User talk:Billbunter

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Hello, Billbunter, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! MHHutchins 14:21, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

School: The Seventh Silence by Craig Herbertson

I accepted your submission for this publication but had to make a few changes to follow ISFDB standards:

  • In the binding field, there are basically three types of entries: hc (for hardcover), tp (for trade paperback), and pb (for mass-market sized paperbacks). Because of the price, I assumed this is a trade paperback. Let me know if it isn't (or edit the pub record).
  • In the ISBN field, you don't have to enter the letters "ISBN". It's understood, otherwise the system thinks those letters are part of the catalog number, not the actual ISBN.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. You can respond on this page (I've bookmarked your page so that I'll know if you make any changes in it), or pose any other question on the Moderator noticeboard or my talk page. If you have any questions about using the Wiki pages go here. Thanks and welcome to the ISFDB. MHHutchins 14:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for your response. I'm just doing a it of self promotion here as I am the author. However, I will be dodding in bits about other authors who may have been missed. Having read you bio and stuff about Locus you might be surprised to hear that you personally were a pivotal reason that School: The Seventh Silence was published.

I searched the internet for my name and found in Locus that a story had been published in mainstream book some twelve years after the event. I had given up writing and thought I'd start again down to you. So thanks for that.

Billbunter 18:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm flattered that something I did, regardless of my original intention, was part of the reason for your return to writing. Who knows how many hearts and minds you're able to reach in your writing? Congratulations, and don't slough off self promotion in any form. You have to do whatever it takes, within certain moral and legal limits. :-) Now we have to make sure to create a record for 29th Pan Book Of Horror Stories, in order to get your novelette "The Heaven Maker" in the database. MHHutchins 19:49, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Now there's a coincidence... I've just entered the Second and Fourth Pan Books of Horror as we only have the First and Third so far. I can't promise to go up to 29 anytime soon though! BLongley 22:09, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, finding the Heaven Maker was quite a pivotal moment. I had no idea it had been accepted till then.I can bang in a few of the pan horror books as I know them pretty well. I'll start with 5 and 6. I suppose Billbunter 06:58, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I've entered 5 and 6 now, and 2 and 4 still need page-numbers etc - the series can be found here. There seem to be some discrepancies between the Vault of Evil posts and the new website, so please comment on best sources, accuracy, etc - and if you can persuade some of the other people there to come and look at our data, add more, allow us to use their covers, etc, it would be great! British Horror seems under-represented here although I do go and enter some occasionally: but anyone with primary copies is especially welcome! BLongley 20:21, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

The 21st Pan Book of Horror Stories

Well I tried 21 as it was to hand. Hope it bears a faint resemblance to what is required. I will eventually get the hang of it Billbunter 11:07, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Not bad, for a first try. I approved your edit. However, there were a few minor points, which i have fixed.
  1. We show prices that are less than 1 with a leading zero, so i have corrected £.90 to £0.90.
  2. All titles should have their case regularized. That is, the first and last words are always capitalized, and so are all other words except "and", "the", "a", "an", "for", "of", "in", "on", "by", "at", "from", and "to". I have corrected the capitalization of several of the story titles in your submission. (There is an exception when an author clearly intends an unusual capitalization. For example, see "SKitty". But such cases are quite rare.)
  3. After a new anthology or collation is entered, it is often required that the shortfiction (and sometimes essay) contents be merged with already existing records for the same titles, if there are such records. (In this case this was required only for the two Stephan King records.)
The result of my corrections can be found here. Please check that the result is correct.
Please take a look at Help:Screen:EditPub, which covers these an other issues in entering publications. -DES Talk 15:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
If the book shows any indication of whether it is the first or a later printing, please mention it in the notes. If there is a cover artist credited, please put the artist's name in the "artist" field. If there are interior illustrations, please add these to the content.
Also, please check if the acknowledgments or copyright pages list prior publications for any of the stories. If they do, please correct the dates on the title records for the stories, and if enough detail is given, consider entering those earlier publications.
Finally, if the record for this book is correct and complete, please mark it as "verified" using the "Verify this pub" link. Verification from the actual book is "Primary verification".
And thank you very much for your contribution, and please continue. -DES Talk 15:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
  1. Prices: I understand now about the prices. I assume that the aim is to detail the book 'as was' or as a record of the edition of the book 'as it was'.
  2. Tiles: That was quite interesting because the chapter headings were done as per my edit. I would always have used a standarised capitalisation to the best of my ability but in this case I thought I best follow their strange efforts. Know next time.
Given the amount of work and my general stupidity I think i might better serve the isfdb by attempting some verifications. I have a fairly big collection. That way I can try to familiarise myself with the patterns expected. perhaps I'll stick some more books in later and certainly I'll do some novels rather than these anthologies at first.
Thanks for sticking in the 29th Pan
Billbunter 12:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
On price, the general aim is to indicate what the actual publication looks like, but with a few standardizations. For example, many older US books are priced at "40¢" but we list them as "$0.40" instead. This facilitates queries that compare prices, or might construct price charts, or the like. But we do want to show what the publication price was, because this is often useful in dating books, and in identifying different editions. We do not want to show the current used/collectors' price of an old edition, if that is what you are asking.
On titles, odd capitalizations are often merely a publisher's house style, with no particular intent on the part of the author(s) of the work(s) involved. In that case we normally regularize case. On the other hand, in some cases an odd capitalization is clearly part of the story as written, and in such cases we preserve it. An example is "The Eve of RUMOKO" where the all-caps on the last word is significant to the story. If you think that this is such a case, please say so. I might well have made a mistake -- look at the msgs on my talk page and you will find that I have made lots of errors here.
On "general stupidity", I don't think such a thing for a moment. The ISFDB is a rather complex and not always obvious system, with a number of its own conventions, not all of which are as well documented as they ideally should be. No one could know all of these right off. Your contribution was quite helpful as it stood, my changes were minor ones to make it conform to our often arbitrary conventions. My only intent was to explain what i did to your edit and why. Please do not think that I had any negative feelings, or was in any way dismissive of or displeased with your contributions (not that I would have any right to be either).
Please do continue to contribute here. Verifications are always useful, but almost always when verifying there is some detail to be corrected, or some note worth adding, so verifiers almost always are also editors. it is true that novels are generally simpler and easier than anthologies (magazines are often the most complex, with multiple interiorart entries in many cases), but you are very welcome to enter either. This is a cooperative project, and must be if it is to go anywhere. Your cooperation is very welcome indeed, and is appreciated. -DES Talk 15:59, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll mention it to the vault members againBillbunter_

