User talk:Bernarrd

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Welcome!

Hello, Bernarrd, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:04, 27 May 2023 (EDT)

The Forgotten Door

Hi, and welcome. I have a question about this submission. I suspect it duplicates this record, although that record may simply be for a later edition. Does your copy have any sort of 9-digit or 10-digit number on it anywhere? Thanks, and thank you for contributing. --MartyD (talk) 08:49, 11 June 2023 (EDT)

Hi MartyD, No my copy does not have a 10 digit number on it. As is mentioned in the note for the other entry, The early editions did not have an ISBN number on them. The 10 digit ISBN did not come into use until about 1970. And I doubt that all publishers used them even at that time. The book does have a Libarary of Congress Catalog Card No. 65-10170. This edition is earlier than that edition shown, and may be a First Edition. I have collected Alexander Key's books for around 30 years and I have seen a lot of them. The problem with Westminster Press is that they did not bother to mark their First Editions, or their early reprints, in any way for many years. To determine if your book is in truth a First Edition is a little bit of a guessing game. You have to be a bit of a detective and look for clues. The ads inside the book and especially on the dust jacket are helpful in determining when the book was published. You will also notice that the dust jacket image I posted is a little different from the one on the current entry. The current image is from a later copy. I have in my collection a 13th and a 14th printing of the book and they are both in a similar jacket to the one currently listed on the site. I also have a copy from around 1967 which is more like the copy I listed, and has a similar jacket except for the ads on the jacket and the price. The ca. 1967 jacket has a price of $4.25, and ads for "Tunnel Through Time" (1966) and "The Runaway Robot" (1965) by Lester del Rey and "Secret of the Marauder Satellite" (1967) by Ted White. I have collected books for over forty years, mainly Fantasy titles and Childrens books. I have found that many publishers did not go to much trouble in marking the editions of their children's books, even when they clearly marked their adult titles. I guess they either thought they were not important, or not collectible. This makes the collecting of Children's books much more of a challange. I also noticed that I have an unbalanced double quote in my note field in front of "Rivets" and also "this publisher did not marked First Edition" should read "this publisher did not mark First Editions" in the note field. I have "The Westminster Press" in the publisher field and apparently the site uses just "Westminster Press". And finally I have given a date of 1965-02-04 which is the date that the copyright was registered. This came from the Catalog of Copyright entries. I find that many publishers register the copyright on or near the expected release date. At one time I had access to Publishers Weekly and used it for release dates, but I no longer have access. Bernarrd (talk) 12:38, 11 June 2023 (EDT)

Ok, thanks. I accepted it and tweaked the other entry a little. One thing I changed: It looks like we have settled on "Westminster Press" as that publisher's name, so I removed "The". Here it is. --MartyD (talk) 15:54, 11 June 2023 (EDT)

linking you uploaded covers

I rejected this submission attempting to link your uploaded cover. You were linking the wiki page rather than the actual image. Right click the image on the wiki page and select 'copy image link', that's the URL you enter in the publication record. I fixed this one for you. John Scifibones

I guess that is why I am getting broken images when I post an edit. I have 4 or 5 pending edits that have the same problem. I guess there is no way for me to edit my pending edits? Bernarrd (talk) 14:38, 15 June 2023 (EDT)
Unfortunately not. I can't edit them either. Let them be approved as they are, then correct the links when you review them. John Scifibones 14:47, 15 June 2023 (EDT)

Author credit for A Magic of Pink Fingers

I'm holding your edit to add A Magic of Pink Fingers. I'm concerned about the author credit you are adding. I see that Worldcat has the author as "J. H.". Does the title page actually list "(Louis T. Williams)" as a separate author including the parenthesis, or is it listed as "J. H. (Louis T. Williams)" suggesting that Williams is using J. H. as a pseudonym? If the latter, then we should only list the author as "J. H." following the rules in this template (see alternate names). If "(Louis T. Williams)" does not appear on the title page of the novel, then we also should not add it. In either of those cases, we would simply add Louis T. Williams as the legal name of the newly created J. H. record. Please let me know how the title page credits the author and we can determine how to proceed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:56, 26 June 2023 (EDT)

