User talk:Aardvark7

Welcome!

Hello, Aardvark7, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• Help pages
• Field-by-field guide to entering new publications into the database
• Help:Getting Started
• What the ISFDB Wiki is for
• FAQ
• Wiki editing help - Tips on how to use the wiki-specific features when editing wiki pages.
• Wiki Conventions - How things are usually done on this wiki.
• Help:How to upload images to the ISFDB wiki

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:37, 25 November 2017 (EST)

Adding a book: How to

So let's start with your request for "City of Thieves". In this case, we already have a few copies of that book here so we will do ClonePub or AddPub. As there is no copy from the same publisher, let's do an AddPub (ClonePub also works but will require more attention not to submit something wrongly so... AddPub is cleaner. Here are the steps:

• Locate the title record - the link I posted above.
• Look on the left menu and locate the "Add Publication to This Title" link. Click on it, it will open this. This is how you add a new book to an existing container record (stories, serials and poems and art records are non-containers, everything else is).
• Follow the fields and add the date (1984-00-00 is the best you can do unless you can find the month in a source), publisher (we use "Dell" and not "Dell Books" for Dell), format (OCLC says 18 cm and we know it is paperback so it is a mass market paperback which means you want to chose "pb", price (with the $ sign at the start), number of pages (from OCLC), the Catalog ID (91374) in the Catalog ID field and/or 0440913748 as a derived ISBN (look at the Dell 1984 records to see how we usually enter these books) and a note of sources ("Data from OCLC and whatever other sources you had... as of 2020-10-09") and leave "Other website, later printing/edition or another source (please explain in Publication Note)" checked in the sources radio boxes. This explains each field in details.
• Where it says external IDs, locate OCLC/Worldcat and add the number from above 10947602 (as we found it anyway, may as well add it). Not mandatory :)
• Scroll a bit (on a smaller screen) or look lower on the screen and find the "Cover Art" section. Where it says Artist1, type Richard Corben.
• Now press "Submit Data" at the bottom and wait for a moderator to get to it.

Once approved, we can add the actual scan of the cover or a link to it (you cannot use the link you posted because we do not have permissions - we can either find the same in Amazon or upload the one we have here) and do some verifications (as you will be adding OCLC, you can do the secondary verification with it). But let's do that step by step.

Let me know if you have any questions and let's try adding this book. I will be around the next few hours so I can approve and work with you as soon as you submit it - if not, someone else will catch it when they can. :) Annie 18:30, 9 October 2020 (EDT)

OK what am I doing wrong? I am logged in. I go to the page for City of Thieves. I select Add Pub. It comes back and says that I am not logged in. I have tried this 3 times with the same results aardvark7 22:16, 9 October 2020 (EDT)

ISFDB is actually 2 separate applications behind the scenes - the wiki and the DB - using the same credentials. Go to the login page of the DB and login into the proper DB with the same credentials you used to login into the wiki. Then you will be able to edit the DB. Annie 22:22, 9 October 2020 (EDT)

OK I got in but the OCLC says "error" and to try later. Filling in what I can. aardvark7 22:35, 9 October 2020 (EDT)

That's ok - it is not mandatory and if you still cannot get there, I will add it later (seems to work for me but the site can be a bit overloaded at that time). Annie 22:37, 9 October 2020 (EDT)

Data is sent off aardvark7 22:51, 9 October 2020 (EDT)

Approved here with a few small changes, including adding a link to Amazon for a cover. We can replace it with a local one if you want to upload one. A question - where does the cover credit for Richard Corben coming from? OCLC has Iain McCaig as the illustrator (which usually means the cover as well but it is different sometimes) but that may be a mistake (as he is the Puffin artist... Annie 23:10, 9 October 2020 (EDT)

Never mind - the credit was in your original notes - I will add it. Annie 23:11, 9 October 2020 (EDT)

You can also see Corben's name in the lower right in both the original art and the book cover aardvark7 09:24, 10 October 2020 (EDT)

I have always hated the Amazon links. In my Pinterest boards, I combine the artwork with the book. I use screen shots and always name my sources. The Amazon link never goes to the book. I always have to go hunt for it and many time can never find it. eBay has been a good source of covers. I have a screen shot of the title but not sure how to upload it. Also is there a way I can go back in to see what you did? Never mind I found it (edit this pub) aardvark7 10:56, 10 October 2020 (EDT)

Also finally got into OCLC to take a look. How difficult are magazines? Since the Fear book still needs to be added? aardvark7 18:19, 11 October 2020 (EDT)

You can add your image if you want to - just follow the instructions in the welcome message above. The Amazon /I/ images are stable - so they are usable. But a local one will not harm. I will post the steps for magazines later today so you know how to add for next time as well. :) Annie 18:28, 11 October 2020 (EDT)

Needful Things

Hello. I had to reject your submission, as a record for the 1992 printing of Needful Things already exists, so that one should have been updated instead of creating a duplicate. In addition, there were a number of other issues with your submisisons:

• ISBN needed to be in IBSN-10 format. As a recommendation, if you notice a yellow warning when you submit an edit, go back (using your browser's back button), correct the error and submit again. Then you can go to your 'My Pending Edits', and cancel the erroneous submission.
• The 10-digit ISBN (045057458X) is not the catalog ID. It should not have been entered there.
• Publisher should have been the standard 'New English Library'. You may want to double-check that it is indeed 'New English Library', Goodreads only has Hodder & Stoughton. Note that the use of imprint / publisher format (as in 'New English Library / Hodder and Stoughton') is permitted. However, for well-known imprints the shorter form of only the imprint name is used - which is the case here.
• The Goodreads ID = 107291 should be entered in its own designated External ID field. The GoodreadsID are the numbers in the URL. The notes should read 'Data from Goodreads as of yyyy-mm-dd' or something similar.
• The data source for the cover art credit (Comicartfans.com) should be added to the notes.
• Finally, when editing an existing record, you can also upload the cover if it's missing (let me know if you need an explanation how to do so).

