for the tag, I don't know what will happen if you change it. The image is tied to it, but I don't think anything else is. Another method to do both would be to create a new record with the correct information, which will generate a 'correct' tag, add the proper image to that record and then delete this one. --~ Bill, Bluesman 01:16, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I went ahead and uploaded the correct image. It replaced the old image, and didn't affect the images that were associated with the other two editions. Hence all is well, despite the tag being off by a year, which I don't think will hurt anything. Sjmathis 12:42, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Chung Kuo

I've just added cover art credit on The Middle Kingdom , The Broken Wheel , The White Mountain and Beneath the Tree of Heaven (US) , which you verified. Ofearna 05:16, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Do you mean the statement below the cover: "Cover art supplied by Amazon"? I thought you meant the "Cover artist", which I wasn't able to identify, and I don't see in the record?
The artist (Jim Burns) is now visible on the pubs. --Willem H. 18:50, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

The Early Asimov: Book One

I updated your verified pub The Early Asimov: Book One with some new notes and to match my copy in hand. If any of these changes does not match your copy, please let me know and we can roll them back, log the discrepancies and document a new printing.

I changed the title from The Early Asimov Book One (without colon) to The Early Asimov: Book One to indicate the subtitle (The colon isn't present in the printed book but it's definitely intended based on the typography).

I changed "Printed in the USA June 1974" to "Printed in the United States of America [over] June 1974" since the double quotes implies that these exact words appear in the printed book.

I changed "From the Copyright page, "This book comprises the first half of THE EARLY ASIMOV; and is reprinted by arrangement with Doubleday and Company, Inc."" and swapped the semi-colon after ASIMOV to a comma, which is what is in my book.

I lastly added two notes describing the tie in text between stories and between the two volumes.

Again if any of the above doesn't match your copy in hand please let me know. Thanks! - Kevin 03:38, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Looks fine. I verified that book early on, when I wasn't paying very close attention to details. Thanks for making the updates. Your changes match my book exactly. One minor quibble, should we perhaps use a comma instead of a colon in the title? It appears that way on the back cover and the copyright page, whereas the colon never appears. Sjmathis 20:41, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
If it had a comma on the title page I would go with that, but since there is nothing, the colon is preferred indication of a subtitle. - Thanks Kevin 20:57, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

"The Healer's War", by Elizabeth Ann Scarborough

I added a note about the listed prices outside the US to your verified copy of this book. Chavey 04:13, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

March or Die

March or Die by Andrew & William Keith -- the cover art, which you noted is not credited in the book itself, *is* credited in the Richard Hescox artbook The Deceiving Eye, so I added credit and notes.Ofearna 20:45, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Stephen Hickman

On the cover of [this] publication, bottom right, is what looks like an "S" or lightning bolt followed by two dashes, one long/one short [might be a period in there too]. This is Hickman's 'signature'. It's been verified a number of times, appearing on covers actually credited to him. FYI Cheers! --~ Bill, Bluesman 23:11, 17 June 2012 (UTC)


I took the suggestion made in your note to moderator and made this "unpublished". (You can do this yourself - change pub and title dates to "8888-00-00", the special code for such.) Do you know what book 5 was going to be called? We could record the fact that that was written but unpublished as well. BLongley 12:33, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

The Web site that describes Norwood's papers lists the fourth book as "Twister", and indicates that an outline of a fifth book exists, without naming it. I sent the person maintaining the papers an e-mail asking for clarification, but as yet have received no response. So from this limited information I'd conclude that the fourth book could be called "Twister" or "Refugee", or perhaps one of these is the fifth book. Mel Odom might be willing to shed some light on this. I found his e-mail address on his web page: [] if you would like to contact him directly. Sjmathis 13:41, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Dragon Harper

I have your submission to update this record. One concern: we ordinarily do not create individual records for parts of a novel (chapters, parts, "books", or the prologue or epilogue). Is there any reason why you feel there should be an exception made in this case? Also, I see you tried to reverse the order in which the co-authors' credits are displayed. Unfortunately, the software isn't designed to give preference to one author over another, and I don't believe there is currently a way to change the order once the record is in the database. Mhhutchins 18:48, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

I added the prologue as a separate writing because it was in an unnumbered section of the book, so it looked 'separate' to me. Usually, prologues or epilogues are within the page numbered part of a book. However, I don't think this is a compelling reason, and you're welcome to remove it as a separate record.
I'll delete it from the record. Mhhutchins 14:04, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
You're right about the author reversal. I think I remember trying that on another book and not seeing any change. In this book, Anne is listed first on the cover, on the title page, and on the odd page headings. Can you delete the record and put it in again with the authors reversed, without doing a lot of typing, or will the authors end up in a random order anyway? Perhaps the creators of the software felt that the order of authors wasn't important, but I would respectfully disagree. I feel that most authors would be concerned about where their name appears in a list of authors. Sjmathis 13:21, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
I don't think the designers intentionally felt credit order didn't matter. That's just the way it fell into place. I believe they just didn't want to create a double-headed author, so that credits for a single work would appear on both authors' pages without having to create two different database records. I've seen databases that create these "double-headed" authors and they're a mess. You can bring this up on one of the community discussion pages. In fact, it may already be a feature request, just waiting to be written, tested, and implemented. Mhhutchins 14:04, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
This goes back way before Al let us loose on editing, so I think it was in the original design. It may even be a feature request still (I've seen it asked for a few times) but if so I think it's probably well down the list of priorities. We're pretty poor at prioritisation of FRs though - everything seems to be "priority 5". BLongley 15:11, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Lost on Venus

I think the cover artist of your copy of Burroughs' Lost on Venus is Frank Frazetta. If you look at the earlier Ace printings e.g. this, you'll see that it is the same cover. You will probably want to change the name you have listed especially since it is misspelled. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 12:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Fixed it. Thanks very much.Sjmathis 12:55, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Hugo Winners Vol 3 Book 2

Added the cover artist [there IS a signature - right side halfway up on edge of planet] to [this]. Also corrected one content from"Eurema's Dream" to "Eurema's Dam". --~ Bill, Bluesman 04:02, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

The Weapon Makers

In entering a new record for the Canadian edition of [this] I found Podwil's signature on the cover [just right and below the left hand of the dancer]. Very hard to pick up as it's just a different shade of red [lighter on the dark 'step] but definitely Podwil's scrawl. Amended the record. --~ Bill, Bluesman 23:41, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Wow! You have good eyes. I can't make it out on the uploaded covers, but I agree it's barely visible on the original when you get it in the light and hold it in the right position (and know where to look). Thanks! Sjmathis 11:50, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
I use a magnifier [hand-held] on every cover of every book I touch that doesn't have an artist credited [and on most that do!]. Practice, practice, practice = eye strain, eye strain ... but it's fun when you find one no-one else has!! It's the little things! ;-)) --~ Bill, Bluesman 05:08, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Do Unto Others . . .

I was updating my verification on my hardcover copy of Do Unto Others . . . and noticed that I had verified it without including the ellipsis " . . ." at the end of the title. You might want to check your paperback copy to see if it also has the " . . .". Just FYI. - Kevin 22:43, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

You're right. I missed that when I verified it and uploaded the cover. It's fixed now. Thanks. Sjmathis 16:17, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Do Unto Others

I accepted the submission to add an ellipsis to the title of this record, but changed it to the ISFDB standard by adding spaces between the dots. I also want to verify that the ellipsis appears on the book's title page, and not just the front cover. The standard is to use the title given on the title page. Thanks. Mhhutchins 23:29, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't notice the spaces. Thanks for the fix. Yes, the title page also has the ellipsis. They also appear on the cover, the spine, and even the odd page headings. Interestingly enough, The previous book in the series, this, also has them on the cover, the spine, and the title page, but not on the page headings.Sjmathis 13:16, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Five Fates

I've added Lorraine Fox as cover artist to this record. Image is shown in Infinite Worlds by Vincent Di Fate.--Teddybear 17:57, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

The Martian Way

I noticed that your verified printing of The Martian Way[1] you have the catalog number of #P2554 instead of #T1606 which would fit the the $0.75 price and the image. The #P2554 is for a printing with a price of $1.25. I will added the P2554 printing as a new publication & add the cover scan.Don Erikson 05:54, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

My apologies for the confusion, but I looked again at the book that I have, and it has a catalog number of #T1606. I must have missed it when I verified the book. I changed the catalog number of the book that I had verified, and now everything in that book seems to be OK. This may leave something else that needs to done to straighten things out, but I'm not exactly sure what it is. Jack Sjmathis 13:07, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price

I added the Canadian price to your verified [2].Don Erikson 18:05, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Seems like nearly all books published after some date have Canadian prices which are usually different than US prices. Some times verifiers enter them, sometimes they don't. Is there an accepted rule as to when it's appropriate?

I added the Canadian price

I added the Canadian price on your verified [3].Don Erikson 18:30, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Robinson's "Forward" or "Foreword"

Can you confirm the spelling of the foreword in this collection? Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:57, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

It's spelled "Foreward". I fixed it. Is that a Canadian spelling?Sjmathis 13:13, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
I don't think so, because I've never seen it spelled that way, which seems to be a combination of two words. Are you certain it's not "Foreword" instead of "Foreward"? Mhhutchins 14:29, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
You're right, I'm sorry, I was just looking at the extra "e" in it. The actual spelling in the book is "Foreword". I fixed my error (again).Sjmathis 03:24, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

John Varley's "Air Raid"

When you get a chance, please read the message posted here. Thanks. Mhhutchins 06:05, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

You're right. There is no indication of the story being written by "Herb Boehm", who I see is a psuedonym for John Varley. If I understand the message correctly, you're saying that it was credited to Boehm in the magazine where the story was originally published, but not where it was subsequently reprinted. I read the help file that discusses what you have to do to change a title that is in a greyed out 'container', and I think I followed the instructions correctly, anyway, it's out there for moderator approval. I'm not clear on what has to be done to do the 'merge' operation that's discussed, so we'll cross that bridge in the next steps. I also took the opportunity to upload a new cover that's a little better than the one linked to by Amazon.Sjmathis 13:50, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Your submissions were proper and approved. I've taken the additional step to merge the new title record that you added to the pub record with the one that was already in the database. Now your printing shows up under the John Varley-credited printings. Thanks. 17:30, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price & ISBN to your verified [4].Don Erikson 17:43, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

"Passage", by Lois McMaster Bujold

I corrected the publisher of your verified publication from "Eos" to "Eos / HarperCollins", since the copyright page specifies that Eos is an imprint of HarperCollins. Chavey 21:41, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

"The White Mountain" by David Wingrove

I see that you verified The White Mountain; could you please check if there is an introduction and an Author's note in the pub, as in the Italian version of the book I have just added with data from an external source ? Thanks --Pips55 21:26, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

There is something like an introduction, which is positioned before the copyright page. It describes what has taken place in the previous two books in the series. There is also an Author's note following the main text, and other sections, which I attempted to enter into the publication record, but was unable to complete, for reasons described in the comments below. I just don't fully understand all the rules that have to be followed to accomplish such a task, and I'm not very interested in learning them. I have the book on my shelf, and I'll be happy to answer any questions about it that anyone cares to ask.Sjmathis 04:30, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
There are no documented rules about the extent to which a verifier who wants to can add details about a publication. I personally choose to use the "Note" field to add data that doesn't fit into the other fields, and this seems to be the majority opinion. Now when it comes to adding content records, here is documentation to help in the decision about what to add. These are general guidelines, and some choices are subjective. Although it's not explicitly stated, the one question everyone should ask themselves: "Is the content record that I'm adding to this publication record of substantial importance that it adds value to the record?" And the answer for one editor may not be the same as it would be for another. Yes, you should add real introductions, but the way you describe the "untitled introduction" in this novel, it appears to be a synopsis of what came before, which makes it part of the novel. As such, a separate content record shouldn't be created. I personally would just record this in the note field, because I see no value in crowding the author's summary page with a lot of records which in the end don't amount to much. Another editor may think differently, and if it comes to the point where two editors disagree over the same record and cannot arrive at a mutual agreement, then it may require a rules discussion. The same thing goes with appendices to a novel which I firmly believe are part of the novel and should not be entered as separate content records. It would be similar in my opinion to creating a separate content record for prologues, chapters, "books" or "parts" within a novel, and epilogues. This is explicitly prohibited under the current rules, but there has never been a discussion that I'm aware of about the inclusion of appendices, glossaries, etc. Again, you may find another moderator who would have approved your submission without question. (Except as I did, they would have questioned why they were entered as shortfiction and not disambiguated.) If you have any questions concerning what to include in a publication record, don't hesitate to ask on the Moderator's Noticeboard. Thanks. Mhhutchins 05:29, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks very much for the explanations and the reference to the Help page. I know I must have read all that some time ago, but it's too much to remember. I had forgotten that all those records end up on the summary page, and I agree that there isn't much point in pulling all that stuff out as though they were separate publications. In this case the 'introduction' is pretty clearly part of the novel, except that it's untitled and appears before the title and copyright page, and is probably interesting only to someone who hasn't read the previous books in the series.Sjmathis 14:26, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your time. --Pips55 21:05, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

