User talk:Marc Kupper

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Notice - Limited time on ISFDB - At times I may go a few days without checking ISFDB but usually do so at least every two to three weeks. Please go ahead and leave messages but don't take it personally if I seem to ignore the message for a few days to weeks.

A note to new ISFDB Editors: Click here or the "+" tab at the top of this page to send a message to me. You sign the note with ~~~~ (four tidles) which the wiki system will translate into your logged in name plus the date/time. Thank you. ~Marc

Contents

Archives of this talk page

Open items, March 2008, October 2008, February 2009, August 2009

Hunter of Worlds

Scanned in a cover image, added the interior art and slightly expanded the notes for [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 15:09, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks - as it is, I never marked it as verified in my DB. --Marc Kupper|talk 21:31, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Garan the Eternal

Another piece of the DAW puzzle: the verified record of [this], by Mr. Longley, has the printing statement as one of those "First printing/second printing/..." types that were around in the very early editions. I just picked up a first CDN copy that has simply "First Printing, March, 1973". I have yet to see a single copy with the previous style of printing statement and am pretty sure the CDN printings never used that format. FYI ~Bill, --Bluesman 17:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you and am pretty sure Canadian copies never used the spelled out "number line." I am surprised though that your March 1973 book does not have a number line. --Marc Kupper|talk 09:05, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Likewise, but then I don't have that many early DAWs, though I'm not sure. Do you have some kind of spread sheet yet that lists maybe the first couple of years? Maybe something like the SFBC pages, with columns for US & CDN printings. A lot of patterns are much easier to see that way. I know that WillemH has quite a number of DAWs, he figured over 450, and could probably add some data. ~Bill, --Bluesman 20:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
The first CDN DAW with a number line seems to be in April '73. I have #45 & #48 without and #51 & 53 with a number line. None previous to #51, and I find I have 15 CDN printings and about 10 US, have a printing line. ~Bill, --Bluesman 21:59, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I have a spreadsheet and just used the "mail user" function. If you get the e-mail then you can reply back and I'll e-mail it to you. Another option is I can post it on a web site. --Marc Kupper|talk 21:40, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Got your e-mail and responded, then realized your 'spam' filter might boot the message as my e-mail address starts with a number. FYI ~Bill, --Bluesman 01:14, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
My filters auto-whitelist anything that mentions what I call "interesting words." That includes ISFDB. They get dropped into a folder named "Possibly interesting mail from strangers." You should have the spreadsheet by now. --Marc Kupper|talk 05:20, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

The Nine Billion Names of God 5th printing - difference

Morning! This. [1]. I have the same printing and everything matches except I have "Encounter at Dawn", not "Encounter in the Dawn" as does the 11th printing. Please check. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 15:19, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Good eye. This will take a while to check as the book is mis-filed. I've changed the name to "Encounter at Dawn" and I'll park this in the queue to re-check when my copy resurfaces. --Marc Kupper|talk 21:24, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Tactics of Mistake -- cover image

I added this image to your verified Tactics of Mistake. Discovered it while looking for the cover of a different edition. It has the same catalogue number and price as cited in the entry. --MartyD 10:43, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I have put it on hold until Marc gets a chance to check the cover. Ahasuerus 17:18, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks - I had the book right on my desk. :-) Update approved. The reason for the OCLC note is that the catalog # is on the cover, ISBN is on the spine, and there is no barcode. --Marc Kupper|talk 06:10, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

The Overlords of War -- Cover image

On The Overlords of War the amazon cover image link was broken. I found a working link based on the notes you left. I copied the image at that link, uploaded it to the wiki, and linked it to the pub record. Please double check that this is the correct cover. -DES Talk 21:59, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Kiernan story in Mammoth Book of Best New Horror, Volume Twelve

I had a submission that wanted to make variants of two slightly different titles of Caitlin R. Kiernan's story in this anthology. Can you check your verified copy of this book to see how the story is titled? (It originally didn't have the parenthetical phrase or was spelled "Waterworks". I can't recall which.) I merged all of the titles under this one because it matched OCLC records. Locus1 gives the year in the title as "1988" which doesn't match any OCLC records so I'm pretty sure they're wrong. Thanks. MHHutchins 05:26, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