Will you give it another try? I hope this is clear. If not, do not hesitate to ask further clarification here or over at the Help Desk. Regards, MagicUnk 08:54, 21 October 2020 (EDT)

OK I found the link you talked about. I should have gone to the edit screen for THAT book, correct? At least that is what vI have just done. There in the pub notes I added the cover artist credit art link to comicartfans. Its not the proper html code as I need a bit (lot) more practice there. I added Chris Moore as the artist (comicartfans). External ID is Goodreads using 107291 (number in html link). Goodreads shows the original pub date as Oct 1991. It is listed as 1991-00-00. Is the correct format 1991-10-00 or 1991-00-10? I have a picture of the cover but I do need to know how that is done. Sorry for all of the mistakes, I am quite new to this. aardvark7 15:22, 22 October 2020 (EDT)

1991-10-00 - always year-month-day. Annie 15:49, 22 October 2020 (EDT)

Submission page shows Disambiguated Artist. I find 2 Chris Moore (Chris Moore and Chris Moore in error) Not sure how to distinguish between the two on the edit page. aardvark7 15:29, 22 October 2020 (EDT)

Don't worry about it - it is just a warning that there may be a different artist with the same name (to make you double check that you specified the correct one). In this case, you have the correct one. Annie 15:49, 22 October 2020 (EDT)

Yup, looks alright to me. You can do a follow-up edit where you adjust the date (change it to 1991-10-00), and upload the cover (make sure that the picture is no larger than 600 pixels high, press 'upload cover scan', right-click on the uploaded picture and 'Copy image address', finally, that image address goes into the Image URL field of the publication). Give it a try, I'd say :) MagicUnk 12:27, 23 October 2020 (EDT)

OK I uploaded a 600p high screen shot as we do not have Goodreads permission. This cover is from 92 so I did not change date. I do not know if the original pub date of 91-10-00 had the same cover. Where did you find the cover price? I looked everywhere. aardvark7 17:14, 23 October 2020 (EDT)

For the date, I was merely referring to Annie's example, so 1992 is good. For what the price is concerned, that was entered by Ahasuerus. You can see that here. I don't know where he got the price from. For what the cover is concerned. You uploaded the image correctly, but forgot to copy the link into the publication record. I've done that for you - have a look here. Regards, MagicUnk 09:06, 24 October 2020 (EDT)

I didn't link the image because I didn't know how. Is the link always the same except for the jpg name? I see it is a bit different than the webpage. aardvark7 20:04, 25 October 2020 (EDT)

Kinda. Start from the page where you uploaded the page. In this case here. Click on the image itself and copy the path from your browser. Annie 20:12, 25 October 2020 (EDT)

AHHH! I see! Thank you! Making notes for future reference. aardvark7 20:37, 25 October 2020 (EDT)

Gabriel Finley and the Raven's Riddle

Hello,

So how is this submission different from the book we have? If it is because of the and/& and you had verified the title page, just fix the book we have. I find it useful to search by ISBN before I add new books - often we have an incomplete record (or sometimes complete) that can be completed. Thanks! :) Annie 01:12, 2 February 2021 (EST)

Hi Annie, I try to search the data base by title and author before I add anything new. I guess I missed this one so let it go to the dumpster aardvark7 13:46, 2 February 2021 (EST)

I find an ISBN search to be more effective -- less likely to be caught in the "and/&" discrepancy. Rejected this one now -- you can edit the other one. Thanks! Annie 13:53, 2 February 2021 (EST)

Allison’s Defeat

I approved it but a few fixes were needed:

• We add dots and spaces between initials of authors regardless of how the cover/title page styles them unless we have a positive proof that an author uses a different punctuation.
• When the publisher is CreateSpace and there is no real publisher on Look Inside or elsewhere, use the name of the author as publisher. We treat CreateSpace as a printer :) In this case, Look inside of the 2017 editions shows that the 2012 edition is from Alpira Media.
• Please add a note on sources. If you use Amazon, put in "Data from Amazon.com as of currentdate" (replace currentdate with the date).
• "pb" is mass market paperback. Anything else, including the new tall mass market paperbacks is "tp". If you see 5x8 inches, it will always be a "tp" :)
• Please do NOT add the cover before the book is approved. I know it means another step but when you just put it somewhere on the wiki, it may be lost during a backup or be replaced by mistake. So wait for the book to be approved and then use the Upload Cover button and then update the book to link them.

The result is here. Let me know if you have any questions. Annie 01:22, 2 February 2021 (EST)

Dots on initials.. Check

CreateSpace = author.. Check

OK I see what you mean by "Look Inside". Never thought about looking for stuff there. Thanks!!

I try to put links to my book and cover artist in my notes to the Moderator. In this case it was Amazon and Deviantart. Is this not where to put this info??

I used pb because that what Amazon was calling it, but I will make a note that 5x8 is tp

I will try to remember about the cover. My other current submissions already have the cover uploaded.

