User talk:GlennMcG


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Hello, GlennMcG, and welcome to the ISFDB Wiki! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Note: Image uploading isn't entirely automated. You're uploading the files to the wiki which will then have to be linked to the database by editing the publication record.

Please be careful in editing publications that have been primary verified by other editors. See Help:How to verify data#Making changes to verified pubs. But if you have a copy of an unverified publication, verifying it can be quite helpful. See Help:How to verify data for detailed information.

I hope you enjoy editing here! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Annie 04:36, 11 June 2020 (EDT)

Novel Ideas—Science Fiction

We go by the title page of books, not the cover or copyright page. So even if books in a series look differently because of that, we do not normalize the title to match.

As it sounds like you may have the book, can you look at this one and check what is on the title page? If the two authors are there, I can approve (and we need to update the book as well); if it is not - then you can add notes but we will need to leave the book as is.

Thanks for the update and welcome again! Annie 04:39, 11 June 2020 (EDT)

Both books have just Thomsen on the title page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GlennMcG (talkcontribs) .
Then I will need to reject the edit. Do you have a handy link to the other book so I can look at it and fix it? Also - if you have the book, had you thought of verifying it?
One small operational thing - the plus sign opens a new topic in the Discussion page, if you are responding to an existing one, there is a small "edit" next to the title of the item you are responding to:) Annie 04:59, 11 June 2020 (EDT)

Here's the link:

Not sure what your verification operation consists of. I'll have to do some more reading on how the site works. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GlennMcG (talkcontribs) .

When you do a primary verification, you are saying "I have the book. All the details listed on this record are as in my book (or I noted the differences in the notes". If you have the book from a library for example, you can do Transient Primary (aka - I checked a real book and the details match - but I do not have the book anymore". When you do a PV (Primary Verification - Transient or Permanent), you will get notified on changes in the record (there is a Changed Primary menu on your page; for big changes people will post here) and if someone wants to change something and you are around, you may be asked if you can check the book again to verify something someone else claims. More details here and here.
About the book - the look inside into the Kindle book shows both names on the title page. So looks like we have a difference between the paperback and the ebook? Won't be the first... We can easily change that - would you like to try? I think I may have this book somewhere as well so will see if I can find it. Annie 17:04, 11 June 2020 (EDT)

It's not clear to me what you're suggesting I try. (Although I'm willing to give it a whirl). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GlennMcG (talkcontribs) .

To submit an update of the authors for the book (as based on what you see on the title page of yours, our record is a bit faulty). Or I can submit it if you prefer? :) Annie 19:08, 11 June 2020 (EDT)


What is on the title page on this one? Thanks! Annie 04:59, 11 June 2020 (EDT)

Legends - Edited by Margaret Weis with Janet Pack and Robin Crew
Earth, Air, Fire, Water - Edited by Margaret Weis with Robyn McGrew and Janet Pack
Seems likely to be a typo, but I understand you need rules to prioritize conflicting information.
In support of it probably being a typo, the acknowledgment page credits Weise, Pack, and Robin McGrew as the copyright owners of the prologue. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GlennMcG (talkcontribs) .
If the title page says Robin Crew, our record remains like that. But as it is indeed obviously a typo (based on how OCLC had added both books for example and the copyright notes), we variant to the correct author and add a note on the discrepancy. I've done the needed variants and added notes. Thanks for finding this one. Annie 06:00, 11 June 2020 (EDT)

Terribly Twisted Tales

To add the contents to Terribly Twisted Tales, there are two options:

  1. You can go to the publication page and click "Edit This Pub" in the left menu. In the edit screen, scroll down to the "Regular Titles" section and click the "Add Title" button. This will add a row where you can add the page number, title, author, etc. Repeat for each story. If there are reviews or interviews, enter under their respective sections. When done submit.
  2. If the stories are already in the database, they can be imported. This is the preferred method (as the above would create duplicates that would then need to be merged), but is more complex. To do this, also go to the publication page, but click "Import Content" in the left menu. In a separate window, find the title record for a story to import. Copy the URL and past into the "Title 1" box under the "Option 2" portion of the import screen. For additional titles, click the plus sign and repeat in Title 2, etc. When done, click the "Import Titles", add the page numbers on the following screen, and submit.

Hope that helps. Let us us know if you have more questions. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:17, 15 June 2020 (EDT)

I guess I should have waited longer, but as I couldn't seem to add a question to the 'help' page, I tried re-adding the book as new entry with interior title info.
Think I'll wait for more instructions before digging the hole even deeper.
See —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GlennMcG (talkcontribs) .
No problem. Sometimes we get a little backed up. You can always post at ISFDB:Help desk which usually gets a faster response. To avoid you having to redo work, I have accepted the new version and deleted the old one. When we have generic titles like Introduction or Foreword, we add the publication title in parenthesis after the title. This is to avoid an author's page being filled with a series of "Introduction" and no easy way to tell them apart. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:35, 15 June 2020 (EDT)

I had tried to ask the question on the help page, but got a write permission error.

Also, this move lost the cover art linkage from the old record.

Please sign your name

Please sign your name on talk pages and discussion boards using four tildes (~~~~); this will insert your name and the date. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:41, 19 June 2020 (EDT)

There is also a button in the toolbar above the edit window (the second to last that looks like a signature) which will insert the syntax so you don't have to type it. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:44, 19 June 2020 (EDT)

GlennMcG 18:00, 19 June 2020 (EDT) Ok

Although it does seem odd that the site software doesn't sign things auto-magically, as you need to be signed in to play the game. GlennMcG 18:03, 19 June 2020 (EDT)

The Edge of Running Water

I accepted The Edge of Running Water, but made a couple of changes:

  • Standardized the publisher to Editions for the Armed Services
  • Removed Armed Services Editions from the pub series. It is redundant with the publisher and not really a pub series since every book published by this publisher was marked as that.
  • Changed the page count to 352. When there is a single unnumbered page after the numbered page, we just include it in the numbered pages. If there were multiple unnumbered pages (say 5, for example), then it would be entered as 352+5.
  • Changed the price to $0.00 and moved the text to the pub notes. Prices should be currency symbol and number only. Any explanations go in the notes.
  • I added the date based on the catalog id as sourced to Wikipedia.

Thanks for adding this. Regarding your note on adding the cover image: Now that the pub is entered, there is a "Upload cover scan" link below he pub notes. You would use that to upload the scan and then edit the publication to add the resultant link to the scan. There is a link to the help page in the welcome message above. If you have any questions, please let us know. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:57, 26 June 2020 (EDT)

Grantville Gazette VII

I accepted the changes to Grantville Gazette VII, but kept the original "By Hook or by Crook". It was easier to edit the title of the existing record to make the capitalization change. Actually, it would have been easier to edit all three titles instead, but as they appear in other verified pubs, we will have to run that by those verifiers. So I accepted for this pub and will have the other verifiers check their pubs. Once confirmed, I will merge or variant as necessary. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:53, 27 June 2020 (EDT)

Did you see the response I made in my talk pages? I believe the usual practice is to respond to the question where it is asked. Thanks for spotting the problems. Jack Sjmathis 08:58, 29 June 2020 (EDT)
The cover of the paperback version is slightly different that the covers of the HC and TP versions of this book. I had scanned my cover and added it to the ISFDB, but it disappeared when the incorrect book was deleted. If you copy has a clean cover, can you scan it and replace the cover of the PB version? Sjmathis 10:02, 29 June 2020 (EDT)

Just noticed the "Best Selling" medallion is in a different location. I'll upload a scan. --GlennMcG 16:29, 29 June 2020 (EDT)

Thanks! Much better than my old cover. Jack Sjmathis 12:26, 4 July 2020 (EDT)

The E.S.P. Worm

When changing data in a publication with active primary verifiers, please check with another verifier first. Beyond a courtesy, we have found that this occasionally reveals the existence of a different version (99% of the time it's a database error, but sometimes it's not). I checked with Rtrace and he confirmed your change so I accepted it. I have also unmerged it from the other versions using Robert E. Margroff and created a variant title. Thanks for finding this. -- JLaTondre (talk) 15:41, 4 July 2020 (EDT)

Castle Fantastic

For Castle Fantastic, I have had to reject your edit. Instead of creating a new title, simply edit publication and change the existing title. This avoids having to remove and delete the old one. When a title is only in a single publication, it can be edited from that publication (it will not be grayed out). Please resubmit with just correcting the existing record. After that is approved, it will show up under Linda Dunn and need to be varianted to Linda J. Dunn (as described with Carolyn Gilman's title on my talk page). From you moderator note, it sounds like you have this pub. Please consider primary verifying it. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 15:56, 4 July 2020 (EDT)

Quest for the Spear

I accepted Quest for the Spear.

  • Title: I debated about this. These days, if a publication title is of the format of "Series Name: Book Name" (or vice versa), we only record the book name and leave the series for the series field. However, this was a one off. There were other films, though. I went with it as a series name. If you feel different, let me know and I will reverse it.
  • Prologue: Does this stand on its own? Like it would be reprinted elsewhere? If not, we would include it as part of the novel and not list it separately.
  • Introduction: Yes, we would normally include essay introductions. If it was a fictional introduction, then it would fall into the same category as the prologue, but an essay gets indexed. As for page number, the preferred method would be to count the unnumbered pages and enter the "page number" in brackets [] to indicate unnumbered. The other choice is to use "bp" to indicate unnumbered pages that precede pagination (this is what I typically do).

Let me know what you think about the title and whether we should remove the prologue. -- JLaTondre (talk) 20:57, 6 July 2020 (EDT)

It's fine as a series. I'll remove the prologue, as it's not standalone. (Just late 4th century A.D. setup for modern times). 'bp' seems easier, but what would I use for the first of five pages before page one? [i]? [-4]? [-5]? [1]? --GlennMcG 22:01, 6 July 2020 (EDT)
I would probably go with [i] as that implies front pages, but you could also go with [1]. The key is to explain the situation in the notes (ex. "Introduction starts on the first of five unnumbered pages before the novel" or something similar). -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:45, 7 July 2020 (EDT)

I tweaked it per your suggestions, but was wondering if there was a way to have the introduction show up before the main novel in the title list. --GlennMcG 02:31, 8 July 2020 (EDT)

Use pipe in the page number. [1]|5 will sort as 5 for example. If the page number contains | (pipe), the number after it is used for sorting while the one before it is shown. If there is no pipe, the number is used for both - think of 3 being a short way to write 3|3 for example. Annie 09:21, 8 July 2020 (EDT)

Steal the Galaxy!

A few small things:

  • You do not need <br> on every line -- we used to but the software changed 10 years or so ago. We just never cleaned up all the old ones (and some editors keep adding them). The first one (on the first line) is the only one that makes sense and any difference (as it will put you under the line that starts with Notes on the pub page)
  • The issue of Locus where the book was listed is interesting information and I hate losing it when editors edit. So I restored it here.

See the changes here. Thanks! Annie 19:24, 8 July 2020 (EDT)

Enemies of Fortune

Putting "Delete" as the page number will not automatically delete a title - we use that when there are multiple changes in the book so we do not lose track (and if the handling moderator decides to, they can do the Remove) but a change that only changes this is unneeded. What you need to do is to submit a "Remove Titles From This Pub" request instead -- go to the left menu and locate the link for that. For this book, it will open this. Select the title you want to remove and submit the removal. I rejected this. I can do the Remove or you can try (so you know how to do it next time) :) Let me know if you have any questions. Annie 13:28, 9 July 2020 (EDT)

I can do that, but when I changed the title the first time following instructions that worked previously it failed this way. (Add replacement title, marking the original to substitute). Am I in this boat because that edit failed to work, and this is the appropriate fixup? Or should I have done it differently in the first place? --GlennMcG 15:37, 9 July 2020 (EDT)
No, it worked exactly as it was supposed to. You just did not have an invisible helper this time. :) If you want a title out from a publication, someone needs to send a Remove submission - you or the moderator who approved that first edit. When you mark the title as you did initially (with *** or deleted in the page number), you have a 50/50 chance of a moderator simply making the Remove for you silently post approval.
Last time it appeared to work because the approving moderator made the Remove Titles submissions after they approved your edit and probably never came to tell you that there is one more step to be done in such cases (which they had done). With new editors, we all try to shield them a bit from the more complicated and annoying parts of the DB so we will do a lot of additional submissions and fixes post approval. I usually would still stop by and explain what I had to do in addition to the already done but... Some moderators will, some won't - depends on how busy one is and sometimes depends on how concentrated one is. Hope that makes sense.
PS: Do not submit Remove in parallel to Pub Edit -- if the Remove is approved first, the Pub Edit will fail. As it is a 2 step process, I tend to assist and make the Remove when I approve such edits - you did the work of marking it, I can as well make the other submission when I do not get distracted. But different moderators work differently. Annie 16:12, 9 July 2020 (EDT)
So, basically double check all my approved edits, and finish up what doesn't happen auto-magically by editor. :) --GlennMcG 16:16, 9 July 2020 (EDT)
Yep. Plus this also allows you to spot other things you missed the first time. Annie 16:19, 9 July 2020 (EDT)

The Forge of Virtue

Another little tip: When a submission is approved, the "old" data is lost. So when adding notes in the cases when there is a PV already such as here instead of stating the obvious "Notes update pre-PVing" which is as good as not adding a note at all, list the changes you are making ("copyright, number line, first printing added" for example). This way someone looking at the history can see what data was verified when. Thanks! Annie 19:34, 9 July 2020 (EDT)

Sure. I thought I read somewhere that the note to the moderator wasn't retained, and therefore wouldn't show up in history. --GlennMcG 19:39, 9 July 2020 (EDT)
It is not retained as part of the title/publication record itself but if you go to the submission itself (via History (this feature is very new), "My Changed Primary" (a few years old - and which is how now we do not require you to post on every PV page every time you touch a PV-ed publication - which used to be the rule before) or via the Recent Edits), it is there on the submission. :) So you should not put important information there but stuff like "what changed" belongs there. Annie 19:50, 9 July 2020 (EDT)
Will do. --GlennMcG 19:52, 9 July 2020 (EDT)

Patricia Mathews

You started off correctly editing the parent entries and then veered into editing the variant entries (which is incorrect). I accepted the couple correct ones, but will be rejecting all of the incorrect ones. I will explain the difference in a minute, but want to post this message now as you are continuing to make edits that will need to be rejected. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:14, 10 July 2020 (EDT)

I know where I went off the rails. I'll start up again when you give the word. --GlennMcG 18:17, 10 July 2020 (EDT)
I typed the following before seeing your response so am going to go ahead and post it just in case: Titles should be credited as per the publication. If the publication uses a non-canonical name for an author, we variant the title to the canonical name. The variant will have the credit used in the publication and the parent will have the canonical author name. To fix these stories, the parent needs to be edited so that the variant keeps the form used in the publication and the parent shows up under the canonical author's page. Most of your submission have been changing the variant which means you are changing the form used in the publication and still leaving it under the Patricia Matthews author's page. I will leave the edits on hold for now. If you click on "My Pending Edits", you will see what you were changing. From there you can go to the parent record and edit it instead. That may make it easier so you don't have re-research each one. When you are done, you can either cancel your held edits or I will reject them. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:29, 10 July 2020 (EDT)
I'm cancelling now, and will edit the parents. It turns out I can't find any entries that make sense for 'Patricia Matthews'. --GlennMcG 18:31, 10 July 2020 (EDT)
I've edited a parent. When approved, I'll follow suit for the others. Sorry about the extra work for you. --GlennMcG 18:36, 10 July 2020 (EDT)
Approved. It's part of the learning process of how things work here, so no problems. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:40, 10 July 2020 (EDT)

"There Is Always an Alternative" is an interesting case as there is publication under the parent title as well. The data for publication that comes from secondary sources. I will check into it and see if that credit is correct or not. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:01, 10 July 2020 (EDT)

It should have been one "t" as well. Fixed. Thanks for finding these. -- JLaTondre (talk) 21:18, 10 July 2020 (EDT)

Blood Song

I approved your edit to Blood Song. However, you left the prior "Data from Amazon (date) and Locus Magazine #608 as of 2012-09-08" statement, but you primary verified it. When a publication is primary verified, the expectation is that the data is from the publication iteself. If any information in a primary verified publication comes from secondary sources, than it should explicitly state which information (ex. "Cover artist not credited. Cover artist from artist's website."). The statement should either be removed or edited. If the date is Amazon than it should say "Date from Amazon as of ...", but the way it is written says the date is from Amazon and the rest of the information from Locus. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:45, 10 July 2020 (EDT)

Same with To Dance with the Devil. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:46, 10 July 2020 (EDT)
Hmmm. I read "Data from Amazon (date) and Locus Magazine #608 as of 2012-09-08." as the entry was created with data from both Amazon(the date), and the rest from Locus, on 2012-09-08. The date in the entry (from Amazon) is more specific than the year/month on the copyright page. Perhaps something like:
  • Exact publication date from Amazon
  • Listed in Locus #608
  • my stuff
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by GlennMcG (talkcontribs) .
Looks good. Approved. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:46, 10 July 2020 (EDT)

Castaways in Time

You managed to double verify Castaways in Time. Not a big deal, but you may want to remove one. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:26, 11 July 2020 (EDT)

How would one do that? --GlennMcG 15:51, 11 July 2020 (EDT)
Lol. That's a good question. You could probably unverify (which would hopefully remove both) and reverify. But now that I think about it, it shouldn't be possible to get in that state the way the GUI works these days. I will point Ahasuerus to this discussion in case there is a bug he would want to look into. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:35, 11 July 2020 (EDT)
Yeah, I don't see a way to modify/remove verifications in any way. --GlennMcG 17:43, 11 July 2020 (EDT)
To remove or change a verification, click on "Verify This Pub" this pub again. If you have already verified it, the options will now be "No verification" and "Transient verification" (assuming you permanently verified it). This allows undoing a mistaken verification or changing the status of a verification (in case you are downsizing your collection or have bought a book you previously transient verified). -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:06, 11 July 2020 (EDT)
Done. --GlennMcG 18:09, 11 July 2020 (EDT)


I'm holding this edit. It looks like you cloned the second printing to create the first? We already have the first printing. Am I missing something? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:50, 13 July 2020 (EDT)

Yep, must have missed it somehow. I'll cancel the edit, and PV the 1st printing. --GlennMcG 18:02, 13 July 2020 (EDT)

The Dark Remains

For The Dark Remains & other recent additions, you added a note of "Maps by Karen Wallace". Is there a reason you just didn't add the maps as interior art? -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:16, 16 July 2020 (EDT)

Because I didn't know that was appropriate. What would you like me to do? --GlennMcG 20:06, 16 July 2020 (EDT)

We generally include them so I'd add them. They are entered as interior art. For title, 1) if the map has title "Given Title (map)"; 2) if the map is not titled, "Book Title (map)"; and if the same map is used in multiple books of the series and is not titled, you could use "Series Title (map)". If there are multiple maps, than use "maps" instead of "map" in the parenthesis. -- JLaTondre (talk) 21:02, 16 July 2020 (EDT)

Replacing cover images

When replacing cover images that are already on the wiki, please don't upload at a new location. Instead, upload over the existing image. To do that, go to the image page (example Image:THRGHTHCTK1992.jpg) and use the "Upload a new version of this file" at the bottom of the page. It will warn you that are overwriting an existing image, but just go ahead. If someone else uploaded the prior image, edit the image page after uploading and change the name in the source field to your user name. You will not need to re-edit the publication entry as it will already be linked. However, due to a bug with our wiki software, your browser may not show the new image unless you force a cache refresh (typically a shift F5). This avoids unused & duplicate images on the wiki.