My book has In the Water Works (Birmingham, Alabama 1888) on the copyright, table of contents, and story title page. The page headers use In the Water Works. I double checked that the publication uses "Water Works" and not "Waterworks" and that it's 1888. --Marc Kupper|talk 08:54, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Grant story in The Giant Book of Best New Horror

Can you check to see if "One Life in an Hourglass" in this anthology may have a comma in the title? I'm holding a submission which wants to make it a variant of the record that does have a comma, and I wanted to be sure before I accepted it. Thanks. MHHutchins 23:40, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

It looks like that one is misplaced. I remember pulling it out to look something up meaning it must be in the room... I approved the VT. I suspect my copy has the comma and if so, I'll merge it back. Fortunately, it seems the story only appeared in the anthology I have meaning the merge-back will be straightforward. --Marc Kupper|talk 06:57, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Added cover credit

I added cover credit for verified [2] from the book THE ART OF RICHARD POWERS by Jane Frank and made a note of it.Don Erikson 05:41, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Community Portal archive link

We actually already had a link to the archives -- when the link to the Development page was added, it was placed below the archive link. I have removed the redundant link.

FYI subpage links are enabled or disabled on a namespace by namespace basis. I suspect we have just accepted the default, which disables such in the "Project" namespace. Al or Ahasuerus could, i think, change this for any particular namespace, but it may not be worth the trouble. -DES Talk 14:35, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

That odd - yep, there it is. I thought I did a search for the word "Archive" using FireFox but maybe I did a visual scan in the normal places and did not spot it tucked in above Development. I thought it was surprising the Archive link was missing as I knew it used to be there. I then checked the past couple of archives to see if someone had accidentally archived the archive-link...
Thanks for the heads up on the sub-page links. I thought I knew the syntax though am surprised it's /name vs. the more intuitive ./name as ../name is supported. --Marc Kupper|talk 01:13, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

The Martian Chrnicles - artist Ian Miller

Morning! This. [3]. Just to enliven our days I have the 60th above and you have the 61st, [4]. Problem is we have the same artist, though the art has changed. Would you please check your cover for a signature. My notes have what I found, which gives me some doubt that it is Ian Miller. Cheers. I forgot yours is probably stored, so I hope you have a small tbr list, there is NO hurry, as apparently the rules state that no matter the signature we must use the copyright page. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:16, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I have that one handy along with the 42nd printing[5] which has different artwork. There's no signature on the cover of the 61st printing. The 60th printing is definitely Ian Miller work and the 61st is almost sure not to be. I've e-mailed Ian to see if he has ideas on the 61st.
"as apparently the rules state that no matter the signature we must use the copyright page" I added a note explaining why it's likely to not be an Ian Miller work. --Marc Kupper|talk 04:00, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 19:50, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Destiny's Road

Added a note about artist credits to [this] and scanned in a cover image to replace the ZZZZZZZZZ one. ~Bill, --Bluesman 04:07, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Perilous Dreams

Added a note to [this] re: Contento listing it under the wrong publisher (has ACE for some reason??) Sent an e-mail to the site. ~Bill, --Bluesman 00:08, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

ACE Dbl d-381

Added second artist courtesy ACE Image Library (with note) to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 03:18, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Approved as part of other arcane manipulations; please note that Emsh's name has been expanded to "Ed Emshwiller". Ahasuerus 04:04, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
"Arcane Manipulations"?¿?¿ Didn't know I could do those.... ;-) ~Bill, --Bluesman 01:44, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

The Gentle Giants of Ganymede - added cover/notation

Afternoon! This. [6]. I added a cover image, [7], and notation. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 19:48, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Three Against the Witch World

Scanned in anew image and added notes to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 01:41, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

The Overlords of War - Artist uncredited?

Morning! This. [8]. I seem to have the same copy, but my copyright page has "Cover art by Karel Thole" and the illustration opposite the title page has "Jg" at bottom right. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 14:49, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

The Gods Themselves -- cover image

I added this image to your transient-verified The Gods Themselves, matching my copy of the same edition. --MartyD 17:25, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

The Day of the Klesh - added notation/contents

Morning! This. [9]. I added notation and a contents entry for interior art after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 13:56, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

A Science Fiction Argosy

You have a secondary verification of this pub. My copy has The Cure is by Kuttner and Moore rather than Padgett. Apology To Inky is by Robert M. Green, Jr. rather than Green with no Jr.--swfritter 16:53, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Hunter of Worlds

I added this cover scan to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 21:03, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Elric Covers