Still trying to figure this whole thing out. aardvark7 14:03, 2 February 2021 (EST)

No worries - this is why we are all here - to assist. If you are not sure about something, just ask :)

IF Amazon calls in paperback, we call it tp. If Amazon calls is Mass Market Paperback, it is most likely a "pb" here (except these tall/premium ones...):) I know... a bit confusing until you get used to it - but think of "tp" as the default paperback format :)

Careful with look inside though. For example in this case it was showing the 2017 edition even if Amazon had the 2012 there. But the publisher info for both was there so it worked out. If it was not, we would have used the author name. :) But yep - it is a useful place to look for things like this :)

The sources for the art go into the notes field - it is visible for anyone who finds the record - see what I did in this one. So yes - the link in the moderator note is fine but we need the source visible as well.

Let me know if I missed something :) Annie 14:16, 2 February 2021 (EST)

I just submitted Shadowcastle by Michael Gray. I did not find the title or isbn in the database. And Michael Gray did not have this title listed. My source Amazon and Archive have an isbn different from everyone else (Goodreads, Abebooks etc.)but you can see the isbn in the book at archive.org. Hopefully I have the notes correct. I made note that it was distributed by Random House but TSR is on the cover. Like all robots, I crave input!! aardvark7 16:49, 2 February 2021 (EST)

I approved you submission of Je m'habillerai de nuit. I changed it to a juvenile title to match the English language versions, then made it a variant of I Shall Wear Midnight. This is normally the way to add a non-English version to a publication. You need to wait until the original submission is approved, then name it as a variant in a second submission. Just leave a note for the moderator that you intend to do that with the initial submission. Bob 18:05, 3 February 2021 (EST)

Je m'habillerai de nuit

I approved you submission of Je m'habillerai de nuit. I changed it to a juvenile title to match the English language versions, then made it a variant of I Shall Wear Midnight. This is normally the way to add a non-English version to a publication. You need to wait until the original submission is approved, then name it as a variant in a second submission. Just leave a note for the moderator that you intend to do that with the initial submission. Bob 18:06, 3 February 2021 (EST)

Thanks for the info. I am adding it to my library. I have a Pinterest account where I match art up to the usage. I am all over the internet looking for stuff so that is where I am coming up with the foreign versions as well as other stuff. It's been a trip! aardvark7 13:39, 4 February 2021 (EST)

Les Aventuriers de la mer

When submitting where you got the information from, it's best to put that information in the Publication Note. I put it in for here here (based off the Moderator note from your submission). Please let me know if you have any questions. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:12, 3 February 2021 (EST)

Yes, Annie told me about this. This submission was before I had that information. All of my recent ones have been done this way as well as not adding the cover until after the submission has been approved.

Still learning... aardvark7 13:46, 4 February 2021 (EST)

I'm still learning, as well. :) ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:31, 19 July 2021 (EDT)

And All the Stars a Stage

Regarding this submission: When a secondary source (i.e. not the book) is used for a cover art, the canonical name of the artist is used regardless of how the secondary source shows the credit. As such, the current credit in the pub is correct. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:22, 14 February 2021 (EST)

No problem, I found his name in the data base with all the variations aardvark7 22:38, 15 February 2021 (EST)

Entering information

Hi, People are no computers and vice-versa. What seems logical to you is *NOT* logical to the computer. If the database asks for a name, put a name in that field, no more, not a complete story including the name of the picture and where it is to be varianted against.--Dirk P Broer 20:34, 21 February 2021 (EST)

I am assuming you mean the one where I put the two ISBNs together (if you have both, where do you list the 2nd?) and where I added too much for the author. I was hoping it would come out looking like this example Cover: Le guet des orfèvres (2000) • by Josh Kirby (variant of Men at Arms 1993) aardvark7 21:55, 21 February 2021 (EST)

That nice view happens by submitting a variant after the original is accepted - no way to do it in one step. :)

The second ISBN goes into the notes - we even have a template for it (so we can find them when/if we ever allow multiple ISBNs: {{ISBN|value}} which produces "Additional ISBN value" (more details here. It is to be used for real second ISBNs and not for ISBN10/13 variants - these get just noted in the Notes.) Annie 22:13, 21 February 2021 (EST).

The second ISBN even gets auto-created! He submits both the ISBN-10 and the ISBN-13.--Dirk P Broer 15:26, 22 February 2021 (EST)

NOTES it is. Another question, I have been putting the link(s) of where I am finding my information in the NOTES TO MODERATOR or should this go in the PUB WEB PAGE??? aardvark7 22:34, 21 February 2021 (EST)

Depends on what kinds of links they are. Stores and collections with unstable URLs - keep them to the moderator notes. Things like Wikipedia, library sources that we have no external IDs for, publisher sites, author sites pages and so on - these can go into the web Pages. But check what we have as external ID as well - Goodreads, OCLC, LCCN, various international libraries and bibliographies, ASIN (for ebooks and for 979 ISBN paperbacks; no Amazon links go in the Web links AND if the ASIN does not start with B, it is an ISBN10 so it does not get added as an ASIN either)) and a lot more are added as external IDs (which produce links when possible (the Reginalds do not for example)) and not in the webpages. And for cases where it is a big page (another bibliography) where there is data for a lot of books, not just this one, you add them in the proper notes (with html a tags) - the web pages are for links that are for this book, not that may contain things about this book. Hope this makes sense. Annie 22:50, 21 February 2021 (EST)