The title page only credits J. H. I found "L. T. Williams" and "Louis T. Williams" from online sources, or actually digiatal copies of old printed sources. These sources can be found through Google. The name Louis T. Williams comes up in "The Bookseller, Newsdealer and Stationer, Volume 10". I put the name in parentheses because it was not mentioned on the title page, as you would list a date not found on the title page. I was discussing the book with Douglas Anderson by email and he sent me a link to this item, which I had not seen yet. I read the book, although it is not an easy read, and it does have fantasy elements in the story. Like several Neely titles, it is not well written, and I would call it crank literature as much as anything else. I have been searching F. Tennyson Neely titles for severals years looking for unknown Fantasy titles. I occassionally discuss the topic with Doug Anderson because he also has an interest in Neely Fantasy titles. I bought this book severals years back from William Matthews and he listed it as Fantasy.
https://books.google.com/books?id=pNhTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA621&lpg=PA621&dq=%22A+Magic+of+Pink+Fingers%22&source=bl&ots=2C51ERwE8A&sig=ACfU3U26wNt1xt27KAh9w6PcvcRIOJtKdQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhr8GEqOL_AhWII0QIHcvsAQ0Q6AF6BAgMEAM#v=onepage&q=%22A%20Magic%20of%20Pink%20Fingers%22&f=false
Bernarrd (talk) 22:07, 26 June 2023 (EDT)
I'll go ahead and approve your edit. However, I'll need to remove Williams as an author. In the publication and title records, we don't list authors that do not appear on the title page. We also don't use parenthesis to indicate data that isn't in the book. That being said, it's good that you determined the actual author that uses the J. H. pseudonym. If Williams had other books included here, published as by either "L. T. Williams" or "Louis T. Williams", and assuming that that name was how he published most of his genre works, we would make your new title into a variant of a new title under the canonical name. We would also connect the two author records. However, since the only work we currently have by this author is published under the J. H. name, we don't need to create another title or author record. Instead, we update the legal name in the J. H. author record. I'll go ahead and update the new record. Hope this helps explain things. Let me know if you have any questions about this. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:02, 28 June 2023 (EDT)

Babar Visits Another Planet

https://archive.org/search?query=babar-visits; I count 26 pages, not 29, but it's possible your copy is different. --Username (talk) 11:41, 29 June 2023 (EDT)

I approved your creation of this CHAPBOOK. Remember, CHAPBOOKS are merely containers. You either create the content title or import it. I took care of this one for you. I also edited the tag so it linked to the publication (this is the change ). Whenever you upload a cover before the publication is created, you need to double check the link. You can avoid this step by waiting to upload the cover until after the publication is created. Ask if you have any questions. John Scifibones 11:50, 29 June 2023 (EDT)

Goddess of Africa

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/view_submission.cgi?5720945; I made an edit using what seems the only copy of this book on Archive.org; it will probably be quite a while before it's approved because I have nearly a thousand other edits waiting but I thought I'd let you know because you did mention Hobart in the notes for another edition of this book. --Username (talk) 12:20, 20 July 2023 (EDT)

I did mention Hobart in my listing for the Neely published copy. It is the only common issue around, but it is a later issue. I have seen quite a few Hobart printings over the years, but very few Steet & Smith, and only one True Neely copy. I do not own a Hobart published copy of the book, so I did not say much about it. Bleiler78 mentions the Street & Smith issue and Clute/Nichols mentions the Neely issue. None of the references this site quotes even mention the Hobart issue. But then it is not unusual for references to not mention more than one issue of a book, Ususally they try to mention what they concider the First issue. Bleiler78 mentions somewhere that they try to mention what ever issue came first. So you will see the U.K or the American, but not both normally. That does not mean the other issue are not relevant, it just means that they did not come first. Bernarrd (talk) 13:14, 20 July 2023 (EDT)

The Dreamland Express

Thanks for adding The Dreamland Express. CHAPBOOK publication type is merely a container. You always need to add the fiction title. Add it when you create the publication or import an existing title after the publication is approved. It helps if you let the reviewer know your intentions in the note to moderator. Since this title did not exist, I added it for you via publication update. Please submit an edit adding the length to the fiction title. I'm guessing it's less than 7,500 words, thus a short story. John Scifibones 10:41, 22 July 2023 (EDT)

I would guess the book is a bit over 7500 words, but probably not more than 10000 words. The book is about 56 pages long and I counted 256 words on one of the fuller pages. But some pages have partial illustration, so not as many words. Bernarrd (talk) 10:58, 22 July 2023 (EDT)
Then make it a novelette and I'll approve. Also, notice how I indented your respose by adding a colon, then adding two to my response. This is our method to make threads easier to follow. John Scifibones 11:03, 22 July 2023 (EDT)
I changed this. Bernarrd (talk) 11:28, 22 July 2023 (EDT)

Thirteen Ghost Stories

I approved the addition of Thirteen Ghost Stories: A Collection of Supernatural Tales in the Style of M.R. James. Why did you choose to list the stories in the publication notes rather than the contents section where they belong? Is there a cover art credit? John Scifibones 10:51, 22 July 2023 (EDT)

