User talk:Mgpb

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Important!

This editor is no longer actively participating and is unlikely to respond to messages left here.

If this user is the sole verifier of a publication record, please:

  • post only notices on the user's talk page concerning the addition of images and notes
  • post inquiries regarding any other changes to the verified record at the Moderator noticeboard

Otherwise, please post notices and inquiries only on the talk pages of the other primary verifiers.

Welcome!

Hello, Mgpb, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!Kraang 14:10, 6 Aug 2007 (CDT)

New Lloyd Biggle novel

Thanks for the submission adding this novel to the database. There was a couple of things I had to do with the submission in order for it to conform with ISFDB standards. The ISBN must contain all the numbers including any leading zeros (in this case I had to make the ISBN 0-933031-25-4). Also, place the dollar sign before all US prices, such as $14.95 instead of simply 14.95. Thanks for the contributions and I look forward to your continuing submissions to the ISFDB. Mhhutchins 17:27, 11 Dec 2007 (CST)

Many thanks for your comments. I will make every effort to be more watchful on future submissions. See next section for my comments (all applicable here) for why I've been such a slow learner, and that I'll try to improve! Mgpb 11:01, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)

First Flights to the Moon

I have approved the First Flights to the Moon submission and then made the following changes:

  • "xx + 217" changed to "xx+217". Our software accepts this format, but generally expects no spaces between different components of the page count field. I am not sure if the spaces may break anything in the application, but better safe than sorry ;-)
  • "LC# 74-103738" moved from the "ISBN / Catalog #" field to the Notes field. The Catalog ID field is used to display the ISBN number (when available) or the catalog ID that was typically printed on the cover of paperback books before ISBNs became widespread in the 1970s. The Library of Congress number is a different beast and is usually printed on the copyright page, so I moved it to Notes.
  • Changed Hal Clement's "Foreword" from EDITOR to ESSAY. This is a very common error since it's easy to assume that "EDITOR" must stand for "Editorial". Unfortunately, in this case it stands for "Magazine Editor" and forewords, editorials, etc are entered as Essays instead.

Everything else looks good, thanks for the submissions! Ahasuerus 21:12, 16 Dec 2007 (CST)

Thank you for your feedback, and please accept my apologies for this very late response. I must confess to the several sins of cluelessness, sloth, and inattention. Although not an excuse, part of the cluelessness has been the apparent complexity of the ISFDB interface, and the sloth has been my erroneously assuming that I could figure bits out without really taking the time to read the directions (something I definitely regard as a sin!). I understand all points you make -- some are especially valuable as they are seemingly not reflected on the general publication data page (such as spaces in pagination data). I also will make an attempt to more frequently review this page and respond more timely to comments and questions. Mgpb 10:58, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)
No worries! Our software, as you note, is fairly complex and not always intuitive, so it always takes new editors (even professional programmers and editors) some time to learn its quirks. The user interface complexities are in part a reflexion of the underlying data relationship complexities that we are trying to model and in part a side effect of the all volunteer nature of the project. I am just glad you have found the Wiki since some new editors never do :(
We do have detailed instructions covering a multitude of permutations over on the Help:Contents page -- and we try to keep our Help pages up to date as the software and our conventions evolve -- but the proof is in the pudding (or rather in the submissions, in our case), so please check back frequently for moderators' comments. Thanks for editing! :-) Ahasuerus 14:26, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)

Flashing Swords! #2

I left a note when rejecting one of your submission, I'm not sure if you noticed:
"The Toads of Grimmerdale" is used in 10 publications, I don’t think we can safely update all of them particularly as some are verified. The way to do this edit is to add "Toads of Grimmerdale" as a new entry, then remove "The Toads of Grimmerdale": then we can merge "Toads of Grimmerdale".
I thought I'd point it out as it means you've currently verified something that doesn't match what you actually want it to look like. BLongley 14:11, 20 Dec 2007 (CST)

Thank you very much for your comments. Please see above for my apologies and resolve to do better!

I believe I understand your desired end result, but need to read a little more about procedures to be able to be comfortable with the procedure you outline.

You bring up a general question: I often verify something, thinking that I am verifying the data that is currently in the record. But often that record is (to me) incomplete -- such as missing the month on a publication date, or missing page numbers, etc. After I verify, I often go back and edit the verified record to add the missing information -- is this bad? Should I figure that if I add new data I should NOT verify, but rather leave verification to another, independent, contributor? Mgpb 11:20, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)

It's fine to verify something you edit, but you may want to check that the edits you submitted got through first. It also makes it easier on the approver, who only gets a warning that the publication being edited is already verified - it doesn't say that the person submitting the edits is the one that's verified it. BLongley 11:29, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)
Okay, feeling a little more sure of how things are working, so I've made a return visit to this publication. I've added the title "Toads of Grimmerdale" and deleted the title "The Toads of Grimmerdale" per your direction. At this point, these two titles need to be made variants of each other -- how is that done? Mgpb 09:10, 24 Dec 2007 (CST)
Not quite right - your first two steps are correct, but the variant is already there, you've just created ANOTHER "Toads of Grimmerdale" record that needs to be merged with the one that already is a variant. If you do an Advanced Title search for "Toads of Grimmerdale" you'll see all three records:
  • 1973 SHORTFICTION 62622 The Toads of Grimmerdale Andre Norton
  • 1974 SHORTFICTION 361901 Toads of Grimmerdale Andre Norton
  • 1973 SHORTFICTION 837051 Toads of Grimmerdale Andre Norton
The second is a variant of the first already, the third is your new record. Select the second and third for merging: you'll be presented with a page to select which of the differences you want to keep. The important one is "title_parent Conflict: 62622" - select that and you'll keep the variant relationship. The dates are going to be slightly off anyway and can be corrected afterwards. BLongley 09:58, 24 Dec 2007 (CST)
Argh. I am sorry to keep taking up your time with this fumbling. I see what you are saying, and have done the merge per your suggestion. Since (according to the book) the story was published for the first time in this volume, presumably 1974 is correct -- where then did the 1973 date come from on "The Toads ..."? To make sure I've got this procedure right -- in the future, should this arise, how do I specifically reference an existing variant title (rather than erroneously create a new one and have to merge it)? I see how to find it (which I did not do on this one), but how do I use it? Mgpb 15:53, 24 Dec 2007 (CST)
Don't worry about my time, it's what I'm here for (among other things). As to where the dates came from, no idea: possibly Wikipedia, possibly it was given a copyright date from details in a later book printing, which is often the year before actual printing date (or even earlier). These are Ok to start with but we want to adjust them to actual first printing dates as and when we can prove them (usually from primary verification, so thanks again for editing!).
It's not actually an error to create another version of the title when you do the "add good record, remove bad record" - that's the way it works, you can add slightly more specific dates for instance, which makes it easier when you merge later. In this case I suspect "1974-02-00" is the first publication date, in Flashing Swords: "1974-00-00" LOOKS earlier but is probably actually later that year. We'll not know for sure till someone checks the book, but 1973 looks right out now. But "Add good title, remove bad title, wait for approval then merge the added title with any already-existing ones" is the right way to do it. BLongley 18:03, 24 Dec 2007 (CST)

Cover artists and Interior artists

Thanks for the submission. Have made a couple of changes to your submission and the cover artist is the most important. When entering cover artists only the cover artist should be listed, other artists should be entered separately as new content. In the case of Shelly and the maps they would be entered as interior art. I'll approve and make the changes then leave some samples on your talk page. Can you have a look at this pub Demon in the Mirror [1] and recheck the ISBN# . The checksum is bad and the $2.50 price seems to high for 1978. Some publication have the incorrect ISBN# on the cover and if this is the case it should be recorded in notes. Thanks for editing. :-)Kraang 21:13, 22 Dec 2007 (CST)

Interior artist samples Enchanter's End Game [2] & Guardians of the West [3].Kraang 21:35, 22 Dec 2007 (CST)

Apologies for a slow response (please see my comments above for general explanation and resolve to do better). Your comments are valuable to me, thank you. Question: is the "other artists should be entered separately as new content" procedure documented anywhere you can give me a link to? I understand what you are saying, but will have to fumble trying to figure out how to do such (the examples you give are clear as to results desired).