The White Mountain

I'm holding your submission to update this record. A couple of problems: all of the newly-added contents are given as shortfiction, which I assume is incorrect. Also, they haven't been disambiguated (generic titles should have the title of the work parenthetically added). A more important question: Are you certain these contents are substantial enough to warrant individual content records? Your note in the "Note to Moderator" field leads me to think you're not comfortable with adding these contents. If you have any questions about what to add to a record, it's better to ask on the Moderator's Noticeboard before making the submission. Your statement that if it's not appropriate to "please delete it" isn't as simple as it sounds. If I accept the submission these six new records will be in the database, each of which will have to be updated because of the two problems I point out above. Or if I accept the submission, and you decide the six records aren't necessary, then you'd have to remove the records from the pub (one submission) and then delete the title records (six submissions). If I reject the submission, you'll have to make a new one to add the link to the uploaded cover image and add the upgraded notes. Any concerns should be addressed before making the submission. Giving them in the "Note to Moderator" field of the submission isn't the best approach. Of course, you always have the option to cancel a submission that's not been moderated. Thanks. Mhhutchins 03:01, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for creating a can of worms. I'll cancel the submission.Sjmathis 04:18, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Cover art credit for Very Hard Choices

Can you confirm the spelling of the cover artist's first name in this record? Thanks for looking. Mhhutchins 03:09, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Same question for Overthrowing Heaven. Mhhutchins 03:10, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Both were incorrect, and I have fixed them. Thanks for spotting them. Sjmathis 14:37, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

The Hobbit, or There and Back Again

Can you confirm the catalog ID# of this verified pub? I just verified the 10th printing, that still has #U7039 (like the first 5 pre-revision Ballantine printings. I think the number from the Amazon scan was copied to all revised printings. Thanks for checking, --Willem H. 16:07, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

When I verified the book, I didn't know where the "Catalog number" came from, so I left it alone. The number is not in the book anywhere. The number "U7039", which I guess is Ballantine's number, appears on the cover and on the top of the spine. There is nothing on the copyright page, except the copyright information, and the printing dates of the first five editions, and the dates of the two revised editions. Please delete or change the number if it doesn't belong there.Sjmathis 20:38, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
Will do. Thanks! --Willem H. 21:07, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

The Listeners

Re: The Listeners
Updating publisher as found on title page. Adding LCCN to notes.--Astromath 14:36, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Sjmathis 15:01, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Doctor to the Stars

Re: Doctor to the Stars
You have verified this pub. In the notes it says that the artist credit is unknown. I have found the artist's initials in the lower right corner of the image, above the "R" in LEINSTER. I have traced those initials to this pub. That pub has the proper credits for this artist since the initials on that cover image (below the word THEODORE) are identical to Doctor to the Stars cover image. This is one of those times I did not feel comfortable changing the notes. I'll let you do it since you are the one that verified it.--Astromath 19:28, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks very much. I had looked for any signature, but didn't see the initials. Sjmathis 19:49, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Fuzzy Papers

I've added cover art credit and some notes justify-ing that credit to Fuzzy Papers Ofearna 18:25, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks very much.Sjmathis 14:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Menace from Earth

Dated [this] printing from the ads in the back [year only]. --~ Bill, Bluesman 21:11, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Very interesting approach. Of course it gives you a definite limit for the earliest date the the book could have been printed (assuming the publisher isn't advertising books that they haven't printed yet), but it leaves open the possibility that it was printed sometime later. Perhaps you could find an upper bound on the date by looking at verified copies of the publisher's catalog numbers? This would, of course, assume that the publisher has kept their catalog numbers in some sort of sequential order that is related to publication date, which gets into things that I know nothing about. Anyway, I'm impressed by the idea, and I'm considering going back over my collection of books and perhaps entering the ones that I skipped because I couldn't identify the publication date and were already well represented by many other printings. Most of my books are reading copies, since I'm essentially a reader and a collector only because I have the shelf space and it's the easiest way to keep track of what I've read already, hence they tend to be later printings and dog eared copies that I find in used bookstores. Sjmathis 15:58, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Left Hand of Darkness

Scanned in a new image for [this]. My copy is cropped differently than yours and the signature is visible just under Damon Knight [show on the scan]. Adjusted the notes. --~ Bill, Bluesman 06:09, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Interesting. My copy appears to have a little more of the image at the top, and a little less at the bottom - just enough to do away with the artist's signature. Perhaps Ace was putting out more than one 'printing' with the same information on the copyright page. Does yours have a "Kent" cigarette ad between pages 160 and 161? Sjmathis 14:20, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes, it does but cropping and printing don't go hand in hand. Paperbacks were/are mass-produced and individual copies from the same print run can be wildly different in how they were cropped, as much as 1/2 inch, and seldom square! UK pbs are much more consistent than US ones. --~ Bill, Bluesman 18:07, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

The Wanderer

What is the source for the artist credit in [this] record? My copy has no credit or visible signature. Thanks! --~ Bill, Bluesman 20:47, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

It says "Cover art by Jacques Wyrs" on the copyright page. I updated the notes. Sjmathis 14:55, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! --~ Bill, Bluesman 20:54, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Leroni of Darkover

I'm going to add some note details to Leroni Of Darkover. O'Fearna 20:47, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I usually update the artist and so forth, but it looks like I forgot to do it this time. Sjmathis 14:43, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

1635: The Tangled Web

I accepted the submission updating this record, but you'll have to correct the author credit to the excerpt. (By adding "ed." to the end of Flint's name you created a new author.) I saw your question in the Note to Moderator field, but that's not the place to ask for help. (That is explained on the main help page.) The Moderator can not answer inquiries once the submission is in the queue. We can only do three things: accept, reject, or hold the submission. I didn't want to reject the submission because of the effort you put into updating the record. I also can not make any changes in a submission so it would have useless for me to place it on hold. So I accepted it. In the future post any inquiries on the Help Desk page.

Before I can answer your question, I have to ask one: who is credited as the author of the excerpt? If no one is credited, enter "uncredited". If only Flint is credited as the editor, enter his name as given in the publication. Thanks. 00:41, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

I took another stab at it. Thanks for your patience. Sorry about creating another author who doesn't exist. Will he disappear now that I've deleted his name, or do I have to do something else? Sjmathis 03:43, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Authors only exist as long as title records exist. Once the title record has been deleted or the author field of the record has been altered, the previous ISFDB author summary page disappears automatically. If you click on the author link I gave above you'll find that it now points to a non-existing summary page. Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:43, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Mitch Faust vs Mitch Foust

Hi, you've verified Turn the Other Chick, giving Mitch Faust as cover artist. Could you please check whether that was a typo by either you or the publisher for Mitch Foust? The same illustration can be found on his website (Mitch Foust's).--Dirk P Broer 09:29, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

It's spelled with an "a" in the book. I'll correct it with the above information in the notes.Sjmathis 13:45, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

The City of Gold and Lead cover artist identified

The cover art of this paperback edition is identical to the cover art used for the Macmillan hc edition where the artist is credited as "Roger Hane" (his signature is partially visible on the hc scan.) Mhhutchins 23:02, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [5].Don Erikson 21:52, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price and ISBN to your verified [6].Don Erikson 20:19, 19 March 2013 (UTC)


Hello, I've replaced the amazon scan and added notes to your verified here. Hauck 10:17, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I usually do that for books I verify, but I guess I missed that one. Sjmathis 11:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Dark Universe

After this pointer I've changed the cover credit for my edition of Dark Universe to Mitchell Hooks. The same illustration is on your verified edition. Can you look at the signature again? Thanks, --Willem H. 18:47, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. Mine is a second printing with only a portion of the original cover, so the signature doesn't appear on it. I believe I cloned the first printing to make my entry, and probably uploaded the cover of my issue, and hence the artist credit was copied from your copy's entry. I've updated my entry to match yours. Sjmathis 13:30, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Heinlein's 6 X H

Can you confirm that the ISBN given in this record is stated in the book, or derived from the catalog number? It seems that it was several years later that Pyramid started using ISBNs. Thanks for checking. Mhhutchins 19:36, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't know when Pyramid started using ISBNs but this copy has it in two places, on the copyright page and on the spine. Note that it is a seventh printing, as stated on the copyright page, and the date is also stated on the copyright page: "Seventh printing, October 1972". Should I add something to the notes? Sjmathis 12:45, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
No, it's fine. I just needed some confirmation about the ISBN being present. After more research and a few more inquiries, I've learned that Pyramid started using ISBNs sooner than would have been indicated by our records. Many records had catalog numbers in the ISBN field, even when the ISBN was present in the publication. Thanks for checking. Mhhutchins 15:23, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

The War of the Worlds

Hello, the cover artist for this publication is Jack Faragasso, see Could you make the update? Horzel 11:05, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I added the reference. Sjmathis 15:44, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

"Tall" mass-market paperback

If a softcover book is taller than 7 inches, it is entered as "tp". You can use the Note field to explain any oddities about its dimensions. I've changed this record back to "tp". Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:12, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

OK, understood. Amazon describes it as 7.5 x 4.2 x 1 inches, hence it meets your criterion. I was trying to make it the same as the previous book in the series, which was listed as a "pb", despite it being the same size. I changed it to a "tp" also and added a note. Personally, since my shelves are designed for mass-market sized books, and the 'tall' books barely fit, I'd call them "pb" books, a Trade sized book is one that typically doesn't fit on my shelf. Thanks. Sjmathis 12:59, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
We had to make a cut-off somewhere, and 7 inches seemed to be a good one. I think the industry calls them "premium" paperbacks, so we may need to come up with a new designation for this format. When they first came out, maybe 4 or 5 years ago, I assumed it was a fad, but they seem to have caught on. This may be a good time to revisit the issue. Feel free to begin a discussion on one of the community pages. Mhhutchins 19:41, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [7].Don Erikson 20:25, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [8].Don Erikson 20:01, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [9].Don Erikson 20:17, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [10] &[11].Don Erikson 18:45, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Stardust date

Hi. The date comes from Locus, which explicitly states fourth printing. I will add a note and a Locus verification. --MartyD 01:11, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. I thought perhaps it was a fourth printing of the "fourth printing", but I guess that unless someone comes up with a copy with an intact number line, that isn't the case. 12:50, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
I suppose it could be a fourth printing overall, first printing by this publisher. I don't think they normally record it that way, though. Perhaps someone will find another printing with a clearer past-printings record in it. --MartyD 00:35, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Better cover scan

Added a clearer cover scan to The Stars at War.SFJuggler 20:24, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Misaligned ISBN

Can you check to see if the ISBN-13 is given in this book? Mhhutchins 07:32, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes. The 13 digit ISBN is shown on the copyright page and on the back cover. It agrees with what is shown in parens in the record. Sjmathis 11:41, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
If you look at the record again, you'll see that it gives the ISBN-10 as the stated ISBN, and the ISBN-13 is derived. If the ISBN-13 is stated in the publication, please update the record and change the ISBN field. That way the record will display the ISBN-13 as the stated ISBN and the ISBN-10 as the derived one. Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:41, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
OK. I did so. Sorry, but I didn't understand the question, as I didn't know that the Parens indicated a derived number. I'll keep an eye on that in the future. Sjmathis 14:32, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [12].Don Erikson 19:21, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Moon Flights

I put your submission to update [this] record on hold, for a couple of reasons. Contents: much easier to just import the contents from the hardcover edition and then add the one extra story. Otherwise there would now be fifteen duplicate records requiring merging! Second: amazon NEVER supersedes what's in the book. A.Com is the absolute worst bibliographic source on the planet, bar none. If you want to put in the notes that amazon has a different date, no problem but the date in the field HAS to be what's in the book. --~ Bill, Bluesman 04:05, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

OK. Except I have no idea how to import the contents from the hardcover edition. If I'd even known that was possible, it would have saved me a lot of typing, and referring back to the hardcover edition to try to make things match, which I was doing to avoid creating duplicate records, as I thought it wouldn't duplicate if they matched.
I don't know where the source of the publication date came from as I don't know how to tell who put it in there or when they did it. I simply mentioned the fact that I noticed that Amazon had the August date, which agreed with what was already there. I wasn't using Amazon as a source of information, and I didn't want to change the date if the date in the book was wrong, and whoever put it in the original submission knew something that I didn't know. Perhaps the book was originally printed in August of 2008, and I have a later printing, which was then copyrighted in 2009? Maybe I should have cloned the entry and changed the date, and left the original entry alone?
At this point I'm not clear on what you want me to do, or how to do it. I'm discouraged that I seem to be causing more problems than I'm helping. Sorry. Jack Sjmathis 04:29, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
OK. I cancelled the submission, and re-edited it to enter the information from the copyright page, which was accepted. Then I figured out how to import stuff and gave that a try. It seemed to work, but there was no place to leave a message for the moderator? Why not? I added the story that my book had which wasn't in the other two editions. Should I have imported it also? I got the impression from the import form that you could import a single story, but I haven't tried that yet. Thanks, and I hope this is more helpful. Sjmathis 14:56, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
I haven't tried the Import for a single story either! It's a relatively new feature. I did check and the one story added did create a duplicate record and I've merged that. I'm discouraged that I seem to be causing more problems than I'm helping. Don't be discouraged. There hasn't been an editor [or Moderator] that didn't make mistakes while learning the ways of the database! And the thing keeps moving/changing. I guarantee there are features here I don't even know about, and more than a few I haven't had occasion to try. If you're not sure of a How/Why/What just ask. That's what the Help Desk is for. As for why there was no place on the Import page for a Note to Moderator, I can't answer that. Such notes are in themselves a relatively new addition, and one I thought was appended to every edit 'process'. That's a question perhaps for the Community Portal page, or directly on Ahasuerus' Talk page? Keep at it, it does get easier! --~ Bill, Bluesman 15:27, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Finding pubs with missing covers