Sounds like I will be keeping them in the Mod Notes. I have a few more Marc Simonetti French Discworld versions to go aardvark7 09:15, 22 February 2021 (EST)

As all those titles already are in the database, just not the editions with Marc Simonetti cover art, lease use 'add publication to title', instead of creating new title and publication records.--Dirk P Broer 15:27, 22 February 2021 (EST)

OK I see that option. Sorry I haven't been using this before. aardvark7 16:33, 22 February 2021 (EST)

If they have introductions and so on that are the same, you can also use ClonePub (just unckeck the "use the same cover" and add the other artist as well. Annie 16:35, 22 February 2021 (EST)

OK I have added this info to my notes aardvark7 16:49, 22 February 2021 (EST)

If you enter an ISBN-13 (for books after 2007) the ISBN-10 gets auto-created for the record - you see it in brackets after the ISBN-13. The same way around when you enter an ISBN-10 for books before 2007: the ISBN-13 gets auto-created for the record - you see it in brackets after the ISBN-10. There is no need for the ISBN in the note to moderator. For the cover art: you can enter that together with your submission. Instead of https://www.amazon.fr/Annales-du-Disque-Monde-6/dp/2266211862/ref=pd_bxgy_img_3/261-8050148-0992557?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=2266211862&pd_rd_r=18409865-5113-481d-97d8-7a1b22ebc9e7&pd_rd_w=PNvBd&pd_rd_wg=wdUto&pf_rd_p=a23bc06b-c1d8-47e8-84ee-a2dc78a694f2&pf_rd_r=0N4Z8KPVJC0SJTRZMSHG&psc=1&refRID=0N4Z8KPVJC0SJTRZMSHG in the note to moderator field, you enter https ://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51uotjHpcdL.jpg in the cover image field (but then without the space between https and the colon). You can obtain that string by right-clicking into the image at Amazon.fr and deleting the part between the two dots, plus either the first or the last dot, it is originally https ://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51uotjHpcdL._SX303_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg. This is just an example for Trois sœurcières of course, but the general principle holds.--Dirk P Broer 06:58, 24 February 2021 (EST)

Thanks for the info on the ISBN. I use to upload my cover at the same time I added a pub. But I had another mod tell me not to upload until the submission was approved. That it could be lost during a backup or be replaced by mistake. But then I have been uploading a scan of the cover rather than a link. Many of the covers come from other sources than Amazon. aardvark7 16:24, 24 February 2021 (EST)

If the cover image is an external link, you can add during the pub creation. If you are uploading a cover image to the ISFDB, wait until the pub is created and use the "Upload cover scan" link on the pub page so that it is uploaded to correct location and has the proper templates applied. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:59, 24 February 2021 (EST)

Yep.. got it in my notes aardvark7 17:24, 6 March 2021 (EST)

tp vs pb

Now... this is the opposite to what I usually need to do :) This shows as 11 x 17.9 cm in Amazon France which will make it a pb, not a tp :)

And one other thing on the date - Noosfere has it a year earlier - [see https://www.noosfere.org/livres/niourf.asp?numlivre=2146578307]. OCLC says 2011. As you have the sources I will just fix the tp/pb and leave it like that but if you can figure out the discrepancy, that will be very helpful. :) Annie 17:25, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

Took a look-see and I am seeing two different ISBN numbers Amazon.fr from 2011 is 978-2266226172 noosfere.org from 2010 is 978-2-266-21184-0 noosfere also lists other Pocket editions from 1998, 2001, 2001, 2005, 2006, 2007 & 2009, but they have different covers. Does this help?? Should I go in and add the 2010 edition?? aardvark7 19:09, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

Oops, I need better glasses -- I somehow missed the different ISBN on Noosfere - I was looking at the covers and my brain apparently froze for a second. My bad :) So problem solved :) You can add any edition that you want to - we would love to have any and all editions ever published :) Annie 19:25, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

Annie on the June 2009 version of L'Hiverrier, it is missing the price. I found it at https://www.noosfere.org/livres/niourf.asp?numlivre=2146574212 at 5 euro. However I don't see how to add it. When I hit edit, that field is not there. aardvark7 21:19, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

Are you hitting it on the TITLE or on the PUBLICATION record. You need the publication (aka the book) and not the title (that collects all editions with the same language/title/author/translator/text :) Annie 21:26, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

So in this case this is the title. this is the book. Prices and Noosfere number go into the second (Noosfere is one of our external identifiers) :) Annie 21:27, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

Ah! I see how that works. I have also found different year editions but they have the same ISBN. Are those considered the same or different? Don't ask me which ones, I've been roaming noosfere looking at stuff. aardvark7 21:54, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

If they are different printings or editions, we want them all separately. So if you are sure that it is not a typo in the year, yes, we want them. :) Annie 22:02, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

When you are using Noosfere, add the number in the external IDs. See how I did it here :) Annie 22:35, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

And currency symbol always goes before the number regardless of how it is used in the language/country the book belongs to. I am fixing as approving like here :) Annie 22:39, 15 March 2021 (EDT)

My notes are getting longer and longer.... aardvark7 11:39, 16 March 2021 (EDT)

Well, it is a big DB. More seriously though - I know that there are a lot of things to remember so when/if you forget something, someone will be here to remind you and assist. So no worries. :) Annie 12:36, 16 March 2021 (EDT)

Artist for The Dome in the Forest and editing publications with Primary Verifiers