Regarding "Demon in the Mirror" (which I have in hand): the ISBN of 0-671-47619-4 (which is what I entered) matches in three places -- spine, copyright page, and BC, so other than being able to confirm the data as entered, I have no solution to the bad checksum problem. The $2.50 cover price and "First Pocket Books printing January, 1978" come from the copyright page, but I think I have made an error (newbie problem which I am sure you encounter a lot) -- the line below the "first printing" statement is "10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3" -- this means that this copy is NOT a first printing, but rather a tenth printing? If so, that will explain the incongruous price. If this is a tenth printing, what should I have entered for the publication date?

Mgpb 11:11, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)

Thanks for the info on the ISBN#, I'll leave a note and make the necessary changes to the pub. In this case this is the third printing of this book and we would enter the date as "0000-00-00" this way the program knows its an unknown date, also the program creates a proper tag number. When adding essays, art work or other things in the contents of a book use the "Add Title" button in the "Content" section when you are doing an edit, but don't change any of the existing data like author or titles. Its better to add data in this section not to change existing data, that is done a different way. If you have any other questions you can leave them here or on any of the different wiki pages. To see any new messages or other conversations in the wiki click on "Recent changes" in the "navigation" box.Kraang 11:32, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)
The "proper" ISBN would be 067147619X - there's two ways to deal with this, which are to put the proper one in the ISBN field and the bad one in notes, or vice-versa. The advantages to the first are that the links to the Bookseller sites usually work better, and that the publication isn't continually flagged up by our occasional data-validation scripts. Conversely, leaving the bad one in the ISBN field more accurately reflects what is actually on the publication - but it would be better to put a '#' sign in front so we know it's more like a serial number than a working ISBN. BLongley 11:51, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)
As for the third printing and the date for it, there's two schools of thought at present. One is to follow the help and date them '0000-00-00' as per help, which then shows as "unknown". A more recent school prefers to leave the date as for the stated first printing (sometimes putting the printing number in as the 'day' part of the date) but stating the exact printing number in the notes. This helps sort them more usefully, rather than having a huge bunch of "unknowns" at the top of a page and only first editions by publisher in date order below. If you choose the latter, the main thing is to make it clear in notes that that's what you're doing. We hope to have proper printing number support at some point, but in the meantime we have to make do with one convention or the other. Finally - it's not wise to UPDATE a specified date to an unknown one, it may have been given for a reason (e.g. sometimes dates of previous printings are given in a later edition). Many entries here do come from a reasonable source, it's just that the source may not have been noted at the time. Sometimes it's a dodgy source: e.g. I might guess your 3rd edition is November 1983 as that's the third edition Amazon knows about - but I personally don't trust Amazon dates much. BLongley 11:51, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)
Here's the updated pub with the bad ISBN# [4]Kraang 11:57, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)

The Man-Kzin Wars

One of the other things you can do when entering a new pub. is if there is a matching coll. or anth. with content like this [5] , all you need do is use the "clone this pub" in the editing tools. You then change the date, ISBN#, notes and so on. This way the content of the pub gets merged at the same time. Give it a try with "The Man-Kzin Wars" that you just did. You can the delete the first one you submitted.Kraang 15:20, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)

Thought about it for exactly this publication, but decided against it because the existing publication you reference has the title "Iron" by Anderson listed as two parts, rather than the one part in my copy -- as I understand it, when cloning a publication, I cannot change the titles contained in the publication (but I can change the fields associated with the publication itself, such as ISBN, date, etc). Am I missing something, or did I choose the right way to handle this particular issue? Mgpb 15:52, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)
In this case it was best to do it the way you did, but you can use the clone option and the add new content in the content section. Just use the "Add title" button. Add the new title(s),page#,author(s) and change the pub type to "Shortfiction, interior art, and so on. You then can bring up the publication and click on the "unmerge titles option", mark the box beside the title to be removed and submit. In the case of this pub you can go back and enter the titles according to the table of contents(TOC).Kraang 16:28, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)

Question on Niven: Limits

Question before proceeding: I have the Ballantine 1985-02-00 first edition in my hand, and was going to verify the existing entry, but I notice that the existing entry [6] has the short story "Table Manners" listed instead of "Folk Tale" in my copy (same pagination throughout). Since this publication has not been verified, should I

  • change the short story title, assuming an error has been made in previous entry
  • simply raise the issue here (or elsewhere?)

I am guessing that possibly the discrepancy occurred if the later (verified) Orbit printing [7] was cloned to make this entry (it also shows the substitution of story titles). Mgpb 16:43, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)

Someone has probably cloned the Orbit edition and not changed the story title. What you do is bring up the publication and click on "edit this pub". Than at the bottom of the contents page click on "Add Title" and enter the correct title for this pub.,put in the author, page number and submit. Than hit your back button until you have the pub up again and click on "remove titles from this pub". Check the title to be removed and submit.Kraang 17:07, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)
Done as suggested. How is this different than the one-step simple-minded changing the title in place when editing the publication? Mgpb 17:21, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)
You'd have changed ALL occurrences of the title, and I'd have been rather annoyed. ;-) BLongley 17:25, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)
All the publications that have that title will be changed, not just the pub. your editing. This way only the pub. your editing is changed. I've also made Table Manners a variant of Folk Tales. :-)Kraang 17:45, 23 Dec 2007 (CST)
Ah ha -- I hadn't realized that the title in a publication was a pointer to a master "title" record, but rather thought it was essentially the data specific to this appearance of the title in this publication. The add/drop methodology makes perfect sense now. Mgpb 07:42, 24 Dec 2007 (CST)

The Space Merchants

Okay, I've made an error. I see no way to directly retract a pubupdate that has been submitted, so this is the only way I know of to contact a moderator about it (it has not yet been processed by anyone specific). I updated a couple of fields on the wrong edition of "The Space Merchants" (I was one off in the list). Can this submitted edit be voided? Mgpb 13:08, 27 Dec 2007 (CST)