I added a cover scan to your verified pub THSLRNTHSS1983. Thanks. ~Ron --Rtrace 12:23, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

also THWRDWHTWL1983 --Rtrace 12:27, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
and LRC04VNSHN1983 --Rtrace 12:34, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

The Star Mill

Upgraded the image and added a couple of notes to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 00:41, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Genius Unlimited

Added the month of publication (from Jaffery's Retrospective) and an artist note to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 03:28, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Dates of "The Road to the Sea" and "Bokko-Chan" in The Best Japanese Science Fiction Stories

In your verified The Best Japanese Science Fiction Stories the date of The Road to the Sea is listed as 1989. Locus cites it as 1981 from Proteus from which we have 95258 with Judith Merrill and Tetsu Yano as translators, both of whom are also cited as the translators in the Locus entry. Does your pub agree with the information from Locus, or is there perhaps a different translation than the 1981 one at work? --MartyD 16:17, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Similar question, another title: In the same pub is also Bokko-Chan, dated 1989. Locus cites it as translated by Saito and published in the June 1963 F&SF, from which we have 74564. But this one doesn't say anything about the translator on the earlier title. Thanks. --MartyD 21:53, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

"Python Error When Review Deleted"

I wonder if Bug 1743295 is still a problem. Have you run into it lately, perchance? Ahasuerus 02:56, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

That may have been the last time I deleted a review. There's enough detail in the original report that we could set up a test. As we have the date we may even be able to find the submission blob and do do the exact same delete on a backup copy of the db. --Marc Kupper|talk 04:33, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
I ran a few checks on the local server and everything seemed to work OK. I suspect that the relevant parts of the application have been rewritten a few times since 2007 and the current version doesn't have this problem, but it's hard to be sure since we don't delete Review records very often. Ahasuerus 01:08, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

The Light that Never Was

I added this cover scan to this verified pub to replace a broken Amazon link. Thanks, Willem H. 15:21, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Dinotopia Lost

I added this cover scan to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 18:59, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Kurtz's The Quest for Saint Camber

Can you double-check the ID number printed on the back of the dustjacket of this SFBC edition? It's possible that the number here came from the original record based on the listing in Locus1. Considering they were only using 5-digit numbers in 1987, there's a chance the last digit is incorrect. Thanks. MHHutchins 19:39, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Beanstalk

Scanned in a new image and expanded the notes slightly for [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 00:59, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Shock Wave/Envoy to the Dog Star

Changed a note that read: "The frontispieces for both titles have interior art that is uncredited and unsigned" to "The frontispieces for both titles are uncredited and unsigned". Got the drift of the original but it just didn't read right. [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 17:39, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Vertigo - added a cover image/ start page number

Morning! This. [10]. I added a cover image, [11], and start page number after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 12:32, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

The Ragged Astronauts - added cover image

Morning! This. [12]. I added a cover image, [13], after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 12:41, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Expedition to Earth

Added "About Arthur C. Clarke" to this pub.--swfritter 16:19, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

The Shattered Chain

I added this cover scan to this verified pub. Thanks, Willem H. 09:38, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Brother Assassin

Scanned in a cover image for [this] and added an artist note. ~Bill, --Bluesman 18:03, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Re: Non-SF Cleanup 2004

Hi Marc, I've reviewed all of 2004[14] and anything linked to these titles, can you run a new search and see what the numbers for 2004 & 2005 look like now and if 2005 still looks high can you create a list for that year? As for what's left in 2004 most are related to graphic novel authors and this issue is still unresolved. Thanks! SeanKraang 01:53, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

DAW "spelled" number lines

I recently sent an e-mail to an AbeBooks seller regarding a listing of a "Tenth Printing" just to let him know about DAW's short-lived use of that scheme. Being a bookseller with a store and obviously too much time, he has confirmed that the "First" [through] "Tenth" system was in use at least until #47. He loves the site and was very grateful for the knowledge. Think we may have a new editor in the making...... FYI! Cheers! ~Bill, --Bluesman 04:02, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Cool! I knew about up to #47. for #48 there's no number line. I was browsing through a bookstore today and spotted this where DAW forgot to add the number line. It is an August-1982 printing per the order # (and stated printing August 1982). Other August 1982 books have the number line. --Marc Kupper|talk 10:02, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Night Walk