For Through the Ice, I moved the image you uploaded at Image:THRGHTHCTK1992-2.jpg over to Image:THRGHTHCTK1992.jpg and deleted the former. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:07, 17 July 2020 (EDT)

I was concerned that if I used the same name it would overwrite the old image, and make it impossible to refuse the edit. So this is a function that is not moderated? --GlennMcG 16:11, 17 July 2020 (EDT)
Correct. Image uploading is not moderated. But we do pay attention to it so if something goes wrong, it can be fixed. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:52, 17 July 2020 (EDT)

The Ancient One

Regarding this submission: Is this 6th printing actually listed in Locus with the specified printing date? Or when cloning this record did the date and note not get removed? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:16, 26 July 2020 (EDT)

I missed removing the Locus reference in the cloning process. --GlennMcG 15:02, 26 July 2020 (EDT)
Approved & removed. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:03, 26 July 2020 (EDT)

Kisssing Sin (excerpt)

In Tempting Evil, should be the second excerpt be "Kissing Sin" (two s's) instead of the current three s's? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 09:26, 30 July 2020 (EDT)

Although 3 times is a charm, 2 is the right call here. --GlennMcG 15:13, 30 July 2020 (EDT)

Changed. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:02, 30 July 2020 (EDT)


For Survival, I accepted the edit, but changed the date to match the publication statement. Per the current rules (Template:PublicationFields:Year, last bullet), we use the date listed in the publication as the official date. If a secondary source provides a more precise date, it is acceptable to refine the precision (ex. add a day to a year & month only). If a secondary source contradicts the publication, we still use the publication's date and the secondary source information can go into the pub notes. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:17, 2 August 2020 (EDT)

Got it. I think I was intuiting a more numeric approach to approximations, but understand the rationale. --GlennMcG 15:56, 2 August 2020 (EDT)


Hello. I have your update submission on hold, as I suspect that you inadvertently updated the wrong record. There's a mass market record already available here, PV'd by Taweiss. You may want to cancel your submission, remove your PV from the 2010 record, and PV the latter instead. Regards, MagicUnk 06:41, 6 August 2020 (EDT)

Done. In some ways, I wonder whether the 2010 pb existed at all. I actively collect Brust and would have picked up then, rather than waiting until 2018 to grab it. --GlennMcG 16:04, 6 August 2020 (EDT)
Looking at the date of the addition to the site and the date of the book (it is added 2 and a half months before the pub date), it won't surprise me if it was announced but never made it out indeed. Annie 01:10, 7 August 2020 (EDT)

Adding an interview to the contents

Hello. You added in this submission an interview as an essay, with both the interviewee (Robert Buettner) as well as the interviewer (uncredited) as authors. Better is to have this entered as an actual INTERVIEW record - unless of course Robert Buettner happens to be the actual author of the interview? Let me know if you would want to change the title from ESSAY to INTERVIEW yourself, or if you prefer I do that for you. I've put the submission on hold for the moment. Regards, MagicUnk 07:55, 6 August 2020 (EDT)

I'll submit another edit and cancel the first. --GlennMcG 15:31, 6 August 2020 (EDT)

Gotcha when changing pub titles

Hi. If you decide to change a publication's title, a subtle gotcha is that usually the associated COVERART record was created using the same title used when the pub was created. It does not automatically get changed after that, so a second edit is required to fix it up as well. I did this for The Witch War Cycle. Just something to keep in mind for the future. Thanks. --MartyD 09:19, 8 August 2020 (EDT)

There's no image on the book that you linked now. But I can't remember if it had one before. --GlennMcG 15:50, 8 August 2020 (EDT)
No image does not mean no Cover Art record - which is what Marty is talking about. :) When a new book is added, the title and the publication title are the same and so is the cover art title of a cover artist is added. Once created, they become 3 separate records - and they all usually need adjustment when you are changing one of them. Annie 16:07, 8 August 2020 (EDT)

I tried with another rename and it's closer, but still an issue. I changed title and cover art in [1], but when I link back through the cover it points at a parent with a title that doesn't exist. How do I unvariant the cover art? [2] goes to, which shouldn't exist. --GlennMcG 19:31, 8 August 2020 (EDT)

The parent needs to exist as the pub artist credit is "Ken W. Kelly", but our canonical name for that artist is "Ken Kelly". Instead of unvarianting, you need to edit the parent. Go to that last link, click the edit button in the top right, and change the name to match the pub. -- JLaTondre (talk) 20:55, 8 August 2020 (EDT)
Got it. --GlennMcG 21:08, 8 August 2020 (EDT)

Carson of Venus omnibus price

Hi. In your submission for Carson of Venus: Volume 1, you give a price of $0.00, but then the notes say it is POD and prices vary, which is different from a $0.00 price. Which is correct? I think if the price is varying, we'd leave the price field blank. We do have free publications where the price is literally zero. No need to do anything: I will adjust on acceptance according to whatever you say. Thanks. --MartyD 07:01, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

Sorry, missed this one. Blank is fine for price. I thought I had seen bibliographic warnings for missing price and thought $0.00 would suppress them. The old null vs empty-string conundrum. --GlennMcG 15:47, 10 August 2020 (EDT)
It will, unfortunately, show a warning, but we don't have a special non-price price value. Maybe someday. :-) Anyway, it's accepted and updated. --MartyD 17:52, 10 August 2020 (EDT)
If it is a US only book (aka all prices are in $), I would put $ instead of a blank field. It deals with the warning (see for an example and it does show the country the book belongs to (which for languages with multiple countries is a good and useful data point) :) Annie 18:12, 10 August 2020 (EDT)
I've seen US and UK prices for books in different volumes of this POD series. --GlennMcG 18:23, 10 August 2020 (EDT)
Then we are stuck with empty for this one. But keep that in mind for other cases :) Annie 18:28, 10 August 2020 (EDT)
Would '$£' be legal? --GlennMcG 18:34, 10 August 2020 (EDT)
I think it will get flagged and fixed after that. Just leave it empty for now. :( Annie 21:27, 10 August 2020 (EDT)

At the Earth's Core, et al, omnibus

Hi. For this submission, I have two questions:

  1. The ISBN of 0486201510 is flagged as invalid. Would you double-check?
  2. Our standard for naming omnibuses (omnibi?) when they are not specifically titled is to use the titles of the collected works, separated by slashes and spaces. See the second sub-bullet in Help:Screen:NewPub#Title. So if the omnibus you have just lists the three titles, we would use At the Earth's Core / Pellucidar / Tanar of Pellucidar instead of At the Earth's Core: Pellucidar: Tanar of Pellucidar.

Let me know, and I will adjust. Thanks. --MartyD 07:28, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

I've created another 'newPub' and will cancel the old. (I didn't notice your offer to replace in time, and I have more info this go round, anyways). The ISBN is funny, as it's written with transposed digits on the rear cover, which I copied, but correct on spine and copyright page. --GlennMcG 15:39, 9 August 2020 (EDT)
Always good to mention that ISBN funny thinghy in the notes, too :) Cheers! MagicUnk 10:12, 10 August 2020 (EDT)
Done. --GlennMcG 15:51, 10 August 2020 (EDT)
Yeah. If it appears in multiple places and any one of them is correct, we take that one as "the" ISBN and note where we got it and the discrepancy with the others. --MartyD 17:41, 10 August 2020 (EDT)
And correct just means passes checksum algorithm. No convenient way to determine if it's the 'right' ISBN. --GlennMcG 18:25, 10 August 2020 (EDT)

Claimed by Shadow


Can you check again the OCLC number here? I do not see anything in OCLC indicating that this is a record for the second printing. OCLC adds some later printings and the OCLC numbers we add should be for the correct printing, not generic records. In the very least a note explaining that the OCLC record is for an unclear printing needs to be added. Thanks! Annie 05:31, 13 August 2020 (EDT)

Just remove it, or I can. --GlennMcG 05:42, 13 August 2020 (EDT)
If you had not yet, I will. Sorry - went to bed last night so did not see this :) Annie 14:19, 13 August 2020 (EDT)
I moved it. If you decide to remove it completely, go away and remove the line I added - especially with a PV, it can go away (if there is no PV, I would leave it this way as OCLC has page numbers and stuff like that). :) Annie 14:24, 13 August 2020 (EDT)
I think the root problem is that I don't know when it's appropriate to check 'reuse external IDs' when cloning a publication for a different printing. --GlennMcG 15:20, 13 August 2020 (EDT)
Personally, I almost always uncheck this one -- if I need to re-add some from the original, I do it while editing the clone. My exception is for non-English books usually - for example FantLab keeps single record for all reprints of an edition -- so this record goes on all of our records. OCLC for Russian books also does not care much about printings.
When it comes down to US books, OCLC tends to keep separate records for printings (not all of printings have it), DNB does the same for German for example (so having the same DNB record for two printings is almost unheard of). LCCN has the first printing(and sometimes later when it is very different but still called printing because... publishers... ) so my rule is to usually just add on the first printing and just note it on the rest but other people do it differently for LCCN (as unlike OCLC, printings and other formats usually will not be issued a new LCCN). Goodreads is rarely per printing unless the cover changes - then they will have both records - but they usually have a date on the record which ties to a printing in most cases. It is a thin line sometimes -- and you will see more than one practice being used.
Hope this makes some sense. Just trust your instincts - if you are looking for information about this specific printing/edition, does this external ID actually describe it and with library sources (OCLC, BL, BNF, DNB, PORBASE and so on), if a book is pulled based on this record, will it be the one you are holding? This is why we allow the templating inside of the notes (what I did when I edited) - so you can note additional records that are related but not exactly matching (but that can add information if the actual version does not have a record) - you won't add these if there an exact one unless it has a lot of relevant information but they are useful in cases such as OCLC having a single record for a series or just records for other printings and so on. Annie 15:42, 13 August 2020 (EDT)


Hello. I have your submission on hold for a moment, as it would be best to ask Holmesd if he's OK to remove the publication date of this 4th printing. He may recall why he has left a publication date of 1996-05-00 for this one. Regards, MagicUnk 14:40, 13 August 2020 (EDT)

I asked, and (s)he's ok with it. --GlennMcG 19:59, 14 August 2020 (EDT)
And approved! MagicUnk 03:01, 17 August 2020 (EDT)

Grimes at the Great Race

In this edit, the proposed new parent is an exact match of the existing record. What are you trying to achieve? -- JLaTondre (talk) 14:20, 15 August 2020 (EDT)'

It was supposed to point at [3]. ('at' a variant of 'and').--GlennMcG 16:03, 15 August 2020 (EDT)
To do that you need to use the Option 1 section of the variant screen. In the Parent # box, you would place the title number (it will actual accept the whole URL to make copy and pasting easier) of the desired parent. When you use the Option 2 section, you are creating a new record. I've rejected the edit and will let you re-submit the correct form. Let me know if my instructions were not clear. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:20, 15 August 2020 (EDT)

Upon a Sea of Stars

For this edit, does the publication:

  1. have the novel or does it have the original short stories?
  2. have the collection itself or does it have the stories from the collection?

Only what is actually in the publication should be listed. -- JLaTondre (talk) 14:22, 15 August 2020 (EDT)

  1. Yes. The novel, and the components are listed in TOC, and each have separate title pages.
  2. Yes. Same for the collection.
--GlennMcG 16:08, 15 August 2020 (EDT)
It seems unlikely that the novel would fit in 2 pages. Is it really the novel + the novelettes (in other words the full novel plus the repetition of the individual stories that were combined to make the novel) or the novel is formed of chapters that are the same as the novelettes? -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:14, 15 August 2020 (EDT)
It's nested, like the TOC, which is formatted as an outline.
  1. title page of novel
  2. dedication page of novel
  3. title page of first component and initial text
  4. more pages of component #1
  5. title page of 2nd compononent and initial text
  6. more pages of component #2
etc --GlennMcG 16:21, 15 August 2020 (EDT)
Approved. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:27, 15 August 2020 (EDT)

Imperial Earth & The Wind from the Sun

Hello. To answer your question Don't know if I'm supposed to add '[verified]' to my G39 printing. in your submission here: No. Since the ISFDB records all distinct printings, I suggest you create a new record by cloning the G10 printing and make it your G39 printing, that you can then verify. Btw, is your G39 printing also an SFBC? (note that I'm not an expert on these kind of printing designations and SFBC, so you may want to consult other moderators that can chime in with their thoughts on the matter, but the basic rule is 'if it's a different printing, then it's a different pub record...). Same for this one, I think. As far as I can deduce, this record is for the first printing (D1). Is your G20 printing a SFBC edition too, or a regular one? MagicUnk 13:42, 26 August 2020 (EDT)

There are special rules for entering SFBC editions. See [4]. One record for all printings. It's just that the instructions don't mention how to use the 'verified' tag when describing the gutter code. --GlennMcG 15:02, 26 August 2020 (EDT)
Yep - SFBC is a bit special on this regard - unless the cover or the ISBN or the SFBC number changes or something else, we don't separate printings here (these indicate something closer to batches and not printings basically). The usual way is to specify that PV2 has gutter code XX, PV3 has gutter code YY and so on -- I like adding the name of the editor as well, especially if it is not PV1 (in case someone pulls their verification - the old system had exact numbers, this one does not). Alternatively just listing them all in a list also works. That can change at some point but I prefer the system as is quite honestly... Annie 15:39, 26 August 2020 (EDT)
I haven't seen linkages to PVers in any of the few dozen i've PVed. Just an occasional 'verified' after the gutter code. --GlennMcG 15:45, 26 August 2020 (EDT)
Some do, some don't. We have other cases with gutter codes which serve as batch differentiators only. The Verified means someone saw that code (aka it is not just from an online source) and decided to mark it that way because they also added some of the others; adding a name helps track down details if it gets to that. Do whatever feels comfortable - I tend to like more information than less. Different editors, different styles. :) Annie 15:50, 26 August 2020 (EDT)
Hmmm, I not necessarily agree with bunching all SFBC printings (don't understand what the difference between print runs & batches really is, especially since it seems that gutter code identifies which batch/printing it is about) into a single pub record, but I'll approve the few records I have on hold (as they conform to the current practice). Regards, MagicUnk 05:28, 27 August 2020 (EDT)

Motor-Boat, Motor-Cycle

I noticed that you corrected some pub titles of both Tom Swift novels. However, you didn't change the contents title accordingly. Having done a cursory check on Motor-Boat, I notice that virtually all (if not all?) publications have the hyphen on their title page. Would you think that it is a correct assumption that all existing records must be updated? So, shouldn't we change all pub and title records to the hyphen variant? Thanks! MagicUnk 08:34, 27 August 2020 (EDT)

At a minimum, at least all the facsimile Applewood publications should match. I missed one, and have entered an edit. Beyond that, I don't see how you're seeing title page info on the others. Now, we could change the title record to have the dash, as then it would match the original (facsimile) edition. --GlennMcG 15:19, 27 August 2020 (EDT)
Well, for a few of the others I did check LookInside on Amazon (for what that's worth), and these showed the dash as well. If we're not going to touch the other ones, and only the facsimile ones, we'll have to create a new title record (not change the existing one, otherwise you'll end up changing the title record for all other pubs as well), and then either variant the one with the dash to the one without (or the other way around, depends on which one's older will be the parent). Regards, MagicUnk 16:57, 27 August 2020 (EDT)
I'm new at this and am happy to take direction from those with a more seasoned opinions. --GlennMcG 17:40, 27 August 2020 (EDT)