I am afraid it's too late :( Your submission 903148 was approved on 2007-12-27 at 14:04:45 ISFDB time according to the logs, so the change will have to be reversed manually. If you don't remember what was in the publication before you changed the data, let me know what edition it was and I can look it up in the backup file. Also, the easiest way to contact the moderators is by posting on the ISFDB:Moderator noticeboard, which is linked from the Community Portal, but even then it may take some time to be noticed. I agree that the ability to withdraw submissions would be quite handy, so we may want to create a new feature request. Ahasuerus 14:40, 27 Dec 2007 (CST)
You moderators are just too doggone efficient! :) I am afraid you will indeed need to look up the previous data for the fields of price and numpages for [[8]] as these were the only fields I changed (I believe it had no price entered, and possibly numpages of 148 or 158, but I cannot be certain). Thank you for your help with this; sorry for the bungle. So far as suggested new features, I would suggest two (based on my short experience to date):
  • The ability to retract/cancel a submitted change (as mentioned),
  • The ability to include a note to the moderator who will be accepting/rejecting the edit. I know I can add a note in the publication entry itself, but I am suggesting a temporary, moderator-eyes-only type note (something like "I am trying to achieve xxx, is this right?"). Mgpb 15:29, 27 Dec 2007 (CST)
Are you sure it was the 1976 Ballantine edition that you changed? According to the last (2007-12-19] backup, this record had the following data:
mysql> select * from pubs where pub_isbn like '0345255968';
|  47608 | The Space Merchants | SPCMERC1976 | 1976-00-00 |           19 | 216      | pb        | NOVEL     | 0345255968 | NULL           | $1.50     |    NULL
which is exactly what is currently displayed by the application. I wonder if it could be the record below or above this one? Ahasuerus 17:26, 27 Dec 2007 (CST)
I remember leaving the submission for later as it looked wrong to me, but it was gone before I came back to it. I think it changed pages from 158 to something much larger (possibly 216?) and was related to "eighth printing" but I couldn't see why. Sorry, I should have held it when I saw it. BLongley 17:42, 27 Dec 2007 (CST)
If I can believe my browser, it shows that I have only visited two entries for The Space Merchants -- the one I gave you, and the one I actually have in my possession (8th printing, Dec 1974). Therefore it must be the one I gave you -- which matches my recollection, and also matches Blongley's recollection. No clue why the data doesn't match this... The Dec 1974 definitely has $1.50 and 216 pages! Mgpb 18:45, 27 Dec 2007 (CST)
My browser says I've only visited these two:
  1. The Space Merchants, (Dec 1974 , C. M. Kornbluth, Frederik Pohl, Ballantine, 0-345-24290-4, $1.50, 216pp, pb) - [VERIFIED]
  2. The Space Merchants, (Sep 1976 , C. M. Kornbluth, Frederik Pohl, Ballantine, 0-345-25596-8, $1.50, 216pp, pb) Cover: Darrell K. Sweet
I daren't go check any more now, I might destroy evidence. :-/ BLongley 19:10, 27 Dec 2007 (CST)
I went back to a much older (September-Octoberer?) version of the database and it still says the same thing:
mysql> select * from pubs where pub_isbn like '0345255968';
+--------+---------------------+-------------+------------+--------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+------------+----------------+-----------+---------+
| pub_id | pub_title           | pub_tag     | pub_year   | publisher_id | pub_pages | pub_ptype | pub_ctype | pub_isbn   | pub_frontimage | pub_price | note_id |
+--------+---------------------+-------------+------------+--------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+------------+----------------+-----------+---------+
|  47608 | The Space Merchants | SPCMERC1976 | 1976-00-00 |           19 | 216     | pb        | NOVEL     | 0345255968 | NULL           | $1.50     |    NULL |
+--------+---------------------+-------------+------------+--------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+------------+----------------+-----------+---------+
so as far as I can tell, the 1976 record is fine. And it does make sense that the 1974-12 and the 1976-09 printings of the same edition would have the same page count and the same price. However, please note that both versions of the backup file have the date entered as 1976-00-00 while the current date is 1976-09-00, so something must have changed recently. Ahasuerus 20:35, 27 Dec 2007 (CST)
As a last suggestion, is it possible that the mysql server (mysqld) has the general query log turned on? If so, then knowing the time of modification, you could retrieve the exact SQL that was submitted. Better than that, the SQL submitted to the moderator approval queue seems (from cursory inspection) to only include those fields that are different (ie, changed) -- this would conclusively identify at least those fields that were considered to be altered. Now, why those fields (as I recall them) don't show a difference between then and now, I am at a loss. If we can't re-create the situation, we can only hope that someone will correct the data prior to verification. Mgpb 20:54, 27 Dec 2007 (CST)

(unindent)I downloaded today's backup file after it became available at 6:30pm ISFDB time. The submission in question reads: 

| sub_id | sub_state | sub_type | sub_data  | sub_time            | sub_reviewed        | sub_submitter | sub_reviewer | sub_reason | sub_holdid |
| 903148 | I         |        4 | <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1" ?>
<IsfdbSubmission>
  <PubUpdate>
    <Record>251906</Record>
    <Submitter>Mgpb</Submitter>
    <Subject>The Space Merchants</Subject>
    <Pages>216</Pages>
    <Price>$1.50</Price>
<Content>
<ContentTitle>
  <Record>1159</Record>
  <cPage>1</cPage>
</ContentTitle>
</Content>
  </PubUpdate>
</IsfdbSubmission>
 | 2007-12-27 12:37:19 | 2007-12-27 14:04:45 |         11093 |         2021 | NULL       |          0 |

So the updated publication record was 251906, which currently holds the 1974 edition of the book. I then restored the 2007-12-18 backup in a separate area and looked up publication ID 251906. It turns out that there was no Publication ID 251906 in the 2007-12-18 backup. In other words, record 251906 was created some time between 2007-12-18 and 2007-12-27. I don't have enough time to restore and analyze the 2007-12-24 backup that I have here, but it could give us more precise information. I then found all of your 85 submissions and only 2 of them contained the word "Merchants", the one listed above and a publication update for "The Merchants' War", which didn't modify the price field or the page count field.

At this point I think we have done all that we could. I have all of your submissions saved off in a text file in case we want to revisit them at a later point, but I won't be able to get back to it until some time after 2008-01-06 when I am back on the road. Ahasuerus 23:08, 27 Dec 2007 (CST)

Robert J. Sawyer's Hybrids"

I have approved the addition of the first Tor printing of Robert J. Sawyer's Hubrids, but then I noticed that we now have two apparently identical Tor printings in September 2003. Is it safe to assume that one of them can be deleted? Thanks! Ahasuerus 12:47, 2 Jan 2008 (CST)

You are correct, I believe. This came about because I fixated on the ISBN of the first (date unknown) entry when I went to see if I could verify the title. Thinking that additional data was better than verifying missing data, I made the new entry -- not noticing that it already existed one line further down on the previous screen. My oversight -- every time I do this, I learn a bit more about what not to do (sigh). I have already submitted the delete. Mgpb 17:25, 2 Jan 2008 (CST)
Approved, thanks! Don't worry too much about accidentally creating clones of existing publications, they are fairly easy to find programmatically later on, although it's harder when collections and other contents-heavy publications are involved. As long as the data is good, we will sort it out one way or another -- eventually :) Thanks for editing! Ahasuerus 17:40, 2 Jan 2008 (CST)

Willy Ley's Another Look at Atlantis

I'm going to accept your submission updating this pub, but have to add back the field that you overwrote. When adding contents to a NONFICTION record, do not overwrite the first set of fields. They represent the link to the title record. By overwriting it, a stray publication will be created, meaning a pub which has no associated title record. Just choose ADD TITLE and continue until you've added each of the contents. Normally I would just reject the submission, but you added so much new content, I'd hate to have you redo it all. Thanks for taking the time to add the contents to this pub. Mhhutchins 19:26, 6 Jan 2008 (CST)