Copy on Dalby's site, https://richarddalbyslibrary.com/products/alexander-kinghorn-thirteen-ghost-stories-woodfield-2004-paperbacks, but as so often photo of contents is crap, you'll need to enter info from your copy. I entered an edit with birth place and birth/death dates for the author using a 2013 article on the Lesser-Known Writers site. --Username (talk) 11:10, 22 July 2023 (EDT)
I changed the contents, The only credit for the cover is mentioned in the notes. Bernarrd (talk) 11:27, 22 July 2023 (EDT)
Thanks, the submission is approved. Story lengths, when known, are always appreciated. John Scifibones 11:38, 22 July 2023 (EDT)

Elf Island

[1]; Click on that link and you'll see a single cover for Elf Island on Italian PicClick, clicking the cover image takes you to a page for another book by the author, Garden of Cymodoce, so sale of Elf Island is obviously over but image remains online, in case you want to upload it (not sure it's the same because you wrote a note about printings with different colors). Also, Google Books URL you provided in 1885 edition's notes is so long it runs off the side past the border; you can erase everything from "?printsec" onwards. https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi?arg=elf+island&type=All+Titles. --Username (talk) 10:31, 28 July 2023 (EDT)

I have fixed the URL and I added an image of the correct front cover. The red cloth cover is just a differnt issue of the later binding. Bernarrd (talk) 12:14, 28 July 2023 (EDT)

Beyond the Great South Wall: The Secret of the Antarctic

I approved this submission to your verified publication. However, I reverted the page count to 322. From the applicable help section

... you may record the count of unnumbered pages at the end of a publication. For example, 320+[4]. As before, only do this if there is additional content in these pages that requires the creation of a content record, as when there is an afterword or book excerpt which appears on unnumbered pages. John Scifibones 15:05, 3 August 2023 (EDT)

Half Magic Weekly Reader edition

Hi. I accepted your submission for the Weekly Reader edition of Half Magic, but I removed these two lines from the pub notes that were carried over from the record you cloned:

publ date 1954-06-15 per Kirkus review published same day
price from New York Times review 1954-04-18

The first one was in direct conflict with the 1955-00-00 date you assigned, and the date in the second one also had that problem, plus your other notes seem to be saying the price is on the rear flap, so that NYT review does not appear to be relevant to this edition at all. If you think either should be restored, let me know and I will put them back. Also feel free to incorporate that information in some revised way if you.

If you feel motivated, I think now with the record for this edition in place, you could remove some of the Weekly Reader edition information from this edition's notes. You could just note that a publication similar in most details but with mention of 1955 on the copyright page and Weekly Reader references on the rear flap is a different Weekly Reader edition published in 1955. --MartyD (talk) 08:01, 13 August 2023 (EDT)

Well I can definitely see the point about the first line you removed, the second is less clear. The price is the same as the 1st issue jacket, but the book was issued later. The price is on the front flap (not the back) and the front flaps of both books are the same. The problem with this book is that many booksellers, even some that should know better, list the book club issue as a First Edition. And that is the main reason I wanted it listed, to help correct the record. As I mentioned in at least one of the listings, the book club used basicaaly the same printing plates (or a copy of them) with Weekly Reader statements added.
I will look at the First Edition listing again.
I updated the First Edition listing and removed some of the Book Club Info.

Bernarrd (talk) 14:41, 13 August 2023 (EDT)

I think that looks good, but do feel free to adjust further. It is certainly fine to have various records refer to one another, and highlighting likely identification mistakes and/or key differences is very helpful. --MartyD (talk) 07:02, 16 August 2023 (EDT)

Image License Templates

When using the "Upload new cover scan" link from a publication listing, the software will automatically fill in the image license template. It will be in the "Summary" box on the upload page above the "Licensing" pull down. In these cases, you should not also select a license from the "Licensing" pull down. Doing so adds a second, empty license to the image page that needs to be cleaned up. The "Licensing" pull down is used when manually uploading an image to the wiki. Please let me know if you have any questions. And thanks for your contributions! -- JLaTondre (talk) 13:04, 4 September 2023 (EDT)

Mrs. Coverlet's Magicians

Bernarrd, I recently approved the submission adding the Weekly Reader Children's Book Club edition. After looking at the archive.org scan, I don't believe this is a novel I think we should make it a novella. As the permanent verifier of the first edition, I'd like your opinion. Thanks, John Scifibones 16:17, 14 September 2023 (EDT)