Knight Life

Hi Glenn, I've accepted your edit to change the publisher of Knight Life from Ace Books to Ace Fantasy Books. A quick heads up: you may not know we have a protocol to advise other Primary Verifiers of proposed changes to their verified publications, and this book would be a case in point before submitting the edit. However as you can see, the other verifiers have not shown their faces around these parts for some time (the most recent being March this year), and we shouldn't let your edit to remain unapproved in perpetuity. Please just leave a message on their Talk pages that your edit has gone ahead in lieu of their long absence. Thanks! PeteYoung 04:01, 31 August 2020 (EDT)

A Breach in the Heavens

For A Breach in the Heavens, the notes have "This edition has US, UK and Canadian prices". It would be good to include the UK and Canadian prices in that note. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 20:52, 2 September 2020 (EDT)

Done (Although, I did inherit that part of the note). --GlennMcG 21:20, 2 September 2020 (EDT)

The Crippled Angel

Just a quick note. Excerpts get the publication date from the publication they appear in, not the pub date of the original publication (which I guess you've done for 'Druid's Sword (excerpt)' ?). I've updated this excerpt you've added to The Crippled Angel from 2006-05-00 to 2006-08-00. Regards, MagicUnk 14:44, 5 September 2020 (EDT)

Thanks! That makes it easier to deal adding excerpts. My (apparently bad) intuition was that it would be more like a title, than a publication. --GlennMcG 17:26, 5 September 2020 (EDT)
Well, it's a title all right, but one that happens to be published together with the book it appears in. Look at it this way: excerpts are titles in their own right and are, in a way, unrelated to the work they're an excerpt from - much like short stories, really. If you look at excerpts this way, it's easy to see why they receive the date of the pub they appear in. Hope that helps? Regards, MagicUnk 11:02, 6 September 2020 (EDT)
If it were like a real short story, the date would be when the short was first published, not when the collection or anthology it's printing in was. But nevertheless, I understand the process now. --GlennMcG 14:39, 6 September 2020 (EDT)
Yes, exactly so. But unless we know when this exact same excerpt was first published, we have to stick with what we know; ie the date of the publication at hand :) And by the way, thanks for your contributions! Most appreciated! Regards, MagicUnk 14:49, 6 September 2020 (EDT)

Ark Liberty

I've added cover art credit to Ark Liberty since that artwork is featured on page 15 of David Mattingly's artbook Alternate Views, Alternate Universes (the signature is hidden under the publisher's red bar). Susan O'Fearna 17:28, 15 September 2020 (EDT)

Asimov's The Rest of the Robots

I've started a discussion on the Community Portal regarding some changes I'd like to make to the publications of Asimov's The Rest of the Robots. Since you verified a copy, please weigh in there and let me know your opinion on the proposed changes. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:25, 15 September 2020 (EDT)

Yaril's Children

I added cover art credit to Yaril's Children with some notes. Susan O'Fearna 21:47, 15 September 2020 (EDT)

Ride the Star Winds

I'm trying to change the cover artist credit for Ride the Star Winds -- the book itself (and the amazon look inside) says cover art by Stephen Hickman, but the art appears on Alan Pollack's website (under Science Fiction) and I pm'd Steve on FB and he says that isn't his art! Susan O'Fearna 14:15, 16 September 2020 (EDT)

Up Jim River

Re Up Jim River: Is there a reason to not include the maps (as by uncredited) in the contents? I recognize the pub note predates your edit, but if there is maps, we would generally include in the contents and you are the only active verifier at this point. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:20, 19 September 2020 (EDT)

Having someone to credit is one the factors I use when determining what to add while editing. However, I can go back and add the maps. --GlennMcG 15:17, 19 September 2020 (EDT)

Knight Life number line

I see that you recently added a note to Knight Life indicating that it is a first printing noted by a number line. My copy has no number line. Could I get you to take a second look. If yours really does have a number line, then I would surmise that we have two different variants. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 14:58, 20 September 2020 (EDT)

You're right, there's no number line. Not sure why I entered it that way, other than I screwed up. Edit entered to remove the number line. --GlennMcG 15:23, 20 September 2020 (EDT)

Tales from Not Long for This World

I'm going to make some changes to our mutually verified copy of Tales from Not Long for This World. The title of the publication is currently listed as "Not Long for This World (abridged)" and there is a note stating "The title on the cover is preceded by 'Tales from' but not on the title page." This statement is not correct. The title page does have the words "Tales from" appearing in a smaller font above the rest of the title. I suspect that with the title depicted in negative space and the size of the font that whoever added that comment must have missed it. In any case, I'm going to alter the title and the note. I also intend to add at least one external id. Please let me know if you have any concerns. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:11, 21 September 2020 (EDT)


I approved your submission for Cat*A*Lyst, but you need to now variant that title with Cat-A-Lyst, or be sure to merge it with other versions of the pub with the new title. Bob 15:46, 26 September 2020 (EDT)

You should probably further investigate which other pub records need to updated to the 'dotted' spelling of the title and merge/variant as needed. And by the way, the pub record now has two coverart title records too... MagicUnk 16:31, 26 September 2020 (EDT)

I'm trying to figure out an order to attack this in. I removed the 2nd cover, and did an edit for the Canadian pb. Would it make sense to edit the title record, as I believe that most of the pubs will end up with dots? --GlennMcG 17:12, 26 September 2020 (EDT)

Depends. If you can establish that the vast majority of pubs have the dot-title, then yes, you could do that and then unmerge the few that are with a dash. Seems to me the first thing to establish is which pubs have a dot-title... Regards, MagicUnk 15:58, 27 September 2020 (EDT)

Hmmm. 5 dots, 4 dashes, and 1 neither. I am tempted to change the main title to dots, as that would match the first appearance of the title as well. --GlennMcG 16:13, 27 September 2020 (EDT)

All my edits went through, and now I'm not sure if I'm done or not. Is all right the way it is, or are there further steps? Should there be a variant title? I'm not quite sure what would be expected here. --GlennMcG 15:37, 29 September 2020 (EDT)
If you look at the list there are 3 publications (the UK Orbit ones) where the title uses the fancy character while the publication uses the "-". They need to match so if these 3 really need to have "-" (and it seems so?), the next step is to unmerge the 3 publications out from the title and then merge the 3 resulting titles and then variant the result to the main work. Annie 15:46, 29 September 2020 (EDT)
One more actually: this one needs to be merged into the main work. Let me know if you want to try or if you want me to. Annie 15:48, 29 September 2020 (EDT)
How about Katzenspiel? Do translations have different expectations? --GlennMcG 15:56, 29 September 2020 (EDT)
Technically yes but it is already on its own and varianted into the main title so nothing needs to be changed in it. :) The only ones that were getting changed were the English language ones - the translations are already sorted out. Annie 16:04, 29 September 2020 (EDT)
All approved and I also sorted out the Keith Parkinson covers (two of them were with the wrong separator). What remains now are the three reviews - for which we will need the PVs of the publications they are in to check what the separator is. Unfortunately 2 of the 3 have only inactive PVs so I would just leave the reviews alone (so just mentioning it here for the next time you are adjusting titles) :) Thanks for fixing these! Annie 17:54, 29 September 2020 (EDT)
Looks good! Thanks for sorting these out. Regards, MagicUnk 17:48, 30 September 2020 (EDT)

A War of Shadows

Cover artist of this is Davis Meltzer, his signature is in the middle at the very bottom of the front cover, see this scan. Horzel 17:30, 27 September 2020 (EDT)

HTMLize notes


Changing a lengthy note from non-HTML to HTML format when adding a small piece of information is considered a bit rude and inconsiderate, especially when there are multiple PVs (such as here). We work as a team and one editor's format cannot (and should not) be used to overwrite everyone else's just because they are the last to edit. It will be appreciated if you show some respect to the other editors' styles - not everyone is comfortable working with HTML and we support both types of comments for a reason.

I think I mentioned that once in one of the threads but don't remember mentioning it directly on your page so decided to stop by and just post a reminder. Thanks for the understanding and thanks for adding all the additional information. Annie 18:52, 4 October 2020 (EDT)

Ok, I'll dial it back. --GlennMcG 19:54, 4 October 2020 (EDT)
Thanks! If you are the only PV or you are adding extensive notes (which you often do), it is all yours - the HTML format is supported and acceptable. It is the multi-PVed ones where someone is only adding a small piece of info -- if any of the other PVs decides to, they can just go and undo the html again -- which will lead to editing wars. So we thread lightly. And it goes in the other direction as well - removing html for the sake of removal will be frowned upon as well. :) Annie
I check my altered PVs and use that as a feedback indication, rather than a call to arms. --GlennMcG 20:04, 4 October 2020 (EDT)

Interviews and special naming rules

Hi Glenn,

Interviews and reviews are the two types of titles that seemingly have two authors. However, due to how the DB works, only one can be varianted into a canonical name - the Interviewer and the Reviewer respectively as they are considered the authors per our definition. However - we still show the statistics for the other 2 -- and if we cannot variant, it leaves the DB in a bit of a weird state (with titles on pseudonyms pages). That means that the Interviewee and the author of the reviewed work have to be recorded with their canonical names (a note can be added to specify how they were credited). I fixed it in one of your verified. It is one of those weird rules that make sense but are not intuitive (thus me trying to explain the reasoning). Let me know if you have any questions.

PS: This is one of the rules everyone forgets - so you are not alone in mixing these up :) Annie 01:48, 6 October 2020 (EDT)

For reviews, canonical name is not required. It merely needs to be a form already in the database (see Template:TitleFields:ReviewAuthor). If a review uses a recorded pseudonym, then we use that pseudonym. If it uses a variation of a recorded pseudonym, then we'd correct to the pseudonym. The review would then be linked to the variant title record and the software is smart enough to show the review on both the variant and parent title. See this review, variant, and parent for an example. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:08, 6 October 2020 (EDT)
Oops. Thanks for the correction and clarification on that one. You are right of course - for reviews the form of the name just need to exist and match the title we connect to. I came to explain the rule for interviews, decided to add the second special type and made a mess of it. Thanks for the catch. Annie 18:17, 6 October 2020 (EDT)

The Gadget Maker

Is this speculative fiction? The Wikipedia synopsis certainly doesn't make it seem so. It would seem to fall into our "Techno-thriller, political thriller and satire works set in a future indistinguishable from the present" (where the present is 1954) clause. Is their synopsis misleading? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:23, 6 October 2020 (EDT)

I haven't read it. I bought it many years ago thinking it was, but old-school techno-thriller seems to characterize accurately. I was thinking that stories about engineers making rockets seemed close. --GlennMcG 18:27, 6 October 2020 (EDT)
Okay, let's exclude it until you have a chance to read it. If you find that it has some speculative elements, we can unreject the submission. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:30, 6 October 2020 (EDT)
Could you point me at where it talks about the scope for the site? Thanks. --GlennMcG 18:35, 6 October 2020 (EDT)
Sure. It's ISFDB:Policy#Contents.2FProject_Scope_Policy. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:37, 6 October 2020 (EDT)

Don Lynch --> Howard Koslow?

Hi Glenn, please take a look at this possible finding. Right now, you seem to be the only available PV editor. Would you like to comment over at the noticeboard (and possibly take action)? Christian Stonecreek 04:30, 7 October 2020 (EDT)

Cerulean Sins

You really should change the cover here - a /P/ Amazon image can be changed at any time :) Annie 02:22, 8 October 2020 (EDT)

Never mind - apparently you did on a next update ;) Annie 02:24, 8 October 2020 (EDT)

Novel ending page

Hello. Just a heads-up. For publications where the printed page numbers go beyond the end of the novel, add a note stating "Novel ends on page xxx" (I could swear this is somewhere in the rules, but couldn't find it... ah well... still think it's a good idea to add it to the notes :). Here for example, you updated the page count from 531 to 549, and added an excerpt starting on p535. This leads me to believe that the novel proper ended on p.531, correct? Regards, MagicUnk 10:00, 24 October 2020 (EDT)

Same for this one MagicUnk 10:28, 24 October 2020 (EDT)

Winter Song

Hi have your submission on hold, as I wonder if it wouldn't be better to state that the US edition has the author's name in Orange, instead of outright deleting the statement? Like you did when you updated the US edition ? MagicUnk 10:08, 24 October 2020 (EDT)

Resubmitted per your suggestion. --GlennMcG 14:19, 24 October 2020 (EDT)

King's Property

I approved this one but looking at the one we have here, it seems like it is a duplicate. The 11st seems like a typo for 1st and the price being the same in both Canada and USA kinda points to the original record being also a first edition - an 11th will be much later so at least one of the prices should be different. Would you like to update the old record and add your notes and updates there? Sorry for not catching it before approval. Thanks! Annie 13:52, 25 October 2020 (EDT)

The Sapphire Rose

You are PV2 on the sapphire Rose by David Eddings. Either you or PV1 named the map The Sapphire Rose (maps) with the 1992 publication date. If you check your copy I think you will see it is signed and dated 1988. This map was used in all three books of the Elenium. In fact, the publisher refers to this map as the Eosia map on the copyright page of the first book in the next series. Let me know if you have a problem with me changing this. Scifibones 14:53, 25 October 2020 (EDT)

Fine with me. --GlennMcG 19:05, 25 October 2020 (EDT)


Hello Glenn. I noticed that you added Auto-da-Fé as a replacement for Auto-da-Fe (without accent aigu) to the 1967 publication Turning On, but with the same publication year (1961). However, as far as we know the variant Auto-da-Fé was first published in the 1967 edition of Turning On (or perhaps for the first time in the 1966 edition Turning On: Thirteen Stories), surely not in 1961. So I've updated the year of first publication of Auto-da-Fé as 1967. Let me know if you would disagree (and why).

As an aside, there seems to be a similar problem with Semper Fi, which seems to have been first published as Satisfaction in 1964-08. The first occurrence of Semper Fi (at least in our DB) is not earlier than 1966-08 (the first edition of Turning On - so seems like Satisfaction is a variant of Semper Fi instead of the other way around. Regards, MagicUnk 16:28, 23 November 2020 (EST)

When a story gets more popular under a later title, we use the LATER name as a canonical title. This is the case with Semper Fi so reversing the variant is not needed even if there is a SINGLE publication under a different title before that. Canonical title does not always mean "first title". Annie 17:12, 23 November 2020 (EST)

Sun in Glory: And Other Tales of Valdemar

Regarding this and this - are "Sun in Glory" "And Other Tales of Valdemar" exactly the same size on the title page? If not, then the way we have it now is correct - a subtitle is added by adding ":" between it and the title. The only case when your proposed change will be valid is if "and..." is not a subtitle but appears as part of the title itself (same font, same size) on the title page. Thanks! Annie 23:35, 17 January 2021 (EST)

It's a different font size, but the 'and' is lower case. My feeling is that the font is smaller on the second line because the words wouldn't fit otherwise. I took the subtitle instructions It is sometimes a judgement call as to whether a change of font or a colon indicates a subtitle or just some creative license on the part of the typesetter. If in doubt, take your best guess and document the guess in the publication's notes. as an indication of some leeway allowed in the rule.
There's some additional rationale I left on on Marc Kupper's talk page. --GlennMcG 05:00, 18 January 2021 (EST)
Yeah, I know it is a subjective clause and I saw that we have the rest of the series in a different way. However both OCLC and LCCN threat is as a subtitle and inject the ":" in there. The lower case is not that unusual - capitalizing the subtitle's first word when it is one of the small words is not the rule in all the style formats... Let me think on that for a bit. Annie 17:00, 18 January 2021 (EST)

The Horse and His Boy

Hi Glenn, I've accepted your submission, but can you double check this pub record's date, as I suspect that the pub date must be 1976-00-00 (per your notes) iso 1974? Thanks! Regards, MagicUnk 11:49, 5 February 2021 (EST)

Thanks! Edit submitted. --GlennMcG 16:18, 5 February 2021 (EST)

Publishers vs Publication series

Hi, why do you want books published as Ace Fantasy to be under a separate publisher 'Ace Fantasy Books', instead of putting those books in the publication series 'Ace Fantasy'. Is Ace Fantasy Books at a different address than Ace Science fiction, or are they in fact two desks in the same office? Please explain.--Dirk P Broer 08:07, 6 February 2021 (EST)

The same with Tor.--Dirk P Broer 08:09, 6 February 2021 (EST)
For the Ace ones, they are listed as Ace Fantasy Books on the cover, title page, and copyright page. The only address given is for the Berkeley Publishing Group. It is a separate imprint and not a pub series. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:40, 6 February 2021 (EST)
If the same holds true for the four that are now given as pub series we have to enter them likewise, not like the hodge-podge it is now.--Dirk P Broer 08:57, 6 February 2021 (EST)
To complicate matters, there are Ace 'fantasy' books that really seem to be a publication series, in that they say 'Fantasy' on the spine, but not the title page. Tor seems to be more consistent, in that the spine and title page always matches, at least that I've seen. --GlennMcG 18:28, 6 February 2021 (EST)
I just noticed the edit [5] from Dirk that removed the pub series marker. However there is a 'Fantasy' marker on the top of spine (but not the title page). Not sure what the rules are for pub series. --GlennMcG 18:38, 6 February 2021 (EST)
See our wiki.--Dirk P Broer 10:46, 7 February 2021 (EST)
If there exist fantasy pubs published by Ace Books (and not by Ace Fantasy Books), then I guess that edit should be reversed, and notes added to both the pub and the pub series record to clarify. (And perhaps a note cautioning editors not to delete the pub series)MagicUnk 02:54, 7 February 2021 (EST)
Sounds like a good idea, explaining in the notes why the book should be in a publication series named 'fantasy' while such is not evident from cover, nor title page.--Dirk P Broer 10:44, 7 February 2021 (EST)
It's not clear to me what criteria should be used to decide something is a publication series. It seems obvious with cover markup like Jim Baen Present or Ace Science Fiction Special, but is a single category word like Fantasy on the spine enough? My assumption is that the imprint takes priority over pub series, e.g., publications wouldn't be both in pub series Ace Fantasy and imprint Ace Fantasy Books simultaneously. --GlennMcG 15:42, 7 February 2021 (EST)
There is no restriction imposed, so it is possible to have pub series Ace Fantasy and imprint Ace Fantasy Books simultaneously. Whether that is the right choice depends on what's on or in the books, even how the series is perceived, how it is marketed, etc... If there's fantasy on the spine of publications by imprint Ace Fantasy Books, I'd record it as such - and add clarifying notes all over the place :) One advantage of doing so is that you could link fantasy pubs by Ace Books with fantasy pubs by Ace Fantasy Books when using the same pub series name (provided of course these can be considered part of the same publication series, only published by (slightly) different publishers) - it has happened before (for example when a publisher started a series, which later became an imprint of another publisher who took over/merged with the first). MagicUnk 08:04, 8 February 2021 (EST)

ISBN 0-87997-133-9

Hi, For both the DAW publications The Stone That Never Came Down UY1150 and Spawn of Laban UQ1133 you derived the ISBN-10 from the catalog number. Problem is that the ISBN-10 is in both cases 0-87997-133-9...--Dirk P Broer 05:13, 23 February 2021 (EST)

Ooops. Accidently used the DAW# instead of the catalog number when generating. Edit submitted. Thanks. --GlennMcG 15:34, 23 February 2021 (EST)

Exiled from Earth

Added cover artist John Mardon for this. Same cover art as this edition. --Mavmaramis 03:29, 8 March 2021 (EST)

Thanks --GlennMcG 16:23, 8 March 2021 (EST)


Added a note to this edition. --Mavmaramis 02:31, 18 March 2021 (EDT)

Sheri or Sherri?