Close to Critical by Hal Clement

Can you check to see if your verified edition of this novel states 2nd or 3rd printing? I'm holding an update from an editor who says this is the 3rd printing. Thanks. Mhhutchins 15:55, 14 Jan 2008 (CST)

Sorry for the delay in noticing your query -- my copy states that it is "Third Printing: July, 1975". Mgpb 09:00, 23 Jan 2008 (CST)

Great Short Novels of Adult Fantasy II

Is there any particular reason you chose to use reference number rather than the ISBN for this pub? The ISBN seems to work fine to me, e.g. leading me to this page. BLongley 16:30, 2 Feb 2008 (CST)

No, I would actually have preferred to use the ISBN instead of the Ballantine reference number -- but the existing entry already had the reference number in place, so I thought that making the least changes would be the better course of action. Perhaps it would have been better to use the ISBN and simply note the reference number in the notes? Mgpb 21:06, 2 Feb 2008 (CST)
That's right, that would be the preferred way of handling this situation. As our Help pages indicate, "If a publication has more than one number, then enter the one that seems most reasonable in the ISBN field but then also add a comment to the notes field about the various numbers and where they are located in the publication. For example, a book may have both an ISBN and a catalog number. In this case the ISBN would go in the ISBN field and you would make a note, for example, that the ISBN is on the spine and catalog number is on the front cover." We have to do this a lot with DAW books, which often have *two* catalog IDs (!) on top of regular ISBNs. Ahasuerus 21:35, 2 Feb 2008 (CST)
There are a few things in that publication that look peculiar. "The Woman in the Mirror" is a 22 page except and "The Repairer of Reputations" is a 36 page excerpt, yet both are listed as "novels". "The Lavender Dragon" is 100 pages long, so it may be a legitimate novel, but I'll check OCLC to see if it may be an excerpt as well. Ahasuerus 19:19, 2 Feb 2008 (CST)
Here I must plead that I am simply following the editor's (Carter) lead -- these are, after all, "Great Short Novels". What, normally, would excerpts from novels count as? Mgpb 21:06, 2 Feb 2008 (CST)
If an excerpt is less than 40,000 words long (the cutoff point for novels used by the Hugo/Nebula folks and us as per the pages), then they are entered as Short Fiction. If they retain the title used by the original novel, then we add "(excerpt)" to the end of the title to avoid confusion, a common practice when the publisher prints the first chapter of the next book in the series in the back of the previous book. If the title has been changed, then there is no need to add "(excerpt)", but we will want to add this information to the Notes field of both Title records so that our users could see the relationship. We have been discussing creating a new field for "relationships" over on ISFDB talk:Proposed Design Changes -- please feel free to to jump in :) Ahasuerus 21:35, 2 Feb 2008 (CST)
Also, "The Transmutation of Ling" is listed as a novel, but it's actually a novella which also appeared as chapter 1 in "The Wallet of Kai Lung". Bramah's bibliography, especially the Kai Lung series, is in pretty bad shape since, IIRC, it was one of the first series-heavy biblios that I did in 2006 while hunting for bugs in the Python code after the ISFDB-1-to-ISFDB-2 conversion. I need to go back and change a bunch of things to make it conform to our current standards. Ahasuerus 19:19, 2 Feb 2008 (CST)
I'll defer, certainly, to your research -- but I note that Carter makes it clear (in his introduction to "The Transmutation of Ling") that this story predates all the Kai Lung stories, and is not part of them. Mgpb 21:06, 2 Feb 2008 (CST)
Well, it first appeared in The Wallet of Kai Lung, so I wonder what Carter had in mind. Perhaps it was originally published in some magazine without the framing conceit of Kai Lung telling the story? Ahasuerus 21:35, 2 Feb 2008 (CST)
Comparing "The Wallet of Kai Lung" at gutenberg.org with my copy of "Great Short Novels of Adult Fantasy II", I see that the story/excerpt in question is seemingly/apparently just that -- an excerpt of Chapter I from the book. The framing (many pages) involving the intro and conclusion by Kai Lung is not present, and only the actual "Transmutation" story is present. Also, the "Wallet" was first published in 1900, which matches Carter's claim for the "Transmutation". He is very unclear about antecedents -- the copyright page merely states "The Transmutation of Ling was first published in Great Britain in 1900 and by the George H. Doran company of New York in 1900." No mention as to the publication it first appeared in. Carter's preface to the story simply notes "The Transmutation of Ling is a short novel written by Ernest Bramah back at the very beginning of his career. Like the glorious Kai Lung books that followed it, it leads us through an enchanted fairyland-China ..." If Carter is correct, this seems to indicate (as you suggest) that "Transmutation" may have been published separately in a serial, then subsequently incorporated in the first Kai Lung book by the addition of the framing (although a magazine appearance in 1900 followed by a book appearance the same year is astoundingly rapid). Without absolute knowledge, how should this be handled? Mgpb 09:56, 3 Feb 2008 (CST)
Hm, the plot is getting thicker! I can't check Carter's introduction at the moment since I am on the road and won't be reunited with my collection until mid-February, but I think we have enough information to create a half way decent bibliographic entry based on what we know. All sources apparently agree that it appeared, along with a framing story, as chapter 1 of The Wallet in 1900 and that its first standalone publication of Transmutation (as a chapbook) was in 1911. What is not clear is whether:
  • the 1911 standalone edition of Transmutation included the framing story; and
  • there had been another publication of the story preceding its appearance in The Wallet
The first question may not be easy to answer since the 1911 chapbook (and its 1912 US version) are fairly rare, but perhaps Google may help us. The second question may be answerable by consulting William White's "Ernest Bramah [Smith in Periodicals, 1890-1972", Bulletin of Bibliography, 32, no. 1 (1975), 33-34, 44], so I will post a request on the ISFDB:Verification requests page to see if anybody lives close to a library that has this issue. By the way, back ca. 1900 it wasn't altogether uncommon to publish a story in a periodical early in the year and then see it appear in a book later the same year. However, the first review of The Wallet was apparently published in "Bookman" in June of 1900, which makes it less likely that it had appeared in a magazine at the very beginning of 1900.
Anyway, thanks for all the legwork, I will reshuffle Bramah's page now :) Ahasuerus 14:13, 3 Feb 2008 (CST)
I finally took a stab at it earlier today and I think things look better now, although much remains to be done. Reconciling a couple of reprint collections shouldn't be too hard, but we still need to Clone the few publications that currently have Contents level data and then add publication level data from the currently existing Contents-less publications, which is tedious work. The most complicated part is deciding what is a novel and what is a collection since at least one Kai Lung novel (Kai Lung Unrolls His Mat) was latter cannibalized and individual body parts reprinted separately. For now, I made it a novel and added Notes to each reprint chapbook/collection to indicate its relationship with the original just like I added Notes to Transmutation. I am a bit burned out on Bramah at the moment, please feel free to continue chipping away at it if that was your plan :) Thanks! Ahasuerus 20:53, 4 Feb 2008 (CST)

The Golden Years of Science Fiction (Second Series)