Just an FYI that, as per a Community Portal discussion, I have added a new User Preference, "Display cover scan indicators on Title pages". If you turn it on, you should be able to see the word "Cover" next to the pubs that have cover scans associated with them. Hopefully it will make working on your cover scan project a little easier! :) Ahasuerus 02:52, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

That's great! Many thanks. Jack Sjmathis 14:13, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [13].Don Erikson 19:47, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Fine. No need to notify me about Canadian prices. I would add them routinely, but 1) I usually forget, & 2)I'm not sure what benefit there is in doing so, unless it's really unusual. Seems to me that 99.9% of paperback priced at $7.99 cost C$9.99. Are you just filling in older books with different prices? Jack. Sjmathis 20:43, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Cosmic Encounter

Hi, would you agree that Cosmic Encounter forms part of the Masters of Science Fiction series?--Dirk P Broer 18:57, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, That's what it says on the cover. The cover design certainly looks like it belongs in that series. I have two other books published by Carroll & Graf, both with similar cover designs, one The Great Explosion has been included in the series, and the other one The Forever Machine is not? I'm not sure how to get them into a series, so if you do, please proceed. JackSjmathis 13:22, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
There's a field in every publication record entry form labeled "Pub. Series" (below the "Image URL" field). There's also a field for the "Pub. Series #" but only use that to add a number when present on the publication (most aren't numbered.) Thanks. Mhhutchins 16:05, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I went ahead and entered it. Sjmathis 20:42, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Secondary Data Sources

I approved your edits to The Tears of the Sun and Alien Diplomacy. However, the notes for both of these still state data is from secondary sources (Locus, Amazon, & WorldCat in these two instances). Since you primary verified these, the data should be from the actual book. When that's not the case, then the secondary sourcing should specify the exact data (like you did with the cover artist credit on The Tears of the Sun). These two secondary source notes should be edited to specify what information was included that's not in the pub or deleted if they aren't applicable anymore. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 23:47, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

OK. I usually take out everything that is there, but for some reason I left some information in there this time, since I wasn't confident that it was not needed. I can't always tell where the information comes from, or how to access it. I assume that the reference to Amazon is just for the fact that a book is being published, and that they have it for sale, so I took that out. I don't know how to access the reference to Locus, so I don't know what that tells you, but I didn't see anything that isn't in the book, so I took that out. I see references to OCLC, but I don't know what that is, or what it tells you either, but those references seem to be in many other books, so I left that in there. If you want me to strike that out, let me know. JackSjmathis 03:16, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Locus is a magazine dedicated to speculative fiction. They publish information on forthcoming books as well as an index of past books. Both Amazon and Locus are used to seed information on books that haven't been verified yet. OCLC is an identifier used by WorldCat (a large on-line library catalog). Some users like to link to the WorldCat listing; hence the OCLC links. Sometimes, before a book is verified, the WorldCat listing will be used to expand the information in the database as well. The OCLC links should be left if present. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 00:22, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation. I assume I don't have access to Locus, since I'm not a subscriber. So if you have a copy of a book, the general rule is to keep the OCLC reference, and eliminate the Locus and Amazon references. I think the two books you mentioned above are OK now. Jack Sjmathis 12:00, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
When we refer to "Locus1" as the source we mean The Locus Index to Science Fiction which is accessible to all. If the data comes from a specific print issue, we indicate that in the Note field. Otherwise it means the online database. Thanks. Mhhutchins 16:46, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Found it. Many thanks. Jack. Sjmathis 18:42, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Verification question for Foster's Icerigger

I was comparing my copy of Icerigger to the one you verified in 2011 (""). Everything matched until I noticed that you quoted the "11th printing, May 1986" but dated the pub as "1987-06-00". My copy says "Eleventh Printing: May 1987". Can you check your copy and let me know what the copyright page says and what the pub date should be? Thanks, --PortForlorn 01:21, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that. Your copy is the same as mine, and I updated the publication record. Jack Sjmathis 11:54, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

The Hero Curse

Added proper cover scan to replace the Amazon-supplied one and added some notes to The Hero Curse.SFJuggler 06:10, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing that. I usually scan covers if I see that the one in the database is from Amazon, since the ones from Amazon sometimes go away, but I must have missed that one. I didn't know that there were two versions of the books, and I see that I have the "thick" version.Sjmathis 12:56, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
I only found there were two versions when a batch of them showed up at an overstock store in Portland (OR). They were blowing out a small selection of the titles at 4/$1.00.SFJuggler 02:26, 26 June 2014 (UTC)


Can you take a look at your copy of Hellstar? There's a signature in the lower left-hand corner under the ship. It says "© Ron" [over] M"<indecipherable> [over] 1984. I've scanned at several resolutions up to 2400 DPI and still can't figure out who it is. Maybe it will click with you. If not, maybe you could update the notes and someone else will know.SFJuggler 02:31, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

I can see most of what you mention above, but the cover is creased right at that spot, and I can't make out what the letters are after the "M". It might end with an "R". I'll update the notes and mention it to Don Erikson. Perhaps his copy is in better shape than mine. Jack Sjmathis 12:44, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
I'm uploading a new cover scan (wraparound) and an enlargement of the signature. Maybe someone will recognize it.SFJuggler 18:48, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
The illustration is by Ron Miller, Proof is on his website. We do have the verification request page for these questions. --Willem H. 20:04, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for mentioning that, I didn't know about it. I've updated the Notes to reflect the new information. Sjmathis 13:02, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Touch the Stars: Emergence

Added better cover scan to Touch the Stars: Emergence.SFJuggler 20:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Sun's End

Added a better cover scan to Sun's End.SFJuggler 03:45, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Extremis cover artist

Since there's no source for the Miller vs. Seeley claim, if you book says "Cover art by Dave Seeley" on Extremis' copyright page, the way the e-book version in the Amazon Look Inside does, I think you should change the credit to Dave Seeley and change the publication notes to say something like "2014-07-13: This record previously had an un-sourced claim that the Dave Seeley credit is erroneous and that Kurt Miller is the artist." But before doing that, you should ask the two verifiers of the hardcover (both of whom are active) about the source of the Miller credit on their verified copies; the artwork is the same. That might shed some light on the situation. --MartyD 17:43, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Will do. Thanks. Jack Sjmathis 17:51, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Doomsday Wing

Hi, the cover art for this is a detail of the cover art of The Earth Tripper (Fawcett Crest 1973). So the cover artist is Larry Kresek. Could you perform the update? Thanks. Horzel 21:53, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the info. Jack Sjmathis 13:17, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Expanded Universe

I made some changes to this pub that you verified. You may want to review those changes:

  • Pub notes extended
  • Changed 5 content items so that they appear with the title from the title page instead of from the table of contents. For instance, "How to Be a Survivor: The Art of Staying Alive in the Atomic Age" instead of only "How to Be a Survivor"

Cheers, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 10:31, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Looks good. Thanks. Jack Sjmathis 13:20, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

The Centrifugal Rickshaw Dancer

Hello, I've added some notes to your verified pub. Hauck 09:38, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

New image for Anne McCaffrey's Dragonsinger

Replaced the Amazon image of Anne McCaffrey's Dragonsinger with one I scanned. You are listed as Primary reference. Doug 16:23, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to the verified

I added the Canadian price to the verified [14].Don Erikson 22:14, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Alan or Allan Pollack

Can you confirm that "Allan" is credited for the cover art in [ this publication? (Most credits in the ISFDB are for "Alan".) Thanks for checking. Mhhutchins 18:02, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

It is "Allan". It's spelled that way on the back cover. I added a note about the credit to the record. I don't see any signature on the cover. Perhaps it's a typo, or perhaps there are two of them.Sjmathis 14:28, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Gust Front

Hi. I'd like to suggest additions/changes to your verified pub.
1. Add "Author's Afterword (Gust Front)" on p.711.
2. Credit John Ringo with doing the maps from the info in the hardbacks. I can't imagine the maps not being the same. Also note that in the notes.
3. Change Pages to 721+[5], with the maps starting on page [723].
Let me know what you think about these. I could enter them if you want, unless you'd rather do them, if you agree with them. Thanks, Doug / Vornoff 05:56, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

That's fine. Steam ahead and enter them. Thanks for the help. Jack Sjmathis 13:38, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Changes submitted. Also updated cover for The Great Explosion. Thanks, Doug / Vornoff 21:41, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks very much. My cover to that one is not in very good shape. Jack Sjmathis 13:28, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

"Leroni of Darkover", by Marion Zimmer Bradley

I made some minor corrections to your verified publication. The stories by Janet Rhodes, Patricia Cirone, Margaret Carter, and Diann Partridge were all credited as if they had been listed with their middle initials, but none of them had those middle initials listed either in the ToC nor on the story title pages, so I corrected those attributions. Chavey 22:13, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks.Sjmathis 13:24, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [15].Don Erikson 19:02, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Sjmathis 15:24, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [16].Don Erikson 20:27, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Sjmathis 13:02, 18 June 2015 (UTC)


The cover art for Mute is by Luis Royo... I've read the book and the art itself appears in the non-fiction works of the artist. Susan O'Fearna 08:03, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Sjmathis 12:45, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [17].Don Erikson 20:55, 2 November 2015 (UTC)


Cover Artist found

Hello, the cover artist for your verified pub was found. Hauck 14:19, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks very much! Sjmathis 12:28, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Days of the Comet

I expanded the notes for In the Days of the Comet. There were no changes to the metadata nor image. --Marc Kupper|talk 21:00, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Excellent - thanks. Sjmathis 12:58, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


Added an entry for the map for Passages.--Auric 13:42, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Sjmathis 12:57, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

The Forge

Added the map to [18].--Auric 11:52, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Sjmathis 12:39, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Garbage World

"Garbage World" Catalog# of the publisher indicates to be edited in 1977. --Zapp 13:25, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing that. I re-worded your note slightly to explain the implication. Sjmathis 12:59, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Traitor to the Living - Tor edition

I added some notes for this book ([[19]]), about the publication date. Zlan52 21:48, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Sjmathis 12:21, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Cover artist for Extremis by Steve White and Charles E. Gannon

Please see the discussion here. The artist is Dave Seeley, and I've submitted corrections for the cover title and notes on the the entries. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:01, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

OK - Thanks. Sjmathis 12:05, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Queen of Wands

I have just modified the hardcover version of Queen of Wands to show the three short novels that make up the publication. You may wish to do the same for the version you have verified. Up to you. Bob 20:40, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

I think I'll leave it as is. There's no Table of Contents indicating that they are separate stories. Each right hand page has "Queen of Wands" on the top. It's been a while since I read it, but I don't recall thinking that they were separate stories. Perhaps we can get a vote from another reader. 13:06, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
Sorry to intrude, but I've reverted the modifications done by Bob who added three "short novels" (a bit short IMHO to be NOVELs, more of novella length) to an existing NOVEL without changing its type to OMNIBUS (it appeared on our cleanup reports). Either the book is an OMNIBUS made of already published NOVELS (which doesn't seem to be the case on both counts) or a COLLECTION (with novellas), not an hybrid of the two. I've transferred the data at title level in the notes here. Hauck 13:49, 6 September 2016 (UTC)


Hi, I've imported content for your verified copy of Foundation.--Dirk P Broer 01:14, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I think I verified it back when I had no idea how to do that. I dragged out the book to look at it, and noticed that the cover was missing in the ISFDB record, and the notes were skimpy, so I added some other stuff to the record. Jack. 12:47, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

The Blal

Hi, I've imported content for your verified copy of The Blal.--Dirk P Broer 20:46, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. There is no contents page, so I hadn't thought to add the stories. I checked the page numbers, and they are correct. I also added a few notes. Jack. Sjmathis 12:53, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

The Year of The Lucy

I was able to decipher the signature on my copy of The Year of The Lucy. I also added the LCCN.--Auric 19:47, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't see it. I assume it's Joe DeVito, but I'm not familiar with his work, so I'm reluctant to add it to the database. Perhaps someone with additional information can do so. Jack Sjmathis 14:08, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Ride the Star Winds