[6] should be by Sheri S. Tepper. Can you check and fix if needed? --Username 14:19, 28 March 2021 (EDT)

Fixed. --GlennMcG 16:36, 28 March 2021 (EDT)

Outcasts of Order

Hi Glen, you are the PV for a pb edition of Outcasts of Order. I have been consolidating the names of the three maps used throughout this series. The relevant maps for this book are The World (Saga of Recluce) (map) and Candar and Recluce (map). I would be happy to import them for you. Let me know. John Scifibones 18:51, 6 April 2021 (EDT)

Go for it. --GlennMcG 19:26, 6 April 2021 (EDT)

Recluse maps

All three maps were set up and the different names were merged. If you are verifying any that do not yet have the maps, go ahead and import them. I thought I got all the through book 20, but, I could have missed one. Just look at the HC for any title you are verifying to see the appropriate map. You will catch on to the naming scheme I used. John Scifibones 19:20, 9 April 2021 (EDT)

Just looked at some of your latest PV's. You will need to do some importing. If a pub had no PV, Annie asked me to leave it blank. Scifibones 19:29, 9 April 2021 (EDT)d

I'm unfamiliar with the import process. From the sound of it, it's different than just editing the publication and adding titles, but I'm not sure where to start.
Would you like me to do them, or try to explain the procedure.? I will be glad to do either. If you would like me to do them, make sure you have PV all of yours so I can tell which pubs are yours. So far Death of Chaos and Fall of Angels are the only ones missing the maps. John Scifibones 21:41, 9 April 2021 (EDT)
I've got the imports figured out and am progressing through the series. --GlennMcG 19:00, 10 April 2021 (EDT)
I'm glad you are doing it on your own. Be careful, you have imported the wrong map to Natural Ordermage. The second map should be Hamor (map). If your not sure which are the correct maps, you can look at the three map title pages and you will see which books use each map.Scifibones 19:12, 10 April 2021 (EDT)
I just noticed a Hamor map, but your link points at 'world'. Was in the process of looking for the proper map. --GlennMcG 19:14, 10 April 2021 (EDT)
Sorry about that! . Watch out for Arms-Commander, just uses one map. John 19:54, 9 April 2021 (EDT)
Edit submitted for Natural Ordermage. I noticed the single map at least. --GlennMcG 19:23, 10 April 2021 (EDT)
So you found this map? Hamor(mapScifibones 19:27, 10 April 2021 (EDT)
Yep. Had a problem for a bit, but changed search from 'fiction titles' to 'all titles' and found it then. --GlennMcG 19:29, 10 April 2021 (EDT

Check which map you imported into "The Mongrel Mage". Scifibones 12:18, 11 April 2021 (EDT)

It looks ok to me. What issue are you seeing? --GlennMcG 16:34, 11 April 2021 (EDT)
I just looked at my book again to check. The second map should be the "Hamor (map)" not the "Candor and Recluce (map)" . Hit me up anytime John Scifibones 16:45, 11 April 2021 (EDT)
I just checked again, and my copy of the book has "Candar and Recluse" as the 2nd map. --GlennMcG 16:47, 11 April 2021 (EDT)
Interesting, the publisher printed the wrong one in one of them. I haven't read it yet, so I can't sy which. Lol. Scifibones 16:53, 11 April 2021 (EDT)
I've read them, and the Candar map is correct. Volumes 19-21 are a subseries with the same main character. I'd guess that the HC had the wrong map, and it got fixed for the PB edition. Perhaps we should add some notes. --!GlennMcG 17:04, 11 April 2021 (EDT)
I'll try to get hold of a HC copy of "Mage-Fire War" this week and see if it is corrected there. Then a note will probably be in order. I'll let you know what I find out. John 17:10, 11 April 2021 (EDT)
Yes, please, add notes for that weird map changing between formats :) And this is exactly why I am a bit careful before adding maps to editions that someone does not have access to. Thanks for working on these, gentlemen! Annie 01:35, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
I went ahead and submitted the following note for "The Mongrel Mage". Tor erroneously included the map of "Hamor" on pages [10]-[11]. The map featuring "Candar and Recluce" is the proper map. This was corrected by the 1st printing of the mass market paperback, verified <a href="">Here</a> (only Here will show) . I'm borrowing "Mage-Fire War" tonight, although I expect it is correct since "Outcasts of Order" is correct. Scifibones 13:54, 12 April 2021 (EDT)
I just noticed that you didn't change the publisher to Tor Fantasy. Is the hardcover not marked so on the title page? --GlennMcG 16:21, 13 April 2021 (EDT)
Nope, still just Tor. Scifibones 19:51, 13 April 2021 (EDT)
Just to make sure... there's no little shield with 'Tor Fantasy' over it on the bottom of the title page... My Tor fantasy HCs have such. (in other titles). More fully, I'd expect
Just checked Mage-Fire HC look-inside on Amazon and saw just the plain Tor. Oh well, more inconsistencies between formats. --GlennMcG 20:31, 13 April 2021 (EDT)
I have The Mongrel Mage open in front of me. No shield. "Tor" (over) "Tom Doherty Associates Book" (over) "New York". I worked late today so I am picking up Mage-Fire War at lunch tomorrow. If it shows Tor Fantasy I will surely make the change when I verify it. I promise to post a note here and let you know. I will also double check Outcasts of Order. It's always possible I could have missed it there. Scifibones 21:08, 13 April 2021 (EDT)
Outcasts of Order is just Tor. The only 2 I see, in the Recluce series, are the first two books. I posted a note Here to see how they want me to handle these. I never even paid attention to them, glad you pointed it out. Scifibones 13:08, 14 April 2021 (EDT)

Tor® | fantasy | shield with stars on top, mountain below | A Tom Doherty Associates Book | New York Do you plan on doing the maps for the Imager series? Just started my PV pass there. --GlennMcG 21:44, 10 April 2021 (EDT)

I will at some point, right now I'm making an effort to verify more of my collection. Next time I do one, if pb's are involved, I'll solicit your help. Interested? John Scifibones 10:08, 11 April 2021 (EDT)
I've started the Imager series with using shared maps in mind. And sure, let me know if you would like help in the future. --GlennMcG 16:34, 11 April 2021 (EDT)

Day of the Dragonstar


Would you mind checking this discussion? Thanks1 :) Annie 12:31, 12 April 2021 (EDT)

Can you stop by and check something in this one again? We are trying to determine if the German one is a translation of the serial or the book and Christian has questions about the serial. Annie 16:23, 13 April 2021 (EDT)

Manifold: Time

I'm changing title to conform to standards, removing the series name for Manifold: Time. John Scifibones 13:00, 16 April 2021 (EDT) I also removed the cover art title, "Jacket design by David Stevenson from HC"

This not attempt to dissuade you from the change, but give some thoughts about why I didn't do this removal while PVing.
I'm more likely to keep the series name in the title if it seems to be intrinsically part of the title. So a series subtitle seems less intrinsic than one that comes first with a following colon, like Manifold: Time. And a title like Lucky Starr and the Pirates of the Asteroids I would never attempt the removal upon. --GlennMcG 17:40, 17 April 2021 (EDT)
The moderators asked me to make this change in all the publications of the trilogy. I was actually arguing in favor of your position. Originally I posted a link to the conversation, but, on second thought, ask Annie directly. She will explain it better than reading through the original back and forth. Scifibones 21:26, 18 April 2021 (EDT)
Here's the conversation. Regards, MagicUnk 10:04, 19 April 2021 (EDT)

To Clear Away the Shadows

I recently read the book, and I was surprised to find that the book contains all new characters, different from anyone in the preceding 12 books. I asked a question in the help desk wiki about how to know when a new sub-series was starting, and Annie said to leave it for now and put a note into it. So I did. I also asked David Drake what his plans were on his website. We'll see what he says, or what he does. Jack Sjmathis 10:09, 17 April 2021 (EDT)

Lost in Translation

Would you mind double checking the cover art credit for Lost in Translation? It is common for people to see "Courtney" when the artist's actual name is Cortney Skinner. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:42, 18 April 2021 (EDT)

Spelled with a 'u' on the copyright page. (Courtney) --GlennMcG 15:19, 18 April 2021 (EDT)

Dangerous Visions

I picked up a copy of this and note that it states gutter codes are printed on page 544. My copy definately has "Book Club Edition" at bottom of front flap and the number 1179 on the rear flap but alas page 544 has no code at all. Is there anywhere else within the book a gutter code might have been printed ? --Mavmaramis 13:09, 22 April 2021 (EDT)

I have '46I' on the bottom of page 539. In general, start at the end and work your way back 5 or 10 pages. --GlennMcG 14:55, 22 April 2021 (EDT)
Thank you. That was very helpful. --Mavmaramis 01:15, 23 April 2021 (EDT)

Publisher New Infinities


Another user left a note on my talk page questioning the difference between the publishers New Infinities Productions / Ace and New Infinities / Ace. I double checked my book and the publisher is credited as "New Infinity Productions, Inc." throughout the book, including the cover and spine logo. You are one of the only two active verifiers who has a book by the publisher with the shorter name (and in fact, I have a copy of the same book). While I don't think we need to include "Inc.", I do think the longer name is more appropriate. Do you have any objections if I merge these two publishers taking the longer name? I'm checking with the other active verifier as well. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:31, 23 April 2021 (EDT)

Ok with me. --GlennMcG 18:52, 23 April 2021 (EDT)

Sporting Chance

I approved your changes to Sporting Chance, but I eliminate the [3] pages and put the [24] pages of the excerpt in parens instead. This makes the pagination in the contents clearer, and noone will miss the three pages in between. Bob 17:59, 24 April 2021 (EDT)

Another map consolidation

Hi Glenn, As a PV of many volumes please follow link to review proposed changes to Magic Kingdom of Landover map consolidation. Hopefully you thought the last one was beneficial. John, Scifibones 19:27, 24 April 2021 (EDT)

Victory Conditions

I approved your submission Victory Conditions, but one thing you should know. When you enter the Canadian price for a pub use "C$xx.xx", not just "$xx.xx". Canadian and U.S. dollars are not the same. Bob 22:49, 24 April 2021 (EDT)

Leftovers from the previous version of the notes. I just changed the number line. --GlennMcG 05:42, 25 April 2021 (EDT)

First Lord's Fury

Added a couple notes and ext id to First Lord's Fury. Noticed you called the map "First Lord's Fury (map)" even though it has a title "The Realm of Alera". In fact there are two title records with that name. Do you have an objection to merging your title into "The Realm of Alera (map)" with those? John Scifibones 14:06, 5 May 2021 (EDT)

No objection. --GlennMcG 15:06, 5 May 2021 (EDT)

Turn Coat]

Added pub note to Turn Coat John Scifibones 14:47, 5 May 2021 (EDT) --Scifibones 14:48, 5 May 2021 (EDT)

Cuckoo's Egg

I added this note --"Cover painting by Randall Asplund" credited on rear flap, the artwork is signed ©1985 Randy Aspland on back cover-- to Cuckoo's Egg. Hope you don't mind. John Scifibones 19:58, 11 May 2021 (EDT)

Chanur's Legacy

Adding a couple pub notes to Chanur's Legacy John Scifibones 11:50, 12 May 2021 (EDT)


Cover artist for this is Jack Faragasso. Cover art credit from a signed print of the artwork for sale on the US Amazon site here: --Mavmaramis 13:11, 13 May 2021 (EDT)

Proposed Map Consolidation

As a PV of at least one publication of Inheritor or Precursor , please take a moment to look at Foreigner Map Consolidation and leave your comments. Thanks, John Scifibones 16:20, 13 May 2021 (EDT)

Go for it. --GlennMcG 16:22, 13 May 2021 (EDT)
Submitted edit today John Scifibones 09:18, 19 May 2021 (EDT)

Winds of the Forelands

I have two questions related to the Winds of the Forelands series.

  1. I noticed we have different cover artists credited for the hc and pb versions of Bonds of Vengeance. The covers look very similar, would you mind double checking?
My paperback says "Cover art by Gary Ruddell" on the back cover.
  1. I am the sole verifier of all the hc editions with one exception, Same for you for the pb editions. I set up a title Winds of the Forelands (map) Do you mind if I merge in the different map titles?
They're probably the same between hc and pb, but unless one of us scans and shares somehow, and the other compares, it's just a guess. But in general, merging maps that are identical is fine with me.

I hope I'm not bothering you with all these requests. You have such an impressive library, you always have books included in my proposed merges. I hate having multiple titles for the same artwork. John Scifibones 09:37, 19 May 2021 (EDT)

No problem with the requests. The map merging wasn't on my radar when I started PVing about almost a year ago. I've been working through the novel/collection section of my library, and I'm up to 'N'. Finish them, then anthologies, and then shared world crud. And then digest magazines. Maybe a couple more years? --GlennMcG 16:27, 19 May 2021 (EDT)
Thanks for checking the artist credit. I'll import the map into "Bonds of Vengeance" while I'm at it. That is the only pb pub that didn't have a map entry. John Scifibones 17:23, 19 May 2021 (EDT)
Done. John Scifibones 08:15, 21 May 2021 (EDT)

The Final Encyclopedia

Added couple pub notes and imported Afterword: The Door into Darkness into The Final Encyclopedia. John Scifibones 10:12, 25 May 2021 (EDT)

The Chantry Guild

Added a couple design credits to The Chantry Guild. John Scifibones 10:23, 25 May 2021 (EDT)

The Belgariad: Part One

Made a pub date change, added some notes and OCLC to The Belgariad: Part One You will see another change when I import the map title. John Scifibones 11:14, 5 June 2021 (EDT)

Riftwar Universe

Hi Glen, I have submitted edits for many of the HC's in the Riftwar Universe. You are a PV'er for some of these. Wanted to let you know. John Scifibones 14:07, 13 June 2021 (EDT)

Commune 2000 A.D. / Mack Reynolds

Putting this entry in my messages for multiple commenters...

While PVing Commune 2000 A.D. / Mack Reynolds I noticed that the cover with '30p' doesn't match mine without. Do your copies look like the cover in the entry?

It appears from the edit history that BLongley added the note about 30p and Corgi, but it's not clear to me if he was referring to the cover image, or his copy of the book.

I can update the image with a scan of my copy, but wanted to know if appropriate. (I currently have an edit pending with additional changes).