Just a quick note that I have your The Golden Years of Science Fiction (Second Series) submission on hold and will work on it tomorrow. The problem is that you would like to change a number of titles and authors/pseudonyms in the Contents section of the publication. If I were to approve the submission, it would change the titles in all collections/anthologies/magazines where these stories appear -- see Help:Screen:EditPub#General contents. The right way to handle any changes to Contents that shouldn't affect other publications is by using the Remove option on the erroneous Title records, then entering the correct Titles and finally merging the newly entered titles with pre-existing ones (when applicable). It's somewhat time consuming and we would love to see the software changed to handle these situation better, but for now it's the only way to do it right. I'll fix the submission tomorrow and we should be OK, but please let me know if you have any questions about this gotcha. Thanks! Ahasuerus 00:16, 18 Feb 2008 (CST)

Yes, three questions about handling this if you have a moment. First, since I seem to run into problems along this line with some regularity (complexities that throw me and cause more work for moderators), I am forced to ask if the net results of my contributions (beyond verifications) is positive? You aren't going to be hurting my feelings if you tell me this is causing more moderator effort than is warranted by the new information (which would presumably show up eventually from some other source anyway) -- I'd be happy to simply verify pubs if you like. Second, is the step I am missing essentially a) noticing a title variant BEFORE starting to edit the pub and b) following the link on the title BEFORE starting to edit the pub and seeing that it is used in multiple places? Because my normal procedure (seemingly not optimal here) is to notice that something is missing (such as page numbers, or ISBN) in the pub record, start editing the pub, and only then do I notice a buried detail such as the title variant (such as "The Weapons Shop" instead of "The Weapon Shop"). Internally to the physical book in my hand, there is no evidence that "The Weapon Shop" is anything but a typo on the part of the previous data submitter, thus my blithely changing it to be consistent with my book. This is the point that I cause problems, no? Same thing goes with the author of "Mimic" -- my book clearly and consistently states (copyright page, TOC, and story title) that the author is DAW -- no mention whatsoever of "Martin Pearson". Looking back at the original pub display, I see that the story is listed as Auth=DAW (as by Martin Pearson), but not having noticed that originally, I can't figure it out on the edit pub page as that only lists Auth=Martin Pearson (with NO mention of DAW) -- so clearly I should have simply let well enough alone on that story, as DAW was already correctly credited up one level in the pub display, right? And third (and last!), just to make sure I've got a grip on this -- the author change of adding Asimov to the introduction (in my book, the Intro is signed "The Editors", so I felt it warranted) is presumably not cause for concern, as clearly the Intro is specific to this volume and does not appear in any other pub. Mgpb 09:22, 18 Feb 2008 (CST)
To answer the first question, I wouldn't worry about the extra load on the moderators. I see that you have created a little over a hundred submissions so far and most editors do not get to the point where they are self-sufficient until they have around a thousand submissions under their belts. And even then some editors (or even moderators) may have trouble when they return after an extended hiatus or if they venture into a previously unexplored part of the database. Your struggles -- much as we would like to minimize the learning curve -- are at this point perfectly natural and moderators expect them. Just make sure to post any questions that you may have over on the Help Desk and they will be answered. That's why we are here! :)
You are quite right re: the second point, the key here is to determine whether the Contents title that you are about to change has appeared in other books/magazines as well. Always keep in mind that you are not just changing the appearance of the story in the current publication, you are changing ALL appearances of this story under that title. Let's see if I can explain what's going on here a little better.
To use "Mimic" as an example, like many early 1940s Wollheim stories, it first appeared under the "Martin Pearson" byline. There were 2 reasons why Wollheim used this pseudonym extensively. First, he was a magazine editor at the time and publishing too many of your own stories in "your" magazines was considered bad for business. Second, even when he was selling stories to other magazines, Wollheim occasionally had more than one story per issue and it was a basic rule of pulp publishing not to have more than one story by the same author in the same issue, so one would appear as by Wollheim and the other as by Pearson. A few years later, when Wollheim and others began editing SF anthologies, most of the Pearson stories were reprinted as by "Martin Pearson", but subsequent reprints usually credited "Donald A. Wollheim". It's not always easy to tell when a particular story was reprinted as by "Pearson" and when it appeared as by "Wollheim", although, as a general rule, the "Pearson" byline disappeared by the mid-1970s.
Similarly, many stories that were pseudonymously published by the likes of Heinlein, Kuttner/Moore, Hubbard, etc in the 1940s-1950s were later reprinted using their real names, but we can't always be sure when the transition occurred and some of our records are wrong until somebody verifies them -- which is what happened here.
The way we handle these issues is very similar to the way we handle variant titles, i.e. stories/novels that have appeared under different titles: we set up two separate records, one for each version of the story. In this case, we have one record for "Mimic" as by Martin Pearson and another record for "Mimic" as by Donald A. Wollheim. The first record is used for the original magazine publication and all subsequent reprints that credited "Pearson". The second record is used for all reprint publications that credited "Wollheim". The two records are linked via a "variant title" relationship, which allows them to display as a linked pair on Wollheim's bibliography page.
If your submission had been approved, it would have changed the authorship of the "Martin Pearson" record to "Donald A. Wollheim" and then it would be impossible to tell which appearance of the story was as by "Pearson" and which one as by "Wollheim". Instead I first removed the "Pearson" record from the publication (using the Remove Title option in the navigation bar on the left) since Remove doesn't affect the title, it simply dissociates it from the publication. I then added a new "Mimic" as by Donald A. Wollheim record to the Contents section of the publication and finally merged the newly created "Wollheim" record with the pre-existing "Wollheim" record -- see Help on merging titles for details. I used the same logic to remove/add the van Vogt story and the Hugi/Russell story. I had to do some other things to the Hugi/Russell story since it's an oddball of sorts: one author (Russell) writing as another author (Hugi, who was a real, albeit obscure, writer), but that's a topic for another discussion ;-)
Does this make sense? (And you are quite right about the Greenberg/Asimov change since the introduction has appeared in only one publication.) Ahasuerus 14:44, 18 Feb 2008 (CST)
Yes, all you say is clear and coherent. Thanks for the encouragement. I recognize that part of the problem is lack of practice, but I think too that the system is quite complex -- it does a lot, and I recognize the enormous amount of selfless effort involved, -- but the system, evolved over years of tacking on functionality, is very complex, with a lot of workarounds to address various difficulties. Presumably this is much of the learning curve. Part of the problem (for you moderators with such as me) is that sometimes it is hard to even realize that I am having a problem, or trodding on a delicate spot in the system. Mgpb 09:30, 19 Feb 2008 (CST)
It's true that the system is quite complex and has evolved over the last 12 years, but, unfortunately, much of the complexity is inherent in the subject matter. If you read the MARC21 bibliographic standard or the OCLC guidelines for entering bibliographic data, you will see that professional bibliographers have to handle a great deal more complexity than we do here. We tried to strip it down to the bare essentials (while beefing up the parts that our users are more likely to be interested in), but it's still quite complicated. With one part time programmer working on the project (and a few of us writing data cleanup scripts), we are unlikely to implement the kinds of seamless integration and foolproofing mechanisms that places like Yahoo and Google have created any time soon, so the best we can do is to guide new editors through the process to the best of our ability. Ahasuerus 10:41, 19 Feb 2008 (CST)
Thanks! I will persevere. It is very helpful in your explanations when you include links to relevant sections of the Help documents.
One last minor question: is it allowable/good for me to now verify the updated pub record since it now matches my hardcopy? Or would it be better to leave it to the independent perusal of a future verifier? Mgpb 09:30, 19 Feb 2008 (CST)
Feel free to verify any records that match your hard copy! If and when another editor comes along with the same copy and finds a discrepancy, he (it's almost always a "he" around here for some reason) will leave you a message on your Talk page and then you can chat to see if you have slightly different copies or if his copy is less/more complete, etc. Thanks again for editing! :) Ahasuerus 10:41, 19 Feb 2008 (CST)
Yes, please DO persevere! It's far better that we have editors that ask questions, learn, and carry on than editors that quit after the first problem (or second... or third...) - the help may be a little outdated at times as there's always some rule being argued about - sorry, "discussed" - and we even get new features and tools added occasionally that disrupt all sorts of things. But generally the data improves, the work gets easier, and all sorts of good things. Stick with us and we'll stick with you! BLongley 15:26, 19 Feb 2008 (CST)
Kind words all, thank you! I must say this is a congenial environment, which I appreciate. Once more into the breech! :) Mgpb 17:12, 19 Feb 2008 (CST)