29th Pan Book of Horror Stories

I've entered this pub including your story "The Heaven Maker". If you have the paperback at hand, please make any corrections or additions. For example, you can use the "Edit This Pub" function in the Editing Tools menu and enter the price and the page numbers, and add any additional info in the notes field. Thanks. MHHutchins 00:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

This raised a couple of questions. I checked through and priced the book 29th Pan Book of Horror - only one edition ever.
The stories are listed in the incorrect order but I numbered the pages.
I included the cover artist but he is titled 'cover photo By...' is he considered the artist?
In my own book I am the illustrator but the cover is designed by one fellow from a photo by another,. How is that catalogued.
Would it be right to assume that a more or less complete form is an acceptable as a halfway house. That is. is it better to say - list a title, content, publisher and perhaps not note how many pages there are but leave that to later editors. Or would you rather get only complete editions in?
Billbunter 12:42, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
On story order, now that you have entered the page numbers, and the edit has been approved, you will see the stories display in the proper order. Display order is driven by page numbers if they have been entered, if not (or on edit) it is alphabetical by title.
On the question of cover photos, there are some differences of opinion not yet settled. I personally would list such a person as the cover artist, perhaps with a note that the cover was a photo.
In general people who contribute to the appearance of a book such as cover designers, can be listed in the "Notes" section, as we do not currently have a field to record such credits, although there has been talk of adding one later. So I would list you as the cover artist in the "Artist" field, but would mention the designer and the person who took the photo the cover is base don in the notes section. If they are known to you but were not credited in the published book, mentioning your source is a good idea.
We would pretty much always prefer some accurate info to no info at all. Enter what you can or have time for. If something is known to be incomplete (particularly if you enter some stories but not all in a collection or anthology), mentioning this in a note would be helpful (if the page count is left out that is pretty obvious, but if some but not all contents are entered that is not so obvious). But if you have the book there, entering the page count is quite helpful and not much effort compared to what you are already doing, i would think. But do what you can or what you choose, any accurate info is helpful.
Thanks again for your contributions.-DES Talk 16:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Bio:Craig Herbertson

If you wish to enter a fuller biographical sketch you are welcome to do so, as long as it is factual in content and professional and not too promotional in tone. Please note that the author pages in the actual db support optional fields for birth place, birth date, legal name, email address, web page, Wikipedia entry, and an author image. Go to Craig Herbertson while logged in, and click "Author Data" under editing tools on the left of the screen to add or change any of these fields. -DES Talk 15:49, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, did itBillbunter 21:56, 14 October 2008 (UTC)billbunter
A few points: 1. On author data fields: For the legal name we enter as surname first. (It's the only place in ISFDB where a name is put that way, as far as I know [& I got this message the first time I did one!].) I've changed it for you. Also, if no wikipedia entry or similar, we just leave the field blank.
2. Author web pages need to have http:// in front. I've fixed for you.
3. More importantly, dates we always do yyyy-mm-dd (zeros in any mean "don't know"). When I translated, so I thought, the date you put into yyyy-mm-dd format, the result seems to indicate you published your first story at age -1. Please fix. ... clarkmci / --j_clark 00:25, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I think I've managed to change the birthdateBillbunter 22:40, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

School: The Seventh Silence again

I see that you would like to add the page count and the cover art/interior illustration credits to School: The Seventh Silence by Craig Herbertson. The submitted data looked good, but you tried to add this information to the associated Title record rather than to the Publication record. There is a fundamental difference between Titles and Publications in the ISFDB: Titles are basically texts, which can appear in many different books (standalone novels, omnibuses, magazines, collections, anthologies, etc), while Publications are individual editions of books and magazines. Everything that is specific to a particular edition -- things like page counts, ISBNs, cover art, price, etc -- has to be associated with a Publication record. Titles, on the other hand, are texts -- think of them as word processing files on their author's hard drives -- and the data associated with them would be synopsis information, text length (novelette vs. novella vs. short story), the date of first publication and similar things.