--GlennMcG 02:26, 6 July 2021 (EDT)

My copy has no '30p'. I'll move my verification to this edition that was probably entered by Bluesman in 2013 for the same reason. I.m.o. we should change the publisher of Bill Longley's copy to Bantam / Corgi and the price to £0.30. Unfortunately we can't ask Bill anymore. --Willem 04:39, 6 July 2021 (EDT)
ps, I fixed your link, it didn't work and thanks for noticing this! --Willem 04:41, 6 July 2021 (EDT)
I moved my verification as well. Thanks. Bob 09:28, 6 July 2021 (EDT)
I have moved my verification to the original Bantam version as well. Good catch! Ahasuerus 09:52, 6 July 2021 (EDT)

Is someone going to edit the 30p record? Or was that an indirect request for me to do so? --GlennMcG 15:23, 6 July 2021 (EDT)

I did since nobody opposed my suggestion. --Willem 15:52, 6 July 2021 (EDT)
The only thing that seems odd with your suggestion is that that's the only book by this 'new' publisher. Is the intent that it should be used for books with Bantam covers with the price overprint? If so, perhaps a note in the publisher indicating so. --GlennMcG 16:31, 6 July 2021 (EDT)

The Last 14

Hi GlennMcG - Could I get you to check the title page of this publication? Clute/Nicholls, Reginald1 and Worldcat all have the title as "The Last Fourteen". Tuck has it as we do. Given the discrepancy, I wonder if the title page perhaps has the number spelled out. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:23, 6 August 2021 (EDT)

The title page has it spelled out as THE LAST FOURTEEN. Sorry I missed that when PVing. --GlennMcG 19:49, 6 August 2021 (EDT)
I checked my copy and changed the title to conform with the titlepage. Thanks! --Willem 16:38, 7 August 2021 (EDT)


Regarding this submission: We already have an entry for the first Avon edition. This entry looks like a duplicate? -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:56, 7 August 2021 (EDT)

There appears to be two versions. One with a regular cover as shown, and one with the plastic lens in front of the artwork forming a 3d effect. It's not clear (to me) if they came out concurrently, or at different times. I didn't want to just change the existing one, as the cover doesn't match my copy. Also note that it includes a different excerpt. --GlennMcG 15:33, 7 August 2021 (EDT)
Sorry for the delay. The edit has been approved. I still question whether the original version is correct. It has "Data from Locus1. OCLC notes there is an excerpt from the next book in the series." and no page numbers even though it was verified. That implies the verifier didn't take much care when verifying it, but looking at the pub history, I see they are the ones that added the excerpt. Unfortunately, they have not been active in almost a year so we will have to go with what's there. -- JLaTondre (talk) 20:58, 13 August 2021 (EDT)

Aymé's Walker-Through-Walls


Could I get you to double check the title page of this collection? I am suspicious of the hyphen between "The" and "Walker". Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 15:55, 14 August 2021 (EDT)

THE | WALKER- | THROUGH- | WALLS | Originally published as | ACROSS PARIS and Other Stories
--GlennMcG 17:25, 14 August 2021 (EDT)

Thuvia, Maid of Mars

I have cloned this pub of Thuvia, Maid of Mars as there are two variations differentiated by the address and the ad at the end. Your primary verification may be incorrect. The edit and clone were just submitted. Given the backlog, I expect a few days before they are processed. ../Doug H 16:31, 24 August 2021 (EDT)

The Monster Men

I have cloned this pub of The Monster Men as there are two variations differentiated by the ad at the end. Your primary verification may be incorrect. The edit and clone were just submitted. Given the backlog, I expect a few days before they are processed. ../Doug H 16:31, 24 August 2021 (EDT)

The Moon Maid

I have cloned this pub of The Moon Maid as there are two variations differentiated by the publisher address. Your primary verification may be incorrect. The edit and clone were just submitted. Given the backlog, I expect a few days before they are processed. ../Doug H 16:31, 24 August 2021 (EDT)

Blood Magic Series

Would you mind if I changed the series name "Blood Magic" to "Blood Magic (Cook)" for titles Blood Magic and Nights of Sin? I accidentally added the 7 titles in a newer Blood Magic series to the existing one. Since the older one only has two members, it would be easier to change the series name for just those two titles. Thanks. Phil 22:17, 26 August 2021 (EDT)

Not a problem. Although it might make sense to rename the other series to Blood Magic (Kraus/Lawrence) as well. --GlennMcG 22:52, 26 August 2021 (EDT)
That does makes sense. I'll do that as well. Thanks. Phil 07:26, 27 August 2021 (EDT)

Splitting some Burroughs publications you have verified

Some existing Burroughs publications you have PV'd have two variants that need to be split. You have verified Monster Men, The Moon Maid, Pirates of Venus, Tarzan and the Lost Empire and Thuvia Maid of Mars

Please check this poll to help determine which variant is the existing entry, and which is created. Your participation is appreciated. ../Doug H 23:35, 26 August 2021 (EDT)

Hagberg Flash Gordon credit

You are the only active verifier of several books in the Flash Gordon series by David Hagberg. All of these have a note that Hagberg is not credited within the book. Do you have any objection if I correct the publication records to reflect that Hagberg is uncredited? Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:17, 6 September 2021 (EDT)

I'm not sure what you want to do. Is it to change the author from Hagberg to uncredited on the publication records? --GlennMcG 02:29, 7 September 2021 (EDT)
Yes, that's part of it. I would then unmerge the publication from Hadberg's title record and remerge them to the uncredited variant. I did this with the one book in the series where there were no active verifiers, if you'd like to see how it would look. Books without an author credit should be entered as uncredited and if we know the actual author's name, as in this case, we make them variants with the author's name in the parent title. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:19, 7 September 2021 (EDT)
I take it that authors work differently than cover artists then? I've seen any number of publications with cover artist uncredited in/on the book, but filled in from other sources. --GlennMcG 18:02, 7 September 2021 (EDT)
Yes. Artists follow different rules. For example we never enter a cover artist as "uncredited". Also it is permissible to credit an artist from a secondary source outside of the book. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:20, 7 September 2021 (EDT)
Sure, then go for it. --GlennMcG 00:28, 8 September 2021 (EDT)
All done. Thanks! --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:29, 8 September 2021 (EDT)

The Well of Ascension

Why removing the date from here? The note looks like a first printing? Annie 19:51, 8 September 2021 (EDT)

Never mind - inverted line. Annie 21:09, 8 September 2021 (EDT)

Black|Gold|Red Unicorn - Tanith Lee

The publisher for Black|Gold is 'Tor & Byron Preiss'. My copy of Gold seems like it should really be 'Tor Fantasy & Byron Preiss'. Black|Gold are the only instances of this publisher. Ron, would you check your copies? Taweiss is a PVer for Red which is currently 'Tor'. Conceivably, it should be changed to 'Tor Fantasy', or 'Tor Fantasy & Byron Preiss' as well.

Black: [7] Gold: [8] Red: [9]

Thanks. --GlennMcG 15:34, 23 September 2021 (EDT)

My copies of the paperbacks for Black and Gold do have the Tor Fantasy logo. I also have the hardcover of Red, and that is simply Tor. A Byron Preiss Book appears in all copies that I have access to, including those published by Atheneum. I'm fine with the addition of Fantasy to the records discussed. I'm ambivalent about the inclusion of Preiss. Is it a co-publication, imprint, or is he simply the editor? Hope this helps. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:15, 23 September 2021 (EDT)
The fact that 'Byron Preiss' shows up in the Athenium editions makes me feel like its more a contributor credit, rather than a publisher. --GlennMcG 01:24, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
Based on my copy of "Red", "Tor Fantasy" looks right to me. TAWeiss 18:24, 25 September 2021 (EDT)

Fire Sanctuary

Cover artist for this (according to Adam Rowe's 70s Sci-Fi Art postings) is Don Dixon. It's also credited here. --Mavmaramis 12:31, 24 September 2021 (EDT)

Feghoot LXIX

Hi Glenn

While importing Feghoots from your copy of The Compleat Feghoot, I noticed that Feghoot LXIX appears to be a limerick and I think we should probably change it from a story to a poem. I left a note on the other verifier's page, but they haven't been active in the last month. If you agree, I'll go ahead and make the change. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:56, 7 October 2021 (EDT)

I checked, and I agree. Fine with me. --GlennMcG 21:20, 7 October 2021 (EDT)

I, Zombie

I understand that the publisher used all caps on the copyright page for this but unless you clarify that specifically in the note, it looks like someone is shouting and someone may decide to clear it up. Yes - I know that the quotes mean "from the book as is" in your template but... that is your convention and people may have other ones. So some notes in cases like that are important (even just adding (from the copyright page) after the closing quote will be enough to indicate where this came from). I'd use normal capitalization (and add a note in brackets after it saying that it is in all caps on the copyright page) quite honestly if I were you... but up to you. Thanks! Annie 21:34, 8 October 2021 (EDT)

It seems like quotation marks have a fairly well known meaning even outside the conventions I use when entering notes. Not sure how to quote something without actually quoting it. --GlennMcG 21:48, 8 October 2021 (EDT)
For quoting the text - yes. For showing the styling of the text (as opposed to an editor making it all caps so it is more visible on the page as the only thing they want to quote from the book) - not always as clear - we had had editors using all kinds of ways to separate the "from the book verbatim" from the actual notes and all caps, italics and so on had not been unheard of. And your other quote from the same page is not even in quotes (the number line). Leave it as is if you prefer but someone may decide to "fix" it one day. :) Annie 21:56, 8 October 2021 (EDT)

The Duchess of Kneedeep

Cover art for this has been identified as Richard Bober. Original canvas with citation here. --Mavmaramis 10:45, 13 October 2021 (EDT)

The Law of War

Let's talk about this one. How is Henderson involved in this novel? Because the record as it is now is very very confused and needs fixing - but I need to know how Henderson is involved so we do the correct thing. Thanks! Annie 01:31, 14 October 2021 (EDT)

Obliquely credited co-author, like the first volume in the series. I've been trying a sequence of edits to make it parallel to Man O'War, but I'm pretty sure I haven't taken the most direct path. --GlennMcG 15:20, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
You are going in the opposite direction from where you need to go. What needs to happen:
  • The ones inside of the publications remain with Shatner only. This should not have been approved because now you need to eject THAT from both books and insert another which makes no sense. Reversing it will mean that only one step remains:
  • Create a parent with Henderson and Shatner.
I've reversed the edit and made the needed parent. Here is the new parent. I will leave it to you to add a note explaining Henderson's involvement.
When crediting for ghost-writing, leave the titles inside of the books on their own (as credited basically), all you need is a parent record with both names on it. That way it will show up on both authors' bibliographies while the title inside of the book will match what is on the publication (which is how the DB is supposed to work).
If the ghost writer was not a known author, we would threat it as a pseudonym (the help page even says that - that's when there is some rigmarole to be done with variants) but as Henderson has his own books, that does not work. Thus the double name on a parent to show it on both. Let me know if you have any questions.  :) Annie 15:28, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
Should the note go in the title or the publication? --GlennMcG 16:12, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
I'd add it on both quite honestly? Annie 16:26, 14 October 2021 (EDT)
But if you want one - title level. That will explain to someone finding the variant why we have Henderson in the parent. :) Annie 16:40, 14 October 2021 (EDT)

War of the Worlds: New Millennuim

Hi Glenn,

Are you sure that your verified is called "War of the Worlds: New Millennuim" and not "War of the Worlds: New Millennium" (the last i and u are inverted). :) Annie 07:07, 20 October 2021 (EDT)

You caught me. I'd go with 'iu' normally. --GlennMcG 16:00, 20 October 2021 (EDT)
And fixed. The title record, the rest of the pubs and the cover were already fixed earlier today so we are all set. Thanks! :) Annie 16:03, 20 October 2021 (EDT)

The Nimrod Hunt

Since you are submitting significant changes (page counts, publisher), you need to discuss the changes with the primary verifiers first. As far as I can tell, none of them have been contacted. Please contact them (the active ones, anyway) and have them post here. Thanks! ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 10:45, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

Please include your name in request. --GlennMcG 16:15, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
History: Nihonjoe forgot to sign. Annie 16:31, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
This type of edit seems to be a expansion or refinement of the information already there, rather than a significant change, at least to me. --GlennMcG 16:36, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
I have checked my copy and the proposed changes match what it contains. That said, it's conceivable that some other verified pubs may be different. For example, the 8 unnumbered pages in the back of this book are mostly promotional material plus an excerpt. Since it's a mass market paperback published in the mid-1980s, it's unlikely that the number of pages will differ from copy to copy, but we have come across very minor differences which were our only clue that we were dealing with two different versions of the book (US/Canada, a cheap reprint, etc.) Experience suggests that it's safer to err on the side of caution :-) Ahasuerus 17:09, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

(unindent)(after edit conflict - and pulling that separately so the actual request to the PVs edit is more visible) Publisher changes and page number changes are significant changes (unless you are working on a pre-agreed thing like the Tor Fantasy thing where you actually discussed with the PVs early on.). Sometimes it may mean that there are two different books out there that we had not managed to split yet. Sometimes it can lead to a discussion on how to record the publisher in that specific case - there is a thin line sometimes between publisher, pub series inside of a publisher and a publishing line). In all cases not talking to the PVs when there are active ones on the list and when you had not cleared with them the type of changes you are making is considered in bad taste. :) Annie 17:12, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

Hmmm. I've made identical (parallel) edits to a fair number of books in the past without issue whiling PVing in the past. There's a trade off on bothering to record additional information vs the effort in doing so. I've done about 10,000 PVs in the last year or so, and have another 5,000 to go. I don't want to annoy folk, but the latency in getting approval tends to be somewhat off-putting. --GlennMcG 17:38, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
Moderators will skip over some of your edits (thus adding a long delay on them) because they are not cleared with the PVs. If you pre-clear with the PVs and mention it in the notes, the approvals will be a lot smoother. It is a community project and the point of the PV program is that someone checked a physical book for the parts of the record that are coming from it. That means that any change in the data they verified kinda invalidates their verification unless they recheck. We cannot do anything for the non-active verifiers. A moderator usually do not have the same book to be able to judge if you are correct or the existing record is correct. So we try to get the active PVs to check.
What is the point of a Primary Verification if tomorrow another editor can come and change the Publisher name and the page numbers or any other data coming directly from the book the PV verified? Should we just allow anyone to just change the data without even an attempt for a second person to look at the book? :) Annie 17:47, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
Then what is the changed primary verifications notification for? I check every one I receive, mostly as feedback to what I might do better, but also to see if there is a clash with my copy of the book. --GlennMcG 17:59, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
Relatively minor changes - notes, external IDs, formatting, adding a cover based on secondary sources, adding other data from secondary sources - things like that. And even for some of them, some editors will notify (especially for covers). It is a relatively new feature - the traditional way is to notify, preferably gaining support before the edit is done for big changes. Plus post approval, the old data is lost -- unless it was originally added in the last few years (so can be derived from a previous edit that is in the history), the old data is gone as soon as a moderator presses approve. Which means that if we need to revert back, we need to pull from the archived versions of the site which can be a pain.
And just to put this into perspective a bit. If a different editor looks at this book tomorrow, verifies it and decides that the Publisher should be "Baen", should that be approved just because they are the latest PV? Then you get a notification, decide to change it back and... what next? An editing war? We are doing all we can to never end up in that situation.
If you are now working on the Baen books, write up your thinking for the change as you did for Tor Fantasy changes, post in CS and ping the active PVs for the different books and point them there. Once we have agreement, just point to it in the notes - and we can approve bsed on that. Annie 18:11, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
My thinking was that if I saw a change in the notifications that I didn't agree with, I'd start a discussion at that point. But I've gone in and fixed html typos without such. And I understand the concept of institutional inertia. Not having a deterministic rollback mechanism seems foreign to me, as a software developer, everything is under source control. Any reason why the edit history entries don't contain before and after values? --GlennMcG 18:23, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
Typos do not require a notification on one's page - just add in the moderator notes that you are fixing typos so people know when they look at the edit post-approval and that's it. That's what the PV changes list is for. Noone will ask you to go talk to people about it. So do you propose that we allow any editor to change the data on any book any way they want and then wait for the PVs to complain after the fact?
The history records were never built to be a history - they are just the approved submissions for this ID. As such when the system was built, it was not considered important to keep the old state after approval - it is there during approval and there was no way to search through old submissions unless you page manually through the pages of the Recent Edits or go to the DB directly. So having "old state" was... not really needed much.
Then we linked the Histories on each type of a record a few years back by just listing the old submissions we know of on this ID into a list (and the changed PV books was born the same way). You will notice that the Histories miss the very old edits and they do not list changes that influenced/changed the record but were not on the record itself - so if you change a title via PubEdit, it is in the history of the Publication but not of the history of the Title itself. Now "old state" will be very useful to keep but it was not built that way. Starting to save "old state" is in the development plans somewhere but it is not trivial and there are a lot of things in the plans. Annie 18:49, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
By the way, I'm pretty sure we've already had a discussion about the various versions of the Baen publisher. I just can't find it anywhere. This gist of it was I wanted to know which one to use, when, and folks gave their input. I believe that Annie thought that the various versions were unneeded, but didn't go so far as to suggest merging them. --GlennMcG 20:32, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
I would not be surprised if that had been discussed. Baen's splitting in the DB is such a mess that we either need to figure out how to split them properly or drop the pretense that we are splitting it. However - a decision for getting them merged was not taken, neither we have a workable plan to fix the whole thing I believe. It is probably on an archived page in CS or Help Desk - will look for it later. But I don't recall a decision that indeed the books are updated based on specific text somewhere (aka - what credit makes it into that publisher). Neither would any moderator be expected to remember - if there is agreement, the editor should mention so in the moderator notes technically. Annie 20:42, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

(unindent)The Baen discussion. It was for Baen vs Baen Books. You are sending books out from one of these into a third player here, splintering the publisher even more. (which may or may not be fine but is essentially one editor's decision on how to record). And none of the PVs had been called in to chime in in that Help discussion or any plan had been voiced on how we differenciate. The discussion led no decision so the usual rules apply - PVs are to be consulted. :) Annie 20:48, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

If I had to reverse engineer the rules...
Unless the title page has some version of "Baen|Books" in a squashed hexagon logo, use Baen
Two versions use the hexagon, one with "Baen|Books", and one with "Baen|Science Fiction|Books". The Science Fiction is a smaller font and kind of jammed between the Baen and Books. Both publishers were in use before I got involved.
When I asked about this earlier, I hadn't run across the SF version yet. --GlennMcG 22:05, 21 October 2021 (EDT)
I am not arguing about what the publisher should be on this book - from what I saw above, one of the PVs agreed with you. We will give everyone a bit of time to see if someone else will voice an opinion. Neither we are really discussing the mess that is Baen/Baen Books.
What we were discussing is why PVs need to be consulted and why we cannot just approve and let them disagree if they want later. There was no question on your data or update - the request to you was to discuss with the rest of the people that have the book and can check and offer an opinion/agreement as per ISFDB's established policy. The first editor/PV of a book has some leeway on how to interpret data, especially when they are working with a newish publisher for the DB (not anymore but this is an old record so it was). The second one by necessity need to find agreement. Collaborative projects need to work based on agreements and not based on "last editor in the door makes up the rules and everyone else must react after their updates". That's the crux of the issue here. Yes, it slows things down. But otherwise it is not fair to the people before that.
I'd propose for you to start a new thread on the Help page to try to hash out the Baen situation if you are interested in actually helping solve it and untangle it -- invite the active PVs with books and let's see if we can clear the tangle of them. Annie 22:32, 21 October 2021 (EDT)