A Yank at Valhalla

Just a note to the effect that I have approved the changes to A Yank at Valhalla / The Sun Destroyers, but then changed the date of A Yank at Valhalla from 1940-00-00 back to 1973-03-00. To quote Help:Screen:NewPub:

  1. Books: If a work has been serialized in a magazine, there may be a difference in textual content between the first magazine publication and the first book publication. "Skylark of Valeron (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1195)", for example, appeared as a magazine serialization in 1933-4, but was not published in book form until 1949. In these cases, record the first book publication date. A note in the title field can record the magazine serialization date, if there is one.
  2. Magazines: Serial installments of a work are always given the date of the magazine in which they appear even if the work has been published previously in book or serial form. Novel length works (40,000+ words) printed as a single installment in a magazine are treated as serials and given the date of the issue in which they appear; the Title Type is "Serial" and the text "(Complete Novel)", preceded by a space, is appended to the title.

It's a very common gotcha, everybody runs into it sooner or later :) Ahasuerus 23:19, 29 Mar 2008 (CDT)

I just approved Supernatural Horror in Literature. You had very nice note in the comments. Thank you! To add to this thread. Often times when adding/verifying a publication where the copyright page mentions prior-printing data I'll check to see if ISFDB already has a record for that prior-printing. If not, and sometimes, if so, I'll add a note to the title record for the story that is essentially a copy/paste from the copyright statement "First appearance in ..." and then follow it with "(source: The name/edition of the publication I got the data from.)" Doing this is entirely optional but my thinking is that it provides confidence that the reprinted story is in fact the same as the original (possibly a variant title but still the same story). and it provides for a verified bibliographic record of when it was believed the story first appeared. Marc Kupper (talk) 15:56, 5 Apr 2008 (CDT)

The Complete John Silence Stories

Just a note that our database supports roman numerals in the Page count field, so I have changed "246" to "x+246" as per OCLC. I have also put all John Silence stories and the collection in a new Series. Thanks! Ahasuerus 03:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Empire of the East

Your verified pub claims to be 1979, but also a reprint of the July 1980 edition. Which is it? Also, can you add the contents please - there's some doubts about the name of the third book, and also about whether there's a Larry Niven introduction. BLongley 09:32, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Prince of Peril

I've updated your verified publication

  • I changed the title from The Prince of Peril to Prince of Peril as there is no leading "The"
  • I changed the cover artist credit from "Roy G. Krenkel" to "Roy Krenkel, Jr." We credit titles and artists as stated in the publications.
  • I added a note about the printing date as it's not stated and there is no source for the 1964 date stated in the ISFDB record. 1964 may be correct - we just don't know until we can locate a secondary source that seems reliable.
  • I added a cover image. Marc Kupper (talk) 04:57, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Tuck says 1963, which seems reasonable enough. Record updated. Ahasuerus 05:16, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Two Images

In verifying my copies. I noticed the images were missing on Igniting the Reaches. Is this for me. [9]. Man-Kzin Wars VI. [10]. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 12:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Maza of the Moon

On checking my copy against your verification I noticed that it states on the copyright page 'Cover and interior art by Frank Frazetta'. I think an interiorart contribution is called for. Tuck's gives a publication date of 1965 and Worldcat confirms that, though my copy has no printing date. Here is the cover. [11] . Thanks, Harry

The Merchant's War

In verifying my copy against yours I found this image and added it. Please check and confirm at your convenience. Feel free to bounce me against the wall. Thanks, Harry --Dragoondelight 21:55, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

The Port of Peril

On checking my copy against yours, I added the price, notes and an illustration credit to the data. Please check. [12] . Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 12:36, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Kothar and the Conjurer's Curse.

In verifying my copy I found the title record spelled Conjurer wrong. I submitted a correction and then had to edit the publication record you verified to correct the spelling there. Being there I added the page number the novel starts on and the cover image. Please check and advise if there are any problems with this. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:58, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

The World at the End of Time

This. [13] . In checking my copy I found the cover image and added it to the record. Any problems give me a ring. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 21:18, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Flatlander

I have a 4th printing of this collection FLTLNDR1995 which has "First Edition: June 1995" on the copyright page, but don't want to add this to the verified record if it's not present on a first printing. If it isn't I'll clone and put the month data in the notes. --Bluesman 19:25, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

World at the End of Time

Added $C price to BKTG13651 .--Bluesman 22:34, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

The Best of Walter M. Miller, Jr.

FYI, I have added the following note to your verified Pocket edition of The Best of Walter M. Miller, Jr.: "First printing as per the number line. Cover art not credited and the signature on the cover is illegible." Ahasuerus 00:25, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

After comparing with the signature on Communipath Worlds, changed the note to "Cover art not credited, but there is a truncated signature ("McA") on the cover, which is assumed to stand for "Mara McAfee" and adjusted the cover artist accordingly. Ahasuerus 01:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Georgia On MY Mind

Added month of publication to GRGNMMND1995 . It was stated on the copyright page of the 1st trade paper edition.--Bluesman 16:00, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Also changed the title from "Georgia On My Mind, and Other Places" to "Georgia on My Mind and Other Places" as per the Locus Index - hope it matches the physical copy! Ahasuerus 03:02, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Warrior of Llarn-added items

Ths. [14] . In verifying my copy against your verification, I found and submitted the cover art, illustration credit in contents section, and added notes from the book and notation that Tuck agrees with your verification. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 15:25, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

True Names

Added the month of publication (from the copyright page) and $C price and that it was a stated first edition to TRUENAMES2001.--Bluesman 05:03, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

The current pub has a note that says: "Despite previous note for this title, the only included fiction is Vinge's novella True Names." This is incorrect. I have this book, and Stallman's "The Right to Read" is a story, with characters and dialog. A rather didactic story, true, almost an essay in the form of a story, but then that could be said of 1984 or Animal Farm or Fahrenheit 451 or many other well-known works of fiction. I am changing this to a short story. -DES Talk 05:28, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
I have changed the type of "The Right to Read", and edited the pub note accordingly. -DES Talk 05:33, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Flashing Swords #4

I've added the cover artist to this book that you verified. --Gloinson 02:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Retief's War

Found POWERS' signature on the cover (bottom right corner) of your verified pub RTFSWRDFDG1967 and added it to the record. Cheers! ~Bill, --Bluesman 17:12, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

A Galaxy of Strangers-added notes & change to Introduction Title.