Based on the above, I added your information to the 2005 Immanion Press edition which we already had on file after your original submission and rejected this follow-up submission. By the way, we list this edition as a 2005 publication, but the publisher's Web site lists it as a 2006-01-01 book. Do you happen to own a copy of the book? Does it say anything interesting like "Published December 2005" on the copyright page? Thanks! Ahasuerus 00:21, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I think I have the general idea. Thanks and sorry for the slipsBillbunter 22:38, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Its clearly copyrighted 2005 and it also states the first edition as 2005. I'm okay with this as I have been a rare book collector for yearsBillbunter 22:47, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Second Black Horror

Hi Craig, I've got this on hold at the moment, but won't have time until tomorrow to explain why. It's nothing major. Please don't be discouraged - it's great to have contents of anthologies. (how to do multiple authors for a title; using original pub. dates for short fiction [good to put notes in the notes so it alerts us to oddities). MODs: Anyone else is welcome to explain, if you have time before I get back to it. ... clarkmci / --j_clark 00:36, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm bumbling along here. i intended to do a few more books but found you'd done them already. The lack of practice and habit is a problem - as I'm tending to approach each edit wading through information and this results in errors. I think I might confine myself to an area. Might be easier

I advertised a bit for would be contributors on the horror fieldBillbunter 22:42, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

When I was a beginner at ISFDB, I found it took a while to work out some things and often had the moderators explaining to me. The items I wanted to explain here are ...
1. When there's more than one author, type the first, then click the "Add Author" button just underneath; then type the second author in the new field that appears. (This means that each author gets their own page.)
2. Our standard way of putting authors with more than one initial is with a space after the dot, before the second/next initial. So "M.P.N. Sims" is put as "M. P. N. Sims". This is so we don't end up with some of the author's works under their name without the space(s) and some under a version with. (This isn't the same as if the author has a pseudonym or uses different versions of their name such as sometimes a middle initial, sometimes not; or sometimes Bill, sometimes William. These we want as different pages & we have ways of linking them.)
3. We put the original date of publication for items (contents) within collections & anthologies, although the actual date for the physical book itself. This isn't as inconsistent as it sounds!
Thus the Sutton story needs to be 1998-00-00, though all the rest, if this is their first publication, are 2008-00-00 as you have put (or 2008-01-03 if that's really the publication date, but 2008-00-00 is fine. or 2008-01-00 if you are sure of January being the month). The book is 2008-something-something if that's what the copyright page or other reliable info. states. (Your note gave me the info. about the Sutton story, thanks. That is, it is very useful to note such info. even if/especially if you are not sure whether/how to put in the information formally. I've left the note because it indicates a magazine we don't have an entry for & I'll copy the note to the story's title record.)
I've approved your submission then made the above changes for you, done a bit of tidy up & added an image. Is it the correct cover?
I assume the day & month of publication aren't actually on the book, and possibly not the price (these were already on the record before you added the contents) - that's what the "some data from" I've added in the "Note" is about.
However ... Would you please check the title on top of the Chinn story - Amazon UK has the last word as Stow'd. Also, the author name on top of "The Meal" - Amazon UK has the first name as Julia. As well, the author name on top of "The Pit".
Again, thanks for putting in the contents - it's great when someone recommends a story to be able to find out which book(s)/magazine it's in. ...clarkmci / --j_clark 23:19, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

correct cover Only the year of publication no other date 'Stow'd' is correct(not stowed) 'Julia' is correct 'Rog Pile' is correct - (the author is Roger Pile)--Billbunter 07:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

[First] Black Horror

Hi again Craig, Do you have a copy of the first one? If so, would you please check the exact author's name at the top of the story (not in the Table of Contents) for "Size Matters". Thanks ... clarkmci / --j_clark 23:34, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

in order:

correct cover Only the year of publication no other date 'Stow'd' is correct(not stowed) 'Julia' is correct 'Rog Pile' is correct - (the author is Roger Pile)--Billbunter 23:36, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes (I have the first one. Author is stated as John L. Probert ( I think he is also known as John Llewellyn Probert) --Billbunter 23:39, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I've fixed the 3 items from the 2nd Black. We'll have to do pseudonym links for Mr Pile & Mr Probert at some stage. (Not now, 'cos it's not clear to me yet what the main/usual/"canonical" form of their names are. Have a look at David A. Sutton / David Sutton as an example of how it looks when names are linked.) ... clarkmci / --j_clark 00:42, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I am fairly sure that Roger Pile goes out as an artist and writer as 'Rog'. I know him from internet discussions and I have always seen him in the small press attributing hismelf as Rog--Billbunter 15:33, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Fourth Black Book of Horror

I accepted your submission of this new pub, but made a few changes. If there is no price printed on the book, leave the price field blank and mention in the note field. I found the publisher's price on (and linked to a cover image from there also.) The date also came from Amazon. Thanks for the contribution. MHHutchins 18:26, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Tubb's Child of Earth