FYI the link in the notes [original painting] for [this] no longer goes anywhere. Checked the website link and it works but the image no longer seems to be there. ~Bill, --Bluesman 19:58, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Bill. I e-mailed his son and hopefully they will put it back up. --Marc Kupper|talk 18:45, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Shadow of Heaven

Scanned in a cover for [this], unfortunately my copy is pretty worn. Maybe your's is better?? ~Bill, --Bluesman 20:55, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I have two copies (or rather, had one, lost it somewhere in the house, and got another...) and will see if I can dig it/them out this weekend. --Marc Kupper|talk 18:46, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Two-Timers

Scanned in an image and added notes to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 21:29, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Siros vs Sirois

Hi, could you check the spelling of Al's name here http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?852525 I suspect this is A.L. Sirois AKA Al Sirois. Thanks Jonschaper 00:10, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Good eye. I corrected the artist credit so that it's Al Sirois. The publication has "Map by Al Sirois" on the copyright page with no evidence of "A.L." --Marc Kupper|talk 19:00, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Date of "Coming Home" in The Mammoth Book of Best New Horror: Volume Twelve

I submitted a change of the publication date from 1999 to 2000 on Coming Home in your verified The Mammoth Book of Best New Horror: Volume Twelve. Taps and Sighs had been incorrectly entered with 1999, which propagated to all of the titles that originally came from it. OCLC and Locus agree on the 2000 for that pub, and I have already changed that. --MartyD 10:08, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Bug 1743289

Would you happen to remember anything about Bug 1743289? The description currently reads:

When merging titles the tags should be checked and any duplicates should be merged. At the moment duplicate tags are doubled up. Marc Kupper (talk) 23:38, 25 Mar 2007 (CDT)

I can't quite figure out what this may be in reference to. Publication tags are unique database-wide and shouldn't be affected by Title merges, but perhaps the term "tag" was used loosely (after all, it was March 2007 and we were all less experienced then) and refers to something else? Ahasuerus 02:08, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The "Popular Tags" aka the stuff edited by edittags.cgi. --Marc Kupper|talk 08:05, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I see! Thanks! Ahasuerus 13:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Ironcastle

I added this cover scan to this verified pub to replace this Amazon link. Thanks, Willem H. 20:55, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Earthman's Burden

I added this cover scan to this verified pub to replace this Amazon link. Thanks, Willem H. 18:54, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Added gutter code

I added a reprint gutter code to your verified [15].Don Erikson 22:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Added gutter code

I added a gutter code to a probable reprint of your verified [16]. I just noticed I have a copy with the other code so this is a reprint.Don Erikson 03:24, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

...and I deleted "#None" from the Catalog ID field. Ahasuerus 03:34, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Reel Future

Notes for [this] Source of the info is Locus1, which I added in [brackets]. You may want to re-do them or leave as is. Also added one missing page number, same source. ~Bill, --Bluesman 04:22, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Date of "Road to the Sea" in The Best Japanese Science Fiction Stories

Sorry, I should have asked before submitting this. I haven't had my coffee yet. I submitted a merge affecting the date of "Road to the Sea" in your verified The Best Japanese Science Fiction Stories, changing it from 1989 to 1981. We have the 1981 record from Proteus: Voices for the 80's, and its notes cite Judith Merrill with Tetsu Yano as the translators. The Locus content list for your pub cites those same two translators and that pub for this story. --MartyD 12:08, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Now I really know I haven't had my coffee.... I did ask before and now have failed to wait for an answer for half of that question. :-( --MartyD 12:14, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Added gutter code

I added the gutter code to your verified [17].Don Erikson 20:16, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Added Cover Scan Nebula 22

I added a cover scan to your verified [18] Nowickj 18:55, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Map of Compact Space