This. [15] . I checked my copy against yours and found the Introduction was missing text. I submitted it in full, will delete previous, and added notes. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 16:03, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

The Nitrogen Fix

Added the individual interior art pieces to THNTRGNFXR1981 and notes to explain them. ~Bill, --Bluesman 18:49, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Ocean on Top

Added the interior art to CNNTPDLRTL1973 and notes to that effect. ~Bill, --Bluesman 20:54, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Through the Eye of a Needle

Added the map you mention in THRGHTHFND1978 as interior art as well as the "Apology" essay. ~Bill, --Bluesman 21:19, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Greylorn

Found Powers' signature on the cover of MLO545. Added that to the record with a note. --Bluesman 00:36, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

The Demu Trilogy-added notation

This. [16]. I added notation, including that Vincent Di Rate is only credited from signature. I also changed the story page numbers to reflect their actual location. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

The Changing Land-added notes

This. [17] . I added notes to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 15:23, 1 February 2009 (UTC) Sorry, I added a couple more notes. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 12:29, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Redliners---added cover art/notation

This. [18]. I added the cover and notation from my copy which matches your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 00:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Patriots-added author's note/notation

This: [19]. I added the Author's note, changed pagination and added notation. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 21:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

The Voyage-added notation/deleted artist last name as not used.

This. [20]. I added notation and deleted your use of the artitst's last name as not being used. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 21:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Flashing Swords #2-added cover/notation

This. [21]. I added the classic cover and notation. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 14:48, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Flashing Swords #3-added notation/changed title of introduction

This. [22]. I added notation and changed the introduction by Lin Carter to read as it is printed. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 15:06, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

The time Patrol

Added a cover image to THTMPTRLXP1991 --Bluesman 04:02, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Voyage From Yesteryear---added cover/ notation

This. [23]. I submitted a new cover image matching my copy which matches your ver. Added notation. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 00:14, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Endgame Enigma

Added a cover image to your verified BKTG06342 that matches my copy of the same 1st edition. --MartyD 12:23, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

All the Weyrs of Pern

Added a cover image to [[24]] --Bluesman 16:18, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Sword and Sorceress V

Added some notes and a cover image to your verified SWRDNDSRCRSS51988 based on my 1st printing copy that matched all of the other information in the entry. --MartyD 12:30, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Spellsinger- added cover/notation

This. [25]. I added a cover image matching my copy to your ver and notation. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 16:04, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

The Proteus Operation

Added a cover image and a 1st-edition note to your verified BKTG06359 that matches my copy of the 1st edition, which in turn matches the entry point for point. I notice now that Locus1 lists the pub date as Sep '86, which is in contrast to the actual book, so I will add another note to that effect after the other additions are approved. --MartyD 12:43, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

The Port of Peril

Added a cover image to THPRTFPRLF1949 --Rtrace 14:01, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

The Shield of Time

Added a cover image to [[26]] --Bluesman 21:45, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Retief and the Rascals- added cover image/excerpt/notation

Afternoon. This [27] . I added a cover image/ excerpt and notation in accordance with my copy match to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 21:01, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Duncton Wood

I added a cover image to your verified pub DNCTNWDSFD1980--Rtrace 02:54, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Swords and Sorceress VI-- added cover/notation

Good Morning!. This. [28] . I added a cover and notation matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 15:05, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Star Loot- replaced bad cover link/added notation/ illustration credit

Morning. This. [29]. I replaced the bad cover link with a cover image matching my copy and added notation and illustration credit as per my copy match of your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 14:44, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Web of the Witch World -- cover image, notes, interiorart

Hi. I added this image to your verified WBOWTCHW1968 that matches my copy of the same edition. I also added an INTERIORART credit to Jack Gaughan from the copyright page (and JGs on the drawings) and some notes about the Ace Image Library's dating. --MartyD 00:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

World of Ptavvs

I am updating your verified pub World of Ptavvs to change the frontispiece name to 'Thrint' and adding a second interior art record of 'Bandersnatch' for the back cover interior in order to document these 'approved' artists renditions by name. (Similar artwork appears in Neutron Star and Ringworld printings from the same era) - Thanks Kevin 21:26, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

The Anarch Lords - added cover/notation

Morning. This. [30] . I added a cover image and notation after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:30, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

The Arsenal of Miracles / Endless Shadow (Ace Double F-299)

I replaced a broken cover image for your verified pub ARSNLS1964 Thanks. --Rtrace 04:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Space by the Tale

I added information about the cover artist to this verified pub. The cover clearly signed in the lower left corner. Willem H. 14:29, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Wielding a Red Sword and For Love of Evil

I added the author's notes to these two verified pubs. Willem H. 10:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

The Fleet 01 added cover/notation

Afternoon! This . [31] . I added a cover and notation after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 19:53, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Canticle for Leibowitz

Added a cover image and a note to [[32]] I am certain of the image, but the artist's signature does not match the one in the record. The second and third printings had a different cover, as did the SFBC edition. Could yours be one of those? --Bluesman 00:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The Knight and Knave of Swords

I added page numbers to the contents for your verified pub THKNGHTNDK1990 Thanks. --Rtrace 21:40, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Guardians of the West

I added a cover image to your verified pub BKTG02456 Thanks. --Rtrace 01:59, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

The Cradle of Saturn -- cover image

I added this image to your verified The Cradle of Saturn. --MartyD 13:51, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

The Giants Novels -- cover

I added this image to your transient verified The Giants Novels. --MartyD 22:07, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

The Mirror Maze -- cover image

I added this image to your verified The Mirror Maze. --MartyD 00:39, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Paths to Otherwhere -- cover image

I added this image to your verified Paths to Otherwhere. --MartyD 01:07, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Added gutter code

I added a gutter code to your verified [33].Don Erikson 05:29, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Demon Lord of Karanda / The Seeress of Kell

Corrected the cover artist and added some notes to this verified pub. Also added the cover artist and some notes to this one. Thanks, Willem H. 08:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Prostho Plus - added cover/noation

Morning! This [34]. I added notation/cover image after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:04, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Wyndham's Re-Birth

You verified this pub of Wyndham's Re-Birth. Another editor has recorded this other pub. The two look very similar, but may be different printings. Can you check your copy to see how closely it matches the other pub record? -DES Talk 14:24, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

A World Out of Time - added cover art/notation

Afternoon! This. [35]. I added cover art and notation after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 23:02, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Swords and Deviltry questions

First question: In working with my copy of the November 1973 (2nd) printing of Swords and Deviltry, I see the Author's Introduction (Swords and Deviltry) is dated 1970. But in my copy, that introduction is signed "Fritz Leiber, San Francisco, June 4, 1973". So I'm thinking it can't be 1970. Does your verified SWRDSNDDVC1973 by any chance say the same thing?

I changed the date to 1973-11-00, the date of the 2nd printing. If your copy suggests something different, let me know. --MartyD 11:25, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Second question: Does your copy say anything about which printing it is?