I made a couple of changes to your submission of this pub. I got the price, date of publication and a cover image from, and added the limitation of printing. Is that stated in the book and are copies numbered? I also created a separate record of Bently's introduction as a content of this record. Thanks. MHHutchins 18:34, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Holy XXXX!!! Another Dumarest book!!Kraang 01:47, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes. And maybe another to come. See my article in dark Visions 55# yeeha! Billbunter 20:53, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Image for School

I linked to the image on for this pub. It's better quality than the one you've uploaded to the wiki. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:31, 2 February 2010 (UTC) Thanks Billbunter 17:00, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Sixth black book of Horror

Hi, I was going to add the stories to this anthology but I don't quite see how. The format doesn't seem to let me create the usual page number, author and so? Perhaps I'm missing something? Billbunter 01:52, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Bill, I assume its this book "The Sixth Black Book of Horror"[1]. If so then click "Edit This Pub" in "Editing Tools". Scroll down to "Content" and click the "Add Title" button they can be done all at once. Then add the page number , title and author. Leave the date blank it will automatically set to the pubs date(if these are new stories). If new stories set the "Length" to "novella", "shortstory" or "novelette". If the stories have been published before then after there approved they can be merged. Hope this helps. Any questions just leave them here or the "Help page".Kraang 02:20, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I seem to get disorientated - possibly because the editor, Charles Black 'appears' as an author and the list of authors continues directly. I'm afraid I put one story out of order by mistake. The last one. Hope this is fixable. Billbunter 09:34, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Bill. It does not matter what order you enter them in -- the display goes by the page numbers (and, if no page numbers have been provided, alphabetical order by title). I compared with the Mortbury Press site, and it looks like they are in the same order to me. A couple of the content entries ended up ANTHOLOGY instead of SHORTFICTION and so were not appearing in the display. I fixed them up and also corrected a couple of typos. See what you think, and thanks for contributing. --MartyD 12:02, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Tiredness I think with the anthology mistake. Thanks for recovering it all,

Billbunter 22:18, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Dark Horizons 55

I attempted my first edit of a magazine - noticing that Dark Horizons is not yet included in any form. As its my first it may well be an absolute mess Billbunter 14:29, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

I notice that my edit now says 'canceled by submitter'. As far as I knew I didn't cancel this but spent quite a long time filling it all in. Is it now recoverable? Billbunter 21:56, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Dark Horizons 55 again

I have your recent submission for Dark Horizons 55> There are some issues to clear up.

  1. You list the binding as "Perfect-bound Paperback" Currently our primary supported values for books are "pb" (mass-market format paperback), "tp" (Trade format paperback), and "hc" (hard cover). See Help:Screen:EditPub# Pub Format (Binding) for details and less common cases. This should probably be either "pb" or "tp", possibly with a note added about the "perfect" binding.
  2. You give the cover image as But we don't link to sites without clear permission. See ISFDB:Image linking permissions Probably the best way is to download a copy of the image and upload it to the ISFDB server and link to it there, see Help:How to upload images to the ISFDB wiki.
  3. You specify 9 people in the artist field. As Help:Screen:EditPub#Artist says, this field is for the cover artist. (Probably the field label should make that clear.) Art withing a book or magazine is credited by adding INTERIORART content records, which allow the page numbers to be recorded if desired. See Help:Screen:EditPub#EntryType -- the section on INTERIORART -- for details. Of course if the cover is actually the joint work of 9 artists, it can be so recorded. But I suspect it isn't.

I've uploaded an image to the isfdb file base The title is: Image:Darkhorizons55.jpg

The cover artist is Arthur Wang - should have thought - the others I presume are interior illustrators by definition? Billbunter 06:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

FYI, the line between "magazine" and "anthology" is somewhat fuzzy, and which to use in a given case is often a judgment call. I have no problem with entering this as an anthology, but there have been some "paperback magazines" entered as type MAGAZINE.

My judgment call would be 'magazine' - it's effectively a periodical by a society using the advantage of modern printing ( which as an aside suggests that the system of categorisation is falling behind the ability of a smaller publications to use the quality of printing methods previously enjoyed by the larger publishers.)

Billbunter 06:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

In the ISFDB, "articles", "Afterwords", "Introductions", "Review columns", "editorials" and any other text that is not fiction inside a magazine or book is all recorded in the ESSAY type. NONFICTION is used for whole non-fiction books, such as biographies of authors, or critical studies. (Also pop-science that is reviewed in genre magazines.)

Essay would cover that I believe. Apologies for the mistakes. First time Billbunter 06:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I am holding the submission pending your response. -DES Talk 04:51, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I have approved and edited the submission, the result is here. Please correct or add info as needed and as you can. The page numbers for the various content items would be helpful. If the various interior art works were illustrating specific stories, it would be helpful to know which was which, as well as their page numbers.
But in any case we now have the contents recorded. Thank you. -DES Talk 07:43, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Works #7

I approved your submission of Works #7. I then edited the pub format to "digest", as per the Galactic Central listing. I created the wiki page Magazine:Works, and moved the ISSN there. (Since ISSNs don't identify specific issues, we don't list them in publication records.) The result is here. Please note the Bibliographic tasks remaining as listed on the Magazine:Works page. -DES Talk 05:52, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know how the verification system works but this work was categorised in locus here: [User:Billbunter|Billbunter]] 06:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Comparing with the locus listing linked above, I find a few minor differences:
  • Locus lists "Vertical Frontiers" and "Prisoners of Mars" as separate poems. The pub record lists "Vertical Frontiers/Prisoners of Mars". are these separate poems? -DES Talk