(unindent)I pulled out my copy of the book and read all this. The page number edit is correct. The help text allows both, but the square bracket notation is preferred. As for the publisher, front cover and copyright page have "Baen Books", spine and titlepage have "Baen Science Fiction Books". i.m.o. Baen, Baen Books and Baen Science Fiction Books should all be merged into Baen Books, so I have no problem with this change. There's one other thing, my copy has no Canadian price mentioned, I think the Canada note is a leftover from the time we had no separate records for Canadian editions and should be removed. --Willem 03:59, 22 October 2021 (EDT)

(Post moved to [10])

Dafydd ab Hugh's "Heroing (excerpt)" triplication


Idly clicking through the birthday authors on the home page, I notice there are 3 separate entries for "Heroing (excerpt)" in various Baen pubs from other authors. All have verifiers, but you're the only one who seems to be currently active at the moment. Are you able to check if these are all the same content, and thus should be merged? The pubs in question are:

I'm sure these all will be the same, but it seems best to check first before merging them. Thanks ErsatzCulture 07:47, 22 October 2021 (EDT)

I actually have all three, but haven't gotten to the last one yet. I've checked, and appear identical. All 3 pages long, beginning and end of each page the same. --GlennMcG 15:55, 22 October 2021 (EDT)
Thanks - merge submitted ErsatzCulture 17:46, 22 October 2021 (EDT)

Cryoburn notes changes

CD-ROM info added to Cryoburn Phil 13:21, 14 November 2021 (EST)


Changes to record for Acacia: Changed date to exact date. Updated the page count. Added notes. Added regular title for the included map. Pending submission here Phil 12:30, 21 November 2021 (EST)

The Knight of the Red Beard

Added notes to The Knight of the Red Beard. From personal copy. Phil 12:03, 27 November 2021 (EST)

Unicorn & Dragon

I added notes to Unicorn & Dragon prior to doing a PV. Phil 09:10, 6 December 2021 (EST)

The Chantry Guild

Added notes to The Chantry Guild before doing a PV. Phil 08:03, 14 December 2021 (EST)

Way of the Pilgrim

Added notes and LCCN to Way of the Pilgrim prior to doing a PV. Phil 08:24, 14 December 2021 (EST)

The Final Encyclopedia

Added notes, fixed page count to include unnumbered pages, added new regular title for the map to The Final Encyclopedia based on owned copy. Will PV. Phil 08:38, 14 December 2021 (EST)

The Belgariad: Part Two

While preparing to PV The Belgariad: Part Two, I discovered a missing map on unnumbered page [2]. Any problem if I add it, adjust the page numbers, and add notes? Phil 08:03, 16 December 2021 (EST)

The Belgariad: Part One

While preparing to PV The Belgariad: Part One, I discovered a missing frontispiece map. Any problem if I add it and add a note about the gutter code in my copy? Phil 08:20, 16 December 2021 (EST)

Fine with both. --GlennMcG 20:38, 16 December 2021 (EST)

Krondor: The Betrayal

While preparing to PV Krondor: The Betrayal, I noticed that the "Author's Afterword" on page 374 is missing. Any problem with my adding it? Phil 07:01, 17 December 2021 (EST)

No problem. --GlennMcG 14:49, 17 December 2021 (EST)

A Kingdom Besieged

Added notes and endpaper map title to A Kingdom Besieged before doing a PV. Phil 07:59, 17 December 2021 (EST)

Instrument of Fate

Could you please double check the Canadian price on Instrument of Fate? I believe it should be C$7.99 vs. C$9.99. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 12:12, 18 December 2021 (EST)

You're right. C$7.99 --GlennMcG 14:53, 18 December 2021 (EST)
Updated. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:58, 18 December 2021 (EST)

A Fall of Moondust

On verifying my copy of this pub, I noticed a statement on the backcover saying "Cover photograph by L. Krause Printed in USA". I would like to add the credit and change the note. Can you check your copy? Thanks, --Willem 14:42, 26 December 2021 (EST)

My copy has it as well. Fine by me. --GlennMcG 16:14, 26 December 2021 (EST)
Thanks! and done. --Willem 16:59, 26 December 2021 (EST)

The Bishop's Heir

There are three missing appendix titles in The Bishop's Heir. Would you mind if I add them? Phil 10:11, 1 January 2022 (EST)

Fine with me. --GlennMcG 15:18, 1 January 2022 (EST)

King Kelson's Bride and Saint Camber

There are two missing appendix titles in King Kelson's Bride. There are five missing appendix titles in Saint Camber. Would you mind if I add them? Phil 10:48, 2 January 2022 (EST)

No problem. --GlennMcG 15:37, 2 January 2022 (EST)

The Harrowing of Gwynedd

Would you mind if I add the missing Appendix titles to The Harrowing of Gwynedd? Thanks! Phil 11:26, 3 January 2022 (EST)

No problem with this, or other similar requests. --GlennMcG 15:46, 3 January 2022 (EST)
Do you still want me to post similar requests? There are likely to be a bunch more. :) Phil 16:37, 3 January 2022 (EST)
Not needed. My tradeoffs for doing PVs considered this type of material part of the main work, rather than needing separate entry. But mostly because I've been grinding through my ~15,000 books, and I wanted to finish some day.
I check 'My Changed Primary Verifications' regularly and in the unlikely case that I disagree strongly I'll bring up an issue then. --GlennMcG 17:22, 3 January 2022 (EST)

The Forge of God / multiple covers

I invite your comment on this discussion. Thank you. Fjh 12:28, 7 January 2022 (EST)

The Revenants

Regarding The Revenants: If the cover artist credit is "Kinuku Craft", then that is how the cover art should be entered. Can you please confirm and either update or I can if you wish? -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:17, 9 January 2022 (EST)

The Seed

I have placed this submission on hold. Please check with Kraang and Willem H. The prior notes have "Stated 1st printing of 1968 Ballantine ed." If that is correct (as opposed to being a reference to the "First Edition: January 1968") and yours does not, then you have a reprint. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:41, 9 January 2022 (EST)

This edit can be approved. The statement in the notes is incorrect, and should be "First Edition: January 1968". Glenn, thanks for spotting this. --Willem 14:40, 9 January 2022 (EST)
Approved, thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 15:24, 9 January 2022 (EST)

Madness in Solidar

I have replaced the Amazon image with a scan in this pub. ../Doug H 14:21, 14 January 2022 (EST)

Asimov / Fantastic Voyage II: Destination Brain

I am editing and PVing Fantastic Voyage II: Destination Brain and will add notes and cover. No changes or deletions to anything you have entered. Teallach 17:33, 22 January 2022 (EST)

The Runelords

Would you mind checking your copy of this to see if the title page shows "The Runelords: The Sum of All Men" instead of just "The Runelords". If it does, please change the title to "The Runelords: The Sum of All Men". Thanks! Phil 21:51, 27 January 2022 (EST)

Sorry to nag, but all of the other pubs have "The Runelords: The Sum of All Men" as their title. I see you changed the title to just "The Sum of All Men" likely thinking that "The Runelords: is a series name and shouldn't be included. Been there; tried that. If you look at this thread on my Talk page, you can see how I ended up making the change to "The Runelords: The Sum of All Men". Thanks. Phil 07:01, 31 January 2022 (EST)
The discussion there doesn't really seem to explain why the rules shouldn't be followed. Perhaps in all the Deleted sections. But there is some value to consistently not following rules. I'll submit an edit, rather than dive down the rabbit hole. --GlennMcG 15:10, 31 January 2022 (EST)


Added the cover artist to the Alan Dean Foster publication and updated Note to indicate source (German edition). ../Doug H 10:50, 29 January 2022 (EST)

Written in Time

For Written in Time, do you mind if I add the title for the "Afterword" on pages 643-644 before I add notes and PV? Phil 14:29, 30 January 2022 (EST)

No problem. --GlennMcG 22:41, 30 January 2022 (EST)

Updating Amazon images

Per this Community Portal discussion: I've updated the images for The Last Starfighter, The Naked God: Flight (poor image, can you do better?), Children of the Serpent Gate. ../Doug H 23:06, 31 January 2022 (EST)

I don't see updates for the images for these books. Are the edits still pending? --GlennMcG 14:31, 1 February 2022 (EST)
The first was accepted about 7 minutes after you posted your message. ../Doug H 08:06, 3 February 2022 (EST)
Odd, I couldn't see them for few days, even with forcing reloads. --GlennMcG 15:07, 3 February 2022 (EST)
I've uploaded images for 1 and 3 (full bantam logo). No joy on #2. I have a damaged cover, and this type of metallic ink is just impossible to scan well. --GlennMcG 02:04, 3 February 2022 (EST)
I got my light box out and tried a natural light photo. Not perfect, but better. --GlennMcG 15:44, 4 February 2022 (EST)

"The Weapon Shop" vs. "The Weapons Shop" by A. E. van Vogt


You are listed as the most recent Primary Verifier for the 1946 edition of Healy & McComas's "Adventures in Time and Space", a great anthology, and one that helped introduce me to a lot of great SF from that era. (

As far as I can tell, the 1946 edition had the first reprint of "The Weapon Shop" by A. E. van Vogt (originally in Astounding, December 1942,

ISFDB notes that the 1946 edition had the story as "The Weapons Shop", a variant on the original published title.

I am curious about whether anything is known about this change in title, and would also like to confirm that the 1946 Healy & McComas is the first place the new title showed up.

I have done a bit of searching online on this question, but I have not yet found a definitive answer on which title van Vogt preferred. Both titles have been used throughout it's extensive reprint history.

I checked, and I have the 1957 edition. That definitely shows the new title, "The Weapons Shop".

I would appreciate it if you could check your 1946 copy and tell me what title for this showed up in the 1946 TOC, on the story in the body of the book, and also in the copyrights/acknowledgements and anywhere else.

Thanks. Dave888 11:51, 1 February 2022 (EST)

"The Weapons Shop" is used in acknowledgements, TOC, and story title page in my 1946 copy. --GlennMcG 14:38, 1 February 2022 (EST)
Thanks for that information. So far as I can tell, this was the first appearance of that version of the title.Dave888 16:07, 1 February 2022 (EST)

Robots and Empire - Amazon Image

I have replaced the unstable Amazon image for Robots and Empire with a scan of my copy. Teallach 16:03, 1 February 2022 (EST)


I added month to this,, based on note in this, I also added month to this,, based on note in this, --Username 10:47, 2 February 2022 (EST)

Irons in the Fire

For Irons in the Fire: Would you mind if I add the titles for the maps on page 10-11 and the essay on page 617 before I PV? Thanks! Phil 07:24, 3 February 2022 (EST)

Fine. --GlennMcG 00:28, 4 February 2022 (EST)

King Maker

Hi Glenn - I'm replacing the Amazon image for Broaddus' King Maker. The Amazon image had the Braunbeck blurb on the left side of the cover. Please let me know if your copy disagrees and I can put it back and split the publications. I realize that I've only got a transient verification, but I'm going through the boxes of books to be donated or sold and this was one that I still had. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:16, 4 February 2022 (EST)

Your image matches my cover. I've also uploaded my scan which seems to match the color values of my copy better, mostly so you can check and see if it's a scan issue, or there is that much variability in print quality. I've already reverted to your image, but I'm curious what you think. --GlennMcG 15:27, 4 February 2022 (EST)
And now that's actually they're on the isfdb site, they look less different than I thought earlier. --GlennMcG 15:31, 4 February 2022 (EST)
It doesn't really matter to me which scan we use, but I've gone ahead and deleted the two older ones. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:43, 4 February 2022 (EST)

The Jade Warrior

Please see this submission which I'm holding. While it matches the cover, since you have primary verified it and are active, please validate that it is correct. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:57, 4 February 2022 (EST)

The price is correct, although I would have preferred the note addition to be added to the html list. Price is also on the spine. --GlennMcG 19:23, 4 February 2022 (EST)
I approved the edit and fixed the formatting. The note isn't really required. I will leave it to you if you want to remove or add info about spine. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:55, 5 February 2022 (EST)

Whenever I enter info for someone else's record that's missing the price I add a note about where it is because certain moderators used to whine whenever I'd add something and not say exactly where it was in the book. Whenever I enter a new record for a book I don't usually specify. I used to mimic that bullet point style until I realized it's just a waste of space and just enter notes now without the dots. Also, I'm curious why the price for this book wasn't entered in the first place; usually this happens because it's too small/scratchy and can't be read until I manage to decipher it, but in this case it's big and clear. --Username 09:42, 5 February 2022 (EST)

There is a difference when working from the book itself and when working from secondary sources, pictures, scans, etc. For the latter, you need to specify the source. In this particular case, the data is from the book, but you don't have the book. You could have put the information in the moderator note instead of the pub note. That would have let the approving moderator & the verifier know why you were editing a verified record. As for the formatting, it makes a much cleaner and easier to read record when all the notes use the same format. -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:35, 5 February 2022 (EST)
I didn't notice the price was missing when I added the cover image. --GlennMcG 16:02, 5 February 2022 (EST)

Beyond Eden

Would this be enough to edit the publication date to the more precise: 1955-04-21?
Review copy note found inside pb edition: [11]
It mentions both the pb and the hc edition. --Spacecow 07:17, 12 February 2022 (EST)

Seem fine, as long as the source is noted. --GlennMcG 21:05, 13 February 2022 (EST)

The Pharaoh Contract

Would you mind looking at your copy of The Pharaoh Contract and verifying that you also have the number line: 0 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 and the Canadian price C$5.50? I want to add those notes. Thanks! Phil 08:18, 13 February 2022 (EST)

I have "RAD 0 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1". C$ ok. --GlennMcG 21:01, 13 February 2022 (EST)

The Hidden Queen & Changer of Days

For The Hidden Queen, I'd like to make the following changes before doing a PV:
Change page count to [8]+389
Add title for the map on page [8]
Add title for the Glossary on page 379

For Changer of Days, I'd like to make the following changes before doing a PV:
Add title for the map on page [vi]
Add title for the Glossary on page 326

Thanks! Phil 09:49, 13 February 2022 (EST)

Fine. --GlennMcG 21:00, 13 February 2022 (EST)


For Fane, would you object if I added the following before I PV?
Change page count to [8]+311
Add "First Timescape Books printing August, 1981" and the printer's key
Add essay title "Racial/Political Groupings on the Planet Fane" for page [7]
Thanks! Phil 10:04, 13 February 2022 (EST)

Go ahead. --GlennMcG 20:58, 13 February 2022 (EST)

Split Infinity and Out of Phaze

For Split Infinity: Do you mind if I change the page count to [8]+356 and add the missing maps title before I PV?

For Out of Phaze: Do you mind if I change the page count to [10]+309 before I add notes and PV?

Thanks! Phil 15:08, 15 February 2022 (EST)

No problem. --Glenn 16:39, 15 February 2022 (EST)

The Hobbit, or There and Back Again

Hello Glenn,

Can you check this one. Either you have a later printing (so you cannot use the 0997 from the dustjacket for the date) or it cannot have the ISBN13 printed and we need the ISBN10 instead - this is about a decade too early for ISBN13. Thanks! Annie 18:31, 15 February 2022 (EST)

Missed that during the clone. I've submitted an edit with that change, and the cover image I wrangled together. The cover image I did a few days ago, but my normal process got muddled waiting for input. Metallic foil is such a joy do deal with, much less stitching multiple scans together for the complete image. --Glenn 18:46, 15 February 2022 (EST)
Approved. And yeah - metallic foil looks nice... until you try to scan it. Thanks for fixing it! Annie 19:03, 15 February 2022 (EST)

Pandora's Legions

For Pandora's Legions, do you mind if I add the notes "First printing: February 2002" and "Cover art by Patrick Turner"? Thanks! Phil 07:22, 16 February 2022 (EST)

Sounds good. I'd also add 'no number line' as well. --Glenn 13:32, 16 February 2022 (EST)

Twilight's Kingdoms

For Twilight's Kingdoms, do you mind if I:
Add maps title.
Add "First printing, November 1987" and no number line comment.
Change page count to [8]+376
Thanks! Phil 11:48, 17 February 2022 (EST)

No problem with this type of edit. --Glenn 14:33, 17 February 2022 (EST)

A Cold Wind from Orion

For A Cold Wind from Orion, do you mind if I add notes "First Edition: September 1980", No printer's key., and "Cover art by Atila Hega"? Thanks. Phil 12:41, 17 February 2022 (EST)

Go ahead. --Glenn 14:34, 17 February 2022 (EST)

The Cabal

I added cover art credit to The Cabal is an example Susan O'Fearna 22:30, 17 February 2022 (EST)

Project: Maldon

For Project: Maldon, is it OK for me to add the following notes before I PV?
"First printing, June 1997"
No printer's key.
"Cover art by Garry Ruddell" on the copyright page.
C$7.99 in Canada.
Thanks! Phil 07:02, 19 February 2022 (EST)

No problem. --Glenn 00:31, 21 February 2022 (EST)


As there are no notes for Radix, I would like to add the following ones before I PV:
"Bantam Spectra edition / October 1985"
First printing per printer's key: O 0 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Cover artist credited in the "Acknowlegements" and per "Cover copyright © 1985 by Fred Marcellino" on the copyright page.
Map artist credited in the "Acknowlegements".
C$4.50 in Canada.