Thanks. --MartyD 10:42, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

I own another copy of the second printing, so here are the answers: First question: Yes, the introduction is dated June 4, 1973, so the change is correct.
Second question: My copy states on the copyright page: "Second Ace Printing: November 1973". Willem H. 14:34, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

For Love of Evil

I added this cover scan to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 14:26, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Northworld and Northworld: Justice

I added this cover scan to this verified pub and this cover scan to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 12:41, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

King of the Murgos

I added this cover scan to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 15:47, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorceress of Darshiva

I added this cover scan to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 15:30, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Demon Lord of Karanda

I added this cover scan to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 15:34, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Code of the Lifemaker

I added this cover scan to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 12:41, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

The Seeress of Kell

I added this cover scan to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 06:05, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Wielding a Red Sword

I added this cover scan to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 19:50, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

The Fall of the Republic - added cover/notation

Morning! This. [36]. I added a cover image, [37], and notation after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 15:08, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Memoirs of a Spacewoman

I added this cover scan to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 10:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

For Love of Evil - added notation

Morning! This. [38]. I added notation after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:45, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Sixth Column - added artist/notation

Morning! This. [39]. I added the cover artist and notation after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 14:46, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Clash of the Titans - added notation

Afternoon! This. [40]. I added notation after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 21:25, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Science Fiction Writers

I have modified your verified Science Fiction Writers to change the editor name from Everett F. Bleiler to E. F. Bleiler. We use the name spelled "as is" on the title page. I have a 4th printing and believe it's unlikely they would have changed the name.

Also, you listed your copy as $55. Is this stated on the publication? If not, then what was your source? My copy does not have a dust wrapper but rather has "board" covers like a text book. --Marc Kupper|talk 03:49, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

The Swords of Lankhmar

I added the author's note, the map and a note to this verified pub, to match my copy. Thanks, Willem H. 20:02, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

The Knight and Knave of Swords

I added some notes to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 21:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Martian Knightlife - added cover image/notation

Morning! This. [41]. I added a cover image, [42], and notation after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 14:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Realtime Interrupt

I added some notes to your verified Realtime Interrupt and replaced the LZZZZZZZ image with this identical one, all based on my copy of the same first printing. --MartyD 11:59, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Added cover for Spellsinger Dana Carson 10:49, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Chandler covers

Replaced the amazon scan on your verified The Anarch Lords and also on Star Loot. Hauck 11:42, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

World of Ptavvs 2

I added this cover scan to this verified pub to replace this Amazon link. Thanks, --Willem 14:46, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

The Multiplex Man

Replaced the amazon scan on your verified here. Hauck 17:15, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

The Two faces of tomorrow

Added a scan and note to your verified here. Hauck 12:29, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Galactic Odyssey

Replaced the scan and added note to your verified here and for The Lighter Side. Hauck 14:45, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Galactic Derelict

Just a note that User:Majackson added a note to your verified publication, which, after massaging, reads: "Combined SBN-price line reads "44127228125". Ahasuerus 02:07, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Time Traders II - notes/image

Afternoon! This. [43]. I added notation and saved image to db after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 19:18, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Georgia on My Mind and Other Places

Replaced the scan and added note to your verified Georgia on My Mind and Other Places. Hauck 12:38, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Darkness and Dawn

I added your verified pub Darkness and Dawn to the Classics of Science Fiction publication series. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 23:51, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

The Galactic Gourmet

I added some notes to this verified pub to match my copy. Thanks, --Willem H. 20:10, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

cover for Merlin's Godson

I added [44] this image to your verified Merlin's Godson. --MartyD 01:56, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

The Shield of Time cover image

I replaced the Amazon UK cover image with an actual cover scan image of your verified The Shield of Time. AndonSage 07:35, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Laumer's Galactic Odyssey

I expanded the note on your verified pub Galactic Odyssey to indicate it was Tor's first printing... but not the overall first printing. I also added the pub to the A Jim Baen Presentation Publication Series as shown on the title page. - Thanks Kevin 18:37, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

The Commodore at Sea/Spartan Planet

Hi, I changed the note you gave for The Commodore at Sea/Spartan Planet (Ace, unknown) into The invalid ISBN 0-441-11556-3 is the actual number printed on the book's back cover, spine and front cover show 0-441-11556-X. Worldcat has an ISBN-less but connecting 1981 edition. --Dirk P Broer 12:56, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

The Shores of Another Sea

I repaired the link to the Amazon.co.uk picture for The Shores of Another Sea (Crown) for you. --Dirk P Broer 11:23, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Worlds of Weird

I changed the version of the Long story "Giants in the Sky" that appears in Worlds of Weird, to the variant without the Jr. on his name, as it appears in the book. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 16:44, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Science Fiction: What it's All About

Replaced amazon cover for your verified here. Hauck 18:48, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Prostho Plus cover image

I replaced the default Amazon cover image with a scanned image for your verified Prostho Plus. AndonSage 05:41, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

The Jungle - David Drake

I merged your verified (2008-05-16) publication "The Jungle/ Clash by Night" with The Jungle with Clash by Night. It looks like there were two records in the system, and the other record had more detail and the correct title. Feel free to add your verification to the new merged record, because I can't manually move it. Thanks Kevin 16:56, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Dragonfly

I added some notes to Durbin's Dragonfly. Previously the notes stated "October 1999". However, Locus gives the month as July, 1999 and I have updated the record to reflect that as well. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 03:20, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Lest Darkness Fall cover image added

I scanned my copy of Lest Darkness Fall / To Bring the Light and submitted the image. Thanks. Jmaloney 18:33, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Expanded the notes for The Restaurant at the End of the Universe. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 01:29, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Honor of the Regiment

Added notes to Honor of the Regiment. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:12, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

The Unconquerable

For The Unconquerable, added notes & changed "Endings" author credit to match title page. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:25, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Lest Darkness Fall / To Bring the Light

I added "First printing" on copyright page and Cover artist credited on copyright page to the notes for http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?20229 Lest Darkness Fall / To Bring the Light. Bob 17:17, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

The Commodore at Sea / Spartan Planet

I added a cover scan to this verified pub. --Willem H. 20:10, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Shadow of the Giant Page Count

I changed the pages in Shadow of the Giant from 363 to 367, to match my copy in hand. The last page of the Acknowledgements has a printed page number. Thanks Kevin 15:43, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Clash of the Titans

Re: Clash of the Titans
Adding artist. Signature found on full movie poster here.--Astromath 23:21, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Some Summer Lands

just added cover image to Some Summer Lands. O'Fearna 02:43, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Mirror Maze - Hogan

Added LCCN and OCLC links to http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?44184. SFJuggler 05:04, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [45].Don Erikson 20:16, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Space Merchants

Added notes, links and cover scan to The Space Merchants. SFJuggler 05:55, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I added the Canadian price to your verified

I added the Canadian price to your verified [46] &[47].Don Erikson 20:29, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

The Military Dimension

The existing cover art shot no longer displays for http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?44147. I will upload a scan of my copyProf beard 13:32, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Man-Kzin Wars VIII: Choosing Names

REplaced Amazon link with scan of verified copy http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?6959 Prof beard 12:28, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Jerry Pournelle's Starswarm

Replaced the Amazon image of Jerry Pournelle's Starswarm with one I scanned. Yours is the only Primary verification. Doug 13:38, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Interface for Murder

Added notes to Interface for Murder.SFJuggler 01:34, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Magician's Gambit

I am uploading an image of the 1st edition. Rns1963 20:48, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Darkness and Dawn

I added a cover scan for the Hyperion Darkness and Dawn MOHearn 13:19, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Igniting the Reaches

I just added some notes to your verified copy of this book. MLB 05:08, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

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