"Vertical Frontiers/Prisoners of Mars" is a single title at the right hand top of a single page, with the author written on the bottom left corner, written so

"Vertical Frontiers/

Prisoners of Mars"

which may have led the original cataloguer to assume two poems. Having just read it, it appears to be one poem with a continuous narrative. But you know poets. In short, single poem, on a single page and titled so in the contents Billbunter 03:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Fine, no problems. -DES Talk 13:24, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Locus lists "In the Best Possible Taste" by Veronica Colin on page 28. The pub record omits this. Is it there? is it fiction? -DES Talk

It's there and on pg 28, a single very short story Billbunter 03:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Fine, I will add it. -DES Talk 13:24, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Locus lists the poem on page 32 as "Wings" by Ray Jon. The pub record has "Wings · Ray Jon" by Ray Jon. Is the author's name part of the poem title? -DES Talk

'"Wings" by Ray Jon' is correct Billbunter 03:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I will make the correction. -DES Talk 13:24, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Locus lists the poem on page 48 as "Space/Time Continuum" by Dave Thomas. The pub record has "Space/Time Continuum · Dave Thomas" by Dave Thomas. is the author's name part of the poem title? -DES Talk

Again '"Space/Time Continuum" by Dave Thomas' is correct demonstrating conclusively that I am no good at cataloguing. Billbunter 03:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Nothing of the sort, all of us make errors, particularly when new to a task. -DES Talk 13:24, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

As a matter of interest, is this form of reply okay - as in replying within the questioners mail or is better to respond in a discrete entry [User:Billbunter|Billbunter]] 03:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Replying within the thread is fine. But it is good in such a case to sign your separate contributions, and if you add in the middle to copy the signature of the person who wrote it so that each section is signed. It is also usual to indicate reply level by indenting. A colon at the start of a paragraph indents that paragraph by one level, two colons by two levels, etc. See Help:Wiki Conventions, Help:Editing, and Help:Editing FAQ. ---DES Talk 13:24, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Please check if the record now seems correct and complete. If it is, please verify it. -DES Talk

Checking for Duplicates

The next step, when entering a collection or anthology or magazine, is to visit every author's ISFDB page, and see if the newly added stoiry might have also been indexed in a different publication -- that is, it might have been reprinted.

If duplicates are found, they must be merged. See Help: How to merge titles.

In the case of Works #7 I have done this. There was one duplicate: "Nexus" by Joy Oestreicher was later reprinted. I have merged the title records in this case. -DES Talk 14:00, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


For details on the verification system, see Help:How to verify data. In brief, there are two kinds of verification, Primary and Secondary.
  • Primary Verification is in effect a statement that: "I (the verifier) have checked the record against an actual physical copy of the publication. All recorded information is accurate, anf the information recorded is as complete as possible, or as complete as needed for the ISFDB's purposes." The Username of the verifier and the timestamp of verification are recorded. Verifiers (except for "transient primary") are expected to answer questions about the pub as needed, and no one else should add info without notifying the primary verifier, and no one should change or remove info without asking the verifier first. "Transient primary" is used when the verifier may not have future access to the publication -- e.g. it is borrowed, or a library book, or the verifier plans to sell it or give it away.
  • Secondary Verification is in effect a statement that "I have compared the publication record with the specified secondary source. Either the pub record agrees with the secondary source, or else a note has been made of any differences." Note that a pub record may include details not listed in a particular secondary source, and so those details are not verified. When particular details have been entered from a particular secondary source (such as Locus, or OCLC, or the Library of Congress, or Amazon) it is a good idea to note the source of the info, like "Page count from OCLC" or "Price from". Data with no notes should in theory be taken from an actual copy of the pub, but that isn't always so. See Reference:General Overview, Sources of Bibliographic Information, and Help:Using Worldcat data for more details. -DES Talk 21:58, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Bio:Johnny Mains‎ and Image:JMains.JPG‎

I added the template {{BioHeader}} to Bio:Johnny Mains‎. This template is designed to be placed at the top of every BIO page.

I added a link to the relevant wikipedia page to Johnny Mains‎. I copied relevant information from the wikipedia page to the author record (such as birth date and birth place). I copied a picture of Mains from wikipedia, cropped and tweaked it, uploaded it as Image:JMains.JPG‎, and linked it from the author page. Take a look at the results, so you could do this another time, if you wish. -DES Talk 21:39, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

looks good but not sure I could trust myself to do that yet Billbunter 03:25, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Not really very hard, but work at your own pace. Adding the info to the author page is just a matter of clicking "Edit Author Data" and filling in the fields, just as with editing publication data. -DES Talk 13:33, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

user page

Just seen your update that says "Science fiction, horror and fantasy author." Do we have you in the database proper under another name? I only remember Bill(y) Bunter from the Frank Richards books. BLongley 22:51, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