Hi. I processed your submission adding Tony Roberts as the artist for The Dome in the Forest, and there were a few things I wanted to make you aware of:

• Unless it's the artist's account, we generally treat secondary credits on sites such as tumblr, pinterest, and seller sites as noteworthy but not authoritative, and we would not add or change an artist credit based solely on such sources. We would record that information in the pub notes, where they could help someone with future research.
• That said, since we have contact information for Tony Roberts, I sent him email, and he confirmed that it is his work. That's quite authoritative. So I accepted your change and...
• ... When adding information that is from anywhere other than the publication itself, the source of that information needs to be recorded in the pub notes, not only in a note to the moderator (which helps the moderator process the submission but does not become part of the entry's data). I have added a note, so just something to keep in mind for the future.
• If a publication has any Primary Verifiers, ISFDB etiquette/policy asks that you notify the Primary Verifier of any changes related to the book's data, by posting a note on their talk page (or following any instructions found there). If you are adding information, it is ok to submit your additions and to do the notification in parallel. If you are altering or removing any information, you should ask first and only submit your changes if the verifier concurs. This publication has a verifier, so I left a note covering both your addition of the credit and my addition to the pub notes. Again, just something to keep in mind for the future.

Thanks. --MartyD 13:45, 12 April 2021 (EDT)

adding to my notes aardvark7 15:22, 24 April 2021 (EDT)

User Message

When posting messages to a user, please make sure you are posting on their User talk: page and not their User: page. I moved this message to Spacecow's talk page. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 15:59, 9 May 2021 (EDT)

Floating Dragon

I have had to reject this submission. ISBN numbers encode the publisher. An ISBN starting with 0-00- is a book published by HarperCollins (including its various prior names and imprints). An ISBN starting with with 0-399- is a book published by Putnam. This record is correctly identified as a Collins edition based on the ISBN. The only issue was the image (Amazon images are not necessarily reliable and can change over time) which I have updated to the correct one. A verified record for the Putnam edition is already in the database here. By the way, Amazon dates for older pubs are unreliable. They will often put January 1st when they mean they don't know the month and day. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:07, 27 June 2021 (EDT)

Not a problem, the big thing for me was that the image seemed to be wrong. I am not familiar with isbn origins but I was finding 2 sources with the isbn that matched the one in the data base, but both had the Terry Oakes image rather that the one on file. aardvark7 11:53, 27 June 2021 (EDT)

Pub series

Hello! I approved your submission of Le régiment monstrueux but correct the publisher. La Dentelle du Cygne is a pub series of the publisher L'Atalante. Regards Rudolf Rudam 04:18, 6 August 2021 (EDT)

Hello again! FYI. Malazan Book of the Fallen is not a publication series, but only a series. I've changed it. Le Livre Des Martyrs is the French title of the series. Regards Rudolf Rudam 08:40, 6 August 2021 (EDT)

Thanks for the info. I think I also did that for another item. aardvark7 10:49, 6 August 2021 (EDT)

Price

Hello! I approved your submission of Le dernier héros. To answer your question: The field to enter the price is only on the publication page and not on the title page. Regards Rudolf Rudam 04:34, 6 August 2021 (EDT)

OK thanks for the information. aardvark7 10:50, 6 August 2021 (EDT)

Double entry

Hello! I've to delete your entry of La citadelle de nacre, because you've enter it before. But I've transfer your new informations into the first entry. Regards Rudolf Rudam 08:46, 6 August 2021 (EDT)

Oops! Sorry! I try to be careful and not dup stuff but one must have slipped through the cracks. aardvark7 10:50, 6 August 2021 (EDT)

City of Tears submissions

Hi. I processed your City of Tears submissions. It looked to me like the one for the paperback got submitted 2X, so I rejected the second of those. And for the ebook, I corrected "F.P." to "F. P." (with a space). Hopefully it all looks right. --MartyD 12:22, 14 August 2021 (EDT)

Crediting secondary sources

Hi. When we have a publication such as Grey Ronin, where we can't find any sort of artist credit or signature from the book but we determine the credit from elsewhere, the source of the credit needs to be documented in the publication notes (which are permanent and are displayed as part of the publication record), not just in a note to the moderator (which is only part of the submission and does not appear in the publication record). Contrast with Prophet's Journey, where you found it on his website, but Look Inside shows us the book explicitly attributes the cover art to him. In the latter case, there is no need to credit the secondary source. I added a note to Grey Ronin, so just something to keep in mind for the future. Thanks. --MartyD 08:26, 15 August 2021 (EDT)

Normally I add the cover artist website. I may have missed this one. aardvark7 13:11, 16 August 2021 (EDT)

tp vs pb

Hi. Make sure to correctly use pb vs tp:

• pb for books with size SMALLER than 7 x 4.25 inches
• tp for books with size LARGER than 7 x 4.25 inches

So, pb & tp have everything to do with size, nothing else. (I corrected your submission of Vault of the Magi :) Regards, MagicUnk 14:33, 22 August 2021 (EDT)

Got it written down. I was going by what Goodreads called it. aardvark7 16:00, 22 August 2021 (EDT)

Una canción para Lya

A few things on this one:

• No need to say that it is a Spanish version of something - that's what the variant will do for you :)
• We have a template for translators and we need this up on the Title level (adding it on the pub level is fine but it is mandatory for the title level). I fixed the one in the pub notes and added it on the title notes as well.
• For Spanish books, LTF is a very good source once you get an ISBN from Goodreads or OCLC - I added the External ID (it also has the contents which now can be added and varianted if one wants to). It also unearthed the fact that there is a publication series :)
• The note for the cover attribution belongs in the notes.
• I added a cover - you can replace it with ISFDB hosted one if you planned to :)

The result is here. Let me know if you have any questions/concerns.