Hi, In our data base we have two verified records for Ride the Star Winds: one which credits the cover art to Stephen Hickman -who also did three earlier issues in the Baen Omnibusses- and one that credits the cover art to Alan Pollack, who also did the last two of those Omnibusses. Judges by the cover art of these six titles I am inclined to think that it should be Alan Pollack in both cases of Ride the Star Winds, but could you please check?--Dirk P Broer 13:14, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

My copy does say Alan Pollack on the copyright page. Also, it does appear to be a first printing. It says it is a first printing of the mass market edition, as of June 2013, and it has a full number line. Jack Sjmathis 13:19, 6 October 2016 (UTC)


Added to the note section of this book. MLB 04:04, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

And for For Those Who Fell. MLB 05:22, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
Usually I do that after verifying a book, but I must have missed those. Thanks. Jack Sjmathis 13:00, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Added series to Monster Hunter Legion (excerpt)

Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:22, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't realize it was part of a series. Sjmathis


When uploading cover images, please use the 'Upload new cover scan' link on the publication page. This will ensure the image is tagged with the correct fair use templates as well as named consistently. I 'moved' your Image:Heretic.jpg to Image:THHRTCTHGN2014.jpg by downloading the scan and reloading it using the publication link. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 14:07, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Sorry! I think that happened because I wasn't logged in when I tried to up load the image. After I logged in, the system asked to "return to the upload page" (or something like that), and I did (or I thought I did), and proceeded from there. Usually when that happens (not logged in message), I log in and back out to the "edit this book" link and start over, but this time I didn't. I didn't notice that it missed the tags. I must be getting old. Thanks for the help. Jack

The Door Into Summer

Not a change to your verified pub per se, but I've been going through many pubs of The Door Into Summer and capitalising the "into" to "Into". Thanks. PeteYoung 02:41, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Nice catch! It's a capital on my copy. Jack Sjmathis

Claws that Catch

I've added the Canadian price to Claws that Catch. --AndyjMo 16:09, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Jack Sjmathis 19:22, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Princess of Wands

My copy of Princess of Wands has a front cover nearly the same as the one shown (woman in street clothes), except that it has additional text below the author's name (quote from a review by The Midwest Book Review). If yours doesn't have the additional text then I'll add a link in the Notes. If it does have the text then I'll change it for my version. --AndyjMo 18:06, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Interesting. Usually, when I am the primary verifier of a book, and the cover image is not a ISFDB image, I scan the cover, upload it, and substitute my cover for the Amazon cover (or whatever was there). I assume I didn't do this, since the scan is by Marc Kupper, and I don't think he would have substituted a scan without telling me. So the scan must have been there before I verified the book. My copy does have the additional text that you mentioned, and I think we should change the currently shown cover to match the actual book. Normally, I'd volunteer to do that, but my copy is a little beat up, so if you have a better one, please feel free to insert a new scan. If you want me to do it, please reply here. Also, the note that says "Cover is shown by ISFDB image - woman in street clothes.", was added by someone else after I verified the book. I guess we should also ask Marc where he got the cover from, since the notes in the listings of all copies, discuss the existence of three versions of artwork, while only two books are listed. Jack Sjmathis 19:21, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
I've replaced the image with a scan of my copy. I'll ask Marc Kupper about the 3 different versions. --AndyjMo 19:32, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
Many thanks! Jack Sjmathis 19:36, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Virtual Vandals

Added the LCCN and the ISBN to Virtual Vandals. MLB 07:40, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for missing the ISBN, it's on the book, and I should have noticed it. I've never understood how to find and enter the LCCN or the OCLC stuff, and you're welcome to add it to any of the books that I've verified. Jack Sjmathis 14:29, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
Added the LCCN and the OCLC to The Deadliest Game. There isn't always a LCCN for every book. I just try to find them if they are there. It took me a while to learn how to use the link system here too. MLB 07:11, 7 February 2017 (UTC)


Added a new cover image and some notes to your verified Teklab. MLB 07:27, 12 February 2017 (UTC)


I added the LCCN to Sundowner. MLB 02:25, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Changes to John G. Hemry/Jack Campbell pubs

I am changing John G. Hemry's canonical name to Jack Campbell; this is affecting some of your verified publications. --Vasha 17:49, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Either way works for me. I have both of them in my personal database, with a link between them. Seems easier that way, as so much of Hemry's later output was written as Jack Campbell. My "wanted" lists all use Campbell, since I already have all of Hemry's earlier works.Sjmathis 11:56, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

The Lion Returns

Added some notes to your verification of The Lion Returns. MLB 00:26, 4 April 2017 (UTC)


Hi, I've uploaded content for your verified copy of City.--Dirk P Broer 12:05, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Eventually I'll learn how to do that. Sjmathis 13:25, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

The Stars at War

I would like to change the title of your verified pub to exactly what it says on the title page, Imperial Stars: Vol. I: The Stars at War. Admittedly the vol. I is not in the title on the copyright page, but I believe the principle is that the title page takes precedence over everything. Vasha 04:43, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

OK with me. Steam ahead. 13:03, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Torch of Freedom

I've replaced the Amazon cover of Torch of Freedom with a scan of my copy, also updated the Notes (Copyright statement and Canadian Price). Can you check the title of the extract. I believe it should be In Fire Forged not In Fire Forced. --AndyjMo 21:15, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

You're right. Probably my typo. Usually I scan the cover of a book that I verify, but I must have missed that one. Jack Sjmathis 12:40, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [20].Don Erikson 20:32, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

And [21].Don Erikson 20:40, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
I've started doing that, but I don't always remember. Jack Sjmathis 13:13, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Ben Bova's The Hittite

Would you be in a position to clarify whether Ben Bova's The Hittite contains any speculative elements? There is a "historical fantasy" tag associated with it, but reviews make it look like a historical novel with some deviations from Homer. TIA! Ahasuerus 11:38, 21 September 2017 (EDT)

Hard to say. I read it three years ago. My 'comments' in my database say: "A Hittite gets involved in the Trojan War and meets Helen. Sort of Alternate History". Perhaps it depends on whether or not you consider the Iliad, real history or pure fiction, or maybe somewhere in between. Bova has written a lot of things that people have trouble calling SF, but I like his hard SF very much, so I buy whatever he writes. I gave it a three on a scale of one to five. Historical Fantasy is probably a pretty good description. Jack 05:16, 22 September 2017 (EDT)
Thanks! I have expanded the Note field to explain the nature of the speculative element and left the "non-genre" flag on. Ahasuerus 13:15, 22 September 2017 (EDT)

Alexander Outland: Space Pirate author credit

Hi. I accepted your updates to Alexander Outland: Space Pirate. To answer your question about the author credit: How the book should be credited depends on what you see on the title page (not the cover or spine). See the "Pseudonyms" bullet of Help:Screen:NewPub#Author.28s.29. Any discrepancy between the title page credit and cover/spine credit should be documented in the notes. When a credit is "A writing as B", we would use "B" as the credit (which would make G. J. Koch correct for this). On the title page, you might find only "G. J. Koch", in which case the credit and notes are already the way they should be. But if the title page credit is "Gini Koch", then you should change this to Gini Koch, still keeping the notes. In either case, you might want to add an explicit statement in the notes about how the title page credit reads. --MartyD 07:06, 30 September 2017 (EDT)

Thanks very much for the explanation. The title page contains "Gini Koch writing as G. J. Koch" - same as the spine and the front cover. I'll fix the notes. Jack Sjmathis 08:37, 30 September 2017 (EDT)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the number line and the Canadian price to your verified[22].Don Erikson 16:23, 11 October 2017 (EDT)

Another one that I forgot to add notes to. Thanks. JackSjmathis 12:21, 13 October 2017 (EDT)

Sunset of the Gods

I added a cover scan, notes and the map to the contents of Sunset of the Gods, a pub you verified. Bob 16:57, 2 July 2018 (EDT)

Not sure what I did wrong, but I don't own the Trade version (tp) of this pub. I have the mass market paperback, which I verified. Somehow I managed to verify the trade version also, which I have now removed. Normally I scan covers for books that I buy new, or if the cover is in good shape for a used book, but sometimes I get busy and forget to scan them. Anyway, I think things are correct now, thanks for bringing it to my attention. Jack.

Primary Verified Pubs

When making changes that impact primary verified pubs, you should be notifying the active verifiers of your changes. While the "My Changed Primary Verifications" will show changes, it does not display the old and new values. Due to software limitations, only the new values are displayed. For major changes, it is advisable that verifier be notified of your proposed change via their wiki page as sometimes it turns out people actually have different editions. For other changes, you can describe the changes your are making (ex: "replace Amazon cover image; moving OCLC to external is", etc) in the moderator notes. The moderator notes are displayed in the "My Changed Primary Verifications" regardless if you are a moderator. I'm holding several of your edits where verifiers should be notified. You can either notify them via the wiki and I will approve or you can cancel these edits and re-do with descriptions in the moderator notes. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:46, 25 July 2018 (EDT)

Apologies. I'm not familiar with all of the rules that you use. Do you want me to explain every change in the moderator notes? I started out replacing old Amazon covers and got carried away, cleaning up short notes, and adding notes. I thought that many of the things I've done over the last week are books where I was the only primary verifier, but I wasn't paying attention. I see your point and will attempt to notify the other verifiers. I assume I don't need to notify myself. :-)
OK. Figured it out. Other primary verifiers have been notified. Hope I did it correctly.
Thank you. The edits have been approved. For the moderator notes on pubs with other active verifiers, you don't need explain everything in detail, but try thinking about what you would like to know if someone changed one of your verified pubs. And as for your question on my talk page, yes, you can just reply where the conversation started. Whoever posts a note should be using the watchlist functionality. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:31, 26 July 2018 (EDT)
Thanks for your help. I'm leaving town for a couple of weeks, and I'll resume updating my primary verifications when I return. I've seen many changes to my primary verifications, and so far they have all been improvements to my notes, or corrections to things I've missed. Some I have been made aware of by messages in my talk page, and others simply appear. I'm pretty sure that I've never felt like changing anything back, and I've always assumed that the folks here know a lot more about what they are doing than I do. Jack

Signing comments

Please make sure to sign your comments by adding ~~~~ (four tildes) to the end of your comment. It will then add your username and a timestamp to your comment, like this: ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:08, 27 June 2019 (EDT)

Right. I usually do that, but I seem to have forgotten to do so on the message that I left you. Apologies. Sjmathis 14:21, 28 June 2019 (EDT)
No problem. :) ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:30, 28 June 2019 (EDT)

A Research Guide to Science Fiction Studies: An Annotated Checklist of Primary and Secondary Sources for Fantasy and Science Fiction

This one needed some massaging (authors, date, page numbers, ISBN and ASIN) so I fixed it after approving. Thanks for adding it. Annie 13:30, 16 October 2019 (EDT)

Thanks very much. The ebook cover image (on Amazon ) shows the authors names. I think I understand why I couldn't find it, it hadn't been approved yet, so it wasn't in the database yet, right? Sjmathis 16:39, 16 October 2019 (EDT)
Yep - it was waiting for approval so the only place you could see it was in your Pending Edits. And yes - the image shows it now for both (and we did have the old version of the book so I even connected that). As a rule, if you find a book that needs fixed, first fix it, then wait for the update to be approved, then clone - much less cleanup at the end after that :) But either works. Annie 17:31, 16 October 2019 (EDT)

Ebooks and number of pages

Unless it is a natively paginated format (PDF for example), ebooks do not have their page numbers recorded in the Pages field per policy. Add the number to the notes but leave the field empty :) Help page on the topic and the relevant line: "For ebooks, do not enter in this field the number of pages. The estimated number given by the publisher or some sites may be specified in the "Notes" field." Approved your change here for the notes but removed the page numbers. Kindle and Nook books never have pages in the field. Thanks! Annie 23:06, 8 November 2019 (EST)