And "Seem to have developed a kind of cataloging desire in my fifties. Bit worried by the development" is not to be too worried about. I think most of our most prolific editors have suffered a similar desire, although it starts younger in some of us. BLongley 22:51, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I explain why I'm here at the top of the Usertalk page (under 'talk') and you replied - essentially to promote my own work (within appropriate constraints) but also it gets kind of habit forming. Billbunter 03:27, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

nine artists

just noticed the message regarding the contents (of the art) and their placing. Unfortunately individual artists are not tied in with the art so it would be impossible to list the art with the artists Billbunter 11:24, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Cornish Tales of Terror submission

You made a submission to update this pub. It adds a price of "00.50" which is not a standard price for any currency. If this is UK currency it should be entered as "£0.50". Also, you can't link to an image on They block all efforts to deep link. It is ISFDB policy that we be given permission to link to an image hosted on an outside server. The policy is stated here, along with a list of websites which have given us permission. You also have the option to upload an image from your hard drive to the ISFDB Wiki on our server using this guide. Or you can use the link on the record to "Upload Cover Scan". After uploading it, you must then link the image to the database record by entering the URL of the image on our server in a record update. If you have any questions, post them here. I'm going to reject the submission so that you can make a corrected one. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Not only did I commit these errors I failed to notice my edition was a fourth impression. In other words an abject failure all round. Must have been late at night. My apologies Billbunter 12:07, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Filthy Creations

The submission adding this publication was accepted, but several changes had to be made in order for it to fall within ISFDB standards. The most important one is that all links to cover images be to approved websites. (The list of approved websites are on the Help pages. Let me know if you can't find them.) I also added the issue number, which is very important to make sure it doesn't get confused with other issues of the magazine. I also removed the words "none" in the field. Just leave them blank. You should also give the source for your data in the Note Field. If you have the publication in hand you should do a Primary Verification. If you have any questions about these changes, please respond here. Thanks. Mhhutchins 14:54, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Got that. except I have the magazine here and haven't been able to work out Primary verifications. Billbunter 10:10, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Go to the pub record. Look under the Editing Tools menu for the link that states "Verify This Pub". Click on the link. On the next page, there is a list of 18 different verifications. If you have the publication in hand, change the bullet selection on the first row (marked "Primary") to the second selection (under "Verified"). Click the bottom button ("Submit Data"). By doing this you confirm that the information stated in the record you just verified is correct and that you're willing to answer any subsequent editor's questions about your copy of the publication. There is a list of "How to"s on this help page. Among these is a link to How to verify data. This page gives a more thorough explanation of the procedure I stepped you through above. Mhhutchins 05:13, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. I understood that. Billbunter 16:26, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
I just noticed that the interview was entered as an ESSAY type, so I'll change it to an INTERVIEW type. Thanks. Mhhutchins 16:33, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Filthy Creations #6

The submission adding this record was accepted, but there's a few changes necessary. You gave it a TAG of "Horror". The TAG is not the same as the "tag". (Strange, yes.) When creating a magazine record, the editor has the option of coming up with his own ID (TAG) for this particular issue of the magazine. You don't have that option when creating other types of pubs, the system does it automatically. The TAG is a unique identifier for a record within the database. A TAG if "Horror" is too general and could be identical to another record which will cause conflicts whenever a user searches by ID numbers (the number which follows cgi-bin/pl.cgi? in the URL of the record.) I would suggest changing it to FILTHYCREATIONS6, which would be unique.

Also, there are a couple of serials which don't give the number of parts within the title. So "Sendings (Part 1)" should be "Sendings (Part 1 of X)" depending upon how many parts it will be published in. If you don't know how many, keep it as "X" until the last part has been published. Do you have any further info on this issue of the magazine? What is the publisher's name? What is the page count? What is the binding? What is the price? What is the month (or season) of publication? Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:09, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I did a google and found this website. It gives the editor solely to be Rog Pile, it's dated "Summer 2010" and the price as £2.25. Are these stated in the magazine itself? Mhhutchins 18:14, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
I have changed the TAGs of both this issue and issue #2 as I proposed above. Mhhutchins 18:17, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
I've added a cover image, snatched from the publisher's website. Mhhutchins 18:20, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Several of the stories don't have standard capitalization of their titles. Is this how they appear in the magazine? Mhhutchins 18:21, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm going to normalize the credits for D. F. Lewis, although his name occasionally appears with periods. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:22, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

There have been no further issues of the magazine so 'parts' is up in the air I think

Page count is 84

It's paperbound A2

Price is not indicated on the magazine

Season is Summer

The titles are standard - must have been a mistake by me

Published by Rog Pile - no publishing house unless its 'The Workshop of Filthy Creation'

Carol King is down as Consultative editor

Is a publishers website legitimate for taking an image?

apologies for the slipshod effort Billbunter 20:07, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

No apologies necessary. There's a learning process involved here and we're more than willing to guide you through it. About "taking an image": we can't link to it, but it is legal to copy it to your hard drive, then upload it to the ISFDB server. Under most circumstances, the display of book covers is considered "fair use", but we cover our butts by restricting the size of the image so that it can't be used for any illegitimate purposes (such as bootlegging a copy of the book with the same artwork.) We also add a license to each image uploaded to our server (we expect the same of other websites to which we have permission to link.) Check out this example to see Fair Use and Rationale attached to this image.
I'll update the record for Filthy Creations #6 from the info you've provided here. Thanks. Mhhutchins 21:06, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Filthy Creations #3 and more Filthy Creations

I approved your addition of Filthy Creations #3 and also set up Publisher:Filthy Creations Press. While setting up that page I was able to figure out the approximate release date and price for FC 3 and so updated the publication record.