Hi Annie!!

• I clicked on the link 67264 and it gave me a message The requested URL /biblioteca/ver/libro/67264 was not found on this server. I finally was able to find the page and its https://tercerafundacion.net/biblioteca/ver/libro/67264 but I don't know how to fix this.

You found a bug with the LTF links :) Will report to the developer. Annie 17:45, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

• Seeing as this is still a stand-alone, I still need to "Make This Title a Variant" adding Record # 2924575 to Record # 50961. (or would it go with Record # 37356)

Yes. It goes to 37356 (see the contents). Annie 17:45, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

• OK I see where it says Éxitos but how do you know it is a series??

Because we already have it in the DB and because I had worked with the LTF interface before :) Annie 17:45, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

• Your info was new to me for the translator. I made a screen shot.
• I assume whenever I create a new Novel, Omnibus and such, the title page is also created?? But to get the Translator over to it you need to set up the pub page with { {Tr|NAME} }?? (no spaces, I just did cause it went to a link for a blank non-setup template)

Correct. When you create a New publication, it creates two records - a title one and a publication one. Look at the screen when you are creating it - there are two notes fields - one higher on the page (the "title note") and one lower (the pub note). We need the translator in the title note one. It is {{Tr|name}}. It resolves in a record Notes but NOT here in the Wiki. Annie 17:45, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

• There are 2 other paperbacks, 1 Kindle and 1 ebook with this same name and book cover by Plaza y Janés from 2017 (Goodreads) but not in LTF.

They don't have everything and they rarely have ebooks :) You can add the Goodreads ones and so on - I was just pointing to a useful place for more information about Spanish books.

• Finally if I wanted to add the titles in the collection, would I use the English or Spanish names? LTF looks to show both. These would go under the Pub Title, using the editor go to Regular Titles and selecting Add Titles. I see in LTF, the stories are in a different order with no page number and there are only 9 compared to Record # 149281 aardvark7 17:32, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

Spanish names. Then when they are approved you variant to the English ones. See the German one to see how it looks (if you click Edit, you can inspect to see what is inside and how it is added). The English names will come when you variant the title records this one. The order per language often differs. And some translations drop a story or 2 - when that happened, the notes on the title level should be explaining that.

Let me know if I can assist further. :) Annie 17:45, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

• • I have added the contents. Not sure how I variant those. I think somehow link to the original English title? As an example Title: With Morning Comes Mistfall Title Record # 51122. I see both the German & French versions. Oh wait... I will click on the Spanish title.That will take me to a new Title page and then make that a variant to the English title record, correct??

Yep, correct - same way you varianted the collection - find the record in English, variant the Spanish to it and add the translator to the Spanish record. Translations are fun... sometimes :) Annie 19:02, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

• • Hopefully the note I added for the contents & story order is correct. aardvark7 18:56, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

I changed it a bit and also added a note up on the title level. Once we connect everything again, I will look over everything again and make sure it is absolutely correct :) Annie 19:02, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

PS: And the LTF links are now fixed on the site. Thanks for paying attention and reporting it :) Annie 19:27, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

I have to make up for all my screw ups some how!! Also should I add the others from the same publisher I found? I don't think I should add the contents as I have no way of checking to see if they are the same. Goodreads does not give contents and I have not been able to find them in other places. aardvark7 20:44, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

Sure. :) if you want to add them, add them. And yes - no contents unless we find it somewhere. Annie 21:28, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

Just came across a discrepancy, Goodreads lists the translator as Ariadna Molinari Tato. Didn't notice that until after I used the LTF site for the translator who is listed as Ariadna Molinari. I think I should be consistent. Which one do you think I should change? aardvark7 21:23, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

It is the same translator, just differently normalized - pick whatever form of the name you prefer to use. Annie 21:28, 29 September 2021 (EDT)

Yes I assumed they were the same. Didn't know if there was a preference. I went and added Tato to all. aardvark7 16:00, 30 September 2021 (EDT)

We try to credit the way the publication does. When working from secondary sources, it can get murky. PS: Use ":" (adding a new one for every new response so if you respond to this one, you need 4 of them) in threads - see how I changed your last start of the message. That orders things on a page. :) Annie 16:12, 30 September 2021 (EDT)

OK. once I hit "EDIT" I saw what you meant. I do have one more question. In general if you add say 3 books and all 3 items have the exact same cover, can you just upload once and add the same link to all 3 or do each need their own seperate link? aardvark7 09:19, 2 October 2021 (EDT)

You can use one technically but if someone ever changes one of them to a new image (from a scanned real book for example), all 3 will be changed without the updater realizing so not a good idea (because sometimes there is a minute difference even between printings. If the image is not hosted on ISFDB, then no worries - the system will give you a yellow warning but that’s ok. But for our hosted images, we rather have an image per publication. So I’d recommend just to upload it in each book. The COVERTART title will be the same, the links themselves should be different IMO. Hope that makes sense. Annie 15:11, 2 October 2021 (EDT)

Yes it does. I have been uploading each one separately and will keep on doing that. Thanks and take care. aardvark7 17:25, 2 October 2021 (EDT)