Thanks very much for the pointers. This was my first try at verifying an e-book, and I should have thought to look at the help files before I tried it. I could tell that it was a slippery concept, since I could see that changing the font size used to view the book changed the number of pages shown the footer field. However, when I set the option to have the book displayed as the "original published work", it ignored the font size setting, and used what the publisher seemed to think was the correct font, and font size, thereby fixing the number of pages. I'm not sure what it would have done if I had been viewing it on another device, so your point is well taken. Hoopla seems to get it wrong anyway, and perhaps that entry is not worth noting. I'll think about it as I read more of them. Jack Sjmathis 23:23, 8 November 2019 (EST)
Between page numbers and versioning, ebooks are challenging for bibliographies. :) I've had my kindle since 2011 and had been using Hoopla as well for the last few years now and then (my library uses them for some books and if they do not have a Kindle version, I need to default to it). What hoopla does (in my experience) is to show you the pages in the corresponding paper variant (this is what is "as published". Maybe some publishers send other data. In all cases, the concept of a page is a bit irrelevant - considering font changes and the missing blank pages and blank half pages and so on. For books that are e-books only, they are kinda... entertaining. The notes are always good. :).Annie 23:33, 8 November 2019 (EST)
Agreed. I was thinking about the problem of getting the stories in a collection in the order that they appear in the book. Usually that's accomplished by page numbering, but in an e-book, you can't do that, so the stories end up alphabetically, which is the "wrong" order as far as I am concerned. I started looking at Hoopla when my library starting using it. I've found only a handful of books there, I suppose because my library isn't that interested in SF. My wife is very happy with her Kindle, but until recently, I never paid much attention to e-books. I always felt like they were an annoying fad which would go away soon, but I changed my mind when I noticed some of the authors I follow were publishing things in e-book form only. Recently I had to make a modification to my personal database to include the 'type' of book, so I could accommodate e-books from authors I collect, in my never ending quest for 'completeness'. My library shelves are sized for mass-market paperbacks, so I have a long list of books that I'd like to own, but have appeared in Trade or HC only. I've decided that the e-book is my solution to publishers that publish an e-book, but not a MM version. Sjmathis 09:53, 9 November 2019 (EST)
You can order the contents of an ebook using the sorting option (detailed in this page). In the page number field, you can enter "|1", "|2", etc. so that it displays nothing (left side of pipe character), but sorts based on the number. The sorting format can also be used in physical publications when there are multiple items on the same page and you wish to show the actual order (in that case, put the page number of the left side, ex "40|1", "40|2"). -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:00, 9 November 2019 (EST)
Excellent! I can't fix the e-book I verified, since I've returned it to Hoopla, and they limit the number of books you can check out in a month. I'll fix it when I have a spare 'borrow' and it's getting close to the end of the month. Obviously I need to read more of the Help files. The length of them has always intimidated me. :-) Jack. Sjmathis 10:19, 9 November 2019 (EST)


I approved your submission for Counterattack with the bad checksum. That was not the ISBN presented by Amazon (via Look Inside); I corrected it. When you have a bad checksum, make the submission without the bad ISBN. Of course you should look closely at your source first. Bob 17:58, 11 November 2019 (EST)

I also approved the tp edition you submitted, and copied the cover image from the e-book submission. In the future, it is easier for the moderator if you wait until the first submission is approved, then make the second as a clone or another copy of the same pub. that way the two pubs don't have to be merged later. Bob 18:06, 11 November 2019 (EST)

Thanks!. Sorry about the ISBN checksum, I was using Amazon Look Inside, but I must have been looking at the wrong book. When I got the message that it was bad, I should have deleted it.
I did think about cloning the ebook after it's approval, but I thought I had all the data and could put it in at the same time. I didn't realize that you would have to "merge" it with the ebook, I thought that would happen automagically. I'll use the clone function next time. Jack Sjmathis 15:16, 12 November 2019 (EST)
If you type anything as opposed to cloning/importing, it will need a manual merge. That is valid for both book level titles (such as novels) but also for stories and essays (and merging those is annoying). Also - a small reminder - we are an international DB, these were added with prices without $ at the beginning (they popped up on a report last night). We always need the currency in the price field. And for e-books sourced from Amazon, we really want the ASIN as well, even if they have ISBNs. (I added that last night as well). :) Annie 15:43, 12 November 2019 (EST)
Will do. Thanks. Sjmathis 18:29, 12 November 2019 (EST)

Jani and the Great Pursuit

Are you sure that this is pb? Amazon reports 5.1 x 7.8 inches for this ISBN which is consistent with the UK B format (129 mm × 198 mm (5 1⁄8 in × 7 3⁄4 in).) - which does not fit the description of a pb (as per the help page For books as tall as 7.25" (19 cm) or as wide/deep as 4.5" (11.5 cm) use "tp") -- both dimensions are too big for a pb if this size is correct. Can you confirm the size of this book? Annie 21:25, 12 November 2019 (EST)

Or do we have Amazon shenanigans again? :)
PS: And having ASINs for modern printed books with ISBNs. If you look at the ASIN, it leads to one of those year 1654 records in Amazon that are usually amusing but usually just indicate non-existing and/or missfiled books. Annie 21:31, 12 November 2019 (EST)
I'm painfully aware of the difference between TP and PB, since my bookshelves are sized for mass-market paperbacks, and I often try to buy a MMPB, using ISBNs found in the ISFDB, and the online bookseller will ship me a TP sized book, sometimes with the correct ISBN, and sometimes with the wrong ISBN. Anyway, in this case, my Jani-2 is a PB sized book and I think Amazon's ISBN refers to the TP sized book. Amazon lists two versions of Jani-2 for sale, one is a "Paperback", with the dimensions shown as a Trade sized book, and an ISBN which matches my book. The second version is a "Mass Market Paperback", but the Product Details do not give the dimensions, and they do not state the ISBN, however they do show the ASIN as "B01B98W82Y", which is where I got the entry I put into the record when I was putting the correct cover into the record. I also note that Amazon shows both books when you enter the ASIN in the search field. Again, if you look at the first book, it shows the ISBN that is in my PB sized book, but no ASIN info, and the second book shows no ISBN, but does show the ASIN that I entered.
I've never seen a "1654 record", so I don't understand your comment, but I gather that you entered it into Amazon, and Amazon couldn't find anything?
I see "PeteYoung" verified the TP version of this pub. I wonder if the size is correct for that one? The price would make me think that it's also a MMPB, but printed in the UK? Baffling. Sjmathis 13:16, 15 November 2019 (EST)
pb it is then. I am just checking - if it is pb, it is pb. Amazon is often wrong, I am just making sure. Thanks for confirming! :) Although if it is the UK version, it should be in pounds? Solaris is giving me a headache :)
the UK small format (often priced at 7.99 pounds) is bigger than the definition of pb so it is added as tp here. So that's what Pete's book is most likely. Although Solaris do have real pbs there - albeit cheaper.
The 1654.. oops 1657 I mean. See the year: "Publisher: Solaris (February 23,2016) (1657)". :) Annie 13:49, 15 November 2019 (EST)
If the "UK small format" is bigger than a standard PB, I don't own any of them, since they wouldn't fit on my shelves. :-)
Yes, I see what you mean, but with the "2016" date right next to it, I wouldn't have called it a 'year'. I have no idea what Amazon meant by the number.
I guess Solaris prints in both the UK and the US? I know very little about Solaris. I didn't run across them until I started looking for Eric Brown's books, and I now have ten of their books, all PB, all priced in dollars, and all printed in the US. Perhaps their TP books are printed in the UK? I do have several of Brown's books printed by other publishers that are printed in the UK, priced in Pounds, and PB size.
Oh, it is an year. Common problem in their datasets. Amazon's data can be extremely interesting... :) Yeah, Solaris publishes books for the US market as well even though they are a UK company. And unlike some other companies, they do separate editions (or separate back covers and often formats) and not just one with double price. Kinda similar to the US/Canada separate editions of the olden times. Always fun to figure out from Amazon and secondary sources what you are looking at - so I tend to go ask when something does not line up. Or to figure out what you will get from a secondary bookcase which mixes the two ISBNs. I forgot about your shelves -- would have dismissed my own question if I had remembered. Or if I had looked at the page numbers of your and Pete's book before you responded - which is one of the better indicators for Solaris when correct. Anyway - thanks again for checking! :) Annie 22:57, 16 November 2019 (EST)
Happy to help. Finished reading the book last night, and discovered that it isn't the last one in the series, since it leaves the main situation unresolved. Hopefully Amazon will get the next one correct. :-) Jack Sjmathis 10:40, 17 November 2019 (EST)
Hopefully there is a next one. Way too many series never get finished for one reason or another. :) Annie 11:48, 17 November 2019 (EST)

Man-Kzin Wars XV

Per your question on your edit submission: If an anthology's editor is not credited, then the editor is entered as uncredited. If there is a secondary source that establishes the actual editor, it would be varianted to that author. In this case, there does not appear to be any credit information (the copyright statement would be insufficient as Niven owns the rights to the series; while it might imply more than that, it might also not). Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:31, 18 March 2020 (EDT)

Got it! Thanks very much. Sjmathis 11:37, 19 March 2020 (EDT)

Selected Stories

The Price field records list prices when we know then - not what an individual had paid for a book. Even though you are reading this for free (because you are paying for Prime), the book has a price and it is not $0.00. Add a note that it was a Free Prime book at a time if you want to but please do not delete valid data on the price of the book based on how much you can buy a book for :) Annie 16:14, 22 April 2020 (EDT)

Yes, of course. It was an entry error on my part. I had intended to change the price to the price for which Amazon lists it, and I started to do that by erasing the price. Then I got distracted by noticing that there were two e-books listed by Amazon, differing by their price and by their ISBN. The Kindle book did not have an ISBN inside it, so I couldn't tell which one I was looking at in my Kindle app. The e-book for sale by Amazon had a price that wasn't the same as either book listed by ISFDB, so now I was really confused. At that point, I had to leave my computer for a household chore, and by the time I got back I had forgotten what I was doing and I went ahead and submitted it, forgetting that I had erased the price. So, to recap, the ISFDB shows two e-books, with different ISBNs and different prices, $11.99 & $9.99. The current Amazon listing shows one e-book, no ISBN, priced at $8.99. The Amazon catalog IDs are the same, the publication dates are the same, same publisher, same covers, etc. My assumption is that Amazon has simply reduced the price, and I should either edit the price, with a note saying that Amazon has decreased the price? Or clone the pub with a new price?
I was also wondering if the second e-book reflected a price change also, so I looked up both ISBNs. The first one points to a Barnes & Noble Nook book, priced at $10.99, marked down from the regular price of $11.99. The second ISBN could not be found, and the notes say that the data was from Amazon, but the current Amazon listing doesn't have an ISBN. So, do Amazon and Barnes & Noble use different ISBNs for their versions of the same e-book (Same publisher)? Now I'm at a loss as to how to proceed. At the least, I guess I need to verify the other e-book, and not the one that B&N is selling, and un-verify the B&N book? Sorry to cause difficulties! Sjmathis 15:08, 23 April 2020 (EDT)
Ah, no worries :)
Amazon hides the ISBNs for ebooks so unless a Look Inside has it or you can see on a publisher site, it is hard to find. If there are two ISBNs, there are two books more often than not. Some publishers put the same ISBN for all their ebooks regardless of type; some of them have multiple ISBNs for different formats (Kindle, ePub (Nook uses that), PDF for example or a combination of the 3). If they use the different ISBNs approach, we add each of the formats separately - as they are valid ISBNs and add notes on what is what.
If the ASIN is the same in Amazon, it is the same book - they just changed the price. No clones needed for that. If you want to add a note on the price, be my guest but... it is a losing game - they change prices all the time. :(
Clear as mud, I know :) Annie 15:15, 23 April 2020 (EDT)
OK. Is there some way to find an ISBN for an Amazon e-book (from Amazon)? In this case the publisher wouldn't help, unless they assign a different ISBN for the book each time they give it to a distributor? Nope, I looked on the Open Road website, and they sell it through several sites, Amazon, B&N, Apple, Kobo, Google and Overdrive (which refers you back to Amazon & Kobo). Different prices for different sources, but all except Amazon show the same ISBN as B&N. No one shows the ISFDB number uses for the second e-book, so it must be an Amazon book if it exists. Hence I probably verified the wrong book. Can you restore the notes of the book that I edited? I'll swap the verifications.
Amazon and eISBNs are tricky. The older version of the API could find them (and we have a lot from there); the newer one cannot. Goodreads], so does b&N, Google and some more sites. So that ISBN (9781453295472) is a valid one for this ebook at least at some point. There may be a re-issuance later with a new ISBN - which is what you may have now? I am not sure as you never mentioned your other ISBN so I cannot check it anywhere.
I have no way to restore the notes short of restoring a full DB archive somewhere and extracting from it... But I do not remember too many notes there so cleaning back down is easy enough. Annie 15:58, 23 April 2020 (EDT)
OK. The Goodreads, B&N, and all the other ISBNs I was able to find are all the same (978-1-4532-9547-2), and are given for the second book listed (first ebook) in the three listings of "Selected Stories" in the ISFDB. The third book listed under "Selected Stories" (the second ebook) has a different ISBN (978-1-4804-1051-0), which I couldn't find outside of the ISFDB. comes up blank, as does, and even on the Vintage Books website (mentioned in the notes). From what you say above, I'm guessing that this other ISBN was entered from Amazon's Kindle entry back in 2014-06-14, when the book was entered into the ISFDB. Will Amazon tell me the ISBN for the Kindle version if I ask them? For now, I'm going to 1) remove the notes I put into the first ebook, the 978-1-4532-9547-2 version, and leave it as it was before I verified it as much as I can remember, 2) Put the contents into the second ebook, the 978-1-4804-1051-0 version, as I'm assuming that is the one that I was reading. So, since the one that I was reading has no ISBN (and we can't find any book with that ISBN), should I erase the ISBN from the record? Move it to the notes with an explanation? Something else? Thanks! Sjmathis 10:41, 24 April 2020 (EDT)