It's not clear if this is a "magazine" or "fanzine". I suspect it's a fanzine though they call themselves a magazine.

Magazine:Filthy Creation or Fanzine:Filthy Creation. See Magazines and Fanzines as a starting place so you can see how the pages for the other 'zines are organized. --Marc Kupper|talk 23:51, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


yes its a magazine (fanzine) formed from the subboard of a a popular proboard, vault of evil. Oner of the may borderline things since pDF and so

Billbunter 10:11, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

The Heaven Maker & Other Gruesome Tales

Are you certain that both authors are credited on the collection's title page? That would seem strange (but not altogether impossible) if there's only one collaboration in all the stories. Also, you'll need to give the source for your data in the note field. If you're working from an actual copy of the book, you'll need to enter the page numbers of the stories. There's a few other changes that will also have to be made so that the record conforms to ISFDB standards, but we'll get to those once the question of author credit has been answered. Thanks. Mhhutchins 19:20, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

The main author is me, Craig Herbertson. there is one collaboration with S. Herbertson. I can't access the original so I assume I mistakenly put S. Herbertson in the first titles. I haven't yet got access to the book hence no page numbers. Billbunter 23:39, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
If I accept the submission as you entered it, the record will look like a collaborative collection authored by you and S. Herbertson. Looking at the cover art here, it appears that only you get cover credit. Individual contents can still be credited as published. So if I'll accept it as is, and let you decide how the record should be displayed. Thanks. Mhhutchins 00:14, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
I've corrected the price to £20.00 and disambiguated the generic content titles (foreword, afterword, introduction). Mhhutchins 00:20, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
I changed the date to 2012-11-15 based on the BFS notice. Also, I see that the cover art gives the ampersand in the title and not "and". Do you know how it will be title on the book's title page? Mhhutchins 00:23, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
I've also changed the title to conform to ISFDB standards of capitalization (capitalized "Other). Mhhutchins 00:26, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks: probably should be displayed as by Craig Herbertson as their is only one collaboration. The ampersand is correct - sorry about that. I'll try and upload a cover scan and get page numbers in the next two weeks Billbunter 11:56, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
I've replaced "and" with "&" and credited only "Craig Herbertson" in the title record and pub record. Please update with additional information when you get a chance. And congratulations on the publication of your first story collection! Mhhutchins 18:10, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the changes and especially for the congratulations - it was a long hard slog with the usual dismal failures. Feels pretty good. Billbunter 19:05, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely unsure how to do this but Parallel Universe is the same publishing house for the magazine Beyond he: http://www.isfdb.orgcgi-bin/title.cgi?1319705

Billbunter 19:17, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The Heaven Maker and Other Gruesome Tales

I changed "&" to "and" in the title, based on your note to the moderator. You could document the discrepancy between the title page title and the dust jacket title in the publication notes if you wanted to.

More importantly, your attempt to add a cover image didn't work, and I had to revert your change. There were two problems:

  1. The URL you gave had extra text around it, rendering it unintelligible to our software. You need to provide just a plain URL:
    should instead be
  2. We do not have permission to link to Photobucket (see ISFDB:Image_linking_permissions), so even if the link had been right, I would have had to remove it. What you should do is upload the Photobucket image to our Wiki and link to that. See Help:How_to_upload_images_to_the_ISFDB_wiki for instructions.

Thanks, --MartyD 13:07, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll see if I can work through the picture page. I have a final problem S. Herbertson is not credited as a collaborator on Not Waving - only mentioned as 'my brother' in the afterthoughts (I have two)This occurred because he was credited on chapter headings but we didn't spot that a collection would not have the name of the author for each tory. Billbunter 16:14, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

I can correct that using ISFDB standards. Mhhutchins 16:41, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Another thing: I have deleted the image file for this book's cover which you uploaded to the ISFDB server. It is too large, has the wrong file name, and doesn't have a license tag. All of this would have been fixed if you'd used the "Upload cover scan" link which is part of the publication record. I will do that, and then link the file to the record. Mhhutchins 16:41, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm incompetent with pictures, scanning and so. (I did read through the wiki page) Thanks for correcting that,

Billbunter 11:06, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Egil's Saga

Hello, due to ISFDB standards I had to change the author from E R Eddison to E. R. Eddison (in order to avoid having two different authors of the same work, since we standardize an initial X to X.) and merged the two titles for Egil's Saga. But many thanks for adding this (first?) edition, Stonecreek 08:46, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Cheers. yes, this is the first

Improper image upload

I had to delete the cover image file you uploaded for The Death Tableau because it was improperly uploaded directly to the ISFDB wiki. Because you didn't use the link on the database's publication record, the file doesn't contain the required license tag, the link back to the pub record from the wiki, the categorization on the artist's wiki page, and other things that would happen automatically when you use the proper link to upload a cover image. Please go to the publication record, and upload the image from the provided link. Thanks. Mhhutchins 18:47, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