I would like to merge several title records which I believe refer to the same piece of interior art, entitled "Map of Compact Space", that is included in some of C. J. Cherryh's Chanur novels. You are one of the verifiers whose pub records (this and this) would be affected by the change. Before making the merge I need to make sure that all titles refer to the same piece of art. A scan of the map can be found here (link points to my personal website; once the issue has been resolved I will remove the scan so that no copyright is violated). Unless you think my proposal is a bad idea in the first place, could you please verify whether the scan matches the map you have in your publication? You may wish to read the help desk discussion leading up to this request. Thanks for your time, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 22:48, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm fine with a merge
  • You asked about Chanur's Venture. I should be able to dig this one up tomorrow.
  • You also asked about Chanur's Homecoming. Unfortunately, I marked this as being on shelf #0 and am wondering where that is in the house. I looked above shelf #1 without luck...
I found these. All have the same art as your scanned image but without the speckling that's in your image. The background is solid white and the stars are solid black. Maybe you added this so that the image is more in line with "fair use" as far as copyright goes.
An interesting argument against living in a house (as opposed to living in a flat): Too much space for bookshelves :-) -- Herzbube Talk 11:58, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I can read the phrase "Too much space for bookshelves" but it does not compute. How can one ever have too much space? (Says the guy moving to a larger house just so he can fit more books in). BLongley 21:05, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
The speckling in the image is not something I put there on purpose - it's just the lousy quality of the xerox/scanner machine at my wife's office :-) I have been thinking about buying my own scanner, but I only want something that is strictly plug&scan. No fiddling, no installing! If you happen to have a Mac and a scanner that you can recommend...Herzbube Talk 11:58, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I've no idea how well it would work with a Mac, but I'm very happy with the Lexmark 6300 series. I got mine a few years ago as a long-service award from my employers, and while I don't use the printing capability a lot the scanning capability has been used several times a day for months now. BLongley 21:05, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
And finally: Yes, there are other verifiers involved in this whole issue, 5 others besides you and me, to be exact (Dragoondelight, Willem H., Rtrace, Dcarson and Bluesman). I have contacted them all, the only one I haven't got a response from yet is Dcarson. I will probably stay away from ISFDB the next few days to catch up with my other duties (e.g. find a new job), so the merge will have to wait a little bit longer. Thanks for looking into this, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 11:58, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Good luck with the job hunt. BLongley 21:05, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Good luck with the job hunt! Someone borrowed the Chanur's Venture you had asked for and I'm waiting for it to get returned. While looking for the book I ran across a 1st HC of Chanur's Legacy and it also has the map. It gave me sufficient linkage between the Chanur series books that I merged the remaining map title records and created 563765.
Thanks for merging, less work for me :-) In the meantime I have received feedback from all the people involved. Several of them have confirmed that the map appearing in their publication of Chanur's Venture also matches the image I have put up for comparison. I therefore took the liberty of merging the title "Chanur's Venture (map)" with the title record you created (563765). I chose 1985 as the date for the title record because this is the earliest publication date of the map that has been verified so far.
In case you still want to check the borrowed copy of "Chanur's Venture", and that copy contains a different map, I will have to create a new variant title or something, but I think that's pretty unlikely. Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 02:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm also thinking it would be a good idea to upload a 600px your image and to link to it from the merged title record so that people know if it's the same image. I reduced it to 600px and it's definitely sufficiently low-res that it can't be used to make reproductions while being good enough to use for identification of the artwork. That should qualify it under fair-use. We can add a note that the image is for identification purposes only and that the original has a white background and is not speckled.
Good idea. I'm going to upload the image you sent me (it's my first upload, I first have to check guidelines/policies) and add a note to the title record. Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 02:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
OK, the image is uploaded here, but I'm stumped now: None of the available license templates seems to apply. Can I just put a descriptive blurb of what we intend on the image's wiki page? I have a feeling that this will not be good enough, esp. considering that I am no good with legalese English. Alternatively I could copy&paste the content of an existing license template and adapt it so that it doesn't talk about "book cover" and such. Any other ideas? Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 02:39, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
We just need to copy one of the cover image templates. I'm not sure which one is the "best" one. I'm a bit tired and so will deal with this tomorrow. --Marc Kupper|talk 08:51, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
One nice thing about the scanner you used is that it did a good job for a scan of the inside of a book. I have a flatbed scanner with a fairly wide margin around the glass meaning it's difficult to scan the inside of a book unless I'd be willing to either crack the spine or cut pages out. I don't have anything like the Kirtas APT 1200 scanner[19] or Google's system. :-)
I thought Google had got the pigeons to do it? ;-) BLongley 20:16, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Earth's Last Fortress/Lost in Space

New cover image[s], added both artists courtesy ACE Image Library for [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 04:20, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Tha Ancient and the Ultimate

I think that woulb be a typo in all occurrencies--ErnestoVeg 17:21, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Mindblocked Man

Scanned in a new image and added corroboration about the date to the notes, sources the CDN printing and Jaffery's Retrospective for [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 21:20, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

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