The Shooting Star / Terror in the Night and Other Stories

I accepted your edit to The Shooting Star / Terror in the Night and Other Stories, but am a bit confused. Based on the pub note, this pub was entered before we had page number sorting (see "Sorting" at Template:PubContentFields:Page). You updated the short story page numbers, but left the pub note and the "v" for the novel. I would assume the novel does not actual start on page "v"? -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:30, 24 April 2020 (EDT)

It's an Ace Double (dos format - back-to-back). As the notes explain, to separate the titles, one is listed with Roman numerals, and the other with Arabic numbers. In this case the collection uses Arabic numbers, and the novel (Shooting Star) has a Roman number (v) to keep it separate. The novel starts on page 5, which was converted to Roman (V).
To prevent confusion, it probably should have been entered with the novel as the first title (and numbered with a V), and then the collection as the second book (with no number), followed by the contents, numbered with Arabic numbers corresponding to actual page numbers. I don't believe I know how to do that, but if you do, feel free to proceed.
For some reason, perhaps because the novel is Non-Genre, this was the only Ace Double in the ISFDB that hadn't been verified, so I bought a copy in order to verify it. Jack. Sjmathis 11:22, 24 April 2020 (EDT)
The roman numeral trick was used prior to having the sort order option. These days, page numbers should be recorded as given and the sort function used to maintain order. I have updated the publication. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 15:20, 24 April 2020 (EDT)
Thanks very much. I've seen the Roman numerals used so many times that I've gotten used to it. I wasn't aware that it was no longer used. Putting the actual page number into the novel with the aid of the sorting function works fine, and the result is what I was trying to do without knowing how to do it. Many thanks.
I looked to see how you had changed it. I also recall that you had put a note on my talk page when I was trying to correct the order of a collection of stories in an ebook that I had verified, so I re-read the help page that you had referenced then, and I understand it better now. Have all the Ace Doubles with collections been fixed? I was simply putting page numbers in without thinking about how they would be attached to the two books. The Roman numeral and the note were there when I started. Sjmathis 10:59, 25 April 2020 (EDT)
I doubt all the older books have been changed. I'm not aware of anyone doing a systematic update. Those type of things tend to get handled when someone has a need to update a pub. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:56, 25 April 2020 (EDT)
I'd guess that most Ace Doubles have been verified may times. As I mentioned above, this book was the only one that I'm aware of that had never been verified, so most of them are not going to be updated soon. I'll take a look at them when I have some time. Sjmathis 23:47, 25 April 2020 (EDT)

Sentinels from Space / The Ultimate Invader and Other Science-Fiction: Stories From the Four Corners of Time

With this kind of changes (as I call them the housekeeping ones - they do not change anything but bring a record to policy), there is no need to notify any of the verifiers on their page as long as you explain in the moderator note (as you did here - or a bit longer), they will see the Changed Primary notifications. Annie 14:37, 27 April 2020 (EDT)

Great! Thanks very much. I'll see what others I can find. Jack. Sjmathis 15:27, 27 April 2020 (EDT)

Contraband Rocket / The Forgotten Planet

If I approve this, you will end up with 2 entries on position 1 and 2 on position 2 and if we ever change the default order, who knows which one will win :) What I do in these cases is either to use 1.1 and 1.2 for the first book and 2.1 and 2.2 for the second or use 1, 2 for the first and 101, 102 for the second. These numbers are invisible for the browsing person - they are just to tell the server what goes after what -- and as such you should not have 2 entries on the same number and you can use whatever numbers you want as long as there are no repetitions. That is why if we have two small pieces on the same page, we do 38|38.1 and 38|38.2 for example. Would you like to cancel this one and try again? Annie 21:50, 27 April 2020 (EDT)

Drat. I'm cancelling it. I thought I understood how this sorting works, but I guess I don't. I'll think about it again. Sjmathis 22:01, 27 April 2020 (EDT)
If there is something after a pipe (1|0.2, v|1, viii|2), the string after the | is always taken for sorting inside of the book. If there is no pipe anywhere (1,23, 103), think of it as a short way to type a position: 1 as a shortcut for 1|1, 103 a short way to type 103|103 and so on - if it is just a number, you do not need to add the same after the pipe - the server knows to do it. If you do not add any numbers (or you add non-numbers and no pipes, it assumes they are all |0 -- and dumps them based on whatever our default sorting is (order of adding in the book at the moment). Once the server finds where everything sorts, it just sorts them. Hope that makes sense. :) Annie 22:10, 27 April 2020 (EDT)
Still doesn't make perfect sense, but I took another stab at it. When JLaTondre did it for me, it looked like he put in a 'book number' in the first two entries, then the rest seemed to sort itself out automagically. That's what I was trying to do with the first try. Reading the help guide for the fourth or fifth time, I think you can force the sort order to go into what ever you put after the pipe. Your explanation of a 103 turning into a 103|103 makes more sense. I see why what I had before wouldn't work. Thanks for your patience! Jack Sjmathis 22:20, 27 April 2020 (EDT)
No worries. Correct - the value after the pipe is the one that matters (thus my 103 -> 103|103 explanation to show that every page number does behave as if there is a pipe even if you do not see it). It is fun the first time you mistype and do something like 31|3.1 instead of 31|31.1 :)
Sometimes the default values do mess up things when you try to understand - I would not add a pipe if I know that something is sorting cleanly anyway. And that can get confusing if someone is trying to figure out how it works. And there is always a default order which may work now but can be changed at any time (but while it is working, it can confuse you even more) so... I make sure I explicitly tell a server how to sort - if a page number does not have just a unique number, it needs a pipe. :) If I can assist further, just let me know. Annie 22:33, 27 April 2020 (EDT)

(unindent)For the start of a collection/ anthology, use a pipe with nothing in front of it (|1.1 for example) -- making sure that the number is before the start of the first piece inside of the collection/anthology. Annie 23:14, 27 April 2020 (EDT)

OK. In this case I was confused by the presence of the Frontspiece. I figured that the start of the book was after that, but I wasn't sure if the start of the book was considered to be before the Table of Contents (on un-numbered page [iv]) or at the start of the first story (on numbered page 5), and of course, if you put it on page 5, you would have to add "5|5.1" to the first story in the collection, right? I agree that leaving the page number off solves the problem elegantly :) Sjmathis 23:32, 27 April 2020 (EDT)
Yep. Or you put |4.9 so that the 5 coming on the story does not need a pipe to sort. But either works. :) Annie 23:45, 27 April 2020 (EDT)

Off Center / The Rithian Terror

I had to reject your edit to Off Center / The Rithian Terror. In addition to adding the page sorts, you changed the interior art title from "Off Center" to "Off Center Illustrations". However, the first is correct. Untitled illustrations should have the same title as the story they illustrate. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 20:42, 1 May 2020 (EDT)

OK. Makes sense. What I was trying to do was to reflect the fact that each story has an untitled illustration, and I was trying to show that there were several of them. I think what you are suggesting is that I should have entered an illustration for each story, using the story name, rather than one entry for the book? Also, that would have put them on the correct page, come to think of it. I'll try again.
I took another stab at it. After looking at it again, I remembered that one of the reasons I changed the name was that the name was already different, as it has a blank in front of the name. Perhaps that isn't noticeable? Anyway, I thought perhaps the entry after the title and the note are sufficient to explain the the illustrations are where they are. Is the blank there in order to affect the sort?
When there are multiple illustrations in a book, there are two ways to handle it:
  1. Enter an interior art record for each individual illustration
  2. Enter a single interior art record for all of them
Either solution is acceptable. If using the second one, a pub note should explain that.
For the blank, are you talking about how on the display the interior art record is indented? That is simply how the software displays art records. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:28, 3 May 2020 (EDT)
OK. Understood. I think it's OK now. Thanks for the help. Jack Sjmathis 09:53, 3 May 2020 (EDT)

Wanderer's Escape


Thanks for adding this one - a few notes though :)

  • The date format in the notes is better to be 2020-05-24 and not 5/24/20. While it is clear here, a date of 07/05/20 will be read differently on both sides of the pond, not to mention a date of 06/07/08 which can be read in 3 different ways depending on where in the world you are :)
  • When adding books, check which has an earlier date - the ebook or the tp and add the earlier one first. That way we do not need to adjust the date to add the other. In this case, the date went from 2018 (for the tp) to 2013 (when I added the ebook).

The book you added is here and here is the ebook. Also a "Cover image" copyright on self-published books is the same as cover artist so I added that as well. Let me know if there are any questions and/or concerns with this one. Annie 22:38, 24 May 2020 (EDT)

Thanks for the explanations. I'm glad to see that most of what I put in was correct. :) I remembered to fix the date format in the printing date, but I forgot to fix it in the notes. I didn't realize that the submittal order mattered, so thanks for explaining and adding the ebook. I was going to add it after corrections were made to the tp book that I was adding. I left off the cover artist credit, as I wasn't sure it would be considered "artwork". Simon Goodson wasn't listed in the ISFDB, so I figured it was worth adding at least one of his books. Amazon has a bunch of his books, but that's the only one I've read. If I find time to read more of them, I'll add some more. Jack Sjmathis 23:01, 24 May 2020 (EDT)
What you had was ok - accept the above as "if you want to make it perfect" kind of notes -- when editors listen to corrections, I tend to try to assist them towards getting the data as correct as possible from the start :)
We are missing a lot of the self-published authors (too many books, too little time, not enough editors...). We have a couple of editors specializing in adding them and I tend to do that when I have time but still... there are a lot of missing books. :) If you feel like, you can add the rest of them even if you never read them. And yes - we WANT the books :)
The date thing is not really a big problem with novels - it is just one date (unlike collections and anthologies) - but still... better not to need the change. As for the art - the guy is most likely a designer but the copyright/credit is for "art" so... we note it - when someone notices anyway. Annie 23:19, 24 May 2020 (EDT)
Thanks again. I'll add some more when I can get to them. I liked the book - it's good old fashioned space opera, which usually appeals to me. Since you responded to my question about Tor Doubles, I'll mention that I went ahead and opened up that potential can of worms, by submitting an edit for the first one that I own, changing the format from 'pb' to 'dos'. We'll see how that goes over. I realize that only one of the Primary Verifiers is active at the moment, but perhaps I can get a response from him. Jack Sjmathis 23:57, 24 May 2020 (EDT)
I plan to put that on on hold and check with Willem before approving. I think you are correct on this edit but as he is usually around during the European day, he should be able to respond quickly. Annie 00:01, 25 May 2020 (EDT)

Grantville Gazette VII - adding stories and 2nd editor

Hi! I'd like to make some additions to [[23]] and got sent here from my questions posted in the help wiki. I own the book, and noticed that the internal content isn't entered. Help advise suggested doing a 'primary verify', but with the 2nd editor missing, that seemed wrong. I'm willing to make the edits, but thought I'd let you know what is going on. --GlennMcG 16:36, 24 June 2020 (EDT)

Thanks! That would be great. Usually I do that, but I missed this one, probably because the Hardcover copy hadn't been verified and is also missing the contents. Also, I didn't see Paula Goodlett on the title page, and you're right, she should be a second editor, even though her name isn't on the cover. You should also add yourself as a Primary Verifier. Finally, if your cover is better than mine, you might consider scanning it and replacing mine - which has a big crease in it. Steam ahead! Jack Sjmathis 09:01, 25 June 2020 (EDT)
It appears that we were looking at two different copies of the same book. It's been straightened out now, and you can look at it to see what they have done with it. The Magazine versions have been moved into their own listings and renamed, which eliminates the confusion. Thanks for bringing attention to the issue.