In addition:
Change page count to [12]+466
Add map title on page [12]
Add title "Appendix (Radix)" on page 449

Thanks! Phil 07:23, 19 February 2022 (EST)

In general, I have no problem with adding information. Clashes we can work out. --Glenn 00:28, 21 February 2022 (EST)

Skull Gate

For Skull Gate, do you mind if I add the map on page 7 and some notes before I PV? Phil 08:25, 19 February 2022 (EST)

Fine with me. --Glenn 14:20, 21 February 2022 (EST)

Canby's Legion

Based on the title page for Canby's Legion, I think the publisher should be "Aspect / Warner Books" not just "Warner Books" since Aspect is on the title page as well as Warner Books. What do you think? Phil 08:09, 20 February 2022 (EST)

I agree. --Glenn 14:20, 21 February 2022 (EST)

The Devil and Deep Space Re: Wrong cover artist created

Hi. I have a sub on hold that shows the wrong artist is created on the copyright page. See mod note[12]. If you follow the link to Matt Stawicki web page the image is signed below the knee. The cover image we have it is cut off above that point so it doesn't show. If there's no objection I'll change the credit with a note or you can. Thanks.Kraang 23:09, 20 February 2022 (EST)

Fine either way. --Glenn 00:28, 21 February 2022 (EST)
Cover artist update complete.Kraang 17:08, 21 February 2022 (EST)

Tomorrow and Tomorrow; I added month from copy of 1965 edition's copyright page. --Username 20:53, 21 February 2022 (EST)

Yaril’s Children

For Yaril’s Children, I want to make the following changes before I PV:
Change page count to [10]+277
Add map title on page [10].
Would that be OK? Phil 11:16, 23 February 2022 (EST)

Sure. When adding the meta [10], I'd make sure that it sequences (using the | syntax) before the story start. --Glenn 02:13, 24 February 2022 (EST)

Jim Butcher / Small Favor

I am PVing Small Favor. I will add pub notes and the Author's Note to the Contents. No changes to the existing information. I will add the Author's Note (where applicable) to all succeeding 1st ed hc's of the Dresden Files series. Teallach 11:50, 23 February 2022 (EST)

Shroud of Shadow

I added cover art credit to Shroud of Shadow by Gael Baudino Susan O'Fearna 00:54, 25 February 2022 (EST)

The Children of Anthi and The Omcri Matrix

Would you please look at the changes I'm proposing with these submissions for The Children of Anthi and The Omcri Matrix. In particular, please see if your copy shows a "Stated 1st printing" line on the copyright page of each one. My copies do not. Thanks! Phil 17:33, 25 February 2022 (EST) Ping Phil 14:05, 27 February 2022 (EST)

I'd say "Printing not stated, no number line, assumed first printing" for each, and change their publishers to "Ace Science Fiction Books". --Glenn 22:48, 27 February 2022 (EST)

Jim Butcher / Brief Cases

I am PVing Brief Cases. Will add Canadian price. Teallach 18:48, 25 February 2022 (EST)

Link to: Series Number of Dresden Files short fiction

Incidentally, while I'm here, you might be interested in this topic: Series Number of Dresden Files short fiction. Teallach 18:48, 25 February 2022 (EST)

The Girl from the Emeraline Island

Does your copy of The Girl from the Emeraline Island show "First Edition: May 1984" and no number line on the copyright page? I want to replace the "1st printing" note with those notes, plus add the map title on page [9] and change the page count to [10]+274 before I PV. Would that be OK? Phil 08:49, 26 February 2022 (EST)

I agree. I've taken to using something like: "Printing not stated, no number line, assumed first printing". --Glenn 16:03, 26 February 2022 (EST)

Boyer book changes

For The Sword and the Satchel, if it's OK with you I'd like to replace "1st printing" with "First Edition: May 1980" and "No printer's key or printing statement so first printing assumed". I'd also like to change the page count to [6]+312.

Sure. While checking, I decided to refresh the cover image with a better scan. --Glenn 14:24, 1 March 2022 (EST)

For The Thrall and the Dragon's Heart, if it's OK with you I'd like to replace "Stated 1st printing" with "First Edition: September 1982" and "No printer's key or printing statement so first printing assumed". I'd also like to change the page count to [8]+294.
Thanks! Phil 07:31, 28 February 2022 (EST)

Sure. --Glenn 14:24, 1 March 2022 (EST)

Sword of Chaos

Would you please look at your copy of Sword of Chaos and see if the title page actually reads "Sword of Chaos and Other Stories"? My first edition/first printing has that. Thanks! Phil 08:51, 1 March 2022 (EST)

Subtitle present. --Glenn 14:15, 1 March 2022 (EST)

Patricia Bray changes

For Devlin's Honor would you mind if I change the page count to [8]+390+[18] and add the map title on page [7]?

For Devlin's Justice would you mind if I change the page count to [10]+388 and add the map title on page [9]?

For The First Betrayal would you mind if I change the page count to [8]+342+[18] and add the map title on page [7]?

Thanks! Phil 11:21, 2 March 2022 (EST)

Sure. --Glenn 16:34, 2 March 2022 (EST)

Marie Brennan titles

For Doppelganger, would you mind if I change the page count to [10]+422 and add the map on page [9]?

For Warrior and Witch, would you mind if I change the page count to [8]+448 and add the map on page [7]?

Thanks! Phil 08:49, 3 March 2022 (EST)

That's fine. --Glenn 14:20, 3 March 2022 (EST)

Brokedown Palace

For Brokedown Palace, do you mind if I add "Ace Fantasy edition/January 1986" and "No printer's key" notes to this pub before I PV? Thanks! Phil 18:08, 5 March 2022 (EST)

Sure. I'd also change the publisher to "Ace Fantasy Books". --Glenn 18:43, 5 March 2022 (EST)

The Serpent and the Rose

For The Serpent and the Rose, would you mind if I add the map on [6] and change the page count to [6]+296? I'll also need to change the cover artist to just Donato then variant. Phil 06:52, 6 March 2022 (EST)

Sure. I'd also change the publisher to 'Tor Fantasy'. --Glenn 15:08, 7 March 2022 (EST)

The Empire Stone

For The Empire Stone, would you mind if I add the map on page [8] and change the page count to [10]+413? I'll also replace the Amazon cover and add notes. Phil 08:01, 7 March 2022 (EST)

Ok. --Glenn 15:07, 7 March 2022 (EST)

Master of Hawks

For Master of Hawks, do you mind if I add "First printing—July 1979" and "No printer's key" notes? 08:53, 8 March 2022 (EST)

Ok. --Glenn 16:21, 9 March 2022 (EST)

Furies of Calderon

For Furies of Calderon do you mind if I change the page count to 594 and add the excerpt title on page 592? Phil 09:02, 8 March 2022 (EST)

My copy has 504 pages, and no excerpt. --Glenn 16:23, 9 March 2022 (EST)
I mistyped. Mine has 504 with the "Academ's Fury" excerpt on pages 503-504. What's on your pages 503-504? Phil 16:32, 9 March 2022 (EST)
Somehow the excerptness was invisible. Mine matches your suggestion (with the page # change). --Glenn 16:47, 9 March 2022 (EST)

Figures of Earth

Would you please look at your copy of Figures of Earth and see if the title of the essay on page xxv is actually "A Foreword"? Does page xxiii show "A Foreword" with a Latin quote and a dedication to Sinclair Lewis instead of the title "A Preface" as shown in the current pub record? That's how my copy reads. I believe the same title problem likely exists in the unPVed Canadian pub that shares the same catalog ID. I propose to edit the "Preface" title record used only by those two pubs and then merge it with the correct title sic.

My copy has "A Forward" with the Latin quote.
Page xxiii has "A Foreword" over "Amoto quaeramus seria ludo" over "To" over "Sinclair Lewis". Page xxv has simply "A Foreward" and that's what I would replace. Sorry for the confusion and my typing. Rtrace matches this and suggests that I do an advanced search merge rather than change the title record. Phil 16:44, 9 March 2022 (EST)
Sure. --Glenn 16:49, 9 March 2022 (EST)

I also want to add notes "First U.S. Printing: November, 1969", "No printer's key.", and "Ballentine Books edition printed from the Storisende Edition". Then I'll PV. What do you think? Phil 12:14, 8 March 2022 (EST)

Printing change fine. Ballentine should be Ballantine.
PV ok. --Glenn 16:32, 9 March 2022 (EST)

Domnei / The Music from Behind the Moon

For Domnei / The Music from Behind the Moon do you mind if I replace "Stated first printing" with "First Printing: March, 1972" and "No printer's key"? Phil 12:27, 8 March 2022 (EST)

Sounds good. --Glenn 16:33, 9 March 2022 (EST)


For Zoboa, would you mind if I change the page count to [8]+430 and add the title for the unsigned maps on pages [6]-[8] before I PV? Phil 07:42, 9 March 2022 (EST)

Ok. I'd consider changing the publisher to "Baen Science Fiction Books" per the title page. --Glenn 16:34, 9 March 2022 (EST)

Exit Earth

For Exit Earth, would you mind if I replace the note "First printing" with notes "First printing, April 1987" and "No printer's key" before I PV? Phil 08:24, 9 March 2022 (EST)

Printing change ok. Publisher -> "Baen Books". --Glenn 16:39, 9 March 2022 (EST)


For Saturnalia, would you mind if I replaced "Stated 1st printing." with "First printing, January 1986" and "No printer's key."? I'll also replace the flagged Amazon image with a scanned one. Thanks! Phil 10:33, 10 March 2022 (EST)

Fine with me. --Glenn 04:38, 11 March 2022 (EST)

Trudi Canavan titles

For The Magicians' Guild, do you mind if I change the page count to [10]+370 and add titles for the maps on [8], "Lord Dannyl's Guide to Slum Slang (The Magicians’ Guild)" on pg 366, and "Glossary (The Magicians’ Guild)" on pg 368?

For The Novice, do you mind if I change the page count to [10]+465 and add titles for the maps on [8], "Lord Dannyl's Guide to Slum Slang (The Novice)" on pg 461, and "Glossary (The Novice)" on pg 463?

For The High Lord, do you mind if I change the page count to [10]+531 and add titles for the maps on [8], "Lord Dannyl's Guide to Slum Slang (The High Lord)" on pg 527, and "Glossary (The High Lord)" on pg 529?

For Priestess of the White, do you mind if I change the page count to [10]+598 and add titles for the map on [8], "Glossary (Priestess of the White)" on pg 590, and "Last of the Wilds (excerpt)" on pg 593?

Thanks! Phil 12:54, 10 March 2022 (EST)

Sure. Note that I've submitted edits for cover updates for all of these. --Glenn 05:02, 11 March 2022 (EST)

The Dark Lord of Pengersick

For The Dark Lord of Pengersick, do you mind if I change the page count to [4]+169, add the map title on page [2], add the title "Glossary of People, Places, and Things (The Dark Lord of Pengersick) on page 169, and change the publisher to Ace Fantasy Books? Thanks! Phil 12:29, 12 March 2022 (EST)

That's fine. --Glenn 16:00, 12 March 2022 (EST)

Down to a Sunless Sea

For Down to a Sunless Sea, would you mind if I add the title "Author's Note (Down to a Sunless Sea)" on page 173? Thanks! Phil 07:50, 13 March 2022 (EDT)

Ok. --Glenn 01:25, 14 March 2022 (EDT)

Exiles at the Well of Souls

For Exiles at the Well of Souls, do you mind if I change the page count to xii+337, add title "About Time ..." on pg [xii], and import missing titles:
Detail of Northern Hemisphere (map) (Exiles at the Well of Souls) on pg ix
Section of Southern Hemisphere (map) (Exiles at the Well of Souls) on pg x
Appendix: Races Referred to in Exiles at the Well of Souls on pg 331
About the Author (Exiles at the Well of Souls) on pg 337
Thanks! Phil 07:52, 15 March 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 02:50, 16 March 2022 (EDT)

Quest for the Well of Souls

For Quest for the Well of Souls, would you mind if I change the page count to xii+302+[1], add title "About the Author (Quest for the Well of Souls) on page [303], and import the following missing titles?
The Wars of the Well, Part II (Quest for the Well of Souls) on pg ix
Section of Southern Hemisphere (map) (Quest for the Well of Souls) on pg x
Detail of Northern Hemisphere (map) (Quest for the Well of Souls) on pg xii
Appendix I: Races of the Southern Hemisphere (Quest for the Well of Souls) on pg 293
Appendix II: Races of the Northern Hemisphere (Quest for the Well of Souls) on pg 300
Thanks! Phil 08:13, 15 March 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 02:50, 16 March 2022 (EDT)

The Return of Nathan Brazil

For The Return of Nathan Brazil, do you mind if I change the page count to ix+289+[2], add title "About the Author (The Return of Nathan Brazil)" on page [291], and add missing title:
Section of Southern Hemisphere (map) (The Return of Nathan Brazil) on page viii
Thanks! Phil 08:45, 18 March 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 02:48, 19 March 2022 (EDT)

Twilight at the Well of Souls

For Twilight at the Well of Souls: The Legacy of Nathan Brazil, do you mind if I change the page count to x+304+[1] and import missing title:
Section of Southern Hemisphere (map) (The Return of Nathan Brazil) on page viii
Thanks! Phil 08:54, 18 March 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 02:49, 19 March 2022 (EDT)

Jack Chalker: Four Lords of the Diamond

In the Four Lords of the Diamond series, I would like to make the following changes:

For Lilith: A Snake in the Grass, change the page count to vi+248 and import the uncredited interior art title The Warden Diamond on page [vi].

For Cerberus: A Wolf in the Fold, change the page count to [8]+243 and import the uncredited interior art title The Warden Diamond on page [viii].

For Charon: A Dragon at the Gate, change the page count to [8]+289 and import the uncredited interior art title The Warden Diamond on page [viii].

Would that be OK? Thanks! Phil 12:33, 18 March 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 02:50, 19 March 2022 (EDT)

War of the Maelstrom

For War of the Maelstrom, do you mind if I change the page count to viii+360 and add title "Prefatory Note (War of the Maelstrom)" on page vii? Thanks! Phil 08:50, 19 March 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 01:11, 20 March 2022 (EDT)

Kelly Country

For Kelly Country, do you mind if I add title "Afterword to U.S. Edition" on page 347 and change "1st printing" to "First printing per printer's key: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9" plus add "First DAW Printing, August 1985"? Phil 08:19, 20 March 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 19:19, 22 March 2022 (EDT)

Red Moon and Black Mountain

Would you look at this multi-part change proposal here on Rtrace's talk page and see if you have any objections? Thanks! Phil 09:36, 20 March 2022 (EDT)

I'm ok with the final results. --Glenn 19:19, 22 March 2022 (EDT)

The Blue Hawk

For The Blue Hawk, would you mind if I replace the inaccurate note "Stated 1st printing" with notes "First Ballantine Books Edition: August 1977" and "No printer's key or printing statement."? Thanks! Phil 11:19, 22 March 2022 (EDT)

Sounds good. --Glenn 19:27, 22 March 2022 (EDT)

Prison Planet

For Prison Planet, would you mind if I change "Stated 1st printing, full number line" to two notes: "Ace edition/March 1989" and "First printing by full number line."? Thanks! Phil 10:08, 24 March 2022 (EDT)

Fine with me. --Glenn 17:10, 24 March 2022 (EDT)

Six of Swords

For Six of Swords, would you mind if I change the page count to [8]+276 and import the map title on page [7]? I'll also add a scanned cover and a couple of other notes. Thanks! Phil 10:21, 25 March 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 15:13, 25 March 2022 (EDT)

Keepers of Edanvant

For Keepers of Edanvant, I'd like to make the following changes before PVing:
1. Change page count to [6]+346
2. Change the title for the map from "Keepers of Edanvant (frontispiece)" to "Keepers of Edanvant (map)". It's definitely not a frontispiece.
3. Change the map page from bp to [6]
4. Add note "Both the title page and the cover show "Sword & Circlet 1" but this is the third book in the Sword & Circlet series."
5. Add notes for the cover artist and map artist.
Thanks!! Phil 08:39, 26 March 2022 (EDT)

I know I've been sending you a lot and I really appreciate your quick response but did you see this post and the next two as well? Phil 19:02, 30 March 2022 (EDT)

Ok with changes. I'll add a better cover scan. --Glenn 17:14, 4 April 2022 (EDT)

Semper Mars

For Semper Mars, would you mind if I changed the page count to [6]+376 and add the uncredited map on page [6]? Thanks! Phil 08:52, 26 March 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 17:23, 4 April 2022 (EDT)

Warlord of Ghandor

For Warlord of Ghandor, would you mind if I:
1. Add a title for the frontispiece art on pg [2]
2. Change "First Printing" to "FIRST PRINTING, AUGUST 1977" and "First printing per printer's key: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9"
Thanks! Phil 09:25, 26 March 2022 (EDT)

Sure. Just uploaded a new cover scan that's a bit better. --Glenn 17:28, 4 April 2022 (EDT)

The Spellkey Trilogy

For The Spellkey Trilogy, would you mind if I change the page count to [6]+630 and add title "Author's Note (The Spellkey Trilogy)" on page [5]? Thanks! Phil 12:45, 26 March 2022 (EDT)

Ok. --Glenn 20:23, 26 March 2022 (EDT)

Paula E. Downing titles

For Rinn's Star, would you mind if I replace "Stated 1st edition." with "First Edition: December 1990" and "No printer's key or printing statement."