The book is 189 pages with some illustration. I would think this would qualify as a novel myself. It is of course for children, but I think this was intended to be a juvenile novel. This is about the same as most of the Weekly Reader Book Club titles. If you compare it to an adult title it might be a little thin. Bernarrd (talk) 18:50, 14 September 2023 (EDT)
I was just looking through a 1st edition copy I recently bought. It has a label on the inside of the front cover that says "Sample", so this was a copy from the publishers library. It also mentions "Word Count" and has "65" written in. I am not sure if this is supposed to mean 65,000 words, or what? It also has a few papers where is was checked out for reprint consideration in July of 1986. Bernarrd (talk) 21:42, 14 September 2023 (EDT)
You have verified this publication so I assume you have it on hand. Perhaps you didn't know how to estimate the length. Here is my analysis.
  • 199 words per full page (average from an actual count 6 randomly selected pages)
Rough estimate - 185 x 199 = 36,815. (Story starts on page 4)
Detailed estimate:
100(actual count page 4 + page 189)
020 full page illustrations
2,730first pages of 21 remaining chapters x 130 words (average of 4 chosen randomly)
130actual count of the 3 pages with partial illustrations
27,661remaining 139 pages x 199 words.
----------
30,621 Note: This is still overstated. This estimate credits the last page of chapters 1 - 21 as full pages, they are not.
=======
There is no question, this is a novella. Do you agree? John Scifibones 09:12, 15 September 2023 (EDT)
I never gave this much consideration. If you go by length alone, probably most children's titles would be considered Novellas. From the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew, to Charlotte's Web and Pippi Longstocking. But I do not think that is what the author's intended. They were just writing a book for children. And at the time that is what publisher's considered the proper length for a children's book. Yes, I do own a copy of Mrs. Coverlet's Magician's, I actually own three copies. Two First Editions and a Weekly Reader edition. I have a fairly large collection of Fantasy titles and Children's books mainly, with some Mystery and a few other odds and ends. Bernarrd (talk) 17:25, 15 September 2023 (EDT)
We use specific word counts for classifying prose fiction.
  • short story - A work whose length is less than or equal to 7,500 words.
  • novelette - A work whose length is greater than 7,500 words and less than or equal to 17,500 words.
  • novella - A work whose length is greater than 17,500 words and less than or equal to 40,000 words.
  • novel - A work whose length is greater than 40,000 words.
Since my estimate (30,621) falls in the novella range, I am making the change. I had hoped to get you agreement. I also illustrated a logical method for estimating word counts hoping it will be of some value. Should you wish to appeal my decision, start a thread on the moderator noticeboard. I look forward to working with you again. John Scifibones 19:55, 15 September 2023 (EDT)
https://www.arbookfind.com/bookdetailprint.aspx?q=82777&l=EN&2k=; Volo edition which has same page count as other editions has a 28,568 count (real count probably a bit less since booksellers usually count text in the book that wouldn't be counted if an editor here was doing the counting) at that odd site I linked which I found by typing "word count" and this book's title on Google. So it almost certainly is a novella. Weekly Reader edition has huge bottom margins on each page, huge chapter headers, and illustrations that take up most of the pages they're on. My M.O. with books printed like this is page count would be about half of what the book's last number says if it was printed with no margins, so in this case 90-something. Also, Garrett Price has 3 covers and 4 interiors here but he most likely should have the cover for Francis Goes To Washington since the art style is the same as his other covers. --Username (talk) 17:47, 15 September 2023 (EDT)
Well I agree that this book meets the number of words the site has set as a novella, I just have to wonder about the decision made to set such a limit. I have collected books for over 40 years and I sold books for over 20 years, and I do not think I have run across anyone who would call your average Juvenile novel a novella. I guess It is not really all that important, but it does seem a bit silly. Bernarrd (talk) 23:25, 15 September 2023 (EDT)

Fallen Race

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?299655; You uploaded cover image; signature on lower right is much too small and blurry to make out but this page, https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:50ktCH69qM0J:https://oztypewriter.blogspot.com/2011/07/on-this-day-in-typewriter-history-xlix.html&cd=13&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us, shows one of the interior illustrations, 1_aea5e1239385a403dc746c225a99c215.jpg, and it looks to be in the same style as the cover so it's very likely that Edward Mason did the cover, too. --Username (talk) 11:44, 18 September 2023 (EDT)

I would agree with that. Although publishers will sometimes hire a different artist to do a cover. I would doubt that Neely would have done so, especially considering the work appears to be in the same style. I added the cover artist to a new listing. Bernarrd (talk) 15:08, 18 September 2023 (EDT)

Word of Teregor

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?431551; I moved HathiTrust link from title record to book record and made publisher James Nisbet and Co. as it says on title page (actually it says "& Co." but someone decided "and Co." was the standard name for all books published by them). --Username (talk) 20:15, 19 May 2024 (EDT)