The Man in the Maze

another copy of this book with the same cover art was just confirmed by that artist, Jim Burns, as his work. So I've added credit to The Man in the Maze. Susan O'Fearna 16:25, 20 August 2020 (EDT)

OK, I see the credit on the fifth printing. The one I verified was the fourth printing, and it still has no artist listed. Did you want me to enter the credit? Either way is fine with me. Thanks for the info. Jack Sjmathis 09:44, 21 August 2020 (EDT)

Ride the Star Winds

Hello. There has been a discussion here and here about correct artist attribution for the cover of one of the Ride the Star Winds publication records. Could you therefore confirm that your mass-market copy of Ride the Star Winds has - or has not - Allan Pollack credited as cover artist on the copyright page of your copy? Thank you very much in advance. Regards, MagicUnk 14:04, 22 September 2020 (EDT)

Heh, forget that I asked. You already answered this exact same question in 2016 here :) MagicUnk 14:08, 22 September 2020 (EDT)
No Problem. Glad to help anytime. Jack. Sjmathis 21:00, 22 September 2020 (EDT)

Survival Tactics


Can you look at this one? The author on the book level misses "H." while all stories do. Is the "H." used on the title pages on the individual stories? Thanks! Annie 17:55, 2 October 2020 (EDT)

The book is a free e-book that I downloaded from the author's website. Her website mentioned that she was giving it away in celebration of the fourth anniversary of the publication of her first book. Her novels are in the database, so I added it also. I verified it as transient, as I wasn't sure if I was going to keep it. The contents page lists only the story name, not the author, and there's no name on the first page of each story, but in the back of the book, she listed each story with a copyright date, and each of the copyrights are by "Elizabeth H. Bonesteel", so that's what I entered when I entered the contents. It's the same person, so perhaps I should have entered it as "Elizabeth Bonesteel as Elizabeth H. Bonesteel? I guess it's her legal name? I've read the three books in her "Central Corp" trilogy, but they were also e-books that I borrowed from Overdrive, and I don't have copies of them at the moment. Her Facebook page and her website don't seem to mention the "H." initial, so perhaps you should just discard it and minimize the confusion. Jack. Sjmathis 21:46, 2 October 2020 (EDT)
We go by title page for credits. If the stories in a collection do not have an author on their own title pages (normal for collections), we use the name as given on the title page of the collection, not on copyright and/or credits pages. For self-published ebooks, if there is no real title page (it is the cover followed by contents and then the stories), the cover becomes de-facto title page; if there is a separate one, then we use that (both for the title and for the author). So in this case we will default on the shorter name. I will fix it. Thanks for the details! Let me know if you have any questions/concerns and thanks for adding the book! Annie 21:56, 2 October 2020 (EDT)
Thanks for the explanation! I'm guessing that she'll continue to publish more books, and we'll see her again. I didn't think to verify (transient) her e-books when I read them, and I'd buy them if they were published in MMPB format, but so far they are just in ebook and TP format. Sjmathis 11:28, 3 October 2020 (EDT)


As it seems you had not played with them, here is a quick note with a link for future references. If you click on the question mark next to any Note and Synopsis field, at the bottom of the help page, there is a link to this page. It links both the linking templates (they create links for you so if the other page ever changes their format, we do not need to change them one by one; every external ID has a matching one (or more) and we have a few more) and the non-linking ones (which just produce text for uniformity and so it can be found for current and future cleanup operations). :) Annie 12:35, 2 February 2021 (EST)

Excellent! Thanks. One thing I was hoping to find in the Templates is a way to easily enter a reference to a publication record, like I forgot to do when I left the message to Bob. Is there something like that? Jack Sjmathis 10:53, 3 February 2021 (EST)
So the templates I linked are for inside of Notes/Synopsis fields (aka in the DB). For the Wiki we have a totally different set of them :)
{{P|269970|Whatever string you want to show up}} is what you need for the Wiki but I prefer [ Whatever string you want to show up]. One of them makes a green string: Whatever string you want to show up, the other does not Whatever string you want to show up but both work. All Wiki/Talk templates are here. Click on any of them to see an explanation on how they are used. Annie 11:04, 3 February 2021 (EST)
You're right. I was looking at the DB help, instead of the WIKI help. So then I went to the explanation of the P template in the WIKI help, and got totally confused as it gave an example using a tag, which doesn't appear on the page in the ISFDB, but I figured it out, since it works fine with the number appearing in the top right corner of the page in the ISFDB, if you leave off the BKTG part of the example (and use the correct number). The trick is to copy the publication record number (top right #) to your clipboard before going to the talk page, and then pasting it into the message that you are writing, because once you're typing a message, you can't see the record that you are describing. Jack Sjmathis 15:33, 3 February 2021 (EST)
If you click on "Upload Picture", you will see the Tag there :) But ID works as well. Hope that makes sense. Or you can get the whole string and the ID is there. I use multiple tabs usually ;) Annie 15:47, 3 February 2021 (EST)

Sense of Wonder

Wow, that was a blockbuster to enter! I did notice some minor discrepancies though, which I hope you can solve. Karel Čapek (Sense of Wonder) is attributed to Leigh Grossman, the canonical, instead of Leigh Ronald Grossman. Science Fiction in Western Europe (Sense of Wonder) is attributed to Sonja Fritsche, but I think this might be a typo for Sonja Fritzsche -either by you or by the publisher.--Dirk P Broer 07:58, 12 March 2021 (EST)

Actually, it was already entered when I ran across it on Overdrive and gave it a Transient Verify. Right now it has a wait list on Overdrive, so I can't check it out again right away, and I'm unable to look at it right now. I put a 'hold' on it, and when it becomes available again, I'll take a look at it. Overdrive lets you check it out for 21 days, and I'm #6 on the waiting list, so it might take a while for me to get to look at it again. Jack Sjmathis 10:23, 13 March 2021 (EST)
Looking more closely, I see the TP version of the book has a note about the TOC being available on Wildside's website. My guess is that the TP entry was done first and the ebook version was entered later, and that's where the ebook TOC came from. You can guess that something like that would have typos in it. The ebook price has been reduced slightly, while the TP price has increased. I'm tempted to buy the ebook, but right now I have a lot on my shelf that I've not had a chance to read yet. :-) Jack Sjmathis 10:49, 13 March 2021 (EST)
Dirk, thanks for your QA/QC on "Sense of Wonder". While I have tried to be very methodical and organized, there is no doubt that the rather immense magnitude of this work was a challenge and I can use all the help available. 1) The author for the "Karel Čapek (Sense of Wonder)" author bio is now shown as "Leigh Ronald Grossman" for both tp and ebook. This was corrected as I went through the process with AnnieMod on getting all of this entered. 2) You are correct on the author entry for the "Science Fiction in Western Europe". I agree that perhaps I had the incorrect author spelling from the publisher's website, or that I just made the mistake myself. There is no doubt that it should be "Sonja Fritzsche", as that is shown in both the ebook TOC and the text of the essay itself. I will make the author correction on this.Dave888 13:02, 25 March 2021 (EDT)

Sense of Wonder

Hi. I have just spent almost two weeks getting the contents of Grossman's "Sense of Wonder" filled in. I am also a Primary Verifier, as I own the ebook.

Looking at it one more time, I noticed that the complete title, with subtitle, is "Sense of Wonder: A Century of Science Fiction". I think that the title should be updated to include the subtitle, as the ISFDB standards are to include subtitles.

I checked with my usual moderator, AnnieMod, and she suggested I should check with you as the other verifier.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks. Dave888 14:30, 24 March 2021 (EDT)

I am just moving this here. Dave, use people's Talk pages, not their User pages :) Annie 15:08, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
Hi Dave888, If you're looking on my Talk page, you'll see that Dirk also asked me a question about the book recently, and as I mentioned to him, I am only a "Transient Verifier" of the ebook. I don't actually have a copy of the book, as I explained to Dirk, but I'd tend to agree with you. One problem with that is that if that's the case for the e-book, the TP version of the book would have to change also (I think), but since there is no primary verifier for that copy, it should be possible to do that without any arguments. I hope Annie agrees.
Also, while you're at it, see if you can answer Dirk's question that he left for me. That will save me the trouble of trying to check the book out of Overdrive again. Thanks very much. Jack Sjmathis 17:24, 24 March 2021 (EDT)
Jack, thanks for your input and concurrence. I will revise all 3 entries to include the subtitle. Annie concurred as long as you were OK.
I will answer Dirk's question above. I believe I have already addressed at least part of it (the old reference to "Leigh Grossman" instead of "Leigh Ronald Grossman" on "R.U.R.", which has been corrected). Thanks for pointing me in that direction.
Dave888 12:51, 25 March 2021 (EDT)
Glad to help & thanks for handling Dirk's question. I can drop my request to check out the book again. Looks like an incredible book, and I will look at it again when the amount of stuff on my 'to-be-read' shelf gets emptier. Jack Sjmathis 16:18, 25 March 2021 (EDT)
Yeah, it is a pretty incredible book. I purchased it for my adult daughter, who has read some SF/fantasy novels, but not really shorter fiction. After that, a few months went by, she was enjoying it a lot, and I bought myself a copy. Despite a lifetime of reading SF and fantasy, there is a lot of great fiction I have never read. Also, the author bios and the essays are fantastic. Good luck.Dave888 21:22, 25 March 2021 (EDT)

The Sword of the Lady (map)

Would you please double check the spelling of the artist's name for the map in The Sword of the Lady? Instead of "Courtney" should it be "Cortney"? The other records we had under Courtney Skinner where all database misspellings of Cortney Skinner. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:34, 17 April 2021 (EDT)

You are absolutely correct. It should be "Cortney". I fixed it. Jack Sjmathis 07:06, 18 April 2021 (EDT)

Proposed Map Consolidation

As a PV of at least one publication of Inheritor or Precursor , please take a moment to look at Foreigner Map Consolidation and leave your comments. Thanks, John Scifibones 16:19, 13 May 2021 (EDT)

Great Science Fiction by Scientists

I'm adding the eighth printing of your verified Great Science Fiction by Scientists. There are some author credit differences with your version and wanted to check if they are pub differences or database errors:

  • page 33, database author is John Taine, but eighth printing has Eric Temple Bell
  • page 225, database author is James V. McConnell, but eighth printing has James McConnell
  • page 297, database author is W. Norbert, but eighth printing has Norbert Wiener

Do you mind double checking your version? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:17, 22 August 2021 (EDT)

Apologies for the delay in responding - I was traveling. My copy is the sixth printing.
  • page 33 - My copy has Eric Temple Bell in both the Contents page and in the Acknowledgements.
  • page 225 - My copy has James McConnell in both the Contents page and in the Acknowledgements.
  • Page 297 - My copy has Norbert Wiener in both the Contents page and in the Acknowledgements.

Sure looks like database errors to me. Jack Sjmathis 11:29, 26 August 2021 (EDT)

Can you look at the title pages of the stories themselves (just in case it is different there - doubt it but as you did not mention title pages, I thought I should mention it) - if there is an author name there, this is the one we use as opposed to the contents page, copyright page or acknowledgement page. Thanks! :) Annie 19:38, 26 August 2021 (EDT)
Title pages of the stories agree with the Contents and the Acknowledgement pages. (Right, I forgot to check that.) Perhaps these are corrections that were made prior to the sixth printing? Jack Sjmathis 12:21, 27 August 2021 (EDT)
Thanks for checking! Or all versions have them this way - and our record ended up this way because of a mess-up somewhere... But without reviewing a book, the best we can do is to fix the versions we have access to... Annie 13:40, 27 August 2021 (EDT)
After writing the above, I took a look at the authors mentioned to see what else they had written. I found that "John Taine" is an author whose legal name is "Eric Temple Bell". He wrote a bunch of stuff (in the database) under that name, and only one story (the one in "Great Science Fiction by Scientists") using his legal name. So perhaps When Conklin collected the stories, he listed him under his real name as opposed to his pen name, since the idea was to show that scientists also wrote SF, and that people might not know that John Taine was a real scientist.
McConnell seems to have used both names in his writings. His legal name is "James Vernon McConnell" and some of his writings use the initial "V" and some don't.
Wiener wrote two short stories using a pseudonym of "W. Norbert", one of which is "The Brain" which first appeared in the MIT Technical Engineering News, April 1952. When Conklin 'collected' it for "Great SF by Scientists", he mentions in the short biography he wrote for each of the authors that his real name is Norbert Wiener and that he is considered the father of Cybernetics. Conklin had already published it in a collection called "Crossroads of Time", where the author is listed as "Norbert Wiener [as by W. Norbert]" so that's probably how it got into the database. It might have been entered in the "Great SF by Scientists" book the same way, and then the name changed in later editions, or maybe it went in under the real name and the database 'corrected' it? Should we check with Taweiss (PV of Crossroads) to see how it was entered there? Jack Sjmathis 10:59, 28 August 2021 (EDT)
Thank you for checking. I have updated the credits in your printing of Great Science Fiction by Scientists. Per the Internet Archive scan of Crossroads in Time, it used W. Norbert on the title page so that record is correct. Thanks! -- JLaTondre (talk) 07:55, 29 August 2021 (EDT)
Thanks for mentioning the Internet Archive. I was aware of its existence, but I had never used it before. I was able to sign up for an account, and I see how you were able to look at the title page of the story. That's really useful. Many thanks. Jack Sjmathis 09:58, 29 August 2021 (EDT)

Encounter with Tiber

Hi, I added the pieces of interior art to this, but wasn't able to find the exact English title for each of them (some were logical, a few more were displayed with Amazon's look inside). For the order of the page numbers I used the note that already was there with the first US edition. If you find the time please do a check (and could you find out the right titles and correct pages?). Thanks, Stonecreek 06:00, 8 November 2021 (EST)

Sure. I corrected the page numbers to be what it actually says in the note on my copyright page, but I'm not able to correct the titles (they're in grey boxes). The first couple are OK, here's the rest of them that need correcting.
82 Earth/Moon Libration Points
113 Alpha Centauri System
123 Lunar South Pole Site
177 Condor Peregine Separation
223 Alpha Centauri System (Tiber - Near Side & Far Side)
251 Starship Wahkopem Zomos
Note - the title in my book has "Wahkopem", not "Wahkopen" - perhaps it's an "n" in German?
424 Starship Egalitarian Republic
529 Martian Artic
547 Earth-Mars Cycling System
Thanks, I'll do the changes: if the content titles do appear in more than one publication (that's why they are in grey, uneditable boxes) you just have to do the change on the title level. But thanks again. Stonecreek 13:23, 8 November 2021 (EST)
Thanks - I never had learned how to change them. Sjmathis 15:26, 9 November 2021 (EST)