HTML formatting

The latest batch you submitted has an HTML issue - you open the href link with " but close with ' which causes issues with the display. I am fixing the ones I am approving images to (' ->" basically) but if any went earlier, you may want to track them back down and fix them before they pop on the overnight report :) Annie 17:54, 11 October 2021 (EDT)

Sorry it was a bad case of copy-paste-replace. I am wanting to show the art source since that is my main interest and many times it is much more that what is shown on the cover. aardvark7 18:02, 11 October 2021 (EDT)

No worries. This was more of a "if you want, go and crawl back through your latest submissions and see if the approving moderators missed any" and "if you are using a template to post these, please fix the template" kinda note. :) It happens. I usually just fix them silently but when I see a trend, I make sure the editor knows (in case they have a bad template or something). Annie 18:14, 11 October 2021 (EDT)

Ebooks and page numbers

As per our rules: "For ebooks, do not enter in this field the number of pages. The estimated number given by the publisher or some sites may be specified in the "Notes" field." I fixed it here. Thanks! Annie 17:56, 11 October 2021 (EDT)

Got cha, Good to know since many times different sources don't agree. I assume this is for both e-books and Kindle ebooks. aardvark7 18:03, 11 October 2021 (EDT)

We do not make a difference between different ebook types - so if you select ebook as a type, the length goes into the notes. Annie 18:12, 11 October 2021 (EDT)

In my notes. aardvark7 18:15, 11 October 2021 (EDT)

Adding future books

Hello,

While technically this is in scope, this book can only be found on Goodreads. They get their feed directly from Amazon so books which are cancelled and removed from Amazon are often retained on Goodreads. It is not a very good practice to add future books based on Goodreads records alone - that creates a lot of vaporware - especially when the book is not trackable anywhere else. Everyone else reports only an ebook. Is there another source showing that this paperback is really coming out in December?

PS: "pb" is used for American style mass market paperbacks. The self-published books are almost always 5x8 inches or bigger which will make them a "tp" - not a pb. Even if this one comes out, chances are it will be a "tp". Thanks! Annie 19:42, 12 October 2021 (EDT)

Yeah, I debated on adding this. In the future I only plan to add books with dates past the current. aardvark7 22:21, 12 October 2021 (EDT)

Future books are fine as long as we have somewhat reliable source for it - publisher site, someone taking orders for the book. Not that these do not slip occasionally but they have better chances. I rarely add books more than 60 days out simply because they tend to move too much (we allow 90 days pre-release). And with the delays I am seeing everywhere on October-December books (paper shortages apparently so some publishers just pushed the whole release back), even 60 days out is a bit too optimistic... I'll keep an eye on it when December comes - it may surprise us all...:) Annie 22:26, 12 October 2021 (EDT)

Been adding a numbers of books by independent author Shannon Pemrick with covers by Jackson Tjota. I can find them on her website so that's a good sign! Plus it lists a number of sites to purchase them from besides Amazon. aardvark7 22:32, 12 October 2021 (EDT)

I am sure the books are coming out. The question is if the paper version you added will come out in December or if it will be ebook only for awhile - the date matches the ebook perfectly and I had seen Amazon goofing up this way, fixing the record and leaving GR in that state... Thus my note :) Thanks for adding the books! :) Annie 22:38, 12 October 2021 (EDT)

I do have a question. Can I assume that just because a book has an ASIN or ISBN, that does not necessarily mean it will come out? Also are there good resources to check these numbers out at?? aardvark7 10:45, 13 October 2021 (EDT)

Correct - having an ISBN or ASIN assigned does not mean the book will make it out at all, let alone on the date it is initially supposed to or with the exact title it is supposed to. Bigger publishers have better data early on and you learn how much to trust them how far out. Self-published and small ones? It can be interesting.

ISBNs are paid for. So they don't get completely cancelled too often although it happens. However, they can get reassigned OR delayed (sometimes for years) so just because an ISBN seems assigned to something does not necessarily mean it will come out when it says it will. Practice had shown that most ISBNs that are going to be cancelled or moved do that before the last 90 days pre-publication (supply chain and so on). Thus our limit on 90 days. Although there are still exceptions - things happen. And dates move - for example Macmillan rescheduled a big chunk of their near-future ISBNs for 2-3 weeks later this month (very annoying) with almost no warning so I had been chasing these across their imprints.

ASINs are Amazon numbers - they assign one to anything they want to sell. So if a book is delayed/cancelled/pulled out before its publication date, they just remove the ASIN as if it never existed. Once published, they remove them when not available but there is trace elsewhere. But if it is not on ANY Amazon (the 16 have different data and can have different list of dead ASINs) and it is in the future, it is a dead ASIN. The book may be coming out - but Amazon will assign a new ASIN.