For Flare Star, would you mind if I replace "Stated 1st printing" with "First Edition: April 1992" and "No printer's key or printing statement.", change the page count to [6]+249, and add the map on page [5]?
Thanks! Phil 16:35, 26 March 2022 (EDT)

Ok for both. --Glenn 20:24, 26 March 2022 (EDT)

Vettius and His Friends

For Vettius and His Friends, would you mind if I change the page count to 304+[8] and add missing title "Men Hunting Things (excerpt)" on page [309] before I PV? Thanks! Phil 09:39, 28 March 2022 (EDT)

No problem in general, but note that that excerpt has been labeled It's a Lot Like War (Men Hunting Things excerpt) in other Baen publications. --Glenn 16:18, 29 March 2022 (EDT)
Oh, and I've submitted an edit that improves the cover image. --Glenn 16:19, 29 March 2022 (EDT)

The Year of the Ransom in Time Patrol

Hi! Depending on the outcome of this thread it seems that this fiction text is really a novella. So, don't be surprised that the OMNIBUS may have to be turned into a COLLECTION. Though I guess that ought to be done anyway? (Typically an OMNIBUS should have at least two booklength content titles, as was communicated quite recently). Christian Stonecreek 07:35, 30 March 2022 (EDT)

Dave Duncan titles

For Magic Casement, would you mind if I change the page count to [12]+307 and add title "Magic Casement (maps)" by uncredited on page [11]?

For Faery Lands Forlorn, would you mind if I change the page count to [12]+335 and add title "Faery Lands Forlorn (maps)" by uncredited on page [6]?

For Shadow, would you mind if I:
1. Replace "Stated 1st printing" with "First Edition: November 1987" and "No printer's key or printing statement"
2. Change the page count to [10]+276
3. Add title "Shadow (map)" on page [9]
4. Add title "Glossary (Shadow)" on page 273

Thanks! Phil 11:19, 30 March 2022 (EDT)

All ok with me. --Glenn 18:46, 30 March 2022 (EDT)

Queen of Sorcery

For Queen of Sorcery, would you mind if I change the page count to [8]+327 and import the missing map title on page [6]? I'll also add a scanned cover and several notes. Thanks! Phil 06:45, 2 April 2022 (EDT)

Ok. --Glenn 03:20, 4 April 2022 (EDT)

The Warslayer

I propose making multiple changes for The Warslayer:
1. Title
. 1a. Change the pub title to "The Warslayer: The Incredibly True Adventures of Vixen the Slayer, The Beginning" to match the the title page and the WorldCat entries. The existing short form doesn't comply with the instructions in this help.
. 1b. Remove the note starting with "Subtitled".
. 1c. Unmerge the 'long' pub title from the existing title then make the existing title a variant of the 'long' title since it is the earliest pub.


2. Change page count to 312 to match the book.


3. Essay
. 3a. Remove essay title "God’s Teeth! The Making of a Cult Phenomenon" and delete the associated title record. I don't think this is an actual piece written by Greg Cox since there is no copyright for it on the copyright page and it doesn't show in his bibliography on his website.
. 3b. Add note "Pages 1-5 of the book are a fictional essay titled "God’s Teeth! The Making of a Cult Phenomenon" purportedly by Greg Cox."

I just consider it part of the book. The page says "by Greg Cox", and I don't have a good reason to not believe it.

4. Replace the Amazon cover with this scanned cover that I already uploaded.


5. Add notes:
"The title on the cover is "The Warslayer" [over] "An Incredibly True Adventure of Vixen the Slayer".
"Pages 288-312 are a fictional episode guide titled "VIXEN THE SLAYER: The Episode Guide (Season One)"".


What do you think? Phil 07:46, 2 April 2022 (EDT)

As above. --Glenn 03:19, 4 April 2022 (EDT)

The Sword of Shannara

Hi Glenn -

I'm going to add individual interior art items for each of the illustrations for Terry Brooks' The Sword of Shannara. I'm going to do individual records as some of them have been reprinted and I'd like to make the variant relationships. I'll also try to find a cover scan. I'd scan mine, but there are flaws. Please let me know if you have any objections to this. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:19, 2 April 2022 (EDT)

My cover isn't any better. --Glenn 03:14, 4 April 2022 (EDT)

The Year of the Warrior

Hi Glen, you still need an entry in the content field of the title record here. In this case, 2N. Here is the relevant help page. John Scifibones 19:45, 2 April 2022 (EDT)

I think I'll add the series name given on the title pages of the individual novels in The Year of the Warrior. (Saga of Erling Skjalgsson) and mark the contents "1,2". --Glenn 03:10, 4 April 2022 (EDT)

Eldrie the Healer

For Eldrie the Healer, would you mind if I change the page count to [10]+237 and add map title "Eldrie the Healer (map)" by uncredited on page [7]? Thanks! Phil 08:11, 3 April 2022 (EDT)

Ok. --Glenn 03:07, 4 April 2022 (EDT)

Missing responses

I suspect you missed seeing these three posts from March 26. I'd rather have your approvals/comments than go through the no response Mod Board procedure.

Keepers of Edanvant
Semper Mars
Warlord of Ghandor

Phil 08:54, 4 April 2022 (EDT)

You're right, I missed them. Answered at original entries. --Glenn 17:29, 4 April 2022 (EDT)
Thanks! Phil 07:16, 5 April 2022 (EDT)

The Art of the Sword

For The Art of the Sword, would you mind if I:
Change the page count to [10]+262
Add essay title "Cast of Characters (The Art of the Sword)" on page [6]
Add map "The Art of the Sword (map) on page [8]
I'll also add some notes and replace the Amazon cover with a scanned cover.
Thanks! Phil 09:27, 5 April 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 16:07, 5 April 2022 (EDT)

Mountains & Madness

I'm confused by the inclusion of E. J. Cherhavy as a co-author of Mountains & Madness. He's not referenced on the title page or the copyright page, in the LCCN record, or the WorldCat record. The only reference I could find was in Locus1. I think his name should be removed from this pub record and a note added about the bad Locus1 reference. What so you think? Phil 12:03, 5 April 2022 (EDT)

My guess is that the 2nd author is from Mayfair Games. No idea how Locus figured it out. --Glenn 15:59, 5 April 2022 (EDT)
And I've uploaded a better cover while checking it out. (edit submitted) --Glenn 16:06, 5 April 2022 (EDT)
So should I remove it since it's not on title page and add the note? Or do we need to get a moderator opinion first? I have a couple of other notes to add as well as the LCCN and WorldCat IDs. Phil 18:12, 5 April 2022 (EDT)
Perhaps a moderator is appropriate. I'd guess that it could end up with this entry as a variant of the two author one. --Glenn 01:18, 6 April 2022 (EDT)
I submitted this to the Help Desk here for guidance. Phil 07:30, 6 April 2022 (EDT)

A Lost Tale

For A Lost Tale, would you mind if I change the page count to x+206, and add the title for "Author's Note (A Lost Tale)" on page vii? Thanks! Phil 07:38, 6 April 2022 (EDT)

Seems like it should be 'ix+206' by the page rules. --Glenn 15:35, 7 April 2022 (EDT)
You are correct. OK otherwise? Phil 18:21, 7 April 2022 (EDT)
Sure. --Glenn 01:13, 8 April 2022 (EDT)

The People of the Mist

For The People of the Mist, would you mind if I replace "Stated 1st printing" with "First printing: December, 1973" and "No printer's key"? I also have a better scanned cover ready to upload. Thanks! Phil 11:38, 8 April 2022 (EDT)

Ok. --Glenn 14:46, 8 April 2022 (EDT)

The Wizard's Ward

For The Wizard's Ward, I'd like to change the pub date to 2005-07-12 as stated on and add a source note. There's no stated source for the existing date. What do you think? Phil 13:23, 10 April 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 23:27, 10 April 2022 (EDT)

Darwath novels

For The Time of the Dark, would you mind if I change the page count to [6]+263 and add the title "The Time of the Dark (map)" by Barbieri on page [6]?


For The Walls of Air, would you mind if I change the page count to [6]+297 and add the title "The Walls of Air (maps)" by uncredited on page [5]? I'll also add a scanned cover.

Sure. Might also add the map on page 3.

For The Armies of Daylight, would you mind if I change the page count to [6]+309 and add the title "The Armies of Daylight (map) by uncredited on page [5]? I'll also add a scanned cover.


Thanks! Phil 08:05, 11 April 2022 (EDT)

--Glenn 03:02, 12 April 2022 (EDT)

Songs of Muad'Dib

Glenn, any objections to me adding the contents to Songs of Muad'Dib? Since my source is The Locus Index, I would appreciate you checking for any discrepancies after I finish. I would also like to remove the note regarding the cover art, then credit it to 'Frederic Marvin'. Thanks, John Scifibones 19:06, 11 April 2022 (EDT)

Ok. --Glenn 02:34, 12 April 2022 (EDT)
Hopefully, there aren't too many title or page number differences. I still need to add original publication notes, but that will not trigger any more 'My Changed Primary Verifications' alerts. Thanks for you help. John Scifibones 11:02, 12 April 2022 (EDT)
Both the TOC and the titles on the Poem pages 7 & 8 are labeled "A Song of the New Ireland". The titles entered in the record are actually the respective first lines of each poem.
Page 31 is titled "Untitled". Title given is the first line.
Page 33 is titled "Untitled Haiku", etc
Page 34 is titled "Untitled Haiku (About Brian)" ...
Page 43 is titled "Untitled Haiku" ...
Page 44 is titled "Untitled Haiku" ...
Page 61 is titled "A Song of Muad'Dib"
Page 71 is titled "A Song of Muad'Dib"
Page 78 is titled "Katsuk's Prayer"
Page 109–111 is an essay titled "Bibliography/Notes".
--Glenn 00:26, 13 April 2022 (EDT)
I was hoping they would just use the first lines for the untitled works. The title on page 78 will have to stay "Katsuk's Prayer [1]". When content is repeated in a publication, it requires disambiguation and a variant due to software limitations. I'll make the necessary changes. John Scifibones 07:31, 13 April 2022 (EDT)
Let me know if my assumption re: Katsuk's Prayer is incorrect. If it is a different poem, with the same name, I need to break the variant and make a slight change to the note. Either way, the disambiguation is necessary. John Scifibones 09:47, 13 April 2022 (EDT)
In general, they did use a quoted version of the first line of the poems that were untitled.
The "Katskuk's Prayer on 39 starts "Raven, Raven, keep the edge on my hate.". The one on 78 begins with "O, Life Giver". I noted 78 above just to be complete, but knew it was to disambiguate.
--Glenn 15:32, 13 April 2022 (EDT)
Done! Always enjoy working with you. John Scifibones 16:08, 13 April 2022 (EDT)
Why the mix of square brackets and parenthesis for the disambiguation? --Glenn 16:41, 13 April 2022 (EDT)
I don't know why they used square brackets for the two titles on pages 7 & 8. I can comment on how untitled poetry is generally handled if you are interested John Scifibones 17:55, 13 April 2022 (EDT)

Greyfax Grimwald

For Greyfax Grimwald, would you mind if I import the title "Greyfax Grimwald (maps)" [13] for the maps that start on page 5? Thanks! Phil 08:27, 19 April 2022 (EDT)

Ok. --Glenn 21:12, 19 April 2022 (EDT)

Cat Scratch Fever

For Cat Scratch Fever, would you mind if I change the page count to 376+[2] and add the Author's Note on page [377]? I'll also replace the Amazon cover. Phil 10:47, 19 April 2022 (EDT)

Ok. --Glenn 21:10, 19 April 2022 (EDT)

Silver Moons, Black Steel

For Silver Moons, Black Steel, would it be OK to change the page count to 434+[6] and add titles "Author's Note" on page 430 and "Wolfwalker (excerpt)" on page [435]? Phil 11:20, 19 April 2022 (EDT)

Ok. --Glenn 21:11, 19 April 2022 (EDT)

Alternate Names in Interviews

Just a reminder, please use the canonical name in the interviewee field, even if the interview title uses an alternate name (there is no way to variant). The interview in your verified pub Brothers in Arms needs to be corrected. While you're there, the same alternate name Ben Weaver has a title which needs to be made a variant. Ignore this if you have already handled them. Thanks, John Scifibones 11:45, 19 April 2022 (EDT)

Edits submitted. --Glenn 21:08, 19 April 2022 (EDT)

The Gauntlet of Malice

For The Gauntlet of Malice, would you mind if I make the following changes:
1. Change page count to xv+336
2. Add title "Foreword (The Gauntlet of Malice)" on page vi which is a fictional in-world essay.
3. Add title "Cast of Characters (The Gauntlet of Malice)" on page xii
4. Add scanned cover [14]
5. Import title "The Gauntlet of Malice (map)" here on page [xiv]
Thanks! Phil 12:18, 19 April 2022 (EDT)

Ok. --Glenn 21:09, 19 April 2022 (EDT)

Spiral of Fire

For Spiral of Fire, would you mind if I change the page count to [10]+468 and add title "Spiral of Fire (map)" on page [6] and title "Cast of Characters (Spiral of Fire) on page [9]? I'll also add a scanned cover. Phil 07:06, 20 April 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 03:07, 22 April 2022 (EDT)

Stonehenge: Where Atlantis Died

For Stonehenge: Where Atlantis Died, would you mind if I:
1. import "Afterword (Stonehenge: Where Atlantis Died)" 1910796 on page 307
2. add "Selected Readings (Stonehenge: Where Atlantis Died)" by uncredited on page 345
Thanks! Phil 12:17, 21 April 2022 (EDT)


Seaborn cover artist

Hi. I changed "Timonthy" to "Timothy" in the cover artist credit in you verified Seaborn. If it wasn't a typo, let me know and I'll revert it (I only noticed because I was dealing with various Lantz credits). Thanks --MartyD 10:54, 23 April 2022 (EDT)

'Timothy' is correct per copyright page and back cover. I've submitted an edit adding some copyrights to the notes. --Glenn 14:33, 25 April 2022 (EDT)


For Fanuilh, would you mind if change the page count to [8]+259 and add the uncredited map title on page [6]? Phil 11:12, 3 May 2022 (EDT)

Ok. --Glenn 15:33, 4 May 2022 (EDT)

Heart of Light

Would you please look at your copy of Heart of Light and see if the excerpt on page [507] is actually for "Soul of Fire" like it is in my copy? Thanks! Phil 07:07, 5 May 2022 (EDT)

Yep... probably a copy-paste thinko. --Glenn 16:05, 5 May 2022 (EDT)

Heroing: or, How He Wound Down the World

For Heroing: or, How He Wound Down the World, would you mind if I change the page count to 346, change the publisher to Baen Books, add a "No printer's key" note, and add the essay title "Afterward" on page [346] with a misspelling note? Thanks! Phil 10:58, 5 May 2022 (EDT)

I'd change the page count to '345+[1]'. I'm less certain about the publisher change. The 'Baen Books' in a hexagon on the title page isn't present, which was the criteria that I used to change Baen to Baen Books. There was a discussion about how to partition somewhere on the help pages. Otherwise, ok. --Glenn 16:04, 5 May 2022 (EDT)
I can't find the Baen discussion so I'll leave it alone. I was basing my potential change on the copyright page since there was nothing on the title page. I agree about the page count but it took re-reading the how-to a couple of times to see why! Phil 07:08, 6 May 2022 (EDT)
Baen vs Baen Books publishers. John Scifibones 08:19, 6 May 2022 (EDT)

Pressure Man

Glenn, I approved the replacement of the unstable cover image in your verified pub. John Scifibones 17:02, 5 May 2022 (EDT)

Celestial Hit List

For Celestial Hit List, the spelling of the cover artist is "Vincent DiFate" on the copyright page but is "Vincent Di Fate" in the pub record. I just submitted changes to make the pub record match the copyright page value and will make the new cover title record a variant of the existing cover art title record. Let me know if this is a problem. Phil 11:57, 7 May 2022 (EDT)

Ian Irvine titles

For A Shadow on the Glass, would it be OK if I:
Change the page count to [14]+654+[1]
Change the map start page to [10]
Add essay title "Glossary of Characters, Names and Places (A Shadow on the Glass)" on page 642
Add essay title "Guide to Pronunciation" on page [655]

For The Tower on the Rift, would it be OK if I:
Add essay title "Glossary of Characters, Names and Places (The Tower on the Rift)" on page 643
Add essay title "Guide to Pronunciation (The Tower on the Rift)" on page [659]

Thanks! Phil 07:51, 8 May 2022 (EDT)

Sure. --Glenn 15:02, 9 May 2022 (EDT)

J. V. Jones titles

For The Baker's Boy, would you mind if I change the page count to [8]+552 and import the map title on page [8]?

For A Man Betrayed, would you mind if I change the page count to [6]+598 and add the map title "A Man Betrayed (map)" on page [6]?

For Master and Fool, would it be OK if I make the following changes?
1. Change the page count to [10]+645+16
2. Change the start page number for "The Barbed Coil (excerpt)" to 3 and add the note "The book ends on page 645. The page numbers restart from 1 for "The Barbed Coil" excerpt."
3. Add title "Master and Fool (map)" by uncredited on page [8]

Thanks! Phil 07:52, 12 May 2022 (EDT)

Since all the maps are the same, perhaps merging them down to "The Book of Words (map)". Otherwise, ok. --Glenn 15:43, 13 May 2022 (EDT)


Hi Glenn - can you have a look here and let us know if these are merge candidates? If not, can you add notes to the title records as why they shouldn't be merged? Thanks in advance, MagicUnk 14:35, 15 May 2022 (EDT)

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