The Vanished Seas

I'd like to submit an edit for your PVed [24], changing the page count from 480 to 461. I also plan on adding edition/printing/C$/cover-artist info as well. Any objections? --GlennMcG 01:41, 12 November 2021 (EST)

Thanks. Please proceed. Sorry about missing those things. Sometimes I buy two or three books at a time and PV the ones that are blank, and set them aside to scan the cover and edit the notes. I must have missed that one. Jack Sjmathis 14:03, 12 November 2021 (EST)
Edit submitted and accepted. Thanks. --GlennMcG 14:49, 15 November 2021 (EST)

Trail of Evil / Taylor

You PVed publication Trail of Evil which is noted 'no number line used'. My copy has a 10—1 number line. Would you check? Thanks. --GlennMcG 17:25, 7 January 2022 (EST)

My mistake. Mine also has a number line, and mine is a second printing, which I didn't notice, which means the printing date is probably wrong too. Please enter yours. and I'll fix mine. Jack 23:42, 7 January 2022 (EST)
You two had "competing" edits for the same pub. GlennMcG's was processed first. Sjmathis, since this record has always been for the first printing, it should remain that way. You should clone a new record for the second printing and transfer your verification to it. However, your edit used the date of 2016? What is the source for that? It should be included in the pub notes. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:41, 8 January 2022 (EST)
Yes, of course. I knew I was doing something wrong, but wasn't sure what it was. I'll fix it & resubmit. 12:38, 8 January 2022 (EST)

Amazon and ISBNs for ebooks

About 2 years (or so) ago, Amazon stopped showing ISBNs for ebooks. So you have two options:

  • Look inside when available: a lot of ebooks have their copyright pages at the back of the book these days though making the Look Inside unusable for that.
  • Use other sources - i.e. Kobo USA for example (or Kobo UK for UK books), author sites, blogs and so on. You need to be careful with the versions though - Kobo has the ePub books, Amazon has the mobi books. For most of the books, these are the same book except for the format so we keep the same record - so you just add the ISBN to the same record where the ASIN is. But for the ones that are not (different covers, different publisher and so on), we will want to keep them separate. Different dates can be tricky - sometimes it is just different loading date so play it by ear and if you add the ISBN and the dates differ, add it in the notes. When not sure, leave the record without an ISBN.

Hope this helps and let me know if you have any questions. :)

PS: We support 16 Amazons so instead of Amazon, can we use for the US one? I changed it here and also added a note on the cover/title page discrepancy so someone does not decide to "fix it" later and a cover while I was there. Feel free to change the wording or the link. :) Annie 12:01, 8 March 2022 (EST)

Thanks very much. I did the 'look inside' thing when I entered the book and the ISBN wasn't there. I do see the ISBN on Kobo, but it's for a later release, so I'm ignoring it. I read the book as part of a package of the first three books of the series, after downloading it from Hoopla, and I've returned it to the library a long time ago, so I can't look at it without 'borrowing' it again. If I happen to have extra borrows available at the end of the month, I'll check on it then. Jack Sjmathis 15:39, 8 March 2022 (EST)
Yup - although it may as well be the same release just with a different distribution dates per format - which some publishers do occasionally. Anyway - the book is fine as is at the moment IMO. The above was just a quick "what to do in such cases" - I've been adding most of the new and forthcoming books in the last couple of years so I kinda learned some tricks on where to look for things. :) Annie 16:05, 8 March 2022 (EST)
I added the rest of the books in the series. I've recently read all of them except the last one using Hoopla, while I was on vacation. There are a couple of typos in the notes, which I will fix after they get approved. Sjmathis 17:03, 8 March 2022 (EST)
I do wonder if the series should not be changed to Wanderer and the titles cleaned up - all but the first have the same part and always before a -... Or maybe add a Wanderer subseries under the main series - because this does feel like a series name. What do you think? If we decide to go that way, I will fix these post approval (as I should have mentioned earlier - had been thinking since I approved the first one) Annie 17:16, 8 March 2022 (EST)
I simply copied the series name from Amazon's Goodson page, so I assume Goodson named it that way. He has a couple more series of books that might be in the same 'Universe', but I haven't read them. Also, the first three books in the series are available in Kindle format as one Kindle book titled "Wanderers Odyssey, Books 1-3". I tried the 'Look Inside' to see how it's titled, but for some reason it didn't work. I guess I'd vote to leave it the same, but I wouldn't object to changing it. Sjmathis 09:44, 10 March 2022 (EST)
Every time I see the same words as part of every single title (and not as part of the title proper but separated like here), I think "series". So just asking :) Annie 11:03, 10 March 2022 (EST)

Prison Planet

For Prison Planet, would you mind if I change "Stated 1st printing, full number line" to two notes: "Ace edition/March 1989" and "First printing by full number line."? Thanks! Phil 10:08, 24 March 2022 (EDT)

That would be great. Another book I verified but forgot to clean up the notes. I think that happens when I buy several books, verify the ones that need it, and forget to fix the notes, or else I'm just getting too old. Thanks very much. Jack Sjmathis 10:04, 25 March 2022 (EDT)

The Year of the Ransom in Time Patrol

Hi! Depending on the outcome of this thread it seems that this fiction text is really a novella. So, don't be surprised that the OMNIBUS may have to be turned into a COLLECTION. Though I guess that ought to be done anyway? (Typically an OMNIBUS should have at least two booklength content titles, as was communicated quite recently). Christian Stonecreek 07:36, 30 March 2022 (EDT)

OK by me. Those kinds of decisions are above my pay grade. Jack Sjmathis 18:29, 30 March 2022 (EDT)

Starfish cover

My copy of Starfish has a metallic silver background to the main title on cover page. I'm assuming the image on the record is blueish due to scan issues, rather than the actual color, but please confirm. --Glenn 23:46, 10 April 2022 (EDT)

My copy also has the metallic silver background with blue lettering of the title. The scan was by Bluesman. If you want to replace the scan, I don't think anyone would object. Jack Sjmathis 17:58, 11 April 2022 (EDT)
Image updated. --Glenn 18:51, 11 April 2022 (EDT)
Nice! Looks like my copy now. Sjmathis

Celestial Hit List

For Celestial Hit List, the spelling of the cover artist is "Vincent DiFate" on the copyright page but is "Vincent Di Fate" in the pub record. I just submitted changes to make the pub record match the copyright page value and will make the new cover title record a variant of the existing cover art title record. Let me know if this is a problem. Phil 11:57, 7 May 2022 (EDT)

OK. Not a problem. It is the same on Volumes 2, 4, 5, & 6 of this series. Vol 2 looks fine, but #4, 5, & 6 need to be fixed also? Frank Morris did the cover for Vol 1, and Vincent did the rest. JackSjmathis 12:36, 7 May 2022 (EDT)

The Masterharper of Pern

For The Masterharper of Pern, I changed the page count to [10]+422 and changed the page for the map to [8]. I also removed the invalid LCCN reference and replaced it with a note. Phil 07:48, 16 June 2022 (EDT)

Fine. Jack 16:20, 16 June 2022 (EDT)

The Skies of Pern

For The Skies of Pern, would you mind if I:
1. Change the page count to [12]+456+[11]
2. Import title "Ninth Pass Pern (map)" on page [10]
3. Import title "The Physics of Pern" on page [457]
4. Add new title "Dragondex (The Skies of Pern)" on page [463]

Thanks! Phil 08:22, 16 June 2022 (EDT)

Fine. Jack Sjmathis 16:21, 16 June 2022 (EDT)


For Dragonsblood, I'd like to change the page count to xiii+452+[7]; the current Roman numeral count doesn't account for the map and the unnumbered count at the end is wrong by current standards. I'd also like to import the map title on page [xii] and add a couple of notes. What do you think? Phil 08:04, 17 June 2022 (EDT)

Sounds fine. Steam ahead. Jack Sjmathis 11:41, 17 June 2022 (EDT)

John Varley / Titan (map & diagram)

I am drawing your attention to this topic on the Community Portal which affects a pub that you have PVd. Teallach (talk) 18:30, 26 September 2022 (EDT)

Thanks. Either way is fine with me. My copy is an old PB of a later printing. Sjmathis (talk) 09:07, 27 September 2022 (EDT)

The Serpent / Pub series ?

I'm curious why you added the "Time of Heros" as a publication series to The Serpent, as the title already is marked as a conventional series. --Glenn (talk) 15:16, 24 December 2022 (EST)

Beats me. I don't recall doing it, but I guess I did. I took it out of the book, not sure if that will make it go away as a series or not. Thanks for spotting that. Jack Sjmathis (talk) 10:03, 26 December 2022 (EST)

Year of the Lucy Tor PB; I added the Tor HC link from and the Galasinski cover credit; PV didn't add artist for some reason. Your PV Tor PB, which looks similar to HC except they subbed a cooler car and younger people, was signed by DeVito according to the note, which is clearly Joe DeVito's style, So if he's really not credited I believe you're supposed to enter it as signed and then variant to the parent name, right? --Username (talk) 19:52, 6 February 2023 (EST)

I'm really not sure how it's handled. I don't remember entering the book, and I'm not sure the comment about the signature is mine. I looked at my copy, and it does have DeVito's signature on the cover, but there's no credit on the copyright page. Sorry I can't help more. JackSjmathis (talk) 08:49, 16 February 2023 (EST)

The Pursuit of the Pankera CD

I just submitted changes to The Pursuit of the Pankera CD for the price and format, plus added notes for the length and narrator. Phil (talk) 07:21, 23 February 2023 (EST)

Great. I don't own it (note the "Transient" verification), but I listened to it on Hoopla, which is an audio track available through my library, so for me it was a freebie. Jack Sjmathis (talk) 11:53, 23 February 2023 (EST)
If you listen through Hoopla or any other online platform (Audible, Overdrive, Libby and so on), the type will never be an Audio CD - it will be "digital audio download". The Audio CD and Audio MP3 CD types are for physical disks (think hardcover vs ebook in the non-audio world). :) Annie (talk) 12:07, 23 February 2023 (EST)
Aha! another type of pub that I didn't know about. I see I should have added a new pub, instead of 'verifying' that one. I'll pull my verification off the "CD" version, and try to add another type pub to the record. Jack Sjmathis (talk)
Have fun. Please post back if you need any assistance or if you need any help. Amazon and Audible usually carry the downloadables as well (so you can get a price, maybe a date if Hoopla's is messed up and sometimes and ISBN from there). We also have two separate external IDs for this type - Amazon ASIN in the ASIN external ID and Audible ASIN in the one named appropriately. If the Audible ASIN is numerical, it is an ISBN10 so convert to ISBN13 and add to the ISBN field. Annie (talk) 11:39, 24 February 2023 (EST)

The Pursuit of the Pankera

A few things on this one:

  • The CD/MP3 ISBNs belong to the physical media. When the audio download has an ISBN, it will either be retrievable from Audible (when their ASIN is numeric) or from the publisher page. You do not use a hardcover ISBN in an ebook, same idea here
  • Added price (from Amazon/Audible - you want their list price unless you can find a list price on a publisher page) and the two external IDs.

Let me know if you have any questions. Annie (talk) 12:39, 29 March 2023 (EDT)

OK. I'm very baffled. Did you want me to change something? I agree that a CD doesn't seem to deserve an ISBN, and I guess a 'digital audio download' doesn't either, but I don't understand what you want me to change. Could you please just change it yourself? I promise not to verify any more of these, particularly since I don't own them. Sjmathis (talk) 19:12, 29 March 2023 (EDT)
I changed everything that needed changing after I approved the book. The note above explains what needed changing (and where the information can be found) after I approved your submission. You had a note that it was your first attempt so I fixed it and stopped by to give you some pointers. Go and add/verify more of these if you get your hands on them - they get easier when you add more of them. :) CDs (ours anyway - the ones with read books in them) usually have ISBNs because they are books. When you cloned/added the download, you used the MP3 CD ISBN instead of looking up the audio download one - so I swapped that with the correct one. If you cannot find the audio download ISBN, just leave the field empty. Hope this makes more sense now. Annie (talk) 20:18, 29 March 2023 (EDT)
Yes, Thanks! I try and avoid audio books, because I read (ebooks) faster than I can listen, so if Hoopla has a choice, I pick the e-book. Sometime you don't have a choice, so I get stuck with an audio book. Jack Sjmathis (talk) 20:24, 29 March 2023 (EDT)
I keep this kind of books for long plane trips usually - I'd rather read than listen otherwise. :) Annie (talk) 20:39, 29 March 2023 (EDT)