I tried again. Still not exactly sure if it's ok. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Billbunter (talkcontribs) .
It worked. The next step is to link the image to the record. As the instructions (step 6) explain:
Once the file has been uploaded, the image's wiki page will appear. In order to get the URL (address) for the image you just uploaded, left click anywhere on the image and copy the URL from your browser's address window. (Or right click on the image and choose "Copy Image Location".) If you're adding a cover image to a pub record, this is the URL which you would enter into the pub record's "Image URL" field.
So once you have the image's URL, go back to the pub record (it's linked on the image's wiki page) and then click the "Edit This Pub" link under the Editing Tools menu. This opens up an edit page. Under the Publication Metadata section, there's a field labeled "Image URL:" Enter the URL of the image you uploaded into this field, and then click on the "Submit Data" button at the bottom of the page. Once the submission has been moderated the cover image will be linked to the publication record. Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 20:55, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Terror Tales of the Scottish Highlands

This publication record was accepted but several changes had to be made for it to comply with ISFDB standards. Only the number should be given in the ISBN field. It's not necessary to give "ISBN-13" as part of the field. The binding was changed from "pb" to "tp" (at 20 cm tall it's a trade paperback). A space was added after all of the initials in "D. P. Watt". Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 18:53, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. wasn't sure about the trade paperback. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Billbunter (talkcontribs) .
A field-by-field guide to entering and updating publication records can be found here. Mhhutchins 20:57, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Appreciated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Billbunter (talkcontribs) .
Please end any messages you post with four tildes (~~~~). which automatically signs and dates them. Also use standard wiki markup for followup responses by adding a colon (:) to the number of them in the previous response. This makes it easier to read the discussion. (The first response gets one colon, the second response gets two, etc.) To get an idea of how this is done, click on the "[edit]" link to the right and see how the raw data looks. Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 15:04, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
sorry, forgot that Billbunter 18:36, 1 August 2015 (UTC))

Kitchen Sink Gothic

Submission adding this publication was accepted, but several fields had to be corrected based on ISFDB standards. You'll find those standards in help pages which are linked in the Welcome section above.

  • ISBN field should contain only the ISBN. Do not add the words "ISBN-10". I have changed the field to match the ISBN-13 since all publications after January 2007 must have an ISBN-13..
  • You failed to give the publication format, but I assume it is "tp" based on the Amazon listing (a paperback taller than 7 inches or 18 centimeters).
  • Price and publication date was taken from the Amazon listing and sourced in the Note field.
  • The title of the introduction was disambiguated to prevent accidental merging with identically titled works.
  • The credit for "Our Writers & Artist" was changed to "Anonymous" to "uncredited" as there appears to be no credit for the author of the piece. (And the name was changed from "Our Writers and Artists" to "Our Writers & Artist" as that is how it is titled based on the Amazon Look Inside.

I have also linked the record to the cover image on Amazon. Thanks for contributing. Mhhutchins 04:14, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I wasn't sure about pricing. Many books have no price on them (as in this case. Doesn't that mean prices would be very open to interpretation every time the publisher changes the price?Billbunter 12:03, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
If there is a reliable source for the publisher's list price, even if the price is not stated in the publication, then it can be used in the long as the source is given in the Note field. Which is what I did for both the price and the publication date, neither of which, I assume, is stated in the publication. Any changes in the price can also be noted, while providing the list price at the time of the work's original publication. Mhhutchins 16:16, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
I misspelled 'Parrallel Universe Publications' and then corrected it but the misspelling seems to have gone through. it should read 'Parallel' Universe PublicationsBillbunter 15:28, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
You should have waited until the first submission was accepted to make the correction. (You can still do that.) I had to reject the second submission because if I'd accepted it there would have been a couple dozen duplicate titles in the database. Mhhutchins 16:16, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
thanks for the help Billbunter 12:04, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

I have changed the publisher to Parallel Universe Publications (from the version with two r) for this: I think it was a typo. I also filled the British price in, as it is a UK based publisher. Thanks, Stonecreek 14:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC) thanksBillbunter 21:11, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Swords & Sorceries: Tales of Heroic Fantasy: Volume 3

I accepted Swords & Sorceries: Tales of Heroic Fantasy: Volume 3, but had to make a couple of changes to match ISFDB standards:

  • Title: Looking at Amazon Look Inside, the "Tales of Heroic Fantasy" and "Volume 3" are smaller case on the title page. As such, we indicate they are subtitles by separating with colons.
  • Editor: I added a period after the middle initial.
  • Format: I changed the format from "paperback" to "trade paperback". The ISFDB uses a specific set of values. I used "tp" (for trade paperback) based on the dimensions supplied by Amazon.
  • Introduction: For common titles like Introduction, Preface, and Foreword, we add the pub title in parenthesis.
  • Interior Art: We add interior art as a content record. There are two options: 1) a single record to cover all art in the pub; or 2) separate records for each piece of art (either titled with the artwork title or with the story name they illustrate if untitled). I went with #1, but you have the option to change to #2.

Thank you for adding these. Please upload the cover image if you can. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:46, 28 November 2021 (EST)

Thanks for that. I see someone got the cover uploaded