If you are asking "where can we check if a future book will come out" the answer is nowhere. We hedge our bets based on experience and what we had seen before. I had been adding the new and forthcoming books to the site in the last few years so I kinda know the patterns of most publishers. As a rule - the more different sites/stores report an ISBN or a book, the more likely is that it will be out; on the other hand if a book is supposed to be out in 2 weeks but still has no cover anywhere or seems to be very limited on a search, something is off and I would wait it out to see if it will come out. Hope this makes some sense. Annie 16:00, 13 October 2021 (EDT)

And here I thought ASIN had something to do with audio/ebooks since that is where I have been seeing them. So its one big guessing game! Fun..Fun.. Thank you for the info. Oh is there a place where I can find what all of the Externals IDs stand for?? aardvark7 18:33, 13 October 2021 (EDT)

They are always there on ebooks and audio books when sourcing/checking from/on Amazon because the rule for ISBN10 only applies to paper books (Amazon assigns ISBN10 as ASIN to paper books. Those we do not record as ASINs because the standard Amazon links work). So anything that is not a paper book, gets an ASIN which starts with B - those we record. Now - there is the problem of the 979- ISBNs - these do not have an ISBN10 anymore (978 ones convert cleanly; 979 are... new). So for them, we now have ASINs again in addition to the ISBN even on paper books. Welcome to the fun!

More or less. Once you get used to how things operate, the guesses are more educated than before that. Although for most of 2020 I was literally checking daily to see what went where and I was adding only 2 weeks ahead of time if that - things were moving too much. We are mostly back to normal - occasional craziness like the Macmillan delays but I keep an eye on news from the industry and tend to slow down the future books when I hear about delays (like just now - which also explains the Macmillans somewhat). But the less known a publisher is, the more likely is for them to not publish - and even Amazon knows that - like the edition we started the conversation with - Amazon probably decided it is too uncertain and they did not want to accept pre-orders so they pulled it (or they really messed up). But the big publishers pre-load on Amazon months in advance; the smaller one do it closer to publishing day. I have a "go check all the books from this month to see if they came out" step that I do when I have a minute - usually a few months after the month is done. We still miss some but that tends to catch most.

The question mark next to the IDs on the Edit pages opens this help page. There are even some notes on what we record and where and how and why :) Please also note that we have a way to record these in publications they do not belong to (for sources for example) - see IDs in notes. Annie 18:54, 13 October 2021 (EDT)

Thanks for the info! and its a good time to end this thread. Getting way too many : !! aardvark7 14:46, 14 October 2021 (EDT)

Adding additional formats for chapbooks

Hello,

When adding a new format for chapbooks (as you did for [Prophecy Tested: An Oracle's Path Short this one], use ClonePub and not AddPub. ClonePub will bring the story with you (and the coverart if you tell it so with the appropriate checkbox. If you use AddPub, you need to import the story (and the cover) as a second step. As a general rule:

• Novels that have no extra essays around them and not covers/interior art and empty collections/anthologies : either ClonePub or AddPub will work
• Chapbooks, omnibuses, collections and anthologies with contents, novels that have extra essays or covers you want to bring with you into the new copy - use ClonePub.

I personally use AddPub only when either there is nothing to clone (firts chapbook for a story that was here in a different way for example) or I am dropping essays (new introductions and so on for novels). Otherwise I go for ClonePub. But you will find your own rules based on how you use the site. I will fix these two chapbooks now - just keep that in mind for the next ones. I will also merge the three coverartsc you created. - when you type an author name for a cover, you are creating a new record :) Annie 01:50, 23 October 2021 (EDT)

One more small thing: If the BN ID is the ISBN13, we do not record that as a BN ID :) ASIN/ISBN10 and BN/ISBN13 are the standard for paper books so you put the ISBN in the ISBN field and then do not fill ASIN and BN. You fill them if they are different. We have a link on the left to both Barnes&Nobles and to Amazon based on ISBN13/ISBN10. You only use ASIN/BN if the value is different. Annie 01:55, 23 October 2021 (EDT)

OK I most likely entered this as a novel. What is the difference between a novel and a chapbook? Never mind, I looked. Its a chapbook becouse it is only one very short story. Is there a general rule as to when a story goes from short story to novel? (page count?) aardvark7 15:13, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

Word count. 40,000 words are needed for a novel. In modern books, the break so somewhere around 150 pages but can be as high as 250 or as low as 70 based on the fonts. Annie 15:22, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

Ah! nothing like a rule that is clear as mud! Never seen any source give a work count and 99% of these items I do not have a copy!! Fortunately this is the first time I have come upon one of these. And my fault, I didn't notice the BN being the same as the ISBN. I was using it as a 2nd source that the book actually came out aardvark7 15:28, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

So add BN As a source to the pub notes. Most paperbacks won’t have separate BN number. :)

It is the Hugo/Nebula rule. The rule is as clear as it can be - there is nothing more definitive than the number of words in a text. It is the sources that are not clear. We are a speculative fiction dB, remember? :) For lengths, Kobo Rakuten can be useful - their estimates for length on eBooks are decent (under 36K always means too short for a novel; over 44K is always novel - in the middle you play it by the ear). Or audiobooks lengths (under 4 hours cannot be a novel, over 5 is almost guaranteed to be a novel - over 6 is absolutely a novel). And counting the words on a page from a preview estimating the word count and interpolating accounting for empty pages and so on. When you are in the middle? Hit the internet and blogs to see what people call it and if someone counted (sometimes someone does). Annie 16:01, 24 October 2021 (EDT)

Thanks for the info. Oh if you are ever curious as to why I find these books, go to Pinterest and look up Randy Marcy (I am the only one). There you will see my great passion! aardvark7 11:04, 25 October 2021 (EDT)

Two different cover artists

Hello! I hold your submission to add Jonny Duddle as the cover artist of this book Harrius Potter et Camera Secretorum. I found another book Potter and the Chamber of Secrets in which the cover artist is Cliff Wright. Who is the correct artist? Regards Rudolf Rudam 06:49, 31 October 2021 (EDT)